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"Not Impressed"
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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 10:46 AM (EST)
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"Not Impressed"
I am NOT impressed by Big Brother's inability to yet produce a show that is fair to ALL participants. I would say that Chicken George in the All Star show gave us the best example of how patheticly organized the Big Brother show really is.

Those of you who watched the Big Brother All Star show will likely recall how more than once Chicken George said things like "Thank you for letting me stay this long." Another words... Chicken George basicly knew he wasn't winning the game and that his time in the house was based on the grace of other game participants.

Now I just have to ask. How is it a fair game to ALL particpants when at any given time in the game a person's continueing particpation in the game is solely based on another particants permission? Think about that for a moment. Did Chicken George throughout his complete stay in the house have an even opportunity to win the game as all the other particants he currently shared the house with? Was the opportunity for Chicken George to stay 1 week longer based on the game itself and its competitions, POVs, etc. or did Chicken George pretty much have to ask the Evil Dr. Wil for permission to stay longer? How many other people basicly needed the Evil Dr.'s permission to stay longer? How many of "you" think thats fair?

But lets forget that patheticness for a moment. Lets take a closer look at the competitions. Aren't they the most useless fraction of the show? Does anyone on the show actually participate competitively in these competitions? I have completely lost count of the people who "throw" the competitions, like the Evil Dr. Wil, who has no more interest in the competitions than the man on the moon. And no wonder. Consider the HOH competition. After competing really hard i'm jumping up and down as I am the new HOH. Now here's what is going to happen. I am going to pick 2 people to realize that I am trying to kick them out of the game, basically having them not like me very much. Then, I will watch as the POV take one of them off the Chopping Block as a force against me next week, forcing me to single out yet a third person to get mad at me who ultimately gets evicted because the Evil Dr. Wil says so as he has all the votes controlled and decides solely who stays and who goes each week, leaving in the house the two primary nominees I selected to begin with. Ok, why again did I want to be HOH?

The title of the show shouldn't be "Big Brother". It should be "Alliance of 4". As soon as you walk in the door find 3 other people who will join you in an alliance and presto, everyone else in the house will need your permission to stay. And of course, you will give it to them for a while. Then they have to go. From day #1, or day #2 if your slow at creating alliances, everyone's elses fair chance of winning the game goes flying right back out that door they just got done entering. And in the end, you have a group of people who should be quoting Chicken George as he said "i'm just thankful I was allowed to stay this long".

Once again, I am NOT impressed by Big Brother's inability to yet produce a show that is fair to ALL participants. I think "Big Brother" should be rewritten so that it fairly represents ALL participants in the game for the complete duration of the particpants stay in the house, or be cancelled, taken off the air, and completely shut down.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Not Impressed mrc 07-25-07 1
   RE: Not Impressed nailbone 07-25-07 3
       RE: Not Impressed mrc 07-25-07 4
 RE: Not Impressed Snidget 07-25-07 2
   RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 6
       RE: Not Impressed Snidget 07-25-07 7
           RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 8
               RE: Not Impressed Snidget 07-25-07 9
                   RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 11
               RE: Not Impressed mrc 07-25-07 10
                   RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 12
                       RE: Not Impressed Snidget 07-25-07 13
                           RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 14
                       RE: Not Impressed nailbone 07-25-07 15
                           RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 16
                               RE: Not Impressed nailbone 07-25-07 17
                                   RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 18
                                       RE: Not Impressed FishWoman 07-25-07 23
                                   RE: Not Impressed JoshInSGV 07-25-07 19
                                       RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 20
                                           RE: Not Impressed JoshInSGV 07-25-07 21
                                               RE: Not Impressed muzman 07-25-07 22
                                                   RE: Not Impressed MandyM 07-25-07 24
 RE: Not Impressed Glow 07-25-07 5
 I'm Not Impressed with this reasoni... michel 07-25-07 25
   RE: I'm Not Impressed with this rea... JoshInSGV 07-26-07 26
 RE: Not Impressed Shannonh2007 07-26-07 27

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mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 10:52 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Not Impressed"
I'm not impressed that this post wasn't made seven years ago when BB started. We could have saved a lot of time by implementing this change seven years ago when BB started. We could have been saved from seven additional seasons of crap.

Shar-licious
I also wonder when RTV was about reality and fairness, but that's another issue.

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 11:26 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Not Impressed"
Seven years ago, it wasn't the same as now because the viewing audience voted, rather than the hamsters.


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mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 12:22 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Not Impressed"
I guess I was too vague--the initial post doesn't include any discussion of the last five seasons of BB. I found it odd; hence, the bolding.

Shar-licious

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 11:01 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Not Impressed"
I don't know that any game is ever completely equally fair to all people playing it. Even when challenges make a difference not all people can solve a puzzle, stand on a pole, etc. equally well.

On the other hand that pick 3 people at random and ride the game to the end thing is working out so well for Kail this year.


Summertribe and the living is easy!

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 12:38 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 12:47 PM (EST)

Well... I think I would rather have my eviction from the house be based on my personal inability to put a puzzle together before anyone else instead of being robbed of a fair chance to compete because 4 people banded together to force all other participants to require their permission to stay an extra week.

Winning the Big Brother show has absolutely nothing to do with popularity, competitiveness, the competitions,HOHs, POVs, honesty, etc., etc. etc. etc.

You need only do 1 thing to win the Big Brother game. Be the first person to align yourself with 3 stupid people. With your alliance of 4... the game ... right from day 1 ... has been already decided. You win... and everyone else's participation in the game is based solely on your permission.

I think it sucks big time to see someone evicted from the house just because they're not on the "fad 4" team. Where the hell is the "game play" in that?

If they are not part of the "fad 4" by the first couple of weeks... I don't know why they don't just pack up and go home... for thats what they'll be doing soon anyway.

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 01:22 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Not Impressed"
It's a social game, not a who can win a competition game.

There are many types of games.

Pretty much every TV reality game has a social aspect if the other participants have anything to say about it.

Heck, I think even something like AI there is a still a social game aspect. Sanjaya comes to mind. He played the social game of AI like a master and rode that ability more than his singing for a really long time.

If you don't want a game with social aspects avoid most reality TV and stick to sporting events where they only thing that matters is who scored the most points. (although in some sports the social game can be seen in home field advantage and other things).

Humans are social animals, you can't expect people to forgo all social methods of getting ahead because the cameras are rolling.

Some reality shows are more heavily social than others.

Like I said Kail sure is riding that form a group of four early to win thing really well {/sarcasm} It does take more than finding three people to say yep I'll be with you as we have seen that fail (like when there are two competing strong alliances like the Nerd Herd vs the Soverign Six).

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 01:39 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Not Impressed"
I have no idea what your point is... yes... I have figured out that it is a "Social Game". Well ... Duh

And I never said the eviction each week should be decided by the competitions.

But what I did say however is... or meant to suggest is that .... there is no "Social Game" either. Socialism on Big Brother doesn't matter.

If your part of the "Fad 4" thats all that matters. You don't need social skills. You don't need to treat people nicely. You don't need to care in any way about the feelings or personal well being of others. Hell... you don't even need to talk to anyone. Just flop some blankets in a closet and sleep for the show... your alliance members can simply wake you up when everyone else has been evicted.

Explain how the "Social Game" applies to winning Big Brother.

The rule is simple... wake up... Be part of the Fad 4 and win ... or leave the house. Whats left to talk about?


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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 01:44 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 01:46 PM (EST)

I'm just saying I do not believe your point that the ONLY thing that will have you win is be part of the "fab four".

Alliances in the BB house have failed because they didn't win the HOH when they needed to and got picked apart.

Alliances are a big part of the game (as they are in any game that has a social aspect).

Again, how well is Kail's magic group of four working for her this season? Given not one of them voted with her last eviction and I dunno if they will bother to try to save her at all this week.

But she should win because she did exactly what you said. Got a magic four together.

Four people together can only control the game if the other players let them. Of course you gotta come together to break them up so I guess you will say that always forms the new magic four that will win by default?

But I suppose no one should question you at all? Sorry I didn't see your absolute 100% totally correctness.

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 02:01 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Not Impressed"
Your explanation of me being incorrect is with examples of S6 (all star game)who drifted apart (and became their own problem) and Kail's alliance that has her without the support of her alliance members. (and will end up like S6).

Sure.. if the alliance is weak and it breaks up ... sure... they'll maybe lose the game... who knows?

My explanation comes from "Chill Town". An alliance of 4 that didn't break up. (Dr. Wil, Boogie, Jenna, and Erica)

What your failing to realize is the floaters. A Fad 4 isn't just a Fad 4. You need to factor in the rest of the equation. Chill Town won because the Fad 4 had floaters... as all alliances will have. If you have 4 people in a group it is very unlikely that no floaters will exist.

Chill Town Alliance (Wil, Boogie, Jenna, and Erica) had floaters. Erica had Danielle (a close friend who she could sway here and there). Jenna had Kayzar, Wil had James, and Boogie had people like Chicken George like everyone else in the house lol.

The floaters ... which will always exist and be available to the Fad 4 for their destruction turns the Fad 4 into an uncontrollable Fad 5, or 6, or 7.... keeping in mind their own promise to each other to be the last 4 standing.

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mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 01:52 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Not Impressed"
I'm with Snidget. I don't get your point. And it's "fab 4," not "fad 4."

There are 12-14 players in BB (depending on the season). Four is not enough to control a season and choose a winner. Six isn't even enough, IMHO. Even if one is in an alliance of four or six, one still has to play the social game to keep one's allies happy and to ensure that one can get votes at the end. Wouldn't you want to be the nice person in an alliance so that the jury would vote for you at the end? I would.

Shar-licious

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 02:13 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 02:20 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 02:16PM (EST)

You people really need a calculator .... I so can't beleive you can't figure this out. ... its so simple.

And about the 14 people who start the game.... only 11 people vote remember. The HOH don't vote... nor does the 2 people on the block. That equals 11 ... not 14.

That means, at best, only 6 people are needed right from day 1... don't forget about the floaters ..... there are ALWAYS floaters available to a Fad 4.

If you can stop a fad 4 you will pretty much have to do so during the first 2 evictions. After that ... well ... math doesn't lie.

Keep in mind that the Fad 4 (I prefer to use Fad not Fab as in fade away instead of fabulous) won't care how the vote goes if one of their alliance members isn't on the block. Keep in mind that it will take an non alliance member as HOH to put them there.... which automatically takes away one of the opposition.

Wil and Boogie just got done showing you all how its done (All Star Game) ... and you still don't get it ... lol.

I give up

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 02:18 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 02:19 PM (EST)

I'm not saying the strategy that worked in the All Star Game did not work. Just saying I do not believe that is the one and only thing that will work or any randomly selected group of four people that forms an alliance will automatically be able to control the game and themselves and win every single season, like you seemed to be saying.

Or are you just talking about one and only one season and just making it sound like every season played out and will always play out in exactly the same way?

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 02:32 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 02:35 PM (EST)

ahhhhhh sorry ... I finally see your point... What I mean is this ...

You will need (not stupid people) .. yes.. a fad 4 can fail .. such as S6 did. Their stupidity beat themselves.

But if you get 4 people together who is good at math... controls the floaters a tad ... especially during the first few evictions.

All they need at most ... and this is at the beginning of the game ... is 2 floaters. And Gee lets consider this.... 4 people walk up to a couple of floaters and says... listen people.. how about you 2 join us and we'll be an unstoppable force of 6 gauranteeing we'll be the last 6 standing.... from there we battle it out.

The floaters are fooled into thinking they have a chance of winning ... but have just joined a 4-2 sub plan of the Fad 4 to have the majority vote.

You know yourself that 4 people in a group of 4 ... will have floaters. I mean.... lets not make it sound like the Fad 4 spends the entire show in the closet. I'm sure between the 4 of them they'll have at least 1 floater .. lol... which would automatically give them a power vote of 5/11.... lol.

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 02:45 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Not Impressed"
Help me with my memory here. What season was it with Jase and Scott and Cowboy and ? where they formed the Four Horsemen? And who won that season?


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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 02:49 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Not Impressed"
Did you even read the part on FLOATERS?
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 03:11 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 03:11 PM (EST)

A) That didn't answer my question.

B) From above: With your alliance of 4... the game ... right from day 1 ... has been already decided. You win... and everyone else's participation in the game is based solely on your permission.

You're saying that the "Fad 4", from day 1, has decided the game, and that you, as a member of that Fad 4, will win.

My example, and those of the others, shows that it's not the case. The "floaters" have control over the game as much as the Fad 4, and can even NEGATE the alliance of 4 by voting properly. As was the case more than once.


New sig courtesy of Agman!

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 03:20 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Not Impressed"
LAST EDITED ON 07-25-07 AT 03:28 PM (EST)

Ok... I apologize for wasting your time with such nonsense.

Thank you for your comments.

Hey... considering the 1st place winner gets $500,000, and the 2nd place winner gets $50,000.... wouldn't it just make more sense for all 14 people to form an alliance and split the $550,000 gauranteeing a $39,285.71 cheque for every participant in the game.

Now doesn't that sound better than 12/14 people getting nothing... when the 13th person receives only 10 grand more anyway?

A perfect example of "greedy people end up with nothing".

lol ... just a thought... lol

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FishWoman 1510 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 04:49 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Not Impressed"
Hey... considering the 1st place winner gets $500,000, and the 2nd place winner gets $50,000.... wouldn't it just make more sense for all 14 people to form an alliance and split the $550,000 gauranteeing a $39,285.71 cheque for every participant in the game.

Now doesn't that sound better than 12/14 people getting nothing... when the 13th person receives only 10 grand more anyway?

Muzman, it certainly *sounds* better, but the rules and regulations forbid that sort of collusion.

I see your point that a strong alliance of 4 could control the game from the start, but typically (all-stars and idiotic *twists* aside), none of the players know each other until they meet in the house. As a player, you have no way of knowing whether your alliance will be cohesive or ephemeral until further in the game, when true personalities tend to arise.

Even then, chaos will occur. People outside the alliance will win HoH and the veto; someone in your alliance will be dismissed for throwing chairs; there are too many variables.

It is a really good idea to get in a strong alliance early, but is by no means infallible.


makin' plates for 8 1/3 to 12

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JoshInSGV 737 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 03:48 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Not Impressed"
Hey nailbone,
To answer your question, the season you're talking about is Season 5. The 4 Horsemen were Jase, Scott, Drew, and Cowboy. The alliance imploded when Drew betrayed the horsemen by joining Nakomis in her 6 finger plan. Drew and Cowboy went on to the finals, but I don't really think they continued to identify themselves as members of the defunt Horsemen alliance.
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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 03:53 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Not Impressed"
So let me get this correct .... the Fad 4 (horsemen) lost a member of their alliance and "STILL" made it to the final 2?

WOW.... that completely contradicts everything I tried to explain... lol.

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JoshInSGV 737 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 04:03 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Not Impressed"
You are giving a very simplistic, and IMO a very inaccurate portrayal of what happened in Season 5.

Scott was the first horseman to be evicted by the opposing alliance. Jase was betrayed by his own alliance (Drew) and was evicted. In other words, Drew abandoned his original alliance and joined the side that you would describe as "the floaters". Given that the horsemen were so vile, the floaters aligned themselves to destroy the dominant alliance (the horsemen). Yes, Drew and Cowboy went on to the finals, but it was Diane who played a crucial role in accomplishing that. Diane betrayed every single person in her own alliance to advance herself (and Drew) further in the game. Drew and Cowboy ended up in the finals by no merit of their own, but because Diane carried them every step of the way, even to her own detriment. But by then, the original horsemen alliance was already defunct.

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muzman 10 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 04:07 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Not Impressed"
Perhaps ... but what you did as well was ... explained another S6 deal ... which doesn't suggest a alliance of 4 that stuck together like Chill Town.

Yes ... if the Alliance of 4 fail to stick together ... then ok fine ... your right ... they aren't playing by the equation I was suggesting.

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MandyM 2112 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 10:16 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Not Impressed"
Muzman, welcome and glad to have you here to debate and talk...but geeze, chill out a little. I guess the "you people really need a calculator" comment made me feel rather out of sorts. We all have our own theories about what works and what doesn't but until you are actually in it, it doesn't mean crap.

My own observations have been that early alliances fail, so it can, at times, be considered good game play to wait a bit and see how it shakes out.


MM Snark...her name was Janelle, not Jenna.
SLICE ROCKS!

Cool Tune!

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Glow 14353 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 12:23 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Not Impressed"
Carol?


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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07-25-07, 10:51 PM (EST)
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25. "I'm Not Impressed with this reasoning"
Some still don't see the difference between Survivor and Big Brother. Hatch figured that forming alliances was the way to win Survivor. Most players since then, in both games, have tried to be in the winning alliance: Having the numbers means easy pagonging...In Survivor only!

Big Brother doesn't play that way! Didn't Will prove in season 2 that alliances can be fatal? That winning HOH is moronic? Influence is what you need, not control. Individuals have influence. The numbers don't even have control of the vote, certainly not each week.

To attack a 4 person alliance, (even if they have some floaters and even after the first 2 weeks), all you have to do is get 2 members of that alliance nominated. All a player of influence needs is a worried and greedy HOH. Even non-threatening members of the alliance can be put on the block just for being in that alliance. That forces members of the alliance to vote against one of their own.

How often has Kaysar won BB? He had strong alliances two seasons in a row, yet got booted 3 times, probably lasting no more than 8 episodes in all!

Will in season 2, proved that the way to win is to align with everyone and be against everyone.

An alliance is worthwile only if it is secret but that has never worked. Even the Mr and Mrs Smith alliance got outed.

And Chilltown was an alliance of 2, not 4. Erica and Janelle were certainly not aligned throughout the game. Janelle was in the Season 6 alliance and was forced to float for survival. Erica was always a floater that was an easy pawn. I'll even say that Will lost the game because he wanted to protect Boogie, that he played the stupid alliance game. Had he been playing alone, he'd have turned Erica against Mike in a second and made it to the end!

Playing Big Brother in tribes, especially like Season 6 is extremely dumb. It becomes a random game: One of the alliance will eventually win 2 stupid contests in a row and take over. There's no strategy left to play, nowhere to hide, no way to influence the other team's decision. It becomes a shooting gallery.

This season, Evil Dick appeared to control the house but his alliance is known and it won't last unless they win each week's HOH. Good luck with that!!

I liked Eric and Jameka's chances of winning. Especially Eric saying he wanted to avoid HOH. Now, they are starting to be seen too much with Evil. Nick, being between both alliances and Jessica, alone in her fantasy world, aren't in bad positions but I have doubts on their mental abilities.

Could it be? Jen certainly has no alliances and certainly has everyone against her. Now that Dick has declared war on Kale's alliance, maybe Jen can find a way to be needed by everyone. I'd sure laugh out loud at that!

PS: Chicken George thanking everyone was his game. He floated very well, almost to the end. His demise was that he faced the only smart player BB has seen in Will. No way was Will going to let CG float to the finish line. Replace Will with that Boobie guy so that Janelle has an ally to face off against Mike and Erica and suddenly George is the most valuable member of the house and maybe the winner!!

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JoshInSGV 737 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

07-26-07, 00:02 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: I'm Not Impressed with this reasoning"

I'll even say
>that Will lost the game
>because he wanted to protect
>Boogie, that he played the
>stupid alliance game. Had he
>been playing alone, he'd have
>turned Erica against Mike in
>a second and made it
>to the end!
>

I think this is a very insightful analysis of what ultimatelly derailed Will's game on BB AllStars. Erika and Janelle conspiring against him was a huge factor, as well as failing to win POV when it was essential for his own survival. But, his true handicap in the game started much earlier. Will won BB2 because he held loyalties to no one. In BB All Stars, his loyalty to Boogie ultimately led to his own demise.

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Shannonh2007 69 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

07-26-07, 09:17 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Not Impressed"
Not sure what the point of the orginal post is. It's a game. Those are the rules of the game. The players get to decide if they're going to let someone else control them. Like I said, it's a game.
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