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blue_islander 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 02:31 AM (EST) "Cry or Learn?" The fact is that reality is harsh. It is ironic that so many people are angry because they vicariously identified with Adam and were so frustrated by Melana’s seemingly unreasonable choice. Well, think what it must be like to be Adam- or Dennis, or Craig, or any of the millions of guys like them. Your TV show is their reality. We can gripe about it, and complain about how “unfair” it is, etc, but it does not change anything. It probably will not even change your interactions with people for very long. So, average people- stop crying about it. If you really are intelligent and deep, then sit in front of these TV shows with a pad and pencil and take notes. Learn. Cocky is good. Forget what your mom said. Nice is bad. Who had the better chance, Dennis or Zach? Are you willing to do what it takes to be a winner, or are you just content to feel justified about being a loser? Yeah, I hate it, but it is true. On the other hand, if you don’t have the intestinal fortitude to do what it takes, maybe you deserve what you get. Do you remember her asking Jason if he was gay? He still won. Do you remember her calling him stupid? He still won. Of Zach and Adam and Jason, who seemed to “open up” more? Who told her his feelings the least? Who won?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Cry or Learn? DaUnfan 12-09-03 1    RE: Cry or Learn? blue_islander 12-09-03 2        RE: Cry or Learn? DaUnfan 12-09-03 4            RE: Cry or Learn? ego 12-09-03 5            RE: Cry or Learn? blue_islander 12-09-03 6                RE: Cry or Learn? Chris 12-09-03 7                RE: Cry or Learn? ego 12-09-03 8                RE: Cry or Learn? DaUnfan 12-09-03 9        RE: Cry or Learn? JustMe2001M 12-09-03 11  RE: Cry or Learn? Conan O Bryan 12-09-03 3  RE: Cry or Learn? CyberCooties 12-09-03 10  RE: Cry or Learn? Wacko Jacko 12-09-03 12  RE: Cry or Learn? Buratino 12-09-03 13

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DaUnfan 43 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-09-03, 02:43 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Cry or Learn?" True or not, is it better that way? The whole point was hope. There seems to be a lot of women complaining that Melena made a poor choice. It could be more of them than "average men" complaining that this is always how it goes. The problem is that we thought Melena was better than that. We HOPED she was above the looks. We HOPED she saw what happened to her in the fat suit - that she was the same person on the inside and was ignored almost completely - and realized that physical appearance is only temporary and does not define a person. All HOPE is lost   Top

blue_islander 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 03:19 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Cry or Learn?" "Better" by whose standards? Better as judged by idealistic story book "life according to Disney" standards? Hope was gone for that BEFORE this show. It just does NOT work that way. If this show would have kept that type of hope alive, it would have done us a terrible disservice. Cry, bury it, move on. One other thought-- I would also drop the self-defeating idea that "appearance does not define a person" because in a very real way, it does. To a great extent we choose how we appear by our clothes, our fitness, and our demeanor. Choose how you want to appear and then execute a plan. If you can not (or will not) do this, then it says something about the "real you".   Top

DaUnfan 43 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-09-03, 03:44 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Cry or Learn?" Better is better; it's an improvement. You can judge good and bad "by idealistic story book standards" but not "better". "Hope was gone<...>" is a very cynical outlook. If that gets you through the day, then you can choose to live that way. But keep in mind, good things happen to good people too. Appearance absolutely does not define a person. Of course we all make judgements about people by their appearance, but how often are we wrong about the judgements we make. I don't know about you, but I find myself reversing my opinions regularly. A professional looking man in an expensive suit can be a real asshole. The guy in the t-shirt and jeans may be the one who helps you push your broken down car off the road. The "real me" may very well be different from the one you SEE - once you get to know me...   Top

ego 100 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 03:53 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Cry or Learn?" "Choose how you want to appear and then execute a plan." reminds me of ted bundy. totally ot but he was nice looking and dressed well, and killed alot of women.   Top

blue_islander 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 04:08 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Cry or Learn?" Cynical? Perhaps. But I really think I am pragmatic. Don't get me wrong, I feel it. I hate that reality does this to Adams and Dennises. But taking about "should" and trying to cast the world into our notion of fair does nothing to address the fact that lions EAT lambs. Our world is Darwinian. The strong survive, flourish, and are happy. If you really want to help someone (including yourself) do not join them in hand-wringing about the unfairness of it all. Learn the game. Adapt, evolve. Take responsibility and teach them to do the same. The asshole in the suit gets the job and Melana. The nice guy in the T-shirt gets mud all over his jeans. Maybe Adam will find someone better. Maybe he will be more fulfilled in the long run. If not, maybe he will get what he really deserves in the afterlife. Maybe. We SO want the good to win we always make excuses when it does not. What we KNOW is that it was him sitting in the bus going home, and Jason with Melana.   Top

Chris 20 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 04:19 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Cry or Learn?" agreed   Top

ego 100 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 04:24 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Cry or Learn?" well we know one thing. adam has a very successful career. guess he just isn't all that successful with *certain* women. i highly doubt that that puts him at the bottom of the food chain.   Top

DaUnfan 43 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-09-03, 12:54 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Cry or Learn?" But it's not a matter of complaining about "the unfairness of it all." It's a matter of making good choices. Do we not point out when we see human error? That doesn't imply that we can prevent it, but can can learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others. There is no need to bring Darwin into this; we know that some lions eat some lambs. I saw no "strength" in Jason or Melena or her decision. It was basic instict at best. It could have been basic instinct for Adam to cold cock Jason when he got off the plane. But he didn't do it because it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. We should aspire to make decisions based on whether or not we believe they are right, not whether or not they give us instant, temporary gratification. I'd hire the nice guy in the t-shirt, laugh at the jerk (family friendly) with mud on his suit, and hope others would do the same. Not the perfect Christian way of life, but at least I would try to reserve judgement until I really know someone, rather than decide what he or she "deserves" based on his or her physical appearance.   Top

JustMe2001M 162 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 01:29 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Cry or Learn?" I think you have a point when you say "appearance does define a person", but I think's it's in the negative way. I've said before on this board (in one of my semi-serious messages) that Jason isn't really being belittled because of his looks. He is being belittle because of how he's used his looks. This same whine of "just cause he's pretty doesn't mean he's not deep" doesn't hold much substance if he's used his looks as his one and only asset. When someone does that, you can almost be assured that depth in character and personality will always be the loser. Isn't that what's frustrating so many people? That Jason and Melana kept trying to convince everyone that there was more under the surface if we just looked past the "prettiness"? Jason was on the show because of his prettiness and he was picked essentially for his prettiness and Melana stated he was pretty several times. How is that proving there's something deeper? We have a 27 year old, living at home with his parents, working as a waiter/model, going to school studying "business/accounting" who wants to be a weatherman named Jason Storm when he grows up. We see it, but Melana doesn't. Why? The only answer is they must be a reflection of each other. Their depth is different than those who've had to rely on other traits. Now, aside from that....who thought it was unfair the way that Adam kept rubbing it in to Jason by not shaving?   Top

Conan O Bryan 21 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 03:31 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Cry or Learn?" Wow! I'm thrilled...Jason "the boy who lives with his parents and has virtually no interests or hobbies" wins Melana "the woman who makes her living off her looks", a match made in heaven.   Top

CyberCooties 162 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 01:28 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Cry or Learn?" Adam was just too immature for Melana. Confident exchanging up to 1 million on a daily basis, but relatively clueless with women. Nice guy, sure, but he has to find someone he's compatible with. These shows don't reveal enough to judge how deep Jason's personality is. They tend to edit out personal conversations. I think he's Melana's best bet, but I don't think Melana is his best bet. Give it time because it wont last.... just ask Andrew and Jen.... and I say that like it's a good thing. See you in Hawaii! Lots of man boobs in that one, oh yeah!   Top

Wacko Jacko 2438 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 12-09-03, 02:15 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Cry or Learn?" Hey found a trend that Bebo didn't lock. Do I get a prize? What got me about Melena the most about last nights show was she was almost laughing when she was giving Adam his let down speech. Very cold. I wondered about her before especially that grin she gave when the 3 new guys entered the contest but the let down was even worse. And why did Jason have to come out of the plan and interrupt things? Like look at us we are the perfect couple see you nerd.   Top

Buratino 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-09-03, 02:38 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Cry or Learn?" There is a lesson to learn from that show. Here are some thoughts. 1) So-called “reality shows” are not really good reflections on real life since all of the participants have their reasons for being on the national TV (even good-natured Adam had some motives for trying to pick a date in front of the audience of millions and not in the real “anonymous” world). However, show might serve as a model of what might happen in real life. 2) What is the “right” outcome? Melena’s goal was to get an exposure not to get married – people with high level of attachment/ commitment actually were at disadvantage. Necessarily Melena was attracted to “dating” type of guys – Zack, Jason, “Joe Millionaire”. Jason level of commitment (i.e. let’s date and get to know each other) was much more to her liking than Adam’s almost proposing to her on the spot. 3) As far as actual attraction to certain men, Melena, like most women, is attracted by not just looks but by the level of confidence (i.e. Zack was not the Apollo, but he was the most confident of the Average Joe’s bunch). Adam was funny, but goofy guy with self-depreciating sense of humor that you want to have as your friend (he didn't initiate intimate contact - it was SHE who started kissing him most of the time). 4) All in all I would say that show’s outcome is not a “disappointment”, but an accurate reflection of what is the most probable in real life.   Top

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