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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Another rant"
LadyT 5567 desperate attention whore postings
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09-12-01, 03:41 PM (EST)
 
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"Another rant" |
I may ramble a bit, so please forgive me. My heart is so heavy for this great nation. I am relieved that my friends here and in real life are safe.I am a Christian and I am proud of it. Yesterday I relied on Jesus to get me through this. I am getting my strength from him. At this moment I am so full of rage against Bin Laden and all his followers. I want him and his followers dead. I wish we could parade them down Fifth Avenue in NYC and have everyone who wishes be allowed to stone the bastard to death. I know this is harsh, but I can't help it. I want to smell the napalm in the morning in Afghanastan. Yet the moment I think this, I ask Jesus for forgiveness. I know this is a wrong thought to have, but I can't help it. Yet I know that its wrong. I can't help this feeling, and I feel so guilty about it. I want revenge and justice done. I assume that they are a lot of people out there feeling the same way I am.
I also want to offer comfort to everyone here. I know that there isn't much I can do, but here is something that I have been repeating since the first time I heard about this. Psalm 23
The Lord is my shepard, I shall not want. He makes me lie in green pastures, he leads me beside still waters, he restores my soul. He leads me in right paths for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I fear no evil for you are with me your rod and your staff. They comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoit my head with oil, my cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the House of the Lord my whole life long.
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ItzLisa 3350 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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09-12-01, 04:29 PM (EST)
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1. "To finish the end of your post for you...." |
LAST EDITED ON 09-12-01 AT 07:17 PM (EST)... Amen. T, I know the conflicting thoughts are confusing - I think we're all having the same ones, though, everywhere. Horror at the lives lost, yet wanting revenge for the ones that took them. Probably because the hijackers weren't innocent and unaware like the victims. I think there is where we try to justify our thoughts sometimes with that difference. Thank you for posting this, T. I'm not an overly religious person, but the 23rd Psalm has always been my favorite and very comforting. (((hugs))) Edit to tone down my babbling thoughts, and because I sounded rather harsh in partly wanting revenge as opposed to justice. My tired brain is still trying to sort the two out. ****************************************
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SherpaDave 8324 desperate attention whore postings
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09-12-01, 05:10 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Another rant" |
Trish, this post actually meant quite a lot to me. I'm one of those people who refers to himself as "spiritual, but not religious." I believe that Jesus was quite likely the world's greatest humanitarian in history, and I take his teachings (that I know) pretty seriously. I've heard many people quoting the "eye for an eye" passage of the Bible yesterday and today as justification for retaliation. But consider its context:Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. I am, by no means, a Biblical scholar, so it took me by surprise to see the phrase so oft-quoted used in this way. To me, it appears that the Bible says that "an eye for an eye" is "resisting not evil." In other words, it is playing into evil's hands, feeding it. At any rate, it is natural to feel rage at this time. But it is your power that allows you to move past the rage, to find your own peace. As long as we carry our rage, we are somewhat controlled by the actions of others. When we move past that rage, we have again taken control of ourselves. I could go into a lot more detail about my own feelings of the last two days, but my innate dovishness might be offensive to some who are still justifiably enraged. As time passes, I may post more on the subject. Your rage, Trish, is utterly real and utterly yours. There is no shame in feeling it. That you recognize the negative of it and work to reconcile those feelings is what elevates you personally. Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. Wanted to express my support in a way personal to me while trying to remain fairly apolitical.
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Mon Cherie 1811 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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09-12-01, 06:22 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Another rant" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-12-01 AT 08:53 PM (EST)Trish, thank you so much for posting this. I, too, woke up with a heavy heart, as I'm sure most of us did. I have been praying, for our country's leaders, for the workers salvaging what they can from the horrible destruction, but mostly for the families of the victims. Today has been very weird. I have been walking around in a daze, and if I hear someone laugh, I think, "Why are they laughing?" It may sound extreme, but I feel like everyone should wear black and mourn the huge loss of lives. I know, depressing, but I feel like everything should shut down, not forever, just for a bit. I'll just end with a verse that comes to mind at this time: "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made know to God; aand the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:6-7 Love and Hugs to All,
Mon Cherie
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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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09-12-01, 07:15 PM (EST)
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6. "Separation of church and State" |
..leave jesus out of this, he's got nothing to do with it. It's none of his business.This is about war, this is about taking steps to make sure this kind of thing won't, or at least, isn't likely/probable to happen again. And there is only one way to do that....any person, country or government that has ever harboured this a$$hole or members of his organization for even one lousy hour, or given him even one lousy dime in support, must be completely descimated, their cities bombed, their homes burned to the ground and their families killed. IMO that is the only way we can begin to stop this type of terrorism. Plain and simple, we are never going to catch the handful of people that are directly responsible for this, and even if we did, another group would sprout up like a weed to take its place in no time. When these people die they are considered martyrs and heros and there are always new ones who would love to achieve that status as well. Therefore, we have to hit them where it counts and that is right in the place where these legends grow and these people are worshipped....their homes and homelands. Right now there are several places, most likey in Afghanistan where people are very proud of what happened yesterday for they know that their support of these monsters was instrumental in making this happen. Would they still be happy and proud if they knew that hundreds of thousands of their population was about to be systematicaly wiped out by the U.S.A? Would they still consider these terrorists to be heros for destroying a couple of buildings and killing a few thousand people if they knew that the damage they were GUARANTEED to suffer in retaliation was going to be 100x worse than anything their martyrs had accomplished? Would they still consider them heros then for being responsible for what would certainly be a near annihalation of their homeland? Would they still consider it worth it at that point or would they realize that maybe the price of their actions is too high. The only way we can make this stop is for these supporters to make that realization that the price of supporting terrorism is too steep, and the ONLY way that is going to happen is with extreme force. Seriously, just look how long this guy has been able to reign terror on the World.....no one man can do that alone, he needs the support of governments and nations to do that, and we need to cut him off from that system of support. Sorry to rant, I don't want to argue with anyone, I'm just very upset as I'm sure all of you are.
Also, I've been following the OT board the last couple of days and I'm very glad to see that everyone appears to be present and accounted for.
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VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
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09-12-01, 07:34 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Separation of church and State" |
*hugs the clown*.. I love you, shakes....just so you know... *smile* 
"Come to me. Come to me because only I, and my like, can end the lonliness you feel." - The Vampire Lestat
Du ar min hjälte, Supermänniska 
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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-12-01, 08:28 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Separation of church and State" |
And, just for the record, we've TRIED the other approaches to this issue. The next logical escalation, which we can expect in less than 1 year, based on the current timetable of Osama bin Laden's attacks, is a nuclear weapon on board a ship in a U.S. harbor.Shall we wait for the actinic flash and the blinding fireball before we put an end to this aggression? JV 1:1 And I say unto thee, thou attack'st my people, and even slay my children. 1:2 So, I shall visit upon thee a plague such that 100 of thy people shall die for every child of mine. 1:3 And I shall persecute thee until the end of thy days, that thee may'st have no rest nor quarter nor peace. 1:4 And I shall slay every man who give thee so much as a crust of bread or a kindly glance. 1:5 And thy Seed shall be forever cleansed from the very World, itself. 1:6 Thy homeland shall be burned, the fields of thy fathers salted, and every stone shall be torn from its neighbor. (and so on) -- JV (What the Hell? I'm not religious, and if *I* don't say it, it might take shakes a week or so to get around to it...) (the scary thing is, this isn't some knee-jerk reaction, but rather the only way that I see to convince these madmen that there's no margin in terrorism against my people.) "What rage for fame attends both great and small!
Better be damned than mentioned not at all." --John Wolcot (1738–1819)
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SherpaDave 8324 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-13-01, 00:44 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: WHOA nellie...." |
Thank you, Pepe. You're right. I removed the name. It wasn't necessary to get my point across and probably weakened my point.
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ItzLisa 3350 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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09-12-01, 10:51 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: WHOA nellie...." |
LAST EDITED ON 09-12-01 AT 10:55 PM (EST)The thing is, right now, I have so many conflicting feelings, I don't know how to feel or what to think - which is partly why I edited my first post. Shakes, I'm glad you're back - you're just about the only one on here I was waiting to hear from. (((Hug!))) To me, Trish is right, Shakes is right, Dave is right, JV is right, and my thoughts on those change like the on and off of a light switch. It's not cut and dried, guys - these maniacs need to be dealt with fast, but also very carefully. This guy is a madman. But as Shakes pointed out, do we deal just with him? With his followers? How far does that branch out? Or does all of that make us no better than he is, just as guilty of being murderers? I truly don't know - how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I'm not a vengeful person, not a violent person, but after what I saw yesterday firsthand, the first thing running through my mind was "Time to wipe out this guy and his followers TOTALLY" - I'd never thought anything like that before in my life! Or, as some on here have said, find them, bring them to justice and send them to jail for life. But I just got off the phone with my friend Kirsten. She said a friend of hers worked at the WTC, but had a dentist appointment yesterday morning. When he got home, he called in to work just when the second tower had been hit. His co-workers were gathered together in a conference room and he spoke to them for the last time before the tower collapsed. They all said goodbye to him, told him they loved him, and then lost the phone connection. Five minutes later, they were all dead - how do you process that and then try to make the right decision to NOT be just as barbaric or brutal, but show them that we mean business through legal or non-violent channels? You can't have it both ways - so which gets the job done but allows us to sleep at night? I wish I knew - after yesterday, I think I'm even more confused. ****************************************
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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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09-13-01, 01:06 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Separation of church and State" |
I don't disrespect
>your right to feel rage;
>please don't disrespect Trish's right
>to cope in her own
>way. ...normally I don't take the time to explain the obvious to people, but in light of the last couple of day's confusing events I will make this one exception.
I was obviously NOT saying that Trish shouldn't rely on her religious beliefs to help her cope with this event. What I was clearly saying was that the theory of separation of church and State implies that the State must NOT use those same religious beliefs (forgiveness and compassion) when dealing with this tragedy. Therefore, in terms of State action, I was correct in stating that Christianity has NO business being a part of any thought process that will go into how the State deals with this event.
As far as how individual people deal with this tragedy, religion has every right to be part of that process if that is what they want. Please don't respond to this post, just drop it.
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SherpaDave 8324 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-13-01, 01:24 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Separation of church and State" |
As far as how individual people deal with this tragedy, religion has every right to be part of that process if that is what they want.Thank you. That didn't come across in your original post. And I appreciate your saying that. Please don't respond to this post, just drop it. Sorry. My way of letting you know it's dropped, as far as I'm concerned. Had I not posted, there would have been the question of whether there was lingering hostility. Anyway, sorry I went off. What I obeserved was someone being told her religion isn't valid. That wasn't your intent, so I apologize for construing it as such.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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09-13-01, 05:13 AM (EST)
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16. "This will put you to sleep... OFG's ramble, better than poppies..." |
LAST EDITED ON 09-13-01 AT 05:25 AM (EST)Shakes,
thanks for bringing up this little Constitutional provision that we have that decrees separation of church and state. >>Therefore, in terms of State action, I was correct in stating that Christianity has NO business being a part of any thought process that will go into how the State deals with this event. You got me thinking and so I'll add my ramble to this thread...
It's got to be very difficult for people in government today to separate their religious beliefs from their political philosophies, especially when they have reason to feel that a certain religion makes up most of their constituency. Yet they ought to uphold the separation as part of their duty in taking office. The separation was not put there to invalidate any beliefs, but to prevent invalidation. It was necessary in order to keep one faith from dominating and thus persecuting other faiths. At the time this country was founded, we should remember that there was no unity of belief even among Christians (and if we think there is now, we can look at Ireland, where the difference between Protestant and Catholic is still as huge as if they were totally separate religions). Some of the people who came over looking for tolerance weren't all that tolerant of others. There had to be some rule of law established to keep our state from becoming a place that persecuted non-believers of the majority faith, and it worries me to see that slipping in this country in recent years. Today, there are still many different faiths in this country, including the faith that atheism is the scientific reality, and also the agnostic position that the truth cannot be determined with the evidence at hand. Our government really needs to take a look back at the Constitution each time someone states a principle of a particular faith as the truth of the people.
Humanitarianism and ethics, however, are philosophical studies that have been discussed in many cultures for millenia, and ethical concepts are not the same thing as religion merely because some religions have incorporated them into their precepts. Therefore, discussion of ethics and humanitarianism does not violate the principle of separation. Creed, scripture, and other dogma and ritual have no place in the state's decision, but acting in a way that values all human life, well, there's no reason that can't be an option. I know I am rambling a little, trying to think this through.
Ultimately, I think forgiveness and compassion are legitimate stances for a state to adopt if they are reasonable strategies (and they may not be)--so long as the state doesn't quote scripture and favor a specific faith to back up its philosophy. That said, I am with JV in recognizing the reality that this event could be mild compared to what terrorists could wreak with nuclear weapons. Some of us have been so happy to see the Cold War end we just don't want to think that nukes on our homeland are still a possibility--we want to think that terrorists with warheads always get stopped by Arnie Schwartzenegger in the nick of time. These events show we're wrong. The bad guys pulled off the operation with hardly a hitch. Right now, San Francisco Bay is on full alert for any suspicious vessels. Ships are being searched. They are just as much potential bombs as airliners in the case of big coastal cities. Yes, and trains, they work well even in the interior. We have a lot to worry about. Mostly I resist any thought of bombing civilians without warning. We need a better way to frighten people out of supporting terrorism than turning their country into a morgue, IMHO... And I believe we have to stay with the idea that there's no such thing as acceptable or limited use of nuclear weapons. If we EVER use them on people again, we WILL get them in response. Even those who are angry enough to blast Afghanistan into nothing should think hard about mushroom clouds over our cities in retaliation. And what if we "only" use "conventional" bombing on one or more states in the Middle East? Aren't we being terrorized partly because people over there perceive us as bullies with our sophisticated armed forces and technology and they want to fight back with their available weapons? How can we talk comfortably about civilian targets as "war," but condemn them for killing our civilians in their "war." As far as they are concerned, the US and Israel are allies that have both been at war with them for some time--with the US supplying the weapons. I HATE and despise what they did but I can't pretend that it came out of nowhere. We average citizens don't feel like we have been bombing and shooting them but our country has been participating on levels that affect the Muslim nations day in and day out...
On the other hand, how could we not support the people of Israel who so needed a homeland after WWII? We take sides; we make enemies. And then it's additionally complicated because we allied with Israel before we had massive waves of Muslim immigrants--who are now Americans too. The United States decided to become truly multicultural and ethnically diverse but I heard people last night calling the news and suggesting we intern all our citizens of Arabic descent--as if we learned nothing from our mistakes with Japanese-Americans... Our enemies are over there using the same arguments we make--what can they do that's so drastic that it will make the Americans stop their involvement with the Middle East? Don't even think that I am defending their philosophy, but I am trying to open my eyes to their motivations. It's not so simple as mindless fanaticism. They also think they are protecting a way of life in their homelands. Well, their tactics won't work against the United States because we will fight to get even and that's how we are... But will our tactics be any more effective because they involve even more massive loss of life? Is it practically possible for us to eliminate their ability to get even back at us? I don't have a good answer. I am just thinking... indulging in an insomniac kind of denial that I have to function "normally" in the world tomorrow when I don't feel like anything's normal.
Ha, anyone who reads this can thank me for putting them to sleep... I am so guilty of trying to ignore international relations until the problems are thrown in my face, that it amuses me I am even trying to talk on the subject... Thanks everyone for giving me food for thought. All your opinions were interesting and valuable to me.
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SherpaDave 8324 desperate attention whore postings
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09-13-01, 11:34 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: This will put you to sleep... OFG's ramble, better than poppies..." |
Thanks, OFG. You put into words a lot of the things that have hung heavy on my heart these past two days. There has been one other aspect that has greatly occupied my mind that I've not seen mentioned.I have utterly no desire to see a large part of another generation destroyed by war. At one time, I worked with a lot of Viet Nam veterans, and one thing I often heard from them was, "If we go to war again, send us. Don't fuck up another generation." And I could see in their eyes how deeply they meant this, how greatly their lives had been changed by having killed other human beings, even if those other human beings were soldiers. Keep in mind that most soldiers, on both sides of most wars, are themselves barely removed from childhood. Our own armed forces are comprised primarily of people between the ages of 18 and 25 (with the average much closer to the younger end of that scale). Many of the armies we've fought through our various wars were comprised of much younger soldiers. When we speak of the atrocities of innocent people being killed in wars, we're usually not including soldiers in those statements. But most of the soldiers themselves have been drafted to their governments' causes. Or, in our case today, our armed forces are largely comprised of people who see military service as one of their few options to escape poverty or to get an education. Yes, they chose that path. But when considered in the context of other choices available, how much choice did they really have? When people have heard that I protested the Gulf War, or have heard me refer to myself as a dove, I've occasionally been confronted with hateful words and images. Specifically, people have been appalled by the (misinformed) idea that I'm one of those who would spit on soldiers upon their return. Let me be abundantly clear: I support our soldiers. My way of supporting them, however, is to do everything in my limited power to push for their quick return home, safe and unscarred, physically and emotionally. I have too much respect for my veteran friends, for my grandfather who saw heavy action in WWII, for all of our veterans, to ever give our soldiers anything but the greatest respect. But the greatest respect I can give them is to wish for their mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical safety. It is likely, as we build and execute our response to the horrific events of the past few days, that many, many innocent people will die. Included among the innocent, I believe, are a good many soldiers. On both sides. Peace.
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Lisapooh 12664 desperate attention whore postings
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09-13-01, 11:40 AM (EST)
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18. "If you think OFG's was long .... here's my all-inclusive multi-subject rant! " |
On Monday night T and I found ourselves alone in chat - and also discovered something we didn't know about each other. We're both born again Christians. Religion was not a big part of my life for many years. I believed in something - I went to church even but I could not articulate it in any real, compelling way.Three years ago, after years of searching and years of striving to do what I thought were the "right" things, I found myself at the bottom of a pit that I didn't think I could ever crawl out of. At that point I "let go and let God". I surrendered my search for power and control to a higher power. That is an intensely personal decision. Something everyone comes to in their own time or not at all. I'm not a theologian. I don't want to in any way insinuate that my beliefs are more valid than any of yours. That I am right and you are wrong. But this is my personal belief and it isn't one I'm going to deny or make excuses for. It's important for people to realize that as Christians, we are taught to "minister" to non-believers. That's something I don't feel comfortable or knowledgable enough to do. And it's not something I'm trying to do here. My walk is a new one. But as Christians, we view the salvation we have been given as a gift we want to share. This makes a lot of people uncomfortable and that in turn makes a lot of people (myself included) hide or downplay their faith. Another thing every Christian strives to do is be Christ like in action and deed. We fail at this - we aren't perfect. Trish is an eloquent, compassionate and strong woman - more than capable of speaking up for herself. I don't presume to state her case for her. I feel though that this is the very human struggle that Christians feel so acutely right now and maybe what Trish was saying. As we strive for the Christ-like qualities of forgiveness and compassion - we struggle with the very human need for revenge. Trish's post was an honest one - heartfelt and sincere. I'm proud of her for making it. As any of you that know me from chat would realize - I don't "sound" like a Christian. in fact, I told Trish I was behaving like a closet Christian the other night - and I was ashamed of myself. This was before these unspeakable things happened on Tuesday. Even since then, I have not spoken up about other issues because so many of us on the board are walking on eggshells - trying not to hurt, trying to help heal - trying to avoid taking sides. But I don't want Trish to feel alone. And I'm so sorry that OFG felt alone. It hurts my heart that anyone on this board would feel persecuted or isolated for speaking up or taking an unpopular stand. I don't want to take sides in these arguments. I don't want to judge other people or try to excuse or explain. Not taking sides is a tricky thing - and strangely isolating too. I care deeply about the people on this board. All of you. Tuesday changed everything for me. It has infused me with a sense of fragility and urgency. Life is indeed too short to not speak your mind and open your heart. I never dreamed I could feel so much compassion and connection with people I have never met. But I do. Whether I agree with you or not. Whether you agree with me or not. You are in my heart and in my prayers. I care about all of you. I'm also ferociously proud of this country. I am so grateful that I am allowed to have my beliefs and express them without fear of government reprisal or oppression. I am so grateful that all of you have the same priviledge. The Bill of Rights is an amazing document - it guarantees us personal freedoms that as a people we sometimes take for granted. Far more people around the world fight and die for the rights that we have been empowered with. Far more people around the world live and die without ever knowing what it is like to sleep with a full stomach or to go to school or vote or even enjoy the feeling of personal safety. Many of these people live in the countries that we are so angry with right now. We are angry and horrified - justifiably so - at the governments of these countries that harbor terrorists. And we want to exact a measure of revenge on them. We all do. But the thought of inflicting more misery on the starving people of the Sudan, the oppressed people of Afghanistan. That's a bitter pill for me to swallow. I wish there was a way to punish those truly responsible: the terrorist cells and their leadership - as well as the tyrannical governments that fund, train or shelter them. I wish there was a way to do it that would spare the lives of more innocent people. People who struggle daily under an oppressive system that offers them no hope and no future. People who are born and raised in an environment of fear, hatred and oprresion. People who already have no chance to enjoy the quality of life that we are so blessed to have. I hope our leaders can find a way to do that. Please understand that I know how very fortunate I am to live in this country. I can worship in the church of my choosing - I can educate myself - I can own a gun (not something I personally choose to do) I can protest policies I don't agree with - I can vote - I can participate in government - I can volunteer - I can serve in the military or be a pacifist. I can do all of this without fear of reprisal. I can enjoy personal freedom that far surpasses what any other country in this world provides it's people. And I am grateful - get down on my knees and thank God grateful. I am thankful that we can even have this discussion because we are in the minority in the global community on that account. And I'm also fearful of the erosion of these freedoms as we all lose sight of what life would be like without them. The separation of church and state ensures that each of us can wrap ourselves in the faith that speaks to our hearts. We can go to the church, synagogue, mosque or other house of worship of our choosing. Or we can stay at home. I abhor any one denigrating anyone's personal beliefs. The fact that people in my own community are shooting out the windows of mosques or targeting ethnic groups sickens me. It repulses me and it destroys everything that this country stands for. We are all going to have to sacrifice some measure of our hard-fought and much-loved personal freedoms now. As a people, we had become gluttonous, naive and arrogant. I hope the resolve of people to sacrifice for the greater good withstands the difficult times to come. As a nation, we have policed the world - we have protected and defended the rights of the oppressed. I hope that those we have empowered will help us now. And for those of us here in this small, little corner of the world, I hope we can all remember that we have far more common ground than disputed territory.
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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-13-01, 01:06 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: If you think OFG's was long .... here's my all-inclusive multi-subject rant! " |
--religious talk snipped--
>We are all going to have
>to sacrifice some measure of
>our hard-fought and much-loved personal
>freedoms now. As a people,
>we had become gluttonous, naive
>and arrogant. I hope the
>resolve of people to sacrifice
>for the greater good withstands
>the difficult times to come.
>As a nation, we have
>policed the world - we
>have protected and defended the
>rights of the oppressed. I
>hope that those we have
>empowered will help us now.
>There is a quote that fits here: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-- Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. (Note: This sentence was often quoted in the Revolutionary period. It occurs even so early as November, 1755, in an answer by the Assembly of Pennsylvania to the Governor, and forms the motto of Franklin's "Historical Review," 1759, appearing also in the body of the work.--Frothingham: Rise of the Republic of the United States, p. 413. )
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-13-01, 12:57 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Separation of church and State" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-13-01 AT 01:13 PM (EST)An ancestor of mine authored the following words: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I mention this because in this terrible time we face many challenges; we must trust the government to respond correctly to these heinous and cowardly acts of war against our nation; we must allow that our military forces, if so directed, exist to perform dirty, horrible tasks when such action has been deemed appropriate and requisite by means of our laws and our Constitution; and we must face the fact that worse horrors may yet ensue. And we must recognize that in the eyes of these terrorist organizations this has always been a holy war. Our objective must and will be to destroy their ability to make war on us; what decisions will be made about how to best accomplish this I cannot guess. But what we cannot do is allow their belief in their holy war to dictate to us a like belief about this war, for us this can and must certainly be a war to protect and ensure the continuing existence of our nation, of government of the people, for the people, and by the people. This horrible tragedy has only just begun. The desire for revenge burns in us all. But revenge cannot be our goal. 
"If the race of man should be left naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few individuals might linger, but in a year would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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