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"The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"

Posted by VerucaSalt on 09-14-12 at 02:28 PM
It continues to amaze me how many seasons of this show have aired and despite some recycling, I still get immense enjoyment watching this show.

Let me preface the following information with that other than the below information, I know nothing else. There are some posters that I have developed a relationship with who “look out for me” and immediately told me that this season is full of sourced information.

This thread is about the editing of the show and the clues in the editing (out of place confessionals, face time, characters and their roles that I have identified over the many seasons and so forth) and while I choose to not go outside the realm of just the show to get an idea of what may happen next, I take no issue with those who post in this thread who also know of some sourced information.

The only request I have is that the posters write about the show and its editing and the characters and their development through the eyes of the show as we watch and not discuss what is being “leaked.” As I have never subscribed to a “winner’s edit” I think anyone and everyone can discuss the editing and how it shapes the players which I have identified as “long term” or those with “longevity” or “end game”.

Kindly be respectful towards one another and don't assume something unless you know it to be true. This thread is to discuss our thoughts about the editing of the show, the development of the characters and so forth. I've analyzed this show for many years and would never presume to think I know everything. Thus, everyone should welcome anyone's thought process.

Please feel free to add any information you wish as to the contestants and your thoughts on how they may fare. I may not have correct information since I've been very careful about what I am given.

As always, there is basis to potentially assume that trouble makers, less physically capable people (young or old) self-ordained leaders and such may logically be the first to go.

With three returning players, we should now have a foundation on how they may fare. The irony that quite a few of them have done well is not lost on me. One would suspect the other contestants would not want a returning player to have even a remote opportunity to get to the end and others feel that person would be a wonderful final “goat.” The question to ask is if that returning player is truly a goat or not. One should never assume that just because the person has played before that he/she would not receive the jury votes to win the game (obvious example, Boston Rob).

Considering what we have seen in the past seasons that featured new and old players, I will have to go out on a very short limb and guess that at least one of the three returning men will probably do well in this game. Sometimes lessons are never learned.

Tribe One

Michael Skupin – Former player (quite some time ago!) Public Speaker, 50 years old. Very helpful with the living situation but I do recall there being issues of the way he conducted his leadership. However, being older and probably a bit more mellow may help in that regard.

With him….

Abi Maria Gomes – Age 32 and business student.

Lisa Whelchel – Age 49, former actor

RC Saint-Amour – Age 27, Investment analyst

Artis Silvester – Age 53, Engineer

Pete Yurkowski – 24 Engineering Graduate

I would like to think the three “older” people may bond knowing that they could easily be kicked out if they do not pull their weight. Lisa may have the biggest problem as the oldest female and perhaps the thought process of her having money due to her prior profession. There may be the possibility of Artis and Mike Skupin having issues due to the “leadership” role and RC being an East Coast girl may have some trouble mixing as well depending upon how her personality comes across.

Tribe 2

Jonathan Penner – Former player (and quite often!) Writer/actor, 50 years old. Jonathan is a personal favorite of mine; I’ve always found him witty and just a great character. He has definitely evolved since his first time playing to a softer Jonathan that wasn’t quite as grating as his early days on the show.

With him…

Dana Lambert – Age 32, Cosmetologist

Sarah Dawson – age 28, Insurance sales

Carter Williams – 24, Track Coach

Katie Hanson – 22, pageant winner

Jeff Kent – 44, former MLB player

Another interesting mix and again do we have a ready-made target in Jeff Kent due to his past “celebrity” or will Jonathan view him as someone he thinks he can really work with? I’m not sure how Carter will fare but his athleticism should be beneficial. Three young women could be a dangerous combination OR feel it’s necessary to hitch a ride to an older, stronger male.

Tribe 3

Russell Swan – Former player, attorney, 45 years old. Russell was a decent guy, maybe a bump here or there; I would say anyone taking a leadership role may have some trouble unless handling it very carefully.

With him…

Angie Layton – 20, model

Denise Stapley – 41, sex therapist

Roxy Morris – 28, Seminary student

Zane Knight – 28, Tire repair

Malcolm Freberg – 25, bartender

If any tribe serves as the “distraction” of the season, it should be this tribe. The “characters” assigned lead me to believe we will see a lot of interesting dynamics but they may not be the tribe of substance. I do not have a great feeling that Russell will enjoy Zane we may see some interesting dynamics from Denise. Background does play a role so if Russell and Roxy get along, their race and geographical location will play a part in that. This tribe may self-destruct



Table of contents

Messages in this discussion
"Hiya VS"
Posted by tribephyl on 09-16-12 at 02:45 AM
Don't have much to add at the moment, but wanted to make sure I said "Hello, Veruca!" and to let you know I appreciate your efforts with the PG&E through all of these seasons. A truly remarkable asset to BLOWS and a just amazing person.
Thank you.

As far as the show so far...
I'm intrigued to see what the overall theme will turn out to be. With the even numbered seasons usually being rehashes of (or nods to) the previous Themed Season, Philippines 'should' be a twist on One World.
Alas, it looks as if with this season we have our own "redemption" plot points to consider; with 3 med-evacs trying to outperform their last experience.
But I've also seen tons of promos for both Lisa Welchel and Jeff Kent.
I realize they are celebrities, so are receiving pre-show-buzz to hopefully gain viewers is to be expected. Yet, what do they bring to help describe the season at large?

They are both confrontational.
They are both bible thumpers.
They are both extremely self-centered.
(If ever a season Brandon Hantz might have actually fit in..)

Funny thing is... Michael Skupin is too.
(Because it's been so long since his season, and because of the way he left, it's easy to forget he was definitely the most in danger Kucha at the upcoming TC, and solely for the reasons stated above.
That fire saved him from indistinction.
Jeff, Alicia and Nick (with Roger and Liz's help) were ready to cut ties with Mike at the next TC. And even though we have no idea what the IC was going to be, there was already buzz of "making a calculated loss" to rid the tribe of the 'Overlord'.)


But neither Jonathan nor Russell fall into those categories.
Both of these guys are capable of (and prone to) empathy. Feeling what others feel. A sense of why others act the way they do and what their position is if they do or don't agree with that act.
This spells trouble for me, NO, for them.
It looks like it might be a season of self-centered thought, (which speaks volumes for individual players who resemble that personality trait.) and might lead to a great season of back and forth, no pagongings and a wide open F5, but it also tends towards only rewarding those whom reward themselves.

Which side of that coin are the viewers?
I certainly don't want to bring politics into Survivor discussion but I can't help but notice the parallels to the current presidential race.
Selfless of Selfish?
Which are you?
Which is better?
Maybe not so much One World as it will be One Way, My Way.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by forehead on 09-20-12 at 10:44 AM
Hi VS

Matsing

Russ should be glad if he survives another TC. Conf: I'm gonna let somebody else be a leader. Followed by nothing but despotism. Way to go Russ! Angie helped the editors by providing great facial expressions as well as commentary.

Comical contrast in alliance making. Zane with all his phony alliance attempts compared to "this-is-how-you-make-an-alliance" between Malcolm and Denise. Makes me think Malcolm and Denise stick around for a while. Denise seems to have a great social game.

Kalabaw

Dissapointing tribe from an editing perspective. Penner vs the rest. Penner alone trying -almost desperately- to find the HII. They come back from behind in the RC/IC to win. Jeff and Carter made up so much ground (sorry, water), yet this comeback was almost hidden. No celebrations shown back at camp after their win.

Slightly interesting: Dawson's conf. She knows Jeff Kent and will use that info when it has value to her. Both their story lines might end when that happens. I did not get a Danni-Hoogeboom vibe here.

Tandang

Now we're talking! Love the RC show. RC and Abi. RC, Abi, and Pete. RC, Abi, Pete recruit Mike. Which then turns into the Mike show. Mike sees he needs to follow the game, not his heart(!!!). This foursome formed during the day with younglings gets contasted with a conversation at night (contrast 1) with older Lisa (contrast 2). Followed by Mike's internal coflict - go with youth or older Lisa who he feels more connected with. This internal conflict could be the story of the season. And to make sure we keep highlighting Mike, let's sprinkle in Mike's clumsiness. It's not edited as he's a weak player though. Instead we hear RC saying they need Mike. Pete, of course, had the funny comment about Mike and fire as well.

Notice I said nothing about Artis. You could even barely see him running next to / behind the smaller RC. Seems like Artis is the exception on Tandang - no story for him.

forehead - it's fun watching this show again.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 09-20-12 at 03:29 PM
I agree on pretty much all of your points. Russell is crispy toast and will be quite surprised if he lasts longer than the next two or three boots while both Penner and Skupin have definite potential to last much, much longer in the game. Based on last night's episode, Skupin had a better opening episode than Penner which may or may not be a key to figuring out who goes further.

In fact, Skupin's repeated mishaps and shrugging or laughing it off was very much Fabio-esque from Nicaragua.

I noticed that about Dawson picking up on Jeff Kent as well, let's see if not only she uses that info a la Danni, but also Skupin with Lisa.

One theme that seemed to jump out at me was all the duos that were shown. Of course, there's always been alliance talk in the first episode or two with groups and pairs bunching together, but there seemed to be quite a lot of pairs featured in particular with not many larger groups focused on. For example, while there was talk of a Skupin-RC-Abi-Pete alliance, it later became a RC-Abi and Skupin-Lisa focus. Could that be an indication of something like, let's say, a TC tie between two duos or a flip-flop involving a duo jumping alliances?

Duos that jumped out at me (didn't see enough of Kalabaw to point out any):
Skupin and Lisa
RC and Abi-Maria
Malcolm and Denise
Roxy and Angie

Even Russell and Zane seemed to be tied in (literally!) with each other this episode as a duo at odds.

Tandang definitely has the makings of being the tribe-to-watch this season and you can easily see Malcolm as being a major, major character to keep an eye on as well. Both Malcolm and Denise were shown as smart players, which bodes well for their long-term potential in the game.


Disclaimer: Not being as in touch with spoilers so far as I usually am, I do have a rough idea of who's making the merge and who isn't, but I don't know who's being booted at which times and I don't know the winner or the finalists. What little info I do know, I won't allow any of it to influence my writings in this thread.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by crispy06 on 09-20-12 at 11:32 AM
Kalabaw or 'the invisible tribe'
They had a comeback to win the challange but no focus afterwards. That does not bode well for anyone on that tribe.
The players that stood out barely are Jeff and Jonathan.

Jeff-he told us everything and he got plenty of comments from other players about him as well. De facto leader of the tribe and most likely winner from this tribe if there was one.
Dawson- She knows that Kent is a former BB player, her exposing his secret will probably be her main storyline, she doesn't talk about herself at all.
Dana-She also talks about potentially working with Kent and liking that they have Southern roots in common, but they have no scenes together to back this up. So that probably means their relationship is not significant to the endgame.
Jonathan- we barely saw him, unusual for a returnee who was so memorable in the past. He just talked about finding the immunity idol and I think that ties in with his storyline. I'm not sure whether it goes farther beyond that.
Carter and Katie seem like nice, athletic people but they were basically invisible, they aren't the winners and are not important to the story of the season.

Masting or "the Hot mess tribe"
Masting is in bad shape with a leader who doesn't want to be a leader but can't help himself. I'm not sure if they got attention just because they were the losing tribe but they do have some colorful personalities and potential winners.
Malcolm- charming, gamer and young athletic guy. A good combination to have. He seems to be in the center of the ongoings of his tribe and that is the perfect place to be. His alliances with Denise and Angie are highlighted. One or both will be significant to this game. Potential winner

Denise- an older woman but not the typical old lady edit. She is smart and strong, and knows what is going on in her tribe. Her alliance with Malcolm is highlighted as well. Potential winner.

Angie-also not the typical young girl edit that i was expecting. Although maybe they had to show her because she wanted to blindside Russel. I still feel that she will be the most in trouble should Masting keep going to tribal. Which i think they will.

Roxanne-also didn't like how Russel handled the challenge but said nothing about herself. If she was going to get an edit like Vecepia I would expect her to talk about her faith or some game talk even though she wasn't really important this episode. Because she didn't I don't think she is a winner.

Zane- self explanatory, he talked himself out of the tribe.

Russel- no chance he is winning. Making the mistake of being the leader again and shown to be a bad leader as well. He talks about idol but it's not highlighted like Penner's scenes were, so I don't think it plays a role in his story at all. Not the winner.

Tandang "the strong tribe"
Tandang had the best edit of all in terms of getting significant focus before and after the challenge. It also has a four person alliance highlighted including RC, PETE,Abi and Skupin. Usually an alliance highlighted this early means it will be a strong one that makes the merge and important to the endgame or it could be one that doesn't make it. Players of note are RC, Skupin, and Lisa.

Lisa- she got to talk alot and there were many scenes involving her position, her feelings etc. This could be a redemption edit in the same vein as Holly but is it a winning edit? I don't know. I think she is going deep in the game though, just because of so much focus.

Skupin-The returnee with the most focus and positive edit. He talks about 'going with the flow', trying to keep up with the young people but wanting to keep Lisa as well. That will be his dilemma, and which way he chooses to go may be significant for the endgame. Potential winner

RC- she is another smart, young athletic woman. Similar to Malcolm but more aggressive in forming her alliance. Potential winner.

Abi- she is RC's sidekick but the distrust between them is highlighted. So i think that might play a role later. I have to see more of her before deciding whether she is another Sandra.

Pete-is in the four person alliance, but doesn't talk about it. For a nice,strong athletic guy, he should have more to say in the premiere. I don't think he's the winner just based on this alone.

Artis- besides cracking a joke about Skupin cutting himself, he was totally irrelevant. Not the winner.


"Spot's observations"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 09-20-12 at 09:05 PM
As y'all know, SpotTheDifference (a.k.a. Spot) is from the Philippines himself and has been providing some cultural observations that most of us might not be aware of, so his insights have already shown to be valuable.

Here's one that I think is worth monitoring from an editing perspective - Spot commented that the opening episode was rather chicken-centric. Might be nothing or might be real intriguing ... as we all know, Tandang is the Filipino word for 'rooster' which is a type of chicken.

So, this could very well be a hint that one of Skupin, RC, Lisa, or Abi-Maria is the winner. Pete wasn't featured much and Artis was completely invisible.


From the East Coast Spoiler Thread:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7935.shtml#43


"Episode 1 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 09-22-12 at 06:15 PM
While Jeff made his opening comments, the camera showed us Lisa, Dana, Zane and Angie.

Then Kent had the opening confessional, complete with images from his MLB days: “…I’ve seen pressure. This will be a challenge, no doubt. I hope people won’t recognize me.”

He was immediately followed by our first boot, Zane, talking about his Frankenstein tatoo, using it as a metaphor for his dual personality.

Lisa had an introduction: “..I’m a huge fan of Survivor…I am not going to say I was on The Facts of Life…”

The introduction of the3 returning players was set by showing scenes of previous injuries to illustrate the dangers of the adventure.

Russell: “…Survivor smacked me in the chops. This time, I am smacking back. Either these people run with me or I am going to run them over.”

Jonathan: “I got injured in a challenge…Do you know how much fire I have to win this thing? Do you know how much I can taste it? 39 days from now, I’ll make a million dollars.”

Mike: “…The Australian Outback was an amazing adventure…I think the whole world saw that falling in the fire was my biggest failure but I didn’t see it that way. To dwell on what if would cheat what the adventure meant to me but I’m in love with the fact that I am able to come out here and do it again.”

Probst then asked: “Will the veterans have what it takes to be the Sole Survivor or will a new castaway emerge to claim the million dollar prize?”
The new castaways shown then were Artis, Katie and Carter.


Reaching the end of the introduction, we realize that it only featured the “stars” and Zane, the first boot. Is it already a sign that the others will be ignored or irrelevant? Hopefully not but, with Zane being shown right after Jeff first comments, I’d be worried for the unknowns that were shown at that time, namely Dana and Angie.

The three castaways featured when Probst asked if a newbie would emerge were nearly invisible characters in the premiere so should we assume that a veteran will win?


Of the 3 returning players, Russell and Jonathan sounded really arrogant while Mike talked more about simply enjoying the adventure. We know that Russell will soon find himself in hot waters with his tribe so, once more, arrogance isn’t a good thing. Maybe Jonathan’s quote will be seen as a winning one by many but I don’t think so.

For the introduction of a premiere, it was lacking the cultural connections that you’d expect in a new location, especially one with such a rich history as the Philippines. The fake shipwreck was fun but not new. When will they actually sink the ship, forcing them out for real instead of giving them a Probst countdown?

I would have titled the first episode:


Go With The Game


Jeff first talked to Kent who said having 3 tribes meant immediate panic: “We only got 5 team mates. If we go to tribal council there will be a lot of panic real quick.”
RC agreed.
Zane said he was happy with 3 tribes.

Lisa had another confessional about wanting to keep her identity a secret.

Jeff asked Roxanne about the scariest thing she’d seen on the show.
Without naming him, Roxanne told the story of Russell’s medevac.

Dawson had a confessional about the returning players: “As a huge fan of the show, I am thinking to myself: Are you dreaming?”

Jeff introduced the returning players as leaders with valuable experience.

Mike: “The yellow tribe caught my eye immediately. I recognized Lisa from a show that I watched when I was growing up. Her show name, Blair, almost came off my lips.”

(For once, it’s the returning player that is starstruck!)

Jeff turned to Skupin, asking how it felt and Mike simply said it felt like the first time, that it was amazing.

More evidence of Mike enjoying the adventure.

When Probst mentioned the hidden immunity idols, the camera switched to Dana and a sort of warning sound was heard. Let’s keep this in mind; it could mean that Dana either finds or falls victim to the idol.

During the scramble, we heard Jonathan saying: “Get the Chicken” which is funny if we think back on his first episode in the Cook Islands and considering that Tandang is the word for rooster in the Philippines. Will Jonathan regret not getting the Tandang buff?

Kent: “We’re in the game with players returning from injury and, 3 minutes in, I hear my knee pop…If my team mates smell blood, they’ll kick me out real fast.”

Matsing - Tribe 1

(Really? We need numbers to identify tribes now? Or is it an indication that Matsing was first to go to TC?!)

Rusell: “I’m thrilled to be here, I’m blessed. The last time I…was in the leadership role but this time the leadership ain’t going to happen…There’s always some guy that’s an idiot who says “I think I should be the leader…Just watch him crash and burn. Dummy!”

He proceeded telling his tribe that they were all one team yet, immediately, Russell was shown leading the tribe, an editor’s kiss of death. Russell was shown as being the idiot.

To make sure the audience knew Russell was the Matsing idiot, we heard Malcolm talking to Angie: “What’s Russell wants to do is kind of how today is going.”

Angie: “Russell keeps telling us that he’s not the leader but he’s the one sitting there saying (what we should do) We do need a leader but we should work together, not for him.”

Malcolm said he lived in Micronesia for a year and knew how to make fire.

Malcolm: “I can do the fire, do palm fronds, chop coconuts, things like that…(we saw him teaching Russell how to make fire) “

Zane: “We made fire in the first 45 minutes we were here.”

Malcolm: “Day 1, we got the fire. Russell made it which worked out well because he wants to be the leader so bad! A target went off my back because I am not a threat to him.”

Kalabaw – Tribe 2

(will they be next to attend TC?)

Kent: “I think I left my knee on the boat… I don’t want to let anybody know I’m hurt so I’ll play it out the best I can for now.”

Jonathan: “This is a marathon because there are so many crazy twists to the game.. This is so much fun for me…It’s moving to be doing this again.”

This confessional felt much better than Jonathan’s first one, much less arrogant. The next scene would put Jonathan in danger which could be could for his development… if he survives!

With Jonathan alone in the ocean, Kent gathered the tribe and said: “If anyone’s going to win this game, it ought to be one of us. Do you want a veteran to win or one of us to win?”

Dana: “Not that Jonathan isn’t a good guy but it’s his third time so I’d like to see one of us win it. So, he’s out as soon as we can get him out.”

Tandang – Tribe 3

Mike: “When I looked at the 3 different tribes, my tribe is the one I would have picked. We have a good mix of brains and brawn. A lot of people have said you shouldn’t play again because now you’re opening yourself up to the legend of what I was to what I am today. It’s a huge risk but it’s what drives me.”

Immediately, Abi and RC went into the jungle together.

RC: “I definitely am all or nothing type girl and I’m here to play the game no matter what. I click with certain people and Abi is one of them. I trust her. I know you’re not supposed to trust anyone but you have to trust someone at certain times. I’m telling everyone that I am an executive assistant because I don’t want them to know that I am a banker. There is such a negative connotation about bankers and Wall street but, to be a great investment banker, you need the killer instincts because you always have to be on your toes in New York…If I can handle Wall Street, I can certainly handle Survivor.”

The two women talked about forming an alliance.
RC said she liked Skupin.
Abi added Peter because: “He is strong but a little bit dumb.”

RC: “Abi and I connected on a good level so hopefully that will help me in the game but who knows how long it will last.”

It’s nice to be able to eliminate someone so early. Peter may go far but with an introduction like this, he will not be our winner! I will however suggest that we should keep an eye on RC! Personal development, alliance formation and a positive connection to a returning player spells a possible end game story.

Abi: “I came to the United States 12 years ago, I have this very strong Brazillian accent. Hopefully, I can use it as a flirtatious tool.”

Peter: “Abi keeps staring at me and I think that’s going to be a big advantage. I think she’s ready to play some evil games. Pretty hot! She could definitely do some damage.”

It was RC that talked to Peter about an alliance.

RC: “It’s me, Abi and Peter. We already have an alliance and I think it’s a pretty solid alliance but I am looking for a strong four so that we have the majority.”

She grabbed Skupin, telling him she was a fan of the show and that they can’t lose with him on their team. Mike agreed to the 4 person alliance.

Mike: “My strategy coming in to this was make sure that you go with the game. If your tribe is moving slow, move slow with them, don’t jump out in the lead… The three younger people move fast so I feel that I have to move fast with them or I’m in big trouble.”

The next segment was all about the Celebrities:

Kalabaw – Day 1

The scene started with centipedes going in every directions

Dana and Kent talked about being from the South.

Dana: “Looking at the group…I don’t see any other punks with spiky hair. I like Jeff…I would fight any boy that would challenge me. Maybe me and Jeff can pull some southern roots and bond on that.”

Kent: “Being a baseball player could be a disadvantage to me…This game isn’t about…who needs the money. I’ve been a fan of the show and I want to play the game…I love to compete. I don’t need the million bucks but I’d sure like to be the Sole Survivor.”

As this was being heard, we saw Jonathan giving Kent the thumbs up on his shelter work which could be a hint that Jeff does well in his quest if not for...

Dawson: “…I know who Jeff Kent is. There’s been no mention of him being a former professional athlete…I don’t think the other tribe members know and I think Jeff likes it that way. I will tell him that I know as soon as it becomes valuable to me.”

This could be the start of a Hogeboom-Danni story but Dawson seems much more blunt about what she will do, especially considering that her confessional ended with a shot of her eating the coconut that Jeff had just opened and she had his machete in hand!

Tandang

Note that our trip over to Tandang was accompanied by 3 dolphins swimming together. It looked like a sign of unity

RC, Abi and Lisa were in the ocean together.

Lisa: “I always wanted to be on Survivor…I won’t volonteer that I was on a television series because…people will think that I already had my 15 minutes of fame. I don’t know if I have what it takes to play the game in a cut-throat way so I’m trying to play to my strength: I’m trying to connect with each person on a one-on-one basis...I’m excited about the game…but I’m more excited about what’s going to change inside of me.”

With that, Lisa has been sent on a Journey edit. Her story will be more about personal changes than a quest for the title. We will see that her journey will be challenged early as others plot against her so it could be a short story.

Lisa stayed behind to tend camp while the others took a walk.

RC: “Lisa…doesn’t hang out with us…So I think it’s hard to trust Lisa and it’s easy to make her a scape goat.”

RC said so to Abi, Pete and Mike and that led to Mike’s confessional: “Lisa is famous…She should be playing that trump card because young, impressionable people might be like wow! I’m a little wowed. Maybe her show is so old that they wouldn’t know who she was. I don’t know her strategy fully for not revealing who she is but I want to.”

That confessional was heard over images of the four reafferming their alliance and a shot of Lisa with Artis in the background, an indication that, if Lisa does wow the young crowd then we know who is the alternate target!

That night, Mike told Lisa he was a fan. He asked if she thought it would help to let others know.
She replied that it would be hurtful.

Mike: “I love Lisa. From an age standpoint, I fit with her more and I’m waiting for her to start playing, to start bonding. If her name comes up in a discussion about who should be voted out first, I don’t want it to be her but, if I want to be with the team that’s playing the game, I got to go with the game as opposed to your heart.”


Another Hogeboom-Danni story and Mike seems very smart about it. The audience has already been given a reason why he would vote her out if he had to but we also are prepared to see him help her get her footing in the game. Just like Gary’s fame became moreof a story for Danni, it seems that Lisa’s fame is more important to Mike’s story. He’s the one that got the confessional to explain their night time discussion.

Matsing

They were pictured by a lone Monkey

Denise was talking with the guy that I will always remember as inZane.

Denise: “I’m a licensed sex therapist so, being a therapist, I’m really curious about Zane…This guy has some story.”

The two made an alliance.

Zane: “All the jobs I had gave me a chance to interact with everybody. The jobs make me the perfect Survivor player.”

InZane proceeded to make alliances with Roxanne then with Angie and finally with the 2 other guys. Roxy had a confessional about Zane.
InZane even told the two guys that he had an alliance with all the others. (!!)

InZane told us he was a superstar! He was convinced that it was up to him to pick them apart.

Malcolm went to Denise, telling her that Zane said he had an alliance with everybody.

Malcolm: “Zane walked up and said: “Listen, I already made an alliance with everybody on this beach”!! Thanks for coming to me last. Denise is a therapist in real life and she is practiced at keeping her emotions out and drawing them out of others. She’s a good person to have teamed up with. It could very well turn out to be an alliance that I end up staying in a real long time.”

Denise asked about the long term but Malcolm would only comment on the immediate and not wanting to keep Russell around too long.

Denise: “I have this gut instinct about Malcolm. He’s young but he’s wise and instantly we just clicked…As long as my alliance with Malcolm holds true, I’m good.”

Tandang – Day 2

Mike: “I’m not happy with our progress so far…So I knew I had to take on a real strong leadership role right now and say let’s get on this.”

That’s when he first cut his finger.

RC, after telling Mike “We need you” had a confessional: “I think Skupin gives 110% constantly but, doing that, he misses the little things like the twigs or the bamboo shoot that’s going to hit you in the head. I think it’s more understandable what happened in the Outback and falling in the fire now! He doesn’t worry about injuries. He thinks he’s Superman…but maybe we need to take the machete away from him.”

Sure enough, Skupin cut his head and then his foot which looked the worst.
(I was expecting Varner to appear between two trees saying: “Mike’s an idiot” but alas…)

Mike: “…It’s the way I go through life: Act first, think second. But nothing is anywhere near an issue. I’m still good.”

Note that, after telling us who she was as a person and showing what she can do as a player, RC also narrated this little segment of tribal life. That’s rather a great start for a non-star.

Peter seeing Mike cut his finger, had a confessional: “Mike’s a complete mess. It’s not funny that he gets hurt but it’s funny that it happens over and over again. We haven’t gotten into a situation where he can really get injured but we’ll see when we get fire!”

Kalabaw

Now the little monkey was over at this camp where Jonathan set his sights on finding the idol. The monkey seems to indicate foolish behavior because everyone in camp knew what Jonathan was up to.

Katie: “I already don’t like the shady stuff that’s going on with Jonathan. We all stick together, we are like a family and he’s just off doing his thing and I don’t feel like that’s unity. He’s dangerous.”

Jonathan: “I have been looking for the immunity idol…Nowhere…Then I remember that we had a…big box with rice. It’s in the rice! I found the clue. It’s there, it’s waiting for me. I just need to find the thing.”

(With the clue saying that the idol is right under their nose, I think the idol is the square plaque that decorates the box’s cover that was shown when Jonathan said “it’s there”)

Matsing

Now we saw a snake which fits for a tribe about to blindside one of its members. The snake made it seem like Russell would be the target though.

Russell after finding the clue hidden in their bag of rice, had a confessional: “I go to cook the rice and there’s a piece of paper in there. That’s the clue, I’m good. Sheer luck!”

Russell noticed that Zane had seen him reading the clue.

Zane: “I asked Russell if he had been looking for the idol. He’s like: No, No, No. We are team mates; if I see someone looking for the idol, I’m voting them out. He’s so calm and charismatic, I kinda believe he’s already got it. If we lose the first round, we are going to get rid of Russell.”

The Challenge

The castaways appeared with war paint but we didn’t see the scenes of body painting. Another little thing that was missing from the premiere.

The strategy for the challenge seemed clearly decided by the 3 returning players although RC was heard saying that Mike and Peter should do the paddling because they were the strongest.
In Matsing, it was a horrible display by Russell who imposed his will.

During the first leg of the challenge, I noticed that a lot of blame was placed on inZane for slowing down even if they were well ahead of Dana and Katie. The two girls were still being encouraged by their tribe even if they were last. Not hearing anything negative about the pair is a good sign.

For the paddling, Carter and Kent caught up to Malcolm and Denise but there weren’t any praises for the Kalabaw pair even if they were the reason their tribe eventually won. There wasn’t any negative comments heard about Malcolm and Denise even if they were the ones that lost it. That’s good for them.

When Matsing’s box finally made it to shore, it appeared that Angie really wanted to show Russell he had been wrong by not putting her in the first leg. She was, by far, the first to come to Malcolm and Denise’s help.

Jonathan and Dawson were faster than Lisa and Abi on the final leg, winning the reward for Kalabaw. Angie took one more shot at Russell: “I told you I’m not good at puzzles.”
Russell told Jeff that he messed up but added: “There’s always a next time.”
Jeff disagreed: “There’s a next time for 5 of you. There’s not a next time for all 6 of you.”

Malcolm: “Russell Swan took over and didn’t listen to a single word anybody said so I got to see tribal on night 3.”

Matsingsanity

Zane told everyone that he didn’t have what it takes to play these challenges.
That’s pretty much all that needs to be written about this segment except to note that despite this, Russell was still on the chopping block! Zane told us he was trying to fool them, give them some honesty so that they rally around him and convince him to stay. That tactic may very well have worked on a tribe of 9 that had one extra guy but not on a tribe of 6. If he was playing chess, he should learn that you can’t sacrifice your king!

Angie: “I’m a former Miss Utah…I don’t like to lose. I am so annoyed because Russell keeps saying he’s not the leader but in the challenge he made those calls…I like Zane, he’s so funny…I’d like to keep him around.”

Just when Zane’s move started gaining momentum, he told Malcolm that he thought Russell had the idol, assuring himself that the vote had to go 5-1 against him!!!

Malcolm: “Zane is already going home but the thing is that we think Russell has the idol. The funny part is that the information comes from Zane of all people. If we vote out Russell, we are already down muscle wise…”

Denise: “The feeling is that Russell has an idol so Zane has a shot at staying but, nothing against Zane but this isn’t the point where you can have weak players. It sucks having to make those decisions.”

It’s always good to be presented as the one having a moral dilemma about the vote. Denise’s concern in such a clear cut decision is something to remember.

Russell: “I think I’m Ok but I made my first mistake today. I clicked into this chief mode if you will and thought I had to make this call. I didn’t have to.”

Tribal Council

Besides Zane’s onion, one thing that came out of Tribal Council was Denise saying that returning players are an asset, expecially with the bad weather.
We also learned that Roxy has a military background and she used it to follow orders while Angie ran track in addition to being a beauty queen.

Zane was genuinely surprised to be voted out!

The Story

Two themes stood out for me:
- Kent’s comment about the smell of blood being a reason to get booted accompanied by shots of sharks infesting the waters and the way Zane was dispatched tells me that one of this season’s theme could center around the dangers of Survivor and how people eliminate themselves from the game.
- Mike’s comment about following the pace of the game holds even more promise with players shown not playing the game yet, others going too fast too soon and others cruising at just the right speed.

Stuck in The Parking Lot

We had very little from these players. It’s possible that one or two of them will soon find the right gear and get back in the race but, for now, their story seems lacking.

Artis didn’t have a single confessionnal and he was pictured as the alternate boot if Lisa manages to bond with the others.Being presented as an outcast in the tribe isn’t good when it isn’t part of an underdog story.

Carter is lucky he wasn’t in the Amazing Race because he looked like someone that couldn’t start his car’s engine.

Lisa, being a star, is difficult to assess. Unlike Artis and Carter, she certainly had a story revealed to us but was it significant? I put her in the parking lot because Mike said he’s still waiting for her game to start. She said she’s good at bonding with others but, except for a quick scene with RC and Abi in the ocean, she hasn’t been able to bond with the younger members of her tribe. Avoiding the first TC could enable her to find her footing which would give her a good cruising speed to go far. Still, Lisa seems more destined for a journey edit than a winning one.

Katie had one confessional but it only served to further Jonathan’s story, letting us know he has one more person targeting him.

Roxanne had more airtime simply because her tribe went to Tribal Council. The rest of her story was meaningless, the only good thing being that no one compared her to Cleopatra when the tribe’s raft first reached their beach.

Dawson had two confessionals including an important one about recognizing Kent but her story didn’t take off. Her confesionals were about the tribe’s stars.

Angie, the teenage beauty queen, showed some sparks but it was only to make us doubt the outcome of the vote. It’s good that we got to hear a bit of her personal story but it felt flat, the running track comment only serving to bash Russell.


Speed Kills

Their actions have been noted and these players could have made their moves too early and Zane was certainly the poster boy for that!

Russell was remembered as a team player in Galu but not a smart strategist. Here, it was amazing how quickly he was turned into a dumb player; his confessional about avoiding leadership being linked immediately to his actions as leader of the tribe. Actions speak louder than words!

Jeff had the first confessional and his story started very quickly. His injury could lead to his exit and we saw him leading the charge against Jonathan which could also come back to bite him, especially if Jonathan finds the idol. His desire to keep his identity a secret has already been busted but we don’t know how that will unfold. It doesn’t sound promising though.

Jonathan has always shown a gregarious personality so it was troubling to see him as a loner. His search for the idol could lead to his elimination but it could also signal the start of a come back story. It will be interesting to see how Kalabaw is portrayed when they go to TC: Will Jonathan and Kent continue to be the two targets or will one of the women find the hot seat?

Heading The Wrong Way?
These players had interesting starts but there was something in their story that’s cause for worry:

Dana wanted to bond with Kent. He could be the villain on Kalabaw so that could be bad for her. Like him, she led the charge against Jonathan which could prove to be her downfall.

Abi Maria was right there with RC every step of the way but, like with Chelsea with respect to Kim, there was an inferior quality to Abi’s portrayal. She was, at best, RC’s sidekick. More than that, we heard her mention her intentions of using her feminine assets as a weapon. The role of femme fatale has often been a death blow in Survivor

Pete is part of the main alliance of Tandang and we heard he was strong but mostly we heard that he was dumb. That wasn’t a promising introduction.

Cruise Control

Denise received personal development and we saw her forming an alliance. Malcolm also told us how her job could help her in this game. A very good start for someone that, demographically, could have been the tribe’s first target.

Malcolm was presented as a strong, wise, quiet player. He already has a very interesting alliance with Denise. It’s mostly interesting in that it is rare to see the young bond with the older players so quickly. He also told us how Denise could help his game by getting the others to expose their emotions. He appears to have a good read on his tribe mates but it’s a little troubling that his fire making skills weren’t mentioned at Tribal Council however.

Michael had a great opening and we saw that, for someone who had always left the old time viewers questioning his strategic abilities, he had a good perception of the game. Moving at the same speed as his tribe is one of the most eloquent explanation of how to play the first few days that we’ve ever had. Being accident prone gave the audience a chuckle but it never really came close to being an issue so he escapes the Dumb Player label (much to Varner’s chagrin!)

RC had a wonderful premiere where we got to know her as a person, why she is lying about her real job and how that job can help in the game. We saw how she plans to play, making a quick alliance for the majority and getting everyone on the same page…almost. Her only worry would be Mike’s crush on Lisa. Despite that, we also heard RC narrating with some humor the tribe’s story. One way or another, RC is going to be an important character this season.

With Mike talking about Tandang being the team he would have picked, RC saying that with Mike on their tribe they couldn’t lose then it seems reasonable to look for our Sole Survivor in Tandang first, with RC and Mike having the best start of the 6.


"RE: Episode 1 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by suzzee on 09-28-12 at 10:42 AM
You found the idol

I do enjoy your posts in this thread michel you make some points that I missed this week, too much distraction at Casa Snoozie Wednesday night. I'm in the same boat as the second show rolled around.

Anyway I like Denise, Malcolm's chances. RC too, it will be interesting with her and Abi's alliance to see who ends up "dead to whom".

I'm grateful for no Exile, Redemption or second chance island this season, much better. The 3 tribe set up isn't much better then the other times they multi-tribed the show. I don't see that lasting long if Matsing loses another tribe member I don't want to see everyone sitting out of challenges just to make teams even.
ta ta and nicely done. S


The Coconut Gallery
We're just hanging around (temporary tag)



"Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by michel on 09-29-12 at 03:50 PM
First, thank you Suzzee. It's quiet in here but hopefully it picks up. Here is what I saw this time:

The recap, predictably, focused on the 2 stars and the returning players.
Swann was the last to be introduced and we heard him repeating that his tribe mates will have to run with him or be overrun by him.
Kent mentioned his injury.
Jeff told us that experience was key because it enabled Swann and Penner to find the clue to the Hidden Immunity Idols.
But for Penner, we heard Kent saying that they shouldn’t let a veteran win.
At Tandang, Jeff told us that RC and Abi were all smiles and we heard RC saying: “We could win together.”
We saw the formation of the alliance of 4 as they made Lisa the early target.
<Mike was shown frowning>

At the first immunity challenge, Russell’s bossiness backfired.
However, Zane shifted the blame on himself.
<Denise was heard saying that they couldn’t have weak players>
Malcolm and Angie called out Russell at Tribal Council but, in the end, Russell barely escaped.

The picture we had of Russell during episode 1 was correctly reflected in this recap so the viewers are told to expect his early elimination.

What I found most interesting was Jeff’s narrow view of what experience meant. To him, it meant that the two veterans found the clue to the idol but those two veterans were the ones in trouble. Mike’s experience served him well to get in the majority alliance but that was barely mentioned.

In Tandang, we heard that RC and Abi could win together but this episode would show that they aren’t 100% together. That puts an interesting twist on their long term potential and we’ll have to come back to it after their big scene.

It seems that Lisa’s fate in the game rests on Mike’s shoulders. That’s what his frown indicated when RC targetted the former teen star.

We weren’t reminded that Dawson recognized Kent but Denise’s importance in Matsing was shown as we saw the confessional she gave just before TC.

Crash and Burn

Matsing – Night 3

Russell had a confessional after thanking his tribe for keeping him: “I knew my head was potentially on the chopping block. I got into this tribal chief thing where it was my way or the highway and it almost got me booted out. My strategy going forward is to step back and let them rise and fall on decisions that they make. If we crash and burn, they will be on the chopping block instead of me.”

We stayed with Matsing to set up the episode’s elimination: The rains arrived and Angie needed Malcolm to keep her warm. Roxy noticed.

Angie: “It’s so cold. If it wasn’t for Malcolm, I would have frozen to death. There’s nothing going on between us, it’s just that you need to cuddle up to someone.”

Malcolm: “When I first saw Angie, I told myself: “Don’t get booty blinded. You’re here to play Survivor and make a million dollars and go home.but there’s no denying that she’s a good looking girl.”

Roxy: “I wake up in the middle of the night and Malcolm and Angie are cuddling. It’s the same game that’s set up every time and, with Angie, it’s a boobie trap and Malcolm’s falling for it. As a tribe, we need to know what’s going on because those two are dangerous. One has got to go, period.”

It didn’t take long for someone in Matsing to make a decision that would lead to her elimination. Maybe Roxy should have decided to go with the couple instead of against them!
As for the editors, they weren’t very subtle in presenting this week’s story. Can we find something inside this episode’s “crash and burn” theme that will help us for the long term? If there were some subtleties in this episode, we’ll have to dig deep to find them!

Tandang – Day 4

RC: “The weather is horrible. Everything is soaking wet. I was nervous about the rice getting moldy so I put my hand in to make sure. I had looked inside before to find the clue but I didn’t see it but this time I found it right away. Lisa was looking over my shoulder so I hope she didn’t see my face or that I didn’t give anything away.” RC told Abi to meet her at the well because she had found the clue. Her confessional continued: “Sometimes I feel that Abi could potentially use me in the future but I feel that I can use her, get her on my side, solidify her with me then that will be the strongest twosome, at least in our tribe.” The two agreed that they trusted Peter and Michael but that this was just for them. We then had another confessional from RC who was now wearing a different bra. That montage tells us just how important this scene was: “Me and Abi, we clicked from day 1 but since we haven’t had Tribal Council, our alliance hasn’t been tested. I shared the clue with her so that should be proof enough that I really trust her and no one else in this game.”

Splicing Confessionals Together.



Abi-Maria: “It’s great that RC wants to share the clue with me. I was very lucky to catch her finding the clue because she had no other choice but a side of me tells me to be careful.” She spotted RC with Mike as her confessional continued: “I don’t know if I can trust RC all the way because I feel she is getting a little too close to Mike. I catch them whispering a little too much, I catch them switching conversations when I walk in. If she screws me over, that’s it, she’s dead to me.”

Abi confronted RC who replied that Mike was like a father and she added that Abi and Peter were also close.

RC had a confessional from a different spot than the previous two: “I thought Abi was my number two, I thought she could handle it but she can go off like that and it really makes me nervous. She thinks I could be making sub-alliances but I’m not. I don’t know how to prove that to her.”

If we apply the crash and burn theme to this scene then we can have serious doubts about RC and Abi-Maria winning together. Paranoia is one of the biggest cause of crashing in this game and, as RC pointed out, they haven’t been to TC yet. Abi’s temper could cost her the game or it could bring RC’s game to a crashing end. However, Tandang didn’t even go to TC in this episode so their story could take time to play out. RC’s expression at the end was one of resignation. Can she handle Abi? That could be her story.

Kalabaw – Day 4

Kent: “I’m struggling a little bit with this weather...Survivor is going to be a long season for me…I know how to wait people out… The way things are going with my knee, sitting around and watching the rain fall could be good for me right now.”

The girls proposed making a checkerboard in the sand next to the shelter, much to Jonathan’s chagrin.

: “The down side of all this rain is that the idol is right in our camp and I can’t get them out of our shelter. I need 10 minutes just so I can dig around and find that damn idol. It’s there, it’s waiting for me but I can’t get to it!” Soon after, the tribe decided to go to the cave, leaving Jonathan behind. “Luckily, they are so concerned about the rain that they all went to the cave. The camp is empty. I’ve never had an immunity idol, I never had individual immunity at all… This is a clue to this game. I got to find this thing before they come back to camp.” The women came back to camp, looking for the flint so Jonathan had to explain what he was doing: “Dawson comes up to camp so I made up this insane story that I lost my glasses and I had to get them because the rain washed my contact lens out which was a ridiculous lie. Can’t find it, it’s right under my nose. I’m getting more and more frustrated until a light bulb comes on: If I had opened the clue, where the clue was, on top of the rice, is a little bull with a very prominent nose.” (Note that Jonathan changed shorts when he finally found the idol. How long did it reallytake him?) “For the first time in 3 tries, I have the Hidden Immunity Idol. It’s fantastic! You have the immunity idol and you feel you can dance forever. Nothing can touch you now. Of course, that’s not true. I know a lot of guys that thought they were going to dance all the way to the million and they got blindsided but those are mistakes that…listen… that’s a mistake I am not going to make, I hope.”

Unfortunately, the scene ended with Jonathan doing a little dance, jumping around and bolting out of camp. Can we say that he will crash and burn even with the idol? He’ll need allies and this idol isn’t as powerful as the one during his first season. We did see him talk to Dawson rather amicably (“that’s wonderful, sweetheart”) but is it enough to build something?

Matsing – Day 5

Roxy: “I wake up on day 5 and Malcolm and Angie are cuddling, again. I want one of them out. Malcolm is clearly more useful…I knew I needed to get Russell on my side.”

Russell: “Where people sleep in the shelter is pretty telling and Angie, a hot young chick… Survivor couples? You want to whack that thing down real quick.”

During a prolonged black and white sequence, Roxy went to Denise to expose the pair.

Denise: “Roxy sees Angie and Malcolm as a couple, as this big threat…but Malcolm and I are in an alliance. I think part of it is just a 24 year old guy wanting to snuggle up to something that is really nice to snuggle up to but now there’s a huge target on their back.”

This was an observation from a professional sex therapist! Do you need a diploma to know that 24 year old guys like good looking chicks?! All kidding aside, this confessional gave Denise the upper hand in her alliance with Malcolm because she was shown being more aware of the lurking dangers.

Malcolm’s confessional showed that he was a step behind: “This morning, there’s this very strange vibe going around camp. I’m not sure what’s going on. The tribe is talking about me and Angie snuggling up and they could see that as a threat potentially and, if that is the case, we could be in trouble.”

Tandang – Day 5

Lisa had a confessional while the tribe was talking about the food they missed: “I’m an introvert by nature so I don’t do well with chit-chat…I’m very, very shy…but in real life…I don’t let anybody in.”

Lisa walked out of camp to be alone which the tribe took as a move to look for the idol. RC seized the occasion to solidify a vote against Lisa and, strangely, Artis was the one that the camera focused on the most, suggesting once more that he will fall instead of Lisa..

Abi-Maria: “I think Lisa is a little bit sneaky. She’s just an outsider. I think she doesn’t try enough to connect with the tribe. We created an alliance and she wasn’t part of it because she wasn’t connecting with anybody else.”

Lisa while sitting alone at the water-well, had another confessional: “I don’t feel like I am fitting in. I’m already on the outside and don’t have somebody that I could trust or talk to.” The whole tribe laughed at Lisa’s predicament while her confessional resumed: “Maybe I’m not able to play this game.”

It’s not good that Mike’s role in Lisa’s story wasn’t mentioned. We were led to believe that he was someone that Lisa could trust but that wasn’t shown this time. It could be a story in waiting or it’s a dropped story. The latter wouldn’t be good for him.

Matsing – Day 6

Russell: “The last time I played Survivor, it was raining…now it’s raining again.”

Malcolm: “I haven’t been this wet in my life…Russell’s on fire duty while me and Denise are trying to keep the shelter in one piece while Roxy is just out of it…Her mind’s not in it and everyone’s noticing it.”

Roxy: “Being in seminary school and being of Christian faith, I thought God would give me great strength in this game…but I am not in my comfort zone at all. I haven’t gotten a good night’s sleep since I got here.”

Finally, the sun showed up so Roxy thanked God in prayers.
Russell told Denise he was surprised that Roxy didn’t have more character.

Denise talked about her views on Roxy’s faith: “I’m respectful but it’s just not my gig. I don’t pray for anything. Anything that’s going to get me to the end of the game, it’s going to be me.” This confessional was stressed for good measure by another one from Denise taken at another time: “We have another challenge coming on and not once does my mind go to: “Please God help us win this challenge. No. Dig in, dig deep and make it happen.”

The Challenge

Abi and Dawson sat out for their tribes.
Denise, Lisa and Dana were the designated callers for their tribe.
Neither Angie nor Roxy wanted to run twice for Matsing (but I thought they were runners!)
Of note, RC and Katie ran for their respective team, an indication that those two are perceived as the strongest women.
Malcolm did a good job, catching up on Artis and RC.
Kent’s knee wasn’t an issue as he ran twice and Kalabaw ended the race with a lead.
Jeff and Penner, RC and Pete and Russell and Malcolm worked on the puzzle.
Tandang were first to finish and the camera focused on Lisa’s instructions as if she was the key to the win.
Despite Probst saying that communication would be key in the challenge and that no one in Kalabaw was listening to Dana, Kalabaw finished second even if Matsing made it a race.

Russell showed his frustrations, slamming a puzzle piece to the ground. He told Jeff: “I’m pissed off. I’m sick of people saying “I can’t do this, I can’t handle this.” Either go hard or go home. Forget these other tribes. They can’t beat us or they shouldn’t be able to beat us.”
Jeff replied with the obvious: “Yet they have, twice.”
Russell’s answered: “Because these folks haven’t decided that they are unbeatable and that they can do this. Get your head out of your butt or go home.”

Malcolm, quite negatively, was shown during Russell’s rant as if it applied to him. Denise on the other hand, was shown approving Russell’s words as they connected to her confessional before the challenge.

Matsing – Day 6

This was the 4th scene from Matsing in this episode and all 4 centered around the upcoming vote. How much set up is needed these days? Do the editors think we are that blind? Personally, I think it would have been fun to see more of Kalabaw and Tandang but all we saw from them centered around the hidden idol. Forgive me if I don’t relate all the confessionals leading to the vote because, frankly, it’s very repetitive.

Russell: “…Angie, 20 year old beauty queen, says “I don’t think I can do this” and then Roxy says: “I didn’t have enough water to drink today.” Roxanne has been really successful at making herself a target…but I need Roxy. Every time something happens in camp, she tells me about it. She’s the one that told me about Malcolm and Angie…If Roxanne goes, I’m like, screwed.”

Roxy: “…Fraternization…spoils a group.”

Malcolm: “I thought it was a done deal that Roxy was going home.” (Duh!) “…a good looking blond girl…I’m not going to push her away but now I’m afraid it’s going to come back to bite me.”

Russell talked to Denise about his talk with Roxy, adding that Angie wasn’t that innocent and “if Roxanne goes, I’m next.”

Denise gave us the only interesting confessional of the whole segment: “At this point, Roxy and Russell are definitely aligned and I know Malcolm and Angie are aligned. I’m caught in the middle of all of this. I can’t put my finger on it but there is something about Roxy that I just don’t trust. At the same time, even if I have my alliance with Malcolm, if someone is snuggling and I’m the odd one out, I’m on the bottom and I don’t want to be on the bottom.” Denise told Russell that she warned Malcolm about being “blinded by the headlights” which was the episode’s title, Then her confessional continued: “The problem is there are pros and cons about keeping both but I’ve got to do what’s best for me so, again I feel pretty sure what my vote is going to be but it’s a long way to tribal Council and I’ll have to figure it out.”

Tribal Council

Jeff immediately turned to Russell and his show of emotions at the challenge.
Russell said “this means a lot to me.”
Denise said she understood Russell’s accusations.
Asked what she would change about the tribe, Roxy said they should work less in camp (!!)
Like everyone in the audience thought, Denise said that Roxy didn’t make sense.
Asked the same question, Angie said that she would like the tribe to have cookies.
(!!!! Where do they get these people?!)
Jeff must have been glued to his seat because he didn’t fall over. He did turn to Malcolm for his reaction to the cookie answer.
Malcolm tried to be diplomatic but Jeff wouldn’t allow it.
Russell explained that Survivor was new to Angie and she would have to learn to give everything in each challenge.
Roxy said there was more than friendship between Angie and Malcolm.
Jeff’s look intimidated Malcolm.
Malcolm explained that they were snuggling, that Angie was like his little sister.
Roxy found that creepy, adding that Angie was like a boobie trap (which would have made for a good title in itself)
The two girls agreed they wouldn’t cuddle next to each other
Jeff asked Russell about his thoughts on the duo soon to form half the tribe.
Russell said it was the tightest alliance you could have in this game.
Jeff tried to get a reaction from Angie even telling her to wake up but she didn’t get into the argument.
Malcolm said he also had a good relationship with the group.

In the end, Roxy was voted out 4-1 so even Russell voted against her.
We saw Malcolm giving Roxy an ironic little wave as she walked away.

Jeff ended the council saying fortunes can change very fast in this game.

The Story


Was there any progression to the story in this episode? The second episode of most season is rarely a great one because its scope is usually limited to reaffirming the stories introduced in the premiere and maybe introducing some new characters. Here? We had nothing except Matsingsanity which had been thoroughly exploited in the premiere.
Is Kalabaw hidden before showing us a great story? It feels more like they are being ignored.
Tandang’s story got a little twist this week, That was the only interesting moment of the episode because the rest centered on (or should I say between) Angie’s breasts.

The Characters

Artis, Carter, Katie, Dawson and Dana received nothing new and they had nothing coming in.
At most, we can say that Artis looks more and more like the first player that would be eliminated in Tandang.
We were told that no one listens to Dana so she shouldn’t play a big role in the season.
Dawson may become close to Jonathan. There was affection in his tone when he talked to her as she was leaving for the cave but will it lead to anything?

Michael was mostly absent from this episode but we heard that he was like a father to RC. In an episode that centered so much in Matsing, his absence may not mean much and his story is expected to resume next week.


Set Up for the Crash
They come in two types; Those we want to see crash and those we hope will survive:

Angie looks like someone that doesn’t know anything about the game, asking for cookies during Tribal Council. Mostly, she seems to be intimidated by the camera, not knowing what to say.

Russell said it himself: With Roxy gone, he doesn’t stand a chance. Of course, Angie would have to be let go first if Matsing goes right back to TC. All-Stars had 4 episodes before the 3rd tribe was dissolved into the other two so the players should be expecting a similar schedule. Lose the 3rd IC and Angie goes. Win the 3rd but lose the 4th and Russell becomes expendable…maybe. Despite how it works out, Russell’s story doesn’t feel like a long lasting one.

Pete: We barely saw him but we heard that he’d shoot Lisa just like he’d shoot a stray dog. That wasn’t meant to endear him to the audience.

Abi Maria: We mostly saw that she was paranoid during this episode. Her worries about RC weren’t warranted. In real life, being suspicious is a good thing because it keeps you on your toes but, in editing, it isn’t a good sign that we saw her insecurities, especially when it was all in her head.

Jonathan: He had a very nice scene but I heard him say that, after finding an idol “a lot of guys thought they were going to dance all the way to the million” and then I saw him doing a little dance himself so that can’t be a good sign. I expect that Jonathan will survive a little while longer but he is set up to crash despite finding the idol.

Lisa: Just like Angie, Lisa is set-up to crash and burn. The audience would expect her to be voted out if Tandang goes to Tribal Council but I don’t think she will. Angie is shown as a dumb player but we heard that Lisa is a smart player and that she is able to bond with people so I expect her story will take on a new trajectory before long.

Dangers are Lurking:

Jeff: He is the leader of Kalabaw: He led them to the cave and he led them during the challenge, running two legs and solving the puzzle. Despite that, most of his story centers around the condition of his knee. If Kent was to make it to the end, we would have heard more from him and it would have centered around his strategy instead of his knee. Add that Kalabaw is not the tribe of interest and we can say that Jeff won’t make it to the end. Will he fall to Jonathan’s idol? Maybe but anyone in Kalabaw should know that the idol has been found and he told us that Survivor will be a long season for him.

Malcolm: He had a good premiere but he lost his focus, falling for the cute girl in the bikini. Yes, he can outlast his snuggling partner and his story can have more chapters than this one but he unnecessarily put a target on his back and that shows a lack of game savvy.

RC: Did RC make a fatal mistake by trusting Abi-Maria? Maybe, but most probably this was part of the doubt that we see for players that are destined to go far. The audience got to know RC in the first two episodes and now we can connect with her as she faces a potential dangerous situation. We heard that she could win with Abi but can she win without her? How will she handle the hot tempered Brazilian?

Denise: Her story stands in sharp contrast to Matsing’s foolishness. I’d even say that we spent all that time in Matsing so that we could hear her marvelous confessional where she put herself in the middle of the two couples and where she had to make the decision that was best for her. Denise should find her way to the end even after Matsing crashes and burns.


"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by suzzee on 10-01-12 at 03:34 PM
As for the editors, they weren’t very subtle in presenting this week’s story. It's the editing brick. It's the type of edit a new show gets when trying to attract viewers. "Let's make it dramatic but not hard to see."

It makes me wonder if that's why everyone isn't getting some air time, like they're not long term important until they're the focus of their own demise or part of a "main player's" story.

Has editing backed off on the misdirection and opted for "right under your nose" this season? (HI clue pun intended )



Tribe Vibe


"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by michel on 10-01-12 at 05:29 PM
It looks like it's just you and me, Suzzee. I'm glad you're here but I also remember the good ol' days whan this place was buzzing.

If they are hitting us over the head then Jonathan becomes a viable winner. I thought his episode 1 confessional was too arrogant but maybe it's that simple: He'll get his million in 39 days. Hopefully, the winner's story is a bit more hidden.


"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by Round Robin on 10-02-12 at 00:46 AM
I don't think they've backed off that much on the misdirection, but I think they're trying to mix things up editing-wise so the show doesn't get too easy to figure out. If they followed the same patterns all the time it would be so easy to figure out what's going to happen next that boards like this would go dead eventually. After Survivor was only a few seasons old, the patterns had gotten so well known that experienced Survivor watchers could predict future episodes with little need to even read this or other fansites. Now thanks to Marko and company throwing us a few curves here and there, figuring the show out ain't as simple as it used to be.

"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by glennyfromtheblock on 10-02-12 at 04:51 AM
Sorry it's taken me two weeks to jump on board - work has been ridic so getting five minutes to myself to collect my thoughts has been a challenge. I'll try to write something proper for next week but wanted to jot down my immediate thoughts on the first two episodes as we all seem to have differing opinions for once!

Firstly, there is no point even mentioning Carter, Katie, Dana, Pete and Artis. They all have literally zero things going on. Of them, I'd say Artis is in imminent danger the first time Tandang goes to TC. I'll address this more with Lisa and Abi-Maria, but he's got no story and will be probably be the alternative boot to Lisa based on Tribal Dynamics.

The whole Kalabaw Tribe is a giant blank to me. It's so interesting that the most physically dominant tribe is getting no love. It took me two episodes to work out that Carter and Dana weren't the same person and, even still, I can't tell them apart without title cards. We're not being shown any depth in their dynamics at all, so even if they win their way to the inevitable reshuffle (which I'm guessing will be E4 unless they chicken out and do it earlier like in Cook Islands or Exile Island, although those teams had smaller tribes, hence needing to have a split scheduled earlier to prevent a repeat of Stephenie circa Palau), none of them are getting anywhere near a chance of winning.

As far as the outcome of their first boot, I think that Jeff is being set up to go soon. He's a rival to Penner and a lot of time is being invested in reminding us of his bum knee. I think this is going to be his downfall, although not sure whether it's a medevac situation or more a case of him purely not being able to compete well. I actually think Penner will come out on top of that power struggle, but sadly I don't see any real story there with him either. Not sure how far he'll go as I find returnee edits really fricking difficult to predict because they're not balanced, but I don't think he's long term. Might make the merge, but that's best case scenario - he's not end game. We are meant to care that he found the idol and the fact that that is emphasized over the fact that he is playing awfully by ostracizing himself from the tribe (necessitating said idol's use undoubtedly), makes me think he'll come out on top initially.

Dawson is getting a little attention, but not enough to make it any further on Penner or have any real impact on the season, which is a shame as she's a great narrator, but it's hard to be a narrator on a tribe with no story. She's purely being used to further Penner and Jeff's situations.

Matsing is a Hot Mess, but they're my favourite to watch. I don't really get the feeling most of them are long for the game, but Malcolm and Denise might scrape though. Malcolm clearly has the most legs and had a fantastic episode but took a big hit in E2. On one hand, he did get to explain he was aware of his failings with Angie, but what I thought was missing if he were the winner is the fact that we didn't get to see how he negotiated his way out of it by securing her safety this week. Had there have been a scene where we saw him appealing to Denise to save her, I'd have liked his chances more, but we didn't get it. I'd still say he makes it quite far based on episode one, but I don't think he's going to win.

Denise is one that I'm not entirely sure about. On one hand, she's probably my favourite new contestant (between her and Malcolm), but there's something missing for me on a gut level, but I don't know exactly what it is. Again, I think she'll go far, but I need to see another episode to pinpoint how far that is. She is getting some care and color though, so she'll be around for a while.

Russell is in an interesting position. Last week I thought he was dead man walking but now I think he's got a few more weeks in him - at least until a swap or if Matsing gets down to 3. He's clearly not winning even if he got a more likable edit this week. I don't think he's even going to make the merge by a long shot.

I'm actually curious to see how much longer Angie can hang on. Even after Cookie-gate, I think we're meant to like her. She might get voted out purely because there is no other choices, but she could also hang around for a while ala Sugar if a swap works in her favour. Again, not winning, but could go either way as far as longevity.

And then we have Tandang, who despite not having to go to TC yet, are getting far and away the most complex edit of the season. If the winner doesn't come from here, I'll eat Penner's Hat.

Right off the bat, I think we can discount Artis, Pete and Abi Maria. Artis I think will be gone first as mentioned earlier (in place of a Lisa boot). Pete has no story and no real likability factor (except for those of us with EYES). Abi-Maria *may* stick around, but my money is on her going quite soon as she will most likely explode in a fit of paranoia and temper tantrums. How she affects RC's edit in the coming weeks interests me most. On one hand, she made RC quite likable this week but, at the same time, RC was shown as not being able to control her, and the way that scene ont he beach was editied made RC look weak. Might be nothing, but it bothered me a little as RC in E1 was a definite potential winner.

Lisa is an interesting one for me as I've never heard of her or seen her show in my life. So, in the same way I always struggle a little with returnee edits, I do too with the C-Grade celebs they keep getting on these days. That being said, she's getting a ridiculously layered and complex edit, way too much for someone who is going to go anytime soon. It reminds me a lot more of Dawn or Holly. It's incredibly sympathetic and my only concern is it is still showing that she is at fault for her place in the tribe. If she was the winner, I don't think we would have seen that to the degree it has been presented. Not discounted, but still a contender - endgame for sure regardless.

And that just leaves Mike Skupin himself. His E1 edit was Classic Winner. He was likable. He got some personal shades. He got to outline his strategy clearly AND a lot of care was taken to show that it was spot on. His alliance with Lisa is clearly the one to watch BUT it was also used to make the audience like him more. I never particularly cared for him during the Outback, but he's probably the first returnee that I don't resent for being brought back to an uneven playing field. Even his constant injuries is being shown to make him endearing. In E2, he had a nice cooldown but still managed to be very present. Honestly - I'll be shocked if he doesn't win. Worst case scenario would be he's the F4 boot, but we got too much carefully articulated strategy for me to think that will happen.

WINNER PICKS :- MIKE >>> LISA >>>> RC >>>>>>>>>>> DENISE >> MALCOLM


"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by parathor on 10-03-12 at 03:51 PM
Those are definitely the top 5 people in my book, too, gftb. Mike is getting a winner's edit. RC was shown positively in Abi's accusation. Lisa is awesome, but I don't think she can win, really. Denise & Malcolm would benefit from a switcheroo, but even then they'd probably be down in numbers, and easy pickings. Still... they do seem developed...

"Episode 2 Thoughts"
Posted by crispy06 on 10-02-12 at 12:18 PM
I'll start off with Masting
This is the decimated tribe and it's not getting any better, but they are still the funniest tribe to watch.

Russell- Basically dead in the water at this point, his tribe doesn't see him as an asset and he's doesn't play an important role in strategic decisions. His only hope now is a tribe swap.

Angie-the weakest member of her tribe but her relationship with Malcolm is smart because it saved her atleast this week. If she can make it to the merge than she is in good shape, no one will target her first.

Malcolm-this episode decreased his chances of winning, he's made to look foolish for falling for the 'dumb blonde'. He made himself a target when he did not have to, bad game play. Lucky for him, his alliance member didn't think the threat was big enough to get rid of Angie.

Denise- she is the best position as the swing vote this episode and playing a very smart game. No one will go after her in the likely case that Masting goes to tribal again. She is definitely making to a tribe swap or merge atleast. She also has the best chance of winning from this tribe because we always get sound reasons why she is voting a certain way.

Kalabaw- I don't know what to say about this tribe because they continue to win and yet we still know nothing about anyone except Jeff's knee and Jonathan Immunity idol. No one has a chance to win on this tribe except those two but Dana and Dawson do have some connections to them.

Jeff- continues to get confessionals about his knee but it hasn't affected him in challenges yet. I wonder if his story down the line is an eventual medivac? Otherwise I;m not sure why it's being highlighted so much.

Jonathan-so he finally found the idol, now what? He hasn't been shown making any alliances or connections with any players so maybe it's because it doesn't matter in the pre-merge? Maybe he turns on his original tribe after a swap or merge. He's still not winning though with this one-note edit.

Dawson- she's shown almost finding Jonathan looking for the idol but doesn't comment? I would expect something from her since she seems to be so aware of things. Not good at all.

Dana- Jeff says in the challenge that 'no one listens to her'. Maybe she is the last Kalabaw standing after a huge powerplay/overthrow?

Last but not least Tandang. The most complex tribe, all the relationships are laid out. There is an alliance of 4, with two side pairs of Abi/Pete and Mike/RC; some conflict between RC?Abi, Lisa on the outside and Artis supposedly in a 5-person alliance(useless on a 6 person tribe)

RC- she is shown to be game aware and leader but she is also shown to be wary of Abi. I think the edit is pointing us to a show-down between the two, maybe a possible blindside? I noted in episode one she talks about 'having to trust somebody' well it looks like she trusted the wrong person. Still good winner chances but they have decreased with this episode.

Abi- she's a real firecracker. Out of nowhere threatens RC because she is talking with Mike. Paranoia does crazy things to people, she better be careful or else it could take her out of the game.

Lisa-we know she is a loner, outsider and isn't fitting in. Atleast she is self-aware, but now she has to do something. I suspect she will and last a long time, but she isn't winning. Her story is of the underdog rising up.

Pete-he's been established as part of an alliance of four and paired up with Abi but he has nothing to say about it. He's not important to the story even though he probably makes the merge in some capacity.

Artis- atleast he is in the 5 person alliance? But he doesn't talk about it. I suspect because he doesn't matter in the long run either.

Mike-Nice cool down and we learned that he was close with RC. But he doesn't comment on it, so i don't know what that means. Is his r/s with Lisa more important? At any rate, he was shielded from the overall negative vibe that his tribe gives off in regards to Lisa. Still strong chances to win.


"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by dabo on 10-02-12 at 01:07 PM
I would just add that I took the shooting a stray dog comment as a misapropriation. It used to be common wisdom that you would shoot a mad dog if you came upon one. Pete may have heard that at some point and incorporated it, but misunderstood it to apply to feral (stray) dogs. Mad dog is an American colloquialism for a rabid dog, and of course any animal with rabies is dangerous to the community and should be eliminated. It is actually a kindness as the animal would die of the disease anyway, terrible way to die, but the longer it is allowed to live the more danger there is of it spreading the disease.

Nowadays rabies can be treated and cured if caught early enough, but in the past it was an instant death curse on anyone who caught it.


"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by michel on 10-02-12 at 06:49 PM
Thank you for the information. Very interesting but I do believe that Survivor editing is much more superficial: We are meant to consider that Pete shoots stray dogs and laughs about it. There was absolutely no need to close-caption that sentence but they did.

"RE: Episode 2 - Editing Thoughts "
Posted by parathor on 10-03-12 at 03:53 PM
I didn't take it to mean "stray" dogs... I heard/interpreted it as "when your own dog starts jumping out of your yard, you've got no choice but to shoot it."

Maybe he thought it was funny. I thought it was evil.


"Episode 3 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-05-12 at 06:30 PM
The recap told us that Kent was leading the charge to eliminate Jonathan but Jonathan’s long quest to find the idol finally paid off.
At Tandang, Lisa…was looking like the first to go.
When RC found the clue to the Hidden Immunity Idol, she decided to share with her closest ally, Abi but RC found that every clue doesn’t lead to happiness.

At the immunity challenge, an intense battle between the three tribes gave Matsing their second loss in a row and Russell took it the hardest.

Back at camp, Russell and Roxy targeted Angie for flirting with Malcolm but Angie and Malcolm wanted Roxy gone, leaving Denise stuck in the middle.
Denise: “I’ve got to think long term.”
At Tribal Council…Denise sided with her ally, Malcolm.

Playing a New Hand

Matsing

Angie: “Roxy…wanted to go out with a bang…We are down to four now and each and everyone of them trusts me and I trust them and they know that me and Malcolm are nothing but friends.”

Russell: “That alliance between Angie and Malcolm is real and pretty tight. At the end of the day, that’s two votes and all they need is one more.”

Tandang

Abi had a confessional while we saw that she and RC were sunbathing: “I’m concerned because I am in a little bit of trouble. I’ve got my knee injured…and I’m not trusting RC with that clue for the idol anymore.”

RC: “Me and Abi, we built an alliance from day 1…I really trust her and I’m 100% with her but she is a little more hesitant and her paranoia is getting the best of her right now. Abi got hardcore with our conversation. We gave each other our word, our word is our bond. I shared the clue with her and that should be proof enough that I trust her and no one else in this game.”

RC went for a swim with Mike, telling him her frustrations about Abi.
Abi went to Peter, telling him about the clue.

Abi: “We were in an alliance of Mike, RC, Peter and I but Peter is a little more genuine with me so I shared the news with Peter. We have the clue and we want to find it before RC does.”

Peter had a confessional: “I don’t like stepping into things before I know exactly what’s going on.” The confessional was cut so that we could hear Peter telling Abi he trusts her but not RC. His confessional went on: “I’ll pay attention to everything that’s going on around me. It’s like I’m on surveillance. I’m sitting there, listening because then I know what moves to make.”

After this, Peter went for a walk in the jungle with Lisa, asking her if she wanted to stay in the game, adding people had been targeting her.
Peter had another confessiona: “I feel an alliance is only as strong as the day it’s made and they wanted to put Lisa on the chopping block and get rid of her first but I like Lisa and I don’t have any problem with her and she’s someone that I can see later in the game easily getting rid of.”

Peter asked Lisa if she’d be OK getting rid of Mike.
The music hit a particularly ominous note and Lisa had a confessional: “Peter is wanting to blindside Mike and I would prefer to blindside RC but Peter is the one that’s calling it so I need to lay low and go with him.”
After this, Lisa told Peter he just needed to tell her what to do.
Peter said they’d have three votes: “Me, you and Abi and he’s gone.”

Lisa: “It feels like I’m dealt a new hand every day and every day, I have to play the hand that I have. You’re always up and down…Today I am…cautiously up.”

This is the first hand we’ve seen Lisa playing so could this confessional have been taken from further down the road? Maybe we will see her being dealt another hand, one which won’t be served by Peter.


Kalabaw

Kent after Dana noticed that the plaque was gone from the rice box, had a confessional: “There was an emblem that was nailed to the top of the rice box. We noticed that that piece is gone now.”

Kent assembled his team, telling them about the missing plaque.
Carter finally opened his mouth to say that the plaque was probably the idol.
Kent wasn’t pleased to hear that. “I bet Jonathan has it” he said.

Kent: “I’m pissed off and absolutely not at Jonathan. I give him props: It was in our face! We weren’t even curious about it and that’s a pure veteran move.” Carter, suddenly a talking machine, said that they could act like they don’t know about the idol if they lose a challenge. That led to the conclusion of Kent’s confessional: “I don’t want to confront Jonathan about the idol. We might be able to pull a little blindside. Maybe we can get Jonathan off with the idol in his pocket. I’m still ticked off that I let the idol slip right between my eyes.”

We returned to a scene reminiscent of Thailand: A raft drifting far away from shore.

Matsing – Day 7

Malcolm: “Woke up this morning and Denise looks down the beach and sees that our raft is gone…Little bit of a morale downer. That could come back to haunt us. From a tribe of 6 we are already down to 4 and me and Denise have been tight since the beginning. It’s not me and Angie like everyone believes. If we go back to Tribal Council, it’s going to go down to Angie or Russell but right now, there is no clear cut choice to go home.”

Denise jocked that it was Malcolm in the middle.

Denise: “There was such a focus on Malcolm and Angie at Tribal Council but I’m still holding that trust that it’s Malcolm and I when the time comes, he’ll cut Angie. Because it’s a numbers game, I feel much better having Russell because we have to win a challenge.”

Malcolm wasn’t as decisive but I found it funny that Denise’s “Not this soon” was said just before we were flown to the challenge platform. Having the immunity challenge shown only 20 minutes into the show has to be close to a record. For a moment, I thought Jeff would say that only 1 tribe would be immune, leaving time for 2 TCs but not even. They really don’t have much interesting footage to show…

The Challenge

It was another occasion for Mike to get injured but the challenge featured RC and Denise, each doing a great job. RC went three times in a row but Jeff was mostly cheering for Denise: “Wow, Denise! Incredibly fast! Denise back in record time…Denise is a machine, making up a lot of time…Denise back in the water for the third time” even if, by then, RC had picked up 4 pieces and was the only woman to go for the deepest piece.

Angie: “Russell is the weak link.”

Kalabaw – Day 8

Dana after the tribe shared high fives, had a confessional: “The challenge was awesome. We won some fishing stuff…we are an hungry tribe.”

Jonathan: “The challenge was fantastic but, as we are coming back, I am a little bit nervous. I believe that, Jeff knows I am experienced player, he is very warry of me. I want him to be on my side and I want him to trust me.”

The two men talked by the ocean and Jonathan revealed that he had the idol without being asked.
Jeff said he’d ride in Jonathan’s boat for a while.

Kent: “Jonathan told me he had the idol…I’ll try to befriend him a little bit and forge a better relationship. I got to figure out what’s best for me. This is a ME game, this isn’t a WE game. At the end, we wanted to cut a deal with a handshake so I gave him a four finger handshake, not a manly shake…If I’m not committed, if it’s not a manly shake, it’s not going to count.”

Jeff then showed us that the four finger handshake was in reality a gun pointing at his victim.

This scene sets up an interesting future confrontation. With Kalabaw getting stronger each cycle, it stands to reason that their confrontation will not occur in the next episode or so. Therefore, we can say that these two players will be long term players. Dana could very well accompany them because now she has the role of Kalabaw’s narrator. Are the viewers listening to Dana though?!!

Tandang

Artis despite the tribe’s laughter, had a bitter confessional: “Today’s challenge was quite disappointing for me. The positive is; we don’t have to go to Tribal Council. The negative is; we should have won. The problem was Mike decided to dive face first into the water with the mask, that’s when the mask cracked, after telling me not to dive with the mask who dove with the mask, no problem whatsoever. I’m about fed up with Mike; now he’s in my sights.”

Artis’ confessional simple served to put doubt in Mike’s chances to survive. As we have learned over the years, that tells us that Artis will not get his way. The dangers for Mike though were about to increase as he went looking for clams with RC and Lisa.

Abi’s search for the idol was preceded by the image of a snake ready to strike.

She had two confessionals put together to narrate the events: “While everyone is talking clams, I am getting on to work…I thought it was going to be either me finding the immunity idol or RC so I took the opportunity, I went after it.”

Peter after Abi showed him the idol: “Abi found the immunity idol. This is a good thing because she is basically my right-hand-man. I am thinking I can get Artis and Lisa to do whatever I want so it’s going to be a lot easier to get rid of Mike and neutralize RC.”

Pete’s confessional was cut in two and, right in the middle of it, we heard Abi saying she didn’t want to do anything stupid with the idol, foreshadowing that she will probably do something stupid with the idol. But this created an interesting tribal dynamic: The person that found the clue, RC, has no idea that the idol has been found by her trusted ally. And, for a rare occasion, the idol belongs to the faction that the audience isn’t meant to like.

Matsing – Dragging on and on -

Malcolm: “It’s tragic that I am stuck here with the goon squad of tribes…Nothing’s gone right. This is the bunch of goon’s I get stuck with? Thank God for Denise. Denise was a war horse today. That little munchkin of muscle just cranked it out.”

Denise and Malcolm were talking about Angie and Russell when Angie innocently joined them, trying to convince them she wasn’t the weak link.

Denise: “I think it would be a ridiculous choice to keep Angie at this point but I don’t know if I can get Malcolm to vote Angie.”

Russell went to meditate alone on the beach. The music was funereal and his words made for a great ending to his story so, even if he did survive this vote, his “eulogy” has already been written.

Russell: “Everybody has their weaknesses. Mine showed up today.”

Malcolm and Angie were sharing their last moments together but she was still trying to save herself, agreeing with Malcolm that Russell quit the challenge.

Malcolm: “Today is tough. Between Angie and Russell, it’s a toss up for different reasons. I haven’t talked strategy with Russell since day 1. Angie, on the other hand, I wouldn’t say she’s in my pocket, but she will do whatever we want her to do. I got to keep myself positioned as strong as I possibly can.”

Russell: “There are a lot of people that have come before me…My ancestors…people whose shoulders I stand on have persevered and, at the end of the day, that is where I am going to draw my strength because, to not continue to fight would be to spit in the face of all those people who endured so much more that I will ever endured in my life and definitely in this damn game.”

Tribal Council

Jeff asked Denise what she sacrificed to be on Survivor.
She talked about missing her family and hurting her business.
Malcolm said that it was his dream to be on Survivor and that now he was heartbroken.
He laid the blame on those that struggled and those that knew were capable of doing more but didn’t.
“The people that can do it have to step up, the rest have to go home.”
Angie tried to save herself by painting Russell as a quiter.
Russell fought back, saying Angie wasn’t ready for 30 more days but he was. His attack made her cry but he certainly had a point.
Malcolm came to Angie’s defense by pointing out that Survivor’s sit-out rules forced Angie into a role that the young women on the other tribes didn’t have to play.
Denise and Malcolm both talked about the importance of loyalty.

The vote gave Angie the role she is more suited for: Matsing’s cheerleader.

Jeff said goodnight after hoping they had the right combination of people to turn this game around.

The Story.

Despite the tedious continuation of Matsing’s agony, a new theme emerged in this episode and it came from Lisa’s confessional: Many of the key players were dealt a new hand in this episode and the dynamics of both undefeated tribes changed significantly.

In Tandang, it’s RC and Mike against the others and I noted an interesting symmetry: RC has Abi and Lisa wanting to go after her while Mike has Pete and Artis already gunning for him. Pete is calling the shots right now but can he get what he wants? That’s the story of Tandang and the tribe has a very interesting development despite staying away from Tribal Council.

In Kalabaw, it’s Jonathan versus Kent even if the two came to an understanding and Kent wants to ride in Penner’s boat “for a while”. Compared to Pete, Kent has been front and center since the beginning so he could prevail even if Penner already made him look foolish with a veteran’s move.

As for Matsing, I’d liked their chances better if the previews had mentioned that Matsing was reaching a turning point instead of a defining moment. The tribe is already defined: Losers. The only question is: Can a winner emerge from a losing tribe?

The Characters

Carter, Katie and Dawson still don’t have roles and one of them will be voted out if Kalabaw ever goes to TC in its present form and Kent decides to stay with Jonathan.

Artis got a small role, the foe that gets one scene in the whole movie only to put a target on one of the stars. His negativity during a moment of celebration for his tribe stood out as a clear indication that he won’t be long in the game.

Dana’s role is now that of narrator for Kalabaw. It’s worth mentioning, especially in this case when the other three members could be seen as having more of the TV look.

Russell’s story is over: He has persevered, forced Malcolm to get rid of Angie but now this damn game will get the better of him.

Malcolm is shown as a nice guy and a strong player but we kept hearing him say that the choice between Angie and Russell was a tough one. Denise made it clear that there was no hesitation to have, that it was ridiculous to boot Russell. That makes Malcolm the good but somewhat Dumb Player. It was also bad for him that we heard his criticisism of his tribe and his praises for Denise. That means Denise is the important character in Matsing. Sometimes doubts surrounds a player simply because there are good reasons to doubt his chances and that’s what I see for Malcolm. He may make it to the merge but, for him, he needs the numbers and he certainly won’t get it.

Speaking of doubts, there seems no way for Denise to make it to the point where she will be able to win this game. But, Jeff certainly wanted us to note her valor even if RC’s challenge performance was just as impressive. Her role could be that of the Hero: The person of valor that has all sorts of challenges in her way and overcomes most of them. That edit usually gets rewarded by Fan Favorite instead of Sole Survivor. Still, of the players that didn’t get a new hand dealt to her, she is one that could win.

New Hands

Jonathan has found a new ally, for a while. Can he keep Jeff in his boat or will the ex-baseball player pull off a mutinee on one of the original mutineers? For now, Jonathan is on a very strong tribe so he has time to forge that relatrionship with Kent and then, maybe, he can pull another veteran’s move to outlast him.

Peter, despite his great confessional about doing surveillance until he knows what moves to make, sounded like the character that will see his plans fail. There was no care given to Pete in the first two episodes. The editors usually build up the players that are going to become successful manipulators. Right now, it looks that whatever Pete says, we’ll see the opposite happening. He says he likes Lisa and offered her an alliance because he can get rid of her later. Compared to Mike’s genuine sentiments for Lisa, I think Pete’s connection to Lisa will come back to hurt him.

Abi makes for quite the cute villain! Finding the idol before RC was a big move and telling Peter about it made it a very bold one. There’s no real care given to her character to make us think that she will evolve into the master mind that we come to admire. Most probably, she will do something stupid with the idol and pay dearly for it.

Lisa saw her game get jump started in a hurry when she was asked to join Peter and Abi in order to boot Mike. However, Peter thinks he can get rid of her easily later on but, by then, she will have figured out how to play the game.

Jeff is presented as a strong player that could very well better Jonathan. Note that he gave Penner some props about the idol, calling it a veteran move so we can’t say he’s too arrogant even if his trigger hand was a very bold gesture. He’s in control of his tribe and Jonathan wants to work with him instead of using the idol against him so Jeff should stick around for a while.

RC is presented as a likable person, one that laughs with Mike and doesn’t want to have a fight with Abi but she is also presented as being very naïve for trusting the nervous Brazilian. Like Lisi in Fiji, she got the clue, told someone about it but was kept in the dark when that person found it. However, RC’s presentation is miles apart from Lisi’s. RC is presented as a capable player, strong in challenges, a good provider and likable in camp. The events have put her in a precarious position but the way it was handled gives her the role of the underdog we want to see succeed.

Mike will probably need a veteran’s move to get out of his predicament but he seems oblivious to the dangers. Not only the dangers found in nature but the ones that his tribe mates have in mind. We saw him befriending Lisa in the first episode so that could be the lifeline he will need when Peter comes after him. There are plenty of doubts surrounding Mike and he has a very low profile type of story: He works hard for his tribe, even getting injured along the way. That’s just like his story in Australia, he’s leaving everything on the playing field and Australia’s edit had a lot of viewers saying he deserved to win. Therefore, to see him walking along the same path is a very good sign.


"RE: Episode 3 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by glennyfromtheblock on 10-08-12 at 07:44 PM
Another episode and another loop I'm thrown. Well, not so much a loop as just one that has made me doubt somewhat how I saw this season playing out in the premiere. But, then, maybe that's the point?

Basically, even though Matsing Ulong'd their way to yet another TC, I felt this was all a set up for when one of the other two tribes loses, maybe next week finally? Out of the two, I'd say Tandang is looking more likely as the amount of detail we've been given is unecessary UNLESS they have to boot someone quick.

Kalabaw is still basically pointless. Jeff got a lot of nice detail but I still don't feel like he's got legs (or strong knees *boom tish, etc*) To me, I still feel like his story is (a) bum knee and (b) doesn't trust Jonathan. Now, he could be getting set up to be the last surviving member of his tribe or something, but I feel like the whole 'handshake' scene was shown to give him an underlying doucheiness that I don't think we're meant to sympathize with. What could have been a great game strategy confessional became about how he was basically childish and immature. Not a good sign and something I don't think would be included if he wasn't going to come out with the short end of the stick.

Penner isn't looking much better. He's still going to be around for a bit (at least to outlast most if not all of his current tribe), but he's not winning. He's around til that Idol is played and that's about it.

As for the rest, I don't think they're going next week, but that's only because Survivor lately seems to give the one dimensional characters focus for the episode prior to their boot, so if Dawson, Katie or the one that's not Dana starts getting confessionals, I'd be expecting them to go the following episode.

On Matsing, Russell is so Dead Man Walking at this point no matter what shuffles the game may bring, that I can't even be bothered.

Malcolm and Denise still have legs but I still feel both are missing a certain something to be winners. Denise in particular I'm a little worried about but I can't put my finger on why. My biggest fear is she's going to get Jill from Nicaragua'd or something like that. I hope not though because she's kind of The Best.

Which just leaves Tandang. This episode set us up to believe that all the power is with Pete, Lisa and Flabbi-Maria. Which all makes sense, except for the fact the first episode very clearly set up RC, Mike and Lisa as the three people on this tribe with the most well rounded and long term edits. The effort they have gone these last two episodes to put these three in danger makes me think some big shake up is one the way, either because of a TC or a switch, most likely the former.

E1 took such great lengths to link Lisa and Michael that I'd be shocked if they don't somehow start actively working together very soon. Lisa had a fantastic series of confessionals in The Insider this week about Michael and RC's relationship and where she fit in that I'm shocked they didn't use. If Lisa was the winner, there would be no way they'd skip it as it was shockingly astute and strategically sound. The only other reason I don't think she will win (even though I think she's going to be around til the endgame) is that she was portrayed as so damned socially inept in the first episode that I don't think they'd let a winner been seen that way.

RC had a great Insider clip as well about Abi-Maria and one about Michael, the former clip though showed her to be even more naive about the reality of the situation and the latter made Michael sound more useless and neutered than we're seeing, so both of these are interesting points that the editors are obscuring. We're definitely meant to root for RC, but I'm now less sure she's endgame than I was before. I'd still say she'll be around for a while, but she could be being set up as a Victim, although there was so much complexity given to her in E1 that I can't imagine they'd waste that time and care if she was shortterm.

Abi-Maria is sitting in a great place right now but I just don't think it's going to last. Technically she's playing a good (albeit overly emotional and paranoid) game. But all we're being shown is that she's crazy and unjustly paranoid. Even Alicia One World wasn't this shallow and one note. Which is why I don't think she's going to be around like the latter.

Lastly, there's Michael. He's still as close to a Winner Pick that I have right now, but they've backed off a lot this week so I don't know what to think. The goggles scene wasn't great for him although they turned it into another clip from the Skupkin Medical Emergencies Comedy Reel which I think is a good sign (see also - Fabio in premerge Nicaragua). The Artis confessional served more to make Artis look not great than him. I was kind of neutral on The Insider clip of him explaining how he broke it so I'm not sure what to think. It wasn't a bad scene, but it makes me wonder whether they didn't want to harp on an error he made more than necessary. *shrugs*

WINNER PICKS - MICHAEL >> LISA >>>> RC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MALCOLM >>>> DENISE


"Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-13-12 at 05:51 PM
The recap told us that, of the three tribes, Matsing was on its way to extinction, having only Russell’s clue and the alliance between Malcolm and Denise to show after 6 days.

Tandang’s recap showed some new footage but was mainly about Peter forming a new majority alliance, one that gave Lisa a new life.
Things got better for Pete when his ally, Abi, shared the clue and found the hidden immunity idol.

At Kalabaw, Penner had been the target from day 1…
(we saw Kent asking the tribe if they wanted a veteran winning the game or one of them)
…but when he revealed his idol to Jeff Kent, the former professional baseball player considered aligning with Penner.

We saw Angie and Russell’s struggles at the immunity challenge and how that led to another Matsing loss.
Angie and Russell threw each other under the bus.
Despite Malcolm’s close connection to Angie, he joined Matsing in voting to keep the tribe strong.

Four things to note about the recap:
- Jeff concentrated a lot on the idol, even mentioning Russell’s clue, even if they didn’t play a big role up to now. I suppose they will lead to some sparks soon and the viewers have to be reminded where they are.

- Pete is now the center of attention in Tandang even if he had been ignored in the first two episodes. To suddenly arrive on the scene with such a large role is not a good sign for Pete. We usually follow the journey of Survivor’s conquerors from day 1. If their story starts after day 1, it’s probably because they fail. Take Sash for example, a character that was hidden before the episode 2 TC.

- A veteran will probably not win this season because we keep hearing Kalabaw saying that they don’t want a veteran to win and we can already predict that the jury will be mostly composed of Kalabaw members…maybe even all 6 Kalabaw members are jury bound!

- Finally, the wording of Malcolm’s voting decision is perplexing: He joined Matsing which is a very passive way of describing it. Jeff could have said that Malcolm decided to keep Matsing strong, or Malcolm judged it best to stay with Denise or used any other expression to make Malcolm look more forceful, more decisive, important qualities to impart on an eventual winner. We can take it as an indication that Malcolm isn’t the winner.

Matsing – Day 9

The somber music was a fitting accompaniment to the weather and the tribe’s mood. For a long time, no words were spoken, maybe the longest silent scene ever. Even that ended in failure: Russell telling Malcolm to stop trying to make fire.

Malcolm: “…What could possibly be piled on? I think we put on brave faces for each other. Everyone’s scared…One win is all that it’s going to take to turn the mood around camp. One win and we’ll know anything is possible, that we are not destined for annihilation.”

Denise: “This is not what I envisioned at all…We joke, we have these conversations but then we get that silence and my thoughts go to missing home, how do I stay here?”

Russell talked about making the greatest come-back ever and Denise agreed, saying they didn’t have an option.

Russell: “There is no quit in either one of them.”

Matsing isn’t making any come-backs but is Denise on her way to make that great come-back? She is the one heard agreeing with Russell that they have to pull it off but her own confessional sets her more to be a Journey player. Missing her family is an indication that her comeback will be completed if she makes it to the family visit, not necessarily the win. Game analysis would say it’s practically impossible for Denise to make it that far but the way her character has been edited almost guarantees it.

Tandang – Day 9

With Peter complaining about the Philippines, Lisa had a confessional: “You have nothing to do out here but think of different scenarios and how they might go especially when it’s raining. And if you come on Survivor, (Pete shown) you are usually a Type A person who is usually able to take the world by the nose and makes it happen. I’m just worried that the rain may prove once again that we are not, ultimately, in control.”

Peter: “The weather sucks but I am feeling good. I feel like I am in a very, very, very good position in this game and I plan on creating a lot of chaos out here (RC shown) and any chaos that I create is going to be beneficial to me.”

So Peter, the Type A person described by Lisa, wants to create chaos which, I suppose, is a way to “take the world by the nose”. The editors connected these two confessionals for a reason and we can be certain that Pete’s chaos scenario will not be beneficial for him.

Abi: “I was just staring at the raft were we have been sleeping and I see a little piece of paper sticking out. It’s the clue that RC and I have been safely guarding.” RC had no choice but to read the clue to everyone while Abi told us what she thought happened: “I think she went, got the clue out of where we had buried it, put it in her bag and I think it fell. She has no idea that I found the hidden immunity idol but I don’t feel bad because me finding that clue proves to me that she wasn’t 100% honest with me at all.”

RC: “I have no idea what happened with the clue. I certainly didn’t bring it there but because this popped out, I’m a little weary of the tribe.”

Pete: “RC didn’t do anything. I was the one that put it there. Abi showed me where the clue was so I went and got it…and boom; clue planted. It couldn’t have gone any better, it’s crazy, it’s hilarious…Keeping people on their toes is a big part of my strategy. I don’t want anybody to be able to play their game. I want them to play my game.”

I found it ironic that, while Pete exposed his evil plan to keep people on their toes, they were all shown lying down!! A coincidence most will say but is there ever a coincidence in Survivor editing? If Pete wants to keep people on their toes but instead they stay calmly in the shelter, doesn’t his whole strategy fail? Doesn’t it show that our Type A person ultimatelyu won’t stay in control?

Kalabaw

Jonathan “…When the sun comes out, you find yourself in a tropical paradise…Let’s just get busy, let’s get working.”

Kent: “We have a bunch of kids who aren’t married, who don’t know how to carry a professional conversation but Jonathan can do that. You know, he’s trying.”

Did Kent just eliminate all the young persons from winning the title of Sole Survivor? His confessional put a negative spin on all of them but we can’t be sure if all of them means the 4 young ones in Kalabaw or the 8 left. Did you notice that the mature players, except for Artis, have found important roles to play in this story. An older person is winning this game but it isn’t a Survivor veteran or a Type A person. We are narrowing it down!

The scene shifted to the ocean where Jonathan directed Carter to the biggest clam he had ever seen.

Kent’s confessional continued: “As soon as we had Jonathan on our raft, it didn’t matter if it was Jonathan or Russell or Skupin, I didn’t want a veteran to win this game but I’ve got to adapt. Jonathan’s got the idol now, I want to get further in this game so I am going to have to make some adjustments.”

Kent told Jonathan: “I can control some people.”

Jonathan: “Jeff and I actually like each other. He is a hell of a competitor, a really nice guy and we are prepared to be loyal to each other deep into the game.” Jonathan and Kent shared another handshake and this one looked more genuine. “Having him on my side can make us pretty powerful. It’s exciting to have a real ally. I think I do.”

Jonathan then formed an alliance with Carter.

Carter: “It’s kind of crazy because I decided that Jonathan was no longer a target of mine but somebody that I was going to work with and try to get to the top 5 with them and then target him. I’d say me, Jeff and Jonathan right now have a pretty good alliance and the girls, from what I can tell, are on the chopping block.”

There was however, trouble in the men’s paradise!

Dawson: “At the beginning of the game, there was a 5 person alliance of bran new castaways and there was Jonathan on the outside and we were kind of working to get him out. But now, the guys went out on the ocean and they were out there for a couple hours and what are they talking about? They are talking about us.”

Dana told Dawson and Katie that they had to stick together and gather some more ladies. They didn’t need the men.

Dana: “I think women naturally feel more comfortable around each other. As the game progresses, the sexes start to split a little and the men think they have this thing that they add to the table and the women think they have this social game that they being to the table. Don’t underestimate me because I am a female. It’s the worst thing to do to a woman.”

The scene ended with Katie saying it was going to get crazy.

I think we have now narrowed our criteria to find the winner: It isn’t a Type A person that thinks he is in control. It isn’t a young one nor is it a returning player. It is a woman because they are being underestimated: “I can’t go far with Dawson and Katie” said Carter. If that wasn’t enough, look at the teams during the upcoming challenge where all the women except Denise were told to ride the bench.

So; Denise or Lisa? Thematically, Lisa would fit more because she is the least in control, just playing the cards that she is being dealt.

Matsing – Day 9

Malcolm had a confessional after Russell had been denigrating their former tribe mates: “I think I sized up Russell pretty good when I met him. He’s met my low expectations the entire way through…He lacks self-awareness. It’s apparent…in the way he loses his cool at Tribal Council. He’s still here only because…we need muscle mass.”

Russell immediately had a confessional where he said he was a little suspicious which, in itself, proved Malcolm’s analysis. Suspicious should have ended day 1 because he should know by now! His last words even showed that he still didn’t know before the last vote was read Wow!

We then saw Russell looking for the idol. Of course that scene was meant to put some doubt in the outcome of the episode but really, it served to connect us even more to Denise and Malcolm. The editors have made it clear that we shouldn’t root for Russell depite his status as a returning player so showing him looking for the idol can only serve to scare the audience by making us think that one of Denise or Malcolm goes if he finds it. That bodes well for their stories.


Right under your nose!
No one can say the editors don’t have a sense of humor!

Denise caught him snooping under the shelter and she told us she found it shady. She told Malcolm about it.

Malcolm: “Denise had this scared look in her eyes and she thinks Russell has an idol.” The two of them went through Russell’s belongings. “I have no shame: You have an idol, I want to know about it.”

The negative action of going through someone’s bags was mostly placed on Malcolm, not Denise.

Tandang

The scene was accompanied by animal imagery showing a spider catching its prey. Who is the spider, who is the prey?

Skupin was shown talking about the rice with Abi and RC.

Peter: “There used to be rift between RC and Abi and now it’s concrete. All because of a little piece of paper. I would love to send RC home right now. I don’t trust RC as far as I can throw her. She’s dangerous but she has one big problem: I’m here.”

RC wanted to talk things over with Abi who simply didn’t want to listen.

RC: “Abi is irrational. She is not a retional player. You don’t know what she’s thinking. I’m worried about my place in the tribe because she clearly didn’t want to talk to me about the hidden immunity clue. I don’t know if she planted it, if she got angry at me and planted it. I have no idea. I thought I had it locked down. I thought I had Abi as my number 2, I thought I had Pete. I think I am in danger if there is an immunity challenge and we lose.”

RC talked to Lisa about her problem, saying she wanted to apologize but didn’t know what she did wrong.

Lisa: “I think that the straw that broke the camel’s back was when RC let the clue come out of her bag and Abi, the little Brazillian spice, just broke open. So, more of my energy is going to go to blowing some oxygen on some fire over here and let them flame out so I don’t have to be the one that takes the heat.”

So, the theme of playing the hand that you are dealt keeps working nicely for Lisa. A new hand, a new strategy and not one that requires any control. That is important to note. Lisa is the spider and she’ll probably get both Abi and RC!

The Challenge

The main thing to note was Dawson’s diappointment when the men decided she’d sit out the challenge along with all the other women and then Russell’s dejection when he realized his team would be going up against teams of 3 men.

*Rant* With the absence of the alternating sit out rule then the challenges should involve the whole tribes. 6 pots, 6 players? Why not have them carry one pot at a time and have Matsing do it twice? Survivor has stupid rules sometimes. *End Rant*

Despite having a lead for a while and starting the last stage before Kalabaw, Matsing lost…again.
Artis was the MVP of the challenge.
Russell lost it and started talking about his perfection which we won’t get into.

Matsing

Malcolm: “I was ready to cry after that challenge.” In the ocean, he told Russell to vote Denise. “I’ve been aligned with Denise since day 1 but I am forced to make decisions on day 9 that I didn’t consider having to make until day 20 or so.”

In the shelter, he told Denise that Russell thought they were voting against her.

Denise: “I have my alliance with Malcolm…but if Russell has the immunity idol; it’s not good…We are trying to make Russell think he is the swing. We are trying to make him feel comfortable so if he does the immunity idol, he doesn’t play it.”

Denise made him feel so comfortable that he told her about a personal story from his childhood.

That slice of real life, so prevalent in the early seasons, is usually forgotten by the editors nowadays in favor of strategy talks so we have to assume that it was strategy that we were being shown: Denise at work, getting people to reveal their innermost secrets. If she is this good after the merge then watch out!

Malcolm: “Tonight, it can go either way and I like to think that I am sitting in the controlling seat.”

Russell’s vote would prove that Malcolm wasn’t in control, connecting this scene with Lisa’s early confessional. The type A persons may think they are in control but they really aren’t

Denise. “Yes, I have faith in human beings. I have to. If I get bamboozled tonight, it’s not going to shake my faith that these are two good guys. It will tell me that I screwed up and they played the game better than me.”

One of the best out-of-my-control, self-aware, confessionals ever. TC’s result proves that they didn’t play better than Denise.

Tribal Council

Malcolm agreed with Jeff that it had been crazy.
Denise pointed to all three bags, saying they were full.
Russell explained his mind-set regarding the challenge.
Malcolm told Jeff that he was the one that didn’t get the job done. “When you let people down it stings doubly.”
Denise said she should stay because she is strong and can help make alliances down the line.
Malcolm repeated that he could help them win a challenge.
Russell said that it was the reason to get rid of Malcolm.
Asked why they should get rid of Denise, Malcolm said “she is a step above us all socially.”
Russell added: “She gets in front of the jury, they will say: “You suck, you suck, she wins!”


This exchange makes it very tempting to say that Denise will indeed win despite any analysis of her present position in the game. If she makes the F3, she wins.

The Story

The first 4 episodes have left us with these themes:
E1: Make sure that you Go With the Game.
E2: Players Crash and Burn.
E3: You Have to Play the Hand that is Dealt
E4: We Are Not In Control.

Put together, we are inclined to say that this season’s winner will not be making big moves because that would be taking the deck in your own hands instead of playing the hand that is dealt. Big move means you are a step ahead therefore moving faster than the game, so this season it would mean playing too hard too fast. And this episode told us that, despite being used to taking charge, the type A players are not in control. So, the winner will most likely be a follower.

This episode also strongly suggested that a veteran will not win, that the younger players don’t have what it takes and that you shouldn’t underestimate a woman. Therefore, the story is pointing towards the winner being either Lisa or Denise.

Of course, we have to keep in mind that Kent could be proven wrong, that they will vote for a veteran to win in the end or the young ones will show that they are sufficiently mature to win. Or maybe Dana will be proven wrong and the men will dominate. That means we still have to look at

The Characters

The Young Ones:

According to Kent, they are too immature so that should eliminate them. Considering how Katie, Dawson, Carter have been edited, it’s hard to argue against that.

Dawson: Her confessional makes us think she can stay a while and it will be interesting to see if she can align with other women but her role is too peripheral to consider that she will emerge as the star of the season.

Carter: He told us that you can’t go far in the game by aligning with Dawson and Katie so he adds to the theme presented by Kent. Carter’s intervention only served to advance Jonathan’s story.

Dana: She has more character than the other young members of Kalabaw. She introduced the theme of not underestimating women but will she be the one profitting from it? Dana has been Kalabaw’s narrator rather than an important player.

Peter: As noted above, Peter has become the main player in Tandang, the schemer, the villain who will create chaos for his own benefit. Unfortunately for him, he is the prototypical Type A person that should fail this season because of the Themes we have identified. He wants people to be on their toes but they are shown lying in the shelter. He wants RC and Mike gone but can’t get around to executing his plan. The game is moving too slowly for Peter; his need for urgency will hurt him. We will see that, despite his pretention, he won’t be in control. The juxtaposition of his confessional about liking his position in the game came right after Lisa’s confessional about Type A persons to set the table for his demise.

Abi: The Brazilian time-bomb is being used by her closest ally; Peter pushes the buttons and Abi explodes. There is no doubt that Abi herself is a type A person and she wants to be in control. Her actions make for interesting dynamics in Tandang but she isn’t shown as a wise player. For example, the way her confessional was cut lets the viewer wonder why bringing the clue into the shelter would prove that RC had betrayed her. Abi would have looked more rational if her confessional had continued with something like: “I’m sure she was showing it to Mike.” That must have been what irritated her so much so she must have said something along those lines. But Abi is presented as an irrational player so she isn’t given an opportunity to state her case and she can’t be the winner.

Malcolm: His story has enough substance to consider he will survive annihilation but can he win? He wants to be in control which goes against the grain of the story and he was presented as being somewhat indecisive during the previous elimination. Malcolm will be able to use his challenge skills to survive a while but not make it to the end.

RC: Of all the younger players, RC still has the best story to carry her to the end. She is presented as a power player (Peter: “She’s dangerous”) but she isn’t forceful enough to carry it out. She thought she had it locked down. thought she was in control, but she isn’t. Showing RC’s inability to talk to Abi doesn’t bode well for her chances to convince people when it really comes down to tough decisions.

The Type A Older Players

Kent: He has a quiet way about him that his refreshing but make no mistake: Kent wants to be in charge so we can expect that he will crash and burn at some point. Already, the women of his tribe aren’t in his corner so we can see that he won’t get his way. For that type of player, there are no alternatives even if he says he can adapt.

Jonathan: Once more, he sees a light, a direction that could carry him far into the game so there is no denying that Jonathan is a good player but his story seems limited to his idol and his relationship with Jeff Kent. Their alliance should carry both far into the game but nothing tells us that it will be to the end.

Mike: No one was a bigger Type A person than Skupin in the Outback. The guy thanked God for making him the leader of Kucha right in front of everyone else! (It was interesting that, during Russell’s talk with God, Mike was shown disapproving as if he had learned not to get a deity involved in the game.) So, it’s extremely interesting that, despite the connections to his Outback character through his injuries, he isn’t presented as someone looking to control the game. True to his word, his theme, he is moving at the proper pace for the game but his relative absence from the story is troubling. If Kent’s words are being used ironically, if a veteran does win, then Mike has to be our top contender over Jonathan. But, if we have read the themes correctly a veteran can’t win, a woman will. I don’t think Mike’s edit will flame out (!) but it feels too cold to earn him the victory. The editors need to fire up his story.
(I could go on with the fire analogies but I’ll stop here)

As mentioned above, that leaves:


Denise
: Seeing her win would make for a wonderful underdog story. Russell has presented it already as the biggest come-back in Survivor history and both Malcolm and Russell have told us the jury would reward her. Unfortunately, there are those moments of silence when she wonders what she is doing there, away from her family. That usually tells us a player’s story ends at the family visit. The check Russell mentioned could very well be for Fan Favorite. Can Denise get both? I say she is a step behind our top contender…

Lisa: Most of the themes of the season come from Tandang and they all apply perfectly to Lisa. She hasn’t moved faster than the game, she’s still playing the hands that are being dealt, she isn’t in control, just blowing a little on the fire. She shouldn’t be underestimated simply because she is a woman. She is mature enough to know how to talk to others and if the jury (Kalabaw) doesn’t want a veteran to win then she would get their votes. Does Lisa win? I’d say it’s a good guess.



"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by blueeyed on 10-13-12 at 09:01 PM
I heard Denise differently when she talked about about her thoughts about home. I went back and rewatched. She said something like my thoughts don't go to home. My thoughts are on how do I stay here. She is telling us her head is firmly in the game. I think it helps strengthens her case. Right now, I'd put Denise over Lisa as sole survivor. (As unlikely as that seems.)

"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-13-12 at 09:21 PM
Thanks, I'll listen once more. However, she already mentioned her family in a TC when she told Jeff was she was giving up. So, one way or another, she has a connection to the family visit and that also seems unlikely considering her present situation.

"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by parathor on 10-15-12 at 04:07 PM
After the episode, I was waiting for your editing thoughts... I said to myself "Denise wins! Michel will say so!" ... but no, you're guessing Lisa. So now I have doubts on that.

Lisa: “So, more of my energy is going to go to blowing some oxygen on some fire over here and let them flame out so I don’t have to be the one that takes the heat.”

Since fire represents life, is Lisa talking about keeping her flame alive, or does she not want the "heat" from the "flames?"

I'm tired of going against your well-constructed thoughts, Michel (luckily there's no Chelsea this season to distract me), so I'm firmly onboard the Lisa-wins bandwagon.

Last question - if Jeff Kent's "secret identity" is revealed, does that make it more or less likely that Lisa's "secret identity" is revealed? It almost feels like they're tied together.


"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-15-12 at 06:20 PM
I haven't said yet that Lisa wins! She's my main contender though. If I am heading towards the precispice then maybe we'll take the dive together!

PS, still haven't had time to listen to Denise's confessional again. Maybe tomorrow.


"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by glennyfromtheblock on 10-15-12 at 09:55 PM
See, Lisa would be my main contender except I still can't get past her E1 edit of being presented as totally helpless and playing terribly. I know Survivor loves a good comeback edit, but I just felt it was a little too extreme. And because E1 attributed all the credit for her survival to Skupkin. *shrugs* I don't know what to make of it anymore as, if I ignored episode one, she'd easily be my winner pick. My only other concern for her is the Insider footage this week was fantastic again - VERY shrewd and well articulated. Why would they leave it out if she won?

"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by 3rd Place Winner on 10-16-12 at 02:22 PM
Hi all. Long time listener, first time caller. Seriously, as a Survivor fanatic who has never missed a single episode from day one, I love reading this thread and have for years. Great work, all.

I just had a very small point in response to glenny and anyone else who asks, "If Lisa is the winner, then why would all her fantastically insightful clips be kept off the show and dumped onto the Insider?" I have not watched the Insider videos in a while, nor am I saying I have a strong opinion on whether or not Lisa is the winner, but I did have this thought:

Isn't that exactly what people on this thread were saying a year ago about Sophie? I seem to recall reading that Sophie had a number of confessionals on the Insider that revealed her to have the most intelligent, insightful, and aware outlook on the game and the players. Yet this remained hidden, possibly because she wasn't a dynamic TV presence, or more likely because the spotlight was almost completely on the two returnees, Coach and Ozzy. To some people, that raised doubts about her chances to win, which seemed to make sense at the time, but now we all know that she did end up taking the crown.

So based on that (and I write this not having watched Sophie or Lisa on Insider), it would seem that it's no longer safe to assume that a player won't win just because her brilliant insights are relegated to the web.

Not clear to me yet whether Lisa is a winner, a "journey" player, or just a celebrity stealing focus (or all three), but for some reason her prominence is notable.

Great season so far! And thank you to everyone who takes the time to share their insights in this thread. (Veruca, please come back!)


"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by glennyfromtheblock on 10-16-12 at 07:45 PM
HA! Yeah, that was me who made the same arguement against Sophie in this thread this time last year, so clearly I haven't learned my lesson. Although Sophie and Lisa are almost inverse edit-wise as Sophie started out strong then faded, whereas Lisa had (what I thought was) an awful E1 Winner Edit and has blown up since. To be honest, it's more that first episode that really bugs me than anything else. But at the same time, I don't have a stronger case to make for anyone else either as both RC and Skupkin are detiorating/fading badly and I think Denise and Malcolm are missing something.. *shrugs*

The Insider is fantastic to watch though for that reason as it shows what is happen but deemed not relevant to the story/edit. Heroes vs Villains is a great example where, for example, the episode was all about Sandra's marvellous plan to boot Coach where the Insider footage showed (in a variety of scenes) that it was completely Parvati's plan and that she single-handedly orchestrated that boot on several different levels. Things like that are what interest me about it (besides the fact that, in general, I'm an uber dork..)


"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 10-16-12 at 06:24 PM
I haven't seen Lisa blow on the flame, just identify that should be her strategy. No one should blow on Abi's flame ... it might explode in their face. Lisa's edit seems too weak, 1st episode she acknowledged she might not be able to play the mental game because of the lying or manipulation that she would be unwilling to do. 2nd episode, she acknowledges she might not have the physical strength or willingness to endure the physical aspects. Last week, her actions continued to be under the radar & go with the flow, don't annoy anyone ... or blow on any flames. Lisa might be a sidekick for Denise after the merge, both older & more mature, which could be a threesome with Mike.

Denise, as outsider after the shuffle, no immediate need to boot, & Kalabaw men can go after one of women, using Denise as 4th. I can see Jeff appreciating another "mature" person to talk with, Penner too. We see & hear Denise's strengths, the other tribes will be unaware until too late. I also got the impression she was OK being away from family, but thought she expressed concern for her clients while she was away. I don't Denise as that much of an underdog with 3 tribes, woulda been more so if only 2 tribes. She may not be the winner, but she seems more likely as a winner to me than Lisa.


"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by dabo on 10-17-12 at 01:15 PM
I haven't seen Lisa blow on the flame

Agree, but from her position she is empowering Pete, that's something. And keeping quiet while others implode is a tactical decision, letting the flames be blown on even if she isn't the one doing it, she's doing nothing to put it out either. If she realizes it, she is in a position to make some moves, as by sharing information with Artis or Michael or RC. (Artis, though, is a nonfactor in the edit so far.)

I think we're supposed to empathize with Lisa, per the edit, though we don't have to like her. If she has a comeback story the like can come in time.

Per the edit we are supposed to like and empathize with Denise, she took all this time away from her husband and daughter, her practice and clients, to play Survivor! Comeback story for her maybe in the works. We should know after tonight, watch for signs.


"RE: Episode 4 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 10-17-12 at 02:00 PM
I can see Lisa's role building, staying until late in the game, but not winning. Maybe like Holly Hoffman In Nicaragua, who was ready to quit early on, but her strength grew as the game went on.

I suppose since I like Denise, see her smarts & strength, I don't see her as an underdog, but that is an easy edit for CBS to portray. I'm sure we'll hear of come from behind or underdog if she makes late game.


"Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by michel on 10-20-12 at 02:31 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-12 AT 06:42 PM (EST)

Previously on Survivor…Matsing perfected the art of failure…
…and were the only tribe not to have found the hidden immunity idol.

For Tandang and kalabaw, the winning streaks couldn’t hide the cracks underneath the surface.
Penner used his idol to form a secret alliance of men while the women joined forces against the men.
<Dana is heard warning not to underestimate the women.>

On Tandang, Pete and Abi found the idol. They started a new majority alliance with Lisa and Artis, targeting Skupin and RC.

At the immunity challenge…Russell lost it.
Malcolm and Denise voted out the first returning player.

Not much to say about a recap when it’s a repetition of the previous ones. Only comment I’ll make is regarding Dana’s warning: Seeing her quit the game makes us wonder if underestimating the women is still the “worse thing” we could do? In other words: Should we still take her comment as a hint that a woman will win or did she show us that women can’t do it this year? It could go either way so let’s reserve judgment on that.

I am Going to Fight

Matsing – Night 10

Malcolm: “We are down to 2 members on day 10. I thought this would happen like on day 39. This early on, we don’t know what will be thrown at us, what to expect.”

Just then, Denise is shown predicting: “You to one tribe, me to the other.”
The editors want us to know that Denise is on the ball, that she knows what to expect. It’s also a good point that we revisited Matsing every time at the very start of each episode. They were never ignored which happens sometimes to unimportant tribes. It’s seems to indicate that one member of Matsing at least could be in this position again on day 39! And it isn’t Malcolm.

Matsing – Day11

Malcolm: “We are about as down and out as we can be at this point…It would be a good time for a tribe mix-up, a swap or just to be absorbed…This may be my last chance to look for the idol today.”

Denise: “We don’t know what is going to happen now that we are down to two.”

They started looking for the idol.

Malcolm: “It shouldn’t be so complicated. I’ll burn to whole damn thing down until I find it.”

As viewers, we’ve often said that it should be MORE complicated to find the idol but I digress…

Malcolm after finding the idol: “This is huge. We have nothing except each other…This gives me a huge amount of power.”

Denise: “We just found the hidden immunity idol. It’s frustrating: If we are absorbed on the same tribe, great! We can figure out a way to use it to our advantage. If we are split; Malcolm’s got the idol.”

Reward Challenge

Skupin’s reaction was the only one shown when Jeff said that Russell had been voted out. He looked surprised and disappointed.

Jeff asked for Lisa’s reaction and she diplomatically said that she saw two people who had prevailed.
After dropping their buffs, Malcolm picked a Tandang buff and Denise went to Kalabaw.
Jeff said: “It’s like we are starting over in a sense.”
I wish he would have added: “We apologize to our viewers for having wasted 4 weeks of your time” but I guess the sponsors wouldn’t have appreciated.

The only interesting moment about the challenge was seeing Skupin outwitting the rules makers: He threw his idol way up in the air and could simply rush his opponent, making his opponent’s idol reach the ground first. Too bad Kalabaw didn’t use the same strategy because we would have had two people looking at each other and waiting for one to shoot his idol skyward and then shooting his higher! That would have been hilarious.

As for the rounds:
Jeff beat Malcolm
Artis had no problem reaching over Dana
Katie beat Lisa
Skupin used his trick to beat Penner.
Denise beat RC.
Pete was more cagey than Carter.
Abi got the better of Dawson even if her hair was being pulled. (“Fight like a man, not like a b*tch” was Abi’s reaction.)
Malcolm used Skupin’s trick to repay Jeff.

Tandang won reward.

Denise told Jeff that she liked her new family and its vibe.

Jonathan had a confessional before the break: “I like Denise but I sure wish we had Malcolm on our team because we could have had muffins and cookies. Now, they have an advantage over us, physically.”

I am fairly certain that Jonathan’s thoughts were echoed by most of Kalabaw but to put his confessional immediately after Denise had mentioned the vibe of the new family is not a good sign for him. He is underestimating the value of Denise and he will probably pay for it.

Tandang – Day 11

Malcolm: “You don’t realize how much in the dumps you are until you get a win and things start going your way…I feel like I got my swag back. All I have to look for is a crack so I get wedged in. It’s the easiest thing to say: Let’s get rid of the odd man out.”

I think it’s disastrous for Malcolm’s story that he didn’t have a thought for Denise. He must have told his interviewer that he felt bad for her but we weren’t privvy to that part of his confessional. Malcolm is made to appear like a man who is happy with this little victory, nothing else.

Lisa: “Malcolm’s brought wonderful energy to our tribe. He’s a great guy who is strong physically. That is huge for us in the challenges. He also has a great attitude. He’s good looking, he’s smart, he’s easy-going so he hasn’t brought any type of negative energy in the tribe which is really great.”

RC shared her thoughts and she certainly didn’t see it the same way as Lisa: “I think I would have fared better if we had Denise over Malcolm. At first, I thought I had a fighting chance, maybe I could get him on my side but the minute I saw him talking to Peter, I knew it was over. To have this new person join and be accepted right away by the clique, it does bring me back to childhood because I was bullied in school. In Survivor, you are in this place where you don’t know who to turn to. You don’t have people you can go to and talk to, say this is what I am feeling so what should I be doing? But, I didn’t starve, have no fire and fight in those challenges to let them walk all over me. I am going to fight and if we have to go to Tribal Council, time has to be on my side at this point. I need time and hopefully time to flirt with Malcolm.”

RC has just given us another great confessional with stunning visuals. It’s her second great confessional since the start of the season so the question becomes: Is she doomed, “on the outs, fighting the waves alone” like Squidproquo suggested in the ECST or will she fight and conquer the tribe just like she conquered those waves? This picture...

..., almost a victory pose, tells me she will be successful in overcoming the clique especially since the theme of being bullied as a child has now been introduced a second time. First, it was Russell’s story but he set the stage for RC’s own story of being alone against a clique. She must win that fight, outlast her bullies, Peter and Abi because, contrary to Russell, we are connected to her ordeal.

Peter: :”When I saw Malcolm unwrap that yellow buff, I was ecstatic. I was always weary of getting rid of Mike without having a strong guy, probably a stronger guy and he’s probably not as stupid.”

We then saw Peter and Malcolm talk about thier plans, Peter telling the ex-Matsing about having the idol.

Malcolm: “Information is power so may as well get all of it while I can. Pete immediately said: “I have the idol.” No one knows that I have one and if Pete is already telling me that he has one, he may use that to save me or we can use that jointly…Everyone wants to get to know me…I’m enjoying it right now.”

Kalabaw

Denise: “Just to be in a new family, a new tribe, is great. I’m trying to blend into my new family, trying to find out what my role is going to be. Whatever I can do to prove that I have value, even if it’s sticking around for just one more tribal council. Every step is an opportunity to regroup and turn things around.”

Katie: “My alliance consists of Dana, Dawson and myself against the guys. We need Denise. That was the one reason why I was happy that we got a female because we have a better chance of getting Denise on our side than we would getting Malcolm. It is my job to get Denise underneath my arm. If we can convince her that it’s us girls, hopefully she won’t listen to the guys.”

That worked out about as well for Katie as the upcoming challenge!

Dana’s Exit

Jonathan: “It’s freezing and I’m a big fat guy. It doesn’t affect me so much but Dana’s sick…She may be shutting down… She needs medical attention.”

Dawson’s confessional only showed her as Jeff’s groupie.

Dana left to comforting words by Penner and a confessional by Katie: “Dana leaving screws up everything. I am at a loss for words because this could not have come at a worse time. I love the girl, it sucks what happened but she was my best ally, she got taken away by the medics and I’m like: “What am I going to do to Survive?”

The timing for Katie’s first confessionals tells us all we need to know. Soon, Jeff’s comments during the challenge would take care of the members of the audience that hadn’t given up on Katie yet. If Denise and RC’s episode were about fighting back then Katie’s question tells us she has no idea how to fight back.

The Challenge

Note that both Skupin and Lisa appeared to be feeling bad for Dana when Jeff broke the new that they were one player up. That is great for their character development. We see them as being compassionate.

I must say once more that the sit-out rule didn’t need to be applied to this challenge. Why not force Abi to run the course?
A big insect was seen going after both Peter and RC.
Abi’s decision to sit out gave Probst a great opportunity to mock her. He asked how many times she had participated in challenges and was astonished to hear it was only two. Change your rules, dummy or else tribes will benefit from them!

The only comments we needed to hear were: “Carter and Skupin…impressive beginning…Katie, really slowing down on a very easy portion of this challenge. Huge set back for Kalabaw…Katie, once again, last one over. Katie struggling…Kalabaw, still suffering from the beginning with Katie. Tandang with still a big lead in this challenge and it goes back to the first round where Katie couldn’t get over the mound…Everybody in on this challenge except for Abi who is sitting yet again”

Tandang won by about 1 second.

Jeff must think the audience is suffering from short term memory loss or attention deficit. Why repeat 5 times that Katie was awful? Or that Abi always rides the bench? Simply because repetition does work; just look at everyone who liked Russell after a while! Here, everyone must think that Katie and Abi are good for nothing, totally undeserving to be on the show. No one remembers that they each did well in the previous challenge and that they were always on the winning side before. Editors need scapegoats but does it have to be so fastidious?

Jonathan was the post-game analyst: “If Katie had been 3 seconds faster and if Dawson had been a little more helpful with the puzzle, I think we would have won. Now, we are going to be down two. That gap, at this stage of the game, may just be insurmountable.”

Kalabaw – Day 13

Katie: “I totally sucked in that challenge. It’s pretty embarrassing to be the one that totally screwed up everyone and it’s like every time they make a moan or a groan, it’s because of me. I screwed up, what can I say? Crappy performance so if I was them, I would say “see you later Katie.””

See Jeff, she can admit it. You didn’t need to hammer it home.

Dawson: “Katie sucked in the challenge today…But Denise isn’t part of our original tribe. She’s only been here two days.”

Denise was working on improving her odds as we saw her talking to Jeff while we heard this confessional: “I’m part of the losing tribe again. It’s heartbreaking. I’m worried. I haven’t had time to bond with these guys. I don’t know if they are going to go with loyalty or with logic.”

Jeff explained the tribal split and asked Denise to join the guys.

Jeff: “It’s going to come down to who has the most value in the challenges for us and Denise is stronger than Dawson and Katie…I think she’s got pretty good smarts on her. ”

Jonathan: “There are really three options at this point: Denise, Katie or Dawson. I can’t see getting rid of Denise now; she’s a hell of a competitor. She’s was in it to win it today so no way we can point to her and say she cost us the challenge. So, it’s Katie or Dawson.” The guys talked about Dawson and Katie; Carter felt Katie had checked out while Jeff pointed out Dawson’s failure at the puzzle. Jonathan went on: “Katie did poorly today…But, before today; Dawson has been the weakest member of the tribe. It’s a big choice.”

Dawson made the choice easier when she started kidding around about baseball. She told us she enjoyed getting into Kent’s mind. What good that did her!

Jeff: “I am walking on egg shells right now…If they put 2 and 2 together, I am in trouble.”

Tribal Council

Dawson told Jeff that Dana’s departure hit them hard.
Penner told Jeff they just had bad luck. He added that they would have won with a healthy Dana.
Katie agreed with Jeff that she hurt her tribe. She hoped her performance in other challenge would help her stay.
Penner said it would be easy to vote out the person that cost them the challenge.
Dawson was asked about Denise. She said they needed her, that they loved coming to see Jeff but that it sucked to vote someone out. She said she should stay because she entertains the tribe.
Kent was only concerned about weak links.

After getting an awkward hug from Dawson, Jeff told Kalabaw that they were down 2 in a game all about numbers.

The Story

I always marvel at the way the editors are able to tell the same story in different ways. Take Kim from One World: Some felt that she was giving too many “this is easy” type of confessionals to be the winner. She’d have to fall for it to make sense, they said. We always said no because those confessionals fit the themes of the One World season. Transpose this to the Philippines and ask who is having it too easy: The ecstatic Peter of course! So why do we say that Peter has absolutely no chance of winning? Of course, some will point to his terrible first episode but even Boston Rob’s premiere in RI was lackluster. He only really had substance during his voting confessional BUT it set the main Theme of RI: The newbies gave too much information away. Others will say Peter won’t win because of the fly bothering him during the challenge!

No, Peter won’t win because his story goes against the grain of the season’s theme. Like Kim during One World, he’s still in control, he got the Matsing member he wanted, they formed a bond, they want to eliminate Pete’s targets and they continue to dominate the challenges. But this season is about fighting back, not having control but playing the hand that you are dealt.

What about Kalabaw you ask? They were never the important tribe and Probst final words didn’t have any positivity about them. I'm sure he added something about finding a way to turn things around but we only heard the fatalistic: You are down by two in a game all about numbers.” They have no recourse and Jonathan already told us that the gap is insurmountable. Coming from a guy who witnessed Aitu’s comeback firsthand, that comment is doubly interesting.

The Characters

Some don’t have control but they have no fight either:

Katie: Poor Miss Delaware! I’m not just talking about the bashing served by Probst during the challenge and the Council but about the placement of her first confessional: “My alliance consists of Dana, Dawson and myself against the guys. We need Denise. That was the one reason why I was happy that we got a female”. This meant that, finally, Katie felt in control! The Game’s “perfect storm” knocked her out of control quicker than we’ve ever seen before! Like she admitted to Dawson, the editors wanted us to say that she sucks at this game.

Carter: We could be positive and say that he is going with the flow unfortunately, he is the least interesting character of the least important tribe. The flow, in his case, will be carrying him to an unimpressive fall.

Artis: The same could practically be said of Artis even if he is in the right tribe. There’s really nothing to say about Artis at this stage so his comment during the previews could signify the beginning of the end for him.

Mike: It’s really puzzling that Skupin, after episode 1, has barely received more airtime than the first three mentioned. So unexplainable that one cannot help but think about the dog that didn’t bark.

But here, we analyze the story and there isn’t much to tell about Skupin except that he is still being shown. His reaction was shown at the start of both challenges and we saw that he had empathy after hearing the news from the other tribe. In this game, seeing a strong guy like Russell being voted out or seeing the other side lose a member could have been reason to rejoice but it was important to show Mike’s (and Lisa) reactions. So, despite having all his interviews being ignored, Mike’s presence is still manipulated to make him appear sympathetic. It’s not bad that he is once more Peter’s main target but it would be nice to see him fighting back. Let’s wait to see if he does have some fight in him before we relegate him to the Loser Lodge.

Some are in Control

Jonathan: He had just gained some control in the last episode when he formed an alliance with Kent and Carter but he knows the game and he sses it slipping: “That gap, at this stage of the game, may just be insurmountable

Kent: Even if he said he was walking on egg shells, we know that Kent is controlling Kalabaw and he got rid of the bothersome kitten. Unfortunately for him, that meant making a deal with someone that has a much stronger connection to the other side and takes each step as a way to regroup.

Malcolm: If we follow the parallel between Kim and Peter then that would make Malcolm this season’s Jay. Like Jay, both sides wanted to have Malcolm. Malcolm thought he had some control in Matsing even if didn’t. Finding the idol, he declares: “This gives me a huge amount of power”. His talk with Peter and the news about Tandang’s idol also gives him a sense that he is in control. Note that Malcolm didn’t have to fight to get in such a good position. As soon as he talked to Pete, he was accepted in the clique.

Abi: In an obstacle race for immunity, of course Abi will sit if the stupid rules permit it so instead of being shocked, Jeff could have underlined the smart strategy!! Of course he wouldn’t do that, not when he can deliver a shot to someone that the audience isn't supposed to like. Even when she won a point during the IC, the editors showed her as a complainer even if Dawson did pull her hair. Abi will certainly get the boot, most probably after doing something with the idol that will be shown as being dumb. That’s really her only end game story.

Peter: I think I’ve already said why I think Peter doesn’t stand a chance: He is in control and he is ecstatic about it. He’ll probably pay for telling Malcolm about the idol.


Some are Fighting back

RC: She has a marvelous story with some of the best confessionals ever given. Hearing her talking about being bullied as a child (especially considering recent events in the news) after Russell had introduced that as a way to fight back must mean something. How often have we heard Survivors talk about such personal childhood events? Not very often so to have two talk about the same thing in two consecutive episodes can’t be a coincidence. It was put in there because it helps construct the story.

Recalling what Russell said, we can see how much fear RC must be feeling towards Peter’s clique. But Russell told us that fighting back made him feel empowered. He said it made him the man he is today, one that thought should never fail. Maybe that’s what will happen with RC. I expect that she will overcome the clique, outlasting Peter and Abi but I’m not sure she will carry that all the way to the win. There are other great stories developping…

Denise: Her confessional about surviving just one more Tribal Council reminded us of Mike’s advice to go with the flow of the game. It was also reminescent of Parvati’s advice to play the game in stages. Denise is smart and we reminded of that when she predicted the twist and she is safe inside Kalabaw’s alliance for one more round. Then, a merge could reunite her with Malcolm. How will she regroup then? If she simply joins Malcolm in Peter’s clique then her story could fall flat but what if she finds another family instead?

Lisa: Her premiere was all about not fitting in Tandang’s clique and look at her progress now! As soon as a new card was dealt to Tandang, it was Lisa to tell us about it and how it affected the tribe. Maybe too narrational for some but a sign that she has fit in. Is she peaking too early? If she is then that would mean she doesn’t have to fight which would disconnect her from the Themes of the seasons. However, her position is clearly not in the core alliance: She is a vote that enables Peter to have the majority but it’s obvious she’d be sitting 4th or 5th in that alliance. So, playing the hand she has been dealt up to now has made her progress in the game but she still has to blow on the fire to make things happen. How will things shake up from there and what cards will that give her? That seems to be the key to the season.


"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by b1whois on 10-22-12 at 06:25 PM
thanks for the great analysis michel! i really like your thoery on the theme of the season. i would comment more but i have been spoiled and dont want to risk it. thanks for your analysis again michel, i look for it every week and read it first when i find it. ciao!

"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by jobgirl on 10-22-12 at 08:05 PM
I just want to say thanks for keeping this thread going. I enjoy it as much as I enjoy watching the show. I've been watching since Season 2 and have been reading your posts for the last several seasons. It always amazes me how you all see these themes and analyze the confessionals. It really adds to the pleasure of watching the show. So, don't be discouraged that there aren't a lot of posters...I'm sure you have many other fans like myself who read all that you write with admiration

"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by AaronLittleton on 10-23-12 at 05:15 AM
Yes, I share the sentiments, thanks Michel for keeping up with this great thread and sharing your editing thoughts each week!
While I'm not spoiled, I decided not to post due to it being another season with returning players. Still, I'm watching the season and enjoying the editing thread And surprising enjoying the season more than I thought I would!

Despite it being a season with 3 returnees and 2 celebrities, editing is almost treating everyone as equals - meaning we're getting some development around the new players, and the 3+2 aren't hogging up all the focus. Perhaps this is a conscious effort by the editors, or they lucked out as the returnees/celebs are simply proving to be part of the main events at camp to create storylines. I'm rather enjoying both Jeff and Lisa as players in the game, and it seems that they are being shown for their gameplay rather than just for star factor.

I always like the take that each season has a theme, and I guess it only fitting that with returnees taken out of the game for medical reasons, that one of the themes be fighting back. As has been noted here, we can see emphasis from this theme along with strategy talk in being flexible and working with what you're given (As we heard in key confessionals from Lisa, Michael, and Denise)

As we are now 1/3 of the way into the game (with 1/3 of the castaways gone) it's noticeable why we saw more story development with Tandang than Kalabaw during the first four episodes when focus was on the decimation of Masting. And as noted in this thread, there was still continued focus on Masting when coming back from TC, making things look really nice for Denise & Malcolm. Editing could've easily used some of that time for showcasing the other tribes even more, but it didn't. And this continued further when focus was still on Malcolm and Denise when they arrived in their new tribes. They have been set up so nicely as a major part of this season's story. Does this pair hold the winner? Well, from an editing standpoint the two look to go far and at the very least will play together again on the same tribe, as their story as an alliance is not over.

The other big development that stood out to me was the rift between RC and Abi. This was carefully crafted within the first four episodes. So much so that I believe the first argument that we saw with Abi and RC on the beach in Episode 2 was out of sequence, as it wasn't until later in the game when the idol was found and Peter was part of the rift. Interesting to have all this manipulation around these 3 (and Lisa as well, since Peter then connected with her). This almost seemed like it could have been a minor storyline that takes up some of the airtime premerge (like the Brandon and Mikayla 'Jezebel' storyline) but no, this is all foreshadowing to set up how the divides will fall when everyone is merged. Which I believe is going to make for some great chaos in the newly merged tribe (when/if that happens) Till then, here's my thoughts on the individual players longevity:

Katie: Episode 5 was her best episode to date, riddled with challenge failure, blatant negative comments from Jeff, and the loss of her 2 alliance mates. We have seen/heard nothing from Katie that she could possibly overcome these circumstances. She is most likely the next to go from Kalabaw (and I think she is set up more than anyone as the next to go from the game)

Artis: Out of everyone on Tandang his standing appears to be the worst for me. With limited scenes and confessionals, we aren't meant to root for him or to even gain a sense of who he is in this game. The fact that he has been mentioned more than once as part of the dominant alliance on Tandang, yet we've seen so little of him and so much less than the others is very telling - as this alliance still looks like it has legs before it will fully unfold. Why weren't we shown scenes with Artis and his alliance mates, like we saw with Peter approaching Lisa? It's because he's insignificant to the game and the outcome.

Carter: Gosh, I really don't have much to go on with him. And with every season, there appears to be a player or two that get past the 1/3 mark with so little to go on. He cannot possibly win, and it's hard to even want to estimate his longevity. In an alliance with Jeff & Jonathan, he can only possibly be seen as a shield for them to use if the numbers aren't in their favor. Or if the numbers become in their favor, he'll be the first of them to go. It seems unlikely that he will have the wherewithal to make heads or tails of the game when all the factions merge. At least, the editing is not giving us any sign that he could, which is bad for him, as we have gotten such information regarding more than half of the other remaining players.

Michael: Very surprising to see so little of him since the first episode. At first Episode 1 looked good for him, but now looking back perhaps they were just using his confessionals as he was such a noteworthy player in his original season. His initial confessionals are tied to the theme and other players (his tribe in general, and Lisa) so this gives more bearing on what is going on outside of his game. Yes, talk of him being a target would normally appear as a good thing, as many winners are shown to be in danger at some point. But this seems to be the meat of Michael's edit, that it may just actually come to fruition. As we have yet to get anymore story from Michael himself. Based on edits of previous returnees, it really doesn't make sense that he would be this neglected so far if he were to make endgame or have a bigger impact on the game. Let's see what happens next episode or at a merge episode. But beware of a spike before the fall.

Jonathan - I think Jonathan has a more stable edit than Michael, and more experience in the game (plus an idol in his pocket) So, it's looking like he has more story to play out and will have more longevity. But could Jonathan make it to the end? At this point, I'd have to say no. I'm also hooked on his Episode 5 statement that it "may just be insurmountable." So far this season, I think the viewers are meant to take what Jonathan says as what will actually go down (as opposed to the irony we heard from Russell about what should be done by a leader, and then see him do the opposite) Jonathan will play and fight, but even if he does get a faction of Tandang to side with him, will his own alliance mates take him to the end. We can still hear the echoes of Episode one when Kalabaw stated they do not want a veteran to win. To me this is more prominent than anything we've hear from Jonathan to the contrary.

Jeff: Of the two stars, there seems to be more focus on Jeff's status than Lisa. (Funny to me, as I knew of her and not him) It was mentioned by him (and Dawson) in Episode 1, and then again in Episode 5. Granted Ep 5 was Dawson's boot episode, but her connection with Jeff never had any bearing on the game. So why the continued focus? Was it to draw more attention to Dawson as the likely boot candidate? Maybe, maybe not. It seemed Jeff-centric, as with his confessional "if THEY end up putting 2+2 together, I'm in trouble" - is this foreshadowing for what will come? First we had lots of talk about his injured knee, and he seems to have overcome that, will he also overcome any revelation of his secret? I'm not so sure - it just doesn't seem like he's winning material. I read somewhere in here that Jeff could be a likeable villain, and I agree. Perhaps he may serve just to sacrifice another likeable player to live a few more days. There just isn't enough hope or strength in his edit to make me believe he'll make endgame.

Abi: Oy, not as harsh as Alicia from One World, but of the same vein. She is not being edited as someone who will triumph. She has had some character development and involvement in the main Tandang alliance, but we have not seen her to have sound strategy, rather playing by emotion. This is in far contrast to the rest of the castaways who are playing far more calm, cool and collected. Could she make the perfect goat? Perhaps. But with an idol at her disposal and editing that has shown her to be too hot-tempered, it's more likely she'll mess up her own game before she gets to the end.

Peter: To me Peter is the only possible dark horse. As with Jeff, he's had some development in being a likeable villain. When I think of a more sinister alliance mate, I quickly think of Sash from Nicaragua. Although Peter wasn't ignored in episode I (and had a rather funny confessional about Mike & the fire) He has been shown in scenes as a key player in his alliance as well as being savvy enough to make a move to break it without anyone knowing. Was this too soon? Is he too cocky? We'll see, if he can keep it up once all the alpha-males meet up on a merged tribe, he may actually be the one slick enough to sneak through to outlast the men. The looming consideration to counter Peter's edit is that the over-arching themes of the season (like Lisa/Michael/Denise strategy or Malcolm/Denise's perseverance) are making his story fall a little flat.

Malcolm: Our likeable, young, athletic, sociable, strategic alpha male, who we've seen develop a strong alliance partnership and have heard given accurate understanding of the game around him. He's the confessional leader (since Russel's exit) and was a key narrator in the first four episodes. Then he had his best episode yet in Episode 5 - in finding an idol, getting absorbed into the winning tribe, and being approached & given valuable information by the dominant alliance in Tandang (Hey, wasn't it Ep 5 that was Kim's big episode in One World?) Sounds like a winner right?! Actually, it sounds too good to be true. There is almost too much going for Malcolm, I'd say. We've seen other players get this much attention and not win, but rarely do we see players get this much attention in the first 5 episodes and keep the momentum to get to the end. I found it peculiar that in the same episode that Malcolm stated he "got his swag back" he also had a confessional in which he said "everyone loves an underdog story" But so far Malcolm's edit has been more portrayed as that of a winner, rather than an underdog. Who could the editors want us to believe he was talking about?

That leaves...

RC: I'd say RC has had the most character development on the Tandang tribe. She was shown as being integral in creating the first alliance on the yellow tribe, and then we were shown her side of the story (not Michael's) on being ousted from the main alliance. Lots of focus on her - spread evenly and carefully over these premerge episodes has me thinking one of two things: she makes it to endgame, or she could be one of the first victims of a newly merged tribe. Michel's highlighting RC's sentimental "bully" confessional is important to notes and may have us rooting for her, but will she go out anyway just like Russel did after sharing his touching childhood story. We may just have another player or two that can take the torch of that theme to the endgame.

Lisa: Interestingly, according to Dabo's confessional tracker thread, Lisa and RC have the same confessionals per each of the five episodes. Difference being that Lisa's edit reads endgame to me, and not an early merge boot. Lisa's edit has been more subtle than RC's and she has been shown on the outside, then within the alliance. A definite journey player with legs. A possible win? Maybe. She's had some great confessionals about strategy and other players, making it very clear to the viewers that she is aware of the game around her. I really like her chances (although I am a bit clouded, because I do know who she is and have been a fan hers) As already noted in her yellow tribe, I think we're going to continue to see Lisa make ties with each player. This is a good sign editing-wise and in her gameplay. Also, in contrast to Jeff Kent, we haven't heard of repeated concerns of her star-status. Other than episode 1 when she stated she wasn't going to use that in her strategy, but would rather get to know each individual. If this continues, it will also play nicely with jury management.

Denise: Another interesting similarity is that Denise seems to be playing the "getting to know each player strategy" too. Granted her original tribe has been decimated, but we have seen Denise come out on top with this. We have been shown her connecting with Zane, and Russell before their ousters, and she had the wherewithal to make her primary alliance with Malcolm.
She's had some great confessional tidbits, like "anything that's going to get me to the endgame, it's going to be me." And most recently "every step is an opportunity to regroup and turn it around" (similar to Lisa's "play the hand that's dealt" confessional) When she was approached by Jeff in the nuKalabaw, she responded to him perfectly, quickly and "absolutely." As a therapist, which is aiding her social game, combined with her physical prowess compared to the other women, she is a force to be reckoned with. We are seeing this, Jeff is stating this at challenges, others have stated her assets at TC and in confessional, and yet she is still avoiding any target. Denise is getting a super edit. And yet it is a tad more subtle to casual viewers than her alliance mate, Malcolm. Is that because Malcolm is male and will come out top dog? I think it is more a testament that Denise will have more longevity than him, and the others. She will be more of an underdog, and may be the first player to attend almost all TCs, if not all, in their season. Will she be the sole survivor? I like to wait until the merge episode to stake my claim. But If I were to choose now, I'd choose Denise. And happily at that


"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by parathor on 10-23-12 at 09:56 AM
Regarding RC/Lisa/Denise: I'd be happy with any of them as the winner. But Denise would have the outplay/outlast theme over the other two (even though Lisa did well calling out to her tribe, and RC swam just as well as Denise... but neither got the recognition from Jeff during those challenges)

I'm favoring RC, but I didn't see her fighting back against the waves... I saw her off sulking about being not included again. When Abi fights with her, she confesses to the camera that she's confused... there is no fight in her. She had a bright idea about making friends with Malcolm, but we saw everyone else have that same idea (and Malcolm even mentioned it, and did not single out RC). She found the HII clue, but lost it, and then lost her alliance because of it. I don't see a winner's edit... but I still like her.

Lisa is awesome, and probably my second-favorite. I would like to see her win, but she's currently in a majority alliance, which doesn't really fit the current theme.

Denise has overcome odds, outplays everyone in challenges, outlasted her tribe... she had the foresight to align with the men. If her new tribe is down 7-4 at the merge, I can see her sneaking in with Malcolm to take out the strongest players first (she's so little - even if people said "she's the strongest player," they'd want to get rid of the other strong players first). I'll say that she wins. But she's my third choice.


"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by michel on 10-23-12 at 07:40 PM
Thank you B1whois, Jobgirl and Aaron Littleton. I always enjoy doing this but it's fun to see that people actually read what I write!

Aaron wrote: "Denise...will be more of an underdog, and may be the first player to attend almost all TCs, if not all, in their season."

Isn't that something! If Kalabaw loses this week and they merge right after then Denise will indeed have attended all TCs. Steph didn't even do that in Palau (Willard's exit) and her journey ended at F7. If Denise makes the F3 she will have earned it more than anyone else ever because the game is played at TC. Nothing else matters but the votes.

Parathor, RC may not have shown the fight but her words are a promise that she will do just that: "I didn’t starve, have no fire and fight in those challenges to let them walk all over me. I am going to fight and if we have to go to Tribal Council, time has to be on my side at this point."

It's not her fault that they didn't go to TC. I take it as a good sign that she talks about fighting back even when it isn't yet needed. Now, if she is all talk and nothing else then I'll join you in saying that she isn't a winner.


"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by AaronLittleton on 10-24-12 at 04:53 PM
Yes, this would be fun to see Denise accomplish.

"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by suzzee on 10-27-12 at 08:53 PM
Hey! I read, I just don't have anything to say. I am enjoying the season though. Where is the sunny tropical Survivor? If I want dark, cold and rainy I'll just go outside.

Anyway I do enjoy your thoughts michel and everyone who has good insights so keep up the good work!

Go Denise!


Coronation by Tribe


"RE: Episode 5 - "I am Going to Fight""
Posted by AaronLittleton on 10-31-12 at 00:56 AM
>"Denise...will be more of
>an underdog, and may be
>the first player to attend
>almost all TCs, if not
>all, in their season."


With Kalabaw attending TC in Ep 6 and the merge coming up, it's looking like this may just happen yet

--Aaron


"Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by michel on 10-27-12 at 04:25 PM
We were reminded that Tandang and Kalabaw hadn’t lost during the first 13 days.
Matsing had yet to win and was down to Malcolm and Denise…but an idol can breathe new life.
<Malcolm showed us the idol and said it gave him a huge amount of power>

At the reward challenge…Malcolm and Denise started new chapters in separate tribes.
In Tandang, Malcolm felt right at home, gaining Pete’s trust, putting Michael and RC further on the outs.
<RC heard saying she was going to fight.>

At Kalabaw, there were two alliances headed in opposite directions.
The men’s alliance had Penner’s idol and grew stronger when they recruited Denise.
While the women’s alliance was hit hard when Dana pulled herself from the game.

At the immunity challenge, Katie struggled, costing Kalabaw the victory.

Back at camp, in the face of diminishing numbers, strength was vital so Katie was an easy target.
When Dawson messed with the bull, she got the horns.
Katie was saved; Dawson kissed her chance at the million dollars goodbye.
(Isn’t Probst arrogant!)

Quite interesting that Probst didn’t personalize any of the remaining original members Kalabaw.
Recruiting Denise was a great move by Kent but he didn’t get credit by name: “They” recruited Denise.
Jonathan was only mentioned in connection to the idol, Carter was ignored.
The same could be said of Abi and Artis who didn’t matter in this confessional.
Note also that Peter didn’t recruit an ally, instead Malcolm gained Peter’s trust.

Jeff reduced the story to 4 players: Malcolm, Denise, RC and Mike. None of the others mattered here. We’ve already considered those 4 as long term players from their episode 1 showing. One more person should make a decisive move before too long to shape that end game story and that will be...

The Penner Punch

Katie: “…I’m at the bottom of the totem pole now…I have to work my magic and see what happens.”

It could be said that Katie now embraces the theme of “fighting back” but too bad she has already been categorized as a bad player. Her story cannot change so drastically.

Kalabaw – Day 14

Katie’s first move was to plant the seed in Denise’s head that Penner had the idol. She figured she’d make the merge if she could get rid of Jonathan first.

When we hear players talk about the merge then we know it’s just around the corner. The boot for this episode was already set up during the last episode so what was the goal of this segment? Setting up the star of this episode and his role in future events. This episode was all about Penner, his brilliance, the need to blindside him, his reaction when put against the wall…

Tandang Day 15: Rice War

Peter: “We haven’t had a lot to eat especially since Mike depleted our ressources by eating it dry. He thinks it cooks in your body because it’s nearly 100 degrees so Mike makes terrible decisions. He’s the most useless player that’s ever been returned to Survivor and he needs to go home.”

Artis: “As a returning player, I don’t understand... We have no food because of Mike. I consider us Tnadang plus 1 and Mike is the 1. Now, with us getting Malcolm, Mike has become expendable.”

There’s a limit to the amount of doubt the editors can pile on a player and they’re certainly coming close to that limit with Mike. Some if not most viewers will start remembering the “Idiot Mike” that Varner saw and forget about the valiant Mike that was the heart of Kucha. Has the limit been crossed? Does Mike still have a chance of winning with this story? Well, he would soon prove ressourceful and get some more rice for the tribe but even that will be met with anger! That tells me there’s still a lot of potential to Mike’s story.

The Reward Challenge

When Kalabaw entered the challenge arena, the camera did show Malcolm but his expression revealed nothing about realizing that Denise was still there. Curious choice when a smile could have been inserted.

RC and Artis sat out for Tandang, meaning Abi would participate…maybe!

For a best of 5, it never got passed round 1 as Lisa, Skupin and Peter simply reached a stand-still with Denise, Jonathan and Carter.
The camera still showed us Denise’s determination before the start.


I laughed when Mike said: “This is like heaven” and Penner, face in the mud, replied: “Well, it’s like something.”
But there wasn’t much else to laugh about this challenge that was going nowhere fast.
Maybe it was the fear of seeing Abi participating in the next leg but Penner decided to make a deal: “Our rice for the sandwiches.”
Artis was asked to weigh in on this because it was his birthday.
He would have none of it. He wanted to win but he said: “Do what you want to do, Mike.”

The Reward

Jonathan: “We arrived, covered in mud…cleaned up…and sat down to the most delicious picnic I ever had.”

Carter: “…The sandwiches were all great. Hopefully, this will give us some kind of advantage.”

Kent: “It was great to see all that food but the fact that we don’t have rice is probably going to wear on us in a couple of days.”

Jonathan: “We realized that a little table off to the side had envelops with our name on them.”

Denise: “I knew what it was immediately: It was letters from home.”

Carter: “The tribe started reading the letters and we started tearing up. We are so far from reality out here that when we get a little glimpse of that, it hits in a place we are not used to.”

Kent: “After suffering from rain and being banged up; it was pretty neat.”

Denise: “Coming to this reward, it’s motivational fuel, emotional fuel that makes any rice that we gave up, totally worth it because now it’s new motivation that keeps us going.”

Jonathan: “We came in determined to win and I think this was a win. We walk away with this victory meal and these beautiful letters from home, we are going to be strong going into the immunity challenge.”

For a tribe that we had mostly written off, they had quite a nice showing during this reward. Everyone (except Katie) received two confessionals that made them look united and likable. Unfortunately, the editors probably did to Kalabaw what they do to many individuals that didn’t get much airtime before their final episode: Kalabaw was highlighted before their fall. Jonathan’s victory fell a little short as the immunity challenge would soon reveal.
Looking for long term stories: - Carter was just in the here and now of the reward.
- Jonathan looked forward to the next challenge.
- Kent looked to the next few days and the missing rice
- Denise’s confessional had more long term implications: Motivational and emotional fuel to keep going. Maybe it limits her to the family visit though.


Tandang – Day 15

One of the women apologized to Artis, saying they wanted to give him a birthday feast.

Artis: “It feels brutal that Kalabaw is enjoying the reward that we should have and we are back here, fighting for survival.” Artis told Malcolm it was a brilliant move by Penner. “What really bothered me was that we had a member of our tribe making decisions for our tribe who has done absolutely nothing for our tribe. And RC? Shut up. It’s not a victory.”

After receiving Kalabaw’s meager ration of rice, RC consoled the tribe by saying Kalabaw didn’t have any but Abi commented that they couldn’t even cook the rice.

Lisa: “When we came back, it was worse than a loss and it shouldn’t have been because, with a loss, you don’t get all their rice. But it was a giving up, a forfeit which is a double loss if you choose to focus your energy that way.”

Abi, the champion of challenges, was focusing her energy that way, saying it was the dumbest move in history.
Malcolm tried to put a positive spin on it but his voice was drowned.

Abi then had a confessional: “We gave up a reward challenge. We didn’t fight for it and I doubt that Kalabaw would give us all of their rice without having a Plan B. They have a boat, they have a spear. They can go out the fishing. They’re not stupid. Kalabaw totally used psychology and it worked.”

RC: “We never come back from a challenge and we’re happy but in Survivor world you sort of have to swallow your pride and do things that you don’t normally do. This is just nasty.”

Can you imagine the mood if they had been losing!

RC then told Mike that Artis was raising a storm, cursing at Mike.
Mike asked the simplest of questions: “Then why did he agree?”
Mike then compared Artis to a teenaged girl, whispering to everybody but not having the courage to confront him.

RC: “Artis, Pete and Abi are very nasty and angry. They are cruel but they have the upper hand. My strategy is to let Abi blow up constantly so I can slide under the radar but she’s like a Brazilian bomb that is about to blow up any second.”

Kalabaw – Day 16

It was supposed to be a beautiful day for fishing.

Carter: “We made a deal with the yellow tribe…In all honesty, I didn’t like the deal we came up with because there are no guarantee of food at the moment. Jonathan is pretty confident that he could catch fish but to me it’s a pretty risky deal.”

Katie: “Jonathan comes back and I’m like: “Did you catch anything?” Good Lord! That rice gave you immediate energy but now it’s gone and Jonathan is trying to stay positive by saying we have plenty of food. No we don’t.”

Note that the ones complaining about the deal are the young ones (except for Artis but he’s really like a teenaged girl!). Only Malcolm tried to put a positive spin on it but I think we are clearly seeing a generation gap forming. If the season does go that way, then we should note that the older generation has the numbers advantage.

Jonathan: “Carter is getting frustrated. I promised there’d be food and now…he’s starving. The deprivation doesn’t affect me like it affects some of these younger players but today we have an immunity challenge and it’s crucially important that we win today. We have to get some momentum back. The numbers are tipping badly. If we continue to lose, we are totally screwed.”

Note that there are no “we can do this” type confessionals for Kalabaw that we saw from Natalie in Foa Foa. All of their confessionals are fatalistic.

The Challenge

Probst once more noted that Abi was sitting out.
She told him it wasn’t her choice.

With Lisa and Denise launching balls, we had Artis and Penner at one post, Carter and Malcolm at the second, Jeff against Pete and RC against Katie.
Penner scored on the first throw.
Pete and RC replied for Tandang in the second round.
Playing the outfield, the baseball player scored 3 consecutive points for Kalabaw.
Tandang switched strategy, Skupin telling Lisa to go short for Malcolm.
That earned Tandang the next two points and a tie.
Realizing a bit too late that the game had moved to the infield, Kent switched positions with Carter but Malcolm did a little pass interference, throwing the baseball player to the ground to score the last point.
(A reminder of Dawson’s comment that football players are better athletes than Baseball players! And, on that note, Jeff must be a replacement referee because he never called that blatant foul!)

Tandang won immunity and Jeff told Abi that Malcolm deserved to hold the idol.

Kalabaw

Kent: “Carter was outmuscled and outmaneuvered by Malcolm so we ended up short again. Another disappointment; we have to go to tribal Council and vote somebody off. Penner and I have an alliance but I am still on the fence right now. I still don’t know which way I am going to jump.”

Carter and Kent discussed the value of Denise, the worthlessness of Katie and the dangers of Penner.
Once more, Kent’s words (“We didn’t want a veteran to win”) were captioned on screen.

Carter: “Jeff thinks it may be a good idea to make a big move and get rid of Jonathan but, at the same time, going into the merge with Penner might be a good thing because the eyes are going to be on him, not on me and Jeff because no one wants a returning player to win.”

Jeff ended the conversation with: “I think we need to pull the Penner Punch. We just have to make sure he doesn’t see it coming so he doesn’t use the idol. That’s all.”

Hearing Jeff once more say that they don’t want a veteran to win now makes it likely that we see just that happening. The newbies missed their chance so now, I expect Carter and Jeff to regret for the rest of their lives when Jonathan blindsides them and goes with Skupin and his tribe. That will be the real “Penner Punch” as only Jonathan can deliver it!

Then, in a marvelous little scene, Carter turned to Jonathan who had joined them in the shelter and asked: “Penner, what do you want to do? Katie or Penner…I mean Denise?”

Kent noticed the faux-pas and shook his head but Jonathan seemed to accept it as an honest mix-up.

The audience certainly noticed it though! And it will count as the first hint that Jonathan sees it coming.

Jonathan: “To win this game, I’m going to have to make big moves out of desperation. That’s what happens: If you’re down in numbers and your back starts getting put up against the wall. Katie has got to go, she is not useful to us. I need her gone.”

Note the change of sound quality when Jonathan starts talking about Katie. I think the part about making big moves comes from a different time frame than this episode. Booting Katie is certainly not the big move Jonathan was talking about so there’s a lack of logic in this confessional that is more likely coming from the editors than from Jonathan himself.

The first part of the confessional comes from a time when Jonathan will truly feel that his back is against the wall. That will probably be at the merge. It was inserted here to put the wheels in motion but Jonathan’s words at TC show that he wasn’t yet desperate. Expect a big move by Penner, one that Carter and Kent will indeed regret for the rest of their lives.

Katie: “When I went over to the three guys, right away without me asking, Penner goes: “It’s Denise. I’m thinking he is feeding me a big line of BS...”

Katie rightfully called Penner the wild card, saying she trusted Denise a hell of a lot more.

Now we have two players set up for a big move!

Kent: “I came into this game knowing that I would have to lie, knowing that I would have to jeopardize my integrity, my character so I am still weighing my options and all of them have to do with furthering myself in this game.”

Note that, after Pete last week, Kent now delivers a confessional that reminds us of Kim’s last season: Weighing his options, going further in the game…Why don’t these confessional sound as promising as they did when Kim delivered them? Because of the season’s themes: The ones that have the options or think they do, the ones in control, will find out that they aren’t in control. The next confessional by Kent would drive the point home:

Kent: “The hard decision is voting Jonathan out…It’s a crap shoot. You go up to the plate not knowing if you are going to strike out or hit a home run but you go up to the plate swinging the bat.”

There are a lot more strike outs than homeruns in a season! Jeff failed to make the hard decision. “You’re OUT!”

Tribal Council

When asked who was in trouble, Katie and Denise raised their hand.
Denise explained she was still the new girl on the block.
Katie admitted she didn’t perform well in challenges.
When Jeff asked Jonathan about his feeling of security, Penner answered: “One doesn’t want to volunteer one’s self and give everyone else the notion that “Maybe I should vote for Penner.” Whether I am vulnerable or not, I want to give the impression that I feel confident.”
(That is a new version of “The game is afoot!)
Kent said that every votes gets tougher. He added that the votes will be blindsides because they like each other.
Jonathan explained that it would be so because the votes won’t be personal.
Jeff asked Kent if he played any games that was like Survivor.
Kent flat out said: “No. This game sucks.”
They agreed that it sucked because it was complicated. “You are going to blindside your friends because you are too guilty to tell him that we don’t want you here anymore.”
All the while, the camera was on Jonathan as if to tell us he understood that Kent was really talking about him. This is our second hint that Jonathan sees it coming.
Katie told Jeff her vote would be based on loyalty.
Jonathan said that Katie could be sending a message to someone. He added: “They know I would do anything in my power to make this work out and it might ricochet and one of them might get voted out.”

Before sending them to vote, Jeff rejoiced: “Everybody knows it will be a blindside, the question is; who is it going to be?”

While voting, Katie told us that Jonathan isn’t to be trusted.

When Jeff read the vote against him, Jonathan laughed and turned towards Kent.

That was our third hint that Jonathan sees it coming and will deliver the Penner Punch himself. Certainly he’ll realize that this vote came from Katie but why would she vote against him if she hadn’t been told to do so? The only reason she voted against him and not Denise had to be because that’s what she had been told could happen. Jonathan is smart AND paranoid enough to understand that implication.

Jeff sent them back to camp by saying that anything could happen if they were strong and united.
They are weak and divided!

The Story

This episode pointed us directly to Jonathan as the catalyst of the whole end game. Cook Islands’ main narrational theme was the “Jonathan camera”: All the players and the events were shown from Jonathan’s point of view. If Jonathan liked someone, they got a good edit, if he didn’t their edit suffered. Parvati had a nice edit up to the mutiny when Jonathan joined her and finally gave us an opinion on her: “She didn’t know anything about Surviving and didn’t deserve to be there.” That was how she was portrayed up to the moment that Jonathan left and them, just like that, Yul told us that she wasn’t that bad!! The same could be said of Nathan and Becky and Adam, etc…

This season, I think everything will depend on the Penner Punch. His actions will decide the game and while I know Carter and Kent will regret it for the rest of their lives, I can oonly guess who will profit from it. Kent’s mantra that they don’t want a returning player to win points in the direction of the returning players though. One thing seems certain; the winner will not be one of the young ones who are nasty and cruel.

The Characters

The Nasty and Cruel Players:

Abi, Pete and Artis: Somehow, the Penner Punch will also ricochet on them and they won’t see it coming. How? Probably because of a power shift that will come from Jonathan’s move. Their portrayal is much too negative to expect any other outcome than a comedic fall. Their actions could have been spun much more positively because they weren’t wrong: It is questionable to give up in a challenge. It isn’t a good idea to eat big portions. But the rational comments we heard told us that these three are overreacting, acting in an illogical manner. That kills their story (but that isn’t the first hint we’ve received about their failure).

The Ones that Will Regret It:

Carter: I expect he will be the first to pay for the Penner Punch. He was shown to be quite dumb when he asked Penner if he wanted to eliminate Penner. His story was lacking in many other ways but we saw him in more focus this time and he was outmaneuvered. By Malcolm in the challenge and by Penner in the game.

Kent: At first, I thought that his mantra would be used to tell us that a returning player couldn’t win but to hear it repeated in an episode where he missed his chance, where he didn’t make the tough call, then I see him voting for the returning player in the end after all. This episode was a strike out for Kent and he probably won’t get another trip to the plate, meaning that the bat will never be in his hands again, that he just lost control.

The Catalyst
Jonathan
: I could be mistaken but I see Jonathan as the catalyst for this season’s outcome, not its final product. A big move out of desperation sounds more like something that will totally shake up the game, take the control out of everyone’s hands and give us an unlikely winner. Penner did it once when he mutinied and only Yul and his powerful idol prevented a total collapse of his former tribe. There are no Yuls this season and the idol isn’t as powerful so Penner’s actions will destroy Kalabaw and himself along the way and probably shake Tandang enough that its own power structure will collapse.

Sidelined : This episode put so much energy is preparing Jonathan‘s story that our long term players had limited participation:

Lisa : For the second week, her role was limited to narrating the events of Tandang. She still fits with the main themes but there isn’t any progression to her story.

Malcolm: The main focus was on his performance during the immunity challenge. Jeff praised him for it and we even heard Kent commenting on his abilities to outmuscle and outmaneuver Carter. But we already expected that from him. We had brief glimpses of his thoughts on the game but they are mostly limited to surviving the immediate dangers or to boast about some imaginary power. There is no long term connections surrounding Malcolm and for a large character that is bothersome.

Denise: The episode never gave us her thoughts about being in danger and we didn’t see what she did to save herself. We did hear that she felt in danger so this would have been the perfect episode to showcase her abilities to regroup and influence the decisions. Unfortunately, all she had was that early talk with Katie who was the one planting a seed. There is still care given to Denise’s edit but a winner’s thoughts are never ignored when the vote could possibly go against them. Hopefully this was just a pause for Denise but it looked really strange.

RC: Once more, RC was put on the defensive, first by the recap that still doesn’t want us to forget her misery then by Artis after the reward. I found it interesting that RC decided to use Lisa’s strategy of letting Abi blow up. Could the two reasonable women have already come to an understanding that we are not seeing to keep us fearing for RC? I will say that over and above the care we see given to Denise, Malcolm and Lisa, there is some manipulation to RC’s story. She’s always been shown to be in danger, (even the ocean is against her!) yet she hasn’t gone once to Tribal Council. The anti-Denise still has just about as much importance to the story as the sex therapist. That would be something to consider seriously as manipulating the edit for the winner if someone else hadn’t received even more manipulations.

Mike: Can you believe that one of the Heroes of Australia was called the worst returning player ever? And I am not talking about the listless Colby that showed he was a poor player both times he returned. How can a move that deprived the enemy of all their food reserves be called the dumbest ever? The editors seem to be going out of their way to dump on Mike, to destroy his reputation by showing the audience they were right not to invite him back for the first All-Stars. However, if that was the intent, if they wanted us to say that Mike is useless; then why show us Skupin as the one responsible for their comeback in the immunity challenge? From the sideline, the “coach” told his “QB” to throw short to Malcolm.

There has to be an alternative and that could only be that they have a beautiful comeback story on the back-burner for him. Imagine, this tireless worker, hunter, fisher is said to have done nothing for his tribe and we have no way of saying that it isnt true. Have we seen him hunting, fishing or even just looking for fruits? No but we know that cannot be, that people don’t change that much. Therefore, Mike’s contributions are hidden from us and there has to be a reason for it.

There is so much manipulation to his edit that I have to believe that Mike is the winner of Survivor – The Philippines.


"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by blueeyed on 10-28-12 at 06:21 PM
Interesting analysis and gutsy. I haven't even really considered Mike as the winner because I just can't get over the fact he hasn't had a single confessional since Week 1. Though he did have an amazing premiere episode. According to the confessionals thread, he had 7 confessionals in that one episode (but none since.)

"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by michel on 10-28-12 at 09:46 PM
I'd consider it gutsy if I was betting on it but, as is, it's just for fun.

What would be really funny if this comes true would be the wink at Tina's win that Mike's edit would represent: Tina's win was predicted at just about this time during season 2 by Tapewatcher who noticed that Tina had been the only player without a confessional during episode 1. He called it "The Dog that Didn't Bark."

Here, if Mike wins, it would be a variation on the theme: While he was prominent in episode 1, Mike has fallen into anonymity since then, a dog that doesn't bark. The parallel seems too strange to be a coincidence.


"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by blueeyed on 10-28-12 at 10:42 PM
I love that explanation for the lack of confessionals. It is very odd that he has no confessionals for such a long period. It does feel intentional, and your explanation is better than any I can think of. So maybe I'll start rooting for Mike. Though if I had to bet, I'd go with Denise at this point.

"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 10-31-12 at 01:09 AM
Thought I'd chime in here too! It certainly is rather bold to predict Mike as the winner. I would love for him to have been the winner, but it just doesn't add up for me.

My take on Mike's edit is to show the nature of the two factions on Tandang. While we have been shown the various alliance shifts over there during the past 6 episodes - the divide we've been shown repeatedly is those who want Mike gone vs. those who don't.

Just like in Ep 1, when he had his only confessionals so far, Mike's edit is aiding in the telling of this season's story - NOT in telling us of his winning story. I sense he has been used by editing to make those who want to take him out of the game look bad (ie. Artis, Abi Maria, Peter). This is why we are seeing it and hearing it from their perspective and not hearing anything from Mike.

Those on his tribe who don't want to see him go, like RC and Lisa (and perhaps Malcolm) are getting far stronger, consistent edits than him. Let's see if he continues to be a player in one of their games. As their shot for sole survivor seems more likely than his.

One more thought: Can't wait to see Mike's interaction with Denise at the merge! Now that will be telling ;)


"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-29-12 at 04:37 PM
Just posting it again here as it's relevant:

Tapewatcher's breakdown of the "Dog-That-Didn't-Bark" storyline

(grab a cup of coffee - it's a long read)


"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by CTgirl on 10-29-12 at 10:19 AM
You know I've been a fan of yours for years michel and the thing that I admire most is the way you can pinpoint the theme of the episode week after week. Always fascinating reading!

I am firmly in Denise's camp but I noticed too that we didn't hear her thoughts before the Kalabaw tribal council and that concerns me. She did have a nice segment during the letters from home which is always a positive sign. I won't give up on her chances but there is one red flag up now!

Mike's edit has been odd and as you pointed out, heavily manipulated. They played up his clumsiness so much in the beginning - perhaps to echo his falling in the fire - that I fully expect him to have a redemption of some sort. He will be one to watch post merge. In regards to your thoughts that he wins, I am reminded that when Jeff Probst described this season months ago as really good, Spot commented, that must mean a man wins!


"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by michel on 10-29-12 at 05:27 PM
Thank you, CTGirl. I really like Denise's story a lot myself. The funniest thing is that, after my first watch on Wednaesday, I told myself: This is it: Denise wins. Lisa and RC also have stories that could lead to a win and I'd be pulling for RC myself but there's just something about Mike's story.

Take Artis' comment that Mike has done nothing for the tribe and ask yourself what is the most important thing someone can do for a tribe? Win challenges of course. Well, Mike was shown twice finding the way for his tribe to win a challenge: Throwing his idol in the air to knock the other to the ground and telling Lisa to go for Malcolm. That's doing something for the tribe in a big way. And didn't we have a press photo with Mike using the fishing nets? He must have gone out to catch fish then, no?


"RE: Episode 6 - The Penner Punch"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 10-31-12 at 00:52 AM
Enjoyable episode considering it was a predictable boot. Loved the Reward Challenge, even if it was cut short due to the "unprecedented" deal. It was priceless to see the tribes unknowingly spoil/share tribal dynamics during the negotiation. All on the heels of a merge coming next! Setting up lots of conflict and variables to use in creating new factions of a merged tribe. So what did we get from the castaways this time:


Carter - Good to finally get some confessionals out of Carter, but is it too little too late. Based on his edit so far, I'd say so. His confessionals, along with quotes from his scenes, gave us the impression that Carter doesn't have the fight in him. Stating "I just want to go home now" is a sweet sentiment in response to letters from home, but not the fighting spirit needed to move forward in this season of survivor. Add this to him saying "I don't know if my body can last" - the editing is not painting a picture of longevity for Carter. We also have him turning to Jonathan about the boot, stating "Katie or Penner?" Ha, what a slip up. Classic! Enough indication that he won't have the wherewithal to make heads or tails of the mix-ups at merge. Just like he handed over his playing spot to Jeff Kent at the IC, he will likely provide another player 3 more days in the game as he gets booted.

Artis - There's still very little story for Arits and it all seems to be tied to Michael, and the dislike Artis has for him. This episode we also saw Peter and Abi Maria share their disdain for Michael, but they have more story and character development than Artis - providing even more contrast for us to show how Artis is not part of this season's story. Personally, I thought Artis' confessionals about Michael were funny, but it really hurts to see nothing more from him, as there likely could have been more to work with from him if he were more relevant to the story.

Michael - What seemed like such a great quote for Michael in the first episode with "going with the game." It seems like he is far off course with it. Those he was aligned with, not only moved on with their game (& their alliance from him) episodes ago, but now we see them outwardly harboring resentment toward him at camp with making rice and at the challenge with making cross-tribal deals. Is Michael still "going with the game" - based on the editing, it sure does not look that way to me. He has merely become a litmus test for us to determine who from the Tandang tribe should be deemed positive or negative. And in Ep 6, this clearly classified Artis, Peter and Abi Maria as the "negatives." As a revered returnee, we are not hearing his side of the story (as his is NOT this season's story) and this is unprecedented with the editing of returnees. I firmly believe that with a five week confessional count of 0 (despite a strong Ep 1 showing) that the writing is on the wall for Michael - he is not the sole survivor this season.

Jonathan - In contrast to Michael, Jonathan is getting a beefier edit that production likes to give to returnees. Plus the fact that Jonathan is arguably the best narrator we have ever seen in terms of understanding the game and being able to articulate it clearly to the audience (perhaps, only second to Rob C.) Therefore, Jonathan will be seen and heard, regardless of his actual longevity. While Penner was the star of Ep 6, he failed to get any fish like he promised, and we even hear Jeff state "Yeah, it didn't work out for him" - which was also captioned on our screens. Once again, throughout the season, Jonathan's edit and tribe has been the most literal. Each week it seems we are getting telegraphed how he will fall short. His story is intertwined with Jeff (and a bit of Carter on the side) - this will play out after merge, but likely won't have legs to make it to FTC.

Jeff Kent - Had a solid episode - with a good IC performance, a nice "letters from home" share, and some "boot" talk (which shows how he manages to always keep the target from him). But yet with each episode, it's harder to see how Jeff might actually have the opportunity to speak his game in front of the journey. He's back to his mantra of: "we can't let a veteran win." How much different is that from letting a celebrity baseball player win? It seems like Jeff will have to do some double-dealing at merge time to prolong his game, and we have been set up to believe that it will include betraying his alliance to Jonathan. We haven't seen Jonathan do anything to deserve this betrayal (yet) - therefore making Jeff look more like the villain. He'll have some room to play with amongst the Tandangs, but does he have enough story so far to pick up momentum through the merged tribe?

Abi Maria - This episode continued to further Abi Maria's edit as someone the viewers will not get behind to cheer for as a winner. Her negativity outshines any logic or strategic gameplay she may seem to have - and we see this in camp as well as from her confessionals. We also see Jeff repeatedly mention her lack of participation when at the challenges. Abi Maria has longevity due to being on the winning tribe so many times, and being tied to Tandang's main alliance. With an upcoming merge, we shall see her in action and see if she can actually play with any sound strategy. The edit does not support this, as she is clearly the most emotional player left in the game. Unless we start hearing hints from other key players to take her as a goat, she will not see endgame. And viewers may get to enjoy the "Brazilian bomb about to blow up" as suggested by RC.

Peter - Not much of an episode for Peter. Just some further confirmation of his ire for Mike, and his alignment with Abi Maria and Artis. This episode put the least attention on him of the three "negatives." This may indicate he outlasts them, but we didn't really learn anything more to add to his longevity in the game. His story needs to amp up come merge time, otherwise this possible darkhorse will be seen as a racehorse and a likely boot target as a challenge threat.

Malcolm - Malcolm was nicely highlighted in the recap - both he and Denise, had their journey's thus far, clearly emphasized. To which we were reminded that he "got my swag back" and that he has power with the idol. Even in an episode without confessionals, Malcolm is "on fire" - as stated by Jeff in the IC. After a big Ep 5 for Malcolm, it's no surprise that we'd hear less from him this episode. He has already been established as a key player this season, with strategy soundbites and connections to other key players. Although approached by Peter last episode, he was not connected with the "negatives" in this episode, rather he was shown contributing a positive outlook on the rice situation. Does this align him with other "positives" from that scenario: Michael, RC, and Lisa? Does it even matter? He has an HII in his possession and he will soon be reunited with Denise.

RC - RC is still getting attention, even though it's not really warranted for the episode. At the recap we are again reminded of how Mike & RC are on the outs, yet it was her quote that was repeated "I'm going to fight!" And at the Reward challenge, when the deal was made, Artis stated that "you all are not seeing the big picture" to which the camera pans over to include RC - as if to remind us that she does see the big picture and is included in it. And she had a great confessional about "in Survivor world you have to swallow your pride" - clearly contrasting the self-awareness that some players have and others don't. The question is will we get to see RC "swallow her pride" sitting in front of a jury. She continues to have the 'cream of the crop' with her confessionals, will she continue to narrate post merge?

Lisa - Once again, Lisa had a nice steady episode. She held her own at the Reward challenge up against the strong Denise (to which Jeff noted), she shared the most accurate, balanced viewpoint on the "rice deal" and it's aftermath, and she was not indicated to be clustered with the negative tone of her alliance mates. She also had a noticeable connection with Malcolm, as they went on to win the IC. Lisa is continually given the consistent edit that we like to see for someone who makes it far into the game. From the glimmers of what we've been given for next episode, it seems Lisa is going to come into focus some more. It will be telling for chances for endgame.

Denise - Like with Malcolm, the recap highlighted Denise's progression so far in this game. We were reminded of her great quote "Every step is an opportunity to turn things around." This was yet another good episode for her, even though the attention wasn't mainly on her. Like with the first scene with Katie, not only did it help set up Katie's boot, but we once again got to see Denise in action with another player working her magic. Also in Ep6 we now hear 3 more players in the game (Jeff and Carter, then Penner) talk about her work ethic and loyalty, and ability to win challenges. We are consistently being told of Denise's value. Plus, we can now add to Denise's list of remarkable quotes: in response to the letters from home, she stated "It's motivational fuel, it's emotional fuel... to just keep going" And yes, while many of her quotes could be weaving the narrative for the Survivor story, it has a feeling of being about Denise's personal journey through this game. Along with the rest of her deliberate attention she's getting, this makes it more than a journey edit, but rather a winner's edit.


"RE: Episode 6 - The Michel Pick"
Posted by parathor on 10-31-12 at 04:39 PM
Love the recap/analysis, as always! And I'm finally glad that you settled on Mike as the winner. I was leaning that way after Episode 1, but then he disappeared.

Can another theme be: Remember Season 2? (they had an issue with no rice, too... taken away by the water!)

Lisa & Denise: Nice women, and I want them to do well, but I'm kind of bored of them at this point, much as I was bored with Tina. Denise survived her tribe... yay. Lisa is awesome, but she hasn't done much lately. Either could be the winner, a'la Tina... lucky, and hanging with the Colby-type.

Malcolm: I don't see a long-term player. He strikes me (if we're going with those S2 analogies) of being similar to Colby, with the inevitable immunity run and the alliance with an older female. Can he go that far? I don't think so.

RC: I guess we have to compare her to... Amber? Maybe if she was still the sidekick to the villainess (we'll have to wait for AllStars3 for her to win?) If not Amber, then Jerri? She snuggled to Malcolm (Colby) that one time, and she feels alone. But she's way nicer. As nice as... Elisabeth? She has a thing for the older man (Mike), so maybe that fits. F4?

Mike: What would have happened had he stayed out of the fire in Autralia? There were a lot of fire references (from Lisa) the last episode, as if wanting us to remember the fire guy.

Plus if Michel is putting the stamp on Mike, then I'm going there, too!

Grats Mike!!


"Survivor Phillipines - Episode 7: It Just Takes Two"
Posted by michel on 11-03-12 at 01:40 PM
The recap first reminded us of Malcolm and Denise’s story: A pair from the beginning, Denise and Malcolm were the only members of Matsing remaining.
<We heard Denise say that Malcolm may be young but that he is wise.>
A change in the game split them up.
Malcolm, with his idol, was sent to Tandang, winning challenges after challenges…
While Denise had yet to taste victory with Kalabaw.

Then we had Mike and RC’s troubles in Tandang:
The winning streak came to an end when Skupin and RC convinced their tribe to forfeit the victory for the rest of Kalabaw’s rice.
<We heard Mike saying: “From a strategic point of view, let’s take their food and go.”
We also saw Artis’ sour reaction.>
Back at camp, Artis, Pete and Abi were all but satisfied…
<Abi is heard saying it was the dumbest moments on survivor>
…villifying Skupin and RC for giving up reward.

At the reward challenge, Malcolm singlehandedly caught the victory for Tandang while Katie continued to be a liability.
Jeff Kent had other plans, targeting his former new ally Penner and his idol.
<Kent tells us he may need Jonathan to go further in the game.>
At Tribal Council, Kent ditched his plans and Katie to keep the tribe strong.

This recap reduced Kalabaw to being only Denise’s new surroundings. They weren’t worth mentioning before they had to go to Tribal Council again. In fact, the recap reduced the season to the obstacles faced by Malcolm, Denise, Mike and RC. One of that foursome wouldn’t survive the night but for the other 3, the future looks much more promising.

It Just Takes Two

Kalabaw – Night 16

Denise: “Coming back from the 6th Tribal Council in a row, I’m just glad I’m back but it’s like déjà vu. It’s one after the other. Am I cursed?”

Jonathan then talked about Katie’s vote against him. Kent tried to explain but Jonathan wasn’t convinced.

Kent first told us about the situation: “Tribal tonight was chaotic. I was about to let Penner go but I think Penner could help me out. I hope I made the right choice. We’re two guys taking shots at each other but there will come a time and a place where I will have to get to him before he gets to me.”

Jonathan had a confessional also: “I think Jeff and I have built a trust between each other but I was really surprised that Katie wrote my name. It shouldn’t have been. I forget that other people are lying. It’s always my problem. It’s a wake-up call. Do I get to keep my eyes and ears open as we move forward? Of course. It would be stupid not to.”

Tandang – Day 17

Mike told his tribe that day 17 was the day he fell in the fire during Australia.
Malcolm joked that he barely made it this far this time.

Mike: “I fell in the fire this far in the game 24 seasons ago so I no longer have an advantage. It’s all new territory for all of us.”

This, I think, is the key quote to understanding the story.

Just then, Artis spotted the catamaran.

Lisa: “We were just lying around thinking it was going to be a long day when all of a sudden we saw this boat and we thought: He’s going to come in the cove, no he’s not, he’s coming in: OH! My God!. Then we heard the best news we’ve had since day 1…When you only have 10 minutes to gather up everything you have, everything is like gold, making sure I don’t have socks hanging on a line somewhere or shoes hidden underneath the raft somewhere, that’s priority one.”

Malcolm had a confessional while packing his bag: “I buried my idol the first day I got here now I have 10 minutes to dig it up again.”

Kalabaw

Jonathan: “It’s a new lifeline for all of us. There’s 4 of us, 7 of them so we’re hoping for some dissension over there. We can take one or two people to our side, use them for a while and then cut them off if we can.”

Denise: “Kalabaw, we are going to stay 4 strong. We need two to shift that balance and have majority. My plan is to stick with the alliance that I have with Kalabaw but, at the same time, I truly would like to go back to my original alliance with Malcolm.”

During the unloading of the boat, I noticed RC picking the immunity idol...

...and then Skupin had it when he went to embrace Jonathan, the first two to greet each other.

Knowing what happened to RC, did they show this to hint that she should have kept it instead of giving it (and her story) to Skupin? And what is the significance of showing Skupin and Mike hugging first if they do not align sooner or later? Especially considering the confessional that came immediately after

Kent: “I believe that a veteran player shouldn’t be winning this game. Penner has always been my priority since day 1 and now that I am on a team with Penner and Skupin, I have two priorities. It was a good introduction. I don’t think anyone knows who I am so that’s a good thing. As long as we don’t talk about baseball, maybe I’m safe.”

Peter: “The feast was amazing. There was more food than you could ever want. The wine was awesome. The tribe’s first intention when we landed on this island was to be Tandang strong but that was impossible because RC is someone that would never let that happen and Skupin doesn’t have a brain of his own. He does what RC tells him to do.”

Mike’s confessional reminded us that Pete was the cause of dissension, not the other way around: “I never made the merge before. They merged in Australia, the day after I was medevaced so this is kinda cool and merging with numbers? Even better. I noticed Pete and Abi, the power alliance in our tribe, being a little quiet. They haven’t had alliegience in weeks to RC and I so we’re really free agents. Being free agents means you get to choose your team. It just takes two.”

Doesn’t this confessional contradict Pete’s assesment completely? It certainly seems that Skupin has a brain. I also noted that the merge feast was the occasion for the viewers to hear about only 2 players’ personal life: Kent and Skupin’s.

Abi, RC and Lisa sat together, RC saying that she thought Denise would talk to her.
Abi suggested that RC should be a spy to get information.
RC countered that they weren’t one big happy family which seemed to frustrate Lisa a lot because we saw her bowing her head when RC said that.

Merged Tribe – Day 17

Lisa: “On the merged beach, the guys were working on the shelter so I thought I’d hang everyone’s clothes out and give them some sun so we don’t sleep with wet clothes. Then I picked up Malcolm’s bag…I was looking in there and I felt something. I discovered he had the hidden immunity idol in his bag, which totally shocked me.”

Malcolm and Denise quickly noticed.

Lisa wasn’t dressed the same way while she was hanging the clothes as when she was giving her confessional. She had a dress while hanging the clothes but pants when talking to Malcolm and giving her confessional.




Maybe she changed before Malcolm whisked her away but he must have acted quickly. Her hair changed also in each scene (Loose when she first hangs the clothes, in a bun on top while hanging the last ones, So, it’s quite probable that the camera crew missed the shot when she found the idol and had to recreate the scene from another occasion when Lisa takes care of the clothes.

Malcolm: “I was going to change clothes and hide the idol but I thought one hour would be a safe amount of time to assume people would be eating, drinking and getting to know each other. Apparently, the estrogen kicked in and we had to have our clothes cleaned. Now, I have to pin down good ole Lisa who, I think, from the goodness of her heart, tried to dry my clothes. I get her alone and don’t say a word, I just looked at her.”

Lisa did confess immediately to finding the idol. She promised not to tell anybody while Malcolm promised his “new momma” a Final 3 deal with Denise.

Malcom’s confessional continued: “Alleluia! The church lady found it who hopefully, has a heart. At the same time, I’m locked into an involuntary alliance with Lisa and Denise, the two people I don’t have confidence I could beat in the Final 3 just because they are nice but…”

Lisa had a confessional of her own: “Malcolm promised a Final 3 with me and Denise. That’s really nice but you do have to take it with a grain of salt. I’m not the only actor on this island! I could be being played.”

Having both players give their point of view underlines the importance of the scene and of the characters. The scene ended with both laughing but we suspect that Final 3 won’t make it to the end and Lisa certainly came out of it looking more aware of the situation than Malcolm

Day 18
We never heard a discussion about the tribe’s name.

Lisa had a confessional after a nice scene with Jonathan: “Penner is aware of my past as a child star but we didn’t talk strategy and, if we weren’t on this island, we would have a really great time over lunch, just talking about each other’s lives. If you have that kind of connection, it’s valuable especially if you do wind up aligned together further down the road.”

Does anyone think Lisa may have warned Penner before TC, letting him know to use his idol? It would be strange since she did vote against him but maybe it was a way to hide their future alliance.

Jonathan: “Lisa had been on “Facts of Life” but now, as with many, many former actors, you get older and you do other things with your life. Lisa is a cool lady. She could actually go pretty far as an under-the-radar, non-threatening person who could find herself sitting in the Final 3. I believe that.”

Jonathan promised not to blow her cover.

Jonathan’s POV is always important on Survivor so we should say with confidence that Lisa will make the Final 3.

Jonathan then talked to Skupin about the dangers of being a returning player.

Jonathan: “I am trying to find fissures in this yellow tribe and Skupin seems like a cool guy so I got to help him feel as comfortable as he can about slitting the throats of the people he spent 17 days with.”

Jonathan offered 4 loyal people but we now know he couldn’t deliver.

Mike, after receiving a nice helicopter shot, talked it over with RC asking her how she felt about realignement.
RC only gave him a 50-50 which sounded like the wrong answer and could be the reason Mike didn’t stick with RC in the end.
Mike told her he couldn’t trust Tandang.

RC in confessional: “There are a lot of dynamics right now. Me and Mike are solid but we would like to feel more secure. The old Tandang tribe made it obvious about me and Mike. They ostracised us both for 17 days. So, Jonathan corrals his threesome and I have Mike obviously on my side, so that’s 6 so why wouldn’t we do something? If we have a chance to go somewhere else, why not?”

Mike told her why not: “We need to take baby steps before we can take giant steps.”

Back in camp, Kent was back to his idea of going after veterans, Penner first.
Pete, Malcolm, Artis and Abi were there to listen.

Kent: “I know Penner’s got the idol, nobody else knows for sure but I know and I’ll join any game to get Penner out before I get out.”

The group agreed to split the votes 4-4 between Penner and RC.

Malcolm: “The little clique inside of Tandang is operating under the assumption that Penner has an idol but we don’t have the votes within our own tribe to split the votes and get rid of him so we have to pull in Jeff, Carter and Denise. We would split the votes between Penner and RC. If Penner has an idol, he’ll have to play it to save himself and RC goes home but, if not, we revote and get rid of Penner right now. The only wrinkle is if the Kalabaw; Jeff, Carter and hum, Denise, are going to go along with this, go along with what they say they will.”

Being the one to express the nasty ones’ plan is terrible for Malcolm. His story is that of the nice guy that wins challenges and goes to the end hoping that his social game will enable him to win over two very nice persons yet now, he is tainted with RC’s blood. This ended his chances, storywise, to win the game. At least Denise was nowhere to be seen during this scene.

The Challenge

Does anyone think that Abi lied about her weight?!

Skupin was the first to fall out, followed by Pete and Penner who got some ribbing from Jeff like in the good old days.
Lisa and Malcolm soon followed.
Abi let go immediately after RC had dropped her bucket so Denise won immunity for the women.
Carter eventually outlasted Artis and Kent.
For Denise it was her first immunity as Malcolm noted

Artis: “I’m happy that Penner and RC didn’t come close to winning immunity because we are going to split the votes between Penner and RC. If Penner plays the idol, RC goes home. If Penner doesn’t play the idol, he goes home with it.”

RC: “It’s been a good day so far. No, I didn’t win immunity but we got this core 6 in place right now. Me and Mike are solid and we are definitely with Kalabaw. With us 6. we are in the majority.”

Mike had a confessional that looked back to his whole time on Survivor and clearly contrasted with RC’s carefree attitude: “I have never felt threatened before and tonight, returning players are a major threat. My reputation is pretty competitive. My reputation isn’t being loyal to a tribe that hasn’t been loyal to me. There isn’t anybody who think that I would go down without a fight.”

These words and the epsiode’s outcome tell us that the themes of fighting back outlined by RC really applied to her companion, Mike.

He then had a talk with Jeff, the leader of Kalabaw: “Pete, Abi and Artis cannot control this game. They are too rude. I just hate them.”
He offered to go with Kalabaw’s 4 but Kent was still obsessed about Penner outlasting him.
Mike then said he’d go with Jeff.

Mike: “It just takes two people from Tandang to realign with the Kalabaw tribe then they would be 6 strong. Unless God himself appears live before me and speaks to me, I cannot follow Pete, Artis and Abi as long as I have some assurance that Jeff and Carter aren’t going to switch over to the old Tandang tribe. Because if RC and I go this way while Jeff and Carter go this way then, what happened? Nothing got gained.”

This and the baby steps strategy explain Mike’s vote against Penner. With Carter and Jeff indeed going with Tandang, it would have been foolish to flip.

Jeff and Carter talked it over and they realized that going with the yellow tribe against Penner would put them at the bottom yet they chose to go that way.

Jonathan after pledging loyalty again to Kalabaw, had a confessional: “If the people that I believe are going to vote with me are really not going to vote with me, if all of this has been smoke, then I’m a terrible judge of character and I don’t really deserve to stay in the game. I do believe that Skupin, RC, Denise, Carter and Jeff are going to vote with me. They all mean it; I believe they do.”

Once more, Jonathan forgot that people could be lying. Jonathan is a terrible judge of character because Kent and Carter were then shown telling Pete they were still on.

Kent: “I’m at a cross roads. I’m either going with veterans players, people I don’t want to win this game, trying to ride them out, or I’m going to go with the Tandang tribe and vote out Penner but then I’m at the bottom. If you treat baseball with disrespect, you are going to get bit in the ass and I know that if you treat this game with disrespect you’re going to get bit in the ass too so, with all humbleness, I say that the decision on who goes home tonight is going to be heavily based on which way I go and who I carry over to the other side. I got to protect myself because whatever move I make, it’s not going to sit well with either tribe.”

Unfortunately for Kent, the sun came down while he talked about his crossroads, symbolyzing the end of his game.

Tribal Council

First Jeff noted the history made by Tandang and by Denise.
Denise was happy to survive one more time
Skupin said the fractures in Tandang were natural but that they still pulled off the wins.
RC said it got pretty bad but that families fight sometimes.
Abi said she had been close to RC until the betrayal.
RC said she still didn’t know how she betrayed Abi.
Abi mentioned the idol clue.
Peter smiled when they accused each other.
Asked if this fight could cause people to flip to Kalabaw, Lisa mentioned that they would simply be voted off at the end by Kalabaw.
Kent mentioned that the 5th position in Kalabaw is better than 6th or 7th on Tandang.
Lisa countered that you’re weaker after flipping because you’ve shown you can’t be trusted.
Pete said that players usually don’t like returning players.
Lisa said she was concerned by Denise and Malcolm’s alliance and that they too could jump over and avoid being the dog that’s kicked to the side of the road.
Asked about the idol, Pete said he thought Matsing’s idol was gone. He added he felt he had a target on his back.
Kent told Jeff that they were still scrambling because they didn’t know exactly who was going home.


Not taking any chances, Penner played his idol. It wasn’t wasted:

Abi voted: Penner
Lisa: Penner
RC: Pete
Artis: RC
Malcolm: Penner
Penner: Pete
Pete: RC
Skupin: Penner
Denise: Penner
Carter: RC
Kent: RC

I wrote down the votes as they were revealed at the end of the show because the pattern is fascinating.

Abi and Pete shared a smile as RC walked away.
Jeff sent them back to camp with a warning: “Three people got votes so it would appear that it is anybody’s game.”

The Story

It takes two, Skupin said and this season has really focused on the pairs:

The first one, outlined in the recap, is Macolm and Denise. Their story dominated the premerge and, while Denise’s immunity win still kept her in the viewers’ eyes, they faded in the background after the merge.
Tandang’s power alliance of Abi and Pete exchanged smiles at the result of the latest TC. They think they’ve gained control but this could be their last occasion to rejoice.
Then we have Carter and Kent who thought were in control but are now at the bottom of the Tandang totem pole just because of their fixation on Penner.
The next known pair was RC and Skupin and while the vote broke the pair, I believe it was broken the moment RC said she was 50-50 on flipping. Skupin couldn’t stand the idea of staying with Tandang so he ditched his partner and found a new pair. It wasn’t shown like so many other things about Skupin’s story but the vote pattern showed us exactly who is his new ally: Lisa. These two hopped on with Denise and Malcolm and managed to stay hidden within the split vote strategy, because of the split vote strategy. Can an alliance of four remain hidden long enough to gain control of the game? To answer this, we have to look at the story of the season:

The Rise of the Phoenix

Mike had a key quote at the beginning of the episode: “I fell in the fire this far in the game 24 seasons ago.” I believe this explains the editing choices made during the premerge and tells us the outcome of the season. In Australia, Mike had a tremendous premerge story, so good in fact that “Filipino Mike” could never top it so the editors didn’t even try, hiding him instead.

This way we can read Mike’s story as if it ended in the ashes of that fire on the banks of the Herbert river only to rise again on the same day, 24 seasons later. Mike is being portrayed as the Phoenix, the mythical bird, and he has now returned to life after falling in the fire. (We have seen quite often an eagle fly by during the season and that’s the link, the hint to Mike’s story.)

Mike’s strategy is to play with one partner: It just takes two. However, RC disappointed him when she was uncertain about the course of action. All she considered was going to Kalabaw but that would have put Mike and her at the bottom of their pecking order. We also saw that Lisa was disappointed with RC when she continued the fight with Abi: “We aren’t one big happy family.” Mike needed a partner, Lisa was worried about Malcolm’s offer so they probably agreed to team up. That’s what their votes told us. We will need to see how it’s explained down the road but I believe that, out of all the pairs that have been revealed, the most important one is being hidden…for a very good reason.

The Characters

Artis: This sour man is unpaired , editing wise, even if we know he is close to Pete and Abi.

Jonathan: His first “Punch” was only a jab: His play of the idol saved him for now but it has once more isolated him. The lone wolf is the ultimate “Free Agent” and which way he goes will decide the game…at least the play of the game because we have a pretty good idea that he won’t go with Kent or Pete’s sides. Jonathan can only find salvation, at least temporarily, by aligning with four of the five that voted against him this time! Another fascinating aspect of the last vote.

Pete and Abi: The rude pair should get what is coming to them shortly. I thought RC would outlast them but her story was transferred to Mike instead. The only question I have is whether this pair goes before or after the other failed pair:

Carter and Kent: They completely miscalculated because of their fixation on Penner. They could have been in charge of the alliance of 6 with RC, Skupin, Penner and Denise but they forgot two important factors: Denise wasn’t going in an alliance without Malcolm while Lisa has more strategic importance than they thought. The whole story tells us that Penner will get Kent first. Appropriately, Kent now has 2 strikes against him (2 TCs where he wanted Penner out but failed) so he should be punched out on his next swing of the bat.

Malcolm and Denise: Malcolm’s story was gravely hurt this week because of his close association with Pete. It would have been much better for him if the editors hadn’t picked him to tell the audience about the plan to boot either Penner or RC. The plot turned RC, a likable player, into a victim and winners are never shown booting “Victims”. They are always shown booting “Dumb Players” or “Villains”. Can Denise survive without her partner? Of course she could and has for 2 important rounds in Kalabaw but, editing-wise, she is linked to him so her story should fall short. It will be a great, an historic journey but it won’t give her the title of Sole Survivor even if we have heard that she’d be unbeatable in the Final Vote.

Lisa and Mike: This is the winning pair! Lisa had a tremendous episode and her interventions at TC show that she is a force to reckon with as far as the game’s strategy is involved. I think Penner will dearly regret not talking about strategy with her, She is also very well liked so she has it all as far as jury appeal is concerned. I’d certainly declare her the winner except for the manipulation we have observed in her partner’s edit. Her story is very straightforward, the only hidden aspect being her “church lady” character. Malcolm mentioned it but we haven’t heard her talk about religion.

The editors manipulated Mike’s story so much that it caught our eye before the merge, before we fully realized what angle they were using. The “Dog that Didn’t Bark” may have been used as a wink to Tina’s story but that was only a side effect. To have waited to show Mike until the day of his “rebirth” reveals a long term plan that can only lead him to victory. Another funny side of it is that, by his own admission, Mike is on a level playing field now with the rookies. He’s “lost” his veteran status that put such a huge target on returning players’ back. Now, can he convince Kent of this? I have to believe he does because Mike will Win Survivor: Philippines.



"RE: Survivor Phillipines - Episode 7: It Just Takes Two"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-05-12 at 05:54 AM
Here's my bit on Episode 7. This was an excellent merge episode as expected! It was great to see almost all of the remaining players pretty much highlighted and relevant to the episode (even Carter was a part of it, as he was an individual immunity winner) At times it felt like part 2 of the first episode, as there was lots of focus and narration from the returning players, as well as from our 2 celebrity players.

The recap basically gave us a synopsis of the three main storylines that began from each of the 3 starting tribes and are now still in play within the merged tribe. The Matsing story went from being the demised tribe, to a story of survival for Malcolm and Denise. The recap continues to highlight Malcolm and Denise, even when the aren't the top players in the coming episode. We are meant to remember their story and their connection - which is very good for them.

The Tandang story was that of the terrible 3 (Artis/Pete/Abi) vilifying Mike and RC. And we heard Artis' confessional about Mike doing nothing for the tribe. Not looking good for Mike and RC, but this also set up why we saw the various factions considering to team up Kalabaw members. The Kalabaw story was about Jeff Kent and Jonathan. Jeff's big decision was to keep Jonathan and "he ditched his plan"

RC - Sad to see her go. She was a great narrator and had an accurate depiction of what was going on in the game. The only thing is she needed to swallow her pride and appease former Tandang a bit more. She had a great edit (like many first jurors have gotten) and she appeared poised to have legs to go far, although I did note in my ep5 recap that she could also be set up to be booted at merge (good call ;) ). It was great to see her and Abi finally discuss their conflict at TC, even though it was not resolved. Hopefully this will continue to play out in Ponderosa (which are very enjoyable clips already, as RC is such a fan of the game and a good sport about losing)


Carter - Pretty much ignored until he one immunity. But kudos to him for outlasting in that challenge. Although once again, we see that he is relying too heavily on his only main alliance which is to Jeff. At this point it doesn't even matter if he might seem as a possible boot choice to threaten his alliance. If one of his alliance mates (assuming Denise might still be, while Jonathan is not) goes first, he won't have much left to bank on. He's tied his game too closely to Jeff, and as I'll state next, that might be the quickest of the stories to bring to a close.

Jeff Kent - Jeff's game has now been reduced to getting Jonathan out of the game. The episode started with him stating that he hoped he made the right choice keeping Jonathan (from the last Kalabaw TC) to him swinging back to gunning for Jonathan once the tribe's merged. We did not see this choice provoked, and gameplay-wise this was foolish. Why would he flush-out-the-idol/blindside Jonathan at a point in the game when he had his trust and could have possibility had Jonathan & his idol to shield you in an alliance. He's lost Jonathan and any chance at idol protection, leaving him as a part of strong pair tacked at the end of a shaky alliance. Doesn't sound like an ideal position to me. I think most viewers would have seen Jeff's behavior as erratic, or paranoid, at best. I think it was short-sighted and the beginning of his end.

Jonathan - We continue to see Jonathan narrating the events as he sees them, and he's seeing them pretty accurately. Of course, we the exception of not knowing whether to trust Jeff/Carter. Although now after the vote, he will be clear about it. His confessional about "not deserving to stay in this game" if mistakenly trusting them, may be all too prophetic for him. I think there may be a chance for Jonathan to redeem his a gameplay a bit. But can he do enough for endgame, likely not, his edit just isn't tied to much else than his battle with Jeff.

Mike - Mike came back on the radar for the merge episode. He got to tell us that he is surpassing his time he previously spent on Survivor in Australia. In confessional, he said we are all on equal playing field, setting the stage for the merge. And once again, it seems to me is narrating the story and not his story. We saw Mike "lie" twice in this episode. When he stated to Jeff that Pete had spoken 4 words to him, this simply was not true, as Mike was initially in an alliance with Pete. We also saw him NOT vote along with RC. Yes, we don't know for sure that he lied to RC about changing his vote to Penner. But once again we weren't shown Mike's viewpoint on making these decisions. Even when back on the radar, Mike's edit is missing something - not the attention production would give to a winner. Especially when we are hearing such thoughts from other key players.

Artis - Artis had a good showing at the Immunity Challenge and was shown during the discussion to bring in Jeff & some Kalabaw votes for RC & Jonathan. He gave us the quick recap of the voting plan after the Immunity Challenge, yet still it seems like he's on the outside looking in. He's not relevant to the story.

Abi - Very little seen of Abi, but she was around in the mix of things. It was apparent that she was able to sit pretty and let the guys in her alliance do the talking. Is she actually able to play it cool when she needs to. Well compared to what we've seen of her in past, she can. And she did her part in the Immunity Challenge. She may outlast her alliance, but she cannot win the game.

Peter - A mild episode for Pete. We got to hear another dig from about Mike not having a brain, and some narration around the merge feast. He also stated that RC would not go "Tandang strong" in an alliance and we saw him in scenes work with others to make sure the vote would be directed her way. While he comes across as cocky and not as likeable, we are not seeing him as a stupid player. He was correct about RC not being with former Tandang, and he was wise to point her out as a primary target to Jeff. We saw that he was pivotal to get some Kalabaw votes to split the voted and flush out the idol in the process, and it all came to fruition.

Malcolm - was highlighted as being a challenge winner in the recap. Will this continue with Individual Immunities? He was shown reconnecting with Denise, confirming to us that this alliance is still intact. He had the wherewithal to notice that Lisa caught wind of his idol and he had a direct discussion with her about it. While he was able to make it seem like it was heart to heart, his main intent was to secure his secrecy of the idol and it appears he did. He was also a key part of the discussion to do the split vote between RC and Jonathan. While it appears that Malcolm has his head in the game and that he has good strategic and social sense to play wisely, the question that comes up regarding him is: Will Malcolm try to be all things to all people? And will this be likely to cave in or take him to the end.

Denise - Again we hear in recap "every step is an opportunity to turn things around." This is the mantra to which we are to view Denise. And wouldn't that just be a lovely winning mantra too. We got to see Denise too with her Individual Immunity win. Not as prominent as others in this merge episode. But with her II win, and her moment connected with Malcolm, we are still aware that Denise is in this. Even though she was likely brought in on the plan about how the votes would be split between RC and Jonathan, she was out of the fray of what went down. We continually see flexibility in Denise her thoughts and actions. With first stating that she's stay with the 4 Kalabaw, to wanting to reconnect with Malcolm, to then making a decision to stick with the majority and keep herself safe and not a target. This is how you get to the end in Survivor.

Lisa - Interestingly, Lisa is now part of all 3 stories that were highlighted in the recap. She was part of the Tandang story as having been pulled into the original alliance replacing RC, and she had been vocal to have RC be the first to go (and she was). And as of tonight's episode, she is tied to the Jonathan/Jeff Kent story, as she too has an identity that could be revealed and Jonathan is aware of this. More importantly she is now tied to the Malcolm and Denise story. We heard Malcolm state his intentions to remain aligned to her and Denise till the end, as well as Lisa's perspective and astuteness to take it with a grain of salt. We also heard Malcolm say she would be hard to beat. AND we heard Jonathan state she's "a non-threatening person that could be sitting in the final 3" These are fantastic endorsements for her.

While I'm still betting on Denise, I have to give big props to Lisa. She certainly was the star of this episode. Not just with airtime and ties to storylines, but she she showed strength in her social game (loved her scene with Malcolm) and sound strategic perspective at the first TC for the merged tribe (to which she was sitting smack dab in the middle). She is clearly getting an edit beyond her star status (which is more than I could say for Jonathan, Jeff, and Mike). I would love to see Lisa win, and watch the finesse it would take her to get there.


"RE: Survivor Phillipines - Episode 7: It Just Takes Two"
Posted by Round Robin on 11-06-12 at 05:35 AM
I think Abi is a little b!tch and Artis and Pete are a$$holes, and I'd want to tear my hair out if any of those 3 foul balls won. But given the edit they're all getting, their villainous tendencies are being well exposed and none of those wastes of good oxygen are likely to get close to the final, and if they do we could be going to Sue Hawk city all over again at final TC.

"Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-10-12 at 06:24 PM
Recap
After the two tribes merged, Tandang had a 7 to 4 advantage…
<Skupin: “I never made the merge before and, with numbers? Even better>
…While everyone was settling in, Lisa found Malcolm’s idol.
<Malcolm: “The church lady, who hopefully has a heart, found it.”>

With the tribes merged, Penner went to work, convincing Skupin and RC to turn on their old tribe.
But, unfortunately for Penner, Jeff wanted to take out the former winners.

At Tribal Council, Penner wasn’t sure of his alliance and decided to play his idol.
His instincts were correct: His alliance had turned and his ally RC was blindsided.

The recap was again manipulated to underline Skupin’s story. First, he told us once more that he is in a merge for the first time and then he is included in Penner’s allies. It was Penner, Skupin and RC that were trying to change the game but Jeff twarthed the plan. No mention of Lisa’s role or Malcolm’s or Denise’s. They somehow got included in the group that went after the returning players and the likable RC.

There Are Cracks


Penner went directly to Jeff for answers, telling him that he had blown it, that they had Pete if they had followed his plan.

Jonathan: “Does it hurt to get betrayed? Yes, of course it does. Why? Because you are left out of the secrets. There are secrets that are being talked behind your back. And the things that you trusted (a shot of Denise inserted right here) wasn’t true.”

Penner then asked Denise if she voted for RC.
She told him she voted for him.
He asked why.
She told him it was her own strategy adding: “It could blow up in my face.”
Jonathan dismissed her.

This is a terrible montage for Denise: She is on screen when Penner mentions she couldn’t be trusted, she mentions her plan could blow up in her face and she is seen somewhat stammering, marking her as one of the wishy-washy players that Kent blamed for the plan’s failure.

Jeff: “Penner’s played his idol, He doesn’t have anymore power that way. We are going to do our best to win the individual immunity or at least not let Penner have it…I gave up a lot pf power and authority when I voted with Tandang tonight.”

Ya think?

Then, Skupin had a talk with Jonathan: “I can understand how you feel but, I know you wouldn’t throw in the towel but don’t throw in the towel. There are cracks. There are cracks I am telling you. I am not going home after you…We just have to wait for somebody to screw up, waiting for a crack the get exposed. They are there.”

This little encouragement session defined Skupin’s game from the beginning and probably to the end. It didn’t explain his vote at the last TC but it certainly outlined his strategy. You don’t need to have control, you just have to wait for the craks to get exposed.

Jonathan: “I am not resigned to going home. There’s no quit in me but one way I can get myself further is to take my foot way off the gas pedal, climb into the backseat, put a blanket over my head and hope they forget that I am here for a while but they have betrayed me so all bets are off. I have no alliances…everybody is equal, they are all ready to die.”

Dangrayne – Day 20

Lisa had a confessional while Jonathan went fishing: “Everybody is so galvanized against Penner because they really don’t want returning players having a second chance, and they feel very strongly that they want Penner and Skupin gone first and second. For my game, I want to stay with Tandang but I have no qualms about making this battle to win a million dollars a little easier if it’s within my power. Once Penner and Skupin are gone, Jeff, Carter, Malcolm, Denise and I will then target the ones that everobody doesn’t like, Artis, Pete and Abi.”

Lisa then went to get tree mail with Jeff.

Kent: “Pete, Artis and Abi are a team and they think they are running the game. I’m fine to break that up. Lisa; she’s so naïve and so soft and so nice but we may be able to jump on board with each other and carry this thing into a flip scenario where we flip ourselves from the bottom to the top.”

As it always happens on Survivor, the Reward challenge was going to split the teams in just a perfect way to get that done:

The Reward Challenge:

We had on the Yellow Team: Lisa – Jeff – Penner- Malcolm and Denise.

On the Blue Team: Artis – Pete – Abi – Skupin and Carter.

As for Jeff’s comments, I noted: “Lisa, slow in the water…Skupin is stuck in the water…”

The Yellow team won the reward.

Camp

Artis: “Man! I wanted that reward but, on the flip side, I’m here for the million dollars, I’m still in the game. I’ve been eating beans and rice for
21 days. Beans and rice for 19 more days? Not a problem for me.”

Abi started talking numbers with Carter while Skupin was listening.

Pete: “Abi’s got a big mouth. When Abi leaks information, that’s very dangerous. So, she’s like a puppy you have to take care of.” He told her they could keep Skupin to go after Kalabaw. Then Pete’s confessional continued: “Abi is kind of immature. She thinks that everybody is out to get her and I wish I could vote her out but I know that if she is in a final three, she’s not getting any votes.”

The Reward

Denise: “It was a great group to have on the reward (one could say it was the group the producers wanted to see make it to the end!) They are a pretty positive group that has meshed together well. It was nice to be with them.”

Lisa had a thought for Skupin left back there with those that always find a way to be upset after every challenge.

Malcolm: “There is a bit of the good versus evil dynamics going on in the tribe right now. The evil three being Artis, Abi and Pete, and the rest of the tribe considers themselves the good guys!” Lisa talked about having to kiss the behind of the three while Jonathan said he hated that they acted like tyrants. Malcolm’s confessional continued: “It’s one thing that Penner is trying to take advantage of; turning the vote against one of the three instead of himself.”

Jonathan: “It’s easy for me who has his head on the chopping block to say: “You got to make a move.” But I am saying it and if it can save me for just one more vote, I’d appreciate it and I think I can help you guys get on control of the game.”

Lisa: “Cetainly, the idea of battling it out at the end with 4 other worthy opponents is such a noble choice but I am discovering that I am not just trying to get to the final 5; I’m trying to win which means I first need to get to the final 3 with as many people who aren’t going to get more votes than me as possible. That’s just how you get ahead. The same rules don’t apply in the game of Survivor as they do in real life.”

Unfortunately Lisa, this was a terrible moment to show your schemes. The group had just mentioned the good versus evil dynamics and then the nice, naïve player tells us she would go to the end with the evil ones. That could be enough to make her evil in the eyes of her future jurors and the audience.

Dangrayne – Day 22

Lisa: “I anticipate that, after Penner goes home, someone will wake up and realize that this is the time to do a 5-4 alliance.” (Denise, Malcolm and Peter were shown NOT waking up while this was being said. The one that was awake was…Skupin who was shown fishing at the time) “It makes more sense to me and Skupin to go to the end with Abi, Artis and Pete cause they have made so many enemies and they have made so many hot head emotional moves that have ticked people off. I have a plan that assures him (Skupin) that he does not need to scramble and make alliances with someone else that is going to promise him the world because I am going to promise him the universe.”

This is the key confessional of the season: Lisa, who couldn’t fit in at the start, thinking she wasn’t good at this game has proven she does fit in and is good at the game but she will give the game to Skupin. He won’t have to scramble which he never has, he just has to follow the game as it falls in Lisa’s control.

Lisa told Skupin about her plan which involved blindsiding Malcolm who had an idol. She had to convince Peter that Tandang should stick together and eliminate Malcolm.

Skupin (solo): “Lisa is now in this game to win it which is great because she is my closest ally out here. A lot depends on who wins immunity. The only way to be safe is to win immunity. You are going to see a dog fight out here today.”

Jonathan had a confessional after cutting in Lisa and Skupin’s conversation just as Michael was asking what happens if Penner won immunity: “I never won an individual immunity challenge, never won, so maybe it’s high time that Johnny did and stick it right in their damn faces and say for once in three times, I won individual immunity.”

It’s interesting to note that, even before the tribe turned to Michael as a potential boot candidate, the editors decided to make the audience think he could be going home. There was no need to set it up so early unless the editors wanted the viewers to think it shouldn’t be Michael, it should be one of the rude kids.

The Challenge

The first round was indeed a dog fight: Abi (!) led after the first obstacle but it soon came down to the men. Pete and Jeff claimed the first two spots while Jonathan barely inched out Michael for the third and final spot.

The puzzle looked like a race between Pete and Jeff much to the delight of Artis, Malcolm, Lisa, Carter and Abi who were shown encouraging the duo. Then, “out of nowehere” Jonathan took the lead and won! Michael, the one that had the most to lose if Jonathan won immunity, was not once shown rooting against him. The audience wasn’t supposed to agree with the ones encouraging Pete and Jeff so it’s important to note that Michael wasn’t included in that group. We only saw him scratching his head after Jonathan won immunity.


Jonathan
was all smiles after returning to camp for his interview: “I don’t know what to say about that challenge. Maybe that was the best thing I ever did in my life!”

Malcolm: “Going into the challenge, all everyone said was “Don’t let Jonathan Penner win immunity. Of course, Murphy’s law states that has to happen so I don’t know why I am so surprised (he) won immunity today. It just threw everyone’s plans for a loop. Now we have to do a scramble to figure out who we are going to get rid of instead of Penner.”

That’s twice now that Malcolm was chosen as the spokesperson for the rude kids, the villains’ alliance. That’s not a good sign for him.

They all agreed that it had to be Skupin.

Jeff: “My vote is going to be for Skupin tonight because Penner kind of done the unthinkable. He’s won two challenges in a row: One on my team and one by himself so he just bought himself another three days of dead man walking.”

We saw Jeff telling Michael that he will be voted out.
Michael just listened while preparing the clam he had caught earlier.

Lisa told Peter that Malcolm had the HII and how she found out about it. She concluded that he had to be blindsided.

Peter: “That whole plan of getting rid of Malcolm and this information about him having the idol, I got blindsided by that because I actually kinda trusted Malcolm. This plan right now is Lisa’s plan. Is it a good plan? Is it a plan that is going to be effective because Malcolm does have an idol and Malcolm is playing two sides? I don’t know.”

So, instead of blindsiding Malcolm, Pete leaked the information to him.
It was ironic to see that Abi wasn’t the only one that had a big mouth! Pete, probably jealous that Lisa had a good plan, gave away much more vital information.

Malcolm: “Pete confronts me about the idol so my first thought is to lie, lie, lie but already my heart is in my stomach because the rumors are out there: It’s going to come out eventually that I do have the thing.”

Pete offered to save Malcolm by going after Jeff.

Peter: “Malcolm freaked out and that right there was enough of a reaction to just kinda know, to look in his soul and know that he doesn’t have the idol. So, I don’t know what Lisa is trying to pull here.” Pete’s ego is so big that he can’t admit that Lisa was right. They go back to the shelter and tell everyone to eliminte Jeff. “The vote right now is Jeff who was going to be second anyway after Penner just to keep Skupin as a swing vote. Right now, Jeff is going home. He’s a nice guy, he’s played a great game but he’s a big threat and I want him gone.”

Since Peter was in control of the majority and he wanted Jeff right after Penner, it seems that Michael was never really in danger of going home this time. It was just edited that way to make the audience think it was the consensus. That is another good point in Michael’s favor.

Pete then told Lisa he only informed Malcolm that they knew about his idol.

Lisa: “Well…Malcolm pulled Pete aside and Pete was thrown off guard and wasn’t very good at convincing him that his name wasn’t on the chopping block so everything just hit the fan.”

Peter after reassuring Lisa that she wasn’t in danger, had a confessional: “Playing the mastermind role is definitely hard work. It isn’t easy and you never really know you are the mastermind. It’s just at the last moment before tribal that you know if you have everybody and if it’s solid.”

The audience probably thought that it’s easier to be the mastermind when you are smart but it’s interesting that this candid admission matches well with the theme saying it isn’t good to be in control. The true mastermind is now Lisa and, even if she is good at it, she will find it hard to lead and win.

Jeff: “We were going to vote Skupin but now I find out they were gunning for me.”
He rallies Malcolm to the idea of eliminating Pete. A lot of scrambling ensued, showing that Michael was right all along: There are cracks! So many in fact that we were in for quite a Tribal Council.

Malcolm: “Everybody is going mad in the past hour. (He says something about Lisa and his idol but I can’t catch it) I will go to this vote with it in my pocket. If it seems close, I am playing it. My vote’s for Pete right now. That’s not the way I planned it at all. I was going for Skupin but it’s going to be hell tonight.”

Tribal Council

Jonathan reacted with a “right on” at RC’s entrance.
Asked about the feelings against returning players, Probst asked Michael if he felt pressure.
Michael said he did, adding: “When I came back to camp, it took a little bit of the pressure off when I heard some people talking
Malcolm laughed and explained that the little Texas girl threw him under the bus.
Lisa agreed, saying that the back up plan was Michael but that he had been a strong member of the Tandang tribe so she wanted to eliminate the biggest threat in the game, Malcolm.
Denise ageed with Jeff that Malcolm could be their 5th against Tandang. “Every crack is an opportunity.”
Pointing to Lisa, Jeff asked Abi if she was concerned to find out that one of your tribe members screwed the whole game up.
Abi said she had considered Malcolm as part of Tandang so it was “ludicrous”.
Lisa countered saying that they were willing to send Michael home.
Abi justified it by saying that Michael and RC were always on the outside. That Tandang “was always you, me, Peter and Artis.”
That shocked Malcolm so Abi belatedly tried to include him but Probst stopped her: “It may be too late for that, Abi.”
Abi told Lisa she had made a mistake because Malcolm was stronger in their alliance than Michael.
Lisa then talked about flushing out the idol. “I brought it up to make the Tandang stronger. I was playing both sides but my allegience was to the original alliance.”
Malcolm then simply pulled the idol, saying he would play it that night: “There’s too much chaos tonight, I am not going home.”
Jeff wanted to know if there were any other idols so Abi obliged (!)
Penner, the necklace around his neck, thought that this was awesome so he wanted to ask something: “It looks like there could be 6 people here ready to march forward in this game. That means keeping Skupin and I in that 6 at least for a while.”
Lisa made her own proposal to the people she had given her word, keeping the majority if they went with plan B.

Probst said there were two pitches but I wonder if Jonathan’s 6 weren’t at least partially the same 6 as Lisa’s. His vote for Abi sure made it look that way since it didn’t help Kent.

Pete thought they were coming after him while Kent said his name had been thrown around also as were Malcolm’s, Penner’s, Skupin’s, Lisa’s and Abi’s.
Kent concluded by saying it was pretty fun
Probst said this was the most interesting and complicated TC ever and, for once, he wasn’t only hyping.
It was time to vote and RC smiled when Penner walked by her.

Malcolm and Abi kept their idols so Kent was voted out.

After snuffing Jeff’s torch, Jeff said that this vote may go down as the biggest blown opportunity ever.


Even if the camera showed Malcolm, it wasn’t clear at that time who Probst was referring to but the audience would have preferred to see Pete get eliminated. Had Malcolm kept quiet about the idol and simply used it, Pete could have been going home.

The Story


It’s rare that the theme of an episode is so clear but the craziness that followed Jonathan’s IC win tells us that “There Are Cracks”. That theme leads us to believe that too much scrambling isn’t a good thing. It’s better to stay calm and wait for an opportunity to expose someone.

If so then the only two main characters shown remaining calm were Skupin and Denise, the two players that talked about cracks.

The Characters


Pete
: No, being the mastermind isn’t easy when you are this dumb. I noticed though that Lisa wasn’t angry with him when she learned that he let it slip about the idol so he must have some redeeming qualities that the edit isn’t showing. From the viewers point of view the blown opportunity had to be missing the chance of eliminating him. Since Malcolm was the one shown regretting the result then we can say that the ground was set for us to say: “Malcolm was a good played but he blew it”…just like Kent blew it last week…just like Pete will probably blow it soon. All the ones who felt in control at one point will blow it if this season goes according to the themes we’ve outlined.

Since we don’t need to consider Artis, Abi or Carter anymore, that leaves us with the 5 players that have great stories. Stories that could lead anyone one of them to victory. Some may think that I’m trying to convince you that I am right regarding my views about the winner but I not even sure if I am right myself! I’m just trying to point out some manipulations in the story that make me think Michael will win,
So, with that in mind, let’s look at how I see the remaining players’ chances:

Malcolm: Not only did he regret the result of the vote, we have seen him twice now acting as the spokesperson for the “evil” alliance even if he sees himself being part of the good guys. Since he is a fan favorite, the editors are laying the groundwork for us to understand why he won’t win.

Jonathan: The dead man walking could have found enough of a repreive to make it all the way to the end. Maybe seeing him receiving advice from Skupin at the start of the episode was a way of showing that he was picking up the story that Mike had set up from the beginning of the season: Go with the flow and look for cracks. The editors also clearly connected him with RC, the first juror as if we were meant to think she’d vote for him in the end. His story could be to show that he has more power now without the idol than with it

Unfortunately, we also saw Jonathan trying to rally people for a last minute change of plan when we were being told that scrambling wasn’t the best thing to do. We need to keep our eyes on Jonathan even if this string of episodes looks like a final tribute to one of the great characters in the serie’s history. We all know that the former mutineer cannot keep his foot of the gas pedal!

Lisa: She certainly is becoming a power to be reckoned with. She played this episode as if she had all the cards in her hands, having not only a Plan A but also a Plan B, C, D and E. Her first thought was to accept the elimination of Jonathan and Michael which would have led to a final 5 with Malcolm, Denise, Kent and Carter. Then she wanted to go to the end with Abi, Peter and Artis so she targeted Malcolm, breaking her promise not to tell anyone about his idol
.
What I found most troubling for her chances was that she was heard saying that the same rules don’t apply in Survivor as they do in real life at the moment when everyone was talking about going with the “good” people. Her story lines are reaching their conclusions too early: She started as the outcast thinking she wasn’t good at this game but she has fit in well for a while now: She’s the church lady that everyone likes. Now we even see her as the mastermind that applies different rules to this game than in real life. The season could be the story of how the nice Lisa managed to win this horrible game by becoming ruthless but it looks more like she will overplay her hand, costing her the game. In addition, even if the plan failed because of Peter’s big mouth, the editors left in Probst comment that Lisa had screwed the whole game. But then again, he was talking about Abi’s game so maybe that’s not so bad!

Denise: After a great premerge story, it looks as if Denise’s story is being ignored. It’s not necessarily a bad thing since she is still connected to the themes of the season by her intervention at TC but I didn’t like that the editors showed us Denise when Kent mentioned wishy-washy players, when Jonathan said he couldn’t trust “them” anymore and when she stammered to find an explanation for voting against Jonathan. Her great story could blow up in her face. Lisa said people had to wake up but Denise was shown sleeping at that moment, something I consider a clear hint that she won’t find her way to victory.

Michael: When Lisa said people had to wake up, Michael was the only one shown in action, doing a basic Survivor task: Fishing. His endeavour earned him a clam but could be foreshadowing that he will claim the big prize. His story continues in a straight line from his opening confessionals: He has followed the pace of the game, at first only concerned to help his tribe win challenges. Then, at the merge, he had a rebirth and, since then, he hasn’t scrambled needlessly; he simply waited for the cracks to get exposed. No one complained about Michael after the reward loss even if he could have been held responsible so that could be another indication that his postmerge story is truly a rebirth.

It really looks like Michael will keep his cool all the way to the end, following his closest ally as she takes control and pays for it in the end when she does hand him the “universe” she promised him.



"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-10-12 at 09:22 PM
I love your analysis and assessment, very well done. From what I saw though, it looks like Jonathan's comeback story. I think he's going to align with Skupin and they'll go as far as they can together. I don't think its a tribute or anything. The recap was all about Skupin, and Probst said, "at the merge, Penner went to work" Probst was giving Penner all of the credit, didn't even mention Skupin as doing anything worthwhile. I think both returnees will go very far, I just think the story is Jonathan's comeback story. He has had an extremely amazing edit.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-10-12 at 09:22 PM
I meant the recap was all about Penner...so sorry lol

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-11-12 at 02:38 AM
Welcome aboard mrtricky,

You certainly could be right but I want to point out that the recap had to mention Penner: He was on the chooping block, he scrambled and he played the idol.

Skupin, on the other hand, could have been totally ignored but he wasn't: Reaching the merge was seen through his eyes and he was part of Penner's allies even if he voted to eliminate Penner. Now that's the kind of manipulation that attracts my attention.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-11-12 at 03:01 AM
But remember at the tribal council, Penner was already pandering to the jury and as he walked by RC they showed her smiling to him, as if for the rest of the game she'll be impressed by his game, made it seem like she'll vote for Penner in the end. They didn't have to show that scene at all either, but they did. There is tons of manipulation going on around here lol its pretty crazy. How about a final 3 with Skupin AND Penner? that would actually work due to some of the evidence from this past episode.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-11-12 at 03:49 PM
Yes, I wrote about the two exchanges between Penner and RC but winks and smiles are terribly difficult to interpret. They always showed the jury smiling when they entered the TC area and saw Terry Dietz wearing the Immunity necklace.

So, what does this connection mean? 3 possibilities:
- Maybe RC votes for Penner.
- Maybe the two vote together (for Skupin? Lisa?) and influence others during FTC.
- Maybe nothing.

One thing I didn't mention was the animal imagery of the "Kalabaw", the water buffalo, being "stuck" in the mud. The image certainly implied that a Kalabaw was going home (even if water buffaloes enjoy the mud) but does it mean that the whole Kalabaw tribe is doomed? I don't know but the blown opportunity applies to that tribe so, if it relates to him at all, it can't be good for Jonathan.

What I do know is that the 2 dolphins swimming together are an indication of the importance of pairs. Which one though? Denise and Malcolm or Lisa and Skupin. Since Lisa dominated the latest episode, I think the future is brighter for the Tandang pair.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-11-12 at 05:03 PM
They're also setting up possibly that Lisa ends up letting her heart get in the way. She is a christian woman, she's a nice lady. Next episode it looks like she breaks down due to the mean bullies attacking her for exposing everything at the tribal council. I think over time she'll start to realize that Tandang is imploding, there will be no hope for that tribe and that she doesn't deserve to win by how she is playing, so she'll keep around the good guys. It just feels that way to me. And those two dolphins, it did show how important pairs are. But Malcolm's game is now history, his story is coming to an end because everyone knows he has an idol now, he's in worse shape than Penner now. He NEEDS to win immunity now or play the idol because as soon as he plays the idol he's in trouble. So I think Denise will be more in the forefront now and Penner will take over Malcolm's story as the new pair....So Denise and Penner and Lisa and Skupin can end up being the powerful pair. Or maybe the two dolphins mean that Penner and his necklace are a long term pair. Either way I think a Kalabaw is winning simply because did you see the yellow school of fish break apart in the ocean? Tandang is the yellow tribe that will break apart..Animal imagery tells it all.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-11-12 at 05:13 PM
Will break apart? Tandang already broke when they eliminated RC and from that school of fish emerged the 2 dolphins. We could go on and on about the animals but the best imagery is the following:

Yellow cobra = Peter
Spider = Lisa
Eagle => Phoenix = Michael.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-11-12 at 06:11 PM
Something tells me this season will end with a ton of disappointment. Like the wrong person will win or something.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by SpotTheDiffference on 11-11-12 at 10:01 PM
I guess that depends on one's definition of "wrong". I like a number of people this season, Malcolm and Jonathan especially. I think that they've played the best game so far. I wouldn't consider Lisa or Denise to be "wrong" winners though.

Denise has certainly proved to be a very resilient person, weathering the decimation of Matsing, and then of Kalabaw pre-merge. She has been playing a very under-the-radar game after the merge, but I assume that this is only because it's her best game plan right now. She's not in the line of fire, and she doesn't need to make a big move (yet).

Lisa, on the other hand, is making waves, sometimes unnecessarily so. The plan to boot Malcolm is premature and doesn't seem to be well thought-out. On the other hand, it is making the game more exciting to watch, especially for a casual viewer like me.

A "wrong" winner to me, would be Artis, Carter, or Abi, who have been completely under-exposed, or are just plain unlikeable.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-11-12 at 11:33 PM
Well said, SpotTheDifference!

I think there are several players still left, some more likeable than others, that can merit a win - and still leave viewers satisfied with the season. And we still have a bunch of episodes left!

Regarding Denise, yes, she has proven to be very resilient. And she may be (arguably) the best edited under-the-radar player the show has seen. With the demise of Matsing and her assimilation into the nuKalabaw, the audience has been privy to see why Denise would choose an UTR strategy and be rewarded for it. Plus, if you add in the factors that she is both a good physical and social player, then UTR is totally working for her game at this point - as the target can be put on other good physical and social players.

Regarding Lisa, she does seem to be making waves. Is it unnecessary though? Sure, the plan was premature, but even she knew this (as she intended to wait on the plan to boot Malcolm, but Jonathan's II win changed that). Her plan hastened, and she didn't back down. In Survivor seasons past we've seen many others not make their "big" move and miss their opportunity to advance in the game. I believe it was well thought-out for Lisa, as she could afford to come onto the radar as she wasn't a threat, and in the process she knew she'd be taking the target off her closest ally, Mike.

Lisa has also stated that she is a huge fan of the game. We saw that she was playing UTR initially (or even as stated by Mike, not playing at all) Although she did this, it was not as strategy, but as a weakness in her, as she was questioning her ability to play this game. Unlike Denise, Lisa feels she has to prove something to get her not only into top 5, but to have something to warrant her the win. We can only wait and see how this will immediately pan out for her. But if she does get to the end, she now has some fodder to contrive her story regarding the breakdown of those events into one of her "big" moves in the game.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-11-12 at 11:35 PM
I'm with you, Spot. I don't think we can have a wrong winner this season. We know that Abi, Artis, Carter and Peter won't win. I even think that Peter, had he been the winner, could have been edited as a good winner. All he would have needed was a few more "Abi's a goat" confessionals, a good premiere and a few examples of RC playing too hard.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by SpotTheDiffference on 11-12-12 at 01:29 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-12 AT 01:30 AM (EST)

IMO, we can have a wrong winner, if Mike wins. He's too under-edited, his story is starting a bit too late, and all we've heard about him is how bad of a player he is. However, if Denise/Lisa/Malcolm/Jonathan ##### people off towards the end game, I would expect Mike to absorb some of the "against" votes at the FTC. At the moment though, he and Carter are extremely good choices for the made-the-F3-but-got-zero-votes edit of the season.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-12-12 at 08:59 AM
If you are going by quantity rather than quality then you should be much more worried about Denise who has been clearly under-edited sionce the merge. A great story premerge that had to be told is getting completely dropped by the editors.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-11-12 at 11:40 PM
Great to see you sharing, mrtricky!

Yes, Jonathan, has been getting a great edit. And him surviving the past 2 episodes is really giving reason to re-assess his chances to make it to the end. I find it tough reading Jonathan's edit, as he is both a returning player and such an articulate narrator that he will always be shown. That being said, I do feel he is getting more manipulation in his edit now that the tribes have merged (pre-merge - his was such a straight-forward story). In terms of edit he's going to be a tough read, so I think I'm going to continue to revert to gameplay perspective as to what his chances are at making it to endgame. I mean who in their right mind would take Jonathan to the end?!


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by SpotTheDiffference on 11-12-12 at 01:34 AM
I think Jonathan is getting the "doomed hero" edit. He's likeable, he's strategic, and he's proven to be good at challenges. He also probably won't win unless he wins all immunities until the F3. I think we're meant to root for Jonathan, and give him the fan favorite vote (which he definitely deserves from the way he's playing the game).

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-12-12 at 11:29 PM
I think Jonathan probably doesn't make it to the end, but I also think that the editors want us to think that big time. Malcolm I thought was going to get the fan favorite vote easily, but lately he's just a narrator for the "bad people". So to viewers that is bad and now I think the only one that can get fan favorite is Jonathan which I hope happens because he deserves to win something. Everyone i've talked to loves Jonathan, and I think that was the editors intention all along. Have you noticed that he hasn't gotten any negative confessionals from anyone? That's suspicious! But he has no final three ties which gives away that he doesn't win. Although that look at RC at the jury is interesting but it was probably all fodder I think we can all agree on here though, that Jonathan is the ONLY castaway left this season that would sweep a jury vote win, correct? The ONLY one that would get all the votes...Thats why ladies and gentleman, he does not win we should all mourn appropriately.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-13-12 at 00:28 AM
Jonathan receied negative confessionals after making that deal for reward. Both Carter and Katie complained about giving up the rice because Jonathan couldn't catch fish.

And, at this moment, Jonathan could get all the votes because he's been the target. He'd lose votes if he got in control and started targeting people.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-13-12 at 00:50 AM
but they'd still vote for him because he even said he doesn't have alliances anymore. So they have to expect being voted out by him, not being betrayed by him. When you're a lone wolf who cares if you vote someone out? everyone is against you, so when you vote them out, they should respect you for getting to them first....not like Lisa who is in an alliance with everyone...Jonathan is just doing what Michael is now, he's the one that is really going with the flow of the game, Jonathan stole Michael's story.
Also, in that fishing scene, i think it was great for Jonathan because it showed that he was the only one working, the only one being a loyal tribe member by trying to feed everyone. Katie, Carter and Kent werent doing anything, why should they complain? they should go out there and try to find fish if they want to complain..Showed what a team player Jonathan actually is.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by michel on 11-13-12 at 08:33 PM
"they should respect you for getting to them first"

They never do.


I believe that we wouldn't have seen the failed fishing trip if Jonathan had been our winner. There was also Denise's confessional that was an indirect shot at Jonanthan: "This gives us motivation for the next challenge" she said but they lost that challenge.


"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-12-12 at 11:36 PM
Another thing about Jonathan real quick. Look at his confessionals. He gets the close up shot of his face while hes' talking, and look how he's sitting. The camera falls back and you see him sitting with his feet crossed over and he's narrating the story as well as being a central figure within it. You know who else got that treatment? Boston Rob. In every confessional he was posing like he was the king on his throne and he was narrating the season story. So it makes sense for Jonathan to win. And also, I think that before production started that they had every intention to expect Jonathan to make the final 3. Out of all the returnees he's put on a tribe that he can control compared to Matsing and Tandang that were full of rough personalities. They didnt' bank on Kent being so anti-returnee though. From the get go they were trying for Penner to win, by giving him tribemates like Carter that he can manipulate and look at last week's challenge. He had his back up against the wall yet they provide a puzzle challenge? That's his go to challenge. Just saying that Penner was the chosen one and thats probably why they are making Skupin invisible because he's the returnee that got the success yet didnt earn it like Jonathan would have.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by jobgirl on 11-15-12 at 03:02 PM
I thought it was very interesting when Jonathon talked to Lisa about what the audience would like. He was absolutely right! It was the first time I ever remember the editors including a comment about the viewers although surely it's not the first time players have talked about it. I don't know what it means, but I did find it fascinating. I was a little surprised and disappointed that Lisa voted for Penner despite all the 'seeds' he planted with her and how rude Abi continues to be to her.

"RE: Episode 8 - There Are Cracks:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 11-15-12 at 04:32 PM
Interesting, persuasive & seemingly effective, but step back away & look at it. Penner was trying to be a "Director" for a teenage Blair. Lisa is a 49 year old mother of 3, I think kids are 20-23, & she has strong Christian values. She has also written numerous, what I'd loosely call "self-help" books. She's aware of what Penner was actually trying to do, & that any 2 of the mean 3 would be more beatable by her in final 3. I was surprised she didn't jump ship, but it may turn out to be a great move, earning points with Tandang members on the jury, which should be 4 - 5 of the 9 member jury, possibly plus Malcolm, in the jury. Penner might have done better with the truth ... what is best for you that doesn't violate your beliefs, along with Tandang not loyal to RC, nor Skupin, nor likely to be with her. I think Lisa could have done just as well if she had gotten Tandang to vote out Carter, keeping the older members of Kalabaw plus Malcolm with Denise as possible allies with her & Skupin.

"Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by michel on 11-17-12 at 04:58 PM
Recap
From the beginning of the game, Lisa was an outcast.
<Lisa: “Maybe I am not able to play this game.”>
As of the merge, only 2 people had discovered her secret; Penner and Skupin who had just become her biggest ally in the game.

Lisa and Mike’s only problem was that everyone wanted the returning players out next.

At the immunity challenge…Penner won immunity and Lisa decided to make a big move, attempting to save Skupin…by throwing Malcolm and his idol under the bus.
But, at a crazy Tribal Council, Lisa took a lot of heat for her big move and it became clear there were two major alliances each with their own immunity idol.
In the end, Tandang stayed strong and got their way.

The recap clearly defined the two main characters for this season: Lisa and Mike.

The Fulcrums

Night 22

Mike: “Tribal Council was the most amazing experience because Lisa made her big move to save me. So, from going from: “It’s you”, to: “It’s not you” in five minutes is a sense of relief. The game could have been flipped around with 1 or 2 more votes for Pete but whether Pete went or whether Jeff went, they are two of the most outspoken people about getting rid of returning players. Having one of them go is a win-win for me either way.”

It’s a good sign that Mike received the first confessional after that “historic” TC as it was called. It also shows that Mike already has his eyes on flipping the game against the former Tandang. He isn’t clueless afterall! Now that he has gotten rid of the most vocal rival to returning players and that the other is in danger he could be in a truly win-win situation.

Abi thought Skupin had voted against her but Jonathan set her straight; it was his vote and he did it because he was PO’ed.

Jonathan: “That was the most incredible Tribal Council I have ever been a part of. It was crazy! I don’t even know what the hell happened.” Carter soon told him that it was his vote against Abi that sunk Jeff. “I’m the one who blew it?” asked Jonathan. His confessional went on: “There was no plan; nobody knew what was going to happen. So, did my vote screw it up? Even if I had voted for Pete, it would have only tied it up so, I voted for Abi and no we will see where I stand. I’m dead man walking anyway.”

We then saw Lisa apologizing to Malcolm who was extremely gracious, understanding her game decision.

Lisa” “I tried to make the big move, tried to play the game like a real survivor and it’s just not me. I lied and I betrayed and I broke promises and Malcolm has been full of grace and mercy. I love this game but I think it’s too big for me. It’s bigger than me.”

Mike talked about a win-win situation, Jonathan said he blew it while Lisa said she isn’t good enough for the game. So? Mike wins? It would be nice if it was that simple. It’s great for Lisa’s chances that no one blamed her. She is still a “suspect” that we have to consider in this whodunnit of a season!

Jonathan: “There are five original Tandang and, if they vote together, I am done...” These words were accompanied by a shot of Jonathan dropping the machete, a sign that he will fail

“...I’ll probably go home at the next immunity if I don’t win it. But, there’s been such division, so many cracks in that five and their identities as people is so varied: You have two parents who are trying to play a straight up, almost Christian game in Lisa and in Skupin and then you have three incredibly tight players who are playing some other game; what I call a bully game. My hope is to play on those divisions, to appeal to Skupin’s and Lisa’s hearts.”

Right here, we heard Jonathan telling Lisa she made great moves, unprecedented in the history of Survivor. People were starting to admire her and love her, he added. Jonathan then psychoanalyzed Lisa, the child star and she thought he knew her.

The camera angle put us, as viewers, directly on Jonathan’s shoulder as he looked and talked to Lisa. It was a clear example of the Jonathan camera: What he says, what he sees in people is exactly how the editors want us to see those people. Like in Cook Islands; Jonathan’s point of view was the one that mattered then and so is it now.

Lisa: “I know Penner is always scrambling to find a way to stay but he struck something really, really deep, this internal conflict…My whole life has been based on public perception…If I do the wrong thing, will I still be ok? If I am not liked…can I survive, not being, little miss Perfect?”

The Challenge

Abi wasn’t picked by either side and she didn’t get to pick a team to root for and follow on reward.
Jonathan was the one to figure out the challenge, looking for all 4 bags of balls at once. It enabled his team to start shooting before Artis could make his way on the course. Jeff certainly wanted us to know that Penner’s strategy had been the key for the red team’s victory.


The Reward

Penner, Denise, Malcolm and Pete were off to donate school supplies and toys to a local village.

Jonathan: “We came in carrying a crate of toys and school supplies…amazing kids...This reward is extraordinary…It seems to be the happiest community I ever walked into.”

Malcolm: “Right after I graduated, I taught elementary school in Micronesia for a year…I enjoy working with kids…This means so much more to me than pouring drinks to girls in bars. It really made reconsider what I have been doing with my life.”

Jonathan: “The food was great. Amazing break from the game although I hope we can talk strategy over a beer or two.”

As far as strategy went, we only heard them mentioning that they wanted to have Skupin and Lisa with them.
Denise said they had to be gentle with them while Malcolm added that Skupin was treated horribly by “them”.

Carter, strangely, had the confessional to tell us about their strategy: “Right now, the lines have been drawn and it’s former Tandang versus everyone else but last night at Tribal Council, they made a mockery of Skupin. I feel like he’s been mistreated and they mistreated Lisa so we are trying to get Skupin and Lisa in with us because they are going to play the biggest role in deciding which alliance moves on and which starts getting picked off.”

Camp

Pete: “Losing a challenge like this is awful. It’s really demoralizing. I need that energy. At least, Lisa doesn’t really know what’s going on after tribal Council where she got obliterated and Skupin: It’s ironic how someone I wanted to get rid first or second, now I am forced to work with. We need the majority right now…We are back to Tandang. They are going to trust us more than they trust Penner or anybody. So getting them close and keeping them close is definitely what we are trying to do and making them feel comfortable.”

Abi must not have gotten the message because she was still after Lisa whom she accused of being gullible and naïve (!)

Artis, in his confessional, echoed what the audience thought: “Abi is such a loose canon. She thinks she knows so much about the game and so much about people in general. I don’t know who told her that but she needs to shut up before she screws everything all up.”

Lisa: “Very interesting how things split after the challenge today. My thought was that we really had some time. We could reevalute and stay solid, the Tandang 5 but I get back here to the island and Abi was terrible. Maybe it makes sense to go with the other alliance but I made this grand stand at Tribal Council about having loyalty to Tandang and Skupin so, to flip to Kalabaw, looks from the outside as really awful but in time it probably makes more sense. I don’t know what to think now.”

The Immunity Challenge

Like Jeff said, it was a two horse race. Skupin and Pete were going very quickly.
But then: “Disaster; Pete loses two balls on that one.” (!)
Skupin won immunity.
“Way to go, Skupin” said Malcolm.

Artis received the editors’ kiss of death type of confessional: “At tonight’s tribal council, unless something goes wrong, we can get Penner out and we can actually, for the first time in a long time, come back to camp, take a deep breath…we can relax for a while.”

Yes, Artis, we all realized then that you would be having plenty of time to relax!

Day 25

Jonathan: “I didn’t win that immunity challenge so I know my days are numbered if I can’t put something together. The problem is the numbers. I need 5 votes if I want to have even an ice cream’s chance in hell of staying in the game.”

Abi: “I wish I would be voting off Mike today but we need him for the numbers. Penner is a bigger threat but Mike is really annoying. Penner is actually charming, a little too smart for his own good so time for him to go home.”

I wonder if this wasn’t taken from last week’s time frame. It wasn’t needed back then because the editors wanted us to think Mike could go but why would Abi say she’d like to eliminate Mike now? Had she said: “I wish I could vote off Mike but he won immunity” that’d be one thing but she says it’s the numbers that were preventing her from doing so. Last week, the numbers saved Mike, not this week.

In the woods, Denise was explaining her thoughts to Malcolm and Carter, saying that Abi would never give the idol to Artis.

Denise: “Right now, I have my alliance with Malcolm and the former Kalabaw tribe; Carter and Jonathan. The goal tonight is to get rid of one of the original Tandang members. Break that little empire up and then continue to just turn this game. The plan very much hinges on Skupin and Lisa. If we can’t get the numbers; Jonathan is going home.”

Jonathan was then seen relaxng in a cove, talking to Lisa. He described himself as a storyteller and asked her what she thought would be the story of this season.
“Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? Who are the underdogs? Who is the audience going to be rooting for?” He went on to say the audience would like Lisa but “wouldn’t be happy to see that you are helping these three guys…I hope you and Skupin do the right thing…You might be the fulcrum character.”

Since this is the first time a Survivor talks directly about the story being told, I think we should look carefully at what he just said: The audience will want Lisa and Skupin to do the right thing BUT ONLY SKUPIN DID! Lisa voted to eliminate Penner and even if her parchment had multiple little hearts, maybe that is the key to determining that Mike wins over her. On the other hand, the editors presented this episode as Lisa’s emancipation, the time when she liberated herself from the rude members of Tandang and many in the audience will not have even noticed that she voted against Penner. It’s that kind of manipulation that we usually look for in a winner’s favor but then they let us see her vote. Lisa may be the fulcrum of the story but not of the game, at least not this time.
One thing we can clearly get out of this is that Penner’s role is that of a narrator, a storyteller.

Lisa: “I like Jonathan, I learned so much from him out here but man! My head is spinning. I still want to be loyal. But is that the old Lisa?”


Jonathan: “I am planting seeds with Lisa because I am playing my ass off here but I cannot panic. I have to be calm, cool and collected. I hope that I got through to her. Whether that changes her vote, I don’t know but I only need one of them: Either her or Skupin.”

Jonathan told Mike that he was the fulcrum vote and he was. Does that foreshadow that Jonathan will be the vote that tip the scale in Mike’s favor in the end? On the other hand, Jonathan did say that with Mike’s vote they were sure to make it to the F5: If we have learned one thing from Survivor editing is that they probably won’t make it both to the F5! Which one? The storyteller or the fulcrum? I’d have to go with Mike.

Mike: “Jonathan is interested in creating something but Lisa and I agreed on day 1 that we will always tell each other the truth. She orchestrated a pretty big move the other day in order to save the Tandang alliance, in order to save me so, I want to play this game with Lisa. I have to make sure that, if I make a bold move, she’s firmly on the side that I am choosing.”

Mike then asked Lisa: “How can we stay loyal to people that aren’t loyal to us?”
Lisa said that the bigger picture would show that she was swinging both ways, being indecisive.
Mie simply said that the bigger picture was that they had an alliance to the very end.

That sentence, that connection, coming after all this talk of storytelling and fulcrums, should put them both firmly in the picture during the last Tribal Council, facing the jury.

Lisa: “From the beginning, I’ve been thinking that the most important thing was to keep the Tandang numbers strong because I want to stay loyal to Tandang…But if Tandang isn’t loyal to me, am I being exactly what Abi accuses me of being? Gullible and naïve.”

Tribal Council

Lisa said that the fallout of the previous TC was mostly internal (which shocked Kent). She added that people were graceful to her.
After Abi asked her if she had shown grace, Lisa said she felt more grace from the people that she was against.
She told Jeff it was as ign of maturity and experience, adding: “I believe there are more Survivor fans on the other alliance.”
That really irritated Abi which Jeff noted.
Abi simply said she thought she showed grace as well.
Artis said he wasn’t surprised that it was still Tandang versus Kalabaw because Tandang had one of the most powerful tribes in Survivor history and that it was playing out as it was supposed to play out.
Denise countered by saying things could shift.
Artis wanted to be clear that he knew he could be blindsided.
Asked about Mike’s necklace, Jonathan introduced the theme of fulcrums to TC, saying someone could tip the scale one way or the other.
Mike described the feeling of having immunity which he never had in 12 years. He added: “I originally came out for the money but then the game got bigger than the money.” He concluded by saying he loved Lisa’s move.
Lisa said that the game was bigger than her, meaning she had to play with her heart.
Jonathan told Jeff he appreciated someone that played the game.
Denise didn’t know if the numbers would shift but she was hoping that everything gets turned upside down.
Abi said that Tandang had the numbers but that she wasn’t really sure about Lisa.
Jonathan found that Abi’s remark was incredible, Peter scratched his head and Jeff said: “Wow!”
Lisa said those words should force her to make a decision.

Skupin and Lisa were the last ones shown in the voting booth as if they were both deciding the outcome.

When Jeff mentioned the 5th vote against Artis, RC was shocked, Jonathan was relieved, Skupin was repressing a smile, Abi was fuming and Denise was winking at a smiling RC.

Jeff concluded the evening saying: “Once again this game just turned.”

The Story

With Jonathan’s talk of fulcrums, it’s interesting to note that the episode had three fulcrums: One for the audience, one for the story and one for the game.

Jonathan was the audience’s fulcrum: We saw things through his eyes and it was a pivotal episode. The good guys versus the bad guys, IN JONATHAN’s eyes, were the players we cheered or jeered.

Lisa was the story’s fulcrum: This episode was about her emancipation from Tandang EVEN if she voted with them. There is a feeling of unfinished business here that is troubling. Will Lisa get as much grace this time or will she be seen as the indeciseve player she herself described? For one thing, Abi won’t be showing anymore grace!

Mike was the fulcrum of the game: His vote decided the outcome of the Council but does it relegate him to the role of spectator at the end or has he just assured himself of a spot in the Finals? The big picture, we were told, included an alliance between Mika and Lisa to the very end.

The Charaters

Malcolm: In this most important episode, Malcolm was reduced to his true role in this season: The likable young man on a “coming of age” journey. He had no confessionals leading up to TC and Jeff didn’t turn to him either.

Jonathan: He is seen as a threat, a smart player that could indeed win this whole thing but Jonathan feels more like the narrator and the deciding voter instead of the winner. Did he blow it? Story-wise, to me, it felt like he did. All his talk are about surviving one more Coucnil isn’t bad but, with such a large role, we should be hearing him talk about what he thinks he’ll need to do to get to the end.

Denise: The edit could still be pointing to her victory but having no confessional during what will certainly be the most interesting reward of the season is very troubling. Also, her strategic confessional was really only narration as she wasn’t shown acting on what her alliance needed: She wasn’t shown talking to either Lisa or Mike. The story isn’t being presented from her angle anymore. When Jonathan asked who were the underdogs this season, Denise’s name would have popped up first during the premerge but not anymore. The Act I underdog has become just another player in Act II. We can’t forget that Russell and Malcolm both said she wins it if she makes the Final 3 but that sounds more like doubt for somebody else right now. But the game’s turns are part of her theme, a new occasion for her so she still has to be considered a front runner.

Lisa: It’s hard to say she will not get enough votes when she is received with so much grace by those she throws under buses. She tried to play the game like a real Survivor and she said it was simply not her. That and her confessional after her little session on “Dr” Penner’s couch tells us she is clearly the journey player, the one that will “learn more about (herself) in those 39 days than in 39 of (her) previous 49 years”. We can’t rule out all the manipulation to make this episode look like Lisa’s emancipation though and she is clearly the one the audience is supposed to root for. So, I’d say she’s the favorite to win but I won’t be putting money on her.

Mike: He said it: If Pete or Jeff had left, it was a win-win situation for him so, with Pete’s imminent departure, we should feel more confident about his chances of winning. With Lisa’s stock rising once more in this episode, he still must be seen as a longshot but he was the deciding factor in this vote and he got nice reactions from the jury even if they can’t be sure it was his vote! It’s remarkable that someone who was supposed to simply go quietly with the flow of the game, made the biggest move up to now and it wasn’t even noticed! When Lisa made her big move, the “poop hit the fan”. When Mike entered the waters, we didn’t even hear a splash. A rip entry gets maximum scores from the judges!


"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by suzzee on 11-17-12 at 09:12 PM
Carter, strangely, had the confessional to tell us about their strategy

Strangely is right, it was almost jarring hearing game thoughts coming out that mouth.

Good catch on the out of place Abi confessional about her wanting to vote Mike out. Although, we're talking Abi here, only her idol matters.


Nice job michel, you are now a Fulcrum agent.


What a lovely bunch of coconuts.



"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 00:00 AM
If Penner's role is that of a storyteller, then that is very very good for his chances in the game simply because he's been the story teller ALL season long. So for them to use him in that role the whole season up to this point, who would take his place? No one else has had that role, everyone else has just been a supporting character in the story. Its been told from his eyes, why would they use him in that kind of role only for him to be gone the last few episodes of the season? Then who is the narrator after that? Tells me Penner lasts a long time.

"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 00:10 AM
And also, you could also interpret the whole Abi/Skupin coconut to head scene as that of Abi later on being responsible for Skupin's ouster...one could interpret it that way as well...They didn't have to show that.

"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-18-12 at 02:02 AM
If Abi would be responsible for Skupin's ouster, they would edit her in a more positive way to show she has the ability to perform moves like this. She's been edited as the most bats**t crazy person in years, if not ever, and she wasn't given the credit when RC was booted so what would make anyone think that she would ever get the credit if Skupin should happen to get booted?

As much as I love watching Penner on TV, it'll take a miracle for him to make the final jury and I just see too many strong players ahead of him to let it happen.

Not long for the game, based on the edit: Carter, Pete, Abi

In between, probably outlasts the first three mentioned: Penner, Malcolm

Likely in final 2 or 3 (still unknown which it is): Lisa, Denise, Skupin


"The Secret of Penner's (Survivor) Success"
Posted by dabo on 11-18-12 at 01:12 AM
Thing is, Penner has been a fan favorite since he first showed up in Cook Islands. And basically the reason for that is not that he is the greatest player or anything like that, it is that he is a great character and knows how to play to the audience.

Follow.

Jonathan Penner is an industry insider, television is his business, it is his career, in a sense it is who he is. And he is relatively good at it, but the main point I would make here is that it makes up who he is, how he thinks anyway in his daily life.

He had an adult acting career that commenced about the time Lisa Welchel's child actor career concluded. Outside of that acting career, he has had a writing and sometimes producing career as well. This is his industry.

I'm not saying he plays to the editors or producers or anything like that, only that he understands playing to the audience, it is his nature, it is how he operates on a daily basis in his professional career anyway. That is why he is loved, why the Survivor audience loves him, it is his nature to play to the audience.

Follow s'more.

The last three episodes he has been the ultimate underdog. They were always gunning for him. He played his HII to save himself once, he won II to save himself again, he finally broke the Tandang control of the game to save himself a third time.

Regardless of whether he wins or loses the game, Penner weathered the Survivor perfect storm. It has been a great story arc, but that is all, there are more stories to come.



"RE: The Secret of Penner's (Survivor) Success"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 02:02 AM
He has a new story arc now..he has been accepted into the "good guy" grouping and they've taken control. it'll be fun to see what happens.

"RE: The Secret of Penner's (Survivor) Success"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-18-12 at 02:05 AM
Storytellers often don't win the game, and Penner has been shown to be fighting for his survival instead of showing potential end-game play. I believe that if Penner makes the final jury, we'd hear a lot more strategy from him and his thoughts on how he'd work the jury. Instead, I think all his talks with Lisa is, in a way, preparing HER for the jury speech, whether she's successful in winning or not.

"RE: The Secret of Penner's (Survivor) Success"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 02:19 AM
They've shown him close to Skupin and Lisa though, those are the people with which he is close to. And in the early episodes he said he would love to have Carter at the end with him, and Carter is still there, so he had a little of that. He also in previous episodes said, "I am playing to their heart strings" trying to convince them to have him stay by using the emotion against them, and he has been in major focus every episode. They only show the people that are truly relevant, and look at the last couple episodes, more and more people have been getting less confessionals. Malcolm's story is ending, he hasn't been a major focus in awhile...normally if a person is about to get voted out, they'd start distancing themselves from the story.

"RE: The Secret of Penner's (Survivor) Success"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-18-12 at 02:23 AM
Troyzan had a disproportionate amount of attention placed on him as well because he made for a good story and he also had good relationships with several of the people that did make it to the end, but he didn't last to the end himself.

"RE: The Secret of Penner's (Survivor) Success"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 02:23 AM
plus, yeah his premerge story was rather weak because he just found the idol, and didnt' have to be shown due to them never losing, then Kalabaw started to lose and then they go into the merge down numbers. Then Penner was a target from the beginning of the merge onward, and now he's finally in a power position an in a majority alliance, now he's in a great position. So they just focused on him fighting for his life to show how deserving he is of the title, and now that he's in a different position, they won't show him as a fighter for survival, they'll show him being a mastermind the next few episodes, his story has changed dramatically three times now.

"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by michel on 11-18-12 at 02:40 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-18-12 AT 02:49 AM (EST)

Cook Islands was also told through Jonathan's eyes. I even called it the Jonathan Camera.
- He liked someone or admired their skills; that person had a good edit (Yul, Ozzy).
- He thought someone didn't know the game, that player was edited as a dumb player (Adam, Candice)
- He didn't like someone; they had a bad edit (Nate and Parvati whose edits sank after the mutinee when Jonathan got to know them).
- Jonathan didn't talk to someone, that person didn't get airtime (Becky).
Still, jonathan was gone by F7.

Narrators rarely win. Another example was Austin in Panama. He was the narrator inside the La Mina alliance but once they became Gitanos, his role faded and he left.

Other notable narrators:
- Brandon; Guatemala.
- Cirie and Courtney; Panama
- Stephen; Tocantins.


"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 05:23 AM
But Jonathan's role isn't fading right now. Its getting stronger, he got people to vote with him this past episode, thats a good thing. Also, in episode 8, the one when Kent left, Jonathan got credit in the recap for things that he didn't need to get credit for. Probst said for instance, "at the merge, Penner went to work". Probst didn't have to say that. Also, Penner has been having a ton of winner quotes this season and has a lot of doubt. I know you dont' think Jonathan wins, but you can't ignore the evidence of all of this that I've mentioned. You like Mike, but Mike got a coconut to the head this past episode, what was that about? I'm just saying, the story might be seen through Jonathan's eyes, but he is the star. Malcolm and Denise's roles have been fading drastically lately..I think they go first.

"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-18-12 at 10:27 AM
Regarding Denise, because we were shown on two occasions where another contestant pointedly said "if she's in the final three, she'll win", one of two things will happen:

If there's a final two, I think she will be booted in 3rd place.
If there's a final three, I think she wins.
In both cases she 'gets the vote at F3'.


"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by michel on 11-18-12 at 01:52 PM
Certainly, Jonathan's role isn't fading right now but he is peaking too early in my opinion. Anyway, the winner's story is told by the merge. That's why the most important episode to determine the long term players is the premiere. The premerge then sets their long term connections and finally the merge episode often helps us determine the winner.

Jonathan, pre-merge, had a very one dimensional story: He was the lone wolf who found an idol. He received no end game connections at all and had a very ordinary merge episode, one in which he told us: "I’m a terrible judge of character and I don’t really deserve to stay in the game..." Jonathan has what really looks like a distraction story.

As for Mike, I don't "like" him. I don't even really like his story. Lisa and Denise have had much better stories even if Denise has been ignored lately.

What I noticed about Mike was that he had an amazing premiere that gave him end game connections and explained his strategy all at once. Then, inexplicably, he disappeared for the whole premerge until he had an amazing merge episode. The idea of a Phoenix rising from the ashes came to me. If the editors are really thinking of making a story arc spanning 24 seasons (don't forget that, unanimously, the Outback players said that Mike would have won that season had he stayed in the game) then I cannot help but think it was done because Mike wins this thing.

I look for manipulations just like when Boston Rob wasn't given a confessional after hearing that Matt had eliminated Russell. It told me that Rob wasn't there to beat Russell; he was there to win it all. Or when Parati and Natalie were never shown complaining about all the rain in Micronesia and Samoa respectively.

That's why this episode looked so good for Lisa: It made it look like she was liberating herself from Tandang when she actually didn't. The casual viewer must be sure that she voted against Artis. Unfortunately, next week is set up with Lisa still unable to break up with Tandang so the manipulation doesn't run as deep as I thought. The viewers will be set straight as to how she voted and they will see her as being wishy-washy, probably enough to be undeserving of the win.


"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by mrtricky19 on 11-18-12 at 04:01 PM
Jonathan has had tons of manipulation. Remember in episode 5, when Dawson was voted out, he had a confessional about "In order to win this game I have to make big moves". Why did they show him saying that? In episode 6 when Katie and Carter were talking about their bodies not being able to be hold up through 39 days, they cut to Jonathan who has a confessional saying, "the deprivation doesn't bother me as much as these young kids". Then in episode 7 at the merge, he plays his idol, showing that he is well aware of what he is doing, but at the beginning of the episode he says, " I never know when people are lying, that's my flaw, and if I can't tell that then I dont deserve to win this game" then later on he plays his idol, showing that he could read when people are after him. So he's had an unbelievably manipulated edit that makes it seem like he's the winner. That's what I see, unless something else is being told here that I dont' see. I think they haven't shown Mike because he is irrelevant. I just rewatched the last episode, and before tribal council, when its Lisa and Mike in the ocean together talking about what side to choose, Mike says, "its you and me to the end" then there was a very weird sound, like a comical sound or something. Go rewatch it and you'll see what i'm saying, it was like one of those sounds tht they put in when something doesn't happen the way it should. And they spent the whole episode on Jonathan and Lisa, and Mike ended up flipping the vote instead of Lisa..they could have told it from Mike's point of view but didnt...so that says it all.

"RE: Episode 9 - The Fulcrums:"
Posted by Arnold_Lorax2 on 11-26-12 at 10:08 AM
mrtricky you have laide out some reasonable arguements for a Penner win and I think that many people here are overlooking your comments because they think they already know the outcome of the season. They are reading the edit to suit some spoilers they may have heard or read or whatever. Good for you on your analisis.

"Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-24-12 at 07:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-24-12 AT 07:06 PM (EST)

Recap

From the moment Pete and Abi found the hidden immunity idol, they ruled the game with an iron fist.
They went into the merge with numbers…
…and took out their enemies one by one.

Everything changed when Skupin got tired of being at the bottom of their alliance.
At the last tribal council, Abi laid into Lisa…
…but, in the end, Lisa stayed true to her alliance and it was Skupin who joined the rebellion, taking out Pete and Abi’s biggest ally.

With their alliance crumbling, can Abi and Pete survive?

The recap really cut through the crap that we were served last week: Jeff clearly told us that Lisa stayed with her alliance and that Skupin was the real player. I noted that he described Mike’s move exactly the same way he sees Survivor: You’re at the bottom, you flip the game.

The Goat

Night 25

Abi: “Tribal council was a disaster basically. Seriously, what the (bleep). I thought we had agreed that Tandang was supposed to be strong and make a big move together.”

Meanwhile, Mike was heard saying: “If we hadn’t done what we did tonight, none of us would have had the chance at the mil.”

Mike then had a two part confessional. First at night: “Voting Artis out tonight was my first big move but I don’t believe you can win this game with just one big move. I believe there are several big moves that need to take place before the end of this game.” And then, during the day after we saw him agreeing to a Final 6 alliance with Denise: “Whichever way I go, I need to control this game as much as I can instead of letting somebody else determine my fate. It’s the only way I ever lived my life and it’s the way I’m going to play this game.”

Combine this with the recap and Mike is emerging as the mastermind of the season! All the silence of the pre-merge, the follower that went with the flow, the baby steps, that is now a thing of the past and Mike, the leader we knew in Australia, returned with determination.

The next segment began with a conversation between Abi and Lisa.

Lisa: “It’s hard to be in an alliance with Pete and Abi but I was never good at break-ups…A big part of who I am…is someone who feels comfortable to be used…The really good thing is that I feel like I am really taking control of my own destiny. I think it’s going to make a huge difference in the quality of my time out here and really, it sounds dramatic but, also for the rest of my life.”

This pretty much seals Lisa’s role as the journey player. In Survivor, many nice people have been used over the years. It’s very interesting that both Lisa and Mike talked about taking control but Mike’s control is over the game while Lisa is over her life. That’s the difference between the winner and the journey player.

The Challenge

The teams were randomly (yeah right) split into the 4 young players versus the 4 older ones.

In the first round, Carter proved to be faster than Jonathan.
In the second round, Malcolm forgot to flip a yellow drum, “opening the door for Skupin.”
Abi “flipped one from the other team” so Lisa easily won a point.
Jeff asked Abi if she understood what was going on and her answer was priceless: “No, not really.”
Denise was no match for Pete.
In a rematch between Mike and Malcolm, it was Mike that made the mistake: “Skupin flipped over the wrong one, the red team wins reward.
Before sending them on reward, Jeff had some fun with Carter who didn’t know the difference between manucure and pedicure.

The Reward

Malcolm: “We leave the challenge in a little boat then we get to this amazing little beach. We have massage tables, bathtubs, a picnic table…When I got here I sort of silenced the talk. The strategy behind that is that I am going to need to make a Final 3 or a Final 4 deal pretty quick and the people I want at the end are all sitting back at camp...”

Did Malcolm unknowingly just spoil the Final 4? Will it be all the older players?

Abi: “They came with platters of delicious food…Today, I feel like a princess…A queen!”

Pete: “It’s a pretty good feeling to be away from the game so that’s why I agreed with Malcolm not to talk about strategy today…The next challenge… I am going to be refueled and ready to kick some butt.”

Camp – Day 26

The players were already returning from reward and Abi told them all about it.

It had been a while (Cindy in Guatemala?) since we had seen a player get bashed for going on and on about their great reward. It used to be that people lied or avoided talking about the reward but nowadays the rewards are so lavish that everyone knows. It’s therefore strange that the players were offended by Abi’s talk. One thing that isn’t surprising was that the editors let us know that Abi had irritated the others.

Denise: “We were having a relaxing day and then Abi returned from the reward and it was like Urgh!”

Mike: “Normally, people are super gracious when they come back from reward but Abi’s downright cruel. She flaunted it, she wouldn’t stop.”

Malcolm: “Abi has all the social grace of a Mack truck. She has no understanding of how to talk to people.”

Then Abi said she was done with the cooking. She would eat but she wouldn’t do her share of the cooking anymore.

Denise: “You have lost your freaking mind, girl. Part of me thinks: That’s fine, let it ##### everybody else. Your time will come. I might not get to tell her anything until I write her name down in that tribal council when she’s finally walking out, I get to say: You know what: Whiners are wieners. You need to go home.”

I have a feeling that Abi isn’t going home so soon. She has been set up to be the decoy boot almost every week from now on but there are more important players to eliminate first and someone would be telling us about it soon.

Day – 27

Malcolm had a confessional after we heard him talking strategy with Mike: “With a pretty easy vote in theory coming up, my plan is the get a Final 4 set up today and kind of be able to coast after this vote until the end.”

Skupin told Malcolm it could be him and Denise but wondered who would be the 4th.
Malcolm suggested Lisa.
Mike said he’d check with Lisa.

Mike told Lisa about Malcolm’s proposal.
Lisa was pleasantly surprised.

Mike: “When someone wants to take you to the final four, you have to say, strategically, yes because, if you say no, you could wind up odd man out and, all of a sudden, you are on the chopping block.”

Lisa wanted to know his opinion so Mike said they had to make a pact with either Penner and Carter or Malcolm and Denise.
Lisa said she trusted Penner more.

This conversation between the two most important players of the last two episodes sounded like the key decision, the highlight moment that will be featured during the reunion to explain how the pair made it to the end.


Lisa talked with Penner in Mike’s presence.
Lisa told Penner that she wanted to go to the end with the two returning players.
Penner thanked her for the offer but said he was more comfortable taking care of one thing at a time. He added: “I am not interested to committing anything to anybody…not yet.”

While that was definitely Penner’s voice, the camera was standing behind Penner when we heard those words so it’s possible that he never said it exactly like that. For one thing, the voice quality was different than the rest of the scene. For all we know, those words could have been said right after the merge! The important thing though was that Jonathan didn’t want to accept a deal immediately after we heard that you had to take those deals or else you’d wind up on the chopping block. It made Jonathan look like an amateur at this game.

Jonathan had a confessional: “Lisa respects me and she said she wants to go to the final three with Skupin. It’s a great option but it’s too earloy for me to say who I should go to the Final three with. I will continue to keep them close and, if I get blindsided, more power to them. I will go out with my head held high.”

Sounded like Penner’s last words. He’s already written his exit speech!

Lisa: “Penner didn’t want to make that: “We’re true to the end” kind of deal. He said “let’s get rid of these two and see how it shakes down.” So, I think he missed an opportunity.”

The music took on a dramatic tone as Abi, Carter and Penner were alone in camp, Jonathan wondering: “Where is everybody.”

They, meaning Malcolm, Denise, Mike and Lisa, were making that deal.

Malcolm: “This is as serious a final 4 deal as you can make in this game. This isn’t just some quickie alliance where: Wham, bam, thank you mam! He’s gone, we are back on our own. I stuck my neck out…If it works out, it could be the best thing that’s happened to me in the game.”

Mike: “I committed a Final four with Malcolm but I am not too comfortable with it because he’s a gamer and that worries me. I felt I had to, I felt I didn’t have a choice. So, it makes me a little nervous. I want to be the one calling the shots so I am going to do my best to win the next immunity challenge.”

It’s strange that no one mentioned Denise and her chances to win. Is it because the editors are hiding the winner or is it because they want to prepare us for her lost, make us forget that she once mattered? I have to say that the editors have managed to make Denise look almost irrelevant which is pretty amazing considering her pre-merge build up.

The Challenge

Pete had a confessional that was inserted after Jeff gave them the rules of the challenge: “For me, it comes down to this challenge. Abi has the idol so, if I don’t win immunity, I am pretty much screwed so, all I can do is fight right now. Otherwise, it’s me.”

Peter didn’t even make it passed the first round; Malcolm, Penner, Denise, Skupin and Carter all beat him to the first post.
Skupin, Carter and Denise made it to the final leg.
In that leg, Mike had a lead late but Carter pulled it out and won immunity along with a bigger target on his back.

Camp – Day 27

Abi: “Today’s challenge was a really fun challenge however, I didn’t win it and Peter did not win as well so it’s basically, Peter, Abi and the hidden immunity idol. It’s like an alliance of three versus 6.”

With Skupin listening...

...Penner made it simple: “Split the votes 3 – 3 and if she doesn’t play the idol then we all vote for her.”

Jonathan: “Pete and Abi cannot win this game; they don’t have the numbers. There’s no reason to keep them around; their ship has sailed. Now, can somebody surprise me and play an incredibly stupid move? Maybe, but I honestly believe that all of us in the 6 are gonna stay strong so either Pete or Abi go home. Could it screw up? Yeah! But you could get hit by a car walking from your house to the post box too.”

Pete had a confessional after he talked to Abi about targeting Malcolm: “After the last Tribal, the whole game turned upside down. I went from the top of the pecking order all the way to the bottom but I am not going to give in and be like” OK guys! Vote me out. No! I’m going to try to get something going. Malcolm; he’s the biggest threat on the island, he has an idol and he needs to go home. We’ll be pitching this idea of “Get rid of Malcolm” to everybody, especially Skupin. He doesn’t think before he does things, he just jumps into it so he could be turned easily but all I really need is one person to flip.”

Lisa liked Abi’s plan but turned it down.
Carter told Peter he was in a pretty good spot.
Jonathan told Abi that he didn’t trust any of them because they had all voted against him at some point but he felt he had their trust. He was counting on the fact he had not betrayed them once.
Mike listened to Pete’s pitch. The music tried to paint a mystery movie moment while Mike silently listened. Then he said that Malcolm was “the biggest wildcard in the game.”

Mike: “I have a deal to go to the final four with Malcolm but now I am starting to rethink whether that was the smart thing to do or not because he is playing the hardest. Malcolm is a threat in challenge, he’s a smart strategic player and he’s liked by everybody. So, if I’m sitting next to Malcolm in the final three, I’m not sure I can beat him.”

Finally, he told Pete that he was’t saying no.

Mike’s whole story lies in these last three confessionals: He considered changing the plan to boot Malcolm so was he contemplating an incredibly stupid move like Jonathan called it? Can anyone say that booting Malcolm instead of Abi is stupid? Maybe the real stupid decision was made by Jonathan when he told everyone to write Abi’s name during the revote instead of Pete and maybe Mike only went along when he was sure she’d play the idol. Pete or Malcolm; one fit young guy had to go.

Mike didn’t jump into the plan like Pete said he would so we could say that everything Pete has ever said about Mike has been proven wrong but then he did jump into an alliance with Malcolm that he soon regretted.

What we do know is that Mike is looking ahead to the Final 3 like no one else in this game and that he has all sorts of hooks and storylines going into it. He is right when he says that Malcolm is the most likely winner at this stage but is he moving too fast? Is he forgetting someone? We need to be able to say no to these questions if we want to be sure that Mike is the winner.

Mike’s confessional went on: “The risk of changing it up again is that it could backfire. But, do I anticipate our current alliance to stay strong until the Final four and having a happy ending? It’s not that likely in this game.”

Malcolm: “Apparently, Pete and Abi realized that the easiest way to get someone to flip is to throw my name out there and run me over tonight. They just need one person to flop and I am going home. I have the idol but if nobody flips and I play that thing, I lose a lot of leverage moving forward. This is the trickiest situation about the idol that I have faced yet and I will have to keep my wits about me tonight, watching people and make the right decision., Otherwise, I’m toast.”

Right when Malcolm talked about the tricky decision, we had a shot of him looking over at a silent Mike as Jonathan went over the plan.

The image was meant to put doubt on Mike’s chances, telling the audience that Malcolm was watching him in particular. Of course, it could be interpreted the other way around: it could be telling us that Malcolm is smart enough to see through Mike’s evil plans but we have dismmised Malcolm as a winner long ago.

Tribal Council

Seeing Abi smile at Artis, Malcolm talked about jury management but right now, he was more concerned about staying in the game.
Pressed by Probst, Malcolm refused to admit it would be a good strategy to get rid of him.
Asked about it, Mike said he always thinks about the idol. He added: “At every tribal council there’s always an opportunity to vote whichever way you want.”
Asked about the feeling of going from Tandang never lost to beaten up, Pete said it wasn’t a good feeling but he hoped one person would flip.
That pleased RC.
Abi told Jeff she regretted the way she handled the last TC.
Jeff asked if any of it could be cultural.
Abi agreed, saying English wasn’t her first language and adding: “My attitude can be perceived as not the most gentle.”
Jeff noted that everyone was smiling at that.
Denise noted that she knew many non-English people that were still kind and helpful which Abi is not.
Abi said she’s usually loved so Jeff asked if she felt isolated.
Abi answered that she was emotional because Lisa didn’t forgive her.
Lisa set her straight by saying she forgave her but wanted to be with people that trusted her.
Abi said she understood.
When Jeff said she’d be great to take to the end, Denise replied: “If that’s the kind of game you want to play. You bring the deadweight, the unlikable person.”
Abi: “Wow! I didn’t know that I was unliked.”
Jeff: “I am starting to think that it is cultural…it was a sign, in our culture that you are full of it.”
Denise went on saying she wouldn’t want to bring someone like Abi to the end.
Abi asked her to stop. She added that she never had that much hatred thrown at her.
Denise said it wasn’t hatred, it was frustration. They argued back and forth, Denise repeatedly asking Abi to let her finish her trashing.

Before sending them to vote, Jeff said: “Any time there is somebody on the bottom, there’s this great opportunity to shuffle the game.”

While they voted, we heard Abi telling Pete: “That was brutal by them.”
He tried consoling her by saying she would be OK.

Abi played her idol. Mike went along with Jonathan’s plan so Pete went home.

In the end, Jeff encouraged Abi: “Your back is against the wall but…anything can happen.”
She thanked Jeff and walked out of TC so quickly that she forgot her torch and had to come back to get it!

Pete’s final words first mentioned Abi: “I felt bad for Abi…they ripped her apart.”

The Story

Now that we are coming to the end of the season, it’s clear that the season has been following Mike’s game all along. It was mainly told by Jonathan, RC and Lisa who were the main narrators and the audience’s compass. It was through their words that Abi, Pete and Artis were perceived as bullies and that Kent was seen as having an obsession against the returning players. But the flow of the story went step by step along Mike’s game. He was very quiet pre-merge where his only highlights happened by helping Tandang win challenges. That was exactly Tandang’s story: A great tribe in chalenges that didn’t get along. However, Mike was able to stay under the radar while RC was always pressing Abi, putting herself in position to be voted out early.

Since the emrge, Mike has been able to flip the vote to his advantage a couple of times. Once with Lisa’s help, once on his own. So we have to answer the questions: Is Mike moving too fast? Would it have been stupid to vote against the plan? Is he forgetting that someone else besides Malcolm could beat him in the finals? Is it stupid to flip the game on the 6? And will his idea of making many big moves hurt him like it hurt many schemers in the past? Well, for that, we need to look at the other players first.

The Characters

Jonathan: Jonathan may be proven right to have rejected the final 3 deal. After all, it’s the best way to avoid losing jury votes, something that could cost Mike dearly. But note that Jonathan himself told us that he would respect being blindsided. “More power to them” he said. Jonathan already gave us his final words and we know he will not hold it against Mike. Jonathan clearly missed an opportunity and the way the confessionals were presented underlined that. First, Mike told us you couldn’t refuse alliances, Penner then told us why he refused the alliance offer and then Lisa told us Jonathan missed the boat. It couldn’t be clearer: Sooner or later, Jonathan will be blindsided.

Malcolm: By his own admission, we were told that booting Malcolm wouldn’t have been a stupid move. Mike is right in saying that Malcolm is an extremely dangerous player and it would have been a waste to eliminate Abi instead of him. Elimnating Pete, on the other hand was a good trade. Pete is also smart and played hard and could have done well in challenges. Malcolm made the final four alliance but he didn’t say anything about his plans after that. That tells us he will fall short in the end, maybe missing out on the final 4.

Lisa: We were able to define her role as the journey player once and for all when she gave that confessional about taking control of her life. It had been opur contention all along but there was always something about Lisa’s edit that made us hesitate along with her. As she said earlier, she is there to learn about herself because she isn’t that good at the game.

Denise: If Mike is forgetting someone that could beat him in the end, then it would be Denise. However, her story has been dropped since the merge and she only served to trash Abi in this episode. Certainly, the audience was happy to see Abi put in her place but Denise was edited as going overboard. Pete’s final words carried a lot of weight and they remeinded of David’s words when he said that Zapatera was wrong to be dancing on Hantz’s grave. The point had been made when Abi started crying and asked for them to stop but the editors continued showing Denise wanting to make the same point again and again. It felt as if Denise went too far, making some (most?) viewers feel sorry for Abi and potentially losing some jury votes.

Mike: Looking at Jonathan’s story, it’s clear that Mike’s big moves wouldn’t hurt him. It would be accepted as part of the game. From listening to Malcolm then it’s clear that Mike wouldn’t have been stupid to move against him. As likable as Malcolm is, the audience would see that Mike had no choice. Denise’s lackluster post merge edit and her passive aggressive attitude towards Abi showed us that she isn’t the under the radar winner. Mike isn’t forgetting about her chances to win the jury votes because she wouldn’t be as liked by the jury as Swann and Malcolm thought she’d be. As for moving too fast, it’s clear that Mike kept his plan to himself, that he only entertained the idea but the way he was shown observing and listening told us he will strike at the right time and that he will make the big moves that he needs to win. And it wouldn't surprise me if he used Abi, the goat, to reach his goal.



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by dabo on 11-24-12 at 07:12 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-24-12 AT 07:13 PM (EST)

Denise repeatedly asking Abi to let her finish her trashing. quit interrupting her reasonable explanation of why other people react to Abi in ways Abi doesn't understand.

Fixed that for you. Shame on your horrible spin.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-24-12 at 08:04 PM
Are we in Sucks where opinions get fixed?

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 11-24-12 at 08:09 PM
Mike really hasn't made any big moves, he has just accepted what has been offered. RC, then Lisa, now Final 4 that Malcolm offered. Even that, he deferred to whatever Lisa wanted, & would align with Penner. Then, even after agreeing to Malcolm's final 4 deal, he's shown as considering going with Pete's suggestion. He has talked the talk, but his actions are just like Lisa's, weak & more of a go along with the plans of others. They may develop Mike, or even Lisa, but I think I've seen Denise as a leader once or twice since merge. Her role can reemerge. As with your synopsis, Lisa, Mike & Denise seem to be final 3, but if they do F3, then Denise seems to me to be the most likely edit as a winner.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-24-12 at 08:52 PM
Murphy wrote:
>Mike really hasn't made any big
>moves, he has just accepted
>what has been offered.

Probst said:
From the moment Pete and Abi found the hidden immunity idol, they ruled the game with an iron fist.
They went into the merge with numbers and took out their enemies one by one.
Everything changed when Skupin got tired of being at the bottom of their alliance.

Which version matters?



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 11-25-12 at 03:15 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-25-12 AT 05:44 PM (EST)

>Which version matters?

I don't put much stock in what Probst says when he is promoting the show. So, the version that matters to me is the one I perceive (right or wrong ). I think Skupin can win it, Lisa or Denise as well. I've just not been impressed with Skupin's or Lisa's edit. That leaves me with Denise, but CBS has time to redefine the characters.

I wouldn't call Pete & Abi getting their way in voting out RC to be ruling with an iron fist. Boston Rob ruled with an iron fist, Pete & Abi ... no. Pete & Abi took out RC, who should have been an ally, & Jeff, only 2 before losing control, & had Penner voted Pete rather than Abi, Pete might have gone home rather than Kent & Pete/Abi would have lost control after taking out only RC. They didn't have control at the Kent boot, just even #'s. Everything changed when Penner gave Skupin & Lisa the chance to change things up & vote out Artis. Skupin didn't initiate the move, he just accepted Penner's offer. Skupin seemed as wishy washy as Lisa when reconsidering the Pete vote.



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-25-12 at 09:37 PM
The recaps aren't promotion. They are what the editors want us to remember of the story. As such, they are the most valuable tool in analyzing the edit.

"Cut to Commercials"
Posted by parathor on 11-24-12 at 09:52 PM
My "cut to commercials" theory (the winner has the most obvious montage of recaps that can be readily applied before/after a commercial break) didn't exactly pan out last season. There must be a corollary about "absurdly hot chicks get a lot of screentime" or something...

Anyway, this season seems to be all about Mike. Probable montages include:
- his countless bloody accidents
- his work around camp and/or trying to be under the radar
- ...and Michel's recap just reminded me that Mike has a lot of "most trusted alliancemates" (RC, Lisa, Penner)

That should be enough.

(strong second choice could go to Malcolm, with discovering the idol, being loved by everyone, doing well in challenges, and surviving his tribe's failures... so I'll assume he gets "Sprint Player" award)


"RE: Cut to Commercials"
Posted by michel on 11-24-12 at 11:19 PM
No hot chicks distractions this time!!!!

Lisa and Mike's talk about their F4 choices certainly fits the bill. And you know Jeff will turn to Penner, asking him about that decision to reject the F3 offer.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by suzzee on 11-25-12 at 02:12 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-25-12 AT 09:24 PM (EST)

Nice editing thoughts Michel, I always enjoy reading.

It’s very interesting that both Lisa and Mike talked about taking control but Mike’s control is over the game while Lisa is over her life. That’s the difference between the winner and the journey player.

Sometimes it is about the journey. Where there "journey" players that have won?



I have to say that the editors have managed to make Denise look almost irrelevant which is pretty amazing considering her pre-merge build up.

This was her survival story though, she seems to be evolving into the narrator perhaps to replace Penner if she outlasts him.



Coronation by Tribe



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-25-12 at 11:00 PM
Hi Suzzee, thought I might chime in here too

In recent seasons, a notable "journey" player to have won was Bob in Gabon. It really wasn't until the episode when Randy got voted out that Bob was starting to play the game. Interesting for that season was that he was in the final three with Susie, who had little screentime, and Sugar, who had tons of screentime (and who turned out to be a "journey" player too)

Regarding Denise, yes, she has a narrator presence post-merge, although I feel she always had, she was just second to Malcolm and Jonathon at times. I also feel she has remained relevant since the merge, its just that often times editing focuses on other big players that are finishing up their storylines. Since the merge episode, Denise (along with Malcolm) was mentioned in the recaps, has continued to be shown strongly in challenges (along with winning the first II challenge), has been shown in key strategic discussions (she suggested Artis), and has gotten to re-iterate her mantra of "every step is an opportunity to turn things around."

Even in this past episode, with all the attention on the back-and-forth between Denise and Abi at TC, it was Denise who was shown articulating this what the rest of the 6 were thinking. From an editing standpoint this is good for her, like a pre-jury speech. Especially when considering factors like Pete saying they were ALL coming down on Abi (although Denise was showcased) and Jonathan's comment last episode (albeit to Lisa) about what would the audience want to see this season. The audience wanted to see Abi get put in her place, and the editors had Denise deliver it to us!


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by mimo on 11-25-12 at 08:00 PM
I always enjoy reading your analysis Michel -- it's great how you try to pick a winner that seems to fit within the themes of the show. I do think, however, that the show plays out in several acts and different players can be highlighted differently during these acts. It is interesting that Mike was overlooked during Act 1 (where is was all about the underdogs Denise and Malcom) and that Denise is now being overlooked during Act 3 (where is all about Mike and Lisa finding their voices.)

That said, while Denise seems to be taking a back burner in Act 3 -- she is still a presence (no confessional during last week's reward challenge but very much present in the visuals and in the interaction with the locals--and there was that wink at tribal council when Artis was voted out.) I'm interested how the majority of viewers react to Denise's "trashing of" / "reasoned explanation to" Abi. Personally, I sympathized with Denise. To me, she voiced the thoughts of the viewers, keeping an even tone of voice and not personalizing the argument but only giving up when Abi would not let her finish a single sentence. After seeing Abi yelling at both RC and Lisa the past several weeks, I did not find Denise to be harsh in comparison. Further, when Jeff asked Abi if the issue was a language issue, Abi jumps on that as an excuse -- I can't recall the exact words, but it went something to the extent of Abi saying English is not her first language and so she might be misunderstood but that her friends enjoyed her "feisty" personality. The fact that she used the word feisty (which is not a word I would expect from a non-native English speaker) made me question how truthful she really was. Further, having Peter (who has been edited as the second most unlikeable person on the island and also a failed master manipulator) speak on Abi's behalf didn't sway me. That said, I'd be interested in hearing from others. Who thought Denise went too far? Who thought Abi had it coming?

For me, it's still too early to tell who is being edited as the winner. I think Lisa, Mike, Malcom, Denise, and even Penner are still in it. Carter doesn't have a chance and neither does Abi. Of the first five, I'm leaning towards Denise, but I think there is still plenty of story to be played out. (You make a vey compelling case for Mike.)



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 11-25-12 at 08:41 PM
I think Denise went further than she intended to go, but not "too far". Wasn't Denise responding to Probst's questions when Abi interjected & then Denise responded to Abi? I wonder if it was edited by someone who thought Abi had it coming & that the editors did not think Denise went too far. More of what editors expected us to see & feel, as opposed to what we saw & interpreted. Denise needed to be shown as standing up to Abi. I don't see Denise being hurt by the exchange with the jury, nor with Abi, as hotheads like Abi tend to blow up or otherwise get emotional & then forget all about it, unlike RC who seems to be carrying a grudge at Ponderosa.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by CTgirl on 11-25-12 at 08:47 PM
I thought Abi was obnoxious and that Denise tried to be reasonable. Abi was so oblivious to what was going on and how she difficult she was being, I felt for Denise. I didn't think that Abi listened to what Denise was saying - she just railroaded right over what Denise was saying. Personally, I don't think Denise lost any jury votes by that exchange.

Both Denise and Mike have had unusual edits and they are the two that I am looking at to win. As you pointed out, both of them have had periods of silence while remaining a presence. But if we don't hear some more strategy talk from her, then I fear for her chances. I don't think Lisa wins. Although, I don't particularly like her, she is clearly the journey player of this season. Penner has made too many mistakes and, while I like Malcolm, we haven't heard any of his reasons for voting with the evil axis and then shifting to the other side. He's too dangerous to take to the end and he will fall short.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-26-12 at 00:28 AM
I agree with the consensus here that the back-and-forth between Denise and Abi at TC was not damaging for Denise. I chimed in about this in my post above (along with my thoughts of Denise still having a good showing so far post-merge). While I did actually feel for Abi a slight bit (considering she's classified as a villain, but responded with some emotion, rather than being smug) I felt Denise was articulate and as cool, honest & direct about it as she could be. Denise stated what the others were thinking and what the audience had been viewing of Abi all season. Which reminded me of Jonathan's comment to Lisa from last episode about what would the audience want to see this season. I believe the audience wanted to see Abi get put in her place, and Denise was the one to finally do it!

All season I've been looking at Denise and Lisa to make it to FTC, and with each episode it looks like Mike has the best chance to be the third in a final 3 scenario. I can also credit lots of Michel's analysis as for why I'd consider Mike for that slot. Maybe I'm being swayed as it is well-thought out analysis, but I personally am not seeing a winning edit for him. Perhaps I just cannot get past the fact that he received 0 confessionals over a 5 episode span pre-merge. This, coming from an alpha-male returning player. It makes NO sense that production would do a 180 from previous seasons and not highlight Mike the way that they highlighted other recent alpha male returnees. Rob's win gave us the Rob show, Coach's loss gave us the Coach show, even Ozzy in 4th place had a meatier edit than Mike. If Mike were the winner, why aren't we getting the Mike show? Reverse editing psychology? I don't think so. Unfortunately, the eidtors don't strive to be so different from season to season, nor do they cater to super-fans who would appreciate a more elaborate change of editing. They are catering to a more casual viewer. Therefore, it looks to me that for Mike, they're likely using a similar editing style for a 3rd place finisher. Enough to let us know why the player got there, but falling short in the edit somehow, so that we don't feel as disappointed when they lose. Mike's edit reminds me a bit of Mick's from Samoa. He had enough manipulation and substance in his edit to give him the longevity to make FTC, but there was always something missing. Mike's "something missing" for me is how we've witnessed so much negative talk about him from others, yet we don't hear his defense to counterbalance this as it is going on. This is a pretty big factor with regard to a winner.

Lisa was looking good pre-merge, and even had a great merge episode. Although initially appearing as a journey player, she had "legs" in many ways to make endgame - she was tied to the themes, tied to multiple players/alliances, and her screentime/confessionals were consistent. And yes, a journey player can win, like Bob did in Gabon. But in recent episodes, it started to look like Lisa was more akin to the other journey player from Gabon, Sugar. Her playing the middle between the divide of the merged tribe has a vibe that Lisa would heavily determine the direction the game would go, but not win. Whichever faction she leaned toward would benefit in moving forward. This was Sugar's "role" in Gabon. Both her and Lisa have gotten lots of attention (and happen to be great for the camera), but almost too much attention for a winner's edit. Although I can still see Lisa fairing better than Sugar in the final voting. Which would make sense in terms of some key editing for Lisa in which we've been shown her to state that she wants to win (whereas Sugar didn't).

This brings us to Denise. Her edit seems like the classic ingredients of substance, frequency and relevance to the game. She's stated clear points to the themes of the season, like how things can change at every turn. She is continually visible through her challenge prowess, Jeff's commentary, social interactions at camp, strategic decision-making, key confessionals and speaking at tribal. A sprinkling of all these things throughout ALL of the episodes. Yes, some episodes have less than others, but this is the subtlety the editors use to make the winner not look TOO obvious. With the exception of Boston Rob, our winner has some kind of ebb and flow. Denise is good in all areas (triple threat, having prowess in strategy, social skills, and challenges) similar in that way to Kim from One World. She's playing a great game, and doing her share on the survival aspect (which seems to take less precedence in recent seasons). The difference with Denise and Kim from a storyline or editing point of view is that Denise is playing with returning players, as well as better players, therefore the ratio of her game portrayal then changes. If there were no returning players and less stronger players this season, we'd likely see even more of the powerhouse that Denise is. But that would make her an obvious winner like Kim. Fortunately it makes for a better season to have a lot of the endgame players still playing the game, and having their strengths in the game to be what causes the doubt to a Denise win, rather than more editing manipulation for her competitors.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 08:33 AM
Consensus? You are wrong there. I think this was damaging for Denise so where is the consensus?

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Arnold_Lorax2 on 11-26-12 at 10:04 AM
Consensus = general agreement which is different from unanimous. Just because YOU feel one way doesn't mean it isn't consensus when most of the replies of the group are in agreement. This thread isn't just about you Michel

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 09:06 PM
Consensus: a group decision making process that seeks the consent of all participants.

I don't feel there was an attempt to reach a decision before Aaron declared the consensus and no one seeked my consent.

And this thread is certainly not about me but I have been the most consistant contributor since Fiji. How many posts have you made here?!!

Besides, just look below:

Spot wrote: "If at the FTC, (Abi) still feels maligned by Denise, then that's one vote for someone else that easily could have been hers if she had managed Abi better."

Dabo wrote: "Really, most of what Denise said at TC was in reply to Probst asking her thoughts. It was only the last bit where she was responding to Abi, trying to explain it wasn't hatred but frustration and so on, where she made her mistake..."

And the 7 or 8 people here aren't much compared to the general audience. Look at other boards and you read plenty of:
"I felt sorry for Abi."
"I was actually oddly moved by her tears during the TC"
"I really felt bad for her because I've kinda gone through the same thing. I feel like she's just trying to be herself but people can't see it."
"Poor Abi"

On POS, there were actually 44 posters in a thread sympathizing with Abi so what is the "consensus" here worth?!!!


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Arnold_Lorax2 on 11-26-12 at 09:24 PM
Think what you want POS and other sites don't apply here on this discussion or board. I personally don't think that Aaron was trying to ramrod a thought down peoples minds and maybe he used the wrong word to say what he meant it doesn't mean that you should act all offended like he didn't consult you before posting his thoughts.

I don't post in this thread because I know spoilers and so it would be hard to discuss editing in an unbiased way even though that doesn't stop others.

And posting here since fiji still don't make you God of this thread and everyone can share there opinion.

Agman siggified me


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-26-12 at 09:48 PM
I've been here since Borneo and that doesn't make me higher and mightier than michel. Pointless point, michel.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by mimo on 11-26-12 at 09:55 PM
Differences of opinion are what make discussions interesting. It would seem that the majority of opinions posted did not find Denise to be out of line but within that majority there is a spectrum. While I agreed with what Denise said, I understand how Michel thought that the exchange between Denise and Abi had a a negative taint to it.

That said, in two days, Jeff will tell us what to think of it in his recap.

Let's continue to disagree (since that it what makes this all interesting) but please let's all play nicely in the sandbox.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 10:22 PM
Yes, but there's only a discussion when I find a way to rally everyone against me! It's not easy but I have a talent for it!

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by mimo on 11-26-12 at 11:29 PM
At least you keep things interesting!!


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 11-27-12 at 00:32 AM
So true mimo. This Board would be so boring without the regular posters doing so much of the work. At least we seem to be able to agree to disagree.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 10:00 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-26-12 AT 10:00 PM (EST)

Yes, you know spoilers and, up there, you're backing someone's pick. Isn't that equivalent to introducing spoilers to this thread?

Here, we discuss how the editors shape the story and a great way to understand their work is to read other people's reactions. That's what other boards have to do here. 6 or 7 people isn't a very large sample group and certainly insufficient to use the word consensus.

BTW, While I have been the main contributor since Fiji, I've been posting here since Vanuatu. I don't appreciate the drive-by attacks you've posted at all.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Arnold_Lorax2 on 11-26-12 at 10:54 PM
I'm not attacking you I was just sticking up for the little guy as I saw that you were attacking him. He may have only 77 posts but his thoughts are just as much a part of this thread as anyone elses. I've seen you do it a bunch of times and I was sick of it so I said something.

All I was saying to the other guy above was that they too had been set aside for there opinions and I was applauding him for his post and observations not whether I agreed with his analisis.

Agman siggified me


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 00:04 AM
Calling him "the little guy" is very demeaning. I'm thinking he could defend himself.

As far as attack goes, saying I don't agree with something certainly doesn't qualify but using words like "It's not your thread", "you are not god" and "I'm sick of it" sure sounds like you want to pick a fight. That's pretty funny.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Arnold_Lorax2 on 11-27-12 at 00:09 AM
Forget it its lost on you

Agman siggified me


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-27-12 at 00:19 AM
Appreciate the mention, Arnold! And you are correct, my emphasis was not on the word "consensus", rather I nonchalantly phrased it that way due to similarities I personally had just read before posting with regard to the perception of Denise at TC. I hope you and others were able to enjoy the rest of my post and the editing analysis that went into it.

- aaron


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Arnold_Lorax2 on 11-27-12 at 00:31 AM
I truly enjoyed reading your post and got what you were saying Aaron. I hope that you weren't offended by me taking up for you and when I referred to you as the little guy it was in the context that I felt Michel was bullying you. You may have less posts then him but your posts are meaningful so keep it up good stuff.

Agman siggified me


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-29-12 at 05:00 AM
Wasn't offended at all, Arnold I took what you wrote figuratively, and not as if you were literally belittling me (or anyone else). I got the message you were trying to convey with that statement.

I appreciate the sentiment that my number of posts does not equate to the meaningfulness of my posts. I happen to feel this way too - I've seen interesting posts in here from people who have had posts in the single digits to those over 1000. For me it's quality not quantity. Although I must say, I do find it amazing that some people here have been so active for many years, in many threads for many seasons (but that's a whole other award, if there were one to give).

After being a long-time lurker, this is only my third season contributing (this one, along with One World and Nicaragua) And I primarily keep my posts to the editing thread, because it's my favorite thread and I find it adds to my experience of watching the show. So I may not be high in the post count - but I certainly feel like my posts for those seasons gave bits of insight to the editing analysis along the way. It's fun! And a big incentive to even post at all has been because I'm aware that it's enjoyable to other long-time lurkers like I once was


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-26-12 at 09:41 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-26-12 AT 09:49 PM (EST)


>Consensus: a group decision making process
>that seeks the consent of
>all participants.

No, another definition is "a general agreement" with the key word being 'general' and "a judgment arrived at by most of those concerned" which suggests that most agreed to the point but all decided to go with it in a show of unity. For example, a group of six people might get together to decide on what to have for dinner, with four of them suggesting 'pizza' and two suggesting 'Thai' so the consensus was to go ahead and order pizza.

Unanimous = "all" which suggests that every single one agreed to it right off the bat. It was unanimous by all six people that they'd order pizza.


>On POS, there were actually 44
>posters in a thread sympathizing
>with Abi so what is
>the "consensus" here worth?!!!

Is POS a Sucks place? If so, that's all you need to know - whatever the people of Sucks thinks, go with the opposite on here as the people are much smarter in this place!


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 10:09 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-26-12 AT 10:27 PM (EST)

Since we're now using dictionnaries, I pulled mine and it says:

Consensus: group solidarity in sentiment and belief. general agreement. Unanimity. collective opinion.

So, on 3 of the 4 definitions, I had the right to object and, as for general agreement, I think 6 or 7 opinions about a show watched by 10 million people is hardly general!!
It was my way of saying that I was NOT going with group unity!!

POS is a group that includes fans from everyboard including many survivors themselves with Yau Man being the main alumni posting so it's a fun place to go.

But I like mimo's post and will end it here.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by dabo on 11-26-12 at 10:47 PM
You edited what I wrote, left out what followed. No biggie, but I still don't agree with you about what Denise's mistake was. She had a sympathetic opening to reply to Abi, she made that sympathetic statement, that's where she should have stopped. What followed wasn't "trashing" so much as pointless. (Though, personally, I was amused at Abi demonstrating what makes her a goat.)

I don't know that any of this cost her any votes. The two surviving Matsing cannot rely on first tribe loyalty from any but each other, any other votes they might get at FTC would be hard earned over the course of the game.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-27-12 at 00:10 AM
Yikes, more data that it clearly was not the right word to use! ;)

I just want it to be clear though that I posted before Spot and Dabo shared their thoughts regarding this.

Now on with the editing analysis.....


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-26-12 at 11:58 PM
Apologies, Michel! At the time writing this I was directly referring to the posts just before mine, from Mimo, Murphy and CTgirl, so perhaps I could've framed my comment as such. I read your Ep 10 post prior to that, although I don't remember getting the vibe that you thought it was too damaging to Denise.

I'm always game for healthy debate, and appreciate your attention to details, especially with editing analysis. Although I have to say, for you to simply make a post regarding the fifth word amongst all of my comments is more disheartening to me, than fun. And I'm here for the fun of it!

I remember in One World season I used the term "status quo" regarding an editing analysis thought regarding Jay and you corrected me on that as well. We actually had a good discussion from it, but you also commented on other things that I wrote. Which was nice, as I took the time and energy to post (once again, for the fun of it) I fancy those days when you actually read the content of my thoughts and shared a bit more insight about my editing analysis rather than my lack of using the correct word. But I respect your decision to post what you feel you want to share.

- aaron


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 00:08 AM
I apologize also then: I was off to work and didn't have time for a full response but I was hurt by the apparent disregard of my opinion. I had to point it out. Look where that got us!!

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-27-12 at 00:17 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-12 AT 00:21 AM (EST)


Just a thought. If you're going to get hurt over something like that, then maybe that's telling you something. If you don't want others to disregard your opinion, then maybe you shouldn't be doing any disregarding either.

I mean, let's go with an example from early in this thread - you didn't acknowledge any of the first 5 or so posts in the thread before you posted your first one and then later commented that nobody else seemed to be posting ("It's quiet in here"). It's a give and take community.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 08:35 AM
Wow! Are you realy going down that way?

I think you should look at the context: The first 5 posts were all before the premiere and i said nothing because I knew nothing of the players before the premiere. My comment of "quiet in here" came on the Saturday after the SECOND show, a full 10 days after the premiere and, by then, there had been 2 posts: mine and suzzee's. Compared to other seasons, that was certainly quiet.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-27-12 at 12:51 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-12 AT 04:02 PM (EST)


Actually no, four of the five were after the premiere and had commentary relating to what happened in that first episode. But thanks for clarifying that you didn't bother to read those thoughts.

Eta: I don't care whether you read mine or not but I thought forehead, crispy and Spot had points that were worth commenting on, but they weren't commented on by anyone else. That's why I laughed when you made the comment about it being quiet and also being hurt about disparaging your opinion. Once again, it's a give and take community.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 06:49 PM
OK, I didn't read the posts this morning before replying to your point but when I said it was quiet back then I was addressing the fact that there was only one post between the 22 and the 29th of the month. Geez, I'd think it would be evident. I didn't ignore anyone but if you need to laugh, go ahead.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-27-12 at 06:56 PM
Revisionist history.

Got nothing more to say. If you don't get it by now, then not much else I can say or do.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 07:39 PM
Believe me I get it. I'm surprised by your attitude but I understand it.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-27-12 at 00:35 AM
Thanks Michel! Understood. It did garner a lot of discussion.
Just out of everything shared here, I believe there are just as many editing analysis comments that we can run with

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by dabo on 11-26-12 at 00:52 AM
Really, most of what Denise said at TC was in reply to Probst asking her thoughts. It was only the last bit where she was responding to Abi, trying to explain it wasn't hatred but frustration and so on, where she made her mistake. Her mistake wasn't "trashing" Abi, though, it was simply that she should have stopped with "It's not hatred." Putting on the professor therapist cap, well it didn't help Denise any though it allowed Abi to demonstrate why she is a goat.

What I thought was most interesting in all that was that she committed herself in front of the jury to not taking goats to Final, she now has to stay that course in the game to have credibility with at least the three members of the jury to whom she was playing.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by SpotTheDiffference on 11-26-12 at 05:26 AM
I agree. While we think that what Denise said was justified and called for, we don't get a vote. Abi does, and she's a highly emotional player. If at the FTC, she still feels maligned by Denise, then that's one vote for someone else that easily could have been hers if she had managed Abi better. The other vote that she could have lost in this case is Pete, who, as far as we're shown, spent his final words sympathizing with Abi instead of describing his own experience.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by tikigirlie on 11-26-12 at 04:11 PM
I don't think Denise was edited as going overboard at all. I think she was shown as being extremely calm and mature in her attempt to deal with Abi. My opinion is that it actually raised the audience's opinion of Denise rather than made people feel sorry for Abi.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by jobgirl on 11-26-12 at 07:41 PM
I also sympathized more with Denise as it seemed to me she just wanted to finish what she was saying and Abi would not let her do it. Denise might have given up after two tries instead of three but I think she really wanted Abi to understand. It was Abi, for me, that was unreasonable as she rolled her eyes instead of listening and continued to interrupt. If she would have listened, perhaps she could have redeemed herself with everyone by apologizing. Her tears seemed like crocodile tears to me.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 09:15 PM
If that was the editors' intent then we wouldn't have heard Pete saying that they ripped Abi apart.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by CTgirl on 11-26-12 at 09:27 PM
That's your interpretation of it!

I didn't take what Pete said seriously because
1. He was part of the axis of evil and we weren't supposed to like them. (Look at how Artis was edited compared to his personality in his exit interviews. He was evil by association.)
2. He was going home and isn't a player anymore. It just tells me that Pete won't vote for Denise.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-26-12 at 09:53 PM
I concur. Remember Christy, for one, said she`d never vote for Jenna but she did in the final tribal council back in the Amazon. At the very worst, all Denise has potentially lost is Pete`s vote. I think most of the others silently went YOU GO, GIRL! while Denise was putting Abi back into her much-deserved place.

"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-26-12 at 10:19 PM
It's exactly because Pete was going home that his words carry weight. And your use of Artis makes my case: Look at how gracious the editors let him appear in his final words compared to the rest of his edit.

And Abi won't vote for Denise so, in order to win one argument, she lost 2 votes. I'd say that right there it's damaging. More importantly, they let us see Abi's tears. The editors could have used images from other TCs to show Abi rolling her eyes at Denise but they showed her tears. It had to make many people feel a little bad for her.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Sheldor on 11-27-12 at 01:22 AM
I'm totally surprised to see that people saw that Tribal Council and sympathize with Denise!?!!

To me that Tribal Council was all edited to make us empathize with Abi!! I felt SO bad for Abi that it brought me to tears! I felt they edited Denise (and Jeff) going WAY overboard to the point of belittling Abi.

>It's exactly because Pete was going home that his words carry
>weight.

Indeed. Pete's empathy for Abi also was touching to me.

>More importantly, they let us see Abi's tears.

>It had to make many people feel a little bad for her.

It made me feel VERY bad for Abi! Abi was not aware of how she was being perceived. She was overjoyed by the Reward and wanted to share her joy with the rest of the tribe. These recent Tribal Councils have been a rude awakening for her that others see her differently. However, there was NO need to bring her to tears!

AND the editors left in Jonathan Penner wiping away a tear and a shot of Artis all red eyed and obviously crying for Abi. Those scenes are key to how we were supposed to feel.

I came away from this Tribal Council feeling that the editors wanted to portray Denise as someone who would use her therapy skills to belittle someone who was defenseless and alone. I can't remember any winner ever treating someone so poorly who may be a potential juror. I think they were giving us the reason why Denise will not win.



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by SpotTheDiffference on 11-27-12 at 03:13 AM
I completely agree with this, including with the empathizing with Abi's tears. I didn't think Denise started off badly--she was obviously getting frustrated by Abi cutting her off mid-sentence several times. I really think she could have handled the situation better, especially once she saw Abi starting to tear up.

While I still think Denise could win (taking Michael and Carter to the end, for instance), I do think her chances for winning have been reduced.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-27-12 at 09:03 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-12 AT 09:06 AM (EST)

Finally having watched this episode, I agree with those here that note the editing certainly favored Abi. Abi was isolated and Jiffy kept calling out culturally, could this be a reason that you have acted like you have? That her misinterpretation of others actions and nuances were fueling her actions. She has just reacted and over-reacted to every situation she's been thrown in, starting with RC.

At TC, she was like a cornered animal, and I did have sympathy for her, despite the way she has carried on this entire game. She has depended on Pete for guidance throughout, and now Pete is going, and she knows it.

I saw it definitely as taking Denise's stock down a few notches. But, as Pepe noted up above, I am not making any conclusions at this point regarding the jury. As we all know the jury is a fickle beast. Indeed, Christy voted for her evil step-sister, Jenna. They can deny a very worthy winner just because of bitterness, Boston Rob. I think it's very hard to predict what a jury will and won't do. But, Abi at TC was edited so that we the audience would be sympathetic, while Denise was not.

I wouldn't discount Pete and Abi's votes at this point, but I definitely agree, if they voted for winner today, it WOULDN'T be Denise. Still a lot of game left to go, imo.

ETA: It also crossed my mind that Denise's stock could have been edited to go down here, to create possible doubt as to her winning. We all know there needs to be some doubt cast on the winner, right?


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-27-12 at 01:07 PM
Even Kim had moments of doubt placed into places last season though it was obvious she would win.

The thing is, if Abi doesn't make it to the end and has time to stew in Ponderosa, she might very well be more pissed at Lisa and Skupin (people she trusted and was in an alliance with but also was shown disparaging them at times) than at Denise, Malcolm and Penner, so who's to say she doesn't vote for Denise depending on how she perceives the handling of her boot? She's a true wild card.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by dabo on 11-27-12 at 01:37 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-12 AT 01:38 PM (EST)

Well, too, while Abi made Denise's point by repeatedly frustrating Denise's efforts to talk to Abi, by not letting her say what she was trying to say, it becomes a question of how Denise deals with it going forward (which we can't know yet). She has time to make corrections.

Will she be savvy, maybe deal with Abi in a one to one where it obviously cannot be what Abi tried to spin it as (directing everyone else's thoughts) but what Denise intended (guidance for Abi)? Perhaps, perhaps not. She could well decide to let Abi run loose and work on securing herself with the other players, make sure they know she was really trying to just dissipate the "hatred" Abi was mistakenly feeling.

Get knocked back a bit in Survivor, look for a way to turn it to your advantage.

But, as I said, we can't know yet. I'm excited wondering how this will continue to play out.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-27-12 at 01:49 PM
The thing is, if Abi doesn't make it to the end and has time to stew in Ponderosa, she might very well be more pissed at Lisa and Skupin

Wow, Pepe, you spoke the word, Ponderosa. Have any of you been watching what is going on in there? There are folks that still haven't gotten over day 1 antics. This is going to be a very heated and polarizing game, perhaps. Really surprising how these people are acting once they are out of the game. Makes for predicting jury votes even more challenging, perhaps, or maybe it makes them more predictable? If you haven't watched the clips, you will be surprised, I think.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-27-12 at 02:11 PM
Ah, I haven't watched any of them - can't access them up here in the Great White North!

But yeah, I'm getting a sense that things aren't always so lovey-dovey amongst the bootees from monitoring things on Twitter. Pete has blocked both RC and Abi, while RC and Abi have been sniping at each other on there. Malcolm made a humourous but disparaging comment about Abi being one of the two scariest things to come out of Brazil (see my post over on OT for further details on the 'other' scary thing).

And thought I'd throw this in just for kicks. Y'know, just in case they ever do film up here...


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 09:51 PM
I feel less and less alone


I wanted to comment on doubts though and to me, it feels more like Denise is used to put doubt on someone else's chances than having doubts surrounding her directly. We've been told she wins if she makes the finals. We see that no one is thinking of eliminating her so she's a sure bet, no? Wouldn't we hear comments that Denise has to be eliminated?

Maybe they are using Mike's comments for their irony where he worries about Malcolm but forgets about Denise. To me however, I think we don't hear comments that Denise needs to be booted for much the same reason we never heard comments that Rafe could win all the immunities: In the end, it won't matter.

For Rafe, no one worried about him winning all those immunities because he lost the only one he needed.
For Denise, no one is worrying about eliminating her because we will reach a point where she doesn't stand a chance to stay. Maybe she loses the F4 IC and they keep Abi over her or it's a F2. Either way, Denise seems destined to get the boot at the very last TC.


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by mimo on 11-26-12 at 10:02 PM
Yeah -- but consider the source Pete isn't someone whose opinions have shown to bear much weight. Now if this week someone like Malcom, Lisa, or Penner say that Denise was overly harsh then I'll be more sympathetic.



"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by Booted on 11-27-12 at 03:15 PM
First I would would like to thank Michael for his posts. They are as enjoyable for me as the actual show. Thank you for your efforts.

2 Questions I have about this season. First Denise and Lisa - Jeff and company seem to have a problem when woman win of editing them fully. Sophia as an example. So for these 2 I think their edits do not rule them out because of this.

Second. Now (now being at this point in the show) that Abi, Pete and Artis know Lisa was loyal to them I wonder if they will not vote for her (assuming she makes the final 3). If so that is a long way to the votes she needs.

Boot Ed


"RE: Episode 10 - The Goat:"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 09:38 PM
Thanks Ed.

My impression is that Denise and Lisa have had some of the best edits we've ever seen for women, winner or not. So, it isn't the container so much as the content.

Lisa seems to me to be there to learn about herself. That's what the editors are stressing. It feels like the journey is more important to Lisa than the destination.

Denise has more of a player's edit and, as you've seen above, it's quite difficult to have a consensus (!) on what her edit actually means. What I see is that her great pre-merge edit hasn't continued. She's relegated to the back seat at a time when winners emerge. Bob had his fake idols and deals with Kenny and Sugar at this point. Natalie received the full credit for eliminating Erik and had the rat scene which made Jaison say he was so proud of her. Mostly there was the comparison to John throughout the episode where Laura was booted. He panicked while she stayed calm both during the reward challenge and before the vote. Those manipulations surround the winner and I have yet to see any around Denise.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by Georjanna on 11-27-12 at 02:55 AM
Denise, I thought, came off a preachy, self-important, condescending boor.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 11-27-12 at 09:52 PM
Now that's a direct hit! Thank you for your input, Georgianna.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by puzzled11 on 11-27-12 at 11:32 PM
>And this thread is certainly not about me but I have been the most consistant contributor since Fiji.

I know you have been, Michel, and I thank you for all of your great contributions.

There has, however, been one other early consistent contributor to this thread. One who kept the thread free of antagonistic rancour and one who was blessed with the most incisive tools of editorial analysis I have seen on any board. Her early identification of Danni as a contender in Guatemala will always be proof of that and it was part of an ongoing procession of excellence.

That contributor is, of course, the originator of this thread.

I have always been curious about one thing and, though, I have lurked at least as long as you have contributed, I have never actually seen the question posed. It is this:


What did you think was going to happen when you suddenly began to post your expansive blow-by-blow commentaries after each episode, pre-empting Veruca's? Those commentaries had always been Veruca's signature style and surely you must have known that, possessed with genuine good grace that she appeared to be, she would not have taken a confrontational course of action? Especially to avoid a situation, such as Nicaragua, where other posters began comparing your methods and results (unfavourably to you, I might add...)

I wonder if others have asked the same question. And I wonder if there are others, like me, who would like nothing better than for Veruca to contribute much, more than merely opening the thread. For many, many reasons, I miss her.

As indicated at the beginning, I am really grateful for your contributions. I just wish there was a different way.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 11-28-12 at 07:40 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-28-12 AT 07:46 PM (EST)

>I know you have been, Michel,
>and I thank you for
>all of your great contributions.

Well thank you. I always wonder what to say to a long time lurker because Welcome aboard seems inappropriate. I prefer to say that I am glad to read your thoughts and answer your questions.

>There has, however, been one other
>early consistent contributor to this
>thread. One who
>kept the thread free of
>antagonistic rancour and one who
>was blessed with the most
>incisive tools of editorial analysis
>I have seen on any
>board. Her early identification
>of Danni as a contender
>in Guatemala will always be
>proof of that and it
>was part of an ongoing
>procession of excellence.
>
>That contributor is, of course, the
>originator of this thread.
>
>I have always been curious about
>one thing and, though, I
>have lurked at least as
>long as you have contributed,
>I have never actually seen
>the question posed. It
>is this:
>
>
>What did you think was going
>to happen when you suddenly
>began to post your expansive
>blow-by-blow commentaries after each episode,
>pre-empting Veruca's? Those commentaries
>had always been Veruca's signature
>style and surely you must
>have known that, possessed
>with genuine good grace that
>she appeared to be, she
>would not have taken a
>confrontational course of action?

I see that you are a very up front person and I like that. Veruca always did a wonderful job and I never wanted to pre-empt her, quite the opposite. Back during CI, we were many people who wrote long, detailed posts and Veruca encouraged us.

My posts, during Guatemala, Panama, CI, Fiji and China were only character analysis. I left the blow-by-blow to Veruca because she was marvelous at it.

I did learn a few things along the way though so my posts naturally grew over time. I started transcribing confessionals during Micronesia because I felt that I needed to back-up what I was writing. Just analysing the characters made everything look out of context.

Back then, I did ask Veruca if she was fine with my work and she always said she was. Then, when Gabon came around, she started missing some episodes and I remember sending her a few PMs wondering if she wanted me to change but I think she never saw them.

So, I continued but, if you notice, I still mostly limit myself to transcribing the confessionals. I only write about the action scenes to set up those confessionals unless one scene merits particular attention. See, what I admired most of Veruca was her ability to look at a scene and tell if it was fabricated, if it was out of sequence or not.

I rarely touch on that out of respect. Only when I feel it's really important to I go into details of a scene. When the editors tried to sell us that Russell found the first idol without a clue, I had to write about it. I realized that Russell had found the idol only after Yasmin had come to camp, not before.

I've linked Veruca's thread over the years to show you that I wasn't the only one making detailed posts and that I didn't start all of a sudden, it was a slow evolution:

CI:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6427&forum=DCForumID2&archive=yes

(Look at all the great contributions by FP, emydi, Velcrohead, BR, KOBfan and the others. We were all expressing ourselves and learning.)

Fiji:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6623&forum=DCForumID2&archive=yes

China:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6768&forum=DCForumID2&archive=yes

Micronesia:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6872&forum=DCForumID2&archive=yes#7

If you go over them, you will see that I only started doing some blow-by-blow as you call it during Micronesia.



>Especially to avoid a situation,
>such as Nicaragua, where other
>posters began comparing your methods
>and results (unfavourably to you,
>I might add...)

Depends what you mean by results: Veruca wrote that she liked Fabio's edit in the premiere. I wrote that I thought he was the winner only by the merge episode. I never considered it a race even if I do like to make my choice early.

The confrontation was with people who posted that Veruca had picked Fabio before me as if we were in competition. Worse, it was telling us that they knew Veruca was right only because they knew Fabio was indeed going to win. Even if I had said that Fabio would win, I didn't really know he was going to win nor did I want to know for sure. I hate being spoiled.

(I still think Fabio was the least deserving winner ever so maybe that affected my analysis!)


>I wonder if others have asked
>the same question. And
>I wonder if there are
>others, like me, who would
>like nothing better than for
>Veruca to contribute much, more
>than merely opening the thread.
> For many, many reasons,
>I miss her.

I asked her the same question and I also would like her to post but she seems to have decided not to post.

>As indicated at the beginning, I
>am really grateful for your
>contributions. I just wish
>there was a different way.

I like the back and forth and find it stimulating. Some see it as confrontations but I see it as defending our opinions. This is a place to exchange ideas, isn't it?



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by puzzled11 on 11-29-12 at 09:05 PM
Thank you for your forthright response. I am intrigued to learn that you sent private messages to VS and that she didn't see them. Be that as it may, I wonder what it would take to bring her back. Perhaps a host of people pleading for that to happen?

Speaking of this being a place to exchange ideas, I've been puzzled by the lack of attention you and everyone else have given Malcolm. You seem to have interpreted Malcolm's edit at key points diametrically opposite to how I saw it. For example, when they were split, you mentioned that it was very bad for him that he wasn't shown speaking about Denise. I recall my thoughts on that we're that it's always been Denise whose game has been shown to depend on Malcolm's. She's the one who talks about him but he doesn't need to talk about her. He might have been in an alliance with her since Day 1 but his game has never been shown to depend on hers. Watch the scene when they find the idol, for example. Denise is not even shown when he finds it and talks about it being good for HIS game.

Have you dismissed Malcolm too rashly?


"The case against Malcolm"
Posted by michel on 11-29-12 at 11:39 PM
Here's what I've noted over the course of the season that make me think Malcolm won't win:

He was responsible for Matsing's fire on day 1 yet it was brushed over.
Malcolm was shown on screen when Russell said: “These folks haven’t decided that they are unbeatable and that they can do this. Get your head out of your butt or go home.”
His showmance with Angie made him look like a dumb player at times.

Malcolm talked about being miserable during the rainy days, something winners rarely do. (That was one reason I knew Mick couldn't win)
A main theme early was to go with the flow and not try to have control. Malcolm often said he was in control in Matsing.
We were shown Malcolm going through Russell's belongings, something that could have been cut.
Pre-merge, Denise clearly over-shadowed Malcolm so, out of the two, she felt more like the winner.

After the merge, he was closely associated with the rude kids, telling us about Pete and Abi's plans. He wasn't only accepted by the clique, he became their voice.
Lately, the recaps are mostly about Lisa and Skupin, relegating Malcolm to a secondary role.

A case could certainly be made in his favor but that is what I saw and I have to go with it.


"RE: The case against Malcolm"
Posted by puzzled11 on 11-30-12 at 00:37 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-30-12 AT 00:40 AM (EST)

>Here's what I've noted over the
>course of the season that
>make me think Malcolm won't
>win:
>
>He was responsible for Matsing's fire
>on day 1 yet it
>was brushed over. Malcolm was shown on screen when
>Russell said: “These folks haven’t
>decided that they are unbeatable
>and that they can do
>this. Get your head out
>of your butt or go
>home.”

Was shown explaining that he would let deliberately let Russell take on the leadership role. That has been his edit throughout: letting others take the initiative and work on changing things up when necessary.

>His showmance with Angie made him
>look like a dumb player
>at times.


Th edit went to great pains to prevent it being regarded as a showmance. It was mainly a device used to show him cementing his alliance with Denise. Had the editors wanted to show Malocolm up over the incident, they had a lot more in their arsenal to do so than the ramblings of discredited Roxy. Instead, the whole thing ended with Malcolm's subtitled "That was fun" at the voting booth.


>Malcolm talked about being miserable during
>the rainy days, something winners
>rarely do. (That was one
>reason I knew Mick couldn't
>win)

It was part of Matsing's (his and Denise's) highlighting of early obstacles so that the underdog story could flourish, a la the Aitu 4.


>A main theme early was to
>go with the flow and
>not try to have control.
>Malcolm often said he was
>in control in Matsing.
>We were shown Malcolm going through
>Russell's belongings, something that could
>have been cut.
>Pre-merge, Denise clearly over-shadowed Malcolm so,
>out of the two, she
>felt more like the winner.


That theme is better described as going with the flow but having control by always, one way or another, gaining the information that allows you to be in control. This has been Malcolm's edit throughout. It's a subtle edit but it's allowed him to make adjustments even through the mis-steps of others (Lisa, Pete, Penner.)

>After the merge, he was closely
>associated with the rude kids,
>telling us about Pete and
>Abi's plans. He wasn't only
>accepted by the clique, he
>became their voice.


I think that's stretching it a bit.


>Lately, the recaps are mostly about
>Lisa and Skupin, relegating Malcolm
>to a secondary role.


I think we both agree that what the edit establishes prior to the merge is what is really important.

>A case could certainly be made
>in his favor but that
>is what I saw and
>I have to go with
>it.


No problems but I'm surprised that I have not seen a single poster here (not just you) consider him at any point. I'm not spoiled but I've wondered whether spoilers have had anything to do with that.


"Thoughts on Malcolm"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 11-30-12 at 04:39 AM
Great question, Puzzled!

After watching Ep11, I felt that Malcolm had a really great episode, and the thought did come to me: Could Malcolm still have a chance in this. Why was I no longer considering him? (for the record, I'm not spoiled about the results of the season ;)

Well, I'll start with this: I've firmly believed since pre-merge that both Lisa and Denise were getting strong edits. I thought that of RC and Malcolm as well, put in my rankings from eps 5-8, Malcolm would round out the 4th spot (and once 3rd) of likelihood to make it to endgame at that point in the. Granted he's actually had a solid edit, and that to me secured his longevity, but the best edit doesn't always equate endgame (hence why I never put him in top position). I felt that due to what I've noticed in previous seasons, and what I was perceiving in the editing for this season, that out of the "better" edits could all of them reach endgame. Likely not. I felt that out of the strongest edits that there would likely be 2 of those who get to the finals, and 1 would likely be first juror (which happened to be RC) and one would look to get to the end but fall short of it. I was thinking it would be more likely that out of Malcolm, Denise and Lisa, it would be him to be the one to fall short, as there seemed to be more handling of care with Denise and Lisa. Whereas Malcolm was constantly being shown and highlighted, and rightfully so as he's playing a great game, just that his edit seems to have a bit less finesse to have it be HIS story.

At this stage in the game I'm still feeling strong about Lisa and Denise in the FTC, so that's still leading me to believe someone with a LESSER edit than them will join them if there's a final 3. (and I feel Malcolm actually had the BEST edit of all the castaways) The more likely of the LESSER edits would be Mike due to consistency of his edit since the merge (plus his strong ep1) I've also felt that theme of this season is wrapped around these conjoining mantras that we've heard: "going with the the game" (as stated from Mike) "dealt a new hand every day, and play the hand that I have" (as stated from Lisa) and "Every step is an opportunity to turn things around" (as stated from Denise). To me these mantras comprise the theme summing up the season, and I believe the winner will re-hash some aspect of this in their FTC.

Malcolm doesn't necessarily counter this theme, but he doesn't quite embody it like some of the other players do. Even though he was on a failing tribe with Matsing, Malcolm was never in danger there, nor was he when he was over at Tandang. In some sense Malcolm has been in the lead all along. His moves, and even his doubts, are about how he can maintain his great position. How can he "go with the game" or "take opportunities to turn things around," when he is perceived as the one leading it (at least that's my perception )

Lastly I'll highlight my summary of Malcolm that I made for ep5 (which I still agree with after viewing ep11):
"Malcolm: Our likeable, young, athletic, sociable, strategic alpha male, who we've seen develop a strong alliance partnership and have heard given accurate understanding of the game around him. He's the confessional leader (since Russel's exit) and was a key narrator in the first four episodes. Then he had his best episode yet in Episode 5 - in finding an idol, getting absorbed into the winning tribe, and being approached & given valuable information by the dominant alliance in Tandang (Hey, wasn't it Ep 5 that was Kim's big episode in One World?) Sounds like a winner right?! Actually, it sounds too good to be true. There is almost too much going for Malcolm, I'd say. We've seen other players get this much attention and not win, but rarely do we see players get this much attention in the first 5 episodes and keep the momentum to get to the end. I found it peculiar that in the same episode that Malcolm stated he "got his swag back" he also had a confessional in which he said "everyone loves an underdog story" But so far Malcolm's edit has been more portrayed as that of a winner, rather than an underdog. Who could the editors want us to believe he was talking about?"

Interestingly, Malcolm has maintained that momentum since that episode, he has still gotten consistent attention, he is still given lots of narration, and he maintains the top spot of the confessional count. There are only a few episodes left, will he maintain this momentum or will he fall short of the FTC? I believe if Malcolm were to maintain his momentum and make it the FTC, he would win. And that would make it his season. But the themes don't match up with this, therefore, through my editing analysis Malcolm must fall short (although I wouldn't mind seeing him win!)


"RE: Thoughts on Malcolm"
Posted by puzzled11 on 11-30-12 at 05:27 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-30-12 AT 06:30 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 11-30-12 AT 05:31 AM (EST)

A very comprehensive explanation, Aaron.

Just two things. Regarding Malcolm not having the aura of an underdog, I believe that winner edits are given their foundation early and the audience will always remember Matsing's travails. The editors and the recaps made sure then to highlight that the odds against anyone from Matsing's winning would be very long.

Since then, his edit is best summed up by his reaction to Abi winning immunity:
Go with the flow and take advantage of the opportunity to vote out a threat. No need for big moves, just take what the game gives you.

It hasn't been plain sailing, far from it. Lisa finding his idol, Pete confronting him about it, Lisa gunning for him, Pete coming after him, he's been shown to overcome all of the potential disasters with the minimum possible fuss. Last episode, Michel included a great screenshot of Malcolm observing Mike which he ended up interpreting as Mike getting some doubt. I tend to think his other explanation is likely more plausible: That Malcolm was shown observing everyone and everything.


"RE: Thoughts on Malcolm"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-30-12 at 08:23 AM
I think Malcolm is the player most viewers would want to see win (other than rabid Penner fans like myself). He has all the good qualities. He's not goody-goody and he's not a villain. He plays all the time, but not too hard. He's the best new castmember they've had for some time, IMHO -- in that he's memorable but not for OTT behavior.

But, with such players, the editing can be skewed to show a good character and game as long as possible. Similar with Penner; he was gold as long as he was around.

Sometimes with a player like this who CBS recognizes as gold, the edit may not even be about his season, but grooming him for an inevitable return.

Point being, I think editing has perhaps shifted in the past few years, as returnees have become stock and trade, to where the player's edit might transcend the single season, which confuses me ...

there are those who have been in the game before, and others who will be back.and then the "celebrity" players.

Watching last night's episode, I felt like we may have another one of those "why someone doesn't win" seasons, overshadowing the actual winner. Like South Pacific. Ozzy didn't make it to the end, and Coach who had the game at his command, just screwed the pooch with the jury.

Penner didn't make it, and now we have the story of why Mike Skupin doesn't win Survivor. And why Lisa doesn't win. And then a woman who most likely picks up steam in the challenges (like Jenna, Danni, Sophie) will probably be the actual winner (Denise).

Then Probst will talk more to everyone else at the Reunion than the winner, because she's not charismatic enough.

That's how I see it at the moment. Burnett likes the emotional women of conscience and faith like Holly and Dawn, and now Lisa. (Burnett being married to Roma Downey, this makes sense to me.) Denise is tough and agile and smart and she stays in the loop, but she's not emotionally vulnerable. She has a great underdog story, but she lacks that quality of empathy -- at least to me.

As for Malcolm, it seems to me that he's the guy no one can let go to the finals. Like Ozzy, he probably falls short of that IC win he needs to control his own destiny. He's too good. Tandang doesn't hate him; Kalabaw doesn't hate him. He has to go. But he'll almost certainly be in the Finale episode, like Ozzy, giving fans (especially younger fans) hope that he'll win.

It's crucial that they get the ratings for the Finale, so they're going to keep selling us Malcolm as the golden boy until the point that the "boring old people" are the only ones left. Then bring out the jury drama.

I'm very cynical about Survivor in its old age. There was a time when it could tell a story on its own terms, but now it's all about numbers and not getting canceled. Has been for some time.

It's less important for the winner to have a great story arc than it is to get people to tune in through the end, promise the viewers whatever, tease them with false hope, just get them to watch and so what if they aren't pumped about the winner -- they watched, sponsors happy, happy ending.
Then they roll out the promos for next season, because hope springs eternal for another great season.

It actually is quite a good season now that the characters who all seemed alike to me are out the door, so I'm kidding somewhat. But I do expect the quality to drop now that Penner is gone. <sniff>


"RE: Thoughts on Malcolm"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-30-12 at 09:19 AM
I forgot to mention the specifics from this episode that made me feel even more that it was the story of Mike losing. Excuse me if I repeat. I'm just giving my pure impressions from watching.

It was made crystal clear that Mike and Lisa had a game changing choice. The issue of the jury resistance to a vet winning was resurrected. Mike would need to stand by Penner. He chose not to. He chose two people who weren't Tandang or Kalabaw from Day One who were free to play for themselves without being seen as betrayers.

Penner pointed out it was a stupid choice. While Malcolm was put on the spot when Penner pointed to the real threat in the room, it was Denise who was shown to survive due to that particular vote.

So I think that Mike and Lisa who stabbed an ally, Penner, and also Carter, will in the end lose to Denise, the person they saved by voting out Penner, who is supposedly a huge threat. Nice irony if it turns out that way.

As for Abi, I think her ruse about the clue would have been cut if it didn't buy her a little more shelf life.

We also see from the previews that the family visit will put a new spin on some characters. Malcolm's brother has a big mouth or something? Anyway, it looks like the beginning seeds of Malcolm's demise might be sprouting next time. I read somewhere that Malcolm admires JFP A lot.

Point being not to spoil ahead (I only watched the preview quickly), but to remember how quickly things can shift for a player. Once Penner is gone, Malcolm has no shield, so he won't be UTR at all any more, but the HII should protect him a couple more go rounds. Or is it F6 Like in Nicaragua? Only one more round then. His story arc should pick up a lot.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-30-12 at 07:07 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-30-12 AT 07:35 AM (EST)

VS is a remarkable person. She humbles me with her wholehearted devotion to wishing for a healthy and harmonious topic with many diverse opinions. Looking back at my PM's, I see that I wrote her about three years ago, begging her to post more, and that she said she wanted to in HvV.

The only place I think Veruca may be "in error" is that she is so conscious about when contributions to the topic dwindle, and tends to be concerned that she is overwhelming the topic, and will tiptoe away -- when I am sure we are happy to see as much of her analysis as she wishes to share!

Her opening analysis of Panama Exile Island still burns bright in my memory, and that was almost seven years ago.


"given a choice between two equally promising lines of play ... always choose the more elegant." ~ my Dad


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by puzzled11 on 11-30-12 at 02:59 PM
Yes, OG, I don' t think there's anything that VS has written that posterity hasn't been kind to. We really woul like some more, wouldn't we.

Re. Denise, I think the edit established the two crucial pairs for the season very early and so it shall come to pass. It now looks likely that the Malcolm /Denise pair will triumph but which one of the two? It's interesting that you say that Denise is the unemotional type because she has recently been portrayed as the emotional one, taking the cudgels up to Abi while Malcolm plays it cool and provides the empathy and the compassion! Not sure what it means overall for Denise's chances..

Re. Malcolm's apparent doubt stemming from the family visit, I think that it may be a good thing for him given his edit so far. Don't forget the world of strife Todd seemed to get into from his family visit and it still worked out OK for him.

Enjoyed your take on the 'politics' of the show. i hope your cynicism allows you to still enjoy the unpredictability that the show can theow up even after all these years!

Agree totally on Penner, as much as he deserved to lose the game once he made an error of such monumental proportions. Still, the game allowed him to depart on his own terms this time. BTW, I don't read post game interviews till the season is over, but the one thing I'd like to know from him is the reason for his Abi vote when Kent went. Has he given an explanation for this?


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by dabo on 11-30-12 at 03:33 PM
the one thing I'd like to know from him is the reason for his Abi vote when Kent went

Per his xfinity interview in his own words:

"A couple of reasons; I was playing for the jury. I knew that I was walking home with either Jeff or Pete. This way I could walk home with them and say, “I didn’t vote for you.” And then look at someone on the jury and say, “I didn’t vote for you.” Both would have been true. I was happy to stir the pot with Abi. I was supposed to be in a short-term alliance with them because I thought I was going home until that day. I was willing to work with anybody. When Abi and Pete said, “Let’s get rid of Jeff” I thought I’d do that if it keeps me alive. I didn’t want to vote for Jeff. Also, I thought Skupin was with us, so I thought we had the votes to get Pete and my vote would be extraneous. Unfortunately, Skupin did not vote the way he’d indicated that he was going to vote."



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by puzzled11 on 11-30-12 at 05:02 PM
Thanks Dabo. Much appreciated. Either way, it didn't end up being the greatest missed opportunity in the history of Survivor, lol. Which is strange because they normally don't leave in Probst's pronouncements if they turn out to be fizzers in hindsight...

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by mimo on 12-01-12 at 07:44 PM
Didn't Penner himself say something to the effect that he messed up the vote and lost an opportunity by voting for Abi? (This was in the beginning of the episode after Jeff got voted off.) I think they left Jeff P.'s comment in there to highlight Penner's "mistake." In actuality, it was an incredibly smart move. If Mike voted for Pete, Penner's vote was irrelevant. If Mike did not vote for Pete, then the vote ends up in a tie with the outcome potentially decided by purple rocks.

I suspect Penner thought through both possible outcomes and just pretended to the others that he had confused the target. The casual viewer probably wouldn't notice and so they put in the "missed opportunities" assessment which was pretty much Penner's epitaph for the season.



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 12-02-12 at 00:25 AM
Great summation!

Penner: I screwed it up? Oh nooo ...


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 12-01-12 at 00:26 AM
Thanks dabo! I was curious about that move too!
If Jeff hears that from Penner, he may be a bit ticked off at Skupin.

puzzled, I'm not following any of the news this season -- no interviews, no press, no Insider, no Ponderosa (yet), not reading the spoiling and spec here either. I've been watching the episodes cold now that the CBS Fantasy game is defunct, just for a different type of viewing. But decided to catch up a little here this week.

Penner is a Facebook friend as of this season, so I see his posts in my news feed. From that I know that his beloved dog was ill before the episode aired, but I haven't heard a lot of comments from him on his strategy. I may have missed some though. I don't read everything that comes through on Facebook. He might say more now that he's out of the game.

I have watched every episode of every season of Survivor. It's always been part of my approach to spoiling to remember the show endures due to commerce as much or more than our love of the editor's art.

I have never understood the mantra that a winner's edit makes us feel that the win is right through its careful manipulation. I have been unhappy with the winner in most seasons. Sometimes my fave goes out in the Finale before the final TC; sometimes I don't like the jury vote. Rarely am I going YAY!

The Finale is the only episode where it takes most of a bottle of wine to get me through it. I have most times felt that the editors do an excellent job of letting the winner's story reflect the winner's game, warts and all. A couple that I felt were highly manipulated were Bob and Natalie. In a few cases I've felt the winner was shafted on story.

Which reminds me, Guatemala was another season where the main story was why StephaMe didn't win, rather than why Danni did.

"given a choice between two equally promising lines of play ... always choose the more elegant." ~ my Dad


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by dabo on 12-01-12 at 01:40 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-01-12 AT 01:55 AM (EST)

Condencing down what I've read in Penner interviews per his strategy:

Over-all: He wanted to play as clean a game as possible and never lied to anyone except to tell them he didn't think he could beat them and win the game, which of course he totally believed.

Pre-merge/post-merge: He didn't know about Jeff Kent's MLB career, thought he and Jeff made a good team, didn't know that Jeff was poisoning the well against him until he saw it on TV, though he knew something was in the wind.

He didn't know Lisa was a former child television star until Denise asked him if he knew her, he's never seen an episode of "Facts of Life." It's not really that big a secret.

Post-merge: He couldn't get the numbers and knew he had to play his idol. Tried several different ways to get the numbers but because Denise had her own plan going (and Jeff was still poisoning the well against him which at the time he did not know), he was in scramble mode. That lasted through the next cycle where he won II but lost his ally Jeff, and into the next cycle, when the numbers finally came together thanks to Skupin.

He had a pretty good jury management strategy in place and didn't think anyone else really did, they were all playing just to survive.

And, basically, in the end he didn't want to tell Lisa a lie when he didn't think he needed to lie. When she came to him with the F3 offer he already thought he had a secure F3 pact with Carter and Skupin.


"Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-01-12 at 03:36 PM
Previously, on Survivor, after being bullied by her former alliance, Lisa jumped ship…
….Leaving Pete and Abi powerless.
Meanwhile, Lisa and Shupin were in search of a new alliance…
…but after Penner passed, Malcolm and Denise jumped on the chance, agreeing to a Final 4 pact.
Lisa: “I think he missed an opportunity.”

At the immunity challenge, Carter won, putting Pete and Abi on the chopping block.

But, at Tribal Council, it was only Abi who took a beating.
Denise: “I’ve spent much of my life with people that are helpful, they are kind, many qualities that are not a part of who Abi is.”
It only got worse for Abi when she played her idol and watched her closest ally leave this game.

This recap is a clear indication of tampering with the story. In the previous episode, we had seen Malcolm talk about the Final 4 alliance first but here it was presented as Lisa and Mike’s idea while Malcolm and Denise “jumped on the chance”. That is powerful manipulation to portray Lisa and Mike as the strategic players. “Jumped on” even suggests riding coat tails and those with short term memory loss (90% of the audience!) were being told to favor Lisa and Mike.

Also, while many didn’t agree that the last TC was unfavorable to Denise and was meant to draw sympathy towards Abi, the recap should have removed any argument. “Abi took a beating” and only Denise was shown putting her down. Jeff’s harsh words were omitted for a reason: Without them, Denise was shown as the only one giving that beating to Abi! Also, Abi’s interruptions disappeared, leaving only Denise’s trashing. This seems sufficient to eliminate Denise from contention. Viewers want to see someone nice winning but we were being told that Denise wasn’t nice at all.

The Dilemma

Day – 28

The first scene showed Mike asking Abi if she was OK.
She said people had been brutal which caused a raised eyebrow from Jonathan and a facepalm from Denise.

Denise: “Abi was sitting by the fire with Michael and, as we are overhearing it, it’s just more of the same. She’s just continues the reign of negative, grumpy Abi. Between, Malcolm, Michael, Lisa and I, we have our solid four. Abi is the one going next unless she miraculously wins immunity which I doubt, but if she does somehow have immunity, Jonathan’s made it this far, he’s a great player so next we’d probably vote out Jonathan.”

If the recap wasn’t sufficient to eliminate Denise then the editors reinforced the point: Where Mike looked sympathetic, Denise added another layer and then she turned her sights on Jonathan, a well-liked player that was part of her Kalabaw alliance. Knowing how the episode turned out, we can say that the editors didn’t so much credit Denise for eliminating Jonathan but tainted her with the blame for eliminating a fan favorite. Many must have said: No! Not Jonathan. Why not Carter?

Abi and Malcolm went to get tree mail.
Seeing Abi cry, Malcolm said he wanted to hug her last night.

Malcolm: “Last night, it was like the tribe decided to lay Abi down in the middle of the road and roll over her with a bus then back up and do it over again. She just got destroyed.” At Abi’s mention of Denise, Malcolm said: “Denise was rough” which was captioned to make sure we heard it. Malcolm’s confessional continued: “Abi is so unself-aware that’s it’s hard not to feel a little sympathy for her when she’s breaking down. So, my heart goes out to her a little bit.”

This should be the final nail in Denise’s chances to win the game when her closest ally, another fan favorite, tells the audience that we should feel sympathy for Abi while Denise was rough.

Abi had a confessional after reading Tree Mail: “I am the most unliked person on this island right now…At today’s auction, I am just going to sit tight and hold my money and hope for the right opportunity to use my money for getting ahead. They are not going to stop me now. I’m going to fight, I am a fighter, I am a Survivor!”

The Auction
Denise purchased pancakes for $500 which made Mike say: ‘That’s $1.99 at the local dinner.”
Mike got cheese and wine for $500 which surprised Malcolm since Mike doesn’t drink.
Malcolm got doughnuts for $200
Abi told Jeff she wasn’t bidding because she’d be eating soon.
Jonathan got a covered item for $100. It turned out to be fried chicken, making Jonathan smile from ear to ear!
Carter got a baked potato for $200 but he traded it in for rice and beans for everyone.
For $320, Lisa was happy to see that she bought a gigantic sandwich.
When Jeff presented “an advantage in this game” Abi immediately said: $500.
Jeff told her she could read it in camp and commended her for being in the game.
For the last item, Carter got a couple of veal shanks that he had to share with the entire tribe.

It wasn’t a very funny auction as far as Survivor goes. No one was made to look foolish even if there were comments that Denise and Mike spent too much money too soon. Everyone got something so it seems there are no hints to help us here. To show that nothing important happened, the first words we heard back in camp was Jonathan saying: “Everybody was a winner.”

Lisa (solo): “…Everybody was happy but, just as we were sharing in the joy of this experience, Penner and Abi get into this conversation which shuts us totally down…I’m sorry but it’s really hard not to laugh at some of the things she says.”

Jonathan: “The more bitter, the more obnoxious, the more toxic Abi is, the better for me. The easier it is to say: We have to get rid of her. The six of us will figure it out from there.”

The scene ended with a hug between Abi and Jonathan.

Abi also had a confessional: “Everything that they are saying, I am taking with a grain of salt. I think people are starting to feel like they need to start communicating with me somehow because they don’t know what kind of tool that I have in my hands. The tool being the item that I bought at the auction. They realize that I have an advantage in the game…This note could possibly change my game if I play my cards right. I can do whatever I want with this note, I can tell them whatever I have to for it to work in my favor. I am going to have to put fear in them and break their alliance with this power that I may have. I have a lot better chance that I had before.”

The next day started with a new confessional from Abi: “This morning, I woke up and I woke up very ambitious. I woke up with the feeling that I am not going to go out without fighting. They had a lot of problems with me being such an honest person. They asked for this: Now, it’s time for me to lie. I will outplay them. I will be creating a fantasy 4th immunity idol. So, I’ve been trying to be sneaky, plant some seeds. I’ll either go out graciously or I stay in the game as a very smart, hard working fighter. A warrior really.”

She tried to talk to Malcolm who gave us the confessional of the evening: “Abi is like having a girlfriend that won’t leave even after you’ve broken up with her. She’s bitter, she hasn’t forgiven you and you’re not getting the benefits of having a girlfriend around anymore so it’s the worst situation possible.”

Abi told Malcolm she had the 4th idol.

The Immunity Challenge

Abi had a confessional to explain her ruse: “I know I can’t use Probst as a tool at all because he needs to keep the game fair (!) but I am still going to carry on with my fake idol.”

She told everyone there were two parts to the note and would only read the part about the challenge.
Probst simply said: “OK.”

Lisa was the first one eliminated.
Carter and Penner joined Abi in the finals.

Mike told everyone that Abi couldn’t climb but to watch how good her knee was.
It was funny to see the four members of the alliance all together watching this unfold.

Everyone was rooting for Carter but Abi was flying through the structure.
I laughed out loud when she came down the pole to claim immunity. Funniest moment of the season.
Denise didn’t find it funny: “You gotta be freaking kidding me. I want to throw up.”
Jeff gave Abi the necklace and commented on her journey.

Day – 30

Malcolm: “Hell hath forzen over. Abi won immunity today. She spent $500 on an advantage and it paid off for her…I had to act all upset about like it’s the worst thing in the world but inside I just smiled because I couldn’t ask for a more convenient excuse to get a real threat in this game which is Penner.”

We saw the four gather in the woods and Malcolm saying it would be Penner.

After Denise, it’s now Malcolm’s turn to target Penner without provocation. They had voted together earlier on but that didn’t count anymore.

Lisa reacted by saying she just wasn’t cut out for this game.

Lisa: “I’m in such a huge inner conflict. I mean, I like Denise and Malcolm but I really have a heart connection with Carter and Penner. I’m going to hurt somebody I care about. I love this game…but I think I am not cut out for it.”

At first, this story line served to set Lisa’s journey but now it sounds as the reason why she will lose jury votes. It won’t be a question of being liked or not, it will be because she is so bad at this game. She learned something about herself that can help her outside the game but not in it.

In the shelter with Penner, she told him she wasn’t good at this game because she couldn’t keep the decision quiet and couldn’t lie to him.
Jonathan asked her to take a walk.
She reminded him of the F3 offer and that, after he declined someone else came to her.
Jonathan could only ask: “Am I going home?”
She said she was told to write his name. She added she didn’t want to so she hoped he could work his magic.

Jonathan (solo): “Lisa, once again, lost her mind and she confessed to me that she was in another alliance, that she is voting for me tonight and, I guess to her credit, she is going to stick by her guns. She will not be swayed. I think her guns are ridiculous. Lisa got played and that is to Denise and Malcolm’s credit. Now, my mistake was that I was playing both ends against the middle without making any commitments to anybody. That was probably my mistake: I did not choose a side.” He told Carter and Abi to vote out Denise and Abi was on board. Jonathan’s confessional continued: “People are a little weary about Malcolm because of his idol and he’s aligned tightly with Denise so we will now vote for Denise.”

Jonathan went to Mike saying: “Unfortunately for you, my brilliant, wise old chum, you put yourself in the driver’s seat and have to decide who you want to go forward with.”
Mike agreed: “The proverbial swing vote.”

Mike (solo): “Tribal Council day is a zoo. My dilemma is that I am going to make three people very happy tonight and I am going to upset three people. I am potentially going to win three jury votes and lose three jury votes at the same time. So, am I in a better group to win this game with Lisa, Denise and Malcolm or Abi, Carter and Penner. The closer it gets to the Final three, the more I realize it’s a pretty big deal. I believe strongly that I can beat Penner in the Final three.”

His confessional ended like that but since he voted to eliminate Penner then he had to say more, had to analyze other options. For one thing; a way to avoid having angry jurors is to take them to the end. Did Mike say he’d want to have Abi sitting next to him in the end? It would fit in well with the thoughts we were allowed to hear. “I believe strongly that I can beat Penner in the final three…but I know I can easily beat Abi.” And Mike would know that Abi will always be on board with eliminating Denise.

Tribal Council

Abi told Jeff it was her plan all along to get the Auction’s advantage.
Jeff turned to Denise saying the last TC was brutal on Abi.
Denise denied it by saying: “What was perceived as brutal was simply a group of people whose tolerance had reached its maximum.”
Artis shook his head.
Asked about the vibe in camp, Jonathan said that it was crazy and that lines had been drawn. “I believe Denise and Malcolm shook hands with Lisa and Skupin.”
He went on pleading his case, saying he was trustworthy and loyal.
Malcolm said he didn’t trust her enough to make an alliance.
Jonathan explained that Lisa had voted against him twice. He added that they didn’t have a shot at the million if they aligned with the two Matsings.
Malcolm didn’t want to argue with Penner or force Lisa’s hand but they did have a bond.
Lisa said she was going to hurt people she cared about.
Jonathan countered: “You vote me out tonight, you are giving a million dollars to one of these two.”
Jeff asked Lisa if this dilemma compared to any situation in her life.
She said it did but would not talk about it.
She agreed that her decision could disappoint herself.
Asked if it was difficult for him, Mike said he’d want to be friends with everyone after the game which caused Abi to roll her eyes but he wanted to play to win so there was some validity to what Penner said.

With that, Jeff sent them to the voting booth.
Denise was the first voter, getting a grimace from Abi.
Jonathan made his vote clear, yelling Denise from the booth!
Once again, Mike was the last voter shown, his dilemma lasting until the very end as we saw him fiddling with the pen.

After getting his torch snuffed, Jonathan took his time to leave but, once he was gone, Jeff said: “This game is clearly up for grabs.”
As he said this, the camera showed:


The Story


Mike and Jeff both mentionned the episode’s dilemma and it gave us an opportunity to see how the Prisonner’s Dilemma, a version of Game Theory, could have been edited into this episode’s story. In an iterative game such as Survivor where each Tribal Council can be seen as a repetition of the dilemma, it’s proven that playing “nice” has an advantage if and only if it’s accompanied by retaliation: Tit for tat. Could it be that, when Penner said the viewers would want to see nice people winning the game, we were supposed to understand it as the editors pointing to playing “nice” according to Game Theory? I’d like to think so.

We saw that Skupin and Lisa applied this strategy while Malcolm and Denise didn’t: Skupin and Lisa had played once with Penner and he had chosen not to cooperate with them. Therefore, the best move for Mike and Lisa was to “retaliate”, to betray Penner. Malcolm and Denise betrayed Penner on the first occasion, without provocation. Malcolm even said he was happy that Abi won IC to be able to betray Penner and their Final 6 deal.

So, now, with the pairs of Malcolm/Denise and Mike/Lisa having cooperated once, what is their next best move? At one point, it will be more advantageous to betray the other so how will it be presented? I wouldn’t be surprised to see one pair show a lack of cooperation first and the other profitting later when they retaliate. Since the dilemma was introduced in Mike’s story, I would expect that he, once again, should be shown getting the better result.

The Characters

Abi: It’s remarkable that, in an episode where a Survivor legend would take his final bow, Abi was the star. We didn't have to hear her strategy in such intricate details and we certainly didn’t need to hear Probst acknowledging her game THREE times (at the auction: he said she had her head in the game) at the challenge (he not only congratulated her which would be normal but he mentioned her incredible journey) and at TC were he let the jury hear him praising her. Each one, to me, sounded like a jab at Denise who told us she wanted to throw up when she saw Abi win immunity. Usually, when a “villain” is in the middle of his downward spiral, we do not hear the host’s praises. Jaime in Guatemala who had a redemption arc before leaving got only fleeting nice words when he did nice things to make amends. So there must be more to Abi’s story. Maybe we heard her talk of the 4th idol because it will come into play, it will fool someone.

Denise: For all the negativity we have seen in her story lately, we cannot forget that she once had the best story of the season. Even with Malcolm at her side, it was Denise that was the star of the pre-merge. However, this is the important act and great pre-merge stories have come to a crashing end before to let the winner’s story emerge.
We did hear once more that Denise would win hands down if they let her make it to the end so we can’t totally ignore her chances but there was a lot of manipulation done to make Denise look bad and there was very little done to prevent the viewers from thinking: “I hope it’s Denise that gets the boot, not Penner.” The only time Survivor did that to its winner was Jenna and she was up against a deaf girl.
Finally, on a more pragmatic note, Denise wasn't shown doing anything to save herself once she was put on the block. We didn’t see her talk to Mike or Lisa to insure their votes and she didn’t intervene during TC. Winners are usually shown defending themselves when they are on the block.

Lisa: The end of the journey is painful and I am not sure if it’s more painful for her or for us. She once had the potential of being the fan favorite but now? She is a bad player and she’s starting to bring the mood down more than Abi ever did. Not an easy thing to do! Lisa is losing her mind out there and we can only sit and watch…and watch…

Malcolm: I once thought that JT was too good to be true, that something would surely happen so that he’d get the boot before reaching the end. I was horribly wrong then and I may be wrong again here. This season’s golden boy is in a great position to win the game and all the notes that I have taken that make me think he doesn’t win could be turned upside down to make the case that he does win. We saw him creating the Final 4 deal, we know he is listening carefully to use his idol correctly, he was distanced from Denise’s negativity by his words to Abi at tree mail and he still has a shield in Carter, another young athlete that needs to be removed in the next 3 votes…or will it be 4?
The only thing that still makes me think that he won’t win is that it was too easy for Malcolm. Even during Matsing’s days of horror, he was never in danger and, as soon as he switched, he was adopted by the clique. Matsing’s problems were more part of Denise’s story than his. To me, the season seemed destined to an older player but maybe that’s why we heard Denise saying he was mature beyond his years.

Mike: After the Dog that Didn’t Bark and the Rise of the Phoenix, we now see the Prisonner’s Dilemma as part of Mike’s story. The problem is that we have no idea if the editors were also thinking along those lines or if it’s only the fruit of my imagination. All I can say to defend the idea is that it could have been the line of thought of editors knowing the result that Mike won.
What is undeniable though is that Mike had a great premiere, a great merge episode and, while his showing in episodes 2 to 5 was weak, he has been the central character of the game since the merge, the fulcrum, the swing vote.
He doesn’t have the biggest story but the first post merge vote put him in danger of being eliminated so, with Lisa’s help, he rallied and then he was the key vote in eliminating Kent, Artis, Pete and now Penner.
The last was a difficult decision and it underlined the dilemma that players face in this game. Most often than not, the tough decisions are shown through the eyes of the winner so this episode reinforces our opinion that Mike wins.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by dabo on 12-01-12 at 11:54 PM
Oh * My * Heck!

They spent two weeks doing as hard a sell as they could that Abi is a villain (which, yeah, that's kinda amusing; but it is what they did). And yet you are still insisting on this negative Denise nonsense.

It's a good thing when a villain takes a beating, that's what villains are for. Those who deliver the beating are heroic. But Abi is a gurl so it had to be a gurl who delivered Abi a beating. Because guys don't beat up on gurls and end up heroic, usually.

So, it had to be either Denise or Lisa, the emotional wreck story. Damn, I bet if it had been Lisa who delivered Abi a beating you would be all kinds of getting it and you go girl and stuff.

But no, it was Denise who was the hero. And you can't stand it for some reason? Too manly or too girl power?

J/K a bit, but I think you are really misreading the Denise thing.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Sheldor on 12-02-12 at 03:12 AM
dabo wrote:

>J/K a bit, but I think you are really misreading the Denise thing.

Hmm... I 100% agree with michel's analysis of Denise's edit. I was a BIG fan of Denise until the last two weeks which I felt was character assassination for Denise.

Jeff: "... and at Tribal Council it was ONLY Abi that took a beating"

Denise's smug condescending tilt of the head at the end of her tirades against Abi really are distasteful.

I thought last week was REALLY bad for Denise; had me in tears for Abi but this week the editor's decided to pile on even more negative edit for Denise. I highly doubt a winner would be treated like that!


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by dabo on 12-02-12 at 03:36 AM
Oh, but consider it if a man were taking on a man, not a gurl taking on a gurl. Hero wallops villain, yay!

Seriously, how many seasons have we had the complaint they don't know how to edit wimminz? Oh yeah, all of them. Denise is getting a man edit.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by mimo on 12-02-12 at 02:08 PM
I agree with you Dabo. My take is that Denise is the teller of uncomfortable truths (isn't that a big part of therapy in fact -- getting people to face uncomfortable truths?) Denise's assessment of Abi is one that the audience should agree with (and just in case the audience were to forget we were shown Abi bullying Lisa right before Denise's words from the previous tribal council were replayed.) We might feel sorry for Abi because she is all alone but given her actions for the entire season my conclusion is that she had it coming (Karma's a b... and all that..)

In terms of manipulation, two scenes stuck out at me. The first was Denise's initial confessional when she lays out what happens during the episode ("we're voting out Abi unless she wins immunity and then target is Penner" or something to that effect.) In the middle when she states that Abi could win immunity there is "but I highly doubt it" that was spliced in from another confessional. (The confessional starts out with Denise fully clothed, jumps to a bit where she is sitting in the water in her bathing suit, and then jumps back.) This could support Michel's argument that Denise is now becoming toxic, but in my mind she was stating what we the audience were thinking (Abi has never been impressive in challenges.)

The second scene that was highly manipulated was Penner's conversation with Abi following the auction. That must have been a very long discussion because we see Denise and Carter standing toward the side, then they disappear, then the entire group is sitting in front of them, and then Denise and Carter are back on the side. Visually, to me, this was Denise not engaging Abi and just leaving her in peace. This was emphasized in her words to Jeff at Tribal Council -- I don't have the full text but it was something to the effect that what Jeff perceived as rough treatment was a group of people that had been pushed to the limit. I saw it as not quite an apology but an explanation. I agree that Denise's edit has taken a negative turn lately but nothing worse than others who have gone on to win (for example, Kim's manipulation of Troyzan last season.)

Lisa by contrast has become one hot mess. She's gone from the emotional player that wants to do the right thing but is willing to follow the goats to the final, to the "I must be loyal to my alliance and ignore the people I like." So now she has a "heart connection" to Carter? Where the heck did that come from? (And can we meet this Carter, he seems like an interesting person--not whoever it is that is actually on my TV screen...) Lisa further goes on to compare Abi to a pig (not that she "means to call Abi a pig"--but she does a good job of implying that.) That to me was a significantly more negative turn than Denise.

Watching this episode, I conclude that there are 3 players that could pull it off: Denise, Malcolm, and Michael. From the post show interviews, however, I get the impression that Michael was not well liked (or at least there was some incident with Artis that occurred) and so I don't think he'll be able to pull out the jury votes. We've had Penner state that he thinks either Malcolm or Denise will win it if they get to the jury. I agree with Penner.



"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Sheldor on 12-03-12 at 00:48 AM
mimo wrote:

>Lisa by contrast has become one hot mess.

>So now she has a "heart connection" to Carter?
>Where the heck did that come from?

Lisa and Skupin are both Christian motivational speakers. Carter went to school (K-12 I assume) at Maranatha Christian Academy in Shawnee, KS where his mother Bianca (who is Carter's loved one visitor) is the cross country coach and his brother is a coach there too. Carter went to college at BIOLA a private Christian university in Southern California.

So I would guess that Lisa, Skupin and Carter all bonded over their shared faith.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by suzzee on 12-03-12 at 09:17 AM
This is an interesting point Sheldor, and it strikes me as something to consider in jury votes. One of them would benefit greatly from putting the other two on the jury to guarantee a couple of dependable votes. I wonder if the Artis/Mike disagreement had something to do with Artis considering Mike saying or doing something that Artis believes is not what someone a Christian motivational speaker would do.


Coronation by Tribe


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by mimo on 12-04-12 at 00:21 AM
Sheldor,

That's interesting insight -- thanks for sharing (and I'm amazed at your researching skills!!!) I wonder who Carter annoyed in the production team to be so ignored story wise.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-04-12 at 01:54 AM
>I wonder who Carter annoyed in the production team
>to be so ignored story wise.

A likely 6th place finish (or at best 5th place), dumb comments such as "I thought they were voting you out tonight?" (as said to Kent), and also what Katie Hanson said about Carter in her post-game Xfinity interview with Gordon Holmes:

"Hanson: I think all of us can agree on this; he had nothing to talk about. He had nothing to say..... He was just so boring. He didn’t have much character to him. And I couldn’t respect him because all he’d do is follow Jeff around."


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-04-12 at 08:05 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-04-12 AT 08:08 PM (EST)

I think Kathie was using the edit to spin the story to her advantage. From almost everyone that has ever attended a Survivor get-together, all the contestants have something to offer. None of them would make it on the show if they weren't interesting.

I figure the problem with Carter in Kalabaw was due to Kathie, Dawson and Dana's constant talk about sex. Insider clips told us that was their main, if not only, subject of discussion. A religious guy like Carter would have problems around the "girls gone wild" attitude in camp.

Carter's invisibility is simply due to the editors' need to have an acceptable boot. No one will cry when he leaves.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by puzzled11 on 12-02-12 at 06:40 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-02-12 AT 06:44 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 12-02-12 AT 06:42 AM (EST)

Kudos on an imaginative application of the Prisoners Dilemma, Michel, although I'm not sure how it mitigates the horrible (for him) editing decision to have Mike say that he can beat Penner at the end only to have him vote Penner out immediately afterwards. To speculate that he may have provided explanations but that the editors decided not to show them only makes his predicament more damning.

To me the episode was about providing instant retribution for Penner's bone-headed move the previous episode. You say that:

"This recap is a clear indication of tampering with the story. In the previous episode, we had seen Malcolm talk about the Final 4 alliance first but here it was presented as Lisa and Mike’s idea while Malcolm and Denise “jumped on the chance”. That is powerful manipulation to portray Lisa and Mike as the strategic players. “Jumped on” even suggests riding coat tails and those with short term memory loss (90% of the audience!) were being told to favor Lisa and Mike."


However, to me, the recap had nothing to do with anything else other than highlighting that Penner made a terrible move to refuse Lisa & Mike's offer and to set up Penner's demise.

I love Penner but let's not mince words. It was a terrible case of over-thinking and it cost him the game. And it continues a long series of instances of over-thinking and over-playing which have been edited as costly errors. Starting with Zane and continuing with Russell, RC, Abi, Pete, Kent, Lisa and now Penner, the edit has frowned on big unnecessary moves.

This is the context that Malcolm's game should be seen. He's let the game come to him, has avoided unnecessary moves and only acted (with devastating efficiency) when the situation demanded it. His confessional after Abi's IC win sums up his play brilliantly:

"I had to act all upset about like it’s the worst thing in the world but inside I just smiled because I couldn’t ask for a more convenient excuse to get a real threat in this game which is Penner.”

You saw this as bad for Malcolm because he targeted Penner, having previously allied with him; I saw it as Malcolm being edited to explain that he saw it as taking what the game gave him: An opportunity to vote off yet another dangerous threat without having to take any responsibility for voting them off.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-02-12 at 12:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-02-12 AT 12:26 PM (EST)

"Kudos on an imaginative application of the Prisoners Dilemma, Michel, although I'm not sure how it mitigates the horrible (for him) editing decision to have Mike say that he can beat Penner at the end only to have him vote Penner out immediately afterwards. To speculate that he may have provided explanations but that the editors decided not to show them only makes his predicament more damning."

Thank you Puzzled,

I don't see it as damning for Mike because the editors had to preserve the suspense of the upcoming vote. Had they added words along those I suggested or anything that implied that Mike saw other options then the whole audience would have known that Jonathan was toast and would have been ready to turn out the lights.

"to me, the recap had nothing to do with anything else other than highlighting that Penner made a terrible move to refuse Lisa & Mike's offer and to set up Penner's demise."

Maybe but the recap is the most heavily edited portion of the program and, as Veruca used to say, the choice of words is very important. "Malcolm jumped at the offer" is much less favorable than "Malcolm organized a solid alliance of four" which actually would have been closer to the truth.

Jonathan is one the best characters ever but one of the worst players. His game in CI and Micronesia was just as bad. However, you can't say: "the edit has frowned on big unnecessary moves" in connection to Jonathan's demise this time. In fact, he was booted because he DIDN'T make the big move to join the F3. The edit made that clear.

And, as FP notes below, going with the flow of the game is Mike's theme. While Malcolm can be seen as borrowing it, the theme still relates to Mike until he is voted out.



"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-02-12 at 11:12 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-02-12 AT 11:13 AM (EST)

What is undeniable though is that Mike had a great premiere, a great merge episode and he has been the central character of the game since the merge, the fulcrum, the swing vote.
He doesn’t have the biggest story but the first post merge vote put him in danger of being eliminated so, with Lisa’s help, he rallied and then he was the key vote in eliminating Kent, Artis, Pete and now Penner.
The last was a difficult decision and it underlined the dilemma that players face in this game. Most often than not, the tough decisions are shown through the eyes of the winner so this episode reinforces our opinion that Mike wins.

While I don't know if Mike will win or not, I do see that a mighty strong case for him is clearly being presented.

He told us this in the very beginning of the game:

My strategy coming in to this was to make sure that you go with the game.

Then, he continued to apply that: If your tribe is moving slow, move slow with them, don’t jump out in the lead… The three younger people move fast so I feel that I have to move fast with them or I’m in big trouble.

He also exemplified his game approach as "going with it" with:

I love Lisa. From an age standpoint, I fit with her more and I’m waiting for her to start playing, to start bonding. If her name comes up in a discussion about who should be voted out first, I don’t want it to be her but, if I want to be with the team that’s playing the game, I got to go with the game as opposed to your heart.

He also exemplified playing game with the "team" that's playing the game, going with the game as opposed to the heart. I feel like this last episode exemplified this exactly. He ended up going with the "people" who were playing the game, namely Malcolm then Denise rather than Penner, while his heart, HE, would rather have kept Penner.

He not only stated his game approach, but we've seen him apply it time and time again.

Mike is indeed looking like he could just pull it out. And, boy, what a contrast to the first game that he played!




"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-02-12 at 12:39 PM
That sums it up nicely, FP!

You show that there is a well-constructed plan behind Mike's edit. Since the merge, I've been thinking that this plan is too nicely put together for someone that would lose the final vote.

It's not a plan to make him fan favorite like Malcolm or to get ratings like Lisa, Denise and Abi's dramas and it's certainly not to promote Mike for a returning season. This has to be it for Mike so, when the strategy is shown through his eyes, it tells me that it's his season.

Some will add: His season to lose and rely on that to see Denise win but as good as it looked premerge, I think her edit soured too much lately.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by CTgirl on 12-02-12 at 05:38 PM
You have constructed a nice case for Skupin and on one hand I absolutely think you are right. As much as I hate to say it, I feel Denise's edit has taken a turn for the worse, and I am fully on the Denise-band wagon.

I am however, on board with Mimo, having trouble seeing Mike win based on all the comments from the exit interviews. He sounds like a jerk, a back stabber and a buffoon if you believe what the last few bootees have said! Of course, exit interviews are not included in the edit so I am interested to see how Mike pulls off a win, if he does win. I am starting to think that perhaps all 3 people in the final 3, if there is a final 3, get votes or its a really close vote in a final 2. I could see both Denise and Lisa getting votes at the final tribal council.

Does anyone else think that this season seems more manipulated than usual?


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by beaglemaster on 12-02-12 at 07:52 PM
I too am fully on the Denise band wagon, so I can not see her loosing at an F3 jury vote. However the edit is looking more and more grim for her and has strengthened my opinion that there will be an F2 jury vote with Denise having lost at F3 IC. That is the only way I can see that she can't win over the the remaining survivors.

As far as my thoughts on manipulation of this season, No not really. Actually seems mild compared to any season with a Hantz on it.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 12-02-12 at 10:26 PM
There are 3 episodes left, F6, F5, with the Finale on Dec 16th (per CBS Press Release).

F3 seasons have F5 in the Finale.
The last F2 season was Tocantins, and it began with F4. Taj, Erinn, F2.

So yeah, it is highly unlikely to be a F3, and also they have 9 full days left, which also works out to 3-3-1-1-1.

What if Lisa and Denise are F2? Has that been considered?
Do you guys think Skupin and Lisa are F2?

It sure is hard to imagine Denise losing a F3 challenge to Skupin or Lisa, but it could be something random that requires the same abilities that gave Skupin the win at the merge IC. Plate-balancing again or something?

If it required sheer physical toughness, I would bank on Denise.

Re Denise's bad edit with scolding Abi -- not for this mom. A spoiled girl with no self-awareness gets a dose of social reality. What's not to like?

Call the whaaambulance, Abi. I wouldn't have been able to do it myself, but that's what makes it enjoyable to see someone else step up to it.

Anyhow, the promos from last week called ABI "most hated Survivor ever." It's not BAD to tell off the most hated player in 25 seasons. Tina gave Jerri and Keith a time out, and people cheered.

If the promo verbiage had showed sympathy to Abi, that would be one thing. But the message has been -- the worst thing the castaways have had to endure has been surviving Abi for 30 days and counting. Denise tells it like it is. Pete and Abi probably don't like it and might not vote for her, although Pete knows ... The rest?

If they cringed, maybe they were imagining Denise having to stay in camp with Abi afterwards and thinking, wow, I wouldn't want to be Denise.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by parathor on 12-04-12 at 02:41 PM
Denise hasn't had a "cut to commercial" moment since her original tribe. She beat on the villain, but she didn't do it like a hero would - she did it like another villain would.

(and no compassion for the foreigner? Not very culturally competent, there, Denise...)

If the "exit interviews" are pointing towards Mike hatred, then they should show that on the screen. I think that's another plus he has in his column, that he's being shown in a positive light.

If Denise wins, then we're left with another Sophie-like winner... not the real star, kinda/sorta aligned with the people who should win... I hope they don't do that to us again.

Votes for Mike:
- RC
- Pete? (depending on if Abi or Malcolm are at the end)
- Kent (per his "returning players cant win!" blubbering)
- Penner (he wouldnt vote for backstabbers)
...so he just needs 1 (2?) more votes, either of Lisa (yes), Abi (maybe), Denise (maybe), Malcolm (maybe), and Carter (?). It's a lot of maybes, but he's got a better head-start than anyone else.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by tikigirlie on 12-04-12 at 05:46 PM
I don't think Kent or Penner would vote for Skupin ifDenise were still in the mix.

Even though Denise voted against Penner twice, I don't think he is holding that against her. He realized that she was going to vote with Malcolm in the first merge vote to protect their alliance.

I think Kent has a stronger relationship with Denise than he does with either of the other two.

For me, the story for Denise is that she has gone to EVERY TRIBAL COUNCIL and come out with her torch each time.

All of this goes to heck in a F2. I am personally hoping that it is a F4 Finale and F3 FTC with an incredibly LONG, angry, jury questioning session. I think in front of a jury Lisa and Mike falter.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-04-12 at 07:59 PM
The F3 is a cop-out. Always was, always will be.

"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Sheldor on 12-07-12 at 08:43 PM
Outfrontgirl wrote:

>There are 3 episodes left, F6, F5, with the Finale on
>Dec 16th (per CBS Press Release).
>
>F3 seasons have F5 in the Finale.

Except for China which was Final 3 but started the Finale with Final 4 not Final 5. China Finale had a Reward Challenge and then Immunity Challenge to get down to the Final 3.

>So yeah, it is highly unlikely to be a F3

I originally agreed with this but now Jeff on EW.com in regard to sequestering the jury "It’s too expensive and we’d need 8 separate places to keep them." and his tease he says: "Will she drive people nuts enough to vote her out or can she annoy her way to the final three?" (Sounds like Jury of 8 and Final 3)

And the Cheat Tweet says: "A million dollars is within reach for 1 of the 5 remaining castaways. Who deserves 2 make final 3?"

So it sure seems like it will be a Final 3. Also there are those 3 people standing at the end of the Intro Credits...


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-08-12 at 11:58 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-08-12 AT 04:28 PM (EST)

Sheldor: As always, thanks for posting this in here, regarding the F3. I find it interesting that CBS and Jiffy make notes, nods to the "most deserving". Last year, EW posed an interesting question that I noted in the ECST. Here is what they asked, and how Jiffy answered:

EW: For viewers, the debate often seems to boil down to whether to root for the most deserving player — which at this point appears to be Kim — or to root for unpredictability and a tribal shake-up. As a producer, what’s more important: to have a great winner (like Tom in Palau or Boston Rob in Redemption Island) or to have lots of big shake-ups along the way (like in Survivor: Amazon)?
JP: Great question. Hard to answer that other than to say — you want the ending to be satisfying. Though Boston Rob dominated the entire game, for most people his win was satisfying. Had there been a crazy shake up at the end and the lovely young Natalie won, not sure it would have been satisfying. The perfect ending gives you great drama at TC but the person you want to win.

This year, regarding the upcoming episode, Jiffy replied with a tease:

Probst: We’re at the point in the show where who you vote out is as important as who you decide to keep. Abi is the wild card. Will she drive people nuts enough to vote her out or can she annoy her way to the final three? It’s a great ending

I do believe that he means it's a great ending to this upcoming episode, in other words, the most deserving players persevere and most likely there will be drama at the TC. For me, the least deserving players would be Abi and Lisa, and wouldn't it be really fun if Lisa was sent packing? As the apparent journey player, perhaps she could, but as Mike's F2, I don't think she will. So, for me, I am leaning toward all the preview drama of mixing up the F4, by taking Abi along, as misdirection. In the end, I am betting on an Abi boot. With LOTS of drama. I would suspect that she may spill and capitalize on everyone's secrets, should be fun.

But, regarding the editing of this season. I agree with michel in that Mike has been the one that seems favored with the editing. But, I really don't know if it's because as a returning player, he's managed to survive for as long as he possibly can and thus receives the editing nod.

Reviewing all of the jurors that have passed before him, I agree, I don't think many favor Skupin. Maybe Carter, but if Skupin was in Carter's F3, then Skupin was the one that personally backstabbed him. So, I don't know. Carter just seems so taken up with the male alpha's and the "father" figures. He also seems like he has reverence for Lisa as well. So, I don't see him voting against Skupin, should Mike be in the F3.

I felt like Denise got the stellar edit in the beginning pre-merge episodes. And, while she has been in the back seat post merge, she's maintained a presence. I just wonder if this season they are going with editing to lead us toward one player that could win, all the while hiding the true winner, which in my opinion, could well be Denise. So, perhaps they could be going for the "surprise" winner?

I just feel like at this point, even though we are very close to the ending, there is still a lot that can happen, and the title of sole survivor is still very much up for grabs.

There could be a lot of drama left to come, when they reach F4, and it will be very interesting this season to see how the F3 argue their case to such a bitter jury. Right off the bat, I would think that Skupin has the most to overcome with such a heavy, get rid of the returners theme. Thank GAWD Penner arrived to mellow them out, call them out, and make the case that "it's a game!" Penner could be very influential on the jury this year to help Skupin with a win perhaps? We all know that EPMB loves his irony.

Still holding some hope out for Denise and the surprise!



"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-08-12 at 06:24 PM
Thank you for this FP but "Denise and the surprise"? I think Denise has to be the favorite to win right now and that Mike has always been the longshot.

"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-02-12 at 10:03 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-02-12 AT 10:04 PM (EST)

Thank you CTGirl,

I have made nice cases in the past that haven't panned out so who knows?

As for your question regarding manipulation that's a tough one to answer because, by definition, manipulations should be invisible.

I still think Fiji was by far the worst because the editors never let us hear about the African American, the Hispanic, the Explorers and the Shelter builders alliances. It seemed that Earl kept losing allies each week, that it was him and Yau Man against the world but, in fact, Earl merged with a 7-3 numbers advantage.

Next would be Panama: Exile Island especially its 4th episode, the one I call the episode that never happened.

Then, of course, there's the load of crap that turned Russell into one of the all time fan favorites.



"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by Solitaire on 12-02-12 at 11:33 PM
Curiosity has inspired me to de-lurk after many years (I don't think I have posted since somewhere around Season 4 or 5, although I've continued to read all along). What was so terrible about the editing of Episode 4 of Panama: Exile Island? I read a recrap of the episode and vaguely remember it now, but I don't recall reading anything after the fact that explains why that episode was so poorly edited.

"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by michel on 12-03-12 at 08:30 AM
Hi there,
I'm glad I got you to participate!

I didn't say it was poorly edited, just heavily manipulated. We saw Ruth making an alliance with Dan during that episode but Ruth told us that happened as soon as they got to La Mina which was episode 2. Then there were many converstaions that were spliced together with people apparently there but in reality weren't. (Check out Veruca's blow-by-blow of that episode) The episode was nicely put together but, outside the challenges, what we saw wasn't real.


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by suzzee on 12-03-12 at 01:51 PM
Great contributions everyone I am so enjoying the dialog that is posted here.

Michel, good analysis of this episode, can't wait to read the rest of the discussion.

Abi had a confessional to explain her ruse: “I know I can’t use Probst as a tool at all because he needs to keep the game fair (!)]

Yet she was able to make him a silent partner, I wonder if this is why Jiffy was so supportive of her, he had to admire her for making him an accomplice in her plot. Annoying as she is, she does well at self-preservation. I have to give her credit for coming up with the two part clue idea.


Coronation by Tribe


"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by puzzled11 on 12-04-12 at 04:59 AM
Suzee, much as I would like to give Abi credit, there is something about the way everything was constructed and the confessional in which referred to Jeff that makes me doubt very much that it was her idea. At the very least I feel she asked the producers about what she could and couldn't do and it feels like her confessional was based around their response.

"RE: Episode 11 - The Dilemma:"
Posted by suzzee on 12-04-12 at 10:21 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-04-12 AT 10:22 AM (EST)

That is totally possible, it sure is a departure from anything else she's done so far mentally. If that happened she has by now convinced herself it was her idea. I remember watching Jiffy's expression when she stumbled her way through the ruse and it's possible Jiffy's lips were moving to the script with her.



Coronation by Tribe


"Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by michel on 12-08-12 at 06:17 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-12 AT 01:12 PM (EST)

Previously, on Survivor, Abi found out that she was universally despised but, in order to save herself, she bought an advantage at the auction.
She then used that advantage as part of a crazy scheme…
<We heard Abi telling Malcolm about a 4th idol>
…to make people think she had an immunity idol.
(Funny that we were shown Abi playing with her bikini bottom and top when Jeff said this as if she could hide it there!)

None of that mattered when she won immunity.

At tribal Council, it was clear that there was a majority alliance of Malcolm, Denise, Lisa and Skupin…but Penner tried to convince Lisa that it was a bad idea.
<We see Penner telling Lisa that she will be giving the money to “one of them”>
True to form, Lisa kept her word and voted out Penner.

After trying to draw sympathy for Abi in the previous recap, Jeff was back to bashing her. It was going to be the only way to draw an ounce of suspense in another rather boring episode.
It’s interersting that Penner apparently only tried to convince Lisa that it was a bad idea to keep Denise and Malcolm and that it was Lisa who voted out Penner when the last episode had shown that Mike was Penner’s last hope and the deciding voter. What would be more interesting is that this episode would show more of the same. Some, maybe even the majority, will say that it’s because Mike doesn’t matter but another school of thought would suggest that Mike was spared the blame of eliminating a fan favorite, that Lisa will be the one to suffer from making this move.

Playing with Their Heads


Night 30

Abi: “It’s clear to me that Denise, Lisa, Malcolm and Skupin have a foursome alliance going on. Between me and Carter, who are they going to take? A guy from Kansas or a girl from Brazil that they have issues with because she is too honest? (sic) I am going to go with the bluff that I have the 4th immunity idol. That’s all I have for me.”

Lisa: “Tribal Council was a very tough decision. I think Penner is correct: Malcolm is playing a brilliant game because it is strategic but it is likable, underdog, good at challenges, all-around really great game. Going to the end with Malcolm and Denise is not a great strategy but betraying that trust opposes who I am.”

While Lisa delivered that confessional, we heard Denise telling her that she was proud of her for standing up for who she was.

We have to note that the players value honesty and doing the right thing at this stage. The upcoming decision to eliminate Carter over Abi can not be called doing the right thing according to their own standards.

The Reward

Of the comments heard while meeting the loved ones, I noted the following that had some merit:

Mike: “For 12 years it’s been: Dad are you doing it again?”
Denise’s husband: “She has so much strength, so much love…so much more than people can even know.”
Probst: “Gotta say Lisa, I have seen powerful moments involving loved one, this might be at the top.”
Mlacolm’s brother Miles: “We’ve watched every episode.”

Malcolm won reward and chose Lisa and Mike to share with him.
As Denise’s husband left, we heard Skupin promising to take care of her.
Mike also told Bianca that her son Carter was “one heck of a guy.”

Malcolm: “You only have moments to make this decision and I’m rewarding Lisa and Skupin for sticking with me and Denise at the last tribal and through the last few votes. Those are my allies; I need to take care of them and keep them close.”

Day 31

Lisa: “Justice and I are so close…”

Malcolm had a confessional after his brother said he hadn’t missed Malcolm: “…He’s a knucklehead… when I am this close to a million dollars, that could cost me.”

Mike: “My son is bloodied from here to here…That’s my boy!”

After these introductions, Lisa and Justice talked about strategy.

Justice had a confessional to tell us about his sister: “I’m not surprised Lisa made it this far…She’s a really good game player… She knows how to win…” During this time, Lisa told him about her mistakes saying: “I could have played a great game.” Justice concluded: “…My job is to remind her that it is a game: Outwit, Outlast, Outplay the others.”

Mike mentioned that Malcolm wouldn’t play his idol at the next TC so that, with Carter’s vote, they could get rid of him and his idol.

Lisa: “I do know it’s a game and I do love this game but I haven’t been able to step outside of who I am to play the game…When someone…reminds me of the big picture…it was like Yay! I can play this game.” She told Mike who loved the idea. Lisa ended her confessional: “I am going to play by these rules to win.”

The next morning began in a prayer led by Lisa and she was joined by her brother and the two Skupins.

Looking at them, Malcolm realized: “They’re all going to bond over Jesus.”

Malcolm: “One of the biggest fears I have after the loved ones’ visit is Lisa. She was at rock-bottom emotionally, playing with her heart as she said…Her brother….might have knocked some sense into her.”

Mike joked that Jesus would look like Malcolm to which Lisa added: “He’d probably play like Carter.”

Lisa: “I don’t think God chooses sides…”

If the strategy is edited as being played according to the Prisonner’s Dilemma as we suggested last week, it’s interesting to note that Lisa’s brother is responsible for making Lisa and Mike want to target Malcolm before he betrayed them. Malcolm actually cooperated with them so it wouldn’t be the best move to go after him but, coming from an outsider, the game changes: There is no more advantage in cooperating.

More directly, it was strange that we didn’t hear from Denise and how she felt about Malcolm’s decision. This isn’t the first time that her reaction at key moments isn’t presented. Quite unusual for a potential winner.


The Challenge

On Day 33, “Jesus” won the challenge. It had to be that way…

Lisa: “I was so ready to play this game hard and make a big move but Pouf: And Malcolm wins immunity and Lisa’s plan is shot into smithereens.”

Malcolm: “It’s the most relaxing feeling I have felt this entire game…I can sit around camp and not worry about people wandering off in pairs. My mind gets a break…I can’t be voted out tonight and the last time I can play (the HII) is at the final 5. I’m in the Final 4 in Survivor and it’s only day 33. I can taste it.”

This sounds like the typical over-confident confessional that we hear from players who get a surprise boot. Malcolm is in the Final 4 but what about after that?

Lisa told Mike that since their plan didn’t work there had to be a bigger plan that they couldn’t see.
What Mike could see was a giant ant on a tree!
Mike then refocused her by saying there was something for them at Final 4 and that they had to decide between Abi and Carter.
She couldn’t answer.

While it was very funny to hear Mike interrupt Lisa with the big ant comment, it seemed to show that Mike wasn’t intererested in hearing Lisa’s talk of divine intervention. Mike is more pragmatic: Wait until F4 and decide what needs to be done now. Strangely, he didn’t mention Denise so the question becomes: Is he forgetting about Denise? If he has then Denise’s story could very well be the winning one. After looking for a crack she has now fallen into it and no one targets her. On the other hand, it could also be that it won’t matter if they missed an opportunity to eliminate her here.

Mike next went to Malcolm saying he didn’t want to get rid of Carter.
Malcolm agreed but said it was the right strategy.
Carter then walked over, asking if he was interrupting.
They told him the truth.
Carter left it up to them.

Carter: “On a personal level, I know that this game is about strategy…but people have been talking about keeping people that deserve to be in this game.”

Sitting around camp, Denise pointed out that Lisa’s name hadn’t been written down. Malcolm added that Skupin’s name hadn’t been written down either. They also realized that Carter hadn’t seen his name.

Abi asked if Lisa wrote her name down. Lisa said yes.
Abi said they could write Denise’s name.
Lisa said that she may have to do that at Final 4.
Denise said she’d understand.
Abi went on so Denise tried to end the conversation but Abi wanted to make her point since she wasn’t safe.

Malcolm had a confessional to make us think Abi could leave: “She’s like the Dementor…Nobody can stand her.”
Carter said in confessional that Abi’s problem could be that she’s from another country.
Denise had a confessional saying it was not cultural. “It’s the culture of Abi.”

What to make of the exchange where we heard that Lisa and Mike hadn’t received any votes? Was it a hint that they wouldn’t see their names written ever? Or was it to tell us that they played a good game, avoiding being targets? Few winners have gone through an entire game without receiving votes so it could be a way to show that Lisa and Mike would be deserving. Interestingly, one of those rare winners that never received an elimination vote was Tina!

Abi then went into the woods to retrieve her stick.

Abi: “I am definitely on my own, I am fighting for myself. I can…try to bluff in this game.”

Malcolm: “Abi continues to threaten that she has an immunity idol. I think she’s obnoxious but, as empty as we think Abi’s threat is, it is something that we have to consider…I am considering making a really bad strategic decision just for my own morale…If Abi goes home tonight, it’s because she is a bitch.”

Tribal Council

Jeff asked Malcolm if he needed the safety of immunity.
Malcolm answered: “I felt safe, I have my group of four and I trust them completely.”
Carter didn’t understand why it had to be between him and Abi when everyone talked about bringing deserving players.
While he said that, we were shown Skupin nodding his head in agreement and Malcolm bowing his in resignation. To the jury, the message looked clear: Mike would have kept Carter but Malcolm had decided otherwise.
To drive the point, Mike said: “I don’t know if Carter is more a son to me or a friend to me but we clicked very well. To consider Carter, it’s like voting out my own kid.”
Lisa went the other way: “I would sit next to somebody I could beat.”
That really disappointed Carter…and Penner.

Asked if she was surprised, Abi said: “I’m surprised but, at the same time…I found the 4th hidden immunity idol so I am going to play it and I don’t think I am going to go home.”
Denise said that no one had seen Abi’s idol.
Malcolm added: “We have seen Abi play with an idol. I think she is smart enough that, if she has it, she should be leveraging it more than she is.”
Abi said she was trying to protect herself.
Denise hesitantly said that her relationship with Abi had improved but not enough to take her to the end.
Penner liked that.

Abi laughed because she didn’t think she brought tension.
Denise said that Abi couldn’t win this game because people looked for a more balanced player: Social, strategic and physical.
Once more, Mike was the last one shown voting.

In his final words, Carter said “they are playing with their heads, not their hearts.”

The Case for Malcolm: Do we even have to make a case for Malcolm? If “Jesus” makes it to the end, he wins. There is no doubt about it even if he told us that he couldn’t beat Lisa and Denise.
I didn’t like is “I can taste it” confessional though. It still seems that Malcolm will fall short. What I found interesting is that we saw him making fire again in this episode. He appears to be the fireking this season and everyone ought to know about it. Tying the votes wouldn’t be giving him a chance at F4 to win his way to the end, it would be letting him get to the end. Is that what happens? He pleads to split the votes 2-2 to have a shot but it falls on deaf ears? To win, Malcolm needs to make it to the final tribal council but there are very few editing hints that suggest he does.

The Case for Lisa: The season is presented as Lisa’s game. Her struggle with the rules of the game has been the centerpiece of many episodes and now she has found a way to play a good game. From the start, the story of the season has shown us her turmoils and now we have finally reached a point where she can play with her head and make the tough decisions so that should earn her the victory, right? That would be why we heard Jonathan talking to her about what the viewers wanted to see.

Unfortunately, Lisa’s story has soured so much lately that many in the audience can’t take much more of it. The editors know that because they showed us Penner, the storyteller and therefore the de facto conscience of the audience, disapproving when she said she wanted to sit next to someone she could beat. To win, Lisa would need to play with her head without forgetting about her heart but that’s what has caused her so many problems.

The Case for Denise: This strong person in a small package as defined by her husband has not only found the crack she had been looking for all along but she seems to have been completely overlooked as a target. The audience had to wonder why Lisa and Mike wouldn’t target her when they couldn’t go after Malcolm. It’s the usual alternative: When you can’t eliminate a rival, you go after his closest ally. We didn’t hear Mike and Lisa considering that option other than Lisa saying she may write Denise’s name at F4 so maybe that’s Denise’s winning story.

The player that was described as the biggest jury threat premerge found a way to stay off the radar after it all the way to the end where the jury will agree with Swan: Everyone else stinks, she wins. To do that, Denise will need to get to the end without compromising her loyalty and her word that she will want to sit against deserving players.

The Case for Mike: All along, I refused to consider Mike’s problem with jury votes because we didn’t know enough about the jury: Would it be a Final 3 or a Final 2? Would Mike be facing Lisa and Denise or would Abi somehow fit in? It seems that Mike doesn’t have a chance to win if it is a Final 3 and Denise is there at the end. Maybe there was nothing behind the Rise of the Phoenix other than a brief nod at a former favorite.

But look at this episode: Everyone but Mike played with their heads. He was clearly shown still playing with his heart. That’s why we heard him talking to Denise’s husband and Carter’s mother as they left. That’s why we heard him comparing Carter to his son whom he obviously adores. Maybe Denise doesn’t want to sit next to Abi but she wasn’t heard saying anything on Carter’s behalf.

We saw Mike and Malcolm talking about Carter and it was Malcolm that said they had to be strategic while Mike hated the idea of booting Carter. If we go by Penner’s reactions, the jury will reward the player with the biggest heart not a gamebot, not even the balanced player that Denise described because Survivor strategy is heartless. I now think that Mike could even beat Lisa and Denise in a Final 3 and it would put a big twist to what Malcolm said when he doubted he could beat those two! It would be quite ironic to see Mike beat Denise and Lisa when Malcolm thought even he couldn’t do it.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by puzzled11 on 12-09-12 at 09:52 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-12 AT 09:56 AM (EST)

Quote:

Everyone but Mike played with their heads. He was clearly shown still playing with his heart.


Sorry, Michel, when I consider whom Mike voted for after having elevated him to a de facto equal best human being he'd ever known, I'm forced to think that you're now playing with your heart more than Mike was.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by michel on 12-09-12 at 01:17 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-12 AT 01:28 PM (EST)

Listen to what was said and look at what the camera showed. The editors went out of their way to show that Mike didn't have a choice, that there were already 4 votes against Carter no matter what he did. Lisa flat out said she was keeping Abi, Malcolm had a look of resignation when Carter made his plea. Only Mike was shown approving Carter's view.


Maybe I should have written that Mike didn't forget about his heart when he made his decision. Playing only with your heart leads to a hot mess as shown by Lisa's earlier game. You need to have your head in the game and we see that Mike can do that but the jury seems to prefer those that also play with their heart and that was Mike's edit.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by puzzled11 on 12-09-12 at 03:15 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-12 AT 03:17 PM (EST)

The option to actually vote with his heart was available to him precisely because the votes against Carter were already there. With the others having heard how strongly he felt towards Carter, the cost of a throw-away vote wouldn't have been that great.

After all, Lisa had set the precedent of having her cake and eating it too when she let Skupin vote for Artis while she maintained her loyalty.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by michel on 12-09-12 at 05:46 PM
But that's going beyond editing analysis and looking at game play analysis. Would you agree that Mike was shown caring for Carter more than any of the others? I certainly think he was.

If you want to analyse game play, I'd say a throw-away vote can be dangerous, showing you can't be trusted.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by puzzled11 on 12-09-12 at 07:46 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-12 AT 09:33 PM (EST)

I totally agree that Mike was shown caring for Carter than anyone else, with his exaggerated finger pointing 'great man' routine at the end of the RC and his father-like love for him.

However, it is this tighter bond for Carter that also makes him more culpable (hypocritical even) than the others for eventually voting him out.


Actually, in terms of voting with his heart, the edit has not suggested that he has a good track record in that regard:

He voted out his closest ally in the game (RC); he voted with the villains against Kent; and he voted against his fellow-returnee Penner, (despite being shown to say he could beat him just prior to TC)

Granted,he did get credit for flipping the game when Artis was booted but, if you think that playing with one's heart is important to the jury, I don't think Mike has been especially well treated by the edit in this regard.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by mimo on 12-09-12 at 08:50 PM
Michel: as usual, you make a strong case and I definitely admire your conviction -- although I don't share it.

Carter has been such an invisible presence throughout the season that it's hard to make the case that he is a more deserving player than Abi. He's less unpleasant that's for sure, but apart from winning a few challenges and getting food for the tribe in the auction what has he brought to the table? We haven't seen any of his strategy and we really don't know his story. Lisa and Mike have a connection to him, but we don't see a connection with Denise and Malcolm. Given his lack of story, I don't know if the audience is meant to consider it a negative that he was voted out. If negative to anyone, i thought it made Mike and Lisa seem even more hypocritical (as they were the ones who stated they had a connection with him.) The other scene that I found negative was the prayer meeting. It reminded me a bit of the prayer scenes with Coach, which I also found distasteful. I could be in the minority, but I feel like religion is something personal, and the ostentatious prayer display (in which they prayed for the guy who gave them time with their loved ones to fail) seemed quite anti-spiritual.

I'd be interested in hearing from the others. Did I overreact to the scene, or did others find it rather hypocritical?

I thought this episode showcased Malcolm in the best light, with Denise under the radar (but still present), with Mike and Lisa heading toward the negative. I think if Malcolm makes it to the end, he wins (even against Denise), but I can't see Mike or Lisa winning unless it's a final 2 against each other.

On a completely separate note, I thought it was cute how they emphasized Malcolm's and Miles' love for survivor. Any chance they'd bring Miles in for an upcoming season (survivor siblings anyone???) He could be the anti-Hantz....



"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by michel on 12-09-12 at 09:29 PM
Thank you, Mimo. I like reading your POV.

We'll see how it turns out but I don't think that it was seeing Carter leave that was the main focus for the audience but rather seeing Abi staying. Who got the audience hopes up that Abi could leave? Denise and Malcolm. They were given confessionals just before TC to say that they wanted her out but they didn't deliver.

I'll admit that Pre TC confessionals are always tricky to analyse; are they meant for the short or the long term? But anyone could have been used to say that Abi had overstayed her welcome and should leave. Malcolm and Denise were chosen. The Dementor confessional was too good to cut but why add Denise's?

As for the prayer, if there was negativity associated with it, I think it was mitigated when Lisa said she knew God wasn't choosing sides.


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-10-12 at 09:08 AM
Great post above, as always, Michel. Interesting how Mike is getting so much editing this season. But, I still don't know if it's misleading or not. Time will play out.

Regarding the Carter boot, I agree that Carter was an insignificant player this season. He really seemed to latch onto the strong alpha males. Which turned the women in his original tribe off, then when he got with the Church lady and Skupin, I think he found a common bond with them through their religion. So, he was a follower. He was able to win some immunities, however, which only served to get him on the radar.

I agree regarding the TC. It was Denise and Malcolm that argued for the Abi boot, and for the more deserving player. And, I felt that Skupin's comment were an after thought, but, it may have hit a home run with Carter.

But, it should/could be taken as the most hypocritical. If Skupin and Lisa were his best friends and allies out there, then why didn't they vote with him? Malcolm did spell it out for him when he told them of "the four". He voiced that they had a tight F4 agreement, all the while Carter knew that Skupin/Penner had been his F3. Skupin was the one that betrayed that. So, no telling how young Carter will react...



"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by parathor on 12-10-12 at 01:00 PM
Skupin had another "cut to commercial" moment with Lisa talking about not seeing the big picture, and his showing the gigantic ant.

Was this an indication that, yes, he isn't seeing the big picture, he's stuck on the small details? Or is he seeing the things that no one else sees?


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by Sheldor on 12-10-12 at 03:21 PM
>Skupin had another "cut to commercial" moment with Lisa talking about
>not seeing the big picture, and his showing the gigantic ant.

An interesting editing choice. I half expected Skupin to cheer Lisa up by starting to sing "High Hopes"!
Of course that wasn't a "little old ant"!

Next time you're found, with your chin on the ground
There a lot to be learned, so look around

Just what makes that little old ant
Think he'll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, can't
Move a rubber tree plant

But he's got high hopes, he's got high hopes
He's got high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time you're gettin' low
'stead of lettin' go
Just remember that ant

Oops there goes another rubber tree plant!


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-10-12 at 05:05 PM
Sheldor! LOVE that song! Oops there goes another rubber tree plant!

Touche!



"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by michel on 12-10-12 at 07:19 PM
The Skupin/Penner/Carter F3 isn't part of the story. We never saw it so I'd hope it wouldn't matter. I have to limit myself to what is shown and suggested.

"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-11-12 at 09:10 AM
Yes, you are right, michel. It was never brought up in the show at all. Interesting.

I brought it up as I was speculating about Carter and who he would most likely hold responsible for his boot. Malcolm announced at TC that he was in a "tight" alliance of four. Carter should have brought up his old alliance of 3 then, but he didn't. Mike voted to oust Penner, therefore choosing one alliance over the other. In doing so, he cut Carter loose.

We didn't hear any of that in the show. But, we sure did in the post boot interviews via Penner. Sure appears that this may not effect the vote for winner then. Maybe Carter was good with it?


"RE: Episode 12 - Playing with their Heads:"
Posted by CTgirl on 12-11-12 at 10:52 AM
With Skupin's comment, "he is like a son to me," I took it that Carter was okay with it and will vote for Mike in the finals. Carter's not passionate enough to have an angry jury speech so I felt like that was the end of the story. Although we didn't see it, they probably bonded over their Christianity and Mike's comment was a way of tying that all up without devoting much time to Carter himself.

"Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-14-12 at 09:29 PM
Here are some highlights I noted from Episode 13...

The multi-layered "villain" - I must say I found Abi to be the most enjoyable "villain" the show has given us in years. She truly added a little extra spice to the last few episodes. There were certainly episodes this season where I wanted to turn down the volume when she was on the screen. But we can admittedly say that the feisty Brazilian did have some fight in her. Fortunately this villain wasn't just a one-note ball of negativity (like a Naonka) - she did have some strategy and did have some sense to hold out for advantages to get her further in the game. While her game was sloppy at times, the editors were able to show more layers to Abi as the game progressed. Kudos to them for maintaining her an villain status, while still allowing us to have sympathy for her when she was demoralized at TC, and for us to still enjoy her comeback to win an Individual Immunity, and for us to see some occasional dumb-player blunders in the midst of it all. A well-rounded villain journey edit is not a common thing to see on Survivor.

The Abi & Denise conflict - The last 3 consecutive tribal councils have provided us a min-story arc of Denise vs Abi - making for some great TC theatre. In the first act, when Abi was obliterated by Denise's words, I saw this as a good thing for Denise as she was stating what everyone was feeling about Abi (both viewers and remaining players). I also thought it was nicely crafted by the editors to portray, simultaneously, scenes to allow us to have BOTH sympathy for Abi (as she would soon be an underdog and win Individual Immunity when it was most pivotal for her) and to give some needed attention to Denise (as her post merge story was beginning to fade) Their first TC exchange was just the beginning, and it played nicely for the editors to give some juicy fireworks at a time in the game that often stalls due to having some predictable boots. Then during Carter's TC boot, we revisited Denise and Abi, and were able to see Denise walk through the minefield some more - facing her most difficult opponent, socially, so far in the game. In this last episode, we now got to see what this arc was leading up to - having these two polar opposites stranded on the beach together with nowhere to turn from each other. Awesome! The editors likely saw this as story-telling gold They got the chance to highlight the feisty villainess in her attempts to hang-on to the game, while weaving some story (and doubt) into one the strongest remaining players. And a good job at that - it was highly entertaining! In the end, Denise prevailed and Abi was sent packing - providing the outcome that most viewers were likely hoping to see.

The Matsing bond has ended - Malcolm & Denise have had the strongest bond throughout this game. Yes, Mike and Lisa are tight, but we have seen much more connection and focus on Malcolm and Denise early in the game and highlighted in recaps at the pivotal merge time. Their alliance was edited nicely and continued to sway viewers to view their pairing most positively. This episode we finally see that even this powerful, likeable alliance will come to end - as they have made it to the final four and it is an individual game for them now. Interestingly we heard of the break-up from Malcolm. He was the one shown to make the final 3 deal with Lisa and Mike, and turn on his trusted alliance mate. While this is smart strategy for him to win, in terms of his likeable edit, it could be a kink in his noble armor that he would consider betraying Denise. Also of note, I think many would have loved to see Malcolm play his idol for Denise (just in case) as they found this together and shared a bond for so long. Although it didn't appear that Denise was in much danger, Malcolm holding onto the idol spoke volumes that this is an individual game. Denise has been granted permission to do what she needs to get to the end. Which appears to be a better position for Denise editing-wise as she was let go and was never shown opposing her alliance mate (who many have come to love)

The Christian contingent - We saw an interesting develop with the Christian contingent this episode. With the family visitors from last episode Mike and Lisa prayed for God's will and concocted a plan to oust Malcolm. While this initially did not come to fruition, it was highlighted. This episode we see them surrounding Denise, asking God's will to heal her of her ailment to allow her to make it too the end. How crazy is this? It's almost like they were channeling over spirit to get Denise to the win. And this also connects us to the ironic juxtaposition of Denise having once said (in ep 2) that she doesn't pray for anything, and that "if anything is going to get me to the end of the game, it's going to be me." With the Christians praying for and Denise continuing to affirm her own strength to get through, how could she possibly not make it.

The hidden "moron" - we have heard Malcolm call Lisa "dangerous" and that Denise will win in put in front of a jury, and we have not heard any such bold statements about Mike. What we did hear is him being called a moron. Even if it were by Abi, Jeff did not let it slide and forced Mike to address it at TC, and he fell flat with his response. Even if there are members of the jury who do not see Mike as a moron (while we have already been shown throughout the season that some do) the others likely won't be too impressed that Mike did not defend himself. Will they see that he really has had no game to defend? Is this why the editors ignored Mike so much for nearly half the season? For a alpha male returnee to have made it this far in the game, the editing could've been far greater for Mike, but it had not been.

Revisiting themes from pre-merge:
Lisa taking "the hand that is dealt to her" - Lisa is now anticipating the next hand (shake on a deal now, and then shake on the next deal if it advances you further) Just as she was ready and willing to make a final 3 deal with Malcolm and Mike, it is still clear that Lisa is prepared to get dealt another hand if that means getting her to the final TC.
Denise pushing through he pain from being bitten by an island creature, connected nicely to her early statement that she had way back in episode 2, that it is "she" who will get herself to the end. Whether in the form of pain from a creature's bite or being in the line of Abi's fire, Denise is coming through "every step" the game is throwing at her "to regroup and turn it around." And her episode 4 accolades of being the person to beat this season, are finally echoed just in time to set the stage for the final episode.
Mike, as stated in ep 1, is once again "going with game" - and we can see that this game has never been Mike's story. Malcolm and Denise's journey were the major thread going throughout the season - and Lisa's emotional journey was second to that. Now with only these people left, we see Mike making decisions that benefit the others more than himself (voting off Abi, when she is the only person he could beat at this point) Mike is "going with game" that is clearly being lead by the other three.
Malcolm has fully come into his own, his echoes of "I want to win" from the early days of Matsing are finally coming to fruition. We now have seen Malcolm be the winner he knows he can be. While he has been playing a great strategic and social game all along, it wasn't until these last two episodes that Malcolm won his own Individual Immunities. Sitting at TC on day 36 with II and HI he certainly has gotten his swag back in droves, but now what? The target he's managed to so carefully avoid all season is now as big as can be at this point in the game.

Some further analysis of the remaining players...

Malcolm - We have seen and heard from others what a great player Malcolm is. He is. But his story seems finished and there's still an episode left and 3 days remaining. I think this puts him in a much better position for Favorite Player rather than Soul Survivor. He has gotten a super edit. He is a really good player - strategically, socially, physically - exactly what production loves in a young alpha male. They have highlighted him accordingly, and this will likely be so that he can earn the "peoples vote" as he came so close to making it to the end. All the story telling of late is letting us know that Malcolm is the one to be booted at final four.

Mike - In this penultimate episode, the writing was on the wall for Mike. Others do not view him at a contender to win. While the clearest words about his game came from a villain like Abi - "You are not winning the million dollars" - it was his rebuttal, or lack there of, that spoke volumes to his chances of winning. Similar to Abi's unawareness to being despised by the other castaways, Mike seemed clueless that he was coming across as an inept player. It's hard to dismiss the onslaught by Abi, even given her status. In his own defense we heard nothing from him to state his case of what he has brought to the table (rather his rebuttal was to say that Abi was "communicating - really, that's all you've got, Skupin) This reconnects with the many times we've heard negativity toward Mike, and nothing from him to refute it. Subtly showing to the viewers why he won't win (and not so subtly to us here following editing). While editing has been kind to him, likely due his alpha male returnee status, I knew eventually editing would come around to show us that Skupin is not savvy enough of a player to pull off a win. Not only was he a hidden "moron" - but in one clean sweep of an episode he has been revealed as this season's true goat. With all of the strategic prowess we've seen from the remaining players, it is likely that they all have known that Mike cannot win - hence their assurance that he too arrive at the FTC with them.

Lisa - While there have certainly been times when Lisa has been shown to be more wishy washy than Mike, there have also been clear times when our ears have perked up to take note that the emotional Lisa also has some solid strategic acumen when it comes to the game of Survivor. In this episode we even heard so from Malcolm when he shared his thoughts about Lisa's strategic stance after the last tribal council. Lisa was set straight since the reward visit with her brother, and while it is showing some contrast to how she was playing the game post merge, this is the time for her to get clear headed. Lisa's journey has come full circle and it may even appear that
her story has come to a close. The only thing left for her is, will she make the "big move" that she referred again in this episode. For her this "big move" has revolved around getting rid of Malcolm, her perceived biggest threat to win the game. And while this may come to fruition, we have to question whether it is too late in the game for Lisa to count such a move as a crowing achievement. Lisa's highlighted failed attempts will likely prove as more memorable, but she does have the wherewithal to debate this in front of a jury. She only needs 3 more days to hold onto her newfound sanity and state a clear case. We've seen a number of confessionals (and moments at TC) in which Lisa can be very articulate about the turn of events. Can she hold it together for a stellar jury performance at FTC? I'm betting she can. The only thing is that she'll likely be up against someone who can one-up her in that department...

Denise - Along with her emotional testimonial to "suck it up, you have 3 days left" regarding the pain she was feeling, we once again hear that Denise would win the game if she makes it to the end. The case for Denise was clearly spelled out by the others on the reward challenge. We hear Malcolm state: "the only way anyone has a shot at winning is if Denise isn't sitting there" Further stating "Nobody beats Denise" - to have Lisa chime in "she's been at every tribal council" then back to Malcolm, "nobody works harder, and she hasn't betrayed anybody" Whether all of this is true or not, it was a pivotal scene that allowed the audience to be reminded of why Denise has earned the title of Sole Survivor.


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-14-12 at 11:26 PM
I liked your thoughts, plenty of good viewpoints.

>The multi-layered "villain" - I must
>say I found Abi to
>be the most enjoyable "villain"
>the show has given us
>in years. She truly
>added a little extra spice
>to the last few episodes.

Agree, while I have more than mercilessly mocked Abi through my episode summaries and nicknames for her, she has shown herself to be one of the best villains we've ever had on Survivor and she never quit showing her strategic side, even if they were occasionally off the wall.


>The Abi & Denise conflict -
>The last 3 consecutive tribal
>councils have provided us a
>min-story arc of Denise vs
>Abi - making for
>some great TC theatre.

Know what I think? I have this feeling that Abi will throw her vote toward Denise assuming that the latter makes it to the final jury. I know this is a subject that some, i.e. Michel, doesn't want to consider, but on the Ponderosa videos we can see that Abi has done an abrupt U-turn in her attitude once she arrived there after being booted and she recognizes what she did wrong and took ownership of her actions ... which means I believe she'd be capable of recognizing that Denise's comments had a ring of truth to it. Abi was harsher toward Skupin at TC and toward Lisa in camp than she was toward Denise, even if Denise was the one who was shown making the pain-inducing comments about Abi.

The editing makes it completely clear that it'll be either Malcolm or Denise that goes at F4 (not Skupin nor Lisa since we've seen no conflict between these two that might foreshadow a boot where one of them might turn on the other, plus there's no hyping up of a potential 2-2 tie), and we've seen much more of a story between Abi and Denise than we did between Abi and Malcolm, so it's more likely that Denise gets to the end and not Malcolm. There's also the small matter of Denise being on the receiving end of "put her in the F3 and she'll win" sentiment more often than Malcolm.

Thanks for your thoughts, Aaron.


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-15-12 at 00:38 AM
You're welcome, Pepe! Thanks for your thoughts too!

Yes, I believe Abi certainly earned the merciless mocking she received this season, and it was great to see that she was able to earn more than just that. It really was more enjoyable to watch her in these past episodes, where it could have been nightmarish if she didn't have that extra "something." In culmination, she was nicely cast, nicely edited, and nicely played (even though I rarely agreed with her, she made the best game for what she had to offer)

As for what you mention about her possibly voting for Denise, I totally agree. There is a definite possibility for that to happen. If Abi were only one-dimensional, she'd hate Denise and there would be no way she'd vote for her - But Abi has demonstrated a reflective side and could possibly have learned some self-awareness though this process. To the point where she may even respect that Denise was so "honest" (as that was Abi's mantra for herself)

Great point about the lack of conflict between Lisa and Skupin to further conclude that they won't be splitting at four. I felt that the presence of the Malcolm/Denise Matsing bond fracture was enough to point to one of them leaving, and it is certainly fitting that the lack of emphasis of something like this for Lisa/Skupin would punctuate this point.

Looking forward to the finale!


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by dabo on 12-15-12 at 01:42 AM
Great stuff, Aaron. And I agree, Abi as a "villain" (at which I still LOL) did manage to make a usually rote portion of the game fun to watch. Couldn't root for her, but loved how she went into overdrive and tried everything she could think of to keep herself in the game.

And she actually did some smart things as well as some purely desperate things. She tried and tried.

Funny thing is, I think she actually could have had a slim chance of winning had she made it to FTC. Very very slim. But she was swinging for the fences, if she could make the case that she totally lied about a lot of stuff (her fourth HII, overhearing conversations that never happened, etc.) and the dumdums apparently bought it by letting her get to FTC, bingo, that was just stoopid.

In other words, she actually was the goat that shed her goatness when she actually started playing the game, and if she had managed to dig herself out of the hole she was in she actually would have been able to make a reasonably good case for herself at the end. It still probably wouldn't have worked, but it could have.


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-15-12 at 02:42 AM
Thanks, Dabo!

Yes, Abi could've had a slim chance. At the very least she'd be likely to garner some votes. She never had to betray her 2 main alliance mates (Pete & Artis)- so they might've thrown their votes her way. Plus she could state her loyalty to them as part of her winning argument. Like you mention about her being the "goat that shed her goatness" - she could've easily proposed that this was part of her strategy. Whether it was true or not - she was surely in overdrive, and ready to "tell the lie enough, that even she believed it." She wouldn't beat Malcolm or Denise, but it could've been interesting if she were sitting next to Lisa & Michael. We got a glimpse of her tearing into them during her boot TC, wonder how crazy she would've gotten on them if she were battling for the million at FTC.

- aaron

PS - much appreciation for all the weekly Confessional count tallies you do, I love relating that with the editing analysis!


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-16-12 at 10:20 AM
Yes, I agree with Aaron, DABO! Thanks SO MUCH for all of the confessional counts you do each and every week! I have always loved them and really appreciate your efforts! They are very useful and invaluable in my opinion! I also have always loved what Corvis has to say regarding them!

Thanks so much!


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-15-12 at 10:20 AM
Aaron: I wanted to say that I couldn't agree more with everything you wrote. I see it the same way. As for Denise's edit. She was very strong in the pre-merge and managed to stay afloat at every TC. Her tribemates Russell and Malcolm both had million dollar quotes about her. She showed us that she was quite capable of being the sole survivor in the pre-merge. She outlasted, she aligned with the right people in her first 2 tribes and stayed loyal to them, she was strong in challenges, winning the first merge challenge, and she went with the flow. All ingredients that add up to winner.

Past the merge, she managed to take a back seat and let the alphas go at it, namely Penner, Jeff, Pete and company. She was extremely loyal to her alliancemate, Malcolm. Penner told us multiple times that either she or Malcolm would win. But, who did he shout out at TC and vote for, the biggest threat to win the game, Denise.

The Denise vs Abi arc happened just as you note. Denise voiced the opinion for the entire group. Then, there was doubt cast upon her as appearing unsympathetic and perhaps a bit cruel. But, she persevered and we see who won the conflict. Then, we see her one alliance-mate betray her. More doubt. We see her get sick from a bite of some sort, and just as you note, we remember that she told us that she would get there on her own merit, not on prayer or on anyone else's coattails.

I think Denise will be the sole Survivor. And, if she is, I will feel very satisfied with the way the entire show panned out, and with how it was edited, and produced. An excellent season, right up there with Cook Islands. Interesting that Penner was a fabulous character in both! Says alot for him, imo.

I want to say that I have felt that both Skupin and Lisa are the goats, and I feel as though they have both been edited as the journey players. Skupin, as a returner in a season where NO one wanted a returner to win. I still think the jury feels that way for the most part. I think they will not favor Skupin in the end. Skupin's journey was all about playing the game and making it to the end as a returner. And, he was successful.But, for me, his arc is over once he gets to F3. He got himself as far as he could, but I think it was more because everyone else wanted him to be there. He had a very nice edit, he's a nice man of religious conviction that got along with the Church lady. He told us his strategy to just flow along with the events, and that's just what he was shown to do....even though there were times where he could have made some big moves, and remember, it was him that said Survivor was a game that required MULTIPLE big moves. I don't recall him making any big moves, although I am sure you could argue for a few, truthfully. He was a journey player that got to finish what he started in Season 2. He provided humor as well, with all of his accidents. He was rewarded by making F3. But, I think that's the end of his journey.

Lisa was the other goat. She did try to play the game but was just too torn between playing it as she wanted to and staying true to her perceived true nature of loyalty. Telling Malcolm that I found your idol and your secrets safe with me, and then reassuring him that I am with you, then turning immediately around as soon as he's out of your sight exemplified the conflict. It seemed that her whole arc started with finding Malcolm's idol. That's when she labeled him as the most dangerous one to have to go, so perhaps, if Malcolm goes at F4, her arc is finally over. She will have outlasted Malc. I didn't like her drama. I didn't like how she handled Penner. But, I understood it all. And, I have to admit, I LOVED that Lisa did these things because it made the players HAVE to scramble at many points in the game. The producers must have thought Lisa was TV GOLD. Lisa is also very articulate. But, no matter how articulate she is at the F3, I believe her arc is done if Malcolm goes at F4, like I think he will. There is no way that she will win.

I have to agree with Pepe as well. I think that Abi, in the end, will also vote for Denise as winner.

Great post, Aaron. Thanks so much. I look forward to reading Michel's post. And, won't it be fun to see how this one turns out!


"Episode 13- "You Can't Beat Denise""
Posted by michel on 12-15-12 at 03:30 PM
I'm glad to see that this party is already started. I'm sorry if i repeat anything that has been said but I like to write my thoughts without outside influences.

Previously, on Survivor; there was a majority alliance made up of Malcolm, Denise, Skupin and Lisa but cracks started to form
We see Malcolm falling in the water and both Mike and Lisa talking about eliminating him.
With Abi and Carter on the outs, Abi came up with a plan to save herself, attempting to trick everyone into thinking she had an immunity idol.
But it wasn’t her plan that saved her, it was her constant negative attitude.

At Tribal Council, Lisa made it clear who she wanted to sit next to at the end and Carter found out that nice guys finish last.


The recap once again mostly centered on Lisa and Mike and told us to expect Malcolm’s fall.

This episode should have been titled:

You can’t Beat Denise

Night 33

Abi: “I survived another tribal…”

Lisa: “Tribal Council was hard. Carter is one of the nicest guy you’d ever want to meet.” Mike was heard saying that Carter will learn and grow up from this experience before Lisa’s confessional continued: “It really doesn’t seem fair. This game isn’t fair but, if I had a choice…I’d bring somebody I could beat.”

Mike then made an interesting comment when he told Abi: “You thought you were going to be here but I think you thought you were going to be here with very different people.”

Malcolm: “Tribal Council tonight, Lisa said she would go to the end with somebody she thinks she could beat. It’s really an eye-opener that she could be thinking so strategically. Good on her but now I know what she is looking for in someone she plans on getting to the final 3 and her head’s in the game. She tipped it off and it makes her dangerous going forward.”

As with the recap, these two confessionals point to Lisa as a real player. She accepts that the game isn’t fair and Malcolm recognizes her as a threat.


Day 34

Malcolm had a confessional after the group saw Abi go into the jungle: “Abi’s… keeping the act going around camp as if she still has an idol but…there’s no way she would have held it in her bag if she had it.”

Abi: “Malcolm isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He’s using his immunity idol…I need to make sure that the alliance that Denise and Malcolm have is destroyed because they are very dangerous together. If Denise doesn’t win the next immunity challenge, she needs to go home ASAP.”

Abi then told Lisa that she was at the bottom of the 4 person alliance: “Denise knows she cannot beat you.”

Lisa: “I don’t believe Abi for a second but I need to keep Abi close whether she stays or whether she goes to the jury. If we keep her…maybe take her to the end and that feels really yucky inside. I…need to use her for my best game plan. Right now, I have options from which to choose: I would love to be able to vote off Denise and keep Abi around but then again, I may have to vote off Abi to keep the alliance strong. I feel like I have all these scenarios in my head and I am taking control of my own destiny but, part of taking control of my own destiny is waiting for the right time to make my big move.”

The Challenge

It was between Mike and Malcolm and, in the end, Mike won reward.
Mike reminded Jeff of his last chopper ride.
He chose Malcolm, returning the favor for giving him something “that will last so much longer than pizza,” and Lisa.

Jeff noticed that Abi looked heartbroken.
She said she was, adding: “I guess my vote doesn’t mean anything.”
Mike looked long at her as she left but then it was time to hop on the helicopter!

Camp

Abi” “I was very crushed…To make matters worse, I got to go home with Denise who is a horrible person…I’m the swing vote and Mike doesn’t see that.”

Denise: “It’s going to be a fun afternoon: It’s like the first date with the kid who pulled your hair all the time in kindergarden...I want to hang myself, gouge my eyes out…”

This scene was a complete waste of time, it only served to show that Denise missed an opportunity to improve her social game. I guess she thinks Abi’s vote means nothing. Wait…where did we hear that before?!

The Reward

Malcolm: “…We had pizza, soft drinks and cookies. Michael Skupin doesn’t eat sugar in real life…he acted like a drunk chick in a bar! All of a sudden, Skupin is fun to be around. Who knew he had that side of him?”

Mike: “I haven’t had a soft drink in 30 years and I had 3 or 4 of them, I can’t remember; they were good.”

Malcolm: “The guys finally spotted a shadow in the water. It turns out we aren’t going to look at them from the boat…You are actually going to put me in the water with the world’s biggest fish?”

Lisa: “We dive in…and, out of the blue…this humongous whale shark!”

Malcolm: “It was awe inspiring. That fish was massive.”

Mike: “It’s so intimidating because, you think that, at any second, he’s going to turn on you and eat you.”

Malcolm: “A whale shark head-butted Michael Skupin! It’s the funniest thing I’ve seen in my life and my mind has become so calculating after a month and a half in this game that I am thinking: Great! One less competitor! I have a game to play: I have been the driving force in the last few votes, I need to keep it that way.”

He offered a Final 3 deal to Lisa and Mike, saying they’d have to get rid of Denise. “Nobody beats Denise” he said.
Lisa pointed out that Denise had been to every Tribal Council.
Malcolm added that she works harder than anyone and hasn’t betrayed anyone.

Malcolm (solo): “Denise and I have been tight since day 1 but, in my mind, my best chance to be in the Final 3 and win the Final 3 is to be next to Lisa and Skupin. So, I made them give me their word on Final 3.”

Mike said that Malcolm had never lied to him and that they couldn’t be like Penner and refuse the offer.

Mike: “Malcolm, at this point, would be the best person to form an alliance with because he is the most dangerous to win individual immunity. If he wins, he has more power on who goes to the final 3.”

Lisa said she like to be stress free so they shook on it.

Lisa: “Skupin’s really on board with this and I didn’t have the chance to knock some sense into him so I said I loved it, it made all the sense in the world to be us three to the end and if it is the best way for me to go; great, I made the deal. If it’s not, I’ll make another deal.”

Maybe this was the best scene of the season. It was a fun reward and they made it fun to watch also. Even at this late stage of the game, we got some personal insight into Mike, learning a bit more about him and getting a laugh at the same time. It’s a good sign to see Mike being fleshed out a little more.
As for the game, we also learned a lot. First and foremost, the theme of the “Unbeatable Denise” surfaced once again. Hearing Malcolm say he wanted to get rid of her gives Denise an excuse if she votes against him at F4 so that’s encouraging for those that see Denise as a winner.
On the other hand, we heard that one of her selling points to the jury is that she hasn’t betrayed anyone so that has to make us wonder how the jury will react if she betrays Malcolm.
Listening to Mike’s confessional, he seemed to say that the alliance with Malcolm was only meant as a way to get to the end if Malcolm wins F4 immunity but Lisa’s confessional twisted it around to mean that Mike was on board with keeping Malcolm no matter what happens. That would make Mike an idiot! In the end, the scene showed that Lisa was the real player, the one thinking about the options and the deals yet to be made.


Day 36

Denise: “This morning, I got up and, as soon as I moved…it was like my neck was on fire…I don’t know if I am having an allergic reaction to something that bit me…I’m telling myself to suck it up; you have three days left!”

Lisa and Mike prayed for Denise’s health.

Abi: “I feel bad for Denise…but what scares me most is Denise winning immunity.”
The grimace that we saw her make wasn’t meant to endear her to us.

What was the message of this scene? First, we see that nothing can stop Denise. It certainly made her look tough. I think that the prayer scene was more important though as it clearly showed that Lisa and Mike were better sports than Abi. They prayed for a rival’s health instead of hoping for an opportunity to advance in the game. In a way, it even balanced out their prayer for victory in a challenge showing that they weren’t selfish.

The Immunity Challenge

Denise told Jeff she had been bitten.
Jeff told Abi it was an opening.
(Too much game talk, not enough zingers. I was hoping for something witty like when Heidi was bitten by a spider but Probst has lost it.)

I noted with vivid interest these two comments by Jeff:
“A huge setback for Malcolm. He was right there at the end…”
“Denise thinks she has it. Denise is very close but something is not right…One piece (vote?) can cost you a million bucks.”
Despite Malcolm’s comeback in this challenge, these two lines sounded like huge hints about the outcome of the season

When he handed Malcolm the necklace, Jeff noted that with it and the immunity idol, he had huge powers for the next TC.

Denise: “Knowing that Malcolm won and not Abi was a huge relief. Tonight is a slam dunk: There’s no other name that I am going to be writing down than Abi. The torture of dealing with her will be done.”

This confessional spot is more often reserved to the person that gets the boot instead of the decoy boot. It’s usually an ironic confessional that sets up the player’s upcoming blindside. The irony here could only be that Denise’s torture isn’t over. She will have to deal with Abi-the-juror so maybe that’s what was set up. Will it be the one vote that will cost Denise the million?

Camp

The fire was hot so Mike got injured!
This time, it was just a little spark.

Abi: “I lost today to Malcolm…I need Skupin and Lisa to vote with me against Denise.”

She told a quiet Mike that she was his best chance at winning this game.

Mike (solo): “You’d think it would be an easy decision tonight; it’s just not because everything matters so much when you get down to the end game like this. You have to consider every scenario if you want to come out on top.” Finally, Mike told Abi that she made a lot of sense and he’d talk to Lisa. Mike’s confessional continued: “Abi hasn’t done anything likable at all in a game where you want to be liked by everyone but, hanging out with Abi for the next three days would definitely be worth the million dollars.”

Mike joined Lisa in the shelter and told her that Abi proposed a Final 3 deal to them which surprised Lisa.
Lisa wanted them to consider voting off Denise.

While this was going on, Denise was asking Malcolm if he’d consider giving her the idol.
Malcolm said they wouldn’t keep Abi.

Malcolm: “…I have no intention of giving Denise the immunity idol; she’s safe…My mom is going to get a little something to put on her shelf.”

Back in the shelter, Mike pointed out that Denise could help them beat Malcolm at F4 immunity.

Lisa: “We may need Denise to beat Malcolm… I want to go to the end with Abi, someone that would be easier to beat but Malcolm won the immunity necklace today and he is getting more and more dangerous by the day. If he continues to win immunity he’ll win the whole game so we need all available manpower to defeat Malcolm and Abi hasn’t done anything so we may need Denise in there to knock Malcolm out of there. Since my brother came out here, he has recalibrated me and tonight’s decision for me is purely based on strategy. You have to play out all the different scenarios and see which trade-off will cost me the most and which trade-off will reward me the most and then hoping that I guess right.”

Tribal Council

Lisa told Jeff that Abi played Survivor and didn’t go down without a fight.
Abi told Jeff that her back was against the wall.
Jeff told her she was detested and laughed at and that she was just not nice which, to Jeff meant she might be good to take to the end.
Denise said Abi was perfect to take to the end because she didn’t outplay, outwit and outlast.
Jeff said she had outwitted, outplayed and outlasted 13 people in the game.
Denise countered that there was some luck to that because Tandang never had to go to tribal council.
This reply angered Lisa who said that Tandang wasn’t lucky, they were strong.
Denise tried to correct what she said by agreeing with Lisa but it still left the impression of foot in mouth.
Malcolm said he was considering who he could beat.
Abi interrupted to say that they could not beat Denise. She added that Lisa and Skupin were not winning.
Mike tried to tell Jeff what he thought about that but Abi interrupted him, saying he was an idiot. She then called him a moron.
Mike simply said that was Abi’s way of communicating.
Abi added: “He thinks he’s going to win a million dollars in the end and he’s not.”
Lisa said she would take Abi to the end.
Abi told Jeff she just wanted to make it to Final 3.
Jeff said people had won that way.
Malcolm agreed: “If you take Abi because you think she is a goat, she won’t go down without a fight.”
Abi agreed she was a loudmouth but that she was playing for a million dollars contrary to Denise who was there to make friends.
Denise correected her saying she was indeed there for the million.

After snuffing Abi’s torch, Jeff looked at the F4 and commented that we were down to 2 Tandangs and 2 Matsings.
When the four walked away, we saw Mike doing a happy dance and heard Lisa laughing.

The Story

The story of a Matsing player winning the game is right there for everyone to see and, despite our impressions that editors love misdirections and irony, the story in Survivor has often been straightforward. There was very little done to hide that Tom, Yul, Earl, JT and Rob would win except our own penchant for mystery.
So: Malcolm or Denise? Malcolm has always looked like the nice guy who falls short and even if he was the best player this season, he will probably wind up as the last juror. If Malcolm wins F4 immunity, he wins even if he thinks Denise would beat him.

So Denise wins. It certainly has been the prima-facie evidence presented in the 4th episode by Russell. That story was corroborated by Malcolm during that same TC and it was repeated by Malcolm, Lisa and Abi in this episode. She would be a deserving winner, having attended every Tribal Council of the season. Like Abi said, she is good with words and her story is easy enough to tell that she may not have to convince the jury. May as well say she’ll win 8-0 even if that means she’d get Abi’s vote!

Then what do we make of all those carefully crafted confessionals by both Lisa and Mike? They were the ones chosen to tell us about their strategy while Denise was more often than not ignored before crucial TC votes. It could be explained by saying those confessionals were shown to tell us where Lisa and Mike failed, where they made their crucial mistakes. When we heard Mike and Lisa say that they would need Denise to beat Malcolm at Final 4, it felt as if they were forgetting the credit Denise would receive for winning that challenge. Wouldn’t it have been more appropriate to rely on each other, to say that they’ll need to win that Final Immunity themselves in order to be considered deserving winners? It would be quite ironic to see either Mike or Lisa win final immunity but have no option but to keep Denise. The message would be: If only they had kept Abi!

I am going to take the opposite view though and say that we heard those thoughts because they were important. Lisa and Mike have been the key players in the game since the merge and it was their strategy that we followed. So much that it sounded weird when Malcolm said he had been the driving force behind the last few votes. He may have gotten what he wanted but it was only because Lisa and Mike sided with him after carefully considering the alternatives. Denise may look unbeatable in front of the jury but we have seen her twice now make mistakes during councils. First, arguing with Abi and now implying that Tandang had been lucky.

Also, there was the prayer shown after Denise was bitten by an animal which made me go back to what Denise had said about prayers: “I’m respectful but it’s just not my gig. I don’t pray for anything. Anything that’s going to get me to the end of the game, it’s going to be me.” The implication here was clear: Denise needed that prayer so she didn’t get to the end of the game by herself.

So Denise loses! To me that would mean the editors did serve us some irony and some misdirections and this season would still have some interest.

A Tandang wins but which one?

I had been on board of Lisa’s win early on, saying she fit the themes much better than Denise, until I thought that Mike was the Dog that Didn’t Bark and that the story was edited as the Return of the Phoenix but I may have gone overboard with that story! Mike could be the journey player instead of Lisa and his Journey, spanning a decade, was to get back on the adventure that he so clearly loved. His Journey would have ended with his son’s visit when, finally, they could say they had done it together. That visit was very important to Mike as we heard when he chose Malcolm for this reward so it could have been his “victory”.

Last week, I wrote: “To win, Lisa would need to play with her head without forgetting about her heart but that’s what has caused her so many problems.” She did exactly that in this episode, always looking for her best options and analyzing all the scenarios. Her story could have been edited in opposition to Mike’s: Where the family visit ended his journey, it got Lisa going on the path to victory. Once more, we heard her saying that her brother’s visit helped her a lot and there’d be nothing more Jeff would like to say that those sappy moments that many fans abhor, are really important. The reunion show would already be scripted and it would center on the importance of family which would tie into the season.

Abi said that Denise was good with words but Lisa showed she is very good at making her point and that, contrary to Denise, her point carries weight with the jury. Lisa’s roller coaster ride of emotions probably cost her many fans along the way but seeing her win would make for one of the most complete stories in the series history. The calculating player would still have shown torrents of emotions and the message would be clear: You can show emotions, be a nice person but still scheme and make big moves because it is a game.

Of course, my (virtual) money has been placed on Mike a long time ago so I’m still looking for his story to end with victory even if I think it’s unlikely now. One of the few players to receive personal development during the merge scene, we got to know him a little more in this late episode which should be a good sign but is it enough?

His confessional about the importance of the decisions this late in the game gives hope that he will fare better in answering questions than he did replying to Abi’s attacks in this last TC. His happy dance after the council could have been shown to prepare us for his celebration after Jeff reads the vote but I think, like Colby, he will be just as happy to see his partner win.



"RE: Episode 13- "You Can't Beat Denise""
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-16-12 at 09:42 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-16-12 AT 09:47 AM (EST)

Last week, I wrote: “To win, Lisa would need to play with her head without forgetting about her heart but that’s what has caused her so many problems.” She did exactly that in this episode, always looking for her best options and analyzing all the scenarios. Her story could have been edited in opposition to Mike’s: Where the family visit ended his journey, it got Lisa going on the path to victory.

I don't know, michel. As I noted above, I see both Lisa and Skupin as journey players who were also taken to the end as goats. I agree that Skupins adventure was more about finishing what he started so long ago in Australia. And, he finished as far as he could. Just getting to the end completes his circle.

How can one not think that Lisa wasn't the journey player when all that BS about her childhood came up, about always trying to please others no matter what, and all the tears and then seeing that same person in the game? I think Lisa's journey ends with her finally playing with her head and not her heart. We have seen the emotions and turmoil that the conflict has brought on Lisa through the entire show. Her brother coming was the catalyst that she needed to keep this game and her LIFE in perspective. And, thanks to the family visit with her brother, her conflict in the game, namely how to get rid of the most dangerous player of all-Malcolm, which she has been he!! bent on getting rid of ever since she snooped in his bag and discovered the HII, will really complete her journey for good. I hope!

Having Lisa win this game would be a very disappointing ending, for me. Maybe not for others, but for me. As I noted above though, I do like having a wild card like Lisa in the game, however, because her wild actions, reactions create havoc for all the other players.

ETA: I will add that I have really enjoyed this season. I do think that Malcolm is "going to do something crazy" and fall short of the F3. We have seen multiple hints of that building. So, if Skupin, Lisa, and Denise are the F3, then I think there is some hope and some arguments that each may possibly end up as the winner! All in all a very fun season. Thanks so much, michel and others, for all the great spec in this wonderful thread of Veruca's! I always love to read it! Would love to have Veruca weigh in at this point when there is doubt and hope for all! LOL!


"RE: Episode 13- "You Can't Beat Denise""
Posted by michel on 12-16-12 at 11:23 AM
"How can one not think that Lisa wasn't the journey player"

Because journey players don't get to tell us about their strategy. Even Cirie, one of the best strategists ever was mostly shut down from the strategy in Panama so that we wouldn't be distracted from her journey. This season has all been about Lisa's moves, decisions and turmoil so now that she has it resolved, it's a beginning not an end.

Denise may be more deserving but the editors butchered the story by telling us she can't be beaten. To me that would be so anti-climactic to hear her name as "soul (sic) survivor". We could have stopped watching after episode 4 when Swann crowned her.


"RE: Episode 13- "You Can't Beat Denise""
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-16-12 at 02:12 PM
"How can one not think that Lisa wasn't the journey player"
Because journey players don't get to tell us about their strategy. Even Cirie, one of the best strategists ever was mostly shut down from the strategy in Panama so that we wouldn't be distracted from her journey. This season has all been about Lisa's moves, decisions and turmoil so now that she has it resolved, it's a beginning not an end.

At this point there is suspense regarding the winner, and I do LOVE that.

But, that's the beauty of editing, isn't it? That we see things that stand out differently, perhaps. And, I am not going to say right or wrong, because we will see as the game plays out. But, it's just what really speaks to us. Lisa's whole conflict for me was can I play an underhanded, backstabbing, lying game while I am a God-fearing Christian woman? When her brother comes and reminds her that this is a game, then she seems like she's come full circle to me.

And, with a final 3 and some articulate people in the F3, you never know. It could perhaps be anyone's game, especially if the votes end up being rather split. I can't wait to hear the arguments, as Jiffy told us that he thought after the arguments were made at F3, it was clear to him who deserved to be the winner. Can't wait to transcribe tonights episode so everyone can weigh in on that point!

Denise may be more deserving but the editors butchered the story by telling us she can't be beaten. To me that would be so anti-climactic to hear her name as "soul (sic) survivor". We could have stopped watching after episode 4 when Swann crowned her.

You are right, here, michel. The editors have manipulated Denise's edit here, post merge, imo. In the first half of the show they showed us that she had to scramble to survive, and they showed us how she did it, and they gave her meaty confessionals regarding her strategy, not relying on prayer, etc, and they gave us other players talking about her possibly winning the show. All things that a winner has in most seasons. But, after the merge she dipped way off the radar. And, you have to ask, why? We also still hear Malcolm say that if Denise gets to the F3, she wins, why? I think that Denise may be so articulate and in touch with the game that she's being hidden. I think it could be to cast doubt on her win. Which is also another ingredient for the winner.

I also see shades of Denise's story coming into play NOW with the remaining promos. She's coming out of the background because her arc will possibly end with the win. I just see Skupin and Lisa more as the tools by which she gets there.

This is going to be a fun ending to a good season and I am really looking forward to it!




"RE: Episode 13- "You Can't Beat Denise""
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-16-12 at 09:03 PM
Fun to read your penultimate episode summary, Michel!

You've had a much different outlook on some of the edits this season than I have, and it reminds me of how so many perspectives can come into play while watching a good season of Survivor.

While reading this summary of yours, the first three paragraphs of "The Story" I can totally see, and from there you go in directions that I just have not seen. All good, all cool. Adds to possible stories that are happening!

Enjoy the finale!!

- aaron


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-16-12 at 08:57 PM
You're welcome, FloPo!

Very interesting that we've noticed lots of the same things, especially in a season that has lots to work with, and with others highlighting different thoughts about the edits. Really does make for a more enjoyable season!

So true that Lisa's conflict got put into a higher gear with Malcolm and the idol, and this will all likely end at final four TC. She will be granted the opportunity to recap her journey at FTC, but it likely won't be enough to swing the majority of votes her way.

I'm really looking forward to the remaining players selling their pitches at FTC. I think Denise will do a great job at it!

Enjoy the finale!!

- aaron


"RE: Ep 13 - Editing thoughts on the remaining players"
Posted by mimo on 12-16-12 at 10:56 AM
Thanks everyone for posting your thoughts and making this season even more interesting. I think this has been an unusual season in which there is no clear winner (or loser) and we have a final four in which while people might have their favorites (and less favorites) each has a compelling argument to win.

That said, given the natural bitterness of juries, I suspect our winner will be from one of the original Matsing (either Denise or Malcolm.) Their pairing has reminded me of JT & Stephen -- in which we heard strategy talk from Stephen and everyone just loved JT. In the end Stephen knew he couldn't take JT to the end, while JT seemed to feel like he had to take Stephen for people to continue to respect his game play. If we compare Malcolm and Denise, we're getting the strategy talk from Malcolm (even though all the scenes seem to show everyone loves Malcolm) with Denise taking the back role. Given the focus that's being put on the decision the final IC winner makes as to who they take to the end, it would seem that either Denise or Malcolm win final IC and therefore either win or lose the title of sole survivor. We've seen Malcolm is willing to jettison Denise (so does that make Malcolm Stephen while Denise is JT)? Denise has stated being willing to take the strongest to the end (but again if she becomes aware of Malcolm's intention to cut her loose at F4, then she gets an automatic out.) All this makes me lean towards a Denise victory in both IC and the game.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-18-12 at 03:22 AM
A great season! A great winner! I really enjoyed Survivor Philippines!!

Figured I'd add another post here highlighting some blurbs, primarily surrounding Denise, that I wrote throughout the season. I'm in agreement with Jonathan as he voted at TC, as I too feel Denise played a flawless game. It was fun watching it all season long - here are the highlights:

Episode 5:

"One of the themes be "fighting back." As has been noted here, we can see emphasis from this theme along with strategy talk in being flexible and working with what you're given (As we heard in key confessionals from Lisa, Michael, and Denise)"

"There was still continued focus on Masting when coming back from TC, making things look really nice for Denise & Malcolm. Editing could've easily used some of that time for showcasing the other tribes even more, but it didn't. And this continued further when focus was still on Malcolm and Denise when they arrived in their new tribes. They have been set up so nicely as a major part of this season's story. Does this pair hold the winner? Well, from an editing standpoint the two look to go far and at the very least will play together again on the same tribe, as their story as an alliance is not over."

Episode 6:

"Denise - Like with Malcolm, the recap highlighted Denise's progression so far in this game. We were reminded of her great quote "Every step is an opportunity to turn things around." This was yet another good episode for her, even though the attention wasn't mainly on her. Like with the first scene with Katie, not only did it help set up Katie's boot, but we once again got to see Denise in action with another player working her magic. Also in Ep6 we now hear 3 more players in the game (Jeff and Carter, then Penner) talk about her work ethic and loyalty, and ability to win challenges. We are consistently being told of Denise's value. Plus, we can now add to Denise's list of remarkable quotes: in response to the letters from home, she stated "It's motivational fuel, it's emotional fuel... to just keep going" And yes, while many of her quotes could be weaving the narrative for the Survivor story, it has a feeling of being about Denise's personal journey through this game. Along with the rest of her deliberate attention she's getting, this makes it more than a journey edit, but rather a winner's edit."

Episode 7 merge:

"The Matsing story went from being the demised tribe, to a story of survival for Malcolm and Denise. The recap continues to highlight Malcolm and Denise, even when the aren't the top players in the coming episode. We are meant to remember their story and their connection - which is very good for them."

"Denise - Again we hear in recap "every step is an opportunity to turn things around." This is the mantra to which we are to view Denise. And wouldn't that just be a lovely winning mantra too. We got to see Denise too with her Individual Immunity win. Not as prominent as others in this merge episode. But with her II win, and her moment connected with Malcolm, we are still aware that Denise is in this. Even though she was likely brought in on the plan about how the votes would be split between RC and Jonathan, she was out of the fray of what went down. We continually see flexibility in Denise her thoughts and actions. With first stating that she's stay with the 4 Kalabaw, to wanting to reconnect with Malcolm, to then making a decision to stick with the majority and keep herself safe and not a target. This is how you get to the end in Survivor."

Episode 8:

"Regarding Denise, yes, she has proven to be very resilient. And she may be (arguably) the best edited under-the-radar player the show has seen. With the demise of Matsing and her assimilation into the nuKalabaw, the audience has been privy to see why Denise would choose an UTR strategy and be rewarded for it. Plus, if you add in the factors that she is both a good physical and social player, then UTR is totally working for her game at this point - as the target can be put on other good physical and social players."

Episode 10:

"Regarding Denise, yes, she has a narrator presence post-merge, although I feel she always had, she was just second to Malcolm and Jonathon at times. I also feel she has remained relevant since the merge, its just that often times editing focuses on other big players that are finishing up their storylines. Since the merge episode, Denise (along with Malcolm) was mentioned in the recaps, has continued to be shown strongly in challenges (along with winning the first II challenge), has been shown in key strategic discussions (she suggested Artis), and has gotten to re-iterate her mantra of "every step is an opportunity to turn things around." Even in this past episode, with all the attention on the back-and-forth between Denise and Abi at TC, it was Denise who was shown articulating this what the rest of the 6 were thinking. From an editing standpoint this is good for her, like a pre-jury speech. Especially when considering factors like Pete saying they were ALL coming down on Abi (although Denise was showcased) and Jonathan's comment last episode (albeit to Lisa) about what would the audience want to see this season. The audience wanted to see Abi get put in her place, and the editors had Denise deliver it to us!"

"I agree with the consensus here that the back-and-forth between Denise and Abi at TC was not damaging for Denise... While I did actually feel for Abi a slight bit (considering she's classified as a villain, but responded with some emotion, rather than being smug) I felt Denise was articulate and as cool, honest & direct about it as she could be. Denise stated what the others were thinking and what the audience had been viewing of Abi all season. Which reminded me of Jonathan's comment to Lisa from last episode about what would the audience want to see this season. I believe the audience wanted to see Abi get put in her place, and Denise was the one to finally do it!"

"All season I've been looking at Denise and Lisa to make it to FTC, and with each episode it looks like Mike has the best chance to be the third in a final 3 scenario."

"This brings us to Denise. Her edit seems like the classic ingredients of substance, frequency and relevance to the game. She's stated clear points to the themes of the season, like how things can change at every turn. She is continually visible through her challenge prowess, Jeff's commentary, social interactions at camp, strategic decision-making, key confessionals and speaking at tribal. A sprinkling of all these things throughout ALL of the episodes. Yes, some episodes have less than others, but this is the subtlety the editors use to make the winner not look TOO obvious. With the exception of Boston Rob, our winner has some kind of ebb and flow. Denise is good in all areas (triple threat, having prowess in strategy, social skills, and challenges) similar in that way to Kim from One World. She's playing a great game, and doing her share on the survival aspect (which seems to take less precedence in recent seasons). The difference with Denise and Kim from a storyline or editing point of view is that Denise is playing with returning players, as well as better players, therefore the ratio of her game portrayal then changes. If there were no returning players and less stronger players this season, we'd likely see even more of the powerhouse that Denise is. But that would make her an obvious winner like Kim. Fortunately it makes for a better season to have a lot of the endgame players still playing the game, and having their strengths in the game to be what causes the doubt to a Denise win, rather than more editing manipulation for her competitors."

Episode 13:

"The last 3 consecutive tribal councils have provided us a min-story arc of Denise vs Abi - making for some great TC theatre. In the first act, when Abi was obliterated by Denise's words, I saw this as a good thing for Denise as she was stating what everyone was feeling about Abi (both viewers and remaining players). I also thought it was nicely crafted by the editors to portray, simultaneously, scenes to allow us to have BOTH sympathy for Abi (as she would soon be an underdog and win Individual Immunity when it was most pivotal for her) and to give some needed attention to Denise (as her post merge story was beginning to fade) Their first TC exchange was just the beginning, and it played nicely for the editors to give some juicy fireworks at a time in the game that often stalls due to having some predictable boots. Then during Carter's TC boot, we revisited Denise and Abi, and were able to see Denise walk through the minefield some more - facing her most difficult opponent, socially, so far in the game. In this last episode, we now got to see what this arc was leading up to - having these two polar opposites stranded on the beach together with nowhere to turn from each other. Awesome! The editors likely saw this as story-telling gold They got the chance to highlight the feisty villainess in her attempts to hang-on to the game, while weaving some story (and doubt) into one the strongest remaining players. And a good job at that - it was highly entertaining! In the end, Denise prevailed and Abi was sent packing - providing the outcome that most viewers were likely hoping to see."

"Malcolm & Denise have had the strongest bond throughout this game. Yes, Mike and Lisa are tight, but we have seen much more connection and focus on Malcolm and Denise early in the game and highlighted in recaps at the pivotal merge time. Their alliance was edited nicely and continued to sway viewers to view their pairing most positively. This episode we finally see that even this powerful, likeable alliance will come to end - as they have made it to the final four and it is an individual game for them now. Interestingly we heard of the break-up from Malcolm. He was the one shown to make the final 3 deal with Lisa and Mike, and turn on his trusted alliance mate. While this is smart strategy for him to win, in terms of his likeable edit, it could be a kink in his noble armor that he would consider betraying Denise. Also of note, I think many would have loved to see Malcolm play his idol for Denise (just in case) as they found this together and shared a bond for so long. Although it didn't appear that Denise was in much danger, Malcolm holding onto the idol spoke volumes that this is an individual game. Denise has been granted permission to do what she needs to get to the end. Which appears to be a better position for Denise editing-wise as she was let go and was never shown opposing her alliance mate (who many have come to love)"

"Denise pushing through he pain from being bitten by an island creature, connected nicely to her early statement that she had way back in episode 2, that it is "she" who will get herself to the end. Whether in the form of pain from a creature's bite or being in the line of Abi's fire, Denise is coming through "every step" the game is throwing at her "to regroup and turn it around." And her episode 4 accolades of being the person to beat this season, are finally echoed just in time to set the stage for the final episode."

"Denise - Along with her emotional testimonial to "suck it up, you have 3 days left" regarding the pain she was feeling, we once again hear that Denise would win the game if she makes it to the end. The case for Denise was clearly spelled out by the others on the reward challenge. We hear Malcolm state: "the only way anyone has a shot at winning is if Denise isn't sitting there" Further stating "Nobody beats Denise" - to have Lisa chime in "she's been at every tribal council" then back to Malcolm, "nobody works harder, and she hasn't betrayed anybody" Whether all of this is true or not, it was a pivotal scene that allowed the audience to be reminded of why Denise has earned the title of Sole Survivor."


Thanks for everyone's speculation on the editing too!!


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by CTgirl on 12-18-12 at 10:44 AM
Nice job Aaron! You did a wonderful job following Denise throughout her journey to the win.

I will admit that I fell in line with michel's thinking that Mike would win for a while but I came back from the dark side () and thought Denise would win after watching episode 13. The turning point for me was when they showcased Denise's bug bite. I am sure many survivors have been bitten over the years. They showed this one because it fit with her surviving against the odds theme and at that one moment everything fell into place for me.

It was a great season with likable characters. I didn't participate much but I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. Looking forward to fans vs. favorites.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-21-12 at 03:49 AM
Thanks CTgirl!

Yes, with such a strong beginning (and Matsing going to TC 4x in a row) Denise had to be toned down a bit. Still there was plenty there throughout the season for us to see of her. The bug bite scene and confessional were perfect to allow the editors to highlight Denise's fighting spirit!

-aaron


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-18-12 at 08:32 PM
"Denise...has been shown in key strategic discussions (she suggested Artis)"

So? Stacy suggested El Doucho. See the ECST for more on this.


"Yes, some episodes have less than others, but this is the subtlety the editors use to make the winner not look TOO obvious."

The main problem was that the theme of the season was: "Denise wins." There was no subtlety in the editing it was right in our face. That's a terrible way to tell a story.

"I agree with the consensus here that the back-and-forth between Denise and Abi at TC was not damaging for Denise"

Funny! I got Penner on my side: He called Denise a bitch and her passive-aggressive manner with Abi was a big part of that.

As for the Abi-Denise arc it was particularly boring and repetitive. Anyway, Abi wasn't a true villian, she was an obnoxious brat so, by fighting with her, Denise looked childish as well.
If editing had been more accurate we may have seen that RC was the real villain!

"Further stating "Nobody beats Denise" - to have Lisa chime in "she's been at every tribal council" then back to Malcolm, "nobody works harder, and she hasn't betrayed anybody" Whether all of this is true or not, it was a pivotal scene that allowed the audience to be reminded of why Denise has earned the title of Sole Survivor."

She deserved the title of sole survivor yes, but we deserved a better story. This was like giving us the ending before we got to the last chapter. There had to be more but there wasn't.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-18-12 at 09:21 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-18-12 AT 09:31 PM (EST)

Like I said on the ECST, Penner still voted for Denise. And if that's the worst thing said about Denise, she comes out far ahead of the three finalists - Skupin has had about 12 derogatory things said about him (again, check my reply to you on ECST) and Lisa has been called a crazy, weepy Christian lady who cries all the time and is wishy washy. I'll take Denise's "bitchiness" over what had been said about the other two, any time, particularly when it came from an obviously grandstanding Penner who still voted for her over the other two.

You were one of the few who still thought Skupin had a chance, most of the others went with Denise and if you look on the ECST, the vast majority are happy with the way the show ended up. Not getting the result that you wanted from your editing analysis isn't a reason to dump on the season's editing as a whole as you seem to be the most unhappy one of all on RTVW about the result. Still don't understand what you mean by "we deserve a better story" when plenty of people are happy with the story.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-19-12 at 00:17 AM
I'm just saying how I feel about the season. If you don't agree, that's fine but if my opinion bothers people, I can only assume it's because I'm hitting a nerve. How often have we heard winners called Bitches during FTC?

As for your sample of happy people, I'll just say that we are in a spoiler thread. People here enjoyed seasons even if they knew the outcome before it started which is fine but I don't like it when the story itself is that obvious. Imagine an Agatha Christie story where everyone knows whodunnit by page 25.

Fan favorite voting tells me a majority of people would have prefered seeing Malcolm or Lisa win and that is a large sample of truly clueless people!

I'll go to the ECST now!


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by dabo on 12-19-12 at 00:30 AM
I think Lisa got an endgame bounce thanks to the loved ones visit, she was a lot easier to take in the final stretch than she had been up to then. Plus there are all the FOL fans. And her fans of her books, followers of her religious work.

If Jeff had made it that far in the game there would probably have been a contingient of MLB folks organized into an anyone but Jeff Kent vote.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-19-12 at 11:39 PM
I'm not sure how many FOL fans watched Survivor and decided to vote but say you are right, my point is better with Malcolm. Posters here almost all follow spoilers and knew since last May that Malcolm wasn't winning. Your expectation of the story is therefore quite different than that of casual fans.

My hypothesis is that it was easier to accept the way this season was edited when you knew Malcolm wasn't winning. The fans had to expect a much different outcome. They heard that Denise couldn't be beaten but they had to hope that Malcolm would beat her in the end. I did the same thing with Mike and the Phoenix angle.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by dabo on 12-19-12 at 11:45 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-19-12 AT 11:55 PM (EST)

Spoilers, well at least me and some others, remain suspicious of sources and look for signs the dominoes are falling inorder. missyea threw out at least one red herring this season.

But, yeah, many were convinced that Malcolm would lose, based on not one but two spoils.

In any event, it really isn't important who wins Fan Fave, it is a popularity contest; though I was hoping Penner could get it because I really enjoyed watching him play this time.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-20-12 at 06:21 PM
>In any event, it really isn't
>important who wins Fan Fave...


I agree with you on that. On a scale, it's as unimportant as saying that some people here liked the story. I highly doubt that anyone would count it among their favorites anyway.

The premerge was dreadful with all the eliminations being evident. It picked up a bit after the merge and we did have 4 likable finalists but it's pretty sad that the highlight of the season was Abi winning immunity.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-20-12 at 08:01 AM
Before the season, numerous spoilers suggested that Skupin was the winner and none suggested Denise. I still did not allow myself to be influenced and followed the clues that were more indicative of a Denise win, so it was clearer to me and several others that this would happen and the same spoilers suggested that Malcolm would a villain and we know that villains for the most part do not win Survivor. It was clear since early in the season that Denise had a better story than Malcolm (you noted that back then as well) so that was another determining factor that it'd be Denise and not Malcolm at the end.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by 3rd Place Winner on 12-18-12 at 10:01 PM
Michel, you are one of the most insightful analysts of editing, but with respect I think you are looking at things too negatively.

Personally, one of the things I love about Survivor is the unpredictability, and how every season is different. Some seasons, it's very obvious who wins, and other seasons, it is not. (And the fact that the obvious frontrunner sometimes loses makes the outcome a mystery every season.)

But for me, this was not one of the "obvious" seasons.

The simple fact is that the editing led you, Michel (again, a very insightful analyst of Survivor editing), to believe the winner would be either Skupin or Lisa -- so I'd say that the editors did an amazing job of casting doubt on Denise and making people think that she may not win.

The editors gave us reasons to think all 4 finalists could plausibly win. I, too, thought the winner would be Skupin or Lisa -- but I was delighted to be proven wrong. The ending ran contrary to my predictions, and that was thrilling to me.

Philippines was an EXCELLENT season, in my opinion. The best one since Heroes vs. Villains, and especially satisfying following the relative duds we saw in between. Kim was the obvious winner of One World (and like Denise she was totally deserving), but the lack of doubt made the season unexciting. This season was exciting and fun, and the fact that we went into the finale with 4 potential winners made it all the more fun for me.

In hindsight (and after reading interviews with the cast), I see that Skupin and Lisa had virtually no chance of winning unless they were sitting with Abi (and even then, Abi might have pulled it out). But the editors did a masterful job of making some of us believe that Skupin/Lisa win would be plausible.

Michel, as a long-time reader of your posts, I think you offer brilliant, well-reasoned analyses that I look forward to reading every week, despite your sometimes prickly attitude toward people who question or disagree with you (myself potentially included). I would be so interested to read your take on the finale episode's editing, as well as a post-season overview of the whole season. I'd be thrilled to read that from anyone here, like FloPo or Aaron (great posts this season, Aaron) or of course the fantastic Veruca Salt.

Please don't abandon this thread! Let lurkers like me know how you view the editing of the whole season, where it led you astray, and all the clues (if any) you now realize you missed along the way. Please - I need something to read between now and FvF!

P.S. - I also disagree that a straightforward edit of an "obvious" winner necessarily equals a bad or poorly-edited season. I think the winners of Africa, Cook Islands, and especially Palau were fairly easy to call from early on, and those were all (in my opinion) great seasons!


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-19-12 at 00:06 AM
>Michel, you are one of the
>most insightful analysts of editing,
>but with respect I think
>you are looking at things
>too negatively.

First, welcome aboard and thank you very much.


>Personally, one of the things I
>love about Survivor is the
>unpredictability, and how every season
>is different. Some seasons, it's
>very obvious who wins, and
>other seasons, it is not.
>(And the fact that the
>obvious frontrunner sometimes loses makes
>the outcome a mystery every
>season.)
>But for me, this was not
>one of the "obvious" seasons.

I'm sorry but it was for me. The only reason why it wasn't is because we expect the unexpected. When the unexpected doesn't happen, it feels anti-climactic.

>The simple fact is that the
>editing led you, Michel (again,
>a very insightful analyst of
>Survivor editing), to believe the
>winner would be either Skupin
>or Lisa -- so
>I'd say that the editors
>did an amazing job of
>casting doubt on Denise and
>making people think that she
>may not win.

It wasn't the editing that led me astray. I thought we'd finally have a Final 2 when the jury started at F11. I thought that 9 jurors and a Final 2 was the way the numbers and the episodes would work out.

Then, when it started looking like it would be another stupid Final 3, I thought Skupin and Lisa would be smart enough to take Abi. That was gameplay analysis not really editing analysis.

I had been all in for Skupin for so long that I couldn't really change so late in the season. I didn't analyze just the editing but started looking at the game.

Finally, the penultimate episode made me admit that the Rise of the Phoenix was only telling us that Skupin made it to the end, not the win. I was still hoping for a surprise though so I looked at it from Lisa's angle. Denise was simply too obvious.


>The editors gave us reasons to
>think all 4 finalists could
>plausibly win. I, too,
>thought the winner would be
>Skupin or Lisa -- but
>I was delighted to be
>proven wrong. The ending
>ran contrary to my predictions,
>and that was thrilling to
>me.

I have often been thrilled to be wrong also, most notably with Bob and JT but here? Denise's story had to be dropped for her win to be somewhat hidden. Not very good storytelling in my opinion. That scene with Swan in TC needed to be cut. Don't tell us Denise can't be beaten.


>Philippines was an EXCELLENT season, in
>my opinion. The best
>one since Heroes vs. Villains,
>and especially satisfying following the
>relative duds we saw in
>between. Kim was the
>obvious winner of One World
>(and like Denise she was
>totally deserving), but the lack
>of doubt made the season
>unexciting. This season was
>exciting and fun, and the
>fact that we went into
>the finale with 4 potential
>winners made it all the
>more fun for me.

I prefer One World. Chelsea and Sabrina had good enough edits to win and Kim's strategy was there for us to savor. Mostly, One World was funny at times (Kat was hilarious, Tarzan was amusing and Alicia vs Christina was awkwardly funny while Abi vs Denise was childish).

This season had practically no laughs and something that doesn't make me laugh isn't worth watching.


>In hindsight (and after reading interviews
>with the cast), I see
>that Skupin and Lisa had
>virtually no chance of winning
>unless they were sitting with
>Abi (and even then, Abi
>might have pulled it out).
> But the editors did
>a masterful job of making
>some of us believe that
>Skupin/Lisa win would be plausible.

I think we were looking, hoping, for something that was simply not there.

>Michel, as a long-time reader of
>your posts, I think you
>offer brilliant, well-reasoned analyses that
>I look forward to reading
>every week, despite your sometimes
>prickly attitude toward people who
>question or disagree with you
>(myself potentially included). I
>would be so interested to
>read your take on the
>finale episode's editing, as well
>as a post-season overview of
>the whole season. I'd
>be thrilled to read that
>from anyone here, like FloPo
>or Aaron (great posts this
>season, Aaron) or of course
>the fantastic Veruca Salt.

Thank you again.

>Please don't abandon this thread!
>Let lurkers like me know
>how you view the editing
>of the whole season, where
>it led you astray, and
>all the clues (if any)
>you now realize you missed
>along the way. Please
>- I need something to
>read between now and FvF!


I'll be posting the summary of the final episode in Bashers sometime tomorrow evening and while it's done for laughs it still shows a lot of what I thought about the season.

>P.S. - I also disagree that
>a straightforward edit of an
>"obvious" winner necessarily equals a
>bad or poorly-edited season.
>I think the winners of
>Africa, Cook Islands, and especially
>Palau were fairly easy to
>call from early on, and
>those were all (in my
>opinion) great seasons!

Cook Islands is one of the worst seasons in my opinion. Africa and Palau were better for the location and the laughs than for the game. Palau was especially bad because of all the quitters (a record 6) Give me a Big Tom or a James anytime. Penner is interesting but too strategic to be really funny. And his schtick isn't new.



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by ewjlee on 12-20-12 at 02:16 AM
Michel - Why are you so bitter? Does it really matter that you were wrong with your editing analysis and others were right? For years, I have appreciated the reflections and diversity of analysis coming from this editing analysis thread especially. But Michel, your unwillingness to just let go of being wrong (its ok, we are all wrong sometimes!), is coming across as arrogant. You can dislike Denise, or dislike how she was edited, but can we not just appreciate the diversity of analysis that emerges from this thread? Just wondering...

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-20-12 at 08:07 AM
*applauds*

Welcome ito this place if this is your first time posting! But if you've posted under another name before, we'd like it if you posted under that name instead of creating a new one for this purpose since I can see that you're not the only one on this thread with a new name to offer constructive feedback.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-21-12 at 04:21 AM
Funny you say this, Pepe!

When I came out of lurkerdom to post in S21, I thought some might think I was Michel, or a close cousin, as we shared a lot of similar thoughts, ha!
As we've seen - this season was quite different! All in all, it does make for an interesting read in the end
Hopefully the new posters will contribute some more!

-aaron


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-20-12 at 08:33 AM
I don't give a damn whether I was right or wrong. I think we just witnessed a bad season that had no laughs and offered no mystery in the result. That's what upsets me.

BTW, I felt the same way after Nicaragua even if I was "right" about the winner.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-21-12 at 04:15 AM
>I would be so interested to
>read your take on the
>finale episode's editing, as well
>as a post-season overview of
>the whole season. I'd
>be thrilled to read that
>from anyone here, like FloPo
>or Aaron (great posts this
>season, Aaron) or of course
>the fantastic Veruca Salt.
>

Thanks for the mention, 3rdplace! It's been my pleasure contributing! And I, like you, considered it an excellent season!
Glad to see you've come out of lurking! I lurked since Season 6, then finally contributed in Season 21, 24 & now

As for any editing thoughts about the final episode, I don't have much time now, but may watch again. From what I remember in watching it the first time, I remember it seeming like there was more attention toward Mike and Malcolm from the get go. The last episode usually puts attention on who is getting voted off next, so it wasn't looking good for Malcolm. I felt Mike wasn't in danger as much, so the extra focus on him was looking like he'd be the winner of the final challenge (and he was). I think production would want to use any opportunity to highlight Mike in this last episode as he is a Survivor icon of sorts (even if he were to lose by the end of our viewing) Regarding Denise, I felt she had all the editing needed going into the final episode to already be the winner. The editing of the final episode did not take away from this.

-aaron



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by AaronLittleton on 12-21-12 at 03:56 AM
Ah, Michel, I'm not going to counterpoint your counterpoints (if that makes any sense ;)

I enjoyed this season. You didn't. C'est la vie.

Hope you enjoy next season some more!

Thanks again for all your editing thoughts each episode. While I didn't buy into a Mike win at all this season, your thoughts were certainly an interesting read. The editors would be fortunate to have your storytelling on their side for future seasons.

-aaron


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Phillipines"
Posted by michel on 12-21-12 at 08:33 AM
"I enjoyed this season. You didn't. C'est la vie.|

That's the best way to put it.

By the way, my summary of the finale is up in Bashers:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID1/4285.shtml