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"SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
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Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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04-30-05, 02:32 PM (EST)
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"SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
Folks, our guidelines are clear - do not reveal spoilers in the subject line or first 200 characters of a post.

This thread has been started to replace a thread discussing tomorrow night's episode that violated that guideline. I'll copy in the responses from posters to that thread who were speculating on how the match-up would occur.

The spoiler is that Tivo revealed the fight would be between Joey and Peter, and this corresponds with the spoiler from Vegas Fight Writer.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Replies Bebo 04-30-05 1
   RE: Replies jenniferlyn 05-01-05 2
       RE: Replies pdaj 05-01-05 3
           RE: Replies ladro 05-01-05 4
               RE: Replies Rebellwyr 05-01-05 5
                   RE: Replies ladro 05-01-05 6
                       RE: Replies volsfan 05-01-05 8
                           RE: Replies ARnutz 05-01-05 9
                           RE: Replies pdaj 05-01-05 10
                               RE: Replies volsfan 05-01-05 12
 RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... pdaj 05-01-05 7
   RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... ladro 05-01-05 14
       RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... kay_tin 05-01-05 16
       RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... volsfan 05-01-05 18
 RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... kay_tin 05-01-05 11
   RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... volsfan 05-01-05 13
       RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... kay_tin 05-01-05 15
           RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... volsfan 05-01-05 17
               RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... kay_tin 05-01-05 19
                   RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... volsfan 05-01-05 20
                       RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Epi... kay_tin 05-01-05 21

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Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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04-30-05, 02:34 PM (EST)
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1. "Replies"
From AlgeCrumpler

I think Sergio wins and sets it up. However, it is not a smart move by Sergio because he should pit the weakest fighters together to have the best shot at going up against someone weak in the final 4. Just think, if Jessee and Manfredo squared off then you would have Bonsante the gimp or Joey the noob to beat in the final 4.
Sergio is a fool for thinking Joey gave his car away for strategic reasons. Joey could've won and picked Anthony last week if thats really what he wanted.


From kay_tin

Joey states in a clip on the Yahoo site this week that his goal all along was to make it to the third round. He's got to know that he doesn't have much of a chance against Peter or Jesse, so I have no doubt that he does seriously consider going against the injured guy.
I'm thinking that Sergio wins the competition and decides to pick Peter and Joey to fight. It falls right into two of the things Sergio talked about on the last episode. It stops Joey from playing more mind games with all of them by putting him up against the strongest one left, and also has Peter fighting Peter. Its that 600 pound gorilla thing, Sergio mentioned last week. Peter likes Joey (and vice versa). While Peter will box to win, he might well feel guilty over hitting him too hard. While $40,000 isn't even close to $1,000,000, but it was a pretty generous gift, and it could well take some pyschological toll in the ring.

I'm going to add a question to the thread here, and I'm sure I know what some of the response will be. NBC is touting Joey as the heart and soul of the show thus far. Does anyone really see him as that? While he did well in the group competitions, I haven't found his story nearly as compelling as the others, except for Ahmed perhaps. While Jesse's antics amuse me, I really see Sergio and Alfonso as the heart and soul of the show.


From Rebellwyr

well from a "pull your heartstrings" standpoint, i don't think joey's story is very compelling. I would agree and say sergio and alfonso are more the "rags to riches" type. However, I think Joey will show he has a lot of heart in the ring. From what i have heard he loses this fight due to a headbutt, they go to the cards and he is down on points. It will be interesting to see the fight though. I think joey may be more talented in the ring than he is given credit for...it will be interesting to listen to manfredo's comments after the fight. The more I have thought about it, the more i think joey gave peter the truck w/o mal intent. Joey may be a true gentleman after all.

From pdaj

"I'm thinking that Sergio wins the competition and decides to pick Peter and Joey to fight. It falls right into two of the things Sergio talked about on the last episode. It stops Joey from playing more mind games with all of them by putting him up against the strongest one left, and also has Peter fighting Peter."
And let's not forget what VFW told us a few days ago -- it appears as though there was a definite snitch or "instigator" within the house. Is he talking about Joey? We saw Sergio question Peter and Jesse about who this person might be. Thus, does Mora take the opportunity to rid the house of the nuissance? It's a definite possibility.



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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 07:33 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Replies"
Everyone keeps calling joey names for having given Manfredo the truck, hello?? In my world, if someone gave me a $40,000 truck, that makes them a GOOD GUY!! Plus, this IS a reality show, with a million dollar prize attached, so any "manipulating" on the part of Joey or Jesse, or anyone else in that house, shouldn't be looked down upon. I wonder if everyone would be saying such nasty things if the someone like Sergio or Alfonso had been the ones to give the truck away.
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pdaj 47 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 09:18 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Replies"
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-05 AT 09:24 AM (EST)

"Everyone keeps calling joey names for having given Manfredo the truck, hello?? In my world, if someone gave me a $40,000 truck, that makes them a GOOD GUY!!"

Well, that depends. You believe he gave the truck to Peter because they're friends -- I think he did it to secure the alliance. Thus, his act was selfish, and he wasn't very giving after all.

"Plus, this IS a reality show, with a million dollar prize attached, so any "manipulating" on the part of Joey or Jesse, or anyone else in that house, shouldn't be looked down upon."

Now you're trying to play both sides. If Joey gave Peter the truck away for the purpose of generosity, he's a good guy. But even if he didn't, it's okay ... because it's a reality show! So, basically, Joey's intentions have no consequences as far as your concerned. Perhaps you're a little biased?

Yes, this is a reality show. But just because manipulation has a tendancy to seep it's way onto these type of shows, doesn't mean it has to be respected.

"I wonder if everyone would be saying such nasty things if the someone like Sergio or Alfonso had been the ones to give the truck away."

If it was evident either Alfonzo or Sergio did so for reason of manipulation, the discussion would be the same.

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ladro 1168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 10:45 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Replies"
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-05 AT 10:49 AM (EST)


If giving away the truck was a strategic move, then it was poor stategy IMHO.

I am surprised there has not been more discussion on this matter. Giving away a $40,000 Truck in what now amounts to a Round Robin Tournyment has to be one of the worst strategic moves in Reality TV history.

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Rebellwyr 34 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 11:35 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Replies"
exactly why i don't think it was strategic.
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ladro 1168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 12:55 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Replies"
I don't know for sure if Joey gave the Truck away as a strategy or as a gift. (either way it seems equally stupid to me)

But I ask myself what is more probable: That some kid boxer gives away a $40,000 truck to some other kid boxer out of the goodness of his heart, and makes a big deal about it so that everyone knows he gave the Truck away. Or that is was part of strategy.

When I ask myself this question, I am inclined to see it as part of a poorly thoughout strategy.

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 02:14 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Replies"
If you don't want to read my rambling...just read the conclusion!

Who knows what actually went down and how. However, keep in mind that EPMB (Mark Burnette) is telling a story and there is a reason he didn't show us why Joey decided to give away the truck. Until we know the real reason there is no way I can judge whether it was a good strategy or not. Who knows?

If you remember Jesse gave up first and then Joey stopped at the finish line. I think Jesse and Joey threw it on purpose to hold it over Manfredo's head to get the matches they wanted. IMHO! This could work to get them to the next round if they get the matches they want and if neither of them want Manfredo (we saw Jesse back down) then manipulate him so that if he (Manfredo) wins a challenge he picks someone else other than them.

I think Jesse is the person that is manipulating this game to his advantage. EPMB never revels the strategic moves until he has to...it is the same way with Survivor. The story has to be compelling with twists and the only way to achieve this is by keeping some of the manipulating from us. The saying we have over on the spoiling board for this is "an alliance shown doesn't succeed".

Conclusion: I think Jesse and Joey are trying to manipulate Manfredo in getting the matches they want and they are using the truck to get the leverage. Mark Burnette never shows the manipulating until he has to!

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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 02:39 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Replies"
You're probably right! Remember the shower scene? (gosh that sound like it's from a bad horror film)

Jesse, Sergio & Peter are all in the showers and Sergio & that trainer guy think it's all a big manipulation, then Jesse dismisses it!


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pdaj 47 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 02:48 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Replies"
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-05 AT 02:49 PM (EST)

"Conclusion: I think Jesse and Joey are trying to manipulate Manfredo in getting the matches they want and they are using the truck to get the leverage. Mark Burnette never shows the manipulating until he has to!"

Interesting. The only problem I have with that theory can be explained by viewing Alfonso's website. In his episode 10 "diary" he says the following:

"The challenge was pretty cool. Too bad Anthony hurt himself, and Jesse puked after the first half mile hehee thatís why his wife carried him back to the finish line."

Would Jesse really goes as far as throwing up in order to "fool" everyone? According to Gomez, Jesse's failing was pretty realistic.

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 03:48 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Replies"
The agreement could have been for Jesse or Joey...who ever was in the lead (if Manfredo wasn't) to stop at the finish line. When Jesse went out then Joey knew what to do. Joey knew who was in second place because he stopped to let Manfredo win. I don't think Joey would have stopped had Jesse been in second place. Keep in mind...I am speculating that Joey and Jesse are in this together working as a team so they would have worked out all the plans!

I am not saying that Jesse didn't puke and I thought all along there was something we didn't see. So, when Jesse went down...Joey knew what to do.

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pdaj 47 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 01:21 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
In yahoo's preview for tonight's show, Joey says .. "At first I thought about fighting Peter Manfredo, but .."

Hmmm, so Joey gave the truck to the guy he was considering fighting? This goes beyond coincidence, people. Gilbert's constantly looking for the mental edge .. and what's a 40k truck worth to a future lawyer trying to make a million as a boxer? Now, there's no question this move looks silly to the average television viewer. But Joey doesn't fall into that category.

Now -- I don't think Gilbert's a "punk" for doing this. Heck, this is the game he has to play for a chance to win. He's attempting to cover as many angles as possible and protect himself from obtaining a disadvantage in the ring. And that's fine. But let's just call it how it is!

And when it comes down to it, do we really care? A poor kid from Providence gets a brand new ride, Joey gets the Alfonzo-Ahmed fight he wanted, and both Manfredo and Gilbert live to fight another day.

But eventually, the game ends ..

And that could be tonight.

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ladro 1168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 05:07 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
"""and what's a 40k truck worth to a future lawyer trying to make a million?"""

Well.. $40,000.

Those who know way more than I do about boxing don't give Joey a chance of winning. So does Joey really think he has a chance of winning the $1,000,000? Not if he is as smart as you think he is.

There are lawyers and then there are Lawyers. Lawyers that hustle and/or land jobs with big firms can make big bucks. But there are a lot of people with law degrees that sit around an office all day long waiting for the phone to ring. And/or work as paper processors for Credit and Collections companies. Or leave the profession altogether. Since Joey graduated Thomas Jefferson school of law in May 2003, and didn't pass the Bar exam till June 2004, one can reasonably conclude that Joey took at least two tries, and possibly three to pass the Bar exam (70% of first time test takers pass their first time). Additionally, TJsol is ranked near the bottom of US law schools http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/2/asc/LawSchool

Based on those facts, I think I can confidently say that Joey does not fall into the 'future big time Lawyer' category. So, whether Joey knows it or not, giving away a $40,000 truck was a stupid move (unless Sly already had some side deal with Joey).

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kay_tin 161 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 05:23 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
>Based on those facts, I think
>I can confidently say that
>Joey does not fall into
>the 'future big time Lawyer'
>category. So, whether Joey knows
>it or not, giving away
>a $40,000 truck was a
>stupid move (unless Sly already
>had some side deal with
>Joey).


Joey's serious about boxing, he's working on building a clientele (particularly in the sports world), he's a partner in a law firm here in Reno, he's the new spokesman for Sly's company, and he's had tons of exposure as the "heart and soul" of The Contender. I also think I remember reading/hearing a quote about being interested in politics and entertainment.
Perhaps he won't be the next big trial lawyer, but I seriously doubt he's going to miss the $40,000 in the long run.

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 05:34 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
I totally disagree with you on the fact that it is a stupid move. Trust me...there is more to this than meets the eye and what we have been shown.
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kay_tin 161 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 03:34 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
Joey drives a Land Rover, and most likely does quite well for himself as a lawyer/agent, so its not exactly like he needed the Toyota anyway. While giving the truck to Peter probably doesn't exactly hurt his cause, I really doubt it was only done for manipulative purposes. There have been several times Joey has mentioned that he is looking out for himself, Jesse and Peter. Here was an opportunity for him to "look out" for Peter who mostly likely doesn't drive anything nearly as nice. My sense is that Joey realized he wouldn't be able to make it to the final match, but that he wanted to be around as long as possible and help those he liked along the way. Hey, at this point he's reportedly Jesse's agent, why not work on being Peter's too?
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 03:54 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-05 AT 03:55 PM (EST)

There have been several times Joey has mentioned that he is looking out for himself, Jesse and Peter.

This is exactly what I am saying! It is an alliance! Remember when we first learned about the first round matches being planned? If they were already planned then the cameras HAD to catch discussions of the plans...there is no way that went down without getting caught and discussed. Yet, we get down to the last 4 (to fight in the first round) and all of a sudded we hear that the matches have already been agreed upon by the boxers. I am almost for certain that the earlier matches were agreed upon by the boxers. EPMB didn't show us this because he wanted the drama of building up to the fights and telling the story of how we got there...not manipulation from the boxers to get the fight they wanted!

The funny thing? Never once was it mentioned as to who was behind the plan to set the matches. I think it is either Jesse or Joey with my money going to Jesse.

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kay_tin 161 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 05:15 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
I do think you have come up with some good theories, volsfan. Joey and Jesse knew each other before Contender and its not like either or them is unintelligent. I don't what to think they are simply manipulating Peter though, I prefer to think of it as a case of deciding they really like him as a person and respect him as a boxer. Hey, we can all have our little bits of delusion, right? Ultimately The Contender is a reality show, and everyone who appears on a reality show has his/her own reasons and ways to play the game. Whether or not all the boxers knew there would be so much strategy is really not the point. They all have had tons more exposure and have made some new fans. I never thought I would like boxing or care to watch any of it, and now I'm a fan of some of these guys at least.
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 05:30 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
When you get people together that will do whatever it takes to make their dreams come true...they will do anything to make it happen! I know some of these guys have had terrible and hard lives...maybe Manfredo (and the others) doesn't watch TV and wasn't aware of the plotting that might go into the game. Remember the shower scene from last week...they are plotting!

It just seems to me that someone is driving this bus and the lead characters are Jesse and Joey. Kay_tin, I don't know if you watch other Mark Burnette shows like Survivor or The Apprentice but the editing of this show has been very similar to the other two shows in that MB is telling a story and just like a really good book...he doesn't give up much info before it's time.

I may be totally off base here and no where close but so far this seems logical. I guess we will just have to wait and see!

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kay_tin 161 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 06:02 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
Nah, I don't think you are completely offbase at all. I think some of the boxers showed up to box, hoping to be the best while others showed up to strategize themselves into the final round while doing some boxing along the way (namely Joey and Jesse, and less successfully Anthony). I think Sergio is one of the few who showed up to box and has since realized he needed to do more.

I've never been a huge EPMB conspiracy theorist, but I do realize he tells a story and lets us see information as he wants. BTW, volsfan, I've been lurking on this site for years, since Survivor Outback and remember your postings cheering on Tina. At least I think it was you?

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 06:06 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
BTW, volsfan, I've been lurking on this site for years, since Survivor Outback and remember your postings cheering on Tina. At least I think it was you?

WOW! Great memory! That was me *blushes*!

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kay_tin 161 desperate attention whore postings
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05-01-05, 10:00 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: SPOILER - Discussion of 5/1 Episode"
Its easy to remember those who post thoughtful stuff....

;)

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