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"May 9th"
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trigirl 2844 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:11 PM (EST)
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"May 9th"
Man that was good. I don't want it to end. Can't it keep going all summer long. Is that enough filler?

Saw little Benny. Nice friend to Anne he turned out to be. Didn't think to send her a birthday gift....say, like GASMASK. Creepy.

The hostiles don't seem to age...or at least Richard doesn't.

Can't wait to go back and watch my recording of the visit to Jacob in slow motion. Man that was cool!

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: May 9th HobbsofMI 05-09-07 1
   RE: May 9th emydi 05-10-07 9
       RE: May 9th Ice 9 05-10-07 11
           RE: May 9th emydi 05-10-07 15
               RE: May 9th ohmyheck 05-10-07 38
                   RE: May 9th zombiebaby 05-11-07 46
                       RE: May 9th ohmyheck 05-11-07 56
                           RE: May 9th Chez 05-11-07 57
 RE: May 9th trigirl 05-09-07 2
   RE: May 9th TenPin 05-10-07 19
       RE: May 9th Ice 9 05-10-07 22
 RE: May 9th J Slice 05-10-07 3
   Screencaps Tiger Lily 05-10-07 4
       RE: Screencaps pinksparkleguitar 05-10-07 6
   RE: May 9th Chez 05-10-07 28
 RE: May 9th pinksparkleguitar 05-10-07 5
 WTF? zombiebaby 05-10-07 7
 RE: May 9th trigirl 05-10-07 8
   RE: May 9th cycles2k 05-11-07 45
 RE: May 9th Ice 9 05-10-07 10
   RE: May 9th zombiebaby 05-10-07 12
 RE: May 9th CTgirl 05-10-07 13
 Sonic Fence trigirl 05-10-07 14
 Richard weltek 05-10-07 16
   RE: Richard emydi 05-10-07 20
   RE: Richard Corvis 05-10-07 24
       RE: Richard emydi 05-10-07 26
       RE: Richard mrc 05-10-07 27
       RE: Richard sharnina 05-12-07 64
 RE: May 9th mrc 05-10-07 17
   RE: May 9th The Cake 05-10-07 18
       RE: May 9th emydi 05-10-07 21
           RE: May 9th Ice 9 05-10-07 23
               RE: May 9th pinksparkleguitar 05-10-07 39
           RE: May 9th The Cake 05-10-07 32
               RE: May 9th emydi 05-11-07 58
       RE: May 9th mrc 05-10-07 25
 More accumulated thoughts Ice 9 05-10-07 29
   RE: More accumulated thoughts J I M B O 05-10-07 41
       RE: More accumulated thoughts michel 05-11-07 52
           Richard and Ben/Locke Ice 9 05-11-07 53
               RE: Richard and Ben/Locke Scarlett O Hara 05-11-07 61
           RE: More accumulated thoughts CTgirl 05-11-07 54
           RE: More accumulated thoughts Chez 05-11-07 55
       RE: More accumulated thoughts Chez 05-13-07 66
           RE: More accumulated thoughts miamicatt 05-16-07 67
 RE: May 9th CutsyTootsy 05-10-07 30
 Stupid minor detail miamicatt 05-10-07 31
   RE: Stupid minor detail Ice 9 05-10-07 34
       RE: Stupid minor detail CutsyTootsy 05-10-07 35
       RE: Stupid minor detail CTgirl 05-10-07 36
           RE: Stupid minor detail Ice 9 05-10-07 37
               RE: Stupid minor detail CTgirl 05-10-07 43
   RE: Stupid minor detail J I M B O 05-10-07 40
       RE: Stupid minor detail miamicatt 05-11-07 59
           RE: Stupid minor detail Chez 05-11-07 60
 RE: May 9th michel 05-10-07 33
   RE: May 9th AugustGirl 05-11-07 47
       RE: May 9th warp_core breach 05-11-07 48
 I have far-fetched ideas moonbaby 05-10-07 42
 RE: May 9th AugustGirl 05-10-07 44
 RE: May 9th Scarlett O Hara 05-11-07 49
   RE: May 9th AugustGirl 05-11-07 50
 Miscellaneous Dharma info from the ... Ice 9 05-11-07 51
 Jacob's eye? Chez 05-11-07 62
 All I know is zombiebaby 05-11-07 63
 Ben Not a 'Good One' trigirl 05-12-07 65

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HobbsofMI 15959 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:15 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: May 9th"
If Locke dies....I'm done....they already kill Eko....they can't kill Locke!

Great show....I went threw Jacob in slow motion....can't tell who it is but he looked dead.


Save the Cheerleader Save the World
sig by Pepe and bouncy by IceCat

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 09:51 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: May 9th"
I immediately thought to myself...OMH what will Slicey think!! She loves Ben and Locke..

I don't want Locke to die either...that would be a huge loss to the show...he's too much of an integral part of the story.

My questions are:

Will Locke's specialness save him? Will he be presumed dead and maybe end up with Rousseau next season as a surprise? If he does die, will Ben go back to being in a wheelchair?

Did Rousseau's daughter give the gun to Locke to kill Ben? does she know who Jacob is?

I didn't watch closely but was Ben's friend Anne dead? or is she the "judge" (I can't rememember her Name) the blond haired woman in the Jack stupid tattoo show?

Why doesn't Richard age?

Is the dust that Locke smelled and picked up volcanic ash...remember they talked about the volcano erupting in the classroom with Ben?

I thought Ben had multiple personalities...bc of his Dad messing with him about killing his mom...but I don't think so after thinking about it and viewing the slow motion...I agree..it's Locke with a wig.

Was the same song on the radio when Hurly got the van going as when Ben and his dad shut it off before Ben killed him?

and finally

Why wasn't it Kate or Jack that Ben shot?

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Ice 9 288 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 10:34 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: May 9th"
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 10:36 AM (EST)

Good catch on the volcanic ash! I was wondering what he was doing there. Whatever it was, Ben didn't like it.

Ben is so totally marked for death. I'll be sad to see him go, but they've really done all they can with his character. It's time for that group to transition away from him.

And yes, it was the same song on the radio. 8 track tape, perhaps?

Oh, and I echo your sentiments about who got shot.

ETA: The judge from "Stranger in a Strange Land" was named Isabel. So unless she's changed her name, it's not the same person.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 11:52 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: May 9th"
thx Ice!! Did they show Anne dead? I'll have to watch again if dbf doesn't erase dvr...

I think Ben is a goner too...I actually liked him/felt really sorry for him as a kid...but as an adult meh...

Maybe Kate and Jack and Ben will all die in the major showdown coming..

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05-10-07, 06:39 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: May 9th"
I have a theory. Annie could be Rousseau years ago. Her story about the expedition could be a fabrication. I really want a Danielle flashback.
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05-11-07, 07:55 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: May 9th"
What about the French accent? The little girl did not have one.
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05-11-07, 03:20 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: May 9th"
She is one of the Others, scheming with Ben, Alex is her and Ben's daughter, she went undercover when the plane crashed on the island. We did not see her corpse for a reason. The accent is fake.
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Chez 670 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 03:23 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: May 9th"
That would be mind-blowing.
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trigirl 2844 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:17 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: May 9th"
oops...forgot to mention....

Benny was born "not in Portland"...32 miles to be precise.

Jacob apparently only speaks to Ben, yet Ben couldn't hear what he said to John.

Have we forgotten about Rose...her cancer has been healed by the Island...is she 'special' like John?

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TenPin 263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 12:42 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: May 9th"

Have we forgotten about Rose...her cancer has been healed by the Island...is she 'special' like John?

Speaking of Rose (and Bernard for that matter) in the previews for next week there is a scene of what looks like Sayid teaching her and Bernard how to shoot a rifle. It comes in the preview as smoke clears and a Dharma beer can is in the foreground with Sayid standing next to Rose with Bernard aiming the rifle.

Just a quick flash, but I am pretty sure it is them.


TenPin

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Ice 9 288 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 01:50 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: May 9th"
The write up for next week's episode has them in the cast, so yeah, it's them.

spoiler alert: The cast list also had a little surprise (invisible text below)...

Sayid's Nadia is supposedly making an appearance. In Charlie's flashback episode. Presumably in England. Weird. Unless she's on the island. Which would be even weirder.

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05-10-07, 00:08 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: May 9th"
I don't know if you guys spotted it, but there was a person visible in the Jacob scene for only a flash. I checked out the still... and the guy's wearing what looks to be pirate garb.

My theory?

Richard, Jacob, and the other hostiles came over on the Black Rock.


Proudly making Jack look stupid

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05-10-07, 02:17 AM (EST)
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4. "Screencaps"
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/11-frames-of-jacob.html

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05-10-07, 02:24 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Screencaps"
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 02:47 AM (EST)


Thank you!!!

ETA: Some of the theories mentioned in the comments are great: Jacob being John in another dimension, Jacob being Hanso, the grey ashes being ashes to keep a spirit from wandering, questioning whether or not Ben can really hear Jacob, or was just pretending and Locke really did hear him, all sorts of fun things to ponder!


Tribe rocked me!

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Chez 670 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 02:30 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: May 9th"
The Jacob image looks like it could be Locke with hair, or it could be Christian Shepherd.
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05-10-07, 02:22 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: May 9th"
Ok, first of all, someone's got to find a picture of the stillshot of the glimpse of Jacob for people who don't have Tivo, like me.

Question: Why doesn't Richard age? Who are these people? Why do they accept Ben as a sort of quasi-leader, And most importantly, why would Ben ever part his hair on the side?

Question: What is Jacob? A spirit? Ghost? Hologram? David Blaine?

Question: What was the substance that Locke saw on the ground, stopped, picked-up and sniffed on the way to Jacob's? DH guessed gunpowder.

Question: Why does Jacob need Locke's help? Why was Ben so desperate to know what he said? Did Locke need to kill his father because Ben had to kill his? Does Ben ever blink?

I'm really interested to hear more theories now.


Tribe rocked me!

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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 07:46 AM (EST)
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7. "WTF?"
Another great episode and it brought the creepy back!

Looked to me like Locke with a wig. I remember him in the first season saying to Walt "Two sides dark and light" or something like that with the Othello game. Remember? We all thought it was about two groups. Maybe it is about people? Also remember all the games they showed in the first season? Mousetrap? I really need to watch the first seaon again cause I think we are forgetting things that could help!

Loved Roger Workman is Ben's dad!

The dolls! Is that what they found in the cave in the first season? Or was it a toy doll and not a carved doll?

Ben is such a lier!

What is up wiht Kate? She seemed really weird tonight? I still think they did something to her when she went missing.

So the Others are really the Hostiles?



A PhoenixMons Creation

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trigirl 2844 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 08:45 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: May 9th"
Anyone ever see the movie 'Jacob's Ladder'? Loved.that.movie!

From Wiki: Jacob's friend and chiropractor Louis (Danny Aiello) states the main thematic point of the film: in effect, hell is really purgatory, and those who are ready to let go of their lives do not find the experience 'hellish'.

C&C insist it is not purgatory...I think it is hell.

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cycles2k 538 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 01:58 AM (EST)
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45. "RE: May 9th"
Jacobs Ladder was a great movie. (Recently I was in the hospital and was wheeled on a stretcher through some long hallways. I kept thinking about the scene where they wheeled Jacob through the spooky hospital. - It was disturbing.)

In the end, the "dead" theory may be the only really satisfactory conclusion to Lost. Anything else might seem too contrived. The Island is not purgatory but it could be another place somewhere between alive and dead. - Only a theory, but it would sure be better than aliens or a government plot.

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Ice 9 288 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 10:30 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: May 9th"
Wow. *picks jaw off floor* OK, time to reassess. First off, I don't believe for a second that Locke's dead. All that build up toward his meeting with Jacob, and then Jacob's message of "Help me". That's too much for them to just turn around and kill him. Besides, they showed how quickly his hand healed from the bite he received from Cooper. They didn't show that for nothing. The island, or some force on it, will heal him. Resurrection mythology, anyone? Goes more toward the "Locke as savior" theory, which I had been equivocal about previously.

Here are my initial thoughts after that mind blower episode. Jacob is some manifestation of the island's force. It's the force that keeps the indigenous population (those who Dharma called "the hostiles", see: Alpert, Richard) from aging and can be a healing force. Jacob has asked for Locke's help because Ben has not listened to him. He has led his children astray, into the world of technology, and Jacob can't help them in that world. They will start to, for lack of a better phrase, become more mortal. He wants his children to thrive, but they can't as long as Ben is leading them down the wrong path. Locke gets it, and Jacob knows that Locke gets it. Does Ben get it? And why does Jacob talk only to Ben...until now, that is?

Ben has said twice now that only a few of his people were "born here". Alpert is the only one we've seen who predates Ben. We know Juliet was brought. We know Mikhail was brought. I'm curious how many more like Alpert there are. There seemed to be quite a few last night. What happened to them?

Bigger question: Jacob and Smokey--same force? competing forces? coexisting forces? I'll take "A" for right now.

Anyway, I think Alpert has realized that Ben's pursuits are ultimately bad for him and at least the rest of the indigenous people in the group, if not all of the group.

There's an interesting link now between Ben's history and his obsession with fertility and the pregnant women dying on the island.

I hope some of this mythology is cleared up a bit with the official podcast...and I hope it's released soon...like today

Back on the beach, Jack is annoying me no end. He's become quite the smug bastard. I find it very telling that he was demanding to know everything about Naomi and the tape--and seemed offended he was kept out of the loop--when he's got his own secrets with Juliet. I'm starting to hope he's one of our "casualties" in the finale.

So it looks like a 3-pronged showdown. Locke v. Ben v. The Beach. Maybe there will be the battle between the Others and the Losties, and in the midst of it, Locke comes in, back from the dead and ready to kick a$$. Or not.

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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 11:00 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: May 9th"
Yay waiting for you!

I agree about Jacob and smoke monster. I think they might be one and the same.

Now about the cabin Jacob was in...what was that picture? Was it a picture of Vincent?

Do the Others/Hostiles have the 4 toes?


One more of J
Slice's Awesome Creations!

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05-10-07, 11:25 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: May 9th"
Great opening, great episode. I was on the edge of my seat for the entire show!

I loved the Locke vs. Ben contest and the fact that Ben blinked. Ben is another character with daddy issues. I never realized how much of a sociopath he is. How ironic that Roger Work Man was his dad and that his body was found during the most lighthearted episode all season! The kid playing young Ben was wonderful and captured his creepiness from the beginning. And we saw a bunny in his flashback too, the only thing he’s been able to bond with except for Annie. (And I don’t think we’ve seen the end of Annie, she played too prominent a role in Ben’s life.)

Dharma (according to Wikipedia) means the correct understanding of Nature, but the Dharma Initiative was already altering the island before Ben came onto the scene. Ben partnered with the hostiles, but still didn’t take the island back to its roots. Ben communicates with Jacob, but he doesn’t really understand. I think Locke understands the island and wants to put it back they way it’s supposed to be. I can’t believe he’s dead; Jacob or the island will save him (yet again). And he’ll come back with guns blazing!

Richard is my new favorite creepy Other. Now that we know he was a hostile, I see his story line being picked up next year. Remember that the Others were dressed like hostiles when we first met them. I think Tom could be another original hostile; he certainly changes with the wind; he goes with whoever seems to have the upper hand.

Agreed Jack was way too smug this episode and Juliet was too smooth. They are up to something!


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trigirl 2844 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 11:48 AM (EST)
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14. "Sonic Fence"
Notice too that the sonic fence wasn't buzzing as it has in previous episodes, but rather featured all those whispering voices that we have heard in the jungle before. What's up with that? I would LOVE to read a transcript.

Little Benny showed real patience as required. How many years do you think were between his meeting Shaggy Richard to Shorn Richard? 20 or so?


Maybe I'm sick, but I'm thinking Richard is the hottie on the island now!

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05-10-07, 12:12 PM (EST)
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16. "Richard"
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 12:13 PM (EST)

He seems to be our real "?" right now.

He was possibly in charge of the "hostiles" and took Ben in...I'm guessing not by chance, but rather by design. Is Ben "special" like Walt? Did Walt have the ability to hear Jacob?

So as Ben grew older, why did Richard start answering to Ben? I don't think Ben took over the hostiles, as much as they choose/set him up to be the leader. What was the purpose of doing that?

Richard wanted Locke to kill his father and come back to camp. Why? It appears Ben didn't know Richard talked to Locke and gave him Sawyers folder of info.


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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 01:45 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Richard"
Is Ben "special" like Walt? Did Walt have the ability to hear Jacob?

I think so, remember he kept seeing his dead mom and he told Richard that the first time they met

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Corvis 3116 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 01:55 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Richard"
Are you guys sure that the guy young Ben met in the jungle who advised him to have patience was really Richard, who we saw all clean cut after the Purge? Played by the same actor and all? Because I thought he was someone completely different.

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05-10-07, 02:04 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Richard"
yeah it was him...I said to myself...hey that's Richard and wondered why he didn't age...bc he looks younger than Ben now and he had to be about 10 years+ older than Ben when they met
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05-10-07, 02:06 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Richard"
99.999999% sure. (I'm leaving a margin of error just.in.case.)

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05-12-07, 01:30 AM (EST)
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64. "RE: Richard"
It was Richard - he was too hot not to be.


Save the cheerleader, save the world.
Are you on the list? Someone flies, someone dies.

Shar's World

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05-10-07, 12:29 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: May 9th"
Absolutely incredible episode. Ben's Psycho moment was priceless.

Opinions on other boards seems to favor Jacob perhaps being a pirate from the Black Rock, perhaps caught in a time warp. Or even that Jacob is Locke in another dimension.


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18. "RE: May 9th"
Ok, so I was never much of a Locke fan, but last night he rocked. It was so nice to see someone finally question Ben about the island. I honestly don’t think he is dead. Alex purposely gave Locke the gun & gave Ben a weird look. I think possibly Alex loaded the gun with blanks because she knew Ben would try to take the gun & kill Locke. Even if you got shot with a blank, at that close range you would still get knocked off your feet & have an injury. Or at least I am hoping that is the case. Remember, Alex doesn’t trust Ben at all.

I have hated Jack since day 1 & tonight was no exception. Sayid asked him why he didn’t let them in on the information that Juliet knew & Jack says something like it wasn’t the right time!! I wished Sayid would have gone up & punched him. Now that would have been believable.
Speaking of unbelievable, did anyone else roll their eyes a little bit when Ben was talking to the empty chair before Jacob spoke to Locke? I know I was.

I agree, I think Richard is a great new character. Hopefully he won't die before the season is out.

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21. "RE: May 9th"
Welcome Cake!

Speaking of unbelievable, did anyone else roll their eyes a little bit when Ben was talking to the empty chair before Jacob spoke to Locke? I know I was.

I was saying to myself...why are you ruining such a good episode...but then it got really good again!

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23. "RE: May 9th"
Ditto. At first I thought "what a flippin copout". Then..."OMG".

Although in watching it a second time, I wonder if it wasn't half staged. I mean what if Ben did his little song and dance assuming that Jacob wouldn't present himself to Locke, Locke would think Ben was insane, and then he'd drop the whole thing. Only Jacob DID appear to Locke. Ben was not expecting this. That's why he had to shoot him.

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39. "RE: May 9th"
That's whay I thought Ben looked so freaked when he came out of the cabin after Locke...he was pissed and maybe a little scared that Jacob actually did talk to Locke, thus the desperation to know what he said.


Tribe rocked me!

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32. "RE: May 9th"
Thanks for the welcome emydi! Long time lurker, so I've known you & others for a long time from the Survivor boards.
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58. "RE: May 9th"
well get posting over there too!!! no lurking allowed
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25. "RE: May 9th"
Good thought about the blanks. I hadn't considered that possibility.

Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

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29. "More accumulated thoughts"
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 02:42 PM (EST)

Jacob - He sure looked 19th Century to me. Magnus Hanso, perhaps? If not, Black Rock-related then?

Richard Alpert and the Hostiles (Great band name, btw) - Clothing also looked "dated" and European. Are they Black Rock survivors? Are they just scavengers who have picked clothing off of the dead? And if they are Black Rock survivors, why no Africans? It was a slaving ship, after all.

ETA: I loved the scene where Ben asked Richard if he was a Hostile. "Do you even know what that word means?" was his response. The irony of Ben's question was not lost on him. Loved it. Dharma = The REAL Hostiles

If Jacob is Magnus Hanso, is that why Alvar Hanso funded Dharma? To find out what happened to his grandfather? Was there EVER a time when the Dharmites and the Hostiles got along?

Was the Purge the "Incident" referenced on the Blast Door? I believe that would've happened in '84. I don't think Ben would've been as old as he was projected to be in that final flashback scene in 1984. He probably would have been around 20 years old. I thought he was supposed to be more like 25, but it's hard to tell when you use the same actor, who is in his 40s IRL.

Is the Black Rock connection why Locke took Cooper to the ship to kill him, or is that mere coincidence?

I wonder if Alpert used young Ben to initiate the Purge. He needed an inside man to execute it. If so, how did Ben turn the tables and gain power? Because Jacob spoke to him? When did Jacob first speak/show himself to him? This is all probably season 4-type stuff. Damn you, slow calendar!

Also, DL/CC promised an answer to Walt's powers by season's end. I'm wondering how the hell they plan on fitting that in.

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41. "RE: More accumulated thoughts"

And if they are Black Rock survivors, why no Africans? It was a slaving ship, after all.

>> cuz if there were, the white man woulda been made dead quick...no?

Is the Black Rock connection why Locke took Cooper to the ship to kill him, or is that mere coincidence?

>> i was trying to think of some place that would've provided the same opportunity to cage the two of them together. i'm thinking the brig on that ship is about the only one with the hatch all blowed up. (also think it was significant moment when french jungle lady showed up...like the thot she may save locke in the pit.)

I wonder if Alpert used young Ben to initiate the Purge. He needed an inside man to execute it. If so, how did Ben turn the tables and gain power? Because Jacob spoke to him? When did Jacob first speak/show himself to him? This is all probably season 4-type stuff. Damn you, slow calendar!

>> my theory on ben is that he can uniquely conjur things with his mind. that's why it took the "hostile" by surprise when he said he had seen his dead mother. maybe other people can do it as well (jack's dad, kate's horse), but if ben is the master of it maybe that's how he got his leading role.

so...

i think jacob is the combination of a very crazy/schizo man and an amazing ability to create reality on the island. i also wouldn't be surprised if ben is the reincarnation of jacob, and is bringing a past persona to life with his gift. bottom line is i don't think jacob exists on his own, only 'through' ben in some way.

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52. "RE: More accumulated thoughts"
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-07 AT 01:00 PM (EST)


>"i think jacob is the combination
>of a very crazy/schizo man
>and an amazing ability to
>create reality on the island.
>...i don't think jacob
>exists on his own, only
>'through' ben in some way."

Interesting perspective Jimbo and opposite to what I was thinking. The question I have about this interpretation was the amazement we saw in Richard's eyes when Ben told him about his mother and the respect all the Others had when Locke said he was going to see Jacob.

Richard didn't doubt that Ben could see his mother. That implies they know of the visions but can't communicate with them as well as Ben can. That could also apply to Jacob who would pre-date Ben. The Others gave Ben their respect because he had proven he could communicate with Jacob. Maybe Richard brought Ben to the house and tested him by asking: "What do you see?" Ben would have replied something like "He says his name his Jacob."

I don't see Ben gaining that respect by inventing Jacob. Jacob could've been the captain of the Others' boat who has been trapped in a time warp since the arrival on the island. Or maybe the Others know that he is a way to return to the real world. But, as you suggest, they wouldn't be the first group of people to follow a crazy/schizo man!

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53. "Richard and Ben/Locke"
I'm inclined to agree more with Michel, but I don't think it's accidental that Richard was a key figure in both the Purge and Locke killing his father. It seems Richard is more in tune with the island (or at least more vocal about it) than the other Hostiles. I don't believe for an instant that it was coincidence that young Ben ran into Richard in the woods. Whether Richard and his group were waiting for a prophet-of-sorts or if they just knew that Ben was the archetype of someone who could communicate with 'Jacob', I'm not sure. But he was definitely anticipating Ben.

Ben and Locke have a lot of parallels. The key one as regards 'Jacob'/the Island is wanting to be accepted and wanting paternal love. Perhaps they are both open enough emotionally to be able to, in Locke's words, look into the eye of the island. Jacob is the father neither of them had. They seek him and he lets them in.

Perhaps Richard thought Ben was their ticket to harmony with 'Jacob'/the Island, but Ben failed them with his own personal agenda. Now Richard is looking for a replacement in Locke.

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61. "RE: Richard and Ben/Locke"
Ben and Locke do differ in one respect, however. Ben won't hesitate to use violence as a means to an end. He'll kill his father and he shot Locke. While Locke is a nonviolent person, who couldn't even kill the man that stole his kidney and tried to kill him. Although Locke did beat the heck out of Mikhail.

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54. "RE: More accumulated thoughts"
I really need to watch the first season again because what you said reminds me of parallels with Walt. He could see and hear things that no one else could (along with conjuring up things too). Did Ben send him away because he was "too" special? He didn't want any competition? DL and CC have said that Walt and Michael will be back in some way next season...
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55. "RE: More accumulated thoughts"
The idea of Jacob having been the captain of the Black Rock and trapped in a time warp made me think again of his likeness (to me at least, from the fuzzy images) to Christian Shepherd. Remember how names are important in Lost. Christian is an unusual name. What came to my mind relative to old sailing ships is Fletcher Christian, who led the mutiny on the Bounty and became the captain of that ship. He eventually sailed to Pitcairn Island, an uncharted island in the Pacific.
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66. "RE: More accumulated thoughts"
Not sure if this is the right spot for this but... regarding the Black Rock. Last week when Locke took Sawyer to the ship, he explained the slaves by saying they were going to be mining on the island. Mining for what? Has anyone said what type of mineral (I'm assuming) deposits are there?

One guess I would make is saltpeter (used in making gunpowder). Another could be some type of unusual magnetic element though I'm not sure people in the 19th centry had enough knowledge to be aware of this.

If it is saltpeter, could that fit with the "magic circle" of black powdery material surrounding Jacob's cabin? And what is the purpose of the circle? Apparently either to keep Jacob in, or to keep someone or something (Smokey?) out.

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67. "RE: More accumulated thoughts"
I'm wondering if the powdery stuff around the cabin isn't Smokey himself. I've always thought that Smokey isn't really "smoke", but rather particles of stuff that blend and move and look like smoke. Perhaps Smokey (or parts of him, or maybe there's more than one) fell apart as he approached the cabin.
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30. "RE: May 9th"
Great Show! Great assessments in this thread. I can't wait for the next 2 episodes.

I was thinking about Jack and Juliet and it just really bugs me that Juliet didn't seem very surprised to see the tape recorder. Is she just that good of a liar and smooth talker?



A Syren original

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31. "Stupid minor detail"
I always get myself fixated on one silly little detail in almost every episode.

This time? Ben's white rabbit. Wasn't there an episode in season 1 called "White Rabbit"?

I can't help thinking that it has some significance but danged if I know what it is.

Is it even significant? Or do I just like the cute bunny?

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34. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
Yep. First Jack flashback episode. Not that it's related to Ben, but the season finale episode is titled "Through the Looking Glass". Also Jack-centric.

What IS related to Ben is that he also used a white rabbit for his con on Sawyer earlier this season.

There are so many literal/cultural/mythological references in this show, it's hard sometimes to figure out what's important, what's just a nice reference, what's an inside joke, and what's "just a cigar".

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35. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
I think the producers like to use references to many books throughout their show. I see it as kind of an homage.


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36. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
I also thought the white rabbit was in the story for a reason. I forgot there was an episode called “White Rabbit.” It was Jack’s flashback when he went to Australia to bring his dead father back and he kept seeing him on the island.

(From Lostpedia on last night’s episode) In the 5th episode of the first Season “White Rabbit,” Locke tells Jack to follow the White Rabbit, meaning Jack's father's "ghost". Young Ben is now following an actual white rabbit in order to follow after his own mothers "ghost".

Lostpedia is exhaustively detailed, but it is good for a quick refresher on what happened! http://lostpedia.com/wiki/White_Rabbit

Also from Lostpedia: Jack and Locke discussed Jack's 'hallucination', and Locke told him that he should pursue it, to put it to rest, and considered the possibility that everything that was happening on the Island was for a reason. He then told Jack "I looked into the eye of the island and what I saw ... was beautiful." I think that’s the first time we saw that Locke was forming a special relationship with the island.

I think I’m going to have to rewatch the first season this summer!


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37. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
>(From Lostpedia on last night’s episode)
> In the 5th episode
>of the first Season “White
>Rabbit,” Locke tells Jack to
>follow the White Rabbit, meaning
>Jack's father's "ghost". Young Ben
>is now following an actual
>white rabbit in order to
>follow after his own mothers
>"ghost".

>
>Lostpedia is exhaustively detailed, but it
>is good for a quick
>refresher on what happened! http://lostpedia.com/wiki/White_Rabbit

Lostpedia is an *incredible* resource...especially for those "Oh yeah! What about THAT?" moments.

>I think I’m going to have
>to rewatch the first season
>this summer!

Some far-flung friends and I have decided to start a "LOST Episode Club" for the LOOONG hiatus. Kinda like a book club, only we'll pick episodes to watch for the week and then discuss what new nuggets we've found. I'm hoping we get through all 3 seasons by the time season 4 starts.

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43. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
>Lostpedia is an *incredible* resource...especially for
>those "Oh yeah! What
>about THAT?" moments.

Lostpedia is *incredible* I try to make my visits quick, because I can easily spend an hour or two clicking from topic to topic, “Oh what about this….”
>
>I'm hoping we get through
>all 3 seasons by the
>time season 4 starts.

Well you do have seven months! Have fun. It is going to be a looong hiatus!

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40. "RE: Stupid minor detail"

there was a rabbit? doood. i totally missed that.

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59. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
Finish your tacos, honey.

Back to the topic at hand somewhat, I think that this "Jacob" is Jack's dad. Maybe that's why he kept seeing him on the island...and maybe that's why the white rabbit is poking me in the mind.

The more I look at the screencaps of Jacob, the more I think he looks like Christian Shepard. I wish I could replay it and listen to the "help me" bit...I bet it sounds like Christian Shepard too.

And now I'm gonna go read the rest of the the thread where I'll bet somebody already said this.

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60. "RE: Stupid minor detail"
Yes,!! Glad to see someone else sees that resemblance. I just posted that a while ago. I agree with you and I think that could be why Jack kept "seeing" his father on the island. There are a number of missing details about Christian's past that come to mind.

Why was he traveling to Australia at the time back when he had the affair with Claire's mom? Could he have been stopping off on the island now and again whenever he visited Australia?

Why did he tell Ana-Lucia in the LA airport he was going to Australia to do something dangerous? That was never explained. Maybe he was part of the reason the plane crashed.

Why was the coffin empty after the crash? Maybe his dad was close to death, but when the plane crashed the body had a chance to recover - at least to the point of being a phantom.

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33. "RE: May 9th"
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 05:18 PM (EST)

Great episode! I think Richard is very interesting. He doesn't age, leading to the conclusion that the original inhabitants of the island are trapped in another dimension than ours. They do not age and they do not have babies, not because they are infertile but because babies can't grow.

Richard was surprised that Ben could see and hear his mother. That could mean that the Others hear the voices in the jungle but cannot understand the words or see anyone. That's why they took Ben in, hoping he could see and talk to not only his mother but Jacob also. Ben can see and hear Jacob but he doesn't seem to understand the words. They are not on the same dimensional plane or out-of-phase or something like that.

Ben still took over. The Others look for children, not because they need to populate the island but because children can hear sounds adults can't. They are looking for someone "Special." Ben, with his own questions about his birth, may have tried to find a way for the Others to make their own babies, thus bringing in Juliette. Richard said it was a pointless quest or something like that.

With the Losties, the Others saw that other people could be "Special". They were hoping that John could be a better conduit than Ben so that's why they let John give orders to Ben.

Ben was surprised at hearing about the arrival of Naomie. It could be an indication that the whole island had been caught in another dimension, maybe after the "Incident" the Dharma initiation talked about. The implosion of the hatch ended that and now the island is visible.

ETA: The white rabbit, I think, is a reference to Alice in Wonderland.

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47. "RE: May 9th"
Great episode! I think Richard is very interesting. He doesn't age, ...

I rewatched the episode this morning, and the one scene that really struck me was when Ben was looking at his birthday doll in the tent, and Richard came in. After telling Richard it was his birthday, he said--in that truly weird Ben way-- "You do remember birthdays Richard".

Very interesting.


a J Slice original. bounce by Icey.

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48. "RE: May 9th"
>I rewatched the episode this morning,
>and the one scene that
>really struck me was when
>Ben was looking at his
>birthday doll in the tent,
>and Richard came in.
>After telling Richard it was
>his birthday, he said--in that
>truly weird Ben way-- "You
>do remember birthdays Richard".

Ahhhh! Good one.

Everyone's theories on this thread are entirely plausible. What ticks me off is that there's only two more episodes left and we'll be left hanging with more questions for a very very long time! Locke will not be dead! He's too much of a key component to this whole thing!

I think Richard's pretty hot! I need him to stick around for a while! (*fans self*)



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42. "I have far-fetched ideas"
that Jacob is a spirit, the magic circle around his property is meant to keep him in. That Ben didn't want Locke messing around with it because he'd break the circle and Jacob could get out. That Richard is from the Black Rock, he doesn't age because...he is also other worldly but somehow through the island's powers he found a way to have substance (but that doesn't explain how he could travel off island to recruit Juliette, so...I dunno). That the island itself is some sort of link to that other world, because now and then we see some known dead people walking around and talking. This Richard dude is interesting and creepy.

One more very VERY important thing. Locke cannot be dead-I won't have it! Ben mentioned that he hoped Jacob would help Locke...and I truly hope that Locke WILL get help from the poltergeist-like entity.

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44. "RE: May 9th"
I just watched the episode and am so blown away I don't know what to think. Maybe if I let it sink in a bit I'll have something to add.

But for now, wow. Just wow.


However, Jacob DOES look like Locke with hair.

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49. "RE: May 9th"
Wow! What a great episode! It keeps getting better and better, especially after such a poor start to the season last Fall.

Here are my thoughts ...

First, I feel strongly that Locke will live to see another day. The Island will heal him. Jacob will heal him. He will survive! He will be back.

Secondly, I thought it was very interesting the way that the Others did not respond to Ben's pleas to stop Locke from beating the crap out of Mikhail. Is Locke becoming their new Leader? Will he replace Ben? The fact that Jacob pleaded to Locke to "Help Me" reconfirms this suspicion. Also, the fact that Richard provided the folder on Sawyer to assist Locke in killing his father also supports this idea.

Based on what Michel said ... "Ben still took over. The Others look for children, not because they need to populate the island but because children can hear sounds adults can't. They are looking for someone "Special." Ben, with his own questions about his birth, may have tried to find a way for the Others to make their own babies, thus bringing in Juliette. Richard said it was a pointless quest or something like that. When Richard gave Sawyer's folder to Locke, he told Locke at that time that the procreation issue was secondary or was only a distraction (or something to that effect) and that there was indeed, a much greater, or more important task or job to be done. Does any one remember this conversation?

The writing is truly on the wall for Ben. His days on the island are numbered. I do believe he will not live to see next season. It also appears as if Richard has chosen Locke as the new Leader.

I also believe that Jacob and Smokey are one and the same and the ring of whatever substance that is, keeps Jacob/Smokey from getting out.

What puzzles me the most about this show is Danielle. Why have the Others/Dharma/Hostiles let her remain on the island? They apparently know all about everyone else. What is it in her background that allows her to come and go at will without being harmed? We still have not seen her reaction to having seen Alex at the Dock at the Other's island. Why was she at the Black Rock when Locke stood gaurd over Sawyer and his father? When will she be reunited with Alex?

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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 10:32 AM (EST)
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50. "RE: May 9th"
Why was she at the Black Rock when Locke stood gaurd over Sawyer and his father? When will she be reunited with Alex?

We did see her get the dynamite, and the previews at the end of this episode showed explosions. Jack did say they would blow the place up. Either the Losties go back to the Black Rock to get their own supply, or Danielle helps them in the upcoming Others/Losties Beach war.

Personally I feel she has been following them, watching Alex, and is probably aware of their plans. She might even use the distraction of a battle to grab Alex. I have no doubt that Danielle will come face to face with her daughter, hopefully before next season.

What I find interesting is back last season when she caught "Henry Gale", little did she know she had the man who was pretending to be Alex's father. If she had only known then...


a J Slice original. bounce by Icey.

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Ice 9 288 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 11:52 AM (EST)
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51. "Miscellaneous Dharma info from the episode "
Horace Goodspeed was a Mathmetician and had an Arrow Station patch on his coveralls.

Roger Linus had a Swan Station patch on his coveralls both in his drunken birthday encounter with young Ben and also on his last day when Ben gasses him.

Most of the barracks support staff had generic Dharma patches--Opal (the woman who tells Roger he can apply for other jobs as they come open), Olivia (Ben's teacher), and 2 of the greeters at the dock (one had a Pearl Station patch).

Dr. Marvin Candle had a Swan Station patch on his white lab coat in the video

The medic/doctor giving out shots to the new recruits had a Staff Station patch (shocker).

Ben had NO patch on his coveralls.

I didn't see anyone with a Flame Station patch or a Hydra Station patch.

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Chez 670 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 05:27 PM (EST)
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62. "Jacob's eye?"
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-07 AT 05:36 PM (EST)

Did anyone make a note of the eye that was seen during Jacob's (non)appearance?

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Eye.png

Does this give us any additional clues? Locke and Ben both have blue eyes so it is not either of them.

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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 06:53 PM (EST)
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63. "All I know is"
I'm glad the discussions are getting deeper again and that more people are posting here!

Yay Lost is back. Booo! Only 2 more episodes.

Keep it up guys I live reading this stuuff!


A PhoenixMons Creation

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trigirl 2844 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-07, 07:15 AM (EST)
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65. "Ben Not a 'Good One'"
Now that we know Ben has an evil side, it puts the meaning of 'good one' in a different light. I had always interpreted 'good one' as good person....now I think it means good specimen. What is it they want?

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