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"Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
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evanakm 250 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

06-02-03, 01:45 AM (EST)
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"Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
Even though I am not happily looking forward to All-Star Survivor, my complaining isn't going to change things. So, I might as well sit back and be a good couch potato.

Before Mark Burnett makes a monstrosity of a season by putting on a bunch of DAWs who, although popular and well-liked by the public, would give new meaning to the mind-numbing boringness of Pagonging. People are already willing to follow their old tribes off the cliff like lemmings, imagine how hopeless it would be if they took a dive because they were part of the same cast five or six seasons ago.

This thread is about creating the best possible All-Star cast in terms of gameplay. Select the 16 people who would make the best game because they'd all play to win instead of playing for a good finish. PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR SOMEBODY JUST BECAUSE YOU LIKE THEM. Some of the more popular contestants may be good people, but they have the foul stench of Pagonging all over them. If Mark Burnett et al do in fact read these boards to find out who the fans want on ASS, then we may be the only hope for the Survivor franchise.

This means no Paschals or Rodgers who took dives in the name of integrity, no Kim Powerses or Elisabeths who turned down the alliance that would have saved them because they liked other people more, etc. etc. etc. Actually, I'll even go so far as to say that anyone who has ever said the I-word should be immediately eliminated from the running. I'm sure that the above people have huge fan bases, and they could learn from their mistakes and try out a new strategy in the future, but they had their chance. In sports, you don't send someone to the all star game becuase they're a nice guy or because they have good potential, you send them because they have shown their talent. There have been at least 16 people who have shown the play-to-win attitude, and these are the only people who should be considered for ASS.

Here is my list:

Richard - I still don't think he was that great of a player, but he certainly has the right attitude about the game.

Sue - She got a little hot-headed towards the end of her game, but for the first 33 days, she was every bit as cunning and conniving as Rich, I think in some ways better. She lost it at the end, but I don't think she'll make the same mistake twice.

Gervase - The only member of Pagong to recognize the necessity of alliances, unfortunately nobody was willing to go along with it. Definitely deserves another shot at it.

Tina - Without a doubt, the best player in S2, not even close in my eyes. I don't particularly like Tina's personality all that much, but what can I say? She just had to say "jump" and everyone else in the game, without exception, would say "how high?"

Jeff - The peanut butter thing was just plain stupid, as was counting his chickens before he got to the merge up 6-4, but he was the only person other than Tina on S2 who wasn't caterwauling about integrity every 5 seconds.

Brandon - Love him or hate him, and debate all you want about how smart his move was, you can't deny that he had the stones to go out in a blaze of glory while shooting for first instead of fizzling out in 5th or 6th place.

Kelly G - I can't stand her, but she had the same attitude that Brandon did. Kelly and Brandon may have had bad finishes, but they are 10 times better choices than the "I'll swear on my sons' names" squad.

Kathy - It needs no explanation as to why she should be an All Star.

Rob M - Some people, like Rob, are just not UTR people. He never had a chance after he lost the first 3 IC's. Put him in a position of power after the merge, and you got yourself some fun stuff.

John C - The opposite of Rob, he had too much power, being spoiled without a visit to TC until day 15. Plus, he was a guinea pig for the coconut challenge. Still, he played like an all star, and I say let him try again.

Shii Ann - Another guinea pig, but she didn't even get the honor of being screwed on a decent twist. Shii Ann is worth twice her weight in gold if MB wants to eliminate the possibility of Pagonging.

Brian - Best player ever.

Clay - Made a couple mistakes, but he played by far the best game out of all the second placers. Would have made a much less disgraceful winner than some actual winners I could name *cough*Jenna*cough*.

Rob C - He's going on All Star no matter what, so I don't need to say anything.

Matt - He only lost because he was clueless on day 1, which I think is a pretty weak reason for the jury to make a vote. Let's see what happens when he goes out there as a seasoned veteran.

Deena - The femenazi attitude has to go, but everyone has their flaws.

Yes, I realize that I don't have an even man to woman ratio, so sue me.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Who would make the best All-Sta... managerr 06-09-03 1
 RE: Who would make the best All-Sta... Survivorerist 06-09-03 2
   RE: Who would make the best All-Sta... L82LIFE 06-10-03 3
   RE: Who would make the best All-Sta... jsanb 06-27-03 4
 RE: Who would make the best All-Sta... JohnMc 06-27-03 5
 RE: Who would make the best All-Sta... Kokoro 07-11-03 6

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managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

06-09-03, 05:12 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
Here is mine. Mine is rated on how well I thought they played during their season--not how I would think they would do if given another chance. There are several players who I think would do a lot better if they had a 2nd chance, but I'm going by their performance during their season only:

1. Richard -- No one really know how good of a player Richard is, because he was playing a game with a bunch of idiots. (Game-wise) There was no need for him to pull any sort of advanced strategy to win his season because he was never really in any danger.

2. Gervase -- It was Gervase and Ramona that was Survivor's first alliance, not the Tagi 4. Gervase had the know how from day 1 as he, Joel, and Ramona came together, but they couldn't get a 4th or 5th because everyone else refused to align.

3. Tina -- One of the best players overall in terms of how she got everyone to like her while she was stabbing them in the back.

4. Colby -- There are a lot of ways to play Survivor--I firmly believe that you don't have to scheme and plot and backstab in order to do well. You have to give Colby a spot because of the sheer way he dominated all the challenges.

5. Ethan -- I didn't appreciate Ethan's gameplay during his season and I still think he's kind of lame, but I'd give him a spot based on his being the only UTR Player to actually win. UTR has been shown as an effective strategy to get you to the latter stages of the game--but it's difficult to win using this strategy because jurors tend to prefer winners who weren't dragged along. In this case, Ethan was dragged along and still won.

6. Lex -- I do think that Brandon, Kelly G, Teresa and maybe a few others were all strategically smarter than Lex. But strategy is only half of Survivor. Execution is the other. And despite making a comedy of errors, Lex got people to blindly follow his lead over and over. Some leaders have that natural charisma that make people want to follow them, and Lex has that.

7. Kathy -- I think Kathy is a great player because of her adaptability. She adapted to more situations than anyone in her season of Survivor and was shown to be always thinking. I think she could have beaten Neleh or Vee 6-1 if she had made the Final 2.

8. Neleh -- This spot was hard just because a lot of people who had great gameplay in this season, also had boneheaded moves. Neleh played the "sweet girl" role to the hilt, but at the same time she showed a willingness to make the one strategy decision that swung the game. (And convined Paschal to do it)

9. Brian -- Was he really that good, or did he make everyone look so bad? I'm unsure to this day.

10. Penny -- Yes, Penny. She was evil and she backstabbed everyone. She was doing whatever it took to get to the end. Yet--everyone in her alliance (except the outcast Shii Ann) loved her. It was so weird. I do think she made mistakes, but everyone on that season was so awful.

11. Rob -- Needs no explanation.

12. Jenna -- I think her game was overshadowed by Rob's as it should have been, but she was perhaps the most balanced player to ever play Survivor. She did well in challenges, made friends, knew what buttons to push, and when to cry and play the morality card. Like 95% of the Survivors, she made mistakes, but she did the two most important things: Win Challenges, Get people to like you. One good thing that Jenna (and Ethan) were able to do was to never put themselves as the "swing" position, where you are making a game-changing decision. Generally if you're in the majority alliance and other people come up to you with a counter-offer, it usually means that you *are* the outsider of your alliance. A good player (like Rob) will know which direction to "swing", but an equally good player knows to *embed* themselves in the winning alliance and then ride that out to the end. Jenna was on her way to doing that, but was undone when a better player made the right move. She still overcame it.

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Survivorerist 4103 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"

06-09-03, 05:59 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
My list...

First of all, I don't care what you have to say about these guys, because they must've done something right. The first six spots go to...

Richard (S1)
Tina (S2)
Ethan (S3)
Vecepia (S4)
Brian (S5)
Jenna (S6)

Now for the rest...

The COA Schemers

Jerri (S2) - Only real flaw was being an uber-beotch. Actually had a pretty good handle on the game.
Lex (S3) - Knew for the most part how to read other contestants.
Kelly (S3) - Very creative, very scheming, very bright.
Rob (S4) - There's no hiding from this guy, he'll go down kicking and screaming.
John (S4) - A mastermind who was corrupted by power.
Penny (S5) - A subtle manipulator turned COA, mainly by virtue of the rest of her cast.
Rob (S6) - A flat out schemer. Knew how to keep himself alive.

The UTR Schemers

Gervase (S1) - Got by on the charm card.
Teresa (S3) - Knew the fundamentals of the game and knew how to finesse it.
Neleh (S4) - Got herself underestimated by the rest of the tribe and took full advantage of it.

That's my 16, a perfect 8-8 gender split. I think I've got a good balance here.


(Another IceCat original )

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L82LIFE 5333 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

06-10-03, 11:38 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
That's a great list, Sir Erist. Perfect!


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jsanb 178 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

06-27-03, 01:22 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
That's a pretty damn good list and would like to add Greg and Sue from S1, maybe even Rudy. Who to take out from your list? Not sure.


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JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"

06-27-03, 02:09 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
Ok, here's my stab based on the players' ability to play the game and NOT for entertainment value

8 men
--------
Rich - S1
Colby - S2
Ethan - S3
Lex - S3
Sean - S4
John - S4
Brian - S5
Rob - S6

8 women
--------
Kelly - S1
Tina - S2
Teresa - S3
Vee - S4
Kathy - S4
Neleh - S4
Helen - S5
Jenna - S6

I'm not going to defend any one of them as being strong or weak in a certain area, although I could certainly point out their strengths. I did not intentionally include all of the champions, but I do think that they each had their own contributions in winning their game. I also did not always include the runner-up, as with Kim J, Clay, and Matt. Getting to #2 isn't an accomplishment if someone else got you there. I even included S4 John, even though he was a 9th place finisher. (I needed one more man, and in terms of game play, I believe he is the strongest of those, though #8 in my rankings of men.)

For some reason I do favor S4 above all seasons because there were so many good players that pulled out an A game.

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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

07-11-03, 02:11 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Who would make the best All-Star Game?"
LAST EDITED ON 07-11-03 AT 02:23 PM (EST)

Somewhat of a new plan: How about a game featuring people who screwed up during their edition? Would they change the way they played the game the second time around?

S1

1.) Gretchen

The biggie of this season. Would she be able to be "sneaky" and take part in a successful alliance?

2.) Kelly W.

She felt bad about her alliance the first time. She also had a bit of a "two-faced" strategy which contributed to her loss. Would she be more of a solo-flier the second time around? If she joined another group, would she remain trustworthy to the end?

3.) Ramona

This one is a stretch, I know, but I needed someone else from this season and her situation makes her the best candidate. She was the original lame duck and also viewed as lazy because of this. Would she be able to hold her own (and her lunch) if given another chance?

S2

4.) Kimmi

Would she be able to control her militant vegetarian side and her boistrous persona, or would they once again lead to her downfall?

5.) Jerri

Could she hold her tongue and be *gasp* humane to her fellow competitors? Has she realized that even if you do have the majority, treating others like crap is not the way to go?

6.) Kel

Okay, I don't like this pick either, but he has the next best case. He was the anti-social one. Would he try to warm up to his teammates and actually form the bonds needed to survive in a social environment, or would he once again make himself an easy target?

S3

7.) Kelly G.

She had a very unique situation in which she kept her cards close for too ~long~. I think she might be a lot less UTR given another chance.

8.) Silas

I'm making Silas the official representative of young Samburu. The only thing he really needs to learn is to get over himself. He was far too arrogant and obvious in his gameplay. Also of note is that he was the first to ever be screwed by the twist.

9.) Carl

Since he's more interesting than Frank and really was the leader of Older Samburu, he's their rep. Will he learn to get along with the younger members of his tribe or write them off in a stereotypical fashion (granted, speaking of his own teammates, he wasn't really stretching the truth too far)? Will he keep his mouth shut about his $$$?

S4

10.) Gabriel

Almost a junior Gretchen and in season ~4~, no less. Since he was booted surprisingly the first time, I'm thinking he would be more willing to commit to a group, even if he doesn't go in with a winning attitude. I wonder if he would try to actually win if given another turn? The good guy gone ruthless angle could be interesting....

11.) John C.

He wasn't a horrible player, he just needs to learn to shut up. Self confidence is great but arrogance is not. Hopefully this time he'd have realized why alliances are usually hidden. Also of note is his involvement in the first ever big power move seen on the show to that point.

12.) Peter

Another odd choice, but besides Neleh (who just missed my cut) he's the best one for the slot. The first time he came in swinging. He tried to take some control of the voting and got booted for his intrusion. As seen in the SC fanfiction, I think he'd be a lot more laid back and carefree this time, especially in the beginning phases of the game.

S5

13.) Helen

Another big one. She was far too trusting the first go around. She was also hesitant to do anything to change the game. I think she'd be a lot more flexible this time, but also wouldn't be as solid and trustworthy in any alliance that she may join.

14.) Shii Ann

Got screwed by the big new twist, but also played her cards way too early and showed them to too many people. She's already a good player choice due to her apparent flexability, and she might be even more devious and guarded during her second try.

15.) John R.

Fits perfectly with the theme. He, for one reason or another, rubbed his team the wrong way right from the beginning. Given another chance, he'd either change his behaviour and end up being more of a UTR player, or he'd actually try and fit in better and form early alliances to secure his position.

S6

16.) Christy

Tried to be too independant. Not that that's a bad thing but in this game you need to rely on other people. You need to trust them and work together with them. Her solo-flier attitude is the very thing that got her booted when she tried to find a situation to help herself without regards to the others in her group. Even if she doesn't change, at the very least she'd end up being more secretive and selective with her options....

17.) Matthew

Now that he "knows the game", will he actually do anything different? Will he try to be more of a "normal" person instead of insane-wacko-crazy guy? Will he play this time thinking that it's about how you play the game and not so much about your strength and integrity (because that's what it came down to for the Amazon jury)? It'd be interesting to see how Rob's protegé uses what he's learned from the master.

18.) Roger

Nearly everyone disliked him. Would he try to be a "nicer" person? Would his sexist/bigotted attitude show up again? Could he tone down his nasty arrogance a notch? Probably not but he's in my cast anyway.

Notes:

I would have loved to have included Lindsey but there just weren't enough female spots.

Brandon was in consideration, but I don't really feel he made the major error in S3. I feel that he was just ahead of his time as a player.

Neleh had pretty much the same situation as Matthew, right down to the final TC errors, although he might be more interesting to watch now that he "knows the game" so that's why she's not here.

Alex probably should be here since he had another unique screw up (Turned the game into a friendship club/Spent too much time thinking with the wrong head) but I don't really think his personality works well within the cast. Besides, it was either him or Roger, and Roger just fits in so well with my tribes (listed below).

* We'd finally see the "three teams" rumour in action, though God knows how that'll work out.

Team 1: Ramona, Jerri, Silas, Peter, Shii Ann, Matthew

I knew that one one of the teams, Jerri and Silas had to be together. She needs another crack at a cowboy, and this time, she'd probably be able to control him as well (for those who hadn't noticed, Silas isn't the brightest black hole in the sky).

Matthew and Peter - When Weirdos Collide! Next on FOX.

Shii Ann and possibly Ramona to an extent are meant to be foils for Jerri. I think Shii Ann is probably the smartest player on the tribe.

This team has more filler than the others, but it'd still be intersting to watch.

Team 2: Gretchen, Kimmi, Carl, Gabriel, John R., Christy

First, Gretchen and Gabe, the alliance-phobes, had to be together. I'd like to see if they would actually pair off and form a successful alliance together. Not to mention they'd probably be friends due to their strong work ethics and Gabe being similar to Greg.

I wanted Christy to have a good time at the very least, unlike her Amazon experience, so I put her on this team where at least I know that Gretchen and Gabe will treat her well.

Carl is double enjoyment. I wanted him on a team with strong, capable youngin's, thus Christy and Gabe, but also I've paired him up with the very Lindsey-like Kimmi for a bit of fun and conflict on this team.

John R. is filler on this team. I can't think of one useful purpose for him here....I guess he is the show's bible-beater if that means anything.

Team 3: Kelly W., Kel, Kelly G., John C., Helen, Roger

This team was somewhat built around Kelly W. I wanted to give her a Tagi-alliance type feel. John C. fills Richard's role, as they are somewhat similar in persona at least, Kel fills Rudy's role as the somewhat quiet military man who will take orders and never really try to lead, and Helen is Sue, the gruff, strong tell-it-like-it-is female.

I actually had Christy here as well, since her and Kelly really are so much alike it's scary, but I realized I wanted Roger on a team with John for obvious reasons and with strong females, again for obvious reasons.

The only "filler" person is Kelly G., since there wasn't anywhere else to put her. However, since her and Brandon are apparently an entertaining pair, I figure her and John could be good as well, despite him not being as flamboyant.

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