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VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 01-21-08, 11:39 AM (EST) "The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Perhaps a much better concept than one of all returning players, Survivor has once again proven that with a bit of a “tweak” the show can still remain interesting to watch. I highly anticipate this particular season and once again a looming question will be – will the returning players make the same mistakes that cost them the game the first time? Now we also can ask, will the new players capitalize on what they know to orchestrate the returning players ousting? Perhaps the biggest theme we may be looking at is even more encompassing than returning players making the same mistakes - perhaps it may be more along the lines of the veterans with something to prove over those who sit back and say “I could do this better than them.” The editing should certainly “prove” or disprove that by how the returning characters are edited. It will be interesting to see if the returning players (instead of ego clashing and intense personal feelings) are more determined to “bond” or “band” together in order to prove they are, in fact, deserving to be there. With only half the amount returning players, it is suggestive that perhaps a cohesive group will help them fare better long term instead of allowing prior mistakes or ego clashing to get in the way. Exile Island returns (although not a favorite of mine, perhaps there is some “tweaking” with this as well- I have not read anything other than that it is returning due to possibly reading something I do not want to read) we can perhaps assume that (again) the editing of those exiled may get some preferential treatment in their edit to help determine their longevity. It stands to reason that we should watch the edits of the returning players carefully. We saw many instances in All Stars that those players who really were “stars” of their seasons failed miserably in their edit which ultimately suggested how poorly they fared (Ethan and Colby quickly come to mind) while others were true to their form and were strictly edited to showcase how their fall from grace the first time occurred for the same reason (Kathy played emotionally, Rupert attempted again to overcome his insecurities, etc.) Yet others were almost punished or held in suspicious regard for what they once were (quickly to mind Jerri) even if their intention was not to play that way again. Will alliances/bonding follow some typical paths? (example: gender, race, age?) Will those who were big threats be cut down quickly? (example: Ozzy, James) Will we see alliances formed by those who were on the same season? (example: Ami, Eliza) Will the former players all agree to stay together only if to make sure the new players don’t succeed or will they nip at the bud to form relationships with those who are new to this game? Time will tell. The Returning Players Yau Man - Fiji - 55 - Finished 4th place Jeff’s first description “He’s a guy you can easily dismiss; you’re just too old. I’m pulling for Yau-Man (as a guy who is getting older). Can he win the game? Longshot.” and “Another guy who is one of my all time favorite survivors is Yau-Man who I think might be the oldest guy. He's from coincidentally Kota Kinabalu where we did the very first season in Borneo. He grew up on those islands. So he is really at home. This is a guy that knows how to open a coconut quickly, efficiently. I really do think that people are going to adore Yau-Man” Jeff’s current description "You can't do a favorites season without Yau-Man. He's sort of the Rudy of this season. He'll be the oldest guy and the most frail and probably be one of the most popular. Yau-Man's problem is going to be those things. He's so popular, everyone there knows that he's popular and well liked, and everybody knows what happened to him in Fiji. But I think Yau-Man's going to have to come out and play aggressive. I don't think he can play that same game of just chopping coconuts and being everyone's friend." Unfortunately, we know how Rudy fared when he returned to All Stars. Whether Jeff’s words are any indication remains to be seen. Yau Man’s problem is that he IS so well regarded which may be his undoing although that was a big reason why he advanced so far in Fiji. Like Fiji, Yau Man may require a strong buffer to keep him from leaving early but Jeff’s words (as compared to some other descriptions-see other favorites of Jeff such as Jonathan and Cerie and note the differences in his descriptions) have me a bit worried over Yau Man’s fate in this game. Jeff almost states that what caused Yau-Man to be so successful the first time will be his downfall this time; there is no hint that Yau-Man can capitalize on his prior success or that in order for him to succeed he needs to do..... Jeff states he CAN’T play the same game, period. James - China - 30 - Finished 7th place Jeff’s first description "He is without question the biggest guy we've had on this show. He's actually a gentle giant, a very decent guy who works extremely hard. But if you rile him up, he'll let you know what he's thinking.” Jeff’s current description “I feel like the reason James is likable is there is a sense of authenticity there that you don't see that often - he's just going to tell you what he thinks. I don't think James is that great of a Survivor player, as we saw in China. He made, without question, the single biggest blunder in the history of the show. I don't think he gets how to play, but he's so strong and he works so hard and he is so likable that it's really hard to vote him out. I think James could do really well this season." Other than Amanda, the returning players (I believe) would not have viewed James on China which may be to his advantage. Like typical seasons, a physically strong player may initially do well but also viewed as a threat in the future. A rose is a rose is a rose. However, along with strength, game savvy is important and I’m not entirely sure James has learned effectively how to play this game which may again be his mistake. Jeff indicates that James appears to be playing the same way as before but he also doesn’t compound it with a negative (with Yao Man he states: I don’t think he can play the same game.....” James may ultimately end up in the same position as China but that would not be any worse or better whereas Yao Man was very successful in finishing 4th; being eliminated a lot sooner would indicate a lot of meaning behind Jeff’s words. As far as James, Jeff sounds like he would expect James to end up similarly to China - does well but just doesn’t have that angle to do any better. Jonny Fairplay - Pearl Islands - 33 - Finished 3rd place Jeff’s Current Description "You can't do the season and not invite your most notorious person. And Fairplay delivered, I will say that. He delivered, and I think we got what we expected we would get, which is that character he created called Jonny Fairplay. What gets me is just how effective it can still be. He can call you stupid and somebody will get mad. And I'm looking at this going, 'Why are you getting mad at this guy? He's created a character, he's trying to get under your skin - and it's working!' This guy is no threat to win this game - zero." Aside from his reputation alone, it is highly doubtful that Jonny Fairplay will make friends easily. This is one person who will cling to his persona in order to garner as much attention as possible. That he also was never one to contribute greatly in challenges or daily life should not be forgotten. I will go out on an easy limb and state that he will not grace our televisions as long as he did in Pearl Island. Whatever time he is on our screen will no doubt be highlighted as Jeff’s words indicate. Ozzy - Cook Islands - 26 - Finished 2nd place Jeff’s First Description “Ozzy is another guy I actually think could win this game” Jeff’s Current Description "Ozzy's big problem's going to be the fact that he's Ozzy. Ozzy played a brilliant physical game - the only thing Ozzy lacked was the social skill of how to play Survivor. And that's probably going to be the deciding difference. If he can figure out a way to survive socially due to the kind of targets he's going to have on his back due to his physical strength, then he can do really well. Otherwise it wouldn't surprise me if Ozzy went out really early because you just don't want him around." Ozzy may actually be someone that has learned from his mistakes. While he may have had some socialization issues on his season, as time went on, he learned to bond with his Aitu Four. It certainly helps that he has two contestants from his season and while Jonathan and Ozzy had a few issues, Jonathan certainly does not appear one to hold a grudge and is smart enough to know the value of keeping Ozzy around to help win challenges. Naturally he and Pavarti should get along as we saw how they got along on their season. Therefore, we may have the start of an already “built in” alliance. Socially, I’m not sure will be Ozzy’s problem but like some other contestants, his reputation may hurt him; you don’t want Ozzy in a position to win the challenges. However, Jeff’s words indicate “if he can....” which is different than what he said about Yao Man and “I don’t think he can...” which may fare better for Ozzy (than Yao Man) but logically speaking there is no one there who is not viewing Ozzy as a huge threat when challenges becomes individual. Jonathan - Cook Islands - 45 - Finished 7th place Jeff’s First Description “Jonathan Penner is one of my favorites. Not necessarily likeable but I hope he lasts awhile. I think he'll create some good stories.” Jeff’s Current Description "Penner only plays to win. He's not interested in third. He's not interested in second. And you saw that at Cook Islands. And Penner is gold. At Tribal Council I can just look at him and know that he's ready to light somebody up. And Penner is the biggest complainer that we've had on the show. He complains about every challenge, and I get a kick out of it. I'm so happy he's on the show. And Penner could win - absolutely. He's a smart dude, and I think he probably learned a couple things in watching his season's playback." Jonathan was a delight to watch the first time and from Jeff’s description appears to delight again and as stated on his season, it is probably safe to assume that he is around long enough for his character to be so recognized by Jeff. Interesting again to note Jeff’s words with Yau Man and his words with respect to Jonathan. Jeff adored Yau Man on his season but is very hesitant in his current words about Yau Man. Jeff exudes positivity about Jonathan and as seen in the past, while Jeff does not give anything away overtly, his words and tone tend to suggest some aspects about a player’s longevity. His commentary does suggest Jonathan may do fairly well and that Jonathan “learned.” Jonathan’s biggest problem on his season had a lot to do with some personality issues and some of the “younger members.” His subsequent mistakes may never have occurred if his relationships were more sounds. With the current makeup of his tribe, he may not face this issue and prove to be more successful this time around. Again, considering that Jeff states that he probably learned a few things this time around and that he speaks quite positively, Jonathan may have the keys to success. Jonathan was never truly thought of as a “threat” so I could imagine that there are “bigger fish to fry” when individual challenges get underway. If Jonathan is a bit more subtle, it would be no surprise if he lasts toward end game. Pavarti - Cook Islands - 25 - Finished 6th place Jeff’s Current Description "To me Parvati is this season's Amber. Last time, Parvati used her flirting, and it got her a long way. But we didn't really see her do a whole lot more than that, and the question was, what if underneath that she's got a strategy? What if she's figured out how to play this game - could she last long enough to become a threat? Parvati's a question mark. She could be the same thing, come out and giggle a couple times, eat some chocolate cake, and go home. On the flip side, if Parvati's figured out how to play this game, and maybe she teams up with somebody..." Quite an interesting commentary by Jeff since we know that Amber did indeed win All Stars. Pavarti may yet be another prior player who has learned from her mistakes and not rely solely on flirtation as a method to further herself. Considering the tribe makeup, she may utilize some of her methods on the likes of James and Ozzy but we can’t discount that Pavarti is indeed in good physical shape as well. It is perhaps telling to note Jeff did not finish his statement at the end which may indicate that she does indeed “team up” with somebody which may prove successful. I am of the mindset for now that flirtation is part of Pavarti’s makeup so I am a bit suspect that this method of game play is not in evidence; this may be as natural to Pavarti as breathing but she may have learned to implement other angles as well. His description sounds a bit promising for her. Ami Cusack - Vanuatu - 34 - Finished 6th place Jeff’s First Description “I think Ami is a person that if she stays in the game long enough, people are really going to like her. I think she's a genuinely cool person and her soul seems to just come out of her and I think people are going to see that. She's very comfortable in her own skin... very comfortable in her body. She's got an adorable smile and some interesting life experiences that I think may give her a bit of an advantage in the game.” Jeff’s Current Description “Ami will betray you; she'll do whatever it takes to get deeper in the game. But she's sexy, and she's got this 'Everything's beautiful in the world until I stab you in the back' thing. And that's what we want on this show. And if Ami has her way, I guarantee you there will be a women's alliance, because that is what Ami wanted in Vanuatu and that's what's she's going to try to make happen here." Jeff certainly emotes in his description of Ami. While not necessarily a means to the end, it appears that Ami is going to play as hard as she did in Vanuatu. The question remains, will Ami’s prior mistakes catch up to her as Jeff does elude to the fact that Ami will attempt to create another female contingent. However, Ami was so focused on creating a female alliance that her adaptability fell by the wayside. It is suggestive that she and Eliza will connect again due to their prior relationships and with Cirie, Amanda and Pavarti also there, we may see a hint of Ami’s wish immediately. I don’t foresee any immediate pressing issues for Ami but I am concerned she may strive too hard to fulfill her original quest and overlook the bigger picture Cirie - Panama - 37 - Finished 4th place Jeff’s First Description "Cirie represents everybody who's ever sat at home and said, "I could do that." But they never got up off the couch. Cirie got up off the couch and she's on this show. I think her little bubbly-ness is probably a bit of a mask for a player underneath who might be better than we think." Jeff’s Current Description: "Cirie represents the kind of people I love to see on the show. You look at Cirie and you think, 'How are you going to survive? You don't have the tools, you don't come from this background, you're not physically fit enough.' But there's more to this game than that. My hunch is Cirie played a very good game the first time, and I expect her to play an even better game the second time." Another favorite of Jeff’s, his description sounds reasonably favorable. At the very least, note the difference in his discussion on Cirie opposed to Yau Man. Jeff states his popularity may cause him a problem yet Cirie was also very popular but Jeff’s description sounds a bit more positive for her longevity. Cirie has to rely on her social game as she is not proficient in the harder challenges but she managed to ingratiate herself with some very difficult personalities on her season and she may be capable of doing that again. Jeff certainly seems to indicate this so at this time there does not appear to be anything that indicates an early boot. Amanda - China - 23 - Finished 3rd place Jeff’s First Description "Amanda probably is the most physically fit woman this season, very strong and confident. She's been outdoors a lot and she's not afraid of sticks or stones. Plus, she really knows the show — she's watched every episode — and after 15 seasons, that's an advantage." Jeff’s Current Description "Amanda knows how to play Survivor. She knows how to build an alliance, how long to keep it, when to get rid of it. She's very good at looking at odds, she's very good at assessing if better off against this person, or with this person. And you need that. Survivor only thrives when you have people who will continue to turn and switch and make moves. Amanda's in great shape, she does well in the challenges, she's beautiful, and she knows how to play." Coming fresh off from China, Amanda (like James) may have the advantage or disadvantage of her tribe mates knowing her. She also has the advantage of knowing how her tribe mates played this game in the past. Amanda was quite successful on China in her adaptability which Jeff hones in on with his commentary and this may be helpful to her. She may be viewed as an “outsider” in this former Survivor contingent and her only bond is with James. Both her and James could be valuable in this regard. I have no reason to believe right now that Amanda may not do rather well despite her coming straight off from China. It would have been very easy for Jeff to reference mistakes Amanda made in her China game but does not do so. Amanda may find herself just as successful this season as in China or moreseo; perhaps she even ups the ante a bit. Eliza - Vanuatu - 25 - Finished 4th place Jeff’s First Description “Eliza could emerge as a villain on this show, in the sense that she's very lippy. And she will say what's on her mind and she will get into little cat fights. She's adorable but her mouth could get her into trouble. That's going to be her big test. I think she may see that as an asset, lipping off. But in this game I'm not sure it is, I think less is more in the case of Eliza.” Jeff’s Current Description "Eliza is one of the most enjoyable people to have on the show because she gets it. Everybody knows Eliza will betray you at the drop of a hat, and Eliza knows you know that. Eliza is a Favorite because she can be so charmingly annoying. It's fun to watch Eliza get mad, and it's fun to watch people get mad at her, and she doesn't take it personally. That's the most beautiful part about her; she knows it's only a game: 'I have a life, I have a boyfriend, I'm going to be an attorney, I have a dog, that's my life - this is only a game. Of course, I'm going to try to cut your throat. I've got knives coming out of every part of my body." Jeff’s description does appear to sound that Eliza is certainly there long enough to have some kind of impact. It also does appear that Eliza’s prior persona is still in evidence which although helped her more than hurt her in her season, may not work so well with her current demographics. My one issue is that Jeff is indicating that Eliza may not really be playing all that hard to win; this is “only a game.” It does not sound like Eliza goes anywhere very soon due to some of Jeff’s words and tone and we know she may already have a safety net with Ami and her “non threatening” status which helps but there is also nothing from Jeff to indicate that Eliza is playing to win this which may indicate that she falls short. Unlike an entire All Star cast, these returning players may actually fare quite well should their goal be unified with “Let’s show these new people who REALLY knows how to play this game!” With an equal number to new players, they may automatically realize that being automatic targets, the goal should be to outlast the new people first then work on being the victor. With this group, it is entirely possible. Grant it, they have to get there first with intact numbers but with powerhouse challenge players such as James and Ozzy along with strong physical female players like Ami, Amanda, Eliza and Pavarti, the returning player tribe may give the new players a big fight on their hands. Like any group, success may rely on a matter of alliances and trust and a common goal. Most of these players *know* each other and as stated a looming question is whether their pasts will come back to haunt them or have they learned from their mistakes. Better yet, will this group decide that they won’t allow some “new kids” to come in and show them up. The New Kids On The Block The new players may have their hands full should the “favorites” decide that as a group en masse, they need to stick together just to show that veterans of the game know how to really play the game. Again, I believe this balance will prove to be more palatable to watch than the All Star season as personal feelings seemed to take over the game itself. Joel Anderson - 32 - Firefighter ''Bottom line, I'm here for my family. If I just wanted to go on vacation and hang out on the beach, I'd take my family with me.'' Jeff’s Description "Joel is the one guy who might be able to give James a run for his money, because he is every bit as big as James. He's a fireman, he's a father and a husband, and when I met with him the thing that really struck me is how he does everything for his wife and his family. And I like that about him. He's a big, big guy, and these challenges start off physical right from the get-go. Sometimes being a physical threat works against you early; I think in Joel's case it's going to be advantageous." Typically speaking, strong, physical people are usually safe until merger time unless they have a personality problem, lazy, etc. Suffice it to say, Joel appears to be a rather pleasant individual with no immediate concerns especially if the fans have trouble winning the challenges. Come merger time is when Joel may have some problems and his storyline/edit may help reflect if there is any longevity. He is definitely someone who the “favorites” may try to get rid of as a potential threat for individual immunity and accordingly we may see a strong story initially to compensate for a boot around merger when individual threats are taken care of. Natalie Bolton - 32 - Personal Trainer/Bartender “I need to be fearless again. I want to unearth all those things when I was 8 and didn't give a s--- about what people thought, and I did it anyway." Jeff’s Description “I'm on the fence with Natalie because I can't figure out if she has any business being in this game or not. On paper she sounds great - she's a personal trainer and she's young and she's attractive - but when I watched the first few moments on the show, I'm not sure her attitude is going to be able to survive. You have to have a sense of humor or you're going to be a miserable person if you can't laugh about being hungry at some point. I'm not sure Natalie's had to go through anything as difficult as what she's about to go through." We have seen people with “attitudes” do quite well in this game if only because others want to KEEP them there as a potential final two (or three) foil as discussed in the past. I would suggest that regardless how Natalie fares, she may be a character highlighted for maximum effect which may cause her editing to be misleading. Her longevity may also depend on how her “attitude” is edited. Will we get reinforcement by other cast mates or only one? Will her actions be heavily edited to validate what others may be saying about her? Will the audience like her even if her tribe mates do not? This should tell the tale. Michael Bortone - 34 - Writer/Actor "I'm good at reading people. You got to be everybody's best friend." Jeff’s Description "I like Mikey B. a lot. He's Boston, and Boston is so damn good to Survivor. He's got a colorful way of saying the most mundane thing, and that makes him somebody I will love to go to at Tribal Council." Michael appears to be someone that regardless of placement may also be highlighted based upon his character and could be a distraction in that regard. Again, typically speaking, strong males tend to do rather well pre-merge by nature of the goal - to win challenges and avoid Tribal Council. Considering the makeup of the men on this tribe, Michael may be needed but once individual wins come to play, he may be (like others) an immediate target. While Michael may be a personality that could potentially overstep verbal bounds also, Jeff doesn’t seem to indicate at this time that he is in too much trouble. Tracy Hughes-Wolf - 43-Commercial Builder “I'm a thrill seeker. I want to push myself to that point where I know I can do it." Jeff’s Description "Tracy should be very valuable because of her background, because she's a woman who works in construction. I don't know how much she wants to share about what she does, because there's a part of her that thinks if she comes on too strong could be seen as a threat. But on paper, this is something you rarely get: somebody who knows how to build. Boston Rob knew how to build things and that made him hugely valuable. I think Tracy could be the same way." Tracy may opt to take a middle of the road approach but contribute which may serve her well although many people think they will go into this game one way but are not able to shed their real personality. As we know, a strong female is quite often a detriment from the get go as opposed to a strong male which I have always been both amused and repelled by but such is human nature. At this point, a lot may depend on whether challenges are being lost or not and how she bonds with the other women on her tribe. Jeff does not come right out and state that her personality is a problem; only that IF she comes on too strong it could be one. Her standing may actually be determined on how the male ego on her tribe receives her depending on how she comes across. Alexis Jones - 24 - Motivational Speaker “People will see the Southern belle in me. But I'm fiercely competitive - despite my dimples.” Jeff’s Description “When she came in she was so excited. And I launched into this speech about how you need to drop the excitement and get your head in the game because these other people out here, they're already playing, they're already playing you, and they're already seeing you're this little simple girl from Texas that they're going to run right over. And she looks at me and says, 'I've read every person here.' And she had a pretty good read on everybody. I thought, This is all I need to know. This girl knows how to play. As a fan, I picked this girl to win.” Suffice it to say although Jeff’s commentary may ultimately mean nothing in the long run; Jeff does have his finger on the pulse quite consistently on who is long for this game. Should Alexis prove to be competitive and helpful without crossing that invisible line that tends to get some women in trouble, she may do quite well as Jeff indicates. Her enthusiasm may be quite infectious - she may ultimately end up being a player that the audience truly likes and as we know, Survivor does attempt to fill “slots” (i.e. villain, sweetheart, underdog, etc.) and she may be utilized as our “sweetheart” Erik Reichenbach - 22 - Ice cream scooper "I want to do this for myself, to grow up more. I haven't experienced a lot of life. I haven't experienced a lot of stress." Jeff’s Description "Erik loves the show more than anyone I have ever met. He remembers things that I did that I don't remember. He's a young kid, and that young exciting energy is what's going to keep him in this game and could easily be what gets him knocked out, because he doesn't have the maturity of life to know when he's being played. That's what he's going to have to watch out for. Because you could see people looking at him on Day One and going, 'Who is the kid in the green shoes, for crying out loud?" Erik may ultimately go on a journey of self discovery and maturity this season; a lot will depend upon what we hear from him in the first or second episode as “journey characters” tend to tell us what their issue is and what they want to achieve if he makes it that long. It stands to reason that some mention probably is made on the first episode about him since Jeff does seem to indicate this and a lot will depend on how that is edited. While Jeff’s commentary may indicate nothing, I am curious with respect to Jeff mentioning about "being played" and I question whether there is some situation that reflects that which results in his untimely departure. Mary Sartain - 29 - Real estate entrepreneur "This is closer to $1 million than I've ever been. I'm definitely in it for the money. I'm largely money-driven." Jeff’s Description "I think Mary coming into the game is going to be on the bubble. She's either going to learn where to fit in this group quickly or she's going to be on the outs for the whole time. Mary's best play is to hide in the middle, not become a nuisance, just hang out and see if you can hang out long enough that your vote becomes valuable." Mary’s goal is the correct attitude, one should be playing to win. Jeff’s description sounds like she may encounter some problems but again, we have often seen “difficult” people get a lot further than anticipated. Jeff is solely giving us an either/or analysis which tends to strike me as she is either not there long or she is there for a good duration. The question remains in the first episode if much of her “outs” is displayed and whether validated by people and met by agreement in the viewing. I do find it very interesting that most of the "fan" women players are described by Jeff in a very similar manner thus far except Alexis. All of the women thus far mentioned have been described in such a way that we may see some problems with the women; perhaps moreso than the men. Jason Siska - 22 - Student Teacher “I'm not evil or devious. But I can be. If it comes down to lying, I have no problem." Jeff’s Description "Jason loves to compare himself to Ozzy . He thinks Ozzy is the greatest player to ever participate in Survivor - I think he's kind of got a man-crush on him. He's coming on strong in the beginning saying, 'I'm going to go toe-to-toe with Ozzy. I can climb coconut trees just like he can, I can swim just like he can, and I'm just as athletic as he is.' My response to that is, it's one thing to say it and another thing to do it. So he can talk the talk, but the big question is, can he walk the walk?" I am sure that Ozzy (as most humans) would be very flattered knowing someone is his fan although if he is as dangerous as Ozzy was, Jason would be someone that the “favorites” are not going to take a chance with and keep around for individual immunities. I do not see any pressing issues that he will leave immediately but depending upon the numerical structure of the favorites over the fans, there may be quite a few favorites who won’t want someone physically capable there any longer than they have to be. However, at this juncture, he does not appear to have any immediate problems. Kathleen Sleckman - 45 - Golf course vendor "I'm tending to look for misfits, people who are psychologically or emotionally damaged, like myself." Jeff’s Description "We almost put Kathy on Vanuatu and we didn't. It's one thing to have a positive attitude, it's another to survive 39 days eating some rice, clams, and an occasional fish. I think Kathy's going to be tested enormously, and the longer she lasts, the tougher it's going to be unless she can embrace it. It's not an easy season out there. It rained almost every night we were there, and if you get sent to Exile, it can be brutal." Whether Jeff’s mention of Exile Island in conjunction with Kathleen indicates that she may visit there won’t be answered until the show but it is curious he mentions her and EI but does not with anyone else. Sadly, one must always assume that the eldest female may not fare well solely because these instances occur quite a lot on this show even if they may be in decent shape (unless they are able to take on subtle motherly role which is not easy to do.) Frankly, Kathleen’s description of what she is looking for does not seem to bode well for her (this is coming from herself!) and she may come off as a bit overbearing. Her statement that she is a misfit along with Jeff deeming that this show may test Kathy enormously sounds detrimental to her standings. Players do not have time or inclination to concede to people who march to the tune of their own drummer and she may suffer for it Chet Welch - 48 - Beauty Pageant Coach “I play outside the box. I know how to stand out, and I know what I need to do." Jeff’s Description "Chet works in the pageant world. He produces winners and he will do whatever it takes to get his pageant girl to win. If he plays this game the way he plays in the pageant world, then he is definitely a force to be reckoned with. If he doesn't, he could be going home soon. He has sort of been playing a version of Survivor for the past 20 years in the pageant world, and he gets this game." Alas, the pageant world and Survivor may have similar qualities but they are not the same. While Chet may be able to shape a winner does not necessarily indicate he, himself can be the winner. An old saying: “Those who can’t do, teach” may end up being appropriate in this situation. Again, like the eldest female, the eldest male is in a precarious situation unless they provide something that is needed by others (i.e. father figure, knowledge, etc.) but again, this is a fine line as a lot depends on how that male broadcasts himself. He may get along well with some of the women but “coaches” in competitive businesses/worlds can tend to be too abrasive. I’m not entirely fond of Chet’s longevity but I can see him highlighted for as long as he is there. Note that Jeff states he could be a force but if not, he could be going home soon. These types of statements usually indicate to me a very short lived stay or a fair amount of longevity. I honestly have issue with Chet lasting however. I think this particular endeavor may actually prove to be quite successful. The earlier All Stars on paper appeared to be a good idea but there appeared to be the old “too many chefs spoil the soup” outcome. With the balance of new vs. old, we may avoid this scenario and focus will be more on playing the game and either proving that a seasoned player can prove that the “second” time is the charm or to look out because there is a new kid in town. The first episode normally helps to outline the theme of the seasons (or themes) and as we know, we probably will be able to determine the type of player each contestant will be which also can indicate a fair amount of longevity. Emotional players tend not to be at end game whereas clinical and head of household fare rather well. Under the radar players (if you will recall, “my” version of UTR is not the typically described) also may do quite well but a lot depends on other players involved as opposed to their own game. In any event, another season is just around the corner. Again, while it was readily apparent that information was quite prevalent last season (unless the lack of participation is based on the thread itself which is quite depressing ) I do so enjoy people’s thoughts on the editing itself and how the characters make them feel, what people get out of the episode. Quite often, that helps me get another view as the show is edited to elicit certain feelings, emotions and thoughts which may help tell the tale of the outcome. If anyone also has information on any game situations that may reflect on the editing style (i.e. Exile Island, hidden idols, final three or final two, etc.) I would love to hear about this as the editing does change based upon certain criteria of how the game is being played.   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... byoffer 01-21-08 1    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... PepeLePew13 01-21-08 2  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... michel 01-21-08 3  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 01-21-08 4  stoopid question smokedog 01-22-08 5  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 01-22-08 6    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... VerucaSalt 01-23-08 7  Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: michel 02-10-08 8    RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: girlinglasses 02-10-08 9    RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: Flowerpower 02-11-08 10    RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: PepeLePew13 02-11-08 11        RE: Episode 1 Editing VerucaSalt 02-11-08 12            RE: Episode 1 Editing suzzee 02-12-08 13  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... mimo 02-12-08 14    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... VerucaSalt 02-13-08 15        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 02-13-08 16        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... michel 02-13-08 17        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Mocha 02-14-08 18            RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... b1whois 02-15-08 19                RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... renila 02-16-08 20  Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: michel 02-16-08 21    RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: Flowerpower 02-17-08 22        RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: Mocha 02-17-08 23            RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: dabeat 02-17-08 24                RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love VerucaSalt 02-18-08 25                    RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love Mocha 02-20-08 26                        RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love b1whois 02-20-08 27                            RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love Flowerpower 02-20-08 28                                RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... b1whois 02-21-08 29                                    RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... b1whois 02-21-08 30                                        RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... CTgirl 02-21-08 31                                            RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... Mocha 02-21-08 33    RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: Outfrontgirl 02-21-08 32        Episode #3 Editing Impression: citywitch 02-22-08 34            RE: Episode #3 Editing Impression: Mocha 02-22-08 35                RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts VerucaSalt 02-23-08 36                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-23-08 37                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-23-08 38                            RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-23-08 39                                RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-23-08 40                                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Stevil907 02-24-08 41                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-24-08 42                                            RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Slider 02-24-08 43                                                RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-24-08 44                                                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts VerucaSalt 02-25-08 45                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Misty365 02-25-08 46                                                            RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Erika221 02-25-08 49                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Mocha 02-25-08 47                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-25-08 50                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-25-08 51                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Outfrontgirl 02-28-08 55                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts mysticjay 03-04-08 63                                                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Erika221 02-25-08 48                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Modesty 02-26-08 52                RE: Episode #3 Editing Impression: Mocha 02-28-08 56  Survivor Women CTgirl 02-27-08 53  Credits AngelSg86 02-27-08 54    RE: Episode Four Editing VerucaSalt 03-01-08 57        RE: Episode Four Editing Mocha 03-01-08 58            RE: Episode Four Editing michel 03-01-08 59                RE: Episode Four Editing Flowerpower 03-02-08 60                    RE: Episode Four Editing citywitch 03-02-08 61  Question about the Ozzy edit easilydistracted 03-02-08 62  Episode 5 Mocha 03-07-08 64    RE: Episode 5 electropoprebel 03-07-08 67        RE: Episode 5 television 03-07-08 68            RE: Episode 5 electropoprebel 03-07-08 69    RE: Episode 5 PepeLePew13 03-07-08 70        Alexis and Natalie PepeLePew13 03-08-08 71    RE: Episode 5 Erika221 03-09-08 76  Post Episode 5 Commentary Flowerpower 03-08-08 72    RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary michel 03-08-08 73        RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary Flowerpower 03-08-08 74            RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary michel 03-08-08 75            RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary VerucaSalt 03-12-08 81                RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary b1whois 03-12-08 82    RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary Erika221 03-09-08 77        RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary MattyMax 03-10-08 78            RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary Erika221 03-10-08 79  RE: Themes Mocha 03-11-08 80    RE: Themes Mocha 04-01-08 95  Thoughts on Episode #6 michel 03-15-08 83    RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 ohmyheck 03-16-08 84    RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 Flowerpower 03-16-08 85        RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 VerucaSalt 03-17-08 86            RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 VerucaSalt 03-21-08 87                RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 Georgianna 03-21-08 88                RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 PepeLePew13 03-21-08 89                RE: Thoughts on Episode #7 michel 03-21-08 90                    RE: Episode 7 VerucaSalt 03-23-08 91                        RE: Episode 7 michel 03-23-08 92                            RE: Episode 7 Loree 03-23-08 93                                RE: Episode 7 Flowerpower 04-02-08 96                                    RE: Episode 7 Georgianna 04-02-08 97                            RE: Episode 7 PepeLePew13 03-24-08 94  Episode #8: Editing Thoughts michel 04-05-08 98    RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts Georgianna 04-06-08 99        RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts michel 04-06-08 100            RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts citywitch 04-06-08 101            RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts Georgianna 04-07-08 102  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Erika221 04-11-08 103    Episode #9: The Players, The Game, ... michel 04-12-08 104        RE: Episode #9: The Players, The Ga... CTgirl 04-13-08 105            Episode 9 Thoughts VerucaSalt 04-14-08 106  RE: Episode 10 - "best blindside ev... Mocha 04-18-08 107    RE: Episode 10 - "best blindside ev... Slider 04-18-08 108        Episode 10 - Editing Thoughts michel 04-19-08 109            Episode 10 - Editing VerucaSalt 04-19-08 110                RE: Episode 10 - Editing suzzee 04-20-08 111                    RE: Episode 10 - Editing PepeLePew13 04-20-08 112                        RE: Episode 11 - Editing VerucaSalt 04-26-08 113                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing blueahh 04-26-08 114                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing michel 04-26-08 115                                RE: Episode 11 - Editing suzzee 04-27-08 119                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing Flowerpower 04-26-08 116                                RE: Episode 11 - Editing Runnr3003 04-27-08 117                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing suzzee 04-27-08 118                                RE: Episode 12 - Editing VerucaSalt 05-03-08 120                                    RE: Episode 12 - Editing KLicK 05-03-08 121                                    RE: Episode 12 - Editing michel 05-03-08 122                                    RE: Episode 12 - Editing television 05-06-08 123                                        RE: Episode 12 - Editing Slider 05-08-08 124                                            RE: Episode 12 - Editing michel 05-08-08 125  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... suzzee 05-08-08 126  RE: Episode 13 editing Mocha 05-09-08 127    RE: Episode 13 editing michel 05-09-08 128        RE: Episode 13 editing beka 05-10-08 130    RE: Episode 13 editing architecturegirl 05-10-08 129        RE: Episode 13 editing rose1974 05-10-08 131            Editing VerucaSalt 05-11-08 132                RE: Editing michel 05-11-08 133                    RE: Editing architecturegirl 05-11-08 134                        RE: Editing michel 05-11-08 135                            RE: Editing architecturegirl 05-11-08 137                            RE: Editing Flowerpower 05-11-08 138                RE: Editing citywitch 05-11-08 136

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byoffer 10784 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-21-08, 01:02 PM (EST) 1. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Great analysis, VS! There is a lot to go on, especially for the Favs. I think this season will have some team bonding in the alliances (ie Favs, Fans). The winner will likely be someone who can balance between defending his/her team, and defending his/her self. James is the sort of guy that will likely lose because of this. As we saw last season, he thinks team first, and self second. Will he be able to change this?? Just wondering, does Parvati Pavarti rhyme with havarti?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-21-08, 03:21 PM (EST) 2. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" I think it rhymes with Perv-at-it! Welcome back, VS! I look forward to your analysis (and other people's) after the first episode - this is a new thing where we have experienced people playing against newbies so many of the old rules or stereotypes could end up being thrown out of the window. It would be dangerous to expect many of the same type of reads into everyone - I like the fact that you included the Favourites' first description from Jiffy and the second ones as a comparison. Looking forward to the whole season and analyzing it, really.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 01-21-08, 03:42 PM (EST) 3. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Hello Veruca. I’m happy to see you in such fine analytical form! I always say that a season starts when you make your initial comments. I’ll add a few of mine. This season gives us an interesting premise. I’ll be looking at the favorites and asking myself if they are edited in a better light, a worse one or about the same as in their previous season. We all remember how BJ’s edit didn’t change from Palau to Guatemala. He was always the hard working, loyal player and his outcome was practically the same: From 10th to 9th place although he had a chance to fulfill his dream (!) of making the jury. On the other hand, Stephenie’s change from Palau’s "Sweetheart" edit to the Mean Mayan Queen indicated her outcome as the final 2 foil. So, what about this new batch of “Favorites”? - Yau Man was edited as a “Player on a Journey”, out to prove how valuable he could be. He was even a theme unto himself: “Do Not Underestimate Yau Man.” Many mocked him, only Earl saw the value of Yau. He had a lot of airtime from the very first episode so we should be able to see very early if his edit measures up to his previous long term status. Jeff’s words aren’t promising. - James had a “Hero” edit in China. A fan favorite who tried his best but who didn’t quite have a grasp of the game and met a “tragic” end. He was also quite featured in China’s opening episode with his “I want to make them love me” comment and being dubbed “Superman” by Leslie. I doubt he can make it further this time around.(You are right, Veruca, in thinking that the other players won’t know about James’ outcome in China. Filming started in October so the China merge hadn’t happened yet.) - Johnny Fairplay was the “Villain” in his season. Since it was his intent to be that villain, I don’t see any redemption edit. Much the same showing should mean an early exit this time and Jeff’s comment on how effective he is at riling up his opponents doesn’t mean he is effective in outlasting them. - Ozzy had a huge story in the Cook Islands. He had a “Hero” edit playing as King Neptune. From the start, we heard how good he was at this game and it was soon followed by worries about keeping him. How will his edit change if he doesn’t make it as far? Maybe we hear comments that he isn’t that great or maybe we don’t hear any worries about the danger he represents until they decide to vote him off. Since he was a big fan favorite, lack of airtime would be a terrible sign for him. How would his edit change if he were to win? We’d see him making a key strategic alliance from the start and he’d be telling us about the importance of playing a good social game. I don’t hold too much hope for his chances. - Jonathan was the forced “Villain” in the Cook Islands. We heard a lot more about his bad character than we saw before the merge. The thing with CI was that it was edited as if seen from Jonathan’s perspective. In addition, Jonathan didn’t really know how to play the game the first time around. His edit has a lot of room for improvement but it may be hard to tell if it’s because he is a long term player or if it’s because he’s learned a thing or two but not enough to win. If he has a confessional about not playing too hard this time, it would be a great sign. - Parvati was edited first as the “Femme Fatale” only to become the “Lazy Player” once Jonathan turned his attention on her after the mutiny. Hearing Jeff compare her to Amber is certainly something to remember. Being a minor favorite, one who shouldn’t warrant much airtime at the start if she were to leave early, I’d say we should watch for a display of strategy on her part or for positive comments from others. If so, Parvati will be a long term player. - Ami was the “Villain” in Vanuatu. We could have a change of edit just because the editors want to repay the “debt” they have towards her. For one thing, I expect to hear something like “Ami isn’t a bad person” but it wouldn’t mean much if it isn’t backed up by seeing her make good decisions. Jeff’s comments sound promising. - Cirie was edited as being “On a Journey” to make her family proud, to show she can do it. Now that we know just how good she can be at this game, how would she be portrayed if she were to make it far again? For one thing, she was Mama Cirie in Casaya according to post game interviews but we didn’t see much of that. She’s the one who kept the camp organized but since Casaya was to be considered a disorganized tribe, we didn’t see that role. If we see it now, it would be a good sign. On the other hand, if we hear some complain that they don’t need a mother, it would be a bad sign. I wonder if she can steal narration duties from Jonathan. How that role is handled will be something to consider. - Amanda was a “Player on a Journey” to prove she could compete in this game. Her first China confessional was about Fei Long’s strength. She had a memorable moment when she scored a point during a challenge even if her Mom was gonna kill her for losing her top. In addition, we heard her alliance choices were made so that she could win challenges at the end. In effect, as soon as she won her first individual challenge, her game started going downhill. She didn’t play the mental game as well as Todd. Now Jeff tells us “Amanda knows how to play Survivor” which should go without saying. Why stress it for her? Does she demonstrate just how well she has learned to handle the mental game? I like her chances. - Eliza was also a “Player on a Journey”. For her, it was a story of perseverance, of outlasting all the threats around her. As with Yau, Eliza also became a minor theme of her season: “You Target Eliza, You Go Home.” Dolly, Rory, Sarge, Chad, Leann and Ami all considered eliminating her at one point but Twila and Chris decided to use her instead. The rest, as they say…!! I’m really curious to see how she will be portrayed this time. She could be this season’s Courtney Yates but if so, I don’t expect she’d last long. Since James isn’t a “Bitter Betty”, Eliza is the player that has the biggest target for revenge on her back. Will Ami include her in her desired women’s alliance or will she want to see her gone? For some reason, I think the women Favorites are more impressive. Having lost 6 of the last 7 editions, Ami has a great argument to make for the women to stick together. Jonathan has betrayed a male ally to follow a woman before! For the new players, it will be an uphill battle to get airtime! Even with only 2 returning players, many early boots had very little airtime in Guatemala. Jim, Morgan and Briana were practically ignored. Brooke had only a few confessionals. Margaret had a great first episode but then wasn’t much of a factor until her “Victim” edit was used after the twist to show “Judd the Bully” and the birth of the “Axis of Evil”. Airtime should be a good indicator to spot the long term players among our newcomers. One has to remember however that their role could be hidden. Although having some presence early on, Rafe wasn't seen as a mastermind until very late. At the start, I want to see their reactions to the twists of the season. Before speaking to others, each must have thought they were the most knowledgeable player present. When they discovered that they were 10 fans, it had to be already a bad surprise. What do you think was their reaction when they realized that they really knew nothing compared to the favorites? Whoever has the most positive initial confessional about that twist should be one to watch. Immediately, Jamie was doomed when we saw his negative reaction at seeing Steph on his team. On the other hand, a positive confessional about BJ was our introduction to Danni. For now, I note how the men seem to have been chosen to parallel some of the Favorites. Joel vs James for strength battles, the authors Micheal vs Jonathan for the narrator’s role, Jason vs Ozzy for the challenge prowess. The fans seem like pale imitations especially if Erik was picked because he has a bit of Fairplay in him! Will Chet be as valuable an ally as Yau was. Remember Chet “Produces Winners”. Will his ally win? And who will she be? If the Female Favorites give me the impression that they will be a force to reckon with, I don’t expect their fan counterparts to do the same. - Natalie looks like an early boot to me. This, from Jeff, sounds like the kiss of death: “I can't figure out if she has any business being in this game or not…I'm not sure her attitude is going to be able to survive.” - If Natalie isn’t the first fan booted, then surely Kathleen will be. How long does it take to become as miserable as Jeff tells us she will? Sherea was miserable on day 1. - Mary’s description isn’t much better even if she looks more like she could be Chet’s protégée. - Tracy is rather non-descript. Her, seen as a threat? Sounds more like Jeff is already giving us the excuse for her elimination. - For now, I am keeping my eyes on Alexis. She would also be a natural ally for Chet and she looks likeable and to be in good shape for challenges. From the Fans, this is the one I would make my pre-season pick. Can she cross-over and join a women’s alliance on the other side?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-21-08, 03:56 PM (EST) 4. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" LAST EDITED ON 01-21-08 AT 04:10 PM (EST) Great thoughts there, VS, and great to see you! You have provided excellent thoughts on all of the players and I really am looking forward to this season. All of this work is immensely appreciated! I, too, think that it's a great spin on an "All Star" season, Favs vs. Fans. Additionally, the Favs have seen what happened on the last "All Star" Season and I imagine, or would hope that it would help with their game strategy, so-to-speak. It also appears as if they have tried to match the Fans tribe with the Favs tribe more evenly. AT first I was thinking, whoa, with Ozzy and James together, how could anyone else compete....then I got a look at Joel and Jason, and I think Erik may as well be a strong competitor...these three strong guys may give the Fans a bit of an edge, but, the Fans girls are not as impressive to me as the Favs ladies. Will be fun to watch...my money is still on Ozzy though. There is a new promo out that states an initial assessment or statement regarding their plan from each of the daws. It's running on TV now, I would like to post it(the voiceover) here for you to see as well, gives us a little insight as to how the show may perhaps edit them coming in...what do you think? Let me know and I will do it! It fits in nicely with Jeff's assessments, especially the comments that he makes 'if they can change or learn then maybe...'. Let me know, and I will bring it over. Thanks for everything that you do, remember, I may not alwyas post in here, but I always savor it. You are just so good at all of this stuff, alot of us are amazed! Looking FORWARD to it all! ETA: When I updated the post, I saw that Michel had commented as well. WAVES to MICHEL!!! I loved what you added - definately I feel the same about the Ladies on the fans tribe, not real impressive so far. But regarding your statement about Natalie, - Natalie looks like an early boot to me. This, from Jeff, sounds like the kiss of death: “I can't figure out if she has any business being in this game or not…I'm not sure her attitude is going to be able to survive.” I just wanted to remind you that Jeff said something very similiar regarding Lydia, and she made it to the final 4! You never know! fp   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

smokedog 1780 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-22-08, 02:15 AM (EST) 5. "stoopid question" Jeff's comments: He said them before Micronesia started or he's saying them with the benefit of hindsight after filming?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-22-08, 08:46 AM (EST) 6. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Thought I would post the voiceover here from the latest promo. It gives clips from dialogue with the DAWs, but clearly it is just what the editors choose to show us regarding their pre-game thoughts... Here is my take on this: 1. Amanda: They don't choose to give us any of her pre-game, she's just honored to be there...doesn't sound like she is too serious or intent on winning the money....or is it just a red herring? This is a contrast in what Jeff had to say about her...are they editing her differently? 2. Ami: She is going to be quieter, not so outfront? She is amending her game play, but according to Jeff, she is still going to go for the women's alliance...to me, this doesn't really mesh, she is telling us that she will change her approach but Jeff infers that she is still going after the same strategy... 3. Cirie just comments on her effect on others to get off the couch....sounds like the same stuff to me. Jeff expects alot out of her, but her edit sounds similiar in the very beginning... 4. Eliza: The perfect combination of everything...sounds very confident...Jeff comments on how she gets it and how she's fun to watch...doesn't sound promising for longevity to me. 5. James: He's commenting on the others there, they are great strategists and it will be tough...sounds as though he's intimidated almost...and then Jeff comments that he doesn't think James gets it...sounds like a very similiar experience to his first show...he won't win or last to end game, imo. He didn't learn from the first go round perhaps? 6. Jonathan: Notes no one is trustworthy there... Not too profound of a statement, will they edit him as a villain again? Maybe, if his edit doesn't change will he last to the end? This is what michel has noted from the previous all stars and BJ and Steph...Jeff seems to think he has learned from the first go round, and he notes that he plays to win, could be an end game player perhaps? 7. JFP: No regrets with lying, does he have more tricks up his sleeve, absolutely. He even wears a hat, "Will lie for food". Same JFP, same edit, Jeff notes he has no chance to end game, I'm in agreement... 8. Ozzy: Going to be WAY more personable and make connections with everyone...he is stating pretty much just what Jeff said he needed to do...he lacked the social skills, in other words if he developed his social skills he could do well. Clearly Ozzy seems to have a realistic assessment and plan for this game, but can he carry it off? His physical prowess will definately keep him safe for a while, but is it enough time for him to develop the social ties that he needs to last? 9. Parvati: More cynical, less trusting, and more devious. Jeff notes that she could be this seasons Amber...that in and of itself says alot to me. If she's figured it out and what if she teams up with somebody? To me this says that she will team up with somebody, and I don't think it will be a female. Could she make it to end game? 10. Yau-man: Knows it's going to be physical and he won't get away with how he played the game the last time...Jeff also notes that he can not play the same way this time....so, again Yau knows that going in as well, can he change, is he capable of playing a different game, I don't know. Clearly his assets are as a resource to surviving on the island, and by offering your vote to someone else, riding coattails. There are others there that already know how to survive on the island, they have done it before....so, to me his strengths are not needed, he's not strong, and there are other smart peeps out there, he could offer his vote to a strong player that may need him to avoid being a boot later, either James or Ozzy. I think Yau-man is doomed. 11. Alexis: Behind my dimples I'm fiercely competitive...and serious. Jeff notes essentially the same observation and he picks her over all of the fans...on appearances she seems the only formidable girl there, I think she could possibly have a shot at end game. Will be interesting how she plays it. 12. Chet knew he'd be on Survivor some day...no insight into game play, but Jeff notes that Chet "gets it"....I think he will be one to watch as well. The pagaent business is truly cut throat, he will be FUN to watch and could last long. Will he line up with the girls or the strong guy? 13. Erik: Lives life sporadically, doesn't have any plan. Jeff notes he's enthusiastic but immature and could get played. Editing him as happy go lucky, no real plan? Is this a total red herring or is he destined to be an early out? He's a track runner, could be a good competitor and he appears to get off to the fastest start in the first competiton of the show? I think he'll be out by mid show. 14. Jason: I was raised on an Island like this, this is going to be like another day at the beach....Jeff: He has a man crush on Ozzy and thinks he can best him...I say, yeah, right! It seems like they got him as he could possibly be a cross between Yau-man and Ozzy, this I've got to see! If he is, he will win this game. Make no mistake though, my money is on Ozzy Could be interesting if he chooses wisely and gets into a good alliance, if he is like Ozzy, he'll be a mid game player perhaps? 15. Joel: Doesn't know if he's a super hero, but will try! He notes that he is here for his family, has his eye dead set on the prize, it sounds like this will be work for him. Jeff notes that while his physical strength could make him a target, he thinks Joel's will be advantageous...clearly he will at least make the merge. I like this guy. He appears larger than life, he seems humble and grounded and FOCUSED. He could be a winner...If I were a betting girl, I'd say he could take James, but in the water my $ is still on Ozzy, Joel looks like he would sink like a rock. He definately looks like a character, I hope he is not a "journey" player... 16. Kathy: She sticks her foot in her mouth, I'll ask the boob girl...she's a self described misfit...Jeff thinks Kathy will be tested by the conditions and as previously noted he brings up EI when talking about her. Clearly she's destined for EI. She seems like an idiot to me...to me her only way of making it would be like a Courtney....make it to the merge and you will perhaps have a shot as the lesser target...sounds like her mouth will get her into trouble long before that. Shows no physical abilities...I think she's an early boot candidate. 17. Mary: She feels she should be doing this show...she's money driven...Jeff thinks she will have trouble, noting what she needs to do...hmmm, I don't think his commentary or hers lends much. She is "the boob girl"...if she's smart and gets a handle on the group dynamics early, perhaps she could make the merge, but Jeff doesn't sound confident at all... 18. Mikey B: I've never been camping, Jeff notes how good "Boston" is to Survivor....hmmmm, sounds like he could be a narrator. He also sounds like a cross between Cirie and Boston Rob...or Rocky??? He wants to be everyone's best friend....I think they will need him at first, and if he's the narrator I give him a vote of confidence...could he make end game? 19. Natalie: Survivor incorporates mind, body, spirit??? Jeff questions her attitude, and doesn't know about her...she will be tested...Doesn't sound particularly promising from Jeff, could she be a villain? To tell you the truth the only female that appears to have any fortitude at all to me on this tribe is Alexis. While Natalie is a physical trainer, there is certainly not much substance to her. I think the Favs women will demolish the fans women...we shall see. 20. Tracy: I've seen other women my age on the show and they are not attractive...I am. I am a thrill seeker. Jeff notes that she's a builder and could be an asset, like Boston Rob, but could be seen as too threatening. Hmmmm, not an overly exciting assessment. She could be a misfit, is she on a journey, out to prove something. Sorry, the fans women just don't cut it for me...certainly doesn't appear motherly in anyway... With all of the commentary I have the most hope for Jonathan, Parvati, Amanda, and perhaps because I am such a fan, Ozzy, also liked that he is stating pregame what Jeff says he has to do as well. Clearly Ozzy is wishful thinking. For the Fans tribe I think that Alexis, Mikey B, Chet and perhaps Joel have the best chance.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 01-23-08, 10:11 AM (EST) 7. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" I am so glad to see that this new way of old vs. new has made others excited as well. I do really believe it will allow a whole new dynamic; I hope it comes out as good as I anticipate as I was a bit disappointed in All Stars though not very surprised. byoffer and pepe - so glad to see you in here and I do hope we see more from you since (as already stated) we were sorely lacking in discussion and I get as much enjoyment in reading opinions as I do in watching the show. smoke - to be quite honest, I do not really know the timeline - however - Jeff Probst is extremely astute after all this time and there is no question in my mind (regardless of how far into the show or not that he makes these comments) that his thoughts are relevant. Very nice categorization Michel on how the past players were reflected and I would tend to agree with those assessments. As you know I tend to look at what the "story" is first and then we can see how the players are edited to further that story. Ami is a perfect example (and Jonathan as well) of a character who was not really a villain but needed to be created as such which I recall stating emphatically in both their seasons. It is painfully obvious when someone is just a dirty player and when someone is being modified editing wise to create the storyline. There will no doubt be some villains created, underdogs, supermen/women and the like - the most interesting reveal to myself will be (with respect to the favorites) is if they are portrayed in the same type of vein or differently. Let's not forget that Amber was quite a different player from Australia (or so we were led to believe...) The balance of personalities of fans v. favorites that was brought up is not surprising. On paper, the similarities are "on the mark." We can only wait and see if they shine through - I recall Stephanie from Thailand and how Jeff said what happened to the girl we saw on the video? For them to pick similar qualities between the fans and the favorites is for obvious reasons; whether these fans come through is another thing. fp - thank you for adding those commentaries; I was going to tell you to please do so This sounds like a very eager bunch of "fans" but they have a battle with the likes of some of these "favorites"   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-10-08, 02:30 PM (EST) 8. "Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" The introduction of Micronesia’s story left me with these impressions of its participants: Airai The Jamies: As with this character from Guatemala who said he couldn’t possibly win with Stephenie on his tribe and became a villain when he developed a conflict with Bobby Jon, these are the members of Airai that already have become characters, some of which may even become this season’s Villains: Kathleen gave Yau Man a big cheer and had a confessional: “These are the people I’ve watched on TV so there’s that certain awe about them, especially Yau. I saw him come out with his little Yau Man hat and his glasses and I love the Yau Man.” Walking along the beach of the second island, Kathleen got some help from her idol who showed where Fairplay had dropped Airai’s Idol. After jumping for joy, she commented: “Thanks to Yau Man, I have immunity for the very first tribal council that we go to. I’m like…safe!” It didn’t take long for Kathleen to make an impression on her tribe: “I knew Chet was a homosexual right away, you know, you can just tell he is. But I’ve never been friends with a homosexual. I worked with somebody in the 19…80s, bartending, that was gay, but that’s been about it.” Kathleen ended the scene by saying: “I’m sure I got off on the wrong foot. I’m sure it pays to keep your mouth shut but I just can’t help myself.” Kathleen was crying in her next confessional: “Tonight’s the first night here and the downpour came and it was hard and it didn’t stop. I hope by morning I feel a whole lot better because right now, this sucks.” Kathleen has already been portrayed as the “Dumb Player”. As such, she can’t last very long in this story. Erik had a confessional during the player introduction: “I know a lot about Ozzy in terms of the competition. He’s won all of the challenges. I’m a track and cross country runner. I think I have what it takes to compete at that level.” After reaching the second island first, Erik said: “I worked my ass off to get across that stretch of water. I beat Ozzy. That’s good, that’s what I wanted to do. I needed to show him what I’m made of.” During the challenge, Erik probably didn’t make any friends with the Favorites when he threw sand on them. Having worked hard to put a target on his own back, Erik could become another “Dumb Player” or he can evolve into a real “Villain”. He has shown some cockiness already and conflicts could soon emerge. As a villain, he would have a chance at a longer stay in the game but that role still isn’t one that befits the winner. Tracy started off by saying: “I’m a fan, so coming to survivor and starting a game on the beach…Jeff, seeing him there, it was surreal.” She soon added: “I wanted to throw up when I saw Johnny Fairplay. He’s a pig, a loser pig. I would love one moment to kick him. One moment to kick him hard in the shin.” After showing her tribe how she felt about Fairplay, Tracy went on: “I’m a fan, I’m not somebody who simply said ‘Oh! Let’s be on survivor.’ Now that we are playing the favorites, we’re out for blood.” Which way will Tracy’s story evolve now that Fairplay is gone? She seems determined to play the game but we heard nothing to suggest she could come out on top. We do have indications she could still become a villain but we’ll need more information on her before we can see where she fits in the story. The Briannas: These are the players from Airai that weren’t part of the story of episode #1. Unless they find a role soon, they won’t fare any better than the woman who was nothing more than an extra, a nobody, in Guatemala’s story. Mary didn’t have a confessional but she was focused on a lot when the Favorites walked in. Maybe she’s a little star-struck! Natalie wasn’t given a role in this episode. Chet talking with Kathleen about being gay is the extent of his contribution to the first episode. Joel, goaded on by Erik, had this to say during the introductions: “When I saw James coming around the corner, I got excited. He is, up until this season, the biggest and strongest that has ever played the game. I think I can take him.” Joel, a man of few words, listened to Eliza and Fairplay recount how everything was great at Malakal and when Jeff asked him if he was “buying all this?” he answered “No” to which Fairplay responded with the title quote “You guys are dumber than you look.” Joel shrugged and said: “If it’s true good for them. They can get fat and happy and we’ll just win the challenges.” As Jeff said, Airai worked well together and did win the challenge. Putting the “Hulk” in the category described by one of the worst challenge players ever can look strange but I’m talking about contribution to the story. Joel had no real impact. He wasn’t even mentioned by Jeff during the challenge as he pulled Airai’s cart to victory. He certainly didn’t equal the splash James made in China’s first episode. It’s early enough that his role can evolve and he may become a character but for now, the impression is that Joel won’t help Airai with enough challenge wins. The Dannis: These are the members of Airai who have made a subtle impact on the story despite going up against the returning players. If a Fan wins this game, he may already be in this group. Alexis, right after receiving her Airai buff, had a confessional: “I think the fans versus the favorites stuff is the ultimate challenge. Because we have the favorites who obviously have played this game before so they’re coming in here with the experience but at the same time you have us and we know their game, we know, not only their strengths but their weaknesses too. I think that puts us at a huge advantage.” Witnessing Kathleen’s encounter with Chet, Alexis had a big smile when she commented: “Kathy definitely…she just kinda puts her foot in her mouth sometimes.” (The editor showed that Alexis was someone we can believe by letting us hear right then Kathleen telling Tracy ‘I’ve never seen implants, ever’) Alexis told Micheal, Erik, Joel and Jason that Kathy just made a comment about Tracy’s boobs. That got an immediate response from Jason: ‘It’s a good thing she got the immunity idol.” After the challenge win, the camera focused on Alexis as she was holding the immunity idol. I was waiting to see which Fan would get the key positive confessional about the twist and it was Alexis who was chosen to deliver it. She told us of each tribe's advantage and how she can profit from it. It showed her as a player, one to keep an eye on. Her confessional could indicate she wants to prove she can play the strategic game. How far could that take her? Jason had the first confessional for the fans: “I’ve always been a huge fan of Survivor. When we pulled up on the boat, it was a torrential downpour. One of my life’s dream has been to come out and try to survive in the wild, so this is really incredible for me.” As soon as Airai reached their beach, Jason had a second confessional: “When we first pulled up to the beach, it was really exciting. We’re the fans of Survivor. This is all of our dreams to be here. We want to kick the favorites’ asses.” Jason had a confessional about Kathy: “The second the crazy lady found the immunity idol, I think everyone was a little worried because we all felt as a consensus that she was going to be the first one to go.” Showing that the favorites did have an early advantage, we went to Airai’s camp at night and saw them still working on their shelter after we had just been shown Malakal going to bed. Jason had a confessional: “Tonight is night number one and we took too long to find a location to build our shelter. It didn’t come along as planned.” The rain came and we stayed in Airai to see the conditions. We weren’t shown if Malakal had such problems. To stress the point, when the sun rose the next morning, we were back in the Favorites’ camp. The contrast looked like the editor’s way of proving the value of experience. Jason was the one who stepped forward to receive the idol and the flint from Jeff, a possible indication that he is taking the lead for the tribe. Jason has already taken the role of narrator for Airai and he could even be their leader. As narrator, he will probably last to the merge. We will have time until then to see just how much of a factor he will be after that. Micheal started by describing the members of Airai: “Our tribe consists of ‘Big Bird’ (Kathleen), the Southern Princess’ (Alexis), we got the ‘Incredible Hulk’ (Joel), we got ‘Jon Bon Jovi in his prime’ (Jason) and then we got ‘Queer Eye for the Straight Guy’ (Chet). Man! It’s gonna be a crew, Ha! Ha! Let me tell you!” Micheal also had the confessional about the tree mail that Chet and Tracy brought back: “I think everybody is biting at the bit, just to get in the game. And I think the favorites are chuckling at us right now saying that we are going to be a piece of cake and that they are going to walk all over us. They are not looking at us as competitors, that’s good, even better as underdogs. We’ll take that role.” It looks like we have our second narrator in Airai. I found it interesting that he didn’t mention Mary, Natalie, Erik and Tracy in his description of the Airai crew. Two potential villains and two women who weren’t part of the story. Add Kathleen and we would have a viable pre-merge boot list, editing-wise. Some of the persons named could be part of Micheal’ alliance and this ‘crew’ could take over the tribe. Micheal’s first comment was a funny description of the tribe and being the funny narrator could be Micheal’s only impact. Malakal The Bobby Jons: Members of Malakal who didn’t get any enhancement from their previous showing. Unless their story start to take off soon, they will be leaving before the end game. Cirie told us: “People at home, watching, identify with me. I’m like the person at home watching, I’m on the couch, remember. I was the couch potato.” After the challenge loss, Cirie told her tribe that she may not swim as well as Ozzy but she did pretty good in the challenge. In a confessional, she gave us her thoughts: “We’re going to tribal council and I do not have a plan at all. I have no idea what I’m gonna do right now. I don’t really trust any of these people. I don’t care, I’ll get rid of anybody as long as it’s not me.” Despite her lackluster first episode, Cirie’s best chance at becoming an end game player is that she’s now the swing vote between the two alliances. Showing more of her could have ruined the suspense regarding which side will take over. She would fit nicely with Yau Man, Ami and Jonathan, the mature alliance, but Cirie aligned with the young and crazy before! She may also feel more connections with James. We have to note however that Cirie was quite a narrator in Exile Island so being almost ignored by the editors is a bad sign for her. Amanda had a meeting at night, when we saw Ozzy talking to her about an alliance: “I will totally be honest with you. If you saw my season, you could know that if I say I’m gonna stick to something, I do it.” Amanda agreed: “It’s so funny that you’re here because you were one of my favorite players. I don’t know, I think that’s really cool.” Amanda has the smallest reputation among the Favorites so her story has time to evolve. This was Fairplay’s episode after all so it’s difficult to assess Amanda’s prospects for the end game. Even if her introduction was much less than stellar, we will reserve judgment on her future. Ami was walking on the beach on day 3, just before tribal council, when Johnny told her how having a baby changes things. She asked: “Is there any way that I can talk you into staying in?” There wasn’t. Ami then had her only confessional of the episode: “Fairplay is a loose canon. Fairplay said to me that he wanted to go home. He just puts you on your serious stance guard because you don’t know ever what he means.” Ami then let her alliance know about her discussion, telling them it could be a ploy. “He could pull a fast one” she said. Her confessional continued: “I just have to be careful that he doesn’t do anything crazy. I’m a little worried that Fairplay is gonna come together with James, Ozzy, Amanda and Parvati. All I know is that, tonight, tribal council is gonna be crazy because, if I know Johnny Fairplay, he’s gonna stir things up.” It seems the editors will be repaying an old debt to Ami as she doesn’t appear to be the villainess this time. When we saw her, it was as a careful, calculating player. It’s troublesome for her future that she practically played no role in this episode but she also has time to grow. James had an early confessional: “I thought I should be on the fan side because I’m a fan of all these people. For me, to see Yau and Ozzy, it’s crazy.” James quickly impressed Parvati with his work. He confided: “I definitely appreciate the hard work that goes around in this camp. It’s so much nicer to have everybody pulling the rope, getting everything together, helping each other. I almost wanted to give somebody a hug because it was really nice.” ( We then heard Eliza in agreement, saying it’s “so much nicer than day 1 of last time) James’ confessional went on: “I mean, we all know what we’re doing already. The favorites definitely should have an advantage over the fans.” Hearing James talk about Parvati reminded me of Nathan who was worried he’d be the dum-dum who wouldn’t see he was being used. It wouldn’t be James’ first mistake. His portrayal was mainly the same as in China’s first episode except that this time, he was the one saying he loved his tribemates rather than hoping to get their love. It would appear that James won’t do much better than in China. Yau Man was introduced saying: “The only reason to come back is for the million dollars. That’s the only reason I’m gonna put up with a lot of suffering and bugs and smelly people.” After seeing Fairplay grab the Airai Immunity Idol, Yau plunged for the one on the Malakal boat, tackling John on the side of the boat before grabbing it. He commented: “All these idols seem to like me. I hope there will be other idols along the way this season and they will be all mine.” Fairplay did tell us “Yau Man’s not nice. He sucks. Soon as that idol’s gone, see you later, bucko.” Day #3 began with Yau Man going to work on building a fire: “I’m trying to focus the sun onto this, quote, unquote, dry coconut husk. With a drop of water on my glasses to act as a magnifying glass, a very nice magnifying glass, the sun is almost vertical enough that this should work. It did work in Fiji.” Yau Man proved his value once more as Eliza noted in confessional: “Yau Man got our fire started miraculously.” At TC, Yau Man answered Jeff when asked about his smile at one of Johnny’s answers: “My first thought is what is his scheme. It’s just a strange thing to say suddenly out of the blue.” Ozzy and Jonathan, however, told Jeff they thought Johnny was sincere in his desire to go home. Even if Yau Man had a better first episode than the other 4 ‘Bobby Jons’, his strategy once again centered around the Hidden Immunity Idol. It’s troubling that very little fanfare was made over his fire making abilities. We did hear Eliza exclaim it was miraculous but Yau Man didn’t even receive the acknowledgment he received in Fiji when all he did was open a box. No one mentioned the value of Yau Man. Not even Jeff. His alliance with Jonathan, another strong, mature man could remind us of the one with Earl but there’s a huge difference: Jonathan has a strong polarizing character while Earl had the uncanny ability to bring people together. The Stephenies : It took a few episodes for Stephenie to become the ‘Mean Mayan Queen’ so for now, I only see one candidate for this less than enviable position: This Favorite will get a lot of airtime but not necessarily in the best of light. If this is indeed his role, then we can say he won’t win this game. We can consider however that he will last long into the game. Jonathan had the first confessional of the season : “You could be a fan of the Boston Red Sox but you don’t want to play against the Bosox because you’re gonna get your ass handed to you.” (I found it interesting that the editors chose the mutiny as the moment to remember Jonathan) Jonathan was the first player to target someone from his original season when he said Ozzy or Parvati were the ones to vote out. He quickly rallied to Eliza’s suggestion as he explained in a confessional: “I think we should take Parvati out first. Parvati is a much bigger threat as a social player than Ozzy is. Fairplay’s a gem to have on your alliance. He needs us much more than we need him. You keep him around for as long as possible. Hell! I’d take him to the end if I could.” (Like Fairplay said: “Have you not watched this show before!”) After the challenge, we saw Malakal’s slow walk back to camp which was followed by a confessional from Jonthan: “We tried hard, lost. There’s no shame in losing. These fans are so excited so enthusiastic. They are playing Survivor, it’s their dream and they just had more heart out there.” Despite his early resolution, Jonathan seems to once more be playing too hard, too fast, especially when he talked of taking Fairplay to the end. Part of that was to redeem Fairplay’s own story but it looked like the beginning of the story of a “Villain”. Jonathan is a marvelous character and an amusing narrator. He should make this season very entertaining. He was forced on us as the “Villain” of Cook Islands so it could be a repeat performance. Of course, it wouldn’t take much to turn him into a very clinical player which would make him a strong candidate for the victory. His problem right now is more with his target’s portrayal than his own. More on her later. Either way he turns out, we’ll have to keep an eye on Jonathan! The Ambers: If a favorite is our winner, we will find him or her in this group. They will be more fleshed out than in their first appearance Parvati started by saying: “Coming back, I’m playing really aggressively and it’s pretty much no holds barred for me.” After agreeing with Eliza that they had a good group where everyone was already bonding, Parvati had a confessional: “I have to win this time, it’s my second time. I’m not coming back here to starve and be miserable. I was a flirt on Cook Islands and that’s it. There was no other dimension to me at all, I don’t think.” We saw her trying to give James a piggy-back ride and then she went on: “Outwardly, I’m still gonna be flirty but I am playing smart this time.I want to make the right alliances with people I know I can trust. This time, there’s only one guy to flirt with really, it’s the big guy, James.” James was agreeing saying that “Parvati is definitely attractive. There’s something about her, she’s like a sex kitten. I like it.” We then saw James picking up Parvati. An indication on how she advances in the game, maybe? In the talks prior to tribal council, Parvati went to collect water with Fairplay when he started to break down, thinking about his little girl. The scene seemed to flow naturally with JFP’s confessional cutting in while the two walked but first Parvati had her buff around her torso but then, suddenly, she had her bikini top on and they were collecting firewood. How much did Parvati play into making Johnny ask the tribe to “let it be me”? What we did hear was a change of music to a very dramatic theme as Parvati told him maybe he should say he wanted to go home. “It would throw Eliza off the scent” she told him. Parvati, the girl who was portrayed as not being able to decide on who to vote out in Cook Islands, then had a crucial confessional: “I don’t know, it might be just too crazy but I came up with this little plan to distract Jonathan, Eliza, Yau Man and Ami into voting for Fairplay while we vote out Eliza because I don’t want Eliza turning around and trying to snake me.” Is it just an impression or was Parvati the leader of her little alliance?! This girl, who played a good game by just floating in the Cook Islands, is now presented as a schemer. When I said Jonathan’s main problem was her portrayal, I meant that it would have been very easy to present Parvati as nothing more than before, someone who isn’t a true survivor and, therefore, has to go. Showing her playing the game a little more smartly makes Jonathan look like the villain, especially since she didn’t target him. He’s the traitor again while she’s trying to improve her chances and not even talking about grudges. If she is the winner, then we really have another Amber. Ozzy told us: “People are all trying to beat me now. Hopefully, I can tap into that same energy and will that I had last time.” As soon as Malakal hit their beach, Ozzy had a confessional: “The fact that we, the favorites, have played this game before, I think that is our biggest advantage. It’s an expectation that we gotta live up to.” Ozzy took a walk with Parvati and Fairplay to scheme. Parvati told John “We’re voting Eliza out.” Ozzy explained their thinking to us: “We are weary a little of Eliza, just hearing about the way she played the game in Vanuatu. She’s shifty, crafty. Some of us feel that we can’t really trust her. I’m a little nervous because Fairplay has got his villain personna to live up to so maybe he will just betray everyone he can. I don’t know but at this point, we need Fairplay.” One may object that Ozzy had a much less stellar introduction than during Cook Islands’ first episode but I was impressed that we DIDN’T hear anything about ‘Dolphin Boy’ or ‘King Neptune’. We KNOW he has those abilities so I found it very important for his chances to see that his other abilities were focused on. Ozzy was well liked by many in CI (Nate, Parvati, Sundra, JP, Cece, Flica, Cao Boi in particular) but the lingering impression was that he had a bad social game. The editors hid his strategic abilities to present Yul as the puppetmaster. This time, we saw Ozzy socializing and strategizing smartly, instead of Oscar arrogantly throwing a challenge to get rid of Billy. A promising start. Eliza’s first moment was her flashback to Vanuatu where she said: “You plotted against me since Day 1.” Micronesia has started the same way for Eliza, as she was once again the early target. She doesn’t seem to have yet heeded Twila’s advice to “Chill out.” When they got in camp, Eliza started talking, (!) telling Malakal: “Can we make a pact right now that we are going to kick their asses?” Eliza had a confessional about the developments in camp: “I’d say that I have pretty keen powers of observation. From what I can tell Amanda and Ozzy have this rapport with one another already…And, ever since we got here, Parvati hasn’t been able to take her hands and her eyes off of James. She’s definitely going to have him wrapped around her finger. I think there’s definitely going to be romance bubbling between both Parvati and James and Amanda and Ozzy and that makes all four of them very dangerous.” At the start of Day #2, while Ozzy was rubbing coconut oil on Amanda’s back and Parvati was resting her sleepy head on James’s shoulder, Eliza gathered Ami, Jonathan and Yau Man for talks of an alliance. She had a confessional: “Amy, Yau Man, Jonathan and myself, the four of us are a tight alliance. But, the problem is there’s another foursome out here…We’re really worried about that foursome and we are worried they would try to pull in Fairplay and Cirie.” She told her group they needed a 5th to which Jonathan proposed Fairplay. Eliza wasn’t too happy! “Wait a minute. I don’t trust him.” To prove she was right to worry, just then the camera cut to Parvati, Ozzy and Fairplay! However, the “likeable person” then came back to tell Jonathan, Ami and Eliza that the other four “are a done deal. They want Eliza out.” With Jonathan’s help, Eliza started trying to turn the tables and target Parvati. After seeing Yau Man start a fire Eliza had this confessional: “We have fire, we’ve been eating, we’ve been drinking we are well rested, we are fully hydrated and we are ready to kick some butt.” She even rubbed it in Airai’s face when they arrived at the Immunity Challenge: “Jeff, you have no idea the advantage we have. Not only do we have a shelter, we have fire, we have food, we have full bellies. We are so excited and so pumped for this challenge. Ready to kick some butt.” At Tribal Council, Eliza answered Jeff’s question about reputations: “It’s definitely a factor. Whether or not somebody says I’m just gonna get to know you for you, it doesn’t matter, it’s going to be in the back of their head. The things you did, the moves you made and how you interacted with people. It’s gonna play a factor in how people vote.” We saw the usual paranoia from Eliza when, asked if Johnny was in fact quitting, she told Jeff no because “There’s still a possibility in my mind that Fairplay is not going home tonight. I don’t think there’s one person who didn’t bring all their stuff with them and we are still voting.” Despite being shown on camera as telling her team about the proposed pact to kick Airai’s asses, Eliza didn’t get a confessional to tell us about it, so that could indicate either Malakal doesn’t accomplish the task or Eliza isn’t there to finish the job. It will take quite a reversal of fortune for both Parvati and Eliza to co-exist until the end. The fact that Eliza was the one shown to have the false confessional about her tribe’s readiness to win the challenge is another troubling sign for her future. But Vanuatu has taught me not to underestimate this little fighter. This was an intense episode for her. It signals that either her story will soon reach its climax, or she does become an impact player. She may simply need time and a Malakal winning streak.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

girlinglasses 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-10-08, 10:22 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" I've been reading this thread for many, many years and am a huge fan of all of yours. I thought I'd chime in this time around. I'm not nearly as articulate or insightful as the regulars in this thread though1 I posted this on my blog prior to reading Michel's post above - but fully admit to being influenced by the pre-premiere analysis above and some of the speculating in the fans forum - I hope I don't appear to be "stealing" anyone's ideas!! **** What a terrific opening episode. I love the fans versus favourites theme and I’m sure the producers were thrilled that the fans won the first challenge - it made sure the favs wouldn’t get cocky - though they don’t strike me as a particularly cocky bunch. It set the right tone though and lit a fire under the favorites for future challenges. I think Jonathan is around to stay and has a shot at the win…unless he ends up being the narrator who almost wins, in which case his primary alliance-mate will be someone to watch. I was disappointed to see Parvati hooking up with James, but not because I don’t like her… My pre-game thought was that she and Jonathan might align and I saw them going far together. Parvati could play Amber’s strategy or Amanda’s (without the poor final counsel showing). Also, right off the bat she was quoted saying she knows she needs to do more than just flirt this time, which isn’t to say, no flirting at all! She proved herself though with her cagey chat with Jonny Fairplay - she’s playing to win. And did I hear a million dollar quote from her??? Seeing the episode though Eliza is actually a good alliance mate for Jonathan if Parvati ends up loosing her focus with James in the picture. both Jonathan and Eliza are known to be shifty and will need to prove loyalty (and obtain loyalty) to at least one other person to be successful. Yau is a perfect third. Cirie’s absence for the episode makes me think she isn’t a key player, nor is she an early exit. I don’t know what I think of Ozzie and Amanda…would the favs be so stupid as to allow a coupledom? On the fans side, Mikey B. looks very promising! And H-O-T too. I think he’s going to be a major narrator this season. Also, I read he’s a writer/actor just like Jonathan. I loved his description of his tribemates! Also notable were the two young men, Erik and Jason. The woman were mostly a blur, though Alexis looked promising from a strategy and placement perspective. And of course, glad to see JFP gone in a flash. He takes up waaaay too much screen time. Buh-bye Jonny!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-11-08, 09:53 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-11-08 AT 10:01 AM (EST) Hi everyone, thrilled that the show is off and running! I was so excited about this season and seeing some of my personal favorites back, and I too love the premise, Fans vs. Favorites. I think the theme of the show was hammered in through the entire episode, a real polarization of sorts, with the Fans winning the IC, showing the Favorites that if they don't get their act together, they won't be around that long. My thoughts were a bit different than michel's, but I always LOVE your thoughts, and you are so wise! I thought the key quotes and confessionals from the fans were basically from Alexis, Jason, and Mikey B. Everyone else was insignificant to me, Kathleen is just downright distracting, to them especially. But we all know that the distracting one can end up being the final 3 goat, although I do not think she will be. For the most part I thought that Jason and Mikey B were the narrators, which makes me think they could be out mid game. I still feel that we have not heard the "million dollar quote" from either tribe, but who knows, maybe there won't be one this season. I was impressed that Erik tried to sabotage the Fav's while they were digging in the sand pit...interesting, I think he's definately moving the target from other strong players backs(Ozzy, James, Joel, etc) to his own. AS michel noted, he's out to best Ozzy, and this is his story, perhaps. Somehow I do not think that he will.... Tracy, Mary, Kathleen, all seemed very unimpressive to me, and probably not much worth in challenges, I don't know. Natalie was not really seen in this episode, will she be developed later or is she a non-entity. Chet I think is there for entertainment value, but doesn't seem like a competitor to me, but will he have a social game? Not that impressive to me either in the first show. Joel, big, but not much else there. I was the most impressed with Alexis and Jason after ep 1. I worry with Jason's narrator role that he, as I noted earlier could be gone midgame. Favorites: Key confessionals, imo were from Yauman, Ozzy, and Parvati. I want to talk about Jonathan, as he did have the first confessional. It surprises me how many people absolutely love him. I enjoy his rhetoric, he's amusing, but I don't think he is the serious gamer that so many folks on the boards do. Last time he played I thought he acted without thinking much of the time. He definately presents with game on, but he's too quick to commit to the wrong folks and it burns him in the end. I think his game is starting out the EXACT same way, he's quick to commit to the wrong people, and I think it will indeed burn him. This is just my personal feelings....if I played, I would KNOW that you have to keep the strong around or you won't have the numbers at the merge. I would be thrilled to go with folks that showed romantic interest in each other, as this is most LIKELY to throw greater targets on their backs, and less of one on yours. I think that Cirie will indeed figure this out...I predict that she will align with the couples as they all will have a much stronger target on their backs, and they will indeed get you to the merge if you vote with them, as they are strong and challenge hogs....just my thoughts here. If the alliance of Jonathan, Ami, Eliza, and Yau-man outlasts the couples, I predict the FAVs will go to merge with less numbers. I think if the couples make it to the merge, than they are likely to bring more numbers. Of course all of this oculd be foiled with tribal swaps, and I'm sure that we will see some of these. Yau-man, definately playing the same game. Jonathan, playing the same game as well and is indeed one of the narrators, so I think he will be out midgame. Eliza joins him as the other narrator, and thus she will most likely not make end game. Cirie I think is a real enigma as we do not know where she stands at all, I hated her confessional about having no plan and doesn't know what to do...that did not leave me with faith in her end game, but as I noted above, she is in the power position, will she capitalize on it, or will it be her downfall. Ami, I liked her initial role in this ep, she was first to suggest the alliance of 4. Eliza just downright gets on my nerves, she just won't shut up, but I suppose she is entertaining. Now for the couples...as you all know, I am a huge Ozzy fan. I loved his pure dedication to winning the game on his SOLE efforts, I also think he is an extremely smart/intelligent player, besting anyone in really difficult and cerebral puzzles and such. I also think he is an eloquent speaker and doesn't speak unless he really has something to say. He has voiced his knowledge of his errors of his last game, he needs to be more social, well, he is definately being more social. BUT, what concerns me, is that I am fearful that he may change a bit too much, Amanda is going to be a distraction to him, and he noted, he needs to tap into the same energy and will that he had last time. To me, get involved in a romantic liason, while is GREAT TV, it concerns me that he will lose his intensity and focus. Seeing my hero getting romantically involved is very alarming to me regarding his winning the game. OTOH, Amanda is either a master manipulator and gamer by seeking out the strongest player to ride his coattails a la Amber, or is she just downright smitten? I think she is headed in the right direction to end game. Parvati, I still don't know about her. I did not get the impression that she was playing the game more this time, in fact I just thought that she was playing the same game. If she and James are indeed aligned with Amanda/Ozzy though, I have faith in their longevity. James was quite comical this time around especially with his awed reaction by all of the favorites, he wanted to just hug someone! And I LOVED his confessional, "Parvati is one of those sex kitten types, and I LIKE IT!" Right now it does seem to me that James is falling hook, line, and sinker as well. If these two guys start falling for these sirens, then the sirens will outlast their heros...time will tell. Great episode, can't wait for next week! ETA: Welcome to our boards, Girlingglas...don't be a stranger! We love to hear your thoughts! Also, wanted to note that we all know the Exile twist will most likely effect the game in a big way as well, enabling the two tribes to gain some premerge alliances as well as changing the fate for the one that finds the hidden II...will be fun!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-11-08, 01:14 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-11-08 AT 01:15 PM (EST) Great thoughts to start the first episode analysis, michel! I don't disagree with much (if any) of what you wrote, other than that I feel somewhat lukewarm about Parvati's edit. I think it's worth keeping in mind that it's episode one and we've seen the Favourites before while the Fans are new to us, so it's natural that they (the Fans) would have more confessional time and in-camp development time the first few episodes. Because the Faves lost the challenge, the editors did have to spend some time over there editing-wise, but I think that is going to be a pattern over at least the next couple of episodes to let the character building go on from the Fans side instead of the Faves. We should get a much clearer picture of where the editing is going by about episode 4 or 5 when the early boots are out of the way and we're down to a more manageable number (16 or so) to properly focus our editing teeth on. Past seasons where we've had 18 to 20 contestants, I remember it taking a longer time for the editing to really flesh out (to use a word that VS likes ). A stocking stuffer from Agman! It will be a great day when every one of our schools get all the money they need while the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to raise enough funds to buy a bomber.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-11-08, 07:45 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Episode 1 Editing" I have not yet been able to read the posts after the first episode for which I apologize in advance. I want to post my post and I will then go back and read and respond. Some of my thoughts, therefore, may correspond so please ignore I will say I am very happy to see some postings and I do hope that there are more from a variety of people since the last few seasons have unfortunately left this thread with only a few contributions and for those who have stayed with this thread; I do appreciate that Believe it or not, I did not post as lengthy as usual (reading back that may not be apparent lol) and I think for the remainder of the season I will curtail the inordinate amount of time I spend on various aspects of the editing; perhaps it will be easier to get through the thread The Introduction To Us Jeff proceeds to let us know that the 10 Americans on board the boat are "fans of Survivor." We then get to hone in on the favorites with the opening confessional which ultimately established the mindset of the Favorites (generally speaking) Jonathan (conf) "You can be a fan of the Boston Red Sox but you don't want to play against the Boston Red Sox; you're gonna get your a-- handed to you" Jonny Fairplay is then given a confession (as he is gone it isn't relevant other than ironic since he cited himself as the greatest player) Parvarti (conf) "Coming back I'm playing very aggressively and pretty much no holds barred for me" YM (conf) "The only reason to come back is for the million dollars...." Cirie (conf) "People at home watching identify with me...." James (conf) "I could almost be on the fan side cause I'm a fan of all these people; for me to see like Yau and Ozzy it's like crazy" Ozzy (conf) "Everybody wants to beat me now (Jonathan) and I hope that I can tap into that same energy and will that I had last time" With that alone, it will be interesting to look back to determine if those selected above to start off this unique season could be the winner or at very least at the end competing for the million dollars. I trust that each of the 10 received sound bites so why were the above selected? Better commentary? Perhaps. Although I would suggest that not all of the commentary was so unique that it required attention. Jonathan comments on the premise but focuses on the ridiculous notion of the fans beating favorites (his being chosen is not hard to fathom as it is good commentary), Parvarti specifies that she is going to play hard (a solid confessional which promotes future playing), YM advises that the million dollars is the only reason to come back (another sound confessional but nothing about game play), Cirie capitalizes solely on why perhaps she was selected (perhaps some new audience members need to know this), James advises that he is almost in awe of being with the people that were chosen (which is questionable as to outcome) and Ozzy notes that he is the one everyone wants to beat (whether Jonathan shown is of any foreshadowing that Jonathan will at least beat out Ozzy remains to be seen and/or that Ozzy will be a major target for everyone in general or at the very least, Ozzy's expectations for himself as well as others expectations of Ozzy that we see later come into play). Jeff "For the next 39 days (Parvarti) they'll be forced (YM) to work (Cirie) together (Amanda) creating a new society (Ami/Jonathan) while battling (Eliza) the elements and each other (JFP). They must (Mikey) learn to adapt (Chet) or they'll (Jason) be voted out (Natalie) of the game. In the (Erik) end (Kathy) only one will (Mary) remain to claim (Alexis) the million dollar prize (Joel) Considering the Fans did not get immediate opening confessionals, of note that mostly everyone on the Favorites was shown does not lend much insight on anyone at that time highlighted The Introduction of the Favorites Each Survivor favorite was introduced with a clip from their season as their fans stood by and watched them emerge with Jason confessing prior to the arrival: Jason (conf) "I've always been a huge fan of Survivor....one of my life's dreams has always been to come out and try to survive in the wild" (Perhaps that IS his storyline since we hear his dream is to survive in the wild as opposed to his dream is to win a million dollars on Survivor) Tracy (conf) "So coming to Survivor... Jeff, seeing him there was surreal" (Nothing of any significance as this is purely narrative) Of note with the introductions and perhaps how we are supposed to best remember these players as well as how they may either be presented this season or how they progress in their methods. Cirie - Her clip was of her questioning the food showing her as the suspicious and inexperienced woman out of her element. Cirie was a very social player and ultimately shown to be extremely savvy despite her physical limitations. I question this clip and whether Cirie's "out of her element" persona will be the bane of her existence this time and never gets to progress to that savvy woman we came to know. Ozzy (Jason and Erik visibly excited) - Ozzy's clip showcased the amazing Ozzy with his tree climbing and swimming. Ozzy had his introduction confessional and clip highlight what a tremendous threat he was. Ozzy, with an opening statement and confessional about him appears favorable; my only concern is that he is being established literally AS the person to beat. Erik (conf) "I know a lot about Ozzy...I think I have what it takes to compete at Ozzy's level" A personal quest for Erik to best Ozzy. Will we see a rivalry in the making. Will Erik's words be foreshadowing or irony? This may have potential story making although his commentary could have been satisfied solely by his beating Ozzy in swimming at the impromptu challenge Ami (Mary with a bit of a grimace) Ami's clip was of her hugging at her family visit which was a slightly suspicious clip. Like Cirie, Ami's clip could have been entirely different. We know Ami did a lot of strategizing and was even portrayed somewhat of a villain so to show such a benign clip makes me question if Ami's stay is of any substance. Couple that with rarely anything else from Ami (including manipulation which was done quite often in her season) has me a bit concerned for her longevity. Jonathan (a nice round of applause with a Thank You from Jonathan) His clip was of a defining moment in his season - the mutiny. Not a surprising clip as this was a moment of high drama that Jonathan always brought to the table. Is it significant for Jonathan this season, i.e. this was not a moment of success for Jonathan but rather his fall from grace? Jonathan got a solid opening confessional and some decent (though low key for Jonathan) airtime. At this juncture, he appears to be somewhat solid for a period of time. Eliza (Natalie smiling) Her clip was of an argument she and Twila had with Twila advising that Eliza has been driving everyone nuts. As with some other clips, why this shown? To demonstrate Eliza's personality less we forget. Will she again "drive everyone crazy?" Despite Eliza not having an opening confessional, she had strong narrator skills although this is not necessarily indicative of longevity. Eliza, like Jonathan gives good commentary and she was central to a later plot as both perpetrator and potential victim. I trust that Eliza will be highlighted despite how long she stays so one must be careful how much to put into strong early presence. James (large cheers from the favorites with a gesture towards Joel) James, like Ozzy, was shown in his physical element and highlighted the amazing strength he has. James appears to have potential storyline in the making with Parvarti and perhaps some rivalry against Joel. My concern with James is his opening confessional was not about himself and his play but rather how those who played before him had an effect on him; that does not strike me as a confessional the editors would use for a potential winner from the favorites side. Joel (conf) "When I saw James come around the corner I got excited.... I think I can take him" Again, as stated another "match up" between a fan and a favorite. Both James and Ozzy received confessionals about them from favorites which made bode well at least in terms of a storyline. Parvarti (with a flirty Thank You Jeff) Parvarti's clip of the hot tub scene with Yul and Ozzy was shown highlighting what was her strength in the Cook Island. Feminine wiles was her game play then and after the show it seemed fairly obvious this will play a big part for her this season. Will this be all that she does or will her "no holds barred" commentary be included this season? What is important now to note with Parvarti is whether she stays true to her comment that she is going to add another dimension OR stick with her tried and true method. We see her revert to her CI ways and may question whether she is all talk OR note that her intention is to improve on her game but certainly not give up on something that worked well for her in the past as well. With her opening confessional, latter confessional and air time including stories surrounding her and involving her, Parvarti does appear to have legs for this season. Yao Man (biggest applause as noted by Jeff) YM's clip was of his finding the hidden idol. What is interesting with this clip (as with some others) is that YM was so much more than just finding that idol. He also strategized and was also shown to be extremely valuable in camp living but his clip was about the luck he has with the idol. Later we see YM comment on the idol he got off the boat and how he hopes he has more idols. Are JFP's words perhaps true? Once the idol is gone, YM will be as well? YM did get an opening confessional with the noted "million dollars included" but other than the scene with JFP, YM was on the fringes of the dynamics. Kathy "I love the Yao Man!" Yao is loved as evidenced by Kathy's commentary. This combined with Jeff's pre show commentary and Yao being all about the idol may be all what YM is about this season Amanda - Her clip showed Amanda strategizing with Courtney and interestingly enough in getting rid of James. Could this be its own foreshadowing since both are on this season? Amanda's clip focused on game play as opposed to a fluff clip which may not be bad for her chances for longevity. However, Amanda was sorely neglected in all other areas. She is part of a foursome yet Parvarti received all the integral parts, she is part of a twosome yet Ozzy garnered more air time. Both James and Amanda had the opportunity to speak about their history and it never came to be. Should Amanda stay for the duration, it certainly appears it may be on the merits or protection of others. I daresay should she win this time around, we would have heard how close she was last time and what she would do to improve her chances. JFP is then introduced with only one clip that could be shown along with a quip from Jeff. The grandmother lie would sum up the person everyone knows best. Tracy (conf) "I wanted to throw up... he's a loser pig" A sentiment thought by many and despite JFP leaving under "sincere" circumstances, he did spread his MO prior to his leaving The Theme(s) What has already been discussed in this thread may have been ultimately summed up by one of the fans: Alexis (conf) "I think the fans vs. favorites is the ultimate challenge because we have the favorites who obviously played the game before so they have the experience but at the same time you have us and we know their game, we not only know their strengths but their weaknesses too so I think that puts us at a huge advantage" How the end result comes down remains to be seen, however the "ultimate" ending would be a fan against a favorite due to the enormous storyline potential. Alexis is the one chosen to voice this very big story which may be suggestive on her longevity. Since the fans did not get to see Tribal Council, we only touched on them in the first episode (and not even enough for any merit) but it should be considered that Alexis was given a very big confessional even if she was not one of the fans to be really thrown in our faces. Was it simply a great commentary? Perhaps. I am sure this was spoken by some others as well. The "bottom line" is that Alexis was chosen by the editors to encompass a huge thematic approach to this season and this cannot be ignored. The Impromptu Challenge Of note is the race across the water which showed Ozzy and Erik leading the pack (more to signify this rivalry?) Erik (conf) "I beat Ozzy.... I wanted to show him what I'm made of" The second time we hear from Erik but solely about his quest to "beat" Ozzy rather than the larger vision of winning Survivor? YM and JFP get into a bit of a tangle to grab the immunity idol. YM (conf) "All these idols seem to like me and I hope there will be other idols along the way..." (More connection just to idols, thus far, this is literally being down shoved the viewers throats) Kathy advises she has no idea what is going on and YM instructs her to grab the other idol. Kathy (conf) "Thanks to YM, I have immunity to the very first TC we go to so I'm like safe!" (May be an interesting dynamic when the fans go to the first TC) JFP (conf) "Trust me, YM isn't America's hero.... as soon as that idol's gone, see you later bucko!" (Foreshadowing?) The Fans Camp A brief introduction was given to us to help set up the dynamic since they did not play a big part later on due to the fact they did not have to go to Tribal Council. Of note: Jason mentions this is all of their dream and "we definitely want to kick the favorites a--" The ultimate goal is to win Survivor not "just" kick the favorites butts; it will be interesting to see how the ultimate winner is portrayed - the person shown to look beyond just "proving something" and/or the person whose ultimate goal is just to win this game and utilizes the tools to do so while playing against the seasoned players. Tracy brings up JFP with a gagging expression with: "I'm a fan, I'm not just somebody who said oh let's go on Survivor" (Establishing her character a bit more for us) "We are out for blood" Yet another mention that the goal is to best the favorites Alexis heard stating to the group: "They all think they know how to do it and that the way they did it was right" (Tie to a major theme and this coming from the person who established the theme earlier.) Chet to the group: "We know how they play; they don't know a damn thing about us" (Tie to major theme) Mikey proceeds to provide humorous descriptions to some of his tribe (Kathy/big bird, southern princess/Alexis, incredible hulk/Joel, Jon Bon Jovi/Jason, queer eye for straight guy/Chet) "This is gonna be a crew, I'm telling you" (Mikey may provide good narration but this was strictly narrative with no manipulation) Kathy and Chet then shown in a very awkward conversation with Kathy discussing Chet's homosexuality. Clearly, the editors are establishing Kathy as stumbling around in any social atmosphere which was verified and validated by other tribe members as we hear Alexis confess that Kathy puts her foot in her mouth. With Kathy holding that precious immunity and the set up around her, there does appear to be a story in the making when the fans must go to the first Tribal Council as noted by Jason who advised that everyone was worried when the "crazy lady" found the idol as the consensus was she would be first to go. For that consensus to be reached that quickly (as shown to the viewers as opposed to the actual timing of the confessional) would show that Kathy is a caricature and one that is in grave danger unless something would save her. The Favorites Camp The group begin to work at once and we see a very tight unit in the business of setting up camp Ozzy (conf) "The fact that we played this game before, I think that is our biggest advantage; it is an expectation we got to live up to" (An interesting commentary in that it is very contradictory to the fans way of thought. Ozzy hones in on the theme as well but that playing the game before is the advantage as opposed to any disadvantage in that the fans will know their game. "Expectation" is brought up; will that be something that Ozzy is so focused upon? It certainly appears there are many expectations of Ozzy as well.) We hear Eliza talk to the group about establishing right then and there that "we are going to kick their a--es" (Like some fans, this "goal" may be more important to some favorites than the ultimate goal that they win the season) JFP then tells us how life is different for him now. James then tell us in a confessional he definitely appreciates the hard work he sees from his tribe members this time around. Ozzy shown already providing as James goes on to say how "the favorites should definitely have the advantage" Themes Advantage vs. Disadvantage (experience of game or knowledge of players) Past Mistakes vs. Adjustment of Game Play (for the Favorites) Goals Kicking the Favorites Butts vs. Proving Oneself Parvarti (conf) "Everyone is already bonding together. I have to win this time; this is my second time. I'm not coming back here to starve and be miserable. I was the flirt... there was no other dimension to me..." (James and Parvart "connecting") "Outwardly I am still gonna be flirty, I'm playing smart this time like I wanna make the right alliances... this time there is only one guy to flirt with, the big guy, James" Another good confessional from Parvarti. Dimension is a word used quite often in this thread. Although the remainder of the episode devoted itself to showing Parvarti exactly how we remembered her, again, it remains to be seen if this perhaps is part of a ruse to further herself in the game among other strategies or she is pigeon holing herself back into a familiar corner. The audience will either knowingly laugh at her not doing anything other than the norm or get to see her words come to fruition James immediately falls for her charms thus establishing another storyline in progression. Ozzy and Amanda are shown that evening with Ozzy advising her that he will be honest with her and if she saw his season that when he sticks to something he will do it. Amanda proceeds to tell Ozzy that he is a favorite player of hers (more expectation?) (another storyline whose foundation is being cemented) Eliza (conf) "I'd say I have a pretty keen power of observation... Amanda and Ozzy have this rapport.. and ever since we got here, Parvarti hasn't been able to take her hands or eyes off of James. She definitely will have him wrapped around her finger so I definitely think there could be romance bubbling with Parvarti and James and Amanda and Ozzy so that makes all four of them very dangerous" (Good narrative skills from Eliza which is of no big surprise and Eliza is only furthering a storyline that not only introduces a romantic aspect but Eliza is advising this could also prove dangerous) At the fans camp, things do not look very well as Jason narrates that things didn't go as planned as we see that their shelter is unsatisfactory and the rain is causing great difficulty. Kathy is shown extremely emotional over the events and advising "this sucks" As the camera shows Parvarti/James and Ozzy/Amanda bonding further in the morning, Jonathan, Ami, Eliza and YM are already firming up an alliance. Eliza (conf) "....the four of us are a tight alliance but the problem is there feels like there is another foursome and that is Amanda/Ozzy and Parvarti. We're very worried about that foursome and worried they were trying to pull in Fairplay and Cirie" The group is shown again with Eliza advising they need a fifth and Jonathan suggesting it be Fairplay. Although Eliza was not fond of that idea, the others were. JFP is then shown with Parvarti and Ozzy with Parvarti advising that "We are voting Eliza out" and then advising JFP who they have for the votes. Ozzy (conf) "We are a little wary of Eliza; just hearing about the way she played the game... she's shifty, crafty. Some of us feel like we can't trust her" (Much like the fans, the favorites also know how their own tribemates played and in this case, may cause an immediate reaction. As we see later on there is definitely a "vibration" for Eliza and Parvarti pitting themselves against each other. Interesting to note that Eliza is deemed shifty by Ozzy while later, Jonathan almost pays Parvarti a compliment by advising she is a threat due to her social skills) Ozzy (conf) "I'm really nervous because Fairplay has his villain persona to live up to so maybe he will betray everyone he can..." At this point in the show, Ozzy has also been a very strong narrator in the immediate dynamics. Couple that with Erik the fan intergrating his story with Ozzy and Ozzy's "interlude" with Amanda as well as Ozzy's own statements that everyone wants to beat him, he appears to be a very strong contender for longevity as there may be a lot progressing through Ozzy. We hear from JFP regarding being approached by Parvarti and Ozzy and then a new meeting with Ami, Jonathan, Eliza and JFP is shown. JFP proceeds to tell them that James/Amanda/Ozzy/Parvarti are locked into an alliance. JFP "They want Eliza gone first" (Jonathan is shown being the receiver of this statement) Jonathan "They want what?" JFP "Eliza gone" (Eliza now shown) JFP "But we need to get rid of Ozzy" (voice over with Jonathan shown) Jonathan "Ozzy or Parvarti" A chorus of Parvarti's chimed in (notably by female voices) Jonathan "If Parvarti's still in she can manipulate crap..." Jonathan (conf) "I think we should take Parvarti out first; I think Parvarti is a much bigger threat, she's a more social player than Ozzy is" Players talked about are often as a good as sign as those who talk. Jonathan, who in his past season was a very important narrator of events is setting some groundwork perhaps with respect to Parvarti and perhaps, by his words, we may just be getting the framework for her playing another dimension. Ozzy has been portrayed already to be a huge threat to this game yet Jonathan in one confessional is reflecting that someone like Parvarti may be even a bigger threat. Jonathan then proceeds in this confessional that JFP is someone you'd want to take all the way to the end. Jonathan "They think that you are with them?" JFP "Yeah" Whereupon, JFP proceeds to advise the audience that he is essentially playing both ends of the stick: "Have you ever watched this show before?" YM again proves why he was chosen as a favorite as he makes wine out of water (or rather fire from glass lenses) Eliza (conf) "YM got fire started miraculously; we have fire, we've been eating, we've been drinking... we're ready to kick some butt" Another sentiment of "kicking butt" which, as we know, was ironic at best since they did not, in fact, "kick butt" Eliza has also been a "camp" narrator. The problem with early narrators is that it is hard to discern if they are solely "pre merge" narrators. Many past contestants have been utilized to narrate the tribe and setting dynamics only to leave right around the merge time. (Brandon and Austin come immediately to mind) I would like to think with Eliza as a candidate by Parvarti and her team that Eliza will be around somewhat to parlay this into something worthwhile however, we can't discount the fact that major narrators often are given a lot of air time solely because they provide good commentary BUT can't be utilized in the second half of the game Gone But Not Forgotten Less we forget that there is even another tribe competing against the favorites, we are quickly shown the Fans tribe collecting their tree mail after noting that they are not quite faring as well as the Fans tribe with respect to food, water and, as we already knew, shelter. Mike (conf) "...I think they are chuckling at us like this is piece of cake and they're gonna walk all over us; they are not even looking at us as competitors, that's good, underdog, we'll take that role" (Most definitely an underdog aura presented this episode, a very important episode being the first one which introduces major themes/stories to play out. If this remains prevalent, along with a heavy hand of segregation of fans vs. favorites, it would seem almost too perfect that in the end, a favorite and a fan will square off) The challenge arrival brings some brewing tension as Eliza advises on their shelter and food and "ready to kick some butt" with JFP adding that he gained weight since being there. Joel is doubtful and JFP announces the episode title. Joel "If it is, hey good for them, they can be fat and happy and we can win the challenge" (Obviously foreshadowing and time will tell if so for the remainder of the game as well. Joel may be someone who is around for a good portion as he did receive enough airtime and visual to note his presence. However, he is a humongous threat and there is no doubt he will be targeted unless his tribe or he win an immunity) The challenge commences and in short order, the Fans show the Favorites they are not a group for them to take lightly (notably Jonathan and Eliza with James only suggesting that their group should have the advantage) with Eliza also getting roughed up in the process. A disappointed and "egg on their face" Favorites return to their camp. Jonathan (conf) "We tried hard, lost, no shame in losing. These fans are so enthusiastic. They are playing Survivor, their dream; and they just had more heart out there" Jonathan was shown in his confessional as one of his earlier confessionals so at least we can be assured that not ALL the alliance scrambling and boot candidates happened immediately upon their arrival. With that, Jonathan helped flesh out the theme for this season as well which does beg the question.... is something to prove more intense for the Fans or the Favorites? This was a good confessional for Jonathan also as it tend to soften any arrogance that may have come across from him earlier Ozzy (conf) "The loss is gonna humble us and make us ready to kick a-- in the next one" (A somewhat different approach to the "kick a--" confessional in that the "Favorites" may required to be humbled in order to succeed but this was an insightful comment and continued to help cement Ozzy's potential standing) Cirie (to group) "I may not do as well as Ozzy but I think I can did pretty good today" (A bit of the social game being played by Cirie and then her confessional) JFP shown stating to the group he is good for moral with his confessional then shown. Cirie (conf) "We're going to TC and oh gosh I do not have a plan at all, I have no idea what I am gonna do right now. I don't really trust any of these people (Jonathan shown in the water with group) I don't care I'll get rid of anybody as long as it ain't me" (Our first showing of Cirie and while the "Sandra" strategy may provide useful for awhile, her lack of showing anywhere else is a bit of a disappointment and does not bode well for her at end game. If her edit does not improve, Cirie may not see the success she did in her season) JFP (conf) "Right now I could go either way and totally change the game in two different directions. Two groups I'm playing are the four of YM, Eliza, Jonathan, Ami..." Ami, Jonathan and JFP then shown with Ami asking if they all know what they are doing tonight - Parvarti right? and then you have the alliance of Ozzy, James, Parvarti and Amanda; they're after Eliza so we'll see" We then see Parvarti and JFP together interspersed with JFP's emotional confessional about his unborn daughter Parvarti attempts to capitalize on JFP's discussion of just going home to throw "Eliza off the scent" Parvarti (conf) "I don't know, it might just be too crazy but I came up with this little plan to distract YM, Eliza, Jonathan, Ami into voting for Fairplay and we're all voting for Eliza just because I don't want Eliza turning around and trying to snake me" (which, was what apparently was to happen with a lovely visual of a snake to follow. Also of note is that Cirie is not mentioned whatsoever which is a bit hard to swallow seeing that both groups were aware that more numbers is better for them) JFP and Ami converse with JFP telling Ami about his wanting to go. Ami does ask if there is anything she can say to change his mind and he apologizes but no. Ami (conf) "Fairplay is a loose cannon; Fairplay said to me he wanted to go home... you just don't know whatever he means" (Ami is then shown telling the others of JFP's wish but noting that it could be a ruse) "Just gotta make sure he doesn't do anything crazy; I'm a little worried that he's going to come together with James, Ozzy, Amanda and Parvarti; all I know is that tonight Tribal Council is gonna be crazy because if I know JFP he's gonna stir things up" It was at least nice to see Ami show herself and with insight on what could be going on although Ami was extremely low key this particular episode. However, considering Eliza is the main target, Ami may be safe for a bit. Her poor showing this episode and not being one of the opening show confessionals tends to make me question how far she does get in this game though. It will be interesting to see if she does, in fact, broach a female alliance with Cirie, Parvarti and Amanda (Eliza already in her corner) selling the argument that the men will ultimately win the challenges and boot them. My concern is that the "romance" of the two pairs seems to be a story in the making and it doesn't seem likely Parvarti wants to team up with Eliza or risk having James and Ozzy not around to "protect" her. There is room for improvement despite first episode showing but at first take we really do not have anything from Ami that encompasses what this season is potentially about Tribal Council JFP receives the first question about camp and his reply of "cake" is met with a nod by Jonathan and that the only problem they may have had was "overconfidence" Eliza is asked about past reputations to which she replies it is definitely a factor in this game and that it factors on how they play the game and how people vote. JFP was then focused upon as the person with the most notable reputation to which he responded that he believes the others were surprised at the real JFP and that right now only his child is going through his head. Jeff is not quite convinced and questions if he wants to go home or had a bad afternoon and wants to recover YM is questioned on why he is smiling to which he responds that he is questioning JFP Ozzy is asked if this is more about that JFP can't hack it the second time around and Ozzy does not believe that is so and JFP defends himself to Jeff Jonathan is asked to comment about JFP and what he is doing as everyone knows he pulls scams. Jonathan states that he thinks JFP is asking "us" to vote for him. "Somebody has to go home, somebody wants to go home, he's going home" Jeff argues on JFP's past reputation and also if this is a quit. Eliza does not believe this is a quit and she still has doubts that he might not even go home The first Favorites TC and combined with absent first confessionals, Ami and Amanda were completely left out of both loops. Jonathan and YM are the only two shown, both voting for JFP. A funny and somewhat endearing send off with Jeff and JFP hugging goodbye and JFP telling Jeff to be nice to the others. YM is instructed to leave the idol as it has no use anymore A fine episode although I felt the Fans were a bit lacking in showing despite their not attending TC, we have established a sound thematic approach which was summed up succinctly by Alexis. Jason received some fine narrative time and Kathy was indeed embellished for "characterization" Sound bites from Erik and Tracy were notable but Erik's revolved around Ozzy and Tracy seemed very generic in nature. The others require a bit more fleshing out. As for the favorites, those with opening confessionals should be looked at for potential end game and with that, what their confessionals entailed. Jonathan, Parvarti, YM and Ozzy had more substantial confessionals over James and Cirie but one can't discount any opening confessional. Romance is in the making and cross storylines of some fans vs. some favorites also seem to be brewing as subplots. At this juncture, I could venture that there are more candidates from the favorites side at end game however, even with a smaller pool of candidates from the fans, it only takes one to win.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

suzzee 1125 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 02-12-08, 07:39 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Episode 1 Editing" Awesome as usual VS, I've been a reader of this thread for many seasons & enjoy and marvel at yours and others insights. You guys probably make Burnett grind his teeth at all his editing secrets being exposed Nice job. As for the shomances, I wonder if Pavrati had decided to just ride James till he drops, it's a strategy. She did say she was determined to win and would do anything, does that include taking the James train to the end of the line?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mimo 485 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 02-12-08, 11:25 PM (EST) 14. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Well, it's hard to believe that another season has started. I love the insight on this thread. VS, Michel, FloPo, and the rest of the gang--just have to say you guys really add to the joy of watching! A couple of things caught my attention on the first episode. It seems almost as if we have a pairing of certain fans vs. favorites. The obvious ones are: James vs. Joel -- both play the strong guys Ozzy vs. Erik -- mainly from Erik's commentary that his objective is to beat Ozzy and Erik's excitement at getting to the beach before Ozzy Yauman & Kathy --Kathy was the most excited to see Yau show up. Yau pretty much gave Kathy the idol To this I would add Fairplay vs. Tracy -- Tracy provided the reaction to Fairplay's arrival and continued to say negative things about him throughout the episode Cirie & Mikey -- only due to Mikey's comment that he's never been camping, which seems to match Cirie's couch potato persona. (Then again, maybe Mikey could be considered Jonathan's alter ego in that they have a similar professional background.) I'm wondering if maybe the progress of each fan would be matched up against that of their paired favorite (which wouldn't bode well for Tracy!!) Any other potential matches that I've missed? Another thing that caught my attention was how the music changed when they introduced Yauman (who according to Jeff got the biggest round of applause.) The music definitely became happier when Yau came out. It also changed when Fairplay was introduced, although it was a bit more camp than happy. Any thoughts from our music experts?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-13-08, 10:52 AM (EST) 15. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" suzzee - I am happy that you have enjoyed this thread over the seasons and I hope you plan on being a weekly contributor as well. Regarding the romances with the favorites, I certainly agree that Parvarti may be taking James on a wild ride (notwithstanding that I think Parvarti also finds him attractive lol) but the fact we heard her say she will continue to flirt but add a dimension to herself I would like to believe her statements were introduced that way for a reason. Whether it plays out as irony or fact remains to be seen but confessionals and such are edited for a reason so it must be kept in mind that Parvarti was shown telling the viewers this for a purpose; it was not a throwaway comment. mimo - Glad to see you again! Your pairings are definitely on target as casting seemed to make a conscious effort to create a lot of parallels between both tribes. I was more inclined to lean towards Mikey being Jonathan’s counterpart but understand your thoughts on Cirie. I’m very happy that you paid attention to the musical changes since we lost apple somewhere and I believe 100% that the music and visuals play an integral part in how the season unfolds even if it is only in the immediate episode. I hope you listen some more and give us your thoughts on the musical progression as it would be wonderful to see here again. Pepe - as always, a pleasure. Your feelings regarding Parvarti are probably not uncommon as there were strong opinions about her in Cook Islands and I’m sure they carried over to this season especially in light of her “showing” Viewers are meant to be subjective and the editing intends for this happen. Quite often I have to remind myself that those at end game are not necessarily those we like but rather from which the story revolves and/or evolves(whether individually, through their tribe or alliance or a central theme) Alas, a crucial element to this season is “past mistakes” and Parvarti did touch on this as well as the broader theme that Alexis touched upon that “they know their game.” That is quite an interesting connection. I agree that we have only touched upon the fan dynamic since not only do we know the favorites but they went to Tribal Council which would give them more air time out of necessity. You are absolutely correct that the first episode sets the tone but we will see a clearer picture in coming episodes (ah yes, fleshing out is a favorite of mine lol) The merger episode is also important to me as is the recap (if there is one) and the family visit and pecking order challenges as well. FP - I am very happy to see you and hope we see more of you this season? The theme was most definitely hammered home that I would be hard pressed to believe that this is not the core for this season. Indeed, Kathy is a big distraction and there are hints that others are as well. Considering Jeff’s comments about Kathy and her persona thus far, she will be utilized by the camera even if her stay is short. Jason was indeed a huge narrator which one then must question how he fares which I touched upon on my post. While Mikey did not have a big impact, certainly his confessional describing his tribe was memorable but that makes for good television. His other confessional regarding “underdog” was a bit more “fleshy” but then again, it summed up the circumstances and not necessarily had anything to do with Mikey per se. One reason I love making this thread is how we see different viewpoints on how the characters are received. Pepe notes Parvarti and you note your surprise over Jonathan’s reception. I remember in one season I spoke with apple (I believe) about Tom Westman and told apple that it is very difficult to separate what the editors try to make us feel and how we do feel about the players and their strategy. Rupert is the perfect example. Your perception that Jonathan makes game mistakes vs. serious gamer is not mutually exclusive. The editing from Cook Islands and bits presently are shown that Jonathan IS a serious “gamer” BUT that does not necessarily make someone a GOOD gamer so your observation and others observations both can be correct. This may then revert back to “past mistakes” (ah ha!) I see your love for Ozzy continues I also believe he had a very strong first episode. The romance could easily be a distraction and good television. At this juncture, I do believe Ozzy has “legs” but your assessment that he could be overcompensating for his lack of socialization last time may indeed be his downfall. With respect to Parvarti, at this time, we shouldn’t know about her other than what she advised us. What IS being told to us is the premise that she plans on adding a new dimension to her game. We saw her embark on her femme fatale skills right away so there is a need for an outcome however which does intend to signal she will (at the very least) have a meaty role. girlinglasses - you are very kind and I’m sure I speak for everyone to “chime” away! There is no stealing here lol - only imaginative minds that often think alike While my thoughts on Jonathan’s end game are still questionable there was enough there that I don’t foresee any immediate danger. The problem with a character like Jonathan is that he will be highlighted regardless of his standing and he is just subtle enough that he avoids a caricature role (these roles tend to set off our radars that they are not at end game) I find it very interesting that you thought that perhaps Jonathan and Parvarti would align considering their rocky past; it would actually be a pleasure to watch but I’m not sure that their respective personalities could ever come to a meeting of the minds but there is always hope that they could put that aside to conduct some business The fan women were quite often a “blur” which doesn’t necessarily bode well for end game but in editing theory we need to wait a bit as a editing non starter could slowly build and that is always promising michel - thank you for starting us off and welcome back after what seems to be another season that just ended I won’t delve too much into your confessionals and communication quotes since I probably already repeated them. With respect to the players, I find your assessment of Erik interesting for “villain” purposes and I will keep that in the back of my mind. I definitely saw the connection of rivalry with Ozzy and that may further play out or it may have been the set up for the immediate payoff when he beat Ozzy in the water. Since most of his air time was devoted to such limited thinking, his role does indeed seem limited for the ongoing story. Like Erik, Joel’s storyline seems tied to James and I agree that his role of strength is polarized. Logically speaking, who would want to keep him at the merger anyway? We saw him often enough but there was no depth. James was fleshed out more on China; I agree that any role he plays may just be one to win challenges for them and go head to head with James. Obviously I agree with your observations on how Alexis contributed to the story despite that we don’t really know anything about her yet and I won’t bore everyone by repeating myself regarding her statement and the thematic approach. Your ideas about potential alliances and such with respect to Mikey’s talk is interesting and one to view as time goes on. As you know, I count on everyone else here for their ideas as I tend not to delve too deeply in those areas and I will be looking forward to seeing how your ideas play out Cirie most definitely could be very valuable or she may have no bearing. I’m not entirely sure not showing her affected the suspense (unless you mean solely showing her with her thoughts on voting as you do go on to mention that she was not the narrator we know) as Cirie makes for great confessionals and conversation; I would have liked to hear more from her and my concern is that she was almost an afterthought by everyone else as well. There may be something that we are not shown though so I hold her chances in reserve but on paper it doesn’t bode as well for Cirie this season (although UTR - the UTR I utilize fits Cirie to a “T”) Our thoughts are fairly cohesive on the other players although I’m not sure I would equate Jonathan as the villain to Parvarti’s showing but as I have always maintained, the beauty of this show is the different perceptions viewers have however I do believe that Jonathan’s statement about Parvarti is perhaps helping to lend credence that Parvarti is to be taken seriously; Jonathan could have easily stated she is lazy and a flirt (which would essentially not get any argument from the audience) but it was stated she was a threat and her social skills are threatening. This softer touch was a bit manipulated; I’m sure Jonathan may have had some harsher things to say. With Exile Island now a part of the story this week, the editing on those exiled should be interesting to watch and it will need to be determined what and who is being shown solely because “a rose is a rose” or if manipulation plays a hand. The romance of the two sets of favorites was highlighted for this week as well -what do we see beneath this distraction or is it a distraction? I absolutely loved reading what everyone had to say; thank you for making my post Survivor viewing such a pleasure.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-13-08, 05:37 PM (EST) 16. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Dear VS: I love reading your thoughts on what others have captured as well. I wanted to post something in regard to my initial assessment of Ozzy and Amanda. While at first it raised alarms for me, as I saw that it could be a distraction for him...yet as time goes by, I am feeling a bit more positive about it...I'm glad it's with Amanda and not Parvati, as I do think Amanda is a serious game player. After all, look who she latched onto in China, the winner, Todd. Amanda was shown scheming and directing alot in China, perhaps she could be an asset to Ozzy, and vice versa. But as always, I can't help think that this change of heart could just be wishful thinking on my part. Looking really forward to some Valentine's Day Survivor love!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-13-08, 06:59 PM (EST) 17. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" LAST EDITED ON 02-13-08 AT 07:05 PM (EST) Hello Veruca, It's nice to see and read from you, FP, Pepe, mimo and the new participants like girlinglasses and suzee. VS, I agree that noting the opening confessionals from the favorites could be key. You noted that Ami, Eliza and Amanda didn't have any. How much of an impact will that have on their end game chances? It certainly puts all 3 in doubt even if they're on opposite alliances. I will keep your Themes and Goal in mind: >"Themes >Advantage vs. Disadvantage >(experience of game or knowledge of players) >Past Mistakes vs. Adjustment of >Game Play (for the Favorites) >Goals >Kicking the Favorites Butts vs. >Proving Oneself." With Exile Island putting members of each tribe together, maybe we should look for which pairing will work on bridging the gap? I see we agree on many players. For Cirie, I meant that, if we had seen her talking with James, Ozzy, Jonathan or Yau Man, we'd already have a clear idea of which favorite will exit next. Right now, we are uncertain of which alliance can count on her until the next IC loss. I'm glad that I intrigued you with my impressions of Erik. Wasn't Jason supposed to be Ozzy's rival? That's part of the reason why Erik's confessionals seemed significant. Villains come from rivalries. Which brings me to Jonathan vs Parvati. I see that Pepe and FP don't share my views either and I appreciate the challenge. Like I said, it will take time to see exactly what is Jonathan's role, so I could be off track. I do know that, if they had wanted to, the editors could have found a clip of Parvati saying she doesn't like or trust Jonathan. I found it interesting that Jonathan was shown as the aggressor, firing the first shot on both Parvati and Ozzy with no edited provocation.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-14-08, 02:07 AM (EST) 18. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Hi I'm Mocha, long time reader and admirer of all of your insight. I'm not looking at the spoilers this time so I thought I could add some untainted insight. I agree with mimo, the parallels really pop out this time - this definitely indicates alliances, rivalries and story lines which could last well into the game. To summarize and add some of my own insight based on the first episode and Jeff Probst Scouting/1st impression reports from Veruca's 1st entry: Physical threats (P) Social threats (S) Immunity idol threats (I) Villan (V) Attitue/Annoying(A) out early or end game goat JFP(V,A) vs. Yauman(I)/Tracey(A)/Cirie(S) Yauman(I) + Kathy(A,I) Ozzy(P) vs. Jason(P)/Erik(P) Ozzy(P) + Amanda(S) + James(P) + Pavarti(A,S) James(P) Vs. Joel(P) Pavarti (A,S) vs. Eliza(V,A,S), Jonathon(A,V,S) Jonathon (A,V,S) + Eliza(V,A,S) + Ami(V,S) + Yauman(I) Mikey(S) = Jonathon(A,V,S) or Cirie(S) Natalie (A) Alexis (S) Chet (S) Mary - strangely no impression from the 1st show nor Jeff. The Favs seem to have a more balanced alliance Physical & Social(Ozzy/Amanda/James/Pavarti) vs. Social&Immunity(Jonathon/Elize/Ami/Yauman). On paper and barring twists the more balanced alliance should win out, but it may come down to who Cirie sides with. I also agree Ozzy and James should be in the game a long time because of the romance, alliance, rivalries that revolve around them, although they are huge targets at merge because the physical threats they represent. Just a thought on different vs. new strategies. Seemed like JFP was portrayed as a very different player even though the old Fairplay was wanted by both alliances. He asked to be voted out and he was. Perhaps it is the survivor who is true to his old strategy that will win this game. This is where Cirie comes to mind - at the beginning of her season of the game she was not in the winning alliance and had to wait and hope she didn't get voted out. Her game, at least to the viewers, didn't kick in gear until much later in the game. MOCHA   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-15-08, 06:09 PM (EST) 19. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" LAST EDITED ON 02-15-08 AT 06:22 PM (EST) hi all! i am another long time reader/admirer of this forum. i think i actually like reading the analysis of survivor even more than watching the actual show. (side note: i also caught the first episodes of "temptation island 2" or whatever it is called (horrible show!) and i spent the whole time wondering "why is he/she doing that? what are the editors trying to show/tell us?" no clue. i have obviously developed a very high standard for reality show editing thanks to the analysis i have read here. anyway, enough wasting time on that! first i wanted to say to mocha that i think an (S) should be added to yaumans name. as to last night's awesome ep, here are my prelim thoughts: first, ozzy was very cute confessing his admiration of amanda, we are to like these two and pull for them. he was also shown to be very aware of strategy and i think his journey will be to prove his strategic abilities and win the whole game. to be clear here, i dont say this because i am a huge ozzy fan, i say it because of the editing. second, i think it is eliza that is preceded in the opening credits by a snake? i feel that is a very strong connection, being that it will show during every ep. she has to be a super-villian and likely there for a while, probably to the jury, for them to put such a heavy-handed effort into her. watch for her to make some extreme snakey moves during her stay. but i dont think she will make final three because her villian edit is too strong, we would never think she could win after seeing her as a snake every week. another very heavy edit i noticed was that there was a marked change of music going from fan beach to fav beach at one point. nothing subtle about it and i definitely got the have/have not vibe of a couple of seasons ago. thoughts on characters: chet was the star of the show, in a bad way. he was shown as stupid, slow, lacking heart and not worthy of even being there. even his dive into the water was terribly awkward and the return to the beach, come on! when he talks to the camera he looks tired, old and used up. this may not be the editing, though! mikeys TC vote speech totally summed up his character right now. also, his challenge performance really reminded me of courtney's machete moment from last season, but she was a much more entertaining character, he is not at all. where does chets edit go from here? we are definitely being led to want to vote him off ourselves. heck, we could even forgive the fans for throwing a challenge to get rid of him! (not us, of course, just the viewers) look for him and kathy to be highlighted during the fans next TC. cue major rivalry between mikey b and joel. sorry mikey, but the hulk looks like a player: his story is that he looks like a dumb thug, but is a strategic surprise. he is shown thinking way ahead in his prelim move against mikey. he snapped at kathy early on but had no reservations aligning with her. he was shown voting for tracey, and he can say that he did not vote against mary. (it seems to me that we are not always shown who votes how, so this info is meant to be seen. how did others who were with mikey vote?) joel has long legs with his james rivalry, his mikey rivalry, and his role as strategy master. i predict he is going to be around for a while, his team will need him anyway. i see erik as joels second leutinent of strategy. joel went right to him, and i am guessing that joel would not have picked erik first unless erik had demonstrated his strategic acumen but we werent shown. remember, jeff aludes to erik getting played, maybe it is joel who does it. jason, i think, was shown as a wide-eyed lover of the game and the experience, he was excited about going to TC! he does not come across as a strong game-player, but his enthusiasm is fun to watch. maybe this is the beginning of his edit, "enthusiastic kid from the beginning, how will he hold out? fall apart? retain his enthusiasm to the end?" will there be a big contrast in his confession another time when he goes to tribal? kathy is not only crazy, she came across as not smart at all in her interaction with cerie, who had to keep her focused alot. i wonder if the favs will continue to send kathy to EI whenever possible: if she and a fav found the idol there is no doubt in my mind that any of the favs would be able to assume possesion of it from this crazy, over-awed and under-brained fan. i really felt sorry for mary, blindsided through no action of her own. i also want to note that i was left with the impression that chet and kathy are not real fans and mikey and joel are. tracey came across as intolerant and over-reactive in the "not in MY cave" scene. Jason showed no tact, he obviously had a very low opinion of the three elders. although, tracey is not really on the same level as the other two, she is strong, smart, and has building skills. i really loved this intro to the fan tribe. i felt that i was really shown the dynamics of much of the tribe and the character of many of the players in a remarkably short viewing time, congrats to the editors, they did a fantastic job! the fire making was really interesting: you have to know that over half of the tribe has spent considerable time at home making fire like this. i think that is why we saw the weird "fast stroke" technique and why the guys spent so much time (and flint) before they would let someone else try: they just knew they could do it at home! and then when the fire was built we were shown jubilation. the scene was really strong. maybe we are seeing the development of a theme: a contrast between the enthusatic fans and the take-it-all-for-granted favs. lets talk about the challenge. the favs puzzle team absolutely ruled, didnt they? we are shown the superior intellect of these three. it was a walk in the park for them, an "ozzy level" performance. one thing that i really noticed during this challenge was how we were shown the contestants running across the lily pads. this speaks to athletic ability or lack there of, so i think this editing was important. these displays were totally optional for the editors and we should be able to analyze them for "manipulation". if the camera cut away as someone started across the lily pads we have to assume that they fell soon after and we were not shown that. with the lily pads we all expect ozzy to run on water, but i seemed to see jonathon go quite far and amanda stumble early. my co-worker even remarked on jonathons ability, and she is not a fan, so this edit was very effective and may show a beginning of a new direction for jonathons edit. amanda being shown stumbling must also be significant for it to be shown, does she fall apart physically after back-to-back survivor stints? i anticipate that we will see team mates remarking on the physical toll on her and this is just the first hint of her "running out of gas" story. and, of course, the rivalry between ozzy and jason was highlighted very strongly here again, look for that to continue. finally, it seemed to me that as jeff intro'd the challenge we were shown the teams for each task on the fan tribe. if i am right that seems really odd...it is very unlikely that they were standing in those groupings during jeffs speech and they did not win the challenge. wow, i have never posted before because i felt that i had nothing to add, but this is way easier than i thought! i hope to rewatch the episode for a more in-depth analysis. before i forget, VS what IS your definition of a UTR player? laura um...this should really be the start of a "episode 2 editing thoughts" thread, is there any way to change that?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

renila 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-16-08, 07:38 PM (EST) 20. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Hi all -- Long time lurker here & big fan of you All-Star edit readers -- so I guess I'm down with the theme. Gonna dip my toe in and not try exhaustive analysis Just caught up with the first two episodes after downloading on my Mac. Don't know if anybody caught this already, but in both instances when Jonathan & Ozzy talk about wanting Fairplay to make up a fifth -- neither of those sentences are completely on camera. Both are cut and spliced with V.O. Especially with Ozzy -- the cut-off is so abrupt, I want to believe he really said "or Cirie." In any event, it's definitely possible that Cirie was much more at the center of things than the editors wanted us to know. Maybe to keep suspense up as to her leanings? Or? She was pretty noncommital with Jonathan -- they would work together "down the road." Is her key alliance one we're not seeing? She was certainly comfortable enough to volunteer to go to Exile Island. Also, as I watched Epi. 2, I had a very loud VerucaSalt buzzing in my head saying, "alliances revealed do not succeed." I think the couples alliance is much more two-twosomes that one foursome. In any event, the girls have picked the two most-loyal most-athletic least-strategic guys on the Faves tribe -- talk about perfect cover post-merge. Has there ever been a challenge whore/perfect goat before? 'Cause Joel is shaping up to be one. He's outthinking himself and setting himself to be hated if he blindsides like this all the time. He so wants to be in control, that he doesn't do what's best for the tribe -- Chet is clearly overmatched in challenges and such a liability -- and they won't be able to sit out Kathy next round. By the way, I never saw Vanuatu, so I didn't know who Ami was -- and I still don't. She's definitely on my "no" list -- or she would be if I could point her out in a lineup.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-16-08, 08:41 PM (EST) 21. "Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-16-08 AT 09:00 PM (EST) First, I wanted to welcome our new posters, Mocha, b1whois and renila. Interesting posts. To answer b1whois' question: For many, UTR means that a player is hidden from the cameras. (I call those players Tourists). For us, UTR is someone who isn't a target to the other players. They aren't necessarily quiet players as Jenna and Sandra both won by being UTR. They were simply the last person the others thought would win so their opponents always thought there'd be time to vote them out later. To renila who wondered about a combination challenge whore/perfect goat combo, I can only see Matt in Amazon if the guy hadn't decided to throw so many challenges. The problem with that combo is that the winner wants to bring the goat but with a challenge whore, you have to consider he could win the final immunity. Anyway, if you read my post, you'll see I have doubts whether Joel can last that far! On to my impressions: The recap had an interesting new scene when we saw Airai’s shelter collapsing during the night. It was a sign of trouble ahead for the inexperienced team. The episode started off in Malakal, where we learned that Ozzy caught a fish with his bare hands on the walk back from tribal council. Eliza had the first confessional as the tribe sat to eat the fish: “We had tribal council tonight and Johnny Fairplay asked us to vote him off. I kept thinking that something’s gonna change, something’s gonna come up, something terrible and I was gonna be the one that ended up going home first. But he was serious and we honored his request.” Jonathan had a confessional about Fairplay’s weird elimination during the opening sequence : “I was not pleased when Johnny pulled this because it screwed up my plans but, you know what, everybody knows that, if we continue doing what we’re doing, we should be able to win. I figured that everybody’s been out here 30, 33, 39 days, something like that, times 9 that’s basically a year’s worth of experience. We just feel confident that we can be in there and beat these guys at almost any challenge.” The second scene opened in Airai: Alexis had the first confessional for the Fans who were still struggling with the organization of their camp: “It’s day 4 and we’re in a bad place right now: We need to fix our shelter. We haven’t had any water. Everyone is tired, everyone is hungry. But, in the challenge yesterday, we beat the Favorites and we won immunity and along with immunity we also won flint and flint is fire, so we’re golden.” She thought that, as soon as she struck the flint, the fire would light up immediately but we saw it took a lot more effort. Joel soon went to work on the fire himself: “We gotta make fire. I don’t care how much we have.” Kathleen was with Chet and Tracy while Joel struggled with the flint. She had a confessional: “The boys are still back there, trying to start a fire. They’re all chopping away but we got Nothing!! Number one priority for me is shelter because, pretty much every night, it rains. What is the problem? I don’t understand.” Joel was immediately shown on screen with the editors beeping out an expletive. He added: “They’re talking all the time and not working.” After being unsuccessful, we heard Joel yelling at Kathleen: “I just spent half an hour trying to make fire. All you do is run your mouth.” Interestingly, Alexis was shown in close-up during that confrontation between Joel and Kathleen as we heard Mikey commenting: “Oh, it’s so much drama.” We saw the tribe’s division as the three older players started working on their own. Kathleen, crying, told us her feelings: “Tracy, Chet and myself, have pretty much been shunned from the rest of the tribe. And you can’t fight 7 against 3. It just makes you relive things in your life, like high school whatever, when you didn’t fit in and you were kind of outcast. It just kinda brings it all back.” Jason was then seen cleaning out the cave that Kathleen and Tracy intended to use as shelter. Jason dismissed them by saying: “This is my habitat tonight.” Jason then told us: “Tracy, Kathy and Chet, I don’t think accomplished a single productive thing all day long. And I just don’t want to be around them so I told them straight up, I don’t want you sleeping in the cave.” That got a comment from Tracy: “I’m not gonna fight with these kids…they hate us.” After Airai’s drama, we were back to Malakal with some caribean music. Things were going well for our Favorites! Ozzy was fishing and Yau Man was tending fire. Jonathan had another confessional: “We were quite disorganized in the last challenge so we’re going to try to get better today. We’re hoping the Fans have slept poorly and are still way behind us in the camp curve. We’re doing great, honestly.” Having brought back a huge clam, Ozzy had a confessional: “I’m starting to become really attracted to Amanda. She is so cute, I mean she is beautiful. It’s like, Ahhh! We just have to stay apart as long as possible because, if it becomes obvious to the rest of the group, then I’m going to have a giant target on my back.” We had separate shots of Yau Man and Elisa observing the two together. After getting some coconuts with James, Parvati also had a confessional: “I started off flirting and going with James and it was so easy because he is just so cute, you know.” Being asked by Jonathan if it was love, Amanda had a confessional: “I definitely think that James and Parvati have something going on. I always thought that Ozzy was really, really cute so it’s kinda like a couple’s alliance, yeah, but we just have to be careful because I don’t want it to screw up my game.” Amanda and Parvati were then shown in the water with Cirie. Back in Airai, the 3 older players had completed a lean-to shelter to the amazement of Erik. Tracy had a confessional: “Kathy, Chet and myself, we made a new shelter for the three of us, and we’re going to make it our home. The other 7, they came over and asked us to help them build a new shelter. I think I’ve earned a little bit of respect from them. But right now, all I care about is making fire because, if I don’t get some water in me, I’m gonna die.” Finally, it was Mikey and Alexis who managed to make their first fire. The tribe rejoiced and Mary told us how they had become more unified as a tribe. That’s when we saw her starting to flirt with Mikey. Mikey told us: “I’m definitely flirting with Mary, absolutely, she’s a cute girl and I’m having fun with her on the island. She’s a friendly, funny girl to get along with. I want Mary to trust me, and if I can use my flirtatious abilities to get her in my back-pocket, then I’m gonna use it.” Joel quickly noticed this alliance: “Mikey likes how Mary looks. He has maneuvered himself pretty close to her. That’s right out of player school 101. Obviously, I’m gonna keep my eyes on them but my priority right now is to keep my tribe strong. I think the 3 outsiders, Tracy, Chet and Kathy, they’ll be outta here as soon as possible.” The third segment: “Jungle Love”! Cirie told us all about it: “I was awake quite a bit last night and I heard the sounds of Jungle Love, I guess! I think we’ll be receiving birth announcements from Amanda on her little Ozzlets that she’s about to have. And Parvati and James will be at the wedding as soon as this is over. So, it’s a little more than just alliances with those guys. That’s what makes it scary…The two couples separate don’t really bother me but the 4 of them together poses a problem. I don’t know just yet how I’m gonna dismantle that foursome. (Laughing) but I’m gonna try.” Then, Cirie sat at the fire with Jonathan. Jonathan had this confessional: “It’s silly, you know. Go get a hotel room. You got to take one step back and think there might be somebody awake. We are sleeping together in a cave, you know.” Jonathan told Cirie it was stupid and that he was afraid of Parvati, James and Amanda and Ozzy being totally tight. He proposed that they should work together. Jonathan’s confessional continued: “We have, myself, Eliza, Ami, Yau Man as a core 4 and we needed one more for the lock and that was Cirie. She just told me that she will work with me down the line if we decide to go that far together.” Day 5: The Challenge As a first, one tribe applauded the other for voting out a member. “Good Job” said Kathy when Jeff announced Fairplay was gone. It was interesting to note that Jonathan was focused on when Jeff said the immunity idol gives you power in this game. It could be that he experienced it first hand or that he, himself, gets the idol. I noted how eye contact appeared to have been made between Alexis and a smiling Parvati when Jeff mentioned going to Exile Island. Do they meet there? It was also interesting to note that Parvati was the one to exclaim “OH! GOD!” when Jeff mentioned that there would be a twist revealed after the challenge. From the bottle twist, she certainly knew how bad the news could be. Except for showing Chet’s limitation, the challenge itself had little foreshadowing elements that I noticed. Maybe “Ozzy makes it, Jason doesn’t” could mean something down the line as the first two raced off over the lilly pads. “IT” could represent the jury instead of the platform. With Eliza, Yau Man and Cirie working on the puzzle, the Favorites had 3 very good ones at that job. They easily won the challenge. The Exiled Ones: It wasn’t clear why Kathy was chosen to go to Exile Island but Yau Man seemed to be the one to come up with her name first. I’d suggest he feels he could have an alliance down the road with her so might as well give her another idol. Cirie volunteered to go for the Favorites and they all agreed, a indication of the power Cirie holds in that tribe. Why did she volunteer? Maybe because, as she told Kathy, she was from Exile Island but never got to go on the island. Kathleen had a confessional: “Being on Exile Island with Cirie is a good thing. Watching her from her season, she grew a lot and she’s so sweet, she’s so motherly.” Cirie had a more strategic confessional: “Right now my team is 9 people and there’s Parvati and those guys and there’s Jonathan and those guys and I’m smack-dab in the middle. All I was thinking is, I’m going to Exile Island and God! Please help me find the immunity idol…Looking for the idol was absolute torture…” Cirie wasn’t happy with the wild goose chase! With that, Malakal’s role ended for this episode. What did we learn from them? Very troubling for their future chances, Ami, Yau Man and James had no confessionals. Ami and Yau were practically ignored by the cameras while James, at least, was talked about being dangerous because of his alliance and he was seen with Parvati. With Eliza’s introduction scene last week and her only confessional shown this week, I see the editors portraying Eliza as a very lucky player. Notwithstanding how the vote would have turned out if Fairplay had wanted to stay, she’s the one shown saying she could have already been voted off just as being a continual target meant she could have been voted off early in Vanuatu. With these experienced players, the message would be that her luck can’t last very long this time. Jonathan’s first confessional was directly linked to the main theme of the season. His confidence was rewarded in this episode but his tone showed arrogance regarding how he perceives the competition from the fans. His confessional about Cirie could also be seen as over-confidence on how the votes will turn out because we know Cirie is an independent thinker. Over-confidence being a theme that worked against the Favorites from the start, I'm thinking it will be Jonathan's downfall. Ozzy was presented as being very valuable to his team. From catching a fish with his bare hands, to bringing back a clam and then gaining a lead over Jason, we saw the Cook Islands Ozzy again. What continues to interest me is that we are allowed to hear him express his strategic thoughts. He knows the danger of going out to fish alone so he had many people on the boat accompanying him while Yau was the one left back to take care of the camp by himself. We also know that Ozzy is aware of the dangers of being seen with Amanda. Things are looking good for Ozzy. Amanda had a little more presence in this episode. Not a lot but her story is emerging. What is interesting is that we heard her say that she still has her head in the game. If one of the four love-birds is going to win this game, that’s the kind of confessional we will have to hear. Parvati was seen more than she was heard. Along with Amanda and Ami, we saw how strong a swimmer she is and we were told how dangerous she could be with this group of 4. As with last week when she talked to Fairplay about voting out Eliza, the couples’ alliance is again seen as being led by her as Cirie talked of “Parvati and those guys”. Interesting. An episode that has Cirie as one of its main narrator is always a good episode. The outcome of Malakal’s alliances depend entirely on her. So much so that it’s surprising that no one as seen fit to preempt her and jump over to the other side. For two episodes, we’ve wondered which side Cirie will go and she tells us she doesn’t know yet! One thing to consider is that with the two couples, she would always be the swing vote while with Jonathan’s alliance she can only be the 5th wheel. Hearing her talk of dismantling the foursome could be misdirection for the next episode or so as she could wait until the end to do to one couple what she did to Courtney and Shane. Cirie could be the star again! However, star doesn’t necessarily mean winner because her portrayal while in exile was very cursory. For one thing, we didn’t see any talks of post merge alliances with Kathy. The editors could have cut them out if one of them doesn’t make the merge and Kathy’s chances are weak, but for Cirie it could have implications further down the line. Now, we had to see how Airai would be voting and the fans didn’t disappoint. They returned to camp with Alexis trying to lift team morale with a round of applause for everyone. Jason was heard saying it wasn’t immunity he regretted losing but rather the fishing gear because that “box was a box of gold.” Erik had a confessional: “We lost the challenge today. That’s our first time going to tribal council, that’s a big deal. We’re all really frutrated. It’s likely going to be one of the three older members of the tribe going home, probably Chet because he did really poorly in the challenge. I mean, he was floundering around. ” Mikey confided: “All of us know who we want to go home. That would be Chet. There’s all these variables that come into play which makes it difficult. I’m suggesting splitting our votes, 4 to Chet and 3 to Tracy just in case Kathy found the hidden immunity on Exile Island. If she had it, she could give it to Chet or Tracy. If we vote them, it bounces back to us and then we’re screwed.” Joel wasn’t happy with Mikey taking over the voting decisions. He had a confessional: “Mikey’s throwing out all these different scenarios…He went on and on and on, so much so that it confuses me. My initial thought was ‘Chet, you’re out of here, you’re done.’ But Mikey thinks he’s got it all figured out and I don’t like that. He’s teamed up with Mary and now he thinks he has the entire tribe voting the way he wants us to vote and doing whatever he wants. But if I have anything to say about it at tribal council tomorrow night, it will be abundantly clear that that’s not the case.” Day 6: Tribal Council It started with Joel telling Erik and Alexis his plan to break up Mikey and Mary. Joel had another confessional: “Micheal and Mary are very close and I believe that if we have one person who believes they are leading this tribe in a certain direction, their strongest alliance, in my mind, would be the alliance to beak.” Erik’s reaction was given in confessional: “Joel suggested that we, along with Alexis, work together to get rid of Mary. I think it’s a good idea because Mikey is a really smart guy and he knows what’s going on here.” Even if Erik told Joel that the idea was “pretty diabolical” he went along with it. Returning from Exile Island, Kathleen was told by Joel about the plan to rock the game. She had a confessional: “I was super worried that they were all going to pick Chet…Joel steps up to me and goes ‘It’s Mary’. Where did Mary come from?” Tracy also told us her views: “For the last two days, it was Kathy, Chet and myself against the other 7 and now we see a window of opportunity. I just don’t know if I can trust Joel. Joel wants this million dollars probably more than anybody here and I feel that he’s gonna stop at nothing to get it.” With Jason and Erik saying that it will be interesting to check out tribal council and that it will be fun, Joel had the last confessional: “If it goes as I think it will, Mary’s going home, Mikey’s going to be completely confused as to what happened and it’s going to be me running the show over here. But I’ve been doing a lot of running around and I’ve been talking to a lot of people. If these people are smart, I could see them thinking ‘he’s too powerful, he’s too manipulative’ and being very leery of me. But, either way, I think on my feet so we’ll see what happens.” At TC, Jeff first addressed Kathy getting the immunity idol. She explained Yau Man’s role. Chet was asked about the challenge: “Actually, I wasn’t exhausted, I thought it would be fastest to come back and let someone else go out because I was wasting too much time out there.” Jeff wasn’t convinced and underlined how the other 9 must have felt seeing him struggle. Chet added: “I would have liked to have done better but it didn’t turn out that way.” Mikey raised his hand to comment: “What was worse about Chet struggling was that if you are not a good swimmer why didn’t he make a team move and step down. I was really hurt by it to be honest with you.” Tracy was asked about camp life: “It’s aggravating. We have a lot of conflicts. The older people kinda went one way and the younger group went the other. You sorta get a little chafed by it. You say, I’m either gonna sit back and whine about it or I’m gonna get up and take care of myself.” Natalie told Jeff that people group together: “People have been segregated and now we have two shelters.” Jeff’s eyes showed his surprise at hearing that! Alexis explained: “There was a certain division. There’s two shelter, one housing Chet, Tracy and Kathy. There’s definitely some conflict there.” Jeff went back to Chet: “It looks bad that it’s 3 against 7 but it’s out of my control.” Erik said he’d be scared to be in Chet’s position. Mary spoke about alliances and friendships: “You see alliances forming. I feel pretty secure with my position in the tribe and with the people I choose to communicate with and be friends with.” Joel talked about what he would base his vote on: “I have a conscience, I swear. But I don’t care if anybody goes home, I mean I barely know these people and I don’t put it passed a single one of them to vote me off tonight. It’s a game of loyalty and it’s a game of deception and anyone can go at anytime and you’ll never know who it is.” What to make of Airai’s chances? Although I had first thought of Kathleen as a “Dumb Player”, I now think that she is being portrayed as a “Victim”. She has all the characteristics: We noted her presence early on with some interesting confessionals. She’s made friends with positive characters and then she was confronted by a “Villain” who she could be powerless against. She’ll have fans who will hate to see her go but it seems inevitable. That was Anthony’s story in Fiji where Rocky finally got rid of him. It was also Margaret’s story in Guatemala. I don’t think Kathy’s stay in Micronesia will be more pleasant. Alexis wasn’t featured much in this episode but since it was such a negative one for her tribe, it could be a good sign. Alexis was part of the decision to blindside Mary but she didn’t receive the blame. Being the first player voted out of Airai fit with Mary’s editing of episode #1 when she was identified as a non-factor, a “Brianna” but I think it’s important to determine how the editors wanted us to see Mary in her final episode. Did you see her as a “Victim” of the “Villain” or was her alliance with Mikey a real threat that had to be dealt with? This is important because Winners eliminate “Threats”, and “Tourists”, (Yul dealing with Ozzy’s threat by voting out Cece who, herself, was a “Brianna”. Then Yul went after Cao Boi and Flica, two “Tourists” for example) while “Villains” eliminate “Victims” (Examples being Rocky eliminating Anthony, Judd eliminating Margaret). Normally, we get to know “Victims” early on so, if Kathleen qualifies, Mary didn’t really. On the other hand, her blinside seemed completely unnecessary. I would say that Joel was indeed portrayed as a “Villain”, Now the question is how does that carry-over into Alexis’ chances of winning? As noted above, I found it interesting that Alexis was shown in close-up standing away from the drama and even moreso that we got to hear her voting confessional: “I’m going with the majority, I’m sorry.” She could still be portrayed as the winner of this season but we will have to see her disassociating herself from Joel. How Kathleen is voted out will give us the definite answer. As it stands now, if Alexis is seen as being responsible for Kathy’s eviction, I will doubt her chances of being the Sole Survivor. For a player who had been relegated to the background last week, Joel sure changed his role in the story this week. From the start with his quest for fire, he took on the role of the “Bully”. Our villain managed to fracture a tribe that had a 7-3 division into one that is now split 4-3-2 with both Jason and Mikey out of the loop of the final voting decision. Why did Joel vote Tracy? Was he thinking on his feet and something alerted him at TC? Or was he trying to play innocent and pretend that he wasn’t part of the change of plan? Either way, a fractured tribe is never good for its leaders and Joel worked very hard to be the main leader. Can the 3 older players team up with Jason and Micheal to defeat the “Incredible Hulk”? It would make for another surprising TC! Mikey had a very busy episode also. By aggressively targeting Chet, Tracy and Kathy, Mikey cannot be seen as a positive character but his future depends entirely on how he will be presented in the next episode. Will he take it all in stride like Ozzy and Earl did when they lost Cece and Erica respectively or will he throw a fit and become a target himself? Right now, he is out of the loop and his look of despair at TC was quite revealing. Erik was presented as Joel’s closest ally so he has to be considered a “villain” by association, going along with the diabolical idea. Most of his scenes have been confrontational, from beating Ozzy in episode #1 to saying Chet has reason to be scared. I doubt that he can disassociate himself from the “Bully”. Jason left me puzzled after this episode. After such a strong narration role in the first one, his role turned completely upside down this week. Even if he wasn’t part of the plan to blindside Mary, he is the one confronting the 3 older players. He told us directly how they don’t deserve to stay in his habitat and he thought TC would be fun because, at that time, he was certain Chet was leaving. Such a quick turn around doesn’t go with a long term edit. Natalie was relegated to letting Jeff know about her tribe’s division, confirming her status as a “Briana”, a non-factor in the game who could stay a while but still have no impact on the story. Tracy telling us she may have earned some respect from her tribemates softened her image from the first episode when all she talked about was Fairplay. She was given a role even after the departure of her rival. She could be another “Victim” but with the respect she earned, she could stay longer than the other older players. If she stays off the boot target until the merge, she's the other Fan who has a good edit that could carry her far. Chet was the one on the chopping block so it’s disppointing for his prospects that we heard much more from Tracy and Kathy than himself. More importantly, we were allowed to hear Jeff put him down twice during Tribal Council. Chet isn’t staying much longer.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-17-08, 11:58 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-17-08 AT 12:10 PM (EST) I also want to welcome the new posters to this thread, great insights there! michel, it seems as if you and I are far more in agreement post 2nd episode. Great, great assessments! I really feel like I noted alot of the same things that you did. With the start of the show, we do see the valuable Ozzy, catching a fish with his bare hands. (and I can not help but add how cute he was showing it to the camera man with a smile, . It seems the Favs were satisfied with the decision to vote JFP out. Eliza had the first confessional, which michel noted, was much like the ones she had in Vanuatu, noting that once again it could have been her. I too think her luck will indeed run out sooner rather than later this go round. Next confessional was Jonathan, noting as michel did, his confidence, they really should be able to beat these guys at any type of challenge. Again, I whole heatedly agree with michel, in that all of his confessionals exuded confidence...and again I get the feeling that Jonathan doesn't quite read the situation acurately enough, and has made hasty assumptions that could bite him in the end. Interesting that you noted he was shown at the challenge site when Jiffy mentioned the HII on EI, perhaps this will affect Jonathan in some way. He continues to be a narrator. Then we flip to the Fans tribe, and see total chaos. Their shelter is miserable, tempers are flaring, they can't get fire after losing half of the flint and everyone is blaming someone else. Scary, dysfunctional, highly contrasting to the Favs tribe. Joel clearly is emerging as a "Judd" type character. I noted specifically how possessive he was of the tribe, using the words, "my tribe" alot, "my priority is to keep my tribe strong right now". When Alexis was doing well with the flint at first he pushed her away and said "let me get in here and give it a try, in other words, only I can do it...He appears as a big bully would, scolding and controlling, pointing out that Mikey wants to be in control and has his eye on Mary, and he doesn't like it. Jason allianates himself from Kathy, Tracy and Chet, and then we hear Kathleen note that yes, they are the outcasts, and so they are indeed going to make their own shelter. I say to myself, this tribe is in serious trouble....then cut to the Favs beach with the light, carefree, happy, carribean music, where we immediately see Ozzy in front of the boat with the Favs, and he jumps off to swim to find food. I can't help but think, he's learning!!! Instead of going out on his own to fish, he is taking the entire tribe with him, SMART!!! Then we see Yau-man alone back at camp. I'd say this doesn't bode well for Yau-ans end game...Survivor is social and you can not segregate yourself. Then Jonathan notes that he hopes the fans are far behind them on the camp curve...which is indeed true. Then we see Ozzy and Amanda, and Ozzy's confessional about how beautiful Amanda is and how he wants to stay as far apart as possible as he wants to avoid a big target on his back(this does indeed show that Ozzy is aware of his predicament,...then the flirting Parv and James....and we hear Amanda's confessional, she doesn't want it to screw up her game. Noting the confessionals from Ozzy, Amanda, and Parvati, I think bodes better for the three of them, noting that we did not hear from James... Then back to the Fans, and they note Tracy's new shelter and the others are admiring it, Mikey tries to be the diplomat and says let's build ours right next to yours and put the fire there and bury the hatchet. Joel sees this and again looks at Mikey as threatening, I think. It's Joel and Mikey, the 2 alphas that finally make fire. Okay here is where I see the John Nash Theory in application. When there are a tribe of alphas, leaders, the winner will be a follower....if one from this tribe will win the game it will indeed be one of the followers...food for thought. Then the sounds of jungle love, as noted by Cirie. Cirie, finally is front and center. Jonathan notes that Cirie has agreed to work with him down the road, but notes his core alliance as himself, Ami, Yau-man, and Eliza. Is this misdirection, I get the feeling that indeed it is. We are led to believe that Cirie will go with them in this episode, but will she? Clearly she is in the hot seat. Still don't know what to make out of the lovers Now off to the challenge, where the fans applaud the favs for voting out Fairplay. We hear about exile island and the Hidden II(I saw that Eliza and Jonathan were noted) and we see the reaction from Ozzy as Jiffy unveils the reward, fishing gear. We all know who the provider is....Another thing that I noticed is when Jiffy pulled the tarp off of the fishing gear, and they showed Ozzy's reaction, they again played the light happy, carribean music, VERY briefly. Is the music associated with tribe Malakal, or is it with Ozzy? We see when Jason takes on Ozzy, that clearly Ozzy outdoes him, will he outlast him too? I note that the only ones that were not shown falling on the lily pads were Ozzy, Alexis, Jonathan, Parvati, and Mikey B....wondering if there is significance at all to that? Did note that Jeff noted Ozzy makes it, and Jason does not. James did a great job with the keys as did Cirie, Eliza, and Yau-man with the puzzle. At the end of the challenge we see the happy Ozzy when Jiffy notes they won the Fishing gear, we later see Ozzy pick it all up, then we see Ozzy hug Yau-man. The camera really does like Ozzy... Cirie and Kathleen off to EI, again Kathleen is in awe of Cirie. They do quite well in finding all of the clues, imo, but will they fall short of the hidden II. Cirie narrates their adventure, boding better for Cirie perhaps than Kathleen. Then back to the Fans camp, where Mikey goes into his plot, which is quite grand, and indeed complicated. The sinister Joel, notes that he doesn't like it, and he has the entire tribe voting the way he wants, but if "I" have anything to do about it it won't happen. Then we see Joel jump into action, and in the end, it is indeed a blindside, and Mikey is dumbfounded. Alpha vs. Alpha. Score one for Joel, but I can't help but think, but at what expense? I see a tribe fractured first off 7 against 3, now, Joel has successfully fractured the majority of the 7. This could have been his fatal error in the game, and I can not help but think he will indeed end up being blindsided as well. I hope it's sooner rather than later as well. There is no question that Joel has emerged the villain to me. To answer michel's question, I saw Mary and Mikey as the victims here. Interesting that Erik and Alexis seem to be under Joel's spell...if he is to be blindsided will one of them be at the crux of it? I thought that Tracy had an interesting confessional, how Joel wants the million dollars more than anyone here, and he won't stop at anything to get it....Tracy has his number....wonder what that will mean to her, when indeed Joel is running the show? TC, we see Joel enter last, cast in a shadow....the villain. When Jiffy said that fire represents life, the camera was on Alexis. Then Jiffy questions Chet, and Mikey notes he was urked by Chet's performance, then Tracy comments on the fracture of the tribe. Natalie notes how there is some segregation, then Alexis notes that Chet, Tracy and Kathy are living by themselves. Erik would be concerned if he was Chet and scared. Mary let's talk about alliances, yes she sees alliances and she feels secure in her position....Joel, first admits that he does have a conscience, but he will vote anybody as he really doesn't know these people. Kathy keeps immunity, Erik is up to vote....votes shown are Mikey as he votes for Chet, then we hear Alexis say that she just went with the majority, sorry, but we do not see her vote. Then the blindside occurs, Mikey is shocked, Joel smiles. First tc, first blindside. Next week: It seems that Cirie is front and center. Definately her story started in episode 2, and is gaining ground in episode 3. I think I know which group she will side with, but she could indeed draw it out, over more than one episode. We will most definately know where she stands the next time the Favs go to TC. As for the Fans, it will be most interesting to see how Mikey handles the blindside...and what happens to the Airai tribe in general. ***I wanted to note that I pay particular attention to the vidcaps. This past week the diving Ozzy was all over them, meant to be vidcaps for this particular episode. I had noted that the diving Ozzy shot had Jiffy in a light blue shirt and Ozzy did not have his buff on his arm, as he did sitting on the beach after his turn...therefore this led me to believe that there were indeed 2 challenges for this week. Yet, in ep 2 there was only one challenge. The diving Ozzy shots that were all over the previews, were not from this episode, they are from a future episode. Clearly there was no dock in this challenge for Jiffy to run on and narrate from the side out in the water. He was also wearing a lighter blue shirt in the future challenge. In ep 2 challenge he wore a dark blue shirt, and he stayed on the beach with the daws as they started their legs of the race. Just something to note regarding the editing!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-17-08, 04:02 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-18-08 AT 10:38 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 02-17-08 AT 04:07 PM (EST) Edited to note Veruca's point that Alexis, Joel, Eric and perhaps Natalie are in a sub alliance and Ami's one dimensional edit. Mocha here again with my impressions from episode 2 and what edits and relationships have changed/remained the same. Episode 2 Relationships, alliances, rivalries, bullying (+change, =same) + Chet+ Kathy+ Tracey vs. {(Mikey + Mary) + (Alexis+ Natalie + Joel + Eric)+ Jason} + Jason, Erik, Joel vs. Kathy, Chet, Tracey + Kathy +Cirie + Joel vs. Mikey = Mikey=Jonathon = (Ozzy + Amanda) + (James + Pavarti) = Ami + Jonathon + Eliza + Yauman Individual edits - I agree with Michel - some major change of edits from the first episode (+ more dimension/change, = same, -less/one dimensional edit) KEY: Physical threat edit (P), Social threat edit (S), Immunity idol/Intelligent threat edit (I), Villan edit (V), Attitue/Annoying edit (A) out early or end game goat, Weak/Victim edit (W) Clueless/Non-strategic edit (C), Flirt edit (F) Ozzy (FPS) + Added strategic/flirt edit to physical Amanda(FWS) + Weakenss highlighted in challenge also flirt edit Pavarti (SFP) = flirt and social threat edit continues James (F) - Diminished to only the flirt edit Cirie(SWI) + Cirie got credit for solving the immunity idol clues but came up short physically Jonathon (SP) + Physcal edits added to the strategic Eliza (SI) + Intelligence edit (puzzle solver) added to strategic Ami (P) - Phyical edit (swimming) this week Yauman(I) - although he was part of the puzzle solving he did not get edited as the solver Mikey (S,F,I) + Edit changed to too smart for his own good plus the flirt edit Mary (F) - only flirt edit highlighted Alexis (S,P) + Swimming and social highlighted Natalie - again not much of an edit Joel (VPS) + huge villian#1 edit Erik(PSA) + Villian #2 edit (comments about chet and older survivors) Jason (PVC) + Came up short in the rivalry with Ozzy and was shown as bully (villian #3?) towards Kathy, also excitement about going to tribal/left out of tribal dynamics. Tracey (AC) + Part of the older alliance but the most useful and better attitude than the others Kathy (AW) + weak/victim added to lack of social edit Chet (AW) - Change to weak edit Based on the change from episode 1 to 2 on the Favs Ozzy and Cirie were highlighted/edited the most. On Fans Joel and Kathy were highlighted/edited the most. As Veruca has stated in past seasons this doesn't mean they will win but it does mean that they will be around until the issues with these characters are resolved. In fact the more flirtatious, rivalrous or parallel relationships mean the better their chances for staying in the game longer. Episode 3 Preview said Cirie takes control of her tribe. So for the FAVS this episode will be huge in determining which alliance will be successful Ozzy/Amanda/James/Pavarti vs. Jonathon/Elize/Ami/Yauman. I have a feeling she will go with the younger folks again because she can fill a "mother" role for them(Kathy's comment about how sweet and motherly Cirie is comes to mind). I'm not sure what vital role she would play with the older villians and the oh so likable Yauman. It only makes sense that she would latch onto the more physical alliance because she is not physical player. It's also easier to play the 2 dyads against each other later in the game, as Michel noted. FANS: The fallout from the power struggle between Joel and Mikey will be interesting, but either way, I agree with Flowerpower, it looks like Joel's bullying and backstabbing will have negative consequences for him and the tribe. MOCHA   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabeat 0 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "New Member" 02-17-08, 10:16 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" Allow me to be a bit of a contrarian on some of the Jonathon sentiments. Right now I think, next to Alexis, he's had the best winner's edit out of them all and so I don't agree that we're seeing the same old arrogant narrator. His edit has changed. For one, did anyone notice that Jonathon was no longer being called out as "Jonathon" but instead as "Penner", ie new persona. And instead of making enemies like last time, we've seen him addressing his past foibles and consistently making allies such as in this past episode with Cirie (in a scene remarkably similiar to the Todd-Amanda pact in China's 2nd episode). Strategically speaking, even if Cirie were to side with the dating couples for the near future, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Penner would be the last one standing from his core four and the two then turning the tables later on in the game. To end, while Penner has gotten a lot camera time the first two episodes, he hasn't garnered the most on his tribe in either one, those roles went to Fairplay and Cirie respectively. Just my two cents.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-18-08, 07:24 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" The Recap 10 fans pitted against 10 favorites Both tribes immediately competed for individual immunity YM won idol - helped Kathy get idol The fans struggled on the beach and failed to build solid shelter At first IC favorites relied on experience but it wasn't enough Favorites split into two alliances (Eliza reflects on her group of Ami/Jonathan/YM and the other group of Amanda/Ozzy/Parvarti/James) Both groups wanted to recruit the same player (JFP then shown with his revelation) But not everyone was entirely convinced (Ami suspicious) In the end the entire tribe wrote down his name.... Some premises are set up for this immediate episode; notably the fans struggling at their camp which is expanded upon this episode, the continuing expansion of the favorites tribe split into two alliances with Cirie now in the mix as the "next" recruitment. I do note that Jeff’s words that the favorites relied on experience was not enough would play nicely should our ending be just that ----- experience was NOT enough. Ami, unfortunately was not at all prominent in this episode however it is interesting to note she was utilized in the opening. This may not mean anything but it also did not necessarily have to be shown either. Post Tribal Council Ozzy (conf) "...we lost Fairplay but we gained a fish; maybe that's a good omen?" Immediate payoff with their win Eliza (conf) "We had TC tonight and JFP asked us to vote him off and I kept thinking something was going to happen.... and I would end up being the one to go home first" Jonathan (conf) "...it screwed up my plans but you know everyone knows that if we continue to do what we are doing, we should be able to win I figure everyone came out here 30, 33... days, that times 9 is basically a year worth of experience... confident we can beat these guys at almost any challenge" Not very surprising that we should have Eliza and Jonathan be the core speakers for tribal dynamics as both have been and continue to be solid narrators. With that said, Eliza's words are just enough for the audience to remember and/or learn that she could have been eliminated which is the continuation of the first episode premise and may still play a role if they were to go to Tribal Council. Jonathan's words also are a transition from the first episode where we heard a few comments on how the favorites knowledge of the game should give them the advantage which ties directly to the theme. For the remainder of the episode, we were able to flesh out the fan dynamic which, per the norm, should happen in light of their going to Tribal Council. I would also say that we learned quite a bit about their dynamics as a unit but still have quite a bit to learn about them individually. Hints have been given (Erik's preoccupation with "beating" Ozzy, Jason's dream of being stranded on an island, Kathy woefully out of her element, etc) The parallels of each tribe's dynamic is very interesting as we do see how "experience" DOES indeed prove relevant to this game. Note the differences between the way each tribe was edited going to their Tribal Council. The favorites established their boundaries and their business and moved accordingly. The fans, however, were all over the place in terms of conducting a very important part of the game - strategy. Ultimately Mary leaving may have been very sound but the means to get there was chaos. This, is in addition to their difficulties with camp life while the favorites are edited as shown to take to this as pros. Ironically there is a big storyline from the favorites of “breaking up the couples” and we see the “fans” nip their “couple” immediately. Will the favorites who need this to happen fail and could that be their downfall? This is unknown for now but it IS a pending storyline. As I stated last week, while it may just be too good to be true, the competition at the end would be only fitting that one member from the fans and the favorites would complete this season perfectly. The Fans Opening sequence shows a band of confused players trying to get their act together. Alexis (conf) "It's day four and we are in a bad place right now... everyone tired and hungry but at the challenge yesterday we beat the favorites and won flint and flint is fire.....we're golden" Foreshadowing? Alexis shown working the flint enthusiastically but the day moves on and frustration builds. Kathy (conf) "....the boys are still back there..... but we got nothing! Number one priority for me is shelter.... so what is the problem" The tribe dynamic begins to reveal as the importance of shelter vs. fire take place. Chet, Kathy and Tracey are slowly revealed to be outside of their tribe and Joel starts to reveal his opinions and thought process as he yells at Kathy. A voice over by Mikey of "Oh it's so much drama" is heard with Alexis shown on camera. Another argument develops with Jason laying claim to his sleeping area with Kathy and Tracey exasperated. Jason (conf) "Tracey, Kathy and Chet… I don't think they accomplished a single, productive thing all day long and I told them straight up I don't want them sleeping with us..." Tracey refers to the others as "kids" and thus, we see how relationships are built due to various biological and social attributes. Kathy is again emotional. Kathy (conf) "Tracey, Chet and myself have pretty much been shunned by the other people and you can't fight 7 against 3 and you just relieve stuff in your life like high school where you didn't fit in... it just brings it all back" The larger group sees the three build their own shelter as Joel states "tell me we're not dividing" Mikey states no it is, quite obviously. Our premise is now established with our fans. The groups have been specifically shown which lent to how Tribal Council ended as it did. We were told that the three are essentially not productive and do nothing but that was never really validated except in Chet’s case at the challenge. In fact, Kathy's confessional, despite if people like/dislike her, was meant to evoke sympathy. Feeling they are the outcasts coupled with Jason’s attitude, Joel’s “bully” tone with no real concrete provocation did not really tell the audience that these three are worthless. The scenes regarding the division of the tribe were actually more favorable to the “outcast three” then the likes of Joel, Jason and Mikey (these three were the most prevalent in their annoyance The Favorites Opening scene of being on the boat, catching food, YM at pot to cook, a very cohesive working unit. Jonathan (conf) "We were quite disorganized at the last challenge so we're going to do a little better today. We are hoping the fans slept poorly and are behind us on the camp curve cause we're doing great, honestly" (Note this confessional also includes the later confessional where he discusses the “romance” he witnessed at night) Ozzy then shown under water looking for food then on the beach with King Neptune talent intact with his catch of the day as Amanda approaches. Ozzy (conf) "I'm starting to become... really attracted to Amanda; she is so cute, I mean she is beautiful and it's just like (groans) gotta stay apart as long as possible because if it becomes obvious to the group I'm gonna have a giant target on my back" (Camera shots shown of Amanda and Ozzy together with YM "watching" then Eliza "watching") James and Parvarti are also shown interacting/flirting Parvarti (conf) "I started off working a flirting angle with James; it was so easy because he is just so cute” Camera shots then shown of Jonathan, Ami and Amanda, Amanda shown watching Jonathan asks Amanda if it is love with an on screen: “I don't know” by Amanda Amanda (conf) "I definitely think James and Parvarti have something going on and I always thought Ozzy was really, really cute so it's kind of a coupley alliance, yeah; (Jonathan shown "observant") but I just gotta be careful because I don't want to screw up my game" It is possible Amanda’s confessional is from an earlier time period as I find it hard to believe she is only just now realizing that James and Parvarti have something going on. With that stated of the four involved, James did not receive any confessional about his relationship with Parvarti which has me question how important his role is this season other than as part/parcel of Parvart and this alliance. What is most notable is how both Ozzy and Amanda acknowledge how they feel; shown to state how they HAVE to be careful however the remainder of the episode showcases the two of them conveniently forgetting their own warning. What should that elicit from the audience then? The audience has been manipulated effectively. Ozzy and Amanda are aware they need to be careful. They decide to forget being careful in full view of others which is then validated by both Jonathan and Cirie. Ozzy and Amanda are ALSO given imagery of two rats. This may, ultimately, be what is shown to be their downfall at some point. While Parvarti has not yet “proven” she does have more dimension, in an episode mostly devoted to the fans with a few hints of developing story for the favorites, Parvarti is also conveniently thrown into the mix advising that “she started off working a flirting angle… it was so easy” This is a bit different than Ozzy/Amanda stating they have to watch themselves and then shown ignoring their own warnings. Pavarti is not stating what she is doing may be a problem and she is also shown reminding the audience of her plans. Parvarti is not necessarily meant to be liked but she also did not look in this episode to directly violate anything she stated. The real clue of Parvarti’s success this season, however, will be if she puts her money where her mouth is and the audience begins to see strategy other than one dimensional flirting. At this time, we have not quite reached that point BUT the glimpses of her this episode did not have the same impact as they did with the scenes of Ozzy and Amanda. Fans The little tribe of three put up a shelter that Erik even questions how they did it with no time. Tracey (conf) "Kathy, Chet and myself made a shelter…” "...others came over and asked to help them so I think I earned a little bit of respect from them" The group is shown looking at the shelter and they are impressed while Mikey states to Tracey that they will have two shelters, fire in middle and bury the hatchet" while Tracey volunteers to Joel to show them how they did it. A victorious moment then shown with Mikey and Alexis trying again for fire and accomplishing it. Mary (conf) "...we got fire, now we can boil water, we actually found some clams... definitely a good feeling" The group is then shown eating and happy as Mary continues: "the whole dynamic the tribe just completely turned around, everyone put their issues behind them and much more unified tribe" The outsiders accomplished a shelter that required the “others” to need assistance. This certainly does not lend well to the edit of those who openly criticized the outcast of three. Tracey received some good narration as did Kathy while Chet (who was in the most danger of leaving) had no fleshing out whatsoever. Some romance is blooming with the fans as well Mikey (conf) "I'm definitely flirting with Mary, I'm having fun with her on the island no shirt sitting with trees around him I want to get Mary to trust me and if I can use my flirtatious ability to get her in my back pocket then I'm gonna use it" Note that all of Mikey’s confessionals this episode occurred in the same spot therefore his discussion about Mary and about the upcoming vote at Tribal Council were in the same time period Joel (conf) "Mikey, I think really likes how Mary looks… that’s like out of player school 101. Obviously I am going to keep my eyes on them but my priority is to keep my tribe strong so I think the three outsiders, Tracy, Chet and Kathy will be out of here as soon as possible” Note also that Joel’s confessionals also appeared in the same time/location that had him discuss Mikey/Mary, the scenarios of the upcoming Tribal Council, his issues with Mikey, how Joel reflects on how he is perceived, etc. The Favorites Cirie’s role finally received her due with the commencement of the “romance” and later at Exile Island. This episode was Cirie’s “break out role” which compared with Ami and YM bodes much better for her chances. She is now integrated into multiple story lines. Cirie (conf) “I was awake quite a bit last night. Heard the sounds of jungle love I guess; it’s a little more than alliances with those guys; that’s what makes it scary” Jonathan and Cirie both commiserate with each other Jonathan (conf) “It’s silly you know…. go get a hotel room, you got to take one step back and think somebody’s awake. We are sleeping together in a cave!” (Note this confessional is the same as the earlier confessional where he discusses doing better on the “camp curve” Jonathan “I’m afraid of Parvarti, James, Amanda and uh, Ozzy” Done in voice over - foreshadowing? Cirie “Me too!” Jonathan “Right. Totally tight” Cirie (conf) “The two couples separate don’t really bother me, the four of them together poses a problem” “I don’t know just yet how to dismantle that foursome. But I’m gonna try” (This is a continuation of her earlier confessional. Interesting to note that Cirie gives the audience a future premise on perhaps SHE being the one to dismantle the foursome?) Jonathan “So should we think about working a little bit together? You want to think about that?” Cirie “Oh I definitely want to think about that okay” Jonathan (conf) “We have myself, Eliza, Ami, YM…. and we need one more the lock and that was Cirie who told me she would work with me down the line if we decide to go that far together” (The above was an entirely different confessional which, it stands to reason, may not have occurred during this time frame as it may be more suited for when this tribe foresees that they are going to Tribal Council. If the “favorites” are to go to Tribal Council shortly, Jonathan’s confessional may have been taken from a future episode. This is certainly affirming more storyline for the future) The Challenge At the challenge, perhaps just a coincidental visual but Jeff’s words about the idol and power in the game met with a solo shot of Jonathan immediately after which was felt to be a bit manipulated. Whether Jonathan is the benefactor OR the victim will be interesting to note in terms of manipulated visuals which have occurred in the past. Kathy is selected to sit out (in some fashion) and the challenge centered around Chet’s hopeless attempts which met with disapproval as pointed out immediately by Jeff stating Chet took a big fall on the lily pad (note that both Ami and Amanda both fell on theirs just prior) with Joel’s voice over to “watch the key” then Chet not being able to and the camera showing Chet walking back to shore only helped to solidify his ineptitude which was completely magnified at this challenge The favorites win and discussion seemed to focus around YM in terms of who they would select to exile and Kathy was chosen. Cirie volunteers and the challenge is over. Exile Island Exile Island will prove to be another useful editing tool as we have been able to see how longer term players are evolved more when they were sent to EI. In this instance, it seemed fairly clear that Cirie has longevity over Kathy as Cirie was the sole narrator over the events at EI. One would think if Kathy was a long term player, the editors would make sure the audience gets to know her there even more since we already know Cirie. Kathy only received one confessional and it was about Cirie Cirie (conf) “Right now my team has nine people. Parvarti and those guys and Jonathan and those guys and then I’m smack dab in the middle; I’m going to EI and all I’m thinking is God please let me find the HII….” (Further progression of future events) The remainder of time shown was Cirie and Kathy’s rather humorous quest to find the idol and Cire’s entire narration. As stated for Kathy to not have narrated anything other than her pleasure at being with Cirie is not good in terms of Kathy’s longevity regardless of any other factors. The only item to note with Kathy’s confessional is her statement that Cirie has learned a lot…she’s right there… That may be an interesting foreshadow to our resident “couch potato” and perhaps has a deeper meaning in how Cirie fares. Perhaps this is reflective of Cirie’s capabilities as long term player and builds upon another theme of past players making changes to correct past mistakes. The Fans Alexis gives her tribe applause as no matter what they “win as a team and lose as a team” Joel acknowledges the swimmers and Erik provides confessional about Tribal Council and that Chet is the likely candidate due to his challenge performance. Note the difference in a confessional such as Erik’s as opposed to one like Cirie’s or Jonathan’s. Erik is strictly reporting the issues at hand presently; there is no manipulation Mikey (conf) “All of us know who we want to go home; that would be Chet but there are a lot of variables that come into play which make it difficult” (Again, same confessional spot as his earlier one) We are then shown A LOT of variables told by Mikey to the group and the remainder of his confessional. Joel (conf) “Mikey’s throwing out all these scenarios on and on so much it confuses me. My initial thought was Chet you are outta here but Mikey thinks he’s got it all figured out and I don’t like that; he teamed up with Mary and now he thinks he’s got the entire tribe voting the way he wants to vote…if I have anything to say about that… it will be abundantly clear that is not the case” (Again, solely reporting. Joel’s time this episode, while escalated, centered around the current events and, in fact, his edit rang on the side of someone who might get what he gave) We then proceed to the next morning with Joel, Erik and Alexis (which we then note to be an alliance together with Joel stating Mikey can’t be trusted and Mikey and Mary need to be broken up Joel (conf) “Yesterday we lost IC… and Mikey seems to think he’s running the show (done in voice over) and I just want to put a stop to it” (Again, this is a continuation of his earlier confessional) “Mike and Mary are close and I believe that if we have one person who believes they are leading this tribe in a certain direction their strongest alliance in my mind is the alliance to break” A parallel to the favorites; the fans took an opportunity to break up a potential romantic partnership. The two romantic partnerships at the favorites’ tribe reflect one of danger for the others. Will they take the same opportunity or miss out and regret it? As stated, Mikey and Joel’s confessionals were all of the same period; there was no manipulation involved which makes me question if there is not a lot of footage of either of them from the future that could have been incorporated into this episode. Many times we see footage from future confessionals that could be tied to another situation; this did not happen for either. For example, Jonathan this episode had various confessionals, not of all which were from the same time period and this episode was not even favorite oriented. In other words, despite how heavily Joel and Mikey were featured there was no manipulation involved. Erik (conf) “Joel suggested that we, along with Alexis, work together and get rid of Mary; it could be a good idea because Mikey is a really smart guy and he knows what he is doing here” (It will be interesting to see if there is any foreshadowing to Joel advising that Mikey would stab anyone in the back coupled with Erik’s noting Mikey is intelligent; will Joel get “stabbed” in the back by Mikey?) Joel and Erik are shown at a different time with Joel explaining how Mikey is needed for the competitions and thus, necessary to keep which again may end up being something Joel may regret Kathy returns after Joel takes Chet and Tracy in on his plan and Joel does ask Kathy if she told Cirie all about them. Another humorous moment is shown with Joel telling Kathy to vote for Mary as Kathy looks a bit perplexed as to whether there is even a Mary on her tribe. Kathy (conf) “…when I come back right away Joel steps up to me and says “It’s Mary” I’m like where did Mary come from?” Kathy tells Tracy and Chet she needs guidance. Tracy “Over the last two days Kathy, Chet and myself are against the other seven, finally see a window of opportunity but I just don’t know if I can trust Joel. Joel wants this million dollars probably more than anybody here and I feel like he’s gonna stop at nothing to get it” (Foreshadowing of a potential villainous edit of Joel and later on at TC, shades and hues of reaping what you sow as well.) Joel is then shown talking to Natalie with Mary’s confessional and back to tribe dynamics. Jason was left completely out of any discussion so it appears that Joel had enlisted Alexis and Erik with possibly Natalie to be part of his group as Jason did not vote for Mary (Joel didn’t either but that was for different reasons.) What was also interesting is that Chet did not receive any confessionals about this vote which does not bode well for him at all. HE was the one in danger more than anyone yet Kathy and Tracy talked to the camera and he did not. We didn’t hear how this plan could save him or that he was worried he would be the next to leave; this does suggest that Chet is not a long term player. Joel (conf) “…tonight Mary is going home, Mikey will be completely confused as to what happened and it will be me running the show over here. But I’ve been doing a lot of running around; I’ve been talking to a lot of people and if these people are smart I could see them thinking he’s too powerful, too manipulative and being very leery of me but either way I think I’m upbeat so we’ll see what happens” Again, same confessional area and strictly one dimensional. Tribal Council Very intense entrance music to note. The cymbals have also been a musical sound I attempt to note and they occurred at the following: Kathy can give idol to someone before the vote (cut to Chet) Chet advising that his performance did not turn out the way he wanted; Natalie stating there is segregation and Tracy stating camp life aggravating Kathy is asked how she found the first idol. Chet was asked about the challenge with Jeff emphasizing how he did (or didn’t do) which was validated by Jeff. Mikey discusses he was “irked” over the way Chet handled the challenge Tracy discussed camp life and the segregation Natalie brings up the segregation and how there are two shelters (Natalie was not given any confessionals during this episode although there were some manipulated visuals) Alexis expands on this and that it has been difficult Chet advises the vote is out of his control Erik advises he would be nervous if he was Chet as he is outside the numbers Mary advises that she feels secure with the people she is with Joel advises he doesn’t care about these people and who goes home and doesn’t put it past any of them to vote him out either: “It’s a game of loyalty (Alexis) and a game of deception (Mikey)” Of note, Jason did not receive any question to answer – not horrible but not necessarily a good sign in terms of end game when everyone else got a question at their first TC. Mikey and Alexis received vote discussion and Mary is “blindsided” Jeff: “Congratulations, first blindside” (an editing oops shown when Jeff utters these words as Mary is still there when he utters these words. I would need to go back to determine if another season with “blindsides” was foreshadowed as such as Jeff did not speak these words; we only heard them as the shot was on the contestants) At this juncture, Ami and YM were significantly underused when they could have even been given a “fluff” comment about the romance of the pairs. Eliza was not an issue for this episode since the favorites did not have to go to TC but she received an early confessional reminding the audience of where she stands and she received a visual in “observing” the couples. YM did as well but he received no air time and Ami received neither. Jonathan and Cirie did very well this episode and both appear to have future storylines pending. The romantic angle was again played up and it really did not have to be unless it is of some importance. On the fans side, Kathy did well in terms of face time but no focus was given to her on Exile Island which does not bode well for her. Chet could have had a huge role this episode and was completely neglected except for visual validation that he did not do well on this challenge. Joel is coming to a storyline for himself and I do question whether he ends up getting what he gave. Mikey was increased but it was necessary in terms of the storyline since he was “bamboozled.” The remainder of the fans appeared to be leveled with no real escalation or demotion in their air time.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-20-08, 00:54 AM (EST) 26. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" Now that some of the alliances have been introduced... let's see if episode 3 continues to highlight the importance of the same members over others in the alliance. Episode 1-2 # of Relationships (rivalries/romances/alliances)/parallels/time on screen could mean longevity in the game. Fans in order of longevity? Young ones: Joel, Eric, Jason, Mikey, Alexis,Natalie Older ones: Kathy, Tracey, Chet I put Joel/Eric/Jason in front because of their rivalry with Ozzy, Mikey and the older ones. Favs in order of longevity? Showmancers: Ozzy, Pavarti, James, Amanda Strategists: Jonathon, Eliza, Yauman, Ami Cirie (hasn't been shown as part of an alliance yet) I rated the Showmancer alliance higher than stategists because of the jungle love edit. Ozzy ends up before Pavarti because of the many people that are competing against him. James is in front of Amanda b/c of his potential rivalry against Joel (2 strongest men). I put Jonathon in front of Eliza b/c of his parallels with Mikey. Eliza and Jonathon in front because of their rivalry with Pavarti. Yauman in front of Ami b/c of his ties to Kathy and the immunity idol. Cirie's postion should change dramatically once she is shown picking an alliance. MOCHA   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-20-08, 04:34 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" HELP!!!!! I have a whole writeup that I want to post here complete with italics, bold, and underlining. i wrote it in microsoft word, but when i bring it over none of the formating is retained. i cant even figure out how to format font in my post...please help. (i promise that it is good analysis....)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-20-08, 05:09 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" Hi b1whois...no worries, we will get it in! Just copy and paste into your reply. Then just above the 'your message' in your reply, is some text in red. Click on the "HTML Reference"....this will explain to you how to do EVERYTHING!!! For example, you will use the < and it's counterpart, put those brackets around b and then type what you want bolded and then type the brackets around /b and you will see your text in bold. If you want to use italics, use the brackets with an i in them, type the text you want in italics, and then end it with the brackets and /i in it and the text well appear in italics.[P>You can preview your message before you post it by hitting the preview button at the bottom of your post....no worries and I hope this helps... fp   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-21-08, 04:28 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" ok, here goes... here is a mostly complete transcript of the Insider Clips. I find it interesting as things that were NOT shown. I don't know quite how to analyze what is shown, this goes to an audience of more survivor fans more devoted than the casual viewer, who may be more interested in strategy. The insider clips showing Mary's final words and Mary's day after speech are not included, as they did not seem to have any pertinent info. Bickering at Airai. “Joel, firefighter and father of two, plays peacemaker at the divided Airai tribe. ” Clip of crab scuttling across the sand. (CUT) Erik's shoe kicks a coconut. (CUT) Jason and Erik are on the beach Jason is chopping a coconut while he complains that Kathy hasn’t brought him any coconuts at all yet. (CUT weird, looks like Tracy is walking by, this has no relevance???) Just then, Kathy returns with a coconut. Jason grouches that “it’s only one.” Kathy says that one is better than none. (CUT, closeup of Erik, with Erik voicing over, followed by Erik interviewing on screen) “This camp is driving me nuts.” He feels like he’s stuck between two parents who don’t get along. (CUT) SNAKE ON SAND VISUAL as we hear Chet saying that he thinks Joel is an intelligent person. (CUT) We then see Chet and Joel walking on the beach. Chet says that Jason is causing all sorts of problems with his attitude. (CUT) Joel interviews that he’s trying not to let his emotions play him through the game. (CUT) Back on the beach, Joel says they have to deal and tells Chet to keep calm. Chet complains some more. Joel says that they just can’t let these things blow up and get bigger. Chet says, “You don’t know me very well, do you?” (CUT) Joel ends by interviewing, “When your emotions get the best of you, you start to lose.” We are not seeing that Jason is annoying and Joel is smart. Joel's omission fits into his "Villain" edit. Jason's omission? Hmmm…perhaps they are just saving it for later. Mary's Secret Scene “Mary lets her guard down and is outwitted by the competition.” The clip starts with the Fan females all lounging together in the ocean. (CUT) Mary interviews that she has made some good bonds, especially with Alexis and Natalie. (CUT) Mary listens as Alexis waxes poetic: “Money doesn't buy you happiness. Money doesn't buy you love.” “I feel so blessed to have learned that lesson. If I have money or don't have money, like, that's not what makes me who I am. And it certainly does not make me happy...” the girls continue to bond. (CUT) Mary interviews that Alexis has a really, really good soul and a huge heart and she gives off a vibe that she doesn't have any plans that are going to ruin any alliances. She sees Alexis as “very pure and honest”. (CUT) Alexis tells Natalie why they should vote for Mary: “ it will really help us out, because it will guarantee us two, if Mary's not here.” The girls giggle about feeling bad for doing it, but they are doing it anyway. Natalie says she thought she wouldn't tell a lie out here, but...” Natalie and Alexis promise to be true to each other. <Alexis does a cool little dance move here, these two definitely seem to connect> (CUT) Alexis voices over “Girls know that whenever three girls are hanging out, there's always one who is left out. So I think that if Mary were out of the picture then it really bonds Natalie and myself.” (CUT) previous scene is continued...Natalie is very happy as Alexis tells her “ I would hug you but it would be too obvious...” and they fake hug before they break up to “find some vines” as Alexis puts it. This may have been held from the show to protect Alexis from a villainous association with the blindside of Mary. Joel's Master Plan “Joel explains his devious strategy to control his tribe while keeping a low profile, and breaking up the threatening alliances around him.” Joel interviews on screen: We are a tribe of strong personalities, you know. Everybody here, I think, has a strong personality. I don't really see anybody that is kinda like...well, Erik might be a little bit of ho-hum. But I think there is little bit more going on there,with Erik, than we might see. He would be the only one that I would say is kinda “hmm, whatever” kind of person. Which can be, good, too. But, you know, we're a tribe of very strong personalities and just don't want to let anything go. We want it our way. We think we know the best way to do it, we think we've got the best example. We've had the best experiences and what we bring is the best thing to be brought to the table and on and on and on and on down the line. (CUT) There was an argument last night about some palm fronds. Jason was concerned about keeping himself protected from the rain, while he was watching the fire. Which is of concern. But, his solution was to take palm fronds off of Chet and Tracy's, you know, their covering, and their roof basically, to protect himself. Which I couldn't figure out the thought process there, other than the fact he doesn't like Tracy and Chet. It didn't make sense to me...I didn't want to get involved in the argument but the argument kept getting more and more heated and more and more heated and so I finally stood up and told them to take a break. And they didn't really want to take a break at first and so I had to get a little more forceful I told them they needed to take a break or, i...would tear down every shelter we have on the island. (CUT) I have been thinking about the dynamic of the game overall. And it is. Its a game, its a game of loyalty and its a game of deception. If we have one person who believes that they are leading this tribe in a certain direction, their strongest alliance, in my mind, would be the alliance to break, because if it is perceived by the rest of the tribe that this individual, being Mikey, is leading the tribe leading the tribe in a certain direction then that alliance could grow if it is viewed as strong. People will want to jump on board. (CUT) I have spoken with Erik. I have spoken with Alexis. I have spoken with Natalie. And I believe that is my “strong four”. I hope it is. I really hope it is. Because if that's a strong four then this is the way I see things working out: Tonight, Mary goes home. That's Mikey's alliance. That's done. Mikey's left with Jason. That's two. Then you have the other three: Tracy, Kathy, and Chet. That's three. We've got them beat either way. The only way that it wouldn't be the case is if Mikey and Jason teamed up with Tracy, Kathy and Chet. Tracy absolutely hates Jason and I don't believe they would ever team up together. They would be smart if they set that aside, but I will let that fester as long as I possibly can, and possibly feed it. Chet absolutely hates Jason. I don't' see them teaming up. So, my objective would be to play the three, Tracy, Kathy and Chet, against Mikey and Jason once Mary is gone. For Alexis to still act as though she is in Mikey's pocket. For Erik to still act as though he is very tight with Jason, and for Natalie to still act as though she is outside and doesn't know who she is with. While I am saying “I've got no alignment with anybody, I have no favoritism, I am totally impartial, whatever you guys want to do, I'm in.” So, first off, we are not being shown how smart Joel is playing. Does the withholding of this info mean that Joel doesn't win? That he is not in the Final Three? The editors are choosing the villain edit for poor Joel, while there is lots of other material that is being swept under the rug. Secondly, we are not being shown what a villain Jason is. Why is this being kept from the viewers? Does story-telling require a limited number of villains? Jason's edit seems to be more about a wide-eyed kid who taking it all in and having fun... Ozzy and Amanda: The Morning after “Ozzy and Amanda stole kisses in the night when they thought their tribemates were fast asleep. Now watch as the lovebirds try to deflect the subtle accusations the next morning.” Favorites, Day 5: we see James up early, chopping coconuts. (CUT) the girls are awoken, it seems by the sound of James chopping: Eliza rises, with Parvati having just sat up behind her. (CUT) Amanda is also just getting up. (CUT) James still chopping. (CUT) Ozzy and Jonathan off to the side, Ozzy tells Jonathan that he had a hard time falling asleep last night, and a hard time getting up. Ozzy continues that he saw Jonathan tending the fire a few times during the night. Jonathan agrees, saying that it is hard to sleep 12 hours at a time. Jonathan voices over “i don't feel threatened right now, maybe that is stupid...(CUT) visual of James still working alone on the coconuts, Jonathan's voice over continues, but is also cut: “James is not sure what to make of me, (CUT - visual to James seeming to look over) he may feel threatened by me, but I am not threatened by him. Nor Ozzy. Amanda or Parvati. (CUT to each as Jonathan says their name). I don't feel threatened. (CUT – visual to James working) (cut – audio is repeat of the end of the line above) maybe that is stupid, but (CUT) <the commentary doesn't flow here to the next cut> Jonathan on screen, “myself, Yauman, Eliza and Ami <counting on fingers> are the core four” (CUT to Cirie chopping a coconut) <vioiceover> fifth is Cirie. (CUT) Parvati and Amanda walking in shallow water. Amanda says <on screen although it is easy to hear> “I feel like we need one more person.” Parvati: “i know” (CUT – visual, rear view of girls wading), Amanda voices over “the only people I (CUT – girls legs as they wade, view fades up) trust here are you, James and Ozzy, you three.” Parvati: “yeah, me too.” Amanda voices over “i trust Parv completely. I think her and I can go really far in this game, (CUT – Amanda interviews on screen) you know because we both have different strategies, and we have different personalities, but (CUT – girls wading again) together, like, I think we can do a lot.”(CUT – Ozzy alone in the boat with an ominous tone struck in the music as it shifts to a more playful vibe) Ozzy's smiles like he can her what is being said as Parvati voices over, whispering “i think Ozzy likes you.” (CUT – girls have paused in their wading and are smiling and appear to be looking at Ozzy in the boat) Amanda, “really?” Parvati, “Ozzy has a crush on you” Amanda, “I am seriously trying to not talk to him that much.” (Cut to Ozzy in the boat, girls continue in voice over) Parvati “why?” Amanda “because I don't want people to ..” (CUT back to Parvati as she suddenly gets serious), “i think you should talk to him as much as you can.” Amanda “really?” Parvati “to make sure everything is like secure. You know, feel him.” Amanda, “yeah” (camera focuses in on Amanda) Parvati voices over, “like, if anything happens, you hold the cards” Amanda voices over “i think it would be smart of me to take Parv's (CUT to closeup of Parvati) advice into consideration (CUT- girls turn away to head off) because shes right, this is still a game. (CUT – Amanda interviews on screen) and if it can get me further, than why not?” (CUT to girls wading again, music picks up energy and there is a sound like a snake's rattle) (CUT to overhead visual of boat on water, music crescendos) First, my pet theory is that Jonathan has a double secret alliance with the couples. My thinking goes like this: Parvati, Amanda, and Ozzy are all very smart players and would not have left their fifth to chance. Parvati has a previous relationship with Jonathan. The couples would rather face Jonathan before the jury than Cirie. For his part, Jonathan is smart enough to know the advantages of the two-two-one alliance and that he would not be well served by the the Ami, Eliza, Yau, and Cirie alliance. (women's alliance, anyone?) this is why Jonathon says in this clip that he is not threatened. I can not believe that he would feel this way based on what we have been shown. Also, Jonathan saying that jams doesn't know what to think of him fits into this line of reasoning. Thoughts, anyone? As to the Amanda/Parvati scene, why was it not shown? Did they simply run out of time? Tribal Council “Watch as Joel's plan comes into fruition, brutally blindsiding Mary as the tribe cast their votes. ” Ok, I think that Vote Quote analysis could be very telling…The editors typically pick two quotes to see each week and we can be certain that we given all of the material that was available for the edit. So here we have our best chance to see all of the pieces that the editors had to chose from and can therefor infer more from what selections were ultimately made. Erik votes for Mary. “I’m voting for Mary tonight simply because she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I’m trying to stay true to my loyalties.” Vibe is young and naïve. Tracy votes for Mary. “This is clearly just because it’s a numbers game, and you’re the one they said to go with. Sorry.” vibe is calculating. Joel votes for Tracy. “This vote is for Tracy because, on the way over here, I realized I needed a failsafe for my two alliances of Alexis and Natalie.” vibe is matter-of-fact. This would have been great to show because it would have really piqued the audience's interest, both for the Vote and for the next episode. There must have been strong overriding reasons to withhold such a tantalizing tidbit…corollary: alliances not revealed always succeed? Kathy votes for Mary. “Sorry, Mary. I hardly got to know you, but we’re trying to shake up your seven man alliance. Nothing personal, but…<smile> it is not me!" vibe is light-hearted. Chet votes for Mary. “Mary, you’re a great girl, but you need to go." vibe is bleh, totally lacking personality. Mary votes for Tracy. “My vote tonight is for you, Tracy. I think you’re an awesome lady, but I do see you as a threat later down the line." vibe is confident. Jason votes for Chet. “My vote goes for Chet tonight because this is not a Laundromat, it’s a game of Survivor. I hope you didn’t come halfway around the world to put up a clothesline." vibe is cocky. Alexis votes for Mary. “Girl, this absolutely breaks my heart. I just went with the majority. Sorry." vibe is heartfelt. this was shown, and it showed Alexis very positively. Mikey votes for Chet. “Chet, you blew it with your body, your brains, and your heart. That’s just not acceptable to be a teammate of mine." vibe is arrogant. this was shown. Choosing this quote also sums up how we are to view Chet. Finally, if the Favs win immunity next ep, will the viewers blame our villain Joel? Natalie votes for Mary. “This is… absolutely… nothing personal. I just have to keep myself here.” another heartfelt vibe. Ok, so that's all the possible choices. In my opinion, the editors could have chosen to show commentary from Erik, Tracy, Joel, or Natalie, but they chose Alexis, who apparently they are grooming for the end game. (Chet's was out of the question – bad TV) The main lessons overall form the Insider Clips is that Joel's edit is being manipulated, as there was plenty of material that would have shown strategy, if he was a winner (if Earl would have said these things…). Also, Amanda, Alexis, and Jason are being presented without giving away important clues as to their personalities/intentions. Alexis is being highlighted positively in her vote quote. To follow up on two things from my earlier analysis of this ep: I had thought of Joel as brilliant, but after reading other's thoughts now see that he is a Villain. (My coworker also thinks he is a villain, so that seals it.) Also, I pointed to Amanda's slip on the lily pads as indicating that she is physically weak, however this does not fit at all with Jeff's current description for her published before the show aired: "..Amanda's in great shape, she does well in the challenges,…" Jeff trumps all, of course!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-21-08, 02:58 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" i rewatched the ep last night and was struck with how the vote quotes were watered down. mikey's quote was heard in its entirety, but the visual cut away during "you blew it with your body, your brains, and your heart.", greatly reducing the arrogance vibe. even more interesting was the quote from alexis, in which "Girl, this absolutely breaks my heart." was eliminated. also, the whole scene was shown from above (perhaps because of the cutting of the beginning sentence) which eliminated the "heartflet" vibe that is in the frontal clip on Insider. this is a real trend i am seeing with alexis, the ep 1 insider clip of her and joel forming thier bond had really cute stuff with alexis responding to being told he would "snap you like a twig". it was really, really endearing to watch, but not shown in the ep. then again in the ep 2 insider clip she is cute in her conversation with natalie, where she does her little dance move and her giggling and her fake hug: not shown. then this with the vote quote. what do you guys make of this? is it typical to tone down the characters since it is early in the game? the audience would definitely have alexis as a favorite if these clips were in the show...why hold back on alexis? also, has anyone analyized the editing of the Insider videos before? if so, i would like to read those threads to get a feel for the trends... i guess i was thinking that this could be my contribution to the editing thread: Insider analysis. what thoughts do you guys (michael, VS, and FP especially) have? laura   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CTgirl 3483 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 02-21-08, 03:05 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" Welcome to the boards b1whois. I am a regular reader and occasional poster in this thread. Michel has sometimes started a separate thread on the insider videos, but no one has analyzed it before. Thanks for bringing it over. I don't have time to watch them myself, and there's good stuff sometimes. Springtime frolic by Tribe   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-21-08, 10:51 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" bihwois, I love the insider interviews because it can give insight into "hidden" alliances/conflicts/strategy. I wasn't sure whether this was considered spoiler info or not so I hadn't looked at any this time. I agree some of these gems may show up in later episodes or have been left out on purpose to hide character flaws/stories that conflict with how they are editing the survivors. Congrats on getting the formatting correct! After figuring that out, I tried my best to create a sign pic - hopefully it passes muster!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Outfrontgirl 3955 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-21-08, 08:10 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-21-08 AT 08:14 PM (EST) First I have to apologize for posting without reading everything because I am late to the thread and need to catch up. I am just so struck by Cirie's edit, I had to throw in my two cents. In Ep 1 we in the room kept saying, what the heck, where is Cirie, why is no one soliciting her vote, and only going to JFP, and as we all know JFP can't be relied on, so what smart players could possibly have gone to TC without talking to Cirie? It made no sense at all to me and so I felt that she was deliberately omitted by the editing. It seems to me that the purpose would be to get us focused on other players and then ease Cirie in. I noted in Episode 1 that Cirie was immediately shown in full blown strategy mode. Gone was concern about leaves or being the first vote. Instead, her one comment showed a person to me who intended to act with great strategy and deliberation and was at the moment undecided. Not "I don't have a move" but "I don't know which move to make yet." I bet she was relieved that Ep 1 vote was easy. Then in Ep 2 we are shown Cirie as APPROACHED by Jonathan who is the mover and shaker of the moment. This again could point viewers towards Jonathan as the leader, and Cirie as someone lucky to have an option. But Cirie, we are shown, is much more still weighing her options, and sure of her ability. Then we know in Ep 3 she will come front and center and even make demands, per the promo. So we are, I think, being shown a story arc for Cirie that is mostly editing, because I do not believe no one talked to her in Ep 1, and I am doubtful that she only talked to Jonathan in Ep 2 and that none of the coupled four approached her. With JFP gone, you know they approached the swing vote; neither group is stupid. But that was not shown, because Ep 3 is the place where Cirie is to blossom. I look at Cirie this season and see an Earl-like confidence and intention to act as puppetmaster. One thing Cirie has going for her is she does not need to play the "must vote off the threats to win individual immunity" strategy, because she has no intention of winning by going on an immunity run. This allows her to ally with a strong player like Aras, and if Terry had ever faltered she would have a good shot in Panama. Point being that she does not have to fear James and Ozzy, who are stronger than her but not smarter, and I look forward to watching her edit unfold. "If I'd meant that, I'd have said it." - Lewis Carroll   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

citywitch 184 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-22-08, 08:08 AM (EST) 34. "Episode #3 Editing Impression:" Just a thought - instead of players mirroring opponents on the opposite team, how about mirroring players on their own? Mikey & Joel - really the same type. Alpha males with overthought, convoluted voting strategies. James & Ozzy - serious challenge threats with seriously impaired social skills, each grabbed onto someone they pray they can trust.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply |