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"Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
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Reality432423 153 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 02:44 AM (EST)
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"Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
I think this guy has a few screws loose. First he becomes cowardly until reluctantly he fight Ahmed (after crying like a baby).

Ishe first started the conflict with Ahmed (when Ishe was mocking him, when Ahmed was practicing).

Because he reads the bible, you guys fall for it.

I'm sorry he was complaining when Anthony went against the team and choose Brent to fight. First of all Ishe should have no say in the matter. His fight is done, now he has to try to ##### and control everyone else.

This guy is a disgusting hypocrite. I have no idea when people like this nut job.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... lucier 04-05-05 1
   RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... TroyGun25 04-05-05 2
       Disagree AyaK 04-05-05 3
           Exactly PhoenixMons 04-05-05 4
               RE: Exactly Da Contenda 04-05-05 5
                   RE: Exactly FarwestChips 04-05-05 8
           RE: Disagree JayT 04-05-05 6
               RE: Disagree ARnutz 04-05-05 12
 RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... VegasFightWriter 04-05-05 7
   RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... FarwestChips 04-05-05 9
       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... VegasFightWriter 04-05-05 11
           RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... FarwestChips 04-05-05 13
   RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... ARnutz 04-05-05 10
       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... FarwestChips 04-05-05 14
           RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... Superbad 04-05-05 15
               RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... TroyGun25 04-05-05 16
                   RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... Da Contenda 04-06-05 17
                       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... FarwestChips 04-06-05 18
                           RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... Reality432423 04-08-05 19
                       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... jenniferlyn 05-02-05 61
                   Differences AyaK 04-08-05 20
                       RE: Differences CubsFan05 04-08-05 21
                           RE: Differences Rebellwyr 04-08-05 22
       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... Loree 04-14-05 39
 Why I like Ishe... iatovttotx78 04-08-05 23
   RE: Why I like Ishe... Reality432423 04-09-05 24
   RE: Why I like Ishe... ARnutz 04-09-05 25
       RE: Why I like Ishe... iatovttotx78 04-09-05 26
           RE: Why I like Ishe... volsfan 04-10-05 27
           RE: Why I like Ishe... ARnutz 04-10-05 28
               RE: Why I like Ishe... iatovttotx78 04-10-05 32
   RE: Why I like Ishe... PhoenixMons 04-10-05 29
       RE: Why I like Ishe... Superbad 04-10-05 30
           RE: Why I like Ishe... PhoenixMons 04-10-05 31
               RE: Why I like Ishe... Superbad 04-11-05 33
       RE: Why I like Ishe... iatovttotx78 04-15-05 41
 Ishe's edit AyaK 04-12-05 34
   RE: Ishe's edit VegasFightWriter 04-12-05 35
   My $.02 PhoenixMons 04-12-05 36
       Agree AyaK 04-13-05 37
           RE: Agree PhoenixMons 04-13-05 38
               RE: Agree Superbad 04-15-05 40
   RE: Ishe's edit BriannaBentley 04-21-05 42
   RE: Ishe's edit VegasFightWriter 04-25-05 46
       Agree AyaK 04-25-05 47
           RE: Agree VegasFightWriter 04-25-05 48
               You're not alone PhoenixMons 04-26-05 51
               Editing AyaK 04-26-05 53
               RE: Agree pdaj 04-26-05 54
 RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... finalround 04-21-05 43
 RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... finalround 04-21-05 44
 RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... avengerboy 04-22-05 45
   RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... biggest brutha 04-25-05 49
       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... AlgeCrumpler 04-26-05 50
           RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... ChicagoTRS 04-26-05 52
               RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... biggest brutha 04-26-05 55
               RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... AlgeCrumpler 04-26-05 56
                   Agree AyaK 04-26-05 57
                       RE: Agree VegasFightWriter 04-27-05 58
                           RE: Agree pdaj 04-27-05 59
 RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... jenniferlyn 05-02-05 60
   RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... sniknuh 05-03-05 62
       RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocr... Radical 05-04-05 63

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lucier 1 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 09:44 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
i agree!
i was quite surprised to see a viewer poll had chosen Ishe as the most probable contender. WHHHHHHHHAT??? the guy barely escaped Ahmed after forcing himself to fight him. On another note, Anthony did what was right for him and there is nothing wrong with that. Why pick a fight that you think youre gonna lose? Every person here would have done the same thing.

good on ya, anthony.
p.s

i love how before the match, the east and west were both saying "oh, brents a better fighter, he's gonna smoke anthony, etc, etc". THEN when brent got ROCKED, they all downplay it saying "oh, brent wasn't a good fighter, anthony took the easy way out".

PLEASE....

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TroyGun25 27 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 11:29 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Great points. Remember, in the episode that Jesse fought, Ishe was supposed to call out Ahmed and didn't and Jesse and everyone else was questioning Ishe's heart. And now they're all going to stand there and judge what Tony did. Give me a break. The other thing to think about is that the key to this is to get as far as you can and with a 5 round fight anything can happen, there's no room for error, so a guy like Tony, who's a decent fighter could totally beat anyone that's left standing. Same goes for Joey or Tarick or Jaun. Plus let's not forget, this is reality TV and every reality TV show needs a villian and the villians usually get pretty far (Richard Hatch) for ratings sake.
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 11:37 AM (EST)
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3. "Disagree"
a guy like Tony, who's a decent fighter could totally beat anyone that's left standing

Anthony has no chance of beating Ishe, and the extended clips made it clear that Ishe is looking to beat up Anthony in the second round due to Anthony's double-cross.

Ishe was ranked among the top-10 welterweights in the world by all four of the ranking agencies (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO) prior to the show. He will simply destroy Anthony.

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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 12:22 PM (EST)
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4. "Exactly"
The five round format may give the underdogs a little bit of a push (every round counts that much more), but Anthony is just no match for Ishe. Alfonso beating Peter was a surprise, but that was the very first fight. These guys now understand how everything works and how they must train to prepare for both the fights and challenges.

IMO, Ishe isn't a hypocrite, Jesse is. He's the one who was whining and moaning about Ishe one minute (Ishe's decision not to fight Ahmed that episode wasn't a matter of him punking out, IMO) and then doing the exact same thing himself. Ishe and the others were ticked about Anthony choosing Brent for VERY different reasons (it was an easy way out for Anthony, he was deceitful about it, etc.) than when Ishe re-thought his fight with Ahmed. I don't think Ishe was ever going to NOT fight Ahmed, he just needed to get into the mindset of it being for him and not for the others (that's how I saw it, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with him reading the Bible because I don't).


Got blog?

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Da Contenda 21 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 01:18 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Exactly"
Have you guys ever even seen Tony fight...other than kicking the crap out of Cooper??? He is a good fighter, and definitely has a chance against Ishe.
I hope he takes Ishe down so you can eat your words!
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FarwestChips 76 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 03:13 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Exactly"
Ummm yes I have seen Tony fight, I have seen him beat and over aged fighter, and Iv seen him get pounded twice by so-so fighters.
Truth is Tony is not that good, I said early on that he was not in the top 10 on the show.
Manfredo already took Tony out once, he won every round including the first five with ease.
And judging by the fighters Ishe has fought he should take Manfredo without any real trouble.
Tony has no chance of winning another fight. Take that to the bank.
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JayT 15 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 01:30 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Disagree"
Anthony has no chance of beating Ishe? C'mon, you know better than that! Less we forget Gomez, or Douglas, or Rahman ect..ect...

I think Ishe is MORE beatable because of his state of mind. He's anrgy and unfocused! Maybe his family can ground him again!

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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 03:24 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Disagree"
Anger can be a huge motivator and Ishe is not confused. He knows who he wants as his next opponenet and you can bet that he will be well prepared for that fight on the show.



'nutz: Proud member of the inoffensive OT Triumvirate... and Shroomhater! - shroom go boom!

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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 03:02 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Well, first of all, I "fall for it," not because he reads the Bible, but because he is a good friend of mine.

Yeah, he started talking smack to Ahmed. It's what fighters do. But it was Ahmed who let it get into his head and turned it into something it wasn't. When Ishe initially passed on fighting Ahmed, it was because he was feeling confused about what was going on. It was early in the game, and he was feeling pressured to take a dangerous fight early on. He went away, did some soul-searching, came back to the team, apoogized, and beat Ahmed handily.

The situation is not the same as what Anthony did. It would only be analagous if Ishe had said, "OK,I'll fight Ahmed," and then fought Juan De La Rosa.

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FarwestChips 76 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 03:17 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
VFW;
I am still a bit freaked out about Jaun, he is just so young.
At this point im just hoping he doesnt get hurt. I look forward to any updates you have or get after he fights. And I hope no matter what he gets back in the ring, he shows alot of guts getting up there with a few of the boys on the show.
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 03:20 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
He really does seem young, doesn't he? And small. There are a couple of them, like Juan, like Brent, who on experience and (in Brent's case) talent grounds really don't belong there. One thing Ishe told me, though, is that the producers did try hard to get more world-ranked/genuine contender types (Sam Soliman was a name he mentioned), but in almost all cases, the promoters wouldn't let them go.
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FarwestChips 76 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 05:12 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
The king would have been great.
But I would much rather see Ishe and Soliman go 10 or 12 rounds in 8oz gloves.
5 rounds in 16's would of been a waste of talent.
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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 03:20 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Exactly!!!

It's not as if Ishe called out a weaker opponent! After thinking about the situation, he mentally prepared for and beat Ahmed. It's not the same as what Anthony did. Ishe stood up to his own challenge and was a man about it!


Anthony thought only of himself (oh, and his kids) and will not make it past the final 8. All Anthony did was guarantee he wouldn't be in the bottom 8.


What Ishe did was earn respect and show integrity! Anthony showed he's a coward because he didn't have the mental strength to assure himself a win over Jimmy and he took the easier way out.



'nutz: Proud member of the inoffensive OT Triumvirate... and Shroomhater! - shroom go boom!

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FarwestChips 76 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 05:13 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Well said
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Superbad 98 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 08:21 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
If a certain style bothers you, it's smart to avoid that style in a case like this, where it's one and done. Still, he should've expressed his concerns when they made the match-ups. I don't know what happened there.

Now, farwest you said something about 16 oz. gloves? Is that true, or do they use the 10 oz., cuz they looked like 10's but now I'm not so sure...

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TroyGun25 27 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-05, 11:40 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
I sure hope all you talkers out there (FarwestChips, Ayak...etc) will come on here and kiss all of our a$$ if Tony does win his next fight. I'm not going to say he will and I certainly won't say he won't win. I don't know and neither do any of you. Yeah go ahead and spew out all the records and judges scorecards you want, but keep it in the context of this show...anything can happen, ie: Alfonso beating Peter. These are 5 round fights with no room for error. Will Tony move on past the final 8...it's not unimaginable. Will he go to the finals? I highly doubt it. But don't sit here on your high horse saying THERE'S NO WAY HE'S GOING TO WIN. Come on. Every reality TV show needs a villian and the villian usually goes far. You can take that to the bank!
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Da Contenda 21 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-05, 01:05 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Well said TroyGun...I'd be up for some kissin if and when Tony makes them eat their words.
Heart, motivation, and determination go a long way in boxing...show me one boxer on this show who has more. Sure the other guys may have their families that they're also fighting for...but they also know in the back of their minds that this show is opening doors for the rest of their careers. Tony is 33 (may have turned 34 since the taping of the show) and is in the twilight of his career. He knows this may be his last ticket to a big payday. As if his kids weren't enough, he also has that added motivator.
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FarwestChips 76 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-05, 12:34 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-05 AT 07:30 PM (EST)

So what you guys are saying is Boxing is all a fluke? I donít get your point. Or are you saying that it is fixed so the villan will go on? Yes there is a chance Tony could land a lucky punch. But that is very rare. If it happened alto we would not have prize fighting because all the best guys would be beat three or four times by lesser fighters that got lucky.
Heart does go a long way, as long as it has a good fighter to travel with.
So if you guys want me to come back and kiss your A$$es after Tony lands one lucky punch, well ok If that happens Ill have no trouble coming back and saying wow you guys called that right.
Because I know I will call 99 out of 100 fights right by looking at the stats and you guys just got lucky once and needed to be sucked on for it.
Want some advice? This is a great sport and the more you learn and study it the more you will enjoy it, do some research, donít just take a guess than scream HAHAHA the one time you got lucky off some poor saps lucky punch.
So I will get off my high horse when Im wrong, Hey Im sure there are lots of things you know more about than me, boxing is not one. The diff is I will not argue with you when we discuss a subject you know more than me about.

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Reality432423 153 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 01:30 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Actually Anthony impressed me with his fight. He was all punches and seemed to have the energy to go through all 5 rounds (I hope the rounds increase later). I think Anthony is real good.

As for Ishe I'm sure he will cause lots of trouble later on. It just seems like he'll cause loads of problems.

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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
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05-02-05, 09:50 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
LAST EDITED ON 05-02-05 AT 09:52 PM (EST)

TOTALLY AGREE, heart has a lot to do with motivation. Look at how far Joey got, and he wasn't supposed to make it past the first round!! Not to mention all the crap that's been said about Gomez, and where is he now?? Final 4 baby!! Unfortunately I think it will come down to Manfredo and Mora in the finals, in which case GOOO SERGIO!! (too bad Manfredo's a nice guy..it would make it a lot easier to root against him)

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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 10:49 AM (EST)
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20. "Differences"
>anything can happen, i.e.: Alfonso beating Peter.

Alfonso is certainly a tough fighter. He'd fought Ishe prior to the show. But, as we discussed previously, a big part of Alfonso's victory was the total shock that he picked Peter. Peter wasn't expecting it, and he had to lose a lot of weight in one day for weigh-in.

Note that we haven't had any upsets since Alfonso's victory in fight 1. The better boxer has won every time.

>Every reality TV show needs a villian and the villian usually goes far.
>You can take that to the bank!

Part of what makes The Contender so fascinating is that it isn't like any other reality show. To stick around, you have to win in the ring. You can't survive merely by getting the villains (e.g., Anthony) to make alliances against the leaders (e.g., Ishe). And you can take that to the bank, too.

There is exactly one way that Anthony could survive: if the second round matchups were chosen by random draw and he got a lucky draw. Of course, that would completely eliminate the show's commercial sponsorship opportunities challenges, so that isn't likely to happen.

As far as Tony's motivation: why would you think that he is more motivated to take care of his kids than Ishe, Peter or Jesse are to take care of their children?

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CubsFan05 37 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 11:39 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Differences"
Personally, since Tony is older, his window to earn money is smaller than Ishe, Peter and Jesse's window.

Add to that the fact that Tony is not married and does not have a wife that has an option to work if needed.

There is a possibility that they could dissolve the teams in the second round and have challenges that could be won by one single fighter who could in turn box anyone they wish.

If you figure that two of Jimmy, Tarick, Joey, and Juan are going to make the second round, Tony could beat any of them. Tony would love to have the chance to beat Peter (since the fight will be on neutral ground) but I doubt he could do it.

Realistically, Tony could easily beat 2 of the 7 other fighters in the 2nd round. If each fighter wins the challenges for himself, Ishe, Jesse, and Alphonso couldn't "throw" a challenge. They would need to compete. Jimmy, Tarick, Joey or Juan may actually WANT to fight Tony in the 2nd round since they wouldn't have a prayer against any of the "Big 4".

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Rebellwyr 34 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 01:11 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Differences"
I think you are counting some of these last four fighters "out" a little too quickly, we haven't even seen them fight yet. Specifically, I wouldn't count Joey out so fast. He has a hard right hand and this five round format fits him pretty well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make it into round three.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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04-14-05, 01:10 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
>
>Anthony thought only of himself (oh,
>and his kids) and will
>not make it past the
>final 8. All Anthony did
>was guarantee he wouldn't be
>in the bottom 8.
>


If Anthony had mentioned his kids one more time I would have put my fist through the TV. It got to the point he could not say a sentence without mentioning his 2 kids.

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iatovttotx78 2645 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 11:19 PM (EST)
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23. "Why I like Ishe..."
I don't presume to speak for everyone here, but I like Ishe because he's very easy on the eyes. And being easy myself I think that's a desirable quality.

I don't care what he can or can't do in the ring. I'm far more interestd in what he might be able to do in the bedroom

~Tim~


Fighting for peace is like fvcking for virginity.

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Reality432423 153 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-05, 02:03 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
Really, I think Ahmed, Brent and Anthony were much better looking. Ishe doesn't really look that good.
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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-05, 12:26 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
You are so bad!

Although Ishe is a great looking man, I first and foremost love his personality!

I love that he can not only trash talk, but has the skill to back it up! It takes a strong character to come back and be a man after you've questioned your own ability.


You better be careful, signing your name ~Tim~ has confused a lot of people into thinking your a man.

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04-09-05, 11:06 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
Why should it matter to me if they think i'm a man. Would it offend people if I were an openly gay man, who frequently comented on other hot men?

~A Girl Named Tim~


I'm not so much bad as I am extremely oversexed.

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04-10-05, 09:33 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
I can't speak for Nutz but I don't think the statement was meant to suggest you were an openly gay man. Nutz has never had a problem with me being the gay man talking about how hot other men are!
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04-10-05, 01:39 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
LAST EDITED ON 04-10-05 AT 01:40 PM (EST)

Nah, it wouldn't offend people at all.

I just wanted to point out the possible confusion, that's all.

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04-10-05, 10:32 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
i was just kidding around anyways....Its been my experience that all the peeps on the board are great, I just I'd be indignant...

~Tim~


I Love Ishe!

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04-10-05, 05:03 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
While I definitely didn't choose my favorites (Ishe, Alfonso, Peter) based on looks, Ishe is a good looking guy for sure. He looks much better on TV (on The Contender and on FNF) than he does in pictures. Tarick and Miguel are also quite attractive, IMO.


cute screen name...I meant to mention that before...which one do you prefer? I've never been to VT but have always wanted to go and one of my best friends lives in IA

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04-10-05, 07:25 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
...And don't forget Fraza and Bosante...
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04-10-05, 09:48 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
not my type...but to each his/her own


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04-11-05, 01:42 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
Touche
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04-15-05, 06:19 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Why I like Ishe..."
LAST EDITED ON 04-25-05 AT 05:40 PM (EST)

When it comes to sports I really don't care about I chose based on looks.
Ask me who my favorite basketball team is... I will tell you the 76ers (Allen Iverson is HOT) or whatever team signed Okafor.
My favorite race car dirvier is Jimmie Johnson (guess the reason). Baseball: A-Rod and Jeter's teams. Hockey: I don't know of any good-looking guys... The fact of the matter is when I don't know anything about the sport I base my preferences on looks.

Football is the exception... I love football and understand enough about it to not base my favorite players looks alone. That being said, I can still probably tell you the best looking player on any team. (Jason Taylor is the best looking in the NFL.


ETA: I miss Ishe already. My new favorite is Jesse. For pretty much similar reasons
~Tim~


I like the weather in Texas, but not the politics or the scenery (though that may just be Lubbock), vermont has the politics and its beautiful, but its soo cold. Iowa has my family, I like my family

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04-12-05, 04:45 PM (EST)
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34. "Ishe's edit"
It seems to me that Ishe is getting a deliberately skewed edit. In fact, it's possible that he's being edited as the "villain" of the show.

1) In the first show, we saw (on the Yahoo! site) that Ishe and Jonathan were close because of their religion and their experiences. But we weren't shown that on TV. Thus, in episode 2, when we see Ishe pulling for Jonathan, it looks like he's doing it to spite Jesse.

2) In episode 2, again on the Yahoo! site, we saw Ishe walk off the show after Jesse trashed him in the press conference. He was clearly emotionally exhausted at that point. Note that, at least as far as I can remember, we never saw Ishe trashing Jesse -- we just saw Ishe saying that it should be his choice when (not whom) he fought.

3) Cameramen had to have filmed the handshake deals between the two sides about the remaining matches, including the deal between Jimmy and Anthony to fight each other -- the deal that Sugar Ray discussed in last week's video clip. Yet we haven't seen hide nor hair of those deals.

4) We also saw Anthony siding with the team plan on the Web site (when Sergio and Miguel wanted to deviate from the plan). Yet, when Anthony double-crossed everyone and picked Brent, we've seen Anthony self-righteously claiming that he was the one who had to feed his kids ... and we've seen what looked like Ishe trying to bully him otherwise, even though, in context, it would be seen as Ishe sticking up for the other fighters and for the handshake deals that they all made.

5) When Ishe returned from defeating Ahmed, the title of the clip on the Web site is entitled "Ishe: Sore Winner." I defy anyone to find anything in that clip to justify the title.

6) When Ishe made what seemed like a very principled decision to not participate in this week's reward for the West (and one which Ishe stuck with, even as Ja Rule was handing out $2500 watches right next to him), the Web site discussed Ishe's "pouting," and it captioned the picture of Ishe sitting out with the phrase, "There's no "I" in team but there is one in Ishe, who boycotts the West's Reward." We also saw Alfonso agreeing to forget about Anthony's actions before the reward. Which seems less phony to you: throwing a fit and then changing your mind before the reward (as Alfonso did), or sitting the reward out (as Ishe did)?

7) Here's this week's Yahoo! question for the show, which seems to me to be trying to build up the Ishe-as-bad-guy idea:
Ishe has talked trash with opponent Ahmed and teammates Jesse and Anthony. What will he do next?
- Challenge Tommy to a cuss-off
- Out-pray vanquished Bible-study buddy Brent
- Criticize Jackie's fashion sense
- Audition vs. Sly for the lead in the next Rambo


...and so on.

So why make Ishe into a villain? Is it because he behaved as a villain? Well, no -- for example, he hasn't nagged anyone into building a shelter in a flood plain shortly before the river rises.
Is it because Burnett sees him as a villain? Unlikely. Is it because nobody else among the final eight is willing to state his feelings as strongly, and Burnett knows that every reality show needs someone like that up front? Possibly. But there must be a reason.

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04-12-05, 05:09 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Ishe's edit"
Obviously I'm biased, but I think you're exactly right. I was just talking to him five minutes ago, and he asked me what I thought abouthim not going on the reward. I told him that, personally, I thought he had no choice but to sit it out. Had he gone,he would have looked hypocritical. In the event, to my eyes at least, the others were the ones who looked hypocritical. He's still disappointed the others went, especially Joey. (Sergio, he said, was up front from the beginning that he had no problem with what Tony did).

From the beginning of the show, Ishe told me that a lot of the guys were really quiet and reserved about saying or doing much on camera, whereas he wasn't, and as a consequence he knew he would be getting more face time than most. He doesn't seem distraught about the way he is being portrayed ("Man, this show would be nothing without me") but you're right, from what we have seen and what we know, it would be easy to have a slightly different edit that would give Ishe just as much face time but convey a completely different feeling about him.

As the Veteran EPMB maven, what do you think are his reasons for portraying Ishe this way? Presumably, it has something to do with the way events unfold -- i.e. it fits an evolving storyline?

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04-12-05, 05:35 PM (EST)
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36. "My $.02"
Well, I completely agree with your assessment. I mentioned in the Jaun v. Tarick episode thread that I felt Ishe made the right decision to sit out the reward and felt it was a principled decision to give up the reward.

Something VFW said (quoting Ishe) above me sums up my feelings on why Ishe's getting the negative edit.

He doesn't seem distraught about the way he is being portrayed ("Man, this show would be nothing without me")

I get the idea that the rest of these guys are pretty boring (in terms of reality tv standards). Villains (in EPMB-land) tend to stick around for a while, and often come out on top...perhaps some of the other possible villains (Jesse/Anthony - the two real hypocrites) don't make it past the next round (not very hard to believe)...and what fun is a final four with no one interesting/edgy/villanous?

I'm thinking that Ishe's negative edit is probably a sign that he'll be around for a while AND that others with negative-edit-potential won't (namely, Anthony...possibly Jesse AKA Drunk White Frat Boy).

I haven't gotten a good enough feel of the editing/storylines for The Contender yet (on the whole). Maybe we should ask VS to watch and post her thoughts.


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04-13-05, 11:54 AM (EST)
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37. "Agree"
VFW, I've been wondering about Ishe's edit since episode 2, as you know. When I saw the "Ishe: Sore Winner" clip title back in Ep. 4, I first started to wonder if he wasn't being slanted as a villain.

PhoenixMons, I agree with this:

>Villains (in EPMB-land) tend to stick around for a while, and
>often come out on top...perhaps some of the other possible
>villains (Jesse/Anthony - the two real hypocrites) don't make it
>past the next round (not very hard to believe)...and what
>fun is a final four with no one interesting/edgy/villanous?
>
>I'm thinking that Ishe's negative edit is probably a sign that
>he'll be around for a while AND that others with
>negative-edit-potential won't (namely, Anthony...possibly Jesse
>AKA Drunk White Frat Boy).

Certainly Burnett has had a way of making his villains into stars. With the exception of Omarosa, it would have been possible to give each of those villains a positive edit (yes, even Jerri Manthey, who was double-crossed by Colby and Tina when they voted off Mitchell but nevertheless remained totally loyal to her alliance with Colby and Amber right up to the point when Colby double-crossed her again). <Note, for example, that there was no positive comment about Ishe volunteering for this week's challenge to help out Joey and Tarick. The only fight winners who have competed in a challenge for the West are Alfonso (ep. 2, when Jesse sat out -- I think because he was planning to fight that week, though we were shown that Ishe was supposed to fight!), Jesse (ep. 6) and Ishe (ep. 7).>

And I agree that it seems likely that other potential villains (way-overweight Jesse, Anthony) leave in the quarterfinals, so Ishe may have become the villain by default. You cannot make Peter Manfredo into a villain, simply because the comeback story is too positive. Juan's just a kid. So who is left? Sergio? He's really the only other person with the right temperament for the role -- but he's clearly not a leader on his team right now.

However, I also think there is a possibility that Ishe does something which is supposed to "reform" him in our eyes. You can't "reform" someone who isn't in need of being reformed!

We'll have to see.

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04-13-05, 01:17 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Agree"
Yup. Agree on the 'reform' thing, too. I was going to add that whole angle to my post, but I didn't really have a good feel for what this sort of redeeming act/quality would be.

When I was trying to think about what Ishe's story arc might be, the only thing I kept coming back to was some sort of epiphany...hopefully nothing like the half-assed and extremely lame epiphany that Kendra had in Africa in TAR6 ("I just want to take all the kids home with me even though I just said I can't believe these people are breeding" *gag*) but along those lines.

So we'll probably be treated to EPMB-style redemption of Ishe come the semis (which will probably begin after he pummels his newest "enemy", Anthony)...and I have a feeling it's going to involve Alfonso in some way (seems EPMB is setting them up to be on opposite ends with Alfonso's comments about dropping the situation, not wanting to appear childish like Ishe, brak brak brak)...unless that was simply to make Ishe look bad and it didn't matter who said it...


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04-15-05, 02:39 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Agree"
LAST EDITED ON 04-15-05 AT 02:41 AM (EST)

I don't think Ishe was wrong in not going out with the guys. I would've done the same thing. Hell he even turned down a bad-a** watch out of principle. He didn't sell out and he stuck to his guns. I surprised Joey went, though. After all, you know...

I did find it funny when Anthony's sitting there complaining to Joey of all people about how he doesn't understand why Ishe's not going out with them etc., etc. And Joey's sitting there like "mmm hmmm whatever motherf*cker..." How Anthony would actually think Joey would lend a sympathetic ear is beyond me.


I think it's hard to find a villian on this show because 99 out of 100 boxers are nice guys. In fact, many reporters will tell you that out of all the athletes they interact with, boxers are the most down-to-earth. Ironic, given the nature of the sport, but true. You can go up to a fighter anytime, without hassle, and get an autograph, picture, and a nice conversation w/ no problem at all. (And all for free, I might add.)

Anyhow, it seems like a case where they have to create a villian. Although, Anthony certainly has helped the cause in the meantime...

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04-21-05, 04:22 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Ishe's edit"
LAST EDITED ON 04-21-05 AT 04:28 PM (EST)

Stallone doesn't like Ishe as evidenced by some of his comments as the credits roll. That's probably why Ishe is getting a bad edit.

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04-25-05, 04:12 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: Ishe's edit"
I still haven't had a chance to see the show from last night, but looking at the site, the same anti-Ishe sentiment is still prevalent in the captions: Ishe vs the world; Sergio shuts Ishe up; Ishe still talking trash. I don't like it.
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04-25-05, 05:59 PM (EST)
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47. "Agree"
Yeah, it's bizarre.

Tommy and Jackie didn't like Ishe, as the "Sly's summit" clips make clear, and the captions may be reflecting their viewpoint. But, as Ishe says, if what he does is "trash talking," then what do we call what Zab Judah does?

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04-25-05, 06:07 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Agree"
What I really don't like is, as you have pointed out before, the captions do not reflect the video. "Ishe still talking trash," says one caption. The video is three minutes of Ishe being sad, reflective, grateful, humble, thanking everyone from SRL to Sly to Latoya to Las Vegas to his church, and wishing the remaining fighters all the best. Not one word of trash. His talk with Jackie was titled "Ishe vs. The World." Jackie is the one saying that the others don't like him; Ishe just largely sitting there quietly, looking like he would really rather not be having that conversation right before a fight. Obviously I'm biased, but I'm kinda annoyed and upset by the labeling on the site.
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04-26-05, 01:00 PM (EST)
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51. "You're not alone"
The captions on the site are definitely meant to show Ishe unfavorably...and for what reason I don't really know. It just seems like they are trying to make him into a villain when there's really nothing there to back that up at all. Just saying "Ishe talks trash" does not make it so! It is annoying!


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04-26-05, 01:27 PM (EST)
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53. "Editing"
Actually, there's another editing point that bothers me. Alfonso said that the coalition called itself the "Italian Clan." It seems to me that there is a real smell of racism here, since the three people left out by that coalition were the remaining black and Latino fighters. And it seems to me that Stallone, the old "Italian Stallion" himself, was partial to the "Italian Clan," blatantly advocating for the contestants to bring back Ahmed and even hiring Joey to be his spokesperson for his "nutrition line" once the show was over.

I also noticed that the key thing in the coalition versus Ishe "kitchen fight" on the Web -- Sergio's contention that someone was feeding the rest of the contestants BS about Ishe, which seemed to fit with what we later saw (and then also see on the Web) Joey doing with Ahmed -- was completely left out of the show.

P.S. In the clip entitled "Joey Schemes to Deceive," we see Peter, Jesse and Alfonso running together late at night after Sergio's fight (while Joey is running with Ahmed, and Lord only knows where Anthony is):

Alfonso says, "I could've beat Ishe tonight too."
Jesse (who says in confessional that he wants to fight Anthony because that will make him "feel good about himself") says, "I could've knocked Ishe out tonight. A slow jab, and then I'd come over with a right hook."
Peter then chimes in with, "I think anyone would've beat him tonight."

So ... who are the trash talkers, Tommy?

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04-26-05, 01:28 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Agree"
VFW -- I agree 100%.

When I viewed yahoo's clips the other day, it was obvious they had chose a negative angle on Ishe and stuck with it. The captions under Smith's available videos make no sense whatsoever. I still hold out hope that we'll gain more access to the "inside stuff" after the show's conclusion.

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04-21-05, 05:12 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Ahmed did get into Ishe's head. But that's boxing. Remember Rahman Vs. Lewis, Tyson Vs. Bruno, Hyde Vs. Morris on, Tuba Vs. Make, Tuba Vs. Moorer. That's boxing. The mental aspect of the game, is just as important as the physical.

The editing does portray Ishe in an unfavorable light, though he did apologize for his behavior. Now he seems to back up what he is saying.

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44. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
I first did not like Ishe, though I must say I like him more and more. He backs up what he says. He does not appear to be a back stabber. He appears to be the type of individual who is "what you see is what you get". I hope he can keep backing up his words. I would like to see him in the finals against Alfonzo
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45. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
He his a hypocrite but i look at it this way in his weight class he will eventually have to fight hopkins or trinidad i would love to see him get embarrased
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49. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Actually Ishe must be a REPUBLICAN. The five rounds is weighted better for novice fighters. I was just disappointed in ishe for being a little byatch. but as for being a hypocrite look at the religious right and the republican party. In god we trust. Please
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50. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
LAST EDITED ON 04-26-05 AT 12:50 PM (EST)

If you're going to rip the guy at least peice together a sentence that makes sense. You think that being religious means you're a hypocrite?

As for the rest of the thread, I am also somewhat disturbed by the treatment of Ishe. In my opinion he is the best fighter on the show.

The editting of his fight with Sergio is a disgrace. If you watch the fight, fast forward to the end of round 5. You will see that Sergio is starting to collapse as the bell rings, then they cut the tape and he is suddenly in the arms of the corner man. Also, why the heck would you edit out the words "split decision" from the TV version? Its not like its a time crunch.

Second, he talks no trash at all after losing, which he certainly could've considering the controversy surrounding the result. Yet the clip is labeled "still talking trash".

Third, watch the full 6 minute shouting match with Jesse and Manfredo. It is clear that Jessee escalated the whole incident by threatening to "attack" Ishee. Jessee would not even say what Ishee had said nor who told him. Sergio was on Ishe's side confronting Jessee. Basically, Jessee was a total punk but they editted it on TV to just show Ishee all mad from the get go without the context of Jessee's baseless acusations and threats.

Forth, on TV during the fight when Ishe was destroying Sergio in rounds 2 and 3, they decided to play villian-type music. Every time Ishe landed a blow they'd have squealing horns and stuff like that.

In summary, I think the fight with Sergio was closer than it looked and could've gone either way. If Ishe had won I'm sure they would've made Sergio look like the bad guy instead. But I'd rather just leave reality alone so that the fight shown is less of a Micheal Moore type documentary and instead is a true documentary with the context of what happened.

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52. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
If you watch the extended scene of the major principles (sly, sugar, tommy...) having the post fight talk they make reference to Ishe being a poor loser and that he did some things after the fight that were bad. Seems like MB did Ishe a favor by editing all of this stuff out of the main program. They don't give many details of what exactly Ishe did but this may be why they portrayed him in a bad light. They knew a lot more about Ishe than they showed us during the show and this likely slanted their negative spin on him in the end.
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55. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
would love to see the fight uncut....
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AlgeCrumpler 39 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"

04-26-05, 08:28 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
Actually Sly is defending Ishe in that footage. Only the chick thought he was a poor sport.

I too would like to see the fight uncut. This obviously was a very close one that could be called either way. It just feel like the producers were trying to trick us and I don't like it. I'm not sure how anyone can condone labelling videos things like "Ishe still talking trash.." when he has not one negative thing to say about anyone in the entire clip. That's bush league in my opinion.

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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-26-05, 08:49 PM (EST)
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57. "Agree"
That's bush league in my opinion.

Mine too. Even Don King wouldn't do that ... though he'd steal your money!

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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

04-27-05, 01:04 AM (EST)
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58. "RE: Agree"
Finally had a chance to talk to Ishe about episode 9 and his fight with Sergio. Finally got some interesing behind-the-scenes tidbits from him. REALLY interesting info: for example, about the "source" of the rumors to which Sergio alluded in the kitchen scene on the website, and the reason for Jackie et al criticizing his post-fight reaction, as well as some sneaky behaviors on the part of the producers prior to the fight. But ... I am sworn to secrecy. At least until May 25th. Sorry for the shameless tease, but I couldn't resist. Tee hee.

One thing though: he, too, was upset with the way they labeled some of his videos on Episode 9, and told the producers so. As a result "Ishe: Still talking trash," has been re-titled to "No way for Sugar Shay." Exctly what that means, and why they couldn't have changed it to something like "Ishe: Humble and Thankful," which would have been an accurate reflection of the clip's content, is beyond me.

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pdaj 47 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"

04-27-05, 01:38 AM (EST)
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59. "RE: Agree"
Dear VFW:

That tease is inexcusable!

Haha, you're kilin' us here!

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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

05-02-05, 09:45 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
All i can say is AMEN!! (lol)
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sniknuh 4 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-03-05, 06:51 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
I love it when every one of the GOD in my corner fighters say that it was'nt God's will after they get their butt kicked. Christians like these just ruin it for anyone considering a closer look at Christianity....not that I am or ever was! AMEN
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Radical 7 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-04-05, 05:49 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: Ishe Smith is a freak and hyocrite"
LAST EDITED ON 05-04-05 AT 05:51 PM (EST)

During the Sergio/Ishe fight, it looked like Sly and Sugar were rooting for Ishe. And, Tommy went to Ishe's corner when it looked like he was losing. I agree with alot of your comments, but i don't think there's a big conspiracy towards Ishe here.

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