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"The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"	10-25-04, 06:23 PM (EST)
"The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"
U.N. ambassadors from several nations are disputing assertions by Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry that he met for hours with all members of the U.N. Security Council just a week before voting in October 2002 to authorize the use of force in Iraq. ... "This president hasn't listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them, to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable," Mr. Kerry said of the Iraqi dictator. ... But of the five ambassadors on the Security Council in 2002 who were reached directly for comment, four said they had never met Mr. Kerry. The four also said that no one who worked for their countries' U.N. missions had met with Mr. Kerry either. ... Mr. Kerry closed the final debate by recounting what his mother told him from her hospital bed, "Remember: integrity, integrity, integrity." Article Yeah, It's a JSlice Is it November 3rd yet?
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Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID

RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... TechNoir 10-25-04 1

   RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... bondt007 10-25-04 2

       RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... desert_rhino 10-25-04 3

           RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... TechNoir 10-25-04 4

               RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... bondt007 10-25-04 5

                   RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... seahorse 10-25-04 6

                   RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 7

                       RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... desert_rhino 10-25-04 8

                           RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... bondt007 10-25-04 9

                               RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... desert_rhino 10-25-04 11

                                   RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 21

                       RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... landruajm 10-25-04 12

                           RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 18

                               RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... TechNoir 10-25-04 22

                               RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... landruajm 10-25-04 30

                                   RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 32

                                       RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... bondt007 10-25-04 53

   RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... PagongRatEater 10-25-04 10

       Explosives TechNoir 10-25-04 13

           RE: Explosives PagongRatEater 10-25-04 15

               The explosives are being returned IceCat 10-25-04 19

                   RE: The explosives are being return... TechNoir 10-25-04 24

                       RE: The explosives are being return... diamond 10-25-04 25

                   RE: The explosives are being return... PagongRatEater 10-25-04 28

                       RE: The explosives are being return... desert_rhino 10-25-04 29

                           RE: The explosives are being return... PagongRatEater 10-25-04 44

                               RE: The explosives are being return... TechNoir 10-25-04 46

                                   RE: The explosives are being return... PagongRatEater 10-25-04 51

                               Read the whole article! IceCat 10-25-04 49

                                   RE: Read the whole article! PagongRatEater 10-25-04 52

                                       I'm not going to repeat myself... IceCat 10-25-04 54

                                           RE: I'm not going to repeat myself.... PagongRatEater 10-25-04 64

                               RE: The explosives are being return... desert_rhino 10-25-04 50

                                   Hmmm I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 55

                                       Read on... IceCat 10-25-04 56

                                           RE: Read on... TechNoir 10-25-04 57

                                           RE: Read on... dabo 10-25-04 59

                                           RE: Read on... I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 62

                                               I give up... IceCat 10-25-04 63

                                                   one would think dabo 10-25-04 65

                                                   Wait, that's my point I_Got_Nutn 10-25-04 66

                                                       RE: Wait, that's my point bondt007 10-26-04 71

                                                           RE: Wait, that's my point desert_rhino 10-26-04 76

                                                               Link AyaK 10-26-04 104

                                                       RE: Wait, that's my point desert_rhino 10-26-04 75

                                                       No, that's my point IceCat 10-26-04 77

                                                           RE: No, that's my point I_Got_Nutn 10-26-04 84

                                                               Not secured and IceCat 10-26-04 89

                                                                   NBC, CNN confirm Drudge story PagongRatEater 10-26-04 95

                                                                       Keep spinning... IceCat 10-26-04 96

                                                                           RE: Keep spinning... PagongRatEater 10-26-04 97

                                                                           So... AyaK 10-26-04 102

                                                                               RE: So... PagongRatEater 10-26-04 103

                                                                                   RE: So... TechNoir 10-26-04 111

                                                                                       RE: So... udg 10-27-04 124

                                                                               RE: So... Spidey 10-26-04 105

                                                                               US Military IceCat 10-26-04 107

                                                                                   Uh huh... AyaK 10-26-04 108

                                                                                       They had no problem... IceCat 10-26-04 112

                                                                                   RE: US Military I_Got_Nutn 10-26-04 113

                                                                               BBC bias AyaK 10-26-04 110

                                       RE: Hmmm desert_rhino 10-25-04 58

               Old News desert_rhino 10-25-04 60

       Winning TechNoir 10-25-04 14

           RE: Winning PagongRatEater 10-25-04 16

               RE: Winning TechNoir 10-25-04 17

                   Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be Ele... shawn4210 10-25-04 20

                       RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be... desert_rhino 10-25-04 23

                           RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be... PagongRatEater 10-25-04 26

                               RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be... desert_rhino 10-25-04 27

                       RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be... RudyRules 10-25-04 33

                   RE: Winning seahorse 10-25-04 31

                       RE: Winning TechNoir 10-25-04 37

                           RE: Winning PagongRatEater 10-25-04 38

                               RE: Winning dabo 10-25-04 39

                                   RE: Winning PagongRatEater 10-25-04 42

                                       RE: Winning dabo 10-26-04 79

                               RE: Winning TechNoir 10-25-04 41

                                   RE: Winning PagongRatEater 10-25-04 43

                                       RE: Winning TechNoir 10-25-04 48

                                   RE: Winning seahorse 10-25-04 45

                                       RE: Winning TechNoir 10-25-04 47

                                           RE: Winning seahorse 10-25-04 61

                                               RE: Winning Devious Weasel 10-26-04 68

                                                   RE: Winning desert_rhino 10-26-04 69

                                                       RE: Winning bondt007 10-26-04 70

                                                   RE: Winning seahorse 10-26-04 72

                                                   RE: Winning PagongRatEater 10-26-04 73

                                                   Elaboration Devious Weasel 10-26-04 74

                                                       RE: Elaboration PagongRatEater 10-26-04 90

                                                           RE: Elaboration TechNoir 10-26-04 92

                                                               RE: Elaboration PagongRatEater 10-26-04 94

Let's not forget... RudyRules 10-25-04 34

   RE: Let's not forget... desert_rhino 10-25-04 35

   RE: Let's not forget... landruajm 10-25-04 36

       RE: Let's not forget... desert_rhino 10-26-04 93

Tin Foil Hats! IceCat 10-25-04 40

   RE: Tin Foil Hats! seahorse 10-25-04 67

       Not having much luck selling IceCat 10-26-04 78

           RE: Not having much luck selling seahorse 10-26-04 80

           Maybe it needs a logo IceCat 10-26-04 81

               RE: Maybe it needs a logo dabo 10-26-04 82

                   I always wondered that IceCat 10-26-04 83

                       RE: I always wondered that dabo 10-26-04 86

               RE: Maybe it needs a logo seahorse 10-26-04 85

                   This is true... IceCat 10-26-04 88

                       RE: This is true... seahorse 10-26-04 91

RE: The Latest "Loose Language" fro... Sophie 10-26-04 87

And the latest in the string of Ker... PagongRatEater 10-26-04 98

   Disagree in part AyaK 10-26-04 106

       RE: Disagree in part PagongRatEater 10-26-04 109

           One other thing - bondt007 10-26-04 115

           Are You Still Spinning This? Devious Weasel 10-26-04 116

               RE: Are You Still Spinning This? PagongRatEater 10-26-04 117

                   RE: Are You Still Spinning This? dabo 10-26-04 119

                   Read this... IceCat 10-26-04 120

                       RE: Read this... PagongRatEater 10-26-04 121

                           They left after 24 hours! IceCat 10-26-04 123

                               RE: They left after 24 hours! PagongRatEater 10-27-04 125

                                   So it's another intelligence failur... IceCat 10-27-04 126

                                   RE: They left after 24 hours! Devious Weasel 10-27-04 127

                                   RE: They left after 24 hours! desert_rhino 10-27-04 128

                                       RE: They left after 24 hours! landruajm 10-27-04 129

                                           RE: They left after 24 hours! desert_rhino 10-27-04 130

                   RE: Are You Still Spinning This? Devious Weasel 10-26-04 122

               RE: Are You Still Spinning This? bondt007 10-26-04 118

   Did the Russians take the weapons? PagongRatEater 10-27-04 131

       Step away from the bar... IceCat 10-27-04 132

           RE: Step away from the bar... PagongRatEater 10-27-04 133

               I blame the eclipse... IceCat 10-27-04 134

                   RE: I blame the eclipse... dabo 10-27-04 135

                       RE: I blame the eclipse... seahorse 10-28-04 136

   Only 3 tons?!? PagongRatEater 10-28-04 137

       RE: Only 3 tons?!? desert_rhino 10-28-04 138

           RE: From ABC News... desert_rhino 10-29-04 139

               RE: From ABC News... PagongRatEater 10-29-04 140

                   A of mix of photos and opinion IceCat 10-29-04 141

                       RE: A of mix of photos and opinion PagongRatEater 10-29-04 142

                       RE: A of mix of photos and opinion TechNoir 10-29-04 143

                           Damning against Bush et al IceCat 10-29-04 153

                   RE: From ABC News... desert_rhino 10-29-04 144

                       RE: From ABC News... landruajm 10-29-04 145

                           RE: From the Pentagon and Fox Ne... PagongRatEater 10-29-04 146

                               RE: From the Pentagon and Fox Ne... desert_rhino 10-29-04 147

                                   RE: From the Pentagon and Fox Ne... desert_rhino 10-29-04 148

                               That's a nice spin, but Devious Weasel 10-29-04 149

                                   RE: That's a nice spin, but PagongRatEater 10-29-04 150

                                       RE: That's a nice spin, but Spidey 10-29-04 151

                                       RE: That's a nice spin, but Devious Weasel 10-29-04 152

   The thing that bothers me most... FesterFan1 10-30-04 159

       RE: The thing that bothers me most.... desert_rhino 10-31-04 161

Zzzzz... AyaK 10-26-04 99

   No swoop for you AyaK 10-26-04 100

       RE: No swoop for you PagongRatEater 10-26-04 101

           RE: No swoop for you DSpunk 10-26-04 114

I just realized something IceCat 10-29-04 154

   Nothing great but TechNoir 10-29-04 155

       RE: Nothing great but RudyRules 10-30-04 156

           Stick to the facts IceCat 10-30-04 157

               RE: Stick to the facts cqvenus 10-30-04 158

               RE: Stick to the facts desert_rhino 10-30-04 160

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Messages in this topic

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 06:29 PM (EST)

1. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

This came up last night here: http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID6/16228.shtml#67
See, PRE? And Sean has been rattling on about it all afternoon. They think this is a big deal.
In fact he met with all the permanent members of the security council. But even if he didn't, this totally smacks of desperation. I only have one thing to add:
PUPPIES !!!

Top

bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-25-04, 07:18 PM (EST)

2. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

"...In fact he did meet with...but even if he didn't..."?

- - which is it? - -
just say NO to swoops

Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 07:32 PM (EST)

3. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

there's just a problem with english... the past conditional and the preterite often sound the same. You have to go out of your way to make it clear to those who are looking to misinterpret.
"In fact he DID meet with... but even if he hadn't (which he did)..."

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 07:40 PM (EST)

4. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Thanks JV.
Remember the storyboards? The executive summary is up. Here it is.

Top

bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-25-04, 07:49 PM (EST)

5. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

JV - - thanks for the english lesson, no really...
So, Kos says "He did meet (with them)...". Is there some sort of proof? I mean, beside the Council Members who say it didn't happen...

How long to 1000?
just say NO to swoops

Top

seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 07:55 PM (EST)

6. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

John Kerry can not tell a lie. He did chop down the cherry tree.

Top

I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 08:12 PM (EST)

7. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Semantics aside, the meaning of Tech's post is the same.
It does not matter to the anti-Bush crowd whether Kerry is lying or not.

Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:15 PM (EST)

8. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

I thought the burden of proof was on the plaintiff.

Just saying.

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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-25-04, 08:21 PM (EST)

9. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

From the Kos site Tech linked us to...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041024-110609-9428r.htm
Is there other information that I should be aware of?

How long to 1000?
just say NO to swoops

Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:26 PM (EST)

11. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

The Washington Post article does tend to substantiate the claim that Kerry met with the permanent members of the SC.

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 08:55 PM (EST)

21. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Really?
One problem, Kerry claimed to have met with "all of them," not just the permanent members.
Yeah, It's a JSlice

Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:26 PM (EST)

12. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Doesn't it also mean "he didn't lie"?

Top

I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 08:49 PM (EST)

18. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Tech's post? Yes, it does.
Is she correct? Not supported by the article.
Yeah, It's a JSlice

Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:55 PM (EST)

22. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

And besides that

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landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:23 PM (EST)

30. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Neither is the assertion that Kerry lied about the contacts.

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 09:34 PM (EST)

32. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Besides the sections in my original post,
Jean-David Levitte, then France's chief U.N. representative and now his country's ambassador to the United States, said through a spokeswoman that Mr. Kerry did not have a single group meeting as the senator has described, but rather several one-on-one or small-group encounters.
He added that Mr. Kerry did not meet with every member of the Security Council, only "some" of them.
Yeah, It's a JSlice
If we can't trust the French on this, who can we trust?

Top

bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-25-04, 11:22 PM (EST)

53. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

oops... those facts again...

How long to 1000?
just say NO to swoops

Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:22 PM (EST)

10. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Actually I think that the Dems unleashed their October surprise today with the missing explosives story that the NYT has been sitting on for months waiting for the exact perfect moment.
Of course, you are right that the Bushies have better have something better than this up their sleeves and I'll take your Joe Lockhart and raise you one Karl Rove that they do.
Thursday or Friday...something nasty and personal...or nothin' at all (we ARE winning right now).

Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:37 PM (EST)

13. "Explosives"

You mean this?
"The Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives - used to demolish buildings, make missile warheads and detonate nuclear weapons - are missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.
The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Sunday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished sometime after the American-led invasion last year."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/international/middleeast/25bomb.html?oref=login&hp&ex=1098676800&en=61cf6e1aa29b7871&ei=5094&partner=homepage

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:39 PM (EST)

15. "RE: Explosives"

That's the one. Could be pretty good stuff, but definitely old news. We'll see if that turns the tide, but IMO that might be the October surprise from the Kerry campaign.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:52 PM (EST)

19. "The explosives are being returned"

LAST EDITED ON 10-25-04 AT 08:52 PM (EST)
The insurgents are returning the missing explosives and have been doing so for quite some time.

They're just returning them one car load at a time.
BTW: How do you suppose the 'Dems' got the Iraqi provisional government to make this announcement for them?

Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:59 PM (EST)

24. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

My Can'tadian friend, the Dems have friends around the world. The Repubs are tough and don't need no steenkin' friends.

Top

diamond 2307 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model"
10-25-04, 09:02 PM (EST)

25. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

Except for Poland. Don't forget them.

I think the Democrats are magic. That's how they do it.

Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:17 PM (EST)

28. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

Apparently this is old news that the NYT has been sitting on for some time. Certainly the NYT would be considered a friend of the Kerry campaign, no?

Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:23 PM (EST)

29. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

Hmm, a whole week, while trying to get answers from the Administration, sounds like "sitting on the story" to me.
The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing. It is unclear whether President Bush was informed. American officials have never publicly announced the disappearance, but beginning last week they answered questions about it posed by The New York Times and the CBS News program "60 Minutes."
Administration officials said Sunday that the Iraq Survey Group, the C.I.A. task force that searched for unconventional weapons, has been ordered to investigate the disappearance of the explosives.

Maybe things are different on Republican Planet. Seems to me I heard a lot of whining about not verifying stories just a couple of weeks ago.

Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:47 PM (EST)

44. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

According to Drudge NBC is reporting that this stuff disappeared 18 months ago before we even had troops in place.
Sounds like the media maybe should have verified a little more before running another unsubstantiated 'smear Bush' story.
Good try though.
http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw.htm

NBCNEWS: HUGE CACHE OF EXPLOSIVES VANISHED FROM SITE IN IRAQ -- AT LEAST 18 MONTHS AGO -- BEFORE TROOPS ARRIVED
The NYTIMES urgently reported on Monday how the Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives are now missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.
Jumping on the TIMES exclusive, Dem presidential candidate John Kerry blasted the Bush administration for its failure to "guard those stockpiles."
In an election week rush:
**ABCNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 4 Times
**CBSNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 7 Times
**MSNBC Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 37 Times
**CNN Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 50 Times
But tonight, NBCNEWS reports: The 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives were already missing back in April 10, 2003 -- when U.S. troops arrived at the installation south of Baghdad!
An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq. According to NBCNEWS, the HMX and RDX explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived.
The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors last saw the explosives in January 2003 when they took an inventory and placed fresh seals on the bunkers.
It is not clear why the NYTIMES failed to report the cache had been missing for 18 months -- and was reportedly missing before troops even arrived.
Umm - I have a theory....

Wonder what else they're going to make up in the next 6 days.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:57 PM (EST)

46. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

Scott McClelland said today "This was reported missing after -- when the interim government informed that these munitions went missing some time after April 9th of 2003"
I guess Drudge knows more than the White House.
Well that makes sense because Scott also said today "We've destroyed more than 243,000 munitions, we've secured another nearly 163,000 that will be destroyed." before he said "And as I pointed out, that's why we've already destroyed more than 243,000 munitions and have another nearly 363,000 on line to be destroyed." Is that flip-flopping or ???

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:13 PM (EST)

51. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

I don't necessarily see a discrepancy there. If the munitions went missing according to NBC's timeframe then it would not have been reported by Sadam, I assume. They were there in January, they were gone in April, but that doesn't mean they disappeared in April, just that is when they were reported missing. And apparently according to NBC they were missing when reporters embedded with the troops arrived in Bagdad on April 10.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:11 PM (EST)

49. "Read the whole article!"

The NY Times article was correct and complete. In the link provided in the sludgereport link you provided, here is a direct quote from the NY Times article:
Earlier this month, in a letter to the I.A.E.A. in Vienna, a senior official from Iraq's Ministry of Science and Technology wrote that the stockpile disappeared after early April 2003 because of "the theft and looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."
The likely timing of the disappearance of the explosives is part of the NY Times article as clearly shown in the above quote. The big story is that it explosives were not secured.
The report from the IAEA is new - it came out this month. The warning from the Iraqi government came out this month. Condoleeza Rice's remarks are this month.
The fact that the Bush administration was either unaware of the problem or was hiding the problem is news... current news.
Please try to argue your points truthfully and stop quoting disreputable blogs and propaganda sites. It wastes time and makes you sound like you are trying to hide something.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:18 PM (EST)

52. "RE: Read the whole article!"

Drudge is quoting NBC news reports and I will certainly link an NBC report when it is available.
HOW could the administration provide security prior to the invasion? HOW is Bush responsible for munitions that went missing under Sadam? Should we have invaded earlier?
It is YOUR OPINION that Drudge is unreliable. I have yet to link ANYTHING here that was from Drudge that has been incorrect or wrong.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:25 PM (EST)

54. "I'm not going to repeat myself..."

Take your fingers out of your ears and your hands off your eyes and read what I said.
You are being deliberately obtuse. The sludgereport obviously did not read the entire NY Times article and neither did you apparently.
The NBC news report and the NY Times article are in agreement on timings. Sorry if that fact is inconvenient for your purposes.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:51 PM (EST)

64. "RE: I'm not going to repeat myself..."

I would say the same thing. The NYT need to blame Bush for not guarding explosives that were gone before we got there really is inexplicable to me.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:13 PM (EST)

50. "RE: The explosives are being returned"

Ummm, isn't MSNBC the online arm of NBCNEWS?
'cause they're reporting the exact story listed above.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/
...
Whereabouts a mystery
ElBaradei told the council the IAEA had been trying to give the U.S.-led multinational force and Iraq’s interim government “an opportunity to attempt to recover the explosives before this matter was put into the public domain.”
But since the disappearance was reported in the media, he said he wanted the Security Council to have the letter dated, Oct. 10, that he received from Mohammed J. Abbas, a senior official at Iraq’s Ministry of Science and Technology, reporting the theft of the explosives.
...
At the Pentagon, an official who monitors developments in Iraq said U.S.-led coalition troops had searched Al-Qaqaa in the immediate aftermath of the March 2003 invasion and confirmed that the explosives, which had been under IAEA seal since 1991, were intact. The site was not secured by U.S. forces, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
...
Nice try though.

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 11:25 PM (EST)

55. "Hmmm"

That's in direct contradiction to the NYT piece
A senior Bush administration official said that during the initial race to Baghdad, American forces "went through the bunkers, but saw no materials bearing the I.A.E.A. seal."
and the NBC Nightly News which I heard with my own ears.
Yeah, It's a JSlice

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:29 PM (EST)

56. "Read on..."

LAST EDITED ON 10-25-04 AT 11:35 PM (EST)
It also states that the US Troops did not check all bunkers and did not leave security behind.
Just because they say the didn't see any seals does not mean they did a comprehensive search. They could have rolled through on humvees and took a look around and rolled out in ten minutes.
They have already admitted that the did not check all bunkers.
After the collapse of the regime, our liberation, everything was under the coalition forces, under their control," Dr. Omar said. "So probably they can answer this question, what happened to the materials."
Officials in Washington said they had no answers to that question. One senior official noted that the Qaqaa complex where the explosives were stored was listed as a "medium priority" site on the Central Intelligence Agency's list of more than 500 sites that needed to be searched and secured during the invasion. "Should we have gone there? Definitely," said one senior administration official.
In the chaos that followed the invasion, however, many of those sites, even some considered a higher priority, were never secured.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:31 PM (EST)

57. "RE: Read on..."

The administration has also been covering this up for a time. If they're so sure that it didn't happen under their watch, why did they want it hidden?

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:32 PM (EST)

59. "RE: Read on..."

It also states that the US Troops did not check all bunkers and did not leave security behind.
And this was a high priority site for a secure lock-down.

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 11:45 PM (EST)

62. "RE: Read on..."

It also states that the US Troops did not check all bunkers
Where did you get that?
I'll give you that they didn't secure the empty bunkers, but they probably had more important things to do.
Yeah, It's a JSlice

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:49 PM (EST)

63. "I give up..."

How did they know they were empty if they didn't check them?

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:54 PM (EST)

65. "one would think"

they could have just blown the damn things up if they didn't have the resources to properly secure the site

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-25-04, 11:59 PM (EST)

66. "Wait, that's my point"

The NYT article says...
They did check them all.
They found no explosives.
They moved on leaving no security behind.

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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-26-04, 00:10 AM (EST)

71. "RE: Wait, that's my point"

The AP reports the same - they arrived and there were no explosives...

How long to 1000?
just say NO to swoops

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:19 AM (EST)

76. "RE: Wait, that's my point"

Could you provide a link? 'cause that's not what the AP story on MSNBC says. (link above)

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 04:59 PM (EST)

104. "Link"

http://us.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/index.html
P.S. Nice to see that the U.N. is taking sides:
http://www.nysun.com/article/3783
Hmmm. So this is a campaign stunt by the head of the IAEA? Tell me again why the U.S. should be a member of the U.N.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:17 AM (EST)

75. "RE: Wait, that's my point"

Umm, it was the bunkers themselves that were under seal. They said they found no materials bearing the seal. That most certainly does NOT mean they found no explosives. It may be true that they found no explosives, but what you're presenting as evidence thereof, isn't.

"Inconceivable"
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:22 AM (EST)

77. "No, that's my point"

One senior official noted that the Qaqaa complex where the explosives were stored was listed as a "medium priority" site on the Central Intelligence Agency's list of more than 500 sites that needed to be searched and secured during the invasion. "Should we have gone there? Definitely," said one senior administration official.
In the chaos that followed the invasion, however, many of those sites, even some considered a higher priority, were never secured.

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-26-04, 00:47 AM (EST)

84. "RE: No, that's my point"

I conceded that they were not secured back in post 62.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 06:15 AM (EST)

89. "Not secured and"

... some not even checked!
This is negligence!

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 09:02 AM (EST)

95. "NBC, CNN confirm Drudge story"

LAST EDITED ON 10-26-04 AT 09:05 AM (EST)
Another huge miss by 60 Minutes this time in concert with the NYT. How does that news organization have ANY credibility left at all? Perhaps they should just change the tagline to "We make stuff up about Bush for a better America" - then at least they have a demographic to appeal to.
http://us.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/index.html

NBCNEWS Jim Miklaszewski quoted one official: "Recent disagreements between the administration and the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency makes this announcement appear highly political."
Hmmmm - ya think?

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 11:46 AM (EST)

96. "Keep spinning..."

Bush started a war looking for WMDs - there were none.
During Bush's war large caches of conventional weapons (small arms and rocket propelled grenades) were not secured;
Large caches of nuclear waste were not secured;
Large caches of conventional high grade explosives were not secured.
Bush had US troops guarding the banks and the oil fields while the weapons caches, nuclear waste sites, museums, and food banks were looted.
It's that whole winning the peace thing that shrub and the boy had absolutely no frikkin clue how to handle.
They fired the generals that tried to point these error out and now your sons and daughter are being killed because of gross criminal incompetence.
Bush is a moron... the entire world sees that.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 01:27 PM (EST)

97. "RE: Keep spinning..."

Sounds exactly like post-war Europe and how unpopular, idiotic and clueless Harry Truman was percieved at the time.
Bush, Kerry, Germany, Russia, Egypt and the UN all thought the weapons were there.
And personally, I am going to take a great degree of satisfaction from how pissed off France and friends are going to be on Nov. 3 after Bush wins.

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 04:50 PM (EST)

102. "So..."

LAST EDITED ON 10-26-04 AT 04:54 PM (EST)
...are the reporters who said the material wasn't there when the first U.S. troops arrived at the weapons site (discussed in PRE's link above) lying? Or are they in cahoots with the White House?
To me, morons are people who ignore the evidence because of their passions about a subject. Bush doesn't seem to be the one doing that.
And I find it interesting that CBS intended to run the story on Oct. 31, so it would have maximum anti-Bush impact before the election:
http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-fg-cbs26oct26,1,565561.story
Jeff Fager, executive producer of the Sunday edition of "60 Minutes," said in a statement that "our plan was to run the story on <Oct.> 31, but it became clear that it wouldn't hold, so the decision was made for the Times to run it."
In other words, CBS News was hoping that this would have the same effect as the "Bush DUI" story that was run the Sunday before the election four years ago, which ended up costing Bush the popular vote and almost cost him the election. This isn't about finding out the truth -- as the failure to check with the reporters who accompanied the troops into the facility proves.
Could we please stop pretending that there isn't a pervasive left-wing bias in the media (except, of course, for Fox, which has a right-wing bias)? And does CBS still have any credibility outside of its fellow-travellers on the far left?
P.S. I wonder if the NY Times wanted to rush into print with the story because it was learning that the story was untrue and wanted to get some pro-Kerry spin out of it before the story was totally discredited. I doubt Gail Collins would admit it, though.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 04:58 PM (EST)

103. "RE: So..."

I think there's a good chance that this could backfire on the Kerry campaign too. They already have an ad ready to go (linked in post 98 below) based on information that has been shown to be false. Seems like Documentgate redux and there's enough time for it to come out and impact the election.
Unless the media ignores it this time to prop up their candidate.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:31 PM (EST)

111. "RE: So..."

Backfire meaning? A rush of Kerry voters will suddenly find Bush a more attractive option? Sure thing.
BTW, Jon Stewart wants to know how come Rather is the only one to get a 'gate'.

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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-27-04, 07:00 AM (EST)

124. "RE: So..."

I could see some "lesser of evils" Kerry supporters getting so fed up they go 3rd party over this. I would call that "backfiring."

Slice n' Dice's Sigpic Chop Shop 2004

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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:02 PM (EST)

105. "RE: So..."

To me, morons are people who ignore the evidence because of their passions about a subject. Bush doesn't seem to be the one doing that.
Bwahaha! That? Is just about the funniest supposed-to-be-serious thing I have read all month. And given that it's election season, that is saying a lot.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:05 PM (EST)

107. "US Military"

... was aware of the cache in adavance of the start of the war and failed to take the necessary tactical steps to secure these explosives. That is a serious mistake in planning the prosecution of this war.

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:15 PM (EST)

108. "Uh huh..."

...so how were they supposed to seize the weapons site before taking out the Iraqi Army, which was defending it, and which only collapsed the day before the U.S. troops arrived? Paratrooper infiltration? Tunneling under the desert, a la Bugs Bunny ("At last, Pismo Beach!")?
Keep in mind that the U.S. thought that Saddam was going to use WMD, as he had planned in the first Gulf War. That was certainly a failure of intelligence ... but then again, since Saddam himself was putting out the info that he HAD WMD, and since he executed everyone he suspected of disloyalty (including his sons-in-law), it's easy to understand why the U.S. would have placed a higher priority on taking out possible rocket launching facilities or WMD sites than on taking and holding a mere weapons depot.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:36 PM (EST)

112. "They had no problem..."

... getting to the banks and the oil fields in plenty of time.
It all goes to priorities I guess.

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I_Got_Nutn 897 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
10-26-04, 05:38 PM (EST)

113. "RE: US Military"

By late 2003, diplomats said, arms agency experts had obtained commercial satellite photos of Al Qaqaa showing that two of roughly 10 bunkers that contained HMX appeared to have been leveled by titanic blasts, apparently during the war. They presumed some of the HMX had exploded, but that is unclear.
It sound like the Air Force tried to "secure" the site with some GBU-28s.
Yeah, It's a JSlice

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:31 PM (EST)

110. "BBC bias"

From a media site, discussing the BBC's U.S. election night coverage:
http://www.brandrepublic.com/mediabulletin/news_story.cfm?articleID=225935&Origin=MB25102004
BBC World will also broadcast a special edition of 'Question Time' featuring film-maker and author Michael Moore, columnist Richard Littlejohn and former Bill Clinton adviser Sidney Blumenthal.
Other discussion programmes feature guests such as Madeleine Albright, George Soros and former CIA director James Woolsey.
So, let's see -- the only person supporting Bush on the Beeb is the ardent gay-basher Littlejohn. I guess he's supposed to offset Michael Moore. But who offsets all the other Democrats?

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:31 PM (EST)

58. "RE: Hmmm"

Well, you tell me which part of the NYTimes story you like, and which part you don't, and then tell me which arm of NBC to listen to, which parts, what time, etc...
Then I'll be all enlightened. Too.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:39 PM (EST)

60. "Old News"

That's funny, the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology seems to have thought this was an issue... on the 10th of October of this year.
Really. Spin away, but this? Is current news. Current.
Now.
This month.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:39 PM (EST)

14. "Winning"

Evidence? Every poll I see is within the margin of error except Gallup, and I'd be glad to demonstrate that Gallup adjusted shows Kerry in the lead.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:42 PM (EST)

16. "RE: Winning"

All likely voter polls, but only two have Kerry ahead - and barely at that. Propensity of the evidence and all that. (Zogby single day polling had Bush by 7). Still a volatile electorate but I don't think Rove will pull anything out of the hat unless he has to, it has the possibility of backfiring.
RCP Average 10/17 - 10/24 48.9% 45.8% 1.4% Bush +3.1
ABC/Wash Post (1248 LV)* 10/22 - 10/24 48% 49% 1% Kerry +1
CNN/USAT/Gallup (1195 LV) 10/22 - 10/24 51% 46% 1% Bush +5
Reuters/Zogby (1207 LV) 10/22 - 10/24 48% 45% 1% Bush +3
TIPP (792 LV) 10/21 - 10/24 50% 42% 2% Bush +8
Newsweek (880 LV) 10/21 - 10/22 48% 46% 1% Bush +2
Time (803 LV) 10/19 - 10/21 51% 46% 2% Bush +5
GW/Battleground (1000 LV) 10/18 - 10/21 49% 45% 1% Bush +4
AP-Ipsos (976 LV) 10/18 - 10/20 46% 49% 2% Kerry +3
Marist (772 LV w/leaners) 10/17 - 10/19 49% 48% 1% Bush +1
FOX News (1000 LV) 10/17 - 10/18 49% 42% 2% Bush +7

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:46 PM (EST)

17. "RE: Winning"

Sir, I know you've taken a stat class, so you know better than to give me numbers without the margin of error. You're pretending those numbers are real ... that's a wronger.

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shawn4210 25 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
10-25-04, 08:53 PM (EST)

20. "Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be Elected!"

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 08:56 PM (EST)

23. "RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be Elected!"

Ahhh, Mr. non sequitur pops up yet again.
And sounding a lot like someone else who used to non sequitur a lot.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:12 PM (EST)

26. "RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be Elected!"

Funny - he sounds to me like someone who's going to be banned in just another day or two.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:16 PM (EST)

27. "RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be Elected!"

You mean "banned again," I think.

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RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:40 PM (EST)

33. "RE: Reason #0621 Kerry Should'nt be Elected!"

ROFL!!!!

Your 2003 College Football Pool Ultimate Prize Winner!

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:23 PM (EST)

31. "RE: Winning"

LAST EDITED ON 10-25-04 AT 09:25 PM (EST)
Details of all these polls can be found at
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry.html

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:51 PM (EST)

37. "RE: Winning"

The margin of error is NOT there. And the burden of the evidence is on the one presenting it, not on the receiver.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:26 PM (EST)

38. "RE: Winning"

Well since you insist:
ABC/Wash Post - Kerry +1 MOE 3%
CNN/Gallup - Bush +5 MOE 3%
Zogby - Bush +3 MOE 2.9%
TIPP - Bush +8 MOE 3.5%
Newsweek - Bush +2 MOE 3%
Time - Bush +5 MOE 4%
GWU Battleground - Bush +4 MOE 3.1%
AP - Kerry +3 MOE 3%
Marist - Bush +1 MOE 3.5%
Fox - Bush +7 MOE 3%
Harris - Bush +5 MOE 3%
That help?

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:30 PM (EST)

39. "RE: Winning"

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:35 PM (EST)

42. "RE: Winning"

Better yet.

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:26 AM (EST)

79. "RE: Winning"

(Hey Moe! Hey Moe!) Hey Moe! Hey Moe!
(Well, nyuck nyuck nyuck nyuck!) Well, nyuck nyuck nyuck nyuck!
(Look at the grouse, look at the grouse) Look at the grouse, look at the grouse
(Woof! Woof!) Woof! Woof!
Well, we never miss a chance we get up and dance and do the Curly shuffle
(That's right)
We do the Curly shuffle (What did you say?)
We do the Curly shuffle (That's what I thought you said!)
We do the Curly shuffle (ah ah ah ah!)
We do the Curly shuffle (Sointenly!)
We never miss a chance we get up and dance and do the Curly shuffle

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:35 PM (EST)

41. "RE: Winning"

Why yes it does.
Far from Bush leading, the overwhelming majority of them are statistical ties. And given that Bush is rarely shown as having over 50%, it is looking very much like a Kerry victory.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:39 PM (EST)

43. "RE: Winning"

But remarkably, Bush is consistently between 48% and 51% with the exception of two polls out of twelve - even the ones that show a tie. Kerry on the other hand, is between 42% and 48%, again with the exception of those same two polls out of 12. I'd take that as good news for me.
Come on, honestly. You would prefer to be on our side of the polling than yours right now. You're counting on the undecideds break your way and that's fine. But you better be right.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:02 PM (EST)

48. "RE: Winning"

Honestly I'd rather be where I am. Because I remember that we have an electoral system. And we are in _very_ good shape.
If the president were elected by popular vote, we would have had President Gore for the past 3.7 years.

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:56 PM (EST)

45. "RE: Winning"

ACtually 7 out of 11 have Bush leading by more than the margin of error. Not really a statistical tie.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:00 PM (EST)

47. "RE: Winning"

I think you need to look up how that works.

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:44 PM (EST)

61. "RE: Winning"

LAST EDITED ON 10-25-04 AT 11:52 PM (EST)
When spread between % polled is greater than the MOE the poll is greater than the MOE is is not a statistical tie.
ABC/Wash Post - Kerry +1 MOE 3% inside MOE
CNN/Gallup - Bush +5 MOE 3% outside MOE (1)
Zogby - Bush +3 MOE 2.9% outside MOE (2)
TIPP - Bush +8 MOE 3.5% outside MOE (3)
Newsweek - Bush +2 MOE 3% inside MOE
Time - Bush +5 MOE 4% outside MOE (4)
GWU Battleground - Bush +4 MOE 3.1%outside MOE (5)
AP - Kerry +3 MOE 3% at MOE
Marist - Bush +1 MOE 3.5% inside MOE
Fox - Bush +7 MOE 3% outside MOE (6)
Harris - Bush +5 MOE 3% outside MOE (7)

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:03 AM (EST)

68. "RE: Winning"

The spread needs to be double the MOE to be considered outside the MOE.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:07 AM (EST)

69. "RE: Winning"

STOP confuzzling the issue with facts and data.

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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-26-04, 00:09 AM (EST)

70. "RE: Winning"

Ya! Like the whole "I met with all of them" thing!!

How long to 1000?
just say NO to swoops

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:12 AM (EST)

72. "RE: Winning"

Thanks.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:13 AM (EST)

73. "RE: Winning"

That IS correct, an MOE of 3 means either candidate number can be 3% higher or lower. But the likelihood of either number being at either extreme of the MOE is not equal to the likelihood of the number being correct. The further you move away from the actual polling numbers, the less likely that number becomes. Of course, not it's not impossible and that's why there is an MOE.

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:13 AM (EST)

74. "Elaboration"

The MOE doesn't apply to the spread. Rather, it speaks to the likelihood that each candidate actually has the percentage of the vote polled reported in the poll.
So, if Candidate A has 45%, and the MOE is 4%, what the poll is saying is that Candidate A is polling someplace between 41% and 49%. If Candidate B has 50%, then what the poll is saying is that Candidate B is polling someplace between 46% and 54%. So in our hypothetical, although the spread indicates Candidate B leads Candidate A by 5% (seemingly outside the MOE), the actual spread could be anywhere from Candidate A leading Candidate B by 3% (Candidate A with 49% and Candidate B with 46%) to Candidate B leading Candidate A by 13% (Candidate A with 41% and Candidate B with 54%).

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 08:03 AM (EST)

90. "RE: Elaboration"

Again, true but not 100% accurate. If they are polling 50% with an MOE of 3%, they ARE polling somewhere between 47% and 53% but with an important caveat. They are most likely polling 50% with diminishing odds that they are polling at either extreme of the spread. It sort of like a bell curve and 50% sits in the middle at the highest probability, the other numbers are possibly correct but less likely to be so. Being at 49% or 51% is a great deal more likely than being at 47% or 53%, but still possible.

This is the dawning of the age of aquarius

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 08:31 AM (EST)

92. "RE: Elaboration"

They are most likely polling 50% with diminishing odds that they are polling at either extreme of the spread. It sort of like a bell curve and 50% sits in the middle at the highest probability, the other numbers are possibly correct but less likely to be so.
This is not accurate. The probability that they are +/- the MOE is another statistic entirely.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 08:54 AM (EST)

94. "RE: Elaboration"

Correct me then, cause that is how I understand. They had Zogby on TV the other day saying the same thing - that the likelihood is low that the numbers are at either edge of the MOE.

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RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:43 PM (EST)

34. "Let's not forget..."

That Kerry claimed to have been 90 feet away from Bill Buckner's error in 1986 when witnesses who saw him that night said he was not at the game.

Your 2003 College Football Pool Ultimate Prize Winner!

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:45 PM (EST)

35. "RE: Let's not forget..."

THAT? convinces me.

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landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 09:47 PM (EST)

36. "RE: Let's not forget..."

Okay. Then let's not forget that President Bush was arrested for drunk driving, that Laura Bush once accidentally killed somebody, and that their daughters have convictions for alcohol-related offenses.
Do we really have to keep going to the lowest freaking common denominator around here in our quest to trash the candidates and each other?
Tired. Very, very tired, this is getting.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 08:34 AM (EST)

93. "RE: Let's not forget..."

You know... You forgot Shrub's youthful indiscretions with hard drugs.

...and his incredible clumsiness on a machine designed to NOT topple over.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 10:30 PM (EST)

40. "Tin Foil Hats!"

LAST EDITED ON 10-25-04 AT 11:38 PM (EST)
Get yer tin foil hats here!
Can't make yer brain impervious to the issues without yer tin foil hat!
Get yer tin foil hats here!

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-25-04, 11:59 PM (EST)

67. "RE: Tin Foil Hats!"

Are you selling them are giving them away?

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:24 AM (EST)

78. "Not having much luck selling"

Seems a lot of people brought their own from home.

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:27 AM (EST)

80. "RE: Not having much luck selling"

Maybe so.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:30 AM (EST)

81. "Maybe it needs a logo"

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:32 AM (EST)

82. "RE: Maybe it needs a logo"

Do you know why Thomas Nast chose elephants to represent Republicans and donkeys to represent Democrats?

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:38 AM (EST)

83. "I always wondered that"

http://www.meckgop.com/elephant.html
Now I know...

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 01:12 AM (EST)

86. "RE: I always wondered that"

It is, of course, no accident that both animals are known for making loud and unpleasant noise.
You'll need a thicker tin.

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 00:49 AM (EST)

85. "RE: Maybe it needs a logo"

You can use a ##### (I mean donkey) on one just as well.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 06:14 AM (EST)

88. "This is true..."

Makes for a tragic image, don't you think?

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 08:13 AM (EST)

91. "RE: This is true..."

I love the matching pairs.

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Sophie 2407 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model"
10-26-04, 01:54 AM (EST)

87. "RE: The Latest "Loose Language" from Sen. Kerry"

Is it November 3rd yet?
I wish!!!

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 03:14 PM (EST)

98. "And the latest in the string of Kerry/CBS cahoots"

Apparently, not only did 60 Minutes and the NYT concoct this story about Bush being responsible for 400 tons of weapons that went missing before we got into Bagdad, but now it's come out that CBS was planning on holding this for election eve...And HOW CONVENIENT, Kerry already has an ad ready to go! (doesn't matter than it's based on a lie)
http://www.johnkerry.com/video/102604_obligation.html
Yep, this was the Democrats October surprise alright. And don't be surprised if it doesn't backfire as people realize it's based on a report that has been shown to be false - or at the very least unreliable and unconfirmed.

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:04 PM (EST)

106. "Disagree in part"

PRE, I disagree with your use of the word "concoct." There is certainly a real story here; the media didn't make it up. The problem is, they didn't investigate it sufficiently before reporting it.
Or ... maybe ... they did investigate it, started to find out that the story was full of holes, and decided to run with it before it fell apart completely (my personal theory).
But the story isn't concocted. The IAEA is a legitimate source for a story, even if it's a false story.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 05:18 PM (EST)

109. "RE: Disagree in part"

I use concoct is relation to the alleged culpability of Bush. Are explosives missing? Yep. Is Bush responsible for weapons stolen before he was in possession of the facility - not a chance. Like the ANG docs, it was a house of cards based on a few facts and some partisan extrapolation.

But the Times didn't just do a shoddy job of reporting and failed to identify the possibility that the explosives were gone before our troops arrived. It's worse than that: they did find that out, they just buried it deep in the story and, apparently, never bothered to follow up on it.
Here's Page 1 of the online version of the NYT story yesterday, where they wonder why nothing was done by U.S. forces to protect the site:
"The International Atomic Energy Agency publicly warned about the danger of these explosives before the war, and after the invasion it specifically told United States officials about the need to keep the explosives secured, European diplomats said in interviews last week. Administration officials say they cannot explain why the explosives were not safeguarded, beyond the fact that the occupation force was overwhelmed by the amount of munitions they found throughout the country."
And then, buried on Page 3 of the story, we find the answer:
"A senior Bush administration official said that during the initial race to Baghdad, American forces "went through the bunkers, but saw no materials bearing the I.A.E.A. seal." "
This matches perfectly with the NBC story:
"NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives, they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that reportedly went missing, according to NBC."

Lots more really good info on this here:
http://www.truthlaidbear.com/archives/2004/10/26/nyts_october_surprise_collapses.php#001509

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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-26-04, 08:26 PM (EST)

115. "One other thing - "

LAST EDITED ON 10-26-04 AT 08:27 PM (EST)
Where did the stockpiles of HMX and RDX go in such a short amount of time? Who took them? Where are they stached? ...cause I thought that - due to the fact WMD has not been found - WMD never was there because Iraq didn't have any good hiding spots...

How long to 1000?
if you can move 380 tons of this stuff, you could move a few tons of WMD...right?....anyone...?

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 09:26 PM (EST)

116. "Are You Still Spinning This?"

You know that both the reporter who was actually there as well as the spokesman for the unit that was there have now said that no search took place, right? I mean, you have to know that.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 09:32 PM (EST)

117. "RE: Are You Still Spinning This?"

Nope - hadn't heard it. Everything I've read says the story is either a lie or at best impossible to confirm. As always, I'd appreciate a source.
http://www.truthlaidbear.com/archives/2004/10/26/nyts_october_surprise_collapses.php#001509
http://secureliberty.org/index.php/2004/10/26/the_non_story_that_still_lives
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/
Sounds to me like your side is the one spinning, backtracking and covering up another false story gone wrong. October surpise indeed.

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 10:04 PM (EST)

119. "RE: Are You Still Spinning This?"

This isn't the actual October Surprise. The actual October Surprise isn't coming from the Democrats or the Republicans. Or the Pentagon or the Media. It's OPEC.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 10:26 PM (EST)

120. "Read this..."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/10020082.htm?1c
An NBC News reporter embedded with a U.S. Army unit that seized the Al-Qaqaa base the following day - April 10, 2003 - said Tuesday that she saw no signs that the Americans searched for the powerful explosives.
Reporter Lai Ling Jew, who accompanied the Army's 101st Airborne, Second Brigade, said her news team stayed at the base for about 24 hours en route to the capital.
"There wasn't a search," she told MSNBC, an NBC cable news channel. "The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. ... As far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away."
Stop spinning and read.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 11:07 PM (EST)

121. "RE: Read this..."

Who's spinning? Sounds like NBC to me, since this is essentially a retraction of their story yesterday. And I'm sure that it was an oversight on your part to leave out the rest of her quote:

And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was – at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.
Not to mention that it would take a LOT of trucks to move 800,000 pounds of explosives. Nevermind the fact that HMX is not C-4, and it is not plastic explosive. It is a powder, similar to cornstarch. You can hit it with a hammer and it won't explode. It has to be blended and fused to actually be a usable explosive; this is not easy, and requires an appropriate manufacturing facility to do the job.
If "looters" stole the stuff, it would be essentially worthless to them, unless they could fence it to explosive experts.
It also is not transported in any old truck. Because it is a powder, it requires a truck similar to a grain trailer, that is closed to wind and rain. It isn't transported on pallets, like artillery shells would be.
And that occured right under our noses? During a war? C'mon - who's spinning who?

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 11:36 PM (EST)

123. "They left after 24 hours!"

They did not leave troops behind and did not return to the site for 6 weeks!

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 09:25 AM (EST)

125. "RE: They left after 24 hours!"

This, from the NY Post, nicely sums up my feelings on the subject:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/31131.htm

Ed Morrissey points out at captainsquartersblog.com, it would have taken 100 men working 12 hours a day for two weeks to shlep the stuff away. And that would surely have been spotted by somebody.
It seems far more likely that Saddam had the materiel moved. According to one report, the United Nations last visited the facility on March 8, a week before the war began. But the U.N.'s major report on the facility came out two months earlier. Saddam could have been moving the materiel out over the course of the two months before the war began — maybe into Syria. Who knows? That's the point. Who knows? Certainly not the Times. Certainly not John Kerry. But they'll both do or say what they feel they need to do or say to secure the result they want on Nov 2.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 09:59 AM (EST)

126. "So it's another intelligence failure"

The UN tells the Bush administration in advance where the cache is and what it contains. The Bush administration makes no effort to ensure that tactical measures are taken to physically secure the cache as indicated. Not only did they fail to take physical custody of the site but they failed to use satellite imagery to observe the site to determiine whether or not the explosives are being moved. Zero effort.
Face it...
The Bush administration was acting like a bunch of prima donnas hell bent on not listening to the UN and this time it has directly lead to dead American soldiers, dead American diplomats, and dead American civilians.
When it comes to running a war Bush is a poser and he doesn't have the strength of character to even acknowledge his mistakes and this makes him a thousand times more of a wimp than his father - something I would have thought impossible.

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 10:13 AM (EST)

127. "RE: They left after 24 hours!"

Thanks PRE for making the case that the Administration is incompetent for us. I never thought you'd come over to our side, but I'm glad you did.
Think about your first paragraph there. Do you really think that, which as much satellite and air reconnaisance we were performing over Iraq prior to the invasion, that we weren't watching this site? After all, it was on our short list of possible WMD locations. If anyone had tried to move stuff out prior to the invasion, we would have known. We would have known, and we would have acted, and we would have trumpeted that fact, because that would have been the best and most solid justification for the invasion. "See, all you doubters, look how Saddam is moving something from this weapons site. That's why we had to go in." But none of that happened. We came, we invaded, we made a cursory glance to see if there were WMD, and then we didn't come back for six weeks to do a thorough inspection, during which time the goods were taken. I'm sure tons of people saw things, but I'm equally sure none of those people were even thinking about telling us.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 10:51 AM (EST)

128. "RE: They left after 24 hours!"

LAST EDITED ON 10-27-04 AT 10:53 AM (EST)
Mmmmhmmm, and 10 men with a forklift and 2 semis could do it in 1 day. Think 10 men, 2 semis, and a forklift were available for 12-18 hours at any time during that period?
Any idiot can throw cocktail napkin math onto a blog, but it takes someone with more intellectual integrity to admit that their scenario is at the far end of a spectrum of logistical possibility. Seriously, the guy thinks that a human carrying 25-pound loads would have to be superhuman to keep it up over 12 hours. Which is ludicrous to begin with, since HMX would most likely be stored as a powder in BARRELS, each weighing approximately 400 pounds. Forklift. Heavy hand truck. ROLLED ON THE GROUND. I can see so many scenarios that are infinitely faster and easier.
WHIIRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

The desperation of the spin that's being put on this is reminiscent of... well... the whole Iraq war, just in microcosm. It was A. No? Well, it was B, if not A. No? Well, it could very easily have been A, or B, or in any case, it's clearly C. And besides, all you're really doing is PICKING ON ME!!!!

*****************************************************
As an aside, you can make RDX (Cyclotrimethylene Trinitramine aka Royal Demolition eXplosive) in your kitchen. The process actually makes a mixture of RDX (mostly) and HMX (Cyclotetramethylene Tetranitramine). RDX plus 10% mineral oil and 0.6% lecithin is comp C-1 plastic explosive, and all THAT requires is physically kneading the RDX crystals into the oil in a ziplock bag. This? Is an improvised munitions specialist's dream. Just because they're terrorists doesn't mean they're dumb.
ETFix: typo

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landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 10:56 AM (EST)

129. "RE: They left after 24 hours!"

Nuffin to see here.
JV? When you get all scientific and stuff, it makes me want to gay-marry you.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 11:15 AM (EST)

130. "RE: They left after 24 hours!"

You dispute my math?

I knew there was a reason I should have stayed in Massachusetts.

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 11:32 PM (EST)

122. "RE: Are You Still Spinning This?"

Here, from tomorrow’s Times, is the story. But it’s been all over the ‘Net this afternoon and this evening.
White House officials reasserted yesterday that 380 tons of powerful explosives may have disappeared from a vast Iraqi military complex while Saddam Hussein controlled Iraq, saying a brigade of American soldiers did not find the explosives when they visited the complex on April 10, 2003, the day after Baghdad fell.
But the unit's commander said in an interview yesterday that his troops had not searched the facility and had merely stopped there for the night.
The commander, Col. Joseph Anderson, of the Second Brigade of the Army's 101st Airborne Division, said he did not learn until this week that the site, known as Al Qaqaa, was considered sensitive, or that international inspectors had visited it before the war began in 2003 to inspect explosives that they had tagged during a decade of monitoring.
Colonel Anderson, who is now the chief of staff for the division and who spoke by telephone from Fort Campbell, Ky., said his troops had been driving north toward Baghdad and had paused at Al Qaqaa to make plans for their next push.
"We happened to stumble on it,'' he said. "I didn't know what the place was supposed to be. We did not get involved in any of the bunkers. It was not our mission. It was not our focus. We were just stopping there on our way to Baghdad. The plan was to leave that very same day. The plan was not to go in there and start searching. It looked like all the other ammunition supply points we had seen already."
And later, from the same story:
President Bush's aides told reporters that because the soldiers had found no trace of the missing explosives on April 10, the explosives could have been removed before the American invasion. They based their assertions on a report broadcast by NBC News on Monday night that showed video footage of the 101st arriving at Al Qaqaa.
By yesterday afternoon, as Mr. Bush made his way through Wisconsin and Iowa, his aides had moderated their view, saying it was a "mystery" when the explosives disappeared. They said that it could have happened before or after the invasion and that Mr. Bush did not want to comment on the matter until the facts were known.
At the Pentagon, a senior official, who asked not to be identified, acknowledged that the timing of the disappearance remained uncertain. "The bottom line is that there is still a lot that is not known," the official said.
The official suggested that the material could have vanished while Saddam Hussein was still in power, sometime between mid-March, when the international inspectors left, and April 3, when members of the Army's Third Infantry Division fought with Iraqis inside Al Qaqaa. At the time, it was reported that those soldiers found a white powder that was tentatively identified as explosives. The facility was left unguarded, the official said.
The 101st Airborne Division arrived April 10 and left the next day. The next recorded visit by Americans came on May 27, when Task Force 75 inspected Al Qaqaa, but did not find the large quantities of explosives that had been seen in mid-March by the international inspectors. By then, Al Qaqaa had plainly been looted.
Colonel Anderson, who is now the chief of staff for the 101st and spoke by telephone from Fort Campbell, Ky., said that he did not see any obvious signs of damage when he arrived on April 10, but that his focus was strictly on finding a secure place to collect his troops, who were driving and flying north from Karbala.
"There was no sign of looting here," Colonel Anderson said. "Looting was going on in Baghdad, and we were rushing on to Baghdad. We were marshaling in."
A few days earlier, some soldiers from the division thought they had discovered a cache of chemical weapons that turned out to be pesticides. Several of them came down with rashes, and they had to go through a decontamination procedure. Colonel Anderson said he wanted to avoid a repeat of those problems, and because he had already seen stockpiles of weapons in two dozen places, did not care to poke through the stores at Al Qaqaa.

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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-26-04, 09:57 PM (EST)

118. "RE: Are You Still Spinning This?"

I looked at the story and no, that's not what they said...
Did you look at the story?
I mean...did you?

How long to 1000?
just say NO to swoops

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 09:04 PM (EST)

131. "Did the Russians take the weapons?"

From the Financia times a Pentagon official is saying that it might be the Russians who moved these weapons. Pretty unbelievable but I thought I'd share:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/a4bc50c6-2870-11d9-9308-00000e2511c8.html

In an interview with the Financial Times, Mr Shaw said: “For nearly nine months my office has been aware of an elaborate scheme set up by Saddam Hussein to finance and disguise his weapons purchases through his international suppliers, principally the Russians and French.
“That network included a major effort employing various Russian units on the eve of hostilities to both orchestrate the collection of munitions and assure their transport out of Iraq via Syria.”
The Russian embassy in Washington rejected the claims as “nonsense”, saying there were no Russian military in Iraq at the time.
Mr Shaw, who heads the Pentagon's international armament and technology trade directorate, has not provided evidence to back up his assertions, and the Pentagon distanced itself from his remarks.
“I am unaware of anyparticular information on that point,” said Larry Di Rita, Pentagon spokesman. “I would be careful about information that has been asserted because I don't know how accurate it might be.”

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 10:50 PM (EST)

132. "Step away from the bar..."

You, sir...
have had a little more than your share of the Koolaid methinks!

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 10:59 PM (EST)

133. "RE: Step away from the bar..."

Just sharing. And Financial Times is not a blog, right?

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 11:32 PM (EST)

134. "I blame the eclipse..."

Some wierd mojo going on in the news world tonite!
Sox are likely going to win the World Series;
Yasser Arafat apparently lies on his death bed;
A Pentagon official is claiming the Russians took the missing HDX/RDX;
Scientists announce Hobbits once roamed the earth.
To quote the movie Airplane: 'I picked a bad night to quit sniffing glue...'

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-27-04, 11:48 PM (EST)

135. "RE: I blame the eclipse..."

We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6348700/

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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-28-04, 00:02 AM (EST)

136. "RE: I blame the eclipse..."

Were the werewolves out on an eclipsed moon.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-28-04, 08:53 AM (EST)

137. "Only 3 tons?!? "

This story just unravels more and more every day.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=204304&page=1

The information on which the Iraqi Science Ministry based an Oct. 10 memo in which it reported that 377 tons of RDX explosives were missing — presumably stolen due to a lack of security — was based on "declaration" from July 15, 2002. At that time, the Iraqis said there were 141 tons of RDX explosives at the facility.

But the confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over 3 tons of RDX was stored at the facility — a considerable discrepancy from what the Iraqis reported.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-28-04, 02:54 PM (EST)

138. "RE: Only 3 tons?!? "

How much credence can you put in an article that wasn't even proofed?
To whit:
... memo in which it reported that 377 tons of RDX explosives were missing...
the total amount of conventional explosives reported missing was 377 tons, not the just RDX. Also, later in the article, they cast aspersions on the amount of HMX stored there, but it's pure conjecture.
...The documents show IAEA inspectors looked at nine bunkers containing more than 194 tons of HMX at the facility. Although these bunkers were still under IAEA seal, the inspectors said the seals may be potentially ineffective because they had ventilation slats on the sides. These slats could be easily removed to remove the materials inside the bunkers without breaking the seals, the inspectors noted.
Mmmhmmm... and why didn't said inspectors ... umm... "inspect?"
And why isn't ABDNews making these "confidential IAEA documents" available, if they're so damning?
Additionally: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/28/international/middleeast/28bomb.html
Looters stormed the weapons site at Al Qaqaa in the days after American troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday.
...
But the accounts make clear that what set off much if not all of the looting was the arrival and swift departure of American troops, who did not secure the site after inducing the Iraqi forces to abandon it.
"The looting started after the collapse of the regime," said Wathiq al-Dulaimi, a regional security chief, who was based nearby in Latifiya. But once it had begun, he said, the booty streamed toward Baghdad.

http://home.comcast.net/~jvneedham/tazsnd.wav

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 09:16 AM (EST)

139. "RE: From ABC News..."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Vote2004/story?id=207199&page=1
Seems that on the 18th, some army grunts and a news crew took a bunch of video in the al Qaqaa bunkers, showing IAEA seals being broken and crates and boxes of explosives identical to those from the last IAEA videotape of the facility.
Now, can we just admit that Bush's "plan" had no provision for dealing with this and that looters took tons and tons of high-yield explosives VERY suitable for making plastic explosives in the field?
And as expected, the spin is EXACTLY paralleling the whole Iraq War spin: It happened BEFORE Iraq fell. No? well, most of the explosives were already gone before Iraq fell. No? Well, then the 400 tons is insignificant compare to the 400,000 tons we've destroyed elsewhere in Iraq, and besides, it doesn't really matter.

brak brak brak

I'm so excited to see what spin gets put on THIS. C'mon, I double-dog dare ya.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 09:41 AM (EST)

140. "RE: From ABC News..."

OK - several holes.
1) Where is this video? Let's see it. Does it actually show munitions or just seals, cause the buildings were not secure and the slats were removable. Anybody confirm those were or weren't empty or how much material was in there?
2) Russian trucks were viewed by satellite moving out materials the day before hostilities began.
3) THIS photo was taken the day before at al Qaqaa pointing to the removal of something from the site.
4) Regardless of the time needed to move the explosive a convoy of 30 trucks would have been needed to physically move that much tonnage. How did they get through roadblocks, surveillance and satellite imagery.
I'll admit that regardless of whether the weapons were there or not better security should have been in place, if you'll admit that there is no solid evidence that actually proves that Kerry's postulation is true. The facts remain to be seen and even Kerry's top Iraq adviser admits that. Unforunately, it doesn't stop the guy from going off half-cocked and using false accusations (remember innnocent until proven guilty) to advance his political agenda.

I always take dares, but I think you probably knew THAT.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 10:13 AM (EST)

141. "A of mix of photos and opinion"

I notice that you posted the picture without the expert commentary about what may or may not be in the photo.
YOU call them Russian trucks while the Pentagon last night took great steps to distance themselves from the official who told the British Press that the Russians took the explosives.
There is no evidence that those trucks are Russian.
The video evidence released today showing Airborne troops removing the seals of the explosives barrels is far more damning.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 10:23 AM (EST)

142. "RE: A of mix of photos and opinion"

But none of it is conclusive. That's my point, nobody can prove any allegations at this point, but that doesn't stop folks from trying to make political hay.

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 10:25 AM (EST)

143. "RE: A of mix of photos and opinion"

Just in case someone would like to misinterpret this, the seals broken by US troops were placed there by the International Atomic Energy Agency who had been monitoring the weapons. The troops then left without resecuring the weapons.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 04:13 PM (EST)

153. "Damning against Bush et al"

The troops did find the HDX and RDX on the site where the UN said it was and then left it unguarded for 6 weeks.
This very simple truth has been made very clear by the Pentagon itself.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 11:44 AM (EST)

144. "RE: From ABC News..."

LAST EDITED ON 10-29-04 AT 11:48 AM (EST)
ETA: CNN.com link: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/28/iraq.explosives/index.html
ABC has been showing the video. If you're willing to register and/or pay, you can even see it on www.abcnews.com/video. It shows Airborne soldiers breaking what match the description of the IAEA seals on containers of a substance matching the physical description of HMX. It shows the interior of the facility, which is reported to match EXACTLY the most recent IAEA videotapes of this facility. The news crew has testified that this is where they were, when, and how and what they saw, and it's totally supported by the evidence on the tape. IAEA sealed containers of HMX were breached by US soldiers on videotape, and they proceeded to leave said breached containers unsealed and vacated the area, leaving it all for looters. Who did what looters do. What part of this are people not getting?
I'm all for the Bart Simpson "I didn't do it." "Nobody SAW me do it." "you can't PROVE anything" approach that this Administration has embraced for all its many gaffes, but this time? They're so busted. Hard evidence.
Seriously. What WOULD you accept as "hard evidence?" Videotape of the looters in action? maybe flashing their ID and showing us the contents of the crates marked HMX in 10" letters? the license plates of the vehicles used, maybe?
Give. Up.
Busted.
It's ovah.
However, Bush will never admit any error or wrongdoing, as evidenced by the continuing violations of the Geneva Accords and the increasingly lame justifications thereof. He'll deny deny deny yell argue countercharge weasel deny argue LIE out his arse and deny some more, then have lawyers weasel even more. With any luck, this will kill him at the polls on Tuesday. He's really starting to look like the weaseling, lying, bullshitting sack of horse manure that he is.

as an aside, yet another very very easy plastic explosive made from EITHER RDX or HMX. 7-10% Vaseline petroleum jelly (or an off-brand, if you're strapped for cash) by weight, kneaded into either explosive base in a ziplock bag. At the lower end, it makes a very suitable improvised shaped charge, even.

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landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 11:53 AM (EST)

145. "RE: From ABC News..."

Give. Up. Busted. It's ovah.
Puh-leez. You're talking to the primary adherents of the First Church of Galaxyquest.
deny deny deny yell argue countercharge weasel deny argue LIE out his arse and deny some more
Exactly. Never give up, never surrender.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 01:15 PM (EST)

146. "RE: From the Pentagon and Fox News..."

The jury is still out. There are way too many conflicting reports on this NYT/CBS piece spun to defeat Bush.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137017,00.html

A U.S. Army officer came forward Friday to say a team from his 3rd Infantry Division took about 250 tons of munitions and other material from the Al-Qaqaa (search) arms-storage facility soon after Saddam Hussein's regime fell in April 2003.
Explosives were part of the load taken by the team, but Major Austin Pearson was unable to say what percentage they accounted for.
The Pentagon believes the disclosure helps explain what happened to 377 tons of high explosives that the International Atomic Energy Agency (search) said disappeared after the U.S.-led invasion.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 01:22 PM (EST)

147. "RE: From the Pentagon and Fox News..."

{laughter}
Who's surprised that Faux News has a slightly mitigating story to run on this topic?
Note that this means NOTHING overall, except to obfuscate the issue with pure noise. Some unspecified percentage of 250 tons is NOT 360-380 tons, no matter HOW it's spun. Plus the fact that the HMX bunkers that the 101st opened over a week later weren't breached by the 3rd...
Don't MAKE me get out my martians again.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 01:33 PM (EST)

148. "RE: From the Pentagon and Fox News..."

No, wait. Let me guess.
Someone snuck into those bunkers that were sealed with thin wire and stamped lead closures through the ventilation ducts, hauled out all the HMX, and replaced it with soap flakes? Before the invasion, of course. And they replaced the individual seals on the containers, too.
I? may die laughing today. Which is a feat, considering how badly life is sucking right now.

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 02:49 PM (EST)

149. "That's a nice spin, but"

The guy actually said he had no idea what was taken, whether any of the explosives in question were taken, and stated that no one in his group saw any seals.
But you are doing a superlative job following the GOP talking points on this, especially considering those talking points change on a twice-daily basis.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 02:54 PM (EST)

150. "RE: That's a nice spin, but"

Isn't the burden of proof on the accuser?
Just askin'.

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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 03:00 PM (EST)

151. "RE: That's a nice spin, but"

Indeed, but I believe it has been more than met.
There is a certainly a prepoderance of evidence proving post-occupation looting.
Borders on clear and convincing, IMO.

Hey, I'm at work. Figure I may as well use all the legalese, so I can rationalize that I am working.

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 03:14 PM (EST)

152. "RE: That's a nice spin, but"

Personally, I think the burden of proof rests with the person trying to deny factual evidence. It has been conclusively proven that the explosives were there, under seal, after the invasion, and AFTER THE DATE that the major the Pentagon Public Affairs office trotted out today was at the site. That's a fact. You can wish it away, you can spin it away, you can click your heels together three times and say "there was no RDX there, there was no RDX there, there was no RDX there" but that will not change the fact that your side has lost this particular argument.
And to me, this is as much telling about what it says about this administration as what it says about the invasion. Because if they had said on Sunday "It is certainly a possibility - we were in a rush to get to Baghdad because we thought that would be the quickest way to resolve the invasion and we needed all hands there for the fighting we thought would take place and in retrospect we should have done much, much more to secure that facility" this would be over now. But they didn't do that, because this Administration is fundamentally incapable of ever admitting that they may have done something wrong, and so instead they have flailed about from story to story and explanation to explanation and kept this thing alive for five days now. That's right, they themselves have kept this thing alive. Not Kerry, not the media, but the Bush campaign. Because every time they come out with another story, it's getting checked and found wanting, causing them to flop around for another excuse, which prolongs the cycle even more. (It's also interesting to note that the things that have been the most damning to the administration on this one have come from the career military {which apparently has grown tired of hearing people like Rudy Guiliani and Bill Kriston and Laura Ingraham call it incompetent} and our allies in the provisional goverment of Iraq {which apparently has read the writing on the wall and feels the need to start hedging its bets and developing some good will in the Kerry camp}.)

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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-30-04, 12:14 PM (EST)

159. "The thing that bothers me most..."

LAST EDITED ON 10-30-04 AT 12:17 PM (EST)
...about this is that no one from the Bush administration can say definitively where this stuff went...or even if there was "stuff" to begin with. That leaves 2 options...both pretty damning:
1) They honestly don't know. This scares me 10x more than all the theories about who might've taken it, or what they might've done with it. That no one can come forward and say, "Site X was secured on such-and-such date. There was Y amount of explosives and other generally nasty-to-the-human-condition matter. It was guarded by Troop Z...etc.", is truly frightening. In all the noise about what might or might not have happened, the one constant is the explanations originating out of the arses of those at the top of this dung heap. I don't really care what "might've" happened, or whether it "might've" been gone before we arrived. What I care about is the chain of command being informed. If these folks really don't know what happened, isn't that much more chilling than the notion that some folks stole the material and made bombs with it? Am I alone here?
2) They're lying. If they know precisely what happened, and it exhonorates them, wouldn't they say so? No one lies about life-and-death matters quite like this administration, so it's not that big of a stretch to suggest they're just bold-face-lying about this mess. Like JV said, the daily (and sometimes hourly) change in explanation sounds eerily reminiscent of the changing reasons why we're there in the first place. The thing I keep asking myself is, if they do know, and they're hiding it, what other skeletons are waiting to hop out of this closet?
Fester

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-31-04, 03:33 PM (EST)

161. "RE: The thing that bothers me most..."

Just for the record, when dealing with my children this sort of behavior is an absolutely sure sign that I need to roll up my sleeves and start digging, because I am being deceived somehow.
Now, I'm not saying that Bush requires the same kind of approach that my 7-year-old needs... after all, she's pretty advanced.

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 03:28 PM (EST)

99. "Zzzzz..."

"Kerry lies" is like "dog bites man" -- not news.
"Kerry tells truth" is news.

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 03:29 PM (EST)

100. "No swoop for you"

...so there.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-26-04, 03:37 PM (EST)

101. "RE: No swoop for you"

I'll never be able to not post long enough to swoop a political thread!

Have we banned that new empty threads guy, yet?

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DSpunk 3270 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
10-26-04, 05:38 PM (EST)

114. "RE: No swoop for you"

Maybe you should make that a goal.

Sliced. Again.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 05:30 PM (EST)

154. "I just realized something"

Of all the car bombs and improvised explosive device attacks in Iraq during the occupation, I don't recall any reporting on what type of explosives are being used in each of the attacks.
Can anyone find any news reports where the type of explosive is mentioned?

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-29-04, 06:24 PM (EST)

155. "Nothing great but"

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=72253
says "Our sources were unanimous in thinking that for reasons noted below, “it’s still in Iraq, and this is the most likely primary source of the explosives which have been used to blow up Humvees and in all the deadly car bomb attacks since the Occupation began.”"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1007/p04s01-woiq.html
"A softly blinking blue cellphone hidden in a bush, wired and taped as a detonator, and linked to a long red detonation cord that disappeared into the cab of a burned-out oil tanker on the side of the road. Waiting to blow inside: three 130mm artillery shells, daisy-chained to explode simultaneously."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/ied-iraq.htm
"mortar rounds, artillery projectiles, and other explosive-filled ordnance as the explosive device." This is a pretty comprehensive article on IEDs (improvised explosive devices) in Iraq.

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RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-30-04, 09:04 AM (EST)

156. "RE: Nothing great but"

The case of the explosives is still very much up in the air.
The woman from NBC that was previously referred to was a producer and not the reporter at the scene. The reporter states that he saw some bunkers in which no weapons existed when the troops arrived. There is some evidence of trucks at the facility possibly moving at least some of the material before we arrived. There is the possibility that most of what remained was in fact taken by our troops according to the latest reports.
Even if some was looted, which seems unlikely, the fact is that the US military seized and destroyed over 1000 times more munitions than may have been at that facility.
The facts in this case are yet to be fully clarified.

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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-30-04, 10:00 AM (EST)

157. "Stick to the facts"

A satellite photo of trucks infornt of the bunkers was provided. There is no proof of when the photo was taken and there is no indication whether the trucks were picking up materials or dropping it off. The satellite photo shows that two trucks were once parked in front of the bunkers*PERIOD*
The reporter some 'some bunkers in which there were no weapons' but the reporter did not enter ALL of the bunkers. There is video tape evidence of those same troops opening sealed bunkers and opening barrels of white powder which they themselves identified as explosives. The troops, by their own admission, stated that they did not open all of the bunkers before they left the next day.
This 'possibility that most was taken by our own troops' was presented by some army officer they dragged up to the press podium and who crumbled under reporter's questions stating that he did not know what materials were taken from the site.
The Republicans must think that people are stupid enough to fall for these lame smoke screens and it is pathetically obvious that they are absolutely desperate to direct attention away from this issue.
The Proven Facts:
1) The UN warned the administration before the war started that there were explosives at the site.
2) There were explosives on site when the troops arrived.
3) The site was left unguarded for over six weeks after the troops left.
4) Now the explosives are gone.
The Newest Rumor Yet to be Proven:
1) The Administration is desperately trying to keep out of the papers leaks from official sources that HDX and RDX are the main components in most of the car bombs going off in Iraq.
If they call it 'treason' when someone provides aid and comfort to the enemy during a time of war, what do they call it when you give the enemy weapons that are turned on your own troops?

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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-30-04, 10:24 AM (EST)

158. "RE: Stick to the facts"

what do they call it when you give the enemy weapons that are turned on your own troops?
stupidity, thy name is Bush.
~ cq

Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
10-30-04, 12:57 PM (EST)

160. "RE: Stick to the facts"

If they call it 'treason' when someone provides aid and comfort to the enemy during a time of war, what do they call it when you give the enemy weapons that are turned on your own troops?
I think they call THAT treason, too.
1) The Administration is desperately trying to keep out of the papers leaks from official sources that HDX and RDX are the main components in most of the car bombs going off in Iraq.
That's been true in the region (and elsewhere) for years. Anyone remember Lockerbie? It's amusing to watch them squirming as they try to quash ALL the sources at once.

I? am getting the biggest chuckle out of all the "Hey, I *do* buy that lame-assed explanation, how can you NOT?" posts. Which is good, 'cause otherwise I'd be clawing holes in my own skull.

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