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"Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
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mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-10, 05:57 PM (EST)
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"Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
In which a Seinfeldian ending will result in pikes and torches outside Darlton's homes.

This thread is for discussion of the episode once it airs on the Left Coast or for spoiler-free discussion prior to the episode. Please keep all spoilers in the designated thread.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... mrc 05-23-10 1
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... frodis 05-23-10 2
 Is it wrong... zombiebaby 05-23-10 3
   RE: Is it wrong... Snidget 05-23-10 4
       RE: Is it wrong... mysticwolf 05-23-10 5
           RE: Is it wrong... Snidget 05-23-10 6
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... batts 05-23-10 7
 *sniffle* moonbaby 05-23-10 8
   RE: *sniffle* Snidget 05-23-10 9
       whew moonbaby 05-23-10 10
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Tummy 05-23-10 11
   I'm with you Breezy 05-24-10 15
       RE: I'm with you HobbsofMI 05-24-10 17
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... zombiebaby 05-23-10 12
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... SurvivaBear 05-23-10 13
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... HobbsofMI 05-24-10 16
       The numbers Breezy 05-24-10 18
           RE: The numbers HobbsofMI 05-24-10 20
 "The End" worked. michel 05-24-10 14
   RE: "The End" worked. zombiebaby 05-24-10 27
       RE: "The End" worked. Breezy 05-24-10 30
       RE: "The End" worked. michel 05-24-10 38
           RE: "The End" worked. HobbsofMI 05-24-10 39
               RE: "The End" worked. michel 05-24-10 41
                   RE: "The End" worked. HobbsofMI 05-24-10 51
           They all are dead zombiebaby 05-24-10 40
       Jack and his son weltek 05-24-10 49
 Favorite line from the Aloha wrap u... Snidget 05-24-10 19
   Jimmy Kimmel was so fun moonbaby 05-24-10 46
       Newhart weltek 05-26-10 57
 I finally get it! true 05-24-10 21
   I believe in... Breezy 05-24-10 22
       RE: I believe in... true 05-24-10 24
           RE: I believe in... Tummy 05-24-10 31
   I love this zombiebaby 05-24-10 28
   RE: I finally get it! Outfrontgirl 05-26-10 59
       RE: I finally get it! true 05-27-10 62
           RE: I finally get it! Outfrontgirl 05-27-10 63
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... blacknwhitedog 05-24-10 23
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... mrc 05-24-10 25
   Vincent! moonbaby 05-24-10 47
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... mrc 05-26-10 58
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Tummy 05-24-10 26
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... dabo 05-24-10 33
       RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Tummy 05-24-10 35
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... warp_core breach 05-24-10 29
 Just wanted to say Tummy 05-24-10 32
   RE: Just wanted to say zombiebaby 05-24-10 34
   RE: Just wanted to say dabo 05-24-10 36
 The Devil's tool michel 05-24-10 37
 End credit scenes blacknwhitedog 05-24-10 42
 Loved it. frodis 05-24-10 43
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... blacknwhitedog 05-24-10 44
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... weltek 05-24-10 48
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Max Headroom 05-24-10 45
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Das Mole 05-24-10 50
 RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... batts 05-24-10 52
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... zombiebaby 05-24-10 54
       RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... batts 05-25-10 56
   RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Tummy 05-27-10 60
       RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... Outfrontgirl 05-27-10 61
           RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... dabo 05-28-10 64
               RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18... trigirl 05-28-10 65
 More podcast fun. Estee 05-24-10 53
 Now I can tell you moonbaby 05-24-10 55

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mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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05-23-10, 04:12 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
We're DVRing the finale and watching it after the pint-sizers go to bed. See ya tomorrow, brutha!

You've been hotpocketed!

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05-23-10, 05:41 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
We are doing the same.

We're also having a LOST-inspired dinner where everything is being prepared two different ways (parallel universe dinner!) and I bought Tim Tams (which are Australian) to munch on while watching the finale.

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05-23-10, 07:13 PM (EST)
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3. "Is it wrong..."
That I'm tearing up a bit just during the retrospective? Gonna be a long, sad night!

Am I the only geek that actually took off tomorrow just cause the finale? I intend to watch JKL too. I have not been up past 11 in a long time!

I hope Gus the monkey stops by tomorrow.

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05-23-10, 07:35 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Is it wrong..."
Tearing up during the retrospective...of course I'm not tearing *sniff* up at all.

*hides kleenex under the chair*

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05-23-10, 09:55 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Is it wrong..."
Sheesh. After missing the last 2 seasons thanks to a misaligned TV antennae I stop by to find out how it all ends and all I find are people who either aren't watching or are too busy crying to post anything. Pffft.
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-23-10, 09:56 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Is it wrong..."
I am laughing over the Lost-themed Target commercials if that helps.
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05-23-10, 10:07 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Figured I'd check in since this is the last episode....
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05-23-10, 10:31 PM (EST)
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8. "*sniffle*"
Just had to check in and say: quite the emotional roller coaster. I'm exhausted.
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-23-10, 10:38 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: *sniffle*"
And we still got almost an hour left to go.
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05-23-10, 11:36 PM (EST)
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10. "whew"
I'm wiped out. I might have to stay home from work tomorrow

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05-23-10, 11:50 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Seriously?!
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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-10, 07:58 AM (EST)
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15. "I'm with you"
Seriously?

I think they should have ended it at Jack remembering. The end.

I loved the whole finale until the very end. Went to bed cranky. Didn't they say early on that they Losties were NOT dead?

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05-24-10, 08:09 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: I'm with you"
They weren't until the "sideways".


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05-23-10, 11:57 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
I for one loved it and thought it was satisfying. Sure some things don't make sense but it will still leave room for plenty of more discussions.

Loved it.

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05-23-10, 11:58 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
What was that ending all about? I thought I understood right up until the last part!


Beware the Bear

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05-24-10, 08:08 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-10 AT 08:08 AM (EST)

When Jack's dad said, yes, he was dead and those in the other room died before and after him and they built this place so they could find each other that is when I go it. The whole sideways was everyone trying to find peace to move on. Ben was not ready, I think it was Alex that was stopping him. Loved that Hugo said you were a great No. 2 thus telling us a long time had pass and it made sense when Desmond said Ana Lucia was not ready yet.

But I want to know why the island was sunk? Who took over after Hugo or since they all were dead the island did not matter any more. The numbers? Michelle and the others still wondering around the island as lost soles even though it's at the bottom of the sea because Ana Lucia's out there.

Overall it was just like the 1st show. It made you think and it's open to interpretation. I'll be one of the first in line to buy the whole Blue-Ray DVD set in Aug.


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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-10, 08:12 AM (EST)
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18. "The numbers"
During the 2 hour review thingie, I think they explained that the numbers were just Easter eggs. Things to taunt us and to add a dimension to Hurley's character.
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05-24-10, 08:23 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: The numbers"
I must have missed that. Thanks.


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-10, 02:00 AM (EST)
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14. ""The End" worked."
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-10 AT 02:02 AM (EST)

I think I'm happy with the ending. Emotionally, it delivered, that's for sure. I loved the ending coming full circle with Jack closing his eyes after Vincent found him in the bamboo field. That was perfect.

I also think that we got all the answers that the characters figured out. That reminded me of what I liked most of the first few seasons: We were really connected to the main characters because we were as lost as they were, we only knew what they knew. Then, slowly, some went in different directions and we started being disconnected from them. That's why the middle seasons weren't as great. In the end, I wanted to know about Walt, why women couldn't have babies, what was at the center of the island to give it and Jacob all those powers but then the characters themselves never learned every mystery of the island. The goal was to get off the island and to kill Smokey. The finale reconnected us to the characters.

Some questions really don't need to be answered: Why Walt and Miles weren't in the church? Maybe they were still alive when Jack entered the church. Why were Walt's power not explained? Aside from the real life logistics, we were told that Walt wasn't what was expected, therefore, he wasn't Jacob's candidate. His story ended a long time ago even if we weren't ready to see it that way.

To tell the truth, I was very worried that the Island would all be a dream and that everyone would end up living happily ever after in sideways world. That would have been the Dallas Shower scene equivalent. So, in the end, Sideways world happens sometimes in the future, well after Jack died, well after Kate, Sawyer and the others left the island and made it safely home, lived their lives and died.

The only trouble I have really is Jack's son. The only thing I can figure is that Jack needed to see what kind of father he would be in order to come to terms with his own father which was the main thing that prevented him from letting go. Once he realized that he was more like his father that he knew but was still able to be a good dad, he made his peace and started on his way to letting go, seeing the light.

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05-24-10, 09:27 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: "The End" worked."
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-10 AT 09:37 AM (EST)

I agree Michel. Jack's son bothered me too. The only thing I can think of is that Jack kind of "created" him to help himself work through his problems which is what I think you said as well.

As for Micheal and Walt well maybe they were not a part of Jack's heaven? Christian said these were the people that helped Jack during that time on the island which Jack felt was his greatest test. At first I could not understand Hawking with Desmond in this episode but I think she was concerned about him taking Daniel away from her little piece of heaven. Kind of explains also why Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Lapidus were not in the church as well. This was Jack's story basically and who he needed to help him move on.

I loved the flashes in the sideways world. Never thought I was a romantic but apparently I am. Cried at every single one of them. Loved the island story. Thought it moved at a breakneck speed. Still a little unsure though of what Ben, Locke and Jack were doing with Desmond. Why did they lower him in the first place? I even liked Kate in this episode. Loved her realization that Jack was not leaving.

I also think that yes a lot is unanswered and it leaves me hopeful for other stories from the island.

Edited to add: Just read a spoiler on Dark UFO that they were trying to put out the light because it would make Flocke mortal so they can kill him. They did but had to restart the light so the island would stop sinking. I still don't understand why Flocke was going along with it? So the island would sink? Did he not know he would be mortal?

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05-24-10, 09:47 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: "The End" worked."
Flocke thought if Desmond put out the light he would be able to leave the island.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-10, 11:24 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: "The End" worked."
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-10 AT 11:29 AM (EST)


For Micheal and Locke, read my "devil's tool" post below. For Walt, maybe he wasn't dead when Jack's soul finally made it to the church. More likely, now that I think about it, this "church" was for the people that had shared the island as the most important part of their lives. Walt had been only on the island for a few months as a child so there had to be more important things in his life later. He'd find his own "church".

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05-24-10, 12:06 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: "The End" worked."
If Hugo was there then it had to be way in the future is my thought because Hugo was the new Jacob and with the light back on immortal and I would get gave that to Ben too. I was surprised Richard was not there.


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05-24-10, 12:16 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: "The End" worked."
But, with time travel on the island, Hugo could have spent a 1000 years guarding the light and still made it in time for the week-end service.
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05-24-10, 04:52 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: "The End" worked."
And Jack's dad said there is no NOW here. So maybe Jack was troubled all that time and finally found the way to let go.


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05-24-10, 12:15 PM (EST)
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40. "They all are dead"
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-10 AT 12:17 PM (EST)

Christian said "everybody dies sometimes". There was no past, present or future in the holding area. Some we saw die, others we did not. All were dead though including Walt, Aaron, Hurley, Ben.

Hurely was not immortal. He could die just like Jacob and Jack could. They could live a long time though. To me it was implied that Hurley/ben stayed on the island for a long time in the scene outside the church but they did die.

Edited because this was supposed to go under Hobbes post, not Michel's.

Also Richard probably did not choose to be in that "church" much like Ben and the others that were not there. He probably was meant to be with Isabella.

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05-24-10, 03:21 PM (EST)
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49. "Jack and his son"
I felt like he had to prove to himself he could be a better father than his father was to him. It's something that maybe was weighing heavily on his mind.


-A Tribetastic Creation

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05-24-10, 08:21 AM (EST)
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19. "Favorite line from the Aloha wrap up "
so far

Michael--That was when I knew I was in a comedy....

and no one else was.

(about the did the rabbit he was being served have a number on it line)

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05-24-10, 02:24 PM (EST)
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46. "Jimmy Kimmel was so fun"
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-10 AT 02:27 PM (EST)

after being emotionally wrung out. I'm sad for them, they probably got close working together for so long. Josh Holloway's scene was hilarious and the alternate endings were good.

I wanted to stay up for the Q&A but I really DID have to work today.

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05-26-10, 09:31 AM (EST)
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57. "Newhart"
Who else was surprised they didn't have Kate make out with Bob?


-A Tribetastic Creation

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05-24-10, 08:30 AM (EST)
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21. "I finally get it!"
The whole thing was a big love story. Everyone who found love on the island reunited for an eternity of happiness, and the rest can be explained in two words...duct tape.

When Frank handed Miles the duct tape to fix the plane, he was handing him the cover for all those mysterious plot holes. As soon as I saw that hysterical scene, I was able to let go of all the strange, unexplainable mysteries and enjoy Lost for what it really was meant to be...

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05-24-10, 08:53 AM (EST)
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22. "I believe in..."
duct tape.
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05-24-10, 09:03 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: I believe in..."
Yep, when they fixed a crash landed plane with duct tape, I suspended all remaining disbelief, and just enjoyed the characters. I suppose you could say I've moved on to a Lost happy place, and am no longer fixated on stuff that just didn't matter in the end.

Typically, I don't like sci-fi stories. I've never even seen Star Wars or Star Trek. Watching that stuff, for me, is like watching an unbelievable foreign film without subtitles. Yoda? Really.

Anyway, I figure the reason I loved Lost was because the writing and characters always felt real, even when the stories couldn't be explained logically. I could probably find a bazillion plot holes in something like Star Wars, but that wouldn't matter to the people who love those characters.

Once the duct tape came out, I gave up wanting answers for the unexplained. I realized that those things didn't really matter in the end.

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05-24-10, 10:01 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: I believe in..."
I'm going to stick to true like duct tape.

I don't think this was the best series finale by far but I'll give it up as I'm at least glad there was a series finale and the show wasn't just cancelled. So I'm accepting what we were given and wrapping the rest up with true's duct taping and tossing it. I'll live with the satisfaction that there was at least an ending.

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28. "I love this"
Brilliant observation! Never even picked up on it!
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59. "RE: I finally get it!"
I had made a post the day before the Finale saying that with a little metaphorical duct tape and WD40 they could fix anything wrong with the LOST universe.

So when they literally whipped out the duct tape I was ROFL.

I don't read contemporary Sci-Fi, but when I was young I read almost all the classic Sci-Fi written between the 40's and the mid 60's. Great stuff. So I've read a lot of classic time travel stories, and the time travel didn't bother me.

The happy departure lounge ending, blech. Sappy. Hated the idea that Hurley who died whenever had been hanging around waiting for someone who died long before him to figure out he was dead. In 2004 LA. Stupid stupid illogical idea of afterlife limbo.

Jack dying, that was emotional for me, and for some reason, the Sawyer Juliet reunion got me.

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05-27-10, 08:33 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: I finally get it!"
So when they literally whipped out the duct tape I was ROFL.

Me too! They just had to intend that to be comedy. I knew to give up hope for answers as soon as I saw that damn tape.

I'm still trying to hold on to my happy place ending, but I can certainly see how fans who spent so much time and emotion trying to figure out all those clues would be less than thrilled.

What bugs me is that I feel TPTB kept promising that they would answer stuff, and in the end, the did not. Really, what was the point of putting all those crazy things in there, just to brush them off as nothing?!?

I'm really trying not to think about it, and just cover my annoyance with a little duct tape.

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05-27-10, 08:54 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: I finally get it!"
I'm with you, true.

My personal way of dealing with it is to talk out my issues and that doesn't ruin it for me. That's how I come to terms. Well that and I admit I drank 3/4 of a bottle of wine getting through the Finale. More than I would normally, but I've found it helpful to get through Survivor Finales and I knew LOST would be requiring a dumbing down of my critical faculties.

I truly enjoyed the Finale action until the departure limbo lounge scene, but I was disappointed in the way Smocke went out. Very low key. And everyone thought Desmond was a failsafe, and he wasn't exactly very much at all, in fact what he did had to be undid.

(I understand it made Smocke mortal so he could be killed, but still.)

Speaking of Flocke / Smocke /UnLocke - he never had a real body of John Locke. It was made reasonably clear that his body was an apparition when we saw the real John Locke corpse. MIB whined about losing his body. Christian flitted around like an apparition. Bullets go through him like he's made of air.

Then suddenly, they give us the scene where he feels the earth under his feet. That makes us think of him as solid. He can slit throats -- so he can wield a knife. He eats.

Point being, there was no body there to become mortal. If unplugging makes the smoke monster inoperable, what is left? Why is there something that Kate can kill by putting a bullet in the right place; he was never flesh and blood, and I'm pretty sure that bullets work by making people bleed to death.

Oh wait, true, could you pass the duct tape?

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23. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
well they wrapped it up in a nice bow at the end- it was somewhat satisfying to see everyone happy in the church- BUT

I thought it was said they were not dead and not in purgatory (sp?)- and true they weren't while on the island- but they were in the flash sideways- I thought it was kind of a cop out

and see- MIB was evil after all- there was no big twist- and I said Jack had to die in the end

I'm feeling kind of so-so about it- not great- but somewhat satisfying and I'm kind of glad it's over


Syren 2007


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25. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
I was 100% satisfied with the finale until the church. I'm still processing the last 15 minutes.

Like HD and others, there are unanswered questions that bug me, but in the big picture, the story wasn't the mythology or the DI, but the characters.

Loved the last scene with Vincent and Jack. Perfect way to end the series.

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47. "Vincent!"
When FLocke said "looks like a dog's been here" I yelled "VINCENT!" I loved how Bernard and Rose were there all along, just not getting involved, LOL!
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58. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Having thought about the finale some more, and having discussed it on other boards, one criticism that I find valid and agree with is that the Island was a character as much as Jack and Co.

Darlton should have recognized that and found a way to complete the Island's arc.

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26. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
I think for me the dissatisfaction comes from two places - Locke's story and they way Smokey died.

The series took a wrong turn for me when Locke died and became XLocke. He was the one connected to the island, that loved the island that wanted to protect the island. An XBen would have made more sense to me. I was so sure they were going to rectify that mistake be Jack somehow killing him on the operating table and Locke somehow ousting Smokey from his body that it was a major let down that he had nothing to do with saving the island.

Really, pull a stone out of a hole and Smokey becomes mortal, Jack throws a few punches, Kate shoots him and he's dead. Wow.

And after he was dead why did anyone have to stay and be The One?

And while I'm at it, why was that cute little boy the epitome of evil? Yeah, he killed his evil, non-mom that killed his real mom but seriously why couldn't he leave the island? Even before he became Smokey.

And Sideways/Future world - was everyone dead? And if so why was Locke alone in the church?
Damn, the more I think about it the less satisfied I am.

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05-24-10, 10:46 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
>And after he was dead why
>did anyone have to stay
>and be The One?

For the same reason Mother was there in the first place. The island wasn't intended to imprison Smokey, it was intended to safeguard the Source.

Loved the little nod to The Prisoner. You were a great Number 2. You were a great Number 1. Wonder how many 10-year-olds died laughing in front of their TVs.

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35. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Thanks dabo! - I got too wrapped up in the "having to keep Smokey on the island" story I guess.
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29. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
I found it a great end to a great series. I had never expected the end to answer all those unanswered questions. I thought that I would be pi$$ed off that I wouldn't be getting all the answers but I'm not and it ended perfectly for me. The very Lostesque ending was solid and all those unanswered questions didn't really matter anymore. So that's it.

Some ramblings:

The "gathering place"/LA makes sense now. Their "lives" were still related to their real lives (Kate still a fugitive, Sawyer still seeking out Sawyer) but in the flash sideways world, their lives were better.

Locke and especially Jack, who was the last one, finally "let go" and were able to move on.

Mrs. Widmore with all her knowledge, which will never be explained. Now I know why she was upset when the prosepect of Daniel leaving with Desmond was a possibility. I guess she is enjoying spending time with her son in this place before she can move on (probably feeling guilty about what she did to him when they were alive!)

Ah, Ben is the new No. 2 and assumed a Richard-like role. I was expecting that.

Now the only question that I do have is how did Hurley and Ben return Desmond home? Ben said that there was an easier way.

Michael Emerson saying that he was the most beaten character in TV history - word!

The various flashbacks between the characters had me tearing up!

Finally, the very ending with Jack and Vincent and Jack's eye closing instead of opening... very emotional.



A Gift from Agman

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05-24-10, 10:31 AM (EST)
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32. "Just wanted to say"
thanks for sharing a fun ride with me. I'm gonna miss this forum.

Here's a fun read -

http://www.theawl.com/2010/05/43-answers-to-unanswered-questions-about-%E2%80%9Clost%E2%80%9D


Lost Wipeout (insert musical rendition here) by Zombs

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34. "RE: Just wanted to say"
Love this!
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36. "RE: Just wanted to say"
Great piece. Many of the comments seem to come from a lot of trolls.
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37. "The Devil's tool"
In the end, the island was a place where balance between good and evil was put on a scale and people were tested to see how they measured up.

(If anyone wonders why Micheal wasn't in the church in the final scene, it was because, as he said in his last scene a few weeks ago, he couldn't move on. He had failed the test and was doomed to roam the island for eternity.)

The center of the island was a place where the light of all the souls of humanity was shining just above the fires of hell. That's why there was a need for the cork. The cork wasn't meant to keep MIB on the island but rather to contain the fires of hell from spreading.

When he was thrown into the pit, MIB was convinced that the only way to get off the island was to return to the cave and put out the light. Without knowing it, he was being used. Or maybe that was his pact with the devil: If the light was put out, the devil would give MIB's life and humanity back.

Jacob, with almost infinite patience, figured that the best way to prevent MIB from putting out the light was to hide the cave. (Jacob knew how to use mirrors!) Over time he did put in place a back-up plan in case MIB found a loophole. Jacob's back-up plan was Desmond. Jack and Locke both figured that out and, while Jack had faith in Jacob, Locke thought it was his opportunity to finally destroy the island and leave.

What Locke didn't know was, when Desmond took out the cork, Smokey wasn't needed anymore so Locke lost his powers (or the devil honored his pact at the most inopportune time). The devil had been freed, the destruction of the island and the world was underway. Only Jack, as protector of the island, could put the cork back in place and save the world.

That's for the fantasy story behind the island as I perceive it. The story of Lost however was the redemption of the characters, how their love for each other enabled them to overcome and how it helped them find themselves. They needed the island for that just as much as the island needed them.


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05-24-10, 12:27 PM (EST)
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42. "End credit scenes"
What was the deal with showing the 815 wreckage on the beach at the very end?

I did like the ending with Jack on the island- I LOVED his final scene with Hurley!


Handcrafted by RollDdice 2005

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43. "Loved it."
I loved it. The finale left me with a happy loved-it buzz. I loved that it was about the characters. It delivered on everything I loved about watching this series, and I loved how it circled back around, with jack stumbling out of the bamboo, the plane taking off, Jack closing his eyes.

Nicely done.


A Mmmmmmmoonie plate special!

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05-24-10, 12:43 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
I like this comment from a Washington Post article- there was a debate about whether the whole thing was just Jack's purgatory (ie. Jack was dead the whole series from the beginning):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/05/21/DI2010052103465.html

Jack wasn't dead: At least not during the season. He died in the finale, lying in the bamboo field, just like we saw last night. That was all real. The plane really took off, like he saw. That was real too. Shannon died when she was shot, Boone died after he fell, Charlie died when he drowned. It was all real. Just like Christian said at the end: "Everything that's ever happened to you is real."

Everyone lived their lives in the "real" world. Some died early on on the island (Boone/Shannon/etc). Some died later on on the island (Sun/Jin/Sayid/Jack). Some got off the island and went about living their lives (Kate/Claire/Sawyer). They eventually died too. Maybe a week after they got off. Maybe 70 years. It doesn't matter. Christian again: "Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some died before you. Some died long after you."

The timing of that doesn't matter. Not in sideways world. This is where I think you guys got off track in your analysis this week. (Please don't take that the wrong way, because I LOVE reading your analysis.) But, anyway, I think you guys both got off track on this one because you're trying to make a temporal link between what happened in sideways world last night in with what happened in the island world. But you can't do that. Time doesn't exist in the sideways world. Again, remember Christian: "There is no NOW here."

Its just where they all went to wait for one another and find one another. And they found one another exactly like they were when they were with one another in the real world. That's why Locke was able to walk. That's why Kate/Sawyer/Claire all looked 35, even though they were likely much older when they died. And that's why Aaron was a baby, even though he very well could have led a full life.

I loved it. I thought it was just perfect. I knew we weren't getting a ton of answers, so I was prepared for that. And then when we're seeing scenes in the first hour that you would have anticipated being the penultimate scenes (i.e. all the stuff with Flocke), you quickly realized that this wasn't really going to be about the island at all. It was about the people. It was always about the people.


Handcrafted by RollDdice 2005

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05-24-10, 03:16 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
That nicely sums it up, I agree.


-A Tribetastic Creation

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45. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
That was ... weird.

After six seasons of Lost, I knew better than to expect a crystal-clear ending with all the answers wrapped up in a neat bundle, but I expected a little more clarity than that. Still, I enjoyed watching the final episode and liked the series as a whole.

"See you in the next life, brother."

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05-24-10, 04:45 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
If I had watched the finale a few years ago, I would've been extremely disappointed. What about all those burning questions that I wanted answered, dammit?! In fact, I felt disappointed for most of this season--I still wanted those answers, and knew they weren't going to have time to give us all of them.

However, something about this finale just worked for me. It really (as lame as this is) made me realize that sometimes you don't need all the answers. Sometimes things just happen, and you don't get to know why. What you do get, is what you get. And whatever you can take from the things that leave you wondering in life helps you to grow and, hopefully, become a better person. If you think about it, the characters had no idea what was going on half the time, either. They were just as lost (haha) as we were on the sonic fences and numbers, etc. And they all grew throughout the three years they spent dealing with this island.

I have to say, I kind of like that a lot of things were left open-ended. I'm sure lots of people don't like the idea of primetime TV being all preachy or "teaching a lesson"; most of us would rather go for the instant gratification of having a show explicitly give the answers that we want. But I think that's what makes Lost so special, is that it's not just another TV show that does that. It's an experience. And if you want the answers, that's up to you to decide what it all means to you.

Such an amazing journey, and truly a work of art.

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05-24-10, 06:56 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Sorry all... I was a little disappointed. I know just about everybody really lvoed this ending. But I guess I'm alone.

My first reaction: I was so disappointed, I told myself I would never watch anything on ABC again. EVER! I felt so let down I looked for a way to take Channel 24 ABC off my 'programmed channel list'.

Maybe I expected answers. Yaaa.... that's prolly it. I just really craved answers. I really wanted to know what the numbers were all about.
...ended up they meant NOTHING.

I really wanted to know what the smoke monster was made of.
I really wanted to know why Walt had some kind of paranormal power.
Where did the supermagnetic properties come from?
Why did the 'others' put Kate and Sawyer in bear cages?
How did the island sink underwater?
Why did the shark have the Dharma sign on it?
Why did they push those numbers?
Is 108 minutes really how long it takes a satellite to circle the world?
What pulled up them trees?

What...
Why...
Where...

Nothing seems to mean anything.
So I watched it again trying to have fun with it like all of you did.

Helped a little. I had to keep in mind it's just a show, and the producers really never had an ending in mind when they started it.

I guess I was just expecting zombies, or robots or something.
Where's that fooner?

I guess I had fun trying to figure everything out with all of YOU! It's funny that so many people microanalyzed (including me) events and 'clues thinking they would lead somewhere.

It's so funny I was microanalyzing still shots till I saw horses and monkeys in the bushes.......

Where's my Crazytrain to Crazytown siggy?

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05-24-10, 08:11 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Batts, your visions in the stills during the early seasons are my favorite!

Here's hoping we one day get another show like this to pick apart!

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05-25-10, 08:00 AM (EST)
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56. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
HA! I know huh... All those illusions I saw in the hills and bushes...
I guess the mirages of faces when smokey first met Eko, all the faces in the smoke we saw, prolly meant nothing. Oh well...

Looking back on it, I have to laugh at myself for trying to over micro-analize all those still shots, trying to figure out the 'secret' to the island. Watching episodes FRAME BY FRAME to see if I could spot more monkeys in the bushes.

Member when Daniel Russo proclaimed "They're coming!" and we all stared in horror as the smoke rose in the distance? Turned out to be a small bonfire... LOL

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Tummy 3542 desperate attention whore postings
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05-27-10, 10:14 AM (EST)
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60. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
I know exactly what you mean. And part of me feels bad for feeling so unsatisfied and I'm trying really hard to let it go and go with True's duct tape analysis.

Part of me thinks the writer's knew where they were going when they started this - the island was Purgatory. And then got pissed because we guessed it. So the storyline got all convoluted and we wind up with "the story is really about the characters, not all the stuff that was suppose to be hints but now are not".

When someone says "all the props mean something" shouldn't they say what that something was before they wonder off into the land of reruns?

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05-27-10, 08:02 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Tummy,
>>>>Part of me thinks the writer's knew where they were going when they started this - the island was Purgatory. And then got pissed because we guessed it. So the storyline got all convoluted and we wind up with "the story is really about the characters, not all the stuff that was suppose to be hints but now are not".

You are not alone!
there's a good topic about this here:
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=126719

(my take on it is on the last page)

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-28-10, 00:04 AM (EST)
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64. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
Thanks for the link, I enjoyed that. Well, pages 1, 2 and 11, didn't read the whole thing.

There's an amusing argument (well, it amuses me) in one of the threads over at 4815162348 about whether atheists should be offended by the purgatory world of Lost. I find all this purgatory talk a bit annoying, it only really works in the most abstract sense of a fictional tv show making up their own version of purgatory. Purgatory isn't a universal religious concept, it isn't even a universal Christian concept, but I defy anyone who believes in purgatory to stand up and say that was anything like the purgatory they were taught to believe in.

Really? Purgatory is a place we all agree to make together so we can have a reunion in the afterlife? Really? And atheists are the ones who should be offended by that?

In the context of the show it doesn't bother me at all, they all died happily ever after, how sweet.

There were plenty of "oh, c'mon" bits in "The End" to go around. The biggest one for me turned out to be...

James and Kate got off a perfectly sound sailing ship to take their chances on a wrecked jet! OH, C'MON!

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05-28-10, 08:31 AM (EST)
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65. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.17/6.18: "The End""
James and Kate got off a perfectly sound sailing ship to take their chances on a wrecked jet! OH, C'MON!

Ha ha. But Desmond had to get home to Penny...


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53. "More podcast fun."
Discussion with Alan Sepinwall and Cluck Klosterman.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/simmons/

Right column, current topmost link.

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moonbaby 17013 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-24-10, 09:09 PM (EST)
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55. "Now I can tell you"
(if you don't already know) the hieroglyphics on the poster that we were all looking at before this season started said The Underworld, but I forget where I read that

I admit having only a small idea they were dead in the sideways world until Sun and Jin were in the hospital. I'd assumed that was everyone's lives after the bomb reset everything. Ha! I see dead people!

Great characters, what a cast-I'll miss them.

I could definitely watch the whole thing over from the beginning some time. For now I'll mull it over, wondering who's going to be in my church.

Thanks for hooking me on this show!

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