|
|
|
|
PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
|
|
|
"Interesting editorial in the Times..."
desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
|
02-28-04, 09:54 AM (EST)
 
   |
|
"Interesting editorial in the Times..." |
Particularly considering the recent discussions...http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/28/opinion/28KRIS.html?th Peter, Paul, Mary . . . and God
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: February 28, 2004 For a provocative look at the emergence of Christianity two millenniums ago, skip Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" and examine instead some of the fascinating recent scholarship on the early church. Interest in the early church has blossomed because of "Passion" and the "Da Vinci Code" thriller. But "Passion" and especially "The Da Vinci Code" take great liberties with history, while serious research has gotten much less attention. Consider the newly published "Gospel of Mary of Magdala." It offers a new translation by Karen King, a Harvard Divinity School professor, of the obscure Gospel of Mary, which was lost for 1,500 years before two fragmentary versions were found. The Gospel of Mary offers a proto-feminist recounting of a scene in which the resurrected Jesus tells the disciples to preach, and then leaves them. The disciples are emotional and tearful — until Mary Magdalene takes charge and bucks them up. "Do not weep and be distressed," she tells them, and, sure enough, they pull themselves together. Then Mary begins to relate Jesus' private teachings to her, saying, "I will teach you about what is hidden from you." But the disciples rebel at being instructed by a woman. Andrew and Peter virtually accuse Mary of making it all up, and she starts crying. Levi intercedes, scolding: "Peter, you have always been a wrathful person. . . . Assuredly, the Savior's knowledge of her is completely reliable. That is why he loved her more than us." Bibles, like history, are written by the winners. There were innumerable early gospels and teachings (some 85 percent of Christian literature from the first two centuries has been lost). Some won approval and entered the New Testament, and the rest were condemned as heresies or died out on their own. The Gnostic Gospels and other early writings suggest that initially the role of women was hotly debated, but ultimately the idea prevailed that men should dominate. "God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family," Pat Robertson writes in his best-selling book "Bring It On." He cites I Timothy: "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them." Likewise, Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak." That view is hard to square, though, with other accounts that portray Mary Magdalene as a favorite of Jesus'. The "Pistis Sophia" scripture quotes Jesus as telling Mary Magdalene: "You are she whose heart is more directed to the Kingdom of Heaven than all your brothers." And the Gospel of Philip says of Mary Magdalene: "She is the one the Savior loved more than all the disciples, and he used to kiss her on her mouth often. . . . The rest of the disciples . . . said to him, `Why do you love her more than us?' " These gospels aren't necessarily suggesting a romance between Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and in any case their value is much debated — traditionalists argue that they are prized to make ideological points rather than to clarify history. The Gospel of Mary was written in her name but not by her, and apparently was written in the early second century, long after the events it describes. Still, the dispute over the role of women can be seen raging in many early Christian writings. The Gospel of Thomas even quotes Simon Peter as saying, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life." Susan Haskins, in her history of the idea of Mary Magdalene, says that egalitarian principles in the New Testament initially prevailed in the first-century Christian community. But then, she writes, Christianity gradually returned to the traditional patriarchal system of Judaism. That suppression of female leadership may be behind the labeling of Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, starting with a sermon by Pope Gregory the Great in 591. And recent scholarship has established that Junius, whom Paul calls "distinguished among the apostles," was actually Junia, a woman whose name was made masculine by later translators. How should we regard these alternative versions of Biblical events? They are a reminder that there were competing strains in the early Christian church, and that different outcomes were possible. My guess is that the ordination of women would not have been controversial if Mary Magdalene, rather than St. Peter, had emerged as the first pope.
-- JV 
I post doomed thresds. What do you do?
|
|
|
Top |
| |
 |
AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
|
02-28-04, 03:09 PM (EST)
|
|
13. "History VS Hollywood" |
Also tonight, History Channel is doing a History vs Hollywood episode comparing the Mel Gibson movie to history (gotta love cable). These are sometimes vary revealing.Next Airing: Saturday, Feb 28 @ 10pm ET/PT
How true is Hollywood to history? What are the real stories behind the people and events portrayed? Featuring interviews with historians, the director, producers, actors, and film clips, we compare history with Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ", "a vivid depiction of the last 12 hours of Jesus Christ's life with James Caviezel and Monica Belluci." Our panel delves into the controversy around the film, including charges of anti-Semitism, and finds out why Jesus speaks in Latin and Aramaic. TV PG http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/series_showcase.jsp?EGrpType=Series&Id=10279755&NetwCode=THC
|
|
|
Top |
| |
|
|
|
AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
|
02-28-04, 02:19 PM (EST)
|
|
6. "RE: Interesting editorial in the Times..." |
LAST EDITED ON 02-28-04 AT 02:25 PM (EST)Here's a hypothetical situation that makes me wonder why so many think women are less important to the human race then men. If some gender based virus suddenly came along and killed all the women on earth, homo sapiens would be finished, wiped off the face of the planet in a matter of a few decades. If this virus instead killed all the males on earth our species would survive and probably be back to thriving in a few decades, even if you just count the number of women who are currently pregnant and not count sperm stored up in sperm banks all over the world. (There are times I even wonder if such a fresh start wouldn't be a bad thing.) So which gender is more necessary to living and wouldn't that make them at least equally worthy (if not more so). FYI--check your PM. 
|
|
|
Top |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sagebrush Dan 10002 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
|
02-28-04, 11:57 AM (EST)
|
|
3. "RE: Interesting editorial in the Times..." |
>Likewise, Paul wrote to the Corinthians:
>"Women should be silent during
>the church meetings. It is
>not proper for them to
>speak." For centuries the church has taken this scripture out of context and used it to silence women. The reason Paul wrote this is that it was the custom for the men to sit in front of the church and the women to sit in back. The women could not hear what the speaker was saying, and so they'd yell to someone to have the speaker repeat it. Caused a lot of commotion. So, Paul was more or less giving them practical advice. Because of the misunderstanding of this verse in particular, the church has missed out on a lot of excellent teaching by women, and the women have been suppressed. I've wondered why Paul didn't just tell them to let the sexes intermingle, but Paul was raised and trained as a Pharisee, so it was probably difficult for him to let some of the old Temple prejudices go. As for the gay issue, if one goes back to the original Hebrew and Greek, there is absolutely nothing against homosexuality per se. Most of Paul's references had to do with child prostitution; or as in the case of the Corinthians, they'd have indiscriminate sex as part of their temple worship——heterosexuals doing it with other heterosexuals of the same sex, etc. etc. There's also new evidence that the prophet Daniel was gay (although David and Jonathon are still controversial).
|
|
|
Top |
| |
|
|
|
AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
|
02-28-04, 03:29 PM (EST)
|
|
16. "RE: Interesting editorial in the Times..." |
Got room for one more? I'm told I have a pretty good sense of direction for some things, the way to hell being one of them. And as long as the boat isn't diesel, I promise I won't get sea sick.
|
|
|
Top |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
|
02-28-04, 05:09 PM (EST)
|
|
24. "RE: Interesting editorial in the Times..." |
The reason Paul wrote this is that it was the custom for the men to sit in front of the church and the women to sit in back.Not church. Synagogue. In orthodox synagogues women and men still sit separately. Sometimes they sit side by side with a curtain between them, sometimes women in the back or in a balcony. However the reason seems to have gotten lost. The sight of a women, even the sound of her voice, is viewed as so enticing and arousing as to distract men from prayer. Women didn't teach (adult) men for the same reason. However in all but the most extremist groups women are/were expected to be learned and to teach other women and children. And in conservative, reconstructionist, and reform congregations women are no longer separated.
© J Slice, who rocks "Half of Tech's charm is that sometimes I have no idea what she's talking about" -- True
|
|
|
Top |
| |
|
|
Tiger Lily 1679 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
|
02-29-04, 01:04 AM (EST)
|
|
27. "RE: Interesting editorial in the Times..." |
Interesting. Thanks, JV.
|
|
|
Top |
| |
|
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
|
|
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
'been J Sliced.