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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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"WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY"
VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-23-05, 02:50 AM (EST)
 
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"WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
I'M SERIOUS GUYS. THESE ARE NOT RUMORS. THIS IS WHAT GOES DOWN ON SUNDAY. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW, PICK ANOTHER THREAD TO READ.I'M SERIOUS.
STILL READING? OK, HERE WE GO ...
I did some major digging, and determined the following: 1) There are indeed two fights on Sunday, and they are the ones that everyone has been speculating about: Ahmed vs Alphonso, and Ishe vs Sergio 2) Two factions have emerged: Ishe, Alphonso, and Sergio; and Jesse, Joey, Peter, and Anthony. 3) In the second round, the challenges are individual challenges. The winner gets to either call out a fighter, or make two other fighters fight. 4) Jesse and Ishe get into it big time in the loft in Sunday's episode. Jesse tells Ishe he wants to fight him if he wins the challenge. 5) Jesse wins the challenge, and calls out Ishe ... to fight Sergio. 6) In a very close fight, Ishe has Sergio out on his feet at the bell. Sergio has to be helped back to his corner. 7) In the first split decision, the judges score, two to one, for Sergio. 8) The crowd boos the decision, and everyone seems astonished, including Sergio. 9) The show apparently does NOT hint at the closeness and controversy, and does NOT show Sergio being helped back to his corner. From what I have heard, anyone who watches the fight will not know that it was controversial. This was NOT from Ishe, who refuses to tell me a d@#n thing. Even so, I am highly confident it is legit, although I doubt that I'll be able to get anything out of my sources in the future. Given the way the show has portrayed Ishe, it will be VERY interesting to see how they handle this on Sunday.
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pdaj 47 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-23-05, 04:44 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Wow, part of me didn't want to read this post ..But I couldn't help it! Aside from the controversial decision, the next big issue is, what do we make of Jesse passing on the opportunity to fight Ishe? Sure -- as we've all discussed before, stratedy is a major part of the show .. but what about the man's pride? I can think of several instances in the show where Jesse said, "I'll fight him," "I hope he picks me," and "I'm not afraid of him!" It'll be interesting to discuss this later in the week. That being said, I'm extremely disappointed to hear about the fight's controversy being "swept under the rug." There's really no excuse for that. VFW -- Any word on the Alfonzo/Ahmed battle?
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-23-05, 12:31 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
I was so wrapped up in the news I was given surrounding Ishe/Sergio/Jesse that I forgot to ask about Ahmed and Alfonso. Maybe I'll find out today. (I'm at Caesars Palace for tonight's big fight, along with a few well-connected and loose-lipped sources).
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ARnutz 13792 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-23-05, 04:54 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-23-05 AT 05:44 PM (EST)Foo! This is not good news for me. Ishe is my favorite and if he loses, I'll be beside myself. Especially if it is in the manner that you have suggested. The friggin' producers are going to hide the fact that is was a questionable call? Well that's just bull! Looking at who is left, I may just stop watching the show.  Don't quote me on that... I'll decide after Sunday. Those who actually earned the second round by winning: 1. Ishe - is supposed to lose Sunday in a questionable and well hidden controversial call.
2. Alfonso - I like him too, but if he loses to Ahmed I'll be pissed.
3. Joey - like him, but does he really have a shot? ETA: Given his new job with Sly, probably not.
4. Sergio - he's alright, but not too exciting.
5. Anthony - gutless worm.
6. Jesse - a$$. Shouldn't have been given a free ride to the second round, IMO: 7. Peter - voted back in.
8. Ahmed - voted back in. It would have been better if Peter and Ahmed had to earn their way back in by fighting each other. Whoever wins gets to stay and go on to the final four and whoever loses goes back home.
This show was the best show I had seen in a long time until after Najai fought and was defeated. Since then, with each passing week it just gets worse.
They certainly won't be gaining any viewers from here on out and I would bet that a lot of those who were watching have lost interest. Now I'm curious about what the recent ratings look like. 
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finalround 58 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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04-23-05, 11:21 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Ishe is out tomorrow, they ripped him off. The producers must not have liked him, thus the crooked decision. Alfonso does beat Ahmed. Though Ahmed was not ready for the fight. He never expected to be brought back. No one should have been brought back. They should have had alternates. If anyone should have been brought back it should have been Tarick, since he took Juan out of the competition. Jessie is all talk. If he tought he could have bet Ishe he would have fought him. Jessie and Joey are the two stratigists in the competition. I wanted to see guys fight it out, not play head games and try to sneak by every week. Remember the longer they stay in the fight purses go up. The Nevada Boxing Commission will have to disclose the purses of the final show. They will make tens of thousands of dollars. Ishe should have made it to the finals. Have you seen the score cards of the previous fights? They were not as close as they portray them in the show. At this rate I do not think there will be a second season.
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Master B 106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-24-05, 00:43 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Do u think they told the scorecarders, put just close but lose for Ishe? Serigo won.. since The Fans said boo???They want Ishe out of the completition!! and get more RATING!! for their show!
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finalround 58 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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04-24-05, 05:15 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
It will be interesting to hear what the fighters say after the show ends. Maybe then we will get the whole truth of the matter
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ChicagoTRS 39 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-24-05, 11:37 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Seems like the Ishe vs Garcia fight results turned out to be pretty fair. I understand they can edit the fight to make anyone seem like the winner but... Most at ringside had it 3-2 in favor of Garcia...I sensed no negative fan reaction to the results. The discussion during the fight pretty much had it first round Garcia...2-3 Ishe...4-5 Garcia.
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TroyGun25 27 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-25-05, 02:15 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
All of you Ishe whinners are really giving me a good laugh today, thank you. I mean come on, your only course of reaction is to say the judges and Burnett screwed him over? That's the oldest excuse in the book. Face it, Sergio beat him, it was obvious by the fight we all saw on Sunday. And VFW, if there was this big controversy with Ishe why not show it? Reality TV thrives on controversy. Come on now guys and gals, let's start the healing process now and say altogether...Ishe...lost...bye...bye.
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FFantasyFX 1011 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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04-25-05, 02:37 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Well, one of the judges didn't think that Sergio beat Ishe; unfortunately the other two did. Based on what I saw last night, I would have scored the fight 3 - 2 in Ishe's favor. I'll be very interested to see how the judges scored it - if one or both of the judges gave Sergio four or more rounds, they're nuts. I'll also be interested to see if The Contender puts up the full fight this week, or just clips. I don't think you can so readily dismiss claims that the judges miscored (since boxing judges are prone to do such things), although intervention on the part of Burnett is pretty farfetched.
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-25-05, 03:32 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
The scores, incidentally, were 49-46 Ishe, 49-46 Sergio, and 50-45 Sergio.
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-25-05, 04:39 PM (EST)
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20. "Wow!" |
Now THAT'S a split. Someone gave Sergio all five rounds? Was it Stallone impersonating a judge? 
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-25-05, 05:04 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Are you basing this on being there, or on what you saw on TV? Because of course it was edited to reflect a particular storyline. From what I have heard, from people who were there, Sergio's supporters did not feel after the fight that he had done enough. And look agan at the scores: with such a wide variance, then clearly there was, by definition, some controversy. I can't judge the validity of the scores, and neither can you, if you re scoring it off the TV. I have been ringside at many fights, and I know how different things look on TV from being there, even when you see the whole fight, let alone edited highlights. Just because the decision as controversial, doesn't mean it was wrong. It may have been, it may not have been. I don't know. I'm just surprised and disappointed that they made no effort to reflect the disparate nature of the scores.
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-25-05, 05:55 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Agree" |
My assumption was also that that was why he hid the scores and the controversy. People do not, as a rule, like split decisions, especially such widely varying ones. Their gut response (rarely justified) is to scream "fix" or inept judging. I figured Burnett does not want those kind of accusations to sully his show; unfortunately, by hiding behind the editing, he ends up doing exactly what he hoped to avoid: cause some people to question the show's integrity.
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ChicagoTRS 39 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-26-05, 09:21 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: Agree" |
I agree they could edit the fight to make anyone look like the winner but I based my decision very little on the actual fight footage. These are the facts that lead to me thinking Sergio was the legitimate winner...At the end of round one in Ishe's corner Alfonso told Ishe "IMO you lost that round" and in Sergios corner Sergio seemed unsure if he won the round or not but his corner told him he won. This seems to be the round in controversy but I trust Alfonso's comments more than anything. Round 2 and 3 everyone seemed to agree Ishe won those rounds at least from the ringside comments and corner comments. Alfonso specifically stated Ishe won the rounds. Seems Ishe won these rounds rather convincingly which may lead to some of the controversy as all of the other rounds were minimally very close. But still they were all 10-9 rounds so really no difference. Round 4 decisive for Sergio. Ringside comments score it 2 - 2 after this round. All of the spectators seem to have the fight as a draw after this round... Round 5 seemed like Sergio got the better again with Ishe swinging wildly and missing a lot of heavy punches. The after fight reaction of the corners and fighters lead me to believe Sergio definitely won. The decision being read...I sensed no negative reaction from the crowd, corners, or other fighters. In the online video of the fight they did announce split decision. Watching the post fight video commentary online all of the principles (Tommy, Sly, Sugar, Jackie, Prentiss) seemed to acknowledge Sergio as the legitimate winner. They also mentioned Ishe did something after the fight and they called him out as a sore loser and not very christian. Ishe made some sort of scene after the fight but none of it was broadcast. Had a few other very disparaging remarks about Ishe, that he was very full of himself, did not follow what he preached, took Sergio too lightly, really got sucked into Sergios game plan and had no answer. I am as cynical as any when it comes to MB and reality TV but I do not think there is much controversy here. VFW I think your closeness to Ishe and probably your first hand talking to Ishe probably gives you Ishe's point of view but in this case I think Sergio just beat Ishe and that is all there was to it. Ishe can cry and whine but that does not make him the winner. I do not see any benefit to the show that Sergio rather than Ishe move on...I think the show is better off that the best fighters win and set up a good final. It may have been better off with Ishe who provides some controversy and conflict.
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-26-05, 09:39 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Agree" |
I'm not trying to say that the result was a robbery or anything. It was evidently a close fight, and like you said, 3-2 in rounds for either guy seemed like a decent result (even though none of the judges scored it that way). But there was one fight earlier in the season, where they made a big point of it being the closest point yet. That was the only time that I recall in which they announced the scores, which were all 48-47 for the winner. Yet they made a conscious decision not to show that there were differences of opinion among the judges as to who won between Ishe and Sergio. They deliberately did not show Sergio out on his feet at the end (information furnished separately by my source and by Alfonso Gomez on his site, and reinforced by Tommy Gallagher's comment on the official site that Sergio would not have been able to last a sixth round because of the effects of that punch at the end of the fifth). In other words, they made a clear decision to portray the fight as an undisputed win for Sergio. Given that they were so manipulative in that regard, then clearly they are not going to show any negative crowd reaction. I mean, c'mon!!! I am NOT saying that Ishe was the legitimate winner of that fight. I AM saying that, from what I heard, the initial reaction of those in Sergio's corner was that Sergio had not done enough, I AM saying that someone I spoke to who was there said that there was booing in the crowd at the result, and I AM saying that the fight was deliberately edited so as to eliminate any hint of controversy or dispute over the scoring. And you're right; I probably wouldn't care as much--scratch that, I definitely wouldn't care as much--if the roles had been reversed, and my buddy had wound up a disputed points winner. And as for Ishe "crying and whining": where has he cried or whined about the result? On the show? On the site? I still haven't spoken to him about that episode; he's training for May 24 and we've been playing phone tag. All he has said publicly has been gracious; he has even said to me that he thinks Sergio would be a deserving winner because he is smart, he is decent, he is honest, he is a good boxer, and he comes from such poverty that he deserves it. I know Ishe's my friend, but jeez, it seems to me the man can't catch a break. If he's humble and accepting of the decision, it means he admits he lost; if he complains, it means he's a whiner, a bad sport, and a bad Christian.
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-25-05, 02:48 PM (EST)
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16. "Reply" |
>I mean come on, your only course of reaction is to
>say the judges and Burnett screwed him over?All we know -- and we don't know this from the show, but from the web site -- is that the result was a split decision, meaning that one judge scored the fight for Ishe while the two others scored it for Sergio. Fighters get screwed by judges' decisions all the time, of course -- I pointed out previously that in one of Jimmy Lange's fights, one judge awarded him nine of ten rounds, while another judge awarded his opponent nine of ten rounds -- but at least in those cases you get to see the whole fight and then judge for yourself. In this fight, even in the so-called "complete version" on the Web, we saw about 60 seconds of four of the rounds and about 30 seconds of round 4 -- even though each round is about 3 minutes long. >Face it, Sergio beat him, it was obvious by the
>fight we all saw on Sunday. It wasn't obvious to one of the judges scoring the fight. And you must be a supergenius if you can tell how the whole fight went from seeing less than five minutes out of the fifteen minutes of action. My hat is off to you. >And VFW, if there was this big controversy with Ishe why not show
>it? Reality TV thrives on controversy. Apparently, you also know more about reality TV than Mark Burnett. On the Web clip, the ring announcer says "the winner by split decision ... Sergio Mora." On episode 9, we hear the ring announcer say, "the winner ... Sergio Mora." On episode 10, we hear the ring announcer say, "the winner by decision ... Sergio Mora." Why deliberately edit out the words "by split decision" in episode 9 and the word "split" in episode 10 if, as you say, reality TV thrives on controversy? You should inform Burnett that he has a thing or two to learn about reality TV. As for me, I found Burnett's edit of the "Gutless Four" (Anthony, Jesse, Joey and Peter) to be problematic, but I'm not enough of an expert to second-guess the guy who has been the most successful producer of reality TV in the US. I'm glad to know that someone else is.  Soylent Green: recycling America, one person at a time.
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stirlo1984 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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04-25-05, 03:36 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
It's interesting that none of you chaps seem to know who's in the final. I'm from England, where I read Boxing Monthly, and they told us months ago who was in the final.
Just say whether you want to know, althouhg by this stage, ti's fairly easy to tell I think.
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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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04-25-05, 05:43 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
OK, if you know, TELL US!!! This is the "spoilers forumn" so anyone reading this WANTS to know what happens!! If they come in here to read, and DON'T want to know, it's their stupidity since there's a huge warning posted at the entrance to this particular thread.
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VegasFightWriter 218 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-25-05, 05:17 PM (EST)
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23. "Alfonso's take" |
Here's Alfonso's take on Smith-Mora. Confirms some of what I had heard and reported: the four vs the three, Ishe wobbling Sergio hard at the end. He saw it as a close fight; seems like from his take it could have been 3-2 in rounds in either direction.
http://www.alfonsosgomez.com/page4.htm
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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-25-05, 06:14 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
I'm confused, from watching Sunday's show, the crowd seemed more than happy that Sergio won, I heard no booing from them when they announced Sergio the winner, although I did notice they didn't say "by unanimous vote" as they have in much of the past fights. Wouldn't the crowd have been fairly vocal if they thought the judging unfair, or even fixed?? Granted, it's a reality tv show where anything can happen, and alleged underhanded goings on are always points of speculations in the spoiler forums (ie; what allegedly occured during the tribal council fire starting "immunity challenge" between Stephanie and Bobby Jon in Episode 8 of Survivor Palau) It just doesn't seem to pass the "smell test" that it was close enough that Ishe should have been the winner, because no matter how many of Sergio's family members/friends were at the fight, the rest of the crowd couldn't have been overshadowed in their disaproval had the decision really been fixed, or even a legitimate mistake.
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gwrbassin 25 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-26-05, 09:51 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
I do not think anyone is saying that the fight was fixed. What I think is being said is that one of the judges score it 50 45 in favor of Sergio. Even with the edited version of the fight I do not think anyone can say he won all 5 rounds. And to add to that have another judge setting right next to him score it 49 46 Ishe, Ishe 4 rounds Sergio 1. With the edited version we all pretty much agree that it is 3 rounds to 2 but could go either way for which fighter. I have no problem with Sergio win it was a close fight and either fighter could have won. But I wish we could see the whole fight.
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jenniferlyn 147 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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05-02-05, 09:40 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: WARNING!!! MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SUNDAY" |
Agreed, the more footage we can see, (whether it tells us more about who won/should have won) the better!!
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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