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"Discouraging Casting :'( "
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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 10:51 AM (EST)
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"Discouraging Casting :'( "
A topic many seem to be oblivious to is the blatant prejudism on this show. I have always wanted to be on a reality show (Real World, Road Rules, etc.) when I saw they were still casting for Love Cruise, I jumped at the opportunity, not knowing what the show was really about. That evening I caught the first episode and to my dismay, I saw one black couple and one Jewish couple among a bunch of whites. Don't get me wrong, I AM NOT RACIST by any means, but you have to realize how frustruating it is to see casting like that on a reality show. Then when couples were selected the black couple remained together, not originally by choice, but because they were left. Also, when cliques began to develop they (Adrian and Tomiko)did not alienate themselves from others - they were forced to support each other because the rest of the ship - "the non-blacks" were looking out for one another. -With regards to Jeannette, I think she is hispanic not black, but she really didn't seen to fit in either.- I don't like to play the race card, because many times when people do they come off sounding ignorant, but if you really look at the way relationships developed on this boat, a lot of unintentional prejudisms took place here. I say unintentional because I don't think these people were aware of their actions, its not until you sit back and watch and have it pointed out to you that you realize. I agree with SLEEVE in his predictions to the end. I am saddened though, because though Tomiko seems to be a nice woman, she and Adrian never stood a chance from the beginning. Concluding with my introduction about wanting to be on Love Cruise 2, though I know I am a beautiful and fun black woman, I am discouraged because it seems my color predetermines my place on the boat and rank among other shipmates.
*These are my heartfelt thoughts, I invite your opinions and hope that I did not offend anyone. God Bless*
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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( SurvivorBlows 10-03-01 1
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 2
       RE: Discouraging Casting :'( SurvivorBlows 10-03-01 3
           RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 6
               RE: Discouraging Casting :'( SurvivorBlows 10-03-01 7
                   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 8
                       RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Thrill Seeker 10-03-01 10
                       RE: Discouraging Casting :'( desert_rhino 10-03-01 11
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( issacthebartender 10-03-01 39
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Thrill Seeker 10-03-01 4
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 5
       RE: Troll... desert_rhino 10-03-01 9
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( MicowOverboard 10-03-01 12
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 15
       RE: Discouraging Casting :'( MicowOverboard 10-03-01 17
           RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 21
               RE: Discouraging Casting :'( MicowOverboard 10-03-01 24
                   How's this? Brooke 10-03-01 29
                       RE: How's this? MicowOverboard 10-03-01 31
                           RE: How's this? Brooke 10-03-01 33
                               RE: How's this? MicowOverboard 10-03-01 34
                                   RE: How's this? Brooke 10-03-01 35
                                       RE: How's this? MicowOverboard 10-03-01 36
                                           RE: How's this? Brooke 10-03-01 37
                                               RE: How's this? MicowOverboard 10-03-01 40
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( VampKira 10-03-01 13
   Actually this is for everyone Brooke 10-03-01 14
       RE: Actually this is for everyone VampKira 10-03-01 16
           You are cool with me Vamp Brooke 10-03-01 20
       RE: Actually this is for everyone Thrill Seeker 10-03-01 18
           Sticks and Stones (Idiot) Brooke 10-03-01 19
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Survivorchick 10-03-01 22
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Brooke 10-03-01 23
       Discouraging Casting ?? ManOfTheSeas 10-03-01 25
           RE: Discouraging Casting ?? MicowOverboard 10-03-01 26
               RE: Discouraging Casting ?? ManOfTheSeas 10-03-01 30
                   RE: Discouraging Casting ?? Brooke 10-03-01 32
                       RE: Discouraging Casting ?? Thrill Seeker 10-03-01 42
           RE: Discouraging Casting ?? Brooke 10-03-01 27
               To Brooke AyaK 10-03-01 38
           password true 10-03-01 28
   You know SChick... Mon Cherie 10-03-01 41
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( desert_rhino 10-03-01 43
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( samiam 10-03-01 44
   RE: Discouraging Casting :'( Monkeyboy 10-03-01 45
       well... AyaK 10-03-01 46
       RE: Discouraging Casting :'( desert_rhino 10-03-01 47
           Agree AyaK 10-03-01 49
       RE: Discouraging Casting :'( samiam 10-03-01 48
 So you're sick of discussing this i... Brooke 10-04-01 50
 RE: Discouraging Casting :'( kidhell 10-10-01 51
   Good explanation Kidhell Thrill Seeker 10-12-01 52

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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:01 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
LAST EDITED ON 10-03-01 AT 11:05 AM (EST)

Hi Brooke, we already discussed this in length, see:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID19/87.shtml

...one comment though -- I find it interesting that the only people who seem to be bringing this up are apparently REJECTED APPLICANTS and not upset minority viewers. Is this a real concern or just a bit of a cover for some "sour grapes"

-SB

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:03 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Thanks for your positivity my friend, but I am not a REJECTED APPLICANT. I declined.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:10 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
You declined?

You had stated "I have always wanted to be on a reality show (Real World, Road Rules, etc.) when I saw they were still casting for Love Cruise, I jumped at the opportunity, not knowing what the show was really about."

Why did you decline if you suddenly had your chance at a life-long wish? And here's a question -- if they were interested in you, by declining, are you not contributing to the very problem you're citing? ...for every fewer minority applicant, that's one fewer chance of another minority being cast.

-SB

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:26 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Do you ever say anything positive?? Or like your title "Survivor Blows" are you just out to bash? I notice the breast cancer and America ribbon do you really promote better health and a united country or are you the bigoted hypocrit your postings illustrate?
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:31 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Are you going to answer the question or just avoid it?

I am trying to have a positive conversation, but all you seem concerned with is accusing everyone of being racist bigots. Suddenly I can see why the producers would have liked you, the "angry black woman" is always a good reality tv show cast if you're looking for some conflict.

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:39 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Well, if you really MUST go there, it seems blacks are typecasted on these shows. Militant black girls, gay black people, bi-racial blacks, and conceited jock types (Adrian, whom I actually liked). I would just like to see us "regular" blacks represented more. Some of the others especially militant ones, give us all a bad name.
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Thrill Seeker 220 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:01 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
>it seems blacks are
>typecasted on these shows.
>Militant black girls, gay black
>people,

---Now that's not fair picking on Alicia and Nick like that.

>actually liked). I would
>just like to see us
>"regular" blacks represented more.
>Some of the others especially
>militant ones, give us all
>a bad name.

---Exactly what is a "regular" black? Is a gay, militant, or athletic black not "regular"? Adrian and Tomika seemed regular to me.


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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:02 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Well, *YOU* have implied that you had a chance to be on the show, and declined. Griping about YOU not being represented AFTER THAT, sounds incredibly ... hmmm.... can't think of a better way to say this: STUPID, IGNORANT, and TROLLISH.

YMMV

-- JV

"What rage for fame attends both great and small!
Better be damned than mentioned not at all." --John Wolcot (1738–1819)

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issacthebartender 4 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 04:26 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
I am a minority viewer and I understand what Brooke is saying but it is kind of a mute point. Minorities in ALL settings are always at a disadvantage whether they are black, hispanic, polynesian, non-Chicagoan, etc. That's a know fact so there is no point discussing it in this particular forum.
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Thrill Seeker 220 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:11 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
I hate to be a nit-picker, but I think the word you are after is either prejudicism, prejudicious or prejudicial. Anyway, I don't see anyway they can make things completely even because even if there was another black couple or two, what about equal representation asians, hispanics, or eskimos? Maybe it could only be fair for all the contestants if they were all of the same race, and that wouldn't be fair either.
I don't think you can blame the producers for there being a variety of races that can't all realistically be represented.
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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:21 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Sorry, left Webster's at home today. (I never said I was perfect, thank you for being the all knowing one - is it Omniscient?)Anyway, here's a thought, since everything is interactive, why can we, the viewers, vote online and pick contestants ourselves? Hmmmmm.
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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:48 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Troll..."
Troll:

In Usenet usage, a troll is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers-by, but rather a provocative posting to a newsgroup intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses. The content of a "troll posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction of common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of a newsgroup, or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings. There are three reasons why people troll newsgroups:

People post such messages to get attention, to disrupt newsgroups, and simply to make trouble

(emphasis is mine)

-- JV


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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:08 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Brooke,

(a) There is already a thread about prejudice in casting for the "Love Cruise." (See "Where is the Balance?") Why didn't you just post there.

(b) Why did you "decline" to represent your race on "Love Cruise?" How could you possibly have known that cliques would develop and that the black couple would not have a chance to win?

(c) How many blacks would have to be on the show to make you happy?

(d) If you will recall, in the first episode, when the girls made their choices, Tomiko made her selection of Adrian only AFTER she was rejected by Anthony. She STILL had an opportunity at that point to choose Michael, but apparently SHE was prejudiced against him for being . Adrian was not chosen by the other women because he made a bad first impression on them, coming off as (surprise surprise) cocky, arrogant and maybe even chauvinistic? In the second episode's "choosing" part, you will recall that Adrian had an opportunity to switch partners, but he and Tomiko had made the decision to stick together. They just did not make an effort to mix until the 4th episode.

Brooke, you just don't have any ground to stand on.

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:40 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
A.) Didn't see post until after I started mine.
B.) I realized it was not for me. I don't like to star in "token" roles. (Sorry, but you asked.)
C.) I don't know maybe 15! No, honestly I wish viewers could select shipmates. That's not about race, but what WE want to see. Who knows, maybe the ratings would be better. Just a thought.
D.) Please re-read, SLOWLY, what I wrote in the original message. I feel they knew they had to stick together after that and they even discuss it in the cabin on one of the episodes.
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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:53 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Brooke,

You conveniently did not address the fact that Tomiko had a chance to choose Michael right at the beginning, but she did not. You also never indicated how you knew you were declining a "token" role. I guess you were privy to information no one else was given (i.e., the racial make-up of the cast) BEFORE you declined.

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:15 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
callate!
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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:48 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Brooke, I noticed a trend in your answers to everyone. You ingratiate yourself to those who agree with you and/or don't have an opinion. Those who question you or your opinions do not get straight answers to their questions, although you encouraged EVERYONE to post their opinions in your original post. Why didn't you just go ahead and say "this is my opinion and I only want to hear from those who agree with me?"
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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:07 PM (EST)
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29. "How's this?"
Well let me take the time now to say thank you to all of you who attacked my opinions, and were quick to judge and insult me. Without you this forum wouldn't be so exciting!
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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:18 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: How's this?"
Brooke,

Thank YOU for proving my point by STILL refusing to answer questions.

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:21 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: How's this?"
What questions?????
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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:27 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: How's this?"
My post #12 has been edited. I was wondering why Tomiko chose Adrian over Michael on the first episode. I listed three possible reasons but they have been removed (I suspect because someone found them insulting to Michael, but I did not intend them that way).
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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:38 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: How's this?"
Well, I'm not sure what you said, but from what I said in my original message, the only two couples left were the black and jewish. I don't know why she went to Adrian, perhaps the same reason why Lisa went to "The Chestmaster" (Just kidding), Michael. They went to their own kind. HOLD ON before you freak out on me. Everybody went to their own kind in the first episode (I know Jeannete isn't white, she's just weird -- but that's another post)and that was really the point in my comment about prejudices EVERYONE did it. (I did say it was unintentional or subconscious)But I felt Tamiko/Adrian and Lisa/Michael were forced to do it a more than the other couples were.
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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:52 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: How's this?"
Brooke,

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject. I just don't see how Tomiko was "forced" to choose Adrian over Michael. I believe Michael would have chosen Tomiko if he had a choice of Tomiko and Lisa, but that can't be proven.

Anyway, I am sorry that you put me into the category of those who you think attacked you. That was not my intent. I was debating you, not attacking. I saw on another thread that you think there are racists here. I am going to stop posting on this subject to avoid being labeled as a racist because I am not.

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 04:09 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: How's this?"
That's cool, have a nice evening.
I don't recall using "racist," I may have used other ugly words, but I don't know anyone on here to call them racist. I think a lot of views are prejudiced - as are some of mine. It seems people on both sides are sensitive when it comes to the issue of race. Thus, some are quick to defend shows and label me as angry, while others (like myself and needjah) are quick to point out the imbalances in the races. This will ALWAYS be an issue, but its interesting to get other people's take on it as it is to vent my own feelings. I think you took "forced" too literally. I simply meant they had only their own to choose from. I didn't say it was wrong or right, I just pointed out how everyone ended up with their own race after the first round.
On a side note, I would have picked Michael first (and kept him)though I think Adrian is sexy to death. I would have picked Mike because he seems to be the most strategic out of the bunch, but I think his feelings were hurt which clouded his judgement, making him look like more of a jerk than a mastermind.
Sorry to see ya go, DEBATING is good - and healthy!
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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 05:21 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: How's this?"
Brooke, I am back to continue our healthy debate. I was referring to your post in another thread, as follows:

"I totally agree with you. It makes me wonder about the people who post replys to your message/and mine. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the same folks who attack Arab people and their stores just to feel patriotic. Their day will come. You have to wonder about people who support and defend racism and bigotry in AMERICA!"

I may have misunderstood your post, but I think that people who support and defend racism and bigotry are racists. Don't know if you were refering to those on this Board who posted in reply to this thread or not. If not, then I was wrong to say I was being labeled as a racist.

I thought that Tomiko chose Adrian over Michael because of Michael's looks, so my original point was that everyone on the ship may be discriminated against in one way or another. That fact does not make discrimination right, but I am not sure how many black people could be added to the show to make it more even-handed to you. You say that you would like the audience to choose the contestants, but the racial make-up of the audience would still be likely to influence their decisions.

I am getting off my soapbox now. Thanks for your civil reply. My primary reason for wanting to end the debate was the angry tone of this thread. I am here primarily for fun, and I am new here, so I did not want to get caught up in an ugly argument.

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VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:10 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Wowie!

Brooke.... I dunno what to say. Originally I had decided to say nothing.. but. *sigh* It seems you are angry.. I am not here to tell you you shouldn't be. I dunno your issues. But one thing I would like you to keep in mind, is that you should be careful in making snap judgements against people.. ESPECIALLY our Webmaster. He is the most fair, and UNpredjudiced person here perhaps. Not that Webby needs my two cents.. or me to speak for him.. I would not even begin to think I could do that.. I guess what I am trying to say, is that it seems you have alot of anger.. and have chosen here to vent it.. That's fine.. but as I have said before.. you WILL recieve different opinions other than yours. It's great to see so many new peeps here.. even those with differing views. I just hope you can agree to disagree with people, and that this board can become a positive place for you.

Vampy- Who wonders if AK had more influence over her than she thought...


"The trick is to keep breathing...." - Garbage

Du ar min hjälte, Supermänniska!


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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:31 PM (EST)
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14. "Actually this is for everyone"
I know a lot of you are not going to agree with me, and I respect your opinions. I do find it a little amusing the way a lot of you like to point out how "angry" and wrong I am, but you are quick to use insults to make your point. All that really does is reinforce mine people! I read and understand what ya'll have posted, but have you really even tried to understand where I may be coming from? Or are you just as quick to judge and dismiss me? Am I just another "angry" black person? That predjudice lies within YOU, not me.
And I don't need any spelling corrections, or definitions (Troll) thank you!
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VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 12:49 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Actually this is for everyone"
LAST EDITED ON 10-03-01 AT 12:52 PM (EST)

>>I do find it a little amusing the way a lot of you like to point out how "angry" and wrong I am, but you are quick to use insults to make your point.<<

I NEVER said you were wrong.. angry.. yes, because that is the feeling I get.. I am sorry if that is off base. Also.. I never insulted you.. ( you replied to my post, so I am responding.. )

>>All that really does is reinforce mine people! I read and understand what ya'll have posted, but have you really even tried to understand where I may be coming from?<<

Yeah.. I DO understand.. I have been the victim of bigotry.. More then you could know, considering I am the whitest of white.. I know MY experiences cannot compare to what you may have experienced... No doubt.. But I DID have black boyfriends in my life, and had to deal with the remarks from that.. I didn't give a rat's ass.. still don't. I also am the BIGGEST Michael Jackson fan out there.. you think that maks ME popular?? I am always defending myself against my love of him.. Ok.. I KNOW this doesn't matter one iota.. but I had to put in my two cents.. that's the way I am. Just don't want you making any snap judgements.......



"See it's not about races, just places, faces.. it's where your blood comes from, it's where your space is. I've seen the bright get duller.. I'm not gonna spend my life bein' a color!" -Michael Jackson

Du ar min hjälte, Supermänniska!


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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:09 PM (EST)
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20. "You are cool with me Vamp"
And it would be nice if there were more people out there like you.

"Just don't want you making any snap judgements."
What about everyone who responded to my post? What do you want for them?

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10-03-01, 12:59 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Actually this is for everyone"
Brooke, you are one angry troll!

I actually wasn't meaning to correct your spelling, but when I saw your post intitially about "prejudism", I thought it had something to do with a culture that came before jews. When I read it, I quickly realized that it was not about cro-magnon men, but about racism. I just couldn't look at that word again.

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:06 PM (EST)
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19. "Sticks and Stones (Idiot)"
If you would READ rather than jumping on the "let's yell at Brooke Wagon" I used PREJUDICE rather than racist because I don't believe anyone on the boat to be racist. We all have prejudices (sp?) some we might not be aware of, I was simply pointing out one that was obvious on the show from a viewing stand point, but probably not to those on the boat.
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Survivorchick 1161 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:31 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Brooke

Thanks for posting your concerns. Welcome to the boards - I've been reading this thread and I'm sorry everyone has been so hard on you. I don't think you are particularily "angry". I would be defensive as well if people treated me the way that you are being treated in this thread.

Anyway, I really have nothing to add that hasn't already been said in the other thread on this topic. I'm in agreement with the statement that nobody ever comes off looking good after these shows - especially one as cheesy and gratuitous as Love Cruise. It is perhaps a good thing that black people are underrepresented in this trashy form of entertainment

Survivorchick

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:34 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Thanks Survior Chick! I appreciate your positive message!
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ManOfTheSeas 6 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 01:50 PM (EST)
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25. "Discouraging Casting ??"
Okay maybe I can add a little to this.. Brooke, can you tell us any of the casting directors that interviewed with you? I'm interested to know who you talked to that declined you. Was it Brent? Brent is the only Casting Director from Love Cruise that is on the boards... or at least has admitted to it. So maybe he can shed some light on all of this.

Second of all... people in general really don't understand how many white vs. ethnic backgrounds apply to these shows. It's unreal and sad how many people that should apply for these shows but don't. It would be so much easier if it was "PC" to advertise we want a good black man or a great Hispanic woman that has a story to tell (obviously it seems for a show like this beauty is important as well). Though of course casting can't do that. Can you IMAGINE the backlash shows would get? A lot of people think they do have stories to tell but end up sitting in interviews saying nothing.

Brent told a story once about casting for the first love cruise and how they were looking down the streets of Melrose Ave to find a good black man and luckily finding Adrian.

So if you applied and got turned down then either 1) they loved you and you didn't like the show 2) they declined you because you didn't fit the mold in casting they wanted or 3) it's all a fabrication. Personally I'm not accusing you of anything. I think you have some great valid points and am glad someone is sticking up and saying what they feel on the issue of casting. Just keep in mind the ratio of people that apply. It's not something that is made public but needs to change if reality TV wants to continue. People from all walks of life NEED to apply!

BTW admins... can we change our login password? My password looks like a top secret missile defense code!

-Man

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MicowOverboard 19 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 02:00 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Discouraging Casting ??"
Man,

Brooke did not say she was declined. She said she declined to be on the show because she did not want to be the "token" minority member. That implied that she was invited to be on the show but turned it down.

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ManOfTheSeas 6 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:15 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Discouraging Casting ??"
Sorry, I didn't look at my post (I knew she said she declined, I just didn’t love over the wording in my post). My whole point I was trying to reach was it Brent she declined to? I suppose in the end it doesn't matter if she's telling the truth or not. At this point I will believe that she is who she says is, and that she did decline.

Unfortunately it is sad that you did decline. It is clear you have strong opinions and are quite articulate. You should have gone on because you prolly would have made a great cast member. It's frustrating because you can draw comparisons in people that are angry with their government but refuse to vote. So I go by the comment that if you want change then make change happen.

-Man

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 03:20 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Discouraging Casting ??"
Point well taken, my friend! Perhaps I'll heed your advice the next time around.
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Thrill Seeker 220 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 05:55 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Discouraging Casting ??"
Brooke,
When i read your initial post, I actually agreed with you that Adrian and Tomika were at a disadvantage being the only black couple. I posted that on Needjah's thread too. I think this topic just brings out strong opinions from people and you are in the center.
Welcome!
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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 02:06 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Discouraging Casting ??"
I decided Love Cruise 2 was not for me after watching the 1st episode of LC1. (Said this already and why). If Brent is out there, let the viewers pick the shipmates, or atleast let me pick em I think folks would be satisfied, and I wouldn't have to vent on your message board!
If this "Brent" is on the message board, look through your papers, you should know who I really am, by my posts.
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AyaK 8129 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 04:26 PM (EST)
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38. "To Brooke"
LAST EDITED ON 10-03-01 AT 04:27 PM (EST)

The poster "kidhell" is the "Brent" being referred to (if you know him, you know the reason for his user name); he has not been part of this discussion so far.

And to Man of the Seas: true had it right. Go to the USER icon, and you will find a routine to change your password. Thanks, true!

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true 9681 desperate attention whore postings
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28. "password"
Hey Man,

I'm not admins here, but I think I can help you. Just click on the little head in the top right corner of your post (profile). Then click on (User). There you will find the option to change your password.

Good Luck!

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Mon Cherie 1811 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 05:38 PM (EST)
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41. "You know SChick..."
The more I know about you the more I think we were separated at birth!
And to Brooke- Welcome to the board, it can be rocky at times, and I think most of us have had to agree to disagree about something one time or another.

Mon Cherie

"Time goes by so fast, people go in and out of your life. You must never miss the opportunity to tell these people how much they mean to you."
-"Cheers"

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 06:25 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
They're not under-represented, SC. 2 of 16 is just abouit right. Hell, there's some debate as to whether it's 2 or 3 out of 16. So possibly dark-skinned-americans are over-represented. Hmm.... Maybe I should piss and moan about it. Nah. Surely big fat white slobs are under-represented. Gays and Lesbians, too. <sigh>

And Brooke has more than earned any ire she's received.

-- JV

"What rage for fame attends both great and small!
Better be damned than mentioned not at all." --John Wolcot (1738–1819)

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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 06:54 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
I don't like to play the race card, because many times when people do they come off sounding ignorant
Yes. Yes, they do.

The folks of color are only at a "disadvantage" if everyone else on the ship is *against* them. However, I see alliances and attachments that have formed across lines of color. All of the applicants had to be willing to "date" someone of a different racial/cultural background than themselves or they wouldn't have been cast. And if you find yourself worrying that the rest of the people on the boat are involved in some kind of unspoken coalition specifically aimed at voting ethnic/cultural minorities off, then YOU need to check in with your OWN biases. Give me SOME rational evidence that someone's race played ANY kind of part in their being voted off, rather than projecting YOUR feelings onto the cast members, and I'll give your point some thought.


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Monkeyboy 1224 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 10:28 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
I've got to agree with Brooke!
Since this game is partially about dating and maybe making a love connection, the black couple would be at a disadvantage when it came to "hooking up" with people from another race.

The race issue doesn't really apply to the other reality games though.

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AyaK 8129 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:14 PM (EST)
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46. "well..."
It certainly wasn't an issue for Alicia in S2, due to her quick partnership with Jeff Varner. It may well have been a factor in Ramona's quick boot in S1, though (remember, MB said he had picked her as the likely winner, and she seems to have been a rarity: a reality show contestant who wasn't a budding media whore) -- although the fact that she was mature enough to not join Greg and his gang of juvenile pirates counted against her too. Gervase and Nick were UTR-types, who weren't going to win in any case.

For real-world comments on mixed dating, see this post by Ioway describing his experiences as part of a mixed couple. Certainly, as samiam says, the contestants on Love Cruise have to be more open to mixed dating than the society as a whole -- but to expect them to bring no personal and societal biases along with them is to expect too much.

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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:18 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Oh really?

That's funny, I seem to see "mixed" associating there, munkybutt. But then again, maybe I'm imagining things. Nah, the Indian woman I went out with was definitely from India... I think I can tell what people regard as "mixed." Personally, I find it horribly offensive that people feel a need to DRAW "racial" distinctions. Those who fought for equality in the 60s, and DIDN'T sell out to "quotas" and "tokens" would be disgusted.

But, as always, YMMV.

-- JV

"What rage for fame attends both great and small!
Better be damned than mentioned not at all." --John Wolcot (1738–1819)

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AyaK 8129 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:51 PM (EST)
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49. "Agree"
rhino, I do agree with you that many of the people who fought for equality in the 1960s would be horrified by where we are today -- with rampant quotas (aka "affirmative action programs") and tokenism. One of the best stories I ever heard about this was told by Judge Harry Edwards, who just retired as chief judge of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, and I apologize for the fact that I can't remember it better.

Judge Edwards said that when he graduated from the University of Michigan Law School, people recognized that a black man who had made it through law school must be a solid achiever with good goals, and lots of law firms wanted to hire him. By contrast, when his son graduated from a similarly prestigious law school (Yale, I believe), he was amazed to find out that most law firms denigrated the achievement of his son and his son's friends of color ... because they were so accustomed to underachieving blacks being churned out by these schools in the name of diversity.

My own example: in my "small" subsection at Harvard Law (47 students), there were lots of Asians, Jews, Mormons, a couple of Latinos, and only one black. Within this subsection, there was little doubt which student stood at the very top ... and unfortunately, there was also little doubt which student stood at the very bottom. Are we really achieving anything of value by the tokenism obviously present in those circumstances?

But that's a story for another day. For today, I'll just say that the "color-blind" society seems to have gotten a little closer ... but nowhere near as close as it should be. Color preferences undermine the underlying myth of America -- that ability determines advancement -- and turn underlying prejudices into a distorted reality.

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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-01, 11:26 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Again, I ask why? Why in the world would they be at a disadvantage for "hooking up" with someone from another race, when all contestants stated that they would be willing to do so? What concrete *evidence* can someone show me of this?

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Brooke 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-01, 09:10 AM (EST)
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50. "So you're sick of discussing this issue huh???"
In the Why Can't We All Just Get Along Forum, I think OUTFRONTGIRL hits the nail on the head with her post. (Let's discuss that, and leave the negativity from this forum in yesterday) See ya there!
(Thanks for welcoming me ya'll)
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kidhell 10 desperate attention whore postings
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10-10-01, 06:46 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: Discouraging Casting :'( "
Hi Brooke, Hi Everybody -
It's kidhell here (Brent Kidwell - Music Supervisor and Casting Director for anyone who cares). The entire "race thing" with any casting (reality or scripted) is a very sensitive and serious issue. As best as I can explain my feelings on it, I will. I and the other casting directors were hired by Bunim-Murray Productions becasue they know each of us personally and trust us as people of good character who do not discriminate. Within Bunim-Murray (or BMP as we call it) there are production people of all races and backgrounds and we are all very close, work great together, and have real discussions about the make-up of our casts. I am one of the eldest BMP employees (although I'm only 32) having worked with them for 7 years now and if you look at the casts for our other shows "The Real World", "Road Rules", "Making the Band, etc. you would clearly see that different cultures, races, sexual orientations, and backgrounds are very well represented and always have been. If there ever was an ethnicity that went under represented in our history of casting I would certainly say that Asian people are among the least represented. We have spoken with many Asian people over the years and they continually tell us that it's something of a cultural thing for them to not want to publicize their personal lives.
As a casting director, all I was hired to do was find people with exceptional personalities. There were no quotas I was trying to satisfy nor was I ever told to. We did our casting search in a variety of cities that do have different cultural make-ups (for LC2 we did casting in L.A., San Diego, Chicago, New York, Memphis, Atlanta, the Hamptons, Martha's Vineyard, and Dewey Beach, Delaware) in order to get a good cross section of America. It was my job to find the most outrageous (and watchable - not annoying) people I could find. If they were "hot looking" that didn't hurt either. It can be argued that the only people we do discriminate against are "ugly people" but then the term "ugly" is highly subjective. We then sort through the people we select for call-backs, narrow the field according to how interesting they are, move selected ones along to a semi-final round, conduct further interviews, and then present 40 or so Finalists to the network. At that point it is then out of our hands. Mary-Ellis Bunim, Jon Murray and the Fox Network executives then select the 16 for the show. I do know that our presentation for season 1 included at least 10 people of color in that final 40. (if you're counting, I hope that's good enough for you) If there any discussion about an agenda to have only "2 tokens", I don't think BMP would have ever done this show. I personally thought that both Adrian and Tomiko were and are very "regular" black people. They are just regular "people" for that matter. In fact, they are better than "regular". They are both extremely attractive, they each have an interesting backgroud story, they are warm, kind, fun people who we though would be great on the show. And they were. Adrian and Tomiko also date people of other races - we have in depth, lengthy discussions about this with all potential cast members as part of our interview process, so I do not feel either of them was at a "disadvantage". There were also more Jewish people on the boat than just Lisa and Michael for your information as well. Knowing these people personally, Lisa and Michael ended up together at first becasue of their personalities (neither of them is the most self-confident about their looks so they sort of ended up together as a result of the "popularity contest" of it all). Same with Adrian and Tomiko who are both 2 of the coolest, yet very laid back personalities we selected. Their more laid-back, easy going approach, differentiated them from the others much more so than their race. None of the 4 of these people feel they were "pushed" towards each other and all of them had a good expereince doing the show. Jeanette, by the way, is Latin.
Brooke... I can't remember you specifically (I suck with names but never, ever forget a face). I respect your "backing out" if you didn't feel comfortable with how we do our show but as far as I know, we may have met with you but you were not a finalist. This isn't said as a means to slam you but you were not asked to be on the show.
BMP is well respected in the business for featuring people of all types and races in a respectable, "real" manner. (sorry, I just had to do that "real" in quotes thing) Although we will not always satisfy everyone, all of the time, we do take pride in the care we give to casting.
Hope some of this helps,
kidhell
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Thrill Seeker 220 desperate attention whore postings
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10-12-01, 04:15 PM (EST)
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52. "Good explanation Kidhell"
It sounds like you guys have done a good job over the years about giving equal chances to all types of people.
I salute the Asian communtiy for avoiding looking like fools on this type of show.
However, I find your discrimination of ugly people appalling. I would like to see more toothless, zit faced, hillbillies with facial ticks who are products of several generations of inbreeding. There just aren't enough putrid looking people on tv these days.
UGLY PEOPLE of the world UNITE!
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