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"Kim and Jill"
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redsoxfan 149 desperate attention whore postings
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03-02-06, 05:46 PM (EST)
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"Kim and Jill"
LAST EDITED ON 03-02-06 AT 05:52 PM (EST)

At Cygnus X1's suggestion, I'm moving the Kim and Jill thread to this forum. I did a search to make sure no one else had done it yet. Apparently not, so here goes.
I'm sure every one of Jill's HM's has, at one time or another, had conflict with her. But all, save one, have been able to put it behind them and respond as true friends to the news of her graduation.
Kim, on the other hand, is glad that she's leaving. What a cold hearted b!tch. So Jill didn't bond with her? Has anyone else? Not that I've seen. Seems like she hasn't gotten along with any of her HM's. Doesn't that make her the common denominator?
Kim may think, that with Jill gone and her the senior HG, can lord it over the rest of them. But, she could be in for quite an awakening when the new HG arrives!

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-02-06 1
   RE: Kim and Jill Cleverone 03-02-06 2
       RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-03-06 3
           RE: Kim and Jill kawyar 03-04-06 16
           RE: Kim and Jill chickadee 03-06-06 36
       RE: Kim and Jill Lanna42 03-03-06 6
       RE: Kim and Jill ddramcgee 03-04-06 18
           RE: Kim and Jill SHESHE 03-04-06 19
 RE: Kim and Jill eire_heart74 03-03-06 4
   RE: Kim and Jill SASSI 03-03-06 5
       RE: Kim and Jill DarkMoon 03-03-06 7
           RE: Kim and Jill elfwoman 03-03-06 8
               RE: Kim and Jill redsoxfan 03-03-06 9
               RE: Kim and Jill SHESHE 03-04-06 20
                   A word of advice Cygnus X1 03-04-06 24
           RE: Kim and Jill Redbud 03-03-06 11
 RE: Kim and Jill Redbud 03-03-06 10
   RE: Kim and Jill Lanna42 03-04-06 14
       RE: Kim and Jill SOfan0221 03-04-06 15
       RE: Kim and Jill MizJazmine 03-05-06 25
 RE: Kim and Jill imamrs 03-03-06 12
   RE: Kim and Jill justdoit 03-04-06 13
       RE: Kim and Jill Lanna42 03-04-06 22
   RE: Kim and Jill Redbud 03-04-06 21
 RE: Kim and Jill Shabbylou 03-04-06 17
   RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-04-06 23
       RE: Kim and Jill SeasonedRefinement 03-05-06 26
           RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-05-06 27
               RE: Kim and Jill SeasonedRefinement 03-05-06 28
                   RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-05-06 29
                       RE: Kim and Jill sharnina 03-05-06 30
                           RE: Kim and Jill SeasonedRefinement 03-06-06 31
                               RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-06-06 32
                                   RE: Kim and Jill Lanna42 03-06-06 33
                                       RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-06-06 34
                                           RE: Kim and Jill Lanna42 03-06-06 35
                                               RE: Kim and Jill SeasonedRefinement 03-06-06 37
                                                   RE: Kim and Jill Shazbot 03-07-06 39
                                                       RE: Kim and Jill SOfan0221 03-08-06 40
                                                           RE: Kim and Jill Lanna42 03-09-06 44
                                               RE: Kim and Jill kawyar 03-06-06 38
 RE: Kim and Jill lovemydogdude 03-08-06 41
   RE: Kim and Jill SeasonedRefinement 03-08-06 42
   RE: Kim and Jill GuyStartingOver 03-08-06 43

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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
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03-02-06, 10:24 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I fault the LC's for again throwing a new HG to the wolves then just sitting back and watching what happened. They should have intervened when Kim arrived but instead they just let the demons take over. Jill being the senior should have been able to demonstrate more compassion for Kim, if she had..all of their subsequant reactions would have been transformed. I realize Kim's difficult but Jill helped alienate her from her HM's IMO.

I understand Kim's reaction to Jill's graduation FINALLY arriving..I wish she had done the SILENT happy dance rather than making her feelings known..not because I don't think she should be honest..but because I believe it would have protected her from further damage with the remaining HM's. She has plenty to deal with and the less drama the better she will be able to exert her energies into the proper channels.

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Cleverone 759 desperate attention whore postings
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03-02-06, 11:05 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Kim and Jill"
LAST EDITED ON 03-02-06 AT 11:10 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 03-02-06 AT 11:08PM (EST)

LMDD...I have a hard time finding fault with the LC's for Kim's inability to get along when she entered the SO house. Kim came in with a chip on her shoulders...she was holding grudges from her past...which was difficult, but Kim can't go on blaming the world for her abuse...if she wants satisfaction, she needs to get her revenge on the two people who perpetrated the abuse on her. Noooo, she let's them off scott-free!...while the rest of the world pays!!!!

This "insipid little wench" (strong terminology,I know, but that's how I feel about Kim...and to think I even felt sorry for her up until she showed her real a## with her "I'm glad she's leaving......" comment(authentic or not), it shows exactly what I was alluding to...in an instant, she lost any sympathy that I felt for her...she's a "MEAN, SPITEFUL, ILL-SPIRITED WOMAN" who's going to continue to have problems simply because of WHO SHE IS!

I can't think of anything that Jill could've done that would have made things any different aside from kissing Kim's a## and that wasn't happening...nobody's worth that.

I don't see Kim changing, she's lost and will always hold grudges...which will be her own undoing.

Redsoxfan ...I believe it was your post in the other thread as well as this one...makes plenty of sense and I agree totally....Kim may rue the day she wished Jill ill-will...she's going to need friends and (IMO) Jill extended her a "hand" inspite of their differences, but Kim is too selfish and self-centered to recognize that true friends don't always come up to you wagging their tails behind them and licking you like a puppy...they come "in your face" and help mirror you to yourself so that you may see who you are in all your strengths, weaknesses and glory. Jill personified this to Kim and she didn't take advantage...and for this and only this...I feel sorry for her.


****************************
"I walk in my own shoes..."
****************************

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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 03:56 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Kim and Jill"
The information the producers got out of Kim (confessional) was strategically placed to enhance our distaste for Kim. I believe they do this manipulative editing to get our goat such as they got yours..but do you remember for example when Iyanla (in the midst of Kim's chaos) had her lay in the middle of the floor and throw a tantrum..that was IMO not the right setting and the chaos in the house prevented her from moving forward til resolved. The LC's left Kim hanging in so many respects and she paid..dearly..still will JMO.
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kawyar 58 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 09:48 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Kim and Jill"
When Kim was newly arrived, wasn't there a kerfufle with her laundry routine? She left a note on the dryer for others to not transfer laundry from washer to dryer, and then someone crossed out "the laundry" and wrote in "Kim's laundry"...?! Does anyone recall who that was?

I remember the sniggering that went on at the kitchen table about that. If I were in Kim's shoes, I certainly would be feeling that not just Jill, but everyone at the house was against me, and I for one, would not have the courage or fortitude to ignore that and keep on working on my issues.

I do also feel that the LC's did not help Kim with this situation. Of course, we don't know everything that goes on, but that kind of ganging up would have me packing and leaving that house pronto!

I like Kim. She's a refreshing change from that "kiss, kiss, stab, stab, luv ya, mean it!" mindset. So she doesn't like Jill and is glad that the diva's leaving. Why is that such a bad thing? Jill certainly earned that dislike with her initial disdain about Kim's attempts to ingratiate herself within the group. Not only that, but Jill also fanned the flames by getting Christie to take her side by gossiping about Kim.... "I'll tell you to shut the f* up if I think you're talking too much..." (Christie to Kim on her first or second day there). Hello?! It's a surprise that Kim's glad to see Jill go?


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chickadee 41 desperate attention whore postings
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03-06-06, 09:57 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Kim and Jill"

Lovemydogdude, Is there anyway you can e-mail me? I don't know how its donefrom these boards, I'm fairly new. I need to give you a message. Thank You.

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Lanna42 263 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 01:10 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Well said Cleverone.As usual I couldn't agree more.Kim was to blind to bury the hatchet with Jill when she extended the olive branch. And not wishing Jill well on her graduation was just plain vindictive.No one was asking her to fake her way through a jump for joy with Jill.But it wouldn't have killed her to wish her well. Much less,throw in that she so glad to see her go. The poor little victim routine who expects everyone around her to pay for and make up for her past wears thin REALLY fast. She wore it out with me on about the first day. I can't imagine living with her as the housemates had to or her poor longsuffering husband does. And he brings her(gasp of horror)roses for it.Well...I guess she's nice looking that must be some consolation.If he can get her to stop complaining long enough to sleep with him. She had a rough childhood. But when I compare her to some of the more compassionate,empathetic past houseguests (Rachel,Candy,Cassie)she really loses her attractiveness fast.Better start soaking in the Oil Of Olay now Kim the cute as a button routine only lasts so long when you are vindictive and nasty towards everyone around you who dares confront you.
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ddramcgee 15 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 12:17 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I couldn't agree more! I was trying real hard to understand where she was coming from until she let that nasty comment fly. I think Kim has way to high of expectations of everyone around her-nobody can meet them and Jill wasn't about to jump thru Kim's hoops. Remember her notes on the washer? How rediculous was that??? C'mon Kim-you're in the SO house don't you have other things to worry about? She doesn't know how to listen, how can she-she never shuts up. She yaks her fool head until everybody tunes her out. I also think shes glad to see Jill go because she wants the Alpha position in the house.
The LC's need to revisit TJ's exercise with the silence/flash cards on on Kim.....
OOOOOooorrr...
Just drop a house on that witch and put her out of her misery.
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SHESHE 2 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 12:48 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I know that's right sister!!! i agree 100%
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eire_heart74 1231 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 07:55 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Kim's in entitled to her opinion on Jill. Jill wasn't exactly a ball full of sunshine welcoming warmth to her. I respect both for their honesty.

They didn't get along. You meet people in your life and sometimes there is just no middle ground. I think Kim could of been a bigger person and just said "good for you" and let it drop at that. She's wasting alot of her energy not liking someone that doesn't like her. So what? Cut your lost and move on!

I will be curious to see if there will another housemate though that Kim starts to really dislike. Because then we will see that there is always someone if her life that she starts drama with.

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SASSI 110 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 10:08 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I used to be like kim....can relate very well to her...when someone hurts her...just even one time...her wall in her heart goes up...it will come down....i hope for her sake

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DarkMoon 32 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 02:54 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Kim said horrible things about Jill. I beleive Jill said in her diary that she tried over and over to be friendly to Kim but she did not respond to her. When Kim said Jill has been in the house 3 months Jill said I have not been counting but obviously u have meaning Kim. Maybe they did show Kim saying what she did and edited in for us to hate her. They have not shown Jill trying to be friendly with Kim. Kim is so obsessed with having all the original women out so the new group of women can be in charge. Kim needs to get her sh** together. The houseguest don't even want to talk to her.
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elfwoman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 04:19 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I am ambivalent towards Kim. I hope for her and her family's sake that she can heal her wounds and make a better life for herself. I didn't see anything wrong with the comment she made concerning Jill's graduation. IMO, if she had joined the tear-fest at the table, I would have thought her a hypocrite. She has been happy for all of Jill's successes in the SO house, but the way Jill has treated her is unfair. To me, it struck me as immature of Jill to act irritated that Kim wasn't more sad at her leaving. Jill knows that they don't have the best relationship, and why she expected anything but Kim's actual response is just another way of showing that attitude of "You must act like I want you to act, or you will not be worthy of my attention." I happen to like Jill for the most part, and I sincerely wish her happiness and the best life possible, but I think it's way past time for her to be gone.
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redsoxfan 149 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 04:37 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I didn't notice Jill acting irritated. I doubt she gave a rat's a$$ what Kim thought. I know, with four other HM's supporting me, I wouldn't.
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SHESHE 2 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 01:08 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Kim and Jill"
IMO I think that you have it all backwards, Jill said nothing that I can recall bad at all. I think she did have alot of baggage coming into SO but the LC's showed her and taught her how and what to do with it, I'm very proud of the way she took her excercises and learned from each & every one of them, some HG's have no clue (Kim???) she does her excercises yes, but doesn't try out the lessons at all just yak,yak,yak, I'm right, and you are wrong is how she comes off to me. I want everyone to better themselves but you have to really want to. But hey imo & yoo!!!
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Cygnus X1 7505 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 07:31 PM (EST)
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24. "A word of advice"
Hi, SHESHE, and welcome to the boards.

You'll want to read this message from fellow moderator MysticWolf about bashing other posters. You didn't quite do so here, but you came close when you said "I think that you have it all backwards."

A better way to say that might have been, "I think it's the other way around," which doesn't reference the POSTER, but the IDEA.

And make sure you (and everyone else) read the guidelines, linked at the top of each page. Thanks!

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Redbud 573 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 06:17 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Kim and Jill"
>Kim said horrible things about Jill.
> I beleive Jill said
>in her diary that she
>tried over and over to
>be friendly to Kim but
>she did not respond to
>her. When Kim said
>Jill has been in the
>house 3 months Jill said
>I have not been counting
>but obviously u have meaning
>Kim. Maybe they did
>show Kim saying what she
>did and edited in for
>us to hate her.
>They have not shown Jill
>trying to be friendly with
>Kim. Kim is so
>obsessed with having all the
>original women out so the
>new group of women can
>be in charge. Kim
>needs to get her sh**
>together. The houseguest don't
>even want to talk to
>her.


Of course entries in Jill's diaries are merely Jill's interpretation. I'm sure Kim's take on the subject is entirely different. Nevertheless, I have no affection or attraction to any of the remaining personalities in the house. Couldn't care less about them except for Kim. I believe she has had a horror of a childhood and should be applauded just for having survived it. As for the other HGs not wanting to talk to her...I say WOOHOO....none of them are worth worrying about. Kim certainly has her problems, but just like TJ, she's getting the shaft.

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Redbud 573 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 06:13 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Personally I think SOH knows exact what they are doing. By throwing in "newbies" with an established closeknit group of women who are much further ahead in their "therapy" they are are inviting conflict and drama. It's what makes good tv!! Now that being said...my hat is off to Kim. She did not have a close bond with Jill and to her credit she was not fake and she didn't put on a "so sorry to see you go" facade. I have met far too many phonies, who would tell you how much they'll miss you and then the moment you're out the door they're talking about how glad they are you're gone! At least Kim stood in her truth (as IV would say). No BS. I admire that.
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Lanna42 263 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 06:50 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Oh,Kim is REAL alright. A real nasty,mean spirited #####.There's nothing fake about her that's for sure. She doesn't need "creative editing" to make her look bad her mouth does that for her.I don't think any of the houseguests should be asked to support each other.Just look out for number one.And if your small child gets sick or your husband is unhappy just kick their feelings aside too.All that matters is that you get the attention you feel entitled to.And no matter how hard anyone tries to please you make sure they know their efforts are NEVER enough.Push anyone out of the way that you have to so you can be at the top of heap. Their feelings don't matter.Or at least this is Kim's way of thinking.
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SOfan0221 828 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 08:41 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I agree. And like another poster noted, you don't bond with everyone you meetin in life. Jill and Kim just didn't bond. Doesn't mean though that Kim has to be mean mouthed about it. There is still such as thing as respect, obviously she has none.

When Kim made her list of 10 people that she 'loved' and that 'loved' her and she listed every single thing she perceived they had ever done to her that spoke volumes as to the type of person she is. She keeps score and she tries to even the score. She is lucky to have 19 people in her life imo. Imagine what she could have accomplished had she put her little score card away and lived her life.

AS for Jill, I wish her luck. I liked her and I liked her style in the house as far as her humor and how she got along with most of the houseguests.

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MizJazmine 532 desperate attention whore postings
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03-05-06, 06:09 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: Kim and Jill"
HAHAHAHAHA....I Hear ya Lanna42

It's amazing to me how Kim had FIVE other women in that house who were willing to be her friend. Jodi came in and said she wasn't picking sides. Christie is Kim's roommate. nuLisa seemed to initially hit it off with Kim, and to Lisa(1)'s credit seemed to stay out of the whole conflict (at least that's how it looked to me). Then there's Kelly a newbie who apparently had a conversation with Kim that became some kind of misunderstanding. No matter what was going on, Jill was just one person out of FIVE that Kim didn't click with...that's life.

Kim had just as much a chance to make friends with those women as Jill did. Jill and Kim were both there when all these women arrived. I don't believe for one minute that Jill turned anybody against anybody. Those women were not under some kind of hypnotic spell or mind control. They've all gotten to experience each other 24/7 with camera's and without camera's. They are all adult women who are free to make their own choices in friendship. Those women chose Jill as a friend and from what I've seen not Kim. I don't think it was ever an either/or scenario. I just think Kim is self-serving (it's all about Kim), and the women sense it or see it.

Kim's words and attitude toward Jill's graduating were spiteful and vindictive. IMO there was nothing honest about it. Kim holds grudges and she laid in wait to have her little say. In doing so it made her look like the small person she is. So I'm not surprised that Kim couldn't rise to the occasion. Look at the level she sunk to. I'm just glad that everybody else ignored her ignorant behind and celebrated the occasion with Jill anyhow

Kim was probably sitting in the back (rightfully so) of Jill's graduation in orgasmic bliss thinking, "mines...mines...SOH WITH NEWBIES IT'S ALL MINES!" with her delusional self....

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imamrs 59 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-06, 09:28 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Kim and Jill"
If I am not mistaken, I believe LC Rhonda said that none of housemates truly know the horrors Kim sufferred as a child. I think if they did they may treat her different.

While I respect Jill's hard work, I felt that she received the deluxe, extra special treatment. They found her father, helped her find a job, helped her lose weight, got her new glasses, new hair, and more. I felt towards the end, as her "self-empowerment" grew the more arrogant she became. Kim and Jill never really had a chance to click. There was tension from the start and no real effort made to resolve it. I am very glad Jill has left the house and crossed fingers moved on.

On the other hand, Kim needed to refrain from speaking her mind at Jill's graduation. Since she cannot vent her anger at her parents, she lashes out at everyone else. Kim is still trying to win her parents love. Until she figures out that she is better off without them, lets go of the dream of a happy, loving reunion, and releases her pent up RAGE towards them, she is not going to interact well with anyone else. How she has stayed married is beyond me.

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justdoit 16 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 00:22 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Kim's situation might have been much different if TJ had stayed and Jill had gone. With a crushed spirit she will need a great deal of kindness and acceptance to heal. I think her healing will come through "venting". Jill is more about having others support whatever she thinks, not listening.

Sometimes it's OK to be glad a situation is changing. I think Kim voiced what many of us have been thinking.

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Lanna42 263 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 04:16 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Most of the housemates heard Kim's story about having been abandoned by her Mother and abused by her Father. I think they are aware of the gist of what happened to her although they may not know all the details. Kim acts as though the whole world OWES HER to deal with her ungratefulness and nasty attitude because she happened to have a couple of loser parents who abused her. That is NOT the housemates fault and the world DOES NOT OWE HER ANYTHING because she was abused.Actually venting at them is going to make life more miserable for her.I have seen them make an effort to reach out to her and understand her.She doesn't respond except with selfishness.So eventually people stop trying. I agree with you about one thing. Some houseguests seem to get more the royal treatment than others Jill included.That seems alittle unbalanced. Still Kim's response seemed mean-spirited to me even if she didn't much care for her. Maybe Kim will get it and change. Who knows.Until then I have no sympathy for her "poor me" routine.Look at how compassionately Candy and Rachel handled their abusive and neglectful childhoods.You didn't see them lashing out in rages and selfishness towards other people. Or expecting others to cater to their every whim.
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Redbud 573 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

03-04-06, 04:10 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Kim and Jill"
>If I am not mistaken, I
>believe LC Rhonda said that
>none of housemates truly know
>the horrors Kim sufferred as
>a child. I think if
>they did they may treat
>her different.
>
>While I respect Jill's hard work,
>I felt that she received
>the deluxe, extra special treatment.
>They found her father, helped
>her find a job, helped
>her lose weight, got her
>new glasses, new hair, and
>more. I felt towards the
>end, as her "self-empowerment" grew
>the more arrogant she became.

I agree with this perspective except the last sentence. A hurt animal is a dangerous one. It will lash out in pain and fear. That is Kim. Some people are defending Jill. But remember the footage of Jill and Christine in the yard where Jill is complaining about Kim and how she is a mole put there to cause pain and how Jill just can't get along with her? How is that okay, but Kim's comment about Jill leaving is mean spirited? Sometimes honesty isn't pretty. But Jill has had benefit of 3 months of LCing so where is her understanding with Kim? Yes, Kim is difficult, yes, she lacks compassion, but given what she has received her entire life, I can understand it. Jill (who is still my favorite HG) has been given the Queen treatment by IV these past several months - Kim is just starting her journey, and she isn't the favorite that Jill and Jessica were to the LCs. When Kim begins to "get it", I believe she'll change her attitude toward others. If you're talking about mean spirited - look no further than Christie.

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Shabbylou 4 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

03-04-06, 10:50 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Honestly Kim B. father screwed her up so bad that I think she is not capable of feeling anything for anyone! Therefore, it was impossible for her to feel any joy for Jill, she will be the same way when other housemate leave.
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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-06, 04:32 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I agree upthread that if TJ had stayed and Jill had left..Kim's situation would overall be much better in that house. IMO Kim didn't do anything wrong when she came to the house, she just doesn't know how to communicate appropriately, she tried WAY too hard to get the other women to like her, and was VERY let down when they didn't.

Jill was very disappointing when she turned to gossiping about Kim and IMO she put up a wall immediately. If Jill would have demonstrated more patience..the others would have followed her lead. If Kim weren't struggling with the basic coexistence with the HM's I believe she could better focus on her personal growth. If they were more compassionate Kim could also accept their constructive critism on a whole new level.

Remember when IV had Kim lay on the floor in the middle of group and try to throw a tantrum? That was hard to watch and I think it should have been done privately with Rhonda. The bash Kim session with Rhonda was so inappropriate. They did better with TJ which is very sad.

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SeasonedRefinement 1248 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

03-05-06, 05:05 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Redbud,

I loved that post...all of it. You made some excellent points: "a hurt animal is a dangerous animal". One of the few sensible things Rhonda has said is that unless you've lived it, you cannot understand what Kim has lived through. I'm not minimizing the pain of having a parent who is a substance abuser, negligent, promiscuous, or absent, but there is another dimension involved when the physical body becomes a target. The one thing Rhonda does understand is the horror of an abusive father. I think there are parts of Rhonda that will never be what they could have been because of her hellish experiences while growing up. She is exactly the same age as me (down to the month), and I shudder to think of her watching her father shoot her mother when she was in the eighth or ninth grade. I think some of Rhonda's coldness comes from those wounded places.

That being said, I watched each episode, and I remember the Jill/Kim problem growing. It was one of the things that caused me to rethink my positive feelings for Jill. I also remember thinking that Jill was proving that months of SO assignments and meetings apparently left her with precious few "tools" in dealing with someone who "triggered" her. Actually, aside from a comment that Kim made immediately before or after someone's graduation that Jill found insidious ("are you afraid you'll lose touch with each other after you leave?"), I don't know what the real problem was except that Kim was too talkative for Jill's taste. I remember, vividly, those little meetings with Jill and Christina. I remember Jill's disc-jockey like confessionals.

Kim NEVER said, on camera no less, that she would rather "stick needles in her eyes" than to have to listen to Jill. Jill said that about Kim. Kim NEVER said that Jill was sent to "torture" her. Jill said that about Kim. That's not awful enough? What Kim DID say, on camera, was, "I'm glad Jill's leaving". What would have been more appropriate? "Oh Jill, I'll miss you so much. You've become my sister from another mother, a wise grandmother speaking such wisdom, my friend, boo-hoo, sob, sniffle." It would have gone a long way in adding to that overblown Jill graduation montage, but it would have been fake.

Is anyone really surprised? Jill is loud and large; she's intimidating. She became incredibly insecure and territorial as the "sensational six" began to go their own ways (are they serious, the "sensational six"? - the whole house was put on probation, and they verbally sliced each other on a daily basis!). Jill began to see a facility as her home. If it was Jill's home, it was just as much Kim's home.

I think the initial friction did alot in side-tracking Kim's progress. Instead of focusing on her childhood issues, she was gauging a silent house war in which she was the enemy. Remember Rhonda's meeting with the HG's..."let's break Kim?" Unbelievable. So now Kim is a cold-hearted ##### because the woman who, in her eyes (and mine), started the anti-Kim sentiment is leaving. I think she's just a normal human being.

*******************************************

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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"

03-05-06, 06:23 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Seasoned I love your post!
Yes how could we forget all the negative statements Jill made about Kim (thanks for the specific reminders) and Kim has made none. Her comment re: Jill leaving wasn't even aimed at Jill..instead it was just her honest feelings ABOUT Jill leaving. I agree that I'd rather see this than fakey farewells. My only worry if for Kim worsening her problem with the remaining HM's by being so honest..she doesn't need more problems. Overall kudos to Kim though.

Jill also included Kim in her online blog. The show wasn't enough..she had to make sure and belittle her on her website too.

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SeasonedRefinement 1248 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

03-05-06, 08:22 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Kim and Jill"
LMDD,

Thanks for the compliment. You're always so nice!

I don't follow Jill's journal on a regular basis. I only look when a poster references it. I think I remember the post you're talking about though. It was sort of double-sided...something like, "Kim is a _____________________________ (something negative), but I know this is my issue. I have to deal with these feelings that Kim triggers, etc." Is that the one?

Maybe one day Kim will put up a journal. It would be interesting to see how all of this stuff actually made HER feel. I know all too well how Jill feels.


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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"

03-05-06, 09:03 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Kim and Jill"
To be very honest I didn't actually read it but I remember a poster saying that Jill put in her journal how much she disliked her. Perhaps I shouldn't have brought it up if I didn't know all the details but oh well..what's done is done lol. Journal time bashing Kim coincided with TV time so she had plenty of time to think about it before she placed it online. I think she did it so that we wouldn't think she was the meany she is.

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sharnina 3075 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

03-05-06, 10:14 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Hey LMDD, if you want to read this here is the link to her archived entries. The entries in question are January 20 and 24. They don't make her look very good.

http://journals.aol.com/jilltracey/JillTraceytotheFullest/archive/2006/1

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SeasonedRefinement 1248 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

03-06-06, 01:12 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Hey Sharnina,

Thanks for the links. I wouldn't want to spend time going through the journal to find the right entry. You're right, they don't make Jill look good.

Jill and another HG laughed at Kim because she was talking way too much at dinner? That's funny coming from the loudest person in the house (maybe EVER). Wow...3 apologies didn't undo that public insult? Yes, I guess Kim just enjoys "being stuck" in a bad place.

So Jill admits that she did have a "relapse" and treated Kim in ways she wouldn't want to be treated. But Kim really should understand. Jill was so stressed out about her upcoming mock trial that she basically couldn't think straight. Geez, if she didn't get leniency, she couldn't graduate.

Did anyone let Jill know that this wasn't a REAL trial and that she could leave the house anytime she wanted to?


*******************************************

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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"

03-06-06, 01:53 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Thx Skimmed over it and NOPE I'm not impressed. Looks like she was just covering her a$$ because she KNEW she looked bad. At one point she says maybe she had too much time on her hands before her trial then later says she was overwhelmed preparing for trial WTF?

Either way there's no excuse for the way she treated Kim. Jill had been there long enough to graduate! Rhonda said it was normal to revert back to type in a situation like this..well HELLO real Jill. I hope it weighs heavy on her heart how deeply she wronged Kim..and the effects it has had on Kim's overall SOH experience.

Jill says "I mean it's not like the first house didn't have our own drama. Geez. But somehow it was easier for us 'cause we were all dealing with our stuff at the same time."
**Easier huh? Is that what you were looking for? Was it all about YOU and YOUR SOH experience..I think so!!!

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Lanna42 263 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

03-06-06, 05:36 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I could chalk up Kim's problems with Jill as a simple personality conflict between two people except that it seems to be the consensus of more than just Jill that she is as Lisa2 pointed out "selfish and constantly complaining." Her husband who lives with her full time also pointed this out on more than one occasion. Have all these different people misjudged Kim's character? Wow, she really is a pitiful victim then. People just gang up on her for no reason. Now that Jill is history I'm sure Kim will get along perfectly with everyone.Right?Personally,I don't think this will be the case but prove me wrong Kim.
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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
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03-06-06, 06:36 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: Kim and Jill"
LAST EDITED ON 03-06-06 AT 06:42 AM (EST)

IMO Kim obviously has many issues. That's why she's there. This is probably the first time she has ever been able to talk so freely..and perhaps she got carried away but she was never taught how to deal with those feelings. She didn't know how to control them. She wasn't raised with healthy communication skills which only compounded matters. She's managed to marry and has friends so she can't be all that bad. Sure hubby admits she needs help..but he's supporting her SO stay.

If Jill could get along with TJ she could have helped Kim. IMO Jill just didn't want to try..too much effort..she's lazy AND she saw herself as way too far ahead in the game to meet Kim on her level. She was looking at the situation as "you're not going to ruin the rest of MY stay in this house" instead of trying to empathize with KIM'S stay in the house. She could have led by example in many more positive ways. Instead of the queen "calling a meeting" she should have been calling calling calling the LC's. While Jill was preparing for this "meeting" she was gathering HM's and venting to them in the meantime.

I think Jill was so glad that the original 6 were "all better" and wanted the rest of her SO stay to be cupcake stories and computer play time. When Kim arrived her bubble burst and she didn't want to deal with it. She reverted right back to gradeschool. JMO

edited to add: Her online journal..where she posts REAL time..looks to me like she's just wanting to create her own little forum. People can leave comments..she can respond..sound familiar?..lol She's been crazy enough to come here to the boards (despite warnings) and it's been driving her NUTS..SOoo nuts that she actually created her own site to discuss the episodes via Jill's journal. A place where she can try to redeem herself. Who's miserable?

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Lanna42 263 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

03-06-06, 07:45 AM (EST)
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35. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I've never been overly fond of Jill either so I'm with you on one point.She could have been a little more sensitive to Kim's problems.Given that she was new to the house and trying to find her niche.Not that I think anyone OWES IT to kim to put up with her self-centered tantrums.Just more patience was in order.We haven't heard that much from Kim's husband but after he got through describing their life together and I realized he is taking care of their son(probably for months alone)and working and bringing her flowers while Kim works out her issues(and gripes) I wanted to send the POOR guy a fruit basket.Then I SNAPPED BACK to my senses and remembered it's ALL about Kim.I could be wrong but I got the impression he has about had it with her.Maybe she'll change or not.I have to admit her histrionic hissy fits are entertaining.
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SeasonedRefinement 1248 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"

03-06-06, 11:40 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I'm not willing to jump on any bandwagon that says "Kim is a misunderstood victim". I have no doubt that she can be a real #####, especially when she feels misunderstood or threatened. I've seen her bad behavior - but that house is full of bad behavior. I certainly wouldn't single her out as being unusually heinous.

I don't know anything about her outside life except what I have seen. So, with the phone conversations and actual screen time of her husband, it may be little more than 20 minutes of observable footage. I saw enough of her son to know that he adores his mother (a very different child than the children of Chloe and Christina). I do remember her husband saying that he loved Kim very much and he was committed to her. I also remember her calling several friends for an assignment, so she can't be totally toxic 100% of the time.

The time has come, and may be overdue, for Kim to face her demons and let herself grow up. In so many areas of her thinking and reasoning, she's back at the roach motel with dad. Children live what they learn, as they say. You live in a war zone, you become a fighter. You live with guerilla warfare, you learn to anticipate ambushes. Kim is no Maria von Trapp or Mary Poppins. She is wired to self-destruct or burn-out, and without help, that's probably what will happen.

Occasionally a few women come through the house who have experienced some of the most painful things that life hands out. A little girl being abandoned by her mom to become a punching bag for a deranged father in a filthy house is pretty horrific stuff. Of course she has big issues. Who wouldn't?

That being said, Kim deserved a fair chance on her first day in the house. Actually, I recall Jill's first day in the house (and she had the benefit of being on equal footing with the other women). I remember Jill pulling away from the other ladies, deciding which ones were bitches and who she was going to stay away from. She broke away from the group and called her mother to complain about them. I don't remember Kim doing anything nearly as anti-social or divisive.

Jill is a big talker. She has a selfish streak in her a mile wide. The woman made her living off of digging through people's garbage cans looking for humiliating "evidence" that those poor suckers didn't think of shredding. (Yeah, that's where Oprah started...) Their mistake became Jill's opportunity to regale her listeners with dirt and draw attention to herself in the process. She is a professional slanderer, and she is good at knowing exactly what to say, and how to say it, to give people negative opinions of strangers. Rarely have I seen a non-celebrity so taken with her own ability to turn a phrase.

Whatever Kim may be, she did not deserve to be put in Jill's crosshairs simply because she had the misfortune of being the first outsider to break the ranks of the "sensational six". If the situation were reversed and it was Jill who had the distinction of being HG #7 and Kim who started a campaign against her, I'd be defending Jill in this situation.

I am convinced that each of the women who listened to Jill's bitching and moaning about Kim were prejudiced against her. Nothing new there, that's the way it works. That's unfortunate because you cannot have a second chance at making a first impression.

It wasn't about Kim - not this particular issue - Kim was a variable. It was about Jill. Jill knows that and has addressed it in her journal. The damage is done - too little too late.

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Shazbot 226 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

03-07-06, 02:05 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I have never seen so many long postings on a topic. I do think Kim's journey is just fascinating... and is obviously resonating with people on many levels.

I've stated before that I like Jill, but I agree with you wholeheartedly Seasoned Refinement that she does have a real mean streak - tacky streak - revealing just how insecure she is, I think.

So there's Kim, early in the house, a new, risky experience... and here to set the tone is someone who will trash you to all the housemates you'll be sharing it with. Isolate an isolated person... that ought to go over well. It sure allowed Jill some power.

And now how the other housemates are all standing there yelling at Kim while she's on the computer... I can only imagine they're reflecting to Kim the denial that existed in her own extended family about what she went through... because the housemates don't get it either!

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SOfan0221 828 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"

03-08-06, 07:24 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I do not deny that Kim had a horrible, horrible childhood. As have many of us.

Having said that I beleive that Kim's frame of reality is that if you don't kiss her a$$ then you are her enemy. And she keeps very close score of every slight that she 'perceives' someone has gave her.

Jill and her didn't click. And that is real life. Not everyone is going to be either Jill or Kim's friend.

Kim evened the score by mouthing off when Jill found out she was graduating. She has been waiting for her chance to be reigning senior member. Guess it hasn't worked out that way for her.

I see a lot of improvement in Kim, but she has a long, long way to go before she becomes the loving person she wants to be.

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Lanna42 263 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

03-09-06, 08:14 AM (EST)
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44. "RE: Kim and Jill"
I may be the only one who makes a distinction between Kim's self-centered attitudes and her past abuse. But I don't think her abuse NESSACARILY caused her to become selfish and self-centered. There are a lot of selfish,self-centered people out there and they were not all abused. Some people just feel ENTITLED. Jill is a prime example of that as far as I am concerned. She did display some selfish behavior while in the house and she owned it. Not that it was correct but she didn't try to pass it off on her childhood problems.

Clearly her husband and son love Kim. It is possible to love someone and still be exasperated with their behavior to the point of exhaustion. And I give Kim credit for apparently having been a better Mother to Jax than her Mother was to her.Not that it would have taken much to do that. Although I don't get being jealous of your own husband because your child asked for him and not you when he was sick. I certainly would not suggest that husbands shouldn't participate in child care. I was suggesting that many of them WOULDN'T for months at a time.

It is going to take a lot more than a few broken plates or eggs for Kim to let go of her misplaced rage. The anger over the childhood abuse may never go away entirely. But if she aims it at her family or the world at large she is going to self-destruct.And the world is not going to CARE if she was abused or not.They are going to hold her alone accountable for HER behavior.

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kawyar 58 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

03-06-06, 12:38 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Aah, her husband's no saint! She's been doing all the childcare for Jax's early years, and now it's just his turn at the bat 8-)!

More men should find themselves in this situation. Give the moms a break for a little while, kwim.

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lovemydogdude 1253 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:11 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Kim and Jill"
Not meshing with someone in real life would be understandable but in the SOH they need to embrace all the personalities especially the newbies. Kim was shunned JMO

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SeasonedRefinement 1248 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 02:17 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Kim and Jill"
LMDD,

Excellent Point. Glad you made it.

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GuyStartingOver 79 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

03-08-06, 04:17 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Kim and Jill"
You're 100% right, and I think the original 6 from this season were terrible about that. I didn't feel like any of the new girls were really embraced right off the bat, but especially not Kim. Maybe it was because she was the first of the newbies and Lisa/Christina ran around being very vocal about their worries of how freaky, weird, and messed-up she would be. JMHO.

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