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"Producers/NBC manipulating for Dat to win"
Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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07-27-03, 08:34 PM (EST)
 
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"Producers/NBC manipulating for Dat to win" |
I've had my suspicions for awhile that there's been manipulation to make Dat Phan the Last Comic Standing, and it just keeps getting reinforced.The final vote is by the viewing audience. The editing of the show has blatantly painted Dat as the underdog. Most of the personal moments we're shown are the comics criticizing Dat, and I find it hard to believe that's all they did all day in the house. Then there was a commercial on NBC last night, advertising the upcoming episode where the audience votes for the winner. The commercial showed two clips from previous routines - both Dat's. In one, the clip included him saying, "I'm Dat Phan", like they were really trying to remind people about him. They had footage of the other comics they could have used. Cory had to do a challenge, and they showed her face but didn't show one word of a routine. Ralphie did a challenge, but none of his material made it either. And they could have pulled bits from the other comics from their earlier rounds. But no, we saw two of Dat's. I have a feeling NBC and the producers are going to get the Dat victory they want, but ultimately, it will hurt them. I don't see a whole lot of people sticking with any show developed for Dat for very long - even the fans of his standup.  Bebo, Queen of the Backwoods and your American Idol PTTE co-champ
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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07-27-03, 08:57 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Producers/NBC manipulating for Dat to win" |
I totally, totally agree that the producers are very strongly editing things to favor Dat Phan. They've even come off showing Tess's humor in favor of showing her mean-spiritedness towards Dat Phan. The editing of this show from a few episodes back has favored Dat Phan. Also, the four evictees chose who to face Geoff? That's right: DAT PHAN.Having said that... I have a feeling NBC and the producers are going to get the Dat victory they want, but ultimately, it will hurt them. I don't see a whole lot of people sticking with any show developed for Dat for very long - even the fans of his standup. I disagree that it will hurt NBC in the long run. They can still do another "Last Comic Standing". The other comics are still getting HUGE exposure, even that no-good S.O.B. Rich Vos. I also think that we haven't seen the full level of Dat Phan's comedy. I remember after he CRUSHED ( ) Dave Mordal that some of the posters to this board were saying that Dat Phan had no more material. Then he used fresh, funny material to destroy Geoff Brown. And I still don't think we've seen all of Dat Phan's physical humor, therefore not all of his humor. Last, I know some here don't like Dat Phan, whereas I do, but I do beg y'all to consider that Dat Phan wants to be on television, that he is using comedy as his gateway to a television career. The others want to be comics, maybe be writers (see how NBC plugged Dave Mordal for a writing job, using Rich Vos as the shill?). So NBC is helping Dat Phan along towards his *duh* TV career... and NBC is a *duh* TV network. Why am I not totally stunned, here? IMHO, it's still been a good series, and I hope we'll see a "Last Comic Standing 2".  
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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07-27-03, 09:14 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Producers/NBC manipulating for Dat to win" |
They can still do another "Last Comic Standing". I absolutely agree and hope that happens. I just don't think that the "development deal" will amount to anything. I remember after he CRUSHED () Dave Mordal that some of the posters to this board were saying that Dat Phan had no more material. If you're going to quote me, get it right. I said Dat hadn't shown any new material, and I would reserve judgement until he showed he had more to him.
Last, I know some here don't like Dat Phan, whereas I do, but I do beg y'all to consider that Dat Phan wants to be on television, that he is using comedy as his gateway to a television career. The others want to be comics, maybe be writers (see how NBC plugged Dave Mordal for a writing job, using Rich Vos as the shill?). They all want to be on television. They wouldn't have entered this competition if they didn't. The whole point of the competition is to get on television, so that argument holds no water whatsoever. So Dat wants to be on TV, big deal. They all do. And so do most of the 58,000 members of the Screen Actors Guild. I'll be the 70-75% who don't qualify for SAG benefits because they don't earn $9,000 from SAG roles in a year are as deserving of an opportunity as Dat is. Just because we see one quote from one comic who's only been working for 2 years doesn't mean he wants it more than the other thousands of comics who entered the competition. Why am I not totally stunned, here? I'm totally stunned that you think Dat is the only one who wanted to be on television. Just because he says he'd rather be on television than be doing stand-up for a career doesn't mean the others want to be on television less than he does. They're all interested in that development deal, otherwise they would have stayed on the road earning money doing comedy gigs instead of getting shut up in a house for weeks. Yes, the others have been doing stand-up for longer than Dat, but the argument could be made that they are in fact hungrier for the television deal than he is because they've been in the trenches for so long. It's not logical to assume that just because they like what they're doing now doesn't mean they don't want to be on TV. Look at Jerry Seinfeld, Ray Romano, Tim Allen, and D.L. Hughley (just to name a few). All of them enjoy doing stand-up, yet they jumped at the chance to do a television show when given the opportunity.
Bebo, Queen of the Backwoods and your American Idol PTTE co-champ
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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07-28-03, 06:15 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Producers/NBC manipulating for Dat to win" |
If you're going to quote me, get it right. I wasn't quoting YOU specifically. I also said "SOME of the posters to this board". Plural, ya know. So I stand by my statement. I'm totally stunned that you think Dat is the only one who wanted to be on television. Okay, maybe my point wasn't quite made, or maybe I'm being misintepreted here, but either way let me make it clear: Dat Phan wants television roles over comedy. He has said that comedy is a stepping stone to a TV career. By way of contrast, Vos, Mordal and some of the others (I'm thinking Cory) would like to be on TV, of course, but they want to be doing comedy on TV. They don't see their comedy careers as a stepping stone to anything. Ralphie and Tess, I'm not so sure about (I can see Ralphie desiring to be a player on Saturday Night Live, etc.), but they've not said that they consider comedy as a stepping stone. So, to sum up: In other words, Dat Phan sees comedy as a step towards television, the others (at least most of them) see television as a step to enhance their comedy careers. That is my point. If you disagree with it, then that's fine.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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07-27-03, 10:27 PM (EST)
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3. "Disagree, in part" |
The editing of the show has blatantly painted Dat as the underdog.Would you disagree that this has truly been the case? The "alliance" has wanted Dat gone from the beginning. All of their strategy was based on ways to get him out of the house. If they had an alternate plan, they wouldn't have been so stunned when he beat Dave. The truth is NBC is just showing the strategic elements of the show. When it was Sean Kent's week to go, they emphasized his outcast status in the house. When it was Tere's week to go, they emphasized her falling-out with Kory. Ever since, they've been obsessed with Dat. I don't think it's slanted editing, it's just the reality in the house. Most of the personal moments we're shown are the comics criticizing Dat, and I find it hard to believe that's all they did all day in the house. No, but this goes to my point above. You've watched enough reality TV to realize that the editing is always skewed toward the drama of the vote during that episode. Moreso in this case because there is less "house time" to show than in a show like BB or Survivor, what with the challenges, votes, and showdowns. Dat has been the story in the house, no question. To show anything else is to edit the show poorly, IMO. So far he has beaten a nine-year veteran (with great material who had an off night) and a 15-year veteran (who was rusty, but nevertheless got his head handed to him). Don't you think that's the story of the show so far? Then there was a commercial on NBC last night, advertising the upcoming episode where the audience votes for the winner. The commercial showed two clips from previous routines - both Dat's. In one, the clip included him saying, "I'm Dat Phan", like they were really trying to remind people about him. They had footage of the other comics they could have used. Perhaps they are guilty of skewing the audience now, but can you blame them? The only threads on this site about the show are about Dat Phan. Love him, hate him, or just think he's being treated poorly. The minute anyone pays 5-minutes attention to the remaining comics, maybe NBC will give them some facetime. Meanwhile, they're going with the guy who is the show at this point. I don't see a whole lot of people sticking with any show developed for Dat for very long - even the fans of his standup. Maybe, maybe not, but from NBC's perspective, Dat Phan is the most marketable commodity from this show. And the irony of it is that it is exactly because Rich, et al. have talked about getting rid of him for 3 solid weeks. They all want to be on television. They wouldn't have entered this competition if they didn't. The whole point of the competition is to get on television, so that argument holds no water whatsoever. This may be true, and it may not. All we've seen of the "established" comics is their disdain for anything "industry". Dat and Tess are the only ones who seem to care about anything other than stand-up. Let's not forget that part of this deal is the Comedy Central special. I'm not familiar with the particulars of such shows, but they may be more career-enriching than a failed sit-com. There may or may not be residuals involved, but it would definitely help them sell seats at comedy clubs. So Dat wants to be on TV, big deal. They all do. And so do most of the 58,000 members of the Screen Actors Guild. Do they really? Like I said above, they seem awfully cynical about the "business". They mocked Dat to within an inch of his life because he dared to say that he saw stand-up as a stepping stone. If they were like Dat, don't you think they would have agreed with the notion of using stand-up to move to something more lucrative, like TV? I'll be the 70-75% who don't qualify for SAG benefits because they don't earn $9,000 from SAG roles in a year are as deserving of an opportunity as Dat is. Just because we see one quote from one comic who's only been working for 2 years doesn't mean he wants it more than the other thousands of comics who entered the competition. No, but he wants it more than those in the house. Surely you can see that. As for the multitude who tried out and didn't make the cut, I'd be willing to bet that NBC stocked the pond a little. Rich Vos has been doing this for 20+ years. He has a fairly regular gig on Colin Quinn's Comedy Central show. He has a very regular stand-up gig in the NYC area. He has got to be a ringer. The only person who gets comparable facetime to Dat is Vos, and he hasn't even gone on stage yet. Yes, the others have been doing stand-up for longer than Dat, but the argument could be made that they are in fact hungrier for the television deal than he is because they've been in the trenches for so long. It could be made, but I'm not buying it. They haven't acted like a group excited about working in TV. I believe that they are more interested in furthering their stand-up careers. If any one of them had shown interest in the development challenge, I might be swayed, but they didn't. They all treated it like it was stupid. All, that is, except Dat (and to some extent, Tess). To sum up, I haven't seen one thing that leads me to believe that any one of the remaining house guests not named Dat or Tess has the slightest interest in working regularly in TV. For every Seinfeld, there's a stand-up-comic-turned-washed-up-actor. All of them know that. I still believe that they are more interested in getting exposure and potentially a Comedy Central deal, than some unspecified "development package" from NBC.  Fester
Go Dat Go
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Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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07-27-03, 10:44 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Disagree, in part" |
All we've seen of the "established" comics is their disdain for anything "industry". You say disdain, I say cynicism. I'm married to someone in the arts. He's lost the wide-eyed idealism of a Dat as he's had to deal with the realities of his industry. He speaks quite cynically about some of the opportunities that come his way, for a variety of reasons. But he still loves what he does and craves that big break. That's what I see in those folks who've been pounding the pavement for so long in stand-up. They'd love to get so excited about their big break, but they're approaching this like every other job, because they know that so much of it is a crap shoot. Does it mean they want it less, because they don't get that excited about it? No. They know that there is so much about the "industry" that is luck and chance, rather than talent. They can work their butts off, but it doesn't guarantee success. This isn't like "American Idol", where they're plucking unknowns who've been singing in front of their friends and giving them that once-in-a-lifetime shot. For these folks, it's a piece of a career progression. And some of these folks have been pursuing this career for long enough that they are understandably jaded and cautious about putting too many of their hopes on one shot. Bebo, Queen of the Backwoods and your American Idol PTTE co-champ
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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07-27-03, 11:08 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Disagree, in part" |
I hear that, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing. I'm just saying we haven't seen any of it. I get that Dat hasn't been at this long enough to be jaded, but I've seriously questioned why some of these folks are on this show. Vos is the most glaring example, but as I said before, I'm convinced he's a ringer.You're right that we can't presume that these people don't want to be on TV, but we also can't presume that they do. At least not in a "sit-com development deal" kind of way. I'd just like to see some equivocation if these peeps are truly cynics just awaiting their big break. Those in the "alliance" have all acted like something is owed them just because they've put in more time. I think Geoff summed it up nicely when he said this isn't Law School or Med School. Time served doesn't equal success in the business. As to the format of "America picks the winner", I trust these competitions about as much as I trust Congress. They're all frauds as far as I'm concerned, but I don't think the outcome really matters much. The 5 remaining have all gotten good exposure. If it's meant to happen for them, it will. The winner just gets more freebies. Fester
Ralphie's going to win, anyway.
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EnglProf 888 desperate attention whore postings
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07-28-03, 09:33 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Disagree, in part" |
That's what I see in those folks who've been pounding the
pavement for so long in stand-up. They'd love to get so excited about their big break, but they're approaching this like every other job, because they know that so much of it is a crap shoot. Does it mean they want it less, because they don't get that excited about it? No. (I know I'm still a newbie, but...) My question is this: on the whole, don't we generally want the newer, fresher, more enthusiastic person for ANY "job"? Of course we're talking about more than just a job here, but in any situation, it seems that the one who has yet to become jaded, frustrated, or fatigued is the favored candidate. Think of teachers, etc. Yes, the older, seasoned teachers might have more experience, but they've been doing the same thing for years and get lulled into apathy. The long-time comics on this show seem to share this attitude, which explains their impressions that they don't need to rehearse material to make it fresh when they get rusty. Dat is that second year teacher-- he has a little experience, but he's still raring to go and hasn't been at it long enough to let his frustrations get the best of him. In most cases I'd opt for that new teacher who's still excited about engaging his audience, rather than the veteran professor who's heard it all before and isn't nearly as obsessed with impressing or engaging the "crowd" in front of him. I think Dat is obsessed, while the others expect that their experience or their years pounding the pavement will be enough to get them the "job." The teacher analogy isn't air-tight, don't get me wrong. I just want to point out that I (and others who have posted to the LCS boards) have been turned off by what I've seen in the house from the jaded and snide bunch-- Cory, Dave, Rich and Tess and Ralphie. Even though I think some of that crowd are very funny, Dat's enthusiasm and (IMHO) skill has done much to endear him to me.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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07-28-03, 06:23 AM (EST)
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7. "Drumroll, please...." |
LAST EDITED ON 07-28-03 AT 06:24 AM (EST)...because Dawg is going to agree with FesterFan1!!!  I agreed with most of what Fester said. I do agree with Bebo that the editing is deliberately pro-Dat Phan, and for more than just the drama reasons. But I also agree with Fester that the show's progression has been to emphasize that episode's loser (even Mordal). Geoff Brown was almost completely unshown until his "farewell" episode, for example. And Fester reinforces my point: Dat Phan wants comedy to be a stepping stone for his potential TV career, and many of the others want television to be a stepping stone for their comedy careers. Last, agreeing with no one in particular, NBC has made a point to show the "ugly" side of the comedy "industry", and how mean and vicious some of these people can really be.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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cqvenus 9764 desperate attention whore postings
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07-28-03, 01:41 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Producers/NBC manipulating for Dat to win" |
If they do this all again, maybe they will actually play the game with some strategy in mind, instead of always picking on who they perceive to be the weakling, perhaps they should rally together and try to oust the funnier people. But they're all too insecure. This show is a case of picking on the weakest link, or the nerd in class, or whatever, and for that reason alone I cannot stand it.They need to change that. The faceoffs are stupid. It would be one thing if the nation got to vote on them. Maybe if they were live. Something. But, where are they? In a room full of southern californians? Just pulled in off the street? I wonder if they announce to the room where the contestants are from and the whole point of the contest. I'm sure that influences the voting. One more thing: it is unnoble and unimpressive that Dat Phan considers this to be a stepping stone. It would be like going on American Idol when you want to be a politician. Yes, you will be popular. But are you relevant? Methinks: notsomuch. And if VietnameseNailSalon is in the fall lineup, I quit TV forever. That is something I will sign, that is how appalled I am by the skewed display of Dat Phan: Biggest.Milker.Ever ~ cq 
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