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"Notes on S24"
iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-22-12, 02:15 AM (EST)
 
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"Notes on S24" |
As JP so enthusiastically pointed out, this was the first all female F5. However, of course, there would have been an all female F5 in Micronesia if Erik didn't win immunity. As much as the female alliance has gotten a bad rap through the years, in actuality, an all male F5 would be a much more ground breaking phenom. There has never even been an all male F4. In fact, through 24 seasons of Survivor, there has only been an F3 of all men once- S21, where Fabio beat Chase and Stash. However, that is partially only because two of the women from that season quit postmerge. 
My Kind of F5
Christina looked incredible in the finale, especially at the IC with her hair to the side. Her entire edit was based off the F4 TC. A sham, in my opinion. She was completely right. What argument could she make that the F3 didn't already know? When Kim booted Alicia instead of Chelsea or Sabrina, she made her intentions clear. Christina said that after her personality almost got her booted at the first TC, she went UTR to stick around. Believable if you've seen any of her interviews; she will hardly shut up. I would suggest that the biggest move of the game actually goes to her. Who else formed an alliance with their biggest enemy? Now THAT is a big move, and something that we've rarely seen. Even though the finale was predictable, it still was well done. I liked the confessionals from all the remaining players at the beginning, as well as the ones by the F3 after the penultimate TC. I still don't get why the editing waited until the finale to let us know about Sabrina being laid off or Kim's divorce. Reminiscent of last season. If the players aren't talking about such things earlier, ask them to. I don't know how Chelsea could have come off any more honorable or lovable than she did in the finale, from her opening confessional to her words at FTC to Tarzan. Truly a beautiful woman, inside and out. Like Alicia said, "Chelsea will be just fine." Most pathetic run of ICs that we've ever seen, by the way. The final IC would have actually been to the advantage of a man, if they could have made it there. Height and arm strength both helped. For the FTC, I was pretty impressed. Jonas was hilarious. Hahaha... best start of a FTC ever. And the hypocrisy and bitterness was all at a minimum. Of course, that was no surprise with 3 likable players at F3. We've already learned that lesson: you can lie and betray all you want in Survivor, just be nice while doing so. Props to Kat for maybe the best FTC speech of all time. Jeff said S24 was a letdown. No surprise since the One World concept didn't work as it was supposed to, and every boot postmerge except Kat was utterly predictable. However, the seasons with the most dominant winners typically are predictable postmerge. It is called having complete control of the game. Personally, I love to see the game masterfully played, and when you combine that with likable players, you have a great season for me.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-23-12, 09:13 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Nice notes.
Just two comments: I don' think the ICs were much different than most seasons.
Are you sure that Jiffy's letdown isn't simply due to a woman winning?
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-24-12, 00:13 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Hahaha... wow, that is doing an awful lot of reading Jeff's mind. I didn't know you two were so close!If you don't want to see a woman win, than Micronesia is the ultimate season that you would not care for. That was not just a woman winning. That was not just 5 women eliminating all the men. That was women playing men like idiots and acting pretty superior while doing it. So, no, I am not willing to say Jeff is more likely to favor a season when a man wins. Not because it is a man, anyway. It is possible that Jeff favors a certain type of game, however, and the game he favors is more likely to be played by a man than a woman. He has said there have been more memorable male players than women.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-12, 10:44 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Notes on S24" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-24-12 AT 10:47 PM (EST)To be a memorable player, you need a good edit and editors always had trouble editing strong women. Take Jacque in Gabon. Maybe you don't even remeber her yet she had a lot of strategy going: She was as close to Marcus as Charlie was AND she was close enough to Ace and Sugar that Sugar showed her the idol. All of that went on the editing room floor and we barely got a peep from her.
So, it's a catch-22: The editors rarely create good characters for women and Jeff loves big characters so he favors the males.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-26-12, 07:44 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Yeah, Gabon does not rank as one of the more memorable seasons, although it did produce a dominant and well-deserved winner. Granted that's not saying a whole lot given the subpat cast, but I believe Bob was the first ever to win Survivor AND the 100K Fan's Choice award. A feat accomplished by only a few...most recently Kim this season.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-26-12, 07:34 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Notes on S24" |
"He hated Marquesas and Guatemala which had no pagonging and big blindsides."
You're right about Marquesas. I believe Hunter was the only blindside that season.
I don't have an exact ranking offhand, but I'd put Guatemala in my top 1/3 of all seasons. Actually I recall a fair share of blindsides that season... BLAKE - Riding high off his newly given nickname "Golden Boy," he figured the rest of the tribe thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. He never knew what hit him as Jeff read his name and snuffed his torch. BRIAN - I guess every season has that player who thinks they're the best to ever be casted for Survivor. That was Brian in Guatemala. At TC everyone took turns paying this guy so many compliments you'd swear he was able to walk on water. Instead they send him walking out of the game. BOBBY JON - The concensus going into TC was it was Gary's time to leave. One glitch--Gary plays the first Immunity Idol in Survivor history. As a result, whoever was to leave that night would a blindside victim. BJ was the victim. JAMIE - I remember Jamie even saying the word "blindside" when Jeff snuffed his torch. JUDD - The most memorable blindside of that season. Except the word Judd chose to use was "SCUMBAGS!"
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-27-12, 04:22 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Notes on S24" |
People put a lot of weight on that coconut chop challenge but the Rotu4's plan was revealed much earlier than that: When they voted Gabe instead of Sean or Rob. That made Kathy, Paschal and Nelleh realize that Rotu wasn't a tribe anymore, that the 4 had a deal and they started thinking of eliminating them then. Kathy almost went with Rob to eliminate John but Rob was too shady and he scared her off. The next round made it easy when the Rotu4 were overthrown by the 5 outsiders.Marquesas is the best season, strategy-wise, before Amazon. In all the other seasons, one player (Hatch, Tina, Lex and Brian) imposed their strategy to the whole season but, in Marquesas, many players had their hands on the wheel. The F4 purple rock fiasco and Kathy's loss in the FIC ruined the end but, besides that, it was a great season.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-27-12, 05:19 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Gabe got voted off because he was a moron who put a bullet through his own head. Roto, led by John, brought Gabe in to discuss their desire to oust Rob. I can't remember the exact words, but Gabe replied with something to the effect of he didn't want to talk strategy because he wasn't there to play the game...he's just there to embrace the Survivor experience.
Translation: Vote me off NOW please!Given that factual exchange, I would not interpret that as "Roto not being a tribe anymore." If anything, it was solidifying the Roto tribe by eliminating wishy-washy Gabe. Paschal, who was close to Gabe, was not happy when he discovered Gabe was voted out. But they did have a merge and it was explained to Paschal why Gabe was voted out. He (and alliance partner Neleh) appeared OK with the explanation as Roto joined together to vote off Rob at that TC. Even if Kathy went with Rob to vote John it wouldn't have matter. I know you'll disagree, but I feel if not for the coconut chop RC, Sean would have been the next one voted off.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-29-12, 00:14 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Marquesas quickly went downhill after B-Rob was booted. Yeah, there were a bunch of players in the mix. That's what happens when you have mediocrity- parity. It had the most boring F2 of all time. The coconut chop was the final nail in the coffin for Rotu. Unfortunately, that gambit was really only good for a one time use, but that hasn't stopped it from being used again and again. Axing Gabe obviously started the downward trend for Rotu, but John was in a tough spot there. michel, I'm sure you know that in Survivor, if you aren't with us, then you're against us. John could have easily interpreted Gabe's denial of game play as meaning that he was actually with Rob, Sean and V, or considering it. Gabe going the other way splits the tribe evenly into halves of 4. Like B-Rob would later do with Matt, John saw eliminating Gabe as the easiest way to guarantee a Rotu majority in the new Rotu. It definitely sent a signal to Paschal and Neleh that the old Rotu alliance was dead, but I wouldn't say it was a mortal error from which there was no recovery. A final alliance of 4, as we have seen, is vulnerable. If John would have recruited Kathy into a F5 deal, then they don't need Paschal and Neleh at all.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-29-12, 06:13 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Gabe wasn't against anyone and you know it. In fact he was solidly with John when it came to winning challenges, providing food and building the shelter. He was willing to be used. That is the perfect ally.Comparing this situation to what Rob faced in Redemption island misses a key difference: John had a post swap tribe, meaning he had 3 easy targets to boot. "The easiest way to guarantee a Rotu majority in the new Rotu" was by booting a oldMara'amu. Can't be easier than that! Also, about Morono's decision to boot Matt: Do not confuse a huge gamble with sound strategy. It worked in RI for Rob but his taste for gambling is why he won only on his fourth try. As for:
"If John would have recruited Kathy into a F5 deal..." Besides Rob and Sean, Kathy was the last person John could have manipulated. He needed Paschal and Neleh, thought he had them but they had been worried since the Gabe boot.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-30-12, 00:48 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Notes on S24" |
This all makes me want to see Marquesas again.I am into discussing past seasons. So, let's have at it. I am not overlooking the differences between what Rob and John did. I am just pointing out the similarity that in both cases the bootee was of questionable loyalty and had the ability to make a tie. We both know Gabe was loyal, but in Survivor, when someone is questioned about their loyalty and they respond by saying they aren't playing the game, it is typical that trust is lost. John wasn't sure of Gabe's loyalty, and as you like to point out, he was closer to the situation than we were. As I like to point out, is Gabe going to force a tie? Unlikely, but John saw an opportunity for an easy advantage and took it. Really, it is also similar to what Kim did with Michael. Michael was a Salani, but she knew members of her own tribe were willing to boot him. So she took advantage of that to get him. It could have caused the same paranoid reaction in Troy and Jay. In fact, it partially did. Fortunately for Kim, Jay was a fool who was probably as entranced with Chelsea's smile as anything. And lastly, it didn't take his 4th try to win. B-Rob won the biggest prize of anyone in his second try. >
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-12, 02:34 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Notes on S24" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-30-12 AT 02:35 PM (EST)Marquesas (S4) was maybe the best season of them all, the high point being when Kathy successfully formed the misfit alliance to turn the tables on John's Rotu4 alliance. The problem with Gabe was simply that he hated the game. He loved the adventure, gave 100% in challenges, was great in many respects and likeable, but he wanted to be a nice guy, didn't care for plotting and planning, didn't want to lie, couldn't be deceptive, and so on. Keep a guy like that around and he may eventually break ranks and start voting based on who he likes, or more precisely who is actually playing the game and doing things he doesn't like. By all rights RobM, Sean or Vecepia should have been voted out that time, they were burdonsome (though Vee didn't mind doing some work) and New Rotu didn't have to be concerned about preserving challenge strength. But Gabe basically wanted out so his wish was granted. One of the deciding moments in Marquesas came in the episode after John was blindsided. Pappy and Neleh were really on the fence about continuing with the misfit alliance and Tammy was nearly able to reconcile with them. But Robert "the General" blew it by acting childish and having basically a hissyfit about the Rotu4 being knocked down, after that Pappy and Neleh were solidly with Kathy to send Zoe, Tammy and Robert to the jury. Unfortunate blemishes in Marquesas came at the end. The dreaded purple rock knocked Pappy out of the game, though that turned out to be fortunate in that the old guy was on the verge of collapsing from dehydration. And, of course, the two finalists were lesser players, Kathy really was the one clear winner had she made it to FTC.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-30-12, 06:02 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Notes on S24" |
Production admitted afterwards that the purple rock was a mistake and that the fire building challenge should have been used there. Since then, we have seen player after player avoid the purple rock as a matter of idealism rather than "face the arithmetic" and use the purple rock when it is warranted. Can anyone explain why o why the "most votes formerly cast against" tiebreaker was removed? That tiebreaker made perfect sense. It added more strategy to the game and made all votes cast against a negative thing. >
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-30-12, 09:24 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Notes on S24" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-30-12 AT 09:26 PM (EST)I remember Sean being lazy and not liking people because they actually worked. He also spent all game insisting he wasn't in an alliance with Vecepia even though they voted the same in every single TC. In other words, your classic Survivor hypocrit. He did have the famous "Cleopatra" comment though. What is the problem with ties? I think they have it wrong. Now, they are trying to find anyway they can to reduce pagonging. Well, if you had a tiebreaker system that people were actually willing to use, then maybe you'd have someone actually willing to force the tie and change the power structure of the game. A minority could vote for one person at TC, and then it would be easier to get someone to jump over and force a tie, knowing that the person voted for in the last TC would be going home. Or the minority could use that vote to get the person they voted for to jump over, saying we'll force a tie and you'll be going home. It gives the minority another weapon against the majority, thus helping the cause against pagonging. As far as the time it takes for JP to read all the votes, just EDIT it quicker. THERE YOU GO. >
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-12, 09:56 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Notes on S24" |
I thought Sean and RobM being lazy in New Rotu, expecting to be waited on and stuff, was a hoot. Let's understand, they knew they were in the minority in New Rotu, that lifting a finger to help out at camp would probably do nothing to improve their chances should they have to go to TC, so they just wouldn't do any work unless it was something they could have fun with.Jonas at least enjoyed preparing the food, cooking, feeding people, he took pride in what he could accomplish. Didn't help him one bit in the game, but at least it was work that made him happy.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-31-12, 08:54 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Notes on S24" |
I was about the say the same dang thing. B-Rob and Sean didn't do any work on their original tribe either. However, I've always said that B-Rob was a terrible follower, great leader. He couldn't lead while Hunter was in the game so he just sulked. After they got rid of Hunter, there was no reason to change. He was able to lead the next three times he played, and given the leadership role, he became a much better player, person and worker.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-31-12, 10:14 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Notes on S24" |
The best players can follow or lead equally well depending on circumstances and the people around them.
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