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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight"
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Zee 3 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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12-20-05, 00:03 AM (EST)
 
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3. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Of course Trump is going to try to put a positive spin on what his new apprentice did. But Randal's decision, was not a business decision, it was a self-serving decision. A business decision, would have been one based on whether or not Rebecca was qualified enough. Randal's decision was based on his need to be the sole recipient of a mere title. Rebecca saying that she would have hired Randal; because when you have talent standing in front of you, you snatch it up before the competition gets a hold of that talent; is making a business decision.
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namedujour 8 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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12-20-05, 07:05 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
>transcript of the interview can be
>found here
>
>http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/19/lkl.01.html I didn't think Randal added much to his justification for making that decision. It sounded to me like rationalization. As most of us suspected, Randal's decision took Trump totally by surprise. The question about "race" came up, and Trump dodged it (I didn't think he dodged it particularly well, but really, he may have been insulted and giving a knee-jerk response). But the question of "gender" did NOT come up. I've personally wondered if gender had more to do with his decision, and I think the point is equally relevant. Historically, he's always chosen the man until Kendra. And the men that season were all admittedly bozos. But what King said was absolutely correct: This was the best thing that could have happened for Rebecca. The offers are pouring in.
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DooWahDitty 1615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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12-20-05, 12:40 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
thanks for the link, colormepink, and welcome to the boards. Resourceful newbies are particularly welcome!
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namedujour 8 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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12-20-05, 06:30 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
>Any businessman who does not make
>business decisions based on how
>well it will serve him
>is a candidate for bankruptcy. Does it serve you well to hand qualified candidates over to other companies? I doubt it. Furthermore, had Randal said it was okay to hire Rebecca, he would have had her loyalty. Whether or not they're "friends" I'm sure Rebecca's feelings toward Randal would have been a lot warmer, and her loyalty toward him a whole lot more emphatic, had Randal not made the self-serving decision. You can always use loyal supporters. Don't think there's always another Loyal Supporter coming, or that you're entitled to people's loyalty no matter what you do to advance yourself. If people watch you make self-serving decisions at other peoples' expense, as Randal did, they'll back away from you and work against you under the "how well will it serve ME" rule. And sometimes they'll take gloating satisfaction in trying to take you down to get even. You walk a slippery slope when you serve yourself without regard for the people around you. In Randal's case, it was a short-sighted decision.
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-20-05, 09:29 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
"In Randal's case, it was a short-sighted decision."I remain unconvinced by this position because The Donald's hiring question was a publicity stunt, and because Rebecca's performance was not remotely co-equal with Randal's. There is nothing short-sighted about advising The Donald not to hire a mediocre performer. I also remain unconvinced by the original argument, because The Donald did not consider offering Kwame the same kind of special treatment after he hired Boyfriend Bill. He did not consider offering JenM the same kind of special treatment after he hired Robot Kelley. He did not consider offering Tana the same kind of special treatment after he hired Kendra. All of the unhired candidates in this cohort of players would have done well in his organisation, yet he did not seek advice from a new apprentice to hire them. Given that pattern, it was a nonsensical publicity stunt to change approaches at the end of the finale. And publicity stunts are not necessarily sound business decisions. --Singer
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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12-20-05, 09:52 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Does it serve you well to hand qualified candidates over to other companies?Trump still could have one of his companies hire her. The losers of this competition were not automatically turned over to some other corporation. Trump merely asked Randal's opinion. Randal had not been hired to run Human Resources for Trump. It was Trump's decision not to hire Rebecca, based partially on the reponse of a brand new employee. Put the blame where it lies. Furthermore, had Randal said it was okay to hire Rebecca, he would have had her loyalty. Who gives a crap? They were not going to be working together, so any potential "loyalty" would have meant zilch. Maybe you didn't understand that they weren't going to be working together. Or perhaps you assumed that the winners of these contests climb a different corporate ladder and meet in a golden board room that Trump's regular professional employees never see. You walk a slippery slope when you serve yourself without regard for the people around you. Trump asked Randal if he should hire Rebecca. Randal said that he didn't think Rebecca would make a good manager. Randal was forming an opinion about someone's ability and whether or not they would be a good fit for Trump's organization. He was not just going off of "I won and I don't want to share". As I said in the summary - Randal would have spent weeks from the final taped show (when the charity events happened) to the live final Board Room to think of ways that he was better than Rebecca so that he could make his case for getting hired. It was perfectly natural for Randal to have a low opinion of Rebecca at that moment. Trump should not have asked him to make that decision immediately at the end of the competition. And now, Randal has no choice but to back up what he did by continuing to defend his opinion of Rebecca.
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DooWahDitty 1615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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12-20-05, 04:04 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Let's just say that I don't think they harbor any real ill-will toward each other. And it's very possible that they developed a very nice friendship due to being thrown together for those six weeks. Many others did. Why not them? (Don't answer that!) JK.
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DooWahDitty 1615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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12-20-05, 04:12 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Fair enough and prolly true. By the way, haven't welcomed you yet. So welcome! Hope you stick around.
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DooWahDitty 1615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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12-20-05, 05:02 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
I kind of wonder how I would have felt, had I watched the whole season. I was so disgusted by the most recent season (and the Kelly/Jennifer M. finale) that I vowed not to watch. So I succeeded in that. But as I said elsewhere, I just don't see how Randal was so offensive. Granted, Rebecca probably would have said something different than Randal did, but that doesn't mean Randal is a capital B. At any rate, Trump turned in a stellar performance last nigt on LKL and I dare say he was even believable when he chided Larry for bringing up the race issue. Maybe I'm gullible, but I don't think so in this case.
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Zee 3 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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12-20-05, 06:27 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
It's not so much that he said no, that I have a problem with, it's what he based his decision on that is the problem. I think if he is going to make a self-serving decision, it needs to be based on the on going company and not because he needs to be the sole recipient of a mere TV show title. There are a lot more important things in life, than to worry about having to share a title. In other words, if Randal is trying to eliminate a future competitor in the Trump Organization(this being Rebecca in this case); he could give Trump, his self-serving verdict, that Rebecca underperformed on Apprentice tasks and he feels that she is not quite experienced enough.
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Juni 11 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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12-20-05, 08:12 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Thanks for notifying us about the LK interview and thanks also to the person who included a link for the transcript.Now that it's been almost a week since I watched the live finale, I am not as disappointed in Randal's decision to not hire Rebecca as an Apprentice to Trump. (Personally, if I were Trump, I wouldn't have given Randal so much power in making a business decision, especially since Randal himself has just been hired that very night). Nevertheless, after revisiting Randal's statements (and now reading the transcript of LK), Randal did in fact, leave open the option for Rebecca to join the Trump organization post-show. Randal had emphasized that that night was about hiring *one* apprentice, not multiple apprentices ("apprentii"). I could see how he wanted to distinguish himself as the sole winner of Apprentice IV, the t.v. show. I still believe he made a mistake in declining to offer Rebecca the apprenticeship concurrently with his, but I can understand how he wanted to be named the show's solitary winner. It was still pride and ego on his part, but Randal, as he states in LK, did not close the door on Rebecca entirely from Trump. Regardless, Rebecca is brilliant (and young) and the Apprentice show has provided her with many lucrative options now. I think she will do exceedingly well without joining Randal and Trump. I hope she continues with her financial journalism work and non-profit activities.
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jetpack 18 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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12-21-05, 06:18 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Singer, I agree" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-21-05 AT 06:19 AM (EST)>If Randal had to name a
>co-apprentice, it would not be
>Rebecca. There were far more
>deserving candidates on the show
>than her. Probably true, but for one reason or another they had all been fired already, so that wouldn't have really made sense - of course alot of people think the whole question of hiring her at the end didn't make any sense either  Anyway, she may not have had a stellar record, but many people (including me and DT) think she was great - smart, articulate, personable, even-tempered, loyal, determined, etc. I didn't want her to win, and she didn't, but I certainly wouldn't call her an underachiever. In any case, let's remember that the job is for an *apprentice*, not a CEO. The whole point is to hire someone who has great *potential*, not necessarily a huge record of previous achievements. Of course, in the real world the whole idea of an apprentice is kind of silly nowadays because so few companies actually support any kind of meaningful on-the-job training anymore - but it's a nice idea.
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-21-05, 10:25 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: Singer, I agree" |
I see the show as an analogue for what happens to women and minorities in many American corporate organisations.Given the fact that The Donald has made racist statements about blacks and Jews, and given the fact that he has few, if any, women and minorities in top-level positions in his company, his rules-switch appeared as a ploy to create yet another glass ceiling against a black person. The unstated inference was "Yeah, you're kind of good Randal, but you're kind of lazy like the rest of your kind, and you are not quite as good as a 24-year-old with one degree. You see, it's a genetic thing." The choice situation that The Donald created was completely untendable and offensive, at least by my lights. --Singer
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jetpack 18 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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12-21-05, 03:47 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Singer, I agree" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-21-05 AT 03:50 PM (EST)>Given the fact that The Donald
>has made racist statements about
>blacks and Jews, and given
>the fact that he has
>few, if any, women and
>minorities in top-level positions in
>his company, his rules-switch appeared
>as a ploy to create
>yet another glass ceiling against
>a black person. I was thinking about this. Given the fact that the previous winners were all white, and that he wanted to hire two apprentices for the first time, there was no way he could have avoided accusations of racism regardless of what the race of the winners would have been. See this is how it works: Winner Runner-up How it shows racism
------ --------- -------------------
white.. white.... no blacks = racism
white.. black.... black gets second-place insult = racism
black.. white.... black has to share with white = racism
black.. black.... takes two blacks to equal one white? = racism
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-21-05, 04:06 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Singer, I agree" |
>LAST EDITED ON 12-21-05
>AT 03:50 PM (EST)
>
>>Given the fact that The Donald
>>has made racist statements about
>>blacks and Jews, and given
>>the fact that he has
>>few, if any, women and
>>minorities in top-level positions in
>>his company, his rules-switch appeared
>>as a ploy to create
>>yet another glass ceiling against
>>a black person.
>
>I was thinking about this. Given
>the fact that the previous
>winners were all white, and
>that he wanted to hire
>two apprentices for the first
>time, there was no way
>he could have avoided accusations
>of racism regardless of what
>the race of the winners
>would have been. See
>this is how it works:
>
>
>Winner Runner-up How it shows
>racism
>------ --------- -------------------
>white.. white.... no blacks = racism
>
>white.. black.... black gets second-place insult
>= racism
>black.. white.... black has to share
>with white = racism
>black.. black.... takes two blacks to
>equal one white? = racism
>That is not how it works, because your schema ignores the framework within which The Donald is reasoning. Had Carolyn or George created any of the choice situations you posit, no claims of racism would be made. The reason is that they are not on the record as having made racist comments about blacks and Jews. That is the only salient point here, at least for me. I do not believe for a minute that in a normal rational choice situation, racism has to figure in a managerial decision-making outcome. The best person should always be chosen, regardless of racial background. I do, however, believe that in an ostensibly rational choice situation that involves The Donald, there will be problems, because of his racist statements about blacks and Jews. The Donald is the problem here, not any of the players on The Apprentice, and certainly not Carolyn and George. --Singer
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-22-05, 10:15 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Singer, I agree" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-22-05 AT 10:40 AM (EST)Some people think that The Donald wanted to hire an undeserving Rebecca to avoid a lawsuit from her, because she broke her ankle on the show. They think that he and Mark Burnett scripted the outcome and got rid of better players to ensure that Rebecca would make it to the finals. In other words, Marshawn may have been directed to refuse to give the presentation, Trump's firing of Alla was a ruse, since she was arguably the best player in the entire crowd, Randal was directed to allow a poorly-performing Rebecca be PM in their final task together, etc. In other words, Trump and Burnett wanted to create a story arc to ensure that Rebecca would win. Unfortunately for her, she did not have the vision and basic smarts to raise money in the final task, and Randal beat her numbers-wise when he raised $11,000. The argument goes this way: Race had no bearing on what Trump was doing when he tried to hire an undeserving Rebecca. His desire to avoid a lawsuit did. I am beginning to believe that this is at least a plausible argument. I have definite views on the social issues we have discussed here, but the entire set of developments may have been a damage-control exercise. --Singer
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DooWahDitty 1615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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12-22-05, 11:04 AM (EST)
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41. "TOO BAD" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-22-05 AT 11:11 AM (EST)"The argument goes this way: Race had no bearing on what Trump was doing when he tried to hire an undeserving Rebecca. His desire to avoid a lawsuit did. I am beginning to believe that this is at least a plausible argument. I have definite views on the social issues we have discussed here, but the entire set of developments may have been a damage-control exercise."(emphasis added)
Agreed. Too bad this crucial point will get lost in a long thread that most people unfortunately won't see because: (1)they don't read long threads, (2) they don't read anything not written by themselves and (3) the rush of the holiday season.
(slight edit for clarity)
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ScorpioRising 92 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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12-22-05, 02:19 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: TOO BAD" |
>LAST EDITED ON 12-22-05
>AT 11:11 AM (EST)
>
>"The argument goes this way: Race
>had no bearing on what
>Trump was doing when he
>tried to hire an undeserving
>Rebecca. His desire to avoid
>a lawsuit did.
>
>I am beginning to believe that
>this is at least a
>plausible argument. I have definite
>views on the social issues
>we have discussed here, but
>the entire set of developments
>may have been a damage-control
>exercise."(emphasis added)
>
>
>Agreed. Too bad this crucial point
>will get lost in a
>long thread that most people
>unfortunately won't see because: (1)they
>don't read long threads, (2)
>they don't read anything not
>written by themselves and
>(3) the rush of the
>holiday season.
>
>(slight edit for clarity)
Singer and DooWah,
I considered that possibility much earlier but here’s where it became a little sticky for me. During the first season, while at one of DT’s construction sites, a piece of concrete fell on Omorosa’s head resulting in a mild concussion. None of the candidates were wearing hard hats at the time, and I thought that was rather unwise on the part of the show’s producers. During future shows, I noticed that when visiting DT’s construction sites, the candidates were always wearing hard hats. I also wondered if after the incident with Omorosa, candidates were asked to sign a wavier of liability to participate in the show (similar to what I assume contestants in shows like (Mark Burnett’s) Survivor and Fear Factor would sign. Question, could Rebecca have filed a lawsuit if she broke her ankle while ice skating on a property not owned by DT? If so, on what grounds?
Please let me know.
Thanks!
SR
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-22-05, 02:29 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: TOO BAD" |
I definitely don't know the answer to this, and I continue to embrace my position about The Donald's sick social beliefs.That being said, I'm just considering other options with reference to his motives. His sick social beliefs might make him more willing to approach the damage control issue this way. He may not have done so if the winner had been a candidate of another background. The big issue here, at least for me, is how far The Donald will stoop to get attention for the show. Another issue is how completely scripted the show appears to be. --Singer
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Reality432423 153 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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12-22-05, 05:06 PM (EST)
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46. "Lawsuit" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-22-05 AT 05:06 PM (EST)I don't see how Trump could fix the entire game on Rebecca's Future Lawsuit? I'm sure before signing up for the show you got to sign lots of contracts, I bet Burnett and Trump is very protected from these actions. I"m sure Omorossa would have sued Trump by now if she could. It would extend her 15 minutes and possibly get more money. Trump really liked Rebecca, maybe that's very strange to a lot of you, but he did. I was a huge fan of her also. I was happy when both Randal and Rebecca made final two. It was obvious Randal would win. Rebecca did beat Randal in the final task (in my opinion). Randal really faultered in the last task and humilating Rebecca on national TV was the worst. When Allah and Felica were on Randals side that was not a good sign. Rebecca has the best ethics and maturity I have ever seen. I never saw her bitc*h and moan, even around Allah WOW. She was damn tough when pretty much everyone was ganging up on Toral. She stood her ground. I never saw another Candidate do that. For me that made her Amazing, at least she's better off now. America likes her a lot more now.
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shanana banana 658 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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01-03-06, 01:32 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Ah, yes........the most telling part of the entire King interview??TRUMP: But Randal did something that was very brave. He did something that I believe he knew probably wasn't going to be the most popular decision. I was looking at Rebecca. I was staring right at her very beautiful face. And she was happy as can be when I asked Randal that question because I think Rebecca thought he was going to say yes. And, by the way, so did i. He chose a very tough path. And a lot of people think it was a very, very hard business decision and that's not said in a negative way but in a positive way.
********************************************************
Trump was enamored of Rebecca, was since day one, and, yes, she was good on The Apprentice, but was hardly the better candidate.....he was just hot for her and wanted her in his organization. Any other project manager would have been fired over the Toral incident, but Trump's got the hots for Rebecca and found every way possible to keep her to the end, including trying to sneak in a double apprentice "win." Go Randall, go.
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big brutha 47 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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01-06-06, 01:30 AM (EST)
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50. "RE: The Apprentice on Larry King Live tonight" |
Lawsuits ?Come on people you don't think the contestants don't give up all rights when they sign the thick contracts to be on these shows? LAwsuit please. DT knew Randall was the truth just like Vince Young was the truth during the rosebowl.
Rebecca is a nice girl but nowhere near Randall.
hands down
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