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"The killer - what we think we saw"
TeamJoisey 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-05, 02:48 PM (EST)
 
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"The killer - what we think we saw" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-10-05 AT 06:32 PM (EST)I'll leave this here for the debate, but I think I disproved my own theory. See below... LAST EDITED ON 11-10-05 AT 03:04 PM (EST) It looked pretty simple. "Establishing shots" of high grass indicate two groups in the same area. Shannon running in the woods. Tailies walking in the woods. A gun shot. A wounded Shannon. Ana Lucia holding a gun. Ergo, Ana Lucia shot and killed Shannon. Not so fast. Mr. Eko told Ana Lucia that the tailies were a day's walk away from the fuselage folks. We never saw the two groups in the same frame. We only know that we heard a gunshot, and Ana Lucia fired her weapon (the slide is pulled back, as it would be on a weapon whose last round has been fired). Back to Shannon. When Sayid catches up to her, she collapses in his arms, and he brings her to the ground. He then looks up at the killer or killers. And we only see one person, from the waist down. We are supposed to believe that person is Ana Lucia. But we don't even know for sure that Shannon's got a gunshot wound. That's an awful lot of blood. Perhaps she's been stabbed. But suppose...
The two groups are still 20 miles apart. After all, there's plenty of high grass on the island. Was Ana Lucia firing at something else? An apparition? Desmond? Danielle? A polar bear? Quite possibly Ana Lucia has just shot and killed Cindy, the suddenly missing tail section survivor who may have been trying to silently rejoin the group. The look on Ana Lucia's face indicates that she is surprised by what she has just done. She would not recognize Shannon. She would recognize Cindy, and would be surprised if she'd just shot one of her "teammates." Add this: Unlike the surreptitious Others, Shannon is crashing through the woods loudly shouting out Walt's name. She is being followed by Sayid, who loudly shouts out Shannon's name. Yet neither Michael nor Jin hear them and respond. Certainly Michael would respond if he heard Walt's name. And during the last shots, when Sayid is cradling the body and staring at the killer or killers, there is no look of recognition for those fellow survivors who are presumed lost at sea. But he does seem ready to confront the killer. Conversely, in the tailies shot, there is no reaction other than stunned silence from Michael and Jin. Might they have reacted differently if they recognized Shannon and Sayid? So despite my earlier theory that Ana Lucia was going to be the killer, I'm now proposing that Ana Lucia shot at something, and it wasn't Shannon. Someone else killed Shannon. We will learn the killer's identity in a later episode.
 
OK, perhaps I'm insane.
Shannon's wound doesn't look like a gunshot entry wound, it looks like a stab wound. But an actual gunshot entry wound wouldn't be as colorful.
Ana Lucia earlier in the episode:
The killer:
 Note the long club tied with twine is in both frames.
So yeah, I'm insane. Nothing to see here... move along. Go back to your lives.
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J I M B O 6839 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-05, 04:08 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: The killer - what we think we saw" |
The only thing that struck me as odd was how he ran off in the direction that ultimately got her killed. If he really wanted to help them stay hidden...why move? I don't know that he's entirely in control of the projection (maybe supporting the theory it is the dog?). I mean why can't he talk right? If he isn't in the area, how can he know things around them? Maybe he just as visions of some sort and trys to relay them??? (like his vision of the hatch and saying not to open it.)
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CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-05, 09:20 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: The killer - what we think we saw" |
I actually do think that Walt may have gone bad and here's why.First, if he can project himself, why to Shannon -- someone seen as a flake and unbelievable and not someone Walt had any real connection with? Now, I am not sure WHY he chose to lead Shannon to her death, but I really think he did. If the spoiler about the person may be a monster -- well, I think it fits more with Walt and his powers, than with Ana. Ana is just paranoid & trigger happy from the others decimating their camp after the crash. Not a monster, just a bit psycho. If Walt was good & had something important to say to help everyone, why wouldn't he appear to LOCKE? Out of ALL the survivors, Locke is the one who would BELIEVE WHAT HE SAW and do something about it. Walt & Locke had the most interaction & Locke is the one who was trying to help Walt with his powers. I think all the earlier eps with Locke trying to take Walt under his wing, the good v bad, the black v white (backgammon) were Locke trying to lead Walt & his powers to do good. It makes sense that Walt COULD be a monster, with those powers of his, now that he is with the others. He comes from a dysfunctional background, his mother died, the only father he really knew deserts him, by handing him over to a father he never knew. This kid is SCREWED up and could go either way. I think he is now going to the "dark side." So, in sum, I really do think Ana shot Shannon and it was because of Walt. Now, I just need to know what is the others' reasons for what they are doing. Oh, and lastly, re the tailies and some people only talking about the children being taken. I don't remember anyone saying ONLY children were taken, just that one night 9, next night 7, and so forth. They talk about PEOPLE taken, obviously including children. Plus we saw the dead guy Mr. Eko, Jin stumbled on -- the question is, why are they taking anybody and why are some killed and others not? Children can be groomed (especially if they have some kind of powers) so that is a reason to keep them alive. I can't wait to see if they killed all other adults or if some are kept & where and why. My LOST obsession continues . . .
A PhoenixMons Production
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Das Mole 2364 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-05, 04:37 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: The killer - what we think we saw" |
Your theory is definitely a believable one, for me at least, b/c now that you mention it I don't remember seeing them all in one shot together. It would definitely be a shocker if you're right! **KINDA-SPOILER** I remember one spoiler said (highlight to read) "the killer is another female who just might be a monster", which makes you kinda think perhaps it wasn't Ana-Lucia, and maybe somebody like Rousseau instead, or even Kate or something? Then again, if Ana-Lucia did indeed shoot Shannon, maybe Ana and Sayid recognized each other from on the plane or even earlier on in life, b/c as we all know, many characters have crossed paths with one another...and the reason neither Jin nor Michael say anything is because of the fact that they are in absolute shock that Sayid is there along with the now-dead Shannon. I dunno...the possibilites are endless! 
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-05, 05:07 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: The killer - what we think we saw" |
Here is the description of the next episode where we see the original group again:11/07 - Tempers flare when Ana Lucia and her group stumble upon Sayid and the other castaways. Guest starring are Francois Chau as Dr. Marvin Candle, L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Sam Anderson as Bernard, Michael Cudlitz as Big Mike, Mark Gilbert as Detective Raggs, Rick Overton as Matthew Reed, Aaron Gold as Jason Elder, Matt Moore as Travis, Jeanna Garcia as Shawna and Rand Wilson as Assistant D.A. Source: ABC Perhaps this is just an attempt at misdirection, but it would certainly seem to continue right from the point where we left off last night. And it doesn't seem to me to be out of the ordinary that we didn't see a reaction from Jin and Michael - they didn't enter the scene until Shannon had already been shot. We just got a glimpse of them, not long enough to get a reaction shot. 
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J I M B O 6839 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-05, 06:59 PM (EST)
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13. "Forgery?" |
Looking at the video clip on that site, I think it is altered. If you watch the lighting on the hand/fist, it doesnt seem to turn much at all
yet the barrel of the purported rifle swings a good bit. Also, because of the closeup, it looks as if you can see something between the arm and the hipvery similar to the staff that other clips show Ana had slung over her shoulder.
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TeamJoisey 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-05, 11:02 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Lefty/Righty?" |
She is right handed. The object in her left hand is not the gun. I'm not certain what it is, because the "knife" theory certainly has a few frames that look like evidence. But the other frames make it appear that whatever is in her hand is flexible, such as a fabric of some sort. And yeah Corvis, I'm overthinking.
It turned out just as predicted.
I just didn't think it would be that easy. Now about that Grassy Knoll...
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Das Mole 2364 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-05, 09:50 AM (EST)
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17. "L/R and the Knife theory" |
I thought of this left-handed/right-handed thing as well...I dunno. I'm pretty sure the killer was Ana-Lucia, only they go about it in such a way that raises doubt when you think about it (obviously, look at this whole thread).As for the knife thing, I don't think it was a knife nor a sword...there are three problems with this: 1) Shannon would've more than likely fallen straight down on the ground and died immediately after she was stabbed, rather than turning around and stumbling into Sayid's arms. 2) If that's the case, then why is the killer standing so far away from them? Shannon wouldn't have walked into the bushes, gotten stabbed, then turned around while the killer decided to take 20 steps backwards...?? 3) If it was a stabbing, I seriously doubt the producers would've tried to throw us off so much as to put a gunshot sound in there...I dunno. I don't think it was a stabbing at all. And if it was indeed a stabbing wound, it definitely wouldn't have been from a sword. It was one single entry wound, not a cut or laceration, and if it was a sword, I'm sure it would've gone all the way through, and there was no blood on Shannon's back. Conclusion: She was shot. By who? I'd say it was Ana-Lucia. It's already shocking enough that the two groups came across each other (if you want to call Sayid and Shannon a "group"), let alone the fact that one of them gets shot by someone from another group. I guess we'll see...if you go to the ABC website and look at the Lost site, there's a list of all the characters and the main things they've done before the crash and on the island...if Ana-Lucia's gets updated to say "Accidentally shoots Shannon" or something like that, then I guess we'll know for sure.
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ladro 1168 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-05, 01:17 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: The killer - what we think we saw" |
you did a good job exposing some of the flaws in the storyline. But I think they are just that, flaws. If Rambi didn't shoot Shannon, I and a lot of other people, will feel cheated and tricked, in a bad way. So I vote that Rambi shoot Shannon just like it is implied by the editing.
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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-05, 09:26 PM (EST)
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18. "Regarding spoilers*some minor spoilers*" |
I unfortunatly have been following spoilers the past 3 weeks so this death was no suprise like it wasn't for everyone else. In the spoilers I could have sworn it had been revealed that we would NOT know who the killer is until the episode AFTER the tailaways have their flashback episode. In other words...2 weeks from now. Also it had been rumoured that Locke would originally be accused of the killing(but that could be a false spoiler)I was very suprised when they implied that Ana Lucia had shot Shannon. The first thing I thought was that AL had shot Cindy or someone else. Furthermore I have heard that the "Who shot Shannon" episode would rival the "Who shot JR?" finale. While it was a good episode, revealing that AL had done the deed just does not fit with what the creators have tried to build. They are know for their "shock" and would love to pull off another "Locke can walk!" moment. I am in the camp of Kate being the killer now. First, I believe the episode where the killer is revealed is a Kate one. Having her as the killer creates all sorts of conflict and storyline issues with Jack, Sawyer, Sayid and Locke etc. Might even make her character more interesting, AL more likeable. Of course I could be eating my words in two weeks  
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-05, 01:29 PM (EST)
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21. "My 2 cents" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-05 AT 01:39 PM (EST)I believe the following things are true: Sayid saw Walt He actually saw him first, and his reaction was like he had just seen a ghost. Then Shannon turns to see what he's looking at and asks does he see Walt. Sayid can only nod. Then Shannon runs off. Sayid lags behind, as he's still stunned by what he's seen. By the time he snaps out of his daze, Shannon's running off looking for Walt. In my mind, Sayid absolutely saw Walt. Ana Lucia fired her gun, and Sayid heard that gunshot We know she had one more round in the gun. After the shot, the gun appears to be emptied when the camera pans back to Ana Lucia. Sayid definitely heard the shot, as he reacts in real time to it, as one would if their loved one had run off and a gun had been fired in her general direction. "They" don't use guns. Have we seen "them" use guns yet? Their method is much stealthier. They tend to capture and only kill those who try to stop them from capturing. Therefore, I don't think there were 2 gunshots, but rather that Sayid and Ana Lucia's group had to be in close proximity to each other and not miles apart, concluding that if Shannon was shot, it was by Ana Lucia. When Sayid looks up, it's Ana Lucia and her party that he sees, and likewise it's Sayid and Shannon that they see I don't see anything contradictory in the stills, gifs, and other images that have been produced since Wednesday to change my mind on that. To my (admittedly flawed) eye it looks like Ana Lucia's back, and, despite much attempt to sway to the contrary, I don't see a knife, sword, or any other stabbing device in the person's (read: Ana Lucia's) hand. The motions also seem to sync up with someone who has just fired a gun. I won't get into every nuance, but let's just say that in watching it over and over (approx. 20 times), it seems to me that Ana Lucia is the one Sayid is looking up at. Also, in seeing the look of horror on the faces of Michael and Jin, if they're not looking at Sayid holding Shannon's lifeless body, then they're looking at something equally terrible. They seem absolutely stunned by what they're witnessing. At this point, I don't know if Sayid has seen M & J, as he seems fixated on AL (or whoever that is), with his eyes unmoving. M & J came into the frame late, so I'm betting he hasn't seen them...yet. All that said, what I'm unsure of is whether the shot from AL's gun is what killed Shannon. As of now, that's what I believe, but I'm not 100% on it. The other possibility that seems most likely to me (aside from what we've been led to believe) is that Shannon was stabbed by someone off screen while AL was firing at someone else (probably the person who stabbed Shannon). What we know about the "Collision" episode in 2 weeks is that there is a confrontation between Sayid and AL's party, but we don't know how that turns out. There are screen captures from that episode of Michael with Vincent and Jack with Mr. Eko. It seems that the groups (or at least factions of each) are comingling in that episode. We probably also get Rose/Bernard and Jin/Sun reunions, as well. But what happens to Sayid and Ana Lucia? And where's Locke in all this? I've heard some nasty rumors about him, but I'm not ready to drink the Kool-Aid just yet on that one. Very interesting.  Fester
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-05, 10:29 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: My 2 cents" |
Sorry to be unclear, but I wasn't theorizing that Ana Lucia shot Shannon's hypothetical knife-killer, only that she shat at Shannon's hypothetical knife-killer. I suppose it's also possible she shot at this unseen third party, only to hit Shannon. The point, really, was that I don't believe that there were 2 gunshots.And yes, you're right, the Others shot Sawyer (or some Others shot Sawyer--I'm beginning to wonder how many independent or very loosely affiliated factions there are on this island (Rousseau, Desmonde and the Dharma crew, the 'hide-in-the-jungle' Others, the 'boat-people' Others, perhaps a couple of Nigerian drug smugglers, maybe some Black Rock descendents, the "tailies", the guy Boone spoke to on the radio, etc., etc.), but I digress...), but again, it was because he was trying to stop them from capturing Walt. Fester
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Farmie 71 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-05, 07:55 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: My 2 cents" |
I suppose it's also possible she shot at this unseen third party, only to hit Shannon. I'm not good at analyzing like most of you but this is the same thought I've been having. AL shot at an unknown third party only to hit Shannon. Could this unknown third party have been Walt? I know, I know...Michael would have seen him but Walt quickly appears and disappears. Walt appears, AL shoots, Walt disappears, and Shannon is shot...poof. This means Michael has possibly seen Walt now. I dunno...this show is driving me crazy. 
Yummy...peanut butter and PhoenixMons
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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I don't see what possible motive she would've had...maybe self-defense just like Ana-Lucia?