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"Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 04:38 AM (EST)
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"Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-11 AT 04:43 AM (EST)

Ah... after a somewhat tedious journey, the majority of the Surviverse sleeps with a smile and perhaps an emptiness finally filled as Boston Rob wins the title he so richly deserved 14 seasons ago. Yes, the execution was so flawless, his competitors left so clueless and powerless, the conclusion so inevitable, that one could say this was the most predictable and thus devoid of drama season of them all. Perhaps. But this season had what 21 others didn't. It had one of Survivor's most entertaining and best players at the absolute top of his game. And in the end, it had REDEMPTION.

After H vs. V, I listed in the Best Ever thread Sandra, Parvati and Rob Mariano as the three best players of all time. Many questioned a player who had never won being in that company. This season eradicates that argument. Yes, it took 4 seasons to create the player that we saw here, but during the Reunion Show I think Rob and Andrea very astutely explained what makes Rob the special player that he is. It is the ability to make personal connections with people as different as Natalie and Phillip.

I normally erase most Reunion Shows immediately after watching them, but I might keep this one around for a while just to see Rob celebrate with Amber and the girls. How awesome. Amber is looking better than ever. Marriage is so difficult; it is really cool to see them still together and still very much in love. I would have liked to take bets on that 14 seasons ago.

Perhaps, as I suggested, bitterness IS dead, per the vote, but it certainly wasn't during the FTC. I wonder now how much, like everything else, people are just acting for the cameras. I can understand Zapatera being bitter for the way they were treated post-non-merge, but where do they get off calling the F3 deceivers and liars? The Omes did nothing more than stick with their tribe, same as the Zaps would have likely done if the situation was reversed. The only people who had any reason to act betrayed were Grant and Ashley.

And where did Julie get off? She knew Natalie for what? 8 or 9 days? She had no business trying to tell Natalie what her mother should think of her. Pathetic. Tell your sanctimonious BS to Lex's mohawk.

Mike, how much did MB pay you for the infamous how-did-Survivor-change-you question? Great answers by everyone, BTW. Wish you would have won the Fan Vote, buddy. You deserved it. Rob didn't need it; he already won $2 mil from the show. And Matt didn't need it; he is a good Christian and the meek shall inherit the earth.

Steve, thanks for a juror with some graciousness and a reality check. Hilarious remarks to Phillip. Lay off the chronic, though. Pretty obvious. Or screw it.

Ralph- an idiot to the end. When did this love affair with Phillip begin? Who knew??

David, with every other advantage Rob had in the game, did he really need his lawyer at FTC as well? Wow. Great speech. Reminded me of Erik's monologue in Samoa, except his was moronic while yours was brilliant. Props.

Redemption Island AGAIN?? Wow. I'm guessing they made that commitment before RI failed so blatantly this season. Second only to the Outcasts as the Worst Twist Ever. May I suggest an HII to be found on RI?

A balance beam challenge at F5?? Come on, now!! I guess that's less biased than the put-an-arm-above-your-head challenge, but it is a little late for such an unfair challenge (never mind the advantage the guys had at F3 in Vanuatu and Thailand).

I know people are saying Coach vs. Phillip next season, but I am going to say two women come back this time. I know this would only happen in my dreams, but how about Laura and Brenda?? Pretty please?

>

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-16-11 1
   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... mindy23 05-16-11 2
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-16-11 3
           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... Skiver 05-16-11 5
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-16-11 9
 RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-16-11 4
   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... Skiver 05-16-11 6
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-16-11 7
           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... sportsjoe 05-16-11 8
               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-16-11 10
                   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-16-11 11
                       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-16-11 12
                           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-16-11 13
                               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-17-11 14
   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-17-11 15
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-17-11 17
           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-17-11 23
 RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... kidflash212 05-17-11 16
   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-17-11 18
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... sportsjoe 05-17-11 19
           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-17-11 20
               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-17-11 22
                   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-17-11 24
                   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-17-11 26
                       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-17-11 28
                       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-18-11 29
                           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-18-11 30
                               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-19-11 37
                                   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-19-11 38
                                       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-20-11 39
                           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... michel 05-18-11 31
                               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-18-11 32
                               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... garyc 05-19-11 36
               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... Toban 05-18-11 35
   RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... dabo 05-17-11 21
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... sportsjoe 05-17-11 25
           RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... iltarion 05-17-11 27
               RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... sportsjoe 05-18-11 33
       RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption I... PepeLePew13 05-18-11 34

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 07:00 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

Have to give Phiilip credit for his unique way of dealing with critical jurors.

Otherwise found the close of this season so dull, after a promising beginning, I went to bed early. If they bring back anymore repeat competitors they should only bring them back as a team (fans vs. faves) or in an all stars format.

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mindy23 1319 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 10:24 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Not sure he would even consider it, but I'd like to see Matt have ONE more chance at actually PLAYING the game! Would love to see him come back with new faces and see where he goes from there.

Otherwise, can't think of one other person on either tribe I would want to see again. Talk about bitter grapes from Grant! Geez, you knew it was a game going in, after all, you've been playing games most of your adult life! So how different is Survivor?

It's not like you get your 6.5 mil up front in a contract, dude. You have to prove yourself all the way through. Guess you forgot about that, huh? Sorry, dude. Get on with your life, and new wife, and maybe someday you'll understand why Rob did what he felt he had to do....

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 10:46 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-11 AT 11:16 AM (EST)

Actually, I don't think it was bitterness over the move. Grant voted for Rob. I think it was the actual first couple episodes of the show that turned Grant off. It isn't that hard to believe. I don't think Grant would ever say the things about people that Rob blithely expresses. I don't think Rob's Good-Will-Hunting brand of sense of humor would work well with Grant. In other words, I think JP was wrong. I think Grant and Rob are a lot different and wouldn't naturally be friends. I think Grant realized this after he saw what Rob was saying behind everyone's back.

My original post was long enough, but I would add that one of my favorite moments of the finale was when Rob talked with Natalie about his FTC experience from All Stars. I have always said that Rob was emotionally thrown off by his "friends" being so bitter at that FTC, and that instead of apologizing, he should have stood his ground and told them off. It was great to see him realize the same thing.

Oh, and one last thing, Russell, way to be the same @ss-clown we've all come to expect at the Reunion. It may be hard for you to believe, but you aren't the first person who ever had a challenge thrown so that you could be booted. Why should this guy ever come back again?

>

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Skiver 1118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 11:44 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Thank G that the outcome was the right one. Although it was unlikely the jury would find a way to give it to Philip or Natalie, there were votes that were nearly that crazy in the past - like Clay getting three votes in the final vote of Survivor 5, despite Brian playing as dominant a game as Rob in this season.

My favorite moment from this year's final TC - aside from the running joke of Philip dressed like an impoverished Indian Chief - was the self-same Dances-With-Underpants telling Julie to 'Go To Hell' - repeatedly. An unorthodox way to address a member of the Jury, but an extremely gratifying thing to witness.




Sig by Cygnus X1

"There's an old saying in Texas - maybe it's a saying around here as well; Fool me once, shame on... Shame on you. Fool me twice... Can't get fooled again." - GW Bush

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 08:06 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-11 AT 08:52 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-16-11 AT 08:27PM (EST)


Think you're being too hard on Grant, Mindy. He was an NFL player where the biggest goal of most players (at least most players claim it is) is to win the Super Bowl. That's a team goal; not an individual one. He's probably had team first drummed into him from the time he started playing sports. Doesn't quite fit on Survivor. Expect he wouldn't come back because he would recognize he'd probably never enjoy doing the things Rob did (e.g. make final TC alliances with everyone in his alliance). Or come back with an attitude adjustment.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 11:37 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
What I liked first and foremost about the season was that it showed to Russell that you can play the game hard and still win. Or, it should have shown him because I don't think he has the intelligence to realize that it is his game that is flawed.

The difference between Rob and Russell can be summarized this way: Rob builds a team and then decides how to break it apart. Russell first tears the tribe apart and then tries to put back some pieces together around him.

Steve told us what the cameras didn't show: They decided they couldn't wait to lose a challenge because Russell kept going to some players and saying "we need to vote so and so out" then he'd go to those others saying they had to vote the first ones out. He tried to divide and conquer but, without trust first, it doesn't work. It only creates animosity and you can't win votes like that.

Rob always goes for trust first and then he mostly lets things break apart naturally, just giving a push here or there. The vote against Matt was a bigger push than usual but it wasn't out of the blue. his tribe understood why they were voting against Matt so they were all in on it. Note that Rob even talked to Kristina first before deciding she had to go. He even offered to distract the tribe to give her a better chance to look for the idol.

If building a team, including the most players possible, and then deciding how to break it apart is the best way to play the game then, by that standard, the best players ever would be Tina, Tom, Danni, Earl, Todd and Rob.

This season was boring mostly because both tribes broke into alliances of 6 very early on and only Matt's elimination was a surprise. Then the merge was just a prolonged pagonging. Merging at 12 is great when you have divided tribes but when they are solid like this, it would have been better to keep them apart and let them tear each other apart a bit more. Better in the sense of entertainment but this season was textbook on how to play the game: The players don't owe us entertainment, they are only concerned with winning. I appreciate a good game.


Laura vs Brenda? It is by far a better choice than what we will certainly get. Unfortunately, Survivor would never choose two women but maybe one of those two. Although Andrea and Ashley wouldn't be bad either. I was impressed by Ashley's end game. Giving Rob a scare is no little feat!

My favorite returning players from an entertainment point of view would be Dave Ball and Bob Mason. If Bobdawg is too obscure for the average fan to remember, then I'd say Shane. For strategy: Marty and David.


Ils sont fous, ces Romains!

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Skiver 1118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 11:55 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Tina? Really?
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 01:58 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-11 AT 01:59 PM (EST)

Absolutely: Tina was inside Ogakor's alliance of 5 before the original trek to camp was over.

Once in camp, she didn't want to receive any votes because they were the tie-breaker, so she became close to Mad Dog and Keith. Tina had everyone except Kel around her. Then, when Jerri's strategy was going to lead the tribe to disaster, Tina decided how the vote would go down: She saved Keith and got rid of Mitchell.

At the merge, she got Rodger and Lis on her side so that enabled her to form a new alliance that excluded Jerri and Amber. Tina was in control all along.

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sportsjoe 61 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 03:18 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
He deserved to win because he was able to corral a bunch of people and have them follow him like lemmings. I said all along the person who was able to get him voted out should win. Of course no one stepped up cuz they were too stupid. The girls knew he had an immunity idol but chose not to blindside him earlier when he didn't expect it. Seriously where did they find these ##### dumb people. Rob did play a perfect game but he had willing followers that made it alot easier. Did anyone on Ometeppe ever watch Survivor before, lol what a joke. They're gonna bring back 2 prior players again for the coming season. Combine that with moronic RI and the stupid HII and maybe Survivor jumped the shark. After this last season that was the most predictable and one of the worst seasons ever, I may have watched my last episode, sadly.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 08:51 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
As no one was likely to beat Rob in a vote, the three women might have targeted Phillip (thinking Rob was safe playing his idol) at final five and then hoped one of the three could beat him in the final four challenge. Don't think Natalie was willing to go against Rob though, and not sure (from her TC comments before being voted out) Ashley realized this was likely her last chance to save herself.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 10:10 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
There was a problem though: Natalie knew she couldn't beat Andrea and Ashley. She knew she needed Phil and a bitter jury against Rob. Ashley probably knew it also. By going against Rob and Phil, she'd lose those votes while Andrea had bonded with the folks on RI. RI is a stupid twist which is equivalent to letting one player sleep in the jury house.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 10:42 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-11 AT 10:45 PM (EST)

True, but she had even less change against Rob. Hearing her answers to the jury at final TC she seemed to know it too. Agree that if Andrea had convinced Ashley and Natalie to vote out Phillip and Rob went next Andrea would have been the likely winner. The biggest benefit would have been to make the finale more interesting.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-11, 10:57 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

michel pretty much already covered this, but the problem with that grand plan was Natalie. She was more loyal to Rob than Ashley.

Rob mentioned it at the Reunion, and I wonder how much, if any, of a role it played. He said that he was a good guy to take to the end because no one would vote for him anyway. It is possible that Grant, Ashley and Natalie all believed this at least until they got close to the end, when it became too late to do anything about it.

Natalie had it right that she had a guarantee to the finals as long as both Rob and Ashley were in the game. It is possible she hoped that as long as she just got there the jury would be impressed that someone her age could make it. Obviously, she underrated the cynicism of the modern day Survivor jury.


>

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 06:49 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Natalie did say (I think during questions from the jurors) that she considered voting against Rob at final five but figured he had the immunity idol. Whether she was serious or just trying to convince jurors that she was playing the game I'm not sure. Rob looked pretty surprised though when she said it; like maybe I misjudged her and am lucky I'm still here.

As to why she didn't. Not sure. Perhaps it was just that she felt more loyalty to Rob than to Andrea and didn't think beyond that. Or she might have wanted to take as few risks as possible and figured Rob was the surest way to final TC. Between having the II and winning the final four IC Rob made it easier for her to follow orders.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 07:08 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Not so sure that the Ometepe didn't build their team around Rob because of his reputation for being very useful around camp and in challenges. Think early on this season most of the other Ometepe's were willing to follow his lead because he got things done; would help make their stay more comfortable and give their tribe the best chance to gain a majority. By the time his allies realized how under his thumb they were, they were completely under it (i.e. Grant's fear of accepting more than one piece of food from Zapatera.) A benevolent dictatorship.

Still think the biggest difference between Rob and Russell's games are Russell's bragging and his willingness to break boundaries to get an advantage turning off other players and viewers.

Do think Rob learned from experience to tone down his game a little so that others would see his game playing strengths rather than his willingness to toss anyone overboard to win. Certainly several of the Ometepe appeared surprised to find out he would do that. They seemed to be unaware he had been placed on Villain's for a reason. Maybe the contrast with antagonist Russell made Rob appear better than he actually is.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 08:01 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
>Not so sure that the Ometepe
>didn't build their team around
>Rob because of his reputation
>for being very useful around
>camp and in challenges.

It wasn't only reputation: He showed right away that he'd be very useful building the shelter and that he'd give everything in challenges. There is only one way to build team unity, in Survivor and in sports: Winning. A losing team will always be in discord sooner or later. Besides giving away the tarp, the other stupid thing about Zap throwing the challenge wasn't momentum but giving Ometepe the sense that they had a team. Steve should have known that.


>Still think the biggest difference between
>Rob and Russell's games are
>Russell's bragging and his willingness
>to break boundaries to get
>an advantage turning off other
>players and viewers.

The biggest difference between Russell and any winner is the social skills. As for my comment about Rob building up his team and Russell breaking it apart, it is exactly how we saw their last 3 seasons play out.

>Do think Rob learned from experience
>to tone down his game
>a little so that others
>would see his game playing
>strengths rather than his willingness
>to toss anyone overboard to
>win.

But he learned that in the first All-Stars. Morono started out as one of the laziest players himself back in the days of Marquesas. His willingness to toss anyone overboard was first experienced by Hunter and it hasn't changed as Matt saw. That is the way to play. If you wait, you will get tossed.

Certainly several of
>the Ometepe appeared surprised to
>find out he would do
>that. They seemed to
>be unaware he had been
>placed on Villain's for a
>reason. Maybe the contrast
>with antagonist Russell made Rob
>appear better than he actually
>is.


If you are playing Survivor, even if you are playing with a cast full of newbies, you should consider that everyone could be ready to do just that. To be surprised that someone is playing the game is like saying a football "player" would be surprised that a linebacker didn't stop before smashing him to the ground. You aren't playing football if you don't expect to be tackled.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 07:31 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Agree with your last point except to note that Survivor isn't a board game. You are living with these people day in and day out. Relationships, friendships, do develop and it could be difficult for anyone, especially first time players, to tell when someone is being sincere, or simply using them. One of the advantages Rob did enjoy this season. (And Russell too.)
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kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 07:54 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
"...perhaps an emptiness finally filled as Boston Rob wins the title he so richly deserved 14 seasons ago."

It was a long time ago, so I might be remembering this incorrectly but in his original season wasn't Rob out early - before the merge or just shortly after? I wouldn't say he "richly deserved" to win that first time around. In his first all stars, definitely - Amber's win was just jealousy and bitterness towards Rob.


Capn2patch put me in motion!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 08:08 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
22-14=8!
Survivor has been on so long that Marquesas is 18 seasons ago.

But I object to the richly deserved even in @ss. He said it himself: He screwed it up.

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sportsjoe 61 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 09:00 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
The only reason Rob guaranteed Natalie a spot at the end was that he knew he could beat her easily. That's why he also kept Philipp around and took him to the final. I'll give Natalie credit for being loyal, but if she had half a brain, she would've realized she didn't have a prayer at final tribal. Her excuse is lame though for sticking with Rob. She knew he would take her to the final, but she should've realized she had no chance of beating him. If you're happy going to the final without having a shot to win, to each his own. They handed the million to him on a silver platter. Lol I just don't get how each of them thought they could beat Rob at final tribal. Or maybe they really were that stupid. Have no sympathy for any of the idiot ometeppe followers who had no clue what they were doing out there.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-11, 10:46 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-17-11 AT 10:47 AM (EST)

Rob was fortunate to have a crazy like Phillip on his tribe. If he has to take 2 OTHER people to the Finals, things could have been dicier. The only mistake I would say Ashley and Grant made is that they never got rid of the goat. Without the goat, one of them were going to the Finals, where they would have had a chance.

Ashley might have came within 5 seconds of winning the game. So, she deserves more props than criticism.

I just think Natalie had to play the Natalie-from-Samoa game to win. There wasn't any other way she could do it. So, she had to hold tight to Rob and hope he ticked off enough people to give her the win. Her only mistake was not playing the social game with Zapatera, like Natalie (Samoa) did with Galu. She made no connections with the jury, and thus, they felt no empathy for her.

The only Omes I would have complete derision for their game are Matt and Andrea. They both had their great chance, and they blew it. They could have been the power that Rob predicted IF they would have stuck together. Instead, Andrea HELPED Rob secure his power while clearly sitting at the bottom of the Ome6.

I believe I had said that before, but michel is completely right, Russell destroys his tribes while Rob empowers them. Rob knee-capped his tribe in Marquesas and paid the price. The ONLY reason Russell's game worked either time was because of the HII. Period. Without it, he is the first boot postmerge both times.

This is why it is such a joke that Russell would rant on about how stupid the Zaps were to get rid of him. I could find a quote from all 3 seasons he was on where Russell said he didn't care about the numbers, that he didn't need numbers. This is a guy that would boot the most important person in his tribe in a heartbeat if he felt that person was a threat to him. He is exactly what the Zaps considered him- a cancer. Throwing a challenge to boot him is probably the only time that maneuver is a good strategical choice.

Momentum in the game is only as good as your last challenge. The Zaps WON the challenge after booting Russell. The key turning point was when Stephanie blew the puzzle against Rob. That was the challenge they should have won. But even if the Zaps take a 6-5 advantage into merge, don't throw a challenge, Stephanie jumps to the other side to play with Rob, Matt sticks with Ome, and the Zaps are screwed anyway.

I also reiterate for the last time that the Omes absolutely whipped through the Wheel of Drowning challenge. It probably wouldn't have mattered if the Zaps tried to actually win it or not. They would have lost anyway.

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05-17-11, 07:29 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
"This is a guy that would boot the most important person in his tribe in a heartbeat if he felt that person was a threat to him. "

As would Rob most likely.

And Russell played a game that was not about the tribe, it was about the alliance; a three or four member group. Perfectly valid way to play as he proved in two straight seasons. What wasn't valid was the bragging and bullying, which destroyed his own chances to win while gifting victors to members of his alliance.


Zapatera was behind before Stephanie got a chance to play in that challenge.

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05-17-11, 07:40 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

Zapatera was behind because Stephanie was too busy chiding Ralph to keep up. She was the caller. Still, she made up enough ground to beat Rob on the puzzle. Like Ashley, she just faltered in the last minute.

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26. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
>>"This is a guy that would
>>boot the most important person
>>in his tribe in a
>>heartbeat if he felt that
>>person was a threat to
>>him. "

>As would Rob most likely.

You are perfectly right. Everyone should do that, but the difference is in the manner: Rob tries to help the tribe, build a shelter and provide food which helps win challenges.
Russell doesn't care much about the shelter or the food. He is playing individually from the start.

Rob's way is much better to reach the merge with numbers. Also, Rob's way is much better to earn votes. Why? Because those that are a threat to him can be portrayed as being a threat to the tribe and its cohesiveness. Those that are threats to Russell are threats to him personally. He has to force everyone to vote them out. That creates resentment.

>And Russell played a game that
>was not about the tribe,
>it was about the alliance;
>a three or four member
>group. Perfectly valid way
>to play as he proved
>in two straight seasons.

First, I object that Russell is about alliances. He's about Russell Hantz. All three times, Russell aligned with those he could, those that remained, not those he really chose. If it had been up to him, Ben would have stayed in Samoa and no one but Parvati and Danielle wanted to be with him in HvV. Rob, in all his seasons, was able to unite a majority around him. That's an alliance.

Second, Russell and Foa Foa reached the end because Galu destroyed Galu. In HvV, he needed Tyson's huge mistake to take over the game. Even then, he needed idols each time. His luck ran out in Nicaragua. Valid way to play? Lucky, really.


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28. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

Like I said, take Russell's idols away and now what? How hilarious is it that RALPH found the HII instead of him? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


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29. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-18-11 AT 06:45 AM (EST)


"Also, Rob's way is much better to earn votes. Why? Because those that are a threat to him can be portrayed as being a threat to the tribe and its cohesiveness. Those that are threats to Russell are threats to him personally. He has to force everyone to vote them out. That creates resentment."

Exactly what Rob did to Matt, who was what the 2nd Ometepe out, why? Because Rob thought Matt and Andrea working together could be a threat to Rob winning. This at a point in the game where no one could tell which team would prove stronger in challenges and when players who contributed less like Natalie and Ashley were kept safe because they were no threat and despite Rob admitting that neither of them did nothing around camp.

"First, I object that Russell is about alliances. He's about Russell Hantz." And Rob was about Rob. Fair enough. It's an individual game for everyone as only one player can win but its a heck of a lot easier to get to the end if you are in an effective alliance. Both Rob and Russell have proven able to do this. And both have proven able to take advantage of available opportunities. Biggest difference is Rob is likeable, Russell isn't.

Is Rob the better player. Sure. By a comfortable margin. He's better at challenges; more useful around camp and appears much easier to work and live with. But it's not like Russell is a bad player. Matt was a bad player.

"Like I said, take Russell's idols away and now what?" It wasn't about idols when Russell got Tyson to vote himself out of the game. You can say it was about Tyson's stupidity and that's fine. But Russell was able to take advantage of Tyson's stupidity. Rob was able to take advantage of the inexperience and naivete of several of his tribemates this season.

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30. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

The only reason Tyson went home was because a HII ricocheted the vote to him. Yes, that was a good play by Russell, no doubt. But it had EVERYTHING to do with an idol. Without any idols, Russell is the 2nd villian voted off of H vs. V.

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37. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-11 AT 07:31 AM (EST)

Without idols and without his scheming and aggressive approach. He did make a lot of good plays his first two times playing. He had no shot this time because his reputation preceded him.

For me this entire season was about the different reactions the two tribes had to the returning players. Was what happened to Russell undeserved. Probably not, though I'm not convinced throwing a challenge was worth it to get rid of him. Was the faith that some of the Ometepe placed in Rob's word underserved. Probably though at least some of that is due to how well he plays.

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38. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

This is, again, kind of in line with what michel has been saying, but I said all along that I agreed with Ometepe's approach to Rob premerge. The guy is a boon for a tribe. He is great around camp. He can build things. He can make fire. He is great in challenges, and he knows how to bring a tribe together. I would have hung onto him too, until the merge. Once it becomes an individual game, then get rid of him.

Russell is actually the opposite. He is death for a tribe, but he is a good guy to be aligned with once it comes down to individuals. For one thing, if you make the end, you can beat him!


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39. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-20-11 AT 07:29 AM (EST)

Can't disagree. Russell's reputation is so bad at this point I doubt he would make it to merge if he came back again. (Which is fine; doubt Survivor was originally intended to feature multiple appearances by players.) And if Rob changes his mind and does play again any players on his tribe with hopes of winning would be smart to move him out before merge. Both Sandra and Parvati made it to the end without him.

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05-18-11, 07:35 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
>
>Exactly what Rob did to Matt,
>who was what the 2nd
>Ometepe out, why? Because
>Rob thought Matt and Andrea
>working together could be a
>threat to Rob winning.

This is from Ashley's interview:
Ashley Underwood: And as far as the initial Matt blindside, I mean, that was brought up upon by me, Grant, Natalie, and Rob. That was not just like a one person thing.

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/andrea-boehlke-and-ashley-underwood-talk-about-survivor-12295.php

This is what I meant: Rob was able to present it as a tribe decision. Take Russell's vote against Marisa: It went against what many in the tribe wanted. So much so that Mick didn't vote along with it.


>And Rob was
>about Rob. Fair enough.
> It's an individual game
>for everyone as only one
>player can win but its
>a heck of a lot
>easier to get to the
>end if you are in
>an effective alliance. Both
>Rob and Russell have proven
>able to do this.

But none of Russell's alliance should have been effective. They were always outnumbered and succeeded by a series of event out of his control. That's the difference I have been pointing out. Rob also had luck but he had much more control.

>>But it's not like Russell
>is a bad player.
>Matt was a bad player.

Matt could have won a jury vote. Russell never could! Yes, Russell knows how to get to day 38 better than many but he is clueless on day 39.

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05-18-11, 10:36 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"

Great interview. Kind of reinforces the idea that the people in Rob's alliance believed they could beat him in a vote. They all actually wanted to get to the end with him. Hard to blame Ashley and Andrea because they might have been right.

Its cute how Andrea obviously still likes Matt. Pretty cool that she is so honest about it rather than what you'd expect.

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36. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-11 AT 07:24 AM (EST)

Not entirely out of his control. You can't attribute everything to opponents foolishness.

Only reason Matt would have had any chance to win was because he was on RI most of the season where he didn't have to help vote out opponents. Much harder to resent someone who defeats you in a challenge.

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35. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
I agree with everything you said except regarding Andrea. Her decision to ditch Matt after the merger was primarily because he threw her under the bus by outing their plans to Rob. How could she trust such a wishy-washy player like that? After that, she had very few options especially considering that Ashley and Nat knew that Rob had the idol. Plus those two refused to abandon Rob.
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21. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
Rob was the merge boot in Marquesas, but what had messed up his Godfather game then was the tribal switch. Well, and his original tribe couldn't win a challenge for anything. He was popular enough that he was one of only two pre-jury boots to be invited back for All-Stars (the other being Shii-Ann, the faux merge boot).
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05-17-11, 08:17 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
I'll get over the fact that Boston Douchebag won it all. He's the only one that deserved it so enuff said. But seriously if any Survivor crewmembers are listening, Redemption Island is stupid along with the idol. Changes the game way too much and gives too much power to one person. If you're gonna have an idol, it needs to be hidden well like when it was first introduced way back when. They should really have to earn that idol and if it isn't found so be it, tough luck. The idol really has turned into a joke. Hiding clues in the reward, cmon. Oh yea, don't be bringing back any former players. How bout doing a better job finding contestants who know how to play and not afraid to take risks. Anyone else have any ideas for upcoming seasons?
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27. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-17-11 AT 09:11 PM (EST)

Right on, S-Joe. I guess they probably don't want to put the HII at RI because then it would be just like Exile Island. But really, that makes the most sense. Give the returnee some chance of lasting past a vote or two.

I would say the obvious and just junk RI altogether, but since we already know S23 will have RI, it is useless to go down that road.

Since we are in the well-known players to have never won category, how about Cirie and Amanda come back? Hahaha... I know, half of the Surviverse would start puking on queue, but I would be down with it. Like Rob, Amanda has a lifetime pass in my eyes, and heck, I might even vote for Cirie this time around.

How big of a target would be on their back now after what Rob just did?

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33. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
You would think there would be a big target on their backs. But look at the last season. There was never a target on Rob's back. But I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
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34. "RE: Boston Rob Redeems Redemption Island"
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-11 AT 09:56 AM (EST)

>Rob was the merge boot in
>Marquesas, but what had messed
>up his Godfather game then
>was the tribal switch.

A big part of Rob's boot in Marquesas was because he treated some of the Rot-Us with a lack of respect, so it didn't take long for them to target him after the merge. Remember when he and Sean sat around, "ordering" Tammy around to get a drink for them? His ego got in the way then. As well, Rob reneged on his word to John Carroll and when he found out, he confronted Rob and that's why Rob was the first boot after the merge (instead of Sean, for example).


ETF "after the merge" instead of "after the boot"

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