I was thinking the same thing as the original poster. Why James/Amanda/Eric did not all go after Jason was beyond me. James knows even if he survives this week he is gone as soon as he loses immunity. Amanda should've gone with it also because who does Amanda trust more at this point James/Eric or Paverti/Natalie? They could've changed the game. Now i see this season going like Vanuutu, I remember how bad I hated that season becasue it was ok, which guy goes home this week.

Depending on who wins immunity it goes like this: James, Eric, Amanda, Cirie...final three Paverti, Natalie and Alexis. Cire might see this and try something but still I haven't liked the way this season has played out.

LAST EDITED ON 04-25-08 AT 04:07 PM (EST)

Amanda's game has never been about winning immunities so beyond perhaps winning the Final IC, which is always ideal, I don't think it can be about that now. Plus, I don't see her being any more capable of winning immunities than Alexis and Parvati. No, she can TRUST James. That's why the guys would be a better go for her. She can not trust any of the women, as she professes to now know, though apparently doesn't plan on doing anything about it. She could have made the F4 with the guys, and then joined with James to vote either Jason or Erik out at F4, preferably Erik since Jason would be the better Finals opponent. Of course, in that scenario, would she just be handing the win to James? Probably.
I guess the only way she can probably win this is to go with the women. Hope the women vote out Alexis at F5 as she is the biggest threat both challenge-wise and due to her being well-liked. Then, Amanda would have to hope either to win the final IC or hope that Parvati would rather take her chances against her rather than against Cirie, which would not be out of the question. Afterall, Amanda would definitely seem to be in a better spot with the jury, with Ozzy and James being virtual locks to vote for her, but on the otherhand, Parvati's only remaining chance to win this might be to take her and Natalie to the finals and hope to crush Amanda at the FTC just like Todd did a season ago.

>

Question - when Jeff Probst had the jury come in and take their seats...did Ozzy flip everyone off or was he just waving his hand at them? I didn't notice and today I've heard from on of my fan friends that he flipped them off? Wow, he's really mad!

Yeah, he was at least flipping Parvati off, if not all of them. He was obviously still upset and when James outed Parvati over booting Ozzy, she squirmed some more under his baleful glare. I got a kick out of it.

>

Oh me too...I love it! Parv better watch out...she's playing a tricky game. I love Ozzy's glare too....who!

LAST EDITED ON 04-25-08 AT 08:06 PM (EST)

>"Amanda's game has never been about winning immunities so beyond perhaps winning the Final IC, which is always ideal, I don't think it can be about that now."

I just wanted to point out that, on the contrary, Amanda said in her jury speech in China that her whole game was to be aligned with people she could beat in challenges at the end.

All along, Amanda knew she had to get rid of James and Ozzy so it was only in the method she was mad, not in the result.

>"They (Terry and James) haven't bought into the "it is only a game" rationale for explaining their actions. No matter how bad of players that makes them, props to them. I would love to see an entire cast of people like them once. Now THAT would be SURVIVOR.
But I thought Amanda might have the smarts and the social game to pull off a maneuver like that. I was wrong, and disappointed."

I see a contradiction in this. You want to see a season where no one lies and deceives but when Amanda couldn't lie and deceive you were disappointed.

I can tell you right now how a season with 16 Terrys would be: Boring beyond belief.

Interesting discussion. You can call it poor gameplay, but they just refuse to lie and deceive and be anything other than trustworthy, up front guys. They haven't bought into the "it is only a game" rationale for explaining their actions. I think you have to differentiate between if players are alliance members or not - James was perfectly willing to "lie & deceive" Jason with the others with the promise of not voting for him in exchange for food. I think the problem James has is not being able to get past linear thinking, and a complete lack of confidence in any of his persuasive abilitites. When he had Amanda aside and told her he was voting for Parvati, I think that was his attempt to sway her & hope that she might sway Erik & maybe Jason.

LAST EDITED ON 04-27-08 AT 03:18 AM (EST)

Oh yes, I do differentiate between alliance members versus those outside of it. The people in your alliance are typically people that you've given your word to. I don't blame people for deceiving people outside their alliance, with whom there should be no expectation of trust. During the faux-guarantee to Jason, James was the very last to give his guarantee and did that quite reluctantly. At that point, he had very little choice unless he really wanted to be the one who kept his entire tribe from eating. He had little choice. However, I do concede that James lied bald-faced to JR last season when he insisted he didn't have the idol. I criticized James for that at the time because I also differentiate between dishonesty or deception versus straight out lying to people's faces. I draw the line there, same as I do in life. So, yes, James hasn't ALWAYS been up front and honest, but seriously, if you have to describe his character, then "straightforward and honest" both certainly apply.

>

I'm glad someone started this thread. When watching the episode and seeing how dumb the girls were that they actually snoop through Jason's belongings while the guys are watching, I thought of this within the following 60 seconds. Thinking about it one day later, I still like it and believe it would have worked.

Erik and/or James tells Jason that the girls violated his personal belongings. The three guys go off somewhere and purposely have this discussion within earshot of Cirie. But they pretend they don't know she's there. Jason says he put a twig or something in his personal belongings and when he returned the twig was gone so he knew someone went in his bag and saw his HII. He's hopping mad and will definitely use the HII at TC. The three guys say they are on the same page and will vote the same girl (lets say Parvati for example). They say because the girls will split the votes, their three votes will boot Parvati.

Naturally Cirie tells the girls what she heard. They will all vote James. Figuring Jason will definitely play the HII, they will A) flush out the HII, and B) eliminate another male.

Right before TC, Jason give his HII to James. All James votes are void and Parvati is voted off. I realize there are some risks but so what. They have nothing to lose and I think it would have had a legitimate chance of working.

Everything has a chance of winning but you are forgetting a few details before proposing that scenario, not the least of which is James' personality. James plays with his alliance and wants to go to the end with them so that he can battle it out then. It didn't work in China and it won't work here but James won't change. He doesn't like Erik ("there's something wrong with that boy") or Jason ("You can't annoy people and appease them with a donut"). James would never align with them, no more than he wanted to align with PG. He'd rather hope to win all the ICs from now on.

Also, Amanda was with Natalie while going through Jason's stuff. Letting Cirie know he is plotting against the women who went through Jason's bag would mean that James would betray the only ally he has left.

A couple points...who do you think is James' alliance...Cirie?? How do you figure? Even so, how is he "letting" Cirie know he is plotting against the women? The whole point of this scheme is pretending that they don't know Cirie is there to listen to them. Jason and Erik would be initiating the discussion that Cirie would be listening in on anyway.

James was dead set on voting Parvati at TC. Why not jump on the chance to get two others to join him with a realistic chance to eliminate her? Funny but I never viewed James as a player that would run the table and win individual ICs. How many has he won in his career?

The main reason this plan would not work is because of the morons they casted this season which gave early Christmas presents to the weak and inept.

LAST EDITED ON 04-26-08 AT 03:02 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-26-08 AT 02:52 AM (EST)

Michel, first of all, a season of castaways like Terry and James would be boring to YOU. There are many of us who would love it.
Secondly, there is no contradiction because Amanda did not have to lie or deceive anyone. All she had to do was tell Jason he was being voted for and to use the idol. Where would the lying or the deception be in that? Would Parvati and Cirie be deceived? Hahaha... Why? Cause Amanda joined forces with someone behind their back and voted someone out they weren't expecting? Haha... Isn't that what Parvati and Cirie did last episode? So, no, I don't see any lies or deception involved.
Lastly, Amanda said she wanted to go to the end with people she could beat at challenges? Oh, you mean during the worst FTC performance of all time? Haha... I'm waiting for her to start winning all these challenges, if that is her strategy. Let's see it.
Oh, and what did you think of the editing at the beginning of this episode around Amanda? She told us her mind, but we didn't see her put any of her words into action. Why show us that if she never does? I am suddenly thinking Amanda might make it to the finals after all, and if she does, she has a real shot at winning this. The attentive edit to her all season might be for a good reason.

>

LAST EDITED ON 04-26-08 AT 08:46 PM (EST)

>Michel, first of all, a season
>of castaways like Terry and
>James would be boring to YOU.

I didn't include James. I always found him interesting. A season with 16 Terrys would be a succession of confessionals that would go:
- "We need numbers"
- "We have to keep the strong guys if we want the numbers."
- "We have to win immunity to keep the numbers"

>Oh, and what did you think
>of the editing at the
>beginning of this episode around
>Amanda? She told us her
>mind, but we didn't see
>her put any of her
>words into action. Why show
>us that if she never
>does? I am suddenly thinking
>Amanda might make it to
>the finals after all, and
>if she does, she has
>a real shot at winning
>this. The attentive edit to
>her all season might be
>for a good reason.

Here's the link to my editing post.

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/6872.shtml#115

You may want to read Veruca Salt's position. Her post is just above mine and she is more optomistic with Amanda's chances. That gives me pause. I just see it differently.

Thanks, michel, I read your editing analysis, which I always find interesting.
I can see the logic behind most your analysis on most the contestants.
I find your conclusion that Amanda's edit was meant to show she had no game as puzzling, to put it lightly.
I also think you made a sci-fi reach when suggesting that the girls conversation was meant to show Alexis as weak in the clutch. That conversation showed mainly the women in complete control of camp and Jason being caught in their web. It also served to further reveal Batalie's assertive attitude, which we had not seen before this episode.
The Parvati confessional, Parvati and James conversation, and then James confessional clearly showed a failure at "damage control" for Parvati. It did nothing positive for her. She even looked horrible thru out it. Could it be further attempts to redirect us into thinking she can't win? Perhaps, but that would then be the ONLY positive thing about it for her.
Seems to me that as insightful as most your analysis is, when it comes to the players you are pulling for, it loses its method. What for most players is- read editing then reach conclusions, becomes - reach conclusion and then read that conclusion into the editing. That is a pretty natural effect for any fan of the show. Your fanhood might be getting in the way of your analysis.

>

I'd like to point that I am not a fan of any players. If anything, at the start of the season, I was impressed by Alexis the most but her story was dismissed by the editors, not me.

My favorites would have been Cirie, Jonathan and Yau Man, if that mattered but again, I don't cheer for players, I just want to enjoy stories. Those 3 had the most interesting stories in their first stint.

I didn't have any problems seeing YM leave since he had no story this time.

Jonathan's story was directly opposite to what I was looking for a fave winning. Jonathan said: "Everybody knows that, if we continue doing what we’re doing, we should be able to win. I figured that everybody’s been out here 30, 33, 39 days, something like that." The editors showing that over confidence killed his chances because Alexis told us that she knew the faves' game. A fave winner had to improve their game.

Cirie is still in contention but you read why I think she doesn't win. Maybe she does and I'll happily have to read this story another time!

Then, you pointed to my hypothesis regarding Alexis saying she's 4th grade uncomfortable at times. I said it probably meant nothing more than showing Jason enjoying "girl talk" but why that particular moment? That conversation may have lasted for 30 minutes, an hour for all we know. The editors chose a 10 second segment. Why THAT one? Again, maybe nothing but just maybe to show Alexis could choke under pressure.

Amanda herself said "I want to believe Cirie and Parvati", "I don't know what to do". Is that having game? I didn't imagine it, the editors let us hear it. My conclusion may be wrong but it is based on what she said, not what I want.

"I am not a fan of any players."

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh, come on! Are you kidding? That's why Parvati was tops on your list all thru Cook Islands. And that's why I don't even have to see your list to know who'll be on top of each list this season either. Give me a break! I can't believe you just posted that without joking.

Wow.

>

Go Check. She wasn't except for a couple of episodes before the mutiny when I thought it could be her story. I felt Yul was too trusting and Ozzy too large. This season, I think it's her story. That's why she's so high.

I did check last night, before your response, and I enjoyed the research. There were a lot of great posts and threads that season. Of course, that was before Fiji happened and nearly sucked the life out of Survivor. You had Parvati as your #1 before the merge. Post-merge, the writing was on the wall, and you didn't have much choice but to put her below the Aitu4. You were a bigger fan of Ozzy than I remembered, maybe just because you wanted to be contrarian to Yul, but you pretty much always had Parvati right below them. I do admit I thought she was #1 on your list more often, but that is probably just because you spent so much time defending her style of play and pumping her up. If you are not a "fan" of Parvati, then you do a hell of a job impersonating one on the internet.

>

It wasn't as a fan of hers. Here's why she was high on my list:

Epi #1- With Yul, Ozzy and Sundra, she had one of the first 4 confessionals in a season Probst said "1st impression are most important."

Epi #3- The switch-up happened and she said: "It's like back to America, the melting pot. I love it." (That sounded like a winning quote to me that season)
She then aligned with Nate saying she was to draw him in her web and suck his blood. Nate followed that up by saying he hoped he wasn't a dum-dum.

Epi #4- She agreed with Nate to let JP, The "King" sit pretty. She added "All I have to do is avoid getting on JP's bad side and it should be clear sailing." She told us of JP's arrogance then the girls voted him out without Parvati getting her hands dirty.

I added it all up and I thought she had clear sailing to the end... Then the mutiny happened and the Aitu4 became the story and Jonathan's point of view became the narrating focus.

I haven't found myself able to completely cheer on a player for the past two seasons. I kind of like Eric, more for his personality, rather than game play so I think it's more of "stay so I can watch him because he's a character I would miss".

From what I thought Amanda and James were barely over their season when they bounced into this one....just like Rupert during All Stars. It kind of stinks for them that they probably didn't have as much time to process the whole situation or even talk about it. James is clearly still playing the same game and still using the same 'ol apple lines..the only exception is his "love" or "nest" affair with Parvati. Amanda kind of played the "I'm not a threat but a follower" during her season too, but it was clearly an act. This time around it seems she really is clueless.

It did seem kind of strange that Amanda, James, Jason and Eric didn't team up together and put a damper in the "all girl" alliance (the gender power thing is simply annoying to me). However, Jason, well Jason just doesn't have Survivor smarts. I wouldn't consider him a complete idiot, since he did find the HII and the site of the last one on his first try, but he is just too trusting. The other three could have felt that Jason wouldn't believe them and run off to Natalie and spoil the whole plan. Plus, Amanda is on the outside of the girls and she probably doesn't want to do anything to cast herself out further.

I don't think James, Amanda or Parvati will last. Nor do I think Cerie will. In fact, this whole girl power thing is bound to crumble...maybe Eric will be their un-doing..lol..that would be funny. The girls are far too cocky and over confident and look where thats gotten past Survivors.

I would also like to add that Natalie is my least fav. for this season. I can't stand her attitude...she's making me love Cerie more (whom seemed to have a bad attitude). Either way, these girls are bound to get there's at the F2. James and Eric have firsthand witnessed their ways and didn't seem too impressed.

Welcome aboard.

If you read Jason's interview here at RTVW, he thought the four fans would unite and Pagong the remaining faves after James was booted. His reasoning was that none of the fans can win unless all the faves are on the jury. He may be right.

But there's another factor that may be at work here which Jason didn't consider. Look at the winners list.

1. Richard Hatch
mvf m1 f0
2. Tina Wesson
mvf m1 f1
3. Ethan Zohn
mvf m2 f1
4. Vecepia Towery
fvf m2 f2
5. Brian Heiduk
mvm m3 f2
6. Jenna Morasca
mvf m3 f3
7. Sandra Diaz-Twine
fvf m3 f4
8. Amber Brkich
mvf m3 f5
9. Chris Daugherty
mvf m4 f5
10. Tom Westman
mvf m5 f5
11. Danni Boatwright
fvf m5 f6
12. Aras Baskauskas
mvf m6 f6
13. Yul Kwon
mvmvf m7 f6
14. Earl Cole
mvmvf m8 f6
15. Todd Herzog
mvfvf m9 f6

The conclusion of China wasn't known when they filmed Fans v Faves. But only one woman (Danni) has won since Amber in All-Stars. Three of the six female winners (Vecepia, Sandra, Danni) were against other women only at Final Tribal.

Aruba, I think you way over complicated it. There was no need to have Cirie overhear a conversation and to have jason give the immunity idol to James. Simply if Jason had aligned with Eric, James and Amanda he would've survived. If James would not of done this he would've been the dumbest player ever, because at this moment now that Jason is gone, James is next....unless he wins the rest of the immunity challenges he is a goner.

But James, Erik and Amanda had been the three that had broken their words to Jason the previous TC. Why would Jason believe them? Anyway, Amanda thinks she has a better chance with the girls.

LAST EDITED ON 04-28-08 AT 04:22 PM (EST)

>But James, Erik and Amanda had
>been the three that had
>broken their words to Jason
>the previous TC. Why would
>Jason believe them? Anyway, Amanda
>thinks she has a better
>chance with the girls.

Right. I see why Jason trusted Natalie more but James needed to do something because he is the next target with Jason gone. James knew Jason was being targeted and did nothing to change up the game. I blame James more than Jason.

I don't see Amanda stabbing James in the back. I also question whether she will do the same to Eric. Amanda would've rather gone with the guys if she had a choice. the choice would've been recruiting Jason to the team of Amanda/Eric/James.

No way Amanda goes with Jason, James, and Eric. She will do what she does best and ride coattails to the final and that "strategy" works best with the girls because of numbers (5 girls to 3 guys).

Now if a girl gets booted as a result of the "overcomplication" it would be much easier to attract Amanda or perhaps even Cirie.

I blame Amanda... she made that big speech "Game On" and did Nothing... Up until the vote I thought it might happen

LAST EDITED ON 04-28-08 AT 06:42 PM (EST)

well, in Amanda's defense, "Game on" doesn't necessarily equate to making an immediate bold move. Acting like she's "with" Parvati could be a much shrewder move than trying to vote her out. She must be thinking that 2 of the 3 jurors so far will not be casting their votes for Parvati.

ETF spelling

The problem with James trying to put anything together with Jason is that he goes home if Jason plays the idol and then just one person doesn't vote the way he wants them to vote. And would Jason trust any of them more than Batalie? Probably not, as michel pointed out.
This is actually working perfectly for Amanda. If James gets voted out next, then she knows she has two votes on the jury for her already. With 2 IC wins, she can win this.
However, all the posts are overlooking the fact that the HII is now back in play. James can use it if he finds it, or Amanda, or Erik. So, there is also that chance for salvation.

>

>The problem with James trying to
>put anything together with Jason
>is that he goes home
>if Jason plays the idol
>and then just one person
>doesn't vote the way he
>wants them to vote. And
>would Jason trust any of
>them more than Batalie? Probably
>not, as michel pointed out.
>
>This is actually working perfectly for
>Amanda. If James gets voted
>out next, then she knows
>she has two votes on
>the jury for her already.
>With 2 IC wins, she
>can win this.
>However, all the posts are overlooking
>the fact that the HII
>is now back in play.
>James can use it if
>he finds it, or Amanda,
>or Erik. So, there is
>also that chance for salvation.
>
>
>
>>

I don't know if this is a spoiler, but the Survivor Story on the main page kinda lends us to better understand Jason, Amanda and James thinking.