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"Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown"
iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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11-05-11, 07:44 PM (EST)
 
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"Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-11 AT 00:36 AM (EST)With the merge equaling a 6 on 6 clash, we knew we'd have some fireworks. This episode did not disappoint and was the strongest of the season so far, and that was with some poor editing, which I felt concentrated too long on the forever vacillating Cochran and the manically bipolar Dawn. Now, does Zapping on the level of last season begin? Or do we get chaos? I think in this case, one is as likely as the other.
1. the COACH - Was the victorious coach in every sense of the word this episode. His tribe not only stuck together, but they exuded shocking confidence throughout a TC that had their fate on the line. Savii has two members with immunity? Who cares? Savii has an HII? Who cares? We won't even play ours. Instead we'll just sit here and smile like a gambler with aces in the hole. Hard to believe they could all be so confident considering it did take a 2nd vote.
The bottom-line is that to the leader goes the credit, and Coach will get miles of it here from me. His group stuck together. He picked the right 6th, who wasn't looking to flip. AND he delivered the speech that turned Cochran from a double to a single agent in one sweet swoop. "Here's the thing... You guys came up with a story. You sent Ozzy to Redemption. You got an idol in your pocket. And knowing Ozzy would win redemption. It was a risk, but you knew he'd win redemption. We will vote six strong... And if all 6 Savii vote together, there's a 1 in 5 chance that you'll be drawing a black rock, and so will I, and that is a bullsh@t way to play the game... I know what it feels like to be superior in one way to people, and they know it, so they find ways that your inferior to cut you down. I know what that feels like. You have the chance to change the game for yourself. (Draws a line in sand in front of him.) Here's a line in the sand. Come across that line." This is sheer brilliance. A great coach knows what buttons to push. Coach showed empathy. He played the inferiority complex card that intellectuals all face to perfection. And he showed Cochran something he had not seen yet in this game, someone who absolutely would not budge. In a way, Cochran always belonged on this tribe of misfits anyway. But Coach couldn't have done a better job welcoming him into the fold. Coach saw instantly what we've all seen through 7 episodes. Cochran is a guy who LONGS to make a difference. Coach merely echoed what Cochran was already thinking, "Here's your chance." 2. Edna - If she has another episode this quiet, I'll drop her again, but the episode had other things to accomplish. She wasn't the only person to not get a word until TC. At least she spoke then, that was better than some. Coach offering Cochran a shelter spot next to Edna or Sophie was one of my favorite lines of the show. Way to leave no card unplayed! Besides the comedy of it, this line confirmed how close Edna has gotten to Coach. 3. Sophie - She was the only Upolu other than Coach to get a confessional. Her approach with Cochran might have also been key. I don't think it was just the fact that she was the only Upolu female left for Coach to mention. I think Cochran likely mentioned something about Sophie to Coach. I loved her comments at TC for their bluntness, but that isn't the way to win potential jurors. 4. Cochran - Whether I agree with his play or not, or I find him slightly annoying or not, I am only going to drop him so far because he is the star of the show. Abraham Lincoln once said the Union would win the war once he found a general who could "face the arithmetic." I have railed before how players are so philosophically opposed to drawing rocks that they ignore the mathematics of their decision. If it goes to rocks, Cochran has a 1 in 7 chance of being sent to RI. I think taking an essentially 14% risk of going home is the right call versus facing the odds of trying to win the game after pissing off your entire tribe. Still, I do love that he made the move though. He might be a target right after the big move, but I doubt he is going anywhere. He is the PERFECT person to take to the end now. 5. Albert - Had a couple onscreen conversations and got to speak at TC. He is in decent shape now and may be looking to deal. He has to know he is the #1 target on his own tribe, when it comes down to that. 6. Brandon - His edit has practically disappeared with Mikayla, but I put him above the Saviis. He did well to reassure Cochran that he would be welcomed into the tribe and protected, and his line to Jim at TC was one of the best moments of the show. Jim called Cochran a coward twice before Brandon said anything. Typical that the smallest guy is the first to defend the bullied. 7. Ozzy - An impressive IC win raises his ranking. He obviously isn't the strongest guy there, and yet, when it comes to clutch ICs, this guy just has the ability to concentrate that is higher than anyone else. His over-the-top RI performance played better for comedy than for drama. Dude, come on. It wasn't his decision to keep Cochran around in the first place. Someone on his tribe could have made some effort to break the tie. Are you that content with rocks? Poor play. 8. Jim - He will keep playing as long as he's around. That's a good thing, but he ultimately made a terrible decision to boot Elyse instead of Cochran. Unlike Coach, he did a poor job of making Cochran feel comfortable, and then he compounded his errors by deciding to give Whitney the HII instead of Cochran. Until Ozzy jumped on the grenade, your entire tribe was very vocal about sending Cochran to RI. He obviously was going to be the most likely person to flip. Give him the HII so there is no danger of picking rocks for him, and he would have stayed with you. No surprise that Jim wouldn't have the problem with going to rocks. As a poker player, he has to ride the mathematical odds all the time. 9. Dawn - Continues to get a big part of the edit and to dominate the other women in challenges, but I knock her greatly for the 180 she made once the immunity necklace got around her neck. Suddenly, all the mistreatment of Cochran, which had her crying in guilt before, didn't mean anything anymore. 10. Rick - Never spoke. Might have had the best reaction to having votes thrown his way of all time. 11. Whitney - Who? When you are an attractive woman and you are this overlooked, then your days must be numbered. Kelly Purple thinks Whitney needs to speak up.
RI -
Keith - Much too willing to go to rocks. The decision to boot Elyse over Cochran was nearly as much about him as about Jim. Did he ever explain why? Then, he apparently still trusts Cochran to draw rocks even after he had berated him over letting Ozzy "fight his battles for him." Foolishness. The Moment We Have All Waited For- Christine - All the jibber-jabber over Christine returning to the game ended up as nothing more than to take the thunder out of Ozzy's big move. I have to feel kind of bad for her though. It stinks to win that many duels only to lose when one win away from getting back into the game. Ouch. >
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-11, 08:31 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
1) Coach: Was going to say that of the four returning players from the last two seasons, he is the only one whose presence did not cause his tribemates to change their games. (Unlike Rob's, who let him take control; Russell's who were so repelled by his presence they threw a challenge to get rid of him, and Ozzy's, who voted out his closes ally to reduce his power.) Not sure that is entirely true (Christine feels they are a bunch of followers looking for a leader) but I do think the outdoors skills he learned in two previous seasons gave them a reason to listen to him while his dubious reputation caused them not to take him too seriously. And he's taken the opportunity to take control of first his tribe, and now the game. For the time being anyway.2) Ozzy: Episode showed Ozzy at both his best and his worst. Won not one, but two IC's. If he lost the first he was gone, and in as foolish looking a manner as possible. He was also completely unrattled at TC when Upolu criticised his plan. Ozzy also worked well with his fellow tribespeople showing the same type of solidarity he showed in Cook Islands. Like then, when he pushed throwing a challenge to remove Billy, he was again willing to take risks. But, his plan was not good. Not only did he take a chance of getting bounced from the game while accomplishing nothing more than the worst that could have happened to Savii if they had made the obvious choice to send Cochran to RI, but Savaii's encouraging, and prodding Cochran to approach Coach about switching sides gave Coach the perfect opportunity to convince Cochran to switch sides. Cochran: Don't know that it was a good move but think it unlikely Cochran had any chance to win regardless of what he did. Other players just don't seem to take him seriously. See him as a pawn to be used for as long as he is useful by any alliance he joins. Jim: Good point that giving the idol to Cochran might have kept him from flipping. But think Savaii thought they had guessed right in assuming Whitney would be the target and a second vote would not be necessary. But they misjudged Cochran. Albert: Appeared to be the first to figure out that Ozzy was acting at the RI challenge. Brandon: His standing up for Cochran seemed a nice thing to do; or a smart one. Not much to say about anyone else except, Dawn: Did she tell her tribe that Cochran was considering flipping? Didn't see any signs of it. If she had, they might have changed their strategy; e.g. giving the II to Keith.
Christine: Deserved better.
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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-11, 08:31 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
Here are my rankings:1. Coach -- very smart move in getting Cochran to flip! As the prime mover, he thus gets the top spot. 2. Edna -- was quiet this episode but the fact that Coach said Cochran could sleep between him & Edna shows that she's loyal. 3. Sophie -- very smart and also being real nice to Cochran. This should help her out if he has to vote for her to win. 4. Brandon(!) -- the main reason why I rank him this high is because of the way he stood up for Cochran. 5. Cochran -- he was more suited for Upolu than for Savaii so I can sure see why he flipped. 6. Albert -- he's definitely safe right now but things might get hairy for him once most of Savaii is gone. Small gap -- 7. Rick -- he's the least important of the Upolu group so he is in last place. 8. Dawn -- I like her the most of the Savaii but I wish she hadn't changed once she got Immunity. Bigger gap -- 9. Whitney -- in ninth place by default. 10. Ozzy -- worst acting in the world at the duel! At least you won Immunity! 11. Jim -- Cowardice no doubt played a role, but if you had made Cochran feel more comfortable, he would have been more willing to take the chance. Of course, if you hadn't tried so hard to get rid of Elyse, Cochran wouldn't have been in the position to flip in the first place! Needing Redemption: Keith -- like Jim and Ozzy, you too should have made Cochran feel more comfortable. Your failure to do so cost you big-time, as did your decision to allow Elyse to go instead of getting out Cochran. Out for good: Christine -- sigh. You really tried hard and came so close, but once Ozzy came you were doomed. 
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-11, 11:19 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
1- Cochran: This is still his story. The whole episode was about his emancipation. 2- Coach: He did a great job to keep his tribe safe and to turn Cochran. 3- Dawn: Cochran's "mom" wanted to see her "son' make it on his own but didn't want to see him leave. Upolu didn't have a mom, their father has a God complex and his favorite son is a loose canon so maybe Dawn can find a role in Te Tuna. 4- Sophie: She still only narrates the story instead of making it her own. She will have to make a move at one point because she can't be part Coach's ideal F3. Her game has been much too passive. 5- Ozzy: This episode was all due to his big move. Too bad he had to open his mouth and waste it. Maybe he should have talked to Christine about the problems in Upolu instead. 6- Brandon: He seems well suited to be a bodyguard. He does know how to bark. 7- Albert: He saw through Ozzy's poor performance. 8- Jim: As a poker player, he is used to playing the odds but he should have used his skills to read Upolu and Cochran. It should have been easy to see they were bluffing about drawing rocks. Then he couls have convince Ozzy to give Cochran the immunity necklace and play the idol himself. Wasted opportunity and he should pay for it. 9- Edna: She feels incorporated in her tribe? How naive. 10- Whitney: She is being bleeped more often than anyone I can remember. It seems her entire vocabulary consists of 4 letter words. I hope she doesn't write her own lyrics. 11- Rick: He doesn't even have 4 letter words. RI - Keith: He kept saying that Cochran needed to step up. Funny, that was exactly what Cochran did with his vote and it cost Keith the game. Good for him. Eliminated - Christine: It never really felt like RI was her island. PS. Te Tuna isn't as bad as Nobag, Murlonio, Chaboga Mogo and Rarotonga but it isn't far behind.
Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-11, 02:14 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
01. Jim. M'man Jim moving back into the top spot for perhaps the last time. Let's face it, his game is now totally blown and it is unlikely he can get a new game going to save himself. But give him his due, he had the stones to gamble on the rock draw when none of the rest of the Savaii would. And I disagree, his big mistake was booting Papa Bear; should have forced a tie that time between Cochran and Elyse or Whitney and broke the CoolKids' grip on Savaii. But hindsight 20/20 and all, can't say I fault him for not having thought of that at the time.02. Dawn. Hey, she really cares and she really tries, and she won II! Unlike Jim she may have time to get something going in Te Tuna to give her a chance, or at least be Rodger to Cochran's Liz. 03. Albert. He saw right through the GreatandFullofitOz, and had some other good moments. 04. Sophie. Albert's smarter more librarian half; as long as these two are clearly teamed up I may as well keep them together on the list. 05. Edna. Pretty much vanished this episode, but that was a crowd this time, weirdest merge episode edit ever. 06. Cochran. Revenge of the Nerd! Hey, he showed them, he sure did! Big move, people are going to be arguing over it for years, historic! Unfortunately, he had to throw Jim and Dawn under the bus with the CoolKids trash. 07. Coach. Smart episode for Ben, though I thought he piled it on a bit much with the empathy for Cochran yeah been there know what it is like to be superior and kept down and all -- It's only because you've been on Survivor before and the whole world knows you're an overblown doofus living in your own fantasy dragonslaying happy place! Someone had to say it. 08. Rick. Say something, say anything, Savaii tried to vote you off for goodness sakes! "Why, I'm right honored y'all think so highly of me, right honored by gum." SAY SOMETHING! 09. Ozzy. And the Razzie goes to... 10. Whitney. Pottymouth. 11. Brandon. Let's not be fooled any of us, this is just a real bully reverting to form taking advantage of the situation to move into a position of presumed dominance over another group of people including his new pet project Cochran. Don't be fooled! Redemption Island. Christine. Well, so long, it was a good run while it lasted. Keith. NYANYANYANYANYAANYAAAAAAA!!!! Couldn't stop putting Cochran in his place at every chance, harp harp harp, all it got him was number one on Cochran's hit list, and yeah he did have it coming to him.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-11, 10:11 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
Jim - "he had the stones to gamble on the rock draw when none of the rest of the Savaii would"... whuh? All of Savii except Cochran proved completely willing to go to rocks. And... "his big mistake was booting Papa Bear; should have forced a tie that time between Cochran and Elyse or Whitney and broke the CoolKids' grip on Savaii." He was part of the CoolKids alliance. Why break it at all? You ride it until F5 and then choose whichever couple you want to take to the end. Dawn - "She cares." About what I have no idea. Coach- actually, I believe Coach was referring to his own younger days. I don't doubt for a moment that he wasn't one of the "cool" kids in high school. Keith - Hahaha... this one is the best of all. You make it sound like it was Cochran's choice to boot Keith, like it was well-deserved revenge or something. The reality is that Cochran played no role in the choice of Keith. Upolu wouldn't even tell Cochran who they were voting for. >
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-11, 11:29 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-11 AT 11:31 PM (EST)All of Savaii and all of Upulo went to TC prepared for the rock draw: does everyone have the stones to go through with it? Well, actually, because Ozzy had II and Dawn had II and Whitney would be covered by HII, those three didn't have to worry at all, they wouldn't have to draw rocks if it came to it. Easy to say let's stand together and draw rocks when you yourself are exempted from drawing rocks. So, 3 Savaii and all 6 Upolu went to TC understanding they prospectively would be drawing rocks. The two people caught in the tie could not participate in the second vote and were also then exempted from the rock draw if the tie couldn't be broken in the second vote, so okay I'll give Keith and Rick a pass, they didn't have to decide at that point, they couldn't decide anything. Jim and the five voting Upolu all had the stones to not change their votes and risk the rock draw. Those six and Cochran were the ones who would have had to draw rocks, the other five wouldn't have. So, Jim was the only Savaii to prove he had the stones to do it. (If you think that's complicated, just try figuring out the part of the Survivor contract covering three-way ties and three-way ties becoming two-way ties.)
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-11, 01:31 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
No, not complicated, that's a good point. Dawn never really did agree to draw rocks, did she? Haha.. by time she agreed with it, she had immunity around her neck. Same with Ozzy. And Whitney knew she was getting the HII. So, really, only Jim and Keith were willing to roll with rocks. Of course, if it goes to rocks, Keith is home free anyway. I think Upolu's confidence at TC showed that they never believed it was going to rocks.
>
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 06:18 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
Survivor isn't a poker tournament though. Jim's used to putting his fate in good odds but, when he loses, there's always another table to play, another casino to hit. Survivor is a one-in-a-lifetime event (unless you are called Morono or RussHole) so leaving it to a rock is dumb. Stones? Yes. In place of brains.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-11, 02:00 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
No guts no glory. Marty held onto his HII when he could have played it to insure himself 3 more days in the game, that gamble paid off and he still had some leverage to bargain with.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-11, 12:08 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
Yes, Marty still ended up on the jury, and yes, that was an odd decision. Point is, though, that that gamble paid off; he was still in the game and in a better position holding onto the HII than he would have been had he played it. Had Jim and Cochran stood together and drawn rocks and it paid off with Savaii taking dominance in the game, they both could have ended up on the jury anyway, we'll never know but so what.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-11, 08:24 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
But, for Cochran, it would have been almost a certainty that he would have been on the jury if Savaii had taken over. Imagine, he would have played spy to Upolu, they would have caught him red-handed and he would have gone back to Savaii. That would have meant that he'd never be able to get a Upolu to trust him again so, at best, he'd be 6th with Savaii and no one there wanting to keep him. Jim, at least, had something to gain. As for Marty, we don't really know if it was a gamble. That's my point. And he wouldn't have had to gamble if he hadn't told Jane he had the idol. He could have been in a better position had he played that idol to get rid of a LaFlore that mattered, Brenda for example. Eliminate Brenda at that time and he has Jud and Kelly as solid allies. He dominates the game.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 01:40 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
I'll give you the last word on this since it has reached the point of what's the point, let's agree to disagree. Oswald acting alone doesn't mean there has never been a conspiracy though. All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-11, 03:54 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
"But something stirs and something tries
and starts to climb towards the light"
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Addi 26 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 01:16 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-10-11 AT 12:16 PM (EST)My thoughts -- in no particular order.... Coach – Smooth move getting Cochran to flip. I wish I could’ve seen more of this master manipulation though. It was ALL YOU Coach. Reeling in the misfits. Go Team! Ozzy – No he won’t be winning an Oscar anytime soon. But he is such a challenge monster and so unbelievably adorable that he will probably always be at the top of my list. I like too how he is trying to think this season. Sometimes it is “stinkin-thinkin” but it’s something.
Cochran - what a weasel! I was feeling Jim when he called him a coward. And besides, what’s worse, being number 6 in your original tribe or being number 7 in a tribe that was formed before you came? I just think it was a dumb move. It might get him a little farther in the game as the GOAT… but I just don’t think he can win it now. He just seems more interested in being “memorable” than in winning.
Also – I do not see that his team was BULLYING him. Yeah they got pissed at him screwing up at challenges… he was horrible at them. They wanted him to leave because he went from being useless in challenges to actually losing challenges single-handedly. But I never saw them be mean to him. I think he used that crap to gain sympathy from the other team. (and apparently from some of the viewers) Jim – Personally I liked that he called MiniCoch a coward. He and Keith both had some distrust for Cochran. They should’ve covered themselves in case the weasel double-crossed. Brandon – Now the psychotic muskrat has a weasel to protect. I am not at all impressed at his “standing up” for Piece-a-Coch. Where was all his Christian charity when he was calling whatsherface the Whore of Babylon…. Gimme a break <eyeroll> Albert – This guy is the one I’m watching. He doesn’t seem to like Coach very much. My guess is he is waiting to make his move against him. There are still too many players… but itsa coming. Dawn – She really screwed up this episode. First, she’s all weepy about Cochran and seems to want to flip with him. Then she changes her mind… right choice, but she should have told her tribe-mates. She saw her tribe was not sure about the Cochster; why not tell them the weasel was up to no good? Sophie -- blah
Edna – blah blah
Rick – blah blah blah
Whitney – blah blah blah blah Redemption duty: Keith – bet you wish you had sent Cochran to RI instead of Ozzy. Christine would’ve flipped quicker than Cochran. Funny thing is that they wanted the merge soooo bad. If there had not been a merge they probably would’ve won the IC and sent one of the other team home… or worst, lost IC and sent Coch-a-doodle-doo to RI where Christine would’ve sent him back to the Ivy League.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-11, 06:14 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Survivor- S23 - Love/Hate List - Ep.8- The Bully Beatdown" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-11 AT 06:14 PM (EST)"Ozzy – ...he is...so unbelievably adorable..." Ozzy adorable? Unbelievable!
"what’s worse, being number 6 in your original tribe or being number 7 in a tribe that was formed before you came?"
"Albert – He doesn’t seem to like Coach very much. My guess is he is waiting to make his move against him. I'd say this answers that.
Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-11, 12:13 PM (EST)
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16. "Tallies" |
01. Coach -- 11: 2.75
02. Sophie -- 14: 3.5
03. Cochran -- 16: 4
04. Edna -- 18: 4.5
05. Albert -- 21: 5.25
06. Dawn -- 22: 5.5
07. Brandon -- 27: 6.75
08. Jim -- 28: 7
09. Ozzy -- 31: 7.75
10. Rick -- 36: 9
11. Whitney -- 40: 10
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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