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"I needed a drink after that"
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 07:25 PM (EST)
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"I needed a drink after that"
I have to tell you, even though I get to sit ringside and watch and write about a good many big fights, I don't think I will ever get used to being there when one of my friends is fighting. Damn. I was all but chewing my fingernails off at first, and after the second round I was a little concerned that Ishe was fighting too much like it was a ten-rounder; I was a little afraid that Tony might outhustle him. And then in round five, I was worried that Tony was going to bodyslam him, climb the top turnbuckle and do an elbow drop.

Still, good win for Ishe -- which, frankly, it needed to be. He needs to dominate people like Bonsante if he's to take it to the next level. Tony just isn't in his class as a boxer.

In the back afterward, as is almost always the case after a fight, everything was real cordial. Tony came up to Ishe, both said, "No hard feelings." Then Tony said to Ishe, "I have to ask you something. Be honest. Be totally honest. Did I ever, at any stage of that fight, hurt you." "No," said Ishe. "Nah," smiled Tony, "I didn't think so."

We were all especially pleased with Ishe's defense. I don't know how clear it came through on the streamed video, if you could see everything or not, but Ishe was slipping and parrying some of Tony's flurries beuatifully.

Anyway, as Ishe went to watch the next fight, I stood with Joe and exhaled. "Man, I can't watch my friends fight," I said. "It's hard work. I need a drink."

One other thing: I have to say, the atmosphere in that arena was tremendous. Very impressive. The enthusiasm of the crowd for the fighters was through the roof.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Well... AyaK 05-24-05 1
   RE: Well... VegasFightWriter 05-24-05 2
       RE: Well... TroyGun25 05-24-05 5
           RE: Well... zombie29 05-24-05 6
               RE: Well... AlgeCrumpler 05-25-05 13
           RE: Well... VegasFightWriter 05-24-05 7
           RE: Well... jenniferlyn 05-24-05 8
               RE: Well... VegasFightWriter 05-24-05 9
                   RE: Well... jenniferlyn 05-25-05 10
                   RE: Well... TroyGun25 05-25-05 14
                       RE: Well... VegasFightWriter 05-25-05 15
                           this is for VFW stephs47 05-25-05 16
                               RE: this is for VFW VegasFightWriter 05-25-05 22
                           RE: Well... TroyGun25 05-25-05 20
                               RE: Well... AlgeCrumpler 05-25-05 21
                   RE: Well... mtopaz 05-25-05 19
               RE: Well... PhoenixMons 05-25-05 11
                   RE: Well... jenniferlyn 05-25-05 12
 RE: I needed a drink after that ARnutz 05-24-05 3
 RE: I needed a drink after that madkata 05-24-05 4
   RE: I needed a drink after that Wacko Jacko 05-25-05 17
       RE: I needed a drink after that PhoenixMons 05-25-05 18

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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 07:30 PM (EST)
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1. "Well..."
...other than the second round, the fight was all Ishe.

I have to admit that I was surprised by Bonsante's total disregard of the rules. Punches in the back of the head, pushes, and especially the body lift are tings that I've never seen outside of a Mike Tyson fight. i figured Anthony would chew on some ear next.

What did you all think of Anthony's tactics?

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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 07:38 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Well..."
There were a lot of comments along the lines of "Was that boxing or the WWF?" (I guess boxing people don't keep up with wrestling and haven't learned that it's been the WWE for years). The roughhousing was definitely getting to Ishe; after the fourth, he said he went back to the corner and told Joe something like, "I'm done with this, I'm going to go take him out." Which he nearly did, and but for the bodyslam (which took a lot out of him, he admitted), might have done so.

Yeah, by the third, I began to settle down a little, realizing that Ishe looked to have it in the bag. My concern was less that he might not win, but that he needed to win impressively. He wants to go on and fight people like Kassim Ouma, so he needs to swat the Anthony Bonsantes of the world away with relative ease.

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TroyGun25 27 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 10:03 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Well..."
Hey VFW, I have a question for you. Is it true that Ishe came out wearing a #1 Dad hat like Bonsante? I didn't see the fight and from what I've read on this message board he did wear that hat. As you may or may not know, Bonsante's kids gave him his hat and in my eyes Ishe was mocking Bonsante, which is completely classless. I won't sit here and say that Bonsante is in the same class of boxer as Ishe because I don't think that at all. Ishe is a great boxer and I actually pegged him early on in the show to make it to Vegas. But as far as class goes, this stunt by Ishe by mocking Bonsante's devotion to his kids is totally classless and he needs to grow up.

And before anyone goes off saying how Bonsante used his kids, take this into consideration: All the other fighters have wives at home taking care of the kids...Bonsante is doing that job plus fighting plus training plus working nights all by himself.

VFW, you're Ishe's friend so I hope you can tell him that what he did showed how childish he is and maybe the way Ishe was portrayed on the show is actually how he is in real life.

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zombie29 11 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 10:24 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Well..."
I agree, Ishe has no class with the whole hat thing. I had no problem with him until tonight. I don't think he will do anything against real good fighters anyway. All you Brent lovers, don't be saying Anthony deserves it. Brent didn't even belong on the show. I hope Ishe is able to work a job like Anthony and support his family if fighting doesn't work for him.
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AlgeCrumpler 39 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 10:43 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Well..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-05 AT 10:44 AM (EST)

Man, don't be so uptight. That hat was hilarious! I laughed my butt off! The fight was so strange and exciting, and that was a fitting end.

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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 11:18 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Well..."
I didn't see the hat, although somebody mentioned it in the back afterward. I don't think he wore it out to the ring; from what I saw he just wore his robe. I think he put it on at the end. I could be wrong.

Ishe mentioned at the press conference that he had no respect for the way Anthony carried himself, the way he portrayed himself a the #1 dad. "I think I'm the #1 dad," he said. "Well, I've got the hat," said Anthony. The producers decided to play up that angle: it was (oddly, I thought) all that the ring announcer kept beating on at the beginning. "It's a Father's Day fight. Who is the Contender's #1 dad?" Etc Etc. Ishe won, and put on the hat.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it at all. Perhaps (maybe probably) I would feel different if the roles were reversed. Ishe said from Day One that he strongly objected to the way Anthony used his kids as a rationale for beating up Brent instead of fighting Jimmy Lange. Anthony double-crossed the others, backed out of an agreed fight, and risked Brent's health. Ishe wore a hat. Big deal.

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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 11:33 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Well..."
On the vid clips shown on the contender website, the announcer said that Anthony was wearing his famed "#1 Daddy" hat, and that Ishe was wearing a "no he's not" hat. (VFW I know Ishe is your friend, BUT...) Ishe complained in the beginning of the show (and with good cause in my opinion) that boxing was corrupt, that he'd had bad experiences with it, and that he came to the Contender wanting to change all that. However, with that hat he wore, he was the picture of bad attitude, doing NOTHING to make the sport of boxing look any better. He may have won his fight (and I agree he's a boxer whereas Anthony is just a brawler) but I was thoroughly disgusted and disappointed that Ishe would sink that low.

One last thing, too bad they changed the fight to be between Ishe and Anthony, I was looking forwared to seeing whether Ishe thought it OK for HIM to knock Brent out, especially since he threw such a hissy when Anthony did. But I give Ishe his due, he won, and more power to him!! Good luck with your career!

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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 11:46 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Well..."
Oh, is that what the hat said? Like I said, I didn't see it. I'm sorry, I chuckled when I read your post. I really don't see why it's that big of a deal, I really don't. If Anthony's hat had been hand-stitched by his terminally ill kid or something, then yeah, OK. But there's millions of those #1 Dad hats around. I'll wager pretty much every dad has a bunch of #1 Dad stuff; I know mine does. The difference is that the other fighters (especially Ishe, but not uniquely so) felt that, whereas most dads say, "Thanks kids," Anthony appeared to act as if he thought he had actually won some kind of #1 dad competition. (If, in fact, I am wrong, and in fact there is some deeper meaning to the hat beyond the clearly genuine and deeply felt love that motivated his kids to give it to him, then OK, mea culpa).

Maybe I'm inured to the kind of trash talking that goes on in this sport. I've heard one fighter promise to send his opponent to join his recenty-deceased mother, and promise another that after he made his wife a widow, he would "take care" of her. Now THAT's going too far. Wearing a hat? Not even on the lower end of the scale. I'm sorry, I really do think it was kinda funny. Like I said, maybe if the roles were reversed I'd feel differently. I'm not pretending to be objective here.

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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 00:51 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Well..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-05 AT 00:57 AM (EST)

Just saw the show, and Ishe's hat actually said "I'M the #1 daddy", so not sure why the announcer said that, you can hear it in the beginning of the vid clip of the Fraza vs Cooper fight. I agree, what it REALLY said isn't bad...so I apologize for assuming the announcer knew what the HELL he was talking about! Damn, last time I believe everything I see/hear on TV!!! LOL

And I have to add that after finally getting to see the whole Ishe vs Anthony fight, ANTHONY didn't do much for the reputation of boxing either, now THERE'S a disappointment!! Money isn't everthing, even if it IS to send your kids to college as you say!! But i still think at times Ishe needs a bit of an attitude adjustment, the only thing is, you can add Anthony to that list as well!!

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TroyGun25 27 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 12:06 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Well..."
VFW, I don't think you're understanding my point. Those kids are all, and I mean all, Anthony has in his life. That is what he lives for, as I'm sure Ishe lives for his kids. But there's a huge difference between Ishe and Anthony as far as being a father goes. Anthony doesn't have a wife to burden the load with, as does Ishe, as does Manfredo, as does Jonathon Reid, as does Jesse. He does it all by himself. And that hat does mean everything to Anthony, he wears it all the time, it's a symbol. He takes to heart that he is the SOLE provider for his kids. How many guys do you know that are single dads trying to make it in the world of boxing and still give their kids a good life? There aren't many out there.

For Ishe to wear that hat cheapens what it means to Anthony. The only reason Ishe wore it was to jab Anthony, the hat and the words and the reason behind that hat have absolutely NO meaning to Ishe, but they mean the world to Anthony, that's all I'm saying.

Again, Ishe is a superior boxer, Anthony is not in his class and Anthony picking up Ishe was ridiculous. But outside the ring, in the world of being a father, which is a much more important job than boxing, Anthony is head and shoulders above Ishe.

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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 12:30 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Well..."
I think I do understand your point, and you're right, he did do it to jab Anthony. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal, frankly. (I'm also not a parent, which may color my thinking. If I were, perhaps I could understand it better).

I certainly don't mean to belittle the clearly genuine mutual adoration between Anthony and his kids. His kids appear to worship him, and he them. I don't think Ishe means to belittle it, either. But his beef was with the way in which Anthony used his kids as a justification for beating the tar out of Brent, who also has kids who would have been devastated had Brent been carried out on a stretcher after Anthony pummeled him.

Obviously, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, which is cool. I must say, however, that I really don't think it is possible to determine that one man is "head and shoulders" above another as a father without knowing, or having even met, either of them.

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stephs47 68 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 12:38 PM (EST)
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16. "this is for VFW"
Just wondering if you were in attendance for the Manfredo/Sergio fight. I am a huge Manfredo fan (and I still will be), I just wanted to know if you were there, what you thought about the fight! And what Ishe thought about it. I wondered what kind of atmosphere is was, especially when you could tell that Peter was emotional and thought that he won. The look on his face when they called Sergio's name was priceless. I'm not writing so everyone will start ranting and raving about how Sergio clearly beat him (we've been there and done that), only wanting VFW's opinion! Thanks so much...Stephanie
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 08:49 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: this is for VFW"
Hi, sorry for the delay in replying, I was out all day. No, I wasn't at the final. I didn't have a ticket, and although someone slipped me a participant's credential, I just knew that if I tried to use it, it would all end in tears. (I'd end up carrying Sergio's spit bucket or something). But if the atmosphere was anything like the morning, and I'm sure it was better, it would have been tremendous. As for the fight: still haven't seen it, but the consensus opinion here in town is that (a) it was good quality stuff; and (b) that Sergio won, although maybe not by the official margins. Most folks had it something like five rounds to two.
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TroyGun25 27 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 01:20 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Well..."
Now that I think about it, I shouldn't have judged Ishe that he's isn't as good of a father as Anthony because you're right, I don't know him at all. I'm sure he loves his kids to death. Also, being a parent, I can't imagine having to raise my daughter by myself and Anthony has two kids, he leads a completely different life as Ishe, not better or worse, but surely more difficult because Anthony doens't have someone to shoulder the burden with.

But I think that Ishe's so called beef with Anthony and the way he beat down Cooper is a little over the top. Cooper didn't belong on this show and for that matter he doesn't belong in boxing. The guy is horrible. Granted, Anthony played up the beating he gave Cooper too much, it wasn't that big of a conquest. And granted, the way Anthony talked about his kids was schmaltzy at times, but it was genuine. I think that whoever would've fought Cooper would've beaten him as bad as Anthony did. And if Anthony never would've picked Cooper and Joey fought him the way it was originally set up, Joey would've killed him as well.

Answer this, what would Ishe have done if the matches weren't reshuffled and he would've had to fight Cooper? Would Ishe have taken it easy on him or maybe fought with his right hand duct taped behind his back? Somehow I doubt it.

So, yes, we'll just have to agree to disagree and I appreciate your responses.

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AlgeCrumpler 39 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"

05-25-05, 01:42 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Well..."
TroyGun,

What Ishe did was funny. It was a jab at Bonsante, but that is part of boxing. Everyone knew it was a joke, so don't be so upset.

Secondly, your point about Ishe would've fought hard against Brent is meaningless. Ishe was not mad at Anthony for fighting hard, he was mad that Anthony chose that fight to begin with. Since Ishe had no control over who he fought yesterday, how can you even compare it? In fact, Ishe was lobbying to have the fight switched to a harder opponent.

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mtopaz 2167 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 01:08 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Well..."
I thought the hat was funny too. I've felt all season that Anthony is bragging about his fatherhood. You know, if you're a parent, single or otherwise, it's your job to support and take care of your kids. Don't walk around crowing for doing your damn job, kay? I'm a single mom, there's no one else but me taking care of my kid, paying the bills, working full time. But I'm not walking around every day wearing a "#1 Mom" hat, t-shirt, or anything else bragging about how I'm such a great mom. I'm just a mom, doing my job. And I don't use my motherhood as an excuse to pull cheap stunts to get ahead either.

Sig pic by JSlice

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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 00:59 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Well..."
The hat said "I'm the #1 Dad" (or something very similar) not, "no you're not" or anything of that sort.

The announcer said "it's a father's day fight"...one claims he's the number one daddy, the other says "no he isn't".

Big difference there.

I can't wait to hear what Ishe has to say about the wording/editing of the show now that it's over. I have a feeling Ishe is not the one who chose the words that were used in announcing him prior to the fight.

And Ishe wasn't throwing a hissy because Anthony knocked Brent out (that's what boxing is all about, after all)...he was upset because of the way in which Anthony was pounding his chest after he'd beaten Brent to a bloody pulp as if it were some huge accomplishment to beat the 'weakest link'. Anthony didn't need to hurt Brent (and I believe I recall him saying he was trying to hurt him)...that's why Ishe (and many viewers, myself included) were distraught by Anthony's actions.


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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 02:00 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Well..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-25-05 AT 02:03 AM (EST)

I agree there's lots of room for differences of opinions, depending on how you see a situation, and especially because we never see all of the footage that was taped for a reality show, but I still think Ishe was being a jerk towards the end of the show, and it all started after Anthony decided he wasn't going to abide by the team's decision on who he should fight. I sure call throwing stuff around their living quarters and boycotting the reward for the West throwing a tantrum.

And i also ammended my comment about the hats, as I misinterpreted what the announcer said.

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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 07:39 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: I needed a drink after that"
Man, when Anthony picked Ishe up I was afraid he was going to pile drive him. Anthony is a loser and has no respect for the whole thing.

Anyway, I bet it was exciting there. It was exciting to watch on the web.

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madkata 54 desperate attention whore postings
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05-24-05, 07:53 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: I needed a drink after that"
Hey VFW/KM -- as always, thanks for the inside scoop! A very funny conversation indeed b/w Ishe and Anthony afterwards!!!

I'm so GLAD Ishe won, and so completely as well. I have to say, it was the weirdest thing I've ever seen (since I haven't watched a lot of boxing before), I thought, "Hey, they can pick people UP in boxing?! What a strange shot of Ishe in the air -- and he went up so nicely too, practically choreographed!

Hope you had a nice long stiff one afterwards (what's your poison?) -- I know what you mean about watching your friends perform... I once worked with/for an Olympic Figure Skater who'd actually won the Gold... and everytime he got in there to do a triple axel (even though they're still the best In The World!), it still made me ill in anticipation of it!

Thanks again -- now, I have to stay off the boards until after the fight(s)... for once, I wanna be surprised!

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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 12:47 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: I needed a drink after that"
The hat thing is over blown. Me and my wife thought it was funny. Ishe NEVER said Anthony was a bad dad. He never made any cracks about Anthony's kids. I heard a comment somewhere from Ishe where he talked about the way boxers were edited. Anthony was 'the #1 dad' and ishe was almost edited as the bad guy. Ishe thought that the fuss made about Anthonys kids was ridiculous because Ishe loves his kids just as much. So I believe that it was more of a crack at the producers of the show than it was at Anthony.

VegasWriter, we gotta remember here that most of these people do not have any idea about what really goes on in boxing. What happened in this show was so kindergarden in comparison. Any one remember when Mike Tyson told another boxer he wanted to eat his kids....stuff like that is common. Ishe is a great guy in my opinion and you gotta remember that people watch these reality shows to pick apart people. This show is no different than Survivor when it comes to criticism of the contestents.

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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-05, 12:55 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: I needed a drink after that"
The other boxer was Lennox Lewis (I'll never forget that press conference...Lennox is one of my fave boxers), btw.

And yes, press conferences and the media stuff before and after fights are all about show-boating and trash-talking. The #1 dad hat thing was funny and was exactly what I'd expect in the world of boxing.

I have a feeling that the contestants on this show were probably not expecting it to be so much like Survivor and were expecting much more 'real' boxing than what they got. I don't think The Contender did much good at all for the world of boxing, which is a shame since it REALLY could have if the producers had done a better job.


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