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"For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 or 40 years??"
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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06-11-03, 04:53 PM (EST)
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"For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 or 40 years??"

I haven't replayed my tape yet, but did anyone else notice something in the credits about the $1,000,000 prize being payable over some enormous timespan like a 20 or 40 year period of time???

I know they do that with big lottery jackpots, but come on, to do that with a measily $1,000,000 TV show prize is pathetic! What's that value in actual 2003 dollars -- $400k?

-SB

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Saw it too sleeeve 06-11-03 1
 RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... SurvivinDawg 06-11-03 2
   RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... katem 06-11-03 3
 RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... okdebi 06-11-03 4
   RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... Drive My Car 06-11-03 5
 Spoiler? sleeeve 06-17-03 6
   RE: Spoiler? SurvivorBlows 06-24-03 7
       RE: Spoiler? SurvivinDawg 06-24-03 9
           RE: Spoiler? SurvivorBlows 06-24-03 10
               RE: Spoiler? SurvivinDawg 06-25-03 11
                   Present value AyaK 06-26-03 12
 RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... AZ_Leo 06-24-03 8
 RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... SurvivorBlows 07-08-03 13
   RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... PackMan 07-08-03 14
   RE: For Love Or Money prize payable... SurvivinDawg 07-08-03 15
 Bumping... cqvenus 07-08-03 16
   RE: Bumping... SurvivorBlows 07-08-03 17
 Chicago Sun-Times says lump sum was... SurvivorBlows 07-14-03 18
   So... AyaK 07-14-03 19
 Disclosure Statement From First Epi... PackMan 07-15-03 20
   RE: Disclosure Statement From First... SurvivinDawg 07-15-03 21

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sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings
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06-11-03, 05:23 PM (EST)
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1. "Saw it too"
I saw that at the end of the episode, too, Webby. They can take it over 20 years, or as a lump sum at the current value of the $$$.

Basically, they aren't getting a million, and they aren't getting much of a man, either.

Another great show, NBC... keep up the good work </sarcasm>

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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06-11-03, 08:01 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
Yes I saw that. I posted about it on one of these thresds around here.

I think it was a 40 year annuity, also.



Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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katem 3315 desperate attention whore postings
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06-11-03, 08:06 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
>Yes I saw that. I
>posted about it on one
>of these thresds around here.
>
>
>I think it was a 40
>year annuity, also.

This is what I saw as well.

Hey this is still better than just getting Rob


(c) 2002, 03 GeorgiaBelle Creations, Inc. All rights reserved

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okdebi 107 desperate attention whore postings
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06-11-03, 08:27 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
Even if its only $400,000..what great justice though! Perfect ending..Rob thinks the girl is head over heels in love, she takes the money and runs AFTER telling him he's a cad and now Rob is out of work and penniless and still looking for someone to take his boots off. I'm actually almost feeling sorry for him, almost being the emphasized word in that sentence. I mean, the guy must have SOME redeeming qualities..has anyone seen even one?? And catching the grapes in his mouth doesn't count!!
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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06-11-03, 08:34 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
I mean, the guy must have SOME redeeming qualities..has anyone seen even one??

Nope, I haven't seen any. He is icky, all there is too it. He can't carry on a simple conversation, and that wimpy mambly pambly voice of his makes me cringe.

I think NBC was looking for Evan, but failed.

Welcome okdebi! Nice to have you with us. Reality TV World has lots of great forums, hope you check them all out, and have fun here.

Buggy

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sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings
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06-17-03, 01:45 PM (EST)
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6. "Spoiler?"
I've been thinking more about this... would the producers include the fact that the $1 million was paid out over 40 years if someone didn't take the $$$ and run? It seems like if someone took Rob that they might as well just let us all think that the woman could have gotten $1 million in one lump sum.

...just a thought.

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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06-24-03, 09:51 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Spoiler?"
LAST EDITED ON 06-24-03 AT 09:52 AM (EST)

The fact that the money is paid over 40 years is pathetic -- and clearly the women haven't been told this (my guess is that this is the show's final zinger, after they are forced to choose the money or Rob -- which should be an easy choice for any of them.)

40 years is just really insane... think about it, Kelly was talking about quitting her job and travelling -- on what, $25,000 (before taxes) a year??? Not to be morbid, but the winner might not even live another 40 years, someone like 30 year old Erin would be 70 years old when she finished collecting!

The actual present day value of this money must be next to nothing -- these type of calculations have never been my area, but I'd be surprised if it was over $100k (just reinvesting $25k today in savings bonds today would result in $1.6 million in 42 years.)

-SB

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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06-24-03, 12:21 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Spoiler?"
I would suspect that the girls must either take the 40 year annuity or could take a lump sum of considerably less value. It would be like most lotteries are set up.



Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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06-24-03, 12:56 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Spoiler?"
Of course, I'm assuming the same.

What I was trying to say is that the "lump sum" is probably a mere fraction of the million -- from the numbers I've seen in the past when lottery winners have opted to take the lump sum of a 20 payment, the lump sum figure has always seemed to be less than half the initial figure.

Based on that, I'd assume that $250k would be the absolute max of lump sum of a 40 year payment, but given that I doubt the math is that simple, and it's probably not a linear relationship, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the lump sum payment for a 40 year prize is probably closer to 10 cents on the dollar than 25 cents.

-SB

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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06-25-03, 06:23 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Spoiler?"
I'd suspect even less than $250K as the initial startup. I'm being too lazy to figure out the math, but with 40 years of interest building, one could start out with a pretty small amount.



Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
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06-26-03, 07:11 PM (EST)
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12. "Present value"
Since I don't watch this show, I'll let someone who saw where it said that this was $1 million over 40 years post this as a news story.

The present value of an annuity depends upon three factors: the amount of money per payment, the length of time, and the prevailing interest rate used for discounting. For example, right now a 5% rate would probably be the maximum fair discount rate, because you certainly can't expect your money to earn more than 5% per year in a risk-free investment in the current environment.

So ... if the producers are really going to pay out $1 million over 40 years, that means $25K per year. If the first $25K is paid out at once, then it's worth $25K (no discounting). The remaining 39 payments must be discounted at, say, 5%.

The formula for calculating the present value of an annuity is
PVA = a0 + a (1-(1+r)**(-n))/r,

or, in words and filling in the values:
the present value equals the amount of the annual payment paid in time zero (the $25,000 paid out now) plus the following quantity: take 1 minus the calculated value of 1.05 to the negative 39th power, then divide it by .05 (the interest rate), and finally multiply that by the amount of the annual payment each year for the next 39 years.

PVA = $25,000 + $25,000 (1-(1.05**-39))/.05;
PVA = $25,000 + $25,000 (1-0.1491479)/.05;
PVA = $25,000 + $25,000 (.8508520)/.05
PVA = $25,000 + $25,000 (17.01704)
PVA = $25,000 + $425,426
PVA = $450,426


Which makes the total present value of the annuity equal to ... $450,426 AT A 5% DISCOUNT RATE. However, if a higher interest rate is used, then the value of the annuity is less -- dramatically so. For example, if an 8% discount rate were used, then the annuity would only be worth $321,965 -- chopping almost $130K off the lump sum. State lotteries have generally used a discount rate around 8%.

We'll see how cheap NBC is by what interest rate they use.

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
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06-24-03, 10:33 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
Another tidbit (but hardly surprising) I saw in the credits is that they admit the producers are "consulted" in the eliminations. I don't remember the exact wording.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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07-08-03, 10:15 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
LAST EDITED ON 07-08-03 AT 11:05 AM (EST)

Someone in the "mainstream" press finally caught onto this:

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/2327.htm

$800k lump sum seems extremely high to me... no clue what math the person they are speaking with utilized to arrive at that figure

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PackMan 1207 desperate attention whore postings
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07-08-03, 11:02 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
$800k lump sum seems extremely high to me... no clue what matyh the person they are speaking to used to arrive at that figure

All I can say is if NBC offers the 800K, take it! It would equate to about a 1.2% discount rate. More likely they would offer around 320K. NBC has already proven they'll cheap out, so why would you expect them to apply a lower discount rate? As Ayak stated above, state lotteries tend to apply an 8% discount rate (but they also pay it out over 20 to 25 years). I wouldn't be surprised to see NBC apply 10%, which would bring the present value to just under 270K.


Ms. PackMan loved this show. I found that my time was better spent finishing the latest Harry Potter book

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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07-08-03, 11:11 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: For Love Or Money prize payable over 20 years??"
NO way the lump sum is $800,000, especially over 40 years.

That was either a typo, or they got their numbers backward and it should be 1,000,000 - 800,000, or 200,000. That might make more sense.




Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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cqvenus 9764 desperate attention whore postings
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07-08-03, 02:12 PM (EST)
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16. "Bumping..."
"The prize, which totals $1,000,000, is payable in a financial annuity based over 40 years, or the contestant may choose to receive the present cash value of the foregoing annuity," the credits read.

Full Story

I'm bumping this because there is confusion about the money story. Yes, they can take the piddly $25K/yr. OR, they can take the lump sum, which the NYP estimated to be worth $800K (given current interest rates).

So, in the words of Dubya, "Make no mistake"

This girl Erin is a *total* DAW, and now she's going to lose it -ALL- as a result.


~ cq


i can't wait til she's rejected for a cool mil (give/take) by some dumb jackass

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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07-08-03, 02:29 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Bumping..."
Never believe anything you read in the Post... there's no way this lump sum is $800k... that's insane...

NBC is too cheap to pay the mill upfront, but they are suddenly going to payout out a lump sum that is almost double what a state lottery would pay out for a prize that would be due to be paid out in half the time???

I don't think so...

-SB

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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07-14-03, 06:55 PM (EST)
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18. "Chicago Sun-Times says lump sum was $465k"
LAST EDITED ON 07-14-03 AT 06:58 PM (EST)

Long-time TV critic Phil Rosenthal of the Chicago Sun-Times says lump sum was $465k... and I'll believe Phil over the NY Post any day (and that's not just because he had good things to say about us in the past!)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/rosenthal/cst-ftr-phil14a.html

And listen to NBC try and weasel off the hook about how cheap they are:

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/living/6279598.htm

Eagle-eyed readers of closing-credit fine print Monday, when the series concluded, noticed that program rules state the cash prize ``is payable in a financial annuity based over 40 years, or the contestant may choose to receive the present cash value of the foregoing annuity.''

In other words, the winning contestant, Erin Brodie, would have been paid $25,000 a year through 2042 or received a considerably smaller sum, the same sort of payout offered California lottery winners, although the state's payment is spread over just 20 years.

Brodie, 31, instead chose to star in a sequel that begins airing next week, For Love or Money 2, offering her the chance to double her money and claim $2 million -- although, as has been established, it actually would be markedly less than that, unless she wants to wait until she is a septuagenarian to receive it, if she wins.

Representatives at other networks say such a payment system is at best unusual. The couple who emerged at the end of Fox's Joe Millionaire, for example, received a $1 million lump-sum payment. CBS shows such as Survivor and Big Brother also pay their winners just once.

An NBC spokeswoman said the credits accurately describe how the prize is paid and that participants were informed. ``Our understanding is that other prizes, including some state lotteries, are paid out in similar fashion,'' the network said. The program's producer, Bruce Nash, declined to comment.

-SB

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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
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07-14-03, 07:23 PM (EST)
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19. "So..."
The Post story is clearly wrong. The discount rate used to get a value of $800,000 would have to be around 1%.

Assuming the Sun-Times calculation came from NBC (remember, as I pointed out above, the disclosure didn't give the interest rate, so it wouldn't be possible to figure out the true value of the lump sum without more info from NBC)...
It's interesting that NBC isn't quite as cheap as they could have been, since they used a discount rate of just under 5% to determine the present value of the annuity. It's still deceptive to bill it as a $1 million prize, but it's less deceptive than it could have been!

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PackMan 1207 desperate attention whore postings
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07-15-03, 01:01 AM (EST)
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20. "Disclosure Statement From First Episode of FLOM2"
LAST EDITED ON 07-15-03 AT 01:02 AM (EST)

The Disclosure from tonight's episode reads as follows (sorry for no vidcap, but that's not my thing):

Contestants are informed of the rules and must meet eligibility requirements to receive announced prizes.

Portions not affecting the outcome have been edited. The contestants may have consulted with producers regarding their choices and decisions.

The prize, which totals $2,000,000, is payable in a financial annuity based over forty years, or the contestant may choose to receive the present cash value of the foregoing annuity.

The lead participant has been offered a consolation prize in connection with her appearance if she does not receive the $2 million grand prize.

So regardless of the outcome, Erin will be getting something. The question is what will it be? I also like the second statement where itís disclosed that the producers have a hand in the decisions. At what point does this show just become categorized as a soap opera and moved to daytime TV?



If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to find time to do it again? - Anonymous

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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07-15-03, 06:25 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Disclosure Statement From First Episode of FLOM2"
Yes, they also made it clear at the beginning of the show that Erin would receive a consolation prize at least. In fact, I wondered if that was dubbed in when I heard it (I was pouring a drink when I heard it, so I didn't see the TV screen).

I'm guessing Erin will walk away with no less than about $200,000.




Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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