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"Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
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DaSaintFan 47 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 00:46 AM (EST)
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"Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
LAST EDITED ON 07-24-02 AT 01:06 AM (EST)

I've gotten into this debate on the usenet with some users.. and it got me wondering...

I know a lot of people have complained that if Bill is the mole, it was "too obvious" by ABC.

However, that being said... if you take out certain "hidden clues"...

1) BANE
2) Admiral
3) Telegram

Would Bill still have been under consideration by many people prior to now if they didn't have the above clues given to them thanks to various technological freeze-frames? I think Bill's now officially at the top of _most_ everyone's list by now.

Those three clues have been used by many Billuminati (I just like that term better than BillFOMO) for their argument that the show was "too obvious"...

If we didn't have TiVO, VCR pausers, and the internet and such, would many of the Billuminati still be favoring Bill over Dorothy and/or Heather?

Someone on the newsgroup listed the games they "think" that people sabotaged, up through last week... (note: No money listings were used, as someone pointed out.. Bill's $ cost are much more than anyone else.)

> Bill - 5 (Costumes, Think or Swim, Gnome Home, Tether Ball, Shopping)
> Dorothy - 7 (Quiz, Costumes, Little Jane/John, Think or Swim, Second Chance, Tether Ball, Shopping)
> Heather - 6 (Little Jane/John, Rappelling, Bike Relay, Gnome Home, Relative Disguise, Shopping)

And obviously this isn't all of them... Just on the sabotage numbers alone, anyone of the three have made Mole-type actions...

But most of the people who argue that it'll be "boring" if it's Bill, argue that point because of the three major hidden clues listed above. Heck, people wanted to find the clues... you FOUND the clues (again, if it is Bill)... and now it's ABC's fault that the show is boring, because people found them??

I for one, don't have TiVO nor do I record the shows and watch it frame by frame to find the hidden clues (although the "aka Bill" clue is one of those that even the non-technologists could eventually come to a conclusion as being a good clue.).

I made my assumptions that it was Bill (with the outside shot on Katie and Heather) based on his game actions (starting with his telling Al not to give him the exemption back in ep.3, leaving the others to "beg" for it.).. and what I think was a reasonable guestimate. (And was "locked in" on Bill since the "Smart vs. Dumb" game as my choice until he is (if he is) eliminated from the game.).

So for those of you who are calling "Boring episode because Bill was so obvious from near the beginning", are you saying that because you assumed it during the gameplay? (Which I would find hard to believe, considering that all the players have been somewhat 'equally molish'?) or are you saying that because of the possibly hidden clues that were presented to you thanks to technological advances?

Did Technology do what Bribs' Mole Killer couldn't? Defeat Mole2?


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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? LadyLuna 07-24-02 1
   RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? DaSaintFan 07-24-02 2
       RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? LadyLuna 07-24-02 3
           RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? NaughtyKittySara 07-24-02 4
               RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? cyclehausen 07-24-02 5
 RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? alleyb 07-24-02 6
   RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? Jims02 07-24-02 8
       RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? Bebo 07-24-02 9
           RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? Kokoro 07-24-02 10
 RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? dragonstorm 07-24-02 7
   RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? LadyLuna 07-24-02 11
 RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? performanz 07-24-02 12
 RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? landsharck 07-24-02 13
   RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? omar316 07-29-02 14
 Question--sorta linked to technolog... LadyLuna 07-29-02 15
   RE: Question--sorta linked to techn... LaybackSpinPatty 07-30-02 16
 RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole? hrc2u 07-30-02 17
 But didn't we just say survivorscott 07-30-02 18
   no more NET omar316 08-07-02 19
       RE: no more NET LadyLuna 08-07-02 20
           RE: no more NET Femme 08-07-02 21
               RE: no more NET lroy 08-07-02 22

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LadyLuna 114 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 01:20 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
Can't answer that one until we find out who the mole is... these could be fun red herrings to throw us off the trail, in which case they won't have spoiled a thing...
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DaSaintFan 47 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 01:24 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
True enough Luna.. I guess a fairer/more reasonable question would be, how much did we (the viewers) suspect Bill before all the still-shots came to light?

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LadyLuna 114 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 01:31 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
Interestingly enough, to me these things have had the opposite effect--even though Bill has done plenty of things that could be considered moleish, I hesitate to believe he is the mole because it seems that the producers are trying SO HARD to make us believe that he is...

But I'm happy tonight because the only thing I was sure of was that Al was not the mole

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NaughtyKittySara 102 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 01:51 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
I think Bill has been suspicious from the beginning without any hidden clues.

* He refused to wear a costume when everyone else was willing.
* He lasted only a few minutes in the water, after he said he was a good swimmer.
* He dropped in gnome but it didn't break until he fell on it. He also suggested they use a bulky gnome instead of a heavier yet easier to carry gnome. Plus he forgot to take his picture and had to go back.
* He hit the ball out of turn during the game that would have added the most money to the pot that day ($30,000). Even though both Bribs and Darwin had already ended the game, he probably didn't notice since he was laying on the ground.
* When Al and Bribs were trying very hard to sell the items Bill basically sat around and watched...he also didn't immediately suggest they return the money (like Al and Bribs did) that was left on the table.
* Everyone knows something went wrong during the evader game and since Al is gone, I cast all my suspicions on Bill. Plus at the end of ep. 11 Al said he played the game without lying and deceit so he probably didn't intentionally miss the cue.

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cyclehausen 1197 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 01:53 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
also, a little mentioned point that was a big deal when the show started is the fact that we EXPECTED the Mole to get lots of exemptions this time.

Bill has received three (almost 4, in the Night Ball) out of 11 episodes.

But we are OT on this thread, so pls dont reply to this here.

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alleyb 98 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 04:16 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
I am still holding out some slim hope that Bill isn't the Mole. It seems like the show has been pushing him so hard--and I currently think that is because they felt they needed to find a way to make watchers think that he was the Mole since they had so little in the way of actual interactions to point suspicion at him. I think they are trying hard to convince people of him being the Mole, right down to the shots of boats in tonight's episode (I'm sure I'm not the only one who found that particularly manipulative--it's the Admiral, it's the Admiral!). I suspected Heather early on, although I felt she was too similar to Kathryn...but maybe that was a built-in ploy to throw suspicion off of her--who would think that the producers of the show would choose a Mole so similar to the first? And the only person I'd be truly shocked to see as the Mole is Dorothy. She seems like such a "player-like player" to me now, but maybe that is the point. I'd be thrilled if Dorothy was indeed the Mole, but I'd be even more thrilled if she is a player and wins!
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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 08:16 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
I agree completely... I have mentioned earlier that although I think Bill is the mole, mark my words, I do not want him to be the mole. And subconciously I realize that, since my Number 2 suspect Dorothy is suddenly gaining really fast. I don't think that any non-Billfomo wants truly wants Bill to be the mole, just because the show would have been ruined for them by the fourth episode.

Yes, I do think technology is the Primary Argument of Billfomos (not Billumnati, or whatever). This show was supposed to be about watching for sabotage and suspicious behavior. This year turned in unscrambling codes, freeze-framing the T.V, and making desperate attempts at symbolism.

This brings me to my next point. Of the Final Three, Bill has probably sabotaged the least. Last night proved it when he won (or lost?) the Liar Game, earning 50 grand. That's another reason, I don't want Bill to be the mole. He was awful!

Go ahead, Billfomos, and say "I told you so" when you find out that Bill is the mole. But he was not a good mole!
-----------------------------------
Quotes of the week:
1. "Al, do you think you could move just a little?"-Myra
2. "Ewww... Patrick, no... I don't want to see that."-Heather
3. "I really hope Darwin doesn't realize I have a coalition with Dorothy, or... that could be bad."-Lisa
4. "Gas station attendants... They no NOTHING about flat tires... Let's ask these tourists!"-Darwin
5. "I swear, Rob, if this freaks me out I'm gonna punch you."-Anderson
6. "Those hills are a b!tch."-Anderson
7. "Um, thanks guys for not liking me!" (waves the $ at them)-Elavia
8. "They do look like piercing blue eyes, Heather, but I don't get it. He's totally making out with (that girl)."- Bribs
9. "I was a little surprised when Anderson came into my room in a suit. He usually just comes into my room in his pajamas, just his bottoms usually."-Darwin

10. "Man, I'm screwed."-Dorothy

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Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 08:48 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
Yes, I do think technology is the Primary Argument of Billfomos

Of some, maybe, but not all. I was a BillFOMO early on, as my post on the Bragging Rights thread shows. There were enough small things in the early episodes, such as the costume and putting someone non-athletic in the biathlon challenge, that had me suspecting him. Some of the "technological clues" may have reinforced my suspicion, but they weren't the defining reason. And I don't think I'm alone in that regard.


This little light of mine...I'm gonna let it shine!

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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 10:29 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
I noticed the same things in the early episodes, Bebo; although the clues gained by technological means are important to me all the same. I personally like the super hidden clues. I mean, it's what everyone wanted last year. Did anyone not complain about the poor clues of the Kathryn season? I would rather have them than not have them, personally.

ABC just needs to find a happy medium with their clues, though I'm not sure how (and red herrings are not the answer - they might as well not give any clues at all if they're all pointing to different people).

-----------------------------------
Now let us never speak of S3 again.

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dragonstorm 9 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 04:41 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
LAST EDITED ON 07-24-02 AT 04:42 AM (EST)

Not so much technology such as VCRs, but internet forums. How many of us found these clues on our own, and how many of us read them first on the internet? With a thousand different minds putting their knowledge together here, it's no surprise we know (?) who the mole is. (I purposely avoided reading about the Mole on the internet until last week for this very reason.)

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LadyLuna 114 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 10:33 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
Yes, but didn't this make the game all the more fun???

I'm primarily a Survivor fan and most of the fun I derive from that show is debating afterwards with my husband, family and friends, who the survivor is going to be.

With the Mole 2, most of the fun for me has been this clue-seeking business and these online discussions

Whether the technological hints were intentional or not and whether they were red herrings or not--they captured us all. They kept hundreds of us internet Molerons interested each week and fueled many a discussion. They gave us a game to play long after each episode was over.

I'm glad they gave us so much to decipher, I'd even say these little "technology" clues enhanced the game for many of us!

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performanz 46 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 12:27 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
I am also one that suspected Bill from the very
beginning not because of the clues but because of
what games he did and did not participate in.
I wrote after the Repelling/ safe crack game
that to me it proved that bill was the mole.

If I was a player in the very first game I would
have suspected the producers wanted the mole to
be in the position that Bill and Darwin were in.
Choosing players for the games, not participating in
them. So right off the bat Bill and Darwin were
my suspects. As a player I would have tried
to volunteer myself for that because I would
have been 95% certain that the other player
would be the mole.

Then in the second episode Bill did
the same thing, he volunteered for a position where
he got to select outfits for other players.
Boom, Bill is top of the list.

What sealed it for me was the repelling game.
It was a game that was almost impossible game
to win because it involved 5 people acting
independently of each other. 1 screw up and they lose.
I am sure the producers told Bill not to volunteer
for that game. And what happened? Bill immediately
volunteers Al for the game. And Bill also slipped
up and said he would have changed more answers
which is odd since he wasn't even playing in the game
and wouldn't even know what the questions were.

If I was a player I would have been quizing 100%
Bill from that moment on. I am just surprised
that the other players didn't suspect Bill from
the very beginning too. Especially after revealing
last time that they told Kathryn to volunteer for
the first game.

So it was obvious without any manufactured clues
that Bill is the mole.
If by chance he is not the mole I give him
credit for being a great player to still be
there with no coalitions and such a carefree
attitude.

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landsharck 8 desperate attention whore postings
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07-24-02, 12:44 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
I don't think technology (other than the internet) doomed The Mole. The people who wanted to find the clues did so. If you didn't want to know who the mole was, why would you spend so much time pausing your vcr or tivo?

The first season's clues were ridiculous and it seemed like they just looked for things to make into clues when they were done filming. Everyone complained. This time around they actually gave clues. Now people say they're too obvious. I disagree.

If it wasn't for the internet, most people who just watch the show (and don't write their senior thesis on the clues) wouldn't catch a lot of them.

By the way, I caught one last night. During the quiz, when Anderson was reading the last question, "Who is the mole?" there was a shot of Bill waving bye bye and they melded that shot in with the next. The next shot was of the quiz screen and the cursor went to Al and then no one else. So, while watching it, it looked like Bill was waving goodbye to Al.

That's all I got.

Landsharck

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omar316 39 desperate attention whore postings
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07-29-02, 06:29 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
If Bill turns out to be the mole I think Technology did kind of ruin the suprise of it, and I will not be on the boards next mole. IF he isnt then technology just enhanced the suspense of the show. I came online to discuss moleish behaivors and SOME SUBTLE clues. A telegram saying BILL IS THE MOLE is not subtle at all. Even if you're not the one to figure that out, it only takes one person to ruin it for someone, like 1 person ruined it for me. If Bill is the mole, they need to work on having more subtle clues
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LadyLuna 114 desperate attention whore postings
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07-29-02, 08:14 PM (EST)
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15. "Question--sorta linked to technology, well at least editing..."
If Bill were the mole, wouldn't they be showing more of him? I feel like I got to know Dorothy, Al, and Heather way more than Bill.

How does this compare to Kathryn last season. Did the viewers get to know her?

Is there a possible clue in the editing and how much "spotlight" is put on a contestant?

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LaybackSpinPatty 27 desperate attention whore postings
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07-30-02, 01:21 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Question--sorta linked to technology, well at least editing..."
I think that is part of the mystery of the Mole. I think ABC wants to portray Bill as sort of a quiet, mysterious person. Or perhaps the reason we don't see too much of him is because the interview times are when the producers and the Mole work out their strategies for the next round.
As for the technology debate, I think that the people who complain that the clues were too obvious are people that read too much into this. The average person who is going to watch the Mole probably doesnt spend all their time pausing the tape, and going to Mole forums. I think the clues that have been put in this season are MUCH better than last seasons. We (being the people who post on forums) are people who picked up on these clues very easily, seeing as how we are, shall we say, Mole connosoieurs. I think the average viewer watches the show, and maybe picks up on a couple clues, but I think to the average person, the identity of the Mole is still quite obscure.
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hrc2u 146 desperate attention whore postings
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07-30-02, 01:35 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Did Technology Doom The Mole?"
First, what a great question. We'll have to wait and see. Even with all the "clues" found on the web. I still stuck to Bribs being the mole. I was wrong. I just didn't want to believe it would be that easy to solve.
On the other hand, my husband who doesn't search for clues or search the web for "enlightenment"; believes and has since the first episode that Dorthy is the mole.
I have always found her to be to molish. I would therefore be more disappointed if Dorthy is the mole than Bill.

For me the disappointment with the show is ABC. They made us wait 6+ months for them to get it back on the air. I wonder if over that down time they reedited some of the scenes to add more clues? Useless question, but would be interesting to talk to the producers after the Mole concludes, to see if they just let sit on the shelf or if they tweaked it a bit to try and capture more viewers.
hrc2u

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survivorscott 2191 desperate attention whore postings
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07-30-02, 05:28 PM (EST)
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18. "But didn't we just say"
LAST EDITED ON 07-30-02 AT 05:29 PM (EST)

How much we liked the clues for the British version of the game? If we had watched and figured these out the same way would we be as impressed.

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omar316 39 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 01:20 AM (EST)
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19. "no more NET"
first off I would like to say that the MOLE is the best show out there and hope it comes back for another season. But one of the things that makes the show so good is the aura of mystery that surrounds the mole. To me and many others the NET spoiled the mole and also the hidden clues. All the hidden clues were posted. SO next mole as much as I may want to no more INTERNET. I wish they would do more subtle clues, like the pisces clue and the apple one, not a message saying BILL IS THE MOLE,I bet without the telegram clue and the bill is the mole clue alot of the BILLFOMO's wouldnt be as sure. like I said altough the clue that said BILL is the MOLE was hard to find, on the internet all it takes is one person to ruin it for everyone. Let me know what you all think about the NET and spoilers
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LadyLuna 114 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 10:29 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: no more NET"
Well, although my picks turned out to be correct it was a bitter-sweet victory. I was really hoping that some of those obvious "Bill is the Mole" clues were red herrings to throw us off.

I think there are two different types of viewers out there. The moleron that tapes the show, rewinding it and looking for clues and the casual viewer that just watches the show and tries to catch odd behavior.

It's going to be a tall order to satisfy both camps. Perhaps the hidden, crack-the-code kind of clues ("Bill is the Mole") should be less obvious and include some red herrings.

However, I'm wondering how they could make the clues aimed at the average tv viewer (such as the "McD's" reference) less obvious without discouraging them altogether.

Wouldn't any such reference be too obvious for the hard-core code-cracking fan?

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Femme 3621 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 10:40 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: no more NET"
I think you're onto something with the red herring thing. More red herrings and conflicting clues would be the easiest way to satisfy both camps.

I was not disappointed, since this is the first season that the Mole was on that people actually watched and got involved in postin about. They didn't know, I'll bet, that people would post screen captures and the like. Next season, I bet you can count on much more obscure (like the picses night sky) clues to foil the spoilers.


Femme

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lroy 536 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 10:48 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: no more NET"
I'm with you Femme. I think they need to have more Red Herrings out there to fool with us, the Internet community. While i choose BillFOMO, and said i would be disappointed if it was him, i wasn't disappointed at all last night. I liked seeing the subtle ways that Bill manipulated the game, but it would have been nice to see some official clues that sent us in the wrong direction.

But, oh my heck, i'm a girl...

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