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"And DeLay Gets His Way"
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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:16 PM (EST)
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"And DeLay Gets His Way"
Setting rather a dangerous precedent. Only Republican judges can judge Republicans?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/delay_indictment



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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way geg6 11-01-05 1
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way J Slice 11-01-05 2
   RE: And DeLay Gets His Way ginger 11-01-05 3
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way dabo 11-01-05 4
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way AugustGirl 11-01-05 5
   RE: And DeLay Gets His Way syren 11-01-05 6
       RE: And DeLay Gets His Way AugustGirl 11-01-05 7
           RE: And DeLay Gets His Way ginger 11-01-05 8
               RE: And DeLay Gets His Way AugustGirl 11-02-05 20
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way HistoryDetective 11-01-05 9
 Recusal AyaK 11-01-05 10
   RE: Recusal India 11-01-05 11
       RE: Recusal RudyRules 11-01-05 13
   RE: Recusal HobbsofMI 11-01-05 12
       RE: Recusal RudyRules 11-01-05 14
           RE: Recusal HobbsofMI 11-01-05 15
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way wandacal 11-01-05 16
   Kinda AyaK 11-01-05 17
       Thanks AyaK! wandacal 11-02-05 18
           Unlimited AyaK 11-02-05 19
       RE: Kinda Spidey 11-02-05 21
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way Lisapooh 11-02-05 22
   RE: And DeLay Gets His Way AugustGirl 11-02-05 23
 RE: And DeLay Gets His Way KeithFan 11-02-05 24
   RE: And DeLay Gets His Way ginger 11-02-05 25
 More info.... HobbsofMI 11-03-05 26
 And then the prosecutor gets his wa... AyaK 11-03-05 27

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geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:18 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
So...

Does that mean Al Gore gets a do-over because Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas got a vote on his case?


I'm such a slut for the blues.

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J Slice 13166 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:19 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
Hey mom, have you seen my jaw? I must've dropped it somewhere.


Qu'est-ce que c'est?

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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:26 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
*sighs*

How many times have I told you not to leave your stuff everywhere? What if someone stubs their toe on it or something?



I'm okay, Dahlin. Starting to find solitude is okay. In small doses.

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:27 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
delay = twerp
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:29 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
Not surprised.


a J Slice original. bounce by Icey.

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syren 5418 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:34 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
Neither am I.


*stalk*
What?


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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:36 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"

I see you.
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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:36 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
*waves to Auggie*


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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 06:58 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
Hey Ginger!


How's my Ya Ya doing?

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HistoryDetective 9516 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:43 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
I am so disgusted that I can't even put it into words.

The issue has come up for Perkins before. He voluntarily stepped aside in a 1994 case against Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison. Perkins had made a $300 contribution to Hutchison's political opponent. Hutchison, also represented by DeGuerin, was ultimately acquitted of misconduct charges.

It is my understanding that Perkins was a friend of, not just political supporter of, Hutchison's opponent. He believed the relationship was close enough that he needed to recuse himself.

Obviously the man has exhibited enough integrity in the past to determine *himself* when he felt that his personal views and relationships would impede the judicial process and he took appropriate action. Considering that nobody, not even DeLay's attorney, accuses the judge of any ethical slips, he deserved the benefit of the doubt this time around. Just another instance of certain 'Pubs thinking they are above the law.

Since everybody loves the Clinton years so much, perhaps only Democratic senators should have been involved in his impeachment. It would have saved the country a lot of time, money, and distraction.


Sigs by Syren and Seana. Bouncie by IceCat. One and Only WeinerGuy.
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"We must scrupulously guard the civil rights and civil liberties of all our citizens, whatever their background. We must remember that any oppression, any injustice, any hatred, is a wedge designed to attack our civilization." --- Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 9 January 1940

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 03:44 PM (EST)
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10. "Recusal"
Recusal is standard procedure in a case where there is a public perception that a judge has bias. I don't care for DeLay, but the fact that this judge donated to MoveOn.com, which has been publicly campaigning against DeLay, should be enough for recusal.

If the judge had just contributed to the Kerry campaign, or to the Democratic Party, that shouldn't have been enough to warrant his recusal. After all, judges are permitted to have political opinions -- we all know they wouldn't have reached the bench without their parties. But contributing to MoveOn.org, even if it was before the anti-DeLay campaign? Sorry, he had to go.

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India 109 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 04:28 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Recusal"
But... but... can't we keep him anyway? If we make our beds and take out the trash, can't the MoveOn.org judge stay, please?

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RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 10:23 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Recusal"
No.


Your defending two time college football pool champion

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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 04:29 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Recusal"
I'll agree with you....and if a Rep. judge did the same he should step down too.


sig by PM and bouncy by IceCat

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RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 10:26 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Recusal"
Absolutely.
I agree with Ayak completely here. The judge was clearly indirect opposition to DeLay's policies and actively donated for his election defeat. If a Republican judge actively worked against the candidacy of a leading Democrat, he should also recuse himself.


Your defending two time college football pool champion

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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 11:08 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Recusal"
Or worked actively for an organization for DeLay....


sig by PM and bouncy by IceCat

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wandacal 4018 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 11:09 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
Perhaps one of you waaay smarter lawyer peeps can clear this up, but am I wrong in saying that this would be the equivalent of a "Change of Venue" in many trials?
Which is justifiable in many cases.
Example:
Here in the Modesto area, Scott Peterson was pretty much assumed "guilty" by the entire town the second his wife, Laci, disappeared. That assumption increased by the time her body was found.
(I admit, I was one of the "assumers". AND? I am a resident of the same county where the jurors would have been chosen.)
A "change of venue" was IMMEDIATELY approved. Subsequently, he was tried about 400 miles away.
Yes. I know he was found guilty. But that's not my point.
Peterson would have been lucky if he even MADE it to trial here in Stanislaus County. There was a real "mob mentality" here. The idea of "vigilante justice" was a real threat. In other words?
We had it in for him since day one.
Unfair? Yup. Biased? Yup. But sometimes you just can't change the way people feel.
Is this whole comparison apples and oranges? Perhaps. I mean, comparing jurors to a judge IS a big leap, I admit.
But if it's pretty much a given that you are screwed before you even show up, shouldn't you get at LEAST a fighting chance?


Harvest time courtesy of Syren!

And with this, I officially apologize for subjecting you to my amateur forays into threads where I am soooo not the sharpest tool in the shed!

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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11-01-05, 11:49 PM (EST)
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17. "Kinda"
LAST EDITED ON 11-02-05 AT 06:44 AM (EST)

Both a recusal and a change of venue result in a change of forum for the defendant, so they are kinda alike. But the standard is far different. For recusal, the standard is that there shouldn't be the appearance of a conflict of interest for the judge. Even if the judge is pure as the driven snow, the judge may be recused due to a perceived conflict (example: judge owns 100 shares of Microsoft stock and is recused from Microsoft bias case, even though judge actually couldn't care less if stock becomes worthless). But for a change of venue, the standard is that the local jury pool has been "poisoned" by negative publicity, thus making it impossible to seat an honest and fair jury.

In the case of recusal, the idea is to avoid giving the loser the appearance of impropriety.

Edited to add: Yes, I was referring to DeLay as the loser. That's what happens when you get tired -- your true thoughts come out. But whether DeLay will actually lose this case is an open question, because it seems to me that it's entirely a question of interpretation.

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wandacal 4018 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 00:15 AM (EST)
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18. "Thanks AyaK!"
I actually GOT that!
One more question:
Is there an unlimited number of recusals one's lawyer(s) can move for or can they be exhausted eventually?

I ask this because I wonder if this could be used as a way to delay the trial interminably.

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 06:55 AM (EST)
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19. "Unlimited"
Theoretically, you could keep asking for judges to be recused until doomsday.

However, most motions for recusal are not granted. One of my friends was trying a high-profile case, and the judge said to him in a pre-trial meeting in chambers that he was rejecting a plea arrangement with the prosecution because he was going to make sure that this client was convicted of the most serious charge. Bias, right? I mean, the case hadn't even begun to be tried, and the judge was provlaiming the client guilty.

My friend filed for recusal. His motion ultimately went all the way to the state Supreme Court. He lost.

Not every judge in Texas will have contributed to MoveOn.org, so it won't be too long before the recusal motions by DeLay's lawyers would be denied, and the trial will go forward.

However, I also expect for DeLay's lawyers to move for a change in venue. That, after all, was what DeGuerin did in his previous high-profile case against Ronnie Earle ... and that will slow things down some more.

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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 07:27 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Kinda"
But for a change of venue, the standard is that the local jury pool has been "poisoned" by negative publicity, thus making it impossible to seat an honest and fair jury.

There has to be a standard for poisoning the jury pool against the prosecutor too, no? Like, say, through tv ads attacking him?

If Delay were so convinced of his innocence, why does he have to campain for acquittal?


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Lisapooh 12664 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 09:40 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
well, considering that right here in good old Colln county a judge who was having an affair with a prosecutor in a death penalty case didn't recuse herself, it seems like this is a pretty minor conflict in comparison.

Of course, there is a big difference between the defendants in the two cases - one is the mighty Tom Delay and the other is just some poor kid who got within a week of being executed and who still sits on death row.

It's funny how no Plano-ites get too concerned about Charles Hood but their designer panties are all wadded up about Mr. Delay.

Texas justice. yee effing haw.

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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 09:45 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
My panties are all wadded up over Mr. Delay, but probably not in the same way as the Plano-ites.
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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 09:48 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
It seems to me that the Democratic party hacks should want judge Perkins to step aside.

If he were to be found guilty in a Perkins court, the right could hold him up as a martyr and rally around him; there is the obvious conflict of interest here, even if Perkins wore blinders. If he is found not guilty, it goes away.

If he were to be found guilty in a more "friendly" court, the left has the best of both worlds. Justice and political advantage. If he would be found not guilty, they have the rally point, claiming (true or not, doesn't matter) that he shopped for a judge that wouldn't let him be convicted. And of course, a conviction has its obvious advantages.

Seems clear to me that they should let Delay get his new judge and jury. Theoretically justice should be served, and even if he is found not guilty they have the political advantage.

After all, they did shop 4 different grand juries until they found the right one

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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-05, 12:07 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: And DeLay Gets His Way"
So, in conclusion, judges who duck hunt with litagees should also be recused?




Just askin.

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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-05, 09:44 AM (EST)
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26. "More info...."
Looks like Delay's people tried to help out his spend happy lobbist.

DeLay's Staff Tried to Help Abramoff


sig by PM and bouncy by IceCat

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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-05, 02:49 PM (EST)
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27. "And then the prosecutor gets his way..."
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-05 AT 02:55 PM (EST)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/13072825.htm

Again, recusal is about the "perception," not the reality. Nevertheless, Earle's statements from his motion in the linked article make me wonder if he really has a case or if this whole thing is just political, as DeLay claims -- because prosecutors are usually VERY circumspect in recusal motions. They don't say things like:

"Governor Perry was a major figure in the redistricting effort that (DeLay) successfully argued. Because Judge Schraub has donated to Governor Perry, he has disclosed through this free speech that he agrees in principle with Perry's agenda regarding Tom DeLay's redistricting map."

See, that's a campaign speech, not a motion for recusal. A motion for recusal is more normally something about how the judge's presence on the case contributes to a perception of bias, due, say, to the close ties between Governor Perry and Tom DeLay in the redistricting effort.

Soylent Green: recycling America, one person at a time.

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