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"Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 02:03 AM (EST)
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"Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-11 AT 11:38 PM (EST)

As soon as you heard that this was going to be a double dip, you had to know that some predictable Zapping was coming.

As I did last season, I give props to production for at least knowing that as well and getting two boring boots out of the way at once.

1. Coach - We got a dose of old Coach here, and I dug it. We have been needing it. This Coach is a wiser, more real, but less entertaining version of the old Dragonslayer. I enjoyed the tai chi opening and the clenched fist. With the dramatic music behind it, I'm sure there was some big symbolism involved, but I just get a headache if I think about it too much. And FINALLY, a quote from a Caesar, it just wouldn't be a season with Coach without it. Also enjoyed the rhino and serpent analogy. I hope this means Coach is hitting his stride. Someone needs to keep this guy talking.

2. Sophie - Her level-headedness while surrounded by craziness is somewhat reminiscent of Earl Cole, and that is high praise. Albert is the one doing all the talking and will be the target if it comes to that. She is wise enough to not oppose the cult openly. The edit continues to find her, even if there is no move to be made, and she also happens to be right. Now is not the time to rock the boat.

3. Albert- The brains and the face: Albert has all the tools to be a really good player. He is sort of like another Jim except without the ego that ruined Jim's game. This is the second time though that we've seen an idea of his go no where though. Clearly he does not have the power in his tribe. His best bet is to hold tight and hold Coach to his promise of F3.

4. Brandon- Yeah, I'm moving him on up. I found Brandon pretty entertaining this episode. From his banter while stuffing his face, including the high pitched "awesome" for Dawn and the rowdy cheering for Whitney after she won (hilarious), to his devil-may-care fights with Savii at TC. It helps that I think he's right. Savii was pretty cocky when they thought they had the advantage, and I do think their disposal of the less pretty Upolu's would have been equally ruthless if the tables had been turned. He was also dead on in pointing out that Dawn contradicted her own actions when she said she wouldn't have ate. The beauty of this guy is that, like Phillip, he seems to have zero concern for what the jury might think of him. Therefore, you never know what he might say. After being highly annoying the first couple TCs, I'm starting to think that every TC should have one of these guys. Like his uncle, he might be the perfect goat to take to the Finals.

5. Edna - I said I'd drop her if she stayed quiet, and here you go. Plus, what is going on with her forehead? Poor girl. It is quite possible that she never had anything but a short term story.

6. Cochran - His edit definitely dropped after he made his move. He is still one of the key players though. He seems a lot more comfortable as a member of Upolu than he ever was in Savii. He truly has found his home. He seems ticketed for the end. Even though he is the most hated person on the show, I give him an outside chance to pull this off.

7. Dawn - She's a fake, and she was foolish enough to point it out herself by carelessly saying she wouldn't have ate at the challenge. This is the wrong tribe to show even a hint of duplicity to. She is the next boot unless something big happens.

8. Whitney - Her edit has already guaranteed she is going home soon. She waited too long to show even a touch of sensitivity. Anyone can understand her frustration though. Survivor can be a heartless game.

9. Rick - When Cochran had the Dragonslayer frock and the cowboy hat on, there was a quick shot of a bearded guy sitting down by the fire. I was like - "Who the hell is that guy?"

RI-

Keith - Soon to be dismissed.
Ozzy - I dug the defiance at TC. Great fish. Remains a threat.
Jim - Never stopped playing but couldn't recover from over-betting his hand early.

>

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-12-11 1
 RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... Das Mole 11-12-11 2
   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... garyc 11-12-11 3
       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... BrassFan 11-15-11 33
           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-15-11 34
 RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... Belle Book 11-12-11 4
 RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-12-11 5
 RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... Jims02 11-12-11 6
   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-13-11 13
 RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-12-11 7
   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... garyc 11-12-11 8
       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-12-11 9
           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... garyc 11-13-11 10
               RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... iltarion 11-13-11 11
                   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-13-11 12
                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... iltarion 11-13-11 14
                           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-13-11 15
                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... Jims02 11-14-11 16
                           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 17
                               RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-14-11 18
                                   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 19
                                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-14-11 20
                                           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 21
                                               RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-14-11 22
                                                   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 23
                                                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-14-11 24
                                                           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 25
                                                               RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-14-11 26
                                                                   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 27
                                                                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-14-11 28
                                                                           RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-14-11 29
                                                                               RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-15-11 30
                                                                                   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-15-11 32
                                                                               RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... NedraSue 11-15-11 31
                                                                                   RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... iltarion 11-16-11 35
                                                                                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... dabo 11-16-11 36
                                                                                       RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List ... michel 11-16-11 37
 Tallies dabo 11-17-11 38

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 03:21 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Brandon ahead of Edna? That'll be good!
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Das Mole 2364 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 03:42 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
1. Sophie - Seems to have a brain.
2. Albert - Also seems to have a brain.
3. Coach - Would be #1 because he's the cult-master but I hate him, sooo
4. Cochran - Also hate this d-bag but I can kind of identify with him.
5. Whitney - Useless.
6. Edna - More useless.
7. Rick - Even more useless.
8. Dawn - Overemotional + even more useless yet.
9. Brandon - Complete idiot + overemotional + most useless of all.

RI -

Ozzy - Prick.
Keith - Scary lips + hair.
Jim - Mega-prick.

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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 09:00 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-11 AT 03:25 PM (EST)

1) Coach: Because he's played better than anyone else so far. Even if its his third time, did anyone think he was capable of keeping it together long enough and well enough to be in control of the game after merge. Course there is still time to lose it but he looks very good now. Bonus points for his inspirational quote, apparently falsely attributed to Marcus Aurelius. Fun Coach and Effective Coach in one season.

2) Sophie: Seems smart enough to participate in a move, if there is one, against the Coach/Brandon/Edna/Cochran/Rick alliance.

3) Albert: He had no reason to go along with Jim's plan as it would likely have left him part of a minority in a majority Savaii alliance (especially with the good chance that one of the three Savaii on RI will be the returning player.)

Hard to know what to say about Whitney, Rick and Edna. The last two might as well be invisible for all we've seen and heard of them.

7) Brandon: As he's in the controlling alliance, you would think he'd know enough not to pick fights with Savii who could be on the jury. Guess not.

8) Cochran: Guess he could go to end as who would vote for him at final TC? Still think his flipping was a mistake made out of weakness rather than calculation.

9) Dawn: Acting was worse than Ozzy's. Her apologizing to Upolu was grating.

Ozzy: Read Whitney said the Dawn and Whitney votes for Ozzy were because he went around suggesting one of them be voted off instead of him. If so, so much for Ozzy as strong player for his tribe. Did like his defiance. Don't see how he has any shot of winning.

Jim: Credit for continuing to try to stay in the game, though his TC speech about playing with honor and integrity, and offer to give Ozzy the idol, sounded bad when he realized it wouldn't save either of them and so backed off it

Keith: Nothing to say.

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BrassFan 322 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-11, 09:35 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
>Jim: Credit for continuing to
>try to stay in the
>game, though his TC speech
>about playing with honor and
>integrity, and offer to give
>Ozzy the idol, sounded bad
>when he realized it wouldn't
>save either of them and
>so backed off it

Picture perfect example of Jim's problems, and the reason he can't win this game.

He's got a great plan. Walk into tribal wearing the immunity necklace. Right before the vote, make a speech about Cochrane, and give the immunity necklace to Ozzy. The four Savaii vote Cochrane, hopefully, the 6 Upolo split their vote somehow and Cochrane is gone.

Then, he totally messes the plan up by making the announcement that he's going to do it, and allowing Coach to basically tell him (and the rest of the Upolo) that if he does it, they'll just vote him out.

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-11, 11:26 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
It actually wasn't a great plan, it was a desperate plan. Jim didn't give up, he kept trying to shake things up as long as he was in the game, but his second plan to try to bump Edna was the better plan if only because he tried to get it set up before TC. The boot is usually decided before Tribal begins, so transferring his immunity to Ozzy would have altered the boot, but talking Upolu into voting out Cochran was never going to work no matter what Jim said.
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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 10:50 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Here are my rankings:

1. Coach -- still in control of his tribe, and he has Brandon and Edna in his pocket. Great job.

2. Sophie -- the editing favors her over Albert, so she's most likely to win between the two of them.

3. Albert -- smart move in rejecting Jim's plan. It would have done you no good anyway.

4. Edna -- I still like you but you haven't shown much of any strategizing of your own.

5. Brandon -- picking fights with the Savaii isn't wise, but I'm glad you defended Cochran.

6. Cochran -- maybe flipping was partly due to weakness but Upolu has made you feel more welcome than Savaii ever did.

7. Dawn -- it's a good idea to be nice but Albert and Sophie are onto you, as is Brandon. This is not good for you.

8. Rick -- who?

9. Whitney -- who as well?

On Redemption Island:

Keith -- the most likeable of the group by default.

Jim -- nice try in attempting to turn the tide but you either should have given the necklace to Ozzy or just not made the effort at all.

Ozzy -- if Dawn and Whitney turned against you because you offered them up, you are a real idiot.


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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 11:10 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
01. Cochran. Guy handled himself well dealing with Ozzy, Whitney, and hissy fit Jim (well, not having to deal in that case), and provided the only real entertainment this week donning Coach drag. Well positioned to be the swing vote should Upolu solidarity crumble. Which it will, but when?

02. Coach. Kept control quite well this time, and I lvoed how he shut down M'Man Jim! at the first TC. Playing a very solid game right now from the top dog position, good Ozzy moment even.

03. Dawn. The Stormin' Mormon! Well, not stormin' in this case, kept focussed and well centered and wasn't shown getting on Cochran's case after the Keith boot. Trying to keep her head in the game while also being genuine this is who I am Dawn, and handled Brandon well at Tribal. Yes, she did straddle the fence, but no, she did not contradict herself, and in her own subtle way put Brandon in his place.

04. Sophie. Still waters run deep. Not much from her this episode, but what little there was spoke volumes. Has a good position in the game with buddy Albert, knows they might have to make their move at some point, keeping her head in the game.

05. Albert. Wheels spinning, head in the game, weighing the options, good for him. Coach doesn't have the Murlonio Kool-AidKids like Rob had last season.

06. Whitney. Hey, she's a real person, who knew? But she cried so she gets a bump.

07. Edna. Pretty much vanished this episode, again, though the camera still likes her. And so do I, but darnit she has no story even though she was a boot target, for Jim at least. Coz she's smart.

08. Invisible Rick. Believe it or not, there actually is still a Rick in the game. There was even a national emergency alert test of the system this week to remind us there is a Rick.

09. Bulldog Brandon. Can't help himself can he. It's instinctive, has to have his facetime, stick his nose in. Like his uncle, he understands nothing about jury management, he's just got to BS his way into being the center of attention and looking like all that getting facetime. Idiot.

Redemption Island.

Jim. M'Man Jim! Give him his due, he kept on trying to play the game no matter what. And it was decent of him to acknowledge that he reacted immaturely to Cochran's betrayal.

Keith. Winner of the More Invisible Than Rick Award.

Ozzy. Hey, his plan worked, they all fell for it! Bridge For Sale! BUAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 03:54 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
1. Sophie - I love me some Sophie confessionals. She has a good head on her shoulders and seems to be involved when strategy sessions come up. The producers seem to like her too, regularly throwing her confessionals even when she's not causing drama (in contrast to someone truly invisible like Rick).

2. Coach - Another solid episode for him. He's kind of riding the high from last week's good showing.

3. Dawn - I like her attitude. I'm not sure I completely buy that she really feels like it's one tribe (it might be gamesmanship), but either way, it's the right way to go. She might have oversold it a little in the IC (which aroused Albert's attention), but she made it through the episode.

4. Albert - Okay, I guess. Showed some nice observation skills, with the whole Dawn thing. The only thing that bugs me with him is that he's the kind of person in the game that should need floaters like Dawn (since Coach has Edna), so he should have instead seen her as an opportunity. Next week's previews suggest that he may come to this conclusion, thouhg.

5. Cochran - The guy still gets on my nerves, but he's completely right about his flip. He doesn't owe the Savaiis anything. Being given 6th place with them isn't much of a gift, and I would argue it's Savaii's fault for not giving him a deal that would make him stick around.

6. Edna - Quiet episode. She made the merge, so it seems obvious she gets to slide to the Final 3 or so. Not surprising she's falling into the background during the Pagonging.

7. Rick - Who?

8. Whitney - Oh Whitney, People magazine articles haven't been good to you lately, huh?

9. Brandon - Still can't stand him. I thought he was more tolerable lately, until he went into that horrible TC speech about how awful the Savaiis would be if they were in charge (so the Upolus don't have to civil). It struck me as the kind of argument that close-minded people make, to just make guesses about theoretical situations to justify one's own bad attitude.


A 2003 IceCat original

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-11, 10:50 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Dawn - I like her attitude. I'm not sure I completely buy that she really feels like it's one tribe (it might be gamesmanship), but either way, it's the right way to go. She might have oversold it a little in the IC (which aroused Albert's attention), but she made it through the episode.

Like her attitude as well. Her "one tribe" gambit worked earlier in the game in Savaii, if it doesn't work in Te Tuna it doesn't make her position worse. Savaii wanted to be one tribe, some (or all) Upolus don't want Te Tuna to be one tribe. She may oversell a bit on the positive likeable friendly genuine Dawn, doesn't mean she's faking it though, just pushing it.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 07:21 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
1- Cochran: He is now part of the family and having fun. He will need to make a second big move to get to the end and show he deserves the votes.

2- Coach: What Jim didn't see is that Coach also has Sophie and Albert under him. He's in control of the whole family but he will have to break it down at some point. He hasn't been able to eliminate people and keep their respect (Re. Christine, Stacey, Mikayla)

3- Dawn: She may have realized a little bit too late that she had to flip. Had she done it at the merge with Cochran, she could have been part of the family instead of being seen as the snake but she does have the additional time she wanted to wiggle in.

4- Sophie: She is shown talking about events but that's all there is to her story. She's the play-by-play commentator, not the player.

5- Brandon: If only he would always eat instead of talk. He is so sure to be right that he doesn't see how poorly he is treating people. He's a train-wreck, making more entertaining than the ones left.

6- Albert: Once more his plan failed. It's getting late.

7- Whitney: She had her best scene of the season but it seems that she enjoyed herself only when she was in power. As soon as she was faced with being in a minority, Survivor became a big waste of time.

8- Edna: She seems to be getting Big Tom's boil on her forehead. Maybe that will give her a story.

9- Rick: He joins Nick, the other Nick and Mick as boring Survivor players.

RI - Ozzy: Nice fish.

Keith: I wonder how he reacted when he heard his new girlfriend saying that the event that brought them together was a big waste of her time. I hope Jeff brings it up at the Reunion.

Jim: His man showed he was a coward when he realized his big idea wasn't well received.


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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 11:10 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Not sure that it matters, but I don't think Coach ever had Christine or Stacey's respect. Don't know if he has the other Upolu's respect either. Think he was valuable to the tribe because he knew useful stuff from having played before and he gained control without anyone else fully realizing it. Kind of snuck up on everyone else. Will be interesting to see if he can keep control.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 11:25 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
He had almost a week to change Christine's impression, nearly 2 with Stacey. If he couldn't get their respect while they were in the game, that's on him. But I am talking about being the driving force behind their eliminations. That made them hate him. It didn't really matter because they aren't on the jury but the next players will get a vote in the end. Jurors tend to be bitter when one person is directly responsible for their eviction and Coach isn't a man of consensus.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-11, 09:52 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
LAST EDITED ON 11-13-11 AT 10:53 AM (EST)

Think Coach's reputation preceded him with both good and bad results for him. Made it less likely other players would respect him; but also less likely they would see him as a serious threat who had to be removed early.

There will be some resentment for sure when they start turning on each other. If Albert & Sophie make a move against Coach first, at least it will give Coach an excuse for voting them out. Not sure what someone like Brandon would do if Coach had him voted out. Not that he should want to.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-11, 09:45 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"

Sophie doesn't need to be a player. She just needs a friendly edit. The winner's list is full of non-players.

Ozzy and Cochran would vote for Coach. Neither Jim nor Keith have mentioned being bitter towards anyone but Cochran.

It will be interesting to see how Upolu fractures, considering we have heard no plan beyond F5. If Coach, Sophie, and Albert are supposed to be F3, then booting Brandon could be a sticky issue for Coach.

I think Edna and Rick would vote for Coach even if he boots them earlier than they are expecting.

Christine? Stacey? Who the hell are they? Everything about them is irrelevant.

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-11, 10:28 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
All the non-players that have won had a personal story though. Sophie is only a narrator and a narrator has never won. All she gets are 15 second confessionals about what Coach is doing, what Brandon is saying or what Albert is thinking. We never get in her head, she just describes what we already saw. Meaningless. And absolutely no one talks about Sophie. Natalie had a much more substantial edit than Sophie.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-11, 11:14 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"

I can buy that. No doubt Natalie had the whole Southern belle story going, and Fabio had the moronic surfer boy thing going.

I would say Jenna might be the closest to a narrator to actually win. She did a fair amount of narrating, and I'm not sure what her personal story might have been.

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-11, 11:31 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
LAST EDITED ON 11-13-11 AT 11:33 PM (EST)

To remind you: We never heard Natalie complaining about the cold and rain while Mick and Jaison whined constantly. When Jaison said they didn't have a shot at turning things around, it was Natalie that told him that the game would change. We saw her bonding with Laura during her stay in Foa Foa and we saw her befriending Dave at the merge. She was the one credited with getting Laura to turn against Erik. Later, we had a confessional from Jaison saying how proud he was of Natalie who wasn't only a Southern belle anymore but a real Survivor.

That's a whole lot more than Sophie has had and I didn't even touch on her relation with Russell, Brett, Ashley or her role in Ben's vote.

Jenna had tons of character development. A lot of it was negative but Jenna's edit was miles ahead of Sophie as far as development is concerned.

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16. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
LAST EDITED ON 11-14-11 AT 00:10 AM (EST)

Well, I don't know. I'd argue we've seen just as much of Sophie so far as a winner like Vecepia, for example.

I know I'm picking the quintessential UTR winner, but it illustrates my point a little. I think when Vecepia won Marquesas, the editors realized that she didn't really create a big story for herself... So the only way they could keep her in the picture was to show her talking to Sean/Rob or Neleh/Paschal/Kathy about strategy and have her comment on other contestants (like her famous Ep1 comment about Sarah).

(I don't remember much of Guatemala, but I don't remember Danni really having much of a personal story until the merge either. Even someone like Aras during Exile Island fell into the background (in favor of the Casaya nonsense) in the middle of the season.)

We could just be looking at a case where Sophie just never creates drama or anything. Y'know, kinda like Rick this season. But, whereas Rick just falls into the scenery every single episode, they like to pepper small scenes of Sophie throughout the episodes. Remember, they established that Sophie/Coach connection really early on when they were speaking Russian (or German?) to each other in Ep1. It's a smaller moment, but so was showing Edna staying behind to help Coach (and then Edna has stuck around).

They didn't have to show Cochran talking voting strategy to Sophie last episode, right before TC. I'm sure Cochran talked about the vote to a lot of people.

We're getting into a definite editing analysis here (although I'm spoiler-free so it doesn't matter), but I'd argue that Sophie one of the few people left who actually still has an okay chance of winning (based on the editing). I wouldn't call her the front-runner or anything, but she's definitely a person to watch.


A 2003 IceCat original

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17. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
The theme of marquesas was that you had to avoid sticking out. Starting with Peter, almost everyone was voted out for doing or saying dumb things. Besides that, it was the season of the nicknames, everyone had one except Vecepia who was only called Vee. So, in a season with that theme, it had to be a UTR winner. This season doesn't have the same themes. And, besides that, I think Vee still had more substance than Sophie, especially in her scenes with Sean, the morning radio show and in the way we saw her moving away from her maraamu team mates and get closer to Rotu.

As for Danni, she was part of the big pre-merge story outside of the returning players: She saw through Gary's lie. We also knew she was the leader of her tribe when she decided to eliminate Blake and when Gary told Amy: "If you have Danni's vote, you have mine". In addition, in every challenge pre-merge, we were reminded that Danni and Stephenie were going at it and Danni always had the advantage. And then there was the whole Birthday party scene where she invited the other tribe for a celebration, still a unique event in 23 seasons. After the merge, we heard Gary telling Rafe that Danni was trustworthy. That new bond would lead to her victory. Sophie has nothing compared to Danni.

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18. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Themes can change, what the editors like mainly are characters. They know what to do with big characters whether they are heroes, villains, goofballs, oddballs, drama queens, gonzos, zealots, bigger than life. Built in stories like a one-legged girl or a Coach Jimmy J. or returning players, ding ding ding.

Quiet, steady, one day at a time types, they're at a loss of what to do.

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19. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
To this, I'll say that they don't know how to edit women. Doesn't mean that Sophie has a good edit. There's nothing there while the others that have won had something at least.
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20. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Well in that case Rick might have some illuminating comments to make on the fact that he's getting a woman's edit.

Sophie's edit has been steady, she keeps her head in the game rather than being out of it the way some people get (various reasons but mainly they don't have a head for the game, they decide they don't like the game and check out, or they showed up with some purpose, proving something or whatever). That, to me, is a good edit.

What is odd is that with her more androgenous body type she could quite easily have been made to fit the tomboy role, and the editors do like to stereotype players. I mean, I don't find her unpleasant to look at, she just isn't of the bikini model/beauty queen camera likes to find her eye-candy sort. They don't know how to edit women? They know how to edit for demographics at any rate. (And why isn't Albert getting more beekcakey attention?)

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21. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"

>Sophie's edit has been steady...
> That, to me, is
>a good edit.

You must like anything then. We know nothing about her. She only gets 15 seconds a week, doesn't say anything personal and isn't featured in challenges at all except last time when she choked and threw up. Winner????? I certainly hope not.

>And why isn't Albert
>getting more beekcakey attention?


Because, like Sophie, I think he won't matter in the end. At least that's what it should mean if you are editing a good story.

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22. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Had to edit out the part about her head being in the game in order to get in your dig so BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ you lose.

I like it when they're actually in the game.

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23. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
I only edited out for brevity but if you need more to understand how poor her edit really is then it'll be my pleasure.

Keeping her head in the game isn't character development. Terry kept his head in the game but his edit was very one-dimensional. (Go back and read Veruca's analysis of Palau and Exile Island to see the difference between Tom and Terry's edits. And Terry still had a great edit compared to Sophie, in both quantity and quality.)

We had a chance to get to know personal traits about every winner. Sometimes, like with Fabio and Bob, the personal development was more important than the strategy. The only personal insight into Sophie we had was when she told us that Coach's prayers felt "Ickey". Was that about her? I think it was more about Coach.

To get back to Danni, we heard people telling us that she was a good player. Stephenie called her awesome. Judd agreed that she was deserving, Gary and Rafe agreed that she was trustworthy. What have we heard about Sophie? Nothing. Her edit is extremely dry, one-dimensional and there has been absolutely no doubts put in her path. Boring...

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24. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
No, you didn't edit for brevity, you edited to completely omit and ignore what I actually said, altering the observation so that it said something else entirely.

Bazinga!

I like it when they are in the game as opposed to when they actually aren't.

Any number of other things factor into edits which are actually immaterial to good or bad, except possibly factoring in face time. As: They prefer the bigger than life over the top characters. As: They prefer aesthetic beauty (as dictated by American television viewing habits weighed against demographic concerns). A team like Sophie and Albert get edited as a team sharing their story. Some teams have a dominant and a submissive, this one does not seem to; which is to say while there isn't a Rob there also isn't an Amber.

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25. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
"No, you didn't edit for brevity, you edited to completely omit and ignore what I actually said, altering the observation so that it said something else entirely."

???? That's a weird statement when your observation was right there above my post for everyone to see. I didn't alter your observation because I don't have the power to edit your post. I simply wanted to point to the paragraph that attracted my eye. Your paragraph was still there, intact.
Bazinga yourself!


As for this new post, I'll end with: There certainly isn't a Rob or an Amber because there is no one!!!! Zero story is hard to share. May as well say that Becky had a good edit. And if they edited for aesthetic beauty then what happened to Kelly S., Kelly Purple and Whitney...

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26. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Yes, you obviously omitted "she keeps her head in the game rather than being out of it the way some people get ..." in order to alter the meaning so that you could reply to the variant of the statement you created. It is a recognized technique called contextomy.

http://mcs.sagepub.com/content/27/4/511.abstract

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27. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
You are simply wrong. And to prove it, my answer went directly to "keeping her head in the game". Hell! I used Terry as example, the ultimate head in the game type of guy. Seems you didn't read my reply.
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28. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
Let's see

<quote.>

>Sophie's edit has been steady...
> That, to me, is
>a good edit.
You must like anything then. We know nothing about her. She only gets 15 seconds a week, doesn't say anything personal and isn't featured in challenges at all except last time when she choked and threw up. Winner????? I certainly hope not.

<end quote.>

Nope, nothing there about Terry, I win!

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29. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
And what do you make of:

Keeping her head in the game isn't character development. Terry kept his head in the game but his edit was very one-dimensional. (Go back and read Veruca's analysis of Palau and Exile Island to see the difference between Tom and Terry's edits. And Terry still had a great edit compared to Sophie, in both quantity and quality.)

You attacked the messenger because you couldn't handle the message. Win? Win what?????????????

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11-15-11, 01:03 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
You quoted me out of context so you could belittle what I consider a good edit while completely ignoring what I really said, so I decided to have some fun with it. Busted you, m'man, unfair tactic. All in fun, though, just to let off steam. You should see what's gone down in the Gufu thread.

Anyway, I don't use "good edit" as code for "winning edit," when I say a good edit I mean a good edit. We may have different ideas about what constitutes good, so be it. Sophie and Albert are a team in the game, paired up, which is a good thing, a strong thing in the game; but rather than following a hero-sidekick dynamic they are equal partners. One is not preferable to the other in game terms, but the hero-sidekick dynamic edits differently than the partners dynamic. Whenever you see Albert or Sophie you may as well see that both of them are there, even when they're apart they're a pair.

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32. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
First, I didn't ignore what you had said because I did mention her 15 seconds of airtime each week which serves to show she is thinking of the game.

I'll tell you why I don't like her edit: It has nothing to do with her even if she's completely humorless which is kind of important. If she does go on to win, then the theme of the season becomes: "Don't ever, ever step up." When Semhar stepped up and failed, we assumed that stepping up would be a theme of the season but you had to do it at the right moment. Sophie's head may be in the game but she isn't doing a thing, certainly not stepping up.

I'll check out the gufu thread.

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31. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
I haven't posted on this list before...but I'm kind of being really disinterested in this season. In the past years with Russell, I knew he wouldn't win and I'm pretty sure there is no way that Brandon can win either...but he just is a turn off. Even more so than Russell. Russell was just mean and Brandon is just plain slimy.

I think I am more disappointed in the coverage of Whitney...her being a country music artist, I had really high hopes of learning more about her and all, and apparently her confessionals just didn't get the edit. Not sure why that would be be.

I like Ozzy over Coach. I don't like how Coach waves at everyone when they leave. He waits until they turn their back from him then he waves...or they are replaying the same wave...?

I guess, my love/hate is going to be this season...really sad. My favorite show on tv...and now I have to have high hopes for next season.


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35. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
LAST EDITED ON 11-16-11 AT 01:30 AM (EST)

michel and dabo, return to your corners.

I would have to agree with michel though that Sophie has no personal story and that we have never seen a winner without one. Sandra in H v. V MIGHT be the exception to that, but since she was a returning winner, she kind of had a story built in.

I will also say that people's edit, and the method behind the madness, CAN change. Therefore, could Sophie gain a personal story during the family visit? Could we be seeing new ground here? Possible. Without spoilers, we can't know.

The players with a story are Coach, Ozzy, Cochran, Dawn and Brandon. I would bet $1 million that the winner comes out of that group, as odd as that group might be.

Sophie's role so far has been as the "conscientious objector."

Lastly, that was the only time that we've seen Coach "wave" as far as I have noticed. Also, the camera didn't show what Coach was waving at. It might actually have been a wave to Jeff.

>

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36. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
it's cool it's cool
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37. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.9- Like Lambs to the Slaughter"
"I would have to agree with michel"

It seems I win!

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38. "Tallies"
LAST EDITED ON 11-17-11 AT 11:18 AM (EST)

1. Coach -- 12: 1.714
2. Sophie -- 16: 2.285
3. Albert -- 26: 3.714
4. Cochran -- 31: 4.426
5. Dawn -- 40: 5.714
6. Edna -- 42: 6
7. Whitney -- 47: 6.714
8. Brandon -- 48: 6.857
9. Rick -- 53: 7.571

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