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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 05-01-03, 07:04 AM (EST) "How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" We all know that there have been a lot of sympathy votes since the start of AI (both seasons) as well as psycho-voting fan bases (voting for their favorite person for the entire 2 hours). Alas, I've a very simple soultion (actually 2, but both should be pretty simple). First, instead of voting for your favorite, you vote for your LEAST favorite (like Survivor). This would almost certainly increase the likelihood that the 'suckiest' person would be booted each week. Clay, Kim, and Ruben fans are, I'd imagine, all agreed that Josh is the least talented of the remaining bunch. But the current format does not reflect the total picture, IMO. Since, each week, the least favorite would be voted out (whereas right now that is not certain - being the one who got the least amount of 'yay' votes does NOT make you the least favorite), the following week would consist of the most liked until we got to the end with the most liked person winning. Things probably would look a LOT different (in terms of boot order) both this season and last. Second, people should only be allowed to vote ONCE and for only ONE person. It kind of defeats the purpose to be able to vote more than once AND for more than one person. Now, I'm no electronics/telephone wiring expert, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be TOO hard since they do this for other contests all the time. And I guess it's just too bad if your family all likes one person and you like another. One vote per phone number would (I would think) assure a MUCH more accurate polling of the public's voice. See, problem solved I'm sure this won't happen because it makes too much sense...but it can't hurt to wish.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... Yazimodo 05-01-03 1    RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... carencey 05-01-03 2        RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... Lancerdude74 05-01-03 3  RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... AZ_Leo 05-01-03 4  RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... cyclehausen 05-01-03 5  RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... munson 05-01-03 6    RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... PhoenixMons 05-02-03 7        RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... carencey 05-05-03 8        RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 ve... ShowMeTheWinner 05-05-03 9

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Yazimodo 32 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 05-01-03, 09:06 AM (EST) 1. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" Not necessarily so. The problem with that solution is people flying under the radar (which i find is the main problem of Survivor/BigBrother). See, when people are different (in good or bad), as in, they elicit a reaction or they are noticed, people vote for them. So, in the first few weeks, what you might get is someone like Vanessa Olivarez (which everyone hates) and Ruben (the people who don't like him hate him just cuz he's in their face) as the bottom two. Look at the first season of Big Brother and you will understand EXACTLY what i mean. We would be left with a bunch of so-so people after the first few weeks. Of course, i'm being pessimistic, but it does kinda look as if it would be worse off that way. This year, we probably woulda seen Vanessa, Corey, Kim Caldwell gone first and had to deal with Grisby and Rasmussen maybe to the final 5 or so. This approach favors the unnoticed, not the talented. At least, i feel...   Top

carencey 263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-01-03, 11:09 AM (EST) 2. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" Gotta disagree with you on a few points, Yazi. One, everybody didn't hate Vanessa. The current format is that the person that fewest people think is the best goes home--which isn't necessarily the same as the person most people think is the worst. The early rounds favor people who polarize the audience--a majority of people may think Charles for example is the worst one up there, but if just enough people like him best he stays. On the other hand, most of those people may have Vanessa in their top five (okay, maybe I'm exaggerating there, but you get the point). She's not the worst, but she's gone. I don't think that makes for a better show--and AI is awfully hard to compare with Big Brother, which was a pure personality competition that year. The changes WOULD favor the talented and those who have broader appeal over those who aren't necessarily more talented but appeal to a relatively small but devoted niche of fans--and that will make for a better show.   Top

Lancerdude74 165 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-01-03, 05:59 PM (EST) 3. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" I think the best way to get more of a fair result would be to combine the fan voting with the judges opinions. I think each of the judges should rank the contestants in order of how good they thought they were and then take the average of the rankings to form the judges mark. Then we would take the rankings of fan voting and average them with the judges rankings to get the final score. The person with the worst score would leave. If there was a tie, then they could base it on who got more votes. I think this would be the best solution to the problem and they can still have their bottom three and they wouldn't have to even talk about the judges rankings.   Top

AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-01-03, 06:16 PM (EST) 4. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" >Second, people should only be allowed to vote ONCE and for only ONE person. I agree with this and I would think the producers who are going to have to market the winner would want it this way as well. It would give them a much more accurate idea of just how much sales potential a person has. One person voting 100 times will still only buy 1 CD but 100 people each voting once would be more likely to equal 100 CD's. Sure, you wouldn't get over 20 million votes cast but you may get people voting who don't now. Personally, I don't care enough about any of them to spend 2 hours voting for anyone and since I'm pretty sure one pathetic little vote of mine would count for nothing I don't bother to even try. If I thought that one vote would count, I would be more likely to do it.   Top

cyclehausen 1197 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-01-03, 07:29 PM (EST) 5. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" The biggest flaw is that people with love/hate followings would be toast. True, Josh wouldn't be final 4. But neither would Clay. We'd likely see the mediocrity-victim boots (Vanessa, Charles, Kim C) in the final 4 instead. How boring would that be?   Top

munson 1314 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 05-01-03, 10:51 PM (EST) 6. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" It's been said before in other threads and I agree. This is NOT a talent contest. It's a popularity contest, plain and simple. Hell, on a weekly basis, Ryan encourages us to vote for our FAVORITES to keep them around, not the best performers who've earned the right to advance. If you want to watch a talent competition, check out Star Search because AI is not about vocal ability. Many of us would hope that talent would win out over the other intangibles but the truth is, it doesn't always happen this way. Take a look at the Pop Idols hanging around the charts today. Is this a collection of the most talented singers in the world? Hardly. I agree 1000% with Simon regarding the fans having the final say so no result is wrong or unfair to the eliminated contestant. For whatever reasons, and talent isn't one of them, Josh has a large base of support amongst the viewing audience. Like Nikki McKibbin, this will carry him a long way. Should the rules of the game be changed because we don't like the outcome? I say no. An emphatic no. I say if the majority of the fans decide that Josh is the new American Idol then that's exactly what he is. He isn't breaking any of the rules that were established long before his participation in this contest. He isn't campaigning for votes. He attracts an underrepresented demographic on this show; the fact that he is a Marine and has a wife and kid and tends toward a country vibe is very comforting to a large part segment of the populace. No, it's not a segment that I'm part of but so be it. Whether or not Josh wins, does anyone believe he will sell more CDs or have a longer and more successful singing career than Ruben or Clay? I don't. So it hardly matters, really. I still believe that when all is said and done on this go around, talent will win out and the right person will win.   Top

PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 05-02-03, 06:15 AM (EST) 7. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" LAST EDITED ON 05-02-03 AT 06:18 AM (EST) Personally, I know it's not a talent contest. This is just another reality show for us to follow and the end result is a record contract (and from what I heard about Kelly's initial contract, not a very good one). MY point isn't to please the fans (that's pretty much impossible) so much as to ensure that the show producers get someone who will actually sell records. Being able to vote for 2 hours does nothing but give people with nothing better to do something to do. It's just as AZLeo said, if I vote for 2 hours and vote like 200 times, I'm not going to buy 200 records, only one. But my votes will count more than someone who voted once who will also buy one album. That means that the person who will actually sell the most records might not be the American Idol. And you said that the person with the most fans will win and that's how it should be. Well this current system does not reflect who has the most fans, rather who has the most 'fanatic' fans who will sit and vote for the entire 2 hours. The person who wins will simply be the one with the most votes, not with the most fans. Last year, I think it ended up working out in the end (though I still think Tamyra would have had at least equal record sales - maybe more), but I don't know about this year. I don't see THAT many people going out to buy Ruben or Clay (one of which will probably win) because neither is as 'versatile' or 'genre neutral' as Kelly. This American Idol will, IMO, NOT have huge record sales like Kelly. Clay has an amazing voice, but his annunciation and lack of 'changing it up' would be, as Simon has said, far better suited for Broadway and (again as Simon said) really not suited for radio (which IS the point of the show as far as I see). Ruben, also with a wonderful voice is pretty much stuck in one genre, albeit a genre that has a HUGE fanbase (myself included). He would probably have more success only because there is a history of success for male R&B singers (regardless of versatility) with good voices. Clay is just so NOT pop-style. I personally LOVE his voice, but I wouldn't buy a pop album of his because he is NOT pop. R&B is considered pop (because it's what's popular today) and I think A Ruben album would be better received by the general public than a Clay album, but still neither would have the overall appeal as someone like Kelly who proved that she can sing just about anything (she and Tamyra both) and do it well. Kimberley Locke is my personal favorite this season (always has been as a mater of fact) but I don't see flocks of being running out to buy her CD (altos are rarely successful in the pop world, with few exceptions). Josh, well we just won't even go there. He actually might have more record sales than I'd imagine for the sheer fact of him being a marine and all the supposed patriotism - "look I am patriotic and support the troops, I bought Josh's album "(LOL) that goes along with buying his album. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that I don't at all think this IS a talent contest (too bad it's not, we might actually have some decent artists coming on the scene). This is about money and I just don't see how the current system is reflective of the actual market. That is all.   Top

carencey 263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-05-03, 02:52 PM (EST) 8. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" I saw an interesting proposal elsewhere, but I'm not sure it would be simple enough to actually be executed. Leave the preliminary rounds the same, audiences vote for their favorites. Once you get to the finals, one call per number and you rank the contestants from first to last. AI could publish little 'rank sheets' in TV guide or they could give codes for the contestant at the beginning of the call. Something like 'Please enter the two digit code of the contestant you would like to rank in first place followed by the pound sign.' 'You have selected contestant 08-Clay Aiken. If this is correct, press 1'. The contestants then get points on a sliding scale--more points for top votes, fewer for lower placements. This is more complicated than voting for either the fave or the worst, but it hits a happy medium between the two. It would also lend itself to online voting rather than text messaging. Can you tell I've spent too much time on hold lately??   Top

ShowMeTheWinner 962 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 05-05-03, 04:26 PM (EST) 9. "RE: How to solve AI's problem (2 very simple solutions)" LAST EDITED ON 05-05-03 AT 05:26 PM (EST) Last year, I think it ended up working out in the end (though I still think Tamyra would have had at least equal record sales - maybe more), but I don't know about this year. I don't see THAT many people going out to buy Ruben or Clay (one of which will probably win) because neither is as 'versatile' or 'genre neutral' as Kelly. This American Idol will, IMO, NOT have huge record sales like Kelly. Clay has an amazing voice, but his annunciation and lack of 'changing it up' would be, as Simon has said, far better suited for Broadway and (again as Simon said) really not suited for radio (which IS the point of the show as far as I see). Ruben, also with a wonderful voice is pretty much stuck in one genre, albeit a genre that has a HUGE fanbase (myself included). He would probably have more success only because there is a history of success for male R&B singers (regardless of versatility) with good voices. Clay is just so NOT pop-style. I personally LOVE his voice, but I wouldn't buy a pop album of his because he is NOT pop. R&B is considered pop (because it's what's popular today) and I think A Ruben album would be better received by the general public than a Clay album, but still neither would have the overall appeal as someone like Kelly who proved that she can sing just about anything (she and Tamyra both) and do it well. Sorry for pasting so much of your post but I must say, I COMPLETELY agree with you. I love Clay's voice but I don't think I'll buy his album because I don't think his voice is suited for the pop genre. Maybe the older style of 1960s/1970s pop but definitely not the modern 21st-century style of pop. Amongst the final 5, I'd buy Clay's album second last (the last being Josh, of course. I would use it as a door-stopper / coaster even if it's free). AZ Leo said, "One person voting 100 times will still only buy 1 CD but 100 people each voting once would be more likely to equal 100 CD's. Sure, you wouldn't get over 20 million votes cast but you may get people voting who don't now." I don't quite agree with this statement though. I think we have to take the "probability of a person buying a record" factor into account. In my opinion, a person who voted 100 times in 2 hours is much more fanatical in supporting his/her idol and is therefore much more likely to purchase a record sung by his/her idol than another person who voted 1 time in 2 hours. The person who voted 1 time is most probably a casual viewer who is less fanatical about any one idol. Therefore, he/she is less likely to buy an album just because the person whom he/she voted for once a few months ago has an album due. Let's take a less extreme example than the one that had been given above. Let's say that Clay has 10,000 fanatic supporters who call in 100 times every show and 500,000 casual fans who call in 1 time every show. (10,000 X 100) + (500,000 X 1) = 1.5 million votes. And let's say Ruben has 9,000 fanatic supporters who call in 100 times every show and 620,000 casual fans who call in 1 time every show. (9,000 X 100) + (620,000 X 1) = 1.52 million votes. Ruben wins the show, but it doesn't always translate that his album will sell better than Clay's because Clay will have a lock on selling 1,000 more albums to his fanatic fans than Ruben may have a lock in selling 1,000 more albums to his extra 120,000 casual fans. In a less mathematical sense, we can also assume two different groups of people who go to a record store to buy some records. One is the fanatic fan and the other is the casual fan. The moment they enter a record store, there will be thousands of records competing for the limited consumers' dollars. How likely will the casual fan change his initial purchasing plan of buying his idols' album in comparison with the fanatical fan? I won't buy Kelly's album if I see any other records that interest me, but missing Tamyra's debut album? Over my dead body. Kathy O'Brien... The Sole Survivor! (I'd rather be delusional)   Top

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