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"Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After""
zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-10, 10:07 PM (EST)
 
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1. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
Loved this episode. I feel like this is the direction we should have been going in. Finally no Smokey or Jacob. Back to basics. I loved the themes in this one. You always have a choice. Loved the connections. Even loved the island scenes. Was that the outside of the room that Juliet and Ben kept Walt in where all the birds died outside?(in the webisode). We still are guessing about who is working for the greater good, Widemore, Sayid, Desmond? I just really loved this episode and I will be back tomorrow to discuss!
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blacknwhitedog 6528 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-10, 10:50 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
did you notice there were no "plane" sounds as Desmond "flashed" except when he came back to Penny in the stadium after he passed out
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-10, 11:13 PM (EST)
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4. "Total Crap" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-10 AT 11:19 PM (EST)I guess I don't see it like others but this was a totally crappy episode. An hour long flash-sideways for Charlie to tell us that "none of it matters" and for Daniel to say that "It wasn't supposed to be our lives." Well Duh! I've been saying that ever since the first flash-sideways. That EM machine looked very cheap, almost as bad as 1960's TV sci-fi. For scientists, Widmore's team looked like complete morons even worse than when they were playing gunfighters which is saying something! "Hum, I guess I'll turn on that switch..." The brief connection between Desmond and his "constant" was nice but mostly for the romantics. Desmond was introduced as a tool in season 2, he's back being a tool and will probably do it happily ever after. At least, I figured out why Zoe took Jin to Hydra: If she hadn't, we wouldn't have seen a Lostie on the island until Sayid suddenly appeared to turn Desmond into his tool. What a waste.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 08:17 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Total Crap" |
OFG, It's nice to be on the same side!  I think somehow the EM treatment was to prove that the island wouldn't let Desmond die but it was done in such laughable manner that I'm with you and doubt these writers are worth the attention we've been giving them. Spending time to reflect on it and it's even worse than I first realized: Charlie said he didn't know what Desmond was supposed to see so how the hell did he know he had to show it to him while nearly drowning? And how does Charlie expect to find his "love" if he dies? That scene would have only made sense if the car had accidentally wound up in the ocean. The job Desmond did in Australia wasn't revealed but it seems that "Flash-sideways-Hume" is to Widmore what original-Jin is to Mr. Paik. I believe Widmore sent Hume down-under to kill someone and who died in Australia? Christian Shepard. The result of his death was to get Jack on Oceanic 815 so, seeing the plane land safely should have been bad news for Widmore. However, Charles and Eloise both seemed very happy which has to mean that their plans concerning the island were still on track somehow. But then, they don't want Desmond to make waves which again doesn't make sense. Charles' plans in the Losties time-line are working out because he's on the island and about to take over. In Flash-sideways, with Oceanic 815 not crashing, he would still have no clue where the island even is.
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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 07:55 AM (EST)
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6. "Loved it!" |
I agree with Zombs. This is what Lost is supposed to be like.Just like before Desmond remembers his flashes back on the island. He is special. I too loved all the connections and how they still loved that one special person to them; and it made them be the real them. So when Desmond disappeared on the plane, did he flash back to the island? Maybe that's when Widmore kidnapped him from the hospital.
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blacknwhitedog 6528 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 08:50 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I think the thing about Desmond- he is not "flashing-sideways" the same as the others (the lack of plane sounds) he is mind time-traveling like he was in previous season. Something triggers this for him like a bump on the head- or an electromagnetic field.
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frodis 4442 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 10:59 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I thought this episode was great. Storylines come together around Desmond, as they always have. He's the audience's Constant, too.I loved how we started to see everything cross over in this episode. Desmond and Charlie's connection is still present. The stadium where Desmond and Jack met is now the stadium where Desmond and Penny meet. Desmond pushing the button in the MRI machine. So much more. . . I don't think it's that Charlie wants to die, he wants to see his Constant again and feel the feeling again, and he was compelled to have Desmond see it, too. Maybe he thinks he's glimpsing some sort of Afterlife but all he knows is that he needs to be in an altered state of mind to get there. We got to see that even in the Flash-Sideways, Eloise still know's what's up, which to me, make the Flash-Sideways even more interesting. She even gave us the all-important, "what happened, happened" line. I've always believed that the Flash-Sideways would show our Losties converging in different, but similar ways that they did on the island. You can cause a little ripple with time travel and changing things, but you can't change everything. Loved that Daniel was a musician. I thought the 1970's EM machine was totally appropriate and consistent with the fact that they were using Dharma's barracks on Hydra Island and therefore using old Dharma equipment. It looked appropriately old and dusty and goofy and 1970s because it WAS 1970s stuff. I do not consider the Desmond/Penny storyline a soap opera and I do not think that it's only important to the "romantics."
We have to go back . . .
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blacknwhitedog 6528 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 01:49 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I was also wondering if the EMF machine was the "magic box" Ben talked about
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 06:25 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
>I thought this episode was great.
> Storylines come together around
>Desmond, as they always have.
> He's the audience's Constant,
>too. Then it's bad writing because he wasn't part of Oceanic 815, not a Lostie. I rarely ever felt a connection to Desmond, the island's tool.
>I loved how we started to
>see everything cross over in
>this episode. Desmond and
>Charlie's connection is still present.
> The stadium where Desmond
>and Jack met is now
>the stadium where Desmond and
>Penny meet. Desmond pushing
>the button in the MRI
>machine. So much more.
With fiction anything can come together. It was cute at best, hardly meaningfull and running the risk of losing credibility. Speaking of which: >I thought the 1970's EM machine
>was totally appropriate and consistent
>with the fact that they
>were using Dharma's barracks on
>Hydra Island and therefore using
>old Dharma equipment. It
>looked appropriately old and dusty
>and goofy and 1970s because
>it WAS 1970s stuff. The Time traveling plotline was a cop out from the start. When a sci-fi writer is out of inspiration, he writes a time-traveling story where anything goes. Although I had a lot of difficulty swallowing the idea of time travel, I accepted it as part of the mysteries of the island. Somehow the EM forces of the island made it possible. I could buy the kool-aid. BUT, the EM machine we saw didn't depend on island forces. We saw the counter at 0 and it went all the way to max on its own. That means the island didn't contribute. That means the 1970 box made of bells and whistles was supposed to be able to do that. I don't buy that kool-aid at all. Why? The 1970s had 8-track players, no time machines. Worse: With all the power his corporation has given him and 30 years to improve the machinery, Widmore completely relied on that piece of junk. He didn't even bring some outside computer to monitor it. What a joke. Well, the guy did rely on a geologist to play the role of anesthesiologist so maybe credibility shouldn't be a consideration. I didn't know Lost was a comedy.
>I do not consider the Desmond/Penny
>storyline a soap opera and
>I do not think that
>it's only important to the
>"romantics."
Good for you.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 08:04 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
>>> That means the 1970 box made of bells and whistles was supposed to be able to do that. I don't buy that kool-aid at all. Why? The 1970s had 8-track players, no time machines.LOL, and I had an 8 track, and it was a piece of crap. But michel, you miss the point. They plugged the 1970 box into the island power source. Yep, right into the island, and the circuit breaker from 1970 is so good that it can disconnect the island power surge just like that.  >>> Worse: With all the power his corporation has given him and 30 years to improve the machinery, Widmore completely relied on that piece of junk. He didn't even bring some outside computer to monitor it. What a joke. I know, see my post 24. They locked themselves into the old equipment under the premise the island was isolated. But Widmore is a multi-billionaire coming on his own sub. He had the power to stage the crash of a major aircraft in a deep ocean trench. I THINK he could at least bring along a laptop. One could argue that new technology somehow won't function on the island, except what about all the brand new guns? They work fine. >>> Well, the guy did rely on a geologist to play the role of anesthesiologist so maybe credibility shouldn't be a consideration. I didn't know Lost was a comedy. I know, Widmore should have brought a physician and nurse. It's just not credible that he'd mount that type of expedition without them. Star Trek always sent Bones along ... It would be different if Widmore & Co had crashed. They didn't. They planned this. They brought Desmond. And a geophysicist is putting an IV in him. They've thrown all pretense of writing about realistic behavior under the sea. This is why I got annoyed with them back in Seasons 2 and 3. On the Fuselage, I scanned the new topics and people are asking stuff like what is Penny training for. That ascribes way too much coherence to this plot. The writers are able to get a good response from these FS simply by paying homage to earlier episodes. This makes people feel like things are connecting. I know, I feel it sort of working on me, but by now I'm just not impressed. They need to do more than just shuffle the cast and throw them into episodes together. Look how the whole Charlie plot regarding Driveshaft turned into nothing. Once Desmond and Charlie had their talk, Charlie the musician didn't matter any more. They turned it into a comedic moment when Ms. Widmore said she didn't care, after all that build-up, but the fact remains that they created a whole sub-plot that had zero purpose other than as a device to bring certain characters together. During Recon, Sawyer interacted with Charlie's brother, but where were Sawyer and Miles when Charlie got released? Their connection had no purpose. Two more actors would have had to be paid for the episode who weren't otherwise in it. They went cheap and settled for Jack, Hurley, Claire as the cameos. They had to pay Claire anyway as she was in Charlie's vision, so let's use her in the airport. How long did they spend on the exposition of "very pregnant lady has trouble getting her luggage" -- and to what purpose? Why was the driver worth all that time? Why chase Charlie around the hospital? Think of the useful island time that all could have translated into. But no, because whatever Desmond is there to do, they're going to drag it out.
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blacknwhitedog 6528 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 01:51 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
side note- love Desmond, love Penny, even love Charlie- but now Flash Forward is messing me up LOL!
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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 03:18 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Soooooo. . . did anybody else see" |
I noticed the sailboat, Desmond seemed entranced by it.
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 02:34 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-10 AT 02:51 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 04-07-10 AT 02:38 PM (EST) Happily Ever After The show begins with Desmond...YEAH! He is awakened with Zoe in the room, and soon thereafter Widmore arrives. He asks if he remembers being shot by Ben Linus? He says yes, but wants to speak with Penny, and he calls out for her. Penny is not there, but that she and his son are safe. He says that he is sorry he had to take them away from him, but he didn’t have a chance to explain, if He had, he wouldn’t have come with him. Desmond inquires as to where he is....and Widmore tells him he brought him back to the Island. Upon hearing this, Desmond reacts as we knew he would, he attacks Charles with the IV pole! Go Des! They subdue Desmond, and he demands that they take him back....Charles says, that he can’t, the Island isn’t done with him yet. Desmond is always traveling in time somewhere whether he wants to go or not, and we’ve heard this statement before from Eloise when she told Desmond in the Lamp Post that the “Island wasn’t done with him yet!” As Widmore leaves, Jin asks what is Desmond doing here? Charles says that it will be easier to show him than to tell him. He tells Zoe to take Jin to the generator room and he’ll bring Mr. Hume so they can start the test. Zoe reminds him that the test isn’t scheduled till tomorrow. He says get it ready now. Zoe walks with Jin past the cubic structure that has some LARGE voltage set up to it, and Zoe tells Jin, “No time for sight seeing”. Zoe tells the workers in the generator room that they are going to do the test now, and is told that it’s not close to being ready. Jin wants to know what they are going to do, and Zoe tells him that they are going to run a test. They fire up the juice and it fails, so they send someone down to the room to test the contacts. Someone in the generator room finds the problem, fixes it, and flips the switch which proceeds to fire up the magnetic room and it fries the guy down there to the point of smoking! They all run down to see him, and Widmore arrives with Desmond who is being taken against his will. As they proceed to take out the dead guy, Charles examines his face which is charred and smoking, and Desmond witnesses this. They then beat up Desmond and strap him to a chair and leave the room. Charles tells him that “he knows how this looks, but if everything I’ve been told about you is true, then you’ll be perfectly fine.” Then someone asks Des, “do you have any metal on you, keys? Chains?...and Widmore says of course he doesn’t, you idiot! He tells Desmond, “I hate to resort to forcing this on you, Desmond, but once it’s over, I’m going to ask you to make a sacrifice and I hope for all our sakes you’ll help me.” Desmond replies, “a sacrifice, what the bloody hell do you know about sacrifice?” Charles says, “my son died here for the sake of this Island. Your wife, my own daughter, hates me, and I’ve never even met my grandson. But, if you won’t help me Desmond, all of it will be for nothing. Penny, your son, and everyone else will be gone forever.” He turns and leaves, leaving Desmond screaming and breaking out of the chair.... Jin says not to turn on the machine, not if you want me to help you in anyway. YOu need to explain to me...Charles says, “that man is the only person I’m aware of in the world that has survived a catastrophic electromagnetic event and I need to know that he can do it again or we all die.....Turn it on.” They fire up the magnetic machine and Desmond is zapped to the point of passing out, and we see him FLASH.....to SIDEWAYS world!!! He comes off of flight 815, runs into Hurley, who refers him to the right carousel, then he meets Claire. He offers her a ride, and predicts that she will have a boy....he notes that she’s brave as he not a big fan of surprises. And, with the ability to time travel back and forth from the past, present, future, he doesn’t need to deal with surprises. Then he meets Minkowski, who is his talkative driver, who will take him to where he wants to go, the office. George notes that there is no wedding band and offers female entertainment, which Desmond refuses. Just as Jin and Sun were not married in sideways world, neither is Desmond and Penny. Cut to Desmond going into Widmore’s office where they greet each other warmly with a hug! Then Widmore is on the phone telling someone that, “I want him arraigned and out of there!” Tells Desmond that their celebration of the Australian deal will be cut short as his wife is having a charity event and his son, the talented musician had an idea to blend classical music with modern rock. Has he heard of the band Drive Shaft? The base guitarist overdosed and got himself arrested. If I don’t get this junkie to my wife’s event, she will “destroy me”. Desmond agrees to “babysit” him..... Charles needs him to do it as he’s someone that he can trust. Then Charles says, “you really do have the life, no family, no commitments, ah...to be free of attachments!”
Desmond agrees, that he’s a blessed man. Charles says, no, he’s “the blessed one to have you in my employ, let’s drink a toast” to Desmond’s indispensibility....as he pulls out the McKetcheon Scotch...Desmond remarks that this is the 60 year old scotch, and Widmore says that, “nothing is too good for you”. I think, It’s true, Desmond is indispensible whatever time he is in...we note that sideways world is the polar opposite to the real world for Desmond....where he wasn’t good enough to drink the scotch, and he was nothing but dispensible to Charles Widmore. Cut to Desmond arriving at the Superior Court house to retrieve Charlie. He approaches the entrance and we see his REFLECTION in full view in the glass Courthouse doors. They open and the lawyer(Sundra from Survivor) brings him out, “he’s all yours”...Charlie proceeds to immediately bolt to the bar across the street, as though he’s on a suicide mission...Desmond follows and joins him for one drink.
Charlie: “So, what is your job, to babysit me, Mr. Widmore’s chief lackey, a henchman?
Desmond: “Plenty of perks, I get to meet charming people...”
Charlie: “Well, cheers then! Tell me, Perky, are you happy? No you are not...
Des: “Well, I have a great job, lots of money, travel all over the world, why wouldn’t I be happy?”
Charlie: “Have you ever been in love?”
Des: “Thousands of times!”
Charlie: “That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about spectactular consciousnes-altering love. Do you know what that looks like?
Des: “I wasn’t aware that love looked like anything.
Charlie: “I’ve seen it, mate. On the plane back from Sydney.
Des: “is that so? We were on the same flight, so maybe I saw it too.”
Charlie: Trust me, you didn’t
Des: “No? Enlighten me.”
Charlie: “There was this woman two rows in front of me in handcuffs sitting with a cop. He looked at me, knew I was holding. If I didn’t take action, I’d be caught. So, got up, went to the lav, proceeded to eliminate the evidence by swallowing my stash. At that exact moment we hit turbulence. I choked. The entire bag of heroin was stuck in my throat. It’s over. Everything starts to go dark. I went into the abbys and then I see the girl. A woman. Blonde, raptuously beautiful, and I know her. We’re together. It’s like we’ve always been, and we always will be. This feeling, this love, and just as I’m about to be engulfed by it, SNAP, I open my eyes and this sodding idiot is standing there asking me if I’m ok. But, I saw it, just for a moment, I saw what it looked like. Desmond: “Well, that’s just poetry, brother. You should write a song about that.
Charlie: “I know what your are saying....poor suicidal rock star. But, I’ve seen something real, I’ve seen the truth.”
Desmond: “no, that’s not truth. lYOu want to know the real truth, Pace? Right now you have a choice. You can keep on drinking or you can come with me. Now, before you make your choice, realize that if you stay here, it will very likely result in extermination of your musical career....”
Charlie: “and, if I go with you?”
Desmond: “In twenty minutes you’ll be staying in a five star luxury hotel, right on the harbor-front. And, Charles Widmore, one of the most powerful men in this town, will owe you a favor.”
Charlie: “Doesn’t really seem like a choice.”
Desmond: “It’s always a choice, brother.”
Cut to them driving away and Charlie’s song is playing on the radio. He says that it was their first single, the beginning of everything great. They continue driving right by a guy walking along the water with palm trees in the background, who is wearing a backpack on his back. A quick reminder of their life as it was on the island.
He then asks Desmond if he likes the song. Charlie: “I fell sorry for you, mate. You think you are happy. But, then you get old of his, your life, freedom....
Desmond: “Why? Because none of it is real?”
Charlie: “Ahhhh, Mr. Hume. How about I offer you a choice? Ican either show you waht I’m talking about or you can get out of the car.”
Des: Laughs, and says why in God’s name would I want to get out of the car....as Charlie yanks the wheel and they go and crash into the water, submerging quickly.... Desmond struggles to get out of his seatbelt and out the window, unable to release Charlie’s belt. He gasps for more air and dives to go and get him. Charlie wakes up and puts his palm on the window, and Desmond sees the old Charlie as he drowns, with his palm against the window, and “not Penny’s boat” scribbled on it. Desmond is finally able to get Charlie out and the next scene is in the hospital. I can not help but to note that Desmond has to save Charlie’s life multiple times in sideways world as in the real timeline. This time in the water, he saved his life. Cut to the examining room where the doctor is assessing Desmond’s head trauma...asks him about any hallucinations, and Desmond recalls the palm message and replies, “not sure”. She tells him that the CAT scan was inconclusive and she wants to send him for an MRI. For all of you that may not know, an MRI stands for Magnetic Resonance Imaging. It involves a high amount of magnetic energy shot at the body which presents images of the structures within....a large dose of electromagnetic energy to the body! Can’t wait to see what happens to Des now, and I would expect him to flash somewhere else! All Desmond wants to do is to find the guy that he came in there with....Charlie. The Dr. Tells him that she’s afraid that he’s not going anywhere until she finds out what’s going on inside his brain. Cut to the MRI room and we hear the technician saying, “are you wearing any metal, carrying any keys or change? Just as we heard the guy say to Desmond as he was strapping him to the chair prior to the electromagnetic machine test.... He continues to ask, Any metal inside your body, pacemakers, pins, bullets, steel plates, etc. He tells him about the panic button, says it will take 30 minutes, and says that it’s loud.....It starts....first with a loud noise, and then Des flashes the scene with Charlie as he dies holding his palm to the glass, ‘Not Penny’s boat”, then Desmond’s life with Penny flashes before his eyes....when he meets her, their courtship, reuniting, the birth of their child, a toddler Charlie Hume, and him kissing her, and it ends with her voice saying, “Desmond”....Desmond now FREAKS, hits the panic button and demands to find the guy he came in there with. Cut to Desmond at the nurses station inquiring about Charlie, he sees and talks to Jack, as Charlie breaks out running. Desmond chases and corners him, they talk...”Why are you running?”
Charlie: “Cause no one here can help me.”
Desmond: “why’d you try to kill me?”
Charlie: “I didn’t try and kill you, I was trying to show you something.” Desmond asks to see his hands and Charlie knows that he’s seen something too...in the water? Desmond says, “Who is Penny?” Charlie responds that he does not know....ahhh....”you felt it, didn’t you?” Charlie says that he’s not going to play a rock concert after this...”this” doesn’t matter, none of “this” matters. All that matters is that we felt it. He turns and leaves and tells him to start looking for Penny. Cut to the charity event tent and Eloise is chastizing all of the staff regarding the tables. Desmond interrupts and tells her about Charlie taking off. She’s delighted to meet him, tells him, “it’s about time”. I think yes, it is....it’s ALL about time. She tells him to call her Eloise, and wants to know what crisis Charles had to send his best “fix-it” man in to the bowels of charity balls?” I think to myself....I thought Jack was the one obsessed with ‘fixing’ things. He tells her about Drive Shaft won’t be able to appear along side of her son...she responds graciously saying that her son will understand and every time one employs rock stars that a certain unpredictability comes with the territory. He then turns to leave and on the way out, he hears, “Milton, Penny - solo”. He turns and asks to see the list. AT this point he is quickly interrupted by Eloise who says that, “No, you absolutely may not, it’s confidential”...and asks if he is questioning her. She directs him to come with her.... After ordering the servants to leave, she turns to him and says she has listened to him, now he must listen to her...”I want you to stop.”, He says, “stop what?” and she says, “Someone has affected the way you see things. This is a serious problem. It is in fact a violation, so whatever you are doing, whatever you think you are looking for, you need to stop looking for it.”
Desmond: “Do you know what I’m looking for?”
Eloise: “I don’t know why you are looking for anything. You have the perfect life, you’ve managed to attain what you wanted more than anything, my husband’s approval.”
Desmond: “How do you know what I want?”
Eloise: “Because I bloody do!”
Desmond: “I need to see that list or you need to tell me why I can’t!”
Eloise: “You can’t because you are not ready yet, Desmond.” And she turns to leave....
Desmond: “Ready for what???” Cut to Desmond returning to the limo and asking George if he has alcohol....he pours himself a drink when there is knocking at the window...it’s Daniel Widmore, and he tells Desmond that they need to talk. Just like when Daniel went back in time with the island flashes and went to the back door of the hatch and knocked on it to speak to Desmond! Daniel: “Do you believe in love at first sight, Mr. Hume?
Desmond: “Excuse me?”
Daniel: “The first time I saw her I was walking through this museum a few weeks ago. She works here, she was on her lunch break....she had incredible blue eyes, red hair, we know he’s talking about his love, Charlotte, And, as soon as I saw her, right in that moment, it’s like, it was like I already loved her. And, that’s when things got weird. That same night after I saw that woman, I woke up and I wrote this....shows him the journal entry with the physics equation... Desmond: “So, what is it?”
Daniel: “I’m a musician, I have no idea.” I took it to a friend, a math whiz, who said this is quantum mechanics. These equations are so advanced that only someone that had been studying physics their entire life could have come up with them.
Desmond: “So, what do they mean?”
Daniel: “So, imagine something terrible is about to happen. Something catastrophic and the only way to stop it from happening is by releasing a huge amount of energy. Like setting off a nuclear bomb.”
Desmond: “You want to set off a nuclear bomb?”
Daniel: “Just listen. What if all of this, what if this wasn’t supposed to be our life? We had some other life, for some reason we changed things. I don’t want to set off a nuclear bomb, Mr. Hume, I think I already did.”
Desmond: “Listen, mate, I don’t know what any of this has to do with me?”
Daniel: “Why did you ask my mother about a woman named Penny? It happened to you too, didn’t it? You felt it....”
Desmond: “I don’t know what I felt.”
Daniel: “Yes, you do. You felt love....”
Desmond: “That’s impossible. Because I don’t know anything about this woman. I don’t know where, I don’t even know if she exists, she’s an idea...”
Daniel: “No, Mr. Hume. She’s my half sister. I can tell you exactly where and when you can find her.”
Cut to the stadium, where instead of Desmond running the stairs, Penny is now running them. He sees her running, she ends her work out, and then he approaches her, asking if she is Penny. She’s says yes, hello. He says he’s Desmond and goes to shake her hand...just as they shake, FLASH, and he is now lying on the Test floor looking at the hand that just shook Penny’s in sideways world! Wow, it’s clear. Desmond has time traveled to the sideways world and it’s a world where he doesn’t know Penny, nor does he have the love with her, nor does he have the birth of his son, Charlie. It’s a world he wants no part of, and even though he seems to be trying to reconnect with his constant in this world, he wants the life he had with his one true love. Note how he flashed back to the real world when he touched her....his constant....when he made contact with his constant, he was saved, once again! I loved the fact that however this show ends, it will be "happily ever after" for Desmond! He wins in the real world with Penny and their son, Charlie, and he'll win in the sideways world, as he's on his way to his true love there as well! YEAH! Very interesting that the people that touch upon the real island world within the sideways world were the people who were deeply in love....Charlie with Claire, he saw their Island life and love. Daniel, who was in love with Charlotte, also saw their life circa the Island, as he knew he had loved this woman. The ones that connect to the island time are the ones that truly loved. But very ominous that the one's that want to go back to the original time, Charlie and Daniel will both have to die to do it! l don’t know what this has to say about Sun then....she didn’t remember her life in the real timeline....hmmmm? I also wanted to comment on the revelation that Daniel told Desmond. That he thought he’d already set off a nuclear bomb....if the detonation of Jughead is indeed what sent them to the sideways life, then even though they are back to the Island time altogether, it is still beyond the point where the bomb exploded. So, unless they plan on sending Desmond back in time to prevent the detonation of the bomb, I don’t see how they can prevent that. And, we all know, what happens, happens. So, I’m confused. Could it be Smokey that could cause them all to go into sideways world IF he is somehow released, or allowed to flee the Island? If he gets out, will that be how all of their relationships cease to exist? Regardless, clearly, Widmore needs Desmond to help prevent that. He needs him as his talent is vital to the mission, and that is why Desmond suddenly, after time traveling to sideways world, understands and is ready to start. So, is the problem to go back in time and prevent the detonation, OR, is the problem to contain XLocke from leaving the Island? When Desmond wakes up, he’s ready to get started. He goes with Zoe, and they are attacked by Sayid. He doesn’t have time to explain, but the people he’s with are extremely dangerous...Desmond replies, lead the way... So, now the object is to get their original lives back, and also to contain Locke....It just keeps getting better and better!!! I had originally theorized that the way they came to sideways world was a direct result of the detonation of the bomb...remember Juliet told Miles that “it worked”. In other words the detonation of the bomb made it so the flight 815 never crashed. They most likely were sent to a time 20 years or so before the flight...their lives evolved in different ways...Sawyer didn’t become a con man, Locke ended up with Helen but still paralyzed, Sayid was reunited with Nadia, but not in the way that he longed to be, Jack had a marriage and his own son, Jin and Sun were lovers but not married, still at odds with her father. Most likely the Island sank at that time as well. So, it will either end successfully with them winning the war, containing XLocke, leaving one to remain as protector, while the others get their original lives back, and continue on their original timelines...most likely get off of the Island on the plane....just as the story starts with them on a plane, we will most likely see the end with them as passengers on the plane going home. Frank will be flying them. Or, if it doesn’t end successfully, they will live on in the sideways world. If they live on in sideways world though, I hope and pray they get their memory of life on the island back...which I believe they would....we've already seen so much deja-vu over it. What I don’t quite get are Charles and Eloise. Eloise is playing them all. She is aware of the old life, and aware of the sideways life....she knows what Desmond is looking for and she says that “he’s not ready”. She is definitely one creepy lady. How does she know about the congruent worlds. Why would Charles Widmore want sideways world to go, in lieu of the real time world. He’s got both his kids and the love of his life, Eloise, and he’s still rich and powerful in sideways world. In the real world, as he said, his son died for the sake of the island, his own daughter hates him, and he’s never even met his own grandson. Why would he opt for the real time world for the sideways world, where he has it all? Why is he sacrificing so much now to contain XLocke. Is it because he can’t see what’s in the sideways world, he just knows that it would be so different. Regardless, Widmore has indeed recruited Jin and now Desmond! Regarding Eloise, certainly she would opt for sideways world and indeed has. She has her son with her, who stayed with the piano, and didn't get into the physics. The son that she doesn't have to kill again, in sideways world. She also has the husband, and what a prize he is.... What will happen when Desmond gets to the XLocke camp? How will he recruit the other losties to come to Widmore’s aid? Looks like next week will be all about Hurley. Looks like we’ll get some Libby as well....he was kneeling at her grave in the preview. Will dead Libby come and visit Hurley? Will the beach Losties make their way to Hydra Island? It seems like it’s time to move them along! It really is building to the conflict, the war! How will it end and which of our Losties will be sacrificed? Nice analogy with the Widmore-Desmond vs. Paik-Kwon relationships. I must say you have a point. Desmond touched on alot of free will/choice options tonight as well. I did think the EM machine was a bit underdeveloped...
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CTgirl 7073 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 08:09 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
Thanks for your detailed post FloPo. I always enjoy reading them and I like some of the points you raised. I fall in the middle on how I feel about this episode. Desmond is one of my favorite characters but I didn’t love this episode. I thought the first 45 minutes were really slow and rather disappointing. The scene with Claire was unnecessary and a lot of the stuff with Charlie was boring. While I loved seeing Charlie again, I didn’t quite get the point Charlie was trying to make with Desmond. But then badass Eloise shows up and the episode improved markedly! But good or bad, I am along for the ride! I loved the way all the characters and events from the past are woven together – George aka Minkowski, the scientist’s aside to the rabbit, “you’re next.” Charlie being saved from death several times with Charlie and Desmond recreating the scene from Hydra station, Daniel saying “we have to talk” once again with Desmond, Widmore sharing the scotch with Desmond that he wouldn’t let him drink back when he was Penny’s suitor. Eloise saying, what happened, happened in reference to Drive Shaft (and we know that it meant much much more!) and Penny running the stairs in the stadium like Jack did when he first met Desmond. Enter badass Eloise and the episode started to pick up for me. She is creepy! She reminds of an all-knowing witch. “I want you to stop. It is a violation. Stop looking for it. You’re not ready.” She clearly knows a lot of what is going on in the flash sideways where I got the impression that Charles wasn't in the loop as much. (Maybe that's why they're still married! ) I am trusting C&L to bring all the strands together from the Losties to Dharma and Widmore to Jacob and MIB to create a Lost mythology we’ll be happy with when the show is over but I do understand the frustration some people are feeling. I agree that “Happily Ever After” will end well for Desmond but I am not so sure about Sun and Jin. The title pertained to 3 people – Charlie, Daniel and Desmond and the loves of their lives Sun and Jin’s story wasn’t mentioned. Daniel give us a clue to the ending when he said “what if this isn’t supposed to be our life?” I still believe that the flash sideways stories are not our ending but I don't think of them as a waste. The characters are on a journey and these stories are part of their journey. Things will change again depending on what happens with the war among Jacob, Widmore, the Losties and MIB. You wrote, " So, is the problem to go back in time and prevent the detonation, OR, is the problem to contain XLocke from leaving the Island?" Definitely food for thought! I think that is a big question for the remainder of the season. Although at times I hated Widmore this episode, he is becoming ambiguous, much like Ben. Is he good or is he bad? I am beginning to think that he is not as evil as he has been portrayed. I think that he will join with Jacob’s crew to contain the smoke monster. One last thought: Desmond and the flight manifest, "I need to show them something." Who is he showing the flight manifest to? The candidates?
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warp_core breach 469 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-10, 07:58 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
>One last thought: Desmond and
>the flight manifest, "I need
>to show them something."
>Who is he showing the
>flight manifest to? The
>candidates?I took it to mean that he wanted to see the manifest in order to find the passengers and show them what Charlie showed him. The preview had mentioned "a new path"... perhaps this was about new paths for the LAX Losties or Desmond having a new purpose. 
A Gift from Agman
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 08:43 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-10 AT 09:06 PM (EST)
Great Job as usual, FP.
My reactions while watching weren't as positive: -"Desmond reacts as we knew he would, he attacks Charles with the IV pole!" Apparently Widmore didn't expect that reaction. Why not wake up Desmond once he's strapped in the EM room? -"the Island isn’t done with him yet." The island always needs a tool. - "Jin asks what is Desmond doing here?" I'm asking what is Jin doing there besides representing the Losties who, we may have otherwise forgotten, are the stars of the show. -"Someone in the generator room finds the problem, fixes it, and flips the switch which proceeds to fire up the magnetic room and it fries the guy down there to the point of smoking" Widmore really knows to hire 'em, doesn't he? To think this is the mission of a lifetime and he got these bozos to work for him!! - “that man is the only person I’m aware of in the world that has survived a catastrophic electromagnetic event" Didn't Sawyer, Jack, Kate and everyone at the bomb site also survive a catastrophic event? - "his wife is having a charity event and his son, the talented musician had an idea to blend classical music with modern rock. Has he heard of the band Drive Shaft?" This doesn't fit with Eloise and Charles knowing everything. They know to isolate Desmond and Penny but not from the people on Oceanic 815? -"It’s over. Everything starts to go dark. I went into the abbys and then I see the girl. A woman. Blonde, raptuously beautiful, and I know her. We’re together. It’s like we’ve always been, and we always will be. This feeling, this love, and just as I’m about to be engulfed by it, SNAP, I open my eyes and this sodding idiot is standing there asking me if I’m ok. But, I saw it, just for a moment, I saw what it looked like.
Desmond: “Well, that’s just poetry" I thought it was pooahtry, myself: After realizing there's a woman out there that will make him feel that kind of love, all Charlie wants to do his risk killing himself again. That makes 0 sense. I know there's a parallel with Sayid's search for Nadia and Sayid risked being killed many times but that was AFTER he saw Nadia die, not before knowing her name. -"Desmond sees the old Charlie as he drowns, with his palm against the window, and “not Penny’s boat” scribbled on it." The lack of credibility here is astonishing. There wasn't even a hint that Charlie remembered Desmond so how did he know about his vision?
-"none of “this” matters."
Finally, someone tells us that the Flash-sideways are meaningless. One of the few good moments of the episode. -"What if all of this, what if this wasn’t supposed to be our life?" At least Daniel agrees with me. -"just as they shake, FLASH, and he is now lying on the Test floor" The only original thought the writers had this whole episode. -"When Desmond wakes up, he’s ready to get started. He goes with Zoe, and they are attacked by Sayid" Wasn't Sayid supposed to be there to get Jin back? Why risk that by revealing himself right away? FP, you didn't mention an important moment at the very end:
Desmond asked for the flight manifest which is exactly what the Others used to do: Make lists.
Two possibilities: Desmond will be acting on his own and assembling all the Losties to solve this mystery or Desmond was already acting under the orders of MIB. Knowing how much of a tool Desmond has always been, guess which one I think will happen.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 06:24 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I love Henry Ian Cusick's acting, and I was more than happy to watch him, and to see Daniel, and Charlie, and Penny, and Eloise. But I did not feel the writing for this episode was comparable to Flashes or Constant.This near the end of the show, they shouldn't be adding unnecessary filler, and the story should have had a resolution. It didn't. Running into Penny wasn't a resolution. Getting corralled by Sayid was not a resolution. It infuriates me when a character offers information and another character says they don't need it. They did it with Richard; they did it with Sun last episode; they did it this time when Widmore offered Desmond an explanation of what he was to do. I saw the balance scale painting; they showed it at least three times, but at this point I have a "so what" attitude towards that stuff. We have seen the balance scale on island; we know that Widmore is Mr. Island; we already get the symbolism, so there is nothing explanatory about just plunking it in. He could also have had a painting of the Black Rock. Whatever. Tell us something we don't know. As for the DHARMA equipment, I've always found it to be laughable. Desmond saving the world with an ancient Mac. I mean, it makes sense as long as you think they are shut off from the outside world, but they aren't! I don't feel like I learned anything about the Flash Sideways really. I thought that the Daniel reveal was very forced. From that drawing his whiz friend surmised that a hydrogen bomb was involved in ... I don't think so. I'm not a scientist, but I just don't care for this fuzzy science. Magic, demi-gods, the power of love, electro-magnetic energy, time-travel, alt universes -- I feel like they just said screw it and threw everything into the pot. 
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 09:59 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
Yes, I definitely see what those that are disappointed see. I, too, would love to see far more drama with our Losties, and less so with the supporting cast. And, for gosh sakes, I hope they don't inject anymore characters into the mix. I want to see dire circumstances and chase scenes, and really scary stuff, I want to see Sawyer and Kate together again, in or out of the cages. I love Desmond, too, and I want to see him get back to Penny and do whatever it is that needs doing. Lastly, I want to see Locke rise up from the dead. I want to see them back on the same team, in the same camp, doing what they have to do to get the heck off of that Island. Let's face it, seeing Charlie as a suicidal junkie is not what I want to see....I miss the old Charlie. I thought Daniel was very much like his on Island self, however. As for Desmond and the manifest from the flight. Clearly, imo, he's taking things in to his own capable hands..but, what is it that he'll show them? It will be interesting to see what Desmond's take will be on things when he gets back to camp XLocke. He went with Sayid, because he trusts Sayid. Clearly, Widmore will want and have to go after Desmond.
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CTgirl 7073 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-10, 10:09 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
You know, you just hit the nail on the head FloPo - I want to see all the Losties on the same team against all the intruders - the way it was during season 1!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-10, 02:57 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I do love this show (have loved it). michel is a big fan too, or he wouldn't be posting on it. But the writers are human, and sometimes a fan loses faith in them, and that is not a betrayal.I have watched every episode and I own all five seasons in DVD, although I haven't actually opened the box after buying Season 5. I'm a huge LOST fan, spent my time on Oahu a few years ago visiting as many shooting locations as I could. BUT I find myself not caring about what is going on with the Flash Sideways or the battle on the island. This is a very chaotic, fragmented season with respect to the island life, and they are pulling out some hackneyed stories for the FS. I also feel like they're using the fact they have a huge fan base as a way to get away with stuff that isn't really thought out very much. All they have to do is mix and match people in LA 2004 and throw in some moments of breakthrough almost memory to get people excited. Change things up a little bit. Meanwhile, on the island, way too many new characters who turned out to be little more than red shirts. Ilana is a boring character. I know nothing about her. Or Zoe. I don't like it when I don't know why I should care. In Season 4, they did good by giving the freighter folks a flashback almost right away, which gave them some solidity. Daniel and Miles, in particular, became very enjoyable characters. They have all these new characters. Meanwhile there are still red shirt 815 survivors and Ajira survivors who knows where. Surely there are Others and people who followed Richard who are out there somewhere. Plus the Temple folks, some dead. Then there are main characters that I can barely keep track of their whereabouts - who is with Jack, who is with FLocke, who is on Hydra, who is just out in the jungle expressing rebellion. Is anyone still at the statue? I don't know which beach is which any more. I used to know who was in the beach camp (or Hatch, or caves), and then there was the Other's camp. OK, and Richard and his people. And Danielle. That was enough. It was a nice polarity. Now it's just scattered. Now I realize that I could straighten all this out if I rewatched Season 6 to date, but I don't want to. I shouldn't need to. I think it's going to get worse before it resolves. Oh, and I think the wine bottle/cork metaphor is stupid. btw, the writers have admitted they had NO idea who the smoke monster was for quite a long time, that it was a fluid concept. It has not always been MIB.
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frodis 4442 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-10, 03:08 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I do understand your feelings, Outfrontgirl, and no one should have to qualify their "fan status" or love for the show. We all love it, some of us are just waiting (and enjoying) how it all plays out before feeling disappointed in the writers. I think that feeling betrayed by the writers now is a lot like feeling betrayed by your best friend because he forgot your birthday. You feel disappointed, let down, question all of the other things you see him doing and wonder why he has time for all of those things but can't take a moment to just wish you a happy birthday. So you complain about what a big jerk he is and how you've lost faith in him and question how good of a friend he really is to begin with. And then that evening, you walk into a room and the lights come on and you realize that he planned a big surprise party for you. The feelings of betrayal and disappointment are, of course, real and sincere and valid and no one should really question why you feel the way you do. You feel let down, because you expected something better. I get that. I trust the writers who have spun a good tale thus far, to finish it off in a fashion I will appreciate. Maybe you're right. Maybe there won't be a surprise party. Maybe they really are going to botch it. If they let me down, they let me down. I'll get over it. But I'm reserving my disappointment for after it's over. If I am disappointed after it's over I'm sure I'll be in good company. I really feel that when The End rolls around, there will be people who find it satisfying and people who find it unsatisfying. I'm not sure if that separation falls along the line of people who are looking for an island-based resolution and people who want a character-based resolution. I just watch the show. I don't listen to the podcasts or read a lot of articles or interviews with the writers or visit the websites or play the games. I don't think I'm any less of a fan, I just want to let the show be the show. I think that people who have gone deeper have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the non-show resources, and that's great. It's amazing that ABC and Lost have gone to such great lengths (Hanso websites, diaries of mysterious Losties. . .) to make it such a huge experience. I'm sure that the people who have followed the non-show goodies have truly enjoyed them. Now, maybe that's me being foolish - they put all of the extras out there because they want people to use them, read them, grab clues from them. Maybe I'm missing out on the total experience by relying on the show, itself, to tell me all I need to know. If it's meant to be enjoyed as a multimedia experience and I've willfully ignored 1/3 of it then, well, oops. I didn't know that the writers have said that they didn't know what Smokey was for a long time. Given a choice I'd have preferred not to know that (but I am not complaining that you mentioned it.) After it's all over I'd be interested in the process and speedbumps and abandoned choices that the writers kicked around, but for now I like to just let the show tell me the story. It's similar to the difference between reading for fun and reading critically.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-10-10, 03:00 AM (EST)
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44. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I do think it's Claire, weltek. I was just pointing out that the writers conveniently ignored the fact that the two were on the plane, whereas in a realistic situation, Charlie would've been quite likely to see the live and pregnant Claire either at the Sydney airport boarding area or on the plane.
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trigirl 2844 desperate attention whore postings
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04-12-10, 11:10 AM (EST)
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45. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
It was Claire.
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Tummy 3542 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-10, 09:19 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
I haven't read any of the other posts yet. Just finished watching the last two weeks episodes.Here's my take on it and I'm sure I'm either repeating someone or someone's going to roll their eyes. So. I think Desmond is going to be the one that merges the two realities. He's the only one that seems to remember his FS. And in the FS, even though our Losties seem happier, are anyone with the ones they love? And as I wrote that I remembered Rose and Bernard and John and whatshername are. It's obvious that the FS have happened in some plane because Charlie knew he loved Claire and Desmond saw the writing on Charlie's palm. So I don't think that the FS are what would have happened if Jacob hadn't of "touched" them.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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04-12-10, 12:16 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.11: "Happily Ever After"" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-10 AT 10:49 AM (EST)I basically agree with all who were let down by this episode. It served the following purposes: 1. Reintroduce Desmond to the current storyline,
2. Reestablish that Desmond is different from other characters,
3. Again utilize sideways reality to bring back an actor who otherwise would have to portray a ghost (more final season reunion). The first two could have been accomplished in a few minutes, the third in another minute. One thing I did get a little kick from, though, was the semi-nod to "The Time Tunnel." That, I believe, was intentional, and perhaps foreshadowing. "The Time Tunnel," for those of you unfamiliar with it, was a science fiction series that lasted one season, 1966-67. It was pretty cheap even by '60s standards. Two researchers of a government time project bounced through time, generally from one historical event to another (though a few times into situations which more fitted "The Twilight Zone"), while Time Tunnel personnel monitored their adventures and tried to figure out how to get them back home. One of the themes of the series was changing history. In the first episode the time travellers were aboard the Titanic and though they tried and tried they were unable to prevent the sinking of the ship. Lesson learned. It soon turned out that the time travellers would have to make certain that historical events happened as they were supposed to, as history has them unfold, which isn't always obvious as for instance when you are dealing with mythical Greek gods or space aliens (who are invariably evil). Okay, granted "Quantum Leap" did a much better job exploring the same themes dealing with history on a smaller scale (personal histories rather than major historical events), but QL not only had the advantage of a bigger budget and better writers, QL had Ziggy (a variation of the Enterprise computer which could supply any data requisite to the story). Exposition aside, one major difference between TTT and QL were how the series concluded. QL had an open-ended conclusion which, had the series been picked up for another season, was intended to take the series to another level. In TTT the final jump through time landed the time travellers... back on the Titanic! It was a loop! Is this foreshadowing?
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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