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"Smart move by Russell?"
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-10, 07:28 AM (EST)
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"Smart move by Russell?"
I thought the timing was fine. If he was going to try to break up Danielle and Parvati, why not do it when he had two voters (Rupert and Colby) who would vote for anyone he wanted provided it wasn't either of them; and while he had immunity, so he couldn't be immediately blind sided if it went bad.

Just not sure if it was a smart idea even to try. One thing Russell could say was he had never voted against a member of his core alliance when he had any other choices. Not any more. Doubt he had much of a chance of winning a jury vote before but I think that likely killed any chance he did have.

Opposite argument could be that Danielle did say in her interview that Parvati and her were going to try to get him voted out. Not sure if that is true or just Danielle trying to make herself appear a stronger player than she was.

Thinking Russell's actions were mainly about his need to feel in total control; not sharing control. Also think they were part of his reaction to Parvati not telling him about her idol several episodes ago.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Smart move by Russell? NO! michel 05-09-10 1
   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! CSHS79 05-09-10 2
       RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! CTgirl 05-09-10 3
   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Belle Book 05-09-10 4
   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Jims02 05-09-10 5
       RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! iltarion 05-10-10 6
           RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! LFJ 05-10-10 7
               RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! iltarion 05-10-10 8
                   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! LFJ 05-10-10 9
           RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Jims02 05-10-10 10
               RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Wacko Jacko 05-13-10 11
                   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! michel 05-13-10 12
                   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Brownroach 05-13-10 13
                   RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Snidget 05-13-10 14
                       RE: Smart move by Russell? NO! Belle Book 05-13-10 15

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-10, 10:17 AM (EST)
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1. "Smart move by Russell? NO!"
To understand Russell, you must first realize that he is ruled by his ego and his insecurities, his inadequacies. He feels threatened, he strikes. That is often very good in this game because you have to eliminate practically everyone so it matters little if you eliminate them first or 16th...that is if you only consider making it to the end. If you plan on winning a jury vote then it is different. That is one of the reasons why I say the jury is always right. Errors in strategy, in planning and in dealing with others have to come back to haunt you.

Russell had no immediate danger, just a problem, caused by his inadequacies, of accepting being led by 2 women. Danielle would have been a great F2 or F3 adversary because he could have gotten votes against her. Like Parvati said, he cannot beat Rupert or Colby in the end and he is giving both of them a chance to be a Brett, to win their way to the end. Completely unnecessary risk, and with the possible Sandra/Rupert connection, (even if she voted against him) or the Jerri/Colby reunion it could be suicidal.

As for Danielle planning to vote him out, if true and not spin, that's where you see the difference between a winner, Parvati, and a second placer, Danielle. There is no way anyone would want to vote out Russell at this point. He has GOAT tattooed on his forehead but his ego doesn't let him see it.

I'd like to ask Parvati if, as the edit suggested, she calculated it was better to stay quiet and stop helping Danielle at one point in order to keep her goat in line.

Eliminating Rupert HAD to be the move to make and, like in chess, some moves have to be seen in advance.

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CSHS79 862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-10, 01:56 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-10 AT 02:34 PM (EST)

Whoever said Russell was smart?

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CTgirl 7073 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-10, 02:11 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
Please edit your post to remove spoilers. This is in the fanatics forum and no spoilers are allowed.


Cappy's Springtime

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-10, 04:31 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
Yeah, RussHell seems to act as if he just wants to make it to the end, not win. I'm sure he wants to win, but his actions seem to indicate otherwise.


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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-10, 11:53 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
I agree with this. I'd also like to add a couple points.

1. It really dampens his chances further with the jury. Not just because there's a chance Colby or Rupert would sneak in... It's because he has simply backstabbed too many people now. He might've had a chance if he took the Villains to the end and played the Mastermind Card, but now he just looks he's backstabbing his own people because of his insecurities.

2. You never, ever leave an alliance of two people together. Two people as a voting block are way, way, way, way, way more dangerous (and tougher to control) than one person. There's definitely a case to be made for using Colby to get through a vote next week, but you don't leave Rupert there. You're letting two people back in the game.

This was a classic case of Russell over-thinking a situation.


A 2003 IceCat original

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-10, 00:54 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-10 AT 01:40 AM (EST)


I am not going to go Freudian and act like I know Russell or his mind when I don't. But as it seems to me, the bottom line is that Parvati and Danielle were clearly no longer under his control. They were a power couple more loyal to each other than to Russell. Once he found that out, he was going to get rid of one of them: 1) just to show them he could do it, and 2) because that's what you do when your dog no longer obeys- you put it down. The idiocy was thinking that Parvati would now crawl back to him. If he took out Parvati, its possible Danielle would have come back to him, but not the other way around. The interesting problem is that Parvati can't take Russell out now without giving Rupert and Colby another pass.

Since Russell couldn't win a vote before the move and still can't win one, I don't see it as being a big deal to him either way. The person most affected is Parvati, who goes from having a practical cake walk to actually being in trouble now that her loyal soldier is gone.

I found it comical both during the episode and now on these boards that the women decide to vote out Candice instead of Rupert or Colby, and then one vote later Russell is being an idiot, according to them, because he won't just vote out Rupert or Colby. Hahaha... If you are so worried about them winning ICs, why didn't you get rid of one of them during the first vote? I guess it is only a priority when its on your timeline.


>

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LFJ 363 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-10, 05:15 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"

"The person most affected is Parvati, who goes from having a practical cake walk to actually being in trouble now that her loyal soldier is gone."

Two people remain that owe Parv - Sandra and Jerri. I believe they each received a HII from her during TC.

Meanwhile, she may have a reputation for "charming" her way through the competition, but we know that is not the case. She is thinking her way through it, while Russ is the one lying like a Ho. He has backstabbed every person on the tribe, and not quietly, either, which is curious. He doesn't even bother to try to "Aw, Shucks" his way out of it, which is even more curious, and convinces me more, after each episode, that he is getting a shove from Production.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-10, 01:33 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"

Tru dat. But neither Sandra nor Jeri could be considered a "faithful soldier." Sandra is loyal to none but herself, and Jeri just showed where her loyalty lies by voting out Danielle after Parvati and Danielle both implored her not to.

>

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LFJ 363 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-10, 04:28 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
You're right.
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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-10, 11:09 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
I am not going to go Freudian and act like I know Russell or his mind when I don't. But as it seems to me, the bottom line is that Parvati and Danielle were clearly no longer under his control. They were a power couple more loyal to each other than to Russell. Once he found that out, he was going to get rid of one of them: 1) just to show them he could do it, and 2) because that's what you do when your dog no longer obeys- you put it down.

It's not really about control, it's about loyalty. I think it is far, far, far more likely that Parvati/Danielle (before the lie) would be more loyal to Russell than Colby/Rupert.

Were the girls going to cut him out at the Final 4? Maybe. But, as you pointed out, his chances with the jury already were slim, so he might look like a decent jury goat for someone like Parvati. It wasn't really until Russell started spreading lies that the girls really got fed up with him. I suspect Parvati would've wanted a Final 3 with Russell the Snake and Danielle the Non-Entity. It beats bringing a Hero along or Jerri. Maybe they would've wanted to roll the dice with Sandra... I dunno.

The point is that Russell had enough enemies around him. Rupert was disgusted with him and called him out. Colby probably felt the same way but more of his wishy-washy style. Sandra is still grudgy over Courtney. It's not exactly the time to take a swipe at one ally (Parvati) and vote out another.

The only way he sticks around now is as a jury goat, and I would hardly consider playing for 2nd place a strong move.


A 2003 IceCat original

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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-10, 10:27 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
You guys are wrong. While there is a likelihood that Russell has ticked off almost everyone on the jury. There is still the chance that they could still vote him to win. Russell is the mastermind. That is how Russell sees it and he views this criteria as the only criteria that is important to win the game. We all know that jury members have voted with their hearts rather than brains, but each jury is different. Another angle is, what if Russell is in the final three with Paverti and Sandra? Both have won the game before. That could also weigh into the vote. We have seen in past all-star editions previous winners are not very well liked. I agree Russellís chance to win is very small, but do not rule it out. Believe me each of the remaining people view Russell as very dangerous....possibly too dangerous to remain in the game.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-10, 05:09 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
You should check the Insider clips. They are quite telling:


The people that were in the game last week, at least Parvati, Danielle, Colby and Sandra see him as a paranoid, stressed out, control freak.

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Brownroach 14241 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-10, 05:55 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
what if Russell is in the final three with Paverti and Sandra? Both have won the game before. That could also weigh into the vote. We have seen in past all-star editions previous winners are not very well liked.

Just want to point out that, for all the others knew at the time, Russell might have been on track to win S19, which hadn't concluded yet. Knowing Russell's penchant for tooting his own horn, he might have even told Parvati as much.


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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-10, 06:52 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
My thought is RussHell has, up until now, pretty much shown all he knows to do with "ha ha I'm here and you aren't" is rub it in the jury's face.

People will vote for best backstabbiness (or other strategy) under certain circumstances. Being told you are stupid and had no chance to win usually doesn't make people feel inclined to "vote with their head".

I hate that head/heart thing with voting anyway. The rules are you vote based on whatever you want to vote on. You aren't required to use reason or logic or who won the most challenges, etc.

The job, IMO, of the finalists (once they get there) is to understand the motivations of the various jurors and answer the questions in a way that makes them decide to vote for you, even when it is against their self interest (like revenge).

Some finalists have been very good at taking what happened and recontextualizing it in a way that has jurors go, gee, that person has a point. I should vote for them.

So far I've seen nothing in RussHell that leads me to believe he will do anything but try to bully people or shame them into voting for him. I don't see that as likely to work.

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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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05-13-10, 07:33 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Smart move by Russell? NO!"
Not only does bullying or shaming people into voting for you tend to backfire spectacularly, so does rubbing your being in the Final 3 in the jury's faces. I think RussHell did that in Samoa, and that's one reason why he lost.


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