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Duotone 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 09-25-03, 12:09 PM (EST) "Heart of a Schmo" Is Matt a decent guy? Seems like it--But far from having a "heart of gold" as Dr. Pat claimed. Consider this: -He knew the name of the porn star--that is one classy guy -Early on he planned to hook up with Ashleigh--thinking below the belt -From day one he's been scheming with other housemates--how sweet -Attended law school--anyone know a lawyer? Do they have hearts? -He's been around legal professionals so he knows how to put on airs -Moreover he's completely aware he's going to be watched by America--he obviously wants to come off like a "good guy" -He mentioned he first wanted to be on this show for fame and money--how admirable Like everyone, he has some good character traits, some bad character traits, but it is obvious that he wants more than anything else to be admired and honored by other people--if he was really secure in his greatness he wouldn't be so pathetically seeking this validation. It's not like in his down time he is working out ideas for feeding the homeless or making the world a better place--he is just thinking about himself, whether it's feeling sorry for himself or praising himself. Sorry Joe, you're a decent guy and I wish you the best, but you're still a Schmo.   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Heart of a Schmo Neffer 09-25-03 1    RE: Heart of a Schmo Jpod5 09-25-03 2        RE: Heart of a Schmo Duotone 09-25-03 3            So many Schmos to choose from, I pi... grubbmeister 09-26-03 4                RE: So many Schmos to choose from, ... Guppin1234 09-27-03 9                    RE: So many Schmos to choose from, ... grubbmeister 09-27-03 10                        RE: So many Schmos to choose from, ... Guppin1234 09-27-03 11                            RE: So many Schmos to choose from, ... grubbmeister 09-27-03 12                                RE: So many Schmos to choose from, ... Duotone 09-29-03 13                                    Cynics Then and Now grubbmeister 09-29-03 14    RE: Heart of a Schmo grubbmeister 09-26-03 5  RE: Heart of a Schmo grubbmeister 09-26-03 6    RE: Heart of a Schmo Duotone 09-26-03 7        RE: Is Joe "good" or is he "perfect... grubbmeister 09-26-03 8  RE: Heart of a Schmo Neffer 10-01-03 15    RE: Heart of a Schmo Guppin1234 10-01-03 16        RE: Heart of a Schmo grubbmeister 10-02-03 17            RE: Heart of a Schmo Guppin1234 10-02-03 18    RE: Heart of a Schmo Duotone 10-02-03 19        RE: Heart of a Schmo OceansAngel16 10-02-03 20            RE: Heart of a Schmo grubbmeister 10-03-03 22        RE: Heart of a Schmo Guppin1234 10-02-03 21

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Neffer 109 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 09-25-03, 01:23 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" LAST EDITED ON 09-25-03 AT 07:19 PM (EST) I agree with the main point of your post. But I disagree with the motives and reasons your ask us to consider. Matt is a regular guy, far from the average reality show cast member. Far from perfect either; he is human. Dr. Pat's comments were prompted by the personal interaction she had with Matt. Of course no one has a "heart of gold" or acts with no consideration for themselves, except maybe Mother Theresa. Certainly not your average Joe American. But I digress. Matt has acted in a caring manner, at times chivalrous, as well as at times reprising, and angry. I wouldn't call this pathetic or grand. Just Schmo. And I don't use that term negatively. -Neffer (Big Schmo) Edit--Jpod5, you said it better than I.(See post #2.)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Jpod5 147 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 09-25-03, 07:01 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" There seems two sides of Matt, one is the selfish side that you can hardly help but acquire in our society, and the other is quite selfless...which is probably what people are talking about when saying he's a 'good guy'. The first post documents his selfish tendencies, but consider how genuinely concerned he seems for others: -sticking up for Kip vs Hutch -giving honest credit to everyone's comfort item (even went so far as to feel bad that Earl didn't have one). -giving Dr. P a trip...which to me more than outweighed her 'trauma'. -went against the crowd and left the room when he felt Gina's privacy was being invaded (granted he read it, but it's tough to do the right thing when you're basically calling everyone else in the room wrong). -telling Hutch (who he's supposedly in competition with) that he was pissing people off. -telling kip he had the right card in his trick. I think he even made out-loud comments at other people's low scores...and this was a competition FOR IMMUNITY! And so on. So while he certainly is the stereotypical American male in many regards, I think he has more selfless tendencies than most. jlm   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Duotone 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 09-25-03, 09:51 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" I believe his acts of generosity are mainly due to his awareness of an audience. In public he acts one way, in private another, and I think we can tell more about a person by how they act when no one is around...and I really don't want to know what Matt is doing in that house when no one is around...you know one thing he's doing is basking in some false glory, as everyone kisses up to him and act like he's Carson Daly/Antonio Banderas when the reality is that he is a flabby failure, pathetically groping for an identity like most of us.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-26-03, 08:18 AM (EST) 4. "So many Schmos to choose from, I pick Matt" LAST EDITED ON 09-26-03 AT 08:40 AM (EST) >I believe his acts of generosity are mainly due to his >awareness of an audience. In public he acts one >way, in private another, and I think we can tell >more about a person by how they act when no >one is around... I liked your posting. I can't fault your logic on most of what you've said, and I find many thoughts genuine and unique. Thank you for some fresh insights. On the other hand, I happen to like Matt very much, which may be attributed to the fact of his awareness of an audience, but how far has that gone on other reality shows? Com'on, truthfully now? I haven't met a person my entire life, (except one-flesh and blood) who lives out many contradictions. Many of us find ourselves like the digital monk in one of Douglas Adams' books, programmed to simultaneously hold 13 contradictory thoughts in our minds.** I guess for that, we are all Schmo's (fools) to varying degrees. But I have a hard time pointing at someone else and calling them a fool. Matt, for all his weaknesses and strengths, is for real, I believe. "But none of it is real..." Like Jim Carey's character on the Truman Show, he is what is genuine in the middle of all the tomfoolery. He is real. On the other hand: So...Let he who is never a schmo be the first to pick up the stone and throw. **Edit: Even your own screenname, DUOTONE, may suggest to many that you have two (or more) contradictory messages (hey, everything is open to conjecture, here), but I'm sure you have your own reasons.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guppin1234 909 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 09-27-03, 03:55 PM (EST) 9. "RE: So many Schmos to choose from, I pick Matt" "So...Let he who is never a schmo be the first to pick up the stone and throw." If you've ever been a schmo who better to cast the first stone. He's been there, learned from it, and has something to say, and I'm making a huge assumption he could be objective... pointing out the good and the bad. (Middle class average people) If you've never been a schmo and you cast the first stone you would only be interested in remaining a righteous know-it-all with only being able to trash people = no credibility with the rest of us (most of us). (Cheerleaders and football stars) If you've only been a schmo, you'd be the perpetual victim and on the defensive all the time = no credibility with some of us. (Stoners, psych patients and nerds without stylists)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-27-03, 07:28 PM (EST) 10. "RE: So many Schmos to choose from, I pick Matt" >> "So...Let he who is never a schmo be the >> first to pick up the stone and throw." >If you've ever been a schmo who better to cast the >first stone. He's been there, learned from it, and >has something to say, and I'm making a huge assumption >he could be objective... pointing out the good and the >bad. (Middle class average people) Thank you for the attention given to my re-deployment of a popular phrase. I give you the same respectful treatment for your trouble. First off, I used present tense, not past. People who continually (present tense) live out contradictions (like everyone I know) are unable to guide others from the realm of schmoism. Like the saying, "Remove the plank from your own eye so you can see clearly to remove the speck from someone else's." The rest of your discourse was reminiscent of an ancient Greek philosophy paper I read once about "The True Cynic" by a fellow named Diogenes. I found a relevant link, http://www.i-cynic.com/whatis.asp, but did not see the actual essay to which I refer. Interestingly, Diogenes found that a "true cynic" avoided the extremes you mentioned, even willing to stay and suffer forms of insult and abuse himself, that after pointing out the folly, that he might disabuse the simple of their idle notions, and nurturingly guide his fellow man away from schmoism. Similar to what you said, so yes, if a schmo (past tense) becomes an ex-schmo, perhaps he has something helpful to say. What is even more interesting, Matt seems to exhibit these qualities of a "true cynic" in that he will stick out his neck to even try to counsel jerks like The Hutch.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guppin1234 909 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 09-27-03, 08:45 PM (EST) 11. "RE: So many Schmos to choose from, I pick Matt" So counseling The Hutch makes Matt a cynic? If he's truly counseling Hutch, then he's trying to help. If he's being cynical than he's gonna try to pick a fight with Hutch as he did in the second episode when he ruined Kip's photo album. However, counseling or mocking Hutch is a lost cause. He's got a superiority thing going on which exacerbates his hearing problem. Matt may say, "Hutch, you're taking the A$$hole thing too far" but the Hutch hears, "Hutch, you are like a God to me, bow to the Hutch and all his Hutchness."   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-27-03, 09:54 PM (EST) 12. "RE: So many Schmos to choose from, I pick Matt" Ah, more problems with semantics. Please understand the meaning of the term cynic has been largely revised over the past two thousand years. Today, cynic has a negative connotation, unlike the depth of character it was once meant to portray. Perhaps better definitions exist, but this will suffice   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Duotone 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 09-29-03, 00:00 AM (EST) 13. "RE: So many Schmos to choose from, I pick Matt" Actually the word cynic comes from the Greek word "cynos" which means dog. Early Cynics were so-called for their indifference to manners, customs, and laws since they thought that as long as you were a good man no harm could come to you. Strange but true.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-29-03, 01:49 PM (EST) 14. "Cynics Then and Now" >Actually the word cynic comes from the Greek word "cynos" >which means dog. Early Cynics were so-called for their >indifference to manners, customs, and laws since they thought >that as long as you were a good man no harm could come to >you. Strange but true. Yeah, the link above (http://www.i-cynic.com/whatis.asp) reveals his manner of introducing himself, "I am Diogenes the dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels." It goes on to say, "He'd use a lantern by daylight, explaining that he was searching for an honest man." However, in the treatise I've read, he maintained he was trying to better his fellow man. He evidentally had his own problems with honesty, and for that matter lived out his own contradictions in that he and his contemporaries' abusiveness in stripping away layers from others left them with the enduring caricature you've listed above. From your words, I can't help but think about The Hutch, except that he makes no pretensions about trying to help his fellow man, so perhaps he is a better "cynic" than old Diogenes, himself.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-26-03, 08:21 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" no apologies necessary, your comments were helpful.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-26-03, 08:34 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" The fact he studied law cannot, in itself, either denegrate (or exhonerate) his character. We need good lawyers, not just a group of arrogant, heartless schmucks. There are some good lawyers, and there are several jokes about where to find them. One theory: Six feet under Another: Six feet under...because, deep down, they're all good. If in fact, all our law schools are teaching the "moral vacuum" principle (as mentioned on "Daredevil"), and if all their students are buying it, we do have a problem. Luckily, not all of them buy into it. Also, the fact he dropped out of law cannot mean anything, without knowing more about it. I've had to be around lawyers, and Matt doesn't strike me as the selfish, heartless brood of vipers type. If he were to go back into law, I hope he'd come out as clean as when he went in, but I'm not sure how strong his character is to fight against what is being forcefully pounded in. In most situations, though, I think most people in this thread agree, he does far better than average.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Duotone 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 09-26-03, 12:37 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" I know my post comes across a little cynical and mean but before we call his good behavior "good", we should see what his motivations are. I just think he is really average, but he obviously knows how to be kind, which is to be encouraged.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 09-26-03, 01:24 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Is Joe "good" or is he "perfect"" You're right, we can't argue semantics. In it's strictest sense, the word "good" cannot be applied to any person. However, for the everyday audience, more lenient definitions for "good" are in play. Matt meets those criteria in my book. On the other hand, the everyday audience has a very strict definition for the word "perfect" (as meaning 100% flawless), and Matt is by no means perfect by that measure. Even so, many may consider him "perfect" in that he is a mature, well-rounded, caring, and whole person. This is a problem with semantics, two people who are actually in agreement on certain concepts can find themselves in an argument on those same points. I don't think he is only average because, despite his minor flaws, he goes out of his way to try to keep the peace, not content to stay back and gossip, scheme and conspire like so many others, even putting himself on the line to get into one-on-one conversations with jerks like Hutch and the first girl who left (see episode 1). It did bake my noodle slightly that he tried to get rid of Ashleigh, but I think he felt like she was playing with his mind. Let's face it, she's very cute, and the eyes she was making in the hot-tub, then his "true confessions on T.V.", followed by her "brother talk". I don't blame him. Like the line on the Rufus Wainwright song, "Hallelujah" (heard on "Shrek"),..."All I ever learned from love was how to shoot at someone who outdrew you." Yeah, it is slightly childish, yeah it is a contradiction, but that's how it goes, sometimes.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Neffer 109 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 10-01-03, 01:40 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" ...he is just thinking about himself, whether it's feeling sorry for himself or praising himself. I have a new take and disagree with these motives. The only times he has been teed off on camera occurred in defense of a housemates privacy, a housemates honor, a housemates safety, and when Hutch's tootsies were on the dinner table. These all are reasonable and only one is selfish. Can you blame the guy on that one though? C’mon. None of use can know why Matt acts in that manner, and it doesn't matter to me anyway. What's important are his actions and they speak for themselves. How many people come straight out and say what is on their mind like Matt? I am pleased to see Matt's blunt way of dealing with other people. He is respectful of other's uniqueness, but doesn't put up with it when that individual pushes himself or herself on someone else. -Neffer, #cruncher   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guppin1234 909 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 10-01-03, 05:58 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" "How many people come straight out and say what is on their mind like Matt?" This forum comes pretty close. We just have to think up code words for basher comments so we don't get banned then we will have reached nirvana. Thing is, if you reach nirvana in this life, you will be reborn as a Central Park squirrel in the next life, and we all know about balanitis in this forum, now don't we?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 10-02-03, 11:52 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" So is Joe in Nirvana, or is he the squirrel?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guppin1234 909 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 10-02-03, 02:19 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" Neither. Joe holds back. IMHO   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Duotone 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 10-02-03, 06:35 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" I would love to see someone defending Matt's nobility as we watch him crazily romp all over a chocolate covered stripper...girls should be lining up for this extraordinary gentleman.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

OceansAngel16 172 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 10-02-03, 09:55 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" I don't think there is any way anyone could defend Matt's noblility as we wach him with that chocolate covered stripper...The only possible person would probably be the stripper herself.. Or his mother maybe..and as for girls lining up for him, hard to say on that point, yeah he is a great guy and an extraordinary gentleman, but most girls these days go for guys based on looks and money and their career..Plus he had to move back in with his parents..   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

grubbmeister 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 10-03-03, 05:08 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" >I don't think there is any way anyone could >defend Matt's noblility as we wach him with >that chocolate covered stripper...The only >possible person would probably be the stripper >herself.. Or his mother maybe..and as for girls >lining up for him, hard to say on that point, >yeah he is a great guy and an extraordinary >gentleman, but most girls these days go for >guys based on looks and money and their career.. >Plus he had to move back in with his parents.. All in all, the above is a fairly rational assessment. As for the aside: the commentary on today's dating scene seems highly accurate. I could almost agree with you guys after the last episode, but just as a mother will defend at all times, I think a loyal friend would do the same. I've accepted attacks toward friends and family too often in the past, and I've already said I would love to have a friend like Matt (if so, it's time to start being loyal to people like him). Difficult to understand the comment about the stripper as an honorable remark, however, other than perhaps you're saying a person will almost always defend their vocation as being a noble one. Also, the term "gentleman" almost sounds like a euphenism, as in a "gentleman's club." So I wonder if you said it "tongue in cheek," so to speak. Aside from that, everyone is entitled to a defense. If Matt would be willing to accept it, I would offer it along these lines: While Matt did not turn away from the activities, he was set up to a large degree. How was he set up? Firstly, Chocolate is known to have not only a slight narcotic effect, but is also a known aphrodisiac. From the very beginning of the competition, Matt indicated he had severe reactions to Chocolate. Further, Matt has never gone against any group plan, however outlandish, so he meets the needs of our society (however warped) to have a good "team player". Unfortunately, our society no longer applauds or rewards the individuals and the idealists. Just read the help wanted ads for an example of our decay in this area! Once Matt gave in to the group plan and the effects of the narcotic, he looked very unlike himself from any of the previous episodes. Remember episode one? Who released the naked woman first that day? Matt or Molly? Next, he was set up in that the other guys went first, the only example of someone with the gumption to go against the grain, Molly, came after him. People may say Matt merely gave in to urges he already had, we could just as easily assume he would never put himself in that situation to begin with. Also, Brian ("the Buddy" - LOL) and Hutch (the Jerk) can always claim "they didn't inhale," so to speak, since they were just actors, but their example set Matt up to make a public display on national network T.V.... Scums and Slimeballs! Further, Considering the above, while Matt gave every indication on camera, both in word and deed, that he was a willing participant, I would also have to claim the principle of entrapment for the following reasons: The measure is not in that he gave in to bachelor party-style antics after being under duress from producers' expectations and after being drugged, but in that human nature is already considered at most fragile, and any effort to push one over the edge, morally speaking, is entrapment. Severe warnings are due for those who would cause others to stumble in these ways. Since the producers not only facilitated, but further sanctioned and authorized this event (and in doing so abused their authority), Matt gave in to things he would have never otherwise considered doing or acted on. The first message of this thread claimed that Matt only looked like he had a heart of gold because he was aware of the camera. As far as that goes, Matt's consideration of the camera compelled him to prove he could be friends with the gay guy without being gay himself. Now, however, it seems this argument about "camera awareness" has been reversed by not only orignal writer, but by others in this forum. Of course, if you look hard enough, most everyone today contradicts themselves in many ways. By the same token, after being drugged and misled, I think Matt contradicted himself on the last episode, and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen again, and I hold the producers responsible if it does.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guppin1234 909 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 10-02-03, 09:57 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Heart of a Schmo" Oh man, he really got into that one, then he said "I tried to think of where I would strategically hide the letters if I was her" - sounds like a chocolate-covered rationalization to me   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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