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"The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"	03-03-11, 01:49 PM (EST)
"The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"
Obviously, the majority of the Surviverse is in elation at finally seeing Russell shown the fricking door last night. Of course, Redemption Island still keeps the puke in the game, but we can forget that for now. Regardless, this result begs the question: is throwing a challenge still a bad move even if it means getting rid of Russell? A very good question- this. With the answer only to be known at the end of the season. I have been stalwart in the opinion that throwing a challenge is ALWAYS a strategical error, besides the fact that it also robs the viewer of potential entertainment. That, however, is certainly debatable. As could have been pointed out to the little mouth that could, Stephanie, Sandra won PI after being part of a tribe that threw a challenge (though she was actually against throwing the challenge), and Ozzy, of course, made FTC and came within 1 vote of winning after throwing a tribe challenge. So, it isn't like history comes down decidedly on one side or the other. Just as a numbers game, and a game that can always throw a twist at you, intentionally reducing your numbers seems like a no brainer bad move. However, as pointed out last night, was Russell really a number? If you can't count someone as a number already, then there doesn't seem to be a downside to booting them out. I think certainly in this case, removing Russell could actually be an addition by subtraction. In fact, at this point, should Zapatera consider doing it again to get rid of Stephanie? Perhaps. I think it is already clear that she would jump into any alliance that would allow her to burn the majority of Zapatera. So, since she can't be counted on as a number herself, why not do it again and jettison her as well? Even if you go into the merge even or down two people. All you need is Andrea or Kristina still being around to swing the majority back to you. I found Stephanie's rant about numbers funny considering the first time Russell went into a merge, he was in a 8-4 minority, and of course, considering that Russell himself has said "screw numbers." I also found it humorous that Jeff would try to imply that voting off "this great player" would hurt the tribe. Hahaha... voting off the biggest tribal cancer of all time could hurt the tribe?? Good one. >
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 03:14 PM (EST)

1. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

At this stage of the game throwing a challenge is a very risky gamble. Later on in individual rewards maybe there are some you don't want to win because that would put you in position to decide who gets to eat and who doesn't, stuff like that.
But team play is about building a solid team and Zapatera was a very divided tribe, even with numbers at the merge a savvy solid team could come in and pick them apart by exploiting those divisions. So, there is some sense to it, but it is still bad form. And Zapatera still seems a divided tribe, there's no telling how they might reshuffle now that Russ is out of their hair.

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crs3192 122 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 04:00 PM (EST)

2. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

The division as of last night, though, was everyone against Russell, Stephanie, and that blonde girl (whose name I still don't know - sorry!). Now, we'll just have to see about what happens within Zapatera now that they don't have the common goal of getting Russell out. I don't think Stephanie has enough power to really threaten the tribe, but they could try to get her out too before anyone else. If Julie had switched sides, it would be one thing, but really - the tribe didn't see any more divided than Ometepe!

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SquidProQuo 2281 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 04:32 PM (EST)

3. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Good discussion. I thought it was interesting that Jeff Probst usually jumps all over tribes that throw a challenge, but in his Q&A with EW today, he seemed to leave the door open that in this particular instance it might have made sense:
EW: Is throwing a challenge ever a good idea, because I’ve never seen it lead to anything good?
JP: "The biggest risk in throwing a challenge is you give the other tribe confidence and often momentum. It’s leading by fear and it’s not a strong way to play Survivor. I do understand the reasoning. If you let someone like Russell stick around he could form a strong alliance and take over, or you could go to the merge with too many people and the people on the bottom decide to flip. Can’t say it’s always a bad idea, but agree with you, I’ve only seen it backfire. Maybe this time will be different."

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sportsjoe 61 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 05:53 PM (EST)

4. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

LAST EDITED ON 03-03-11 AT 05:55 PM (EST)
DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD LOL. Just watched last night's show, bout ##### time. When you throw a challenge you risk giving the other team momentum and confidence. History has shown that it may hurt you or go in your favor. In this case, they did the right thing by voting out the cancerous Russell. If you keep him around he only divides the tribe more and manipulates to his advantage. Even if somehow, the other tribe goes on a winning streak, it is still worth it to get rid of a scheming player like him. And if they lose again they can get rid of his little lapdog ##### Stephanie. I don't think the blonde can formulate an opinion on her own, so she isn't to worry about. But remember, she can fly under the radar like Natalie did, and not make any enemies, and get the votes at the end. I applaud that tribe for playing smart and having the balls to vote that ##### out. Let's see if the other tribe has the smarts and guts to do the same thing to ##### Rob. Maybe when they see that the other tribe voted out Russell, they will wake up and smarten up, tune in. I hope he gets his ##### kicked on RI lol.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 07:06 PM (EST)

5. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Iltarion, I have to remind you (and Jeff btw who says he's never seen it work) that Ethan won Africa after throwing a challenge. Malakal, led by your darling Amanda, Ozzy and Cirie threw a couple of immunity challenges after the switch and both women made it to F3.
All this to say that throwing a challenge to get rid of someone that you cannot trust, while risky, can be beneficial. (Galu should have lost a challenge or two to get rid of Shambo and Monica). And I think your guy Rob opened the door to Russell's boot by eliminating Matt. Zappa had absolutely no fear of Omy's strentgh so getting rid of surplus weight was the thing to do(or should I write surpus?) We don't have to wait for the rest of the season to know that it was a good move. As long as Omy doesn't go on a winning streak, we will know losing one challenge didn't kill Zappa. Something else could but that wouldn't prove anything.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 07:45 PM (EST)

6. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

I am aware of that. I didn't feel like mentioning every time it has been done. Anything from Season 3 remains in antiquity for me.
>

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 09:41 PM (EST)

7. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

LAST EDITED ON 03-03-11 AT 10:05 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 03-03-11 AT 09:41 PM (EST)
Thinking it was probably a bad idea for the reasons usually given. Ommy doesn't know it won because the challenge was thrown. What if they gain confidence and start winning challenges. Eventually Zapatera would have lost a challenge. Seeing how united the six voters were agsinst Russell they would likely still have voted against him then.
Put another way, in Heroes vs. Villains Rob's alliance had not seen Russell play, underestimated him and it cost them. This time the alliance, likely having seen him play twice, overestimated him and it may cost them. Even Russell has to have something to work with; either an II or a weak link on the other tribe/alliance like Shambo or Tyson. Of course, if they had known one of their own people had the II, they might have been less worried. One reason to have let them know who had it.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 10:04 PM (EST)

8. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Two big problems with that:
1- What if there's a tribal swap and a couple of the Zap6 wind up on a tribe with Russell and his two girls?
2- The deeper in the game you let Russell go, the more his goat status becomes attractive. Julie was tempted to go with him during episode #3, imagine if it had been episode 5 or 6.
Besides these, Zap is still stronger than Ometepe.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 10:06 PM (EST)

9. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

You can't predict everything. And future challenges may be less about strength. Ometepe still has the best puzzle solver.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 11:00 PM (EST)

11. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Because you can't predict everything you have to get rid of those that are against you as soon as possible. Marty could have easily controlled Jimmy T last season but he got rid of him instead of Jane. Was that smart? One missed opportunity is often all it takes.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 07:56 AM (EST)

14. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Marty didn't end up in trouble just because Jimmy T was sent home instead of Jane.
Not to get back into this again, but I do think Russell was an effective player for his alliances in previous seasons; especially Samoa. But he's hardly survivor superman. Don't think getting rid of Russell should overshadow any other strategic considerations. That's giving him too much respect. Especially when you control both the numbers and the II. Not it would have helped if the rest of the alliance knew they had the II.

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-11, 10:14 PM (EST)

10. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

I normally would not recommend throwing a challenge to get rid of anyone since that gives momentum to the other tribe, but I would certainly have been tempted to throw it to get rid of the Troll. You can't keep him around for very long, especially since I also agree that the Troll is a cancer for any tribe he is on, so that would be another reason to yield to temptation and throw a challenge. Heck, that was one of the reasons Aitu threw the challenge in the Cook Islands -- Billy was lazy as heck and he tried to pit Cecelia and Cristina against J.T. and Ozzy. That action solidified the decision to get rid of him. So I can't really yell at Zapatera for throwing the challenge as hard as I might have otherwise.

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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 01:08 AM (EST)

12. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

I thought the same thing when I watched the episode tonight. If I had been on this season, I would have balked at the idea of throwing a challenge for the same reasons that Jeff mentioned. But the more I thought about it, the more sense it made.
As you said, Russell isn't really a number when he is either trying to foster dissention in his own camp, or chomping at the bit to get to the OTHER tribe and flip on his own the day after the merge. So a team with 6 solid members going into a merge is IN FACT stronger than a team with 6 solid allies and 3 ~~potential~~ guaranteed flippers.
I rolled my eyes when Jeff stroked Russell, too. Sure, Russell is a dangerous player. He found HIIs like NOBODY before him. And he schemed as well as anyone. But I am convinced that he stayed as long as he did largely because everyone who had a legitimate chance to get to the end WANTED to take Russell because he is the ULTIMATE player to face a jury with. Would Hitler have been able to win Survivor if he was sitting next to Russell? Maybe not, but it would be a much closer vote than Russell would want to admit. In fact, can you think of any Survivor player from ANY past season that you would rather take to the final TC with you than Russell? I can't. Nobody who has played with him can stand him or respect him enough to vote for him. And I am convinced that is the reason he survived as long as he did on those two previous seasons.
If there was ever a time to throw a challenge, this was it.

Agman resized my siggie

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Addi 26 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 10:41 AM (EST)

16. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

The fact that Russell is the best person to take to Final Jury is precisely why they made the right move and booted him early. He becomes more attractive as numbers start to dwindle and folks start thinking about their end-game.
I was was singing as he was walking out..... ding dong the *itch is dead the wicked *itch is dead....
Now lets hope he stays that way!
Go Boston Rob!!!

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 02:17 AM (EST)

13. "The Problem With Russell"

Russell is an extreme case, the problem with having him in the game is basically that he is a bully. Ultimately he hates everyone, even those closest to him. He's unremittant, even after losing twice he kept insisting the problem wasn't his game but the game itself. Hateful, nasty, vile, he trashes everyone around him.
He's smart enough to keep most of that to himself and reveal it only in confessionals, but in all this time the only people who have earned from him any respect are those he viewed as most like himself. He'll knock you out of the game for that, because he has to be the biggest baddest bully on the block, but you have confirmed his mean, bleak worldview and he respects you for that.
So if you are in the game with him you have two choices, put up with him knowing he cannot win or get rid of him as soon as you can so you can play the game without the annoyance.
This Redemption Island twist, however, creates another prospect, because you cannot absolutely get rid of him even though you can sideline him out of the tribe. I don't think highly of the RI twist but, as I joked in the voting thread this week, it makes it possible to turn someone like Russell into a punching bag.
Send him to RI. If he gets back in the game, send him back to RI. If he gets back in the game again, send him back to RI again. Repeat as many times as needed. If for no other reason than turning the bully into a punching bag might earn you some mite of his respect.
And, perversely enough, RI is really his only chance of winning the game. If he can get to the end of the game having spent the majority of the time on RI he won't have made as many enemies on the jury as perhaps the others who make it to Final. So, really, you're doing him a favor turning him into a punching bag, it's a good thing.
Practically saints them Zapsixers, by gum.

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sportsjoe 61 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 09:39 AM (EST)

15. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

I think Russell is as smart as Rob, but the difference is, he plays the game by bullying and it finally caught up to him. I think it's interesting to see the girls that team up with him. Are they like that in real life where they can't make a decision on their own?

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 11:56 AM (EST)

17. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

LAST EDITED ON 03-04-11 AT 05:51 PM (EST)
Russell is nearly sociopathic in his inability to empathize with people. He is very intuitive at guessing people's strategy, but he is clueless on their feelings. Rob is not like that. Even when he torched people in All Stars, he knew what he was doing. He had a very hard time handling the backlash at FTC, which is part of the reason why he lost and Amber won. Rob knew Andrea would resent him, and he tried to address that with her. Russell would not have bothered. It is beneath him in his own mind.
Russell undoubtably chooses alliance mates who are vulnerable. People are understandably most vulnerable right when the game starts because they haven't yet formed the alliances to protect themselves. As such, Russell always moves right away. He spots who hasn't already made an alliance and swoops in. He projects confidence, which is attractive to anyone lacking it. Woman are typically more vulnerable at the beginning of the game than men because men think they will be kept around to help win challenges.
Obviously, he also wants someone who isn't going to argue with him, preferably. I think those factors and Natalie's demure nature is what led him to start his alliance with her and Ashley in Samoa.
Danielle was an outsider on the Villians tribe and shares some of the same traits as Natalie, though she proved to be more fiery by the end. Parvati was not Russell's ideal alliance mate, but she was also a vulnerable outsider due to the fact that everyone else was targeting her.
As for Krista and Stephanie, we have the rare situation where the older players actually outnumber the younger ones. Obviously, Sarita and Julie are separated from them by age, and surprisingly, there really aren't any fawning young men for them to latch onto either. As such, they really were on the outs from the beginning and made an easy target for Russell. Ironically, I actually think Stephanie would have been a first boot for Russell, like Marisa was, if it wasn't for the fact that she knows who he is and is in awe of his game. Otherwise, she is not the kind of girl to just take orders.
>

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 05:48 PM (EST)

18. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

Yeah, at least Rob is able to recognize that people have feelings and don't like being kicked when they're down. Troll just doesn't seem to realize (or care) about the social game.
And you may have something in your analysis of Troll's alliance partners. His favorite partners tend to be women, or at least are people who are vulnerable in some way. Although Jaison and Mick probably aren't ideal alliance partners for Troll, they were vulnerable by the time of the merge. And it helps if you haven't seen his game -- or if you are in awe of it. If you've seen his game and aren't impressed, like me -- don't bother.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 06:54 PM (EST)

19. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

"Russell undoubtably chooses alliance mates who are vulnerable. People are understandably most vulnerable right when the game starts because they haven't yet formed the alliances to protect themselves."
That's not quite accurate. In Samoa, Russell's true alliance was with Ben, Jaison and Mick. The dumbass girls weren't considered part of his group, just dummies who would vote the way he wanted. He showed his idol to Mick and Jaison, not the women. His next two seasons, his alliance mates weren't by choice but by necessity. His interactions with Galu and later Coach, Rupert and Colby told us that he will align with everyone and everything that will listen to him.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 07:21 PM (EST)

20. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

Russell's alliance on Day 1 was with Natalie and Ashley.
He booted Ben, though reluctantly. He also considered booting Jayson.
He didn't consolidate anything with Jayson and Mick until he had something over them., namely the idol. Russell didn't show Natalie and Ashley the idol because he didn't need to. They were already under his "protection."
I wouldn't say Russell was ever in an alliance with Coach and Jerri. He simply used them to make a move, and they used him to advance further, or so they thought. John, same thing.
Day 1 alliances for Russell: Ashley/Natalie, Parvati/Danielle, Krista/Stephanie.
True, necessity had something to do with it, but it would be pure naivette to believe this is coincidence.
>

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 08:55 PM (EST)

21. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

Wonder if the Zapatera six, in throwing a challenge to vote out Russell, have not only removed him from this season (barring a miracle return from Redemption Isle) but have removed any incentive for bringing him back in subsequent seasons. If any tribe he is placed on throws a challenge (not good for survivor removing the competition from a competition) the first time they consider it safe, simply to remove him from the game, what's the point of including him?
Unless perhaps Jeff and Co. finds a tribe perfectly set up for Russell.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-11, 10:48 PM (EST)

22. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

We can only hope, garyc

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-05-11, 03:23 AM (EST)

23. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

Wer saw Russell making deals with everyone on day one in Samoa including not only Natalie and Ashley but Betty and Marisa. He gladly booted both when they showed they weren't docile. He did the same thing with Mike, Mick, Ben and Jaison. It was more than reluctantly that he booted Ben, he simply didn't have a choice. When Laura came over, he made a "we're both good christians" deal with her. When Shambo showed she was alone, he made a deal with her. When John listened, he made a deal with him. He did the same with Monica, Dave and Brett. The only person he never approached seemed to have been Kelly. She must feel so rejected!!!!

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sportsjoe 61 desperate attention whore postings
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03-05-11, 08:23 AM (EST)

24. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

Let's just hope this is the last of Russell and Rob in future shows. On a side note, another reason why Rob is still playing and Russell isn't, is that Rob is useful around camp. He can build a good shelter. And he is also good at challenges. I would suspect his tribe is keeping him around as a tool, like the tool he is. If you're winning challenges and staying away from tribal with him, then it's worth keeping him around. If they lose a couple of challenges in a row, then I think his worth has lot his value. Get rid of him before it's too late.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
03-05-11, 10:32 AM (EST)

25. "RE: The Problem With Russell"

Hope so about Rob, but so far looks like many of his Ometepe tribemates are a little in awe of him.
Not sure how much work Russell did around camp in previous seasons but he was pretty good in challenges. Think his main problem was (is) that he showed a willingness to do things to win that many other players would not do; and combined that with mean spirited (dumb blonde alliance, etc.) comments about his own allies to the camera. Players just didn't (and don't) like or trust him. (There might also have been some resentment from player's whom he outsmarted.)

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-11, 10:11 PM (EST)

26. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

The biggest bit of evidence I've had thrown in my face when I stated that throwing a challenge is always a bad idea is Ethan and Mama Kim. The difference? This was to get rid of an enemy from another original tribe, a.k.a. it was post-swap. Throwing the challenge was useful to gain numbers.
In this case? Absolutely a dangerous move. For one thing, as spotty as Russell's performance is at camp, his performance in challenges is pretty solid. Also, on the other team? Oh yea, this guy called Boston Rob. What's to say Ometepe doesn't get back into it? Morgan did. Old Aitu had NO jurors and only got Ozzy to the end based on his inclusion in what might be the most successful underdog alliance ever.
Also, Russell may be a dangerous player, but he's a paper tiger who's playing the same game he did in both Samoa AND Heroes vs. Villains. He's predictable. Getting rid of him removes a constant from the equation. It also keeps him from being forced to play in a situation in which he's unfamiliar - that of a dominant tribe. Foa Foa merged down 8-4 and dominated. The Villains merged even with the Heroes and walked all over them. If Zapatera merges with a four-player advantage over Ometepe, all of a sudden, Russell's lost in a sea of tribemates with no idol to save him. Especially with Ralph holding the idol. Better to toy with him and cut him loose when your tribe's strength doesn't depend on numbers than to throw a challenge and risk your advantage, all the while keeping seven other possible wild cards whose game is somewhat unfamiliar around.
Zapatera's going to regret voting off Russell. If Drake keeps their boot on Morgan's throat, they may merge up 7-3 or 8-2 and even partially prevent the debacle that was the Outcasts, Osten is even more pathetic, and the final is all Drake. If Aitu decides to let Billy live and cut his throat later, Hiki likely has to ditch someone, Billy eventually digs his own grave, and the original Aitu make their way into a few higher places. Also, they may not have to deal with Yul quite as much. Also, almost forgot Sook Jai - could have kept stomping on the old guys. But they screwed it up, and the repulsive Chuay Gahn tribe dominated.
Make a note for future winning tribes: Koror didn't throw challenges.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-11, 11:03 PM (EST)

27. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

But Koror did try to throw the last challenge to get rid of Coby except Coby won it on his own. And, if we are considering things from the point of view of everyone except Tom, then Koror should have thrown a late challenge to get rid of him before the merge. Tom didn't even participate in the last 3 or 4 ICs so Koror didn't need him anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't but they should have if they wanted to beat Tom.
That being said, I disagree that Zap should have let an outsider stick around to the merge. With Matt voted out of Ometepe, Zaperata didn't need Russell's strenght anymore and we don't know if there will be a swap. It's very possible to imagine a swap where Russell would have kept his 2 girls, gained Kristina and Andrea who would be desperate for an alliance. He'd have the majority over Steve, Ralph and David for example.
You have someone that is against you, you have to get rid of him. The Villains missed their chance when they voted out Randy, Zap didn't miss theirs.

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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03-12-11, 02:10 PM (EST)

34. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Koror tried to throw a challenge to get rid of Coby. Do or do not. There is no try. Frankly, the way they did it - getting rid of him immediately post-merge - was a better way to go. Better to deal with the devil you know than with a devil you don't.
That said, everyone knows Russell's game. He's insanely predictable. Zapatera chose to hate him to the point of gambling the entire tribe's future on getting rid of him when there are a million better moves than that. No one knows, say, Ralph's game or Stephanie's game. Russell, based on two seasons, is an open book. So why not deal with him - especially when he's totally useless without idols - and use his strength instead of someone who's less valuable in challenges? Or at the very least, decimate Ometepe a la Ulong, vote Russell out when you get a chance a la Coby, and don't act like a bunch of arrogant jerks about it? Lording power over a minority is usually a very risky idea.
Could Koror have gone farther if they threw the last challenge and bumped off Tom? Maybe. But let's not kid ourselves - Tom was an absolutely dominant force in the game. Koror had two chances postmerge to get rid of him - and he didn't even gather a stray vote, let alone the boot. And it's not as if the rest of the tribe wasn't kicking around the idea of voting him off. They could have done it. They had the numbers. They had Tom right where they wanted him. It would never have worked. Tom's game was too solid.
If someone's against you, get rid of him - but don't ruin your tribe's chances to do so. Bide your time, wait for the tribe to lose a challenge or go to a double TC, and then vote off the bad guy then. Don't create a situation like this, especially when situations like this usually come up anyway.
Zapatera booted Russell because they knew his game. Does anyone really think no one on Ometepe ever watched Survivor? People go to Russell because they need to. It most likely would have been a similar situation - Russell's up a creek without an immunity idol, which Rob and Ralph had.
Russell's not going to win this game. It's that simple. Zapatera wasted a bullet on him. Even worse? Now, to Stephanie and Krista, he's the toppled dictator who was their leader. Zapatera, judging by the previews, has created two new Russells. And his proteges might just be more effective. Worse than that? Rob's playing a Russell game, too. The obvious, popular choice was getting tid of Phillip, who's weak, ineffective, annoying, and lost Ometepe two challenges. If my team were down 3-1 in a best-of-seven because one guy blew it both times, I'd bench him so fast the bench would be dented. But Rob, serving his needs and his needs alone, kept him. The tribe will capsize, and Rob will gain a lot of resentment. No one ever won Survivor being resented, except against someone people resented more. Rob, of all people, should know this.
Russell said he would live on in this game. He may be crazy, but in this case, he's right.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
03-12-11, 02:44 PM (EST)

36. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Russell is delusional and a poor sport.
Oddly enough the biggest danger of Russell in this game was never mentioned. If he and Rob both got to the merge and then decided to join forces they would be unstoppable.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
03-12-11, 04:14 PM (EST)

37. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Colonel, besides the fact that I'd never agree with you that Russell is predictable, the funny thing about your argument is that you keep repeating that Russell was no threat without the HII. This, of course, continues to ignore the fact that no one on Zap knew Russell didn't have the HII except Rooster. In fact, their actions showed quite the opposite was true: they believed Russell DID have the HII. So, reframe your argument, this time with Russell HAVING the HII. Now do you think moving against him was a mistake?
I would say that "the move" is looking pretty dang smart right about now. Russell is gone for good and Zapatera is still the stronger tribe. Stephanie and Krista were against the Zap6 even before the move, so no difference there. Better to have 2 against you than 3. And much better having 2 with no HII against you than 3 with the HII.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
03-09-11, 03:56 PM (EST)

28. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

The problem with playing into Russell's paper lion game is that everyone else can as well. It's simpler not to bother. Whatever distracts you, consumes your energies (mewntal, emotional included), it is simpler to just get it out of the way.
Drama queens, for example, demand a lot of attention. For them it is a good thing if you consume a lot of energy on the drama, it distracts from your game, allows them more room to move. But if you have no use for a drama queen, or it is only useful as entertainment, you really should just consider eliminating it from the game.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
03-09-11, 04:38 PM (EST)

29. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

I think the Colonel makes some great points, and I'm down with Koror as the model to be followed.
However, none of those prior mentioned tribes, including Koror, had RUSSELL on them, which skews the comparison. Even if he is playing the same game, I would never call Russell predictable. The only thing that is predictable about him is his willingness to do everything and anything to move on.
In H vs. V, B-Rob thought he had a safe majority of 6. They failed twice to take out Russell. Next thing you know, Russell gets two of the majority to vote with him, and now he has the majority.
Another somewhat unmentioned factor is that only Rooster knew Russell didn't have the HII. Having a 6-3 voting advantage gave the Zap6 the perfect opportunity to boot Russell and take out the HII. They needed to take advantage of that.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
03-10-11, 07:18 PM (EST)

30. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

One of the reasons given for calling this "the wrong move" proved to be wrong: Rob didn't get any momentum. In fact, which tribe missed their guy most? Matt would have been very useful with a saw in hand.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
03-10-11, 08:20 PM (EST)

31. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Rooster could not be beat. The last person you want to meet in the backwoods would be Rooster with an axe or hammer in hand.
Matt is definitely missed though.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
03-10-11, 08:27 PM (EST)

32. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

Looks like Ometepe should consider throwing a challenge to get rid of Rob, as he appears determined to get rid of anyone else on his tribe whom he thinks is strategizing, except Phil who no one takes seriously. (Forgot, they don't have to throw challenges.) Rob may be a much bigger threat to his fellow tribesmates chances of winning than Russell ever was.
Feels like bringing the two back resulted in over-reactions on both tribes; Zapatera was over afraid of Russell, while Ometepe is over respectful of Rob. Hope not; would like to thing Rob's tribemates will consider sending him off when they don't need him but doesn't look likely at the moment.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
03-10-11, 08:49 PM (EST)

33. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

So true, Rob targets players because they are players. While I can understand his logic, if enough of his tribe catch on to what he's doing they should take control away from him, maybe let him hang around for his challenge value but nothing else.

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
03-12-11, 02:16 PM (EST)

35. "RE: The Wrong Move Vs. the Right Reason"

I think a monkey would have been more useful with a saw in his hand than Phillip. Frankly, if anyone was going to throw a challenge to get rid of someone, it would be him.

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