The Amazing Race   American Idol   The Apprentice   The Bachelor   The Bachelorette   Big Brother   The Biggest Loser
Dancing with the Stars   So You Think You Can Dance   Survivor   Top Model   The Voice   The X Factor       Reality TV World
   
Reality TV World Message Board Forums
PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats, but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are encouraged to read the complete guidelines. As entertainment critic Roger Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
"A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Archived thread - Read only 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Conferences Off-Topic Forum (Protected)
Original message

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-07-04, 08:13 PM (EST)
Click to EMail AyaK Click to send private message to AyaK Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
"A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
LAST EDITED ON 10-07-04 AT 08:17 PM (EST)

Geez, doesn't the guy even pay attention? Apparently he's the last person on the planet who hasn't realized that our problems are now concentrated in the Sunni areas, instead of all over after our boneheaded Fallujah blunder.

Or perhaps he figures that if the "big lie" strategy worked on the draft, it will work again with regard to Iraq. No, wait, to figure a strategy would be far beyond Kerry's capabilities.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/0,1299,DRMN_36_3236995,00.html

Democratic Sen. John Kerry said today that President Bush and Vice President ##### Cheney have failed to recognize a deteriorating situation in postwar Iraq and "may well be the last two people on the planet who won't face the truth."

In his strongest statement yet, the Democratic presidential nominee suggested that if Bush fails to recognize the severity of problems in Iraq, then if Kerry takes office in January he will face a situation as chaotic as the Middle East in the early 1980s.

"If the president just does more of the same every day and it continues to deteriorate, I may be handed Lebanon, figuratively speaking," Kerry told reporters at a brief news conference.

This is, simply, breathtakingly stupid, considering recent trends (especially since al-Sistani forced al-Sadr to withdraw from Najaf and the locals found the bodies his troops left behind) have been favorable everywhere but in the Fallujah area. It's so stupid that it probably takes away brainpower from anyone within hearing range.

It's also so stupid that to defend against it risks imbuing it with credibility, in the same way that the "draft-is-imminent" stories gained undeserved credibility from the denials of it. If I believed Kerry was smart enough, I'd say that this was his plan -- but that would require believing that he was smart enough to make such a devious plan.

If the storm off Massachusetts was "a perfect storm," as in the book and movie title, then Kerry is "a perfect idiot."

<I'd like to add -- for mrc's benefit -- that it isn't unprecedented in U.S. history to have a string of idiots as President when the country is evenly divided on some issue, like ... slavery, for example. I defy anyone to find a president of distinction among the presidents following Martin van Buren (who may have led the country into the worst depression in history, but who was still widely respected). Those losers include William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James Polk (far and away the best of a bad lot, and actually a very good president ... but only a one-termer), Zachary Taylor, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce (a pro-slavery Northerner!) and the biggest idiot of all, James Buchanan. So Kerry has a chance. >

  Top

  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... anotherkim 10-07-04 1
   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... seahorse 10-07-04 3
       RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... miamicatt 10-08-04 36
 RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... seahorse 10-07-04 2
 RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... TechNoir 10-07-04 4
   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... seahorse 10-07-04 5
 RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 6
   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 7
       RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 8
           RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 9
               RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 10
                   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 11
                       RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 12
                           RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 13
                               RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 14
                                   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 15
                                       RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 16
                                           RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 17
                                               RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 18
                                                   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 19
                                                       RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 20
                                                           RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 21
                                                               RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 22
                                                                   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 24
                                                                       RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Draco Malfoy 10-08-04 25
                                                                           RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... landruajm 10-08-04 26
   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Lasann 10-08-04 30
       Really mrc 10-08-04 34
 RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Ra_8secs 10-08-04 23
 Sort of agree mrc 10-08-04 27
 Ayak is the smartest poster on the ... Spanky68 10-08-04 28
 RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... Skiver 10-08-04 29
   RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry... SurvivaBear 10-08-04 31
       Agree AyaK 10-08-04 33
   Reply AyaK 10-08-04 32
       RE: Reply Skiver 10-08-04 35
 "Big lie" works for Kedwards AyaK 10-08-04 37
 OMMMMMMMMMMMMMM dabo 10-08-04 38

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-07-04, 08:32 PM (EST)
Click to EMail anotherkim Click to send private message to anotherkim Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
1. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
May I jsut remind you all, that I am a former member of the James K. Polk society?

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--I need to pay my dues....oooops.

  Top

seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-07-04, 10:00 PM (EST)
Click to EMail seahorse Click to send private message to seahorse Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
3. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Well Ayak did say he was the best of a bad lot.

  Top

miamicatt 9247 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 04:46 PM (EST)
Click to EMail miamicatt Click to send private message to miamicatt Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
36. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Sorta like Kim on OT, right?


Handcrafted at the stroke of midnight by RollDdice

  Top

seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-07-04, 09:59 PM (EST)
Click to EMail seahorse Click to send private message to seahorse Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
2. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
From day one Kerry has not been able to run on anything he has done in his 20+ years in the Senate. He can only run on trying to undermine Bush. We shall see if it works in a few weeks.

  Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-07-04, 10:05 PM (EST)
Click to EMail TechNoir Click to send private message to TechNoir Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
4. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I must admit that I never expected you to say that John Kerry is perfect



  Top

seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-07-04, 10:06 PM (EST)
Click to EMail seahorse Click to send private message to seahorse Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
5. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Lvoe your sense of humor, Tech.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:06 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
6. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
William Henry Harrison was Not. That. Bad.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:07 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
7. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I think dying after one month in office is pretty darned incompetent, myself.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:11 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
8. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
At least it wasn't from choking on a pretzel.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:11 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
9. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I just know that's code for something.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:13 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
10. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I have no idea what you're talking about.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:14 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
11. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
That's exactly what I'd expect The Man to say.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:15 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
12. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Who is this *man* you speak of?


Cue the black helicopters.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:16 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
13. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I will rise against your tyranny, oppressor.

You're freakin' me out, man.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:18 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
14. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I've freaked Landru out. My day is complete.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:19 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
15. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Noticing a pattern? Feeling an increase in...self-esteem?

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:20 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
16. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Who's playing who here?

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:21 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
17. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
My question precisely.

Refreshed yet?

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:25 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
18. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I think I'm just confused now.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:26 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
My day is complete.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:27 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Well, let's just call it a draw then.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:30 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
21. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Despite my strong impulse to crush you, I will magnanimously agree.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:33 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
22. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Are we supposed to hug here?

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:36 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
24. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Only if it makes the fascists think we're gay-married.

  Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:39 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Draco%20Malfoy Click to send private message to Draco%20Malfoy Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
25. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I'm in.


Loves tweaking the fascists.

  Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:41 AM (EST)
Click to EMail landruajm Click to send private message to landruajm Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
26. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I knew that was the common ground.

Sure. As long as we don't identify them.

  Top

Lasann 3616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

10-08-04, 01:35 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Lasann Click to send private message to Lasann Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
30. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Yea he was. He killed Tecumseh!
  Top

mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 03:20 PM (EST)
Click to EMail mrc Click to send private message to mrc Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
34. "Really"
Must we keep spreading this outlandish and partisan lie? Let the Whigs die!

A PhoenixMons(ter) Siggie

  Top

Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

10-08-04, 08:34 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Ra_8secs Click to send private message to Ra_8secs Click to view user profile Click to send message via ICQ Click to check IP address of the poster
23. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
Hear Hear
Here Here


  Top

mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:47 AM (EST)
Click to EMail mrc Click to send private message to mrc Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
27. "Sort of agree"
While MVB's successors were less-than-overwhelming when it came to dealing with the changes brought on by the market revolution, westward expansion, and slavery, I would have to argue with labeling Polk a loser. (My Tennessee roots are showing--I need to get them dyed.)

Polk's biggest failure was the Mexican-American War. It was an unpopular and partisan war, although we wouldn't know it now, and one that brought the nation closer to civil war by expanding the nation's boundaries and forcing Congress to deal with the issue of slavery in the western territories. However, we can know this was a bad war based only on hindsight. Had the slavery issue not led to war in 1861, we might likely rank Polk as being one of the greatest presidents, instead of merely near-great. Finally, he chose to be a one-termer, making the promise before he was elected in 1844.

I can't defend the rest. Taylor was Harrison with two extra years. Fillmore did seek compromise when civil war seemed at hand in 1850 but didn't do much else. Pierce was an idiot to choose men such as Jeff Davis for his cabinet. (Peter Wallner's new bio of him seems to liken him to Clinton, according to one article I read; go figure that one!). Buchanan, a long-serving statesman, was regarded as the best choice against the Republican Fremont's candidacy, which many southerners feared would bring about the abolition of slavery; and Fillmore's Know-Nothing nativist, anti-Catholic platform. (Ironically, when the Know-Nothings nominated Fillmore, he was visiting the pope!)

Having said all of that, these men were limited by their circumstances and restricted to working from the past, not cognizance of the future. They should have seen what was going to happen, but they were only human. I think the same applies in politics today.

A PhoenixMons(ter) Siggie

  Top

Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 09:41 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Spanky68 Click to send private message to Spanky68 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
28. "Ayak is the smartest poster on the board"
I was going to say all this, but now there is no need. Great work, big fella.

  Top

Skiver 1118 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

10-08-04, 12:55 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Skiver Click to send private message to Skiver Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
29. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
The assertion that Iraq is 'improving' is like saying that the deficit situation is 'improving' because the 2004 budget deficit is likely to be less than that 'forecasted' at the start of the year. (Of course the original forecast was inflated). Iraq is a huge mess, and it's that way because of two things that Bush did.

1. He invaded.
2. He went in with too few troops, having discarded and ignored all of the State Department's planning (the 'Future of Iraq' project, that among other things warned about the possibility of lawlessness and looting), and allowed Rumsfeld to gut the Army 'TPFDD' (a detailed deployment plan) for the Iraq operation - an unprecedented action by a secretary of defense.

There are of course many other stupid incompetancies that the Bush administration has visited on Iraq, but these are the core errors. Bush has to pay for those mistakes. Focussing on Kerry's possible misstatements is like working on a blocked air vent when the car's engine has seized.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

And President Bush's former advisor to Afghanistan has just said that the security situation in Afghanistan is worse now than it was a year ago.

  Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"

10-08-04, 01:49 PM (EST)
Click to EMail SurvivaBear Click to send private message to SurvivaBear Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
31. "RE: A Perfect Moron: The John Kerry Story"
I may be wrong, but I do not believe the venerable Ayak was saying Mr. Bush was bright. He was simply pointing out that, if you are looking at Mr. Kerry as the answer, your barking up the wrong dim bulb tree.


Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #4: A woman wearing clothes is like a man in the kitchen.

  Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 02:52 PM (EST)
Click to EMail AyaK Click to send private message to AyaK Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
33. "Agree"
I still wish that we could say that Bush was called away by affairs of state and let Cheney take over the remaining debates.

Bush: "Stop me before I kill *my chances* again!"

  Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 02:49 PM (EST)
Click to EMail AyaK Click to send private message to AyaK Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
32. "Reply"
LAST EDITED ON 10-08-04 AT 02:50 PM (EST)

Skiver, I disagree. Big surprise, right?

Iraq is a huge mess, and it's that way because of two things that Bush did.

1. He invaded.

I completely disagree with this. It's funny; I was in a work meeting yesterday where the subject turned to the Presidential race, and I was asked whether, knowing what we know today, I would have invaded. I answered yes, based on the fact that Saddam was openly claiming to defy the cease-fire from the end of the 1991 war -- and how could we know he was lying unless we actually enforced the violation? Even if our intelligence had told us that Saddam had zero WMD, we couldn't not react to his public defiance of the cease-fire.

The status quo in Iraq was completely unstable at the time of the Iraq War. Saddam was bribing French politicians, as we now know, and the French were simply not going to side with any action against Iraq. At the same time, Iraq was becoming a huge humanitarian crisis, which Saddam and his friends in the West were blaming on the U.S. sanctions (although the real root cause appears to be Saddam's siphoning of the Oil-for-Food profits). Even the U.N. officials who administered Oil-for-Food ... and who we now know were receiving kickbacks from Saddam ... were urging us to loosen the sanctions.

Proving that he had learned SOMETHING from the sad example of British PM/moron Neville Chamberlain, Bush refused. And, when Saddam refused to take actions to show that he intended to comply with the cease-fire from now on, Bush did the only thing you can do against a party that insists on ignoring its obligations under international agreements.

In this regard, I generally agree with Mickey Kaus (except for the parenthetical):

http://www.slate.com/id/2107823/

Kausfiles is Stupid! I don't understand things everyone else seems to understand! For example:

1) If a man says he has a gun, acts like he has a gun, and convinces everyone around him he has a gun, and starts waving it around and behaving recklessly, the police are justified in shooting him (even if it turns out later he just had a black bar of soap). Similarly, according to the Duelfer report, Saddam seems to have intentionally convinced other countries, and his own generals, that he had WMDs. He also convinced much of the U.S. government. If we reacted accordingly and he turns out not to have had WMDs, whose fault is that? Why doesn't Bush make that argument--talking about Saddam's actions in the years before the U.S. invasion instead of Saddam's "intent" to have WMDs at some point in the future? (It wouldn't necessarily make the Iraq war prudent, but it would make Americans feel more comfortable about it than what Bush has been telling them.)

I must admit that I love how Kerry insists that we sign more international agreements without even wanting to enforce the existing ones. I guess Kerry thinks (IF he thinks) that international law is only binding on the U.S.

2. He went in with too few troops, having discarded and ignored all of the State Department's planning (the 'Future of Iraq' project, that among other things warned about the possibility of lawlessness and looting), and allowed Rumsfeld to gut the Army 'TPFDD' (a detailed deployment plan) for the Iraq operation - an unprecedented action by a secretary of defense.

Well, the justification for this was that we were going to use Iraqi troops once we won the war. But that decision became a major screw-up when Dumbos Bremer and Wolfowitz canceled the plans on their own ... and you know what followed. See this article from November 2003, when it was already obvious that Bremer and Wolfowitz had screwed up:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A63423-2003Nov19?language=printer

Before the war, President Bush approved a plan that would have put several hundred thousand Iraqi soldiers on the U.S. payroll and kept them available to provide security, repair roads and prepare for unforeseen postwar tasks. But that project was stopped abruptly in late May by L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, who ordered the demobilization of Iraq's entire army, including largely apolitical conscripts....

As Garner was developing the policy amid the unexpected lawlessness in Baghdad, the White House replaced him with Bremer, a terrorism specialist with high-level State Department experience. He arrived May 12 with a mandate from Bush to take firm control of the U.S. occupation.

By that time, the prewar intelligence had proved inaccurate. No Iraqi units changed sides, and the number of surrendering forces was small. Iraqis had sacked Army garrisons, and entire divisions had melted away.

Bremer soon declared in internal meetings that no Iraqi units would be reconstituted and that soldiers would not be paid. On May 23, he issued a formal order that dismissed the army and canceled pensions. The order covered many categories of Iraqis, among them war widows and disabled veterans who were senior party members, defined as any officers at the rank of colonel or above.

U.S. officials in Baghdad, including Garner and Bates, were startled.

"It came with formidable force and decisiveness, as the president's policy. Nobody was supposed to challenge it and that was that," said one U.S. official in Baghdad at the time. Another said: "There was never a discussion that I was involved in where we would disband the military. It caught me completely by surprise."

The second official, recalling violent crime in the Iraqi capital, said Iraqi commanders had offered to gather soldiers, who would be paid for their work. The Americans could easily have pulled together "a couple of thousand military police in the Baghdad region," he said. "Many of the soldiers had taken their weapons home. Some had armored vehicles."

The demobilization decision appears to have originated largely with Walter B. Slocombe, a former undersecretary of defense appointed to oversee Iraqi security forces. He believed strongly in the need to disband the army and felt that vanquished soldiers should not expect to be paid a continuing salary. He said he developed the policy in discussions with Bremer, Feith and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz.

Bremer and Wolfowitz also made the other major blunder of the war: stopping the Marines' attack on Fallujah. So it's certainly possible to argue that Wolfowitz should already have been sacked. I certainly won't dispute that we needed either more troops or loyal Iraqi troops during the post-invasion period.

However, is Iraq a "huge mess"? It happens to be one of only three (or maybe four) countries in the Middle East that isn't controlled by a government dedicated to the destruction of Israel (the others: Israel, Afghanistan, and maybe Pakistan). Now that the al-Sadr problem appears to have been resolved, the focus can stay on the Sunni.

Oh, and Afghanistan is holding elections this weekend, despite the ongoing efforts of the Taliban remnants and al-Qaeda to stop them:

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=599525§ion=news

The tanker truck would have made a big boom --- but it seems to have been averted. And look at what the residents are quoted by Reuters (certainly not a friendly source) as saying:

"Yes, security is a concern," said an elderly man with a trim salt-and-pepper beard as he shopped in a Kabul bazaar. "But this will be a great day. I will vote. I'm optimistic that an elected government can improve people's lives."...

As worshippers thronged Kabul's mosques for weekly prayers on Friday, much of the talk was about the poll.

"The majority of the people will vote," said Zabihullah Jawad, a university student who was at the Pul-i Khishti Mosque, the largest in the city.

"The election will not only make the destiny of one man, it is important for every individual Afghan. It will make the destiny of each one of them."

The preacher said in the sermon: "Be happy tomorrow, it is a very important moment for Afghanistan. It is important to vote."

More than 10.5 million Afghans within the country have registered to vote, despite threatened Taliban reprisals. Women make up more than 40 percent of those who have registered, organisers say. An additional 1.3 million refugees in Pakistan and Iran are also eligible.

Late on Friday, a Kabul mobile phone company sent a text message to all its subscribers: "One day till election day. Remember to cast your vote. For a better tomorrow."

But, Skiver, you, shakes and Kedwards do have people rooting for your side in Afghanistan:

In the south, a hotbed of Islamic conservatism, some men said they would not vote nor allow their wives and daughters to vote.

"We are against these elections," said Mullah Hassan, speaking at his home in the city of Kandahar.

"I never wanted to take part in it. A successful election here is just a success for the Americans."...

"Whichever government is made by the Americans for us, it will be unacceptable," Mullah Obaidullah, the former defence minister of the Taliban regime, said in a statement.

"The Americans have insulted our autonomy, independence and dignity (and) unjustly invaded our frontiers. We will retaliate to this insulting attitude and treatment with full force."

  Top

Skiver 1118 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

10-08-04, 04:37 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Skiver Click to send private message to Skiver Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
35. "RE: Reply"
Hi, Ayak,


On point one. The invasion of Iraq was a mistake, pure and simple. To continue the analogy, it was like shooting the guy who claims that his bar of soap is a gun when he's been subdued and is being frisked.
On point 2. Whose nitwit idea was it that the Iraqi army could maintain order in the days after its defeat? That sure wasn't in any of the State Department plans, and wasn't part of any Pentagon plans, surely. I've never heard it mentioned before. That kind of on-the-cheap craziness can only have come from the neo-cons. And Bremner was acting under administration orders when he disbanded the Iraqi army - at least six weeks after the fall of Baghdad, when the damage was already done. Bush has responsibility for the people under him if they screwed up in making that order. Either he knows what they were doing and condoned it - if he didn't order it - or he didn't know, in which case he's simply criminally clueless. But as a bonus, all those incompetents get removed along with Bush when he gets voted out.

As someone who was against the invasion from the start, and never thought that Iraq had WMDs (because they couldn't be found) it is clear to me that Bush rushed the invasion of Iraq because he feared the WMD pretext was about to crumble. He cut off the UN arms inspections before they had a chance to complete their work - after Hans Blix had testified on Feb 14th 2003 to the U.N. that Iraq was fully complying with the inspectors - as more and more of the sites the CIA pointed them towards turned out to be empty of any incriminating materials. Meanwhile, Bush and the chickenhawks - including most notably Douglas Feith's own little intelligence group that was swallowing 'curveball' hook, line, and lake - applied pressure to the intelligence community to get the conclusions they wanted, and then cherry-picked those to pass on to the public. So we had the smoking gun = mushroom cloud statements, and Cheney's statements about Mohammed Atta and his meeting in Prague with a member of the Iraqi intelligence service, the yellowcake statements, and the aluminium tube allegations - all subject to disagreements within the intelligence community.

Back to the reckless disregard of planning for after the war. Here is a quote from James Fallow's article in The Atlantic magazine of Jan / Feb this year. It is from 'Council on Foreign Relations' report of January 2003: "U.S. and coalition military units will need to pivot quickly from combat to peacekeeping operations in order to prevent post-conflict Iraq from descending into anarchy... Without an initial and broad-based commitment to law and order, the logic of score-settling and revenge-taking will reduce Iraq to chaos." On January 30 2003, the International Rescue Committe warned that a breakdown of law and order was likely unless victorious U.S. forced acted immediately to prevent it - with martial law, if necessary. Refugees International issued a similar warning a week later.

But the U.S. never had enough troops to enforce law and order - not that they tried very hard. As far as Bremner is concerned, he said recently - as I'm sure you know - that he begged for more American troops, but was rebuffed by his superiors. Bush has responsibility for that, too.


On Aghanistan, an article in this week's Newsweek came to the conclusion that few women outside of Kabul would vote, because their husbands would not let them. The article said that the men allowed their women to register to vote only because of the mistaken belief that voting cards could be used to get food rations.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

"Fool me once, shame on... Shame on you. Fool me twice... Can't get fooled again." - GW Bush

  Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 04:47 PM (EST)
Click to EMail AyaK Click to send private message to AyaK Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
37. ""Big lie" works for Kedwards"
Joe Goebbels would be so proud of Kedwards today.....

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/9870049.htm

In spite of denials by the Bush administration, half of young Americans believe President Bush wants to reinstate the military draft, a national poll suggests.

The National Annenberg Election Survey found that 51 percent of adults age 18 to 29 believe Bush wants to reinstate the draft. Eight percent said Kerry supports bring back the draft, and 7 percent said both want to. A fourth of those polled said neither candidate favors the idea.

Both Bush and Kerry say they don't support a renewed military draft. Earlier this week, the House defeated a bill paving the way to a draft 402-2. House Republicans have sought to quash the persistent Internet rumor that the president wants to reinstate the draft if re-elected while Democrats have fanned the flames on the rumor.

"Young voters are much more misinformed about the presidential candidates' positions on the draft than the population in general," said Kate Kenski, an analyst at the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center.

  Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

10-08-04, 08:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail dabo Click to send private message to dabo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
38. "OMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"
AyaK said #####, I'm tellin'!


  Top


Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
about this site   •   advertise on this site  •   contact us  •   privacy policy   •