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"Episode 6.3: "What Kate Does""
mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-10, 05:44 PM (EST)
 
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"Episode 6.3: "What Kate Does"" |
Apparently, the two-hour season premiere counted as two episodes, so we are on to episode 3 on Feb. 9.Please keep all episode-specific discussion in this thread until the Left Coast has a chance to watch it. Here's the info for this episode (spoilerish info in the description and the thread linked at Lost Forum): Kate finds herself on the run, while Jack is tasked with something that could endanger a friend's life. --Kate-Centric-- Guest starring (among others): William Mapother as Ethan, John Hawkes as Lennon, Hiroyuki Sanada as Dogen, Daniel Roebuck as Dr. Arzt, Fredric Lehne as Edward Mars, Kimberly Joseph as Cindy. http://www.lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=83646  Tribefied
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-10, 11:05 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: PLEASE MARK SPOILERS!" |
LAST EDITED ON 02-06-10 AT 11:18 AM (EST)
Sorry, Zombiebaby, but I did mark the post as Vidcaps, as that is what they are....if you don't want to see anything for episode 6.3 then it's marked appropriately. I will mark spoilers in the subject line from now on.
But, again, I labeled it for what it is. I have edited the above post and removed the contents. I have replaced them into their own thread and labeled as spoilers.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 08:00 AM (EST)
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42. "RE: Artz" |
Am re-watching the premiere and Arzt is carrying a book when he bumps into Hurley. The back cover has scorpions, worms, beetles on it. It's in chart form, all creepy-crawlies.
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dajaki 1453 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 09:41 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: Episode 6.3: "What Kate Does"" |
Has it been discussed that Claire "raising" Aaron doesn't necessarily mean that she "rears him to adulthood"? Maybe she must raise him up (to a place or position) or raise him from the dead.
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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02-16-10, 09:16 AM (EST)
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59. "RE: Episode 6.3: "What Kate Does"" |
LAST EDITED ON 02-16-10 AT 09:24 AM (EST)was it real Locke who saw Christian and Claire in the Cabin and Claire was acting kind of weird? so was Christian really "Jacob" and Claire was really the "Man in Black"? It was real Locke that went looking for Jacob, along with Ben and Hurley. They went to the cabin and Ben refused to go in..."The Island wanted me to get sick, it wanted you to get well. My time is over, it's yours now. Once inside the cabin, Locke found Christian sitting in the chair. He pulled up a chair and sat and talked to him. Locke asked, "are you Jacob?". Christian replied: "No, but I can speak on his behalf." Locke then asked who he was, and Christian replied, "I'm Christian." Locke asked: "Do you know why I'm here?" To which Christian replied, "do you?" Locke responded: "I'm here because I was chosen to be." And, Christian replied, "that's absolutely right." Then Locke hears a noise and he turns around and there is Claire sitting in a chair smiling. She tells him, "Don't worry, I'm fine, I'm with him"
Locke asks where's the baby, and Christian says, "The baby is were he's supposed to be and that's not here. It's probably best you don't tell anyone you saw her."
Locke says, "why?" and Christian says "we don't have time for this, the people on the boat are already on their way back, and once they get here all of these questions won't matter, so why don't you ask the one question that does matter."
Locke asks, "How do I save the Island?"
Cut to Hurley and Ben outside and Locke comes out and tells them that he said they have to move the Island. See, Christian has always been associated with Jacob. I think this complements the story line now with Claire acting like Danielle Rousseau, if they were "claimed" by the light force, Jacob, and not the dark force. Interesting that Ben said the Island wanted him to get sick...referring to the dark force association with "infection". ETA: I realize that a lot of people assume that this Christian was the MIB because this is how he "tricked" Locke and found the loophole....just that this alternative gives us something else to ponder...perhaps this was not the start of the trickery, but an honest attempt for Jacob to save the Island.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-09-10, 11:06 PM (EST)
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11. "Hypothesis for the Loophole:" |
Nemesis needed a loophole to kill Jacob. Dogen confirmed our assumption that Sayid was possessed, “claimed”, by a force they do not trust, meaning Smokey/Nemesis. We know that Ben had been cured by the springs when he was a boy so we can assume he had been claimed by someone the Others trusted, namely Jacob, because they later made Ben their leader. That is probably the loophole Nemesis needed to find: Turning someone Jacob had claimed against him. Now, why did he need Locke? It could be that Nemesis needed someone to convince Ben to do it but Locke also was saved by the island, by Jacob, and had been the leader of the Others.I think I'll read up on the story of Kierkegaard acting as Abraham's lawyer. 
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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 09:22 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Episode 6.3: "What Kate Does"" |
Big time disappointed. That episode wasn't very good, no answers, no real anything happening, more questions.
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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 03:25 PM (EST)
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23. "Ethan" |
Ethan's mother is not Olivia. It was that other lady whose husband was killed, she then remarried Horace and had Ethan. They rpobably got off the island when the women and children were evacuated.
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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 03:22 PM (EST)
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22. "Honestly?" |
I thought this episode sucked. Sure any epsiode of Lost is better than none but at this stage of the game I feel gyped by last nights episode. It just highlighted the complete weakness of the Kate character. She just is not interesting. Don't even get me started on the plot holes of her on the run and no cops showing up anywhere and not even furthering their "search" for her in the hospital. Her throwing herself at Sawyer was beyond ridiculous and they better not go with a Sawyer/Kate endgame because that ship has sailed. I still am sure that Sayid is not inhabited by MIB. MIB is in Locke. That darkness could be in him as well as Claire and Ben but the actual MIB? Nope. I also think that it's not really that important. WE just need to know that they are not the same. Positives: Acting by Josh Holloway on the dock. He knocks it out of the park again. Most underrated of the cast. Jack and already interesting character has even more depth to him this season and I like the turns with him. Nice touch to use the Other henchman from 3 years ago.
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frodis 4442 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 04:49 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Episode 6.3: "What Kate Does"" |
What I liked:Sawyer. Great performance. Loved how he delivered the lines. Loved how Saywer didn't seem interested in Kate at all. Loved it when Jack swallowed the pill. The reaction of Dogen basically beating the crud out of Jack to get him to cough up the pill made it pretty clear that The Others want (need?) Jack to survive. Liked uncertain, confused, conflicted Jack. I know that not everyone likes Jack but I have decided that I do. (For a while I didn't.) I like the character development going on here. I think we have a lot of questions left on Jack, and now I'm not sure if he's even capable of answering them. He has no idea what to do when he can't fix things. Liked Ethan showing up as the doctor at the hospital. Ethan has tried to take Claire's baby before. I'm not sure if there was an undercurrent of creepy in his portrayal or if it just felt that way because we already know him as Ethan. Liked Clairesseau at the end. I didn't see it coming, guess I should have but I don't think that much about what's coming. Looking forward to how Jack reacts to finding out that Claire is his sister. Did not like:
Too many long, drawn out, lingering close up shots of Kate making her concerned, thoughtful, conflicted, criminal with a heart of gold face. Good grief, we have only so many minutes of LOST left, do we really have to spend SO many of them staring at Kate making the same face? While I'm on it, too much emoting and long silences from Dogen, too. Let's pick up the pace a little, please. It felt like filler. Did not like Clarie conveniently going into labor upon finding out that the family wasn't taking Aaron. Seemed forced. Tired of Jack-Kate-Sawyer. I really hope that the triangle disintegrates and goes away and we never speak of it again. I don't want any of them to wind up together. Overall, when this episode ended I felt kind of blah. I felt like it was a lot of filler and not much substance and I really felt like it was slow and tedious. General
I don't think the sickness is Smokey. Then again, I also do not think that Jacob is good. So, to me, if it's only a choice between Jacob/Smokey for who "claimed" Sayid, I don't know that either one is a winner. 
It's not just A Zombie Original, it's THE Zombie Original!
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 06:48 PM (EST)
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28. "Loopholes Cont'd..." |
LAST EDITED ON 02-10-10 AT 07:00 PM (EST)Although boring, this episode gave me clues to the island's secrets: Like I wrote before, the loophole Nemesis found to kill Jacob was using someone that Jacob had "claimed", namely Ben, to do the job. That got me thinking of something weird from episode 1: XLocke telling Richard: "Glad to see you without your chains." We had speculated that Richard had been a slave long ago but XLocke had been with Richard the whole time on the trek to Jacob's hide-out. By his reference to chains, I think XLocke was telling Richard that Jacob was dead. In XLocke's eyes, Richard was chained to Jacob because of his beliefs. I was also wondering why Dogen didn't simply kill Sayid, why did he have to get Jack to do it? If Sayid is claimed by Smokey then Dogen needed his own loophole to kill Sayid thus he used someone Sayid trusted. Thinking of that, I realized that Smokey never attacked the Others even if both roamed the island freely. I think that Smokey couldn't attack the Others because they were all "claimed" by Jacob. Ben couldn't kill Widmore because one was claimed by Jacob, the other by Smokey.
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zombiebaby 7355 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 08:29 PM (EST)
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32. "General themes" |
It's all about free will vs. destiny. The Others, Ben and even John Locke have used someone else to kill someone or do something that they "can't" do. Ben---> needed Jack "to want to save him". (spinal surgery)
used Locke to kill Cooper who Locke in turn used
Sawyer. Christian--->used Locke to turn the wheel, would not help. Dogen---> wanted Sayid to take poison by his choice, needed to
have Jack do it(kill him) instead of them doing it.
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frodis 4442 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 09:31 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: General themes" |
Tummy, here's what I think about the concept of free will and destiny with LOST.First of all, I think the writers are adhering to the idea that with time travel, you can go back and change things but that the universe will compensate for your changes and the outcome will be the same anyway. The idea is that because space-time is a physical thing, making a change isn't a matter of logic, it's a matter of physics. It takes a huge amount of energy to physically warp space-time. More energy than a person can apply, but possibly a bomb can do it? There are a lot of things that are happening in the 2004-redo timeline (where the plane doesn't crash) that parallel things that happened to the 2004-original timeline, just in a slightly different way. Charlie almost dying (by choking) and Jack saving him happened on the island, too. The paths of the Losties crossing. Christian's body getting lost. The idea also goes along with the whole thing where Desmond kept trying to save Charlie from dying, but Charlie was going to die in some way, no matter how many times Desmond prevented it. Here's something interesting. The Oceanic 6 (and a few others, like Desmond and Ben) have a timeline in their lives from 2004-2007 because they lived those years off the island. So they have a destiny and things that happened to them needed to happen. But there are people (Sawyer, Jin, Miles. . . ) who have a big gap. They were on the island in 2004, jumped around, wound up in 1977, and when the bomb went off, they jumped right into 2007. They have no personal timeline from 2004-2007 so THEY HAVE NO DESTINY. They're the wildcards. They're the ones who can make changes because they don't have any outcome to which they're supposed to achieve.
It's not just A Zombie Original, it's THE Zombie Original!
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Tummy 3542 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 09:45 AM (EST)
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50. "RE: General themes" |
Nice Fro - I'd never thought that for those that had wound up in '77 they had no history between '04-'07. Very interesting. You'd think Jacob and MiB would target those as they would be the easiest pawns as they had no outcome to uphold.
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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 09:57 AM (EST)
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51. "RE: General themes" |
Wow Fro, that is some deep thinking. Very interesting.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 10:20 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Loopholes Cont'd..." |
Yes, Otherton is what the writers call the DHARMA barracks.I'm not sure how to separate the Others from each other.
Cindy was at the cages with the children in Season 3; she was with Ben's group. And wasn't the guy who threatened Sawyer? But now they are both at the Temple. Were they sent there when Ben told everyone to go join Richard, when the mercenaries arrived? In 2004? I think everyone there other than Richard is from the outside world. Ben wasn't born on the island either. No one conceived on the island has lived, that we know of, since the time of Horace and Sarah, Charlotte, Miles. Some come as adults and some probably come over as children, but they all get recruited I think. What is "claimed" exactly? I'm confused about the concept. The sickness is what Sayid has, what Claire has, and what happened to Danielle's team. Danielle's team became as Dogen described, not themselves any more. Ben is still himself. He has always had his individual passions, envies, weaknesses. Locke was still himself until Ben killed him, I think. He was on a mission, sent by Christian, which I assume is Smokey, but he was still Locke, the guy that fails ... (but not in a wheelchair). So I don't see either of them as having the sickness. Maybe I read this topic too fast, as I haven't been around this forum before and am playing catch-up, and I haven't been to the Fuselage either since last year, but I don't know what the concept of being claimed entails.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-10, 10:39 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Loopholes Cont'd..." |
LAST EDITED ON 02-10-10 AT 10:43 PM (EST)Dogen said that Sayid was "claimed" by a dark force. I understood it to mean possessed and the torture he conducted looked like an exorcism. Now, we know that Ben went into those springs after being shot by Sayid so Ben must also have been claimed. Richard accepted Locke so I assume Dogen did also and that Ben wasn't claimed by the "dark force". "Ben is still himself." Well, according to Richard, Ben was going to be changed forever when Kate asked for his salvation. Locke also almost died but, instead of the springs, Walt appeared to him. Maybe there are other ways to claim someone. I remember that Ben had his own soldiers like the big guy that Sawyer killed. I remember Ben giving them direct orders. Those were the ones he brought to the island. At the same time, (Jack was bringing the Losties to the communications tower) Richard was in the camp and he had people around him that weren't under Ben's command. I took those as the "True" Others. Didn't Richard even tell Ben that it wasn't "our fight"?
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 00:21 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Loopholes Cont'd..." |
I agree that there is a group of Others that are Richard's people, not Ben's. Certainly Richard commanded the Hostiles, and Ben was DHARMA. After he was healed at the Temple, he did help Richard (and Jacob?) kill the DHARMA folks. He had already killed his own father. He seemed to be a nice little boy, so I'd say he did change! But supposedly he served Jacob, not Smokey.I don't think we know whether the Hostiles came and occupied the DHARMA barracks after DHARMA was wiped out. Some may have. At least some stayed with Richard out in the wilds, at the statue? (Didn't Ben say that Richard was easy to find because he'd always been at the statue?) Then clearly Ben AND Richard recruited people. Richard and Ethan recruited Juliet. Ethan took orders from Ben. He lived in the houses, not with Richard. But he and Richard worked together in some situations. btw, I looked up the scene where the Temple guard appeared before. For those like me who didn't remember him exactly, Aldo was the Other sitting in front of the building where Carl was being brainwashed, reading "A Brief History of Time." Alex, Sawyer, and Kate tricked him, and Kate knocked him out with a rifle butt as he said, then later Danny found him and yelled at him. No wonder he's sore at Kate. (Season 3.7, "Not in Portland."
The writers could have used anybody as a Temple guard. They didn't have to bring back Aldo and have him specifically remind Kate about the events on Polar Bear cage island. They're making it clear to us that the temple people have a crossover with Ben's people. Alex tricked Aldo by telling him that her Dad had sent her. So we know that Aldo answered to Ben. Now he answers to Dogen. We haven't seen Richard interact with the Temple people yet. He took Ben to the Temple in 1977, but the personnel would have been different. Writers having fun echoing: as they stared at Aldo wondering how to get by him, Alex said "I have an idea," and Sawyer says sarcastically, "of course you do." In What Kate Does, Justin tells Aldo (about the decoy trail) "I think she's right" and Aldo says "of course she is" with the same intonation. As far as the change in people goes, there seem to be different processes. Ben didn't die of the gunshot wound, as far as we know. Sayid died, and the spring wasn't clear.
Eko's brother died. Christian died. Smokey seems to have possessed their bodies. Smokey created an apparition of Walt, but he was not only not dead, he was elsewhere on the island, so that wasn't Walt's body. Nor was it Kate's horse that appeared to her. Locke died, off island, where it's not clear that Smokey can travel. Presumably he was "inhabited" after the plane crashed, similar to what happened to Christian. We don't know what happened to Claire after she disappeared. She doesn't seem anything like Locke. She is wild, like Danielle. But Danielle hadn't lost herself. She remembered her daughter. With Sayid there's no sign that he's "fake" Sayid as we saw with fake Locke. He has the same personality, whereas Locke had a new confidence and attitude. Sayid is infected and is going to change gradually. This is what Desmond was afraid of and why he took the vaccine, I would imagine. Or why he thought he was taking it. In Fire + Water, Charlie had visions that Aaron was in danger and needed to be baptized. Also, Claire was persuaded to give Aaron the vaccine. And of course Claire was being treated (but they didn't have enough medicine for both her and the baby? What was that about?) So it seems that children are vulnerable to this infection, and probably that relates to the thing that makes pregnant women die? I'm pretty confused about it all. I think we will understand what this is about very soon, but I don't think it's clear yet.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-10, 05:55 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Loopholes Cont'd..." |
I think the "true" Others were brought to the island by Jacob, not Richard. I do believe that the main difference between them and Ben's group is that they have mystical powers. The whispers that accompany them in the forest is not present when Aldo and his kind are seen. I'd bet they don't age like Richard. Cindy, Zach and Emma were on the list furnished by Jacob so there was something special about them.
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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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02-15-10, 06:55 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: Loopholes Cont'd..." |
Great discussion in here. I have some thoughts as well that I'd like to add.First, I enjoyed this episode. I noticed another big comparison in Flash: Sideways with Ethan and Claire. He wanted to dissuade her from more needle sticks and drugs, where on the Island, he was the one that wanted to give her the needle sticks and the drugs. This time, it was her free choice, on the Island, she didn't have free choice. Ethan's interaction mirrored her interaction with him on the Island, so to speak. I think that Dogan and the Temple Others are assuming that Sayid is "claimed" by the dark force....just as Claire was claimed by the dark force. But, is it the dark force that has claimed them? I think not. There was an illness as we saw with Danielle's French team and husband. They were infected with the illness and became insane and went to murder each other - Danielle. But, Danielle defended herself and shot them all. Just as she said to Claire in Season 2, "if your baby is infected, I trust you will know what has to be done". It's confusing, because I don't look at that as the same "illness" that the Others are vaccinating against, or Desmond and Ethan. I think they have been vaccinating against the possession that can occur. AS they are referring to what has happened with Sayid and with Claire. But, clearly they are assuming that Claire has been claimed. If Claire had been claimed than Rousseau must have been claimed as well. We know that the survivors of flight 815 considered Rousseau insane early on. But, I considered her one of the "good guys". I never thought she was insane, just a mother that lost her child. When I think of it this way, perhaps the other members of the French Science team were claimed, infected by the dark force, where Danielle perhaps was claimed by the light force. Clearly, they were not infected in the same way. I think that Jacob or the good force has claimed Sayid....just as perhaps Claire has been claimed....as perhaps CHRISTIAN was claimed by Jacob. We do NOT know who has claimed the body of Christian, just that he was dead and that he keeps reappearing. Claire was with Christian. The only time the ash circle was broken was when Ilana came to the cabin, not when Locke and company came and saw Claire and Christian there. I also want to state some observations. Dogan said in this last episode that he came to the island just as everyone came to the island. I think Jacob indeed brings people to the Island, and we know there are conflicts that arise time and again because of it. Man in Black comments that it is always the same end, where Jacob notes, it never ends, it's just progress. I think it will end with the last round of Jacob recruits to the Island, our survivors. I do not think the "Others" are on the same side as the survivors of flight 815. I do think they will perservere to resolve the conflict one way or the other for the Island.
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