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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 06:37 AM (EST) "Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." According to Phil, the pre-edit version of that little confrontation went on for a full forty-five minutes. Wonder how many other genetic traits Marge managed to compare to deafness during that time span. 'You're exceptionally thin! You have a built-in handicap which the world believes you can never overcome!' Meanwhile, Kisha & Jennifer linked arms, kicked up their heels, and sang 'Pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile, smile, smile!' As the one who had the great bad luck to break down the footage of our last major genre fight (Fear Factor: Bluehair Vs. Host), I took a peek at the frame-by-frame on this one. After extensive review, I can tell you exactly who was really to blame in both of the collisions at the clue box. The casting director. It was so obvious! The couple eating dinner at the mat incited everything!   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... MaryKat 04-20-09 1    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Snidget 04-20-09 2        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... dragonflies 04-20-09 3            RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Snidget 04-20-09 7                RE: Just a minor reminder about las... byoffer 04-20-09 10    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... dajaki 04-20-09 12        We have a winner... PepeLePew13 04-20-09 17  RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Max Headroom 04-20-09 4    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... ARnutz 04-20-09 5    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... catsnotkids 04-20-09 6        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... PepeLePew13 04-20-09 33    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Loree 04-20-09 8        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... qwertypie 04-20-09 9        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... PepeLePew13 04-20-09 18        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... PsychoKitty 04-20-09 28    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Cyndimaus 04-20-09 11        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... samboohoo 04-20-09 13    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... mhdallas 04-20-09 20    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Devious Weasel 04-20-09 21        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Max Headroom 04-20-09 26  Question for Pepe samboohoo 04-20-09 14    RE: Question for Pepe mindy23 04-20-09 15    RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 16        RE: Question for Pepe cahaya 04-20-09 22            RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 23                RE: Question for Pepe cahaya 04-20-09 25                RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-20-09 34                    RE: Question for Pepe Snidget 04-20-09 35                    RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 36                        RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-20-09 38                            RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 39                                RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-20-09 43                                    RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 44                                        RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-20-09 47                                            RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 50                                                RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-20-09 51                                        RE: Question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-21-09 54                                            Bashing the contestants IceCat 04-21-09 58                                                Question for IceCat PepeLePew13 04-21-09 65                                                    RE: Question for IceCat dabo 04-21-09 66                                                        RE: Question for IceCat PepeLePew13 04-21-09 68                                                            No dabo 04-21-09 73                                                                RE: No PepeLePew13 04-21-09 76                                                                    RE: No dabo 04-21-09 86                                                                RE: No Snidget 04-21-09 78                                                        Dabo, please IceCat 04-21-09 70                                                            RE: Dabo, please dabo 04-21-09 74                                                    Please explain IceCat 04-21-09 69                                                        RE: Please explain PepeLePew13 04-21-09 71                                                            I'm specifically asking IceCat 04-21-09 72                                                                RE: I'm specifically asking PepeLePew13 04-21-09 75                                                                    Wags, please respond IceCat 04-21-09 77                                                                        RE: Wags, please respond Prof_ Wagstaff 04-21-09 80                                                                            Now that intent IceCat 04-21-09 81                                                                                RE: Now that intent Prof_ Wagstaff 04-21-09 82                                                                                    ... and Pepe IceCat 04-21-09 83                                                                                        RE: ... and Pepe PepeLePew13 04-21-09 84                                                                                        Thanks, Pepe IceCat 04-21-09 85                                                                RE: I'm specifically asking Penelope Le Pew 04-21-09 79                                RE: Question for Pepe Molaholic 04-20-09 46                                    RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-20-09 49                                        RE: Question for Pepe Molaholic 04-21-09 91                                            RE: Question for Pepe Prof_ Wagstaff 04-21-09 92                            RE: Question for Pepe Penelope Le Pew 04-20-09 41            Boxcar Children samboohoo 04-21-09 59  RE: Just a minor reminder about las... mhdallas 04-20-09 19  Another question for Pepe Molaholic 04-20-09 24    RE: Another question for Pepe PepeLePew13 04-20-09 27    RE: Another question for Pepe featherfish81 04-20-09 52  RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Belle Book 04-20-09 29    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... MaryKat 04-20-09 30        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... PepeLePew13 04-20-09 31            RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Snidget 04-20-09 32                RE: Just a minor reminder about las... CTgirl 04-20-09 48  RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Penelope Le Pew 04-20-09 37    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Molaholic 04-20-09 40        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Penelope Le Pew 04-20-09 42            RE: Just a minor reminder about las... CTgirl 04-20-09 45    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Starshine 04-21-09 53        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... ARnutz 04-21-09 56    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Snidget 04-21-09 55        RE: Just a minor reminder about las... samboohoo 04-21-09 88    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... Max Headroom 04-21-09 57    RE: Just a minor reminder about las... samboohoo 04-21-09 61  RE: Just a minor reminder about las... dabo 04-21-09 60  About the Clue Box samboohoo 04-21-09 62    RE: About the Clue Box Snidget 04-21-09 63    RE: About the Clue Box dabo 04-21-09 64        RE: About the Clue Box mindy23 04-21-09 67  thoughts Corvis 04-21-09 87    RE: thoughts reggie 04-21-09 89    RE: thoughts PepeLePew13 04-21-09 90        RE: thoughts Corvis 04-22-09 93

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MaryKat 221 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 04-20-09, 07:04 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." So, did they laugh at Luke or not? I didn't see them laughing. Was it edited so Margie and Luke look like villians?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 07:06 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Well they said in the taxi that they were going to laugh at them to make them more upset so I would assume there was some laughing. I certainly thought I saw some facial expressions that tended to be of the laughing at you sort of thing. I do think the girls were intent on provoking the emotional meltdown to keep the confrontation going rather than just let it go and move on.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dragonflies 8051 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 07:18 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Agreed, and really I think they would have done that regardless of who they were in the confrontation with. Just happened that Luke is deaf. I think Marge was too senstive about that. I can only imagine the carp he goes through dealing with ignorant people, but I think Jen/Kisha were just being antagonistic in general. Not that I liked it, just sayin. thanks Slicey!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 08:22 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I agree. I do not think they picked Luke because of the disability. He just was someone that crossed them that they could push over the edge.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

byoffer 15808 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 08:48 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Yup. Remembering that the girls play a lot of competitive (and physical sports) and I think their laughing reaction was just a competitive instinct, meant to get under the skin of the opposition. It had nothing to do with Luke being deaf, and everything to do with playing mind games with the competition. It's Bachelor Love, which is like Monopoly Money in that it has no actual value outside the game. - frodis   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dajaki 1453 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 04-20-09, 08:53 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." When we were children (there were 5 of us), my siblings and I used to do the same thing when tattling to our parents. One would have his/her say, then at the beginning of the other child's rant, the first would laugh and roll the eyes. The point was to communicate "Are you ready to hear this pack of lies? You're not going to fall for it, are you?" Kisha and Jen were not laughing at Luke's disability, but they were acting like children. Neither team acquitted themselves well (though wise move from Tammy & Victor to just stay quiet and pretend invisibility).   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 11:19 AM (EST) 17. "We have a winner..." >Kisha and Jen were not laughing at Luke's >disability, but they were acting >like children. Neither team >acquitted themselves well I don't know if they were laughing directly at Luke's disability but I think they chose to laugh during the time when Luke was explaining his side because they knew he was upset and he'd get even more upset - so the fact they chose that time while he was signing to laugh doesn't look good, regardless of whether they were laughing at his signing or just at him. And that, folks, is it in a nutshell: Neither team acquitted themselves well and they were acting like children. That's it. >(though wise move from Tammy & Victor >to just stay quiet and >pretend invisibility). I wonder why they bothered to stay there. Phil had already rung them in as team # 2. Wonder how long they had to stand there and let their eardrums get abused, too. Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 07:28 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Was I the only one who thought Luke was (again) a horribly spoiled brat, and Margie a complete enabler of his bad behavior? While I understand his frustration at his difficulty of expressing his anger, his actions reminded me of how my three-year-old acts when she doesn't get her way. Temper tantrum, anyone? I'd guess Luke's never gotten a "time-out" in his entire life. Also, Luke's side of the story was creatively told too. He was indeed the first one to the clue box outside the salon, and Jen did push him, but his flying elbow wasn't necessary. (In hockey terms, I'd give Jen two minutes for instigating and Luke two minutes for elbowing.) At the second clue box, Jen was there first, and Luke ran into her and bumped her. Yet when Luke was telling the story at the mat, that incident was also Jen's fault. I could hear Luke thinking, "I didn't do it, she did. Neener neener." *sticks out tongue* And Margie's playing of the race card was totally unnecessary. While she may not have intended it to come out that way, it did, and Jen and Kisha showed restraint in not rising to the bait. I'm sure that Luke has felt discrimination due to his deafness, but I'm equally sure that Kisha and Jen have also felt discrimination due to being African-American. While I appreciate a good TAR villain, that was ugly last night. Headbanger by IceCat, siggie by agman   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 07:31 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." *sits with Max* I am totally with you. Luke will never become the grown man he should be if Margie keeps up her coddling and defending him. Margie was not only an enabler, but also irrational and hypocritical.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

catsnotkids 184 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 04-20-09, 08:05 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." ITA. I haven't liked Luke from the beginning, I have to confess. He's always acted like an over-emotional baby and last night was no different. He overreacts to everything. We were laughing when he got bitten by the bird. And, of course, he makes a HUGE deal out of it. Man up, dude. You got a small boo-boo from a bird. So what. Margie acts like everything that happens to Luke is somehow related to his deafness. I don't really see what the big deal is - he's deaf. OK, we get it. Why shouldn't he be able to do pretty much anything else as a hearing person on the Race? He has an interpreter with him. Margie should really reexamine why she took his side in the pushing hubub. He was absolutely at fault the second time - he ran Jen down! If my DH did that to a woman under any circumstances I'd be mad as hell. Totally not appropriate. The two of them are a real pair. I will be extremely disappointed if they win.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 06:42 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." >He has an interpreter with him. If you're referring to his mother being his interpreter, no it's not even remotely close to the same thing as being in his own element with other deaf people or having an impartial interpreter who can relay exactly the tone of everyone's conversations. His mother is adequate to get the info across to him, but her signing is nowhere close to Luke's level and she doesn't effectively get a lot of the subtleties across to him. I understood a lot more of what Luke was saying than his mother did. If you're referring to having a professional interpreter there on the Race behind the scenes, nope that's not the case either. Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 08:26 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I got upset with Luke when he said they were wrong for calling the deaf kid "b!tch". I am sure Jen would have said it no matter who it happened with. I thought Luke and Margie were on this race to prove Luke could do anything that non-deaf people can do. So why is it them bringing up the deaf card when it suits them? Do Margie and Luke expect the other racers to step back and let Luke get away with things other racers would get called on? Luke thought it was great when they U-Turned Kris and Amanda. I am sure if they themselves had been U-Turned and booted from the race Luke & Margie would have seen it differently. Instead of giggling on the train that they got rid of the other team they would have been furious that someone dared to U-Turn the deaf kid. I put alot of the blame on Margie. She is not helping her adult son by treating him like an entitled 6 yr old. Luke throws a hissy fit everytime things do not go his way. And the continued complaining about the bird bite was another example. We have no idea how much was edited out of that mat fight. But we did get Phil's reaction to Margie losing it. Phil tried telling her he did not see the sisters as laughing at Luke signing. But Margie had completely lost it by this time and was beyond listening to reason.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

qwertypie 9721 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 08:34 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Agreed.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 11:25 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." >We have no idea how much >was edited out of that >mat fight. But we >did get Phil's reaction to >Margie losing it. Phil >tried telling her he did >not see the sisters as >laughing at Luke signing. >But Margie had completely lost >it by this time and >was beyond listening to reason. Yeah, I'd like to know what happened in full before I can pass complete judgment on Margie but let me repost part of a post I made over on the East Coast thread: I don't know *what* they were laughing at, but I think they knew he gets flustered rather easily so they might have been capitalizing on that. But, consider this... Would you agree that Margie has been one of the more mild-mannered people in this game so far, at least up until last night? Has anyone berated less people or had less confrontations or snippy comments than Margie amongst the final ten people in the game? She didn't bite back when someone went up to Luke's face and called him a sneaky deaf kid for the U-Turn back in about episode 3. She wasn't shown defending Luke, she just shrugged it off. (Note: Dweeze replied to this point that the context was different in that it was more of a joking comment about Luke, and I agreed but that it went to showing that Margie was laid back about that situation instead of being prone to reacting negatively) But something set her off big time last night. I think it's a reasonably safe guess that she wouldn't have been set off in a big way if it was just some random laughing. WE saw on TV that Jen/Kisha would use laughing at someone as a game strategy to rile up other people, but Margie didn't see that or know that. She's been around Luke for all these years and she knows the limits that other people push in getting on Luke. Wouldn't you agree that there was *something* from Kisha/Jen that really pushed Margie's limits? She didn't defend Luke when he was called out right to his face by others earlier in the game, but she comes swinging right out there while on the mat? I'd say there was more to it than what we were shown from Jen/Kisha to make Margie, one of the more mild-mannered people in the game, so riled up. I expected Luke to go into great histrionics, but I didn't expect this from Margie. Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PsychoKitty 678 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 04-20-09, 04:15 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 04:17 PM (EST) I agree with all of you - and I have to tell you CatsNotKids - I LOVE your alias! Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;) Signature by tribephyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cyndimaus 3117 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 04-20-09, 08:49 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." At the second clue box, Jen was there first, and Luke ran into her and bumped her. Yet when Luke was telling the story at the mat, that incident was also Jen's fault. To me it looked like they both were running and had a hard time stopping. I think Jen may have run into the clue box whether Luke was there or not. It looked like he tried to avoid running into her but his momentum prevented that. Jen even said something about her own momentum. But because of Jen's attitude (or whatever you want to call it) she decided he did it on purpose. I think it was blown way out of proportion on both sides. The girls need to grow up and just play the game (I thought they acted rather like petty children) and Margie needs to let Luke grow up. (although I'm sure she's seen him hurt, emotionally, a lot throughout his life so I can understand her over-reaction to a certain extent) Luke is doing so well and he will do even better if mom will pull away a little more. Sigs by Cyg   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:00 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Agree with you. At the second clue box, you can clearly see momentum carrying them both forward. Luke clearly put his arms up in an attempt not to touch her. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mhdallas 165 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 04-20-09, 01:07 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." >And Margie's playing of the race >card was totally unnecessary. What race card? Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough, but I don't think her expression had anything to do with their color. Frankly, I use the words 'you people' all the time and am NEVER referring to anyone of a particular color. It's just an expression to encompass more than one person at a time, and unless it's obviously used in a derogatory manner, then I don't think it should be assumed that the person who used it is a closet racist. I'm sure that if Jen or Kisha had been offended, they wouldn't have hesitated to let her know about it!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 02:51 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Not sure how what M said qualifies as playing the race card. She said that, because they were black, she would have thought they had some knowledge of what it's like to be discriminated against because of a factor beyond your control, and quite frankly, I was thinking the same thing before she said it.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 03:41 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Kisha & Jen's ethnic background had no effect on their actions in the race, thus my reference to Margie playing the race card. She could've made an equally strong case without mentioning it.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:04 AM (EST) 14. "Question for Pepe" Can you read lips? I think you can, I just forget. Is that something you learn by instinct as a child? Would you say it's even harder for someone like Luke, who can't read lips, but only sign? I tend to lean toward Luke being somewhat spoiled, yet I also tend to err on siding with him moreso than others here might. Since he is not a lipreader, I imagine it makes it very hard for him, and I think a lot of his frustrations are sometimes miscontrued as him being spoiled. And I'm not saying he deserves a pass. I just can appreciate where he is coming from a little more. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mindy23 1319 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 04-20-09, 10:45 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Question for Pepe" I have to agree with Max and the posters who also agreed with him. At first, I really rallied for Marge and Luke. Not because he is disabled, big freaking deal. There are a huge amount of disabled people in this world who do reality shows. What about the man with one leg who did Survivor? I don't remember him ever crying because he fell off a rafter during a challenge. He 'manned up' and realized there were some things he was not going to be able to do, but he gave it all he had. And it probably is tough for the people around you-THEY are put in an ackward situation at first, wanting to do everything to help you out, and not look like they are being unkind or rude. But, as the other poster said, when he pulled (and it was HIS decision) his U-Turn on the other couple, laughed about it, told his mom, 'hey, this is for a million dollars', and made a huge deal about it, we all got the point! He is in this race for the kill, and darn the people he steps on. So, in MY opinion, the pity stops here! And I think many of the racers felt the same way, even though they never expressed that in any way at all. They have all been very polite to him, or believe me, we would have heard about it! Marge has been seen telling the taxi drivers to NOT let the other players know the directions to the stops, and other things that show they know how to play dirty. Sure, they don't yell and scream like the one cheerleader does, but Luke has his own passive-agressive way of dealing. And to be honest, I doubt he's been that abused in his life. Most of the deaf people I have been in contact with have gone to special schools where they have been with other people of the same handicaps, and once transferred into public schools, have been treated extremely well! As a school nurse, I can testify to that-not one of my deaf students was EVER treated badly by ANYONE unless they were a bully themselves! Marge has a rude awakening, when, in 20 or so years, Luke is still crying, "Mamma, help me", and she's barely walking, or getting out of her wheelchair. She has totally spoiled this kid, wrapped him in a warm, fuzzy blanket that he's become addicted to, to the point that he can't even handle a freaking bird bite! Or finding signs, or walking up a hill-need I say more? He's a brat! An ADULT BRAT! All I can say is: Good Luck with that one, Marge, and I really really hope you two don't win. Attitude alone has left a really bad taste in my mouth for the two of you.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 11:14 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Question for Pepe" I don't know about spoiled, but no question he's whiny and prone to histrionics. That's just who he is, and I don't know where he got that from as his mom is completely different from him in terms of personality. I would be the last person to suggest he should get a pass for his behaviour - there are many, many other deaf people in addition to myself who don't resort to that kind of ridiculous behaviour in stressful situations. I do read lips -- I was raised in an oral, mainstreamed environment (meaning I was in an all-hearing school) -- and it's something I learned from speech therapy class. It's not something that you just pick up by instinct and some hearing people are also able to pick up lipreading through practice (teenage girls are experts at this in class). You're correct that it's more 'closed-in' for Luke who went to a deaf college and grew up in a deaf institution -- being on TAR is much more out of his comfort zone than it would be for someone like me. He's happy when he's just doing his thing racing in the game, but gets frustrated easily when it comes to things that are out of his comfort zone (i.e. naming a Russian playwright which is not what deaf people are used to knowing, communicating with other teams in a stressful situation, etc.). I will freely admit to getting annoyed at times when I have to repeat an order to the waitress for the third time when she didn't get what I wanted the first time or whatever -- we all have our own comfort zones or tolerance points, as you've all seen the occasional ranting shoppers in a lineup or a parent screaming at the coach that his kid should be playing or the blowhard demanding to see the hotel manager. Luke just happens to have a short fuse when it comes to language issues.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 03:10 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 03:11 PM (EST) I do read lips -- I was raised in an oral, mainstreamed environment (meaning I was in an all-hearing school) -- and it's something I learned from speech therapy class. It's not something that you just pick up by instinct and some hearing people are also able to pick up lipreading through practice Like you, I was was raised in a mainstream environment, but it wasn't until I was in 2nd grade before it was discovered that I had a profound hearing problem. In particular, I had (and have) high-frequency hearing loss, with loss only about 30% at the very low ranges but upwards of 90% or total loss at high frequencies. What this meant was that I could hear elongated vowels pretty well, but not the consonants, especially the 't', 'ch', 'sh', 's', and other consonants like them. How was my hearing loss discovered? My second grade teacher was reading Boxcar Children and when she put the book up in front of her mouth, I could not understand her. After a reading, we would draw a picture from the chapter she just read. I got caught looking at my classmates drawings to get more of a clue about the story. She asked why and after I told her I could not hear what she was saying with the book in front of her mouth, she sent me to the school's (Catholic priest) headmaster. He talked with me for a minute, normally, and then asked me to turn around as he spoke. Bingo. My parents got called that evening and they were quite surprised. In short, I had learned to lipread as a young child and toddler. Not consciously, of course, but out of necessity to be able to communicate. I hadn't even realized that I had learned to lipread independently. So, I think it is partly instinct to lipread, particularly where it is necessary to communicate. Even now, I can put the news at mute volume, and as long as the newscaster enunciates their consonants clearly, I can easily follow the newscast in silence. Some nationals are harder to lipread, though (Australians are the most difficult as they hardly move their mouths, almost mumbling). Although I've learned both ASL and the British-based ISL I've never used it except with students in an all-deaf school where I served as a parent-student volunteer in Malaysia.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 03:15 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 03:15 PM (EST) >So, I think it is partly instinct to lipread, >particularly where it is necessary >to communicate. That's interesting... My experience has usually been that those who were brought up in a deaf institution all their lives tend to be poor lipreaders while those brought up in a mainstreamed environment (meaning they usually went to a speech therapist) were better at lipreading, so that's why I said that it was less based on instinct. But of course, I did mention the ability of high school girls to be able to mouth words to each other in class all the time, so there's some instinct there and a contradiction of what I just said... Waitresses in busy and loud restaurants are usually quite good at lipreading as well. Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

cahaya 18904 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 03:35 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Question for Pepe" Waitresses in busy and loud restaurants are usually quite good at lipreading as well. And body language! (But I digress.) Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Pepe.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-20-09, 07:38 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Question for Pepe" I have wondered about this since the beginning of the Race when they said that Luke didn't read lips. If this is something that should be started at an early age, why would parents choose to not teach their deaf child how to read lips? Into the magna tribe by phyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 07:43 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Question for Pepe" For some reason I thought it was easier for people who have some hearing that lose it over time to pick up lip reading than if you start off deaf, but that might be from some friends where they were worried they would lose their hearing as a kid so started on learning things just in case.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 07:55 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Question for Pepe" Many parents put their children into a deaf institute from an early age so they are with their peers from the get-go. For many deaf people, there's nothing to be "fixed" and they are happier in their culture. It's a distinct culture with their own syntax, language, traditions, and all. Regardless, many do learn to lipread along the way, but for many others, there's no need as they are still able to live as a functional member of society. Luke is a college grad in criminal justice so he's doing just fine without lipreading.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-20-09, 08:15 PM (EST) 38. "RE: Question for Pepe" I don't know Pepe, perhaps this is a topic better discussed in person, over beers than on an internet message board because I'm not looking to get into a fight. Many parents put their children into a deaf institute from an early age so they are with their peers from the get-go. For many deaf people, there's nothing to be "fixed" and they are happier in their culture. It's a distinct culture with their own syntax, language, traditions, and all. However, this reminds me of my Sicilian neighbors. I suppose they could have said that they wanted their children to retain their culture and not learn to speak English and then wonder why they didn't get along in an English speaking world. It has nothing to do with something to be "fixed" it has to do with a persons ability to communicate with the majority culture around them. Luke is a college grad in criminal justice so he's doing just fine without lipreading. Sure. As long as he remains within the deaf community. I would submit that without his mother, the show has shown that he doesn't do so well outside of it. I suspect that this post is will ##### you off, but I'll hit post antway. Into the magna tribe by phyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 08:22 PM (EST) 39. "RE: Question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 08:54 PM (EST) So if the child of your Sicilian neighbours prefer to speak Italian half of the time as well as learning English, he should stick to his culture and not bother the rest of us? You know just as well as I do that the show puts undue pressure on racers and make them act in ways they don't normally do in real life. Just like there are many people who freak out at their child's soccer game because the kid isn't getting more than 15 minutes on the field or go apeshit in the line at a supermarket over an overcharge of 15 cents or flipping at the doctor's office because the doc won't give the prescription that the patient expects. You cannot compare a Sicilian neighbour to an unique culture such as Luke's. Deaf people *do* learn English through reading but 'talk' in American Sign Language. There is no written ASL and deaf people are expected to write in English. I'll have a beer with someone who does understand different cultures or at least attempts to understand the nuances of different cultures. When you've been in our shoes, you'd be able to relate, but since you haven't...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-20-09, 09:01 PM (EST) 43. "RE: Question for Pepe" I'll have a beer with someone who does understand different cultures or at least attempts to understand the nuances of different cultures. Well quite frankly, I don't think I've been anything less than polite, or attempted to understand. I am sorry that I have offended you. If I have been condesending, please point it out. Into the magna tribe by phyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:10 PM (EST) 44. "RE: Question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 09:14 PM (EST) Condescending? How about your thread from a month ago? Come on, Wags. If you had said "It's okay to bash the gay guy" or "It's okay to bash the black dude", what kind of response would you have gotten? Think about it. And? This. Sure. As long as he remains within the deaf community. That is remarkably condescending and rude to my people. When MaryAdam acted like a priss in his season, we didn't say he should stick to being in an idiot camp for nancy boys. When Flo whined her way to the finish line, we didn't say she should stick to being in a prima donna camp away from other members of society. When Cara and Jaime screamed at their cab driver for not understanding them or complaining that China is full of Chinese people, I didn't see you saying that they should remain in a NFL training camp and away from society. Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-20-09, 09:33 PM (EST) 47. "RE: Question for Pepe" Condescending? How about your thread from a month ago? Come on, Wags. If you had said "It's okay to bash the gay guy" or "It's okay to bash the black dude", what kind of response would you have gotten? Think about it. O fer crissake, I thought that I made this pretty clear at the time, but I'll do it one more time. I thought that whiney, immature Luke was getting a pass on the Basher Board because he is deaf. If he was gay or black and I felt that was the reason that there was not a thread bashing him for his antics because he was gay or black, I would have posted just such a thread. I said it before and I'll say it one more time; I*was*not*bashing*him*because*he*is*deaf, I was saying it's OK to bash him even if he is deaf! Do you really not see the difference? Into the magna tribe by phyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:41 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Question for Pepe" Wags... you KNOW there would have been a hubbub if you had phrased it that way about black people or gay people. You just don't do it. If you think that's okay, then I'm sorry you feel that way -- it is incredibly condescending the way you've made your posts. Don't EVER presume to understand how we feel and tell us to see the difference.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-20-09, 09:54 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 09:57 PM (EST) Wags... you KNOW there would have been a hubbub if you had phrased it that way about black people or gay people. It really is a moot point because no one here has ever not bashed someone because of their minority status. Luke is finally getting his well deserved share. Don't EVER presume to understand how we feel and tell us to see the difference. Pepe. When have I ever done THAT? ETA: I'm done Pepe. If you'd like to continue this via PM, I'd be happy to oblige. Into the magna tribe by phyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 06:24 AM (EST) 54. "RE: Question for Pepe" >LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 >AT 09:14 PM (EST) > >Condescending? How about your thread >from a month ago>? >Come on, Wags. If >you had said "It's okay >to bash the gay guy" >or "It's okay to bash >the black dude", what kind >of response would you have >gotten? Think about it. > > >And? This. Sure. As long >as he remains within the >deaf community. FWIW... these comments are a direct slam to my wife who has gone through many of the same life experiences as Luke and has taken the effort and time to explain her experiences/views in a post further down below before you replied above with the "Sure. As long as he remains within the deaf community" bon mot. That is an audist statement.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 08:22 AM (EST) 58. "Bashing the contestants" ... is always OK to do. It IS acceptable to bash white contestants, black contestants, gay contestants, blind contestants, and deaf/hard of hearing contestants for their performance in the show. It is NOT acceptable to bash contestants for these characteristics. I do not believe the Prof violated this concept in any of posts but I am also thankful to Pepe for reminding us that sensitivity when posting about these subjects is always very important. That being said... let's keep the discussion about the contestants and not about each other. Thanks.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 09:34 AM (EST) 65. "Question for IceCat" LAST EDITED ON 04-21-09 AT 09:37 AM (EST) Do you really see nothing wrong with this? Luke is a college grad in criminal justice so he's doing just fine without lipreading. Sure. As long as he remains within the deaf community. I would submit that without his mother, the show has shown that he doesn't do so well outside of it. I suspect that this post is will ##### you off, but I'll hit post anyway. Wags knew what my wife had already posted about her life experiences being quite similar to Luke's in this thread, and he knew it was going to piss us off, yet he posted that anyway and continued a forest fire. He bashed deaf people in general with that statement. Audism   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 09:53 AM (EST) 66. "RE: Question for IceCat" Personally, I don't have anything against the deaf. I even know some sign though I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I wouldn't pretend to know it all. The thing that gets me, why the deaf comunity expects the rest of us to conform to their interpretations of some bogus rules that they made up? I don't get it. Live in the real world. Most of the time venting is just venting, can't us hearing people have some right to vent?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 10:07 AM (EST) 68. "RE: Question for IceCat" By that interpretation then, gay people need to stop fighting for their rights. Black people need to get back to being slaves again. Women need to get back into the kitchen and stop making an ado over everything. That was the "real world" for centuries. Bogus rules, hmmm?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 10:26 AM (EST) 73. "No" Hearing impaired folks, and blacks and reds and yellows and whatever, should stand up for their rights. By all means. Does this mean a hearng-impaired jerk has the right to to shove another competitor to the ground? No. Much as I love you, Pepe, in this instance I think Luke was on the wrong side, he was plainlny out to get revenge andm nthing else.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 11:21 AM (EST) 76. "RE: No" Umm, you were talking about why the deaf community expects the rest of us to conform to their interpretations of some bogus rules and that we need to live in the real world ... then you segue to how a hearing-impaired (wrong term, by the way) jerk (not going to argue with that) has the right to shove another competitor to the ground? What does pushing a competitor have to do with your statement about conforming to bogus rules that was made up? (and while I agree Luke was over-aggressive, even Jen agreed there was some forward motion that propelled her into the clue box so it wasn't an outright push)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 12:51 PM (EST) 86. "RE: No" The deaf community has assumed it is bad form for someone of the hearng community to say the b-word out of hearing to comprehend the insult. That is all very well, but to assume hearing folk cannot vent to themselves and not intend an insult to promote further confrontation is erroneous. Sometimes venting is just venting, nothing else. I've reviewed the episode, as it was edited I cannot say how it happened, I cannot tell re. the b-word. Has the deaf community arrived at some supposition that hearing folk are absolutely disrespectful of the deaf by venting whatever when they cannot hear it? Is this fair? Are the rest of us supposed to apply to some supposed rules we do not evn know about? Personally, when I vent 99.9% of the time it means nothing, I just had to vent. I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't know why I should be expected to understand some rule some handicapped community has decided upon of which I know nothing whatsoever. Not that Jen wasn't wrong in the first instance, it was bad form, but why it makes it especially bad form because Luke is deaf just escapes me.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 11:31 AM (EST) 78. "RE: No" Well having watched the slo mo and the angles I think it looked much worse than it really was, and of the two, only Jen has the athletic background to make what she was doing to him actually cause harm and knows how to make someone near her look like they did much more than they did (College basketball vs criminal justice). The full clip to me tells a different story than the parts they cut for the replays. But what I saw won't change anyone's mind so I should stop. I will say it did look like some of the Push Hands sparring I've done which is done at that close of a body contact. I will say that the way his elbow had it come at me, with my arm where Jen had it I would have stepped back but not felt in danger. That elbow to the solar plexus she did to him to repay him I think could be a lot more dangerous and I would have probably put her to the ground for pulling that move on me even if I backed off as soon as she was off balance just a moment before like Luke did.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 10:20 AM (EST) 70. "Dabo, please" ... don't fan the flames by using loaded words like 'bogus'.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 11:05 AM (EST) 74. "RE: Dabo, please" Okay, my bad.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 10:12 AM (EST) 69. "Please explain" ... the following statement (which you bolded) bashes deaf people in general: "... As long as he remains within the deaf community..." Are you suggesting that Wags was asserting that Luke should remain within the deaf community. If so, that was clearly not Wags intention. Wags was stating that the show has portrayed Luke's lack of lip reading skills, hinders him as he interacts with people who cannot sign (ie: people outside the deaf and hard of hearing community). Wags' comment about potentially 'pissing you off' might have been an allusion to a potential mis-interpretation that he presumed would occur. If Wags is guilty of anything it might be that he presumed that you would mis-interpret what he was trying to say. It all comes down to your (not the rhetorical 'your') interpretation of what Wags meant by the phrase that you quoted and bolded.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 10:22 AM (EST) 71. "RE: Please explain" We saw throughout the show that Luke was doing fine in the race, no? He did many tasks on his own without his mom, and the team has finished in first place three times. I don't think it was all on his mom. I'm not sure what other interpretation one should take of "As long as he remains in the deaf community" if he can't survive without his mom?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 10:24 AM (EST) 72. "I'm specifically asking" ... for your interpretation of Wag's use of that phrase. Please answer that question.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 11:16 AM (EST) 75. "RE: I'm specifically asking" That if deaf people are not able to lipread, they should stick to being in their own community only. And that he assumes, based on a heavily-edited show, that Luke can only survive outside with his mother although my wife has attempted to explain how someone with similar experiences as Luke's would view situations in real life like the one he just went through on the show. My wife and I both object to the implication that lipreading or a mother is needed to survive in the "real world" (as others put it) or that if we can't do certain things, we ought to remain trapped in our own community. (As an aside, Luke's degree is from one of the hearing colleges at Rochester Institute of Technology, not from the deaf college. Worth a hill of beans, but it goes to show he's not helpless as others want to make it seem.)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 11:25 AM (EST) 77. "Wags, please respond" LAST EDITED ON 04-21-09 AT 11:47 AM (EST) Wags, in your use of the following the phrase: "As long as he remains within the deaf community" Did you intend to imply the meaning that Pepe inferred? "That if deaf people are not able to lipread, they should stick to being in their own community only" Edited to Add: Please include a response to Pene very interesting post #79. Also, please indicate whether you agree that, despite your actual intent, some of the inferences made by Pepe and Pene might be resonable given the wording you used combined with the perspective from which they are reading your post.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-21-09, 11:44 AM (EST) 80. "RE: Wags, please respond" No. I meant it exactly as you undersood it above; that because Luke does not lip read it effects how he is able to interact with the hearing world who can not sign. That is why I brought up my neighbors kids learning English. Learning to lip read is like another language, except it only allows you to understand what others are saying. Pepe's assuming that I meant all the rest of that is a huge leap IMO.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 11:53 AM (EST) 81. "Now that intent " ... has been clarified and looking at the discussion from Pene and Pepe's perspective. I mean really looking at it from the perspective of someone in the deaf and hard of hearing community, is it really such a 'huge' leap to find that phrase 'as long as he remains in the deaf community' to be kinda loaded?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-21-09, 12:00 PM (EST) 82. "RE: Now that intent " Yes, I agree that from Pepe and Pene's perspective, it might have been "kinda loaded". As dabo said above, my bad.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 12:09 PM (EST) 83. "... and Pepe" Please use the alert button if you feel that someone has violated the boards guidelines. Alleged incidents of audism, sexism, racism, etc should all be handled the same way: by pressing the alert button and letting the mods take appropriate action. In this case, some lack of clarity on the transmit side lead to some misinterpretation on the receive side. A timely click on the alert button might have allowed to fix this comms failure before it started to get out of hand.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 12:43 PM (EST) 84. "RE: ... and Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-21-09 AT 12:52 PM (EST) No problem, duly noted. I apologize if I've fanned any flames. I was just trying to get to the bottom of this so we all could learn from this and understand more about each other, and I was just concerned about the amount of misinformation out there. I've learned a few things the past couple of days myself.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

IceCat 17313 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 12:49 PM (EST) 85. "Thanks, Pepe" ... and now back to discussing those wacky contestants.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Penelope Le Pew 2031 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 04-21-09, 11:36 AM (EST) 79. "RE: I'm specifically asking" "Luke is a college grad in criminal justice so he's doing just fine without lipreading. Sure. As long as he remains within the deaf community. I would submit that without his mother, the show has shown that he doesn't do so well outside of it." - I am thinking - from what I have read this phrase (2nd language English) - deaf is the opposite meaning of hearing. Ie. change words for myself - As long as he stays away (opposite word of remain) from the hearing (opposite word of deaf) community. 'I would submit that without his mother, the show has shown that he doesn't do so well outside of it.' - in my understanding - the show would have shown - he would do well with the help of the interpreting service outside of deaf community. I am not sure what 'outside of it' -- what 'it' is? I don't know.. hard to explain from what I have read this.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:29 PM (EST) 46. "RE: Question for Pepe" Me, I'd love to sit and have a beer or three with Pepe, simply because I think he's incredibly interesting (even if he isn't a Dodger fan...) Wags can come too, but he's paying. Yet another Syren gem © MMV   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-20-09, 09:38 PM (EST) 49. "RE: Question for Pepe" Thanks Mola. I'd be happy to buy all night long. Even if you aren't a Twinkies fan. I'd like to have Pene there as well. Whether she believes it or not, she has made some very clear points tonight.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 07:28 PM (EST) 91. "RE: Question for Pepe" Thanks Mola. I'd be happy to buy all night long. Even if you aren't a Twinkies fan. We may have a chance -- I'll be going to the Big Baggie for a game July 27 (part of my annual baseball tour)... Tribe’s 5K gift. 3/17/2009. Mole Speak   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 04-21-09, 07:37 PM (EST) 92. "RE: Question for Pepe" You of course realize that "all night long" is midwesternese for "the first round". Into the magna tribe by phyl   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Penelope Le Pew 2031 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 04-20-09, 08:25 PM (EST) 41. "RE: Question for Pepe" All spoken language civilians can choose not to learn English because they can. We as deaf people could not speak English period. Still, need interpreter (of any language) to communicate. That is different.. you cannot compare us to others who can speak (no disability).   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 08:42 AM (EST) 59. "Boxcar Children" This was my favorite book as a child. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mhdallas 165 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 04-20-09, 12:49 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I have to agree on this one. Both parties were at fault, here, although I have to say that the way the girls kept laughing really got on my nerves. Regardless of why they were laughing, they chose a very poor time to do so - no wonder Marge got upset. If I even suspected that someone was laughing at my child, I would've exploded too. Sure, Luke's obviously been very sheltered, which may indeed cause him to be considered something of a 'brat' by some people; but I can't agree with that because, frankly, I'm a bit overprotective of my own kids and they don't have any physical disabilities like he does. Luke definitely needs to grow up - but after watching Kisha and Jennifer's behavior at the mat, so do they! And being a firm believer in Karma, I can't wait for next week when the girls have to take on the dreaded swimming pool. Personally, I wouldn't laugh at anyone's fears myself, but for those who like to laugh at other people...looks like justice is coming.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 03:25 PM (EST) 24. "Another question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 03:25 PM (EST) Or maybe two... Did Kisha/Jen sign "b!tch" in the taxi right after the second shoving match? (I'm basing this on what I saw from Luke - what I'm assuming to be the sign for "b!tch" -- open hand, palm out, gesturing away from the chin). She said the word "b!tch" at the same time as the gesture. Also, and this just may be my own unfamiliarity with sign language, but it seems to me that Luke's (& Maggie's for that matter) signing is somehow different from what I've seen before - I can't really define how it seems different to me, it just does. Thanks   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 03:46 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Another question for Pepe" LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 04:20 PM (EST) I'd have to look at the scene again, but it looked like Jen kind of looked at Luke for a moment, then when he turned back to the clue box, she gave a hand motion in front of her face that could be interpreted as 'bitch'. It all happened so fast that I didn't get a good look at the entire scene. I didn't notice a big difference in Luke's signing as they don't focus on his signing all that much in the show, but I'd bet you would be correct on there being a change in his signing. Luke hasn't been around another deaf person for the whole run of the show, so he's probably getting a little stale and his fingers aren't getting the same kind of workout they are used to. Remember when you went to Japan, Moley? Did it feel a little odd to you once you got back home and started being surrounded by 100% English speakers once again? (well, not 100% considering half of the people in L.A. speak Spanish) Certainly not the same thing for you as you had other English-speaking people with you on the tour, but it's a different sensory and auditory experience going from Japan to the USA, no?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

featherfish81 391 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 04-20-09, 11:29 PM (EST) 52. "RE: Another question for Pepe" I believe at the beginning they mentioned that Margie and Luke had developed some of their own signs, so maybe some of the difference stems from that, too.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 04-20-09, 04:22 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I'd say both sides were at fault here. LaKisha & Jennifer were probably laughing just to get Luke mad, and besides they didn't like the other team. Why should they, since Margie & Luke had misled them once before? But as for Margie & Luke, I think they just mistook the laughter at Luke as laughing at him for being deaf. That can easily happen, especially if you're already sensitive to a disability.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

MaryKat 221 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 04-20-09, 05:06 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I will not take sides because it was edited to the nth degree. Kisha is a giggler. Early in the race there was a clip on cbs.com about Kisha. She giggles all the time and in all situations. Margie must have known that by now, so what happened just prior to Margie's meltdown? The way it was shown, it didn't look like they were laughing at his signing. I would like to know the real story.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 06:29 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 06:31 PM (EST) Ditto. I'd love to get my hands on the full 45-minute video to see what both sides said. I still maintain there *had* to be something said/done by the sisters to get Margie so riled up and the whole scene was chopped up by the editors so it's hard to know just what is the real story. Maybe Margie just overreacted big-time as a mother. Maybe Kisha/Jen said something the editors didn't want to be shown on TV. Maybe the editors covered up parts to show the eventual winners (if it's not Victor/Tammy or Cara/Jaime) in a more favourable light. One thing we can all agree on is that Luke could use a chill pill, even if he has a valid reason for letting his frustration boil over due to being in the dark with much of the conversation because he couldn't understand fully what's going on (think of how many teams had a meltdown over the years because they couldn't communicate with a taxi driver or a local during a detour).   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 06:39 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I agree there is probably more to the whole situation than we saw. Who knows how much of the whole story we will really get (they have a video with just K&J and T&V at the mat after the fight on CBS but it is not enlightening). Between the editing and what each side says what happened it is hard to know what is going on. In any case Luke had a total meltdown and Margie was exceedingly pissed about something. K&J in confessionals said they were gunning for L&M and I really don't think they have a problem playing mind games to get someone so upset they are off their game. It will be interesting to see what mood everyone is in when the next leg starts.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CTgirl 7073 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:36 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I agree with all three of you! The fight was edited for TV and we may never know everything that happened on that day. Although I imagine that they will be asked about it in post-game interviews. The fight didn't reflect well on either team.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Penelope Le Pew 2031 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 04-20-09, 08:11 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Some of posters may know that I am profoundly deaf since the age of 2. I am using American Sign Language and I am able to read lips but not always. I went to deaf school, mainstreamed with hearing people and I was lost in the system because I was not allowed to use sign language. I could not read lip continually for 6 hours every day at school. My eyes would get hurt. When I graduated high school, I got rid of my hearing aids fast! I went to the community college. I had the interpreters in the class. I was surprised how smart I am because the interpreter reached the language barrier at the age of 18/19... Imagine how I felt for years as dumb, mute whatever with no help of the communication methods throughout the school years. I can relate to Luke’s behaviour/act. It is simply frustrating behaviour (or your word – acted out or baby spoiled rotten) equal to hearing voice tone. I act out only when I get VERY frustrating with hearing people who are rude or simply does not understand me or even mock me. I could not speak out unless I have a professional ASL interpreter. It does not mean I am big baby or betochy or whatever... It is simply frustrating for us as profoundly deaf. I am more frustrated right now because I could not express my feelings into the words because English is my 2nd language. If I hire the interpreter, hir would type for me. I try my best to explain why Luke is like that. Margie is Luke’s mother who can sign – bless her heart because my very own parents do not sign language! I am very proud of her! Not many parents can sign. They simply send their deaf children to the deaf institution - stay there weekly - come home for the weekend. I understand that there is no interpreter onsite. Margie is ‘mamabear’ – I feel that it is wrongly labelled because she can speak for Luke as he could not speak on the spot how he feels or pisses/hisses off... She is not the profession interpreter – she is the mother of Luke who can sign and understand the deaf culture. She has seen how Luke lives out all his life with bullying hearing children/adults. I can relate to that. When I was 3, hearing children put/stuffed sand in my mouth – why? I have no idea.. assuming that I was loud and could not communicate.. deaf, mute, dumb??? No one in my family can sign language with me when I was young unfortunately. This emotion feeling escalates for years with all other traumatic events. I feel insulted by Jen’s giggles or her nervous – no excuse! I would get pissed off just like Luke did. This happened to me when I fought so hard with the bad bully neighbours – their dog pooped everywhere on my property from the previous house – they laughed at me every time because I acted out/yelled and I could not communicate with them. They took advantage of telling the other neighbours how crazy I was and I could not communicate with other neighbours. If I m hearing, the situation would be different. I ended up seeing the counsellor because it is still freshly traumatic event for me. They simply did not get the message. I could go on and on- I have many stories..Anyway Luke can assume that Jen laughed at his disability/act/frustration/whatever because I thought the same... It is simply not funny period! So, Am I being labelled overreaction drama queen? No, it is simply frustrating action(body language) because I am good at it by communicating with other hearing people who triggered/reacted the problem. If I had the interpreter right there, things would be different. Anyway, thought I should explain some of deaf people who act like this. I try my best to explain in my own words – mixed with ASL foundation here. I could ask for Pepe’s help to correct my language like he did in the past but I would like you to read what the language is like what deaf people write. I don’t post much here because of language barrier. I understand and read what you posted but I am frustrated because I could not express my frustration correctly due to this language barrier.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 08:24 PM (EST) 40. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Thank you, Pene. That was well said. Tribe’s 5K gift. 3/17/2009. Mole Speak   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Penelope Le Pew 2031 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 04-20-09, 08:31 PM (EST) 42. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." LAST EDITED ON 04-20-09 AT 09:37 PM (EST) Thanks.. I still don't feel better after my post.. I want this to be corrected by Pepe or interpreter to say it better or even best. This is like Luke's feeling - not satisfactory at that moment being upset - if he has the interpreter on spot, express his feeling freely and open... none of us would end up bashing Luke/Margie here as it forced me to come here and explain how Deaf people really feel tonight.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CTgirl 7073 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-20-09, 09:28 PM (EST) 45. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Pene, I don't think you need your post to be corrected. You did a fine job expressing your frustration with the situation, and what you said does help me to understand Luke and his behavior. Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 04-21-09, 00:56 AM (EST) 53. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Pene, your English isn't perfect, that is true, however if you had got an interpreter, or even Pepe to "correct" this you would be doing yourself a disservice. What you did write is eloquent and has passion, had it been edited it might lose that. I am one of the people who has been seeing Luke as a spoiled crybaby, however in light of your comments I am reconsidering.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 07:19 AM (EST) 56. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." I totally agree with Starshine. Pene, you are awesome. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. It helps us to see things in another light.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 07:17 AM (EST) 55. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." *hugs* You may see all the imperfections, but I liked seeing you type in your own voice. Heck your written English communication is a whole lot clearer than a lot of people I know who have English as a first language and have had perfect hearing their whole life. I sometimes forget how different the grammar is for ASL compared to English, but I can see from your writing how the differences probably make it more efficient than a word for word transliteration of English. The inability to communicate does lead to a lot of frustrations and I don't see Luke's frustration any differently than the hearing people on the show who yell at those who can't understand English. I'm sure he was cast, like many hearing people have been cast, because he is expressive with his emotions. It makes for good TV. They are much more likely to cast someone that lets their emotions get away from them regardless of what else comes with the package. They need someone to bring the drama, and this season it happens to be Luke. I do think a lot of the comments he gets about how he behaves when frustrate he would get if he was anyone else with any other set of abilities. His frustration may look a bit different because of how he communicates, and being more used to communicating with his body rather than his voice. Then again I don't always handle frustration all that well, so I'd probably get some interesting commentary if I was ever to get it caught on film. I also understand his Mom being protective of him. I don't think she is that different from any other very protective mother. She has additional burdens on this race because she often has to speak for him. Having the emotional connection with what he is feeling and his life story probably does make it a lot harder for her to translate as she is going to be more caught up in his emotions than a professional translator would. I don't think that is always a bad thing, but I do think it changes the dynamic Luke has with other people. Some kids are extremely cruel to anyone who is different for any reason. I got more than my fair share of abuse as a kid, mostly because I wasn't about to change everything about myself and kiss some people's little behinds to get accepted only to have the whole dynamic change when the next little tyrant got to be king or queen of the playground. I'm sorry that some people don't ever grow out of that playground tyrant phase. It is sad to see people live their whole life like that. Normund Invasion by Agman   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 01:23 PM (EST) 88. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Completely agree with you about Margie. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Max Headroom 10028 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 07:52 AM (EST) 57. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Thank you for explaining, Pene. Your post has given me valuable perspective on Luke's actions during the race and in the post-leg scenes at the finish mat. While I still think Luke is a spoiled brat, I have a much better understanding of his frustration with communication difficulties and how it affects his mannerisms. MangaSliced!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 09:02 AM (EST) 61. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Thank you Pene. I think somewhere up above or maybe in the other thread, I mentioned something about Luke speaking with his hands and that being Luke's way of "raising his voice." I don't care if Kiesha and Jen were laughing at his temper tantrum, it was wrong. I see his tantrum as simply his way of raising his voice and expressing his frustration. The other thing is that the only person he could understand at that mat was Margie, as she is the only one who was speaking (by use of her hands) in a way that Luke could understand. I still commend Phil for his use of signing Luke's place for him. I don't expect the other contestants to learn sign language, but I have to wonder how many of them have made any attempt to communicate with Luke. Regarding Margie and what she said about Jen/Keisha being black, I don't think she said it in a way that had her playing the race card. I wonder what the response would have been had Keisha or Jen turned it around and said something similar. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 08:45 AM (EST) 60. "RE: Just a minor reminder about last night's mat fight." Personally, I think both teams were guilty of poor sportsmanship. At the first cluebox Luke arrived first, we don't see his arrival only that he is there slightly to the right of the cluebox. Jen coming from behind aims to go to his left but he shifts his body to the left. She adjusts slightly more to the left and when she reaches him puts her right hand on his back, so at this point he absolutely does know where she is, he continues shifting to the left. This is the body block and fair enough, and Jen should have avoided this contact if she could have. She reaches around him with her left arm, whether to reach the cluebox or brace against his continued leftward shft is unknowable. Pulling the clue from the cluebox he throws an elbow at her head, this may or may not have been an inadvertant move as he knew where she was but was also pulling the clue from the cluebox. He leaves with the clue, she calls him the b-word while retrieving her own clue, then makes a hand gesture in his direction. Clearly, Jen should have avoided contact, Luke should not have thrown the elbow at her head (the body block without that elbow was a perfectly legitimate move), the b-word and hand gesture were unsportsmanlike conduct. In the taxi Marge initially tells Luke to calm down but then informs him of the b-word, amping him up even more. At the next cluebox Jen arrives slightly ahead of Luke, is trying to slow to a stop, then Luke runs directly into her from behind without making any effort to avoid the collision. He clearly intended to shove her down. The elbow may have been unintentional but this contact is clearly an intentional and malicious act for which he has no excuse, very unsportsmanlike conduct. Kisha and Marge run into the scene with Marge inexplicably telling Kisha not Jen to cut it out, a bit more ugliness occurs. Up until this point Luke being deaf has no bearing on anything except that he cannot rely on audible cues and relies entirely on Marge to let him know what he couldn't hear. The fight at the Pitstop was just a reality TV producer's dream come true, and I will make no further comment about that.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 09:08 AM (EST) 62. "About the Clue Box" Frankly, I think the contestants just need to check themselves at the clue box. They still have to get the clue and do what it says, so slowing down and being courteous to each other is not that hard to do. *shrug* Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 09:13 AM (EST) 63. "RE: About the Clue Box" Yep, giving someone a few seconds to get the clue out of the box isn't going to make or break the race. I do understand how competition can get the best of anyone, but it really shouldn't be that hard to keep your hands off of whoever is trying to open the box.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 09:19 AM (EST) 64. "RE: About the Clue Box" Agree.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mindy23 1319 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 04-21-09, 10:06 AM (EST) 67. "RE: About the Clue Box" AMEN! New rule for next season??   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Corvis 3116 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 04-21-09, 01:12 PM (EST) 87. "thoughts" As someone who is half deaf, but has completely assimilated into the hearing world, Margie's reaction to the laughing of the Kisha and Jenn brought back a lot of memories for me. I had it a lot easier than people who are completely deaf - don't get me wrong - but as a kid it did suck be the kid who had to sit on one side of the room and up front so I could hear what was going on. I was different, which is never good in school, and I didn't always hear what my friends said, which annoyed them and I didn't want to explain what was going on because I was embarrassed. Being even partially deaf is a very difficult thing to deal with and having no hearing at all - well, I have imagined it and I don't know how well I would handle it. So as a parent, I completely empathized with Margie and since she has seemed like such a calm person throughout the whole race (as Dweeze and Pepe mentioned), there had to be something to unleash that flood of pain she felt. Does Luke get a free pass because he's deaf? Of course not, but he is deserving of some empathy. Imagine for a minute standing there at the end of the race as Luke. Imagine knowing that only one person there can understand you and trying to explain your side of the story and all the pain you're feeling. Imagine the frustration you must feel knowing that the people on the other side of the argument have no limitation to expressing themselves to everyone there. Imagine the stress you must be feeling just from from participating in this incredibly grueling race. And imagine that this is not the first time in your life that you've had to deal with these frustrations - they are a part of your life every. single. day. Imagine all that for just a minute or two. I imagine I have some empathy for Luke.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

reggie 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 04-21-09, 01:38 PM (EST) 89. "RE: thoughts" Corvis, I totally agree w/ your thoughts on this. Jen had her chance to speak, but they did not allow Luke his chance, as he was not able to "speak" verbally for them to hear. As for the laughing, it may of been from nerves, but regardless, it shows poor taste and a lack of respect for someone else. (and they had stated in the cab that they would laugh in his face, so I think it was on purpose to get under Margie and Luke's skin)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-21-09, 04:18 PM (EST) 90. "RE: thoughts" Corvis, I learned something new about you! Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, feelings and opinions on this matter. I agree and I've said all along that Luke shouldn't get a free pass, yet at the same time, I just want people to be able to keep an open mind and consider the extenuating circumstances behind a lot of actions (not just Luke but others as well). It frustrates the hell out of me when people make blanket statements like they're some kinda expert and then when I try to make some points, it's dismissed as some kind of bogus rule made up on the fly or whatever. Let me tell a story to go along with your ending paragraph about imagining for a minute standing there at the race. I hope my wife won't mind so much if I relate this story, but if she does, I'll gladly sit in her doghouse as she already has a permanent one set up for me in the backyard. It's September 11, 2001, and reports are starting to filter in about the terrorist attacks. Pene works in a government building where website access to news from the outside world is rather limited and there's only one TV on the entire floor (and it doesn't have any closed captioning on it). Pene saw that a whole bunch of people were crowding around the TV and talking amongst themselves. She saw on the TV that a bunch of buildings were in flames and there was an airplane flying into a building -- she didn't realize that this was in New York City or Washington and she didn't realize how many buildings actually were involved but she was seeing all these different perspectives from different cameras so they were all seeming to be so many different buildings to her. She asked a co-worker what was going on and he said "There's been some attacks" and she didn't quite get where they were happening. Is it here in the Toronto area? In the USA? The co-worker wasn't very clear in what he was saying and he kept turning back to hear some more information, so Pene was left standing there trying to make sense of it all. Then she was told by another co-worker that they had ordered all federal buildings in Canada to be on alert and, in fact, one downtown Toronto federal office had been evacuated and all workers sent home. Well... to someone who couldn't hear what people were saying amongst themselves or read any captions on the TV, it certainly seemed like there was something truly massive going on, an Armageddon or something like that. Pene started feeling the pressure, the crush of the world coming down on her, a giant panic building in her -- this was back in the days when we didn't have a Blackberry yet and I didn't have access to a computer that morning to keep in touch with her. She started imagining that something might be happening to her children and with me, and wondered if she'd be able to get out of the building and go home at all. Would she be locked in all day and night or would she be able to get out? Would she even be able to get in touch with me at all? She started having a meltdown and became desperate to find out just what is going on, but nobody was very forthcoming with information -- they all were glued to the TV wanting to hear the latest reports, and they would rather do that than take the time to step away and find a whiteboard to fill Pene in on the news. She didn't find out for another 6 hours or so just the scope of what exactly had happened in New York and Washington that day, didn't even realize that Canada wasn't directly involved in the terrorist attacks until she got home and turned on the news that late afternoon. Now, think back to what Corvis just described about how Luke must have felt standing there on that mat, being unclear just what Kisha/Jen and Phil were all saying while waiting for his mom to relay the info. All he's seeing on the mat is "brak brak brak bitch brak brak brak brak bitch move brak brak." So is it any wonder that a sense of panic or anger might be building up inside him? He's had a sense of control over things most of the way running through all the routes or doing the roadblocks/detours and now here's a moment when that control is taken out of his hands and he doesn't fully get what is going on. So does that make a deaf or hard-of-hearing person a liability in society or whatever people want to call it? Well, my wife Pene has been a government employee for 18 years now and she's been recognized for her excellent service. She's owned four houses and raised four children, the eldest currently a International Baccalaureate pre-university honours student. She's running a home-and-style business on the side that is off to a good start so far this year. And she did all this without being able to lipread or hear at all, being the only deaf person in the whole office, always needing an interpreter just to get by in staff meetings or to meet a kid's school teacher, not always understanding the gibberish a real estate agent is trying to pull over her eyes, etc. I think she's done pretty well with her life even with the obstacles along the way, don't ya? I also think Luke has done pretty well for himself as well as there are not too many Deaf college grads with a degree either - and not just any teaching degree that most deaf people usually go for, but a criminal justice degree. My point in all this? I can completely relate to Luke's moment of panic right there on the mat as Corvis just alluded to and Pene earlier shared about her feelings in trying to deal with bad neighbours. And it does not mean that Luke is a bad person who should stick to his own culture because he needed his mom to relay information during a screaming match on the mat. I personally don't think I'd like Luke very much if I ever met him in person because I've looked through what has been edited on TV and can see what kind of person he is, but he's certainly *not* the villain that a number of people seem to want to make him out to be. Blame TAR for creating a situation where he got left out in the cold, they didn't create a level playing field for the contestants in that case -- whatever happened during the route and at clue boxes is fair game, but the confessionals on the mat is a different story in my opinion. {steps off soapbox and goes off to ask Pene for forgiveness for exposing a traumatic experience for her in this post}   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Corvis 3116 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 04-22-09, 12:32 PM (EST) 93. "RE: thoughts" It's always good to learn more about each other. Thanks for sharing your (and your wife's) experiences, too.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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