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"TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 10:37 PM (EST)
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"TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"

Poor Leg Design or Brilliant?

That was a weird leg. They started it with no bunching, followed it up by two Roadblocks in a row, and then bunched them (to some degree) with the buses, with only one subtask to go. It was certainly an unconventional design for a leg.

Yet, somehow, it worked. The money situation with the cabs and the traffic allowed for a degree of strategy (and mistakes) when they got to Bangkok. You could question whether they gave them enough money (since Liz/Marie were at the mercy of their expensive driver in Phuket), but that seems to just be an occupational hazard of being on The Amazing Race.

Week 5 Results
1st place - Amani/Marcus (2x)
2nd place - Bill/Cathi (1.8x)
3rd place - Ernie/Cindy (1.4x)
4th place - Justin/Jennifer (1.2x)
5th place - Andy/Tommy (.8x)
6th place - Laurence/Zac (.6x)
7th place - Jeremy/Sandy (.2x)
8th place - Liz/Marie (0x)

Debt Crisis

So here's what I said last week.

I see that we've already settled into our betting patterns for the season. Andy/Tommy and Laurence/Zac are our weekly solid picks, while Jeremy/Sandy (and to some degree Ernie/Cindy) will be the Third Party Option. So far, these teams have been pretty consistent throughout, but you you know someone's going to surprised you eventually! So be careful...

Kind of spooky, eh? It's weird because I know I'll randomly make those kinds of comments when I notice the wagers bunching up, and they very frequently seem to happen right before a rough week for the group. I swear I must be psychic or a medium or something, because CBS ain't giving me the tapes in advance.

Now if only I would follow my own premonitions, I'd be in 1st place right now. Stupid me.

You'd think that with a subpar week, you'd see some huge jumps in the rankings, but it seemed to hit the rankings fairly evenly across the board. This week's Greatest Gainer Award goes to KwietOne who climbed 10 ranks overall to #27 with a smooth Justin/Jennifer bet. Nicely done.

The Perfect Bet Award goes to 5cats (1.35x) who made a very clever 70-point Amani/Marcus bet. You gotta zig when everyone else is zagging, eh?

Leaderboard
1. 5cats - 218
2. michel - 196
3. flipxcyd - 175
4. Yogi - 159
5. Max Headroom - 140
6. ARNutz - 139
7. CTgirl - 131
8. Jims02 - 129
9. beau_30 - 127
10. vennui - 120
11. qwertypie - 117
12. Ontheroadagain - 110
13. samboohoo - 85
14. Starshine - 80
15. alemattos - 76
16. Puffy - 69
17. KwietOne - 68
18. Molaholic - 64
19. louislam - 64
20. Wallflower66 - 64
21. FFantasyFX - 56
22. Weez - 55
23. Snidget - 53
24. Deshawnator11 - 52
25. chiubakka - 51
26. Belle Book - 47
27. Georjanna - 45
28. jbenz - 45
29. esquire - 44
30. IanQuentin - 44
31. cahaya - 40
32. jbug - 38
33. Scuba Steve - 37
34. sarah1234 - 27
35. Element King - 23
36. LeftPinky - 21
37. bbenzenberg - 14
38. MzTee - 11
39. popeave - 9
40. taffnic - 4

Thanks to that Amani/Marcus bet, 5cats has leaped 9 spots to the #1 position. There is still a ton of game left, so you'll never know who might make the leap next! Only time can tell.

Week 6 Payout Table
1st place - 2x
2nd place - 1.5x
3rd place - 1.2x
4th place - .9x
5th place - .8x
6th place - .6x
7th place - 0x

Max Individual Bet - 60 points
Number of Keeper Teams - 2

Keeper Teams are in full-swing now. Here's a link to last week's rules for your reference. Your Keeper Teams from last week will be listed in Post #1 below.

So, if you choose to bet on either of your Keeper Teams from last week AND they finish 1st, then your wager will score 3x instead of 2x. But that's only for 1st place. 2nd place still scores 1.5x like normal.

And don't forget to make new Keeper Team picks each week, even if you don't bother using your ones from last week. You won't have any next week if you don't post any this week, so be careful!

Bonus Game - PAT PAT PAT

Well, of course, we'd start with the PAT Bonus Game right out of the game. This week, if you so desire, players can make a side wager on which team will be the Painfully Average Team (or PAT for short). This is the team that finishes right smack in the middle of the pack, or 4th place for this week.

This is an all-or-nothing bet, so you may only bet on one team for the PAT Bonus wager. If the team you bet on finishes 4th, you win points. If they don't, you lose them. No wager may exceed 10 points however.

All PAT wagers will be subject to the following Payout Table.

PAT's Payout Table
Correct Answer - 7x
Incorrect Answer - 0x

Max Bet - 10 points

And, remember, your Bonus Wager won't affect anything to do with the Keeper Teams. You won't +1 here if you bet one a Keeper Team, and you are free to select any PAT-betted teams as a Keeper Team (assuming they're not in your regular wager too). It's just a side wager only.

TAR19 Teams Remaining
Amani/Marcus
Andy/Tommy
Bill/Cathi
Ernie/Cindy
Jeremy/Sandy
Justin/Jennifer
Laurence/Zac

Good luck!


I just come up with these twists to make my own betting decisions harder each week. Should I chase after the 3x or go with my tried-and-true options? Or maybe pick someone else completely?

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Keeper Teams Jims02 10-26-11 1
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... esquire 10-27-11 2
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... KwietOne 10-28-11 3
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... cahaya 10-28-11 4
   RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... cahaya 10-30-11 21
       RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Jims02 10-30-11 34
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Scuba Steve 10-28-11 5
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... MzTee 10-28-11 6
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... jbug 10-28-11 7
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Belle Book 10-28-11 8
 New keeper teams? Jims02 10-28-11 9
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Georjanna 10-29-11 10
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Starshine 10-29-11 11
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Weez 10-29-11 12
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... flipxcyd 10-29-11 13
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Puffy 10-29-11 14
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Max Headroom 10-29-11 15
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... 5cats 10-29-11 16
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... IanQuentin 10-29-11 17
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... taffnic 10-29-11 18
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... popeave 10-30-11 19
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... samboohoo 10-30-11 20
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... bbenzenberg 10-30-11 22
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... jbenz 10-30-11 23
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Molaholic 10-30-11 24
   RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Molaholic 10-30-11 41
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... louislam 10-30-11 25
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... ARnutz 10-30-11 26
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... beau_30 10-30-11 27
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... FFantasyFX 10-30-11 28
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Snidget 10-30-11 29
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... LeftPinky 10-30-11 30
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Wallflower66 10-30-11 31
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Ontheroadagain 10-30-11 32
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... alemattos 10-30-11 33
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... sarah1234 10-30-11 35
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Jims02 10-30-11 36
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Element King 10-30-11 37
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... Yogi 10-30-11 38
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... vennui 10-30-11 39
 RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results... michel 10-30-11 40

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-11, 10:43 PM (EST)
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1. "Keeper Teams"
I will figure out how to do a chart eventually, to make this look, well, less awful. But here's the list, sorted by current ranking.

5cats - Justin/Jennifer - Laurence/Zac
michel - Ernie/Cindy - Laurence/Zac
flipxcyd - Laurence/Zac - Amani/Marcus
Yogi - Ernie/Cindy - Liz/Marie
Max Headroom - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
ARNutz - Ernie/Cindy - Amani/Marcus
CTgirl - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
Jims02 - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
beau_30 - Jeremy/Sandy - Ernie/Cindy
vennui - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
qwertypie - (none) -
Ontheroadagain - Laurence/Zac - Ernie/Cindy
samboohoo - Laurence/Zac - Andy/Tommy
Starshine - Laurence/Zac -
alemattos - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
Puffy - Justin/Jennifer - Jeremy/Sandy
KwietOne - Andy/Tommy - Laurence/Zac
Molaholic - Ernie/Cindy - Amani/Marcus
louislam - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
Wallflower66 - Amani/Marcus -
FFantasyFX - Andy/Tommy - Ernie/Cindy
Weez - (none) -
Snidget - Laurence/Zac - Ernie/Cindy
Deshawnator11 - (none) -
chiubakka - Ernie/Cindy - Jeremy/Sandy
Belle Book - Ernie/Cindy - Amani/Marcus
Georjanna - Laurence/Zac - Amani/Marcus
jbenz - Ernie/Cindy - Laurence/Zac
esquire - Andy/Tommy - Ernie/Cindy
IanQuentin - (none) -
cahaya - Laurence/Zac -
jbug - Laurence/Zac - Andy/Tommy
Scuba Steve - Andy/Tommy - Justin/Jennifer
sarah1234 - Andy/Tommy - Ernie/Cindy
Element King - (none) -
LeftPinky - Andy/Tommy - Ernie/Cindy
bbenzenberg - Ernie/Cindy - Amani/Marcus
MzTee - (none) -
popeave - Andy/Tommy - Justin/Jennifer
taffnic - Andy/Tommy - Ernie/Cindy


A 2003 IceCat original

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esquire 1089 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-11, 00:26 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
All 44 on Andy/Tommy
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KwietOne 1083 desperate attention whore postings
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10-28-11, 00:47 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 00:08 AM (EST)

60 Justin/Jennifer

8 PAT on Andy/Tommy

KEEPER TEAMS: Ernie/Cindy & Bill/Cathi

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10-28-11, 10:55 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
30 on Andy/Tommy
10 PAT on Bill/Cathi
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10-30-11, 11:05 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Still a little fuzzy on the keeper rules but if there's no penalties involved and I can pick them next week...

Laurence & Zac and Ernie & Cindy

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10-30-11, 06:54 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Yep, those picks are just fine since you didn't bet on either team this week. Just think of the Keeper Teams as speculative picks for next week. You don't necessarily have to use them, but they'll be there in case you want to.


A 2003 IceCat original

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10-28-11, 11:05 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
All in on Andy/Tommy.


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10-28-11, 02:17 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Justin/Jennifer 11pts
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10-28-11, 03:23 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
All 38 on Justin/Jennifer
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10-28-11, 07:50 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 12:45 PM (EST)

24 points on Justin & Jennifer
& 23 points on Ernie & Cindy.

New Keeper Teams: Amani and Marcus and Laurence & Zac.


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10-28-11, 08:02 PM (EST)
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9. "New keeper teams?"
Since the first few entries are all missing new Keeper Team picks for next week, I figured I'd re-post this reminder from the entry:

And don't forget to make new Keeper Team picks each week, even if you don't bother using your ones from last week. You won't have any next week if you don't post any this week, so be careful!

Hopefully I didn't jumble up the rules too much and make it confusing.


A 2003 IceCat original

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10-29-11, 04:29 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Beginning ~ 45

PAT (10) ~ Bill and Cathi
Keeper Team (35) ~ Amani and Marcus

New Keeper Teams ~
Andy and Tommy
Ernie and Cindy

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10-29-11, 09:11 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
10 PATs on Jeremy/Sandy

35 on Laurence/Zac (last weeks keeper)
35 on Justin/Jennifer

Keeper Teams: Amani/Marcus and Andy/Tommy

Lovely cheese Mooney

Just another Sleeperbloke


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10-29-11, 10:55 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Andy/Tommy - 44 points
PAT - 10 points on Laurence/Zac
Keeper team - Amani/Marcus
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10-29-11, 02:08 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 02:09 PM (EST)

60 Andy/Tommy
60 Justin/Jennifer

10 PAT on Bill/Cathi

KEEPER TEAMS:

Bill/Cathi
Ernie/Cindy

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10-29-11, 05:27 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 05:27 PM (EST)

Each week I find that I made some mistake on my betting, but I'm learning. Here goes:
Last week's keeper team: Justin and Jennifer-bet 20
Last week's keeper team: Jeremy and Sandy-bet 10
Andy and Tommy-bet 30

New Keeper Teams:
Laurence and Zach
Marcus and Amani

PAT
Bill and Cathi-bet 9





agman spooked me, 2011



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10-29-11, 05:45 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 07:52 PM (EST)

60 - Andy/Tommy
60 - Ernie/Cindy
20 - Justin/Jennifer

New keepers - Laurence/Zac, Jeremy/Sandy

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10-29-11, 07:58 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 07:47 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 08:31PM (EST)

Betting now as it's snowing hard and we've been warned about losing elec.
Andy/Tommy = 60
Justin/Jen = 60
Zac/Laurence = 30

PAT = Jeremy/Sandy (10)

Keeper Teams:
Jeremy/Sandy
Ernie/Cyndy


May change if I am able to tomorrow
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10-29-11, 08:18 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
34 points on Ernie/Cindy

10 points on Laurence/Zac as PAT.

Keepers: Andy/Tommy, Laurence/Zac

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18. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
All in on Andy/Tommy


an Agman creation

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10-30-11, 01:19 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Bet it all on Justin and Jennifer.

Next week's keeper teams: Amani/Marcus and Andy Tommy

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20. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
85

30 on Andy & Tommy (Keeper Bet)
30 on Ernie & Cindy

PAT

25 on Bill & Cathi

Keeper Team for next week: Amani & Marcus


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


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10-30-11, 12:13 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 12:42 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 12:41PM (EST)

14 to start

7 on Ernie/Cindy (last week's keeper)
7 on Amani/Marcus (last week's keeper)

Keeper Teams
Andy/Tommy
Jeremy/Sandy

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23. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 12:41 PM (EST)

45 points

20 on Andy/Tommy
10 on Ernie/Cindy (Last week's keeper team)
10 on Zac/Laurence (Last week's keeper team)


PAT:
5 on Justin/Jennifer


Keeper Teams:
Bill/Cathy
Justin/Jennifer

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10-30-11, 01:16 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
64 to bet

Amani & Marcus 30
Justin & Jennifer 30

PAT - Bill & Cathi 4

New Keeper Teams:
Laurence & Zac, Ernie & Cindy



Halloween 2011 courtesy of Agman

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41. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Maybe needed reminder -- Amani & Marcus were on my keeper list last time...
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25. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
19. louislam - 64

30 on Jeremy/Sandy
30 on Justin/Jennifer

Keeper Teams - Andy/Tommy and Ernie/Cindy

PAT - 4 on Ernie/Cindy

The Amazing Race Fan from Hong Kong!

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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 02:45 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
60 - Andy/Tommy
60 - Justin/Jennifer

No PAT - bank the rest.

Keepers - Ernie/Cindy & Amani/Marcus (keeping the same keepers, LOL!)

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beau_30 943 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 02:46 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
127 to bet

10 on bill and Catholic For PAT

117 left
60 on Andy/Tommy
30 on Justin/Jennifer

keeper teamster
ernie/cindy and Laurence/Zac

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FFantasyFX 1011 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 02:58 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
45 points on Andy/Tommy
1 point on Ernie/Cindy

PAT Bonus: 10 points on Laurence/Zac

New Keeper Teams: Laurence/Zac & Amani/Marcus

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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 03:38 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
23. Snidget - 53

Snidget - Laurence/Zac - Ernie/Cindy

Laurence/Zac--25
Ernie/Cindy--25

PAT 1 point on Justin/Jennifer

Keeper Teams Andy/Tommy, Amani/Marcus

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LeftPinky 4150 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 03:48 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
16 on Andy/Tommy
5 on Ernie & Cindy for PAT side bet...

Next week's keeper teams - Justin & Jennifer and Laurence/Zac

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Wallflower66 2394 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 04:03 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 04:03 PM (EST)

30 on Amani/ Marcus (Keeper)
30 on Andy/Tommy
4 PAT on Jeremy/Sandy
Keeper team for next week: Laurence/Zach

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Ontheroadagain 923 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 04:09 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
12. Ontheroadagain - 110

50 on Ernie/Cindy
50 on Justin/Jennifer

PAT -- 10 on Laurence/Zac

Keepers -- Andy/Tommy and Amani/Marcus



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alemattos 59 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 06:36 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
40 Justin/Jennifer
30 Ernie/Cindy (last week's keeper team)

PAT: 6 Andy/Tommy

Keeper teams:
Laurence/Zac
Andy/Tommy

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sarah1234 107 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 07:08 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Well, that was a terrible round for me!

sarah1234 - 27

Ernie/Cindy - 11
Andy/Tommy - 11
(both my keeper teams, why not?)

PAT - Jeremy/Sandy - 5 points


Keeper teams for next week:
Justin/Jennifer
Laurence/Zac

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 07:10 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 07:17 PM (EST)

I'm not really digging Jeremy/Sandy this week, so it really comes down to Ernie/Cindy if I want to chase after that 3x...

129 points to play.

60 points - Andy/Tommy
59 points - Laurence/Zac

PAT
10 points - Ernie/Cindy

Keepers
Amani/Marcus & Ernie/Cindy


Edited because I changed my mind. Forget hedging that PAT bet.

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Element King 72 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 07:15 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Laurence/Zac 23pts
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Yogi 1139 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 07:36 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Justin/Jennifer x 60
Andy/Tommy x 60
Laurence/Zac x 29

PAT Bill/Cathi x 10

Keepers - Ernie/Cindy, Jeremy/Sandy


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vennui 694 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 07:37 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 07:41 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 10-30-11 AT 07:39PM (EST)

120 points
40 Andy/Tommy
30 Cindi/ernni
40 Justin/Jennifer

10 PAT on Bill/Cathi

keepers lawrence and zac / Amani and Marcus

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-11, 07:45 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: TAR19 Casino Game - Wk5 Results / Wk6 Entry"
Andy/Tommy - 60 points
Laurence/Zac - 60 points


PAT Bill/Cathi 10 points

Keeper teams - Ernie/Cindy, Jeremy/Sandy


Ils sont fous, ces Romains!

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