Email this topic to a friend Printer-friendly version of this topic Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)		Previous Topic | Next Topic
Conferences The Apprentice General Discussion Forum (Protected)
Original message

topfuel600 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 01-18-08, 01:40 AM (EST) "GENE SIMMONS FIRING" LARGE MISTAKE ON ALL PARTYS INVOLVED THE ONLY REASON THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE HAD TO WATCH THE TRUMP FEST WAS THE DELIGHT THAT GENE BROUGHT SOMETHING TO THE TABLE, NOW WITH GENE GONE THERE IS NO REASON TO WATCH THE SHOW FOR OUR GROUP ANYMORE. ADVERTISERS STAY WITH GENE FOR A WIN. YOUR WASTING YOUR MONEY NOW WITH THIS PROGRAM CHUCK   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING newsomewayne 01-18-08 1    The other option. Estee 01-18-08 2  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING geg6 01-18-08 3    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING mistyrose52 01-18-08 4        RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING geg6 01-18-08 6            RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING sharnina 01-18-08 12  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING kingfish 01-18-08 5  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING aquariaqueen 01-18-08 7  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING NewFan 01-18-08 8    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING Snidget 01-18-08 10    Historical notation. Estee 01-18-08 11        RE: Historical notation. geg6 01-18-08 13  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING shaneperry 01-18-08 9    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING prosecutor 01-18-08 14  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING Loree 01-20-08 15    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING kingfish 01-20-08 17        RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING Sunny_Bunny 01-20-08 19            RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING kingfish 01-22-08 20    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING MollyTV 01-24-08 22  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING suzzee 01-20-08 16    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING jbug 01-20-08 18        RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING Wacko Jacko 01-23-08 21  RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING foonermints 01-24-08 23    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING Wacko Jacko 01-28-08 24        Gene foonermints 01-28-08 25    RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING agman 01-28-08 26

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 08:24 AM (EST) 1. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I'm replying here only because it seems to be the first thread talking about this. Of the three left in the board room, Gene Simmons was the only person Trump could fire based on game precedent and what happened during the task. I'm also certain that Gene knew that when he chose Osamarosa and Blond Chick to come back in with him. Rather than say he was wrong, he chose to take whatever consequences came from him holding to his conviction he was right. An admirable quality, IMO. I don't fault Trump on this. He really had no choice. It's party time! Agman is excellent! 2008   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 09:03 AM (EST) 2. "The other option." Donald did have an alternate choice, and it's one he's used in prior seasons: override. There have been times when he's basically told the PM of the moment 'I see you shielding people' or 'There is someone I want to fire and you're not going to keep me from it', then thrown out their bring-back decision and hauled whoever he wanted into the Boardroom. If Donald had really wanted to, he could have hauled Nely in and fired her -- but with what Gene was doing and saying despite all warning signs (which at one point got up to the level of a Academy Awards musical number), he may have decided that a born contrarian, no matter how business-adept he might be, wasn't the best possibility for making sponsors happy long-term. At some point, Gene was really going to offend someone: best to cut him out before that moment was reached. I'm not sure Gene brought Voldy and Jennie back with the intent of getting himself fired. He may have really thought that Donald would find a way to keep him outright, banking on their friendship to see him through. He seems to have exactly that much ego (plus about two hundred percent). But...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 09:16 AM (EST) 3. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" Hell, I watched for the first time last night because I'd heard a rumor that asshole was going to get fired. Now I may actually watch a few more episodes. "A single zealot may commence persecutor, and better men be his victims."-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mistyrose52 795 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 01-18-08, 09:24 AM (EST) 4. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I don't agree with this post at all. Gene got exactly what he deserved. He's not the only man OR woman on this show with a brain, as he'd have everyone to believe. I don't even think he's all that charismatic. Personally, he makes me nauseated! I was more than happy to see his ego-laden, washed-out hair, and plastic face GONE! Now we can see some real competition without having to deal with his antics constantly!! As always, it's a free country, and there are hundreds of cable channels as well as a few local to choose from. As for me, I'll continue watching until I find something else to amuse me, and as long as the time frame for Survivor doesn't interfere, when it comes back on. The Donald had no other choice-Gene wanted to 'check mate' him, and I applaud Trump for booting him out on his ugly butt!!!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 11:54 AM (EST) 6. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" *tilts head* Ummmmm, I think that's pretty much what I was saying. "A single zealot may commence persecutor, and better men be his victims."-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

sharnina 3075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 01-18-08, 04:03 PM (EST) 12. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I think Misty was replying to the original post.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 09:53 AM (EST) 5. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" Hey Gene! (or Chuck if you prefer) Your ego revealing Caps are a tell.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

aquariaqueen 2616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 01-18-08, 12:54 PM (EST) 7. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" Sad to see him go....it's going to be boring now.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

NewFan 139 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-18-08, 02:52 PM (EST) 8. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" He was definitely entertaining, but I DO think he must have wanted out. He did his time, maybe got bored, and knew that he would be fired with the 2 people he brought back with him into the BR. Personally I think it's good riddance. The editing was obviously focusing on him because he's controversial, which makes for good TV. Now we can start to focus on some others. There are a few people there that haven't had any airtime whatsoever. Go Stephen Baldwin!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 03:10 PM (EST) 10. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I kinda think he knows he got some money as the project manager for his charity so he was ready to call it a done deal and get out. He clearly wasn't going to play this game by the rules as set up, so might as well get out early having done some good. Agman's like a brother, Your best friend forever, Making the sigs, the sigs that you like.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 03:19 PM (EST) 11. "Historical notation." Go Stephen Baldwin! This marks the first time that sentence was ever displayed on a reality show discussion site.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-18-08, 05:01 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Historical notation." And undoubtedly the last. "A single zealot may commence persecutor, and better men be his victims."-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

shaneperry 45 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 01-18-08, 02:58 PM (EST) 9. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" i had heard of Gene Simmons before but never paid any attention to him, thought he was just some silly rocker. But after seeing him on this show i think he his fantastic, so much class ,insight an dignity and a true showman. What a standup guy. Now im a big fan, he will be missed.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

prosecutor 449 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 01-18-08, 09:38 PM (EST) 14. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" what I would like to know is , why was he made project manager. He was the winning PM on the task the week before. He even got the check for his charity before being sent to join the women. yes send to join the women but a woman should have been PM.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-20-08, 01:05 PM (EST) 15. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I believe Gene wanted out. And he wanted to do it on his terms and take the decision away from Donald. He could tell Donald was pleading with him not to do it this way. I think Gene got a kick out of screwing up Donald's plans.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-20-08, 05:10 PM (EST) 17. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" The guy I saw was a self deluded egotistical idiot who (I suspect) is used to being surrounded by entourage of yes men/people. His one talent (that I could detect) was an aptitude for conning people. Just about every statement he made was demonstrably wrong.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sunny_Bunny 5581 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-20-08, 08:12 PM (EST) 19. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" Yes every statement he made was wrong. Yes, he was an egotistical idiot, which was why he was cast. On this I totally agree with you. But I have to agree with the people who think he just tossed himself onto the sword so he could go home. I think he was bored with the whole thing, and just wanted out.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-22-08, 01:52 PM (EST) 20. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" LAST EDITED ON 01-22-08 AT 10:56 PM (EST) Yeah. It did look as if he was bored and ready to go. It doesn't fit with my idea of his DAW level to pass on additional air time, but it did appear that he could have been volunteering for the firing. He had that attitude. His choices for company at the final board meeting with the Hair could also be explained another way, though. He might have thought that between he and Omorosa, that she was so hated and criticized last week, that the hair might just be looking for an excuse to fire her. And and between he and Blond Chick, that she was such a non-entity, especially in comparison to him, that the Hair couldn't possibly chose her over him. This would be Gene Simmons logic, in which his ego is the deciding factor. Normal logic, and a whit of perception (which would mean that he would have actually listened to something other than his own prattling) would have persuaded him to pick Nely to be sitting beside him. And anyone else.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

MollyTV 480 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 01-24-08, 08:38 AM (EST) 22. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" i agree with you... this is no different than other reality stars using the "quit boat".... this way gene can say....he didn't want to fire me, i did a good job, he told me...but they HAD to fire me. instead of bruising his ego by trump actually firing him for deserving it. its all same same same. moly.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

suzzee 4956 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 01-20-08, 05:07 PM (EST) 16. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" hi everyone, I've been a long time lurker and finally got enough nerve up to speak. Be gentle with me. It sure seemed that he was doing everything to get fired this time. I don't know how good of friends the Donald and he are but knowing that Gene is a pretty sharp guy I can see him signing on the show to help boost interest but only hanging around for a few weeks. He's got a lot of other irons in the fire, if you will, and the commitment to Apprentice would be time consuming. I don't get the impression he ever intended to hang on to the bitter end, he made his point that he's a business/promoter hot shot (or legend in his own mind)and is moving on. Regardless, he was entertaining, what an ego! Anyone watch his Family Jewels reality show? Oddly enough I watched it from time to time and it's not too bad. His kids aren't insane and he's just a dad and significant other to his long time partner Shannon Tweed. At least that's my take on it. suzzee   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

jbug 16685 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-20-08, 07:09 PM (EST) 18. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" Hi and welcome again Suzzee. Jump on in. We've been waiting for you...... ~~just kidding~~~~ Agman 'Getting older softens you into learning that love, kindness, and forgiveness are far more important than one's opinion.' Sagebrush Dan   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 01-23-08, 05:09 PM (EST) 21. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" My opinion is this, Gene felt the team would be best off if Omarosa was fired. Trump kept saying “but she did nothing wrong”. That aint the point did she do anything right? What did she bring to the table other than chaos? I bet gene thought in his head he was the best and their was no way Donald could fire him….certainly not for Omarosa who was a mess anyways. Need I say Gene is very egotisical. He probably thought…”Come on, Donald will not fire me over Omarosa”. That is why he took just Omarosa. Gene felt that the team would be better for it. Gene thought Nely or Omarosa…sure I can bring in Nely and she will be fired but our team will be worse off. His ego thought Donald would never get rid of him and his ego was wrong. Donald had in the past fired people for poor track records..this time Gene was banking on it.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-24-08, 03:53 PM (EST) 23. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I'M REALLY GLAD GENE IS GONE. HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ON THE SHOW IN THE FIRST PLACE. IT'S A LOT BETTER NOW WITH HIM KILLING HIMSELF OFF THE SHOW.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 01-28-08, 12:02 PM (EST) 24. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" LAST EDITED ON 01-28-08 AT 04:52 PM (EST) I am one who feels the show will suffer without him. First off, he is one of only a few on the show who is actually a celebrity. Sure he is arrogant, but he has character and he has a good business sense. Gene took charge of all three tasks he worked on and all others would agree he knew what he was talking about for the most part. Another reason look what is happening…we see only maybe 5 of these people even belong on this show. Tiffany, Nadia, Jenny….all had no idea how to do anything in the business world. Look around…you will see others behaving the same way..Lennox, Trace, etc….even Vincent he looked like he saw a ghost when he was named project manager…..”OH NO I AM GOING TO GET EXPOSED!”. Then there are those like Carol who are only still there because she is fighting to be there…..she knows nothing also. The show needed Gene. Trump should’ve fired Omarosa or Jenny. Either could’ve been fired first. What did Trump mean he could not fire either? Omarosa was bad for team Chemstry. And Jenny……. This brings me to Jenny. Trump said he could not fire Jenny last week because she did nothing wrong and then the following week…….he fired her and she did nothing wrong! The reason to fire her was because she not only did nothing wrong….she did nothing! Jenny had no reason to be on the show. She was not a real celebrity and she had no business sense. Brings me to these ‘celebrities’……I would not of minded so much if Jenny was a non-celeb if she had some business skills…but she didn’t even have that. This cast is looking worse than I initially thought. This week The Apprentice goes head to head against Lost. Good luck.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

foonermints 12302 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-28-08, 06:00 PM (EST) 25. "Gene" Well, I've got to agree with you, Whackie. It would be better to get the boring ones out first. The following faux bloodbath would be more entertaining. Moves by CrabMan   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

agman 11158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-28-08, 10:34 PM (EST) 26. "RE: GENE SIMMONS FIRING" I knows it fooner old gal but ya don't gotta holler at me! I still gots good hearin'   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Select another forum Lobby The Amazing Race Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Amazing Race Fanatics Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected) American Idol Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--American Idol Individual Contestant and Judge Discussion Forum (Protected) The Apprentice Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Apprentice General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--The Apprentice Spoilers/Speculation Forum (Protected)   |--The Apprentice: Martha Stewart General Discussion Forum (Protected) Big Brother Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Big Brother Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Bashers Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Live Feed Updates And Spoilers (Protected) The Mole Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Mole General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--The Mole Clues & Spoilers Forum (Protected) Survivor Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Games Forum (Protected)   |--Spoiler Island Fantasy Game Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor 6 Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor 8 Spoilers Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Book Forum (Protected)   |--SurvivorMarket Forum (Public) Other Reality TV Shows (Conference)   |--America's Got Talent Forum (Protected)   |--America's Next Top Model Forum (Protected)   |--The Bachelor / The Bachelorette Forum (Protected)   |--The Biggest Loser Forum (Protected)   |--Dancing with the Stars Forum (Protected)   |--Flavor of Love / I Love New York Forum (Protected)   |--I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here! Forum (Protected)   |--Jon & Kate Plus 8 Forum (Protected)   |--Hell's Kitchen Forum (Protected)   |--HGTV Design Star Forum (Protected)   |--Laguna Beach / The Hills Forum (Protected)   |--Project Runway Forum (Protected)   |--The Real Housewives Forum (Protected)   |--The Real World / Road Rules Forum (Protected)   |--So You Think You Can Dance Forum (Protected)   |--Top Chef Forum (Protected)   |--Trading Spouses / Wife Swap Forum (Protected)   |--Other Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected) Non-Reality TV Shows Forums (Conference)   |--24 Forum (Protected)   |--Desperate Housewives Forum (Protected)   |--Grey's Anatomy Forum (Protected)   |--Heroes Forum (Protected)   |--Lost Forum (Protected)   |--Other Non-Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected)   |--Non-Reality Daytime Soap Shows Forum (Protected) Off Topic (Conference)   |--Temporary Off Topic Forum (Protected)   |--The Help Forum (Protected)   |--Off-Topic Forum (Protected)   |--Off-Topic Sports Forum (Protected)   |--Story Competitions Forum (Protected) Other Inactive Reality TV Shows (Conference)   |--Age Of Love Forum (Protected)   |--Average Joe Forum (Protected)   |--Beauty and the Geek Forum (Protected)   |--Beg, Borrow, & Deal (Protected)   |--The Benefactor Forum (Protected)   |--Boy Meets Boy Forum (Protected)   |--The Casino Forum (Protected)   |--The Contender Forum (Protected)   |--Cupid Forum (Protected)   |--Fame Forum (Protected)   |--For Love Or Money Forum (Protected)   |--Joe Millionaire Forum (Protected)   |--Grease: You're the One That I Want Forum (Protected)   |--Kid Nation Forum (Protected)   |--Last Comic Standing Forum (Protected)   |--Mad Mad House Forum (Protected)   |--My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance Forum (Protected)   |--Nashville Star Forum (Protected)   |--Next Action Star Forum (Protected)   |--On The Lot Forum (Protected)   |--Outback Jack Forum (Protected)   |--Paradise Hotel Forum (Protected)   |--Pirate Master Forum (Protected)   |--Playing It Straight Forum (Protected)   |--The Rebel Billionaire Forum (Protected)   |--Rock Star (Protected)   |--Skating With Celebrities Forum (Protected)   |--The Simple Life (Protected)   |--Superstars of Dance Forum (Protected)   |--The Surreal Life Forum (Protected)   |--Treasure Hunters Forum (Protected)   |--Wickedly Perfect Forum (Protected)   |--Joe Schmo Forum (Protected)   |--Todd TV Forum (Protected)   |--The Real Gilligan's Island (Protected)   |--Forever Eden Forum (Protected) Starting Over Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Starting Over General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--Starting Over Individual Houseguest Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--Starting Over Spoilers Forum (Protected) TemptationIslandSucks.com Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Temptation Island Everything (Protected) TheOsbournesSucks.com Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Osbournes Everything Forum (Protected) BootCampBites.com Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Boot Camp Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected)   |--Boot Camp Rant/Rave Forum (Protected) LoveCruiseSinks.com Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Love Cruise Everything (Protected) Push-Nevada.net.com Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Push, Nevada General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--Push, Nevada Clue & Hint Forum (Protected) Inactive Forums (Conference)   |--BlowsVivor Forum (Protected)   |--2002 RealityTVWorld Blowie Award Nomination Forum (Protected)   |--September Eleven Forum (Protected)   |--Cornertime Forum (Public)   |--OLD The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor II: The Australian Outback Forum (Protected) TEMPORARY FORUMS (Conference)   |--Temporary The Amazing Race Fanatics Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary The Amazing Race Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary America's Next Top Model Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary American Idol Individual Contestant and Judge Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary The Bachelor / The Bachelorette Forum (Public)   |--Temporary The Biggest Loser Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Laguna Beach / The Hills Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Other Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Non-Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Survivor Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Dancing with the Stars Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Top Chef Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)   |--Temporary Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)