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"S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List"
Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-04-12, 06:43 PM (EST)
 
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"S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
An annoying episode for me to watch for the following reason:
Sure, I'll agree with the overwhelming majority and say Tarzan & wife and Christina & dad would have been the more popular choices. Reasons such as selfishness, naivete, and immaturity were tossed around as to WHY she chose who she did instead of the focus being HOW she was able to make those choices to begin with. And HOW was Kat able to make those choices?BECAUSE HER (AND HER COUSIN) KICKED ALL YOUR A$$ES IN THE RC! If anyone had a beef with her choices then you (and your loved one) should have stepped up and won the damn RC yourselves so YOU could have chosen the ones YOU wanted, instead of criticizing Kat's choices at camp, in confessionals, and at TC which, unfortunately, comprised a majority of this episode. Nuff Said. 1) KIM (9,5,4,7,1,1,2,1,1,2,1) - Just another "bad day" for Kim. **snort** She goes on another reward. She wins another IC. And she still had her HII in safekeeping. Even when she didn't get her way to vote out Sabrina, it still works to her benefit. You know Kat will be a hysterical trainwreck when it's her turn to address the finalists at FTC. All Kim would need to say is Kat wasn't HER choice, but majority ruled. She secures Kat's vote, and the best part is she actually doesn't even have to lie this time.
So how big of a dropoff is there between Kim and the rest?
Only the select few who have reached the summit of Mt. Everest and looked down can answer that question firsthand.
2) CHRISTINA (6,2,6,5,9,5,3,5,8,7,7) - Her reunion with her dad and sharing his story and the limited time he has is definitely the most heartfelt moment of this season. That's enough to put her #2 this week. Oh, and a solid effort in the IC doesn't hurt either.
3) TARZAN (11,12,15,14,13,10,9,10,6,5,5) - You question how you "deserve" your wife? Ask your accountant; I'm sure he/she has your W-2 on file...that may provide an answer. Even so, a pretty humbling remark from Tarzan. The reason he's #3 is he didn't do anything to tick me off...WOW, that's two episodes in a row! Only a few grains of sand are left in his hourglass, and the only realistic way I see that hourglass getting turned over is to win the next IC. 4) CHELSEA (2,8,8,10,5,7,6,9,4,4,4) - For all her ranting about Kat being selfish at RC, I have a loaded question for Chelsea. If Kat chooses you would you get Jeff's attention and graciously give up your (and your dad's) spot for Christina and her dad, or Tarzan and his wife? Why is it loaded? Because if your answer is YES, then you're a liar. If your answer is NO, then you're a two-faced hypocrite. Let's vote out Kat because she's selfish. Call me stupid, but at this stage of the game I try to make it to the Finals and surround myself with as much selfishness as I can get. Instead she wants to sit next to Kim who'll probably beat her like a rented mule when the votes are read at the Reunion Show. So who's the naive one? 5) SABRINA (1,1,1,1,4,3,4,4,3,3,2) - Very disappointing episode for her. What I just said about Kat's selfishness with Chelsea is ditto for Sabrina. Not sure if her poor performance in the challenges was on purpose, but it did buy her more time. HMMM, let's analyze that concept. Reward someone for either giving up and quitting or ineptness; penalize someone for putting out optimum effort. It just goes to show you how Survivor gamemanship has been reduced to the gutter and how pathetic some of these castaways are. 6) ALICIA (16,16,13,12,7,12,11,6,7,8,6) - Last week Kat stated she was "running the show;" this week Alicia makes the same delusional claim. Could this be a trend? One can only hope. Yet in all this mess she may very well be secured a spot in the F3. But she would only get there because she's a miserable human being who cannot win. BOOTED) KAT (12,14,12,11,12,10,7,8,5,6,3) - She returned from TC wearing the "scarlet letter" (thanks to Troy's comment,) but her questionable choices at RC and her poor sportsmanship at IC sealed her fate. Grieve all you want about Christina outlasting you, but if you listened to Troy last episode and wrote down Christina's name, then YOU would have outlasted HER. I suspect most (other than Kim and Chelsea) will look back and realize if they listened to Troy it would have given them a better chance to win also.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-05-12, 01:09 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
I like your list Aruba and understand exactly where you are coming from but, when you write:"Reward someone for either giving up and quitting or ineptness; penalize someone for putting out optimum effort. It just goes to show you how Survivor gamemanship has been reduced to the gutter and how pathetic some of these castaways are." I have to remind you of the final episode of Season 1: Hatch stepped off.
Not only did he win by quitting but quitting that challenge was the BEST way for him to win. That is Survivor. Always has been, always will be. If players don't consider the consequences of their actions, they will get voted out. I'm not saying that Sab stepped off on purpose but it didn't reduce Survivor to anything that it wasn't already. BTW, that's why I like the social game, not the physical one.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-12, 06:54 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
I wasn't thrilled when Hatch quit. I would have preferred to see him stick it out even though there's no way Kelly loses that final IC against Hatch and Rudy. I agree that quitting and bailing out has always been part of Survivor mainly because it a sad and pathetic reality in life itself. It's easier to quit than it is to give it your best effort and many losers are ALWAYS looking to take the "easy way out." Such is the society we live in...sad but true. But my pet peeve isn't so much the actual act of quitting...it's REWARDING someone for quitting or sucking in something, and conversely, penalizing someone for giving their best effort. In S1, Kelly was not penalized for winning that final IC, and Hatch did not win because he stepped down. He won because he was the ONLY one in the inaugural cast who knew how to play the game without any prior blueprint...bailing out in the final IC notwithstanding. For that reason I rarely use Bonero in any discussions to prove my point. Hatch was not the only one who quit the final IC. Matt did in Amazon; and the result...he lost. Katie did it also in Palau; and the result...she lost. Finally I do differentiate somewhat between ONE PLAYER giving up in the final IC versus not trying at this stage of the game or being a quitter throughout the season. You mentioned Hatch in Bonero and I mentioned Matt in Amazon, yet BOTH players put out decent efforts throughout their respective seasons. Lastly, if two castaways are going to honor a F2 agreement or both do not want that third person in the Finals, it really doesn't matter WHO wins that FIC so long as ONE of them does.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-12, 10:47 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
"In S1, Kelly was not penalized for winning that final IC, and Hatch did not win because he stepped down."Sorry but if Hatch had won the challenge, he would have had to eliminate Rudy and he most likely loses his vote and the million. So, yes, he did win by quitting. "Matt did in Amazon; and the result...he lost." Matt was always going to lose a final vote so it wasn't because he stepped off. Actually, the player that lost because Matt stepped off was Cesternino and the funniest thing is that it was Cesternino himself that told Matt that it was dumb to put optimal effort in all the challenges. No one ever mentions that dumb move by Cesternino when it comes to moves that cost someone the game but that's one of the biggest ever. Katie didn't quit in Palau. She stayed up 4 hours. What more were you expecting? I don't accept the parallel to the state of society: In real life, quitting is indeed the easy way out but, in Survivor, it is often a powerful tool. Even Yul said he didn't give optimal effort in most ICs after the merge and there were very few more intelligent players than Yul. Kim echoed the same sentiment in this very episode before saying that she prefered to feel safe. That was her choice but she made it clear her intention had been to avoid looking like a challenge threat. And how about all the tribes that threw challenges to save allies that had been swapped to the other side? It's very often the best thing to do. That is a reality particular to Survivor, not society. Make it part of your strategy or be prepared to lose. Why win when you don't need to? It's so much better to be in a good position than to rely on winning those mickey mouse challenges.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-12, 11:47 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
I believe you'd find that a majority of people who "gave up" in challenges had no shot of winning anyway. It is easy to say afterwards that "giving up" was good strategy.And yes, there were times that not winning was good strategy. Hatch and Parvati both made good decisions to not win. Matt did as well. He would not have beaten Jenna or Rob in a vote. He could have possibly gained a vote, however, if either were bitter with the other. However, every winner has relied on challenges at some point in order to win. Even those who never won a challenge themselves. Sandra, twice a winner, is an obvious early boot if her tribe isn't strong enough to win challenges to protect her early on. If Lelah doesn't beat Kathy O'Brien, Vecepia doesn't win. If Russell doesn't beat Brett, Natalie doesn't win. If Cirie beats Parvati and Amanda in the Micronesia F3, Parvati is the one who has played 3 times and never won, not Cirie. The game for Danni and Chris ends at F3 if not for their IC wins. And it goes on and on and on... >
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-12, 01:25 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Neleh. Oh my heck.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-12, 08:38 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
>Sandra, twice a winner, is an
>obvious early boot if her
>tribe isn't strong enough to
>win challenges to protect her
>early on. I used to think that but have now come to realize that it's really selling Sandra short: Other weak players such as Scout, Lydia or Nicaragua Dan were kept even if their tribes went to an early TC and Sandra was smarter than all of them.
Anyway, the Villains went to TC in episode 3 and Sandra was in no danger. She wouldn't have been in danger even if the Villains had lost the first challenge. A two time winners should get the benefit of the doubt. >If Lelah doesn't beat Kathy O'Brien,
>Vecepia doesn't win. Vecepia also beat Kathy so bad example. The important point is that Vee was smart enough to let Neleh win. >If Russell doesn't beat Brett, Natalie
>doesn't win. If Russell is smart, Brett leaves much earlier. But the dumbass needed to get Kelly out and later Dave. Bad example >If Cirie beats Parvati and Amanda
>in the Micronesia F3, Parvati
>is the one who has
>played 3 times and never
>won, not Cirie. You'd be the first to say that counting on Amanda beating Cirie was the smart bet: Bad example. >The game for Danni and Chris
>ends at F3 if not
>for their IC wins. Twila was taking Chris to the end, knowing Scout would beat her. Bad example also for Danni because I clearly said: Winning immunity is bad when you don't need it.
>And it goes on and on
>and on...
Find me a good example first before going on and on!
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-12, 11:16 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Sandra - Totally different scenario if either of the tribes she was on lose the first two ICs instead of winning the first two. Tribes that start out losing have the tendency to target the weak. She never had to worry. Vecepia - Still doesn't change the fact that if Kathy wins that IC, she wins the game. Russell - Yeah, and if Russell would have crapped gold bricks then that IC wouldn't have mattered. Arguing that the IC "shouldn't" have mattered doesn't change the fact that it DID. Cirie - Again, Amanda likely winning doesn't change the fact. If Cirie wins, she wins the game. Chris - Twila would have taken him anyway. NO WAY. And even if she would have, what if SCOUT WINS?? Oh! Danni - You seem confused about what I am saying. I am not arguing that it is a good idea to lose when you don't need to win. I have already conceded that. What I am saying is that the challenges have played a key role in EVERY winner. If Danni doesn't win that IC, she is out like Cirie at the F3. In the end, her alliances couldn't protect her. In the end, it came down to a CHALLENGE. Plain and simple. I'm sure I could post examples from every season and you could find some way to say they are "bad examples." Ultimately, there is a reason why Kim isn't relying on her ALLIANCE to protect her, same as Tom didn't rely on his. Virtually every player who has been booted had an alliance of some sort. That isn't 100% sure to save you. Only one thing is- winning challenges. Pagong had an alliance, as did Zapatera, as did Kucha, as did Raro, as did Ulong... for all the good that did them.
>
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-12, 08:10 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
"I am not arguing that it is a good idea to lose when you don't need to win. I have already conceded that"Then why are we arguing at all? Aruba was talking about Sabrina, saying she was rewarded for stepping off, adding that it was an example of how the quality of Survivor players has degraded over the years. I told him it wasn't a new trend, that Survivor had always been like that. I said you shouldn't rely on challenges but if there's no other option then, of course, try your best and hope that it isn't lilly pads! And to clarify, Chris himself said he knew Twila would take him. They had actually made a deal: They go to the F2 together and the winner pays a Harley Davidson to the loser. Suggesting that Scout could win made me chuckle.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-12, 06:25 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
I've been MIA the past few days and look at all I've missed!Michel, It's apparent many of our discussions seem to end up with that same fundamental difference of opinion. You see a separation between how a castaway acts on the show vs. how they live their lives. I don't. I'll never buy into the notion where this "transfiguration" occurs the minute Jeff's says, "Game On" and immediately after Day 39 they can "flip the switch" back to "reality." Simply put, I feel if a player lies on the show, they lie in life. If a player quits in the game, they quit in life. And if a player looks for the easy or lazy way out in Survivor, that's pretty much their MO outside of the game. I'm sure you're not alone in this disagreement, but hey...different strokes for different folks.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-12, 10:30 PM (EST)
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4. "My List" |
1- Kim: Now that the tribe is hunting challenge and jury threats maybe she should worry! More damage control needed.2- Chelsea: I'm not sure which game she is playing but taking deserving players to the end isn't what she should be doing. 3- Alicia: Why was she worried about Kat winning challenges if Kat was taking her to the end? These people just can't understand this game. 4- Sabrina: She is way too obvious in her attemtps to gain jury votes. 5- Christina: The door just opened for her to slip to the end. 6- Tarzan: Has he lulled Kim into forgetting about him? Danni won by making Rafe feel like he was a genius and Tarzan's "boss lady" comment reminded me of Danni. (Never thought I'd compare HIM to Danni!) Booted - Kat: I bet her whole edit was done with the idea of bringing her back and making us wonder if she has learned anything.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-12, 02:42 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: My List" |
I see I am not the only person to wait until the weekend to view the episode. Is this thread a sign of disappearing interest with this season? I would say I am less interested. There are still two definite points of interest for me though. 
1. CHELSEA - Maybe #2 in the game, but she is #1 to me. She was honest in her criticism of Kat, and it should surprise no one that she let everyone know about it. By the way, everyone agreed with her, even Ms. Strategy herself immediately blasted Kat about it. Win the RC? Heck no. Unless its your wife or a dying parent waiting for you, you don't want to have anything to do with winning that challenge. The bottom-line is that she wanted Sabrina to stay, and she got her way. Its smart too. Sabrina keeps her and Kim in power. Without Sabrina, Alicia could try to swing Tarzan and Kat against them. Kim has the HII and can take that chance; Chelsea doesn't. And really, even if it wasn't smart, Chelsea would defend Sabrina out of loyalty, and I respect that. 
Hey, Tarzan, what are you looking at?
2. KIM - Her words are proving prophetic for herself as she is having a hard time stomaching her own lies. Kat looked right at her when she got booted. Kat was a guaranteed vote for Kim. Now? Maybe or maybe not. Booting your alliancemates out of the order they are expecting could lead to a lot of bitterness come FTC. Remember when she said everyone would know she was the one making the decisions followed by the ominous sound effect and the cut to Chelsea? Yeah. Kim is still the favorite, but obviously Sabrina and Chelsea are doing better with the jury than what we've been shown or Kim wouldn't be so interested in taking goats. 3. SABRINA - She definitely gained points with the jury this episode. At the same time, she gave Kim a good reason to keep her around. If she followed through with her threat of not voting for the person who betrays her, then that opens the door for someone like Chelsea to win. On the other hand, she continued to show why Kim would probably prefer to not face her in a FTC. Fortunately for Sabrina, Chelsea's loyalty extends to her, and Kat managed to convince Alicia that she should go. 4. CHRISTINA - Except for the detail on her dad, her edit pulled the amazing disappearing act again. Frankly, I am glad but amazed she has skated this far. On the other hand, if the threats are the ones in danger, then she might continue to slide. 5. ALICIA - The edit was all about Kim, Chelsea and Alicia. She was edited as delusional, and if the subtle hints weren't working, then Kim said it outright. She might snake her way into the F3. However, notice how during the family visit, which often spells out the F3, about half the time was spent back at camp with Sabrina and Chelsea? She is a sure vote for Kim. So, put her on the jury. I totally don't get turning on Kat over her challenge ability. EVERYONE beats Alicia in the challenges. She violated one of my first rules of Survivor: never turn on your closest ally before the finals. 6. TARZAN - He was smart enough to get in tight with the leader of the women's alliance. However, can he still slide? I still don't think any of the women would take the chance of having him in the F3 with a majority male jury. He is another sure vote for Kim. So, again, she would be wise to put him on the jury. ITS ALL OVER BUT THE CRYING KAT - In the end she went down thanks to the oldest postmerge reason in the book- being a challenge threat. That isn't a surprise. What is a surprise is how early it happened. We haven't seen anyone that upset over getting booted in a long time. Will it affect her vote? I doubt it. Of course, she has mostly herself to blame. She was too big of a dolt to realize she didn't want to win the RC. For what? To spend more time with her cousin? Whuh? And obviously the rest of her tribe was seeing something that she was missing out on, too stuck in her own world. DUHHH... >
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-12, 11:19 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Seize the day! One of the most totally total absolutely absolute blindsides in Survivor history.1. Sabrina (5). Kat's big mistake was not sharing reward with Sabrina, instead she chose to share with two (not one, two) of her girlfriends who had gone on the previous reward. Whether she knew it or not, Sabrina saved herself spearheading the Kat blindside, put herself in control of the game. Can she maintain control is another question, but the final couple of episodes could be quite a bumpy ride. 2. Kim (1). Got outnumbered this time and wisely chose to ride with the majority. But she didn't get her wish, Sabrina wasn't first. Impressive IC win, though. 3. Greg "Tarzan" (6). Shouldn't still be here, they should have finished him off this time, but the power players got ahead of themselves aiming at each other. Not a good player but made the most of it when dealt the sympathy card at family visit. 4. Chelsea (2). The waffling this time might have led to some funny stuff if she wasn't letting Kim make her decisions for her. 5. Christina (4). Dealt the best sympathy card on family visit in Survivor history, made very little of it. 6. Alicia (7). I alternately laugh and cringe every time she opens her mouth. If she had any chance of actually winning this thing she would have blown it by turning on her Airhead buddy Kat. Sabrina, who is a threat still to win the whole thing, was right in the crosshairs, instead of Tarzan who should have been, and then Alicia flips on her buddy Kat. She's got the kill instinct and no discipline. Good-bye, Kat (3). While there are no really unrisky decisions about who to take on family reward, taking two people who had been on the previous reward while sending Sabrina back to camp empty-handed and looking to strategize was a really bad idea.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-12, 11:37 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-07-12 AT 11:38 PM (EST)I don't get what the competition is, to me it was Christina's father had a genuinely sympathetic back story, moreso than Tarzan. She did little with it, as I said. Most loved one visit back stories are, what, oh I haven't seen him/her since I left to play Survivor, I miss him/her so much, boo hoo hoo. Fabio had a more sympathetic back story than the norm, he didn't get to be with his mom all that much since they lived half a continent apart, and he played that card reasonably well (though with telephones and e-mail they could normally keep in contact as much as they wanted, this nonsense is usually OTT). Calamity Jane had the dead old dog. Jenna L. did get a good sympathy card to play with the missing vid, but it wasn't at the loved ones visit which was a surprise part of Sean's yacht reward in S1.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-12, 07:33 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
It's your best in history comment that made me react. Only that. Had you said a great sympathy story and I would have agreed. Best ever? Nope.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-12, 01:35 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Thank you. Gervase got an excellent sympathy card when his son was born, he still had to beat Hatch to win the phone home, wasn't in the game long afterwards.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-12, 05:57 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-12 AT 06:03 PM (EST)In a way, michel kind of makes your point for you: that Christina got the least out of the best opportunity for sympathy. JFP didn't have a sympathetic story. He created one. It got him what he wanted, which was basically to be a famous Survivor villain. Props. Taj had a somewhat sympathetic story that she got the most out of. It helped that she was well-liked and had a forceful personality. Chris had a likable GF not a sympathetic story. I don't think that had anything to do with it anyway. Eliza was always in the crosshairs, and with the men down to just Chris, why not? Jenna L... boohoo. No comparison. I would actually give props to Christina for not playing for more sympathy. It just isn't the way she's built. Really, the only reason she didn't get any advantage out of it was because Kat won. If anyone except Kat or Alicia wins that challenge, she likely goes on reward.
>
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-12, 09:40 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Jon's "dead grandmother" was a pre-planned strategy to give him a boost in the game, a sympathetic edge he could play to get further and further down the road. He had other things he had to do as well, of course, but in the end he didn't make it to FTC and couldn't win.Taken simply as a sympathy card at loved ones visit, regardless of the fact that it was a fabrication, it worked to the extent that the others, except Sandra, wound up allowing him to win. Is it a better sympathy card than Christina's dad's actual back story? I don't think so, you will probably disagree. But if Jon's grandmother was actually dead nothing would alter that, the more information he wanted wouldn't change if he had to wait to get it, et cetera and so on, he's just got a buddy to grieve with. Christina, on the other hand, had her dad right there next to her, if she'd tugged harder on the it would mean so much for her to be able to share this once in a lifetime reward time with him she doesn't even have to win, anyone who doesn't share the reward with her is heartless. Considering her poor position in the tribe perhaps she was better off not going full press on the sympathy card, but she's in no position to think she can really win the game so she might as well have played it for all it was worth.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-12, 10:42 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Jon actually got Lil, Darrah and Tijuana to cry. No contest.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-08-12, 11:05 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: S24 One World Ep. 12 Love/Loathe List" |
Knew you wouldn't see reason. 
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-09-12, 00:53 AM (EST)
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26. "Tallies" |
Kim - 6|1.5
Chelsea - 11|2.75
Sabrina - 13|3.25
Christina - 16|4
Greg "Tarzan" - 18|4.5
Alicia - 20|5
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