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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 06:14 PM (EST) "Change the Tone" Last night the President issued a challenge to all of us to change the tone of our discussions - how we treat people with other views and how we characterize those with whom we disagree. As someone who has pretty radically violated civil discussion rules in the past, I thought I might be a good candidate to get things rolling. So let me state foremost that I have knowingly said provocative, over the top, hurtful and aggressive things in the past on these boards. Sometimes for reaction, sometimes to oversimply or sometimes because it was easy to do in a internet forum with people I didn't know. Sorry is a hollow word and it doesn't UNsay any of those things, but it is true. I am sorry for some of the things I have said and I am sorrier for the way I have said them. I'm a person who believes in things passionately and that hasn't changed. There are two things in particular I regret. One is the insensitive way that I have spoke about gay issues on these boards. The other is the attacks on the patriotism of people or certain parties. When you paint with too wide a brush, you almost always get some spatter on yourself. So, how can we change the tone? It all starts with each of us. What are you going to do about it?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Change the Tone Karchita 01-13-11 1  RE: Change the Tone jbug 01-13-11 2  Hear hear... kingfish 01-13-11 3    RE: Hear hear... frodis 01-13-11 4        *makes snickerface* foonermints 01-13-11 8        RE: Hear hear... kingfish 01-13-11 9            Uh Oh! foonermints 01-13-11 11            RE: Hear hear... Karchita 01-14-11 15                RE: Hear hear... foonermints 01-16-11 25  RE: Change the Tone Max Headroom 01-13-11 5  RE: Change the Tone qwertypie 01-13-11 6    RE: Change the Tone PagongRatEater 01-13-11 12        RE: Change the Tone dabo 01-14-11 13        RE: Change the Tone qwertypie 01-14-11 16  RE: Change the Tone VisionQuest 01-13-11 7    RE: Change the Tone PagongRatEater 01-14-11 14        RE: Change the Tone dabo 01-14-11 17  RE: Change the Tone blacknwhitedog 01-13-11 10  RE: Change the Tone kathliam 01-14-11 18  *quietly walks away* Estee 01-14-11 19    So long PagongRatEater 01-14-11 20        As they say on 'Earth Day' IceCat 01-16-11 26  RE: Change the Tone Tummy 01-14-11 21  RE: Change the Tone Snidget 01-15-11 22  RE: Change the Tone Sagebrush Dan 01-15-11 23  RE: Change the Tone zipperhead 01-16-11 24    RE: Change the Tone Gothmog 01-16-11 27        RE: Change the Tone kingfish 01-16-11 28            RE: Change the Tone Gothmog 01-16-11 29                RE: Change the Tone kingfish 01-16-11 34                    RE: Change the Tone Gothmog 01-16-11 35                        RE: Change the Tone kingfish 01-16-11 37                            Some things never change. Max Headroom 01-16-11 38                            Ummmm Gothmog 01-16-11 39                                RE: Ummmm kingfish 01-17-11 41                            RE: Change the Tone PagongRatEater 01-16-11 40        RE: Change the Tone zipperhead 01-16-11 30            RE: Change the Tone PagongRatEater 01-16-11 31    RE: Change the Tone bondt007 01-16-11 32        RE: Change the Tone PagongRatEater 01-16-11 33  RE: Change the Tone jbug 01-16-11 36

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Karchita 4483 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-13-11, 06:54 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Change the Tone" I'll start by accepting your apology. It's easy for me to do because you have never done anything to me personally, but still. I believe in giving people another chance and moving forward.   Top

jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 07:52 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Change the Tone" This is something I've been hoping for for years - for our politicians to work together for our country. As for you? **smoochie**   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 08:05 PM (EST) 3. "Hear hear..." LAST EDITED ON 01-13-11 AT 08:13 PM (EST) Coupled with PRE's sentiment, I 'd suggest that we all become a bit more thick skinned and introspective when we think we are being attacked. Or at least hold the vitriol down a bit and show basic respect even when sorely tempted to lash out. We should be able to debate hot topics without resorting to veiled insults. With the level of talent in this forum at the art of "presenting veiled insults yet remaining within the guidelines" we can't depend on guidelines and Mods to maintain civility. It pretty much has to boil down to mutual respect. I (and most of us I would bet) have learned that there are some others with whom we just can't disagree without starting a brush fire. There are others (most of us, I think) that can see the humor in a good natured ribbing without retorting with flames. Even if a particular joke or rib doesn't strike you as funny, if it was intended to be someone else's cockeyed humor, then let it go. Just let it go. ETA: On the other hand lively debate is fun and educational. And engaging. Hopefuly lively and vigorous doesn't mean mean-spirited and personally provacative. So to start things off, I say Obama is a scurvy bastard intent on corrupting Washington with Chigaco politics. (See? no vitriol there, just plain facts)   Top

frodis 4442 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-13-11, 08:13 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Hear hear..." Dear kingfish, I consider this post a personal attack. Love, Terminally humorless frodis   Top

foonermints 14531 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 10:06 PM (EST) 8. "*makes snickerface*" Frodis.. offended by fish. *Makes note on secret "no-offend" clipboard* Yobbo'd by Agman!   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 10:24 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Hear hear..." LAST EDITED ON 01-13-11 AT 10:25 PM (EST) Dear Frody, It is with great pleasure that I read your mutant (meant in the most constructive way) letter of 1/13/2011. The personal attack you refer to was indeed personal, but it meant for Fooner who besmirched the honor of a cross-eyed opossum named Heidi, just because it stuck it's tongue out at him. I think that means Fooner is an anti-ophthalmically-challenged marsupialist. Of the worst order. Yours very truly The Right Hon. Kingfish G. Bosworth of Bosworth Sand Castle.   Top

foonermints 14531 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 11:17 PM (EST) 11. "Uh Oh!" I'm stepping at least one length back from this one.   Top

Karchita 4483 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-14-11, 00:35 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Hear hear..." Gawd, that creature looks like Sarah Palin.   Top

foonermints 14531 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 03:38 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Hear hear..." She is my new favorite. Handcrafted by RollDdice *foonerrumpkick*   Top

Max Headroom 10069 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 08:15 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Change the Tone" Welcome back, PRE. I've missed you around here.   Top

qwertypie 9776 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 08:55 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Change the Tone" Tonight, I will drink a beer to your health. An Innis and Gunn.   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 11:30 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Change the Tone" Yummy. I don't know that one, but I am pretty sure I would like it! A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-14-11, 00:06 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Change the Tone" “Drink to me, drink to my health, you know I can’t drink any more.” -- Pablo Picasso (final words) Welcome home.   Top

qwertypie 9776 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-14-11, 00:50 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Change the Tone" It's aged in oak barrels. I think their original is by far the best. I really, really like it.   Top

VisionQuest 1171 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 01-13-11, 09:11 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Change the Tone" It's "an" internet not a internet - sheesh. (tongue in cheek) I think one of the problems that I have is how I read what people write. Sometimes I will tell my husband to read what someone has written, he will find nothing inflammatory, but then I read it aloud with emphasis on what I find offensive. Then he tells me he sees my point, but that maybe since I don't agree with what the poster has said that I find hatred in the person's words. I am now trying to read what is written in a neutral voice and not attach my emotions to their words.   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-14-11, 00:16 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Change the Tone" Sorry. I have a issue with grammer. Kelsey.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-14-11, 02:39 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Change the Tone" I did a search to find out if sardonicist is a word and got http://www.erikaeleniaksofficialsite.com/new/index.html   Top

blacknwhitedog 6532 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-13-11, 10:33 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Change the Tone" hey it's you! Syren 2007   Top

kathliam 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 01-14-11, 08:41 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Change the Tone" I will say for myself I hope the tone changes and not a moment too soon. Politics has always been one of my favorite spectator sports and I truly enjoyed a spirited debate on the issues. Over the past 8-10 years I can no longer participate in any discussion (with friends, not so much in OT) because the days of a civilized discussion are long gone. Politic discussions became so vitrolic and every discussion devolved into hateful rhetoric and the old 'if you disagree with me you are wrong'. The worst thing for me given the current climate is that my DH, usually a person with whom I could have a discussion exploring both sides of a particular issue, has become one of the most cynical and sarcastic people on the face of the earth. I truly miss the days of just talking about things with him. I truly hope we return to the days when issues can be 'grey'. And anyone who disagrees with me is a dirty cross-eyed dog who doesn't deserve to vote. PRE, it's good to see you back. Although I may not agree with all you say, I do appreciate your opinions and often find myself educated about sides of an issue.   Top

Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-14-11, 10:10 AM (EST) 19. "*quietly walks away*" So, how can we change the tone? It all starts with each of us. Yeah, I'll work on that right after I get back from having dinner at Milliways. *sighs* *leaves thread* My actions at the bottom of the pyramid do nothing to halt the screaming at the top or the echoes all the way down.   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-14-11, 10:29 AM (EST) 20. "So long" And thanks for all the fish. Nope, we're not going to stop the Mark Levin and David Corns of the world from their brand of vitriol. All I can try to control is how I interact.   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 06:25 AM (EST) 26. "As they say on 'Earth Day'" Think Globally... Act Locally   Top

Tummy 3542 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 01-14-11, 10:35 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Change the Tone" Pre - I got a little teary-eyed reading your post and I truly believe you mean what you say. I miss having some lively debates, but can remember walking away from my computer fuming over what someone had posted. When all along I knew I wanted to be riled and on attack mode. Not that I expect or want everyone to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but I will listen and respond with respect.   Top

Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-15-11, 10:40 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Change the Tone" I'm trying really hard to hold my tongue on Larry Brown (link) as well as other people that tend to make my blood boil. Although he's also for no funding of any kind for smoker's illnesses as well (not sure what other lifestyles he will decide are perverse). I do wonder if he gets his health insurance through the state as he is an elected official in this state (or through the federal gov as he was in the military and USPS), as state tax money goes to support part of that I believe as part of his benefits package. Hopefully he fully funds his own insurance through a private company, because from the pictures I've seen he doesn't look to be the type of guy who is strict about a clean diet and vigorous exercise, why should my tax money support his choices?   Top

Sagebrush Dan 10002 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-15-11, 12:23 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Change the Tone" Thanks, PRE. So, give me a kiss, you big lug! Transcribed by Sharnina   Top

zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 01-16-11, 02:31 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Change the Tone" Last night the President issued a challenge to all of us to change the tone of our discussions - how we treat people with other views and how we characterize those with whom we disagree. Yeah, I read about that. Missed the speech, but there was plenty of dissecting afterwards of what he said, the reception he got from the crowd and something about t-shirts. As someone who has pretty radically violated civil discussion rules in the past,... What?!?! Are you saying that you were a less than stand-up guy on these forums in the past? I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you. I always thought of you as a paragon of decency in OT. Many of our peers who no longer post here would undoubtedly be just as shocked as I am. If they read your comments, that is. But they won't. Because they stopped coming here. For some reason.... ... I thought I might be a good candidate to get things rolling. Good, good. Because, you know - the forum has been a real battlefield lately and we need someone to be a role model for the rest of us. I am so glad it is you, Dom. You da MAN! So let me state foremost that I have knowingly said provocative, over the top, hurtful and aggressive things in the past on these boards. Sometimes for reaction, sometimes to oversimply or sometimes because it was easy to do in a internet forum with people I didn't know. Oh yeah, yeah. We've all done a little of that. Most of us, anyway. Don't be so hard on yourself, buddy. Just try to make it a little humorous - snarky, you know - and people won't take it so hard. Sorry is a hollow word and it doesn't UNsay any of those things, but it is true. Yeah, I guess you're right. Plus, the people you mighta wanta oughta say sorry to no longer post here. For some reason.... Not me though! I'm still here. Sure, I left for a while because I got really busy at work, really busy at home, really busy with politicking in '08, and really bored with a handful of posters here who dominated every.single.thread. But I came back! Best of all, you don't have to apologize to me. No sir. I am sorry for some of the things I have said and I am sorrier for the way I have said them. Wait a minute... didn't you do this apology stuff before? What happened - the apology had a six-month warranty or somethin' and it's time to renew? Aw, I'm just kiddin' with you. Listen, you want us to believe that you feel bad for anything you've done that has hurt or driven away othere people on these forums, then I will do my best to believe you. I'm a person who believes in things passionately and that hasn't changed. Okay, got it. You're apologizing but you're still the same as you were when you did things that required an apology later. Duly noted. There are two things in particular I regret. One is the insensitive way that I have spoke about gay issues on these boards. Mm-hmmm. The other is the attacks on the patriotism of people or certain parties. When you paint with too wide a brush, you almost always get some spatter on yourself. Oh, right. Patriotism. Gee, that rings a bell. When was it that you questioned someone's patriotism. Who was that? Gee, did someone get really upset when you questioned their patriotism? How rude of them. So, how can we change the tone? It all starts with each of us. What are you going to do about it? Oh - oh, I get it. You give a mea culpa, we're all going to wipe the slate clean and everyone's going to talk nice now, or else get accused of being the bad guy who isn't willing to reach out and bridge the divide, is that it? Real slick. I did not see that coming when I started reading your post, not even a little tiny bit. Well, sir, I've been accused in the past of being unnecessarily harsh. I really try not to be. Do I make people defend things they write and use their words against them in a debate? Well, yeah. But I try not to be rude about it. Do I post late at night or when I'm in a state when I probably shouldn't be posting? Yeah, I'm doing it now. But I don't try to hurt anyone. I'm just playing, you see? I'll tell you what - now I can't speak for anyone else, especially all of the terrific, witty, funny, kind people who no longer post here for some reason - but I can give you my word that I will do my part to keep things civil around here. Your smile bothers me   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 01-16-11, 10:37 AM (EST) 27. "RE: Change the Tone" LAST EDITED ON 01-16-11 AT 10:38 AM (EST) This echoes my thoughts, although I wouldn't have used the same words or sarcasm. "Sorry" for me doesn't cut it when folks who got caught in the crossfire are no longer here. I'd like to believe in the sentiment behind it--really, I would. But it's like trying to believe the alcoholic who suddenly decides to go off the wagon. In time, I may believe the "sorry," but it's going to take time--lots of time--and an absolutely spotless record before I'm sucked in to believing you're not going to climb back up on that wagon any time soon. I have knowingly said provocative, over the top, hurtful and aggressive things in the past on these boards. This is what bothers me the most, although I know you're just following the lead of others who have done and still do the same thing, including one of the moderators. But I believe that a person's ability to do this mean-spirited and incidiary (and frankly, un-Christian) thing while hiding behind the anonymity of an internet message board is a significant contribution to the decay of civil discourse in the past years. Edit: just to clarify: the "you" in this post is directed to PRE, not zipperhead.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 01:37 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Change the Tone" The sarcasm is out of line, IMO. It only detracts from whatever good this thread may accomplish, and says more about the targeter than the target. I believe that the folks that aren't here aren't the ones that got caught in the cross fire. They were guilty of breaking the guidelines that we are all held to. It was lack of basic civility. Pre, despite being a polarizing poster, does generally argue with civility. One should be entitled to present views that aren't popular with "right" thinking folks as long as as they are presented in the form of non-personal attacks. It is the discussion of views presented by people with differing opinions that has provided vigor and enlightenment in the past, and discouragement and condemnation of people like PRE who present differing viewpoints has taken some of the life from these discussions. In my view. And when he states that he regrets those times when he feels that he was less than civil, we should accept it at face value, and not ascribe our own emotional turmoil to him. From his post, and because he didn't have to post this thread, I believe that he is sincere and I believe that we should not go down the road rubbing his nose in what we might perceive as his sins of the past. The past is past. And BTW, since when is this forum the exclusive territory of Christians?   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 01-16-11, 02:09 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Change the Tone" The sarcasm is out of line, IMO. I agree. It's not the tone I would have used. I believe that the folks that aren't here aren't the ones that got caught in the cross fire. They were guilty of breaking the guidelines that we are all held to. It was lack of basic civility. I disagree. Pre, despite being a polarizing poster, does generally argue with civility. Again, I disagree. And PRE said as much in the original post. One should be entitled to present views that aren't popular with "right" thinking folks as long as as they are presented in the form of non-personal attacks. It is the discussion of views presented by people with differing opinions that has provided vigor and enlightenment in the past, and discouragement and condemnation of people like PRE who present differing viewpoints has taken some of the life from these discussions. In my view. Strongly disagree here. But I'm not going to get into a debate over perception here. And when he states that he regrets those times when he feels that he was less than civil, we should accept it at face value, and not ascribe our own emotional turmoil to him. From his post, and because he didn't have to post this thread, I believe that he is sincere and I believe that we should not go down the road rubbing his nose in what we might perceive as his sins of the past. If he is sincere, he can prove that with his future contributions. I'm willing to believe that it's possible. But I need convincing. He hasn't earned any right of the benefit of the doubt from me. And forgive me if I view with suspicion this public pronouncement of reform. It reminds me of the Biblical story of the person who prayed loudly in the temple, for everyone to see. Instead, I look to the example of KeithFan, who has attempted to be much more civil in his debates than he has in the past, without calling attention to the fact. I respect him all the more for it. And BTW, since when is this forum the exclusive territory of Christians? Why are you putting words in my mouth that I never said? My remark about the un-Christian behavior of vindictive posts was directed solely to PRE, who has made a public (again, a very public) pronouncement of his faith. My remark was directed to him: if he's going to talk the talk, he should walk it in all aspects of his faith. Otherwise it looks hypocritical.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 07:42 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Change the Tone" The word "un-Christian" was your word. Not mine, yours. And in the contest of your post, those words weren't directed at PRE. Again, from your post; “But I believe that a person's ability to do this mean-spirited and incidiary (and frankly, un-Christian) thing while hiding...” I do not see in that statement a specific in reference to PRE. But I'm grateful for your elucidation. Otherwise, I agree that we disagree. Except about KeithFan who besides having very civil initials, has presented his views in a generally civil tone. I agree with that. Apart from our discussion, I'd like to express my personal wish that PRE rejoin these boards, it was more lively and more educational with him that it has been since he went into self exile.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 01-16-11, 08:20 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Change the Tone" The word "un-Christian" was your word. Not mine, yours. It was my word, but the inferences you ascribed to it, the "words you put in my mouth" (as it were), were yours. Not mine, yours. (See, this works both ways.) And in the contest of your post, those words weren't directed at PRE. I'm assuming you mean context, which confuses me a bit, because you took the words directly out of their context. The previous sentence was directed at PRE, as was the general admonishment. I even edited to add (before you replied, according to the time stamp) that the post was directed to PRE. I'll take it from your response, however, that your ascribing to me a position I didn't advocate was entirely due to my being unclear in my post. Which is in itself illustrative: lack of clarity can lead a reader to leap to conclusions and assume a combative tone, which can only exacerbate the very problem we've been discussing. My apologies. Peace.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 10:26 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Change the Tone" OK. Fair enough. You point as to lack of clarity producing unintended results is well taken. All too often I'm guilty of that too. I did take your reference to Christian behavior as intended to be along the lines of something you expected others to conform to if they were to be civil and not as a specific reference to PRE. And especially not to Zip. No matter how clear you might think you were, or should have been taken, I re-read it and it still looks like a more general statement. According to the time stamps I see, you edited after my post. Regardless, it's unclear what "you" you meant. The general you? the specific you? As for the spelling correction, thanks. I do need an editor.   Top

Max Headroom 10069 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 11:20 PM (EST) 38. "Some things never change." PRE comes back and people start arguing. This is intended to be lighthearted, but if anyone feels the need to flame me, go ahead.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 01-16-11, 11:28 PM (EST) 39. "Ummmm" According to the time stamps I see, you edited after my post. Check again. My edit: 10:38 AM EST (one minute after my original post) Your response: 1:37 PM EST (3 hours after my original post) No matter how clear you might think you were, or should have been taken, I re-read it and it still looks like a more general statement. Dood. I already said I wasn't clear, and explained what I meant. How much do you want to belabor the point?   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-17-11, 01:20 AM (EST) 41. "RE: Ummmm" My mistake. I misread one of the time stamps. 10 looks like 01 to me sometimes.   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 11:44 PM (EST) 40. "RE: Change the Tone" I am proud to be a Christian, but that just means that I know I'm a sinner - not that I never sin. All I can do is try to do better. A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.   Top

zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 01-16-11, 02:42 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Change the Tone" It was a struggle to decide how much sarcasm (or snark) to put in my response. I wrote out a response to PRE at least three times before settling for what I posted. I felt like writing a response in what I believed to be the spirit of some of those people who voluntarily left because they were fed up with the shenanigans of a very few posters, including PRE. Perhaps I failed at that, but that is what I truly believed to be an appropriate responese to PRE's post. It would be great if we continued to see a new level of civility here. But as I alluded to in my previous post, things have been calm for the most part for a while now. PRE's challenge to each of us to make things better is out of sync with the current reality of OT. This challenge or whatever it is should have been made - and committed to - years ago.   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 02:59 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Change the Tone" You have every right to take my post however you would like. I would however, submit that your view of me as some sort of scourge who drove people from the boards strains credulity. Seriously? There were (are) a lot harsher voices in this forum. I own the fact that I have been one of the AT TIMES, but certainly not exclusively. I've taken my fair share of shots and not always fairly. Cest la vie. You can't please everybody, but I'm not going to let your post bring me down. If a person can't accept that people change and grow and learn, then so be it. I would say it's a pretty sad, dark world though. A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.   Top

bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 01-16-11, 05:43 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Change the Tone" How many times will I write and delete something here... *sigh* Zipper - I have been chewed up and spit out by these "people" that no longer post here. I do not miss them because I don't thing they really ever posted something that was constructive. They (a few of them) were just childish bully's. Good riddance to them, if they can't figure out how to communicate and add to the thoughtful debate with out the personal attacks. Your sarcastic reply to PRE is 100-fold more acceptable to me than the venom they once spewed here. It had nothing to do with thick skin or differences, just hate. PRE - where did you go? You step in a bear trap or two and then bail? I guess you are trying to own up to things here but it's rather dramatic and selfish - specially since we have gone though discussions and elections and have done just fine without your challenge. We all are not perfect - you, me and all, but if you say "goodby" with all the dramatics and then hello the same way - seems it's still about you. And? We're kind of on similar sides (if there are sides), yet, I feel more acceptance from HD and Hobbs than from you sometimes when you were a regular. Please stick around and add to the discussions and debate - time may be needed though, so that folks can heal. You may need to reach out more than this one dramatic "challenging" post... by the way - where the heck is Rudy? I just thought about him...   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 06:42 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Change the Tone" Hi bond. I have posted in a few other threads, but didn't feel that I could just jump in with both feet without addressing some of the past feelings. I think your criticism is fair and it was a concern that this was a post all about me, and it kinda was...and kinda wasn't. Let's just say, I felt that I needed to clear the air and then make some decisions about my level of future participation. I do check in from time to time and the roll call thread inspired this post. FTR, my challenge had very little to do with the tone on the boards which seems mostly genial and more focused on the level of discourse in general. I do know that the onus is on me to show if I can meet that standard. As for any personal feelings you may have yourself, I'm sorry if I did make you feel 'unaccepted'. It was never a decided intention, but obviously must have happened.   Top

jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-11, 10:24 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Change the Tone" I can't quite figure out which replies are being snarky & which are serious. Oh well; I'm happy to see you back, & I believe you are sincere. I miss a lot of peeps who have moved on. Shivering in the cold - Agman 2010   Top

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