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"S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"	12-09-10, 08:55 PM (EST)
"S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"
It's fun predicting the outcomes of future episodes, but I would NEVER have guessed at merge that HALF of the F6 would be 40+ players! But I do have hammer and chisel in hand and etching the F3 in stone: Chase-Fabio-Sash. FABIO - Is he outwitting more than Sash? No. Is he playing harder than Chase? No. Will this Jury vote within the "Spirit of the Game?" Probably not. That being said, Fabio is in very good shape. Chase and Sash will have to (or already have) step(ped) on toes to advance to the Finals. Fabio hasn't and won't have to. SASH - Sure having a HII is big, but he took a situation that turned bad for him and played off it well. This may come as a shock to Michel, but he's not #2 for winning the IC. Let's face it...a punch-drunk boxer on crack could probably have solved the puzzle quicker than Benry and Fabio. Most would have taken Chase's snub personally and immediately aligned with the other three. To his credit Sash put it past him and ultimately made the correct decision to go with Chase. CHASE - He did right by choosing Holly, but made a major error picking Jane. He acknowledged his blunder, and rather cry over spilled milk, he focused on damage control and appears to have come out of it OK. His dilemma is knowing he can't win sitting between Jane and Holly in the Finals. Can he cut them loose without Holly and Jane joining the ever-growing fraternity of former sour grape crying jurors more fixated on voting AGAINST a castaway as opposed to voting FOR a player? HOLLY - Chase and Sash will keep "mom" around for her vote. When her vote is no longer needed, they'll send her off to the Active Adult Community. Now if Holly could sniff this out by rounding up the 40+ trio and bringing in Fabio, she could change the game. But she seems to be too maternally attached to Chase. DAN - Destined to go where other pathetically inept castaways have gone before him--F4. JANE - Gotta rank her last for carrying on over the execution of Kel-Nay. Could she be Jan's (Thailand) sister separated at birth? My pick to be booted next. BOOTED BENRY - I knew the Anti-Darwin Syndrome would get him, but I didn't think it would be F7. Could be risky for Chase/Sash to leave three 40+ players in the game at this point, but Chase must be confident he has Holly/Jane under his thumb. One thing is for certain...Fabio can take Benry's vote to the bank.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-09-10, 10:37 PM (EST)

1. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

LAST EDITED ON 12-09-10 AT 10:39 PM (EST)

If Fabio had been booted, I might have stopped watching. I'm not sure what would be worth watching for after that.
Fabio - Editing made him look stupid again this episode, but ultimately, his strategy of laying low worked better than Benry's strategy of scrambling. The dude abides.
Chase- Really got the heavy edit this episode and it was all good. He even turned his foolish decision to bring Jane on reward to his advantage. He really had his gameplay hat on this episode. Lies to Benry might have cost him that vote, however.
Holly - Appears everyone would rather take her to the F3 instead of Jane. She is sitting in a great position.
Sash- Might have just blown his game. An F3 with him, Benry and Dan was his best case scenario. I don't think he can beat any of Chase's alliance in a vote. At this point, it should be about that, not about who the physical threats are. Sash also debunks the idea that Survivor is all about trust. No one trusts Sash, and yet, he is in no danger.
Jane- Ah, chicken is GOOD. Being compared to Jan isn't how you want to be known.
Dan- Useless hanger-on who will write anyone's name down as long as it isn't his. In mafioso talk, he's a rat.
Newest L Lodge resident-
Benry- Oh look, I ran over a dirt squirrel.

>

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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12-09-10, 11:21 PM (EST)

2. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Fabio: Like him the best. Also seems to have no enemies except perhaps Na-Onka, but would you want to rely on her vote? On the other hand, no longer has any allies either, and should know it. Should be hoping for the Holly/Chase/Sash/Jane alliance to break up; maybe targeting Jane. If not may have to win IC to stay in game.
Holly: Not sure who's idea it was to let Benry and Dan think Fabio was going, but result should be to make Fabio distrust Dan. But Holly does seem to be doing a lot of strategizing.
Jane: Finally wearing out? Could explain the Kelly-Onka burial.
Chase: Can't think of anything to say.
Dan: Can't think of anything to say.
Sash: Also think he chose the wrong alliance.
Gone- Benry: Can't think of anything to say except he deserved it.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-10-10, 06:50 AM (EST)

4. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Yes winning the game should be the primary objective for all, but for right now Sash needs to focus on the best way to get to the Finals. I think he has it a Hundred times easier making it to the F3 with Chase only because there's no way anyone wants Jane in Finals. By process of elimation it puts Sash in the Finals with that four-person alliance.
Sash is no better than #4 with Benry-Fabio-Dan. Sash's best (and maybe only) shot of winning is putting on the performance of a lifetme at FTC while sitting between Chase and Fabio both of whom would not be able to handle themselves as well as Sash with the Q&As. It worked for Todd in China who stole the win from Amanda.
The only remaining castaways I see being "in their element" at FTC are Sash and Holly (maybe Jane, but she still is a bit batty in my mind.) Although you can make a case if Fabio comes off looking like a village idiot he doesn't lose any points. Quite frankly, the FTC is really the only thing keeping me watching the end of this season.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-10-10, 01:45 AM (EST)

3. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

1. Jud. Still the most interesting player in the game, should be fun next week how he handles being duped. Oh, right....
2. Sash. Cool and sharp, not the most likeable of people but he's managed to find himself in the Cesternino position.
3. Holly. Kind of took up the leader reigns and has her head in the game, funny that Jud of all people is underestimating her.
4. Jane. Great old lady in a lot of ways, solid on many of the rudiments of the game, just doesn't have a gameplan to rely on. A more savvy player would have by now slipped that target Marty painted on her.
5. Chase. FOCUS! Still making bad moves, doing okay in damage control for now.
6. Dan. Man just doesn't have any game at all, that might just get him to final.
Bye Bye Benry. He looked so good on paper at the start of the game, lot of wasted potential there.

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Toban 110 desperate attention whore postings
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12-10-10, 05:09 PM (EST)

5. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

1. Sash: It's nice to see a player not lose his/her mind over not being taken on a reward. Way to stay cool and focused on the game. If he makes final 3 and doesn't win, it's only because he didn't make enough personal connections with the jurors.
2. Holly: She, too, has her head in the game. I really hope she can somehow figure out a way to get herself into the finals because I think she would have a good shot at getting enough votes. She's had a great story arc.
3. Fabio: I would be happy to see him win. He was totally outplayed though by Sash and co.
4. Chase: This guy seems almost too nice to play Survivor. On the other hand, it would be nice to see someone that likeable win for a change. (Although Samoa's Nathalie was a saint compared to Russell, I never really warmed up to her.)
5. Dan: I don't really like him. He doesn't have much to say. His strategy, probably by default, is to be a useless goat. It'll probably work to get him at least to F4 but he can't win.
6. Jane: I like her less and less every time I see her. I don't think Fabio is the idiot. I think Jane is. I find it comical to listen to her confesionals about strategy. It seems like a chore for her to even remember the names of the people in her own alliance. Plus, the thing with the chicken was ridiculous.
Booted:
Benry: Good. You were a tool.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-12-10, 02:42 PM (EST)

6. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

LAST EDITED ON 12-12-10 AT 02:51 PM (EST)
1- Fabio: This was a bad episode for Fabio but his strategy of playing it cool is what saved him over Benry who showed he was ready to throw his ally under the bus and even imposed his choice to change the decoy vote from Jane to Holly. Fabio has made friends which is essential to get votes, he just has to show that he can play in order to win the vote.
2- Chase: He had a bad episode himself, making one more stupid move. Fortunately he recovered but the jurors may punish him in the end. More and more, I see Chase as this season's Ian, another confused young man who played with his heart. (But I understand a guy who fell for Brenda much more than one who did for Katie!)
3- Holly: She seems destined to be the coach until the end. I think she just gave Fabio the gameplan to win. That's why coaches coach and players win.

4- Dan
5- Sash
Why Sash lower than Dan? Because of this exchange:
Sash said: “It’s obvious that there’s a three-three split… it’s obvious that I’m going to be number four man on any three-person alliance.”
Dan replied: “Forget those three, let’s us four go.”
Sash objected “Only three make it to the finals.”
Dan smartly countered: “In other words, you’re saying you might side with them? That’s what you’re saying is that you might side with them.”
Sash stuttered: “Uh? I…I…Ah? I…Uh? Honestly, none of you three have come forward and told me your game plan yet so for…for…for…Ah…here on out, I…I want you to feel free to tell me whatever you want, so you know…you know…”
Dan: “We tried to get Sash back on board with us so we approached him and he said: “I’m with you guys, I’m with you guys, I’m with you guys” but people don’t trust Sash and they are crazy if they do after what he did to his own right-hand girl, after what he did to Brenda, after what he did to Marty"
In other words, Sash isn't seen as a strategist but as a disloyal player and Dan outwitted him. Correct choice? I don't think Sash could have beaten anyone but Dan and Benry so how is aligning with Chase and Holly smart?
6- Jane:It's clear that with Marty gone Jane has no story left to tell so we get to see her batty side. And isn't Jane kinda like Denise? Someone the players fear but the jurors would probably not vote for.
Booted - Benry: He was dumb to the end so he cannot be an example of Anti-Darwinism. That, to me, can only apply to someone that is IN the main alliance but gets voted out because he is good in challenges AND well-liked. Benry was a disliked outsider.

Ils sont fous, ces Romains!

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-13-10, 01:08 AM (EST)

7. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

You are right on the money with Sash and Jane, but I don't see how anyone can say Chase had a bad episode. A bad episode would be making a mistake and not knowing it or making a mistake and paying for it. Chase not only immediately acknowledged he made a mistake, but then, he never paid for it. In fact, if anything, the episode's story was how Chase successfully recovered from his mistake.

>

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-13-10, 07:32 AM (EST)

9. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Well put, Iltarion. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-13-10, 08:57 AM (EST)

10. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

LAST EDITED ON 12-13-10 AT 07:16 PM (EST)
How can anyone say that Chase had a bad episode? Simple: By looking at the big picture. Getting Sash to vote with him was just a little battle. Winning the title of Sole Survivor is the goal. Anyway, Benry said that he was convinced that Sash had made his mind long before to stay with Chase, Jane and Holly so Chase didn't recover anything, he just showed his weakness again.
Chase's problem this whole season has been hesitating and making wrong decisions. If this contributes to losing some jury votes, as I think it will, then this was a terrible episode. If he wins the jury vote, you will be right and he did recover.
ETA: Editing-wise, there was absolutely no need to show Chase promising to take Sash on reward. If we had simply heard him say during reward that he realized he should have taken Sash, it would have been much better for his edit.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-14-10, 07:53 PM (EST)

13. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

If Chase makes it to the Finals and does not win it will not be because of jury votes lost due to the "mistake." It will be knowing he could not beat Holly or Jane and was forced to cut them loose with Holly/Jane turning into bitter jurors seeking vengence by voting against him. They may even turn into poison pills in Sequesterville and cry sour grapes to get others to vote against him.
It wouldn't be the first time...and sadly it probably wouldn't be the last.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-14-10, 08:36 PM (EST)

14. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

But isn't that circular logic? If Chase hadn't promised to take Holly and Jane to the end, they wouldn't be that upset if he eliminates them. Chase got too close to them, made it personal. That's a big part of all his mistakes. Compare him to Todd who knew how to make friends but never let them get too close. That's how you play Survivor.
The players have called Chase dumb and said he made mistakes: Shannon was the first but he doesn't count. Brenda, Marty and now Sash and Benry have all said it. They know Chase much better than you or I so I prefer to base my opinion on them instead of personal impressions. As a juror, I wouldn't vote for someone I thought was dumb. Anyway, the jury is ALWAYS right!

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-15-10, 07:30 PM (EST)

17. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Don't remember Chase "promising" anything and sealing the deal with a handshake or some other similiar action. If Chase realizes he would have a difficult time beating Holly/Jane in the Finals and eliminates them without either of them seeing it coming...that's "outwitting" and "outplaying" in my book. So I guess you regard outwit and outplay as a "mistake???"
EVERYONE who decides to play the game KNOWS they stand a great chance of being outwitted and outplayed especially when they would seige the opportunity to outwit and outplay someone else if the opportunity presented itself. So to be "upset" about being outwitted and outplayed is completely hypocritical. And to vote against someone who got the better half of you is being a crybaby and sour-grapes juror.
Todd never let people get close to him???? I'm afraid you have it the other way around. No one (other than Amanda) WANTED to get close to Todd and he welcomed her closeness with open arms. Had Doe-Eyes not bombed miserably at FTC, one could make a case that Todd would have been instrumental to her win.
So a bitter juror/player with an axe to grind against a particular Survivor would offer a more accurate assessment about that player? OK...I guess we have no other option than to assess Boston Rob based on what Lex, Big Tom, and Alicia felt about him because, afterall, playing the game with him they knew him much better than you, I, and anyone's "personal impressions." You're too funny!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-15-10, 08:48 PM (EST)

18. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

LAST EDITED ON 12-15-10 AT 10:12 PM (EST)
>Don't remember Chase "promising" anything and
>sealing the deal with a
>handshake or some other similiar
>action.
Chase told Holly and Jane that he would lie to Sash, tell him that he'd vote out Jane to take him along with Holly to the F3. That's a promise he shouldn't have made.

If Chase realizes he
>would have a difficult time
>beating Holly/Jane in the Finals
>and eliminates them without either
>of them seeing it coming...that's
>"outwitting" and "outplaying" in my
>book. So I guess you
>regard outwit and outplay as
>a "mistake???"
It's all in the manner of doing it. You, of all people, should know that flat out lying directly to someone isn't outwitting. One needs subtlety in order to make others think you are with them when you really aren't. Chase has proven to be so honest that any moves he makes now will entail bitterness when a less personal approach could have been defended at FTC.
>So to be "upset" about
>being outwitted and outplayed is
>completely hypocritical. And to vote
>against someone who got the
>better half of you is
>being a crybaby and sour-grapes
>juror.
Any alliance is a contract: We go to the end together but if you screw me, I'll screw you back. NOTHING hypocritical about that.
>Todd never let people get close
>to him???? I'm afraid you
>have it the other way
>around. No one (other than
>Amanda) WANTED to get close
>to Todd
Watch China again: The main theme, taken from the "Art of War", was that everyone wanted to be in an alliance with Todd. JR, Leslie, Dave, Jamie, James, Frosti all offered him alliances and gave him help with the HII. He made friends but not as close and personal as Chase. For one, he didn't open his heart like Chase did by singing that song to his father. Todd was a very smart player.

>So a bitter juror/player with an
>axe to grind against a
>particular Survivor would offer a
>more accurate assessment about that
>player? OK...I guess we have
>no other option than to
>assess Boston Rob based on
>what Lex, Big Tom, and
>Alicia felt about him because,
>afterall, playing the game with
>him they knew him much
>better than you, I, and
>anyone's "personal impressions." You're
>too funny!
I'll have you notice that I was referring to opinions of players when they were still in the game. They called Chase dumb before being on the jury. Nevertheless, I wasn't trying to be funny about the jury, I was being real. Lex saw that Rob was making deals that he couldn't honor. Even Rob realized he was wrong.
ETA: Here's from Rob's latest interview:
"I feel that each time I played “Survivor” I learned something new, and I’ve tried to make adjustments so that I did not make the same mistakes that I made previously. At its core I believe that “Survivor” is more a social game than anything else. At the end of the day, people just want to be treated with respect and play with people that have a good work ethic and a positive attitude. I feel like I have grown a lot as a person since “Survivor: Marquesas” and I think it showed in “Survivor: Heroes vs Villains.”
Although he doesn't specifically refer to Tom and Lex, I think it's clear he was talking in large part about the way he treated them.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-13-10, 07:31 AM (EST)

8. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

If the concensus among those who voted out Benry booted him because he was "dumb" then I would agree that Anti-Darwin was not the reason. I don't believe anyone disliked Benry enough for that to be the primary reason for booting him. It was blatantly obvious they wanted him out because he was a strong physical player and a challenge threat; thus a prime example of Anti-Darwin Syndrome.
You're right about Fabio having to do more than make friends to win...he's going to have to win ICs.
At this point I don't see Sash winning REGARDLESS of who he sits between. Jane and Holly are two players no one want to sit with, thus going with Chase pretty much guarrantees him a F3 spot. Making the Finals with Pabio-Benry-Dan was MUCH more of a longshot. That was my reasoning for saying he made the right decision on episode 12/13.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-13-10, 09:07 AM (EST)

11. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

The primary reason for his elimination was because he wasn't in the alliance. Plain and simple. If it was a case of Anti-Darwinism, then Chase would have been just as big a target as Benry and Fabio. As is, Benry simply reached the expiration date for "Dumb and Strong Outsiders". "Dumb and Weak Outsiders" like Dan can stay on the shelf a little longer.
Anti-Darwinism, to me is rare. It would have to be someone within the alliance who is voted out simply because he is too strong and too well considered by potential jurors. Brenda was an example, Benry was not.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-14-10, 02:01 AM (EST)

12. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

The editing also didn't need to show us Chase repeatedly admitting he made a mistake, then proactively working to correct it, but it did.
The big picture might be that it was a bad move by Chase, but that isn't what I was talking about. I am talking about this particular episode, to which Chase's story- the mistake, the reckoning, and the recovery- was the biggest part of the episode.
>

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milkachulina 67 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
12-15-10, 11:50 AM (EST)

15. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Fabio - He is, if nothing else, likeable. Again, I don't think the display of ignorance is an act. It's authentic!
Sash - He is so arrogant. Then I felt sorry for him when he appeared to be on the outs, trying to connect as the swing vote. Then he won the immunity idol. Then he became grossly arrogant again. I was not suprised that Sash wouldn't go against Chase and his alliance at Tribal Council. Chase is extra hot, and Sash is all about that Chase hotness.
Chase - I'm all about that Chase hotness, too. I have confessed this before, so no big deal. Otherwise, I think Chase is a country bumpkin. Actually, he is Colby 2.0. I expect Chase will also make a devasting move at the end that will cost him $1 million. But, they are both such hotness. On a side note, there wasn't a lot of male hotness this season. Maybe that's why Chase stands out so much. In other seasons, my Survivor "boyfriend" changed like the wind.
Calamity Jane - Love you, Jane. But, the chicken memorial was too much for me. And, of all people, she was the last survivor I would expect to break down and CRY over a chicken. Maybe she needed camera time to come off as a sensitive person? Regardless, it backfired.
Holly - A real player and could win it all. But, she gets on my nerves. And, this woman is only 44? Sheesh. Maybe it's the hairstyle. Time for a makeover Holly!
Dan - Ugh.
Booted: Benry - Bye Benry, with your flimsy self. As long as it ain't you, huh?

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
12-15-10, 02:56 PM (EST)

16. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Glad you're still around, milka. Don't get the Chase or Sash hotness thing myself, Sash is looking particularly gnarly you ask me. Still, he pulled off an II win.

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milkachulina 67 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
12-16-10, 10:58 AM (EST)

19. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

LOL!!! Sash looks very gnarly.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
12-16-10, 04:47 PM (EST)

20. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep12 (13 if you count the ReCrap)"

Tell me about it. The all around "hotness" for both sides was extremely weak this season. Brenda was pretty much the only thing this season had going for it. Perhaps the casting department is under the delusion that I want to turn on my TV to watch ordinary looking people. They would be greatly mistaken. I can simply look out my window for that. As horsemanure as Samao was, with having to put up with Russell for an entire season, it would still be a full two stars better than this season just based off the attractiveness of the cast, male and female.
>

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