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VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 01-21-08, 11:39 AM (EST) "The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Perhaps a much better concept than one of all returning players, Survivor has once again proven that with a bit of a “tweak” the show can still remain interesting to watch. I highly anticipate this particular season and once again a looming question will be – will the returning players make the same mistakes that cost them the game the first time? Now we also can ask, will the new players capitalize on what they know to orchestrate the returning players ousting? Perhaps the biggest theme we may be looking at is even more encompassing than returning players making the same mistakes - perhaps it may be more along the lines of the veterans with something to prove over those who sit back and say “I could do this better than them.” The editing should certainly “prove” or disprove that by how the returning characters are edited. It will be interesting to see if the returning players (instead of ego clashing and intense personal feelings) are more determined to “bond” or “band” together in order to prove they are, in fact, deserving to be there. With only half the amount returning players, it is suggestive that perhaps a cohesive group will help them fare better long term instead of allowing prior mistakes or ego clashing to get in the way. Exile Island returns (although not a favorite of mine, perhaps there is some “tweaking” with this as well- I have not read anything other than that it is returning due to possibly reading something I do not want to read) we can perhaps assume that (again) the editing of those exiled may get some preferential treatment in their edit to help determine their longevity. It stands to reason that we should watch the edits of the returning players carefully. We saw many instances in All Stars that those players who really were “stars” of their seasons failed miserably in their edit which ultimately suggested how poorly they fared (Ethan and Colby quickly come to mind) while others were true to their form and were strictly edited to showcase how their fall from grace the first time occurred for the same reason (Kathy played emotionally, Rupert attempted again to overcome his insecurities, etc.) Yet others were almost punished or held in suspicious regard for what they once were (quickly to mind Jerri) even if their intention was not to play that way again. Will alliances/bonding follow some typical paths? (example: gender, race, age?) Will those who were big threats be cut down quickly? (example: Ozzy, James) Will we see alliances formed by those who were on the same season? (example: Ami, Eliza) Will the former players all agree to stay together only if to make sure the new players don’t succeed or will they nip at the bud to form relationships with those who are new to this game? Time will tell. The Returning Players Yau Man - Fiji - 55 - Finished 4th place Jeff’s first description “He’s a guy you can easily dismiss; you’re just too old. I’m pulling for Yau-Man (as a guy who is getting older). Can he win the game? Longshot.” and “Another guy who is one of my all time favorite survivors is Yau-Man who I think might be the oldest guy. He's from coincidentally Kota Kinabalu where we did the very first season in Borneo. He grew up on those islands. So he is really at home. This is a guy that knows how to open a coconut quickly, efficiently. I really do think that people are going to adore Yau-Man” Jeff’s current description "You can't do a favorites season without Yau-Man. He's sort of the Rudy of this season. He'll be the oldest guy and the most frail and probably be one of the most popular. Yau-Man's problem is going to be those things. He's so popular, everyone there knows that he's popular and well liked, and everybody knows what happened to him in Fiji. But I think Yau-Man's going to have to come out and play aggressive. I don't think he can play that same game of just chopping coconuts and being everyone's friend." Unfortunately, we know how Rudy fared when he returned to All Stars. Whether Jeff’s words are any indication remains to be seen. Yau Man’s problem is that he IS so well regarded which may be his undoing although that was a big reason why he advanced so far in Fiji. Like Fiji, Yau Man may require a strong buffer to keep him from leaving early but Jeff’s words (as compared to some other descriptions-see other favorites of Jeff such as Jonathan and Cerie and note the differences in his descriptions) have me a bit worried over Yau Man’s fate in this game. Jeff almost states that what caused Yau-Man to be so successful the first time will be his downfall this time; there is no hint that Yau-Man can capitalize on his prior success or that in order for him to succeed he needs to do..... Jeff states he CAN’T play the same game, period. James - China - 30 - Finished 7th place Jeff’s first description "He is without question the biggest guy we've had on this show. He's actually a gentle giant, a very decent guy who works extremely hard. But if you rile him up, he'll let you know what he's thinking.” Jeff’s current description “I feel like the reason James is likable is there is a sense of authenticity there that you don't see that often - he's just going to tell you what he thinks. I don't think James is that great of a Survivor player, as we saw in China. He made, without question, the single biggest blunder in the history of the show. I don't think he gets how to play, but he's so strong and he works so hard and he is so likable that it's really hard to vote him out. I think James could do really well this season." Other than Amanda, the returning players (I believe) would not have viewed James on China which may be to his advantage. Like typical seasons, a physically strong player may initially do well but also viewed as a threat in the future. A rose is a rose is a rose. However, along with strength, game savvy is important and I’m not entirely sure James has learned effectively how to play this game which may again be his mistake. Jeff indicates that James appears to be playing the same way as before but he also doesn’t compound it with a negative (with Yao Man he states: I don’t think he can play the same game.....” James may ultimately end up in the same position as China but that would not be any worse or better whereas Yao Man was very successful in finishing 4th; being eliminated a lot sooner would indicate a lot of meaning behind Jeff’s words. As far as James, Jeff sounds like he would expect James to end up similarly to China - does well but just doesn’t have that angle to do any better. Jonny Fairplay - Pearl Islands - 33 - Finished 3rd place Jeff’s Current Description "You can't do the season and not invite your most notorious person. And Fairplay delivered, I will say that. He delivered, and I think we got what we expected we would get, which is that character he created called Jonny Fairplay. What gets me is just how effective it can still be. He can call you stupid and somebody will get mad. And I'm looking at this going, 'Why are you getting mad at this guy? He's created a character, he's trying to get under your skin - and it's working!' This guy is no threat to win this game - zero." Aside from his reputation alone, it is highly doubtful that Jonny Fairplay will make friends easily. This is one person who will cling to his persona in order to garner as much attention as possible. That he also was never one to contribute greatly in challenges or daily life should not be forgotten. I will go out on an easy limb and state that he will not grace our televisions as long as he did in Pearl Island. Whatever time he is on our screen will no doubt be highlighted as Jeff’s words indicate. Ozzy - Cook Islands - 26 - Finished 2nd place Jeff’s First Description “Ozzy is another guy I actually think could win this game” Jeff’s Current Description "Ozzy's big problem's going to be the fact that he's Ozzy. Ozzy played a brilliant physical game - the only thing Ozzy lacked was the social skill of how to play Survivor. And that's probably going to be the deciding difference. If he can figure out a way to survive socially due to the kind of targets he's going to have on his back due to his physical strength, then he can do really well. Otherwise it wouldn't surprise me if Ozzy went out really early because you just don't want him around." Ozzy may actually be someone that has learned from his mistakes. While he may have had some socialization issues on his season, as time went on, he learned to bond with his Aitu Four. It certainly helps that he has two contestants from his season and while Jonathan and Ozzy had a few issues, Jonathan certainly does not appear one to hold a grudge and is smart enough to know the value of keeping Ozzy around to help win challenges. Naturally he and Pavarti should get along as we saw how they got along on their season. Therefore, we may have the start of an already “built in” alliance. Socially, I’m not sure will be Ozzy’s problem but like some other contestants, his reputation may hurt him; you don’t want Ozzy in a position to win the challenges. However, Jeff’s words indicate “if he can....” which is different than what he said about Yao Man and “I don’t think he can...” which may fare better for Ozzy (than Yao Man) but logically speaking there is no one there who is not viewing Ozzy as a huge threat when challenges becomes individual. Jonathan - Cook Islands - 45 - Finished 7th place Jeff’s First Description “Jonathan Penner is one of my favorites. Not necessarily likeable but I hope he lasts awhile. I think he'll create some good stories.” Jeff’s Current Description "Penner only plays to win. He's not interested in third. He's not interested in second. And you saw that at Cook Islands. And Penner is gold. At Tribal Council I can just look at him and know that he's ready to light somebody up. And Penner is the biggest complainer that we've had on the show. He complains about every challenge, and I get a kick out of it. I'm so happy he's on the show. And Penner could win - absolutely. He's a smart dude, and I think he probably learned a couple things in watching his season's playback." Jonathan was a delight to watch the first time and from Jeff’s description appears to delight again and as stated on his season, it is probably safe to assume that he is around long enough for his character to be so recognized by Jeff. Interesting again to note Jeff’s words with Yau Man and his words with respect to Jonathan. Jeff adored Yau Man on his season but is very hesitant in his current words about Yau Man. Jeff exudes positivity about Jonathan and as seen in the past, while Jeff does not give anything away overtly, his words and tone tend to suggest some aspects about a player’s longevity. His commentary does suggest Jonathan may do fairly well and that Jonathan “learned.” Jonathan’s biggest problem on his season had a lot to do with some personality issues and some of the “younger members.” His subsequent mistakes may never have occurred if his relationships were more sounds. With the current makeup of his tribe, he may not face this issue and prove to be more successful this time around. Again, considering that Jeff states that he probably learned a few things this time around and that he speaks quite positively, Jonathan may have the keys to success. Jonathan was never truly thought of as a “threat” so I could imagine that there are “bigger fish to fry” when individual challenges get underway. If Jonathan is a bit more subtle, it would be no surprise if he lasts toward end game. Pavarti - Cook Islands - 25 - Finished 6th place Jeff’s Current Description "To me Parvati is this season's Amber. Last time, Parvati used her flirting, and it got her a long way. But we didn't really see her do a whole lot more than that, and the question was, what if underneath that she's got a strategy? What if she's figured out how to play this game - could she last long enough to become a threat? Parvati's a question mark. She could be the same thing, come out and giggle a couple times, eat some chocolate cake, and go home. On the flip side, if Parvati's figured out how to play this game, and maybe she teams up with somebody..." Quite an interesting commentary by Jeff since we know that Amber did indeed win All Stars. Pavarti may yet be another prior player who has learned from her mistakes and not rely solely on flirtation as a method to further herself. Considering the tribe makeup, she may utilize some of her methods on the likes of James and Ozzy but we can’t discount that Pavarti is indeed in good physical shape as well. It is perhaps telling to note Jeff did not finish his statement at the end which may indicate that she does indeed “team up” with somebody which may prove successful. I am of the mindset for now that flirtation is part of Pavarti’s makeup so I am a bit suspect that this method of game play is not in evidence; this may be as natural to Pavarti as breathing but she may have learned to implement other angles as well. His description sounds a bit promising for her. Ami Cusack - Vanuatu - 34 - Finished 6th place Jeff’s First Description “I think Ami is a person that if she stays in the game long enough, people are really going to like her. I think she's a genuinely cool person and her soul seems to just come out of her and I think people are going to see that. She's very comfortable in her own skin... very comfortable in her body. She's got an adorable smile and some interesting life experiences that I think may give her a bit of an advantage in the game.” Jeff’s Current Description “Ami will betray you; she'll do whatever it takes to get deeper in the game. But she's sexy, and she's got this 'Everything's beautiful in the world until I stab you in the back' thing. And that's what we want on this show. And if Ami has her way, I guarantee you there will be a women's alliance, because that is what Ami wanted in Vanuatu and that's what's she's going to try to make happen here." Jeff certainly emotes in his description of Ami. While not necessarily a means to the end, it appears that Ami is going to play as hard as she did in Vanuatu. The question remains, will Ami’s prior mistakes catch up to her as Jeff does elude to the fact that Ami will attempt to create another female contingent. However, Ami was so focused on creating a female alliance that her adaptability fell by the wayside. It is suggestive that she and Eliza will connect again due to their prior relationships and with Cirie, Amanda and Pavarti also there, we may see a hint of Ami’s wish immediately. I don’t foresee any immediate pressing issues for Ami but I am concerned she may strive too hard to fulfill her original quest and overlook the bigger picture Cirie - Panama - 37 - Finished 4th place Jeff’s First Description "Cirie represents everybody who's ever sat at home and said, "I could do that." But they never got up off the couch. Cirie got up off the couch and she's on this show. I think her little bubbly-ness is probably a bit of a mask for a player underneath who might be better than we think." Jeff’s Current Description: "Cirie represents the kind of people I love to see on the show. You look at Cirie and you think, 'How are you going to survive? You don't have the tools, you don't come from this background, you're not physically fit enough.' But there's more to this game than that. My hunch is Cirie played a very good game the first time, and I expect her to play an even better game the second time." Another favorite of Jeff’s, his description sounds reasonably favorable. At the very least, note the difference in his discussion on Cirie opposed to Yau Man. Jeff states his popularity may cause him a problem yet Cirie was also very popular but Jeff’s description sounds a bit more positive for her longevity. Cirie has to rely on her social game as she is not proficient in the harder challenges but she managed to ingratiate herself with some very difficult personalities on her season and she may be capable of doing that again. Jeff certainly seems to indicate this so at this time there does not appear to be anything that indicates an early boot. Amanda - China - 23 - Finished 3rd place Jeff’s First Description "Amanda probably is the most physically fit woman this season, very strong and confident. She's been outdoors a lot and she's not afraid of sticks or stones. Plus, she really knows the show — she's watched every episode — and after 15 seasons, that's an advantage." Jeff’s Current Description "Amanda knows how to play Survivor. She knows how to build an alliance, how long to keep it, when to get rid of it. She's very good at looking at odds, she's very good at assessing if better off against this person, or with this person. And you need that. Survivor only thrives when you have people who will continue to turn and switch and make moves. Amanda's in great shape, she does well in the challenges, she's beautiful, and she knows how to play." Coming fresh off from China, Amanda (like James) may have the advantage or disadvantage of her tribe mates knowing her. She also has the advantage of knowing how her tribe mates played this game in the past. Amanda was quite successful on China in her adaptability which Jeff hones in on with his commentary and this may be helpful to her. She may be viewed as an “outsider” in this former Survivor contingent and her only bond is with James. Both her and James could be valuable in this regard. I have no reason to believe right now that Amanda may not do rather well despite her coming straight off from China. It would have been very easy for Jeff to reference mistakes Amanda made in her China game but does not do so. Amanda may find herself just as successful this season as in China or moreseo; perhaps she even ups the ante a bit. Eliza - Vanuatu - 25 - Finished 4th place Jeff’s First Description “Eliza could emerge as a villain on this show, in the sense that she's very lippy. And she will say what's on her mind and she will get into little cat fights. She's adorable but her mouth could get her into trouble. That's going to be her big test. I think she may see that as an asset, lipping off. But in this game I'm not sure it is, I think less is more in the case of Eliza.” Jeff’s Current Description "Eliza is one of the most enjoyable people to have on the show because she gets it. Everybody knows Eliza will betray you at the drop of a hat, and Eliza knows you know that. Eliza is a Favorite because she can be so charmingly annoying. It's fun to watch Eliza get mad, and it's fun to watch people get mad at her, and she doesn't take it personally. That's the most beautiful part about her; she knows it's only a game: 'I have a life, I have a boyfriend, I'm going to be an attorney, I have a dog, that's my life - this is only a game. Of course, I'm going to try to cut your throat. I've got knives coming out of every part of my body." Jeff’s description does appear to sound that Eliza is certainly there long enough to have some kind of impact. It also does appear that Eliza’s prior persona is still in evidence which although helped her more than hurt her in her season, may not work so well with her current demographics. My one issue is that Jeff is indicating that Eliza may not really be playing all that hard to win; this is “only a game.” It does not sound like Eliza goes anywhere very soon due to some of Jeff’s words and tone and we know she may already have a safety net with Ami and her “non threatening” status which helps but there is also nothing from Jeff to indicate that Eliza is playing to win this which may indicate that she falls short. Unlike an entire All Star cast, these returning players may actually fare quite well should their goal be unified with “Let’s show these new people who REALLY knows how to play this game!” With an equal number to new players, they may automatically realize that being automatic targets, the goal should be to outlast the new people first then work on being the victor. With this group, it is entirely possible. Grant it, they have to get there first with intact numbers but with powerhouse challenge players such as James and Ozzy along with strong physical female players like Ami, Amanda, Eliza and Pavarti, the returning player tribe may give the new players a big fight on their hands. Like any group, success may rely on a matter of alliances and trust and a common goal. Most of these players *know* each other and as stated a looming question is whether their pasts will come back to haunt them or have they learned from their mistakes. Better yet, will this group decide that they won’t allow some “new kids” to come in and show them up. The New Kids On The Block The new players may have their hands full should the “favorites” decide that as a group en masse, they need to stick together just to show that veterans of the game know how to really play the game. Again, I believe this balance will prove to be more palatable to watch than the All Star season as personal feelings seemed to take over the game itself. Joel Anderson - 32 - Firefighter ''Bottom line, I'm here for my family. If I just wanted to go on vacation and hang out on the beach, I'd take my family with me.'' Jeff’s Description "Joel is the one guy who might be able to give James a run for his money, because he is every bit as big as James. He's a fireman, he's a father and a husband, and when I met with him the thing that really struck me is how he does everything for his wife and his family. And I like that about him. He's a big, big guy, and these challenges start off physical right from the get-go. Sometimes being a physical threat works against you early; I think in Joel's case it's going to be advantageous." Typically speaking, strong, physical people are usually safe until merger time unless they have a personality problem, lazy, etc. Suffice it to say, Joel appears to be a rather pleasant individual with no immediate concerns especially if the fans have trouble winning the challenges. Come merger time is when Joel may have some problems and his storyline/edit may help reflect if there is any longevity. He is definitely someone who the “favorites” may try to get rid of as a potential threat for individual immunity and accordingly we may see a strong story initially to compensate for a boot around merger when individual threats are taken care of. Natalie Bolton - 32 - Personal Trainer/Bartender “I need to be fearless again. I want to unearth all those things when I was 8 and didn't give a s--- about what people thought, and I did it anyway." Jeff’s Description “I'm on the fence with Natalie because I can't figure out if she has any business being in this game or not. On paper she sounds great - she's a personal trainer and she's young and she's attractive - but when I watched the first few moments on the show, I'm not sure her attitude is going to be able to survive. You have to have a sense of humor or you're going to be a miserable person if you can't laugh about being hungry at some point. I'm not sure Natalie's had to go through anything as difficult as what she's about to go through." We have seen people with “attitudes” do quite well in this game if only because others want to KEEP them there as a potential final two (or three) foil as discussed in the past. I would suggest that regardless how Natalie fares, she may be a character highlighted for maximum effect which may cause her editing to be misleading. Her longevity may also depend on how her “attitude” is edited. Will we get reinforcement by other cast mates or only one? Will her actions be heavily edited to validate what others may be saying about her? Will the audience like her even if her tribe mates do not? This should tell the tale. Michael Bortone - 34 - Writer/Actor "I'm good at reading people. You got to be everybody's best friend." Jeff’s Description "I like Mikey B. a lot. He's Boston, and Boston is so damn good to Survivor. He's got a colorful way of saying the most mundane thing, and that makes him somebody I will love to go to at Tribal Council." Michael appears to be someone that regardless of placement may also be highlighted based upon his character and could be a distraction in that regard. Again, typically speaking, strong males tend to do rather well pre-merge by nature of the goal - to win challenges and avoid Tribal Council. Considering the makeup of the men on this tribe, Michael may be needed but once individual wins come to play, he may be (like others) an immediate target. While Michael may be a personality that could potentially overstep verbal bounds also, Jeff doesn’t seem to indicate at this time that he is in too much trouble. Tracy Hughes-Wolf - 43-Commercial Builder “I'm a thrill seeker. I want to push myself to that point where I know I can do it." Jeff’s Description "Tracy should be very valuable because of her background, because she's a woman who works in construction. I don't know how much she wants to share about what she does, because there's a part of her that thinks if she comes on too strong could be seen as a threat. But on paper, this is something you rarely get: somebody who knows how to build. Boston Rob knew how to build things and that made him hugely valuable. I think Tracy could be the same way." Tracy may opt to take a middle of the road approach but contribute which may serve her well although many people think they will go into this game one way but are not able to shed their real personality. As we know, a strong female is quite often a detriment from the get go as opposed to a strong male which I have always been both amused and repelled by but such is human nature. At this point, a lot may depend on whether challenges are being lost or not and how she bonds with the other women on her tribe. Jeff does not come right out and state that her personality is a problem; only that IF she comes on too strong it could be one. Her standing may actually be determined on how the male ego on her tribe receives her depending on how she comes across. Alexis Jones - 24 - Motivational Speaker “People will see the Southern belle in me. But I'm fiercely competitive - despite my dimples.” Jeff’s Description “When she came in she was so excited. And I launched into this speech about how you need to drop the excitement and get your head in the game because these other people out here, they're already playing, they're already playing you, and they're already seeing you're this little simple girl from Texas that they're going to run right over. And she looks at me and says, 'I've read every person here.' And she had a pretty good read on everybody. I thought, This is all I need to know. This girl knows how to play. As a fan, I picked this girl to win.” Suffice it to say although Jeff’s commentary may ultimately mean nothing in the long run; Jeff does have his finger on the pulse quite consistently on who is long for this game. Should Alexis prove to be competitive and helpful without crossing that invisible line that tends to get some women in trouble, she may do quite well as Jeff indicates. Her enthusiasm may be quite infectious - she may ultimately end up being a player that the audience truly likes and as we know, Survivor does attempt to fill “slots” (i.e. villain, sweetheart, underdog, etc.) and she may be utilized as our “sweetheart” Erik Reichenbach - 22 - Ice cream scooper "I want to do this for myself, to grow up more. I haven't experienced a lot of life. I haven't experienced a lot of stress." Jeff’s Description "Erik loves the show more than anyone I have ever met. He remembers things that I did that I don't remember. He's a young kid, and that young exciting energy is what's going to keep him in this game and could easily be what gets him knocked out, because he doesn't have the maturity of life to know when he's being played. That's what he's going to have to watch out for. Because you could see people looking at him on Day One and going, 'Who is the kid in the green shoes, for crying out loud?" Erik may ultimately go on a journey of self discovery and maturity this season; a lot will depend upon what we hear from him in the first or second episode as “journey characters” tend to tell us what their issue is and what they want to achieve if he makes it that long. It stands to reason that some mention probably is made on the first episode about him since Jeff does seem to indicate this and a lot will depend on how that is edited. While Jeff’s commentary may indicate nothing, I am curious with respect to Jeff mentioning about "being played" and I question whether there is some situation that reflects that which results in his untimely departure. Mary Sartain - 29 - Real estate entrepreneur "This is closer to $1 million than I've ever been. I'm definitely in it for the money. I'm largely money-driven." Jeff’s Description "I think Mary coming into the game is going to be on the bubble. She's either going to learn where to fit in this group quickly or she's going to be on the outs for the whole time. Mary's best play is to hide in the middle, not become a nuisance, just hang out and see if you can hang out long enough that your vote becomes valuable." Mary’s goal is the correct attitude, one should be playing to win. Jeff’s description sounds like she may encounter some problems but again, we have often seen “difficult” people get a lot further than anticipated. Jeff is solely giving us an either/or analysis which tends to strike me as she is either not there long or she is there for a good duration. The question remains in the first episode if much of her “outs” is displayed and whether validated by people and met by agreement in the viewing. I do find it very interesting that most of the "fan" women players are described by Jeff in a very similar manner thus far except Alexis. All of the women thus far mentioned have been described in such a way that we may see some problems with the women; perhaps moreso than the men. Jason Siska - 22 - Student Teacher “I'm not evil or devious. But I can be. If it comes down to lying, I have no problem." Jeff’s Description "Jason loves to compare himself to Ozzy . He thinks Ozzy is the greatest player to ever participate in Survivor - I think he's kind of got a man-crush on him. He's coming on strong in the beginning saying, 'I'm going to go toe-to-toe with Ozzy. I can climb coconut trees just like he can, I can swim just like he can, and I'm just as athletic as he is.' My response to that is, it's one thing to say it and another thing to do it. So he can talk the talk, but the big question is, can he walk the walk?" I am sure that Ozzy (as most humans) would be very flattered knowing someone is his fan although if he is as dangerous as Ozzy was, Jason would be someone that the “favorites” are not going to take a chance with and keep around for individual immunities. I do not see any pressing issues that he will leave immediately but depending upon the numerical structure of the favorites over the fans, there may be quite a few favorites who won’t want someone physically capable there any longer than they have to be. However, at this juncture, he does not appear to have any immediate problems. Kathleen Sleckman - 45 - Golf course vendor "I'm tending to look for misfits, people who are psychologically or emotionally damaged, like myself." Jeff’s Description "We almost put Kathy on Vanuatu and we didn't. It's one thing to have a positive attitude, it's another to survive 39 days eating some rice, clams, and an occasional fish. I think Kathy's going to be tested enormously, and the longer she lasts, the tougher it's going to be unless she can embrace it. It's not an easy season out there. It rained almost every night we were there, and if you get sent to Exile, it can be brutal." Whether Jeff’s mention of Exile Island in conjunction with Kathleen indicates that she may visit there won’t be answered until the show but it is curious he mentions her and EI but does not with anyone else. Sadly, one must always assume that the eldest female may not fare well solely because these instances occur quite a lot on this show even if they may be in decent shape (unless they are able to take on subtle motherly role which is not easy to do.) Frankly, Kathleen’s description of what she is looking for does not seem to bode well for her (this is coming from herself!) and she may come off as a bit overbearing. Her statement that she is a misfit along with Jeff deeming that this show may test Kathy enormously sounds detrimental to her standings. Players do not have time or inclination to concede to people who march to the tune of their own drummer and she may suffer for it Chet Welch - 48 - Beauty Pageant Coach “I play outside the box. I know how to stand out, and I know what I need to do." Jeff’s Description "Chet works in the pageant world. He produces winners and he will do whatever it takes to get his pageant girl to win. If he plays this game the way he plays in the pageant world, then he is definitely a force to be reckoned with. If he doesn't, he could be going home soon. He has sort of been playing a version of Survivor for the past 20 years in the pageant world, and he gets this game." Alas, the pageant world and Survivor may have similar qualities but they are not the same. While Chet may be able to shape a winner does not necessarily indicate he, himself can be the winner. An old saying: “Those who can’t do, teach” may end up being appropriate in this situation. Again, like the eldest female, the eldest male is in a precarious situation unless they provide something that is needed by others (i.e. father figure, knowledge, etc.) but again, this is a fine line as a lot depends on how that male broadcasts himself. He may get along well with some of the women but “coaches” in competitive businesses/worlds can tend to be too abrasive. I’m not entirely fond of Chet’s longevity but I can see him highlighted for as long as he is there. Note that Jeff states he could be a force but if not, he could be going home soon. These types of statements usually indicate to me a very short lived stay or a fair amount of longevity. I honestly have issue with Chet lasting however. I think this particular endeavor may actually prove to be quite successful. The earlier All Stars on paper appeared to be a good idea but there appeared to be the old “too many chefs spoil the soup” outcome. With the balance of new vs. old, we may avoid this scenario and focus will be more on playing the game and either proving that a seasoned player can prove that the “second” time is the charm or to look out because there is a new kid in town. The first episode normally helps to outline the theme of the seasons (or themes) and as we know, we probably will be able to determine the type of player each contestant will be which also can indicate a fair amount of longevity. Emotional players tend not to be at end game whereas clinical and head of household fare rather well. Under the radar players (if you will recall, “my” version of UTR is not the typically described) also may do quite well but a lot depends on other players involved as opposed to their own game. In any event, another season is just around the corner. Again, while it was readily apparent that information was quite prevalent last season (unless the lack of participation is based on the thread itself which is quite depressing ) I do so enjoy people’s thoughts on the editing itself and how the characters make them feel, what people get out of the episode. Quite often, that helps me get another view as the show is edited to elicit certain feelings, emotions and thoughts which may help tell the tale of the outcome. If anyone also has information on any game situations that may reflect on the editing style (i.e. Exile Island, hidden idols, final three or final two, etc.) I would love to hear about this as the editing does change based upon certain criteria of how the game is being played.   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... byoffer 01-21-08 1    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... PepeLePew13 01-21-08 2  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... michel 01-21-08 3  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 01-21-08 4  stoopid question smokedog 01-22-08 5  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 01-22-08 6    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... VerucaSalt 01-23-08 7  Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: michel 02-10-08 8    RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: girlinglasses 02-10-08 9    RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: Flowerpower 02-11-08 10    RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts: PepeLePew13 02-11-08 11        RE: Episode 1 Editing VerucaSalt 02-11-08 12            RE: Episode 1 Editing suzzee 02-12-08 13  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... mimo 02-12-08 14    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... VerucaSalt 02-13-08 15        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Flowerpower 02-13-08 16        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... michel 02-13-08 17        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Mocha 02-14-08 18            RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... b1whois 02-15-08 19                RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... renila 02-16-08 20  Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: michel 02-16-08 21    RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: Flowerpower 02-17-08 22        RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: Mocha 02-17-08 23            RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: dabeat 02-17-08 24                RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love VerucaSalt 02-18-08 25                    RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love Mocha 02-20-08 26                        RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love b1whois 02-20-08 27                            RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love Flowerpower 02-20-08 28                                RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... b1whois 02-21-08 29                                    RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... b1whois 02-21-08 30                                        RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... CTgirl 02-21-08 31                                            RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider... Mocha 02-21-08 33    RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts: Outfrontgirl 02-21-08 32        Episode #3 Editing Impression: citywitch 02-22-08 34            RE: Episode #3 Editing Impression: Mocha 02-22-08 35                RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts VerucaSalt 02-23-08 36                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-23-08 37                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-23-08 38                            RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-23-08 39                                RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-23-08 40                                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Stevil907 02-24-08 41                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-24-08 42                                            RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Slider 02-24-08 43                                                RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-24-08 44                                                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts VerucaSalt 02-25-08 45                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Misty365 02-25-08 46                                                            RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Erika221 02-25-08 49                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Mocha 02-25-08 47                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts michel 02-25-08 50                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Flowerpower 02-25-08 51                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Outfrontgirl 02-28-08 55                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts mysticjay 03-04-08 63                                                    RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Erika221 02-25-08 48                                                        RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts Modesty 02-26-08 52                RE: Episode #3 Editing Impression: Mocha 02-28-08 56  Survivor Women CTgirl 02-27-08 53  Credits AngelSg86 02-27-08 54    RE: Episode Four Editing VerucaSalt 03-01-08 57        RE: Episode Four Editing Mocha 03-01-08 58            RE: Episode Four Editing michel 03-01-08 59                RE: Episode Four Editing Flowerpower 03-02-08 60                    RE: Episode Four Editing citywitch 03-02-08 61  Question about the Ozzy edit easilydistracted 03-02-08 62  Episode 5 Mocha 03-07-08 64    RE: Episode 5 electropoprebel 03-07-08 67        RE: Episode 5 television 03-07-08 68            RE: Episode 5 electropoprebel 03-07-08 69    RE: Episode 5 PepeLePew13 03-07-08 70        Alexis and Natalie PepeLePew13 03-08-08 71    RE: Episode 5 Erika221 03-09-08 76  Post Episode 5 Commentary Flowerpower 03-08-08 72    RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary michel 03-08-08 73        RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary Flowerpower 03-08-08 74            RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary michel 03-08-08 75            RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary VerucaSalt 03-12-08 81                RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary b1whois 03-12-08 82    RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary Erika221 03-09-08 77        RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary MattyMax 03-10-08 78            RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary Erika221 03-10-08 79  RE: Themes Mocha 03-11-08 80    RE: Themes Mocha 04-01-08 95  Thoughts on Episode #6 michel 03-15-08 83    RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 ohmyheck 03-16-08 84    RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 Flowerpower 03-16-08 85        RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 VerucaSalt 03-17-08 86            RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 VerucaSalt 03-21-08 87                RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 Georgianna 03-21-08 88                RE: Thoughts on Episode #6 PepeLePew13 03-21-08 89                RE: Thoughts on Episode #7 michel 03-21-08 90                    RE: Episode 7 VerucaSalt 03-23-08 91                        RE: Episode 7 michel 03-23-08 92                            RE: Episode 7 Loree 03-23-08 93                                RE: Episode 7 Flowerpower 04-02-08 96                                    RE: Episode 7 Georgianna 04-02-08 97                            RE: Episode 7 PepeLePew13 03-24-08 94  Episode #8: Editing Thoughts michel 04-05-08 98    RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts Georgianna 04-06-08 99        RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts michel 04-06-08 100            RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts citywitch 04-06-08 101            RE: Episode #8: Editing Thoughts Georgianna 04-07-08 102  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... Erika221 04-11-08 103    Episode #9: The Players, The Game, ... michel 04-12-08 104        RE: Episode #9: The Players, The Ga... CTgirl 04-13-08 105            Episode 9 Thoughts VerucaSalt 04-14-08 106  RE: Episode 10 - "best blindside ev... Mocha 04-18-08 107    RE: Episode 10 - "best blindside ev... Slider 04-18-08 108        Episode 10 - Editing Thoughts michel 04-19-08 109            Episode 10 - Editing VerucaSalt 04-19-08 110                RE: Episode 10 - Editing suzzee 04-20-08 111                    RE: Episode 10 - Editing PepeLePew13 04-20-08 112                        RE: Episode 11 - Editing VerucaSalt 04-26-08 113                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing blueahh 04-26-08 114                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing michel 04-26-08 115                                RE: Episode 11 - Editing suzzee 04-27-08 119                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing Flowerpower 04-26-08 116                                RE: Episode 11 - Editing Runnr3003 04-27-08 117                            RE: Episode 11 - Editing suzzee 04-27-08 118                                RE: Episode 12 - Editing VerucaSalt 05-03-08 120                                    RE: Episode 12 - Editing KLicK 05-03-08 121                                    RE: Episode 12 - Editing michel 05-03-08 122                                    RE: Episode 12 - Editing television 05-06-08 123                                        RE: Episode 12 - Editing Slider 05-08-08 124                                            RE: Episode 12 - Editing michel 05-08-08 125  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... suzzee 05-08-08 126  RE: Episode 13 editing Mocha 05-09-08 127    RE: Episode 13 editing michel 05-09-08 128        RE: Episode 13 editing beka 05-10-08 130    RE: Episode 13 editing architecturegirl 05-10-08 129        RE: Episode 13 editing rose1974 05-10-08 131            Editing VerucaSalt 05-11-08 132                RE: Editing michel 05-11-08 133                    RE: Editing architecturegirl 05-11-08 134                        RE: Editing michel 05-11-08 135                            RE: Editing architecturegirl 05-11-08 137                            RE: Editing Flowerpower 05-11-08 138                RE: Editing citywitch 05-11-08 136

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byoffer 10784 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-21-08, 01:02 PM (EST) 1. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Great analysis, VS! There is a lot to go on, especially for the Favs. I think this season will have some team bonding in the alliances (ie Favs, Fans). The winner will likely be someone who can balance between defending his/her team, and defending his/her self. James is the sort of guy that will likely lose because of this. As we saw last season, he thinks team first, and self second. Will he be able to change this?? Just wondering, does Parvati Pavarti rhyme with havarti?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-21-08, 03:21 PM (EST) 2. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" I think it rhymes with Perv-at-it! Welcome back, VS! I look forward to your analysis (and other people's) after the first episode - this is a new thing where we have experienced people playing against newbies so many of the old rules or stereotypes could end up being thrown out of the window. It would be dangerous to expect many of the same type of reads into everyone - I like the fact that you included the Favourites' first description from Jiffy and the second ones as a comparison. Looking forward to the whole season and analyzing it, really.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 01-21-08, 03:42 PM (EST) 3. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Hello Veruca. I’m happy to see you in such fine analytical form! I always say that a season starts when you make your initial comments. I’ll add a few of mine. This season gives us an interesting premise. I’ll be looking at the favorites and asking myself if they are edited in a better light, a worse one or about the same as in their previous season. We all remember how BJ’s edit didn’t change from Palau to Guatemala. He was always the hard working, loyal player and his outcome was practically the same: From 10th to 9th place although he had a chance to fulfill his dream (!) of making the jury. On the other hand, Stephenie’s change from Palau’s "Sweetheart" edit to the Mean Mayan Queen indicated her outcome as the final 2 foil. So, what about this new batch of “Favorites”? - Yau Man was edited as a “Player on a Journey”, out to prove how valuable he could be. He was even a theme unto himself: “Do Not Underestimate Yau Man.” Many mocked him, only Earl saw the value of Yau. He had a lot of airtime from the very first episode so we should be able to see very early if his edit measures up to his previous long term status. Jeff’s words aren’t promising. - James had a “Hero” edit in China. A fan favorite who tried his best but who didn’t quite have a grasp of the game and met a “tragic” end. He was also quite featured in China’s opening episode with his “I want to make them love me” comment and being dubbed “Superman” by Leslie. I doubt he can make it further this time around.(You are right, Veruca, in thinking that the other players won’t know about James’ outcome in China. Filming started in October so the China merge hadn’t happened yet.) - Johnny Fairplay was the “Villain” in his season. Since it was his intent to be that villain, I don’t see any redemption edit. Much the same showing should mean an early exit this time and Jeff’s comment on how effective he is at riling up his opponents doesn’t mean he is effective in outlasting them. - Ozzy had a huge story in the Cook Islands. He had a “Hero” edit playing as King Neptune. From the start, we heard how good he was at this game and it was soon followed by worries about keeping him. How will his edit change if he doesn’t make it as far? Maybe we hear comments that he isn’t that great or maybe we don’t hear any worries about the danger he represents until they decide to vote him off. Since he was a big fan favorite, lack of airtime would be a terrible sign for him. How would his edit change if he were to win? We’d see him making a key strategic alliance from the start and he’d be telling us about the importance of playing a good social game. I don’t hold too much hope for his chances. - Jonathan was the forced “Villain” in the Cook Islands. We heard a lot more about his bad character than we saw before the merge. The thing with CI was that it was edited as if seen from Jonathan’s perspective. In addition, Jonathan didn’t really know how to play the game the first time around. His edit has a lot of room for improvement but it may be hard to tell if it’s because he is a long term player or if it’s because he’s learned a thing or two but not enough to win. If he has a confessional about not playing too hard this time, it would be a great sign. - Parvati was edited first as the “Femme Fatale” only to become the “Lazy Player” once Jonathan turned his attention on her after the mutiny. Hearing Jeff compare her to Amber is certainly something to remember. Being a minor favorite, one who shouldn’t warrant much airtime at the start if she were to leave early, I’d say we should watch for a display of strategy on her part or for positive comments from others. If so, Parvati will be a long term player. - Ami was the “Villain” in Vanuatu. We could have a change of edit just because the editors want to repay the “debt” they have towards her. For one thing, I expect to hear something like “Ami isn’t a bad person” but it wouldn’t mean much if it isn’t backed up by seeing her make good decisions. Jeff’s comments sound promising. - Cirie was edited as being “On a Journey” to make her family proud, to show she can do it. Now that we know just how good she can be at this game, how would she be portrayed if she were to make it far again? For one thing, she was Mama Cirie in Casaya according to post game interviews but we didn’t see much of that. She’s the one who kept the camp organized but since Casaya was to be considered a disorganized tribe, we didn’t see that role. If we see it now, it would be a good sign. On the other hand, if we hear some complain that they don’t need a mother, it would be a bad sign. I wonder if she can steal narration duties from Jonathan. How that role is handled will be something to consider. - Amanda was a “Player on a Journey” to prove she could compete in this game. Her first China confessional was about Fei Long’s strength. She had a memorable moment when she scored a point during a challenge even if her Mom was gonna kill her for losing her top. In addition, we heard her alliance choices were made so that she could win challenges at the end. In effect, as soon as she won her first individual challenge, her game started going downhill. She didn’t play the mental game as well as Todd. Now Jeff tells us “Amanda knows how to play Survivor” which should go without saying. Why stress it for her? Does she demonstrate just how well she has learned to handle the mental game? I like her chances. - Eliza was also a “Player on a Journey”. For her, it was a story of perseverance, of outlasting all the threats around her. As with Yau, Eliza also became a minor theme of her season: “You Target Eliza, You Go Home.” Dolly, Rory, Sarge, Chad, Leann and Ami all considered eliminating her at one point but Twila and Chris decided to use her instead. The rest, as they say…!! I’m really curious to see how she will be portrayed this time. She could be this season’s Courtney Yates but if so, I don’t expect she’d last long. Since James isn’t a “Bitter Betty”, Eliza is the player that has the biggest target for revenge on her back. Will Ami include her in her desired women’s alliance or will she want to see her gone? For some reason, I think the women Favorites are more impressive. Having lost 6 of the last 7 editions, Ami has a great argument to make for the women to stick together. Jonathan has betrayed a male ally to follow a woman before! For the new players, it will be an uphill battle to get airtime! Even with only 2 returning players, many early boots had very little airtime in Guatemala. Jim, Morgan and Briana were practically ignored. Brooke had only a few confessionals. Margaret had a great first episode but then wasn’t much of a factor until her “Victim” edit was used after the twist to show “Judd the Bully” and the birth of the “Axis of Evil”. Airtime should be a good indicator to spot the long term players among our newcomers. One has to remember however that their role could be hidden. Although having some presence early on, Rafe wasn't seen as a mastermind until very late. At the start, I want to see their reactions to the twists of the season. Before speaking to others, each must have thought they were the most knowledgeable player present. When they discovered that they were 10 fans, it had to be already a bad surprise. What do you think was their reaction when they realized that they really knew nothing compared to the favorites? Whoever has the most positive initial confessional about that twist should be one to watch. Immediately, Jamie was doomed when we saw his negative reaction at seeing Steph on his team. On the other hand, a positive confessional about BJ was our introduction to Danni. For now, I note how the men seem to have been chosen to parallel some of the Favorites. Joel vs James for strength battles, the authors Micheal vs Jonathan for the narrator’s role, Jason vs Ozzy for the challenge prowess. The fans seem like pale imitations especially if Erik was picked because he has a bit of Fairplay in him! Will Chet be as valuable an ally as Yau was. Remember Chet “Produces Winners”. Will his ally win? And who will she be? If the Female Favorites give me the impression that they will be a force to reckon with, I don’t expect their fan counterparts to do the same. - Natalie looks like an early boot to me. This, from Jeff, sounds like the kiss of death: “I can't figure out if she has any business being in this game or not…I'm not sure her attitude is going to be able to survive.” - If Natalie isn’t the first fan booted, then surely Kathleen will be. How long does it take to become as miserable as Jeff tells us she will? Sherea was miserable on day 1. - Mary’s description isn’t much better even if she looks more like she could be Chet’s protégée. - Tracy is rather non-descript. Her, seen as a threat? Sounds more like Jeff is already giving us the excuse for her elimination. - For now, I am keeping my eyes on Alexis. She would also be a natural ally for Chet and she looks likeable and to be in good shape for challenges. From the Fans, this is the one I would make my pre-season pick. Can she cross-over and join a women’s alliance on the other side?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-21-08, 03:56 PM (EST) 4. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" LAST EDITED ON 01-21-08 AT 04:10 PM (EST) Great thoughts there, VS, and great to see you! You have provided excellent thoughts on all of the players and I really am looking forward to this season. All of this work is immensely appreciated! I, too, think that it's a great spin on an "All Star" season, Favs vs. Fans. Additionally, the Favs have seen what happened on the last "All Star" Season and I imagine, or would hope that it would help with their game strategy, so-to-speak. It also appears as if they have tried to match the Fans tribe with the Favs tribe more evenly. AT first I was thinking, whoa, with Ozzy and James together, how could anyone else compete....then I got a look at Joel and Jason, and I think Erik may as well be a strong competitor...these three strong guys may give the Fans a bit of an edge, but, the Fans girls are not as impressive to me as the Favs ladies. Will be fun to watch...my money is still on Ozzy though. There is a new promo out that states an initial assessment or statement regarding their plan from each of the daws. It's running on TV now, I would like to post it(the voiceover) here for you to see as well, gives us a little insight as to how the show may perhaps edit them coming in...what do you think? Let me know and I will do it! It fits in nicely with Jeff's assessments, especially the comments that he makes 'if they can change or learn then maybe...'. Let me know, and I will bring it over. Thanks for everything that you do, remember, I may not alwyas post in here, but I always savor it. You are just so good at all of this stuff, alot of us are amazed! Looking FORWARD to it all! ETA: When I updated the post, I saw that Michel had commented as well. WAVES to MICHEL!!! I loved what you added - definately I feel the same about the Ladies on the fans tribe, not real impressive so far. But regarding your statement about Natalie, - Natalie looks like an early boot to me. This, from Jeff, sounds like the kiss of death: “I can't figure out if she has any business being in this game or not…I'm not sure her attitude is going to be able to survive.” I just wanted to remind you that Jeff said something very similiar regarding Lydia, and she made it to the final 4! You never know! fp   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

smokedog 1780 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-22-08, 02:15 AM (EST) 5. "stoopid question" Jeff's comments: He said them before Micronesia started or he's saying them with the benefit of hindsight after filming?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 01-22-08, 08:46 AM (EST) 6. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Thought I would post the voiceover here from the latest promo. It gives clips from dialogue with the DAWs, but clearly it is just what the editors choose to show us regarding their pre-game thoughts... Here is my take on this: 1. Amanda: They don't choose to give us any of her pre-game, she's just honored to be there...doesn't sound like she is too serious or intent on winning the money....or is it just a red herring? This is a contrast in what Jeff had to say about her...are they editing her differently? 2. Ami: She is going to be quieter, not so outfront? She is amending her game play, but according to Jeff, she is still going to go for the women's alliance...to me, this doesn't really mesh, she is telling us that she will change her approach but Jeff infers that she is still going after the same strategy... 3. Cirie just comments on her effect on others to get off the couch....sounds like the same stuff to me. Jeff expects alot out of her, but her edit sounds similiar in the very beginning... 4. Eliza: The perfect combination of everything...sounds very confident...Jeff comments on how she gets it and how she's fun to watch...doesn't sound promising for longevity to me. 5. James: He's commenting on the others there, they are great strategists and it will be tough...sounds as though he's intimidated almost...and then Jeff comments that he doesn't think James gets it...sounds like a very similiar experience to his first show...he won't win or last to end game, imo. He didn't learn from the first go round perhaps? 6. Jonathan: Notes no one is trustworthy there... Not too profound of a statement, will they edit him as a villain again? Maybe, if his edit doesn't change will he last to the end? This is what michel has noted from the previous all stars and BJ and Steph...Jeff seems to think he has learned from the first go round, and he notes that he plays to win, could be an end game player perhaps? 7. JFP: No regrets with lying, does he have more tricks up his sleeve, absolutely. He even wears a hat, "Will lie for food". Same JFP, same edit, Jeff notes he has no chance to end game, I'm in agreement... 8. Ozzy: Going to be WAY more personable and make connections with everyone...he is stating pretty much just what Jeff said he needed to do...he lacked the social skills, in other words if he developed his social skills he could do well. Clearly Ozzy seems to have a realistic assessment and plan for this game, but can he carry it off? His physical prowess will definately keep him safe for a while, but is it enough time for him to develop the social ties that he needs to last? 9. Parvati: More cynical, less trusting, and more devious. Jeff notes that she could be this seasons Amber...that in and of itself says alot to me. If she's figured it out and what if she teams up with somebody? To me this says that she will team up with somebody, and I don't think it will be a female. Could she make it to end game? 10. Yau-man: Knows it's going to be physical and he won't get away with how he played the game the last time...Jeff also notes that he can not play the same way this time....so, again Yau knows that going in as well, can he change, is he capable of playing a different game, I don't know. Clearly his assets are as a resource to surviving on the island, and by offering your vote to someone else, riding coattails. There are others there that already know how to survive on the island, they have done it before....so, to me his strengths are not needed, he's not strong, and there are other smart peeps out there, he could offer his vote to a strong player that may need him to avoid being a boot later, either James or Ozzy. I think Yau-man is doomed. 11. Alexis: Behind my dimples I'm fiercely competitive...and serious. Jeff notes essentially the same observation and he picks her over all of the fans...on appearances she seems the only formidable girl there, I think she could possibly have a shot at end game. Will be interesting how she plays it. 12. Chet knew he'd be on Survivor some day...no insight into game play, but Jeff notes that Chet "gets it"....I think he will be one to watch as well. The pagaent business is truly cut throat, he will be FUN to watch and could last long. Will he line up with the girls or the strong guy? 13. Erik: Lives life sporadically, doesn't have any plan. Jeff notes he's enthusiastic but immature and could get played. Editing him as happy go lucky, no real plan? Is this a total red herring or is he destined to be an early out? He's a track runner, could be a good competitor and he appears to get off to the fastest start in the first competiton of the show? I think he'll be out by mid show. 14. Jason: I was raised on an Island like this, this is going to be like another day at the beach....Jeff: He has a man crush on Ozzy and thinks he can best him...I say, yeah, right! It seems like they got him as he could possibly be a cross between Yau-man and Ozzy, this I've got to see! If he is, he will win this game. Make no mistake though, my money is on Ozzy Could be interesting if he chooses wisely and gets into a good alliance, if he is like Ozzy, he'll be a mid game player perhaps? 15. Joel: Doesn't know if he's a super hero, but will try! He notes that he is here for his family, has his eye dead set on the prize, it sounds like this will be work for him. Jeff notes that while his physical strength could make him a target, he thinks Joel's will be advantageous...clearly he will at least make the merge. I like this guy. He appears larger than life, he seems humble and grounded and FOCUSED. He could be a winner...If I were a betting girl, I'd say he could take James, but in the water my $ is still on Ozzy, Joel looks like he would sink like a rock. He definately looks like a character, I hope he is not a "journey" player... 16. Kathy: She sticks her foot in her mouth, I'll ask the boob girl...she's a self described misfit...Jeff thinks Kathy will be tested by the conditions and as previously noted he brings up EI when talking about her. Clearly she's destined for EI. She seems like an idiot to me...to me her only way of making it would be like a Courtney....make it to the merge and you will perhaps have a shot as the lesser target...sounds like her mouth will get her into trouble long before that. Shows no physical abilities...I think she's an early boot candidate. 17. Mary: She feels she should be doing this show...she's money driven...Jeff thinks she will have trouble, noting what she needs to do...hmmm, I don't think his commentary or hers lends much. She is "the boob girl"...if she's smart and gets a handle on the group dynamics early, perhaps she could make the merge, but Jeff doesn't sound confident at all... 18. Mikey B: I've never been camping, Jeff notes how good "Boston" is to Survivor....hmmmm, sounds like he could be a narrator. He also sounds like a cross between Cirie and Boston Rob...or Rocky??? He wants to be everyone's best friend....I think they will need him at first, and if he's the narrator I give him a vote of confidence...could he make end game? 19. Natalie: Survivor incorporates mind, body, spirit??? Jeff questions her attitude, and doesn't know about her...she will be tested...Doesn't sound particularly promising from Jeff, could she be a villain? To tell you the truth the only female that appears to have any fortitude at all to me on this tribe is Alexis. While Natalie is a physical trainer, there is certainly not much substance to her. I think the Favs women will demolish the fans women...we shall see. 20. Tracy: I've seen other women my age on the show and they are not attractive...I am. I am a thrill seeker. Jeff notes that she's a builder and could be an asset, like Boston Rob, but could be seen as too threatening. Hmmmm, not an overly exciting assessment. She could be a misfit, is she on a journey, out to prove something. Sorry, the fans women just don't cut it for me...certainly doesn't appear motherly in anyway... With all of the commentary I have the most hope for Jonathan, Parvati, Amanda, and perhaps because I am such a fan, Ozzy, also liked that he is stating pregame what Jeff says he has to do as well. Clearly Ozzy is wishful thinking. For the Fans tribe I think that Alexis, Mikey B, Chet and perhaps Joel have the best chance.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 01-23-08, 10:11 AM (EST) 7. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" I am so glad to see that this new way of old vs. new has made others excited as well. I do really believe it will allow a whole new dynamic; I hope it comes out as good as I anticipate as I was a bit disappointed in All Stars though not very surprised. byoffer and pepe - so glad to see you in here and I do hope we see more from you since (as already stated) we were sorely lacking in discussion and I get as much enjoyment in reading opinions as I do in watching the show. smoke - to be quite honest, I do not really know the timeline - however - Jeff Probst is extremely astute after all this time and there is no question in my mind (regardless of how far into the show or not that he makes these comments) that his thoughts are relevant. Very nice categorization Michel on how the past players were reflected and I would tend to agree with those assessments. As you know I tend to look at what the "story" is first and then we can see how the players are edited to further that story. Ami is a perfect example (and Jonathan as well) of a character who was not really a villain but needed to be created as such which I recall stating emphatically in both their seasons. It is painfully obvious when someone is just a dirty player and when someone is being modified editing wise to create the storyline. There will no doubt be some villains created, underdogs, supermen/women and the like - the most interesting reveal to myself will be (with respect to the favorites) is if they are portrayed in the same type of vein or differently. Let's not forget that Amber was quite a different player from Australia (or so we were led to believe...) The balance of personalities of fans v. favorites that was brought up is not surprising. On paper, the similarities are "on the mark." We can only wait and see if they shine through - I recall Stephanie from Thailand and how Jeff said what happened to the girl we saw on the video? For them to pick similar qualities between the fans and the favorites is for obvious reasons; whether these fans come through is another thing. fp - thank you for adding those commentaries; I was going to tell you to please do so This sounds like a very eager bunch of "fans" but they have a battle with the likes of some of these "favorites"   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-10-08, 02:30 PM (EST) 8. "Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" The introduction of Micronesia’s story left me with these impressions of its participants: Airai The Jamies: As with this character from Guatemala who said he couldn’t possibly win with Stephenie on his tribe and became a villain when he developed a conflict with Bobby Jon, these are the members of Airai that already have become characters, some of which may even become this season’s Villains: Kathleen gave Yau Man a big cheer and had a confessional: “These are the people I’ve watched on TV so there’s that certain awe about them, especially Yau. I saw him come out with his little Yau Man hat and his glasses and I love the Yau Man.” Walking along the beach of the second island, Kathleen got some help from her idol who showed where Fairplay had dropped Airai’s Idol. After jumping for joy, she commented: “Thanks to Yau Man, I have immunity for the very first tribal council that we go to. I’m like…safe!” It didn’t take long for Kathleen to make an impression on her tribe: “I knew Chet was a homosexual right away, you know, you can just tell he is. But I’ve never been friends with a homosexual. I worked with somebody in the 19…80s, bartending, that was gay, but that’s been about it.” Kathleen ended the scene by saying: “I’m sure I got off on the wrong foot. I’m sure it pays to keep your mouth shut but I just can’t help myself.” Kathleen was crying in her next confessional: “Tonight’s the first night here and the downpour came and it was hard and it didn’t stop. I hope by morning I feel a whole lot better because right now, this sucks.” Kathleen has already been portrayed as the “Dumb Player”. As such, she can’t last very long in this story. Erik had a confessional during the player introduction: “I know a lot about Ozzy in terms of the competition. He’s won all of the challenges. I’m a track and cross country runner. I think I have what it takes to compete at that level.” After reaching the second island first, Erik said: “I worked my ass off to get across that stretch of water. I beat Ozzy. That’s good, that’s what I wanted to do. I needed to show him what I’m made of.” During the challenge, Erik probably didn’t make any friends with the Favorites when he threw sand on them. Having worked hard to put a target on his own back, Erik could become another “Dumb Player” or he can evolve into a real “Villain”. He has shown some cockiness already and conflicts could soon emerge. As a villain, he would have a chance at a longer stay in the game but that role still isn’t one that befits the winner. Tracy started off by saying: “I’m a fan, so coming to survivor and starting a game on the beach…Jeff, seeing him there, it was surreal.” She soon added: “I wanted to throw up when I saw Johnny Fairplay. He’s a pig, a loser pig. I would love one moment to kick him. One moment to kick him hard in the shin.” After showing her tribe how she felt about Fairplay, Tracy went on: “I’m a fan, I’m not somebody who simply said ‘Oh! Let’s be on survivor.’ Now that we are playing the favorites, we’re out for blood.” Which way will Tracy’s story evolve now that Fairplay is gone? She seems determined to play the game but we heard nothing to suggest she could come out on top. We do have indications she could still become a villain but we’ll need more information on her before we can see where she fits in the story. The Briannas: These are the players from Airai that weren’t part of the story of episode #1. Unless they find a role soon, they won’t fare any better than the woman who was nothing more than an extra, a nobody, in Guatemala’s story. Mary didn’t have a confessional but she was focused on a lot when the Favorites walked in. Maybe she’s a little star-struck! Natalie wasn’t given a role in this episode. Chet talking with Kathleen about being gay is the extent of his contribution to the first episode. Joel, goaded on by Erik, had this to say during the introductions: “When I saw James coming around the corner, I got excited. He is, up until this season, the biggest and strongest that has ever played the game. I think I can take him.” Joel, a man of few words, listened to Eliza and Fairplay recount how everything was great at Malakal and when Jeff asked him if he was “buying all this?” he answered “No” to which Fairplay responded with the title quote “You guys are dumber than you look.” Joel shrugged and said: “If it’s true good for them. They can get fat and happy and we’ll just win the challenges.” As Jeff said, Airai worked well together and did win the challenge. Putting the “Hulk” in the category described by one of the worst challenge players ever can look strange but I’m talking about contribution to the story. Joel had no real impact. He wasn’t even mentioned by Jeff during the challenge as he pulled Airai’s cart to victory. He certainly didn’t equal the splash James made in China’s first episode. It’s early enough that his role can evolve and he may become a character but for now, the impression is that Joel won’t help Airai with enough challenge wins. The Dannis: These are the members of Airai who have made a subtle impact on the story despite going up against the returning players. If a Fan wins this game, he may already be in this group. Alexis, right after receiving her Airai buff, had a confessional: “I think the fans versus the favorites stuff is the ultimate challenge. Because we have the favorites who obviously have played this game before so they’re coming in here with the experience but at the same time you have us and we know their game, we know, not only their strengths but their weaknesses too. I think that puts us at a huge advantage.” Witnessing Kathleen’s encounter with Chet, Alexis had a big smile when she commented: “Kathy definitely…she just kinda puts her foot in her mouth sometimes.” (The editor showed that Alexis was someone we can believe by letting us hear right then Kathleen telling Tracy ‘I’ve never seen implants, ever’) Alexis told Micheal, Erik, Joel and Jason that Kathy just made a comment about Tracy’s boobs. That got an immediate response from Jason: ‘It’s a good thing she got the immunity idol.” After the challenge win, the camera focused on Alexis as she was holding the immunity idol. I was waiting to see which Fan would get the key positive confessional about the twist and it was Alexis who was chosen to deliver it. She told us of each tribe's advantage and how she can profit from it. It showed her as a player, one to keep an eye on. Her confessional could indicate she wants to prove she can play the strategic game. How far could that take her? Jason had the first confessional for the fans: “I’ve always been a huge fan of Survivor. When we pulled up on the boat, it was a torrential downpour. One of my life’s dream has been to come out and try to survive in the wild, so this is really incredible for me.” As soon as Airai reached their beach, Jason had a second confessional: “When we first pulled up to the beach, it was really exciting. We’re the fans of Survivor. This is all of our dreams to be here. We want to kick the favorites’ asses.” Jason had a confessional about Kathy: “The second the crazy lady found the immunity idol, I think everyone was a little worried because we all felt as a consensus that she was going to be the first one to go.” Showing that the favorites did have an early advantage, we went to Airai’s camp at night and saw them still working on their shelter after we had just been shown Malakal going to bed. Jason had a confessional: “Tonight is night number one and we took too long to find a location to build our shelter. It didn’t come along as planned.” The rain came and we stayed in Airai to see the conditions. We weren’t shown if Malakal had such problems. To stress the point, when the sun rose the next morning, we were back in the Favorites’ camp. The contrast looked like the editor’s way of proving the value of experience. Jason was the one who stepped forward to receive the idol and the flint from Jeff, a possible indication that he is taking the lead for the tribe. Jason has already taken the role of narrator for Airai and he could even be their leader. As narrator, he will probably last to the merge. We will have time until then to see just how much of a factor he will be after that. Micheal started by describing the members of Airai: “Our tribe consists of ‘Big Bird’ (Kathleen), the Southern Princess’ (Alexis), we got the ‘Incredible Hulk’ (Joel), we got ‘Jon Bon Jovi in his prime’ (Jason) and then we got ‘Queer Eye for the Straight Guy’ (Chet). Man! It’s gonna be a crew, Ha! Ha! Let me tell you!” Micheal also had the confessional about the tree mail that Chet and Tracy brought back: “I think everybody is biting at the bit, just to get in the game. And I think the favorites are chuckling at us right now saying that we are going to be a piece of cake and that they are going to walk all over us. They are not looking at us as competitors, that’s good, even better as underdogs. We’ll take that role.” It looks like we have our second narrator in Airai. I found it interesting that he didn’t mention Mary, Natalie, Erik and Tracy in his description of the Airai crew. Two potential villains and two women who weren’t part of the story. Add Kathleen and we would have a viable pre-merge boot list, editing-wise. Some of the persons named could be part of Micheal’ alliance and this ‘crew’ could take over the tribe. Micheal’s first comment was a funny description of the tribe and being the funny narrator could be Micheal’s only impact. Malakal The Bobby Jons: Members of Malakal who didn’t get any enhancement from their previous showing. Unless their story start to take off soon, they will be leaving before the end game. Cirie told us: “People at home, watching, identify with me. I’m like the person at home watching, I’m on the couch, remember. I was the couch potato.” After the challenge loss, Cirie told her tribe that she may not swim as well as Ozzy but she did pretty good in the challenge. In a confessional, she gave us her thoughts: “We’re going to tribal council and I do not have a plan at all. I have no idea what I’m gonna do right now. I don’t really trust any of these people. I don’t care, I’ll get rid of anybody as long as it’s not me.” Despite her lackluster first episode, Cirie’s best chance at becoming an end game player is that she’s now the swing vote between the two alliances. Showing more of her could have ruined the suspense regarding which side will take over. She would fit nicely with Yau Man, Ami and Jonathan, the mature alliance, but Cirie aligned with the young and crazy before! She may also feel more connections with James. We have to note however that Cirie was quite a narrator in Exile Island so being almost ignored by the editors is a bad sign for her. Amanda had a meeting at night, when we saw Ozzy talking to her about an alliance: “I will totally be honest with you. If you saw my season, you could know that if I say I’m gonna stick to something, I do it.” Amanda agreed: “It’s so funny that you’re here because you were one of my favorite players. I don’t know, I think that’s really cool.” Amanda has the smallest reputation among the Favorites so her story has time to evolve. This was Fairplay’s episode after all so it’s difficult to assess Amanda’s prospects for the end game. Even if her introduction was much less than stellar, we will reserve judgment on her future. Ami was walking on the beach on day 3, just before tribal council, when Johnny told her how having a baby changes things. She asked: “Is there any way that I can talk you into staying in?” There wasn’t. Ami then had her only confessional of the episode: “Fairplay is a loose canon. Fairplay said to me that he wanted to go home. He just puts you on your serious stance guard because you don’t know ever what he means.” Ami then let her alliance know about her discussion, telling them it could be a ploy. “He could pull a fast one” she said. Her confessional continued: “I just have to be careful that he doesn’t do anything crazy. I’m a little worried that Fairplay is gonna come together with James, Ozzy, Amanda and Parvati. All I know is that, tonight, tribal council is gonna be crazy because, if I know Johnny Fairplay, he’s gonna stir things up.” It seems the editors will be repaying an old debt to Ami as she doesn’t appear to be the villainess this time. When we saw her, it was as a careful, calculating player. It’s troublesome for her future that she practically played no role in this episode but she also has time to grow. James had an early confessional: “I thought I should be on the fan side because I’m a fan of all these people. For me, to see Yau and Ozzy, it’s crazy.” James quickly impressed Parvati with his work. He confided: “I definitely appreciate the hard work that goes around in this camp. It’s so much nicer to have everybody pulling the rope, getting everything together, helping each other. I almost wanted to give somebody a hug because it was really nice.” ( We then heard Eliza in agreement, saying it’s “so much nicer than day 1 of last time) James’ confessional went on: “I mean, we all know what we’re doing already. The favorites definitely should have an advantage over the fans.” Hearing James talk about Parvati reminded me of Nathan who was worried he’d be the dum-dum who wouldn’t see he was being used. It wouldn’t be James’ first mistake. His portrayal was mainly the same as in China’s first episode except that this time, he was the one saying he loved his tribemates rather than hoping to get their love. It would appear that James won’t do much better than in China. Yau Man was introduced saying: “The only reason to come back is for the million dollars. That’s the only reason I’m gonna put up with a lot of suffering and bugs and smelly people.” After seeing Fairplay grab the Airai Immunity Idol, Yau plunged for the one on the Malakal boat, tackling John on the side of the boat before grabbing it. He commented: “All these idols seem to like me. I hope there will be other idols along the way this season and they will be all mine.” Fairplay did tell us “Yau Man’s not nice. He sucks. Soon as that idol’s gone, see you later, bucko.” Day #3 began with Yau Man going to work on building a fire: “I’m trying to focus the sun onto this, quote, unquote, dry coconut husk. With a drop of water on my glasses to act as a magnifying glass, a very nice magnifying glass, the sun is almost vertical enough that this should work. It did work in Fiji.” Yau Man proved his value once more as Eliza noted in confessional: “Yau Man got our fire started miraculously.” At TC, Yau Man answered Jeff when asked about his smile at one of Johnny’s answers: “My first thought is what is his scheme. It’s just a strange thing to say suddenly out of the blue.” Ozzy and Jonathan, however, told Jeff they thought Johnny was sincere in his desire to go home. Even if Yau Man had a better first episode than the other 4 ‘Bobby Jons’, his strategy once again centered around the Hidden Immunity Idol. It’s troubling that very little fanfare was made over his fire making abilities. We did hear Eliza exclaim it was miraculous but Yau Man didn’t even receive the acknowledgment he received in Fiji when all he did was open a box. No one mentioned the value of Yau Man. Not even Jeff. His alliance with Jonathan, another strong, mature man could remind us of the one with Earl but there’s a huge difference: Jonathan has a strong polarizing character while Earl had the uncanny ability to bring people together. The Stephenies : It took a few episodes for Stephenie to become the ‘Mean Mayan Queen’ so for now, I only see one candidate for this less than enviable position: This Favorite will get a lot of airtime but not necessarily in the best of light. If this is indeed his role, then we can say he won’t win this game. We can consider however that he will last long into the game. Jonathan had the first confessional of the season : “You could be a fan of the Boston Red Sox but you don’t want to play against the Bosox because you’re gonna get your ass handed to you.” (I found it interesting that the editors chose the mutiny as the moment to remember Jonathan) Jonathan was the first player to target someone from his original season when he said Ozzy or Parvati were the ones to vote out. He quickly rallied to Eliza’s suggestion as he explained in a confessional: “I think we should take Parvati out first. Parvati is a much bigger threat as a social player than Ozzy is. Fairplay’s a gem to have on your alliance. He needs us much more than we need him. You keep him around for as long as possible. Hell! I’d take him to the end if I could.” (Like Fairplay said: “Have you not watched this show before!”) After the challenge, we saw Malakal’s slow walk back to camp which was followed by a confessional from Jonthan: “We tried hard, lost. There’s no shame in losing. These fans are so excited so enthusiastic. They are playing Survivor, it’s their dream and they just had more heart out there.” Despite his early resolution, Jonathan seems to once more be playing too hard, too fast, especially when he talked of taking Fairplay to the end. Part of that was to redeem Fairplay’s own story but it looked like the beginning of the story of a “Villain”. Jonathan is a marvelous character and an amusing narrator. He should make this season very entertaining. He was forced on us as the “Villain” of Cook Islands so it could be a repeat performance. Of course, it wouldn’t take much to turn him into a very clinical player which would make him a strong candidate for the victory. His problem right now is more with his target’s portrayal than his own. More on her later. Either way he turns out, we’ll have to keep an eye on Jonathan! The Ambers: If a favorite is our winner, we will find him or her in this group. They will be more fleshed out than in their first appearance Parvati started by saying: “Coming back, I’m playing really aggressively and it’s pretty much no holds barred for me.” After agreeing with Eliza that they had a good group where everyone was already bonding, Parvati had a confessional: “I have to win this time, it’s my second time. I’m not coming back here to starve and be miserable. I was a flirt on Cook Islands and that’s it. There was no other dimension to me at all, I don’t think.” We saw her trying to give James a piggy-back ride and then she went on: “Outwardly, I’m still gonna be flirty but I am playing smart this time.I want to make the right alliances with people I know I can trust. This time, there’s only one guy to flirt with really, it’s the big guy, James.” James was agreeing saying that “Parvati is definitely attractive. There’s something about her, she’s like a sex kitten. I like it.” We then saw James picking up Parvati. An indication on how she advances in the game, maybe? In the talks prior to tribal council, Parvati went to collect water with Fairplay when he started to break down, thinking about his little girl. The scene seemed to flow naturally with JFP’s confessional cutting in while the two walked but first Parvati had her buff around her torso but then, suddenly, she had her bikini top on and they were collecting firewood. How much did Parvati play into making Johnny ask the tribe to “let it be me”? What we did hear was a change of music to a very dramatic theme as Parvati told him maybe he should say he wanted to go home. “It would throw Eliza off the scent” she told him. Parvati, the girl who was portrayed as not being able to decide on who to vote out in Cook Islands, then had a crucial confessional: “I don’t know, it might be just too crazy but I came up with this little plan to distract Jonathan, Eliza, Yau Man and Ami into voting for Fairplay while we vote out Eliza because I don’t want Eliza turning around and trying to snake me.” Is it just an impression or was Parvati the leader of her little alliance?! This girl, who played a good game by just floating in the Cook Islands, is now presented as a schemer. When I said Jonathan’s main problem was her portrayal, I meant that it would have been very easy to present Parvati as nothing more than before, someone who isn’t a true survivor and, therefore, has to go. Showing her playing the game a little more smartly makes Jonathan look like the villain, especially since she didn’t target him. He’s the traitor again while she’s trying to improve her chances and not even talking about grudges. If she is the winner, then we really have another Amber. Ozzy told us: “People are all trying to beat me now. Hopefully, I can tap into that same energy and will that I had last time.” As soon as Malakal hit their beach, Ozzy had a confessional: “The fact that we, the favorites, have played this game before, I think that is our biggest advantage. It’s an expectation that we gotta live up to.” Ozzy took a walk with Parvati and Fairplay to scheme. Parvati told John “We’re voting Eliza out.” Ozzy explained their thinking to us: “We are weary a little of Eliza, just hearing about the way she played the game in Vanuatu. She’s shifty, crafty. Some of us feel that we can’t really trust her. I’m a little nervous because Fairplay has got his villain personna to live up to so maybe he will just betray everyone he can. I don’t know but at this point, we need Fairplay.” One may object that Ozzy had a much less stellar introduction than during Cook Islands’ first episode but I was impressed that we DIDN’T hear anything about ‘Dolphin Boy’ or ‘King Neptune’. We KNOW he has those abilities so I found it very important for his chances to see that his other abilities were focused on. Ozzy was well liked by many in CI (Nate, Parvati, Sundra, JP, Cece, Flica, Cao Boi in particular) but the lingering impression was that he had a bad social game. The editors hid his strategic abilities to present Yul as the puppetmaster. This time, we saw Ozzy socializing and strategizing smartly, instead of Oscar arrogantly throwing a challenge to get rid of Billy. A promising start. Eliza’s first moment was her flashback to Vanuatu where she said: “You plotted against me since Day 1.” Micronesia has started the same way for Eliza, as she was once again the early target. She doesn’t seem to have yet heeded Twila’s advice to “Chill out.” When they got in camp, Eliza started talking, (!) telling Malakal: “Can we make a pact right now that we are going to kick their asses?” Eliza had a confessional about the developments in camp: “I’d say that I have pretty keen powers of observation. From what I can tell Amanda and Ozzy have this rapport with one another already…And, ever since we got here, Parvati hasn’t been able to take her hands and her eyes off of James. She’s definitely going to have him wrapped around her finger. I think there’s definitely going to be romance bubbling between both Parvati and James and Amanda and Ozzy and that makes all four of them very dangerous.” At the start of Day #2, while Ozzy was rubbing coconut oil on Amanda’s back and Parvati was resting her sleepy head on James’s shoulder, Eliza gathered Ami, Jonathan and Yau Man for talks of an alliance. She had a confessional: “Amy, Yau Man, Jonathan and myself, the four of us are a tight alliance. But, the problem is there’s another foursome out here…We’re really worried about that foursome and we are worried they would try to pull in Fairplay and Cirie.” She told her group they needed a 5th to which Jonathan proposed Fairplay. Eliza wasn’t too happy! “Wait a minute. I don’t trust him.” To prove she was right to worry, just then the camera cut to Parvati, Ozzy and Fairplay! However, the “likeable person” then came back to tell Jonathan, Ami and Eliza that the other four “are a done deal. They want Eliza out.” With Jonathan’s help, Eliza started trying to turn the tables and target Parvati. After seeing Yau Man start a fire Eliza had this confessional: “We have fire, we’ve been eating, we’ve been drinking we are well rested, we are fully hydrated and we are ready to kick some butt.” She even rubbed it in Airai’s face when they arrived at the Immunity Challenge: “Jeff, you have no idea the advantage we have. Not only do we have a shelter, we have fire, we have food, we have full bellies. We are so excited and so pumped for this challenge. Ready to kick some butt.” At Tribal Council, Eliza answered Jeff’s question about reputations: “It’s definitely a factor. Whether or not somebody says I’m just gonna get to know you for you, it doesn’t matter, it’s going to be in the back of their head. The things you did, the moves you made and how you interacted with people. It’s gonna play a factor in how people vote.” We saw the usual paranoia from Eliza when, asked if Johnny was in fact quitting, she told Jeff no because “There’s still a possibility in my mind that Fairplay is not going home tonight. I don’t think there’s one person who didn’t bring all their stuff with them and we are still voting.” Despite being shown on camera as telling her team about the proposed pact to kick Airai’s asses, Eliza didn’t get a confessional to tell us about it, so that could indicate either Malakal doesn’t accomplish the task or Eliza isn’t there to finish the job. It will take quite a reversal of fortune for both Parvati and Eliza to co-exist until the end. The fact that Eliza was the one shown to have the false confessional about her tribe’s readiness to win the challenge is another troubling sign for her future. But Vanuatu has taught me not to underestimate this little fighter. This was an intense episode for her. It signals that either her story will soon reach its climax, or she does become an impact player. She may simply need time and a Malakal winning streak.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

girlinglasses 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-10-08, 10:22 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" I've been reading this thread for many, many years and am a huge fan of all of yours. I thought I'd chime in this time around. I'm not nearly as articulate or insightful as the regulars in this thread though1 I posted this on my blog prior to reading Michel's post above - but fully admit to being influenced by the pre-premiere analysis above and some of the speculating in the fans forum - I hope I don't appear to be "stealing" anyone's ideas!! **** What a terrific opening episode. I love the fans versus favourites theme and I’m sure the producers were thrilled that the fans won the first challenge - it made sure the favs wouldn’t get cocky - though they don’t strike me as a particularly cocky bunch. It set the right tone though and lit a fire under the favorites for future challenges. I think Jonathan is around to stay and has a shot at the win…unless he ends up being the narrator who almost wins, in which case his primary alliance-mate will be someone to watch. I was disappointed to see Parvati hooking up with James, but not because I don’t like her… My pre-game thought was that she and Jonathan might align and I saw them going far together. Parvati could play Amber’s strategy or Amanda’s (without the poor final counsel showing). Also, right off the bat she was quoted saying she knows she needs to do more than just flirt this time, which isn’t to say, no flirting at all! She proved herself though with her cagey chat with Jonny Fairplay - she’s playing to win. And did I hear a million dollar quote from her??? Seeing the episode though Eliza is actually a good alliance mate for Jonathan if Parvati ends up loosing her focus with James in the picture. both Jonathan and Eliza are known to be shifty and will need to prove loyalty (and obtain loyalty) to at least one other person to be successful. Yau is a perfect third. Cirie’s absence for the episode makes me think she isn’t a key player, nor is she an early exit. I don’t know what I think of Ozzie and Amanda…would the favs be so stupid as to allow a coupledom? On the fans side, Mikey B. looks very promising! And H-O-T too. I think he’s going to be a major narrator this season. Also, I read he’s a writer/actor just like Jonathan. I loved his description of his tribemates! Also notable were the two young men, Erik and Jason. The woman were mostly a blur, though Alexis looked promising from a strategy and placement perspective. And of course, glad to see JFP gone in a flash. He takes up waaaay too much screen time. Buh-bye Jonny!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-11-08, 09:53 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-11-08 AT 10:01 AM (EST) Hi everyone, thrilled that the show is off and running! I was so excited about this season and seeing some of my personal favorites back, and I too love the premise, Fans vs. Favorites. I think the theme of the show was hammered in through the entire episode, a real polarization of sorts, with the Fans winning the IC, showing the Favorites that if they don't get their act together, they won't be around that long. My thoughts were a bit different than michel's, but I always LOVE your thoughts, and you are so wise! I thought the key quotes and confessionals from the fans were basically from Alexis, Jason, and Mikey B. Everyone else was insignificant to me, Kathleen is just downright distracting, to them especially. But we all know that the distracting one can end up being the final 3 goat, although I do not think she will be. For the most part I thought that Jason and Mikey B were the narrators, which makes me think they could be out mid game. I still feel that we have not heard the "million dollar quote" from either tribe, but who knows, maybe there won't be one this season. I was impressed that Erik tried to sabotage the Fav's while they were digging in the sand pit...interesting, I think he's definately moving the target from other strong players backs(Ozzy, James, Joel, etc) to his own. AS michel noted, he's out to best Ozzy, and this is his story, perhaps. Somehow I do not think that he will.... Tracy, Mary, Kathleen, all seemed very unimpressive to me, and probably not much worth in challenges, I don't know. Natalie was not really seen in this episode, will she be developed later or is she a non-entity. Chet I think is there for entertainment value, but doesn't seem like a competitor to me, but will he have a social game? Not that impressive to me either in the first show. Joel, big, but not much else there. I was the most impressed with Alexis and Jason after ep 1. I worry with Jason's narrator role that he, as I noted earlier could be gone midgame. Favorites: Key confessionals, imo were from Yauman, Ozzy, and Parvati. I want to talk about Jonathan, as he did have the first confessional. It surprises me how many people absolutely love him. I enjoy his rhetoric, he's amusing, but I don't think he is the serious gamer that so many folks on the boards do. Last time he played I thought he acted without thinking much of the time. He definately presents with game on, but he's too quick to commit to the wrong folks and it burns him in the end. I think his game is starting out the EXACT same way, he's quick to commit to the wrong people, and I think it will indeed burn him. This is just my personal feelings....if I played, I would KNOW that you have to keep the strong around or you won't have the numbers at the merge. I would be thrilled to go with folks that showed romantic interest in each other, as this is most LIKELY to throw greater targets on their backs, and less of one on yours. I think that Cirie will indeed figure this out...I predict that she will align with the couples as they all will have a much stronger target on their backs, and they will indeed get you to the merge if you vote with them, as they are strong and challenge hogs....just my thoughts here. If the alliance of Jonathan, Ami, Eliza, and Yau-man outlasts the couples, I predict the FAVs will go to merge with less numbers. I think if the couples make it to the merge, than they are likely to bring more numbers. Of course all of this oculd be foiled with tribal swaps, and I'm sure that we will see some of these. Yau-man, definately playing the same game. Jonathan, playing the same game as well and is indeed one of the narrators, so I think he will be out midgame. Eliza joins him as the other narrator, and thus she will most likely not make end game. Cirie I think is a real enigma as we do not know where she stands at all, I hated her confessional about having no plan and doesn't know what to do...that did not leave me with faith in her end game, but as I noted above, she is in the power position, will she capitalize on it, or will it be her downfall. Ami, I liked her initial role in this ep, she was first to suggest the alliance of 4. Eliza just downright gets on my nerves, she just won't shut up, but I suppose she is entertaining. Now for the couples...as you all know, I am a huge Ozzy fan. I loved his pure dedication to winning the game on his SOLE efforts, I also think he is an extremely smart/intelligent player, besting anyone in really difficult and cerebral puzzles and such. I also think he is an eloquent speaker and doesn't speak unless he really has something to say. He has voiced his knowledge of his errors of his last game, he needs to be more social, well, he is definately being more social. BUT, what concerns me, is that I am fearful that he may change a bit too much, Amanda is going to be a distraction to him, and he noted, he needs to tap into the same energy and will that he had last time. To me, get involved in a romantic liason, while is GREAT TV, it concerns me that he will lose his intensity and focus. Seeing my hero getting romantically involved is very alarming to me regarding his winning the game. OTOH, Amanda is either a master manipulator and gamer by seeking out the strongest player to ride his coattails a la Amber, or is she just downright smitten? I think she is headed in the right direction to end game. Parvati, I still don't know about her. I did not get the impression that she was playing the game more this time, in fact I just thought that she was playing the same game. If she and James are indeed aligned with Amanda/Ozzy though, I have faith in their longevity. James was quite comical this time around especially with his awed reaction by all of the favorites, he wanted to just hug someone! And I LOVED his confessional, "Parvati is one of those sex kitten types, and I LIKE IT!" Right now it does seem to me that James is falling hook, line, and sinker as well. If these two guys start falling for these sirens, then the sirens will outlast their heros...time will tell. Great episode, can't wait for next week! ETA: Welcome to our boards, Girlingglas...don't be a stranger! We love to hear your thoughts! Also, wanted to note that we all know the Exile twist will most likely effect the game in a big way as well, enabling the two tribes to gain some premerge alliances as well as changing the fate for the one that finds the hidden II...will be fun!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-11-08, 01:14 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Episode #1 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-11-08 AT 01:15 PM (EST) Great thoughts to start the first episode analysis, michel! I don't disagree with much (if any) of what you wrote, other than that I feel somewhat lukewarm about Parvati's edit. I think it's worth keeping in mind that it's episode one and we've seen the Favourites before while the Fans are new to us, so it's natural that they (the Fans) would have more confessional time and in-camp development time the first few episodes. Because the Faves lost the challenge, the editors did have to spend some time over there editing-wise, but I think that is going to be a pattern over at least the next couple of episodes to let the character building go on from the Fans side instead of the Faves. We should get a much clearer picture of where the editing is going by about episode 4 or 5 when the early boots are out of the way and we're down to a more manageable number (16 or so) to properly focus our editing teeth on. Past seasons where we've had 18 to 20 contestants, I remember it taking a longer time for the editing to really flesh out (to use a word that VS likes ). A stocking stuffer from Agman! It will be a great day when every one of our schools get all the money they need while the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to raise enough funds to buy a bomber.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-11-08, 07:45 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Episode 1 Editing" I have not yet been able to read the posts after the first episode for which I apologize in advance. I want to post my post and I will then go back and read and respond. Some of my thoughts, therefore, may correspond so please ignore I will say I am very happy to see some postings and I do hope that there are more from a variety of people since the last few seasons have unfortunately left this thread with only a few contributions and for those who have stayed with this thread; I do appreciate that Believe it or not, I did not post as lengthy as usual (reading back that may not be apparent lol) and I think for the remainder of the season I will curtail the inordinate amount of time I spend on various aspects of the editing; perhaps it will be easier to get through the thread The Introduction To Us Jeff proceeds to let us know that the 10 Americans on board the boat are "fans of Survivor." We then get to hone in on the favorites with the opening confessional which ultimately established the mindset of the Favorites (generally speaking) Jonathan (conf) "You can be a fan of the Boston Red Sox but you don't want to play against the Boston Red Sox; you're gonna get your a-- handed to you" Jonny Fairplay is then given a confession (as he is gone it isn't relevant other than ironic since he cited himself as the greatest player) Parvarti (conf) "Coming back I'm playing very aggressively and pretty much no holds barred for me" YM (conf) "The only reason to come back is for the million dollars...." Cirie (conf) "People at home watching identify with me...." James (conf) "I could almost be on the fan side cause I'm a fan of all these people; for me to see like Yau and Ozzy it's like crazy" Ozzy (conf) "Everybody wants to beat me now (Jonathan) and I hope that I can tap into that same energy and will that I had last time" With that alone, it will be interesting to look back to determine if those selected above to start off this unique season could be the winner or at very least at the end competing for the million dollars. I trust that each of the 10 received sound bites so why were the above selected? Better commentary? Perhaps. Although I would suggest that not all of the commentary was so unique that it required attention. Jonathan comments on the premise but focuses on the ridiculous notion of the fans beating favorites (his being chosen is not hard to fathom as it is good commentary), Parvarti specifies that she is going to play hard (a solid confessional which promotes future playing), YM advises that the million dollars is the only reason to come back (another sound confessional but nothing about game play), Cirie capitalizes solely on why perhaps she was selected (perhaps some new audience members need to know this), James advises that he is almost in awe of being with the people that were chosen (which is questionable as to outcome) and Ozzy notes that he is the one everyone wants to beat (whether Jonathan shown is of any foreshadowing that Jonathan will at least beat out Ozzy remains to be seen and/or that Ozzy will be a major target for everyone in general or at the very least, Ozzy's expectations for himself as well as others expectations of Ozzy that we see later come into play). Jeff "For the next 39 days (Parvarti) they'll be forced (YM) to work (Cirie) together (Amanda) creating a new society (Ami/Jonathan) while battling (Eliza) the elements and each other (JFP). They must (Mikey) learn to adapt (Chet) or they'll (Jason) be voted out (Natalie) of the game. In the (Erik) end (Kathy) only one will (Mary) remain to claim (Alexis) the million dollar prize (Joel) Considering the Fans did not get immediate opening confessionals, of note that mostly everyone on the Favorites was shown does not lend much insight on anyone at that time highlighted The Introduction of the Favorites Each Survivor favorite was introduced with a clip from their season as their fans stood by and watched them emerge with Jason confessing prior to the arrival: Jason (conf) "I've always been a huge fan of Survivor....one of my life's dreams has always been to come out and try to survive in the wild" (Perhaps that IS his storyline since we hear his dream is to survive in the wild as opposed to his dream is to win a million dollars on Survivor) Tracy (conf) "So coming to Survivor... Jeff, seeing him there was surreal" (Nothing of any significance as this is purely narrative) Of note with the introductions and perhaps how we are supposed to best remember these players as well as how they may either be presented this season or how they progress in their methods. Cirie - Her clip was of her questioning the food showing her as the suspicious and inexperienced woman out of her element. Cirie was a very social player and ultimately shown to be extremely savvy despite her physical limitations. I question this clip and whether Cirie's "out of her element" persona will be the bane of her existence this time and never gets to progress to that savvy woman we came to know. Ozzy (Jason and Erik visibly excited) - Ozzy's clip showcased the amazing Ozzy with his tree climbing and swimming. Ozzy had his introduction confessional and clip highlight what a tremendous threat he was. Ozzy, with an opening statement and confessional about him appears favorable; my only concern is that he is being established literally AS the person to beat. Erik (conf) "I know a lot about Ozzy...I think I have what it takes to compete at Ozzy's level" A personal quest for Erik to best Ozzy. Will we see a rivalry in the making. Will Erik's words be foreshadowing or irony? This may have potential story making although his commentary could have been satisfied solely by his beating Ozzy in swimming at the impromptu challenge Ami (Mary with a bit of a grimace) Ami's clip was of her hugging at her family visit which was a slightly suspicious clip. Like Cirie, Ami's clip could have been entirely different. We know Ami did a lot of strategizing and was even portrayed somewhat of a villain so to show such a benign clip makes me question if Ami's stay is of any substance. Couple that with rarely anything else from Ami (including manipulation which was done quite often in her season) has me a bit concerned for her longevity. Jonathan (a nice round of applause with a Thank You from Jonathan) His clip was of a defining moment in his season - the mutiny. Not a surprising clip as this was a moment of high drama that Jonathan always brought to the table. Is it significant for Jonathan this season, i.e. this was not a moment of success for Jonathan but rather his fall from grace? Jonathan got a solid opening confessional and some decent (though low key for Jonathan) airtime. At this juncture, he appears to be somewhat solid for a period of time. Eliza (Natalie smiling) Her clip was of an argument she and Twila had with Twila advising that Eliza has been driving everyone nuts. As with some other clips, why this shown? To demonstrate Eliza's personality less we forget. Will she again "drive everyone crazy?" Despite Eliza not having an opening confessional, she had strong narrator skills although this is not necessarily indicative of longevity. Eliza, like Jonathan gives good commentary and she was central to a later plot as both perpetrator and potential victim. I trust that Eliza will be highlighted despite how long she stays so one must be careful how much to put into strong early presence. James (large cheers from the favorites with a gesture towards Joel) James, like Ozzy, was shown in his physical element and highlighted the amazing strength he has. James appears to have potential storyline in the making with Parvarti and perhaps some rivalry against Joel. My concern with James is his opening confessional was not about himself and his play but rather how those who played before him had an effect on him; that does not strike me as a confessional the editors would use for a potential winner from the favorites side. Joel (conf) "When I saw James come around the corner I got excited.... I think I can take him" Again, as stated another "match up" between a fan and a favorite. Both James and Ozzy received confessionals about them from favorites which made bode well at least in terms of a storyline. Parvarti (with a flirty Thank You Jeff) Parvarti's clip of the hot tub scene with Yul and Ozzy was shown highlighting what was her strength in the Cook Island. Feminine wiles was her game play then and after the show it seemed fairly obvious this will play a big part for her this season. Will this be all that she does or will her "no holds barred" commentary be included this season? What is important now to note with Parvarti is whether she stays true to her comment that she is going to add another dimension OR stick with her tried and true method. We see her revert to her CI ways and may question whether she is all talk OR note that her intention is to improve on her game but certainly not give up on something that worked well for her in the past as well. With her opening confessional, latter confessional and air time including stories surrounding her and involving her, Parvarti does appear to have legs for this season. Yao Man (biggest applause as noted by Jeff) YM's clip was of his finding the hidden idol. What is interesting with this clip (as with some others) is that YM was so much more than just finding that idol. He also strategized and was also shown to be extremely valuable in camp living but his clip was about the luck he has with the idol. Later we see YM comment on the idol he got off the boat and how he hopes he has more idols. Are JFP's words perhaps true? Once the idol is gone, YM will be as well? YM did get an opening confessional with the noted "million dollars included" but other than the scene with JFP, YM was on the fringes of the dynamics. Kathy "I love the Yao Man!" Yao is loved as evidenced by Kathy's commentary. This combined with Jeff's pre show commentary and Yao being all about the idol may be all what YM is about this season Amanda - Her clip showed Amanda strategizing with Courtney and interestingly enough in getting rid of James. Could this be its own foreshadowing since both are on this season? Amanda's clip focused on game play as opposed to a fluff clip which may not be bad for her chances for longevity. However, Amanda was sorely neglected in all other areas. She is part of a foursome yet Parvarti received all the integral parts, she is part of a twosome yet Ozzy garnered more air time. Both James and Amanda had the opportunity to speak about their history and it never came to be. Should Amanda stay for the duration, it certainly appears it may be on the merits or protection of others. I daresay should she win this time around, we would have heard how close she was last time and what she would do to improve her chances. JFP is then introduced with only one clip that could be shown along with a quip from Jeff. The grandmother lie would sum up the person everyone knows best. Tracy (conf) "I wanted to throw up... he's a loser pig" A sentiment thought by many and despite JFP leaving under "sincere" circumstances, he did spread his MO prior to his leaving The Theme(s) What has already been discussed in this thread may have been ultimately summed up by one of the fans: Alexis (conf) "I think the fans vs. favorites is the ultimate challenge because we have the favorites who obviously played the game before so they have the experience but at the same time you have us and we know their game, we not only know their strengths but their weaknesses too so I think that puts us at a huge advantage" How the end result comes down remains to be seen, however the "ultimate" ending would be a fan against a favorite due to the enormous storyline potential. Alexis is the one chosen to voice this very big story which may be suggestive on her longevity. Since the fans did not get to see Tribal Council, we only touched on them in the first episode (and not even enough for any merit) but it should be considered that Alexis was given a very big confessional even if she was not one of the fans to be really thrown in our faces. Was it simply a great commentary? Perhaps. I am sure this was spoken by some others as well. The "bottom line" is that Alexis was chosen by the editors to encompass a huge thematic approach to this season and this cannot be ignored. The Impromptu Challenge Of note is the race across the water which showed Ozzy and Erik leading the pack (more to signify this rivalry?) Erik (conf) "I beat Ozzy.... I wanted to show him what I'm made of" The second time we hear from Erik but solely about his quest to "beat" Ozzy rather than the larger vision of winning Survivor? YM and JFP get into a bit of a tangle to grab the immunity idol. YM (conf) "All these idols seem to like me and I hope there will be other idols along the way..." (More connection just to idols, thus far, this is literally being down shoved the viewers throats) Kathy advises she has no idea what is going on and YM instructs her to grab the other idol. Kathy (conf) "Thanks to YM, I have immunity to the very first TC we go to so I'm like safe!" (May be an interesting dynamic when the fans go to the first TC) JFP (conf) "Trust me, YM isn't America's hero.... as soon as that idol's gone, see you later bucko!" (Foreshadowing?) The Fans Camp A brief introduction was given to us to help set up the dynamic since they did not play a big part later on due to the fact they did not have to go to Tribal Council. Of note: Jason mentions this is all of their dream and "we definitely want to kick the favorites a--" The ultimate goal is to win Survivor not "just" kick the favorites butts; it will be interesting to see how the ultimate winner is portrayed - the person shown to look beyond just "proving something" and/or the person whose ultimate goal is just to win this game and utilizes the tools to do so while playing against the seasoned players. Tracy brings up JFP with a gagging expression with: "I'm a fan, I'm not just somebody who said oh let's go on Survivor" (Establishing her character a bit more for us) "We are out for blood" Yet another mention that the goal is to best the favorites Alexis heard stating to the group: "They all think they know how to do it and that the way they did it was right" (Tie to a major theme and this coming from the person who established the theme earlier.) Chet to the group: "We know how they play; they don't know a damn thing about us" (Tie to major theme) Mikey proceeds to provide humorous descriptions to some of his tribe (Kathy/big bird, southern princess/Alexis, incredible hulk/Joel, Jon Bon Jovi/Jason, queer eye for straight guy/Chet) "This is gonna be a crew, I'm telling you" (Mikey may provide good narration but this was strictly narrative with no manipulation) Kathy and Chet then shown in a very awkward conversation with Kathy discussing Chet's homosexuality. Clearly, the editors are establishing Kathy as stumbling around in any social atmosphere which was verified and validated by other tribe members as we hear Alexis confess that Kathy puts her foot in her mouth. With Kathy holding that precious immunity and the set up around her, there does appear to be a story in the making when the fans must go to the first Tribal Council as noted by Jason who advised that everyone was worried when the "crazy lady" found the idol as the consensus was she would be first to go. For that consensus to be reached that quickly (as shown to the viewers as opposed to the actual timing of the confessional) would show that Kathy is a caricature and one that is in grave danger unless something would save her. The Favorites Camp The group begin to work at once and we see a very tight unit in the business of setting up camp Ozzy (conf) "The fact that we played this game before, I think that is our biggest advantage; it is an expectation we got to live up to" (An interesting commentary in that it is very contradictory to the fans way of thought. Ozzy hones in on the theme as well but that playing the game before is the advantage as opposed to any disadvantage in that the fans will know their game. "Expectation" is brought up; will that be something that Ozzy is so focused upon? It certainly appears there are many expectations of Ozzy as well.) We hear Eliza talk to the group about establishing right then and there that "we are going to kick their a--es" (Like some fans, this "goal" may be more important to some favorites than the ultimate goal that they win the season) JFP then tells us how life is different for him now. James then tell us in a confessional he definitely appreciates the hard work he sees from his tribe members this time around. Ozzy shown already providing as James goes on to say how "the favorites should definitely have the advantage" Themes Advantage vs. Disadvantage (experience of game or knowledge of players) Past Mistakes vs. Adjustment of Game Play (for the Favorites) Goals Kicking the Favorites Butts vs. Proving Oneself Parvarti (conf) "Everyone is already bonding together. I have to win this time; this is my second time. I'm not coming back here to starve and be miserable. I was the flirt... there was no other dimension to me..." (James and Parvart "connecting") "Outwardly I am still gonna be flirty, I'm playing smart this time like I wanna make the right alliances... this time there is only one guy to flirt with, the big guy, James" Another good confessional from Parvarti. Dimension is a word used quite often in this thread. Although the remainder of the episode devoted itself to showing Parvarti exactly how we remembered her, again, it remains to be seen if this perhaps is part of a ruse to further herself in the game among other strategies or she is pigeon holing herself back into a familiar corner. The audience will either knowingly laugh at her not doing anything other than the norm or get to see her words come to fruition James immediately falls for her charms thus establishing another storyline in progression. Ozzy and Amanda are shown that evening with Ozzy advising her that he will be honest with her and if she saw his season that when he sticks to something he will do it. Amanda proceeds to tell Ozzy that he is a favorite player of hers (more expectation?) (another storyline whose foundation is being cemented) Eliza (conf) "I'd say I have a pretty keen power of observation... Amanda and Ozzy have this rapport.. and ever since we got here, Parvarti hasn't been able to take her hands or eyes off of James. She definitely will have him wrapped around her finger so I definitely think there could be romance bubbling with Parvarti and James and Amanda and Ozzy so that makes all four of them very dangerous" (Good narrative skills from Eliza which is of no big surprise and Eliza is only furthering a storyline that not only introduces a romantic aspect but Eliza is advising this could also prove dangerous) At the fans camp, things do not look very well as Jason narrates that things didn't go as planned as we see that their shelter is unsatisfactory and the rain is causing great difficulty. Kathy is shown extremely emotional over the events and advising "this sucks" As the camera shows Parvarti/James and Ozzy/Amanda bonding further in the morning, Jonathan, Ami, Eliza and YM are already firming up an alliance. Eliza (conf) "....the four of us are a tight alliance but the problem is there feels like there is another foursome and that is Amanda/Ozzy and Parvarti. We're very worried about that foursome and worried they were trying to pull in Fairplay and Cirie" The group is shown again with Eliza advising they need a fifth and Jonathan suggesting it be Fairplay. Although Eliza was not fond of that idea, the others were. JFP is then shown with Parvarti and Ozzy with Parvarti advising that "We are voting Eliza out" and then advising JFP who they have for the votes. Ozzy (conf) "We are a little wary of Eliza; just hearing about the way she played the game... she's shifty, crafty. Some of us feel like we can't trust her" (Much like the fans, the favorites also know how their own tribemates played and in this case, may cause an immediate reaction. As we see later on there is definitely a "vibration" for Eliza and Parvarti pitting themselves against each other. Interesting to note that Eliza is deemed shifty by Ozzy while later, Jonathan almost pays Parvarti a compliment by advising she is a threat due to her social skills) Ozzy (conf) "I'm really nervous because Fairplay has his villain persona to live up to so maybe he will betray everyone he can..." At this point in the show, Ozzy has also been a very strong narrator in the immediate dynamics. Couple that with Erik the fan intergrating his story with Ozzy and Ozzy's "interlude" with Amanda as well as Ozzy's own statements that everyone wants to beat him, he appears to be a very strong contender for longevity as there may be a lot progressing through Ozzy. We hear from JFP regarding being approached by Parvarti and Ozzy and then a new meeting with Ami, Jonathan, Eliza and JFP is shown. JFP proceeds to tell them that James/Amanda/Ozzy/Parvarti are locked into an alliance. JFP "They want Eliza gone first" (Jonathan is shown being the receiver of this statement) Jonathan "They want what?" JFP "Eliza gone" (Eliza now shown) JFP "But we need to get rid of Ozzy" (voice over with Jonathan shown) Jonathan "Ozzy or Parvarti" A chorus of Parvarti's chimed in (notably by female voices) Jonathan "If Parvarti's still in she can manipulate crap..." Jonathan (conf) "I think we should take Parvarti out first; I think Parvarti is a much bigger threat, she's a more social player than Ozzy is" Players talked about are often as a good as sign as those who talk. Jonathan, who in his past season was a very important narrator of events is setting some groundwork perhaps with respect to Parvarti and perhaps, by his words, we may just be getting the framework for her playing another dimension. Ozzy has been portrayed already to be a huge threat to this game yet Jonathan in one confessional is reflecting that someone like Parvarti may be even a bigger threat. Jonathan then proceeds in this confessional that JFP is someone you'd want to take all the way to the end. Jonathan "They think that you are with them?" JFP "Yeah" Whereupon, JFP proceeds to advise the audience that he is essentially playing both ends of the stick: "Have you ever watched this show before?" YM again proves why he was chosen as a favorite as he makes wine out of water (or rather fire from glass lenses) Eliza (conf) "YM got fire started miraculously; we have fire, we've been eating, we've been drinking... we're ready to kick some butt" Another sentiment of "kicking butt" which, as we know, was ironic at best since they did not, in fact, "kick butt" Eliza has also been a "camp" narrator. The problem with early narrators is that it is hard to discern if they are solely "pre merge" narrators. Many past contestants have been utilized to narrate the tribe and setting dynamics only to leave right around the merge time. (Brandon and Austin come immediately to mind) I would like to think with Eliza as a candidate by Parvarti and her team that Eliza will be around somewhat to parlay this into something worthwhile however, we can't discount the fact that major narrators often are given a lot of air time solely because they provide good commentary BUT can't be utilized in the second half of the game Gone But Not Forgotten Less we forget that there is even another tribe competing against the favorites, we are quickly shown the Fans tribe collecting their tree mail after noting that they are not quite faring as well as the Fans tribe with respect to food, water and, as we already knew, shelter. Mike (conf) "...I think they are chuckling at us like this is piece of cake and they're gonna walk all over us; they are not even looking at us as competitors, that's good, underdog, we'll take that role" (Most definitely an underdog aura presented this episode, a very important episode being the first one which introduces major themes/stories to play out. If this remains prevalent, along with a heavy hand of segregation of fans vs. favorites, it would seem almost too perfect that in the end, a favorite and a fan will square off) The challenge arrival brings some brewing tension as Eliza advises on their shelter and food and "ready to kick some butt" with JFP adding that he gained weight since being there. Joel is doubtful and JFP announces the episode title. Joel "If it is, hey good for them, they can be fat and happy and we can win the challenge" (Obviously foreshadowing and time will tell if so for the remainder of the game as well. Joel may be someone who is around for a good portion as he did receive enough airtime and visual to note his presence. However, he is a humongous threat and there is no doubt he will be targeted unless his tribe or he win an immunity) The challenge commences and in short order, the Fans show the Favorites they are not a group for them to take lightly (notably Jonathan and Eliza with James only suggesting that their group should have the advantage) with Eliza also getting roughed up in the process. A disappointed and "egg on their face" Favorites return to their camp. Jonathan (conf) "We tried hard, lost, no shame in losing. These fans are so enthusiastic. They are playing Survivor, their dream; and they just had more heart out there" Jonathan was shown in his confessional as one of his earlier confessionals so at least we can be assured that not ALL the alliance scrambling and boot candidates happened immediately upon their arrival. With that, Jonathan helped flesh out the theme for this season as well which does beg the question.... is something to prove more intense for the Fans or the Favorites? This was a good confessional for Jonathan also as it tend to soften any arrogance that may have come across from him earlier Ozzy (conf) "The loss is gonna humble us and make us ready to kick a-- in the next one" (A somewhat different approach to the "kick a--" confessional in that the "Favorites" may required to be humbled in order to succeed but this was an insightful comment and continued to help cement Ozzy's potential standing) Cirie (to group) "I may not do as well as Ozzy but I think I can did pretty good today" (A bit of the social game being played by Cirie and then her confessional) JFP shown stating to the group he is good for moral with his confessional then shown. Cirie (conf) "We're going to TC and oh gosh I do not have a plan at all, I have no idea what I am gonna do right now. I don't really trust any of these people (Jonathan shown in the water with group) I don't care I'll get rid of anybody as long as it ain't me" (Our first showing of Cirie and while the "Sandra" strategy may provide useful for awhile, her lack of showing anywhere else is a bit of a disappointment and does not bode well for her at end game. If her edit does not improve, Cirie may not see the success she did in her season) JFP (conf) "Right now I could go either way and totally change the game in two different directions. Two groups I'm playing are the four of YM, Eliza, Jonathan, Ami..." Ami, Jonathan and JFP then shown with Ami asking if they all know what they are doing tonight - Parvarti right? and then you have the alliance of Ozzy, James, Parvarti and Amanda; they're after Eliza so we'll see" We then see Parvarti and JFP together interspersed with JFP's emotional confessional about his unborn daughter Parvarti attempts to capitalize on JFP's discussion of just going home to throw "Eliza off the scent" Parvarti (conf) "I don't know, it might just be too crazy but I came up with this little plan to distract YM, Eliza, Jonathan, Ami into voting for Fairplay and we're all voting for Eliza just because I don't want Eliza turning around and trying to snake me" (which, was what apparently was to happen with a lovely visual of a snake to follow. Also of note is that Cirie is not mentioned whatsoever which is a bit hard to swallow seeing that both groups were aware that more numbers is better for them) JFP and Ami converse with JFP telling Ami about his wanting to go. Ami does ask if there is anything she can say to change his mind and he apologizes but no. Ami (conf) "Fairplay is a loose cannon; Fairplay said to me he wanted to go home... you just don't know whatever he means" (Ami is then shown telling the others of JFP's wish but noting that it could be a ruse) "Just gotta make sure he doesn't do anything crazy; I'm a little worried that he's going to come together with James, Ozzy, Amanda and Parvarti; all I know is that tonight Tribal Council is gonna be crazy because if I know JFP he's gonna stir things up" It was at least nice to see Ami show herself and with insight on what could be going on although Ami was extremely low key this particular episode. However, considering Eliza is the main target, Ami may be safe for a bit. Her poor showing this episode and not being one of the opening show confessionals tends to make me question how far she does get in this game though. It will be interesting to see if she does, in fact, broach a female alliance with Cirie, Parvarti and Amanda (Eliza already in her corner) selling the argument that the men will ultimately win the challenges and boot them. My concern is that the "romance" of the two pairs seems to be a story in the making and it doesn't seem likely Parvarti wants to team up with Eliza or risk having James and Ozzy not around to "protect" her. There is room for improvement despite first episode showing but at first take we really do not have anything from Ami that encompasses what this season is potentially about Tribal Council JFP receives the first question about camp and his reply of "cake" is met with a nod by Jonathan and that the only problem they may have had was "overconfidence" Eliza is asked about past reputations to which she replies it is definitely a factor in this game and that it factors on how they play the game and how people vote. JFP was then focused upon as the person with the most notable reputation to which he responded that he believes the others were surprised at the real JFP and that right now only his child is going through his head. Jeff is not quite convinced and questions if he wants to go home or had a bad afternoon and wants to recover YM is questioned on why he is smiling to which he responds that he is questioning JFP Ozzy is asked if this is more about that JFP can't hack it the second time around and Ozzy does not believe that is so and JFP defends himself to Jeff Jonathan is asked to comment about JFP and what he is doing as everyone knows he pulls scams. Jonathan states that he thinks JFP is asking "us" to vote for him. "Somebody has to go home, somebody wants to go home, he's going home" Jeff argues on JFP's past reputation and also if this is a quit. Eliza does not believe this is a quit and she still has doubts that he might not even go home The first Favorites TC and combined with absent first confessionals, Ami and Amanda were completely left out of both loops. Jonathan and YM are the only two shown, both voting for JFP. A funny and somewhat endearing send off with Jeff and JFP hugging goodbye and JFP telling Jeff to be nice to the others. YM is instructed to leave the idol as it has no use anymore A fine episode although I felt the Fans were a bit lacking in showing despite their not attending TC, we have established a sound thematic approach which was summed up succinctly by Alexis. Jason received some fine narrative time and Kathy was indeed embellished for "characterization" Sound bites from Erik and Tracy were notable but Erik's revolved around Ozzy and Tracy seemed very generic in nature. The others require a bit more fleshing out. As for the favorites, those with opening confessionals should be looked at for potential end game and with that, what their confessionals entailed. Jonathan, Parvarti, YM and Ozzy had more substantial confessionals over James and Cirie but one can't discount any opening confessional. Romance is in the making and cross storylines of some fans vs. some favorites also seem to be brewing as subplots. At this juncture, I could venture that there are more candidates from the favorites side at end game however, even with a smaller pool of candidates from the fans, it only takes one to win.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

suzzee 1125 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 02-12-08, 07:39 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Episode 1 Editing" Awesome as usual VS, I've been a reader of this thread for many seasons & enjoy and marvel at yours and others insights. You guys probably make Burnett grind his teeth at all his editing secrets being exposed Nice job. As for the shomances, I wonder if Pavrati had decided to just ride James till he drops, it's a strategy. She did say she was determined to win and would do anything, does that include taking the James train to the end of the line?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mimo 485 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 02-12-08, 11:25 PM (EST) 14. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Well, it's hard to believe that another season has started. I love the insight on this thread. VS, Michel, FloPo, and the rest of the gang--just have to say you guys really add to the joy of watching! A couple of things caught my attention on the first episode. It seems almost as if we have a pairing of certain fans vs. favorites. The obvious ones are: James vs. Joel -- both play the strong guys Ozzy vs. Erik -- mainly from Erik's commentary that his objective is to beat Ozzy and Erik's excitement at getting to the beach before Ozzy Yauman & Kathy --Kathy was the most excited to see Yau show up. Yau pretty much gave Kathy the idol To this I would add Fairplay vs. Tracy -- Tracy provided the reaction to Fairplay's arrival and continued to say negative things about him throughout the episode Cirie & Mikey -- only due to Mikey's comment that he's never been camping, which seems to match Cirie's couch potato persona. (Then again, maybe Mikey could be considered Jonathan's alter ego in that they have a similar professional background.) I'm wondering if maybe the progress of each fan would be matched up against that of their paired favorite (which wouldn't bode well for Tracy!!) Any other potential matches that I've missed? Another thing that caught my attention was how the music changed when they introduced Yauman (who according to Jeff got the biggest round of applause.) The music definitely became happier when Yau came out. It also changed when Fairplay was introduced, although it was a bit more camp than happy. Any thoughts from our music experts?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-13-08, 10:52 AM (EST) 15. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" suzzee - I am happy that you have enjoyed this thread over the seasons and I hope you plan on being a weekly contributor as well. Regarding the romances with the favorites, I certainly agree that Parvarti may be taking James on a wild ride (notwithstanding that I think Parvarti also finds him attractive lol) but the fact we heard her say she will continue to flirt but add a dimension to herself I would like to believe her statements were introduced that way for a reason. Whether it plays out as irony or fact remains to be seen but confessionals and such are edited for a reason so it must be kept in mind that Parvarti was shown telling the viewers this for a purpose; it was not a throwaway comment. mimo - Glad to see you again! Your pairings are definitely on target as casting seemed to make a conscious effort to create a lot of parallels between both tribes. I was more inclined to lean towards Mikey being Jonathan’s counterpart but understand your thoughts on Cirie. I’m very happy that you paid attention to the musical changes since we lost apple somewhere and I believe 100% that the music and visuals play an integral part in how the season unfolds even if it is only in the immediate episode. I hope you listen some more and give us your thoughts on the musical progression as it would be wonderful to see here again. Pepe - as always, a pleasure. Your feelings regarding Parvarti are probably not uncommon as there were strong opinions about her in Cook Islands and I’m sure they carried over to this season especially in light of her “showing” Viewers are meant to be subjective and the editing intends for this happen. Quite often I have to remind myself that those at end game are not necessarily those we like but rather from which the story revolves and/or evolves(whether individually, through their tribe or alliance or a central theme) Alas, a crucial element to this season is “past mistakes” and Parvarti did touch on this as well as the broader theme that Alexis touched upon that “they know their game.” That is quite an interesting connection. I agree that we have only touched upon the fan dynamic since not only do we know the favorites but they went to Tribal Council which would give them more air time out of necessity. You are absolutely correct that the first episode sets the tone but we will see a clearer picture in coming episodes (ah yes, fleshing out is a favorite of mine lol) The merger episode is also important to me as is the recap (if there is one) and the family visit and pecking order challenges as well. FP - I am very happy to see you and hope we see more of you this season? The theme was most definitely hammered home that I would be hard pressed to believe that this is not the core for this season. Indeed, Kathy is a big distraction and there are hints that others are as well. Considering Jeff’s comments about Kathy and her persona thus far, she will be utilized by the camera even if her stay is short. Jason was indeed a huge narrator which one then must question how he fares which I touched upon on my post. While Mikey did not have a big impact, certainly his confessional describing his tribe was memorable but that makes for good television. His other confessional regarding “underdog” was a bit more “fleshy” but then again, it summed up the circumstances and not necessarily had anything to do with Mikey per se. One reason I love making this thread is how we see different viewpoints on how the characters are received. Pepe notes Parvarti and you note your surprise over Jonathan’s reception. I remember in one season I spoke with apple (I believe) about Tom Westman and told apple that it is very difficult to separate what the editors try to make us feel and how we do feel about the players and their strategy. Rupert is the perfect example. Your perception that Jonathan makes game mistakes vs. serious gamer is not mutually exclusive. The editing from Cook Islands and bits presently are shown that Jonathan IS a serious “gamer” BUT that does not necessarily make someone a GOOD gamer so your observation and others observations both can be correct. This may then revert back to “past mistakes” (ah ha!) I see your love for Ozzy continues I also believe he had a very strong first episode. The romance could easily be a distraction and good television. At this juncture, I do believe Ozzy has “legs” but your assessment that he could be overcompensating for his lack of socialization last time may indeed be his downfall. With respect to Parvarti, at this time, we shouldn’t know about her other than what she advised us. What IS being told to us is the premise that she plans on adding a new dimension to her game. We saw her embark on her femme fatale skills right away so there is a need for an outcome however which does intend to signal she will (at the very least) have a meaty role. girlinglasses - you are very kind and I’m sure I speak for everyone to “chime” away! There is no stealing here lol - only imaginative minds that often think alike While my thoughts on Jonathan’s end game are still questionable there was enough there that I don’t foresee any immediate danger. The problem with a character like Jonathan is that he will be highlighted regardless of his standing and he is just subtle enough that he avoids a caricature role (these roles tend to set off our radars that they are not at end game) I find it very interesting that you thought that perhaps Jonathan and Parvarti would align considering their rocky past; it would actually be a pleasure to watch but I’m not sure that their respective personalities could ever come to a meeting of the minds but there is always hope that they could put that aside to conduct some business The fan women were quite often a “blur” which doesn’t necessarily bode well for end game but in editing theory we need to wait a bit as a editing non starter could slowly build and that is always promising michel - thank you for starting us off and welcome back after what seems to be another season that just ended I won’t delve too much into your confessionals and communication quotes since I probably already repeated them. With respect to the players, I find your assessment of Erik interesting for “villain” purposes and I will keep that in the back of my mind. I definitely saw the connection of rivalry with Ozzy and that may further play out or it may have been the set up for the immediate payoff when he beat Ozzy in the water. Since most of his air time was devoted to such limited thinking, his role does indeed seem limited for the ongoing story. Like Erik, Joel’s storyline seems tied to James and I agree that his role of strength is polarized. Logically speaking, who would want to keep him at the merger anyway? We saw him often enough but there was no depth. James was fleshed out more on China; I agree that any role he plays may just be one to win challenges for them and go head to head with James. Obviously I agree with your observations on how Alexis contributed to the story despite that we don’t really know anything about her yet and I won’t bore everyone by repeating myself regarding her statement and the thematic approach. Your ideas about potential alliances and such with respect to Mikey’s talk is interesting and one to view as time goes on. As you know, I count on everyone else here for their ideas as I tend not to delve too deeply in those areas and I will be looking forward to seeing how your ideas play out Cirie most definitely could be very valuable or she may have no bearing. I’m not entirely sure not showing her affected the suspense (unless you mean solely showing her with her thoughts on voting as you do go on to mention that she was not the narrator we know) as Cirie makes for great confessionals and conversation; I would have liked to hear more from her and my concern is that she was almost an afterthought by everyone else as well. There may be something that we are not shown though so I hold her chances in reserve but on paper it doesn’t bode as well for Cirie this season (although UTR - the UTR I utilize fits Cirie to a “T”) Our thoughts are fairly cohesive on the other players although I’m not sure I would equate Jonathan as the villain to Parvarti’s showing but as I have always maintained, the beauty of this show is the different perceptions viewers have however I do believe that Jonathan’s statement about Parvarti is perhaps helping to lend credence that Parvarti is to be taken seriously; Jonathan could have easily stated she is lazy and a flirt (which would essentially not get any argument from the audience) but it was stated she was a threat and her social skills are threatening. This softer touch was a bit manipulated; I’m sure Jonathan may have had some harsher things to say. With Exile Island now a part of the story this week, the editing on those exiled should be interesting to watch and it will need to be determined what and who is being shown solely because “a rose is a rose” or if manipulation plays a hand. The romance of the two sets of favorites was highlighted for this week as well -what do we see beneath this distraction or is it a distraction? I absolutely loved reading what everyone had to say; thank you for making my post Survivor viewing such a pleasure.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-13-08, 05:37 PM (EST) 16. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Dear VS: I love reading your thoughts on what others have captured as well. I wanted to post something in regard to my initial assessment of Ozzy and Amanda. While at first it raised alarms for me, as I saw that it could be a distraction for him...yet as time goes by, I am feeling a bit more positive about it...I'm glad it's with Amanda and not Parvati, as I do think Amanda is a serious game player. After all, look who she latched onto in China, the winner, Todd. Amanda was shown scheming and directing alot in China, perhaps she could be an asset to Ozzy, and vice versa. But as always, I can't help think that this change of heart could just be wishful thinking on my part. Looking really forward to some Valentine's Day Survivor love!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-13-08, 06:59 PM (EST) 17. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" LAST EDITED ON 02-13-08 AT 07:05 PM (EST) Hello Veruca, It's nice to see and read from you, FP, Pepe, mimo and the new participants like girlinglasses and suzee. VS, I agree that noting the opening confessionals from the favorites could be key. You noted that Ami, Eliza and Amanda didn't have any. How much of an impact will that have on their end game chances? It certainly puts all 3 in doubt even if they're on opposite alliances. I will keep your Themes and Goal in mind: >"Themes >Advantage vs. Disadvantage >(experience of game or knowledge of players) >Past Mistakes vs. Adjustment of >Game Play (for the Favorites) >Goals >Kicking the Favorites Butts vs. >Proving Oneself." With Exile Island putting members of each tribe together, maybe we should look for which pairing will work on bridging the gap? I see we agree on many players. For Cirie, I meant that, if we had seen her talking with James, Ozzy, Jonathan or Yau Man, we'd already have a clear idea of which favorite will exit next. Right now, we are uncertain of which alliance can count on her until the next IC loss. I'm glad that I intrigued you with my impressions of Erik. Wasn't Jason supposed to be Ozzy's rival? That's part of the reason why Erik's confessionals seemed significant. Villains come from rivalries. Which brings me to Jonathan vs Parvati. I see that Pepe and FP don't share my views either and I appreciate the challenge. Like I said, it will take time to see exactly what is Jonathan's role, so I could be off track. I do know that, if they had wanted to, the editors could have found a clip of Parvati saying she doesn't like or trust Jonathan. I found it interesting that Jonathan was shown as the aggressor, firing the first shot on both Parvati and Ozzy with no edited provocation.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-14-08, 02:07 AM (EST) 18. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Hi I'm Mocha, long time reader and admirer of all of your insight. I'm not looking at the spoilers this time so I thought I could add some untainted insight. I agree with mimo, the parallels really pop out this time - this definitely indicates alliances, rivalries and story lines which could last well into the game. To summarize and add some of my own insight based on the first episode and Jeff Probst Scouting/1st impression reports from Veruca's 1st entry: Physical threats (P) Social threats (S) Immunity idol threats (I) Villan (V) Attitue/Annoying(A) out early or end game goat JFP(V,A) vs. Yauman(I)/Tracey(A)/Cirie(S) Yauman(I) + Kathy(A,I) Ozzy(P) vs. Jason(P)/Erik(P) Ozzy(P) + Amanda(S) + James(P) + Pavarti(A,S) James(P) Vs. Joel(P) Pavarti (A,S) vs. Eliza(V,A,S), Jonathon(A,V,S) Jonathon (A,V,S) + Eliza(V,A,S) + Ami(V,S) + Yauman(I) Mikey(S) = Jonathon(A,V,S) or Cirie(S) Natalie (A) Alexis (S) Chet (S) Mary - strangely no impression from the 1st show nor Jeff. The Favs seem to have a more balanced alliance Physical & Social(Ozzy/Amanda/James/Pavarti) vs. Social&Immunity(Jonathon/Elize/Ami/Yauman). On paper and barring twists the more balanced alliance should win out, but it may come down to who Cirie sides with. I also agree Ozzy and James should be in the game a long time because of the romance, alliance, rivalries that revolve around them, although they are huge targets at merge because the physical threats they represent. Just a thought on different vs. new strategies. Seemed like JFP was portrayed as a very different player even though the old Fairplay was wanted by both alliances. He asked to be voted out and he was. Perhaps it is the survivor who is true to his old strategy that will win this game. This is where Cirie comes to mind - at the beginning of her season of the game she was not in the winning alliance and had to wait and hope she didn't get voted out. Her game, at least to the viewers, didn't kick in gear until much later in the game. MOCHA   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-15-08, 06:09 PM (EST) 19. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" LAST EDITED ON 02-15-08 AT 06:22 PM (EST) hi all! i am another long time reader/admirer of this forum. i think i actually like reading the analysis of survivor even more than watching the actual show. (side note: i also caught the first episodes of "temptation island 2" or whatever it is called (horrible show!) and i spent the whole time wondering "why is he/she doing that? what are the editors trying to show/tell us?" no clue. i have obviously developed a very high standard for reality show editing thanks to the analysis i have read here. anyway, enough wasting time on that! first i wanted to say to mocha that i think an (S) should be added to yaumans name. as to last night's awesome ep, here are my prelim thoughts: first, ozzy was very cute confessing his admiration of amanda, we are to like these two and pull for them. he was also shown to be very aware of strategy and i think his journey will be to prove his strategic abilities and win the whole game. to be clear here, i dont say this because i am a huge ozzy fan, i say it because of the editing. second, i think it is eliza that is preceded in the opening credits by a snake? i feel that is a very strong connection, being that it will show during every ep. she has to be a super-villian and likely there for a while, probably to the jury, for them to put such a heavy-handed effort into her. watch for her to make some extreme snakey moves during her stay. but i dont think she will make final three because her villian edit is too strong, we would never think she could win after seeing her as a snake every week. another very heavy edit i noticed was that there was a marked change of music going from fan beach to fav beach at one point. nothing subtle about it and i definitely got the have/have not vibe of a couple of seasons ago. thoughts on characters: chet was the star of the show, in a bad way. he was shown as stupid, slow, lacking heart and not worthy of even being there. even his dive into the water was terribly awkward and the return to the beach, come on! when he talks to the camera he looks tired, old and used up. this may not be the editing, though! mikeys TC vote speech totally summed up his character right now. also, his challenge performance really reminded me of courtney's machete moment from last season, but she was a much more entertaining character, he is not at all. where does chets edit go from here? we are definitely being led to want to vote him off ourselves. heck, we could even forgive the fans for throwing a challenge to get rid of him! (not us, of course, just the viewers) look for him and kathy to be highlighted during the fans next TC. cue major rivalry between mikey b and joel. sorry mikey, but the hulk looks like a player: his story is that he looks like a dumb thug, but is a strategic surprise. he is shown thinking way ahead in his prelim move against mikey. he snapped at kathy early on but had no reservations aligning with her. he was shown voting for tracey, and he can say that he did not vote against mary. (it seems to me that we are not always shown who votes how, so this info is meant to be seen. how did others who were with mikey vote?) joel has long legs with his james rivalry, his mikey rivalry, and his role as strategy master. i predict he is going to be around for a while, his team will need him anyway. i see erik as joels second leutinent of strategy. joel went right to him, and i am guessing that joel would not have picked erik first unless erik had demonstrated his strategic acumen but we werent shown. remember, jeff aludes to erik getting played, maybe it is joel who does it. jason, i think, was shown as a wide-eyed lover of the game and the experience, he was excited about going to TC! he does not come across as a strong game-player, but his enthusiasm is fun to watch. maybe this is the beginning of his edit, "enthusiastic kid from the beginning, how will he hold out? fall apart? retain his enthusiasm to the end?" will there be a big contrast in his confession another time when he goes to tribal? kathy is not only crazy, she came across as not smart at all in her interaction with cerie, who had to keep her focused alot. i wonder if the favs will continue to send kathy to EI whenever possible: if she and a fav found the idol there is no doubt in my mind that any of the favs would be able to assume possesion of it from this crazy, over-awed and under-brained fan. i really felt sorry for mary, blindsided through no action of her own. i also want to note that i was left with the impression that chet and kathy are not real fans and mikey and joel are. tracey came across as intolerant and over-reactive in the "not in MY cave" scene. Jason showed no tact, he obviously had a very low opinion of the three elders. although, tracey is not really on the same level as the other two, she is strong, smart, and has building skills. i really loved this intro to the fan tribe. i felt that i was really shown the dynamics of much of the tribe and the character of many of the players in a remarkably short viewing time, congrats to the editors, they did a fantastic job! the fire making was really interesting: you have to know that over half of the tribe has spent considerable time at home making fire like this. i think that is why we saw the weird "fast stroke" technique and why the guys spent so much time (and flint) before they would let someone else try: they just knew they could do it at home! and then when the fire was built we were shown jubilation. the scene was really strong. maybe we are seeing the development of a theme: a contrast between the enthusatic fans and the take-it-all-for-granted favs. lets talk about the challenge. the favs puzzle team absolutely ruled, didnt they? we are shown the superior intellect of these three. it was a walk in the park for them, an "ozzy level" performance. one thing that i really noticed during this challenge was how we were shown the contestants running across the lily pads. this speaks to athletic ability or lack there of, so i think this editing was important. these displays were totally optional for the editors and we should be able to analyze them for "manipulation". if the camera cut away as someone started across the lily pads we have to assume that they fell soon after and we were not shown that. with the lily pads we all expect ozzy to run on water, but i seemed to see jonathon go quite far and amanda stumble early. my co-worker even remarked on jonathons ability, and she is not a fan, so this edit was very effective and may show a beginning of a new direction for jonathons edit. amanda being shown stumbling must also be significant for it to be shown, does she fall apart physically after back-to-back survivor stints? i anticipate that we will see team mates remarking on the physical toll on her and this is just the first hint of her "running out of gas" story. and, of course, the rivalry between ozzy and jason was highlighted very strongly here again, look for that to continue. finally, it seemed to me that as jeff intro'd the challenge we were shown the teams for each task on the fan tribe. if i am right that seems really odd...it is very unlikely that they were standing in those groupings during jeffs speech and they did not win the challenge. wow, i have never posted before because i felt that i had nothing to add, but this is way easier than i thought! i hope to rewatch the episode for a more in-depth analysis. before i forget, VS what IS your definition of a UTR player? laura um...this should really be the start of a "episode 2 editing thoughts" thread, is there any way to change that?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

renila 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-16-08, 07:38 PM (EST) 20. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Fans vs. Favorites" Hi all -- Long time lurker here & big fan of you All-Star edit readers -- so I guess I'm down with the theme. Gonna dip my toe in and not try exhaustive analysis Just caught up with the first two episodes after downloading on my Mac. Don't know if anybody caught this already, but in both instances when Jonathan & Ozzy talk about wanting Fairplay to make up a fifth -- neither of those sentences are completely on camera. Both are cut and spliced with V.O. Especially with Ozzy -- the cut-off is so abrupt, I want to believe he really said "or Cirie." In any event, it's definitely possible that Cirie was much more at the center of things than the editors wanted us to know. Maybe to keep suspense up as to her leanings? Or? She was pretty noncommital with Jonathan -- they would work together "down the road." Is her key alliance one we're not seeing? She was certainly comfortable enough to volunteer to go to Exile Island. Also, as I watched Epi. 2, I had a very loud VerucaSalt buzzing in my head saying, "alliances revealed do not succeed." I think the couples alliance is much more two-twosomes that one foursome. In any event, the girls have picked the two most-loyal most-athletic least-strategic guys on the Faves tribe -- talk about perfect cover post-merge. Has there ever been a challenge whore/perfect goat before? 'Cause Joel is shaping up to be one. He's outthinking himself and setting himself to be hated if he blindsides like this all the time. He so wants to be in control, that he doesn't do what's best for the tribe -- Chet is clearly overmatched in challenges and such a liability -- and they won't be able to sit out Kathy next round. By the way, I never saw Vanuatu, so I didn't know who Ami was -- and I still don't. She's definitely on my "no" list -- or she would be if I could point her out in a lineup.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-16-08, 08:41 PM (EST) 21. "Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-16-08 AT 09:00 PM (EST) First, I wanted to welcome our new posters, Mocha, b1whois and renila. Interesting posts. To answer b1whois' question: For many, UTR means that a player is hidden from the cameras. (I call those players Tourists). For us, UTR is someone who isn't a target to the other players. They aren't necessarily quiet players as Jenna and Sandra both won by being UTR. They were simply the last person the others thought would win so their opponents always thought there'd be time to vote them out later. To renila who wondered about a combination challenge whore/perfect goat combo, I can only see Matt in Amazon if the guy hadn't decided to throw so many challenges. The problem with that combo is that the winner wants to bring the goat but with a challenge whore, you have to consider he could win the final immunity. Anyway, if you read my post, you'll see I have doubts whether Joel can last that far! On to my impressions: The recap had an interesting new scene when we saw Airai’s shelter collapsing during the night. It was a sign of trouble ahead for the inexperienced team. The episode started off in Malakal, where we learned that Ozzy caught a fish with his bare hands on the walk back from tribal council. Eliza had the first confessional as the tribe sat to eat the fish: “We had tribal council tonight and Johnny Fairplay asked us to vote him off. I kept thinking that something’s gonna change, something’s gonna come up, something terrible and I was gonna be the one that ended up going home first. But he was serious and we honored his request.” Jonathan had a confessional about Fairplay’s weird elimination during the opening sequence : “I was not pleased when Johnny pulled this because it screwed up my plans but, you know what, everybody knows that, if we continue doing what we’re doing, we should be able to win. I figured that everybody’s been out here 30, 33, 39 days, something like that, times 9 that’s basically a year’s worth of experience. We just feel confident that we can be in there and beat these guys at almost any challenge.” The second scene opened in Airai: Alexis had the first confessional for the Fans who were still struggling with the organization of their camp: “It’s day 4 and we’re in a bad place right now: We need to fix our shelter. We haven’t had any water. Everyone is tired, everyone is hungry. But, in the challenge yesterday, we beat the Favorites and we won immunity and along with immunity we also won flint and flint is fire, so we’re golden.” She thought that, as soon as she struck the flint, the fire would light up immediately but we saw it took a lot more effort. Joel soon went to work on the fire himself: “We gotta make fire. I don’t care how much we have.” Kathleen was with Chet and Tracy while Joel struggled with the flint. She had a confessional: “The boys are still back there, trying to start a fire. They’re all chopping away but we got Nothing!! Number one priority for me is shelter because, pretty much every night, it rains. What is the problem? I don’t understand.” Joel was immediately shown on screen with the editors beeping out an expletive. He added: “They’re talking all the time and not working.” After being unsuccessful, we heard Joel yelling at Kathleen: “I just spent half an hour trying to make fire. All you do is run your mouth.” Interestingly, Alexis was shown in close-up during that confrontation between Joel and Kathleen as we heard Mikey commenting: “Oh, it’s so much drama.” We saw the tribe’s division as the three older players started working on their own. Kathleen, crying, told us her feelings: “Tracy, Chet and myself, have pretty much been shunned from the rest of the tribe. And you can’t fight 7 against 3. It just makes you relive things in your life, like high school whatever, when you didn’t fit in and you were kind of outcast. It just kinda brings it all back.” Jason was then seen cleaning out the cave that Kathleen and Tracy intended to use as shelter. Jason dismissed them by saying: “This is my habitat tonight.” Jason then told us: “Tracy, Kathy and Chet, I don’t think accomplished a single productive thing all day long. And I just don’t want to be around them so I told them straight up, I don’t want you sleeping in the cave.” That got a comment from Tracy: “I’m not gonna fight with these kids…they hate us.” After Airai’s drama, we were back to Malakal with some caribean music. Things were going well for our Favorites! Ozzy was fishing and Yau Man was tending fire. Jonathan had another confessional: “We were quite disorganized in the last challenge so we’re going to try to get better today. We’re hoping the Fans have slept poorly and are still way behind us in the camp curve. We’re doing great, honestly.” Having brought back a huge clam, Ozzy had a confessional: “I’m starting to become really attracted to Amanda. She is so cute, I mean she is beautiful. It’s like, Ahhh! We just have to stay apart as long as possible because, if it becomes obvious to the rest of the group, then I’m going to have a giant target on my back.” We had separate shots of Yau Man and Elisa observing the two together. After getting some coconuts with James, Parvati also had a confessional: “I started off flirting and going with James and it was so easy because he is just so cute, you know.” Being asked by Jonathan if it was love, Amanda had a confessional: “I definitely think that James and Parvati have something going on. I always thought that Ozzy was really, really cute so it’s kinda like a couple’s alliance, yeah, but we just have to be careful because I don’t want it to screw up my game.” Amanda and Parvati were then shown in the water with Cirie. Back in Airai, the 3 older players had completed a lean-to shelter to the amazement of Erik. Tracy had a confessional: “Kathy, Chet and myself, we made a new shelter for the three of us, and we’re going to make it our home. The other 7, they came over and asked us to help them build a new shelter. I think I’ve earned a little bit of respect from them. But right now, all I care about is making fire because, if I don’t get some water in me, I’m gonna die.” Finally, it was Mikey and Alexis who managed to make their first fire. The tribe rejoiced and Mary told us how they had become more unified as a tribe. That’s when we saw her starting to flirt with Mikey. Mikey told us: “I’m definitely flirting with Mary, absolutely, she’s a cute girl and I’m having fun with her on the island. She’s a friendly, funny girl to get along with. I want Mary to trust me, and if I can use my flirtatious abilities to get her in my back-pocket, then I’m gonna use it.” Joel quickly noticed this alliance: “Mikey likes how Mary looks. He has maneuvered himself pretty close to her. That’s right out of player school 101. Obviously, I’m gonna keep my eyes on them but my priority right now is to keep my tribe strong. I think the 3 outsiders, Tracy, Chet and Kathy, they’ll be outta here as soon as possible.” The third segment: “Jungle Love”! Cirie told us all about it: “I was awake quite a bit last night and I heard the sounds of Jungle Love, I guess! I think we’ll be receiving birth announcements from Amanda on her little Ozzlets that she’s about to have. And Parvati and James will be at the wedding as soon as this is over. So, it’s a little more than just alliances with those guys. That’s what makes it scary…The two couples separate don’t really bother me but the 4 of them together poses a problem. I don’t know just yet how I’m gonna dismantle that foursome. (Laughing) but I’m gonna try.” Then, Cirie sat at the fire with Jonathan. Jonathan had this confessional: “It’s silly, you know. Go get a hotel room. You got to take one step back and think there might be somebody awake. We are sleeping together in a cave, you know.” Jonathan told Cirie it was stupid and that he was afraid of Parvati, James and Amanda and Ozzy being totally tight. He proposed that they should work together. Jonathan’s confessional continued: “We have, myself, Eliza, Ami, Yau Man as a core 4 and we needed one more for the lock and that was Cirie. She just told me that she will work with me down the line if we decide to go that far together.” Day 5: The Challenge As a first, one tribe applauded the other for voting out a member. “Good Job” said Kathy when Jeff announced Fairplay was gone. It was interesting to note that Jonathan was focused on when Jeff said the immunity idol gives you power in this game. It could be that he experienced it first hand or that he, himself, gets the idol. I noted how eye contact appeared to have been made between Alexis and a smiling Parvati when Jeff mentioned going to Exile Island. Do they meet there? It was also interesting to note that Parvati was the one to exclaim “OH! GOD!” when Jeff mentioned that there would be a twist revealed after the challenge. From the bottle twist, she certainly knew how bad the news could be. Except for showing Chet’s limitation, the challenge itself had little foreshadowing elements that I noticed. Maybe “Ozzy makes it, Jason doesn’t” could mean something down the line as the first two raced off over the lilly pads. “IT” could represent the jury instead of the platform. With Eliza, Yau Man and Cirie working on the puzzle, the Favorites had 3 very good ones at that job. They easily won the challenge. The Exiled Ones: It wasn’t clear why Kathy was chosen to go to Exile Island but Yau Man seemed to be the one to come up with her name first. I’d suggest he feels he could have an alliance down the road with her so might as well give her another idol. Cirie volunteered to go for the Favorites and they all agreed, a indication of the power Cirie holds in that tribe. Why did she volunteer? Maybe because, as she told Kathy, she was from Exile Island but never got to go on the island. Kathleen had a confessional: “Being on Exile Island with Cirie is a good thing. Watching her from her season, she grew a lot and she’s so sweet, she’s so motherly.” Cirie had a more strategic confessional: “Right now my team is 9 people and there’s Parvati and those guys and there’s Jonathan and those guys and I’m smack-dab in the middle. All I was thinking is, I’m going to Exile Island and God! Please help me find the immunity idol…Looking for the idol was absolute torture…” Cirie wasn’t happy with the wild goose chase! With that, Malakal’s role ended for this episode. What did we learn from them? Very troubling for their future chances, Ami, Yau Man and James had no confessionals. Ami and Yau were practically ignored by the cameras while James, at least, was talked about being dangerous because of his alliance and he was seen with Parvati. With Eliza’s introduction scene last week and her only confessional shown this week, I see the editors portraying Eliza as a very lucky player. Notwithstanding how the vote would have turned out if Fairplay had wanted to stay, she’s the one shown saying she could have already been voted off just as being a continual target meant she could have been voted off early in Vanuatu. With these experienced players, the message would be that her luck can’t last very long this time. Jonathan’s first confessional was directly linked to the main theme of the season. His confidence was rewarded in this episode but his tone showed arrogance regarding how he perceives the competition from the fans. His confessional about Cirie could also be seen as over-confidence on how the votes will turn out because we know Cirie is an independent thinker. Over-confidence being a theme that worked against the Favorites from the start, I'm thinking it will be Jonathan's downfall. Ozzy was presented as being very valuable to his team. From catching a fish with his bare hands, to bringing back a clam and then gaining a lead over Jason, we saw the Cook Islands Ozzy again. What continues to interest me is that we are allowed to hear him express his strategic thoughts. He knows the danger of going out to fish alone so he had many people on the boat accompanying him while Yau was the one left back to take care of the camp by himself. We also know that Ozzy is aware of the dangers of being seen with Amanda. Things are looking good for Ozzy. Amanda had a little more presence in this episode. Not a lot but her story is emerging. What is interesting is that we heard her say that she still has her head in the game. If one of the four love-birds is going to win this game, that’s the kind of confessional we will have to hear. Parvati was seen more than she was heard. Along with Amanda and Ami, we saw how strong a swimmer she is and we were told how dangerous she could be with this group of 4. As with last week when she talked to Fairplay about voting out Eliza, the couples’ alliance is again seen as being led by her as Cirie talked of “Parvati and those guys”. Interesting. An episode that has Cirie as one of its main narrator is always a good episode. The outcome of Malakal’s alliances depend entirely on her. So much so that it’s surprising that no one as seen fit to preempt her and jump over to the other side. For two episodes, we’ve wondered which side Cirie will go and she tells us she doesn’t know yet! One thing to consider is that with the two couples, she would always be the swing vote while with Jonathan’s alliance she can only be the 5th wheel. Hearing her talk of dismantling the foursome could be misdirection for the next episode or so as she could wait until the end to do to one couple what she did to Courtney and Shane. Cirie could be the star again! However, star doesn’t necessarily mean winner because her portrayal while in exile was very cursory. For one thing, we didn’t see any talks of post merge alliances with Kathy. The editors could have cut them out if one of them doesn’t make the merge and Kathy’s chances are weak, but for Cirie it could have implications further down the line. Now, we had to see how Airai would be voting and the fans didn’t disappoint. They returned to camp with Alexis trying to lift team morale with a round of applause for everyone. Jason was heard saying it wasn’t immunity he regretted losing but rather the fishing gear because that “box was a box of gold.” Erik had a confessional: “We lost the challenge today. That’s our first time going to tribal council, that’s a big deal. We’re all really frutrated. It’s likely going to be one of the three older members of the tribe going home, probably Chet because he did really poorly in the challenge. I mean, he was floundering around. ” Mikey confided: “All of us know who we want to go home. That would be Chet. There’s all these variables that come into play which makes it difficult. I’m suggesting splitting our votes, 4 to Chet and 3 to Tracy just in case Kathy found the hidden immunity on Exile Island. If she had it, she could give it to Chet or Tracy. If we vote them, it bounces back to us and then we’re screwed.” Joel wasn’t happy with Mikey taking over the voting decisions. He had a confessional: “Mikey’s throwing out all these different scenarios…He went on and on and on, so much so that it confuses me. My initial thought was ‘Chet, you’re out of here, you’re done.’ But Mikey thinks he’s got it all figured out and I don’t like that. He’s teamed up with Mary and now he thinks he has the entire tribe voting the way he wants us to vote and doing whatever he wants. But if I have anything to say about it at tribal council tomorrow night, it will be abundantly clear that that’s not the case.” Day 6: Tribal Council It started with Joel telling Erik and Alexis his plan to break up Mikey and Mary. Joel had another confessional: “Micheal and Mary are very close and I believe that if we have one person who believes they are leading this tribe in a certain direction, their strongest alliance, in my mind, would be the alliance to beak.” Erik’s reaction was given in confessional: “Joel suggested that we, along with Alexis, work together to get rid of Mary. I think it’s a good idea because Mikey is a really smart guy and he knows what’s going on here.” Even if Erik told Joel that the idea was “pretty diabolical” he went along with it. Returning from Exile Island, Kathleen was told by Joel about the plan to rock the game. She had a confessional: “I was super worried that they were all going to pick Chet…Joel steps up to me and goes ‘It’s Mary’. Where did Mary come from?” Tracy also told us her views: “For the last two days, it was Kathy, Chet and myself against the other 7 and now we see a window of opportunity. I just don’t know if I can trust Joel. Joel wants this million dollars probably more than anybody here and I feel that he’s gonna stop at nothing to get it.” With Jason and Erik saying that it will be interesting to check out tribal council and that it will be fun, Joel had the last confessional: “If it goes as I think it will, Mary’s going home, Mikey’s going to be completely confused as to what happened and it’s going to be me running the show over here. But I’ve been doing a lot of running around and I’ve been talking to a lot of people. If these people are smart, I could see them thinking ‘he’s too powerful, he’s too manipulative’ and being very leery of me. But, either way, I think on my feet so we’ll see what happens.” At TC, Jeff first addressed Kathy getting the immunity idol. She explained Yau Man’s role. Chet was asked about the challenge: “Actually, I wasn’t exhausted, I thought it would be fastest to come back and let someone else go out because I was wasting too much time out there.” Jeff wasn’t convinced and underlined how the other 9 must have felt seeing him struggle. Chet added: “I would have liked to have done better but it didn’t turn out that way.” Mikey raised his hand to comment: “What was worse about Chet struggling was that if you are not a good swimmer why didn’t he make a team move and step down. I was really hurt by it to be honest with you.” Tracy was asked about camp life: “It’s aggravating. We have a lot of conflicts. The older people kinda went one way and the younger group went the other. You sorta get a little chafed by it. You say, I’m either gonna sit back and whine about it or I’m gonna get up and take care of myself.” Natalie told Jeff that people group together: “People have been segregated and now we have two shelters.” Jeff’s eyes showed his surprise at hearing that! Alexis explained: “There was a certain division. There’s two shelter, one housing Chet, Tracy and Kathy. There’s definitely some conflict there.” Jeff went back to Chet: “It looks bad that it’s 3 against 7 but it’s out of my control.” Erik said he’d be scared to be in Chet’s position. Mary spoke about alliances and friendships: “You see alliances forming. I feel pretty secure with my position in the tribe and with the people I choose to communicate with and be friends with.” Joel talked about what he would base his vote on: “I have a conscience, I swear. But I don’t care if anybody goes home, I mean I barely know these people and I don’t put it passed a single one of them to vote me off tonight. It’s a game of loyalty and it’s a game of deception and anyone can go at anytime and you’ll never know who it is.” What to make of Airai’s chances? Although I had first thought of Kathleen as a “Dumb Player”, I now think that she is being portrayed as a “Victim”. She has all the characteristics: We noted her presence early on with some interesting confessionals. She’s made friends with positive characters and then she was confronted by a “Villain” who she could be powerless against. She’ll have fans who will hate to see her go but it seems inevitable. That was Anthony’s story in Fiji where Rocky finally got rid of him. It was also Margaret’s story in Guatemala. I don’t think Kathy’s stay in Micronesia will be more pleasant. Alexis wasn’t featured much in this episode but since it was such a negative one for her tribe, it could be a good sign. Alexis was part of the decision to blindside Mary but she didn’t receive the blame. Being the first player voted out of Airai fit with Mary’s editing of episode #1 when she was identified as a non-factor, a “Brianna” but I think it’s important to determine how the editors wanted us to see Mary in her final episode. Did you see her as a “Victim” of the “Villain” or was her alliance with Mikey a real threat that had to be dealt with? This is important because Winners eliminate “Threats”, and “Tourists”, (Yul dealing with Ozzy’s threat by voting out Cece who, herself, was a “Brianna”. Then Yul went after Cao Boi and Flica, two “Tourists” for example) while “Villains” eliminate “Victims” (Examples being Rocky eliminating Anthony, Judd eliminating Margaret). Normally, we get to know “Victims” early on so, if Kathleen qualifies, Mary didn’t really. On the other hand, her blinside seemed completely unnecessary. I would say that Joel was indeed portrayed as a “Villain”, Now the question is how does that carry-over into Alexis’ chances of winning? As noted above, I found it interesting that Alexis was shown in close-up standing away from the drama and even moreso that we got to hear her voting confessional: “I’m going with the majority, I’m sorry.” She could still be portrayed as the winner of this season but we will have to see her disassociating herself from Joel. How Kathleen is voted out will give us the definite answer. As it stands now, if Alexis is seen as being responsible for Kathy’s eviction, I will doubt her chances of being the Sole Survivor. For a player who had been relegated to the background last week, Joel sure changed his role in the story this week. From the start with his quest for fire, he took on the role of the “Bully”. Our villain managed to fracture a tribe that had a 7-3 division into one that is now split 4-3-2 with both Jason and Mikey out of the loop of the final voting decision. Why did Joel vote Tracy? Was he thinking on his feet and something alerted him at TC? Or was he trying to play innocent and pretend that he wasn’t part of the change of plan? Either way, a fractured tribe is never good for its leaders and Joel worked very hard to be the main leader. Can the 3 older players team up with Jason and Micheal to defeat the “Incredible Hulk”? It would make for another surprising TC! Mikey had a very busy episode also. By aggressively targeting Chet, Tracy and Kathy, Mikey cannot be seen as a positive character but his future depends entirely on how he will be presented in the next episode. Will he take it all in stride like Ozzy and Earl did when they lost Cece and Erica respectively or will he throw a fit and become a target himself? Right now, he is out of the loop and his look of despair at TC was quite revealing. Erik was presented as Joel’s closest ally so he has to be considered a “villain” by association, going along with the diabolical idea. Most of his scenes have been confrontational, from beating Ozzy in episode #1 to saying Chet has reason to be scared. I doubt that he can disassociate himself from the “Bully”. Jason left me puzzled after this episode. After such a strong narration role in the first one, his role turned completely upside down this week. Even if he wasn’t part of the plan to blindside Mary, he is the one confronting the 3 older players. He told us directly how they don’t deserve to stay in his habitat and he thought TC would be fun because, at that time, he was certain Chet was leaving. Such a quick turn around doesn’t go with a long term edit. Natalie was relegated to letting Jeff know about her tribe’s division, confirming her status as a “Briana”, a non-factor in the game who could stay a while but still have no impact on the story. Tracy telling us she may have earned some respect from her tribemates softened her image from the first episode when all she talked about was Fairplay. She was given a role even after the departure of her rival. She could be another “Victim” but with the respect she earned, she could stay longer than the other older players. If she stays off the boot target until the merge, she's the other Fan who has a good edit that could carry her far. Chet was the one on the chopping block so it’s disppointing for his prospects that we heard much more from Tracy and Kathy than himself. More importantly, we were allowed to hear Jeff put him down twice during Tribal Council. Chet isn’t staying much longer.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-17-08, 11:58 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-17-08 AT 12:10 PM (EST) I also want to welcome the new posters to this thread, great insights there! michel, it seems as if you and I are far more in agreement post 2nd episode. Great, great assessments! I really feel like I noted alot of the same things that you did. With the start of the show, we do see the valuable Ozzy, catching a fish with his bare hands. (and I can not help but add how cute he was showing it to the camera man with a smile, . It seems the Favs were satisfied with the decision to vote JFP out. Eliza had the first confessional, which michel noted, was much like the ones she had in Vanuatu, noting that once again it could have been her. I too think her luck will indeed run out sooner rather than later this go round. Next confessional was Jonathan, noting as michel did, his confidence, they really should be able to beat these guys at any type of challenge. Again, I whole heatedly agree with michel, in that all of his confessionals exuded confidence...and again I get the feeling that Jonathan doesn't quite read the situation acurately enough, and has made hasty assumptions that could bite him in the end. Interesting that you noted he was shown at the challenge site when Jiffy mentioned the HII on EI, perhaps this will affect Jonathan in some way. He continues to be a narrator. Then we flip to the Fans tribe, and see total chaos. Their shelter is miserable, tempers are flaring, they can't get fire after losing half of the flint and everyone is blaming someone else. Scary, dysfunctional, highly contrasting to the Favs tribe. Joel clearly is emerging as a "Judd" type character. I noted specifically how possessive he was of the tribe, using the words, "my tribe" alot, "my priority is to keep my tribe strong right now". When Alexis was doing well with the flint at first he pushed her away and said "let me get in here and give it a try, in other words, only I can do it...He appears as a big bully would, scolding and controlling, pointing out that Mikey wants to be in control and has his eye on Mary, and he doesn't like it. Jason allianates himself from Kathy, Tracy and Chet, and then we hear Kathleen note that yes, they are the outcasts, and so they are indeed going to make their own shelter. I say to myself, this tribe is in serious trouble....then cut to the Favs beach with the light, carefree, happy, carribean music, where we immediately see Ozzy in front of the boat with the Favs, and he jumps off to swim to find food. I can't help but think, he's learning!!! Instead of going out on his own to fish, he is taking the entire tribe with him, SMART!!! Then we see Yau-man alone back at camp. I'd say this doesn't bode well for Yau-ans end game...Survivor is social and you can not segregate yourself. Then Jonathan notes that he hopes the fans are far behind them on the camp curve...which is indeed true. Then we see Ozzy and Amanda, and Ozzy's confessional about how beautiful Amanda is and how he wants to stay as far apart as possible as he wants to avoid a big target on his back(this does indeed show that Ozzy is aware of his predicament,...then the flirting Parv and James....and we hear Amanda's confessional, she doesn't want it to screw up her game. Noting the confessionals from Ozzy, Amanda, and Parvati, I think bodes better for the three of them, noting that we did not hear from James... Then back to the Fans, and they note Tracy's new shelter and the others are admiring it, Mikey tries to be the diplomat and says let's build ours right next to yours and put the fire there and bury the hatchet. Joel sees this and again looks at Mikey as threatening, I think. It's Joel and Mikey, the 2 alphas that finally make fire. Okay here is where I see the John Nash Theory in application. When there are a tribe of alphas, leaders, the winner will be a follower....if one from this tribe will win the game it will indeed be one of the followers...food for thought. Then the sounds of jungle love, as noted by Cirie. Cirie, finally is front and center. Jonathan notes that Cirie has agreed to work with him down the road, but notes his core alliance as himself, Ami, Yau-man, and Eliza. Is this misdirection, I get the feeling that indeed it is. We are led to believe that Cirie will go with them in this episode, but will she? Clearly she is in the hot seat. Still don't know what to make out of the lovers Now off to the challenge, where the fans applaud the favs for voting out Fairplay. We hear about exile island and the Hidden II(I saw that Eliza and Jonathan were noted) and we see the reaction from Ozzy as Jiffy unveils the reward, fishing gear. We all know who the provider is....Another thing that I noticed is when Jiffy pulled the tarp off of the fishing gear, and they showed Ozzy's reaction, they again played the light happy, carribean music, VERY briefly. Is the music associated with tribe Malakal, or is it with Ozzy? We see when Jason takes on Ozzy, that clearly Ozzy outdoes him, will he outlast him too? I note that the only ones that were not shown falling on the lily pads were Ozzy, Alexis, Jonathan, Parvati, and Mikey B....wondering if there is significance at all to that? Did note that Jeff noted Ozzy makes it, and Jason does not. James did a great job with the keys as did Cirie, Eliza, and Yau-man with the puzzle. At the end of the challenge we see the happy Ozzy when Jiffy notes they won the Fishing gear, we later see Ozzy pick it all up, then we see Ozzy hug Yau-man. The camera really does like Ozzy... Cirie and Kathleen off to EI, again Kathleen is in awe of Cirie. They do quite well in finding all of the clues, imo, but will they fall short of the hidden II. Cirie narrates their adventure, boding better for Cirie perhaps than Kathleen. Then back to the Fans camp, where Mikey goes into his plot, which is quite grand, and indeed complicated. The sinister Joel, notes that he doesn't like it, and he has the entire tribe voting the way he wants, but if "I" have anything to do about it it won't happen. Then we see Joel jump into action, and in the end, it is indeed a blindside, and Mikey is dumbfounded. Alpha vs. Alpha. Score one for Joel, but I can't help but think, but at what expense? I see a tribe fractured first off 7 against 3, now, Joel has successfully fractured the majority of the 7. This could have been his fatal error in the game, and I can not help but think he will indeed end up being blindsided as well. I hope it's sooner rather than later as well. There is no question that Joel has emerged the villain to me. To answer michel's question, I saw Mary and Mikey as the victims here. Interesting that Erik and Alexis seem to be under Joel's spell...if he is to be blindsided will one of them be at the crux of it? I thought that Tracy had an interesting confessional, how Joel wants the million dollars more than anyone here, and he won't stop at anything to get it....Tracy has his number....wonder what that will mean to her, when indeed Joel is running the show? TC, we see Joel enter last, cast in a shadow....the villain. When Jiffy said that fire represents life, the camera was on Alexis. Then Jiffy questions Chet, and Mikey notes he was urked by Chet's performance, then Tracy comments on the fracture of the tribe. Natalie notes how there is some segregation, then Alexis notes that Chet, Tracy and Kathy are living by themselves. Erik would be concerned if he was Chet and scared. Mary let's talk about alliances, yes she sees alliances and she feels secure in her position....Joel, first admits that he does have a conscience, but he will vote anybody as he really doesn't know these people. Kathy keeps immunity, Erik is up to vote....votes shown are Mikey as he votes for Chet, then we hear Alexis say that she just went with the majority, sorry, but we do not see her vote. Then the blindside occurs, Mikey is shocked, Joel smiles. First tc, first blindside. Next week: It seems that Cirie is front and center. Definately her story started in episode 2, and is gaining ground in episode 3. I think I know which group she will side with, but she could indeed draw it out, over more than one episode. We will most definately know where she stands the next time the Favs go to TC. As for the Fans, it will be most interesting to see how Mikey handles the blindside...and what happens to the Airai tribe in general. ***I wanted to note that I pay particular attention to the vidcaps. This past week the diving Ozzy was all over them, meant to be vidcaps for this particular episode. I had noted that the diving Ozzy shot had Jiffy in a light blue shirt and Ozzy did not have his buff on his arm, as he did sitting on the beach after his turn...therefore this led me to believe that there were indeed 2 challenges for this week. Yet, in ep 2 there was only one challenge. The diving Ozzy shots that were all over the previews, were not from this episode, they are from a future episode. Clearly there was no dock in this challenge for Jiffy to run on and narrate from the side out in the water. He was also wearing a lighter blue shirt in the future challenge. In ep 2 challenge he wore a dark blue shirt, and he stayed on the beach with the daws as they started their legs of the race. Just something to note regarding the editing!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-17-08, 04:02 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-18-08 AT 10:38 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 02-17-08 AT 04:07 PM (EST) Edited to note Veruca's point that Alexis, Joel, Eric and perhaps Natalie are in a sub alliance and Ami's one dimensional edit. Mocha here again with my impressions from episode 2 and what edits and relationships have changed/remained the same. Episode 2 Relationships, alliances, rivalries, bullying (+change, =same) + Chet+ Kathy+ Tracey vs. {(Mikey + Mary) + (Alexis+ Natalie + Joel + Eric)+ Jason} + Jason, Erik, Joel vs. Kathy, Chet, Tracey + Kathy +Cirie + Joel vs. Mikey = Mikey=Jonathon = (Ozzy + Amanda) + (James + Pavarti) = Ami + Jonathon + Eliza + Yauman Individual edits - I agree with Michel - some major change of edits from the first episode (+ more dimension/change, = same, -less/one dimensional edit) KEY: Physical threat edit (P), Social threat edit (S), Immunity idol/Intelligent threat edit (I), Villan edit (V), Attitue/Annoying edit (A) out early or end game goat, Weak/Victim edit (W) Clueless/Non-strategic edit (C), Flirt edit (F) Ozzy (FPS) + Added strategic/flirt edit to physical Amanda(FWS) + Weakenss highlighted in challenge also flirt edit Pavarti (SFP) = flirt and social threat edit continues James (F) - Diminished to only the flirt edit Cirie(SWI) + Cirie got credit for solving the immunity idol clues but came up short physically Jonathon (SP) + Physcal edits added to the strategic Eliza (SI) + Intelligence edit (puzzle solver) added to strategic Ami (P) - Phyical edit (swimming) this week Yauman(I) - although he was part of the puzzle solving he did not get edited as the solver Mikey (S,F,I) + Edit changed to too smart for his own good plus the flirt edit Mary (F) - only flirt edit highlighted Alexis (S,P) + Swimming and social highlighted Natalie - again not much of an edit Joel (VPS) + huge villian#1 edit Erik(PSA) + Villian #2 edit (comments about chet and older survivors) Jason (PVC) + Came up short in the rivalry with Ozzy and was shown as bully (villian #3?) towards Kathy, also excitement about going to tribal/left out of tribal dynamics. Tracey (AC) + Part of the older alliance but the most useful and better attitude than the others Kathy (AW) + weak/victim added to lack of social edit Chet (AW) - Change to weak edit Based on the change from episode 1 to 2 on the Favs Ozzy and Cirie were highlighted/edited the most. On Fans Joel and Kathy were highlighted/edited the most. As Veruca has stated in past seasons this doesn't mean they will win but it does mean that they will be around until the issues with these characters are resolved. In fact the more flirtatious, rivalrous or parallel relationships mean the better their chances for staying in the game longer. Episode 3 Preview said Cirie takes control of her tribe. So for the FAVS this episode will be huge in determining which alliance will be successful Ozzy/Amanda/James/Pavarti vs. Jonathon/Elize/Ami/Yauman. I have a feeling she will go with the younger folks again because she can fill a "mother" role for them(Kathy's comment about how sweet and motherly Cirie is comes to mind). I'm not sure what vital role she would play with the older villians and the oh so likable Yauman. It only makes sense that she would latch onto the more physical alliance because she is not physical player. It's also easier to play the 2 dyads against each other later in the game, as Michel noted. FANS: The fallout from the power struggle between Joel and Mikey will be interesting, but either way, I agree with Flowerpower, it looks like Joel's bullying and backstabbing will have negative consequences for him and the tribe. MOCHA   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabeat 0 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "New Member" 02-17-08, 10:16 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" Allow me to be a bit of a contrarian on some of the Jonathon sentiments. Right now I think, next to Alexis, he's had the best winner's edit out of them all and so I don't agree that we're seeing the same old arrogant narrator. His edit has changed. For one, did anyone notice that Jonathon was no longer being called out as "Jonathon" but instead as "Penner", ie new persona. And instead of making enemies like last time, we've seen him addressing his past foibles and consistently making allies such as in this past episode with Cirie (in a scene remarkably similiar to the Todd-Amanda pact in China's 2nd episode). Strategically speaking, even if Cirie were to side with the dating couples for the near future, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Penner would be the last one standing from his core four and the two then turning the tables later on in the game. To end, while Penner has gotten a lot camera time the first two episodes, he hasn't garnered the most on his tribe in either one, those roles went to Fairplay and Cirie respectively. Just my two cents.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-18-08, 07:24 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" The Recap 10 fans pitted against 10 favorites Both tribes immediately competed for individual immunity YM won idol - helped Kathy get idol The fans struggled on the beach and failed to build solid shelter At first IC favorites relied on experience but it wasn't enough Favorites split into two alliances (Eliza reflects on her group of Ami/Jonathan/YM and the other group of Amanda/Ozzy/Parvarti/James) Both groups wanted to recruit the same player (JFP then shown with his revelation) But not everyone was entirely convinced (Ami suspicious) In the end the entire tribe wrote down his name.... Some premises are set up for this immediate episode; notably the fans struggling at their camp which is expanded upon this episode, the continuing expansion of the favorites tribe split into two alliances with Cirie now in the mix as the "next" recruitment. I do note that Jeff’s words that the favorites relied on experience was not enough would play nicely should our ending be just that ----- experience was NOT enough. Ami, unfortunately was not at all prominent in this episode however it is interesting to note she was utilized in the opening. This may not mean anything but it also did not necessarily have to be shown either. Post Tribal Council Ozzy (conf) "...we lost Fairplay but we gained a fish; maybe that's a good omen?" Immediate payoff with their win Eliza (conf) "We had TC tonight and JFP asked us to vote him off and I kept thinking something was going to happen.... and I would end up being the one to go home first" Jonathan (conf) "...it screwed up my plans but you know everyone knows that if we continue to do what we are doing, we should be able to win I figure everyone came out here 30, 33... days, that times 9 is basically a year worth of experience... confident we can beat these guys at almost any challenge" Not very surprising that we should have Eliza and Jonathan be the core speakers for tribal dynamics as both have been and continue to be solid narrators. With that said, Eliza's words are just enough for the audience to remember and/or learn that she could have been eliminated which is the continuation of the first episode premise and may still play a role if they were to go to Tribal Council. Jonathan's words also are a transition from the first episode where we heard a few comments on how the favorites knowledge of the game should give them the advantage which ties directly to the theme. For the remainder of the episode, we were able to flesh out the fan dynamic which, per the norm, should happen in light of their going to Tribal Council. I would also say that we learned quite a bit about their dynamics as a unit but still have quite a bit to learn about them individually. Hints have been given (Erik's preoccupation with "beating" Ozzy, Jason's dream of being stranded on an island, Kathy woefully out of her element, etc) The parallels of each tribe's dynamic is very interesting as we do see how "experience" DOES indeed prove relevant to this game. Note the differences between the way each tribe was edited going to their Tribal Council. The favorites established their boundaries and their business and moved accordingly. The fans, however, were all over the place in terms of conducting a very important part of the game - strategy. Ultimately Mary leaving may have been very sound but the means to get there was chaos. This, is in addition to their difficulties with camp life while the favorites are edited as shown to take to this as pros. Ironically there is a big storyline from the favorites of “breaking up the couples” and we see the “fans” nip their “couple” immediately. Will the favorites who need this to happen fail and could that be their downfall? This is unknown for now but it IS a pending storyline. As I stated last week, while it may just be too good to be true, the competition at the end would be only fitting that one member from the fans and the favorites would complete this season perfectly. The Fans Opening sequence shows a band of confused players trying to get their act together. Alexis (conf) "It's day four and we are in a bad place right now... everyone tired and hungry but at the challenge yesterday we beat the favorites and won flint and flint is fire.....we're golden" Foreshadowing? Alexis shown working the flint enthusiastically but the day moves on and frustration builds. Kathy (conf) "....the boys are still back there..... but we got nothing! Number one priority for me is shelter.... so what is the problem" The tribe dynamic begins to reveal as the importance of shelter vs. fire take place. Chet, Kathy and Tracey are slowly revealed to be outside of their tribe and Joel starts to reveal his opinions and thought process as he yells at Kathy. A voice over by Mikey of "Oh it's so much drama" is heard with Alexis shown on camera. Another argument develops with Jason laying claim to his sleeping area with Kathy and Tracey exasperated. Jason (conf) "Tracey, Kathy and Chet… I don't think they accomplished a single, productive thing all day long and I told them straight up I don't want them sleeping with us..." Tracey refers to the others as "kids" and thus, we see how relationships are built due to various biological and social attributes. Kathy is again emotional. Kathy (conf) "Tracey, Chet and myself have pretty much been shunned by the other people and you can't fight 7 against 3 and you just relieve stuff in your life like high school where you didn't fit in... it just brings it all back" The larger group sees the three build their own shelter as Joel states "tell me we're not dividing" Mikey states no it is, quite obviously. Our premise is now established with our fans. The groups have been specifically shown which lent to how Tribal Council ended as it did. We were told that the three are essentially not productive and do nothing but that was never really validated except in Chet’s case at the challenge. In fact, Kathy's confessional, despite if people like/dislike her, was meant to evoke sympathy. Feeling they are the outcasts coupled with Jason’s attitude, Joel’s “bully” tone with no real concrete provocation did not really tell the audience that these three are worthless. The scenes regarding the division of the tribe were actually more favorable to the “outcast three” then the likes of Joel, Jason and Mikey (these three were the most prevalent in their annoyance The Favorites Opening scene of being on the boat, catching food, YM at pot to cook, a very cohesive working unit. Jonathan (conf) "We were quite disorganized at the last challenge so we're going to do a little better today. We are hoping the fans slept poorly and are behind us on the camp curve cause we're doing great, honestly" (Note this confessional also includes the later confessional where he discusses the “romance” he witnessed at night) Ozzy then shown under water looking for food then on the beach with King Neptune talent intact with his catch of the day as Amanda approaches. Ozzy (conf) "I'm starting to become... really attracted to Amanda; she is so cute, I mean she is beautiful and it's just like (groans) gotta stay apart as long as possible because if it becomes obvious to the group I'm gonna have a giant target on my back" (Camera shots shown of Amanda and Ozzy together with YM "watching" then Eliza "watching") James and Parvarti are also shown interacting/flirting Parvarti (conf) "I started off working a flirting angle with James; it was so easy because he is just so cute” Camera shots then shown of Jonathan, Ami and Amanda, Amanda shown watching Jonathan asks Amanda if it is love with an on screen: “I don't know” by Amanda Amanda (conf) "I definitely think James and Parvarti have something going on and I always thought Ozzy was really, really cute so it's kind of a coupley alliance, yeah; (Jonathan shown "observant") but I just gotta be careful because I don't want to screw up my game" It is possible Amanda’s confessional is from an earlier time period as I find it hard to believe she is only just now realizing that James and Parvarti have something going on. With that stated of the four involved, James did not receive any confessional about his relationship with Parvarti which has me question how important his role is this season other than as part/parcel of Parvart and this alliance. What is most notable is how both Ozzy and Amanda acknowledge how they feel; shown to state how they HAVE to be careful however the remainder of the episode showcases the two of them conveniently forgetting their own warning. What should that elicit from the audience then? The audience has been manipulated effectively. Ozzy and Amanda are aware they need to be careful. They decide to forget being careful in full view of others which is then validated by both Jonathan and Cirie. Ozzy and Amanda are ALSO given imagery of two rats. This may, ultimately, be what is shown to be their downfall at some point. While Parvarti has not yet “proven” she does have more dimension, in an episode mostly devoted to the fans with a few hints of developing story for the favorites, Parvarti is also conveniently thrown into the mix advising that “she started off working a flirting angle… it was so easy” This is a bit different than Ozzy/Amanda stating they have to watch themselves and then shown ignoring their own warnings. Pavarti is not stating what she is doing may be a problem and she is also shown reminding the audience of her plans. Parvarti is not necessarily meant to be liked but she also did not look in this episode to directly violate anything she stated. The real clue of Parvarti’s success this season, however, will be if she puts her money where her mouth is and the audience begins to see strategy other than one dimensional flirting. At this time, we have not quite reached that point BUT the glimpses of her this episode did not have the same impact as they did with the scenes of Ozzy and Amanda. Fans The little tribe of three put up a shelter that Erik even questions how they did it with no time. Tracey (conf) "Kathy, Chet and myself made a shelter…” "...others came over and asked to help them so I think I earned a little bit of respect from them" The group is shown looking at the shelter and they are impressed while Mikey states to Tracey that they will have two shelters, fire in middle and bury the hatchet" while Tracey volunteers to Joel to show them how they did it. A victorious moment then shown with Mikey and Alexis trying again for fire and accomplishing it. Mary (conf) "...we got fire, now we can boil water, we actually found some clams... definitely a good feeling" The group is then shown eating and happy as Mary continues: "the whole dynamic the tribe just completely turned around, everyone put their issues behind them and much more unified tribe" The outsiders accomplished a shelter that required the “others” to need assistance. This certainly does not lend well to the edit of those who openly criticized the outcast of three. Tracey received some good narration as did Kathy while Chet (who was in the most danger of leaving) had no fleshing out whatsoever. Some romance is blooming with the fans as well Mikey (conf) "I'm definitely flirting with Mary, I'm having fun with her on the island no shirt sitting with trees around him I want to get Mary to trust me and if I can use my flirtatious ability to get her in my back pocket then I'm gonna use it" Note that all of Mikey’s confessionals this episode occurred in the same spot therefore his discussion about Mary and about the upcoming vote at Tribal Council were in the same time period Joel (conf) "Mikey, I think really likes how Mary looks… that’s like out of player school 101. Obviously I am going to keep my eyes on them but my priority is to keep my tribe strong so I think the three outsiders, Tracy, Chet and Kathy will be out of here as soon as possible” Note also that Joel’s confessionals also appeared in the same time/location that had him discuss Mikey/Mary, the scenarios of the upcoming Tribal Council, his issues with Mikey, how Joel reflects on how he is perceived, etc. The Favorites Cirie’s role finally received her due with the commencement of the “romance” and later at Exile Island. This episode was Cirie’s “break out role” which compared with Ami and YM bodes much better for her chances. She is now integrated into multiple story lines. Cirie (conf) “I was awake quite a bit last night. Heard the sounds of jungle love I guess; it’s a little more than alliances with those guys; that’s what makes it scary” Jonathan and Cirie both commiserate with each other Jonathan (conf) “It’s silly you know…. go get a hotel room, you got to take one step back and think somebody’s awake. We are sleeping together in a cave!” (Note this confessional is the same as the earlier confessional where he discusses doing better on the “camp curve” Jonathan “I’m afraid of Parvarti, James, Amanda and uh, Ozzy” Done in voice over - foreshadowing? Cirie “Me too!” Jonathan “Right. Totally tight” Cirie (conf) “The two couples separate don’t really bother me, the four of them together poses a problem” “I don’t know just yet how to dismantle that foursome. But I’m gonna try” (This is a continuation of her earlier confessional. Interesting to note that Cirie gives the audience a future premise on perhaps SHE being the one to dismantle the foursome?) Jonathan “So should we think about working a little bit together? You want to think about that?” Cirie “Oh I definitely want to think about that okay” Jonathan (conf) “We have myself, Eliza, Ami, YM…. and we need one more the lock and that was Cirie who told me she would work with me down the line if we decide to go that far together” (The above was an entirely different confessional which, it stands to reason, may not have occurred during this time frame as it may be more suited for when this tribe foresees that they are going to Tribal Council. If the “favorites” are to go to Tribal Council shortly, Jonathan’s confessional may have been taken from a future episode. This is certainly affirming more storyline for the future) The Challenge At the challenge, perhaps just a coincidental visual but Jeff’s words about the idol and power in the game met with a solo shot of Jonathan immediately after which was felt to be a bit manipulated. Whether Jonathan is the benefactor OR the victim will be interesting to note in terms of manipulated visuals which have occurred in the past. Kathy is selected to sit out (in some fashion) and the challenge centered around Chet’s hopeless attempts which met with disapproval as pointed out immediately by Jeff stating Chet took a big fall on the lily pad (note that both Ami and Amanda both fell on theirs just prior) with Joel’s voice over to “watch the key” then Chet not being able to and the camera showing Chet walking back to shore only helped to solidify his ineptitude which was completely magnified at this challenge The favorites win and discussion seemed to focus around YM in terms of who they would select to exile and Kathy was chosen. Cirie volunteers and the challenge is over. Exile Island Exile Island will prove to be another useful editing tool as we have been able to see how longer term players are evolved more when they were sent to EI. In this instance, it seemed fairly clear that Cirie has longevity over Kathy as Cirie was the sole narrator over the events at EI. One would think if Kathy was a long term player, the editors would make sure the audience gets to know her there even more since we already know Cirie. Kathy only received one confessional and it was about Cirie Cirie (conf) “Right now my team has nine people. Parvarti and those guys and Jonathan and those guys and then I’m smack dab in the middle; I’m going to EI and all I’m thinking is God please let me find the HII….” (Further progression of future events) The remainder of time shown was Cirie and Kathy’s rather humorous quest to find the idol and Cire’s entire narration. As stated for Kathy to not have narrated anything other than her pleasure at being with Cirie is not good in terms of Kathy’s longevity regardless of any other factors. The only item to note with Kathy’s confessional is her statement that Cirie has learned a lot…she’s right there… That may be an interesting foreshadow to our resident “couch potato” and perhaps has a deeper meaning in how Cirie fares. Perhaps this is reflective of Cirie’s capabilities as long term player and builds upon another theme of past players making changes to correct past mistakes. The Fans Alexis gives her tribe applause as no matter what they “win as a team and lose as a team” Joel acknowledges the swimmers and Erik provides confessional about Tribal Council and that Chet is the likely candidate due to his challenge performance. Note the difference in a confessional such as Erik’s as opposed to one like Cirie’s or Jonathan’s. Erik is strictly reporting the issues at hand presently; there is no manipulation Mikey (conf) “All of us know who we want to go home; that would be Chet but there are a lot of variables that come into play which make it difficult” (Again, same confessional spot as his earlier one) We are then shown A LOT of variables told by Mikey to the group and the remainder of his confessional. Joel (conf) “Mikey’s throwing out all these scenarios on and on so much it confuses me. My initial thought was Chet you are outta here but Mikey thinks he’s got it all figured out and I don’t like that; he teamed up with Mary and now he thinks he’s got the entire tribe voting the way he wants to vote…if I have anything to say about that… it will be abundantly clear that is not the case” (Again, solely reporting. Joel’s time this episode, while escalated, centered around the current events and, in fact, his edit rang on the side of someone who might get what he gave) We then proceed to the next morning with Joel, Erik and Alexis (which we then note to be an alliance together with Joel stating Mikey can’t be trusted and Mikey and Mary need to be broken up Joel (conf) “Yesterday we lost IC… and Mikey seems to think he’s running the show (done in voice over) and I just want to put a stop to it” (Again, this is a continuation of his earlier confessional) “Mike and Mary are close and I believe that if we have one person who believes they are leading this tribe in a certain direction their strongest alliance in my mind is the alliance to break” A parallel to the favorites; the fans took an opportunity to break up a potential romantic partnership. The two romantic partnerships at the favorites’ tribe reflect one of danger for the others. Will they take the same opportunity or miss out and regret it? As stated, Mikey and Joel’s confessionals were all of the same period; there was no manipulation involved which makes me question if there is not a lot of footage of either of them from the future that could have been incorporated into this episode. Many times we see footage from future confessionals that could be tied to another situation; this did not happen for either. For example, Jonathan this episode had various confessionals, not of all which were from the same time period and this episode was not even favorite oriented. In other words, despite how heavily Joel and Mikey were featured there was no manipulation involved. Erik (conf) “Joel suggested that we, along with Alexis, work together and get rid of Mary; it could be a good idea because Mikey is a really smart guy and he knows what he is doing here” (It will be interesting to see if there is any foreshadowing to Joel advising that Mikey would stab anyone in the back coupled with Erik’s noting Mikey is intelligent; will Joel get “stabbed” in the back by Mikey?) Joel and Erik are shown at a different time with Joel explaining how Mikey is needed for the competitions and thus, necessary to keep which again may end up being something Joel may regret Kathy returns after Joel takes Chet and Tracy in on his plan and Joel does ask Kathy if she told Cirie all about them. Another humorous moment is shown with Joel telling Kathy to vote for Mary as Kathy looks a bit perplexed as to whether there is even a Mary on her tribe. Kathy (conf) “…when I come back right away Joel steps up to me and says “It’s Mary” I’m like where did Mary come from?” Kathy tells Tracy and Chet she needs guidance. Tracy “Over the last two days Kathy, Chet and myself are against the other seven, finally see a window of opportunity but I just don’t know if I can trust Joel. Joel wants this million dollars probably more than anybody here and I feel like he’s gonna stop at nothing to get it” (Foreshadowing of a potential villainous edit of Joel and later on at TC, shades and hues of reaping what you sow as well.) Joel is then shown talking to Natalie with Mary’s confessional and back to tribe dynamics. Jason was left completely out of any discussion so it appears that Joel had enlisted Alexis and Erik with possibly Natalie to be part of his group as Jason did not vote for Mary (Joel didn’t either but that was for different reasons.) What was also interesting is that Chet did not receive any confessionals about this vote which does not bode well for him at all. HE was the one in danger more than anyone yet Kathy and Tracy talked to the camera and he did not. We didn’t hear how this plan could save him or that he was worried he would be the next to leave; this does suggest that Chet is not a long term player. Joel (conf) “…tonight Mary is going home, Mikey will be completely confused as to what happened and it will be me running the show over here. But I’ve been doing a lot of running around; I’ve been talking to a lot of people and if these people are smart I could see them thinking he’s too powerful, too manipulative and being very leery of me but either way I think I’m upbeat so we’ll see what happens” Again, same confessional area and strictly one dimensional. Tribal Council Very intense entrance music to note. The cymbals have also been a musical sound I attempt to note and they occurred at the following: Kathy can give idol to someone before the vote (cut to Chet) Chet advising that his performance did not turn out the way he wanted; Natalie stating there is segregation and Tracy stating camp life aggravating Kathy is asked how she found the first idol. Chet was asked about the challenge with Jeff emphasizing how he did (or didn’t do) which was validated by Jeff. Mikey discusses he was “irked” over the way Chet handled the challenge Tracy discussed camp life and the segregation Natalie brings up the segregation and how there are two shelters (Natalie was not given any confessionals during this episode although there were some manipulated visuals) Alexis expands on this and that it has been difficult Chet advises the vote is out of his control Erik advises he would be nervous if he was Chet as he is outside the numbers Mary advises that she feels secure with the people she is with Joel advises he doesn’t care about these people and who goes home and doesn’t put it past any of them to vote him out either: “It’s a game of loyalty (Alexis) and a game of deception (Mikey)” Of note, Jason did not receive any question to answer – not horrible but not necessarily a good sign in terms of end game when everyone else got a question at their first TC. Mikey and Alexis received vote discussion and Mary is “blindsided” Jeff: “Congratulations, first blindside” (an editing oops shown when Jeff utters these words as Mary is still there when he utters these words. I would need to go back to determine if another season with “blindsides” was foreshadowed as such as Jeff did not speak these words; we only heard them as the shot was on the contestants) At this juncture, Ami and YM were significantly underused when they could have even been given a “fluff” comment about the romance of the pairs. Eliza was not an issue for this episode since the favorites did not have to go to TC but she received an early confessional reminding the audience of where she stands and she received a visual in “observing” the couples. YM did as well but he received no air time and Ami received neither. Jonathan and Cirie did very well this episode and both appear to have future storylines pending. The romantic angle was again played up and it really did not have to be unless it is of some importance. On the fans side, Kathy did well in terms of face time but no focus was given to her on Exile Island which does not bode well for her. Chet could have had a huge role this episode and was completely neglected except for visual validation that he did not do well on this challenge. Joel is coming to a storyline for himself and I do question whether he ends up getting what he gave. Mikey was increased but it was necessary in terms of the storyline since he was “bamboozled.” The remainder of the fans appeared to be leveled with no real escalation or demotion in their air time.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-20-08, 00:54 AM (EST) 26. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" Now that some of the alliances have been introduced... let's see if episode 3 continues to highlight the importance of the same members over others in the alliance. Episode 1-2 # of Relationships (rivalries/romances/alliances)/parallels/time on screen could mean longevity in the game. Fans in order of longevity? Young ones: Joel, Eric, Jason, Mikey, Alexis,Natalie Older ones: Kathy, Tracey, Chet I put Joel/Eric/Jason in front because of their rivalry with Ozzy, Mikey and the older ones. Favs in order of longevity? Showmancers: Ozzy, Pavarti, James, Amanda Strategists: Jonathon, Eliza, Yauman, Ami Cirie (hasn't been shown as part of an alliance yet) I rated the Showmancer alliance higher than stategists because of the jungle love edit. Ozzy ends up before Pavarti because of the many people that are competing against him. James is in front of Amanda b/c of his potential rivalry against Joel (2 strongest men). I put Jonathon in front of Eliza b/c of his parallels with Mikey. Eliza and Jonathon in front because of their rivalry with Pavarti. Yauman in front of Ami b/c of his ties to Kathy and the immunity idol. Cirie's postion should change dramatically once she is shown picking an alliance. MOCHA   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-20-08, 04:34 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" HELP!!!!! I have a whole writeup that I want to post here complete with italics, bold, and underlining. i wrote it in microsoft word, but when i bring it over none of the formating is retained. i cant even figure out how to format font in my post...please help. (i promise that it is good analysis....)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-20-08, 05:09 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love" Hi b1whois...no worries, we will get it in! Just copy and paste into your reply. Then just above the 'your message' in your reply, is some text in red. Click on the "HTML Reference"....this will explain to you how to do EVERYTHING!!! For example, you will use the < and it's counterpart, put those brackets around b and then type what you want bolded and then type the brackets around /b and you will see your text in bold. If you want to use italics, use the brackets with an i in them, type the text you want in italics, and then end it with the brackets and /i in it and the text well appear in italics.[P>You can preview your message before you post it by hitting the preview button at the bottom of your post....no worries and I hope this helps... fp   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-21-08, 04:28 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" ok, here goes... here is a mostly complete transcript of the Insider Clips. I find it interesting as things that were NOT shown. I don't know quite how to analyze what is shown, this goes to an audience of more survivor fans more devoted than the casual viewer, who may be more interested in strategy. The insider clips showing Mary's final words and Mary's day after speech are not included, as they did not seem to have any pertinent info. Bickering at Airai. “Joel, firefighter and father of two, plays peacemaker at the divided Airai tribe. ” Clip of crab scuttling across the sand. (CUT) Erik's shoe kicks a coconut. (CUT) Jason and Erik are on the beach Jason is chopping a coconut while he complains that Kathy hasn’t brought him any coconuts at all yet. (CUT weird, looks like Tracy is walking by, this has no relevance???) Just then, Kathy returns with a coconut. Jason grouches that “it’s only one.” Kathy says that one is better than none. (CUT, closeup of Erik, with Erik voicing over, followed by Erik interviewing on screen) “This camp is driving me nuts.” He feels like he’s stuck between two parents who don’t get along. (CUT) SNAKE ON SAND VISUAL as we hear Chet saying that he thinks Joel is an intelligent person. (CUT) We then see Chet and Joel walking on the beach. Chet says that Jason is causing all sorts of problems with his attitude. (CUT) Joel interviews that he’s trying not to let his emotions play him through the game. (CUT) Back on the beach, Joel says they have to deal and tells Chet to keep calm. Chet complains some more. Joel says that they just can’t let these things blow up and get bigger. Chet says, “You don’t know me very well, do you?” (CUT) Joel ends by interviewing, “When your emotions get the best of you, you start to lose.” We are not seeing that Jason is annoying and Joel is smart. Joel's omission fits into his "Villain" edit. Jason's omission? Hmmm…perhaps they are just saving it for later. Mary's Secret Scene “Mary lets her guard down and is outwitted by the competition.” The clip starts with the Fan females all lounging together in the ocean. (CUT) Mary interviews that she has made some good bonds, especially with Alexis and Natalie. (CUT) Mary listens as Alexis waxes poetic: “Money doesn't buy you happiness. Money doesn't buy you love.” “I feel so blessed to have learned that lesson. If I have money or don't have money, like, that's not what makes me who I am. And it certainly does not make me happy...” the girls continue to bond. (CUT) Mary interviews that Alexis has a really, really good soul and a huge heart and she gives off a vibe that she doesn't have any plans that are going to ruin any alliances. She sees Alexis as “very pure and honest”. (CUT) Alexis tells Natalie why they should vote for Mary: “ it will really help us out, because it will guarantee us two, if Mary's not here.” The girls giggle about feeling bad for doing it, but they are doing it anyway. Natalie says she thought she wouldn't tell a lie out here, but...” Natalie and Alexis promise to be true to each other. <Alexis does a cool little dance move here, these two definitely seem to connect> (CUT) Alexis voices over “Girls know that whenever three girls are hanging out, there's always one who is left out. So I think that if Mary were out of the picture then it really bonds Natalie and myself.” (CUT) previous scene is continued...Natalie is very happy as Alexis tells her “ I would hug you but it would be too obvious...” and they fake hug before they break up to “find some vines” as Alexis puts it. This may have been held from the show to protect Alexis from a villainous association with the blindside of Mary. Joel's Master Plan “Joel explains his devious strategy to control his tribe while keeping a low profile, and breaking up the threatening alliances around him.” Joel interviews on screen: We are a tribe of strong personalities, you know. Everybody here, I think, has a strong personality. I don't really see anybody that is kinda like...well, Erik might be a little bit of ho-hum. But I think there is little bit more going on there,with Erik, than we might see. He would be the only one that I would say is kinda “hmm, whatever” kind of person. Which can be, good, too. But, you know, we're a tribe of very strong personalities and just don't want to let anything go. We want it our way. We think we know the best way to do it, we think we've got the best example. We've had the best experiences and what we bring is the best thing to be brought to the table and on and on and on and on down the line. (CUT) There was an argument last night about some palm fronds. Jason was concerned about keeping himself protected from the rain, while he was watching the fire. Which is of concern. But, his solution was to take palm fronds off of Chet and Tracy's, you know, their covering, and their roof basically, to protect himself. Which I couldn't figure out the thought process there, other than the fact he doesn't like Tracy and Chet. It didn't make sense to me...I didn't want to get involved in the argument but the argument kept getting more and more heated and more and more heated and so I finally stood up and told them to take a break. And they didn't really want to take a break at first and so I had to get a little more forceful I told them they needed to take a break or, i...would tear down every shelter we have on the island. (CUT) I have been thinking about the dynamic of the game overall. And it is. Its a game, its a game of loyalty and its a game of deception. If we have one person who believes that they are leading this tribe in a certain direction, their strongest alliance, in my mind, would be the alliance to break, because if it is perceived by the rest of the tribe that this individual, being Mikey, is leading the tribe leading the tribe in a certain direction then that alliance could grow if it is viewed as strong. People will want to jump on board. (CUT) I have spoken with Erik. I have spoken with Alexis. I have spoken with Natalie. And I believe that is my “strong four”. I hope it is. I really hope it is. Because if that's a strong four then this is the way I see things working out: Tonight, Mary goes home. That's Mikey's alliance. That's done. Mikey's left with Jason. That's two. Then you have the other three: Tracy, Kathy, and Chet. That's three. We've got them beat either way. The only way that it wouldn't be the case is if Mikey and Jason teamed up with Tracy, Kathy and Chet. Tracy absolutely hates Jason and I don't believe they would ever team up together. They would be smart if they set that aside, but I will let that fester as long as I possibly can, and possibly feed it. Chet absolutely hates Jason. I don't' see them teaming up. So, my objective would be to play the three, Tracy, Kathy and Chet, against Mikey and Jason once Mary is gone. For Alexis to still act as though she is in Mikey's pocket. For Erik to still act as though he is very tight with Jason, and for Natalie to still act as though she is outside and doesn't know who she is with. While I am saying “I've got no alignment with anybody, I have no favoritism, I am totally impartial, whatever you guys want to do, I'm in.” So, first off, we are not being shown how smart Joel is playing. Does the withholding of this info mean that Joel doesn't win? That he is not in the Final Three? The editors are choosing the villain edit for poor Joel, while there is lots of other material that is being swept under the rug. Secondly, we are not being shown what a villain Jason is. Why is this being kept from the viewers? Does story-telling require a limited number of villains? Jason's edit seems to be more about a wide-eyed kid who taking it all in and having fun... Ozzy and Amanda: The Morning after “Ozzy and Amanda stole kisses in the night when they thought their tribemates were fast asleep. Now watch as the lovebirds try to deflect the subtle accusations the next morning.” Favorites, Day 5: we see James up early, chopping coconuts. (CUT) the girls are awoken, it seems by the sound of James chopping: Eliza rises, with Parvati having just sat up behind her. (CUT) Amanda is also just getting up. (CUT) James still chopping. (CUT) Ozzy and Jonathan off to the side, Ozzy tells Jonathan that he had a hard time falling asleep last night, and a hard time getting up. Ozzy continues that he saw Jonathan tending the fire a few times during the night. Jonathan agrees, saying that it is hard to sleep 12 hours at a time. Jonathan voices over “i don't feel threatened right now, maybe that is stupid...(CUT) visual of James still working alone on the coconuts, Jonathan's voice over continues, but is also cut: “James is not sure what to make of me, (CUT - visual to James seeming to look over) he may feel threatened by me, but I am not threatened by him. Nor Ozzy. Amanda or Parvati. (CUT to each as Jonathan says their name). I don't feel threatened. (CUT – visual to James working) (cut – audio is repeat of the end of the line above) maybe that is stupid, but (CUT) <the commentary doesn't flow here to the next cut> Jonathan on screen, “myself, Yauman, Eliza and Ami <counting on fingers> are the core four” (CUT to Cirie chopping a coconut) <vioiceover> fifth is Cirie. (CUT) Parvati and Amanda walking in shallow water. Amanda says <on screen although it is easy to hear> “I feel like we need one more person.” Parvati: “i know” (CUT – visual, rear view of girls wading), Amanda voices over “the only people I (CUT – girls legs as they wade, view fades up) trust here are you, James and Ozzy, you three.” Parvati: “yeah, me too.” Amanda voices over “i trust Parv completely. I think her and I can go really far in this game, (CUT – Amanda interviews on screen) you know because we both have different strategies, and we have different personalities, but (CUT – girls wading again) together, like, I think we can do a lot.”(CUT – Ozzy alone in the boat with an ominous tone struck in the music as it shifts to a more playful vibe) Ozzy's smiles like he can her what is being said as Parvati voices over, whispering “i think Ozzy likes you.” (CUT – girls have paused in their wading and are smiling and appear to be looking at Ozzy in the boat) Amanda, “really?” Parvati, “Ozzy has a crush on you” Amanda, “I am seriously trying to not talk to him that much.” (Cut to Ozzy in the boat, girls continue in voice over) Parvati “why?” Amanda “because I don't want people to ..” (CUT back to Parvati as she suddenly gets serious), “i think you should talk to him as much as you can.” Amanda “really?” Parvati “to make sure everything is like secure. You know, feel him.” Amanda, “yeah” (camera focuses in on Amanda) Parvati voices over, “like, if anything happens, you hold the cards” Amanda voices over “i think it would be smart of me to take Parv's (CUT to closeup of Parvati) advice into consideration (CUT- girls turn away to head off) because shes right, this is still a game. (CUT – Amanda interviews on screen) and if it can get me further, than why not?” (CUT to girls wading again, music picks up energy and there is a sound like a snake's rattle) (CUT to overhead visual of boat on water, music crescendos) First, my pet theory is that Jonathan has a double secret alliance with the couples. My thinking goes like this: Parvati, Amanda, and Ozzy are all very smart players and would not have left their fifth to chance. Parvati has a previous relationship with Jonathan. The couples would rather face Jonathan before the jury than Cirie. For his part, Jonathan is smart enough to know the advantages of the two-two-one alliance and that he would not be well served by the the Ami, Eliza, Yau, and Cirie alliance. (women's alliance, anyone?) this is why Jonathon says in this clip that he is not threatened. I can not believe that he would feel this way based on what we have been shown. Also, Jonathan saying that jams doesn't know what to think of him fits into this line of reasoning. Thoughts, anyone? As to the Amanda/Parvati scene, why was it not shown? Did they simply run out of time? Tribal Council “Watch as Joel's plan comes into fruition, brutally blindsiding Mary as the tribe cast their votes. ” Ok, I think that Vote Quote analysis could be very telling…The editors typically pick two quotes to see each week and we can be certain that we given all of the material that was available for the edit. So here we have our best chance to see all of the pieces that the editors had to chose from and can therefor infer more from what selections were ultimately made. Erik votes for Mary. “I’m voting for Mary tonight simply because she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I’m trying to stay true to my loyalties.” Vibe is young and naïve. Tracy votes for Mary. “This is clearly just because it’s a numbers game, and you’re the one they said to go with. Sorry.” vibe is calculating. Joel votes for Tracy. “This vote is for Tracy because, on the way over here, I realized I needed a failsafe for my two alliances of Alexis and Natalie.” vibe is matter-of-fact. This would have been great to show because it would have really piqued the audience's interest, both for the Vote and for the next episode. There must have been strong overriding reasons to withhold such a tantalizing tidbit…corollary: alliances not revealed always succeed? Kathy votes for Mary. “Sorry, Mary. I hardly got to know you, but we’re trying to shake up your seven man alliance. Nothing personal, but…<smile> it is not me!" vibe is light-hearted. Chet votes for Mary. “Mary, you’re a great girl, but you need to go." vibe is bleh, totally lacking personality. Mary votes for Tracy. “My vote tonight is for you, Tracy. I think you’re an awesome lady, but I do see you as a threat later down the line." vibe is confident. Jason votes for Chet. “My vote goes for Chet tonight because this is not a Laundromat, it’s a game of Survivor. I hope you didn’t come halfway around the world to put up a clothesline." vibe is cocky. Alexis votes for Mary. “Girl, this absolutely breaks my heart. I just went with the majority. Sorry." vibe is heartfelt. this was shown, and it showed Alexis very positively. Mikey votes for Chet. “Chet, you blew it with your body, your brains, and your heart. That’s just not acceptable to be a teammate of mine." vibe is arrogant. this was shown. Choosing this quote also sums up how we are to view Chet. Finally, if the Favs win immunity next ep, will the viewers blame our villain Joel? Natalie votes for Mary. “This is… absolutely… nothing personal. I just have to keep myself here.” another heartfelt vibe. Ok, so that's all the possible choices. In my opinion, the editors could have chosen to show commentary from Erik, Tracy, Joel, or Natalie, but they chose Alexis, who apparently they are grooming for the end game. (Chet's was out of the question – bad TV) The main lessons overall form the Insider Clips is that Joel's edit is being manipulated, as there was plenty of material that would have shown strategy, if he was a winner (if Earl would have said these things…). Also, Amanda, Alexis, and Jason are being presented without giving away important clues as to their personalities/intentions. Alexis is being highlighted positively in her vote quote. To follow up on two things from my earlier analysis of this ep: I had thought of Joel as brilliant, but after reading other's thoughts now see that he is a Villain. (My coworker also thinks he is a villain, so that seals it.) Also, I pointed to Amanda's slip on the lily pads as indicating that she is physically weak, however this does not fit at all with Jeff's current description for her published before the show aired: "..Amanda's in great shape, she does well in the challenges,…" Jeff trumps all, of course!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-21-08, 02:58 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" i rewatched the ep last night and was struck with how the vote quotes were watered down. mikey's quote was heard in its entirety, but the visual cut away during "you blew it with your body, your brains, and your heart.", greatly reducing the arrogance vibe. even more interesting was the quote from alexis, in which "Girl, this absolutely breaks my heart." was eliminated. also, the whole scene was shown from above (perhaps because of the cutting of the beginning sentence) which eliminated the "heartflet" vibe that is in the frontal clip on Insider. this is a real trend i am seeing with alexis, the ep 1 insider clip of her and joel forming thier bond had really cute stuff with alexis responding to being told he would "snap you like a twig". it was really, really endearing to watch, but not shown in the ep. then again in the ep 2 insider clip she is cute in her conversation with natalie, where she does her little dance move and her giggling and her fake hug: not shown. then this with the vote quote. what do you guys make of this? is it typical to tone down the characters since it is early in the game? the audience would definitely have alexis as a favorite if these clips were in the show...why hold back on alexis? also, has anyone analyized the editing of the Insider videos before? if so, i would like to read those threads to get a feel for the trends... i guess i was thinking that this could be my contribution to the editing thread: Insider analysis. what thoughts do you guys (michael, VS, and FP especially) have? laura   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CTgirl 3483 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 02-21-08, 03:05 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" Welcome to the boards b1whois. I am a regular reader and occasional poster in this thread. Michel has sometimes started a separate thread on the insider videos, but no one has analyzed it before. Thanks for bringing it over. I don't have time to watch them myself, and there's good stuff sometimes. Springtime frolic by Tribe   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-21-08, 10:51 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Episode 2 Jungle Love - Insider/Vote Quote Analysis" bihwois, I love the insider interviews because it can give insight into "hidden" alliances/conflicts/strategy. I wasn't sure whether this was considered spoiler info or not so I hadn't looked at any this time. I agree some of these gems may show up in later episodes or have been left out on purpose to hide character flaws/stories that conflict with how they are editing the survivors. Congrats on getting the formatting correct! After figuring that out, I tried my best to create a sign pic - hopefully it passes muster!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Outfrontgirl 3955 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-21-08, 08:10 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Episode #2 Editing Thoughts:" LAST EDITED ON 02-21-08 AT 08:14 PM (EST) First I have to apologize for posting without reading everything because I am late to the thread and need to catch up. I am just so struck by Cirie's edit, I had to throw in my two cents. In Ep 1 we in the room kept saying, what the heck, where is Cirie, why is no one soliciting her vote, and only going to JFP, and as we all know JFP can't be relied on, so what smart players could possibly have gone to TC without talking to Cirie? It made no sense at all to me and so I felt that she was deliberately omitted by the editing. It seems to me that the purpose would be to get us focused on other players and then ease Cirie in. I noted in Episode 1 that Cirie was immediately shown in full blown strategy mode. Gone was concern about leaves or being the first vote. Instead, her one comment showed a person to me who intended to act with great strategy and deliberation and was at the moment undecided. Not "I don't have a move" but "I don't know which move to make yet." I bet she was relieved that Ep 1 vote was easy. Then in Ep 2 we are shown Cirie as APPROACHED by Jonathan who is the mover and shaker of the moment. This again could point viewers towards Jonathan as the leader, and Cirie as someone lucky to have an option. But Cirie, we are shown, is much more still weighing her options, and sure of her ability. Then we know in Ep 3 she will come front and center and even make demands, per the promo. So we are, I think, being shown a story arc for Cirie that is mostly editing, because I do not believe no one talked to her in Ep 1, and I am doubtful that she only talked to Jonathan in Ep 2 and that none of the coupled four approached her. With JFP gone, you know they approached the swing vote; neither group is stupid. But that was not shown, because Ep 3 is the place where Cirie is to blossom. I look at Cirie this season and see an Earl-like confidence and intention to act as puppetmaster. One thing Cirie has going for her is she does not need to play the "must vote off the threats to win individual immunity" strategy, because she has no intention of winning by going on an immunity run. This allows her to ally with a strong player like Aras, and if Terry had ever faltered she would have a good shot in Panama. Point being that she does not have to fear James and Ozzy, who are stronger than her but not smarter, and I look forward to watching her edit unfold. "If I'd meant that, I'd have said it." - Lewis Carroll   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

citywitch 184 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-22-08, 08:08 AM (EST) 34. "Episode #3 Editing Impression:" Just a thought - instead of players mirroring opponents on the opposite team, how about mirroring players on their own? Mikey & Joel - really the same type. Alpha males with overthought, convoluted voting strategies. James & Ozzy - serious challenge threats with seriously impaired social skills, each grabbed onto someone they pray they can trust.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-22-08, 09:35 AM (EST) 35. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Impression:" Good point Citywitch! Parallels within the tribes - too many parallels on the same tribe can make you expendable... Pavarti=Amanda (flirt/social edit) Ozzy=James (strength/lack of social edit) Eliza=Cirie=Yauman (Weak/Smart edit - Yau got eliminated) Eliza=Jonathon=Ami (Smart/outside the alliance edit - one from this group should be the next boot) Joel=Mikey (alpha male edit) Jason=Eric (naive/rude/competitive edit) Alexis=Natalie=Mary (Female strength/social edit - Mary got eliminated) Kathy=Chet=Tracy (Weak/outside the main alliance edit - one from this group could be the next boot)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-23-08, 11:44 AM (EST) 36. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" I will be back to enjoy and respond (hopefully intelligently lol) to all the commentary (nice to see you again OFG ) Recap Tracy shown to state: "I'm not gonna fight with these kids" Fans camp in disarray Alexis "Everyone's tired, everyone's hungry" Joel was vocal: "Why is everyone talking; not working" Two couples came together strategically (note that Parvarti and James were shown on "strategically") and romantically (note that Amanda and Ozzy were shown on "romantically") creating a formidable alliance. Cirie (conf) "I think we'll be receiving birth announcements.... (shots of Amanda/Ozzy and Parvarti/James shown) Jonathan/Eliza/YM/Ami made a second alliance and both sides needed Cirie to gain the majority No spin by Jeff, i.e. calling the other alliance "formidable" Cirie (conf) "I don't care, I'll get rid of anybody as long as it's not me" Fans won easily at the IC. With the fans facing TC, Mikey attempted to control the vote but after watching Mikey form a close bond with Mary, Joel had other ideas. Joel (conf) "Mary's going home; Mike will be completely confused as to what happened" At TC, Joel's plan worked and a stunned Mikey watched his closest ally go home (You may or may not recall how "plans" are reviewed and sometimes designated dependent on the storyline. Joel was the originator of this plan but others were fully on board but the commentary put the entirety of it solely on Joel. It is quite apparent this storyline is not over as they reviewed it on the "previously on...." segment and addressed it in the show when, based upon the circumstances of the show, it was not entirely necessary. It was also noted for the upcoming show. The positive spin on his plan working may bode better for Joel over Mikey however in the same token all “blame” rests solely on Joel’s shoulders and the others involved are unscathed.) Post Tribal Council Often, a tribe who was at Tribal Council gets neglected and are not shown post events which is never a good sign for anyone on that tribe as a whole and, in fact, if the tribe NOT going to TC is shown instead with a lot of dynamic, it is a big editing clue to me that the ultimate victor may reside at that tribe. With that said, showing post TC events on this tribe is a positive tool. We know, at the very least, the storyline is still pending and more dynamic will be occurring which seems fairly obvious as a showdown of sorts appears a foregone conclusion with Mikey and Joel Mikey "I understand why you did it as long as that move was not to take that whole crew; four girls and a kid and Chet is included in the girls" (Second portion of confessional shown) "You're not gonna win with them, you're not gonna" (Joel's confessional is now shown) "You made a move you didn't have to make necessarily (Joel shrugs) and if you want to make up for it, you can" (Joel's second confessional shown) Joel (conf) "I can only assume the big guy, Joel, stuck a knife in my back, already! Interesting!" (Note this confessional is the morning after (at least) and note that all his confessionals were the same location, therefore, no manipulation involved) This next portion was shown prior to the first post TC conversation "Joel is playing a long game when he should be focusing on a short game; when it gets down to the merge you get rid of the strong ones, when it is team vs. team you keep your strength and get rid of your weakness and these people Tracy, Kathy and Chet are weak around camp and challenges; they are all useless" Joel (conf) "Mikey thinks that he has all the answers, guaranteed that I won't make it to the final four and he just thinks he has this whole tribe in his pocket" (This confessional happened post TC) and "You know I'd really like to see his face when the baseball bat comes swinging... .... wakes him up to the reality he doesn't have this tribe in his pocket" With what I stated about re-visiting a tribe post Tribal Council, visiting a tribe that DIDN'T go to Tribal Council that evening is also notable as in the scheme of things, there is really no true "fall out" like we see after a Tribal Council. However, the episode visited the favorites that night; this too is an "editing plus" as the audience is still being meant to see the dynamics which are important enough that a scene was thrown in for good measure and very telling. Obviously it sets up what occurs this episode so therefore it should be shown but we learned quite a bit which not only set up the remainder of the episode but more fleshing out of future game. Eliza (conf) "Amanda, James, Ozzy and Parvarti said they were going to go down to the beach and to come with us, it'll be fun so we went down there and they were working me!" Shown prior to beach discussion and "They let me know, we need to keep this team strong and I think the two weak people are YM and Cirie and we need to get them out of here and I was like oh yeah, sure. I listened to them but I don't trust them" Ozzy "Worst case scenario.... just in terms of trying to keep our tribe as strong as possible (Amanda shown on screen while this is said) my pick of boots. I would pick YM, Jonathan and then Cirie" obviously clear that Ozzy's definition of "strong" is not necessarily the same way we define it or Cirie would be first on this list which Eliza notes; ironically Eliza, who is later their boot of choice is included in their talk Eliza "You dislike Jonathan that much?" Ozzy "It's not that I dislike him; it's just that he plays everyone" Note this voice over showed Parvarti on screen then moves to Eliza - second portion of Eliza's confessional now shown Jonathan/Eliza/Ami/YM are shown discussing the situation as Eliza advises the other group knows they are tight. Ami "Unless, Cirie do they all think you're with them?" Cirie "Um, they've been working it, they've been trying" Ami "Unless they think they have a chance with Cirie" Jonathan "If we get another vote, Parvarti's going to go right?" Eliza "For sure" Jonathan "She's weak enough and threatening enough because of her relationships with Ozzy and James" Eliza "and Amanda" Jonathan "As long as the five of us stay strong then we're cool" Second portion of Cirie's confessional shown A rather strange conversation as they were both including Cirie and not including her in the discussion; they talked of the "five" being strong together yet Cirie was laying down by herself while the four of them had discussion that almost did not include her as well Cirie (conf) "There is definitely a juggling of the two foursomes cause they need my vote, either side and I'm still trying to figure out which side is better for me" (I believe that Cirie was shown in this confessional the week before to help build up the storyline which is classic manipulation and tends to reflect that there is a lot of complexity with this tribe and Cirie) and "In this game for me it's all about who I can trust and if I feel I can trust you I'm willing to go all the way with you but if I don't trust you then you can't believe a word I tell you" Note this is another location for a confessional then the prior one - further manipulation to progress what is possibly a very important storyline. Also that these words bear noting as ultimately she put her "trust" in the couples so it stands to reason that we may want to "back burner" the conversation she had with Amanda and Parvarti on the water The Fans/The Favorites Tree mail comes with news of the catalog as Alexis reads the tree mail to the others which obviously has them very excited. The scene then moves to the favorites who are also excited about the upcoming reward challenge. Eliza (conf) "There is no way we are going to lose to them, we have the will, we've been dry, we've been eating" Joel (conf) "We lost our last challenge, moral is a little bit down but you can't fight emotionally, you have to fight logically and logically if someone comes in and invades my home, I'm gonna kill them" Both Joel and Eliza have proven to provide good narration but by no means was this anything other than good narration used for the event Jeff announces that Mary is voted out Eliza "Mary?" shot moves to Alexis smiling - shades of the China season with Amanda's smile in the same situation The challenge commences with Jeff at the end: "A huge battle has come to an end" prophetic? and those exiled are Kathy who is not too pleased and Ami who is very pleased and a "wink" by Kathy that was directed to Cirie's line of vision. Ah that dreaded wink again! The Favorites Ozzy describes "the nice girl" and Ozzy getting tangled up with her asking him "So, do you have a girlfriend?" "the nice girl?" to which Eliza advises that Mikey stated to her and Amanda that "he would like to stay like that all day" An extremely manipulated sequence of Cirie looking up and breathing deeply into the sun with a distinct change in the music as she wanders away from the group Cirie (conf) "I don't know if the others feel relaxed that they feel secure in their alliances but I don't feel relaxed at all, I feel like I have to continuously scramble and make sure everything works in my favor" (Yet another confessional spot that is different than the other two; this is then followed by more "Cirie vision") "I have to look at every option or every scenario that could possibly happen and try to have a Plan B." (next portion is yet another confessional setting) "If I was in their position, I think they could do a little more for me actually (laughs) no one is washing my clothes... I think if they want to earn my vote they should do a little more, I should be carried on that chariot type thing!" (laughter) Amanda, Parvarti and Cirie are on the water together and are observed from the shore by Eliza and Jonathan Cirie "Alright ladies I am feeling just a little bit nervous and only because the relationships that you have with James/Ozzy" (She questions Parvarti) Parvarti "It just came out of nowhere but the thing is (camera on Amanda) I've made him no promises (camera pans back to all three) and I know if I went up against him in the final three, I'll lose no matter what (all said on screen) Cirie "Well what about Ozzy?" Parvart "We'd lose against Ozzy in a second" Cirie "I know!" Amanda "I'm just putting it out there, I like flirting with Ozzy but if that makes you uncomfortable, I'll like stop" Cirie "No no, no" Parvarti "No because that is what keeps him close; he doesn't ask questions. James asks me no questions" camera falls to Cirie Eliza "Are you nervous about her?" Jonathan "No. I'm not" Eliza "She's like me a little, she gets paranoid; she needs to be reassured a lot" Jonathan "Let's reassure her" Eliza "But they are out there filling her head with lies" Amanda "Who are you voting for?" (camera on Parvarti) Cirie "I want to vote Yau cause if Yau gets to EI one time..." Parvarti "Oh yeah. Going up against Yau..." Cirie "You'll never win" Cirie "So I have both of your guys' (Amanda on screen) word that it is us three to the end?" Both announce yes Cirie "I don't care if James proposes to you or you and Ozzy have little Ozlets.." Parvarti "Oh you know how I am" Cirie "Alright" Jonathan "So, we'll talk to her; they are filling her head with stuff (YM approaches) she's the swing vote I guess and why would she swing over to them unless she thinks she can be the Queen Bee over there" Eliza "But she's not; she won't be" Jonathan "Exactly" Eliza "I hope she doesn't fall for that garbage" Obviously pivotal scenes that are reflective of what is to come by episode end. However, the water scene with the three women are producing yet another future storyline. Of note, the women give their "word" to each other to the end, (whether that bears fruit is another story as we know that normally it does not end up that way in total) Parvarti advising Amanda on how to handle Ozzy and how SHE handles James, (make no mistake now, Parvarti's advisement from the first episode is starting to bearfruit. Regardless that the editors throw us scenes of her flirting and cuddling and giggling with James, we now have evidence that she is making good on her first episode advisement that she has no problem booting off the guy she is enjoying her time with although with Amanda that doesn’t necessarily seem to be the case as even though she said she would stop flirting with Ozzy, we later see her snuggling with him at night not too mention that Amanda is never heard to be a “threat”) and now we see that Cirie is putting her trust into this "deal" and those she made the deal with which goes back to her earlier confessional to which we have to, at this time, believe she can trust them. I say this as there was no other evidence (visually, musically or other) to suggest Cirie is making a fool of herself which we have seen in the past. People making ludicrous deals usually merit a tone and I did not feel that here Exile Island Of note, compare the last episode to this episode and we can see that it suggests that Cirie's "character" is much more developed than Ami's "character. Last week Cirie received practically all the commentary (except Kathy's confessional which was all about Cirie and recall "she's learned a lot") and this week Ami was neglected completely while Kathy received the air time. Ami's edit has not been very promising to begin with and unfortunately this scene did not help Ami's longevity either Kathy (conf) "I'm here on EI again and right away Ami wanted to go to the other island after being at that island many times with Cirie...." This is accompanied by light music and visuals of Kathy extremely disinterested "Ami saw the clue up in the tree and she could not figure it out which I had to play dumb...I was exhausted I was not about to go island hopping" "The waves started to get choppy and I was like uh oh, I'm no weatherman....so pretty much clue searching had come to an end" (No manipulation involved in this segment, Kathy was shown three times in the same confessional and her words solely had to do with the events that were occurring but again, not one confessional from Ami about the clue, the weather or even Kathy - which is not necessarily good for Kathy either. Why not hear why Kathy has been chosen again?) The Fans and The Favorites The storm is heavy as we see visuals of the fans suffering in the weather. Alexis describes how her tribe feels collectively. By contrast, the favorites are comfortable and warm with Ozzy noting they are in a good place and he feels bad for the other tribe as "they are not probably doing well right now" Of note another visual of Amanda cuddling with Ozzy shown Jason is then shown miserable and cold acknowledging that the "other tribe is probably laughing at us right now" The morning after is continued at the fans tribe with a notable change in music that is meant to elicit the audience to feel sympathetic as the camera goes to Joel sitting in the boat looking dejected. Joel (conf) "...worst night since we've been here; it rained all night and the shelter didn't do one bit of good" (the tribe slowly comes out from their shelter) "...we feel like we got beat up twice yesterday..." (Joel glances at his worn hands, Natalie comes out advising "glorious evening" and Alexis being consoled by Chet and others as she advises she didn't sleep, her hands also are shown close up and shaking and asks Joel how he slept) Alexis (conf) "...I think that people are pretty demoralized right now... (Natalie, Erik shown) we can not lose today" (end shot of Chet hugging Alexis again) Alexis and Joel are again chosen to give narration with Jason receiving his "due" the night before. (though his lack of discussion at his first Tribal Council does give me some pause along with his words from the first episode) Obviously the events were needed to be shown as it gives that "push" to show that despite their mindset they went on to win the challenge. What one needs to question is why Joel and Alexis are chosen to give their point of view not to mention the premeditated focus on both of their hands and the condition of them. Surely EVERYONE’S hands or bodies took a beating – THAT is manipulation. Many on this tribe could be developed further (especially those who desperately need it but only certain ones (mainly Joel and Alexis) have received that "editing care" The Challenge A warm greeting to the two Exiled players (Jonathan waves happily and first to hug Ami, Kathy shown receiving a hug from Alexis as both groups fall in to hug them) Erik, Tracy, Natalie and Joel are up against James, Jonathan, Parvarti and Cirie Jonathan provides his own show during the challenge advising Amanda "That wasn't correct Amanda" (with Cirie laughing) and to Alexis an impressive look after he second basket "Did good little one!" and Chet "Chet! Good Lord, Chet!" Joel is shown as Jonathan starts ribbing people with a very formidable look on his face as Jeff notes that "Jonathan is talking a lot of trash" followed by his noting of Jason "Nice shot there squirrely boy" Jeff asks James how it is going to which James replies "Chilling" as Parvarti responds "Always" The fans win which provided nice closure to the suffering they had been enduring. Prelude to Tribal Council Ami (conf) "We lost immunity today which sucks; it was hard enough coming back from EI after the night I had but then coming back, losing a challenge and going to Tribal Council, does it get worse on Survivor?" Although it was nice to see Ami shown, this brief confessional does not really "do" much for her edit; it truly only helped the viewers respond and say "Yes Ami it DOES get worse" YM "So we're good on Parvarti?" Jonathan "She's sleeping with James and we can't have it, we just can't..." "We're cool right?" YM "We're cool" Jonathan "We should just stick with the plan" (YM echos this) James and Amanda are then shown in the water with Ozzy walking by them on a log on the water Amanda "James can you see who is going to TC tonight" James "Not really" Amanda "YM" James "YM?" Parvarti is then shown in the scene with them stretching Amanda "Cirie wants YM gone" James walks away not very convinced of this Parvarti "YM's smart; he's gonna go to EI before the next IC, there is a strong possibility of that" James "Yeah but still" Parvarti "They want to vote me out" James "Yeah they are after your a– baby. You know I can't let you go home" This second sentence was stated on screen A butterfly and a spider is shown followed by Cirie, Ozzy, Parvarti, Amanda Cirie "I thought we were solid with YM? We can get rid of Eliza any day!" Ozzy "If we keep YM, the chances of having a good run at an IC are better. Eliza is not good at challenges" Cirie "I swear we'll vote Eliza next, anybody you want but I cannot stay here with him finding that idol and not being able to go. I thought we were all clear on that" Eliza comes walking up the group Ozzy "If you guys really feel that way..." Cirie "I do" Ami then shown approaching with Jonathan just behind A female voice is heard to say "Which one?" Ozzy "YM.." Cirie "or Jonathan..." Eliza is shown very near the group while Ami and Jonathan are still out of the shot Jonathan "What's going on man" Ozzy "Nothing" (he begins to walk away) Jonathan "Didn't mean to break up the party" Amanda "Oh you didn't" (Amanda starts to walk away) In a voice over as Jonathan approaches Ami, Cirie, Eliza and Parvarti, Parvarti is heard saying "We're going to go do some girl stuff" as she and Eliza walk away. This is somewhat interesting as why would Eliza follow this group when she clearly was someone that was discussed as a potential boot. This also goes back further to the very beginning of the episode showing her "mingling" with this foursome. Truly that first scene at the beach need not be shown unless there was some relevance. The focus has been on Cirie, NOT getting Eliza into their fold yet we were shown this night time beach scene. With Eliza later on being shown voting for YM, we may have even further dynamic involving Eliza and this group and even Eliza with Cirie as I am a bit suspicious over the passion Cirie felt over getting rid of YM Note that an editing trick of sorts occurred right at this entire scene. As Jonathan approaches and Amanda walks away, one can see Ami, Eliza and Parvarti and the camera cuts off where Cirie was then instantly Cirie is no longer in the scene as the next shot reflects Ami and Jonathan walking together. Cirie either scurried away in the opposite direction very quickly or these scenes were sliced/diced. Interestingly enough, AFTER we are shown the following scene of Jonathan and Ami... Cirie, Jonathan, Ami (with YM in background approaching) are shown in that spot talking. Jonathan "Me or YM? So who's she voting for?" Ami "I don't know" Jonathan "Just tell me is it me or Yau?" Ami "I don't know; they're trying to decide.." Jonathan (conf) "I'm feeling a little bit antsy because I'd like to believe Cirie is tight with us but obviously Amanda and Parvarti have been pouring a lot of BS in her ear and you have to hope Cirie is smart enough, loyal enough, happy enough to stick with her group!" (YM shown with Jonathan at this point) Jonathan "It's gonna be the five of us to vote off Parvarti because she's got these two guys wrapped around her finger; it's that simple. I don't know what they said to you but our trustworthiness, our desire to vote you out, I don't know what they said, it's not true....we are a solid five, the plan is a good one...." YM "Those two pairs together... there's no way you can work yourself in it" Cirie "But you know what Yau, the same argument you're using, they used the same argument!" Jonathan "I'm not going to use any argument, I'm going to use common sense" (Cirie: mmhmm) "Honestly, the five of us should march forward together; there is no reason not to, I have no hidden agenda, no interest in voting any of the four of you out" Cirie "I know that you and Yau have your own little thing and if you want to stand here and say that ya'll don't..." YM "But that's just the two of us" (Talking over each other ensues) Jonathan "Let's keep it real. I think that you and I have a little thing" (Ami at this time walks away from the group) Jonathan "I think Ami and I have a little thing..." Cirie "But you and Yau..." Jonathan "It's ridiculous..." Cirie "Call it what you want but when you act like that, it's not gonna get you my vote" Jonathan "Wait a second. We have a long way to go" Cirie "I know!" (Ami shown watching) "I played just you played; I played too! How far did you go?" Jonathan "I don't know, maybe not as far as you" Cirie "I've seen everybody, I may play like I am laughing and joking but I've been watching everybody and I know there's no way you were voting him out over me" Again another editing anomaly as while Cirie is talking, the scene opens up and suddenly Eliza, Ozzy and Amanda are now in the scene and Ami is suddenly gone Jonathan "I thought we were solid and they suddenly come up and say something to you that has put doubt into your mind but I have not done anything to put that doubt into you" Cirie "I'm just, ummm" Jonathan "You want to keep it real, I'm trying to keep it real" Cirie "I have... this is why we are having this conversation" Cirie "I'm going to go change... and have five minutes without all this stuff" As stated these scenes were heavily manipulated and yet another wonderful manipulation technique in that the music becomes extremely melancholy and sad when it could have been churning with anger; we are not necessarily meant to take any sides here (obviously viewers have their likes/dislikes but the editing is not entirely being clear in forming a concrete “villain”) The editing is more or less attempting to show what a sad situation this ultimately turned out to be and it should not have ended up this way. I would state it skewed a bit in Cirie’s favor as the music was surrounding her as she appeared weary of everything though. (Eliza does show up at the end looking forlorn) Jonathan/Ozzy now shown together with Jonathan and Ozzy agreeing that YM should not be voted out that night. In this instance, the music does get more upbeat. Jonathan "Let’s take YM out tonight if that is what its gotta be but Parvarti..” Ozzy “I don’t think that’s a good choice” Jonathan “I don’t think so either so who’s it gonna be??” Ozzy "I think Eliza is the obvious choice. You guys are going to vote for Parvarti, it's going to be throwing votes away and it will be YM because we'll have numbers" Jonathan "I hear what your saying because of your relationship with her but I'm talking about the fact that she's got you in her corner and it's dangerous. Eliza's not a threat! You are right, she is the weakest link; she's also the least threatening link, you know what I mean? That’s just the way I’ve been thinking but I could rethink it I guess" Ozzy, James, Parvarti, Amanda and Ami are now shown and of note that Ami is with this group and of note, a musical rattlesnake sound starts it off Parvarti "Cirie is not gonna change her mind; we have to vote with her" Ozzy "I'm not, I'm voting for Eliza. I have to, I think that's the right thing to do" Parvarti "But Cirie is not budging on YM, she's voting out YM. If we don't vote…. Ozzy “We don’t need Cirie!” Pavarti “…with her, she’s not gonna trust us" Ozzy "Who's she gonna trust? Someone other than the five of us?” (Ahh, yet another complexity in this tribe. With Ami there and the camera immediately panning to her, obviously she is the 5 in that five. And what of Eliza who voted for YM and we saw on the beach with them at the beginning of the episode. Many levels are beginning to be exposed to us that may be part of a much bigger story within this tribe) Parvarti “I just don’t think it is a good idea for us to vote different people. I just think we all need to vote the same person” (At this time Jonathan is shown approaching) Amanda “I don’t like how she is making this decision like what’s up with that?” Ozzy “That’s right” Parvarti “I know” Amanda “The next time, will it all be her decision too?” Parvarti “No” Amanda “Do you see what I am saying though? Like I didn’t like that” (At this time, Ami walks away to join Jonathan and they are gone from the scene) Parvarti “Let’s talk to her right now” (Cirie is beckoned over and appears to be weary with her “what?”) Parvarti “All five of us need to talk” Ozzy “The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to vote Eliza, please?” Cirie “Why is it so hard…?” (Both Ozzy and James talk over each other to her) Parvarti “We all need to be on the same page” Cirie “I don’t want to change my vote; my vote has never changed, y’alls vote has changed” James (conf) “Cirie is killing me; you can’t be the boss of everything… she went from the swing vote to who’s deciding what is going on for the whole group; that can’t happen. I feel like I’m in China again with a bunch of dumba--es” Of note in this formidable alliance is that Ozzy and Parvarti are more visible about everything whereas James and Amanda are extensions of their edit. With that stated there has been no indication yet that Ozzy (or James) have no issue with getting rid of Amanda or Parvarti yet that has been brought up with the three women. This could be a very interesting storyline that is currently pending – the question is will the women make good on the statement that was made and until/unless we hear from Ozzy or James that they are contemplating something more than just their foursome, Ozzy and James’ story line may only be part and parcel with the three women (or some fashion of the three women) Jonathan, Eliza and Ami are now talking with Parvarti shown in the background speaking with YM Jonathan “I bet we could still get Parvati out with the four because they are split between you and YM so folks want to vote for Yau and folks want to vote for you. Four votes for her may be enough” Eliza “They’re not going to go into Tribal split, that’s the dumbest thing ever, that’s stupid" Ami “They’re kinda talking like they might” Jonathan (conf) “Craziness before the vote while the four of us, the remaining four of the five, not Cirie, gonna stay tight and vote Parvarti” Parvarti and Amanda then shown walking and laughing as Parvarti imitates the shenanigans occurring at camp “Right now the other group including Cirie are split, some of them want to vote Eliza (Of note Cirie and Eliza are shown together with Cirie doing Eliza’s hair) as the weakest link and some want to vote out YM as either the weakest link or the biggest threat; I’m not sure why they would want to vote YM out. If we can keep them split, if we can keep them from coming to a consensus, our four votes would actually be enough to get Parvarti out. Our four votes may actually win the day, that’s what I’m hoping, fingers crossed” You certainly could not get any better narration of the events than that! That being said, this was entirely narrative with no manipulation to his confessional however this entire episode was extremely manipulated for the favorites. We have only begun to scratch the surface of the tribe dynamics and this does suggest that the long term story heavily involves quite of few of these people. Unfortunately for Jonathan he seems to be almost in the same place as his prior season. It stills suggests longevity but there has been no indication that his past mistakes may not catch up to him again. Tribal Council Jeff asks Jonathan how disappointing it is to be back Jonathan “Terrible. After that big victory yesterday (YM) it felt so great and earned (Eliza) today was a tough day after that loss. Jeff asks James if the fans earn a bit of respect from them James “Yeah they definitely earned some respect (Ozzy nods) and I guess it made us kinda soft (Jonathan not entirely agreeing) and we need to get a win and make sure that the favorites are on top at the end (Cirie is shown during James’ statement of favorites are on top at the end) they’re winning right now and I don’t like it” Jeff asks YM if they have isolated a problem as to why they are losing YM “We need to be really really hungry to win (James) whenever we won anything we were very happy for a day (Ami) and then once we lost (Cirie) to me the more critical ones I feel more vulnerable every time we lose” Jeff mentions to Jonathan there are two ideas that we are going to stay together or I want to win this game one way or another Jonathan “I think some of us (shot is branched out to show Jonathan, Ami and Parvarti) like to stay together (Eliza with smile) and make this tribe as strong as possible (YM) and I think some of us are making moves already (Cirie) to eliminate people they consider threats to them and take control of the game (shot moves back to Jonathan, Ami and Pavarti) Jeff asks Cirie her position on this Cirie “For me Jeff (Jonathan) I’m looking at it as far as the tribe and myself in this game and if (YM) I’m not playing the game that’s gonna benefit you the most (Jonathan not convinced) it doesn’t mean that I’m not doing what’s best for the tribe” Jeff calls Jonathan on his reaction Jonathan “She’s made a move today that will advance her in the game and put her in a power position (Cirie) and I don’t think anybody believes voting out the person she wants to vote out is gonna make the tribe stronger” (YM) Cirie “For me Jeff had I made the move that he wanted me to make we wouldn’t even be having this conversation” Jonathan “I thought you were in an alliance and you flopped and brought everybody in and, you did” Cirie “Is this not the pot calling the kettle black” (Parvarti smiles) “Whatever!” Jonathan “I don’t know, I thought I was in an alliance with you until today I was” (YM) Cirie “Jonathan, I came into your alliance as the fifth person (shot of Cirie talking to Jonathan with YM and Parvarti listening) and I’m supposed to trust you?” Jonathan “Were you in the alliance? Did you say you were in the alliance and working with us and that we were solid and all that? You did!” Cirie “I did, I did but I don’t trust you point blank period” (A distinctive bell and Eliza’s open wide eyes are shown at those words followed by another bell) Jonathan “You’ve asked everyone else (Ozzy) to help you vote off the person that is a threat…” Cirie “I didn’t ask anybody anything!” Jonathan “Please” Cirie “We all came to a decision to vote who we are” (James with head down) Jonathan “Cause you said you weren’t going to vote for anybody else…” (James again with head down) Cirie “You told me the best thing for this tribe was to get rid of Parvarti” (Parvarti with a look) Jonathan “I still believe that” Cirie “And because (Parvarti) I didn’t do that this is why we are having this conversation” (James) Jonathan “I’m trying to make moves to make this tribe stronger” (Amanda) Cirie “I’m not doing what you wanted me to do, I don’t trust you as far as I can pick you up and throw you” Jeff provides a smile of enjoyment “Sorry” Cirie “If you’re upset (Eliza with the wide eye look again) with me, too bad” Jonathan “I’m not upset. I’m upset that you are now going to be in the driver’s seat and…” Cirie “Because I’m not voting the way you want me to vote!” (Parvarti) Jonathan “Anyone can vote any way they want” Cirie “They should!” (Ozzy with incredulous smile) “I don’t have mind control over anybody here” (James shaking head and looking down) “So ya’ll vote how you want to vote” Jonathan “I would urge everybody to vote their conscious (Parvarti with a derisive look) then we have some common ground that we can work from otherwise it’s gonna be, I think, a much bigger split and kinda disasterous…” Cirie “Everybody here knows it was split” Jonathan “Right” Jeff asks Parvarti about the look on her face during all of this Parvarti "Yeah I mean people are concerned that maybe I’m just flirting or manipulating (James with head down) people to make alliances and get (Eliza with a sour look) people on my side so yeah I know my name has been brought up (Ami) and that scares me but that doesn’t surprise me at all” Jeff makes a point of saying that no matter how it goes down this seems like it “will be a big vote for this tribe” Foreshadowing? Voting is shown as follows: Jonathan “I have nothing against you Parvart but I think that by following Cirie you signed your own death warrant (Parvarti shown) she’s led you like a sheep to the slaughter and played you like a fiddle, I’m sorry for you” Perhaps a prophecy? Cirie “You aligned with the biggest liar (Jonathan) in the game; strategically I feel like this was the best move for me. I’m sorry” An interesting note of Ami shown laying her head on Amanda’s shoulder (thus furthering this alliance that Ozzy has mentioned?) YM is then voted out. Jeff “The problem with this tribe is no secret, you’re divided. The question is what are you going to do about it” Of note, no responses by Ami or Amanda. Eliza did not have any either but did receive quite a few facial reactions whereas Ami and Amanda were neglected. At this point the storyline is centering around quite a few dynamics but Ami is hardly involved other than a person in an alliance (or possibly two) but we get no insight from her. Eliza and Jonathan provide a lot of insight but as narrators it is hard to discern if that indicates longevity although since both appear to be targeted (for different reasons) storyline does involve them. Cirie is drenched in storyline and had large amounts of manipulation. Parvarti and Ozzy appear to have more depth to their edit than their counterparts of James and Amanda. I would say whichever pair fares better depends entirely on Ozzy and Parvarti since most strategy and discussion centers on them; we can’t also omit that Amanda and Parvarti are also a pair in this with Cirie as a deal was struck with them that omitted James and Ozzy (we have not seen this occur with James and Ozzy though) However, James has not provided any fleshing out so I do not believe his chances are positive. Amanda has not received any fleshing out either except with her feelings regarding Ozzy. Ami has not received any dimension as well. With the fans, the choices seem even more limited. Alexis and Joel appear to have the most manipulation and face time. Chet had an opportunity to be very fleshed out in the prior episode and was not given the chance. Tracy was given good narration status but it directly involved her; there really was nothing that took her dynamic to an end game status. Natalie has been severely under utilized as is Erik (only their relationships with Joel and Alexis seem to help them) and while Jason has been given some good moments, I am hesitant with his first episode confessional and lack of question at his first TC. Kathy is wonderful material to use for television but her first EI stay with Cirie was more about Cirie and being there twice should have given us more fruit and there wasn’t. Kathy narrated about not going to all the trouble again with Ami; why no insight on why she was selected twice and her dejection over this? Recall others who have been to EI more than once who had longevity and there is a difference It will be interesting to focus on the big theme presented by Alexis in the first episode since the favorites' weaknesses may be coming into play and whether they will continue to be (and will be by others) exploited.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-23-08, 04:51 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Veruca: Thrilled to see your post already and as always it doesn’t disappoint! It’s so much easier to respond to your post as you are just so thorough. As noted the action began with Mikey telling us that he was well aware of the big guy, Joel, stabbing him in the back, ALREADY!. Then we see his interaction with Joel post TC, and him scrambling, and then Joel’s reaction…Mikey thinks he has all the answers and this tribe in his back pocket…not!. Clearly, this will be a significant part of the story at Airai, Alpha vs. Alpha, and how will the chips fall? Once again I am reminded of the John Nash Theory….when there are more than one alphas/leaders in the group, it’s good to be a follower! Then, as VS noted the action went to Malakal with Eliza, the narrator, telling us that she was invited to the beach with the young ones….and they were working her. Then I found it interesting that we did not have a confessional from one of the 4 younger ones, but we were privy to Ozzy doing all of the “working”, and even telling Eliza his preference of boot choices…Yau-man, Jonathan, then Cirie. I found this very very interesting indeed. Ozzy was the spokesperson for the group? Ozzy notes, it’s not that he doesn’t like Jonathan, it’s that he plays everybody… Ozzy’s rationale is heard, that he bases this sequence on tribe strength…Eliza finishes up with saying she doesn’t trust them….then cut to the other 4 in the cave with Cirie in the background…questioning Cirie if the others think she is with them….she responds that they are working it… Clearly this episode is all about Cirie and her choices at Malakal. I found it interesting that in the first episode Cirie noted that she just had no plan whatsoever, and that she would indeed go with the philosophy of writing anyone’s name down as long as it were not her own, or as I like to call it, the Sandra Strategy. Well, clearly this episode contradicts her very first appearances in episode one. She demanded that the younger couples write down Yau-man’s name, it was going to be her way, period. This is not the Sandra Strategy. So, what’s up with that? Are we to assume that she’s a serious strategist now? Was this a test of the others and their loyalties? I didn’t get this editing of Cirie…. To me, her confessional about deciding which 4 was better for her could have been from last ep, but certainly was appropriate here, as this was the episode that she was forced to reveal her hand. At first when I saw her in the bamboo boat making an F3 pact with Amanda and Parv, I was angry. It seemed that Cirie was the power girl here as she initiated the discussion, yet in retrospect, I am thinking that Amanda and Parvati played her like a fiddle…..they needed her for her vote this week, now they can use her to get what they want till they do not need her anymore…I can not help but think of the old adage, alliances revealed do not succeed… Jonathan was true to himself and practically brow beat Cirie…this is why I do not see Jonathan as a long term player. Clearly, he lets his emotions out with gusto. Interesting to note that he may have approached Ozzy later, and we were privy to Joanathan and Ozzy discussing options. Seems they were not able to come to any kind of mutual agreement which I think doesn’t bode well for Jonathan. Then we see the tree mail at Airai, and again we hear from Joel, who as VS points out is turning out to be a narrator… Eliza speaks for Malakal…the narrator for that tribe. Then the Challenge, that the Favs win, once again. Cute tribe reactions at camp, and then the scene with Cirie , Amanda, and Parv. Clearly, Cirie is playing this game hard, and we are privy to it. Will it serve her well, or will it be for naught. Clearly, she’s a “player”. The thing I liked about this scene is that they indeed made an F3 pact. For the girls, Cirie has presented them with another option, a “plan B”. To me, Parv and Amanda came out the best in this scenario. Later we keep hearing Ozzy’s rationale to vote out the weak, keep the tribe strong and him declaring that he was still going to write Eliza’s name down. Probably this was shown to create drama, will he or won’t he, when in the end he indeed wrote Yau’s name down. I know most folks don’t necessarily think he is smart, but I disagree wholeheartedly. So far it looks as though he’s distracted, and can be manipulated. But I think there is quite a lot more to Ozzy. Remember, the editing shows us what they want us to think…granted, it seems as if Parv and Amanda are getting their way on all fronts, boding well for them… Regarding all of the manipulation of scenes, to me it just seemed as the favorites, who have played this game before, they all knew not to let people have privacy to talk. It seemed as though everytime a group was having a conversation, it was interrupted by the others….Veruca, you are truly remarkable as I missed the statement by Ozzy inferring that they didn’t need Cirie, that they had 5, with Ami there. I did, however, note Ami’s head on Amanda’s shoulder at TC with all of the drama between Cirie and Jonathan. I also noted Eliza’s vote, however, my first thought was that she knew the couples votes would be split between her and Yau, so she wanted to vote Yau to ensure her longevity. I loved your assessment of the show though, and I am amazed by it. Clearly, there is a lot more going on here than just the couples vs. the others. Very very interesting indeed. I also feel that there is more to Parvati and Ozzy than their counterparts, Amanda and James. Everytime there is discussion it seems as if Parv and Oz are the ones in the middle. A great episode. Can’t wait for next week when it appears it will be Joel vs. Mikey and Cirie vs. Jonathan, and what will happen on EI?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-23-08, 07:49 PM (EST) 38. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-24-08 AT 01:00 PM (EST) I see I'm late to the party! Now, I have to apologize for repeating anything already mentioned as I wrote my post before reading anything else so as not to be influenced. I hope I have something of value to add: Of note in the recap, Jeff commented on how the couples came together “strategically…and formed a formidable alliance.” The Opening Scene: Airai’s return from Tribal Council: Mikey’s confessional: “I can only assume the big guy, Joel, stuck a knife in my back ALREADY…Interesting.” We saw the two of them calmly discussing the vote with Mikey looking at the team that Joel had assembled, calling Erik a kid and Chet a girl. Mikey’s confessional continued: “Joel is playing a long game right now and he should be focusing on a short game. When it gets down to the merge, you get rid of the strong ones but when it’s team on team you keep your strength and you get rid of your weakness. The people, Tracy, Kathy and Chet are weak around camp and they are weak in the challenges. They’re all useless.” Mikey told Joel he wasn’t going to win the million by making unnecessary moves like that. Joel had a confessional of his own: “Mikey thinks he has all the answers and he guarantees that I’ll never make it to the final 4...he doesn’t have this tribe in his pocket.” Second Scene: Malakal’s Schemes: Eliza had the first confessional: “Amanda, Ozzy, James and Parvati said they were going down to the beach and they said ‘come with us, it will be fun’. So I went down there with them and they were working me” We heard Ozzy telling her his choice for boot order: “I would pick Yau Man, Jonathan and then Cirie”. Ozzy said Jonathan “plays everyone.” Eliza went on: “They were like ‘we have to keep this team strong and with the two weakest people, Yau Man and Cirie, we have to get them out of here.’ I said ‘Oh! Sure, yeah. I listened to them but I don’t trust them.” Eliza reported back to Jonathan, Ami Yau Man and Cirie, telling them she was being worked on. Cirie had the next confessional: “There’s definitely a little bit of juggling, the two foursomes, because they need my vote and I’m still trying to figure out which side is better for me.” Jonathan was sure Parvati would be voted out and that they’d be alright if the 5 stuck together. Cirie went on: “In this game for me, it’s all about who I think I can trust. If I feel that I can trust you, then I’m willing to go all the way with you, but if I don’t trust you, then you can’t believe a word I tell you…Ah! Ah! Ah!” The Challenge We went to Airai and, reading tree mail, Alexis was excited by the prospect of a wrestling challenge while Natalie and Mikey were interested in the catalog. Malakal was shown deciding on items with Eliza telling us: “There’s no way we’re gonna lose today. We’re going to decimate them. We have the will, we’ve been dry, we’ve been eating.” Joel was a little more direct: “We lost our last challenge and we’re all a little bit down. You can’t fight emotionally, you have to fight logically and, logically, if somebody comes and invades my home, I’m gonna kill ‘em.” Proving that Mary wasn’t an important player, we saw Eliza’s frown at Jeff’s announcement of her elimination. Eliza seemeed to ask: “Was there a Mary playing this season?” The Challenge had some interesting quotes from Jeff: - “Joel takes Amanda down hard…Joel and James going at it…Joel steals one from the fans…Joel pulls Amanda down hard.” (Do Amanda and Joel get at it during a vote?) - “James pulls Kathy off Cirie”. - “Yau Man on a break away”. (What could have been!) - “Jason hands it off to Alexis. OH! A huge collision with Penner…Penner pulling Alexis back. That was the biggest collision so far.” (foreshadowing of another collision after merge perhaps?) - “James comes in and busts up the whole pile.” - “Erik is pulling Eliza into the end zone…Amanda going after Erik who tosses Amanda over his head. That irritates James.” This one could be of note because of its manipulation, when Amanda was tossed, she was in the Fans’ end zone with Parvati shown close by. The irritated James was in his own end zone with Parvati shown to be next to him instead. - “Alexis steals one from the favorites. Alexis knocks Eliza down.” (Alexis could do damage after the merge…) - “James’ trying to steal that bag, he’s pulling 3 people in the water. James’ got one.” (…But James would take care of her) - “Amanda stealing one for the Favorites.” - “Penner fighting for it. Penner’s got it. This will do it! Favorites win the challenge. A huge battle comes to an end.” (Will it end in Penner’s favor again?) There wasn’t a single mention of Ozzy, Parvati, Ami, Chet, Natalie and Tracy. 4 of them haven’t been seen as long term players at all, while Ozzy and Parvati have had good indicators. Could it indicate that, while the players get rid of their rivals and the non-players, Ozzy and Parvati get by, unnoticed? Well one thing that makes me think so is that, when Jeff told them to ‘come get your stuff’ Parvati and Jonathan were featured and then Ozzy had the last image, picking up their tribal flag. The F3 after this huge battle in Micronesia? Scene III: The Victors: Malakal was in a joyful mood with Ozzy and Eliza recounting their talks with fans. We are shown that Cirie uses the time to plan ahead by the insertion of her confessional, right here. Note how her confessional was introduced with the crowd noises fading out, the flutes tuning them out and Cirie deep in thoughts. Burnett was tapping on our shoulder, whispering: “This is a pivotal moment.” Cirie: “I don't know if the other people feel relaxed because they feel secure in their alliances but I don't feel relaxed at all. I feel like I have to continuously scramble and make sure everything works in my favor… Because I am in the middle right now, I have to look at every option or every scenario that could possibly happen and try to have a Plan B… If I was in their position, I think they could do a little more for me actually. No one is washing my clothes, I haven’t gotten any special meals. I think if they wanted my vote they should do a little more, I should be carried on that chariot type thing! Ah! Ah!” It led to the PACT, the Parvati-Amanda-Cirie Triumvirat: Cirie "Alright ladies, I am feeling just a little bit nervous and it’s only because the relationships that you two have with James and Ozzy" Amanda "I like flirting with Ozzy so if that makes you uncomfortable, I'll like stop" Cirie "No no, no" Parvarti "No because that is what keeps him close; he doesn't ask questions. James asks me no questions.” Amanda: “Who are you voting for?" Cirie: “I want to vote out Yau...So I have both of you guys’ word that it’s us three to the end? Both say Yeah. Cirie:“I don’t care if James proposes to you or you and Ozzy have little Ozzlets…” Looking on, Jonathan told Eliza he wasn’t worried. Eliza was hoping Cirie wouldn’t fall for their garbage. Yau Man stood in the back ground, as if unaware. Exile Island: The narration, was entirely done by Kathleen and it was short: “I'm here again. Right away Ami wanted to go to the other island. After having been to that island many times with Cirie I’m like Ahhhh! because Cirie and I found all 4 clues. Ami saw the clue up in the tree and she could not figure it out but I had to play dumb. I’m like ‘I don’t know.’ I’m just exhausted I wasn’t about to go island hopping. The waves started to get choppy and I said to Ami ‘I'm no weatherman but it looked like a big storm was coming in.’So pretty much clue searching had come to an end.” Night 7: “It only Rains on Airai”: It was miserable and Alexis had a confessional type talk even if she was with others in the shelter: “It’s pouring down rain and our shelter sucks. Everyone’s cold, everyone’s soaking wet. There’s not much you can do.” Jason wasn’t faring better, alone in “his habitat”: “I’m sure the other tribe is doing really well, staying dry and probably laughing at us having to endure this wicked storm. I just hope no spiders get me…or scorpions or rats.” In contrast, we had Ozzy in Malakal: “We came into the cave and we settled down. The rain is falling really hard, harder than it ever has since we’ve been here. I felt bad for the whole Airai tribe. I know they’re probably not doing well right now.” The morning of Day 8 wasn’t much better for the Fans: Joel told us about it: “Last night was probably the worst night we’ve had since we’ve been here. It rained all night and the shelter didn’t do one single bit of good. This morning, we feel like we got beat up twice yesterday, once by the other tribe and once by nature.” We saw how the players were affected as we witnessed the shivering Alexis who hadn’t slept at all. Alexis had a confessional: “Not the sort of night you want to have before a challenge and this one’s for immunity. I think people are very demoralized right now. We cannot lose today.” The Immunity Challenge: Besides Jeff saying “Penner’s talking a lot of trash, just what we expect. Reminds me of the Cook Islands” and Joel shown deadly serious, there wasn’t much to tell about this challenge except that Tracy, Natalie and Erik have more strength than suspected. Cirie Versus Jonathan; the First Rounds. At camp, we had Ami telling us: “Today we lost the immunity challenge which sucks. It was hard enough coming back from Exile Island and the night that I had but then coming back, losing a challenge and going to tribal council tonight, I mean; does it get worse on Survivor?” Jonathan and Yau Man were in agreement on voting out Parvati. Amanda told James that Cirie wanted Yau out and that they needed Cirie. James and Ozzy weren’t too pleased. Ozzy talked to Cirie who said: “I thought we were solid with Yau Man. We could get rid of Eliza any day.” Ozzy reasoned: “Having Yau Man, our chances of having a good run at an immunity challenge are better. Eliza is not good at challenges.” Cirie continued to argue her point as Eliza and Ami walked in. They were told about the plan against Yau but the discussion broke as Jonathan arrived. He walked off with Ami, asking her if it was Yau or him. Jonathan had a confessional: “I’m starting to get antsy about the vote, only because I’d like to believe that Cirie is tight with us but obviously Amanda and Parvati have been pouring a lot of BS into her ear and you have to hope Cirie is smart enough, loyal enough, happy enough to stick with her group.” Jonathan and Yau explained that the 2 couples were too strong. Cirie countered: “The same argument you’re using, they use the same argument so why should I believe this and not them?” Jonathan : “The 5 of us should march forward together.” Cirie answered: “I know you and Yau have your little thing. I’ve played just like you played. How far did you go? I may look like I’m joking and laughing but I’m watching everybody and I know there is no way you vote (Yau) out before me.” Ozzy and Jonathan had a discussion, both saying voting Yau wasn’t the best option but not coming together on voting out either Eliza or Parvati. Ozzy then went to his alliance who were on the shore with Ami. Parvati said they had to vote with Cirie but Ozzy was still voting for Eliza. Parvati countered that if they don’t vote with Cirie, she’ll never trust them. Ami walked off and Cirie joined in. Ozzy tried one last time but Cirie wasn’t budging. James explained in confessional: “Cirie is killing me. You can’t be the boss of everybody but everybody is letting her go. She went from the swing vote to the one who’s deciding what’s going on for the whole group. That can’t happen. It feels like I’m in China again messing with a bunch of dumbasses.” Malakal was off to Tribal Council with Jonathan saying: “Craziness, craziness before the vote. But the 4 of us, without Cirie are going to stay tight and vote for Parvati because right now, the other group, including Cirie, are split. Some want Eliza out as the weakest link, some want to vote Yau Man out as either the weakest link or the biggest threat. I’m not sure why they’d want to vote Yau Man out. If we can keep them split, if we can keep them from coming to a concensus, our 4 votes may actually be enough to vote Parvati out. Our 4 votes may win the day. That’s what I’m hoping for.” Tribal Council: Cirie versus Jonathan: The Smack-down: It started when Jonathan said: “I think some of us would like to stay together and make this tribe as strong as possible but some of us are making moves already to eliminate people that they consider threats to them and take control of the game.” Cirie countered: “I’m looking at it as far as the tribe and as far as myself in this game. If I’m not playing the game that’s gonna benefit you the most, it doesn’t mean that I’m not doing what’s best for the tribe.” Jonathan argued: “She’s made a move today that will advance her in the game and put her in a power position. I don’t think anybody believes that voting out the person that she wants to vote out is gonna make the tribe stronger.” Cirie: “Had I made the move that he wanted me to make, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.” J: “I thought we were in an alliance and you’ve flopped.” C: “Is this not the pot calling the kettle black? I came into your alliance as the 5th person and I’m supposed to trust you?” J: “Did you say you were in the alliance and working with us and said we were solid?” C: “I did but I don’t trust you…I’m not doing what you want me to do. I don’t trust you as far as I can throw you. And if you’re upset that they trust me, too bad.” We heard Jonathan vote Parvati because she made a mistake by becoming Cirie’s sheep. Cirie voted Yau Man because he aligned himself with the biggest liar. Yau Man was voted out with Jeff telling the tribe: “The problem with this tribe is no secret, you guys are divided. The big question is; what are you gonna do about it?” Analysing the Players: The Tourists: Seeing what happened to Mary and Yau Man, this isn’t a year for tourists compared to China where both Denise and Erik made the F6. The players who are still in Micronesia but are only extras to the story appear to have little chance of making it that far this season or even making the merge. Of those tourists, four are players who weren’t mentioned in the Reward Challenge: Natalie is still not defined as a character. We know nothing of her, her feelings or her plans. Chet has been credited with some scenes but those were more to set up the roles of others. How they reacted to Chet defined Joel, Jason and Mikey as potential villains and Kathleen as someone with heart but Chet himself didn’t get any opportunity to present his own character, much less his plans. No one will be surprised to see Chet being voted out. Ami played a secondary role to Kathleen when she went to Exile Island. Combined with her lack of story in the first 2 episodes, that tells us that Ami isn’t a contender. We are shown that she is still a calculating player, as shown by her inclusion in the strategy talks but she has a much softer image than in Vanuatu. It is evident that what we are shown of Ami is just so that viewers will say: “She wasn’t as bad as I thought.” It’s a question of editors having a debt to pay. But, yes Ami, it can “get worse on Survivor”. Tracy had a very disappointing episode. We heard Joel talk about how his shelter didn’t stand up, how Jason’s cave was scary more than it was protective but what about Tracy’s little lean-to? It seems she already lost the little respect she had gained last time. Her showing of episode #2 now seems only have been to introduce her to us, not to present her as a player. I don’t expect her anymore to make the merge and meet the Favorites since she has no connections to them outside the one she had with Fairplay. Kathleen is still presented as a victim, one whose only scenes were of being pushed around during the challenge, of being distraught at being exiled and of being exhausted during the quest for the idol. Besides meeting some of her favorites and getting the first immunity, we’ve only seen her smile when she made some coconut shots. Despite the huge number of targets on the Airai tribe, I don’t see her making the merge. The Villains: I doubt all three make the merge. Even afterwards, they’ll have their work cut out for them to make it much further. Erik cannot be a favorite of the Malakal players. He seems destined to make the merge so the conflicts have a chance to come to the forefront. With the scene manipulation to show James reacting when he slammed Amanda, it makes me wonder if somehow Erik doesn’t irritate our gravedigger even more later on. I think that the Favorites will enjoy his elimination, that it will give them a measure of revenge. Erik is only a kid according to Mikey. He can’t compete when the game gets really serious. Joel looked like a wounded animal when we saw him in the boat after the rainstorm. As such, we saw that he still had some fight in him when he was focused on during the Fans’ immunity win but how long can it last? There is a fight brewing with Mikey and Joel isn’t edited as the one to come out on top. Mikey’s confessional about the previous Tribal Council was presented as being calm and calculating so it should lead to Mikey winning the confrontation. Even if Joel does survive the tribal part of the game and plays a longer game than Mikey thought, we saw too many conflicts with the Favorites to see him surviving that clash. Since his pre-reward challenge confessional wasn’t necessary to show as he didn’t “kill” anyone, then, logically, if he goes to Malakal’s house after the merge, he is gonna get killed. Jason, I feel, is edited to show us how different it is to be at home saying you can play this game and actually playing it. Remember, he was so enthusiastic and a good narrator in episode #1. I wonder if it’s still his dream to be stranded on the island? From the top contender in Airai, Jason appears to have no chance of making it to the end. He’s the villain who could fall before the merge since he has no connection to the Favorites. The Targets: They could make the merge but what happens after that? Eliza is still the narrator and now her pre-reward confessional was proven to be true since they won. Better yet, although we heard her mentioned as a target, we also heard Cirie saying that “we can get rid of Eliza anytime”!! That could give Eliza a reprieve, her Vanuatu theme coming back to her aid instead of being her downfall. On the other hand, Cirie has always been presented as a smarter player than the Yasur women. Cirie is someone the audience has been led to connect with, to believe. Despite Eliza’s vote with the alliance, she makes an easy mark. No one will be dragging her to the merge. Mikey is Joel’s target as we saw in the opening scene. That’s a dangerous place to be but Mikey isn’t presented as a victim. A victim is usually powerless against his rival but Mikey isn’t without recourse from what he tells us. Following the usual “Victim” edit, we got to know him early on and we see him as a good player but, what isn’t the traditional victim edit, is that we also see him as an opponent to the older players. Notice how his confessional ended being more about the need to get Kathy, Tracy and Chet out than seeking revenge on Joel. The editing is leading us to expect that Mikey will savor his revenge later on when it isn’t “team on team”. James is starting to have pointers that he will once again be a target of his own alliance after the merge. Even if he told Parvati that he doesn’t want to see them vote her out of there, Parvati said she made him no promises and, indeed, we have heard no promises. Is James really back in China and the dumbasses get the better of him again? It fits too well in the editing not to be the case. They didn’t need to include his confessional as he did wind up voting with Cirie so even if it helped build the suspense for this episode, it would have been too good to pass up if James doesn’t get more of that déjà vu feeling! Amanda, despite being a member of the PACT, is seeing her chances of victory rapidly diminishing. Not only is she shown taking a back seat to Parvati in dealing with Cirie but Ozzy is shown as the calculating one of their pair. Amanda is only part of the alliance not one of its driving forces.There were too many shots of Amanda being hurt by the fans in the reward challenge not for it to come to fruition. I’d suggest the editing is preparing us for Erik to use the idol to bounce her out of the game after the merge. That would irritate James and make him go after the Ice Cream Scooper. The only problem is that I have no idea why Erik would vote out Amanda with the idol and not a more threatening player. Another intriguing possibility is that Amanda loses again the jury vote because no Fans vote for her. Either way, even without receiving a vote at TC, Amanda has started to look as a target to me. The Duelers: They will go far in the game and could pull out the win but they look like distractions, the big talkers who expose themselves to others. Which of Jonathan or Cirie did you see as the villain during their confrontation? Editing of Villains and Victims has proven to be so important to this series that the answer to that question practically tells us who will be crowned Sole Survivor. Is Malakal doomed as Jonathan thinks or did Cirie make a good move? Who was right, Jonathan or Cirie? If the answer is Jonathan than the Sole Survivor should be a Fan or maybe Jonathan himself. If Cirie is right, the winner is in the 5 person alliance, with Parvati and Ozzy as their top contenders. Jonathan could be right. After all, he was defending Yau Man, a very popular player (We can be sure that the Fans won’t be applauding when they see Malakal next!) Also, Jonathan appears to be right about the tribe needing strength especially being already one player down. Yau Man is immensely more valuable than Parvati. Editing wise, seeing Jonathan strategizing with Ozzy and Jeff’s IC comment of being reminded of Cook Islands could be preparing us for an all Cook Islands Final 3. So why do I think Jonathan is wrong, that he is the “Villain”? I’ll tell you when we get to our contenders. For now, I see Jonathan has being really edited as the ‘Stephenie’, the returning player who becomes that villain. For Jonathan, being the villain isn’t new. He’s one of the best at it, causing all sorts of havoc for our favorite players. He will go far but even if he does make it a Cook Islands Final 3, I don’t see him winning it. Not after we were allowed to see him go after Cirie in such a vehement manner. The editors would have presented him as becoming an underdog, not someone forgetting about their own actions and accusing someone of flopping on their alliance. So, if she’s right, shouldn’t I say Cirie is a top contender? Well, she has her chances still, but I wouldn’t put her as a top contender. Just as Jonathan was vehement in his attack on her, she was shown as being the sole player responsible for Yau Man’s elimination. To prove that: How many remember that Ozzy was the first to target Yau Man when he had his fire side chat with his alliance and Eliza? By the end of the episode, the editor’s plan was for the viewers to admire Cirie’s game intelligence, going “from the swing vote to the one who’s deciding what’s going on for the whole group” as James said. Yet, she has now put a target on her own back. Even if we were impressed by her in Panama, we were only shown Cirie’s game intelligence after the merge when she convinced everyone that Terry would keep the idol and then when she engineered great blindside votes against Courtney and Shane. Shane had “carried her 300lbs” because he thought he had a loyal sheep but now? Cirie has a much too long way to go on her own. The Contenders: Alexis cannot be ruled out. If Jonathan is right and Cirie has just divided irrevocably Malakal, Airai could reach the merge with numbers despite all the players we see as targets there. More likely, Alexis could find an opening and infiltrate the Favorites’ alliance. She was probably the “nice girl” Ozzy refered to after the reward. It would be fitting, this season being a cross between All-Stars and Guatemala, and I predicted that a winner coming from Airai would have less airtime than a Yul, an Earl or a Todd but would have the subtle edit that Danni received. Could that fan winner also use her strategy? That would make an interesting turn of events after all the talks of kicking the opponents’ asses we’ve had from the start. Alexis being the Sole Survivor would be a good ending to what we have been shown up to now since we’ve had her thoughts in every episode. You could say she is like Jason who is discovering just how tough playing this game is but Alexis has a much more positive story than Jason. We still see her enthusiasm as she cheered the tree mail. She hasn’t said the older players don’t deserve to sleep in the cave, we actually saw her hugging Chet. Don’t eliminate Alexis! Ozzy, like Amber in All-Star, has been shown to have grown since the Cook islands. The arrogant Oscar, who hid fish from Raro and threatened mutineers with death, is gone. We heard a sympathetic Ozzy, worrying about the rain affecting Airai. More importantly, in only 1 episode, we heard him strategizing with Eliza, Jonathan, Parvati and Cirie in 4 different scenes. He only had that many strategic talks during Billy’s last episode and that, again, was more Oscar than Ozzy. Finally, and here is why I think Cirie is right and not Jonathan: Burnett hid an extremely popular player such as Yau Man, only presenting him as a potential threat, giving him no confessionals to explain himself in his 3 episodes, except for talking about finding an idol. It makes me almost certain that the winner is in the 5 people alliance of Parvati, Ozzy, Cirie, Amanda and James. Our dear old Yau Man should have been seen as a victim yet we had been told by Fairplay he wasn't all that smart. One of the most worthy underdogs the series has ever seen shouldn’t have been ignored or put down but had we felt for his struggle then the alliance of 5 would have been unredeemable as winning characters. Despite all the tricks Burnett went to for us not to feel much of Yau Man’s pain, we still heard Ozzy saying he didn't want to vote him out. All the players’ stories being intertwined, even Yau’s staunchest supporters won’t accuse Ozzy of turning into the unreliable Oscar again. They could still cheer for Ozzy’s victory. Parvati has also grown since the Cook Islands and she could also be the “Amber” of this season. We see her as the strategist, as the one who knows she can’t win against Ozzy and James, so she flirts only to keep them close. Parvati was heard thinking of keeping Yau Man but having to keep the tribe’s vote unified. That’s sound game strategy. Parvati is a leader of sorts in that alliance, not necessarily the sheep that Jonathan sees. We saw her, along with Ozzy, involved in the Reward Challenge so not hearing Jeff mention either one of them, even in voice-over, seemed intentional, a way to show them being under the radar as far as the fans are concerned. I’d keep an eye on her.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-23-08, 09:00 PM (EST) 39. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Great, great assessments as well, michel! You and Veruca are just so amazing at this. I especially agree with your assessments of Cirie. Cirie did show us her game play, no doubt about that, but she did anger, I think alot of us. She was the sole reason that Yau-man was booted. I found her contraditory strategy to be somewhat confusing as well, she almost seems demanding and stubborn and you correctly noted that she has indeed placed a target on her own back. I love how you catagorized the tourists, the villains, the targets, and the contenders and I agree with those assessments as well. I have also noted how sympathetic the viewer is with Ozzy... admitting his attraction to the beautiful Amanda, commenting on the misery of the Airai tribe and how he feels sorry for them, and holding out against the demanding Cirie to not write Yau's name down. Thanks, michel!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-23-08, 09:27 PM (EST) 40. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-24-08 AT 01:07 PM (EST) Thanks FP and let me return the compliment. Your analysis is great and gives me more food for thought. This particularly: "I found it interesting that in the first episode Cirie noted that she just had no plan whatsoever, and that she would indeed go with the philosophy of writing anyone’s name down as long as it were not her own, or as I like to call it, the Sandra Strategy. Well, clearly this episode contradicts her very first appearances in episode one. She demanded that the younger couples write down Yau-man’s name, it was going to be her way, period. This is not the Sandra Strategy. So, what’s up with that? Are we to assume that she’s a serious strategist now? Was this a test of the others and their loyalties?" Add that with Veruca's astute observations of the complexity of Malakal's alliances, that Ozzy said "us five" refering to the couples and Ami and with Eliza's own inclusion in that alliance, I have even more doubts that Cirie will be a contender at the end even if she was right to go against Jonathan's alliance. Veruca, I must say you keep showing me more than I see on TV. I had Joel having less prospects than Mikey but I'm not so sure anymore. Interesting how you prove we can't eliminate the Fans from contention with the way they aren't forgotten on such a big episode for the favorites.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Stevil907 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-24-08, 12:21 PM (EST) 41. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Hi, longtime lurker here. I have really enjoyed reading everyone's analysis for many seasons now and wanted to add my two cents to the discussion. This episode really got me thinking and it was the wink that Kathy was shown apparently giving to Cirie that really got my wheels turning. I remember past seasons though, such as Exile Island, where a wink is merely a wink. I don't think this is the case here. So I ask everyone to please be patient with the newbie as I suss out my thoughts. As Kathy and Ami are leaving for Exile Island in episode three it appears that Kathy turns and gives a wink to Cirie. Why did she wink? What is Burnett trying to draw our attnetion to here? In previous seasons we've seen Survivors go to Exile Island and have watched their attempts, successful and not to find the Immunity Idol. Every time a Survivor has found the HII we've always been in on the secret. What if Burnett is trying a new tact and keeping us all in suspense so that if and when the HII is finally played it takes everyone, even the home audience by surprise? This method of telling the story of course would only work if the HII is played of course. In the episode 2 we saw Cirie and Kathy searching for the HII but were never told definitively whether they found it or not. If I recall, and please correct me if I am wrong, we never heard confessionals from either saying they didn't find the HII. We heard about how hard it was to swim back and forth but no moment where we heard that they just couldn't find it. In past seasons I can recall seeing confessionals from many who were unsuccessful in their search for the Idol. So here's where some supposition comes in. We know Kathy was star-struck by seeing Yau-Man, she was established in episode one through her confessional as being very excited to see him. We can assume she was probably just as struck by Cirie. We know Cirie can play the social game, so would it have been that hard for Cirie to convince Kathleen to let her take the HII? Especially knowing that Kathleen already had an Idol from Episode 1. This leads into episode 3 where we saw our wink and got a very short view of Exile Island. We did see Kathy was not all that anxious to follow the clues and search for the Idol this time around. She even went so far as to suggest that the weather was getting bad and they stop searching. Did she know the search would be fruitless? Was she trying to prevent Ami from learning that the HII has already been found and is resting with Cirie? We also need to look at the change in Cirie from episode one of - "anyone but me"...to the Queen Bee of episode 3. Why does she suddenly feel so confident? Could it be that she has the HII and doesn't need to worry? This also brings me to the booting of Yau Man. Cirie was positively insistent on Yau getting the boot. She told the others she was worried about Yau finding the HII, could she have been more worried about him not finding it and learning that she already had it? Not willing to give up on her secret she worked to get rid of Yau. And also she always had the HII as a plan B. OK that was a lot...but back to the wink. Was Kathy letting Cirie know the secret was safe with her? I guess only time will tell. The one thing to be sure of, if Burnett is taking the story of the HII down this path, we will definitely see it played. Or maybe I am just overthinking and a wink is just a wink?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-24-08, 01:55 PM (EST) 42. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-24-08 AT 02:01 PM (EST) Wow Stevil, we are sure glad that you decided to come out of lurking to post instead! What an intriguing quandry you present....and it's certainly plausible. I would love it if Mark Burnett would do something like this. To the general audience, we assume that Cirie/Kathy did not find it, as in past shows, they placed it front and center when the idol is found. This show could indeed be different. Certainly food for thought! Welcome to Blows... fp PS. We won't have to wait very long to see just what may happen with the idol as this week in the previews for next week, "and and Exile Island that can not be missed", as we are shown male arms reaching down to lift up a rock...presumably something, most likely the idol will be found under there, but now we will all be wondering, is it the idol, or is it a fake? Decided to note this as the previews for next week have already aired to the general public...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Slider 3 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-24-08, 08:33 PM (EST) 43. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Hi everyone, I have enjoyed your thread for years, alomost as much as I enjoy watching Survivor. This is my first post, and I am hoping it is OK. Several things stick out to me during these first three episodes: 1. The lack of air-time for some of our favorites, especially Yau and Ami. Both of them are such colorful characters and I am sure there is a lot they could have shown. 2. The lack of a story arc for Yau Man. Mark Burnett usually highlights a character before the fall, and I was disappointed that we didn't get to hear anything from Yau about his game play. He deserved at least the edit JF got. 3. The obvious manipulations. This has been pointed out by several people, but I also notice that when Ami was talking to the couples on the beach, they showed Jonathon coming up and Ami leaving. The others kept on talking like nothing happened, then for a split second before they called Cerie over, you saw Ami's arm still there. It seems that they might have said something about Ami leaving and talking to Jonathon. 4. Also as stated before, there seem to be little secrets, as everyone seems to filter in during private conversations! 5. Lastly, We've been hit over the head for the past 2 episodes with the 4/4 alliance with Cerie in the middle, but I think there is a lot more going on. As previously stated, the couples talked to Eliza, then included Ami in discussions. Why did they go with Cerie if they had Ami? It seems that Cerie and Eliza are close, Ami has something going on with the couples, and when Ami, Eliza, and Jonathon are talking, you can see Parvati and Yau in the background having a conversation the whole time. Why did Cerie want to vote out "Yau, or Jonathon", yet decide firmly on Yau, even when she was angry at Jonathon? There seems to be much more than 4 against 4 with Cerie, and I would not be surprised at all to see other alliances emerge. None of the favorites has mentioned a swap and keeping numbers up, yet as seasoned pro's, they have to know their basic alliances can't last during a swap, and they better be tight as a group. We all know alliances shown don't last, does this mean other alliances not shown will come into play later? Thanks for listening to my ramblings! Slider   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-24-08, 11:16 PM (EST) 44. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" *winks* to Stevil. *waves* to Slider. Welcome to the boards and nice posts. Looking back at the timing of events, I was fascinated that, right after Cirie said: "I should be carried on the chariot type thing" which was the episode title, we had this image on our screen: Doesn't it look like the closest thing the editors could do to show us how well Parvati and Amanda were reading Cirie's mind?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-25-08, 10:42 AM (EST) 45. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Michel you are taking my line (re: late to the party) Those of you who have decided to come in and join my fun - thank you and please continue doing so. The dreaded wink - I must say winking has always been an issue for me as some people here know (fp - I know you know ) so you must understand that I never feel a wink is ONLY a wink I do have a question or two to anyone who wishes to answer 1. If a FAN won this season, how would you want (or expect) that fan to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against returning players. 2. If a FAVORITE won this season, how would you want (or expect) that favorite to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against other people who are also returning. 3. If a FAN won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of favorites and how they are being developed 4. If a FAVORITE won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of fans and how they are being developed. Thank you kindly for any and all replies.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Misty365 28 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 02-25-08, 12:10 PM (EST) 46. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" VS, Answers to your questions: 1. Someone who can hold their own in challenges and strategy and not be "star struck" about the favs they are competing against. 2. One who has learned from past mistakes and corrects them. Also, someone who realizes the other returning players have most likely learned and adapted. 3. Moving on to the individual game sooner than they should (ie. before the merge) 4. I would expect the fans to compete well and have a - if not necessarily happy - content camp life. Hope that makes sense to you - unfortunately, most of these things are happening in different ways. Now for a question of my own - Am I the only one who saw Cirie as a spoiled kid, stamping her feet and saying - "play my game or I'm taking my toys elsewhere"? That is the only impression I got from her. I was never a big Cirie fan before, I could take her or leave her, but now I can't even stand to look at her.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Erika221 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-25-08, 05:32 PM (EST) 49. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-25-08 AT 05:41 PM (EST) >Now for a question of my >own - Am I the >only one who saw Cirie >as a spoiled kid, stamping >her feet and saying - >"play my game or I'm >taking my toys elsewhere"? >That is the only impression >I got from her. >I was never a big >Cirie fan before, I could >take her or leave her, >but now I can't even >stand to look at her. > You are not the only one that can't stand to look at her and yes before I wasn't a HUGE fan, but I liked her. I think what they did do with this last episode though was to try to minimize how spoiled she was acting. I think the editors took great care in showing us little/nothing of Yau, since he was such a favorite and so well-loved. I think they also showed much more of Cirie laughing and giggling in the confessionals to curb the blow of the potential backlash on her, though it still wasn't enough for me to like her again. I don't think she is Steph 2.0, but she is certainly no longer likable at all to me. Can't stand her.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-25-08, 02:56 PM (EST) 47. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" >1. If a FAN won this season, how would you want (or expect) that fan to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against returning players. Want: That the FAN outwitted and outplayed the Favs (some masterful bit of strategy/immunity run/etc.) Expect: At least holding their own against the Favs and a positive edit. The winner of rivalries with other tribe (ex. Jason beats Ozzy in challenges). > >2. If a FAVORITE won this season, how would you want (or expect) that favorite to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against other people who are also returning. Want: How great they are at everything - physical, mental and social. No one can compare. Expect: Someone who has mastered the social game and a positive edit. The finder of the idol (ex. Cirie really did find the immunity idol) > >3. If a FAN won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of favorites and how they are being developed > Want: I still would want to see all the players and their stratagies - which worked and which didn't. Expect: Favorites would get less airtime and be shown negatively. "why they didn't win" >4. If a FAVORITE won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of fans and how they are being developed. Want: I still would want to see all the players and their stratagies - which worked and which didn't. Expect: fans would get less airtime and be shown negatively. "why they didn't win" Fan winner - positive edit/holding their own - Alexis, Natalie, Jason Fav winner - strategic/positive edits: Ozzy, Pavarti, Cirie Tribes: At this point it looks like the Favs are doing better in terms of editing, but this may be because, the Favs are why alot of people are watching, and the editors have decided to highlight them while they are in the game.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-25-08, 06:10 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-25-08 AT 06:19 PM (EST) Veruca, I'll answer your quizz but let me ask you my question again: Do you think my hypothesis has merit, that Yau Man was hidden because the winner is in the alliance that eliminated him? I'd like to hear your thoughts. For my answers, I have to use Nash Game Theory: As far as the tribes go, both are shown as being divided: - Malakal has 2 factions, making it a D-Tribe. - Airai has three, making it a M-Tribe. If Malakal wins, they will have to be portrayed somewhat like Ogakor, one of the few, if not the only, D-Tribe to win as a tribe. Malakal is at a crucial stage, just like Ogakor was after the Mitchell boot: Both leaders are still there but the power has definitely been taken by one side. Like Tina who had wrestled it out of Jerri's hands. Malakal will have to put their differences aside and compete as one. If Malakal loses, they could be portrayed like Samburu or Zhan Hu, two of the many D-Tribes that lost. As far as Airai, few winners have come from a M-Tribe, an exception being Vecepia in Maraamu. I don't think a M-tribe has ever been presented overcoming it's division so we would see Airai's problems continuing, the winner being somewhat isolated from the drama. Food for thought: Alexis was shown on screen as Mikey said "So much drama". As far the winner is concerned, I stick with the following: - A fan winner would have the subtle kind of edit Danni had. Not a lot of airtime since the stars have to be shown but always present and always having meaningful input. Remember Ozzy talking about the 'nice girl'. I'm thinking it was Alexis because she was the one we saw Ozzy tangled with. It would be like Stephenie saying "Danni is an awesome Chick!" The problem is that Alexis didn't get the credit since Ozzy didn't say her name. We'd be getting more direct references to how good a player that fan is. - A favorite winner will show us that their game has improved like Amber, who was much more involved in All-Stars than she was in the Outback. Ozzy and Parvati are the only ones who have shown improvement up to now. Either way, with so many leaders, it would be appropriate game theory that the winner is presented as a follower. Alexis is a follower and I find it very interesting that we were never really shown the leader of the couples' alliance and that now, we've been told by James that Cirie has taken over. That makes both Ozzy and Parvati followers!!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-25-08, 07:29 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-25-08 AT 07:31 PM (EST) Happy to answer your thought provoking questions, VS! 1. If a FAN won this season, how would you want (or expect) that fan to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against returning players. I would expect them to show me some serious game play and strategy. Someone that doesn't make waves, gets along with the group, receptive to others and their thoughts, someone that left all options open. Someone who is not star struck, but would work to befriend the other tribe members as well. Someone quick on their feet, able to assess the social situation and adapt to them. THey must not be shown as a cut throat villain. 2. If a FAVORITE won this season, how would you want (or expect) that favorite to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against other people who are also returning. I would expect the favorite to capatilize on their strengths from their previous season, while working hard to learn from their short comings. I would expect their efforts to be edited in. I would expect the favorite to be receptive to others and to give their very best efforts in challenges. I would expect them to take their own tribemates as threats to them, just as the other team members are threats to their winning. I would like to see an "offensive game". 3. If a FAN won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of favorites and how they are being developed...I would expect to see self destruction and an inability to unite for the challenges. I would expect to see more from the fan tribe being edited in, and less from the favorite side. I would see the strong being voted out prior to the physically weak ones, therefore reducing their chances to have more numbers at the merge. More villains at the Fav's tribe perhaps. I would expect to see the favs not taking the other tribe seriously perhaps, over confidence/arrogance. Perhaps a swap that turns the numbers around... 4. If a FAVORITE won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of fans and how they are being developed. I would expect to see chaos at the Fan tribe, an inability to come together for the challenges, voting out the strong first over weaker perhaps which would lead to more challenge losses. Lots of villians perhaps, or folks being edited that have some kind of journey to complete...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Outfrontgirl 3955 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-28-08, 05:38 AM (EST) 55. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Trying to answer your question Veruca. I'm in the minority I think, but I don't expect the show to tell me anything but the story that happened. I'm not saying the editors don't manipulate a lot, but I have never felt like the editing had a goal of making me feel satisfied about who won. I have very seldom been happy with who won, and if Jeff and EPM aren't that impressed by the winner, I think we've all see them give the second or third place player a stronger edit. In the case of a male winner, I expect to see how and why they won very clearly laid out. In the case of a female winner, I've come to expect her to get a bit of short shrift for her accomplishments, but perhaps that has more to do with UTR strategies than sexism. I think if Kathy had won Marquesas we would have seen her front and center, or Tammi. I think EPM respects a balls out aggressive game with plenty of challenge whoring and negotiation and power plays, and he doesn't think much of players who just manage not to be eliminated. But he loves an Underdog tribe story line. I think they sit down during the game and after the game and figure out what the story of the season was, and then try to tell it. They already dealt, in ASS the first, with an unfortunate string of boots where beloved players like Colby and Ethan didn't even make the merge, nor did Hatch, nor Rudy ... and Rupert the favorite played a safe boring game, and what could they do with that ... they looked at what they had, Boston Rob, a love story, probably not at all what they had envisioned. No clash of the Titans at the end, just Rahbfaddah running the show ... well, I am rambling, but the point I'm making is that they must be prepared going in to lose some very sympathetic players all too early. Yau is like the Rob C of this season, nevery had a chance because his rep was too dangerous. I don't think Cirie has a bad edit because she axed Yau Man. Yes, she came off as overly entitled and demanding, but I saw it as a kind of comedy. All these players feeling SO entitled with their sides all aligned and they so kindly let Cirie be their swing, and she turns it on its head and says excuse me, without my vote you don't have a majority so suck it up, Ozzy! Plus I thought she was right, that Yau has a sort of affinity for finding idols that was very dangerous, and she nipped it in the bud. It was a pretty risky move for her to be so assertive, but I think she picked the right target. Jonathan already had Yau set up as the "smartest guy on the tribe" foil for himself. She knocked out Jonathan's strategy too. The story I see for the Faves is that they all come to the second chance saying they have to play differently because they know why they lost before. So, if I have an expectation created by selected clips, I would say that a Fave or Faves will be shown succeeding by switching up their game. Expectation set up by the editing for the Fans, is that one or more will succeed because his or her game is an unknown and they can pull off a surprise. Back to Cirie, I think everyone expected her to play Sandra/Vee/Cassandra/Lydia/Becky/Sundra/Old Cirie and stay out of the limelight hoping to outlast people, hoping her tribe wins enough pre-merge to where she doesn't get booted as a weak challenge player. The way most all minority women have played the game other than Alicia. Well, she didn't, and now she's the villain because a likable person is gone and she's not so likable just now. I like it. By the way, I don't think Parvati and Amanda were playing her but intend to go to the end with James or Ozzy. Amanda came into this knowing she blew it in China and her male cohort was going to win. Todd had a fraction of Ozzy's star power. James is a stud. Those two can't beat those guys, and an Amber game is not going to work. I think they genuinely have crushes but in terms of their endgame they do know it can't be James or Ozzy in the Final 3 with either of them. However, they feel confident they can beat Cirie in a final immunity and they probably fear both Ami and Eliza more than Cirie on all levels. It probably won't play out like the scene on the boat, but you never know when the editors just plain show it to you. Remember Yul and Becky made one of the first alliances in the Cooks, which we were shown very explicitly, and indeed they went to Final 3 together. "If I'd meant that, I'd have said it." - Lewis Carroll   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mysticjay 14 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-04-08, 02:26 PM (EST) 63. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Here are my thoughts on these excellent questions: 1. If a FAN won this season, how would you want (or expect) that fan to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against returning players. I would want to see them playing a smart game, so that I'd feel they deserved to beat a returning player. I'd want them to strategic, good to their allies, flexible and really, the word is "deserving". More deserving than any favorites they are up against. 2. If a FAVORITE won this season, how would you want (or expect) that favorite to be shown to you ESPECIALLY in light of them playing against other people who are also returning. I'd want to see that they learned from their season and surpassed their previous game-play. Show us something new about them. Someone who, again, "deserved" the win over the other returning players, because of their strategic choices and social skill in keeping allies loyal. 3. If a FAN won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of favorites and how they are being developed I'd expect to see the favorites being shown as arrogant, as not having embraced the lessons of the past, making the same mistakes, and underestimating the fans. 4. If a FAVORITE won this season, what would you expect to see happening with the tribe of fans and how they are being developed. That they remain slightly star-struck, as they did with Stephanie, so that a favorite could more easily direct the game with willing accomplices. I'd expect to see the fans shown as a bit clueless in understanding the game they are playing and making mistakes that cost them down the road.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Erika221 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-25-08, 05:16 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-25-08 AT 05:16 PM (EST) I think that the imagery here is exactly that - great find! I wonder though if this could be more than that...Queen Cirie's royal subjects actually carrying her to the win? I don't know, but it's certainly a powerful image.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Modesty 20 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-26-08, 07:52 AM (EST) 52. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Thoughts" Hello all I decided tonight to quit lurking and drop in and say hi. I'm a big fan of your work over here but never planned on ever posting. I was struck recently though by a thought - it happens occasionally! I was watching episode three (AGAIN) when I saw that look on Parvati's face that a few of you have been discussing from during tribal council. I don't know how to drag screen caps in here yet so I'm hoping you'll know the look I'm talking about. It's when they're all going on about Jonathan being untrustworthy etc etc. Parv gets a very satisfied look on her face.. like the cat that got the cream.. you know the one I'm sure. Okay so my point is this - Was this actually Parv's story? Have we seen her story played out? She's had some terrific editing in the first 3 episodes prompting most of us to put her around the top of our imaginary winner's lists. BUT... was this her story?? - just played out a little earlier than most? Jonathan flipped on her and screwed her game completely in Cook Islands leaving her and her alliance shattered. I know there's a lot of Parv haters out there who think she sucks but the truth is, she was in a very strong position on the Raro tribe. Jonathan single handedly wrecked it for her. To the best of my knowledge they still hate each other to this day. Perhaps it was her story to do the same thing to him - albeit through a third party. Instead of gaining his trust herself and screwing him over she did it via Cirie. It may be just my fevered imagination - but I'm completely impartial in this regard because I mildly liked both Jonathan and Parv coming in to this. It's just possible that this edit could have been telling us just as much about the Jon/Parv relationship as it was the Cirie/Jon relationship. If I'm right - and not just a completely lunatic - we would start to notice declining screen time and confessionals from Parv and we'll have to go back to the drawing board because the editors are trying to trick us! How dare they?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-28-08, 09:42 AM (EST) 56. "RE: Episode #3 Editing Impression:" Here's my editing impression finally, sorry it's late. Wow what an episode! The themes of acting in own interests vs. the tribe and who will be in control stood out for me. Highlighted/new relationships Jonathon vs. Cirie Mikey vs. Joel Cirie+ Pavarti+Amanda Cirie + the showmancers Big standouts: Alexis on Favorites - shown succeeding. Joel alone in the end zone - also shown tackling Amanda. Eric hitting Eliza with the bag - the evil edits continue. On Favs it was all about Cirie - who will she trust? She frames her argument well and gets Amanda and Pavarti a final 3 agreement - they agree to vote against their own showmancers in the future b/c they know they can't win against them. Pavarti says we need to show Cirie we trust her by voting for who she votes for. James thinks its dangerous to have Cirie calling the shots and Ozzy wants the weakest link out Eliza not Yauman (needed for smarts in challenges) but he'll do anyting for Pavarti. It looks like someone swayed Ozzy too. Cirie thinks Yau is the greatest threat and gets her way. Episode 3 # of Relationships/parallels/time on screen could mean longevity in the game. Fans in order of longevity Young ones: Alexis, Joel, Eric, Mikey, Jason, Natalie Older ones: Kathy, Tracey, Chet Flirting Mikey and a woman was it Alexis? Also the older ones weren't called out as being bad in the challenge. During the immunity challenge lots of shots of Joel and how the older ones were doing - seeming to question whether he will regret his choice of booting Mary - but they did well and won... From the insider - Alexis and Jason not shown as villians. Joel not shown as strategic. Alexis's cute/sweet side also hidden... Favs in order of longevity Showmancers: Cirie, Pavarti, Amanda,Ozzy, James, Strategists: Ami, Eliza, Jonathon James a big part of winning the reward challege but didn't win the immunity challenge so it's draw vs. Joel.... Amanda "weakness" - she is falling for Ozzy. Pavarti is in control. From the insider - Pavarti not shown teaching Amanda the joys of flirting as strategy. Jonathon and Eliza look like the next ones out. Jonathon continues to dig his own early grave by not leaving Cirie alone. Ami looks like she is hedging her bets but will last longer than those 2. We'll see if a tribe swap or immunity wins helps them stay longer or if the couples get sick of Cirie being in charge. Now that they have the majority they could vote Cirie out - will they realize they still need her? Tonight: Joel vs. Mikey and Jonathon vs. Cirie   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

CTgirl 3483 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 02-27-08, 05:52 PM (EST) 53. "Survivor Women" This is a little bit of a tangent because I’m referring to the advertising trailers for this week’s episode. But while I was writing this week’s SOTS, I spent a lot of time looking at the vidcaps and this promo featuring “Survivor Women” got me thinking. The promo featured Parvati, Eliza and Alexis in the photo (which is obviously photoshopped, so why were those three chosen?). The promo also showed Amanda and Parvati running during the IC and highlighted Cirie as a power broker. But what if the tide is turning and it also serves to plant the seed that the women are taking control of this season? Some might feel that the women’s story is misdirection, but if you look at the vid caps there is a marked contrast to how often and how the men and women are portrayed. Also of note, Parvati was all over the promos and she doesn’t figure into any of the major stories this week! CBS released four promos and she was in three of them. Some highlighted her flirting, but she was featured competing too and was singled out for the shot above. We also saw several different shots of Cirie and Alexis, Eliza strategizing against Jonathan, Ami swimming, Amanda running, Alexis, Kathy, Natalie and Tracy at IC. In contrast Jonathan is seen arguing with Cirie, James flirting with Parvati, Joel talking to Tracy, Mikey complaining about Joel, Chet being talked about. No sign of Erik or Jason. Only Ozzy is seen in a proactive way – swimming hard during a challenge (and of course we see a lot of some man's arm too ). All this emphasis on women made me realize that the women are being edited differently. At this point we only have one guy to cheer for – Ozzy. Maybe you could include Jonathan, but he got the short end of the stick last week and continues to fight with Cirie this week. James’s social game has improved, but he doesn’t have much game play. To generalize, Joel’s a bully, Jason and Erik are punks, Chet’s ineffectual and Mikey is just there. On the female side, Cirie, Parvati and Alexis are getting edits that could take them deep into the game. Amanda hasn’t been featured as much this season but she could still be considered a long shot. Natalie is this year’s UTR player that could make it far (reminds me of Erik from last season). Eliza, Ami, Tracy and Kathy haven’t received a lot of time, but they haven’t been portrayed as negatively as the men of Airai have either I thought the women’s edit versus the men’s edit might be something to keep an eye on. This season isn’t as blatant in that regard as Fiji, but it has potential. Ozzy's edit is much more strategic than Cassandra's and that could be the difference. Spring has sprung by Tribe   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

AngelSg86 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-27-08, 08:21 PM (EST) 54. "Credits" Hi there all, I've been lurking on these boards for years and decided to add something here. I noticed in previous seasons that you generally included an analysis of the opening credits and the editing used there. Is anyone going to try that this season? I'm sorry if its on another thread or something.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-01-08, 12:26 PM (EST) 57. "RE: Episode Four Editing" Let me apologize in advance for not addressing anyone. I am thrilled to see "new blood" in here along with those who have regularly come to play with me. My time has been limited but will address some comments - I have read everything though and I SO appreciate your answering my questions as they are very important with determining what the editors are attempting to show in this season. Michel, my apologies for not addressing your question. I went back to look (easy to find being bolded All viewing is subjective so I will not address who is right and who is wrong as BOTH parties (Jonathan and Cirie) had certain editing tweaks to imply a negative and/or positive. Regardless that YM was not shown as someone of his stature may have been, there was "tweaks" to imply that a very positive character was taken down (i.e. Kathy's fawning, YM's lack of any real negativity, the recap from this episode showed a definite change in recapping YM leaving - a change in music and almost a slow quality to his departure) Your comment that Fairplay stated YM wasn't all that smart is noted BUT was there any validation? This is coming from Fairplay and in that time, Ami was told not to cry at YM's departure, Ozzy and James wanted to keep him and only Cirie seemed emphatic he leaves and the editing never really and truly justified her insistence OTHER than he would find the HII and the three women agreed he would beat them. That being said, any end game player of the five you mention does not appear (to me) have anything to do with YM's edit OTHER than what occurred in this week's episode which I have noted. My ideas of longevity of these five are encompassed through unnecessary face time, first episode confessionals, a reflection of "change" in their strategy and so forth. I will say that this week's episode "tweaked" Cirie a bit and I am hard pressed to believe that this may not ultimately bode negative for her and left others a bit untouched. I am more inclined to believe that YM's lack of showing was more in line with his leaving so soon and that there was an incredible amount of dynamic going on that was more relevant and, in fact, this was probably less about YM than the "alliance" divisions. Recap By day 10 the situation was grim for the fans Alexis "Everyone's freezing, everyone's cold" (More shown on the state of their tribe) Jason "Other side is probably laughing at us..." A bitter power struggle emerged between Joel and Mike Obviously to set up this week's events So Joel turned on Mike by arranging to have his closest ally voted out Again the brunt of this falls squarely on Joel's shoulders At the IC, the fans pulled off a stunning upset At favorites..... (scene shown of Jonathan asking Cirie to work together with it shown that Cirie states: "Oh I definitely want to think about that" ) May prove to reflect a slightly sour tone to Cirie's edit Cirie convinced Jonathan and his alliance she was with them. But later she joined the alliance of James and Pavarti and Amanda and Ozzy. (Scene of the three ladies discussing if they were to go up against YM they'd never win) James and Ozzy wanted to vote out Eliza believing she was the weakest.. (scene of the four with Ozzy vocalizing his wish to vote out Eliza and Cirie not budging) At TC, Jonathan was angered at Cirie's betrayal (Again a slight tweak to perhaps reflect a bit more negatively on Cirie) (scene shown Jonathan hammering Cirie as to whether she was in the alliance, issue of trust brought up) In the end Cirie got one vote (would that be a beautiful foreshadowing moment if Cirie were to make it to the end and receive only one vote?) but also got her way. YM shown in a slightly different capture leaving - most definitely surrounding him with some bells and whistles which again perhaps taints Cirie a bit. Also noted was the glance from Eliza to Cirie after YM left (I had mentioned last week that I question if there is some relationship with Eliza and Cirie not yet explored and I still question this based on that contrived glance) Much focus again on the favorites and the discord that is occurring; most notably between Jonathan and Cirie which seems to indicate this "war" is not over between the two. Although there has been very different "sides" taken on who was wrong/right between Jonathan and Cirie, this recap seemed to tweak Cirie's edit a bit on the negative side capped off by the manipulated showing of YM leaving Tribal Council. The recap also reinforced the two alliances at the favorites camp and Eliza's name mentioned as potential victim is furthered in this week's episode even though they never went to Tribal Council. At this point, the dynamics seem to favor the favorites moreso than the fans yet it is hard to discern whether this is solely because they ARE the favorites. With a swap looming, the complexities will be evenly distributed since there will be favorites on both tribes but at this juncture, it appears there is more "meat" to the favorites that reflect end game status, i.e. more storylines building, more character fleshing, etc. The fans, on the other hand are mostly defined in the here and now. Their camp is horrific, power struggles are occurring (but are resolved almost immediately) and personas are only touched upon. Next week's episode should give us a better indication whether any of these fans are end game material and, at this point, I would base most of this on first episode confessionals from certain fans that are relevant to the future or the themes and/or any potential "match ups" (i.e. Joel/James, Erik/Ozzy, etc. which, when resolved, can also end an edit) as well as those fans who have been given some ample face time or manipulation (i.e. Alexis and Joel's hands focused upon, etc.) The Favorites Not surprising that the ramification of the Tribal Council are re-visited as most times they are. It is when they are NOT, that I question if a member of that tribe is end game. (Cirie, Ami and Eliza) Cirie "We have to talk Ami" Ami "Yeah I know, we need to go for a walk" Cirie "No we need to talk right now" Ami "I'm sorry I wrote your name down but I knew...." Cirie "I knew you wrote my name down" (Jonathan approaches) "I would have never wrote your name down" Ami "If you told me you were fine with Parvati for a long long time (note that Eliza is shown) I would have..." Cirie "I was and you know why? I didn't trust YM and Jonathan" (note again Eliza is shown during this) Jonathan "Come on Cirie. Whatever..." Cirie "I wasn't even talking to you" Jonathan "I'm here" (Cirie shown with a derisive look on her face - Jonathan's confessional is now shown) Cirie "I don't want to hear anything you have to say, really, Jonathan.... I don't really have to listen to what you have to say" (Jonathan thinks differently and now Cirie's confessional is shown) Jonathan "....you used me as an excuse to flop..." Cirie "....you know that I broke your alliance. I don't trust you, you don't trust me, everybody knows it, done!" Jonathan (conf) "Cirie flipped. She gave us her word; she was tight with us. She saw a better chance and she took it at my expense" (First portion in a voice over) "and the truth is she is much more manipulative and devious than I am!" Cirie (conf) "Jonathan is pissed off to the hilt; he's just mad because he couldn't make me vote the way he wanted me to" While neither party exactly expressed themselves in a positive manner, the editing never quite validated Cirie's notion that she could not trust Jonathan or YM. Neither of them were ever shown that they would betray Cirie and, in fact, there was more validation that Cirie was not true to her word by showing us in the recap that she and Jonathan talked along with Jonathan's confessional that Cirie flipped. Cirie's confessional revolved more around a somewhat "nanny nanny poo poo" (for lack of a better description ) tone and her conversation with Ami did not quite sound justified. She is angry at Ami for voting for her yet she decided to change the group she was with without letting Ami know so there is a bit of hyprocisy elicited not to mention that in light of YM's positive showing, Ami looks, if anything, as loyal to her bond. Interesting to note that Eliza is always in the middle of things and often shown as the observer during crucial scenes. The dynamics that played out reflect greatly that the favorites have much more to address amongst each other and curiously none of the other four were even involved The Fans (A group discussion showing Joel, Tracy, Mike, Chet, Kathy which opens with Tracy asking who they thought went home) Joel "I have no idea" Tracy "I think Eliza or YM" Chet agrees Joel "Really?" (a small chorus of "yeah") Chet "Yeah, that's what I think too" (A twofold note to this scene as it was completely unnecessary which begs the question - why was it even shown? Is this to further enhance discussion about the favorites as more centers around them for this season and/or is this also to show that despite Joel being this "man in charge" he has a very poor sense of game dynamics due to his surprise at their suggestion that either YM or Eliza would be going home since they were indeed right. Scenes such as this do perhaps require close attention as it was a completely arbitrary scene that did not require showing) Joel (conf) "We won our immunity challenge yesterday, we were very very pleased; there has been some dissension within the tribe. I think this was good for us" While Joel gets quite a lot of narrative duties, all of them are in the here and now and we know that many pre-merge narrators can leave upon merger. Joel's big story at his tribe focused mainly upon his rivalry with Mike and with that reaching a closure, Joel may not have any future longevity. The quality of words is more powerful than the quantity of words and Joel's high end status certainly merited his lasting over the little tweaks of vulnerability but his narratives are solely based upon current events. Mike B. had indicated that Joel was playing a long game as opposed to a short game in terms of the necessity of keeping strong players which would help in numbers. We shall see whether this pans out or not (We then see an eel caught with Mikey, Erik and Jason working on it while Alexis is shown calling out to them. The scene then switches to work around camp, all of which is to visually demonstrate that Chet is not doing what he needs to with his tribe as he sits) Natalie (conf) "You always need to be pulling your weight...all I've done since I've been here is keep my head down and work; this is where the rub is for me, I don't really feel Chet really wants to help out and carry his weight (validated by scene of everyone working and Chet sitting right in the middle of all of it) ...pick it up or go home" Furthering the immediate storyline for Chet to be a potential boot this episode, there was nothing shown that would indicate that Chet is working hard or valuable for the tribe. Ultimately, this may reflect poorly for Joel in making the wrong decision. Natalie finally gets a bit of face time which is really neither here or there since it focused mainly on present events but we did get a indication on her strategy in this game (Mike and Jason working around camp with Mike remarking on Chet) Mike (conf) "Chet is weak.... he's just dessimated. He's a physical and mental liability and he's horrible around camp. He's gone, Chet is gone" (Last portion in voice over with Chet shown all alone in the water. While not necessarily kind, again, the words spoken appear to be validated by the visuals shown) The Favorites (The scene opens with James going over to Eliza and questioning if she is okay and her asking him to feel her head and advising Eliza to "suck it up" Eliza's confessional was split up in three portion which is in its entirety at the end of the scene laid out) (An interesting image of a butterfly caught in a web next to a spider) James "We really should have gotten rid of Eliza last night" Ozzy "I can't believe that Eliza's like dying" (Eliza shown alone on beach with head down-Amanda now shown in the scene) James "...we're stupid, it's our fault" Prophecy? James (conf) "...we kept one of the weaker girls, Eliza and she's sick right now but being that Cirie was hell bent on getting YM out, we kinda folded to her will which was a big mistake" (This too has been softly hammered home to us that "bending" to Cirie's will was a big mistake which highly suggests a price may be paid for it) Lovely imagery shown of a black spider in a web which faded out to Cirie during James' confessional which again skews darker for Cirie, i.e. a deviousness as opposed to perhaps someone making a hard decision. Cirie is getting quite a manipulation this season (Eliza is shown laying down with focus on Ozzy and James although Pavarti, Amanda and Cirie are in the scene) James "I'm aggravated, I can't believe we did that stupid craps last night" (Eliza on camera laying down not pleased) Ozzy "Me neither" James "We couldn't even make a good, simple decision yesterday.. (Eliza shown again) instead we made a dumb one" Eliza "I'm still sitting right here" (a voice over as Pavarti is shown) James "I know you are sitting right there. But you're about to die!" Eliza "I'm not about to die, I'm just taking it easy so I can perform...." (Amanda on screen) (Discussion back and forth with Ozzy and Eliza on her "sickness" as shots of Parvati and Cirie are thrown in with a small smile on Cirie's face) Eliza "I'm still going to do better than YM would have" James "We'll see darling" Eliza's second portion of confessional shown Eliza "You know acting like that doesn't make me want to perform well in the challenge...if you were a little bit more supportive that would help" James "You're sick and you got attitude?" (Amanda shown followed by Eliza rolling her eyes) Eliza's third portion of her confessional was shown The scene ends with James amused and laughing and Eliza not so amused. Eliza (conf) "I feel really sick..... I feel like I am probably the next to go if we lose an immunity challenge because my tribe thinks I am weak and being sick doesn't help that" and "After they found out I was sick, right to my face, Ozzy and James said oh we should have voted you out last night so that made me feel like crap" and "I hate these people, I do. I almost hope they get sicker than I do and have to be removed from the game" (Foreshadowing? In light of the previews for next week, Eliza's words may indeed be prophetic) So much interest in a tribe that doesn't go to Tribal Council does bode well for some of these players. Unfortunately those like Ami are not receiving enough substance to merit long term despite her tribe being heavily featured. With that, it also appears there is a lack of substance with some of the men. For example, what are Ozzy and James thinking about their paired alliance? We hear commentary that Parvati has the men "wrapped" but we have no insight from Ozzy or James that they are being strategic in their decision to align with her and Amanda. Ozzy obviously has a story focus in light of his finding the HII but we have to discern whether that will be the bane of his edit much like Terry during his season. Ozzy's mantra has been "they all want to beat me" thus far so it will be interesting to see how that pans out. All of the women on this tribe (except Ami) have been given either private confessionals or group talk that reflects their observations and/or strategy for this game. We have not really received that attention from the men. Jonathan certainly had gotten a lot of attention with a lot of thought process and I would not expect any less from him but my issue is how he is set up quite like his prior season, i.e. dodging bullets much like James is very in line with his past showing, i.e. strength and firing commentary. Ozzy has received some more balance but his new and improved social skills may have been solely confined to Amanda. His confessional about Amanda did reflect insight that it would make him a target but (like Amanda) we were instantly followed up with them cuddling again. While Pavarti and James have also done this, Pavarti has at least noted to us a big first confessional and has been shown discussing a strategy and has been discussed as a threat. Collectively, the women do appear to be pulling more strings where we are not getting that kind of insight from most of the men The Challenge Kathy "No way!" (as YM noted to be voted out) Of note: Ozzy is a rock star in the water Chet chosen to sit out bJames solves the puzzle Kathy chosen for EI (notable tears in her eyes) Ozzy sweetly holds her hand Alexis given the manipulated forlorn shot of watching them go The Fans Sad music commences after they reach their camp Joel (conf) "We lost today.... ....they're living the life of luxury out here" wet head no shirt to left of our screen Alexis "Ozzy is insane......! "Man, I was jealous of Kathy" Perhaps a bit of future rivalry for Amanda and Alexis? Erik (conf) "Kathy is definitely a weak person.... I'm pretty confident she is not looking for the idol right now..." Exile Island Kathy (conf) "I love meeting the favorites; I wish I was on their tribe" She apparently gets her wish in light of the previews A beautifully edited scene of Ozzy searching furiously for the idol that truly could not have been edited in any other manner Ozzy (conf) "I really want to find the idol, there are guys out there that want to beat me, so it is really key I find the idol" and "Now that I've found the idol it changes the game so much " (edited into scene) "I can kinda now relax a little bit; now it's just a question of being sly enough..." and "Taking a lesson from YM in Fiji, I'm just gonna try and fashion some sort of fake idol" (preceded by a snake) and "I hope someone finds it and tries to play it" (Foreshadowing?) Of note is the premise of Ozzy's edit of everyone wanting to "beat" him and naturally his creating a fake idol The Favorites Cirie cracks a joke about the poultry and Eliza notes the rooster may be headed to the slaughterhouse "if we don't win today I may be headed to the slaughterhouse too" Eliza's edit this episode is evoking more sympathy for her rather than those (notably Jams and Ozzy in the prior scene) who are beating themselves up for not voting her off. Eliza "If for some horrible reason we're going tonight are you voting for me?" Pavarti "I don't know, I really haven't made up my mind" Eliza "I'm telling you I will be loyal to you till the end, I don't think Jonathan can make you that promise" Pavarti "Jonathan will make that promise and he won't keep it" Eliza "He will lie and you know that better than anyone" Of note, during this conversation, even while Eliza was speaking the camera was on Pavarti or the back of them while walking until the very last camera shot - therefore, visually the impact is meant to be more on Pavarti yet Eliza is attempting to save her own skin. Also note that the tribe did not go to Tribal Council yet we are shown these scenes which does demonstrate that the focus seems to be a lot on the favorites Eliza (conf) "Jonathan pisses people off and also he's somebody they know they can't trust so I'm hoping they realize he's a much more dangerous person to keep around because of the ease of which he'd flip" (This may or may not be an out of place confessional and taken from a future scene) Pavarti "You can make a very valid point I think" Eliza "He's a charmer, he's an actor. I guess I rub people the wrong way when I first meet them" Pavarti "Well you came off guns blazing right out of the gate" (Jonathan approaching) Eliza "We can't trust Jonathan, we are better off without him around" Jonathan (conf) "Eliza and Pavarti were talking... all I heard was get rid of Jonathan he really doesn't like you... she'll say anything she needs to say and it's so painful to watch somebody be on the outside who is trying to get back on the inside. I totally understand that, I feel sorry for her" Eliza (voice over) "I can't believe he followed us" Pavarti "It's ridiculous" Eliza "He followed us on purpose" Pavarti "He gets so paranoid. Did ya'll have an alliance in the beginning?" Eliza "Kind of, but I knew he was not exactly Mr. Trustworthy" Pavarti (conf) "Eliza is just trying to stay in the game, she is trying to save her butt right now, she's kind of throwing him under the bus... if we went to Tribal tonight, Eliza would be going home, yeah, she should be saying anything she can to save herself right now" Immunity Challenge Of note Jeff meant to be shown this time asking Ozzy that this was an opportunity to get a clue for the HII and naturally Ozzy plays dumb. Of note: The Fans are hopelessly lost during this challenge Eliza once again shown to get bumped and bruised Tracy sits out Eliza hugs the immunity idol Pavarti gets the manipulated ending shot of a big hug with Cirie The Fans Mike (conf) "The crew of misfits lost again, not even close again. Yeah we got some talent. I don't know what Joel has up his sleeve... my goal is to pretend I am Joel's ally and I forgive him and vote Chet off and keep Joel around as long as I can and until right before the merge, cut his damn head off Note that the first portion of this confessional is in the exact same spot where Mike had his earlier confessional about Chet and that Chet "is gone" The second portion about cutting his head off is from a different time period and may even have been done after Mary was voted off Joel "Kathy just gets on everyone's damn nerves" Mike "And I would rather Chet for more than just the reason he is the weakest; my mind is just spinning over the fact he is still here, he is the weakest and if we get rid of him then that will make me feel secure about your position you are still in control of the game but not dominating the game as far as my position" Joel "I'd rather have Kathy out" Mike "Just keep the thought, I have no problem joining forces with you but I need you to give a little to get a little you know" Not exactly the most effective sell job that I have seen on this show Of note, this tribe as a whole is NOT getting the "underdog" edit but rather, as Mike said, the "misfit" persona. We rarely hear the bells and whistles that accompany a group that is "underdog" status; only one time did sympathetic music play for the tribe en masse and that was after the rain storm where Joel's and Alexis's hands were honed in on. However, the following scene did reflect the undertone of that Tracy, Kathy and Chet may be somewhat edited sympathetically as noted by the melancholy music Tracy (conf) "Things are very crazy, I think it is very possible Chet could go home tonight; I think Chet could go home just like that" "If Chet's gone, then Kathy, then I could be next" Of note, this confessional does sound like it happened after her talk with Joel since it did not appear that things "were crazy" at that time and more likely she is referring to the last minute wheeling and dealing she took control of and questioning that regardless, Chet could still go home" Tracy attempts to bolster Chet to which he replies "My head is in the game... my body is not which is not my choice" to which Tracy replies "Let's take it to the next level" Tracy (conf) "I may not have a lot of power in this tribe but I can tell you this much, I'm going to go down with a fight" A snake is shown then Joel, Tracy and Chet..... Tracy "So truthfully who ya'll voting for" Joel "Chet or Kathy" Tracy "What about you wanting to vote Mike out" (Chet shown) Joel "That'll happen; it just can't happen right now. We need his strength right now to win challenges. Basically Mike and Jason think Chet is weak, run down and I think the rest of them will do whatever Mike asks them to do" Tracy "Why are you letting him call the shots right now?" Joel "I don't know, am I letting him? Tracy "Absolutely... ...it's crazy, you said you were going to get Mike off a long time ago here's your opportunity, I don't understand, I'm angry at you..." Joel "I am threatened by Mikey that is why I wanted to get Mary out... and maybe I should have gotten Mikey out in the first vote instead of Mary" Chet "Did he ever say anything to you about Mary?" Joel "Oh yeah he took that very personal that is why I know I have a big target on my back" Tracy "This is your best chance..." Joel "Well why are you saying that, what are you hearing" Tracy "I'm very intuitive, I know a lot of stuff just because I am born with it; I'm not saying I'm any type of guru but the writing is on the wall, seriously. There's nine people here, all you need is one person that can take Mike down" Joel "You three of you would vote for Mikey?" Tracy "We have one person you need to get then it's four of them and five of us; if one of us is gone, you're done, we can't help you anymore..." Joel "We'll see, tonight will be interesting" A very effective strategy implemented by Tracy however this did need to be shown and there was no manipulation involved. This was necessary to show to instill doubt for the upcoming TC. Note however that Joel was easily manipulated despite his contention he wanted to keep his tribe strong. This coupled with Joel not having his pulse on who may have been voted out at the Favorites is reflective that Joel is not exactly shown as having his pulse on the game which may cause a problem for him despite his heavy edit currently. Tracy, we already know, is the voice of the three in her group but quite a bit of her edit thus far has been strictly in the here and now and no real manipulation so her longevity is still questionable but we cannot rule out that there isn't some promise for her Chet "Personally I think it will be me tonight, that is what I am thinking" Tracy "That will mean Joel did the wrong thing" Chet "Whatever" Tribal Council Jeff "After tonight you will be even with the favorites" the prophetic cymbal crash Jeff asks Jason that this would imply the game is even and is it? Jason "Right now the favorites have the advantage, we have lost four of the past six challenges (Joel) but maybe after tonight's TC, we can make a stronger tribe" Jeff asks Joel how important is it to keep a tribe strong re: winning challenges (Mike) Joel "It's extremely important, the weaker our individuals are (Tracy with a look) the weaker a team" Jeff asks who will own up to the fact they have not delivered that well Chet raises hand: "For me the first challenge in the water was a little bit more than I thought it was (Jason with a look) but when it comes to certain challenges I can take a certain role (Mike) where I wouldn't need that extreme strength" (Chet does feel good about his other efforts besides that challenge however) Mike "To be honest Chet's been hurting, he's been exhausted for four days straight" (Jason agrees) "It's nothing personal against him but he doesn't have the capacity to compete" (Joel and Chet) Tracy "I didn't compete and Chet didn't compete and Kathy didn't compete and they still lost (Joel raises his eyebrows) so tell me how you can take blame for that?" Jeff asks Mike in a perfect world what happens when they go back to camp Mike "I just want to vote out the people who are weak (Chet) and physically unable to perform (Kathy) and I hope people who told me the way they are voting (Joel) do it because sometimes you have to give a little trust to earn a little trust" Jeff asks Erik if he agrees that there is a consensus that the tribe needs to be kept strong Erik "I agree we need to keep this tribe strong but it's not about (Mike) physical attributes in all these challenges (Jason) there's more to it than that" (Joel) Jeff asks Joel about why he was nodding Joel "I think strength is not just physical strength (Mike) am I the biggest on this tribe yes but it doesn't mean I'm gonna be the number one person in every challenge we have" (Tracy with small smile) Erik "Exactly, my point is that there is a direct way to go about something but not the best way (Chet) you can run into a wall 100 times but not the best way to get rid of the wall (Jason laughs that this is ridiculous) Jeff begins to commence the vote but Jason interrupts Jason "Again I need to emphasize the importance of tonight's vote in determining our future (Jeff is amused at this interruption) We have lost (Erik) four of six challenges (Natalie) (Joel) so take a moment to think (Mike) about important it is (Chet) who we keep on the island and who we let go (Mike) (Joel) Jason "Please leave the island" (re: Chet) Chet "Mike you've been a loudmouth from day one and never seemed to learn" Mike shown writing down Chet's name Joel gets the important last vote. Mike is voted out with three votes going to Chet Jeff "Well tonight's vote was obviously a very big vote; whether you made the right decision only time will tell" (Joel shown on this) Of note Alexis did not vote with Joel and Mike was shown to discuss Joel in his closing comments   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-01-08, 03:57 PM (EST) 58. "RE: Episode Four Editing" Another interesting episode with a surprise ending - at least for me. It seems that the short term plan of acting in own interests (voting Yau, Mary and Mikey off) vs. keeping the tribe strong may pay off (especially with a tribe swap looming). Highlighted/new relationships Kathy + Chet + Tracey allign with Joel - looked like a huge upswing in Tracey's edit Mikey vs. Joel - Joel wins end of his story? We know his edit is too evil to win, but we were shown that if he had kept Mikey in the game, Mikey would have taken his head off! James shown negatively picking on the sick Eliza - another negative edit, so he's not the winner... Jonathon negatively fighting with Cirie - his negative edit continues so he's not the winner either and Cirie's edit does seem to be negative too... (per Veruca's observations) Big standouts FAVS It was all about Ozzy - wow, great at swimming, but also using his brain by moving the other coconuts forward so their team easily wins the Challenge. Ozzy at exile island finding the immunity idol and showing smarts again by keeping it hidden and providing a fake idol...(I like the shape his edit is taking - he does seem to be edited as the best of the Favs, although it is a bit disturbing that we haven't seen if he knows he could be being played by Amanda... as Veruca brought up) Eliza, Cirie and James (funny surprise edit) figuring out the word scramble (proving that they didn't need Yauman). Eliza still the next one out - weak and sick? Or as Veruca says, who on the Favs will be sicker or weaker than her in the very near future? FANS - Tracey showing fight and strategy. Jason beating Ozzy short term but getting outsmarted by Ozzy long term. Looks like Jason is on the outside of the alliance - or is he b/c Alexis voted for Chet too? If Alexis and Jason are on the same team this could forshadow an alliance. Next week: The tribe swap will probably save both Jason and Eliza, but will probably not play out well for the characters edited as evil - Eric or Joel may be our next boot and of course James, Jonathon and Cirie are also entering the negative edit arena... at least if the tribes continue to vote for their own interests vs. tribe strength.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-01-08, 07:34 PM (EST) 59. "RE: Episode Four Editing" Thanks Veruca for answering my question. You give me a lot to think about. Here are my thoughts on this episode: The recap was mainly about the conditions in Airai, as shown by Jason’s “they’re laughing about us” confessional, and the power struggle between Mikey and Joel. In Malakal, we heard about Cirie’s gameplay and had a new look at the end of the previous tribal council with Eliza staring at Cirie. Day 9 - Aftershock: Greeted by a dramatic chant, we walked into Malakal where Eliza was observing while Cirie talked with Ami, who explained her vote. Jonathan stepped in. It led to the first confessional. Jonathan: “Cirie flipped. She gave us her word that she was tight with us. She saw a better chance and she took it at my expense but the truth is that she’s much more manipulative and devious than I am.” Cirie had her own confessional: “Jonathan is pissed off to the hilt. He’s just mad that he couldn’t make me vote the way he wanted me to.” The scene ended with Cirie telling Jonathan that they were done. Act II - In and Out of Rhythm: In Airai, the music was upbeat and so was the mood…at first. The fans were acting like fans, wondering who had been sent home, Tracy saying it had to be one of Eliza or Yau Man. Joel had their first confessional: “We won our immunity challenge yesterday. We are very, very pleased. There’s been some dissension amongst people in our tribe and I think that was good for us.” Jason caught an eel with Alexis urging him on to cut its head off. It led to a confessional by Natalie: “You always need to be pulling your weight, you always need to be doing what you need to do to maintain your position. All I’ve done since I’ve been here is keep my head down and work…I don’t feel that Chet wants to help out and carry his weight. Honestly dude, either pick it up or go home.” Mikey and Jason shared her way of thinking, with Mikey saying that 2 o’clock was Chet’s bed time and Jason saying his mom would spank him if he did that. Mikey had a confessional: “Chet is weak…He’s not in this game right now. He’s a physical and mental liability and he’s horrible for morale around camp.” The camera was proving Mikey’s point. In Malakal, Eliza was feeling poorly and James was trying to see what was wrong and how to help. Eliza, in confessional: “I feel really sick…I feel like I’m probably the next to go if we lose another immunity challenge because my tribe thinks I’m weak and being sick doesn’t help that.” James wasn’t so compassionate when he started talking with Ozzy about how stupid they had been not to vote Eliza out. James told us: “Last night, tribal council was kinda rough because I’m all about keeping the strongest people. We kept one of the weakest girls, Eliza, and she’s sick right now. She’s on the beach, shivering and about to pass out. But being that Cirie was all hell-bent on getting Yau Man out, we kinda folded to her will which was a big mistake.” James was still aggravated back in the cave. Even if Eliza was sitting within ear-shot, he didn’t care: “I know you’re sitting right there. But you’re about to die.” Eliza explained she was taking it easy so she could perform in the challenge. Eliza, after promising she’d do better in the next challenge than Yau would have, spoke in confessional: “After they found out that I was sick, right to my face Ozzy and James said OH! We should have voted you out last night…That made me feel like crap.” Eliza was telling them they weren’t motivating her to try her best. James was amused that Eliza was sick and had an attitude. Eliza’s confessional went on: “I hate these people. I do. I mean, I almost hope that they get sicker than I am and have to be removed from the game.” James was still laughing. The Challenge - Dolphin Boy: In true fan fashion, Airai was surprised to see that Yau Man had been eliminated. Apparently speaking for the fans, both on the show and at home, Kathy expressed the general feeling: “No way.” The challenge was another demonstration of Ozzy’s ability to outhink the challenge and give his team a huge lead. For comments, I noted these from Jeff during the swimming part of the challenge: - “Ozzy’s strategy starting to pay off.” (Note the use of the word strategy, not skills) - “Favorites are on the move. The favorites have a big lead thanks to Ozzy’s strategy.” (The look of despair on both Alexis and Natalie’s face showed just how bad they were beaten.) There was also this from Joel: “Jason, you know what Ozzy’s doing, right?” (kicking his @ss was what Ozzy was doing!) During the puzzle, this from James was amusing: “Triumphant…would that be a word?” And after solving it, he went on: “If I come up with the damn puzzle...Come ‘on! How about that! Ha! Ha!” Act III – Look at This! A melancholic piano accompanied Airai’s walk back to camp and Joel’s confessional: “We lost our challenge today. It’s always a bummer to lose a challenge. Malakal’s won every reward challenge. They’ve got 4 freakin’ chicken now and eggs and everything else. They’re living a life of luxury out here compared to what we’ve got, which is jack squat.” Alexis spoke to her tribe as a fan: “Ozzy’s insane! He’s, hands down, the best physical competitor in survivor history.” Erik didn’t look too pleased to hear that! Alexis went on: “Man! I was like jealous of Kathy. She’s eating better than we’ve eaten in the last 9 days.” Erik reacted in confessional: “Kathy is a weak person. The other team sees this by the way Kathy is. I’m pretty confident she’s not looking for that idol right now. She’s probably curled up in the foetal position just trying to stay alive.” Exile Island – Portraits: A Fan: Kathy was impressed by Ozzy: “I love meeting the favorites. I wish I was on their tribe. Cirie, Ami and now Ozzy!” She was learning from them but she went on: “I don’t care about the immunity idol. I mean I’ve done that, been there. I don’t feel like doing it any more” A Player: Ozzy said he was going to look for clams but he told us: “KB, my partner from the Airai tribe, is so disheartened that she doesn’t even want to look for the idol. So I told her I was going to go look for some food and hopefully she’s making a fire.” We saw him plunging off the tower to dramatic music. Even without the previews, we would have known what was coming next. Ozzy went on: “I don’t know if I’ll find the idol today but at least, I’ll get a little closer. I found two clues so I’m a little bit on a roll, there’s not that much sunlight left and I want to see if I can find it before the sun goes down…If I could find the idol, that would make things a lot easier. There’s a lot of guys out there that want to beat me. It’s really key that I find the idol.” The music changed to a lighter theme as Ozzy exclaimed: “I found the idol, I found the idol! This changes the game so much. I can relax a little bit. Now it’s just a question of being sly enough to hide it in my hat and sneak it back in my bag without her seeing it.” That wasn’t a problem as Kathy was presented as being oblivious to everything around her. A snake was shown as Ozzy went to work on making a fake idol: “Taking a lesson from Yau Man in Fiji, I’m just going to try and fashion some sort of fake idol and make it look semi-professional.” Kathy interrupted, disappointed that Ozzy hadn’t found anything more valuable than a starfish! Ozzy showed us his work: “This is the immunity idol. God! I hope someone finds it and tries to play it. I’m going to wrap it in that cloth I found it in and hide it in the exact same place. It’s worth a shot, I think it will work. It can draw people off the trail a little bit. It can do some good…or some bad.” Act IV – A Discussion Cirie and Eliza were talking to Charlie the chicken who, as Eliza said: “might be going to the slaughterhouse today.” She added: “I might be too, so I know how you’re feeling, buddy.” Trying to stave off elimination, Eliza went for a walk in the woods with Parvati. Eliza wanted to know who Parvati would be voting for but the Cook Islands’ player was noncommittal. Eliza made a promise to Parvati: “I’m telling you that I will be loyal to you till the end and I don’t think that Jonathan can make you that promise.” Interestingly, the camera was only on Parvati during that sentence, as if underlying that she was in charge. Parvati countered: “Jonathan will make that promise and he won’t keep it.” Eliza had a confessional just as a smiling Jonathan was seen approaching: “I love that Jonathan is pissing people off and also, he’s somebody who they know they can’t trust. So, I’m hoping that they realize that he’s a much more dangerous person to keep around because of the ease with which he would flip.” Jonathan shared his thoughts afterwards: “Eliza and Parvati were talking and I overtook them. What I heard was: ‘Get rid of Jonathan. I don’t think that he really likes you. He’s told me that he wants to…’ She’ll say anything that she needs to say and it’s so painful to watch somebody on the outside who’s trying to get back on the inside. I totally understand and I feel sorry for her.” Saying that Jonathan was paranoïd, Parvati asked if they all had an alliance in the beginning. Eliza had to admit she had even if he wasn’t exactly Mr. Trustworthy. An amused Parvati had a confessional: “Eliza’s trying to stay in the game, she’s trying to save her butt right now so she’s trying to sell out Jonathan, throwing him under the bus. I’d say that, if we were going to tribal council tonight, Eliza would be going home. So yeah! She should be saying anything she can to save herself right now.” The Immunity Challenge – The Value of Experience: Ozzy started off by telling Jeff that finding the idol was a lot tougher than he thought. During the challenge, we heard Jeff saying: - “It will take teamwork to win this challenge.” - “Fans falling further behind…Fans having trouble making any sense of this course.” - “Experience clearly paying off for the Favorites, it’s not even close.” The Final Act – Fracture: Back in Airai, the same instruments as in their opening scene were playing a similar melody but without the upbeat rhythm heard earlier. This was a defeated tribe and things were soon to get worse. Mikey had the first confessional: “The crew of misfits, which is Airai, lost again…We got some talent. I don’t know what Joel has up his sleeve. He backstabbed me earlier in the game…My goal is to pretend I’m Joel’s ally and vote Chet out. I’ll keep Joel around for as long as I can until right before the merge and then cut his head off.” Mikey talked to Joel about giving a little trust to get a little trust and voting off Chet, making him secure with how Joel was playing. Tracy had other plans as she talked with Kathy and a despondent Chet in their private little shelter. Tracy explained in confessional: “Things are very crazy. I think it’s very possible that Chet can go home tonight. Chet could go home just like that. So Chet’s gone, that’s one of my votes, then Kathy and that’s two then I’ll be next… I may not have a lot of power in this tribe but I’ll tell you this much; I’m gonna go down with a fight. Why not?” Indeed, she ‘bullied’ the bully, Joel, who admitted they needed Mikey’s strength and that, along with Jason, Mikey was getting the tribe to vote out Chet. Tracy asked: “Why are you letting him call the shots right now? Yes, you’re letting him, absolutely dude, you’re rolling over. That’s crazy. You said you were going to get Mikey off a long time ago, here’s your opportunity. I don’t understand, I’m angry with you about it. I’m going to be honest with you. You’re freakin’ just following him right now – moo! - like a heard of cows down the road…Mike is going to take you down the next chance he gets and this is his next chance. Beware of that…I’m very intuitive… I see the writings on the wall…If one of us is gone, you’re done, we can’t help you anymore.” Tribal Council – An Execution: Jason told Jeff that, even if the tribes were now even, the Favorites had an advantage because of the 4 losses. Joel said that tribe strength was important: “The weaker the individuals are, the weaker we are as a team.” Chet admitted he hadn’t delivered in one challenge but had been alright in others. Mikey said he didn’t think Chet had the physical capacity to compete. Tracy interjected: “I didn’t compete, Chet didn’t compete and Kathy didn’t compete and they still lost. So tell me how you can take blame for that?” After an ackward silence, Mikey went back saying he wanted to vote out the weak. Erik commented: “It’s not about physical attributes in all these challenges. There’s more to it than that.” Joel agreed it’s not only about strength. Erik made a comment about running into a wall not being smart. Jason interrupted Jeff in mid-sentence before being sent to vote. He told his tribe and a startled Jeff: “I need to emphasize the importance of tonight’s vote in determining our future as a tribe. We have lost 4 out of 6 challenges so take a moment to think who we keep on the island” A gong sounded as Jeff read off the 4th vote against Mikey and Joel could only look away. Did the tribe make the right decision as Jeff wondered? For Joel, it may be troubling that Jason and especially Alexis didn’t vote with him. What do I think it all means? First, this episode was edited to show that, despite the division in Malakal that Jeff had noted after the previous tribal council, the Favorites were able to come together and show the needed strategy and teamwork to win both challenges, retaking the advantage. The Fans were shown even more fractured than they have ever been. If you add Jeff’s challenge comments with the different portraits observed, especially on Exile Island, I had the impression that this episode told us a Favorite would win the season. Let’s look at the Players: Natalie’s portrayal is matching her words. She’s kept her head down and is playing under the radar. There are no indicators that her elimination is imminent but nothing to point that she’ll have an impact in the game. Chet was once more the alternate vote option and therefore is Airai’s couterpart to Eliza. What he lacks, of course, is Eliza’s story. The previous time, we had the impression he wasn’t trying to fight to save himself, this time we had proof that he, in fact, didn’t care. His body is giving out and he is only a vote right now, a “Shawna”. That doesn’t take a player very far. Erik, with his talk at tribal council, is still presented as Joel’s sidekick. Note that his only confessional was about Kathy’s weaknesses but that at TC, he was defending players who didn’t have the physical attributes. Letting us hear Alexis saying that Ozzy is the superior player right in front of him was sort of ending the rivalry story arc. Erik lost so his own end should follow. Kathy is a fan and has remained a fan despite being on the show. That, and being the victim of the rigors of the game, make up her whole story. Even in an episode where she wasn’t subjected to nature’s assaults or her tribe’s votes, she fell victim to Ozzy’s trickery. The scene with the starfish that completed Kathleen’s portrait of the gullible player didn’t need to be shown. Added to her words of wanting to be on the Favorites’ tribe should have implications after the upcoming switch. We are being subtlely told that it wouldn’t be hard for Cirie, Ami or Ozzy to flip her over. If it were misdirection, it would have been harped on more. Alexis was relegated to the role of a fan in this episode, especially with her words about being jealous of Kathy and later being outside the loop of the voting majority. This episode has put some doubt on her longevity because her role had been to tell us about the tribe’s mood. Alexis lost that role, at least temporarily. Joel assumed it, probably making Airai much less likeable in the process. Since her main theme is about taking advantage of knowing the Favorites’ strategies, her story arc could have been put on hold until the tribal switch. She would need to show us her gameplan to regain consideration as a possible winner. Jason has been presented as a fan who loves the premise of the game, with his dream of being stranded on an island, but he doesn’t know how to apply strategy to it. Eliminating Mikey would have been a way for Airai to repair its fracture, one leader eliminating another, except Jason stepped up and declared himself the successor to Mikey with his interruption of Jeff. Seeing a startled Jeff was good television but I think the scene was mainly shown to let us know how deep the dissension remains in Airai. Joel has become the “Dumb Player”, the one who had power but let someone else decide for him. We had been shown that there was room for a temporary truce between the two big guys and we heard Joel say that without Mary, Mikey had lost his power. Now Joel let Tracy emerge as a new leader while Jason simply took over Mikey’s faction. Who is left in Joel’s corner? Erik and Natalie and that’s about it. That’s not a comfortable position going into a tribal switch. Tracy has earned the respect she desired but it came at the expense of tribal unity. She was impressive in the way she played Joel but now she’ll have to do the same with the veterans. If she falls short, she will have gone down fighting. It would explain her inconsistent portrayal. Tracy has only been seen when she revolves around the story. For long term players, the stars of the show, it would be the opposite, the story revolving around them. What concerns me about Tracy is that the camera left no doubt that Mikey was right and that Chet was done. Amanda is an observer. If only we’d hear her thoughts on what she sees, we’d have reason to think she has a future but even her love connection story has been put on hold. It’s almost as if, having made Ozzy a star, the editors want to keep her away from him! Amanda was more visible when she was blurred out! Ami has remained in the background. We only saw her as the ignitor of the opening conflict between Jonathan and Cirie. Ami’s vote against Cirie wasn’t really the story, it blew over as soon as it was brough up, with Ami explaining herself to Cirie. It had no apparent consequences as no one mentioned Ami as a possible target. Ami, herself, seems inconsequential. James is an interesting editing case. From what he said, James was right. Yau Man could be more valuable than Eliza and keeping her, especially now that she’s sick, is stupid. We had a glimpse of the compassionate James, who asked Eliza how she felt, taking her temperature like a caring parent and offering her food and water. We could even have been left with James’ happiness at solving the puzzle. So, with all that, why did it feel like James was wrong and the bad guy? The cave scene with him going on in front of Eliza was overkill. The point had been made when he was out in the ocean with Ozzy and Amanda so having us hear it again in the new setting made us see nothing else but James’ antagonism. The editor also let us hear James laughing at Eliza for being sick and having an attitude. That laughter continued even after Eliza had completed her confessional. Interestingly, I think it made many forget that Eliza blamed both James and Ozzy, leaving only James as the bad guy. James may not get the last laugh since avoiding blindsides hasn’t been exactly his specialty. Cirie didn’t take any chariot ride in this episode. After two huge episodes, it was expected to see her fall into the background in this one. Her story wasn’t advanced but she served to advance Jonathan’s and Malakal’s. Now that everyone knows those two don’t trust each other, is that story done as she said it was? For one episode it was, as Malakal showed good teamwork. Of course, all the discussion of how stupid the previous vote was didn’t reflect very well on Cirie’s future prospects. Jonathan was wrong during the previous tribal council: Malakal wasn’t hopelessly divided even if it had voted the way Cirie wanted. Jonathan is being presented as an agent provocateur, one who sneaks up on people to disrupt strategy discussions and confronts his opponents. Cirie wasn’t talking to him but he was there and he took his shot. He could be seen as the underdog right now, the one outside the loop but it still is Eliza that is the target and Jonathan that is the dangerous one, the one you know will break every promise. With his confessional about Cirie seeing a chance and taking it at HIS expense and of Eliza being painful to watch in her sorry attempts at fighting back, we see that Jonathan will never be portrayed as an underdog. He’s criticizing people for doing what he tried to do the first time when he should be using the lessons learned from those mistakes. Eliza has a very interesting story. Even the fans thought she’d be the target of elimination. Is it written on her forehead? Maybe I was wrong in seeing her only continuing Vanuatu’s story. Maybe she is improving on that story as she was seen chilling out in the cave despite the talks about her. Has Eliza learned, as she heard Twila’s admonishment? This fighter should avoid Charlie the Chicken’s fate and live to see a few more days. Her stare at Cirie, as seen in the recap, and her confrontation with James indicate which two players she could surprisingly outlast. There are many more dangerous players to catch up to, however. Parvati had an important scene before the immunity challenge. Important in the fact that it was totally unnecessary. Everyone already knew that Eliza was a target. Everybody knew that Jonathan wasn’t to be trusted and had the habit of walking in on conversations. That scene wasn’t there to show any of that, especially since Malakal wasn’t going to tribal council and won’t even be going there again in that form. Even if Parvati, Jonathan and Eliza wind up on the same tribe, there would have been plenty of time to develop the voting strategies next week. Why was that scene shown? It showed Parvati as a player. Eliza thought Jonathan couldn’t make any promises, Parvati knew he would be making promises only to break them. Eliza promised loyalty to the end, Parvati didn’t drop her guard and still had her on her radar. Jonathan surprised them by hearing their talks. Parvati knows he’s simply being paranoïd. Parvati has all the signs of an end game player. Someone else was portrayed as a real player and that was Ozzy. Hearing Alexis and Kathy praising him could mean they either align with him after the switch…or they vote for him as Sole Survivor. His Exile Island portrayal was very strong. After hearing Kathy say she was done trying to look for the idol, we didn’t need to hear Ozzy’s trickery of going for food instead of the idol. We also didn’t need to hear him teach Kathy survivor skills or see him fooling her when he was carving the fake idol. There were nice developments to Ozzy’s character during that expedition. Enough to make him our victor? The key will be to see if his portrayal now focuses only on having the idol or if he continues to be developed as a character. If it were a race, I’d say Ozzy has the lead right now and only Parvati has maintained the pace while others are trying to make up ground, pedaling hard on their little bikes.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-02-08, 08:13 AM (EST) 60. "RE: Episode Four Editing" LAST EDITED ON 03-02-08 AT 08:49 AM (EST) AS always, Veruca and michel, you never disappoint. I love reading your assessments and you always enlighten me to so much. I agree with alot of your posts. I will add a few things that I noticed, and a few feelings that were evoked in me as I was watching. The recap and the misery that is Airai, while the conflict between Cirie and Jonathan remains. I definately got villain vibes for Cirie in this particular episode. I felt them heavily last episode when Yau Man was booted, and it did evoke some anger with her. That is clearly seen with Jonathan's verbal assault on her. But, as a rational person I thought Cirie was correct in her assessment of Jonathan, that he couldn't make her vote his way and he was mad. But I also thought Jonathan's confessional was dead on as well. Then with the feelings that James expressed over and over, that they made a bad choice all because of the demanding, Cirie. He was voicing our anger as well and I don't know if these feelings will come back to bite Cirie later. Will this big power play that she made last week be the beginning of her demise? Back at the Fans camp, the narrator, Joel, has the first confessional. I see him as a clear narrator now, and that, imo, doesn't bode well for his longevity. I see him getting no farther than mid game at best. Interesting that he seemed out of the loop when hearing the older folks discussing Eliza or YM as the boot. Back at Malakal with the little sick, Eliza. I see her total game in the exact same way as her game in Vanuatu. Being the target from day one and narrowly missing every time she goes to TC. I still think her luck will run out as she is still narrating alot. While I was sympathetic to her situation, as one that also values strength in the early game, I can relate more to James perspective, but I did feel that James came across as arrogant and stupid for chiding her to her face. He's stirring up trouble when he doesn't have to, a stupid move in a social game. Clearly I don't think James has hardly any social skills. As you may notice, I found these scenes to be more instigated by James, and focused on him as the aggressor. I felt that Ozzy was in it because James was leading him that way. Is that because I am such an Ozzy fan, I don't know. It could have colored my opinion. Definately Eliza's last confessional here of "I almost hope that they get sicker then I am and have to be removed from the game", as foreshadowing....YIKES... The RC: Clearly this was about Ozzy's strategy more than his swimming abilities, but let's face it, the latter is just phenomenal! Ozzy is indeed using his brain and he single-handedly won the challenge...still has that target on his back, in a big bold bullseye. Will he be using his brain to avoid the boot as well? I sure hope he can. James, solving the puzzle...that was GREAT! I loved that Parvati came and patted him on the chest at the end and she said, something like, "Mr. Smarty Pants"...cute, flirty, keeping her pawn happy... At Airai, again it's Joel that comments, then Alexis is noting the wonderful Ozzy. I definately am getting vibes that somewhere down the road these two could indeed become allies, Ozzy and Alexis. Don't know if it will be sooner or later, but with Ozzy's note of the nice girl last week, and then this comment this week.... Definately agree that with Alexis' comment on Ozzy with Erik right there, ends the rivalry between Ozzy and Erik. We all know who the superior challenger is...might I add a little HA here...at least that's the way I felt as I watched... Eliza appealing to Parv to not vote her out...same story here for Eliza. Interesting that she is appealing to Parv, which definately makes her a "power player" in my eyes. I had to think, would she have appealed to Ozzy too if he were not off on EI? I don't know....she "hates" him. Exile Island: A show case for Ozzy again using his brain. He was diligent, motivated, and capable...he outwitted, and he was indeed, TRIUMPHANT...had to use that word As for Kathy, clearly she is JUST a fan of the favorites...she is definately not a "player" in this game, but someone along for a ride, a journey...she will NOT be a winner. No doubt about it though, Ozzy is playing this game to win, and the editors love him. Was his last comments about hoping that someone else will find and use the fake idol prophetic, foreshadowing??? Will be fun to watch. With Ozzy's confessional regarding, "It's key that I find the idol as the guys all want to beat me", I thought to myself, yes, you are right, the guys all do want to beat you, but DON'T forget that the GIRLS want to beat you too!!!! Then to the IC and the Favorites pull it all together with GREAT teamwork to win the challenge handily! YEAH! Eliza escapes demise once again! Interesting hugging seen with Jonathan hugging Cirie and then a closing hug of Ozzy and Jonathan! Eliza has handed the idol once again, to symbolize her longevity at least for this episode, and again Ozzy seen kissing it. Then the drama at Airai, which I think VS and Michel have adequately covered. Definately loved how easily Tracy was able to sway the egocentric Joel... I too am feeling as though the winner will be a favorite! I think this is a great series so far! As michel noted, and VS has stated before, Kathy and Alexis were indeed heard talking about Ozzy very positively, and it's always a good sign when other survivors are talking about another...bodes well!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

citywitch 184 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-02-08, 10:18 AM (EST) 61. "RE: Episode Four Editing" Veruca, michel & flowerpower: I LOVE reading your assessments, you are so observant & brilliant! What a great way to spend Sunday mornings, a couple cups of coffee & discovering the Survivor behind Survivor. If I were a betting woman, based on the editing (& your astute observances) to date, my money would be on Ozzy & Parvati.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

easilydistracted 45 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-02-08, 10:06 PM (EST) 62. "Question about the Ozzy edit" I'm trying to not be too biased and was feeling rather confident in the following theory until Jeff's "Ozzy's strategy is working" comment during the RC. FP commented on Ozzy's quote about beating the guys whereas Parvati wants to win regardless of gender of the otehr players. Jason, Erik, Chet(?) and in this week's preview, Joel, all seem to be competing against Ozzy. Using editing cues and quotes is anybody else thinking Ozzy will come out the victor against the guys and may well be the last guy in the game, but that the F3 is likely to be Parvati, Cerie, and Alexis or Amanda with Parvati as the winner? Maybe we need an Ozzy editing thread...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-07-08, 01:09 AM (EST) 64. "Episode 5" I'll jump in first this time - I took notes and impressions as I watched the show this time... Recap Joanthon talks about the Favs dominating Ozzy idol finding/faking shown Natalie talks about Chet's laziness Joel vs. Mikey Tracy browbeating Joel into voting against Mikey Jason's useless plee at tribal Mikey sent home After tribal at the Fans Music was very sad, Jason shown alone in the dark. Jason convinced the team made the wrong decision. Tracy and Chet planning on targeting Jason next. At Favs Playful music, Humorous chicken scene. Ozzy confides in James, Amanda and Pavarti about the idol - Amanda thinks they are a "powerhouse" - they make a point of not telling Cirie... but Pavarti wasn't shown being told - why not? The tribe switch - SURPRISE Ozzy says "Oh Sh_t"(it's even blurred out to hide that) - oops let the cat out of the bag too soon... now people on the other team know he has the idol. We see a shot of Alexis hugging Natalie. Ozzy and Natalie get to pick tribes - Natalie goes first: Natalie-James-Alexis-Jonathon-Jason-Pavarti-Kathy-Eliza Ozzy-Joel-Amanda-Eric-Ami-Tracy-Cirie-Chet Joel is heard to complain about Chet. Reward Challenge Eric/Ozzy chase Kathy/Natalie - Ozzy gets the flag Pav/Eliza chase Chet/Joel - Eliza gets the flag, Pavarti gets hurt, Jeff says "Eliza leading Pavarti" Ami/Amanda vs. Jason/James -Ami gets the flag?, Ami and Jason get hurt Alexis/Jonathon vs. Cire/Tracy - Alexis gets the flag, Jonathon gets seriously hurt Pav/Eliza vs. Chet/Joel - Chet gets hurt, Joel does not get the flag Airai wins a feast - no one goes to exile At new Malakal Joel sees the irony of ending up with Chet but maybe an expendable player is a good thing to have. Eric shows his man crush on Ozzy. Ozzy says "we have all we need to win"/great camp/food - but questions whether they will win. Chet sees what could be coming - chickens picking on, then killing the weak one. At Airai Eliza says camp is a disaster - "we have nothing" Alexis shown being a fan/happy with tribe James - surprised the fans are still alive Jonathon - medics sew up the gimp At Malakal Heroic music Ozzy getting fish - Eric admiting that he can't compete against him. Eric witnesses the two "superpowers" negotiating 1st Chet, then Cirie, then Kathy will get voted out. At Airai Jonathon leads the rebuilding - they work well together and build a shelter in an hour! Alexis says the Favs have invaluable experience. Natalie - praises their speed and smarts. At Malakal Amanda catchs a 4 ft shark (this is so cute) Ozzy talks about how attractive that makes her to a guy like him... Everyone agrees it's the best they have eaten since they gotten on the island. Immunity Challenge James "coming up short" again and again Joel missing completely again and again Even Alexis shown missing Ozzy, Tracy, Jonathon, Eric, Jason, Eliza shown breaking the tiles Joel argues with Chet managing to lose the huge lead they had. Jonathon helps Eliza see the "big picture"and Airai wins. Who's gonna go at Malakal? Joel and Eric lobby for Chet's ouster. Cirie gets wind of it and doesn't want "weak" players out b/c she is one of the weak players and talks with Chet/Tracey, then Ozzy and Amanda. Ozzy says "we need to decide which way this tribe is going to go" - strength or ... And Joel goes packing - he totally didn't see it coming - it was a great ending to his story. All of us cheered in the room - he really did have a successful evil edit! Next week: Jason finds the fake idol (we know he has already come in 2nd to Ozzy again) Jonathon may have a leg infection that takes him out of the game... a sad day for us Jonathon fans. In summary It seems that the short term plan of acting in own interests vs. the tribe did not pay off for Joel. Did anyone else (Cirie) or is anyone else (Malakal) going to make that mistake? Airai: It seemed like Eliza was getting alot more air time and Pavarti got the weak/injury edit (making Eliza's wish partially come true). Fans were relagated to Fav worship comments. If Jonathon leaves next week due to injury it could put the fans in control if Kathy sides with them. However Kathy had the least amount of screen/talking and all of the Favs that she was with at Exile island are on the other team (Ami, Ozzy, Cirie). Malakal: There was alot of obvious Ozzy worship going on. I see Ozzy & Cirie as getting the most strategic edits in this episode. Again Cirie was able to convince the others to vote her way, but will it cost the team in the long run? Will Ozzy regret telling James, Pavarti and Amanda about the idol? Eric, Chet and Tracey will most likely be the next out because I think the Favs will stay together for awhile, although Ami again had the least screen/talking time.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

electropoprebel 27 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-07-08, 06:16 PM (EST) 67. "RE: Episode 5" I posted on a different topic about the Ozzy edit. Basically, I think in last night's episode we were given some foreshadowing on Ozzy's downfall. In a confessional he talked about NOT telling anyone about the Idol, which would have been smart, but then he went and told 3 people. Then he talked about how he can really trust Amanda, Parvati and James, setting us up for his 'blindside' down the road.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

television 226 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 03-07-08, 08:01 PM (EST) 68. "RE: Episode 5" I saw that part and thought it was notable and contradictory too, but when I went back and watched again he actually said he didn't think he was going to SHOW anybody the idol, but that he trusted James et al, so he'd TELL them he had it. I don't know if this makes a difference in the overall tone of setting him up as too trusting, but I thought it was an important distinction, and added more to the "Ozzy as a tactician" edit than anything else. But now I'm not so sure, now that I've come here...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

electropoprebel 27 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-07-08, 09:20 PM (EST) 69. "RE: Episode 5" Also, when Cirie was strategizing with Amanda and Ozzy, we saw a lot less arguement from Ozzy than we did previously with the YaoMan boot. Could be because there was less arguement, or to add question to the boot, but it gave the viewer MORE reason beleive Cirie is pulling the strings. That coupled with her smirks at Tribal Council. Ozzy and Cirie more than anyone to me, seem to be getting edited for a stay very late in the game.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-07-08, 09:35 PM (EST) 70. "RE: Episode 5" >We see a shot of Alexis hugging Natalie. > >Ozzy and Natalie get to pick tribes - Natalie goes first: > >Natalie-James-Alexis-Jonathon-Jason-Pavarti-Kathy-Eliza >Alexis says the Favs have invaluable experience. >Natalie - praises their speed and smarts. There seems to be a lot of Alexis-Natalie groupings in this episode. Yet we've seen very little of either or what their thoughts are on the whole. My feeling is that these two are going to be major players down the road as their stories are nowhere close to being played out, but we're getting hints that their stories could be intertwined as we go further into the game.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-08-08, 07:03 AM (EST) 71. "Alexis and Natalie" Joel's post-boot interview with Webby has confirmed that Alexis and Natalie have something going on. Yet we haven't been shown this in the show other than the hints provided to us in the last episode. This could be an interesting tidbit to watch for, editing-wise, as we go further into the game. Who are Alexis and Natalie going to align with after the merge?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Erika221 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-09-08, 05:59 PM (EST) 76. "RE: Episode 5" LAST EDITED ON 03-16-08 AT 05:51 AM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 03-09-08 AT 06:00 PM (EST) You guys are so excellent with your editing assessments that I find myself hesistant to add any input, but for the sake of making myself look like a complete clown, I wanted to weigh in with some editing things that stuck out in my mind. - Cirie is shown saying about the kicking of the chicken: I am used to it since I am involved in surgeries, but I just don't want to see a dead, bloody, flapping chicken. What I found of particular interest (and perhaps I am reading far too much into this) - Cirie is shown not to want to get her hands dirty. She admits she is used to such sights, but doesn't want to see it. For me this could foreshadow how she might attempt to take out Ozzy/James. She may just plant the seeds of the boot, but will not get blamed for it since she doesn't like to see 'kill' ---> I think this bodes really well for Cirie and unfortunately not so well for Ozzy and James Though, she allowed James and Ozzy to make the kill, so could it be that Cirie dumps the gals for James/Ozzy? I don't know. 2nd Item of particular interest: Ozzy trusts James, thinks he can trust Amanda and clearly has the most trust in Parvati. He told them about the idol Makes me think though that Parvati is the least threatening to Ozzy's plan and she may in fact be the biggest threat to his stay in the game. A little foreshadowing of possible irony down the road? #3 Overall the ineptitude of the fans is again played up this episode as we see their camp in total disarray and the water putting out their fire was a clear picture of this. The mere fact that the favorites were able to straighten out the camp in an afternoon leads me to think that this game will be won by a favorite - their previous experience will be the key to why one of the favs may beat a fan in the finals...a more seasoned favorite will know how to talk to a jury. That's all You guys do great stuff though - so I'll leave you to it and continue to read your thoughts   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-08-08, 04:26 PM (EST) 72. "Post Episode 5 Commentary" LAST EDITED ON 03-09-08 AT 12:18 PM (EST) Thanks Mocha for starting off this week. Great observations! I love to follow VS and Michel as they are just so thorough, especially with the dialogue and visuals...but alas, today we have 15 inches of snow and I am ready to go... I wanted to preface my observations with a warning...I know that I am somewhat tainted as I am not an impartial viewer, as I am sure that most of us are. It's hard not to bring feelings for previous players in to this game. With that in mind, you all know that I am an Ozzy fan, but I also think that EPMB is an Ozzy fan as well. Sometimes I think it makes it harder on us Ozzy fans, as it makes us question the genuine edit vs. the hero edit that some of the produceers may have for the "Ozzy" types. With that said, I will continue... Recap: Favs win Reward, they continue to dominate...Ozzy finds the idol and replaces it with a fake one as a decoy....At Airai, Chet's laziness drags down the tribe. After IC, there is a shot of Ozzy, FAVs win, Chet was the obvious target but in order to save her alliance-mate, Tracy called Joel out...at TC Jason made a plea to keep the tribe strong..."We have lost 4 of 6 challenges, think about who we keep and who we let go--". In the end, Joel got rid of his biggest rival and Mikey B was voted out. New episode begins: AS the Airai tribe returns to camp after TC, we here someone say good night and Jason is seen at the fire, "At TC I was hoping our tribe would make the right decision and vote out the weakest, Chet. It didn't happen..." The next morning still at camp Jason continues..."I'm definately bummed Mikey's gone. We need a physically strong tribe. I have a bad feeling we are going to keep losing, losing and losing. This is not the tribe I want to be on"...definately, foreshadowing....don't worry Jason, your dreams will soon be coming true... Then there is a shot of Tracy and Chet walking along a path, obviously the day after TC...Tracy says, "Another one bites the dust, it wasn't us!", Chet adds..."The outcasts are prevailing" and Tracy adds, "...for now". Chet then notes "Jason's next....sorry dude"...a definate theme here of the weak picking off the stronger tribemates....a theme that hits us over the head within this episode... At Malakal: We have happy music and Cirie talking to the rooster..."Oh Charlie....Everybody's more excited to eat Charlie, Ozzy's going to kill the chicken, as we see shots of Ami with James and Ozzy carrying the chicken to slaughter, Ozzy is unemotional with James/Ami, while Cirie/Parv/Amanda are all emotional over the demise of the chicken....hmmmmm keeping emotions out of the game vs. emotional playing here...food for thought? Cirie continues, "I work in surgery, I just don't want to see a dead, bloody, flapping chicken everywhere!" Then Ozzy chops the head off, and the girls scream and run for the water, Amanda notes to Parv, "Poor Charlie", and Parvati repeats it, "Poor Charlie"... Then it cuts to a confessional by Ozzy..."After the challenge I went to EI, After the chicken I was slick enough to hide the II before anyone could expect me back....I don't think I am going to show anyone, but I know that I can totally trust James", then we see Ozzy telling James he has the idol, and James gives him a hug, and Ozzy tells him not to tell anyone....then Ozzy continues, and says I "think" I can trust Amanda, and I KNOW I can trust Parvati... Very, very interesting "pecking order", don't you think? Maybe Ozzy trusts James more than he does the girls, I don't know....interesting that he "thinks" he can trust Amanda, I am glad if he is guarded with her, but I still don't know. Amanda in confessional tells us, "Ozzy told me he had the idol, he told me, James and Parvati...", then we hear her say, "I am so proud of you", like the dutiful girlfriend that she is, and then she asks if he is going to tell Cirie, which he replies, an emphatic, NO. Ozzy doesn't trust Cirie...that could be a good thing, I am thinking...Amanda finishes her confessional with, "It's in our little 4 clique, we are a little powerhouse right now, it's gonna stay in our little 4 clique"... Hmmm, makes me question if it will or it won't after this? Clearly, Amanda is feeling more confident. I have to say I was severly disappointed that he chose to tell anyone at this point...I was screaming, no don't do it....Ozzy is clearly a very trusting individual and it scares me. He is very loyal, we know this, and now he is trusting...somehow this makes him VULNERABLE....Will this be the start of his demise? Then we cut to the RC..."Come on in guys...Mikey B voted out at the last TC. After 12 days of competing it's time you got to know each other...drop your buffs"... Cut to Ozzy saying in a blurr..."OH SH*T"...Favs look bummed, Fans look like they are rejoicing...Jeff goes on to say, pick a stone, one with the purple stone will be the picker/leader, please don't look at them, and the one with the orange stone will be the leader of nuAirai tribe...turn them over...Ozzy, leader of the nuMalakal tribe.........He and I are both thinking THANK GOD...talk about biggest blunders ever, he could have lost his II with this swap, sure hope he is more careful in the future!!!! Natalie is the leader of the nuAirai tribe.... Jeff instructs them that they can choose either sex but it must be a person from the opposite tribe, Natalie picks first, "James", as James walks over to her, he says, "Hey baby", as only James can I noted that when James was walking over to Natalie, the camera pans in on Ozzy. Then Ozzy chooses Troy...who?, Troy, Joel, Jiffy notes that the strongest are the first picks....note how again it seems that strength is being valued over weakness, clearly evident with James as the first pick on down to Chet as the default pick...When Joel picked Amanda, Ozzy nodded, and Amanda hugs Joel and pats Ozzy on the arm. We see Alexis come and hug James, while he just stands there...fan reaction perhaps?, and then Jason notes "Poverty" and they all laugh...Eric picks Ami and when she approaches he says "good to meet you", and then we here Joel say "Oh my God" when Chet is left on his tribe...clearly noting his disgust for the weak, Chet. When Parvati is picked for nuAirai, camera pans in on James, and he looks up and smiles. Jiffy says, "You are no longer Fans vs. Favs but Malakal vs. Airai. Let's start the RC...Pairs will be harnessed together, one pair chases another pair, if you successfully get their flag you win the point for your tribe, if you don't get the flag, the other tribe gets the point. First tribe to get 3 points will win, you are playing for a home bar-b-que of steaks, veggies, wine, and spices, additionally there will be no EI so you can get to know each other. "First up: Ozzy and Erik chase Kathy and Natalie...Ozzy and Erik cut right through the course, Ozzy grabs Kathy's flag, 1 point Malakal." "Then Parvati and Eliza chase Chet and Joel, Eliza getting close, drags Parvati, Eliza grabs the flag, You alright?", Parv responds, "I got a fat lip"...Malakal 1, Airai 1. "Amy and Amanda trying to cathc James and Jason, Ami is hurt but still goes on, Ami has Jason's flag...Malakal 2, Airai 1" "Penner/Alexis out of the gate quickly toward Cirie/Tracy...Alexis gets the flag, we are tied, 2 - 2." "Chet/Joel must catch Parvati and Eliza to win Reward, Chet takes a hard fall, Joel is getting frustrated, Airai wins Reward!!" Then we see a sagging Chet say to Joel, "I hit my head", and Joel replies, "I don't care", and Chet says, "I know"...at the end of the challenge Chet is seen cowaring, and there is a shot to the disappointed, Ozzy looking down... Then to Camp Malakal as they approach the camp...Ozzy states, "Welcome to your new home", and Cirie notes we have chickens, Joel tells Cirie that he is "decompressing", and then in confessional, "Maybe it's poetic justice, choose to get rid of Mikey and not Chet, but who knows, ultimately perhaps it's good to have someone expendable..." Joel, having some remorse, or regret over his decision to not boot, Chet, the weakest over Mikey, the stronger...So this is ironic....we hear the theme of the show, keep the strength, yet what do they do, they boot the strength and now there is regret...hmmmm??? Then Ami leads them into the cave and the fans are in AWE...the high life, here is our bed, here it's really dry, blah, blah, blah, Joel notes that they were living the High life!....Ozzy says in his optimistic tone..."It was just one meal, we WILL be eating here....", then we have Ozzy in confessional..."We have the advantage, we are at Malakal beach, We have all the things to be a strong tribe, It's just a question of are we going to be a strong tribe....Chet, he's like a sack of potatoes, I don't see him as a competitor at all, he freakin gave up in the challenge - I don't know what's going on with that dude, but he needs to go...." Clearly Ozzy is voicing his philosophy, keep strong, get rid of the weak....that definately was his battle cry in his last season.... Then we have starstruck Erik noting, "I am so excited to be here - I got to meet Ozzy today!!!" Then we see Chet at the chicken coop, noting that chickens have a pecking order, and they peck the weakest one to death, just like the game of survivor....or is it? Back at camp Airai, there is serious admiration of the fans as well...Eliza, the new Airai narrator, tells us that "Airai camp is pretty much a disaster. At Malakal we had everything - here we have nothing"...James notes, "the waters are washing away the fire," as just before we see them cooking their steak and the surf comes in and takes out the fire....James continues, "I'm amazed that they are still alive, they should be dead, poor things. They're a bunch of ding bats!" Sympathy from James...will he underestimate them later? Jonathan notes that he found a stick that went into his muscle at the challenge, it hurts, I'm gimping around, painfully sore...cut to the medics arriving at night, and Jonathan asks them, "It's not too late to close it is it?", as we see them draw up the local anesthetic and inject him, as he exclaims, "D*mn It"!!! Which appropriately sums up the whole disaster to me....it makes me furious that they are all getting hurt out here! Jonathan continues about "the lovely Dr. that came and cleaned out the wound left him with 3 stitches and a painful leg - could be an infection that works down toward the joint in my knee, let's hope it doesn't get worse". Definately setting it up to indeed get worse...which really makes me angry for Jonathan, and sad... Next day, we start at Malakal with Ozzy fishing underwater and Erik narrating..."Ozzy is amazing, he's a natural in the water, he was born that way, I can't compete with him, he's amazing!!!" So, right out of Erik's mouth, he can't compete with Ozzy, so Ozzy will outlast Erik... Then Ozzy, Joel, Chet return with the boat and Ozzy and Joel start to discuss..."So, what are you thinking?" Ozzy replies, "Chet, Cirie, Tracy"...Joel notes, "If you are willing to get rid of Cirie first I'll be with you... Erik notes that he is watching Joel and Ozzy, the two superpowers discussing terms, Joel notes, "Four and Four, first one to go will be down to 3, can we trust each other somewhere?? Either a fan swings a fav to teir side, or a fav swings a fna to their side, somebodies going to have to flip..." Day 14 at Airai: Shot of Jonathan in charge, in the leader role...Alexis tells us that thier first priority is to find a new shelter, and notes that they have 4 new people to direct us, "it's unbelievable!" Natalie adds, "The new members of Airai are BRILLIANT!" Lots of praise and admiration for the Favs from the fans...Lots of shots of Jonathan taking the lead in a very very positive light! A tribute to Jonathan and his injury perhaps, and what is likely to happen a la the previews....his removal. Then Alexis notes to James, "I know you miss your cave but I can't tell you how nice it is for us...", James responds, "Yea, I understand that!" Back at Malakal...We here the group exclaiming, "OH MY GOD!", as we see Amanda dragging a big fish, "what is that?", she responds, "shark". Then they all start screaming for Ozzy...(reminded me that perhaps they see him in a paternal light, or definately they were looking for his approval, they were looking to make him happy...was this just the fans that are in awe of him, or are they all like that?) First we see Erik, lifting it up and approving, then we see Joel, guessing that it's 35-40 pounds, and then finally Ozzy with it, as he exclaims, "Oh my God!" in a very positive way....a gushing Amanda in confessinal exclaims, we don't have any sharks in Montana! or something to that effect! Ozzy in confessional notes that was so attractive to a guy like him! Ozzy noting his approval. Then we see them eating the prized shark and noting how much better it is than any beefsteak, and Ozzy tells them that it's the best meal they have had yet too, and that makes Joel feel better...then the scene is followed by another confessional by Ozzy..."That was an amazing meal, now we just want to kick a$$, we want to start winning!" Again we here Ozzy's battlecry, stay strong and win, but will they? IC, back up for grabs! Jeff explains the challenge, first up, Ozzy takes a target out, and it ensues...Chet is the caller, while Eliza is the caller. Notably, Jonathan talks trash throughout the challenge and Jeff gives it right back to him, Jonathan tells Eliza to look "at the big picture", and sure enough, Airai wins. Joel sabotages Chet, (once again?), and the nuMalakal's look dejected again...At the end of the challenge, once again we see a disappointed Ozzy shot... Back at Malakal, Joel tells us that he has lost 5-6 challenges in a row, and then notes to Erik..."that at this point I don't care if it is fans vs. favs anymore, Chet is our priority", Erik totally agrees, they agree that the strong have to stay and the weak have to go...Joel continues, This game is a game for strong people and we need to keep it that way... I have bolded this statement because alarms are going off all over the place for me...Could this be the ultimate irony for Survivor 16, and is this a series where the weak eat the strong? If so, my hero is in grave danger as certainly he is the pinnacle of strength that is Survivor.... Joel continues, "I've never in my life interacted with someone so spineless. Chet is a wet rag, a ball of goo, zero honor in keeping him, if we wnet back to medieval times we would probably kill him ourselves". Over and over again we are hearing it in this episode...Strong vs. Weak... Cut to Joel and Ozzy lying down side by side in the shelter...Joel begins, "You can only play the hand we are dealt, and we have been dealt a few bad cards"...shot of Chet on the bamboo raft. Ozzy replies, what do you guys want?...Joel responds..."Chet, Cirie, Tracy", and Ozzy agrees "100 Percent", and why wouldn't he, Ozzy has always been about the strong competitors...it practically won him his last survivor series! Then we see Erik ask Amanda and Cirie, if they will vote for Chet, they both agree....but cut to Cirie in confessional...Erik seems to think we should get rid of the weaker players in the tribe. Which would be fine with me except I'm included in the weaker tribe members. Then we see Cirie with Tracy and Chet, and hear Chet say that it was all Joel's fault that they lost the challenge today..."We lost because of him"...so Tracy adds, So, let's take him out!, and the plot is laid...proposed by Tracy, carried out by Cirie. Cirie is playing a very offensive game. She sees something she doesn't like and she mobilizes at all costs. A very determined player and a very successful one. She tells us that now she has to convince Ozzy and Amanda....and she does just that...she approaches the ever hard working Ozzy, who is up in the tree chopping coconuts with his admiring babe down below... Cirie tells them, "Chet is viewed as one of the weaker players yet Joel didn't help us win, he didn't hit one tile, as big as he is, and he confused us all with the puzzle portion. Joel is the bigger threat than Chet is. Ozzy notes that Chet in challenges is a waste of space and let's take out Chet and win rewards and get to choose who goes to EI, and that Joel is a mover and a shaker and Chet is a nothing and a nothing.... Cirie counters, But Joel is already playing the game, Chet is not playing the game, Chet is a pawn and we can use him for whatever we need whenever we need it... Ozzy is now agreeing with her... So, Cirie has successfully made Ozzy agree to take out a STRENGTH instead of a weakness. Well, I can say for sure that he has definately changed the way he is playing this time around...but it makes me feel again that because he is veering off of what was a very successful course for him in his season, that he is now extremely VULNERABLE!!! Cirie is to Ozzy, as Chris was to Sarge...does that spell winner for her? Ozzy, then in confessional notes "this is an incredibly important vote tonight as we are at a crossroads right now. We need to decide how we are going to approach the rest of the game. Joel wants to win challenges, but he really wants to win the game bad, he's dangerous, it's a hard decision... At TC, Joel is blindsided, and he tells us so, he can not believe the tribe chose him over Chet...how ironic, it's just what Joel has done for the last two boots at Airai....what goes around comes around... So, the theme of this show, STRENGTH vs. WEAKNESS, but clearly the weak are overtaking the strong...will it last? Did Ozzy turn into the narrator this episode as well? If so, how does that bode for him? I felt there was alot of fleshing out of Ozzy this episode...he's vulnerable, and he is now put into the leadership role whether he wants it or not...did Malakal make the right choice? So many questions! Jiffy ended the TC with, You established what is valued by this tribe, clearly physical strength is not at the top of the list...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-08-08, 07:57 PM (EST) 73. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" LAST EDITED ON 03-09-08 AT 00:15 AM (EST) Hello FP, I wanted to post my thoughts without being influenced by others so I'll have to go back and read yours and all the others. It's good to have some interesting reading since I'm also snowed in! The recap showed us that Chet was lazy and that, even if Tracy saved her alliance by challenging Joel, the credit (and the blame) of Mikey’s boot was mainly given to his rival, Joel despite Jason’s plea which we heard again. Opening Scene – A Sad Realization: The episode started with Airai’s return from Tribal council which was accompanied by a mournful melody. We had two confessionals from Jason, the only fan shown working. The first was taken that night: “Tonight at tribal council, I was hoping that our tribe would make the right decision to vote out Chet, the weakest member of our tribe but, unfortunately, that didn’t happen.” The next day, Jason added: “I’m definitely bummed that Mike’s gone. We need a physically strong tribe and I fear that we are going to continue losing and losing and losing. I feel that the tribe I’m in is not the tribe I want to be in.” Jason’s confessional ended to show Tracy and Chet rejoicing that the 3 Outcasts had prevailed and that Jason was next. Act II - Fun Times at Malakal: Day 12 in Malakal was a time to rejoice, except for one bird! Cirie had the first confessional: “Everybody’s all excited to eat Charlie the chicken. But you know, we’re ready, we’re hungry So I guess Ozzy is gonna kill the chicken. Arrgh! I work in surgery so it’s not a big deal to me but I don’t want to see a dead chicken flapping everywhere.” Ami and James assisted Ozzy while Eliza, Parvati, Cirie and Amanda had the reaction shots with Parvati finally stating, “let’s go get some wood, cook’ em.” Ozzy saw an opportunity: “After the challenge, I went to Exile Island and found the hidden immunity idol. It’s awesome. So, after we killed the chicken, I was slick enough that I was able to hide the immunity idol before anyone could suspect…I don’t think I’ll show the idol to anyone but I totally trust James and I think I can trust Amanda and I know I can trust Parvati.” Ozzy told all 3 members of his alliance that he had the idol, adding that he wouldn’t be telling Cirie. James gave him a hug, Amanda told him she was proud of him while Parvati laughed. Amanda gave us the reaction for the alliance in confessional: “Ozzy told me he has the immunity idol. He’s told me, James and Parv. So it’s in our little four clique…we’re like the powerhouse right now. ” As we left the 4, Parvati held the machete. The Challenge: If the Fans had been disappointed to see Yau Man voted off, we heard many Favorites laughing at them when Jeff announced Mikey’s elimination. Parvati, Ami and Eliza were smiling. Jeff’s announcement of the switch received mixed reactions from the Favorites: Ozzy was clearly disappointed while Eliza was grinning. The Fans seemed to enjoy the news with Alexis and Natalie hugging while Kathy was smiling. Only Joel’s reaction was guarded. Some reactions during the pick’ em were fun: James wasn’t thrilled to be Natalie’s first pick, only surrendering a “Hey Babe” as he joined her. He made a very interesting pick with Alexis even if Jason and Erik were available. Ozzy calling Joel “Troy” instead of “Truck” showed the distance between the Favorites and the Fans. Joel’s pick of Amanda over Jonathan was also interesting. One can suppose Ozzy influenced that choice. Jonathan who, after slipping while trying to join Alexis, asked “Are you sure?” Jonathan calling Jason “Blue” reinforced the separation between the stars and the fans. Parvati wasn’t smiling when both Amanda and Ami were picked before her and then Jason called her Poverty. That irritated her and Jeff conceded that it took him a long time to figure it out also. At least James smiled for the first time. Another interesting pick was Tracy’s pick of Cirie who said sorry to Eliza for being picked ahead of her. Eliza responded “It’s OK! I’m good.” Joel wasn’t happy seeing he still had Chet to deal with. The challenge itself had a few interesting comments that could be foreshadowing: Jeff: “Eliza and Parvati have them cornered…Eliza very close, dragging Parvati behind her.” “Jason all tied up.” “Cirie and Tracy doing a good job.” “Parvati and Eliza are alive.” Act III - A Tale of Two Camps: Malakal: While visiting his nice, new camp, Joel’s confessional told us about the worst of times for him: “Maybe this is poetic justice in some form. I just got rid of Mikey versus Chet and here I end up again with Chet… There’s a little bit of irony in that but, at the same time, it can be good to have people around that will be expendable.” Erik was more optimistic: “I am so excited to be on this tribe right now. I like these people and this tribe. I got to meet Ozzy today! At this point, the game has changed completely…I’m with some of the favorites. I’m gonna try to not let that cloud my judgment. There are still people in this game.” Ozzy expressed his opinion: “I think we do have an advantage because we are on the Malakal beach and we have all the things that you need to be a strong tribe. The question is; are we going to be a strong tribe? Chet, man! He’s like a sack of potatoes… In the challenge, he just gave up… I don’t see him being a strong competitor at all… He needs to go.” Chet shared his thoughts: “I’ve always liked chickens…They have their own pecking order…The weakest one is basically pecked on until they are killed. The same goes in this game of Survivor…” Airai: We had a beautiful sunset as the new Airai entered their camp. Eliza spoke for the Favorites: “The Airai camp is pretty much a disaster. The beach is not as good as our beach. Even though winning the food reward of steaks and wine and spices was great, at Malakal we had everything and here we pretty much have nothing. It’s definitely a downgrade in terms of camp life.” Jason was cooking the steaks but the tide came in and flooded their firepit. (Somewhere, I think Dave smiled) James wasn’t impressed: “The whole Airai, the set-up they were living in was terrible. The waters are washing away the fire. I’m amazed that they are still alive, poor things! They should be dead! I mean, they’re a bunch of dingbats!” Jonathan had his own problems: “My knee is screwed up. I was on the course for the challenge and punctured it somehow… A lot of people got fat lips and twisted knees and stuff like that…It’s sore. I really tweeked the hell out of it.” Survivor Medics came in as Jonathan explained in voice over: “A wonderful doctor came to the beach and stitched me up…There could be an infection…let’s hope it doesn’t get worse.” At the start of Day 13, we were back at Malakal, with Ozzy doing what he does best, impressing his fan! Erik explained: “Ozzy is amazing, the kid can swim like crazy. He’s natural in the water… I can’t compete with him. He’s amazing.” After the fishing expedition, Ozzy started strategy talks with Joel and Erik, telling them they were in a good position and agreeing on a pecking order of Chet and “after that Cirie and Tracy”. Erik’s confessional continued: “When we were out in the water, we had a little conversation. It was mainly Joel and Ozzy and I kinda listened in. It was like two superpowers discussing terms.” Joel gave us his view: “I think it is, to a degree, still Fans versus Favorites… Somebody is going to have to flip.” Act IV – Doing the Job: The Favorites, Jonathan in the lead, got the Airai tribe to build a new and improved shelter. Alexis explained: “When we woke up this morning, it was our first priority to find a new location for the new shelter.” Parvati said: “I’d say this is the best place to build something” so work began. Alexis went on: “We have 4 new people, with so much experience under their belt, being able to point at things and say we need to do this and we need to do this and this is how we did this. I mean, it’s unbelievable.” Eliza and Parvati were shown contributing just as much as James and Jonathan as Natalie said “With our new tribe, this got erected in an hour. The new members of Airai are on it. They’re quick, they’re making it happen, it’s getting done. It’s brilliant.” In Malakal, we saw a shark but it wasn’t animal imagery: The whole tribe was amazed to see Amanda dragging in a 4 foot shark she had gotten out of their nets. Amanda explained: “When I went over to the net, I looked down and there was this huge white thing. I was like Oh! My God! It was huge. What am I gonna do? I’m from Montana, we don’t have sharks in Montana.” Ozzy was impressed: “Damn! Amanda, she basically wrestled a 4 foot shark by herself, that is pretty attractive to a guy like me. That was an amazing meal. Now we want to kick @ss, we want to start winning.” The Immunity Challenge: Besides Jonathan’s jeering, the only notable thing during the challenge was another demonstration by puzzle expert Eliza who was “calling the shots for Airai.” The Final Act – Slaying the Giant: Joel told us about the loss: “For me this is like the 5th or 6th losses in a row… At this point, there can’t be a fans versus favorites anymore, not unless we want to keep on losing… I don’t think that I have ever in my life interacted with somebody who was so spineless…He is like a ball of goo. If we went back to medieval times, we’d kill him ourselves.” Joel agreed with Erik that the vote had to be Chet. Joel then told Ozzy who liked the plan. Erik relayed it to Amanda and Cirie. If Amanda agreed, Cirie had reservations (which were underlined by powerful notes from the orchestra). Cirie explained: “Erik seems to think that we should get rid of the weaker players in the tribe which would be fine with me except I’m included in the weaker tribe members.” Cirie went to Tracy and Chet who seized the opportunity, Tracy saying: “Let’s take his @ss out.” Cirie’s confessional went on: “Chet is viewed as one of the weaker players but at the same time, Joel didn’t help his own team win and he didn’t help us win today. Right now, I have to convince Ozzy and Amanda that Joel is a bigger threat for us than Chet is.” She succeeded by pointing out that, even if it would be nice to win rewards, Joel was there to play the game while Chet was only a pawn. Ozzy then told us: “This is an incredibly important vote tonight. We are at a cross-roads. We are at a point where we decide how we are going to approach the rest of the game. Chet, in challenges, he is a waste of space. On the other hand, Joel wants to win challenges but Joel wants to win the game really bad and Joel is dangerous. It’s a hard decision.” Tribal Council: Ozzy explained that his pick of Joel was to match James’ strength. Jeff pointed that Chet wasn’t even picked and was left over. Chet responded he felt he was in trouble since day one and that he wound up with the group of people he wanted to be with. He was happy with the results. Tracy argued that Joel lacked commincations skills in the challenge and acted like a clydesdale. Joel countered that it wasn’t his fault that Chet had mud in his ears. Erik explained that it was more important to stay strong that to continue to be separated in 2 groups. When Jeff returned with the votes, we saw Amanda looking over at Ozzy as the host mentioned playing the immunity idol. Reading the votes led Jeff to comment: “Tonight’s vote established what is important to this tribe and clearly, physical strength, not at the top of the list.” We had shots of a dismayed Erik, a happy Tracy while Cirie had the look of the cat who had swallowed the canary. My Thoughts on the Story: First hearing the Favorites laugh at Airai’s choice of booting Mikey, then seeing the 4 new Airai building a better shelter in an hour than the fans had done in 13 days, and finally seeing Tracy and Joel eager to give the advantage to the Favorites, it seemed as if this episode’s theme was “Survivor Fans are Stupid!” Burnett could be getting back at his most vocal detractors but I felt like we needed a disclaimer: “It is not the opinion of the network that all fans are this dumb.” More seriously, with last week pointing at a Favorite winning the game, the tribe of interest, this week, remained on Malakal’s beach. Certainly, we have to consider that they were the ones going to Tribal Council while Jonathan’s injury was a big part of Airai’s new story but all the complexities of the game were on Malakal. Even before they lost the challenge, we heard plans being drawn. Airai talked about their living conditions, not a single member of the tribe talking about the game. If Malakal remains the tribe of interest, then we will be able to say that the winner stayed in Malakal. Chet is still being pecked on. He may have outlasted Mikey and Joel but he still has Ozzy and Jeff to contend with. Has our host ever been so transparently negative about a contestant? The camera continued to show us the pathetic Chet. There were no doubts in my mind that it is how he was meant to be seen. There was no attempt to build sympathy like we normally see in an underdog because his only confessional was to tell us he was resigned to being pecked on. None of his escapes from the votes have been credited to him. He was always someone else’s pawn. His story is that he isn’t a survivor and doesn’t deserve to stay. Natalie may have a connection to Alexis as seen by their hug before the pick’ em but her own story is not picking up. She was a tourist that was not completely satisfied with her lodging conditions but was happy to see some improvement. That’s not the story of a winner. Erik’s story of competing against Ozzy was terminated last week by Alexis who proclaimed Ozzy as the best competitor ever. Hearing Erik himself tell us this week that he can’t compete with Ozzy transforms him into just another fan, excited at meeting his idol, rather than a true player in this game. The fight is gone, especially now that he lost his leader. Kathy was invisible this episode. Was it because her only story is on Exile Island and, since no one was exiled, she has no story left? I think she has a little more story than that but it still is mainly about meeting the favorites. It’s very interesting that the three she met on Exile Island are on the other tribe. Poor Kathy! Kathy had no connections with Alexis and Natalie while she certainly was targeted by Jason. Will Kathy go with the Favorites or will the remaining fans turn on her? Her story of being the Victim would fit with Kathy being betrayed by the other fans. Alexis has now joined some favorites but, instead of using her knowledge of their game to her advantage, she was reduced to being impressed with their experience. She introduced the theme of “Experience versus Knowing the Players” so it’s alarming for her chances that she wasn’t given a chance to tell us about her plans. Her story could be to play the role of the nice girl that makes a good impression on the Favorites and goes a long way by infiltrating their alliance. There had to be something that led to James picking her over Erik and Jason. Her lack of development indicates that she will only be partly successful. Tracy is still fighting but she received minimum credit in the recap for her role in voting out Mikey. Repeating Jason’s plea and showing again the lonely Chet relaxing in the ocean were question marks the editors had regarding Tracy’s move. Was it short sighted? Did it fracture the fans’ tribe? This week’s episode was an answer to that. Tracy wasn’t shown as a planner, she only reacted to Cirie’s offer and decided to go after Joel without getting anything in return. Again, Tracy was only seen when she was needed. Tracy isn’t the story of Micronesia, just one of its supporting actors. Jason has never been shown as a fan, as someone admiring the Favorites. I found it interesting that he was the only one shown working when they returned to their camp after TC. Everyone was happy with the vote and ready to go to bed but Jason was tending the fire and regretting the outcome of the vote. He wasn’t happy to be in that tribe but he remained in Airai. I don’t know if “Blue” will enjoy his stay in the new Airai. He appeared to make a good impression on the favorites when we saw him working with James and Jonathan. His main problem is that he isn’t shown as a smart player. We saw his mistakes: He alienated himself from some members of his tribe when he refused to let them share his cave. He didn’t know how to rally his tribe, no one listening to his plea for a strong tribe. In this episode, we saw the tide coming in to put out his fire. And, in the previews, we see he could be making a bigger mistake down the line. Jeff could be putting out his fire soon. Ami was an early pick which shows that she is recognized as a strong performer. Jeff ackowledged that when he said she was hurt but was still carrying on but Ami isn’t part of the story. Her vote was taken for granted by the editors who didn’t show her being part of the strategy discussions. Amanda, it seems, needed to catch a shark to get some airtime! What will she have to do next time?! Kidding aside, we also saw her talking for the alliance about Ozzy finding the idol and then being part of the decision to go for either Chet or Joel. Despite that, her story is still mainly about being Ozzy’s girlfriend. Even her shark wrestling became part of that story as Ozzy’s confessional of finding it attractive was shown. Did Amanda’s look at TC tell someone Ozzy had the idol? If no one saw Candice telling Adam that she loved him during a Cook Islands TC, I think that glance was edited in to make us talk. James continued to get some negativity as he denigrated the fans in this episode and was clearly unhappy at joining them. Troubling for him was that we didn’t hear anyone comment on his work ethic when they rebuilt the shelter. It was as if Parvati and Eliza were as valuable as the big guy. James was surprised that the fans were still alive. That comment made me think that he would be even more surprised if a fan outlasted him in the end game. Was it to tell us that James will be blinsided by his alliance? Did I hear someone say ‘No, James is too smart for that’? Jonathan seems to be in real trouble. We didn’t hear Eliza’s comment that he could lose his leg which was part of last week’s previews. If Eliza’s comment is from next episode’s timeline, I’m worried that it means Jonathan’s situation will worsen. Being forced out of the game would explain all the banter we heard between him and Jeff. Jonathan was very appreciated by Jeff for being a real character and they are giving him his due. Eliza is continuing to play a big role this season. The camera really gave her credit for the IC win with many close-ups of her figuring out the puzzle and then of her joy at solving it. We saw how happy she was at the news of a tribe shuffle and how she wasn’t worried at being picked last. It would have been nice to hear her tell us how she felt about that rather than how Airai’s camp was a disaster. You know Eliza had to talk about being worried to be next on the block in Malakal but how the switch was a chance to start over. It would have been nice also to hear some reactions about being on the same tribe as Jonathan and Parvati, continuing the storyline from last week. Jonathan’s injury could cut that plotline short, making Eliza regret her comment of hoping someone will be removed from the game. If Eliza does find herself in the minority in Airai, can she save herself again? It would be ironic if she stays alive and drags Parvati along with her to the merge. Eliza, as in Vanuatu, will outlast many but not all. Cirie was the one chosen to give us the narration of Charlie the Chicken’s beheading but her role was mainly in chopping the head off of a giant. She had the confessional to explain the plan after talking with Erik and Amanda and the confessional that set it in motion after her chat with Tracy and Chet. She didn’t get a chance to give her views to Jeff at tribal council which would have been a good sign for her but the looks she gave the camera were almost as good. I doubt anyone will say that this decision was stupid. If the clique of 4 is a powerhouse, so is Cirie. Her story is proving that. Parvati had no confessionals during this important episode but she still had presence. I found it intriguing that Ozzy “knew” he could trust her but she was seen laughing at the news of the idol. Will she have the last laugh and be holding the machete when it’s time to play that idol? Is that the meaning behind that little scene? We only saw her reactions at not being picked soon, not about the switch itself. Of all the Favorites, Parvati and Amanda were the ones that had the most to lose with a tribal switch and, if we saw Amanda remain in the majority of her tribe, Parvati’s fate is still undecided. It was a good sign that she was seen as valuable as Jonathan and James in building that shelter because her reputation from CI was of being lazy. It wasn’t a great episode for her chances of winning, especially since Airai was somewhat neglected, but she still has a story that points to the end game. We’ll need to hear her thoughts soon to keep her as one of the two front-runners. Ozzy is continuing to beat all the competition. Truck and Erik weren’t much to tackle. Which guy is left as a threat? Unless it isn’t a guy he needs to worry about! It was very promising that the idol only took up one of his confessionals and that the rest were mainly about strategy. Did anyone feel negativity from Ozzy as he called Chet a bag of potatoes? I will venture to say no as he was validated by what was shown. If Cirie was given credit for slaying the giant, Ozzy was the one that was seen enabling it. He listened to Cirie and realized she had a valid point, Joel being very dangerous. I bolded part of his last confessional: “We are at a point where we decide how we are going to approach the rest of the game” because it could be telling us about future events. Note that Amanda and Ozzy spoke only of REWARD challenges with Cirie. “Don’t you want to win rewards?” they asked her. Why not ‘Don’t you want to win challenges’ or ‘immunities’? Now that the Favorites have gained a majority, Malakal could be planning to lose some immunity challenges to dwindle down the number of fans. As Ozzy said, they don’t need rewards since they already have every thing they need to be a strong tribe. That part of Cirie’s argument could have been edited out since editors and fans generally don’t like throwing challenges. Without Joel, losing challenges wouldn’t look fixed, unless they start laughing out loud like some Zhan Hu women!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-08-08, 11:03 PM (EST) 74. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" Hello back, michel! AS always, an excellent commentary. I liked and enjoyed your take on things much better than my own. I think you are right...all of the action was at Malakal this episode, I do think the winner could still be there. I still see Cirie as a trouble maker/villain to some degree. I really thought the whole episode really revolved around Ozzy this week. I don't know if I was more negative in that I am such a fan of his...it will be very interesting to read Veruca's take on the episode! I found myself very sympathetic toward Ozzy with a tough decision to make. Clearly this will impact the rest of the game...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-08-08, 11:59 PM (EST) 75. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" Thank you FP. I must admit that your theme of the "Weak vs the Strong" is more acceptable than mine which was "The Fans are Dumb"! I wanted to address this observation: "Ozzy is unemotional with James/Ami, while Cirie/Parv/Amanda are all emotional over the demise of the chicken....hmmmmm keeping emotions out of the game vs. emotional playing here...food for thought?" It made me realize that, after the initial reaction, Parvati was heard saying, with no emotions in her voice, "Let's go get some wood and cook 'em." Some more food for thought. To address your fears regarding Ozzy's vulnerability, I must say he is looking good so far and Burnett hasn't been hiding his winners very well lately. His trust in Parvati could ruin him, Cirie's strategy could fool him, Eliza's tenacity could exhaust him or Alexis' charm could disarm him but he has already defeated every declared challengers.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-12-08, 06:54 AM (EST) 81. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" Once again I am late to the party and there really is no need for me to do an exhaustive post since the episode has been delved into very deeply. FP - thank you kindly for finding my take interesting but I think every nuance has been covered nicely and won't bother repeating everyone. I have read all the posts and truly enjoyed the reading. Specifically for you FP since you make mention, I will address your own point and I know how you are a true fan of Ozzy (which is not hard to be I might add ) Ozzy is receiving a very beautiful edit this season and why shouldn't he? He was an extremely popular player who almost won his season (and many believe he should have done so) With that said, a beautiful edit does not always make a winner and I'm inclined to believe that Ozzy's edit thus far may be along the lines of those past Survivors who were extremely popular and the editors wanted it to remain that way by molding one of stellar proportions. Two immediate examples that come to my mind would of course be Rupert and Stephenie. A big premise this season is whether the favorites have upped their own ante and consciously decided that they may need to adjust their game play. There are a few that have been noted to do so and Ozzy certainly has "socialized" differently this season than in CI. However, while we can note that he has embarked on social relations and is immersed in an alliance whereas before he "did his own thing" one has to question if it will be a successful change. Although Ozzy stated he needed to keep his relationship with Amanda at a distance, we are then shown him negating his own words. As we also saw, he told others about his finding the idol as well. One may attempt to change a certain aspect of themselves but unlike the environment, Ozzy is a bit of a fish out of water in the social aspects of the game. This is not to say he is not SOCIALIZING but playing a social game in Survivor requires a certain finesse - trust to a degree, relate to a degree, follow or lead to a degree and know where the degree is - I'm not sure that Ozzy can master that subtle way of playing. The mantra of "everybody wants to beat him" is a lovely theme for Ozzy, it would also be a lovely ending in a storybook that the hero who everyone wants to beat rises to the occasion and comes out the winner. Alas, Survivor is not a storybook, it merely tells a story. Part of Ozzy's story IS he is being caught up in a romantic involvement which again was forced upon us last week with his admiration over Amanda's catching a shark. Did his confessional have to be shown? Not at all. Amanda catching the shark should be shown, it is "newsworthy" (so to speak) but truly, did Ozzy's glowing testimonial over Amanda be required to further the storyline IF their romantic involvement has no bearing perhaps on either of them? So why was that particular confessional shown? There are correlations of players that have been hinted upon and paths are crossing and more needs to be fleshed out. Both Amanda and Ozzy note their need to be careful yet they are not. Amanda, Cirie and Parvati discuss their "threesome" and Amanda even notes she will watch herself if it bothers Cirie (though that did not seem to happen) Parvati deems that it is essential to keep both James and Ozzy close to them. This "foursome" is noted to be a threat but we see how three women are formulating their own plans while Ozzy and James are not discussing anything of the sort. Ozzy trusts James and Parvati and "thinks" he can trust Amanda. Parvati advises to the world she will play a different game, her flirtation continued yet interestingly enough she is discussed as someone who may hold some power. She and James have been separated and a few carefully placed visuals show this could be of a concern. Cirie is making a lot of decisions which are being catered to and Ozzy (with others) are following her lead despite there being a definite issue with those decisions. One item to remember as a whole is that with returning players, editing will be different. In Guatemala the two returning players HAD to be featured, they were "returning guest stars" (so to speak) and of course Steph made it to the final two. Whichever returning players can be milked for all their worth, WILL be milked for all their worth because they are familiar to the audience and some are extremely popular but that does not necessarily make them the winning player. You are correct in how you "felt" watching Ozzy hence the beauty of editing manipulation but I am always wary of overt editing, it tends to make me suspicious of something that builds to a great momentum for a massive plot that not always favors the main character.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

b1whois 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-12-08, 05:01 PM (EST) 82. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" LAST EDITED ON 03-12-08 AT 05:03 PM (EST) boy VS, you are SO smart! excellent analysis. however, my take on the "amanda wrestled a shark and that turns me on" quote is that it is shown because it makes the audience go "snork!". it is funny, it is cute and it so adorable. so my reaction is that it was not necessarily forced. in fact, i must comment that we are shown amanda's moment in terms of the tribe's reaction, and specifically in terms of ozzy's reaction (although she did have a confessional about it). we were not shown her actually finding the shark, and if she did "wrestle" it as we are led to believe (why else would ozzy to use that word?) then that would have been very exciting TV. was the camera man asleep on the job? or is amanda's edit that weak? yikes! interesting that you point out that the james-parvati romance has fallen of the screen. i had not noticed that but you may be right. i am not sure what you meant when you said that they are "separated"... sorry i have not written about the insider like i had offered, it seems that i bit off more than i could chew. i spent several hours working on something, but i never got it "finished". now i have even more respect for the people that post long analysises here week after week, kudos to you all! (you know who you are: wanna be playboy bunny DAWs!)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Erika221 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-09-08, 06:08 PM (EST) 77. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" LAST EDITED ON 03-09-08 AT 06:10 PM (EST) Erik totally agrees, they >agree that the strong have >to stay and the weak >have to go...Joel continues, This >game is a game for >strong people and we need >to keep it that way... >I have bolded this statement >because alarms are going off >all over the place for >me...Could this be the ultimate >irony for Survivor 16, and >is this a series where >the weak eat the strong? Hi Flowerpower I think you make a very good assessment of the current situation, but I am holding out hope perhaps....we all know how Burnett LOVES the strong, so I am thinking it's just possible that the game does unfold in this manner --- the weak taking out the strong ---> but Ozzy agreed to take out Joel and noted that this would dictate which direction they were going...for the time being and perhaps even into the finals the weaker will take out the stronger, but could it be that the irony of the season is that even though the weak pick off the strong - the strongest of them all will still prevail? I know this is an ending Burnett would salivate over...all the strategy, scheming and plotting to allow those inferior to Survivor longer than the stronger and more physical players will not be enough to overcome the 1 player who has developed his game more than anyone else? A person that has both the strategy and the strength would be the ultimate Survivor, I'd say. Ozzy is clearly showing both this season and his edit shows it again and again. I want to believe in this fairytale ending and I think it could still happen - I HOPE!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

MattyMax 512 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 03-10-08, 01:55 AM (EST) 78. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" Erika, you state that Ozzy has developed his game, and has strength and strategy. I like Ozzy ok, but I have to disagree with you on something. I don't think Ozzy has any strategy. He did well in his first season because he was a challenge machine. He's an amazing swimmer and athlete. But, what is his strategy? He formed a solid 4 alliance, which is smart, but alienated the rest of the tribe in the process. Eliza says that he has an attitude because of his prowess. He found the Idol - good, but then told his entire alliance! Except for the II, Ozzy is playing with an open hand. Everyone knows his strengths, he's not making a lot of friends outside of his alliance. Yul beat Ozzy in the finals of his first season because Ozzy did not play the social game. He just won challenges. I don't really see him playing the social, strategic game at all. Can you see Ozzy gathering votes for a blindsight vote? I guess I think Ozzy is amazing to watch, but he's not a strategic player at all.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Erika221 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-10-08, 02:58 AM (EST) 79. "RE: Post Episode 5 Commentary" LAST EDITED ON 03-14-08 AT 10:06 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 03-10-08 AT 03:03 AM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 03-10-08 AT 03:00 AM (EST) Hi MattyMatt - I think you make a VERY VALID point. My comparisons though aren't to the other players - I am only pointing out how Ozzy's edits from Cook Islands to this season differ. In Cook Islands he relied solely on his ability to win challenges in order to succeed in the game and ultimately lost because he didn't have the social game, as you've pointed out. What is different this go round (and perhaps it's only editing), is that Ozzy isn't the stubborn hold-out vote to save Flicka or Cai Boi. He isn't going against the tide and standing on principle. He is has been shown in several strategy discussions with Jonathan, Cirie and Joel last episode...this is a new dimension to him as a player. I think the Ozzy from Cook Islands would have never voted out Yau Man and he most certainly have kept Joel over Chet. This is where I see the difference. I also think there are some players that are for sure out-playing him in the social/strategy sense, but he is not the 1-dimensional challenge monster of Cook Islands, his personal game has developed to some degree. I also don't think it's a mistake that the editing has shown him in so many situations in which strategy is discussed. As I recall Cook Islands, his strategy and social game was barely shown at all - except in the Billy boot episode. I don't see him creating the blindside strategy at all, but that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't working a better strategy than he has in the past. If he doesn't orchestrate the plans to blindside, he keeps his hands clean sort of and if he is lucky enough to make the finals, a bitter jury could well reward him for being in the social mix and just outlasting people. I am a die-hard Ozzy fan though, so all my views are obviously somewhat biased I don't think at this point he makes the finals, but it's still possible I think and hope I am not really feeling great though about the most recent preview Jason is punk and I wish he was dumb enough to fall for the stick-idol Ozzy made! Oh how I wished   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-11-08, 11:17 PM (EST) 80. "RE: Themes" I was looking back over the themes many of you have pointed out: *Fans vs. favs/Advantage vs. Disadvantage (knowledge of strengths and weaknesses vs. experience) *Fans - beating their idol/rival, proving themselves worthy *Favs - Repeating past Mistakes vs. Adjustment of Game Play *Fans as underdogs/enthusiastic *Favs as dominating/overconfident This seems to lead to the Veruca's conclusion that: How the end result comes down remains to be seen, however the "ultimate" ending would be a fan against a favorite due to the enormous storyline potential. Then we've recently seen several developments of this theme: *Acting in own interests (taking out the threats) vs. the keeping the tribe strong (voting out the weak) OR short term play vs. long term play. Also Jeff, in a recent interview,stated that the theme of how the game takes a physical toll on the players will play a huge role. *The injuries in episode 5 may well develop into something serious at least in Jonathon's case, if not others. *I did notice on the insider "secret scene" that Kathy has been quite ill, so ill that Joel was carrying her to challenges/tribal. - No mention of this yet? I wonder if Jeff/the editing is giving us hints/warnings that this will trump the previous themes in the sense that it is the game (through injury/sickness) that takes out some of the best players this time and the winner is someone who OUTLASTS the other survivors.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Mocha 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 04-01-08, 07:46 PM (EST) 95. "RE: Themes" Definitely the theme of women vs. men is being highlighted. Will we for the first time (let me know if I'm wrong) have a final 4 that is all women? As CT girl among others have mentioned, the women have been edited/shown as real "players" this time. The Women Pavarti and Amanda may have showmances but they have been shown being open to an all female alliance (with Cirie). Cirie has been shown to make her moves to early. Eliza and Ami have been shown working all the angles but their angles are running out. Not shown yet - At least in the hidden scenes Alexis and Natalie have a bond. It looks like Pavarti is shown brokering another alliance with Alexis and Natalie in the next episode. The Men Jason is shown as isolated. James is shown dependent on Pavarti. Erik is shown dependent on Ozzy. Of the men Ozzy has the best edit but his downfall has been forshadowed to be a blindside (by the women?). It would be nice to have a female winner this time and the audience, through editing, may actually be allowed to see WHY she DESERVES deserves to WIN. A deserving female winner is not a usual edit from Mr. Burnett...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-15-08, 05:47 PM (EST) 83. "Thoughts on Episode #6" LAST EDITED ON 03-15-08 AT 06:19 PM (EST) The recap had a new scene, Parvati hugging Natalie and admonishing James “Don’t look so pissed off”. Jeff also called the couples’ alliance Ozzy’s for the first time, saying: “his alliance…in control of the game. But their control was short lived.” After hearing Ozzy agreeing 100% with Joel’s plan, Jeff told us the favorites had a different idea. “The fans on Malakal had a first hand lesson on how the favorites operate. The Favorites used Tracy and Chet to blindside Joel”. Opening Scene – Digesting a Lesson: Erik was dumbfounded returning from Tribal: “I felt pretty shafted to see Joel go. I mean, those guys are tough as nails. You cannot trust the favorites at all…They have armour on. If the playing field has been lowered to lying and just tricking people straight to their face, I think I might have to do something about it.” Scene II – A New Plan: Malakal, Day 15 Tracy summed up the situation: “It was so hard to vote out Joel. They have 4 and we had 4 and we should have gained control against the favorites but Joel was hell bent on getting rid of Chet, taking away my alliance. So, what are you gonna do? This is absolutely driving me batty, not being in control.” She told Erik that he was next to go and Erik reacted: “Damn, that pisses me off.” Tracy concluded: “We need one of them to vote with us. If we can get one of them off, then we’re back” While Ozzy was being a “chicken farmer”, Tracy and Ami had a talk about the shift in the game. It lead to this confessional from Ami: “Tracy seemed like she’d given up so I went and had a pep talk with her (could this confessional actually be from after Chet left? Tracy wasn’t giving up just before this scene.) …I was never a part of the original alliance between James, Parvati, Cirie, Amanda and Ozzy.” Another confessional from Ami was added here: “So, I’m also in a vulnerable situation so, maybe, I need to play the game a little differently. But, I’m taking baby steps right now and we’ll see what happens.” In Airai, a touching tribute to Jonathan was beginning: James told us about his concerns: “Jonathan messed up his leg. Hopefully, he’ll be alright ‘cause losing Jonathan would be a big blow to the team. I mean, I’m sure we’ll make do but it would just suck because he is truly a good motivator, a great guy to have around. I’d be stuck over here with a bunch of girls, (Eliza and Parvati on screen) losing my mind.” Jonathan asked how Eliza was doing and she told him “Good. I was given new life by this switch up.” Jonathan responded: “I loved it. We got the wrong beach but the better tribe, for sure.” Eliza had a confessional: “Fans versus Favorites is over in my mind. As a new Airai tribe, we have 4 fans and 4 favorites but I think that, once we earn the fans’ trust, Jonathan and I are going to try to work with them and definitely get rid of Parvati and James before there is any kind of merge and they can get back with Amanda and Ozzy.” (Parvati and James were seen scrubbing each other in the ocean) Jonathan said “The game is about to get on.” The Challenge: Of note, Airai looked delighted to see Joel voted out, with the camera showing Parvati, Alexis, Jonathan and Natalie smiling. Hearing the instructions, Jonathan had this to say: “I think I could be very helpful putting this together.” After the challenge, we saw white birds flying off in the sky and heard sad music. It prepared us for what was coming next. Jonathan was still in fighting spirits: “Bad luck on Johnny. I had this game too. I saw the daylight…” After hugging him, Kathy talked for the tribe: “I really hated to see him go. He was like a pillar of strength around camp. I’m upset to see him go, I only knew him for 3 days but what I knew, I loved him.” Jeff and Jonathan exchanged a handshake. Jonathan’s final words showed his love of the game: “I don’t want to be out of the game…I couldn’t have fought any harder. It was fun while it lasted.” (Indeed, it was. If only the challenge had been as well designed as this tribute) Scene III – Contrasts: Coming back to Airai, we heard Parvati saying that it was too bad for Jonathan who kicked butt in the challenge but couldn’t participate in the reward. Carrying the tribe’s flag, James gave us his views: “I needed Jonathan ‘cause these girls are driving me crazy. I’m with a bunch of girls and I’m not that persuasive in the verbal manner to woo people on my side and they are.” Right then, Parvati was heard saying “I’m excited about this little guy coming to visit us.” (She knows how to woo them!) James added: “Coming to the merge is all good but chances of me making it are not that…(Laughing) This is not in my favor right now.” (Parvati and Natalie were seen talking as he said this) Greeting the natives, 3 Survivor’s name appeared on screen, James, Alexis and Parvati, as they introduced themselves. (Everyone had to get introduced so are these 3 names to remember?) Eliza told us: “When Edwin and Joe came, they brought…Just amazing, amazing stuff. We were thrilled.” In the “Fishing with Edwin” segment of the show, we heard Parvati talking to James “Double hook it then throw it out.” Parvati had this confessional: “I think this is one of the best reward we’ve gotten because we can actually continually use this knowledge and come out here and fish in the morning instead of eating coconut day after day after day. It’s gonna be amazing for us.” Proving she had learned Edwin’s lesson well, we saw Parvati catching a fish. On Malakal, Day 15 brought more tension, with Amanda telling Ozzy: “We are not working good with these people. In that challenge, it felt like it was us four against the whole tribe over there.” Ozzy agreed: “We got to get rid of Tracy and Chet. She’s a builder and she didn’t do anything.” Amanda told us: “We lost the reward challenge today. It’s the 3rd challenge in a row that we’ve lost as the new Malakal tribe. We just don’t work well as a team and we need the fans to step it up.” Cirie spoke in voice over: “What’s getting on my nerves is that, not only do you have to play the game, you have to teach them the game too. I don’t want to teach.” The feeling around camp irritated Ami. She gave us her opinion, sitting in the same tree as her first confessional: “It’s starting to kinda get to me, the fan bashing. (From one who was bashed by fans herself, that’s interesting!) Yeah! They seem slow and they’re not doing anything but, you know what, they are coming around and we were once there too. So, I’m starting to think, why not give them a chance.” Ami then talked to Tracy, saying she would have been happy to vote for Cirie. They shared the same uneasy feeling about Cirie’s nice smile and her sweetness and how most people trust her. Ami’s confessional went on: “I’m really conflicted right now. The thing is that I just don’t trust Cirie. I just don’t. She screwed me over once when she voted out Yau Man and I feel it coming again.” Tracy and Ami said they trusted each other and then Ami told Erik she was giving them her trust and to take care of her because she was really sticking her neck out. When Cirie wondered if Jason had found the idol, Ozzy had a confessional: “I have the real immunity idol and after I found the II, I decided to fashion a fake one of my own and I wrapped it back up and hid it right back where I found it. I really want Jason to find the fake one because, from what I heard, he might be naïve enough to believe that it’s the real one and use it in some manner that might get him voted off.” We were off to Exile Island, where Chet was telling Jason he thought Ozzy had the idol and was going to use the time for his heel to heal. Chet had a confessional about how a piece of coral injured him during a challenge and how his health was more important right now. Jason didn't waste time. The storyline of the fake idol went on as we accompanied Jason on his quest: “Chet believes that Ozzy holds the immunity idol already so I think that he’s given up on the hope of finding it. Me, on the other hand, I’m just gonna keep looking and see what happens.” The dramatic music, which had also accompanied Ozzy’s quest, soon turned to Survivor’s infamous ‘Kooky’ theme, complete with metallic sound effects to tell us who is the Dumb Player. (Even the parrot knew better!) “There we go, baby” said Jason, who added: “Well, I guess this is the Hidden Immunity Idol. It’s not much but it’s a carving of a piece of wood with a little guy on it. This is pretty incredible so I’m gonna have to hold on to this tight.This means that Ozzy doesn’t have it, I have it. This is really good for me. Sweet!” Scene IV – Team Spirit In Airai, the tribe was enjoying a night meal, courtesy of the locals. Alexis had a confessional: “The fish stew is, hands down, the best meal we’ve had so far. It was delicious. I think we had 25 different types of fish tonight on top of all the incredible seasonings that they brought with them. They were kinda showing us how to do it.” Someone asked James how he felt with all the lovely ladies. The big guy gave a thumbs up as his only non-verbal answer. The Immunity Challenge: Surprisingly, we didn't see the two natives leaving camp when, the next morning, we went directly to the Immunity challenge. Malakal soon saw that Jonathan was missing. Ami and Ozzy were the ones shocked by the news. As the Exiled Players rejoined the tribes, we had a shot of Chet looking at his foot, concerned about his own injury when he heard about Jonathan’s infection. Jason used Jeff’s question about the idol to try a little deception: “I kinda gave up and the conclusion I’ve come to, right now, is that Ozzy has already discovered the HII.” Ozzy didn’t give anything away: “I don’t know if he isn’t that good at following clues or if someone else has found it. I guess we’re only going to find out in the next couple of days.” The challenge itself was a demonstration of James’ strength as Airai dominated the challenge. Jeff’s comments were “Wow! Airai trying to outhink the challenge…James carrying the pole, the rest of the tribe keeping it steady. If it works, great strategy and it does. Great idea, great execution by Airai. Not the way this challenge was designed or the way we thought it would go. Malakal…have not stolen Airai’s strategy. James is powering Airai to a huge lead…Everyone in Airai hanging on to James.” Other comments from Jeff: “Parvati…can she keep her balance? Parvati fell off at the last second…Giving it another go… Parvati is across.” “Cirie is losing it.” Despite all the praise for James, I think the idea was Eliza’s. She was the one that went over to the platform to get the idol from Jeff’s hands, something often reserved to the star of the challenge. Final Scene – Staged Fright? I won’t comment on the final act because, having read Chet’s interview, I think the whole scene, including the tribal council, could have been staged, that the TC was a foregone conclusion. If Chet’s goal was to go out with dignity, it failed horribly as he was portrayed letting his alliance down. It was the last humiliation to what can only be described as the “Wimp Edit”, the complete opposite of the Tribute edit given Jonathan. The only question about the created (scripted?) suspense is to wonder if it was misdirection, put in to make us doubt Ozzy could win or rather if it was foreshadowing, letting us know that Ozzy can easily be blindsided. My thoughts on that later. For this episode: Malakal continued to be the conflicted tribe but I sensed that it didn’t make it the tribe of interest. The contrast between the two tribes showed that Airai was having fun playing the game and, often, having fun is key to having good performances. We can’t believe that there has been no alliance talks in this tribe after 6 days. Leaving questions unanswered is a signal that the developments in this tribe will be of capital importance later on. The contrast between each tribe made me think that the Finale will include members from both tribes with a member of the new Airai probably having the most fun in the end. We can say that Ami finally had a strong showing with manipulated confessionals. Some were put together from different settings, one was sprinkled throughout the episode. It is troubling to see that all her manipulations were done to create an artificial suspense. We have heard her say that she was sticking her neck out and it all was for naught. Ami should be paying the price for her actions soon. She knows Cirie is ready to screw her over again. Erik looked like someone who had no clue how this game works when he was surprised by the outcome of TC and even more when he suddenly realized that Tracy was right, that he was a target. After hinting that Jason wasn’t all that smart, now we are being shown that he is really a “Dumb Player”. The storyline of the fake idol has been growing nicely and it could have a funny ending. Tracy was shown to be a fighter. Her story was the only one that benefited from that sham of an ending. Her fans will be able to say that her elimination wasn’t her fault. James is back into a tribe that drives him crazy. How long before we hear him talk of Froot loops?! As in the challenge, I expect that James will carry his alliance to victory but that he will go down as one of the last man standing, unable to bring the woman he trusts the most to his side. There had to be a reason why Parvati was seen each time James talked about his worries. Assessing the Players’ Chances: Burnett takes care of his winner and the story of the winner always follows the themes of the season. Those are the things we use to determine the long term players. How does Burnett take care of his winner? Mainly by using 3 editing patterns: 1- The winner makes a good first impression on the viewers. A look back at Episode #1 is always a good idea. 2- The winner always has some presence even if they are not central to the story of an episode. 3- The winner gets positive comments from the other players and from Jeff himself at challenges and at TC. What are the themes of the season? We have seen 4 main ones at work: 1- Fans vs. Favorites. Is it really over? 2- Experience vs Knowing the Veterans’ Game led us to look at which veteran improved their game and how the fans were coping. 3- The Weak vs the Strong led to noting that physical strength isn’t a priority. 4- The Game is Harder than what Fans think (The PC version of my “Fans are Dumb” theme) Presentations: 1- Of the remaining Fans, Alexis, Tracy, Erik and Jason were the ones that made a good first impression. Kathy was considered weird and Natalie was ignored. On the Favorite’s side, we have to look at the way they were introduced. Amanda, Ami and Eliza didn’t get a confessional in the opening scene. Eliza had one of the only 2 flashbacks that were negative, Twila telling her she needed to chill out. Cirie had the other one, being shown disturbed at the idea of eating raw fish. Talking about being a couch potato could have justified that intro somewhat. James said he was more a fan than a favorite. Ozzy was the “same Ozzy” said Jeff. Parvati had an opening confessional and a positive look at the game. 2- Ozzy and Eliza are the ones that have had the most presence. Cirie had a slow beginning but has really picked up since episode #3. Parvati has received the most manipulated scenes, the camera showing her at times when it wasn’t necessary. Amanda, Ami and James have been often neglected. For the Fans, Tracy and Erik have had the most presence. Jason had a few solid episodes but others where he wasn’t shown. Alexis has never been featured and maybe the casual viewer can’t differentiate her and Natalie. That isn’t good but, when you look closer, there have been so many differences between the two that it must mean something. Every confessional that Alexis had, Natalie could have had also, yet Natalie only has 1 confessional after 6 episodes while Alexis averages 1 per episode. Kathy has shared her feelings, making her an endearing character, someone with a story but no game so no future. 3- Ozzy has received many positive comments but always about his challenge abilities. We think we see improvements in his game but the players aren’t acknowledging it. Eliza was said to be crafty and shifty in episode #1. Both Jonathan and Parvati said she was doing what she had to do to save herself. Troubling is that no one has commented on her abilities with puzzles. Parvati was called a more dangerous player than Ozzy by the one who should know them best, Jonathan. For her, it was important to be included in the new Airai players that were seen as great help with the shelter. Add the “Attagirl!” when she caught the fish. Cirie has been talked about both positively and negatively. We heard she is sweet, that she can get people to trust her but we have also heard that her idea to boot Yau Man was stupid. James was finally given some credit by Jeff during the last challenge. After Parvati’s initial “wow” seeing him bring down trees, we have heard almost nothing from the players. Ami and Amanda haven’t been talked about either, except as part of the couples’ alliance in Amanda’s case. I don’t remember many positive comments for the fans. The Favorites have mainly laughed at them. Tracy was called out for doing nothing in the last reward challenge and being slow. Jason was called naïve by Ozzy and arrogant by Chet. Erik was put down by Alexis when she called Ozzy the best competitor ever and was included in the fans that didn’t contribute to the new Malakal. The only fan who received a positive signal was when Alexis was picked by James over Erik and Jason but that isn't an editor's choice. Ozzy, Parvati and Alexis are the three players that we can say received a consistently careful edit. Eliza and Cirie made weak first impressions but have rallied since then. Tracy and Erik made good impressions and have presence but have been put down by their opposition. The Themes: Now that we have eliminated 6 players, how do the remaining 7 fit into the themes? Themes #2 and 4 have been used in combination to show that the Veterans have the advantage. That was a subject of debate in episode #1, each side claiming the advantage. It has to mean something for the end story. The fans not being able to cope eliminates Erik since he has been often shown as a fan, gushing over Ozzy’s abilities. Tracy was never portrayed as only a fan. Her story was one of being a fighter even if she was in an untenable position. Her story seems to have reached its conclusion when they apparently staged Chet’s exit to make her look good. Her exit isn’t in doubt anymore after hearing that her strong move to get rid of Joel was qualified as being used by the favorites. If that wasn’t enough, she was called useless in camp and in challenges. I don’t think that it is a coincidence that, when the favorites talked about her, the camera showed her walking alone in the ocean just like Chet had been presented on a few occasions. Cirie is still playing Fans vs Favorites and she is profiting from the favorites’ success. She won’t be teaching the fans how to play. Surprisingly, this shows an improvement to her game! Cirie’s main problem the first time was that she was too likeable, making her very dangerous to bring to the end. Hearing people speaking negatively about her can be good for her chances to face the jury. What if she does only to be the least liked? Could Cirie turn into the Boston Rob of Half-A$$?!! Now that would be new but consider a F3 with her, Parvati and either Eliza or Alexis. Cirie could be the bad guy! More seriously, Cirie is showng up on the radar and that isn’t good for her. Being the one responsible for Yau Man’s exit without justification, kills her chances. For the first 5 episodes, I thought Ozzy had a great story for a winner. I saw the contradictions that Veruca noted but I had an excuse for all of them. He wasn’t the one making the comments that were negated, it was the couples’ alliance. Now, Jeff called it Ozzy’s alliance in the recap. I thought that Ozzy was playing a more intelligent game but then he shows how easily he could be blindsided, shown playing the “chicken farmer” while others were plotting against HIS alliance. I thought the arrogant Oscar was gone but he came back at Tribal Council when he proclaimed: “I’m not the one going home tonight.” As stated above, it could be to put doubts about our eventual winner but I think it is way too early for that. Ozzy will be blindsided. He will outlast the “naïve” Jason and laugh at his exit. Unfortunately, Ozzy will probably become over-confident, noting that he outlasted the last guy to challenge him. He will put his guard down against the women. Alexis has been seen as a fan around camp but as a fighter in challenges. As with most of her previous ones, her confessional in this episode was meaningless in terms of gameplan. Her low-key but consistent edit has to be noted as potentially being rewarded with a win if her story picks up. I’m still more inclined to think that she’s getting the strong story of the last one standing from the defeated tribe. However, she’s the one that introduced theme # 2 and she has been doing well, bonding with the Favorites, contributing to make her tribe the “good tribe” according to Jonathan. Her story could be taking off after the merge when it will be paramount to know the strengths and the weaknesses of all the veterans. Eliza claimed that Fans vs Favorites was over. She will need to make that alliance with the fans but, unfortunately, she relied on Jonathan and talked of waiting to earn the Fans’ trust. It looked like Parvati had already made a bond with Natalie. Maybe fans and favorites can sit together in front of the jury but it is early to claim an end to that battle. Eliza’s story could be that she has finally learned to “chill out” like Twila said she needed to do. It would make a wonderful story for a winner and Eliza is fun to watch when she battles her enemies. Parvati’s main shortcoming in the Cook Islands was that she wouldn’t have been able to survive on her own. Before the mutiny, Parvati had a very similar edit to that of Alexis this season. Back then, she was always in the background, never completely forgotten and all the early votes worked to her advantage even if she never had to reveal her hand. After the mutiny, Jonathan showed us how much of a pityful Survivor she was, unable to prepare a fish despite being 23 days on the island. This time, we saw Parvati following Joe, hearing her saying they had to come at night to catch the coconut crabs. Then she learned from Edwin how to catch a fish. That is a big improvement on her game. There is Jeff’s comment about her losing her balance at the last moment which could foreshadow that she will come up just short but I’ll say that Parvati’s first try during the challenge evoked her Cook Islands’ story and that, on her second attempt, Parvati makes it across! With all the care given to her edit and considering how her story fits in with the themes, I will stick my neck out and say that Parvati is our winner.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ohmyheck 1652 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-16-08, 02:53 PM (EST) 84. "RE: Thoughts on Episode #6" Great observations Michel, VS, and FP. I think that this episodes editing was very important. On Malakal, I felt we were seeing this episode through Ami's eyes. We got confessionals from her, I'm sure we got confessionals that showed how she felt about them. She thinks Ozzy's arrogant, Tracy's a sitting duck, Cirie is rude and a backstabber, Amanda is invisible, Chet's selfish and useless. At Airai, Eliza is telling us the key action. She will be their narrator for the duration of the tribal stage, which unfortunately doesn't bode well for her at the merge. I think the IC strategy had to be her idea, because they let her collect the idol from Jeff. The editors are desperately trying to show Parvati as an actual island woman, and not as a girl who sits around and flirts. They are showing her as a capable woman who has changed up her game enough to win the game. In my opinion, this episodes edit alone bodes well for Amanda, James, Parvati, Eliza and Alexis, who has turned into a fan girl that might havea strategy to play out at the end. On the flipside, this episode does not say good things for Ozzy, Tracy, Erik, Jason or Cirie. lost by tribe   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-16-08, 08:16 PM (EST) 85. "RE: Thoughts on Episode #6" LAST EDITED ON 03-16-08 AT 08:23 PM (EST) Last time on Survivor: Ozzy found the HII on Exile Island and replaced it with a decoy. The Idol put Ozzy and his alliance in control of the game. Their control was short lived. Ozzy's alliance was split... At New Airai, Jon was seriously injured and needed stitches, but they won immunity. At Malakal, Joel came up with a plan, "Chet, Cirie, Tracy", but the favs had different ideas..."Joel is a bigger threat for us then Chet." At TC the fans got a first hand lesson n how the favs operate. "The favs used Tracy and Chet to blindside Joel"...15 are left...cut to intro... Night 14 at Malakal: Shot of Ozzy, then Ami, then Tracy...Erik confesses..I was shocked by the vote, Joel just sat there in disbelief then at the end showed no emotion at all and he was gone. I felt pretty shafted, thesse guys are tough as nails, you can't trust the favorites at all. They are tanks, they have armour(shot of Ozzy then shot of Ozzy and Amanda). If the playing field has been lowered to tricking and lying(camera zooms in for a face shot of Cirie), I might just have to do some of that. Clearly, Erik was blindsided as Joel was. He is not up to the level of game play, but considers playing at their level. Note that the "armour" part of the statement showed the competitive, Ozzy, and the Lying and Tricking part showed a shot of Cirie. Still think Cirie is being edited as the "bad guy". Next morning at Malakal, First shot of Ozzy with the snorkel, then a shot of Ami and Amanda calling to Cirie to come play with us!. She responds that she will. Then Chet notes, they needed us last night, then Tracy adds, we had no other choice, Joel was flopping. It was hard to vote out Joel, they had 4, we had 4, we should have gained control over the favs. Joel was hell bent to take out Chet, get rid of my alliance,(shot of Erik) it's driving me batty not being in control of the game. We have to be positive, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. I didn't come this far to just bend over. Then we see a spider, symbolic of the web that Tracy is trying to weave... Clearly, Tracy is the fighter of the rag tag older fans. But, try as she might, her alliance is dwindling. I don't think she can save herself at this point and to me, she will be doomed next episode... Next, we see Tracy following the shot of not only the spider but the RAT as well with Erik, spinning her web with him...as Erik notes, they are vicious! Tracy adds, I think you were the next to go, they don't want to compete with you, you are a threat. They are not going to take you with them.... Erik responds, DA*N. Tracy finishes, the only thinkg that we can do is to get one of them to vote with us. If we can get one of them off, then we are back... Next we see a shot of chicken farmer, Ozzy, Cirie and Amanda. Cirie asks, What exactly are you doing, Ozzy, right now?...Amanda adds, you are like a chicken farmer, with your hat and your chicken feed. blah, blah, blah... I have no idea as to why this was shown but I can tell you that it was after the RC for ep 6 had already happened, as we have a confessional later that proves it.... Ami to Tracy: Are you doing ok? Tracy responds, I didn't fall off the truck yesterday, I just sense the shift. Ami says, where you are right now, I was 2 weeks ago...at the bottom of the old Malakal. Ami in confessional: Tracy seems like she had given up, so I went and had a pep talk with her. Then Ami tells Tracy, Even though I am at the bottom of the rung at old Malakal, I'm not gonna be poop pants, the more you are poop pants the sooner you are going out. Ami confesses that she doesn't like to see someone having a rough time. I was not part of the original alliance of James, Parvati, Cirie, Amanda, and Ozzy, so I am also in a vulnerable situation, maybe I need to play the game differently, we'll see what happens. But, I'm thinking in baby steps right now, as she chops a coconut... Then at Airai...Jonathan is seen and James asks, Your keen's alright?, huh? Jonathan responds, it's getting better...James continues, Jon has messed up his leg, hoping it will be alright, losing Jonathan would be a big blow to the team, it would ...I'm sure we will make do but it would just suck, because he's really a good motivatior, a good guy to have around, I'd be stuck over here with a bunch of girls...losing my mind... Interesting observations from James...James perhaps hoping Jonathan stays as he is good in challenges, and if he goes it will all be on his broad shoulders...knowing if he loses he is extremely vulnerable... Jonathan then asks Eliza how she is and she replies, I was given a new life by the switch up! and he admits, they are on the wrong beach but definately with the right people...clearly these two will jump to the fans and "try" to boot out Parv and James.... Elize notes, Fans vs. Favs is over in my mind, (shot of Natalie), and at new Airai we have 4 fans and 4 favs, (shot of James rubbing Parvati's back). Once we earned the fans trust, Jon and I are going to work with them to get rid of James and Parv before they can get back with Ozzy and Amanda...the game is about to get on, as Jonathan notes to Eliza, it's all good! Then the challenge...Airai wins, and Jonathan gets a very dramatic send off, with the flight of the white birds and the really sad music, and clearly Jonathan did not want to leave the game, I will not quit, interesting as this is just the complete opposite of Chet's exit...he essentially quits. Jonathan was moved to tears as were his tribemates, and especially Eliza as she sees her plan go right down the drain... Jonathan noted, I had seen the daylight, I couldn't have done anything else, I loved hanging out with all of you guys. His final words... the pleasure was mine, it really was. I was kicking ##### in this game, I couldn't have tried any harder, it was fun while it lasted, couldn't have fought any harder. Jonathan if nothing else played the game with gusto, and what a way to leave. He showed a lot of class in his exit, and I was really sad for him. Back at Airai, day 15: Parvati noting Jonathan did so well in the challenge but won’t get to reap the reward. James now noting that he is in a tribe with a bunch of girls, I’m not that persuasive in a verbal manner but these people are, the merge is all god, but it’s not in my favor right now… Parv then says that she is excited about this little guy coming to visit us, then she’s corrected, that more than one are coming… We here cheers as the natives arrive and introductions are made, we hear Parvati using her charms on one of the natives… Are you married? We can still hang out…. Then the narrator, Eliza, tells us that they welcomed Joe and Edwin and that they brought veggies, fishing line, extra machete, paring knife, fishing net, and fruits. The natives then proceed to talk about catching coconut crab, and show them how to fish, we see Parv and Eliza catching them and James exclaims to Parvati, There you go, baby! Her little pawn…Clearly Parvati is indeed paying attention to the skills that are required for a survivor! Back at Malakal We have a shot of Erik and Tracy, then we see Amanda as she exclaims, We are not working good with these people. I feel like they are slowing us down. I felt as though it was us four against the entire tribe over there…Ozzy replies, “yeah”. She continues, once again Chet was doing nothing but sitting there with the ropes, Ozzy adds, Tracy’s a builder and she didn’t do anything…Cirie adds, if there was an operating room challenge and I lost, I couldn’t go back to my job”. Note that the three of them are in the exact same position as when Ozzy the “chicken farmer” chat was. Clearly, this time frame was indeed after the RC. We are shown that the favs here are quite disappointed with their new tribemates… Then we are shown Amanda in confessional explaining, We lost the RC today – our 3rd loss in a row, we just don’t work well as a team. We need the fans to step it up. Then we hear Cirie complain, She’s what, 53 or 55, you know not only do we have to play the game, we have to teach the game too. I don’t want to teach! To me Cirie is indeed sounding like an OR nurse here, complaining about the new personel or even the student nurses. What is the old motto…see one, do one, teach one! Clearly, Cirie is not into this! Collectively, Amanda, Ozzy, and Cirie are telling us they are intolerant of the fans on their tribe. Especially Amanda and Cirie as they had confessionals regarding it….we know how they feel, will this come back to bite them, if either of these three are in front of the jury for the win? On nuAirai we see the natives showing how to capture the coconut crabs at night, then we see the fish feast that Alexis tells us is their best meal yet! Then someone asks James how do you feel about all these lovely ladies, and he's seen giving the thumbs up! Meanwhile, on EI, Chet tells Jason that he knows that Ozzy already has the idol...Jason says ok, but goes out to find it anyway....he does indeed find the fake idol that Ozzy whittled, and is very, very happy. Naive is a good word for Jason. I do think that we have not seen the last of this false idol! Cut to the IC, as we see Malakal approach, there is a zoom in of Ozzy...then the Malakal's notice that Jonathan is not with them and Jeff explains his absence. We hear from Ozzy, "Holy crapola!"...Jiffy states that Jonathan had to be evacuated, it was too risky of an infection, he's had surgery, it's been cleaned and now he is going to be fine...we are now even, 7 vs 7. Upon returning Jason responds to Jeff, I have come to the conclusion that Ozzy has already found the idol. I thought that Ozzy handled himself quite well here, saying something like, I guess we'll see in the next couple of days..., and I will give Jason points for planting a seed of doubt... The challenge is using 2 stepping poles to get 2 members of your tribe across to a platform, once across the entire tribe must go to the next platform built for 5, and get all 7 on top without falling. James and Airai are "out-thinking" the challenge, not using 2 poles but James carries the one pole as the others steady it. Malakal, still using the old strategy. James giving Airai a huge lead, they get Parvati to the tower and she spills, she must go all the way back to the start...Airai wins immunity using huge, creative thinking. Eliza swims over to get the idol. I felt that nuMalakal must have discussed losing this challenge. Clearly, I think, that Ozzy, Amanda, Cirie want to rejoin with Parvati and James and consider James and Parv to be the most at risk with Eliza, low woman on the totem pole expected to join up with the fans in order to beat them. We have seen how confident Ozzy, Amanda, and Cirie are...are they so confident that Ami will indeed vote with them against Tracy, Erik, and Chet? They sure are acting like it. Back at nuMalakal with a shot of a crab...we hear Ozzy, Amanda and Cirie discussing that they can not believe that Jonathan's gone, they expected him to go out in a ball of glory...Chet then tells them he needs a fish hook to go into his infection...they all say, no, don't do that! Chet says that he wants them to vote him out so he can get his infection cleared up...Ozzy hugs him and notes that we are dropping like flies! Later in confessional Ozzy notes, we lost the IC again, then Chet says please do me a favor and vote me out, alright Chet, we'll vote you out, was there any question?...craziness! Then there is a closeup on a snake...and we have Tracy as she speaks to Erik, if Chet wants to leave the game, I think it's wrong, he thinks it's honorable to be voted out, it's more honorable to help his longest friend, Tracy, to get one of the bigger threats out right now, like Cirie or Ozzy, shot of Ozzy with his back to the camera with Amanda...Could this represent Ozzy getting stabbed in the back??? Tracy asks, what if Ozzy has the idol? Erik says we could blindside him!!!He won't have a clue. Later in confessional Tracy notes, Chet and I are tight, it is imperative that Chet votes with us if he doesn't, I'm screwed, but I will not write his name down. So, the seed is planted to blindside Ozzy. At TC Ozzy seemed quite confident that it would not be him. Chet basically conceded and was voted out, and the favs stuck together....was there more question regarding the boot choice than we were shown, or was it edited to appear that way? Regardless, it could indeed be foreshadowing. As I have noted before, what a polar opposite ending as compared to Jonathan's. With Chet gone I suspect that the clever course to take would be for Cirie/Ozzy/Amanda to pick off the other fans, in order to save their alliance mates, whom they will most definately need come merge time...will there be discussion of them throwing challenges or no? We all know how EPMB feels about throwing challenges... Questions yet to be answered...will Eliza flop to the fans and will it make a difference? Will Ami go with Erik and Tracy and will that make a difference? Will the Malakal's throw challenges to save Parv and James? Will the fans be picked off one by one at NuMalakal? and WILL OZZY BE BLINDSIDED?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-17-08, 08:31 AM (EST) 86. "RE: Thoughts on Episode #6" A very enjoyable time for me to read the posts in this thread, thank you everyone for providing your insight. Considering a shorter week and my being late again to the party, I won't delve into the nuances of this episode. Last time on Survivor: Ozzy found the HII on Exile Island and replaced it with a decoy. The Idol put Ozzy and his alliance in control of the game. Their control was short lived. Ozzy's alliance was split... Yes, FP, I noted the emphasis as well on "Ozzy" and his alliance. The onus is put on Ozzy - should this alliance "fail" it seems as if Ozzy may bear the burden. Like the above, the "plan" seemed to have been tweaked a bit also as it stated the favorites used Tracy and Chet to blindside Joel. We all know that this was necessarily the case yet much like the remainder of the episode, the editing focused in on the naivete and inexperience of the fans and the experience and capitalization of same on the favorites. I certainly would not describe the favorites as "using" Tracy and Chet; more like the other way around While the episode did not have anything to do with the "foursome" of Ozzy, Amanda, James and Parvati, we still were made to remember it in light of the recap discussing how they were separated - not to mention some choice words made by Eliza. michel - I don't think you would be sticking your neck out to suggest Parvati winning; I believe she was a major candidate immediately from the first episode that everyone has discussed. Per my normal schedule, I will be revisting the first episode sometime after the merge which helps me to correlate the first two acts of the story. Ironically, while much dynamic played out on "Ozzy's tribe" Jonathan's words may indeed ring true: "We got the wrong beach, but we got the better tribe" Jonathan received a lovely send off and an interesting parallel to Chet's which also emodies the thematic approach this season. A favorite who is injured greatly but struggles in the suggestion to leave and a fan whose injury pales by comparison "gives up" and request to leave. The episode in its entirety was (although not entirely positive to the edits of some of the favorites) practically a lesson to the fans. Ami certainly received a spike in her editing time but considering the lack of depth and visibility thus far, it stands to reason this could be her "surge" prior to an ending as she has never been shown heavily involved in the greater storylines being presented. Eliza continues as a key narrator and her words bear listening as many narrators, while not necessarily at end game provide an insight to the course of action that will occur. It is interesting that in her thought process the split between the fans and the favorites is over (yet the forced nature of how it ISN'T over was shown quite often at the other tribe) Eliza had offered to the audience that she and Jonathan would work with the fans to get rid of Parvati and James to avoid a regrouping with Amanda and Ozzy. Alas, Jonathan left. What to make of a confessional of that nature when the plan itself has hit a snag with Jonathan leaving? Will Eliza continue on her trek or was the purpose of this confessional more about Parvati, James, Amanda and Ozzy? I also found it interesting also that James made much of his plight with all the women despite the relationship he built with Parvati (although an inserted visual did still show him washing her back ) while Ozzy and Amanda's relationship is still manifested. At this juncture, long term storylines pending are Ozzy and his idol along with everyone wanting to beat him, Jason and "his" idol, the romantic alliances, Cirie and her involvement with Parvati and Amanda and ultimately a big lesson to be learned by the fans or the favorites.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

VerucaSalt 1517 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-21-08, 10:08 AM (EST) 87. "RE: Thoughts on Episode #6" LAST EDITED ON 03-21-08 AT 10:11 AM (EST) Recap The fans and favorites were mixed Pavarti "Oh don't look so pissed off" (Second occurrence of this statement which was never included in original episode) It became obvious how much the fans suffered James "I'm amazed they're still alive, poor things..." And how much the favorites thrived Erik "Those guys are tough as nails" Further emphasis on how different this game is for the two groups The new Airai jelled immediately and went on a winning streak but lost Jonathan due to an injury On EI, Ozzy found the HII and replaced it with a decoy which was found by Jason (Noted again for emphasis) Immunity Challenge - (Jeff heard saying: "Cirie is losing it") Malakal lost third challenge in a row and Chet volunteered to be voted out and at TC, Erik got two throwaway votes while Chet got the rest leaving two fans, Tracy and Erik on Ozzy's tribe. First Act Ozzy's Tribe? The scene opens to effectively show who is perceived as calling the shots on this tribe. Tracy and Ozzy are at odds which helps set up the remainder of the episode. This was purely a "fluff" scene that was thrown in to help mold the dynamics of this tribe Ozzy (conf) "Tracy is breeding a lot of insecurity around camp; of course she is playing the game and scramble to save her own ##### but we don't need that" Note that this confessional did not actually occur this early on as he is in the same confessional as when he discusses Erik's reaction to their reward. It seems more likely that this may have occurred after they lost the immunity challenge as that would be the time that Tracy would attempt to "scramble" Tracy (conf) "Ozzy is in control of this tribe.. he tells you what you can and can't do... it's crazy. Ozzy is going to win this thing if we don't get him out of this game" (Always a nice buildup of the "person" who can't be beat which is largely Ozzy's edit this season) A Rainbow At Airai - The Irony This scene is molding this tribe's collective dynamic as opposed to some individual dynamics. Alexis and Natalie are shown ruminating over their conditions as James, the consistent worker notes the "women" and their attitude. Eliza is then shown in the next scene with them as well. James (conf) "They complain about the rain... it could be like before... just relax, we're not going to be here forever, it is a game called Survivor!" Note this confessional setting is the same as when he discusses Kathy's departure Kathy and Alexis Kathy "I don't even see where there is a sign of..." Alexis "Hope?" Kathy "No" The scene is furthered with Kathy's narration of depression and missing her family with snippets of the camp as James still observes. Again, opening scenes are shown to set up dynamic and this camp is meant to be shown in dire straits, at least by some of the womens' perspective. Second Act Malakal - Love Blooms More dynamic is presented with Erik being taken under Ozzy's wing and a relationship forming. We better understand how the end of the episode occurs in light of this scene and what others are observing. It also helped to flesh out Erik's role a bit more but alas, his role really has nothing to do with Erik as a player but rather helps to further Ozzy's edit in this game. Erik essentially establishes the bane of his edit in this scene by indicating he wants to learn and grow - NOT I want to win a million dollars. Erik (conf) "Ozzy is amazing, I honestly like Ozzy... I want to learn, I want to grow outside the small scope I've lived in and see a lot more of the world. Everyone thinks Ozzy is this wonder kid and I was like I can do that..." Ozzy shown scampering up a tree as Cirie (seemingly always present and watching) sits there and observes with the next frame then including Ami Cirie (conf) "Ozzy and Erik are like The Lion King.... and you could just see like stars. Whenever Erik says Ozzy's name, like stardust comes out of Erik's mouth" Ami and Cirie are amused over the "bonding" "I think if Ozzy proposed marriage to Erik right now, done deal!" Note that this confessional is a continuous one as Cirie is shown in the same setting as when she discusses going out on the boat and later on when she discusses that Amanda saw a different side to Ozzy The next scene was yet another "curious" scene shown at Malakal. It is ONLY important should it have ramifications as in the thousands of hours of footage, scenes are culled for essentially only two purposes - highlight a character or a foreshadowing or shaping of a future event that has impact. Cirie is taken out in the boat with Ozzy, Amanda and Erik; only to be very uncomfortable. Despite Ozzy realizing this, he continues on the boat. Considering the "plan" to take out Ozzy in this episode fell by the wayside, all the bells and whistles surrounding his "control" was a bit overkill since nothing happened to resolve this. The conflict is still there and a looming story appears to be emerging that is focusing heavily upon Cirie and Ozzy and a potential power struggle. The other members are playing supporting roles but coupling this along with the earlier scene of Cirie with Amanda and Pavarti, we have something building that may be extremely climatic. Cirie's final words were short, sweet and extremely effective and regardless how low they were spoken, they carried a lot of weight Cirie (conf) "They asked me to help move the boat, it's no secret I'm not a strong player but being a team player.... I'll help you row to the back beach... ....Ozzy decides... I'm nervous as hell" scene continues "Ozzy is about numero uno and that's Oscar" scene continues further "They're gonna have their reef adventure at my expense today but it won't happen again" this part said on the boat The Challenge Small reaction to Chet's leaving with only a brief visual of Kathy. The reward challenge of bathing products is met with enthusiasm and Natalie is the one to sit out of the challenge. Of note: Cirie initially gets her rights and lefts mixed up (which I hope does not happen to her at hospitals James barks at his tribe to listen Jeff notes "Cirie is not messing around" Ami is the one to state Jason is to be sent to EI (with no discussion noted) and a very telling moment with Ozzy telling Tracy to "take one for the team" and go to EI and miss out on a reward. Eliza noted to be waving goodbye presumably to the other tribe as both Ozzy and Amanda were shown acknowledging. I would have to suggest that most viewers are not really meant to look as kindly on Ozzy for this directive if only for the fact that this reward entailed being able to get clean and wash your hair and I would suspect that Erik would care less about that than Tracy. Ozzy easily could have offered up Erik but the preceding scenes made it painfully obvious why he did not do this. Despite many of Ozzy's wonderful qualities, the editing was not meant to show him in a favorable light for this decision The Reward And Some Eye Openers Ozzy (conf) "It was so funny seeing Erik, for once he was experiencing a reward for the first time... it was really cool; it was like a wide eyed kid in a candy store; it made me feel proud we were able to bring him in and experience this" A "titillating" shower scene ensues with Ozzy, Amanda and Ami as again, Cirie observes and comments. Cirie (conf) "My goodness, I just looked over and there were a couple of pair of boobs and Ozzy's head smack dab in the middle, the only thing funnier was Erik drooling...to each his own, if you feel free like that, by all means, I just wouldn't do it" Airai - By Contrast More depression and gloom shown surrounding this tribe as the rain pours down as Kathy provides complete narration of her perspective necessary for her exit Kathy (conf) "They show this at home... they're not showing you standing in the rain... non stop..." A subtle indication but perhaps very telling, that, as fans watching from home, perhaps did not grasp the enormity of the situation they are in. Kathy (conf cont) "We had to stand... James went out and got a clam, we had to eat a raw clam because there is no fire, sitting there eating it, we're like animals... never in a million years would I do this twice" "...I said to myself the other day this is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life..." Kathy's narrative continues to the next day as she asks James for another hug with James advising that "everyone has those days" as Kathy then discusses her feelings with her tribe on the beach Kathy "I can't take another minute, I can't...." Eliza watches helplessly Parvati "You have to be 100 percent sure..." Kathy "I can't do it anymore" Natalie "Not to make light how you are feeling but we all feel like that today, we're all going bananas and I'm not trying to make light....it's a tough day" Eliza hugs and comforts Kathy Parvati (conf) "I think it was a horrible night and it took its toll on Kathy; Kathy just really got in her head today, everything just compiled and built up, she's just severely depressed... she's done, she's quitting the game" Jeff arrives to question Kathy about her thoughts on wanting to leave with Kathy advising of same along with "I don't want anyone to think I'm quitting" Jeff notes this adventure means different things to people but confirms she wants to leave. Kathy says goodbye to her tribe James (conf) "Kathy's been through a lot but most of it is she lost her motivation... she's quitting, which is sad but I mean it's up to her; you can't fault her, you can't be upset with her, I hope she has a good trip, I'm sure I'll see her again" Jeff notes the tribe is down to six despite winning challenges, the game continues Alexis (conf) "Kathy leaving, it's sad but at the same time life goes on here and there is a reality that the sun is going down and we haven't had water in three days.. so Survivor continues for the rest of us" While Alexis does not have much in terms of huge dynamics, her words again are important to the underlying themes of this season. An extraordinary amount of time was spent on this sequence. Perhaps for only one reason and that would be to send a message on a season that it would seem most important to send. One can be a fan of this show but not yet truly appreciate how to play the game. Time will tell. Third Act Malakal - The Rumblings of a Coup Yet another interesting scene at Malakal that again is pushing a future storyline pending, a power struggle, Cirie's insertion in between the alliance of the couples, Ozzy's "control" and so forth. Again, the episode ended with none of this "plan" occurring thus, the depth all of this given (from the onset) was not "entirely" necessary to show to this degree. Obviously, the events occurred and make for good television viewing but I have found with this show that if the short term story ENDS at the short term story, the editors will not create as much manipulation. We are left with dangling, fragmented pieces that have to be tied together. Cirie is noted to be a very integral part to this. The music and mood surrounding this scene was intriguing; it was very low key and quietly shown as opposed to an abrasive manner where someone who wants to create a "power play" is shown; that person often fails. Another interesting note is that it appears Ami was "created" to be in that scene and I don't believe she was actually there. Although she was shown approaching, all her visuals "involved" were cut to her alone and a broad shot of Cirie and Amanda that was seen had no Ami in sight which reflects some heavy manipulation Cirie "I think you got a dose of who Oscar really is with the boat ride yesterday" Amanda "I am starting to see that; kinda arrogant" Cirie "Ya think?" Amanda "It's kinda bothering me" (Cirie's confessional shown) Amanda "So sad, very sad" (they laugh) (Confessional continues as Ami "approaches") Amanda "I've been trying to figure it out if people really think Ozzy's the best thing in the world or they're just playing" Cirie "Did you hear Erik? He was like oh my God if he wasn't here, we'd die! I was like shut up Erik!" "How can we vote Erik out, how many of us is it? Cuz Ozzy is not going to vote Erik" Note this is all done in narrative while scenes of Ozzy and Erik are shown "He's kinda in love with Erik right now...he'll never get rid of Erik" Again, at this point Ami, inserted in solo shots is nowhere to be found when the camera at this time shows the entire area with Ami not there (Ami now "shown") Amanda "I think it's the best move to make" Cirie "To get rid of Erik?" Amanda "Maybe" Cirie "Ozzy's not gonna do it" Amanda "We just have to let him think he's in complete control" Cirie "Mmm hmmm" Cirie (conf) "Amanda got to see there's a selfish arrogant part to Ozzy" and "and if I got that out of the trip, okay I can suck it up because there was a benefit to it, letting her see Ozzy is about Ozzy" The Challenge The tribes meet and Jeff announces Kathy left the game. Cirie: "Kathy?!" Ami: "What!!?" and Jason and Tracy then come back from EI - you will note that Exile Island was never shown which should have been a clear indication if any that Tracy's time was over and Jason's story appears only limited to what may occur as a result of his finding the phony idol. Jeff advises Kathy sent word she wanted out of the game (more reaction from Ami - our moral compass for the fans?) with "she quit" Of note: Ozzy's incredible (again) performance Ozzy's directive to Erik to go next which results in Erik struggling and Ozzy's reaction Everyone's trouble on the bridge (exception Ozzy) Despite one man's athleticism, a tribe can still lose. Fourth Act The Best Laid Plans Amanda "Hey Oz, I'm so sorry about the puzzle; I feel like crap about it" (Cirie is with them and Ami then approaches) Ozzy "It's alright, none of us are going home" Cirie "Yeah but which one of them" Ozzy "We need to keep Erik" (a pause as the shot focuses on the ladies) Ami (conf) "Ozzy wants Erik to stay because he's got a good relationship with Erik but I just feel like I can work more with Tracy, she's more into the game and being third or fourth among Cirie, Ozzy and Amanda is definitely something that is always on my mind. Could I betray him if it comes down to that, sometimes you have to pull the dirty card if you want to stay in the game" Ami "The girls want to get rid of Erik, Ozzy wants to get rid of you, it was his idea to send you to Exile.... ....and you, me and Erik can vote Ozzy and get Ozzy out of here" Ami (conf) "The plan that Tracy and I talked about is... ...underneath all of that Tracy, Erik and I are going to vote for Ozzy and just take Ozzy out at the knees" Tracy (to Erik) "Hey, I am writing Ozzy's name down" "You're next after me" Erik (conf) "In order to pull off voting Ozzy off at this point we have to pull in either Cirie and Amanda, if this doesn't work out, I have to vote for Tracy; if I vote Ozzy with Tracy, they would flip out and I would be so done...." (A spider and its web) Tracy "Well I know Ozzy hates me but I'd like to stay; you gotta think right now you wanna go up against me or against Ozzy?..." Ami "I'm willing to vote Erik as long as you two stay with us..." (The scene moves then to Cirie and Amanda alone) Cirie "So you are going with Erik right?" Amanda "Well, yeah, are you?" Cirie "I'm just worried what Ozzy might have planned on the other side with Erik and those girls" Amanda (conf) "If I was definitely set on wanting Erik gone, he'd be gone tonight I guarantee you but I don't know at this point if I'll want to turn on Ozzy if I go against Ozzy, I could pretty much kiss that relationship goodbye, I mean there is so many people you have to vote out, you're gonna hurt someone's feelings in this game, it's inevitable" Cirie "What's it gonna be ladies?" Amanda "Don't look at me!" Ami (conf) "If Cirie and Amanda don't vote with me there's a whole other path to be taken, I'm kinda going both ways in my head still. Am I going to take Ozzy out or am I going to stick with these people I've known since the beginning and vote out one of the fans. Tonight is a very big decision, it could change the game in a serious way" Interesting to note Amanda's very strong confessional which bodes well for her (although her involvement in the complex story lines has already established that. A strong force is shown that supercedes Ozzy's physical "powers" and although Ami has been noted to attempt and stir things up, the execution is never in her hands, it is deferred to Cirie and Amanda. I'm quite intrigued by a whisper of a shift in Amanda's edit which is difficult to place but it gives me pause. I'm also quite taken at the strong measures put forth with Cirie's edit. I had mentioned at the beginning of the season that in a "storybook" ending would it not be lovely for the "ultimate" fan to conquer the favorites and interestingly enough, when Kathy spoke this episode, I immediately thought of Cirie’s first confessional in the first episode.... "People at home identify with me, I'm like the person at home watching, on the couch remember? I was the couch potato" What complete irony and amusement would it not be for the prototype of the "person at home watching" (i.e., a fan) to come in to THIS particular season (fans vs. favorites) and actually represent the best of both worlds and succeed? It certainly doesn’t hurt that Kathy advised on EI that “Cirie has learned a lot” Tribal Council Jeff notes this tribe is in trouble (much to the amusement of Ozzy and Amanda who are shown giggling - note that this should never be perceived as a positive and a mark against both of them) They have lost three straight immunity challenges and the reason they are half way in it is because of odd circumstances (Tracy) with Penner having to be medically pulled out of the game and Kathy deciding to quit (musical emphasis noted on this) Jeff asks Tracy who is leading this tribe Tracy "Ozzy. Ozzy's leading this tribe. (Ozzy shown laughing - note that Amanda and Ozzy shown laughing above may have been deliberately taken out of sequence which begs the question why would the editors want to show the two of them finding the state of their tribe amusing?) I mean Ozzy is the first one who looked at me and said you need to go to Exile Island for the tribe. Ozzy tells us who is going to compete (Ami) when you're gonna eat and what you're gonna eat." Jeff notes Ozzy's big reaction Ozzy "It's ridiculous; if I'm the leader of this tribe, I don't know about it. (Tracy has a face) I do what needs to be done at certain times (Cirie contemplating) I really don't feel like I'm the leader of the tribe and I definitely (Erik nodding) don't think I'm deciding who eats what when, that doesn't make any sense, that doesn't jive with me at all" Jeff questions Cirie that someone has to be leading the tribe in some fashion Cirie "In a way I kinda see where Tracy's coming from. I'm not saying Ozzy is the leader of the tribe but just about 90 percent of everything we do, everyone checks with Ozzy first" (Ami then Erik are shown) Jeff asks Erik if he sees what "everyone" is talking about (note that only two people were shown talking about this) Erik "There's a conflict going on, there's a conflict in this tribe (Cirie not "buying" this) and I understand Ozzy's point. Nobody wants to be leader but (Tracy) things need to get done, things need to happen and he's doing so much for this tribe (again Cirie not quite "buying" this) and if he was gone we would fall apart faster than we are right now" Jeff questions Ami on short or long term thinking Ami "...you are always looking out for which one of these people is going to be the biggest threat (Cirie) to me and (Tracy) when is the best time to get rid of them (Ozzy) and you gotta play your cards when it makes the most sense" Jeff asks Ozzy if it makes him concerned about what Ami states Ozzy "Oh yeah it does. (Tracy) I'm not that naive to think that people don't want me gone (Erik nodding - cut to Cirie) They need me to win challenges, I'm still going to give it my all; I'm still going to be loyal to the people I said I would be loyal to (Amanda) the people I said... nothing's going to change that. If I'm a threat and people want to get rid of me, that's one strategy but the other strategy is they can work with me and we can try to go to the end together" (Ami) Jeff asks Tracy why they should keep her Tracy "I think I would be a better tribe member than someone who is going to demolish you (Ozzy) if you go to the merge" (cymbal crash) that needs to be something these people think about. I would be less of a threat to Ami, to Amanda, to Cirie, than Ozzy, it's as simple as that..." The voting is done: Ozzy "You said you're honest and that's bull" Tracy "Because you wanted me out. Good player, no hard feelings" A slightly different feeling that comes with these two statements and a wink from Tracy to Ami a she returns from voting. Reactionary shots from Ozzy, Ami, Tracy and Amanda during the vote reveal and Tracy leaves. Jeff indicates that they need to start winning challenges and time will tell if the decision they made was the right one with Cirie's face shown. At this juncture, the true story might not be about the player who ends this game as the ultimate Survivor; it appears the true story IS about fans vs. favorites and that may cloud what people perceive to be in looking for the “winner” (I’ve always been more of who are the end game players myself ) However, tying in with this, I would still go back to those who had opening confessionals and as it stands now, Parvati, Cirie, Ozzy and James are those who are left. James’ confessional was one of being a fan himself and his edit still consists of the strong guy that has not mastered the “other” portion of the game. James is a strong character but alas not a strong contender. Ozzy, unfortunately is almost becoming a caricature of the “one to be beat” and while adequately drenched in long term stories, these stories seem to use him to develop as opposed to his developing them. The romantic alliance and the hidden idol seem more about the women in the romantic alliance and his story with the idol seems more about what the idol (and/or the fake idol) will do. He appears to be a supporting player cloaked in the role of a star and while his social game seemed to improve, it seems to have only improved in only the narrowest of sense. Parvati indicated she would be coming back to play aggressively and that her “flirtation” strategy would only be part/parcel of how she would play this game. While it stands to reason that the editors are still making the audience aware that she employs her “femme fatale” persona, editing has not manipulated it to appear that she is ridiculous in doing so. Thus far, it has worked effectively and even Jonathan admitted to the power she has - this can only validate her methods as opposed to demean it. Parvati has also been shown to indicate that her “strategy” is methodical as indicated by her conversation with Amanda and Cirie in the boat and we see that she is planning on joining forces with some fans who are all women. Editing could simply employ certain visuals (recall when Parvati was painted as lazy in her season and this was validated by her laying around, flirting with the boys - none of this has been shown) or sounds (music accompanying Jason when finding the idol and his crowing about it solidly reflected him to be a fool as an example, we have not seen this when Parvati takes on her “flirting” role) to make Parvati appear boxed in to her flirting corner. We see that Parvati is not just utilizing men for her purposes. Cirie has been a force to reckon with thus far and is firmly implanted in long term stories. As I mentioned earlier, there is some irony in seeing the “first” couch potato competing in a season with those who were picked because they are true fans of the show who sit home watching thinking they want or can do this. Cirie is actually quite a nice mix of a veteran and “fan” at the same time as she herself said people at home “identify with me” I found with every nuance of negativity emanated from Cirie seems to have the editors then shoot forth a splatter of that fun personality as well perhaps for some balance. Of the others still in the mix, Eliza is still a wonderful narrator though I am bit dismayed that we did not get any insight from her after Jonathan left. Her “precarious” standing was affected greatly and I can’t fathom that she did not have strong feelings about this; it would have fared better for her long term to hear from her how this will affect her in the game and what she has to do about it. Amanda has been an integral part of the long term story although her edit has been bland in comparison to those she is firmly involved with. However, I would never make the mistake in overlooking someone purely based upon less face time as the editors also employ cloak and dagger techniques. Ami, sadly seems to be building up for an ending as opposed to a end goal though I must say I am enjoying how Ami is being portrayed. As indicated, she appears to be the moral compass and sympathetic to their plight but as of now her “big moves” appear to be nothing but inflated balloons that get popped. There are some subtle indications of a “square off” with Cirie that may end her role on the island. As for the fans.... Jason’s story is now tied solely to the false idol and the editors are not being kind to him; it does not appear to end well for Jason. Erik’s story is the extension of Ozzy and he may get his wish that he learn and grow from this experience. The women who are left Alexis and Natalie appear to be safe for now although Natalie has been sorely neglected. At the very least, the editors did advise us that she is playing low key and keeping her head down (straight from her mouth) so why would the audience question otherwise? This is not a “hidden player” this is a player who is hiding so I am not dissatisfied that we are not “seeing” Natalie as we were told point blank, we probably would not. Alexis has been given a firm role in progressing the themes of the season and despite a lack of big presence she has been manipulated. What will be interesting is to see is how her first episode commentary is dealt with in the editing. Her notion that they may have experience but WE know their strengths and weaknesses may be an important role for her in keeping her head above water. The question then is how will she fare against those favorites who perhaps have new strengths and have learned from their prior experience?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Georgianna 514 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 03-21-08, 01:17 PM (EST) 88. "RE: Thoughts on Episode #6" I had mentioned at the beginning of the season that in a "storybook" ending would it not be lovely for the "ultimate" fan to conquer the favorites and interestingly enough, when Kathy spoke this episode, I immediately thought of Cirie’s first confessional in the first episode.... "People at home identify with me, I'm like the person at home watching, on the couch remember? I was the couch potato" What complete irony and amusement would it not be for the prototype of the "person at home watching" (i.e., a fan) to come in to THIS particular season (fans vs. favorites) and actually represent the best of both worlds and succeed? Yes!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 17981 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-21-08, 01:50 PM (EST) 89. "RE: Thoughts on Episode #6" As usual, an excellent job of summarizing the episode and pointing out various editing situations, VS - and as usual, you leave me satisfied to the point where I don't feel I need to offer a lot of insight. I did want to comment on "The Ozzy Show" ... >... on Ozzy's tribe. >(Always a nice buildup of the "person" who can't be >beat which is largely Ozzy's edit this season) >Of note: >Ozzy's incredible (again) performance >Ozzy's directive to Erik to go next which results in Erik >struggling and Ozzy's reaction >Everyone's trouble on the bridge (exception Ozzy) >Despite one man's athleticism, a tribe can still lose. >Tracy "I think I would be a better tribe member than >someone who is going to demolish you (Ozzy) if you >go to the merge" (cymbal crash) With these mentions of Ozzy, I'm getting a really strong sense of foreshadowing that the only thing that is going to beat Ozzy this season is ... himself. We're being repeatedly hammered over the head tha