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"VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?"
PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 07:18 AM (EST)
 
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2. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Sandra Diaz-TwineThe results speak for themselves. Bottom line is to win the game and she has done that twice in two appearances on the show. Can't beat that. For all the naysayers that say she rode coattails, we've seen a lot of coattail riders over the years and few have won. She's done it twice, so that tells me there was a lot more strategy involved in her gameplay than simply riding coattails. She's also one of the few who dared to openly challenge Russhole and survive. For all her biting comments and apparent meanness, she still developed loyalty and friends in a manner that she was able to secure two juries.
2. Parvati Shallow
Has the complete package - ability to strategize, win challenges, build alliances. Able to act like a chameleon - flirted with guys to stay in the game but also built an all-female alliance (which had failed in every season prior) that led to her win. She won one season playing a certain way and made it to the final jury playing a different way.
3. Rob Mariano
Controlled the original All-Stars season. Would have gone much further in the HvH season if it wasn't for Tyson's brain-dead decision to disregard Rob's explicit instructions on whom to vote for - if Tyson had followed, Rob would have come across as looking even more brilliant for his manoevering as Russhole would have been voted out with Parvati being saved by the HII.
Others:
I can't give Russell Hantz a berth in the top three. His gameplay is definitely in the top three, but his social skills drop him considerably -- tallying a total of two votes out of eighteen possible jury votes is not the sign of a great player. The contempt for his gameplay was so evident last night.
Richard Hatch gets consideration for being the original master of alliance-building, but loses points for his performance in All-Stars. Tom Westman was brilliant in Palau and Tina Wesson was almost as brilliant in Australia, but both didn't last long in their All-Star seasons. J.T. was great in his winning season but his dumb move knocked him down quite a bit. I would have liked to see winners such as Brian Heidik, Yul Kwon and Chris Daugherty take part in another season to see how they'd do against other All-Stars in order to get an idea of where they'd rank.
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Snidget 43862 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 09:02 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Sandra. Sure people say there is no reason what-so-ever that she should have won one season, much less two. I say that shows she has a lot more game and knows how to use what she does have. She's sassy and can be abrasive, but still lives with and plays with people in a way they will vote for her. One win can be a fluke or lucky that someone else is just not someone any person can vote for. Twice indicates you got something going on, IMO. 2. Todd. Best jury managment ever, kinda like the anti-RussHell. 3. Parvati. As much as I hate to put her here, she does play a damn good game and gets better over time. One of the best "total package" and that she made it to the end even though everyone wanted her out does say a lot about her game.
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byoffer 15808 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 09:23 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Sandra Diaz-Twine. She didn't ride any coattails. IMO riding coattails is what Amber did in the first all-stars (on Rob's coattails). Both times Sandra played she had nobody looking out for her but herself. She made strategic moves along the way to save herself, and was able to do so by not alienating the jury. That is dancing a fine line, and for doing so twice she gets my vote. (bonus points for burning the hat)2. Parvati Shallow. She is the best marriage of all three aspects of the game, tough in challenges, good strategically, and social. She certainly came into this season with a much larger target on her back than Sandra, and yet found a way to make it to the end. I would still like to hear the analysis from each of the jury voters as to why they picked Sandra over Parvati. 3. Richard Hatch. Sure, he got bamboozled in All-Stars, and couldn't even get onto this season. I doubt he would ever do well again anyway because of his notoriety. But in season 1 he invented the rules for how to play survivor with alliances and bloc voting. He was a master manipulator of others (his nudity was the less malicious precursor of Russell's actions to keep the tribe out-of-comfort). The game has changed with HIIs and such, but Richard's game-play is still the prototype for winning.
Honourable mentions:
- Rob Mariano. I hated him in his first season for sabotaging his tribe, but since then he has shown serious smarts in the game.
- Amanda Kimmel. Three very long runs in this game don't come by accident.
- Tom Westman. Despite going out early this season, his first season was very close to the perfect season (IMO the highest physical and social game, and though strategy wasn't needed too much he did well in that).
 
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BOYmeetsREALITY 308 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 10:33 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I'm not really sure how this can be debated.Sandra is the ONLY player to win more than once. Until somebody wins 3 times, I guess that makes Her - by definition - the Greatest Survivor to date.
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 10:43 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
First, I had to look up the list of all the winners:Aras Baskauskas
Danni Boatwright
Earl Cole
Robert Crowley
Chris Daugherty
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Richard Hatch
Brian Heidik
Todd Herzog
Yul Kwon
Amber Mariano
Jenna Morasca
Parvati Shallow
James Thomas, Jr.
Vecepia Towery
Tina Wesson
Tom Westman
Natalie White
Ethan Zohn Looking over that list, there are certain people I don't even remember, or don't want to remember. However, the names that srping out for me are Earl Cole, Richard Hatch, Robert (Bob) Crowley, Chris Daugherty, Sandra, Todd Herzog, Yul Kwon, Parvati, Tom Westman and Ethan Zohn. Richard (Dicque for you old-timers), Earl, and Todd were simply supreme alliance commanders. I believe in each of their cases they got themselves and one of their weaker alliance members to the jury trial without having to win a lot of challenges. I think Earl had the least to work with in terms of alliance partners, so he gets my nod in this group. Yul, Parvati, Tom and Ethan were good at working alliances, but they had pretty strong alliance members to help them. However, each of these four also won challenges. I guess I would have to give Parvati the nod here. Sandra, Bob the professor, and Chris Daugherty each had to scramble to keep alive. They either won challenges when they absolutely had to (Bob and Chris) or/and they did just enough manipulation to get the heat off of them. Since Sandra had to do this twice, she would get the nod here. 1. Sandra (winning twice does mean something... ask the Florida Marlins).
2. Parvati/Chris Daugherty tie (doesn't anyone remember Chris having to outlast the Amy allliance of, what, six women? Yes, yes, Scout this and Scout that - Chris had a target on his back for a long time and he still won, Scout didn't).
3. Earl Cole (how the hell you can win with Cassandra and Dreamz as alliance members still boggles my mind).
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Starshine 4934 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 11:13 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Mr Hatch - Basically created the game that we know now, yes he failed during #####, however he was the first.2. Pervarti - Stunning social game, the player who has spent the most days surviving, if she hadn't been so close to the troll I think she would have won this one too. 3. Sandra - Hate her play generally, however she has won the title twice.  Sunning with the Cap'n
Just another Sleeperbloke
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 01:47 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I have a few questions before answering this:
- Does the greatest ever even exist?
- Don't you think that seasons where players know each other are completely different than the normal format of "strangers having to come together to survive"? That being said, we can use the result of repeat players to see what works and what doesn't. Along the way, I'll try to show why, even if her results are impressive, Sandra isn't the greatest ever but rather luckier than most. - Big moves are rarely rewarded. The best strategy is to play it low-key. I've often said that you can't win the game if you really play it meaning it's better to let the game play itself out and adapt rather than make risky moves. - You must integrate into a group immediately but not make enemies of those that aren't in your group because things can change suddenly. Sandra has a real weakness here. - You must be useful to your team, both in challenges and around camp, to make it to the merge but you can't stand out too much or you'll be a target. Needing to win immunities isn't ideal. Both Tom and Sandra, for obvious different reasons, have problems here. - You must understand your fellow castaways. Know which ones can help you, which ones can hurt you, which ones should be on the jury, how to get them there and which ones you can beat in the end. Sandra again has a problem here because she wanted to get rid of the players she could beat: Fairplay, Lill, Parvati and Hantz were all her targets. Luckily, she failed at getting them voted out. Let Sandra succeed and wind up in the F3 with Amanda and Candice; we'd see Amanda win. Which winners fit best here? I'd say Tina, Brian, Tom, Danni, Yul, Earl, Todd, Parvati and JT have to be considered as the top winners of their particular seasons. Considering that Brian, Tom and Yul would always have problems with tribal switches and would need the numbers (or the most powerful HII ever) after the merge, I'd say that the players who have the best profile for the game of Survivor are: 1- Parvati Shallow: I'll put her first only so that I have a vote that actually counts!! I think that, above all else, being the first target in her returning seasons because those who knew her feared her, shows her abilities better than anything else. 2 - Danni Boatwright: She was in the center of a few alliances and she adapted quickly to a difficult situation, knowing how to be both a leader pre-merge and a follower after it. 3- Earl Cole: He had so many alliances that it didn't matter if he kept losing one ally after another, one challenge after another. The man knew how to listen, judge his competition and build his game around it.
4 - Todd Herzog: Everyone wanted to be in an alliance with him. He kept his eyes on the end goal even if others couldn't understand where he was headed and, in the end, he explained it all perfectly.
If you ever find yourself playing the game for real, follow their examples, not Sandra's and certainly not Hantz's!!!!
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 02:49 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-17-10 AT 02:58 PM (EST)Opinions will vary, and again, we will never know the true answer to this. Yeah, Sandra won twice, but how about all the winners like Brian, Yul, Danni, Chris and Earl that never got to play a second time? Maybe one of them could duplicate the feat. 1. Parvati Shallow- Proved the all around game that was the only thing that had kept her from the top before. She got the vote from the people that were with her the longest (Coach and Jeri, minus Courtney). She underestimated the angst the Heroes would eventually have towards Russell and anyone associated with him, but so did many of us who saw him play once already. I agree with the consensus of the Villians; she was the most dangerous player in the game. 2. Rob Mariano- Yeah, 3 tries and he has never won, but his wife won and she wouldn't have without him. Regardless, I'm not talking about the 23 year old who played in the Marquesas. I'm talking about B-Rob now. He is completely dominant in team challenges especially, and his strategic and social game have improved tremendously. Even though he should have been the biggest target in the game, other than Tom W, he almost immediately became the de facto leader of the Villians, had them dominating, and forged the majority alliance in the tribe. Only the not-so-hidden immunity idol, Tyson's idiocy, and no one knowing Russell's game, kept him from what I think would have been a second consecutive trip to the Finals. Plus, dude made fire by rubbing sticks together! 3. Sandra DT- HAVE to put her here. 2 wins is 2 wins. Also appeared to be a much stronger player this time around. Was the epitome of UTR in PI. This season played a more aggressive game with some UTR thrown in when she needed it. However, if she doesn't aggressively go after Russell, which took some guts, she would NOT have won.
Others in the conversation-
Tom Westman- This time around, I believe, Tom showed more of his strong strategic game. Too bad much of his physical game had left him. He was in essentially the exact same situation as Parvati- biggest target, in an alliance of 3 against 6- but didn't have a Jeri and Coach on his team to flip and save him. Candice maybe could have been persuaded to join him, but once JT swore a second time to Amanda, it was over for him. Brian H- Still greatest single season always in control perfect execution of a plan ever. Was it a fluke? Was it due to terrible competition? We will never know. Yul- Perhaps the smartest person to ever play Survivor, likable, and physically capable as well. We also will never know if he owes his title to the idol, to Jonathan's whims, or if he could do it again if given another try. Amanda- Deserves her props though Parvati and Sandra have taken the "greatest woman to ever play" title from her. She has played the 2nd most days: two FTCs and a jury. Strong in all phases of the game. Admitted to making too many strategical errors this time around. Loved her attitude at Ponderosa, but that should be no surprise. I love her attitude pretty much anywhere.
Aside:
I think Russell, Brian, and Hatch should form a Survivor bowling team. They can be the Survivor Sociopaths. >
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 06:24 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Hard to tell how winner's who only played once (Yul, Brian, Todd, Danni ,etc. ) would do a second time? Does the fact they only played once make them a lesser player than Sandra?
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Molaholic 8451 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 03:33 PM (EST)
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12. "Absotively the Greatest ever" |
must be the entire Hantz family. Afterall, they've had to endure his constant diatribe for years and yet appeared to be reasonably functional. (Of course, I could be wrong -- those folks could very well have been stand-ins, while the real family remained someplace under professional care...)
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KuwabaraTheMan 47 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 04:12 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-17-10 AT 04:17 PM (EST)Sandra certainly has to be up there, but I'm not sure if she's the best ever. She's definitely one of the best, though. Some folks have never gotten a second shot, though. For my money, I would make a list something like this: 1. Todd: Still one of the best masterminds to play the game, and easily the best ever at playing the Jury. He wrote the book on how to talk during FTC, a book Russell might want to check out from his library. 2. Chris: Probably the most underrated winner of all time. He combined strategic and social play like few others could, backstabbing folks while still managing to keep them all wanting him to win. He also won challenges when he needed to, and managed to defeat what was probably the strongest female alliance ever. 3. Sandra: She's won twice now, and is clearly pretty good at the game. She manages to always escape the vote while not really actually being under the radar. She always seems to have a good read on people, and the fact that she's only had a single vote against her that actually counted in two seasons is very impressive. And to throw in a fourth person... 4. Yul: Yes, he had the idol. Yes, it was more powerful in his season than in any other. Still, he used it magnificently and managed to completely take control of the game after the merge. He was a great strategic player and also managed to defeat one of the most dominant challenge performers ever in the vote, which is no easy task. If we look at non-winners, I think Boston Rob and Cirie are probably the two best to never win the game. Parvati gets credit for being a strong player, but I dock her points for the fact that her one victory was basically a fluke due to the Final 3 being changed to a Final 2. Earl was great, but he benefited from having one of the biggest fall men of all time in Dreamz, and being saved from having to face Yau Man at the Final 3.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 04:47 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I liked Chris, I really did but I think he was very lucky to have been on a season divided by gender. The Flab 5 alliance was made because the guys knew they didn't need strength to defeat the women. On a regular season, Chris could have been gone first.We've talked often enough about Yul so I'll skip over him to go to Earl: I'm not sure Yau Man would have been a big opponent for Earl in the FTC. We loved and appreciated YM but the cast saw Earl has the leader of the alliance much like they saw JT leading the way over Stephen. Anyway, in a F2, Dreamz and Earl would have both been playing to eliminate YM during the F3 challenge. In Micronesia, the number of days left was a clue that it would be a F2. Anyway, James and Alexis' injuries hurt Parvati as much as they helped her. Her plan was for a F5 with only women and she probably would have chosen to go with Alexis and Natalie to the end. Those injuries made it easier for Erik to win immunity and it made her plans much more difficult to execute. With your reasoning, we could also say that Sandra's latest win was a fluke that it wasn't a F2 because she wasn't winning any type of F3 challenge. And we could add that, without the Outcast twist, she never would have won PI. To quote from Lost: "What happened, happened."
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KuwabaraTheMan 47 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 05:24 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Who can say how Chris would have done in a different season. As you say, what happened is what happened. The strategy he employed early in Vanuatu wouldn't have worked, but I think he still could have won.As far as Earl vs Yau Man goes, I think it would have been close, but I think Yau Man was liked by a lot of people, and would have received a lot of votes. It's obviously all speculation, but I think Yau Man had a real shot at beating Earl. As I recall from Micronesia, they still thought it was a Final 3 when they got rid of Natalie, didn't they? I give Parvati a lot of credit for her strong play in both seasons, but I just don't think she had a prayer against Cirie. She'd make my Top 10 for sure, but I'm just not sure about Top 5. She did go up a lot in my mind this season, with her strong challenge play and how she dealt with being an obvious target.
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Belle Book 3556 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 05:01 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Here are my Top 3:1. Yul Kwon -- he was my favorite winner and I thought he had it all -- outstanding strategic skill, a great social game and a very good physical game. Yeah, Ozzy was stronger than he was in the challenges, but Yul allowed him to be so good (in part). And he really knew how to let others be seen as bigger threats than he was -- ask Jonathan and Ozzy for proof. 2. Sandra Diaz-Twine -- she entered twice and won both times, so that has to count. No, she didn't have much of a physical game and her social game wasn't the greatest, but what she did have was the ability to dodge bullets. She never got a vote against her in Pearl Islands and didn't do so until near the end in Heroes vs. Villains. 3. Todd Herzog -- he was a master strategist and although he wasn't as likeable as Yul he knew how to play the game very well. Honorable mention goes to Parvati Shallow (only because if the Final 3 hadn't been a Final 2 Cirie might've won), Earl Cole (his season was bad) and Tom Westman (I like him but I think the three I chose were better.) 
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 05:21 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Sandra Diaz-Twine - Twice she played the game. Twice she won the game. In 24 Tribal Councils attended, she managed to garner a grand total of one vote against her (I don't count Colby and Rupert's votes because she nullified them.) She beat two awesome players at the end, and she beat Parvati. Plain and simple, she beat Parvati. This puts her ahead of Parvati.2. Tom Westman - He was one bitter juror away from authoring the first Survivor perfect game, a feat later accomplished by J.T. Plus, even though he didn't have a prayer in the Heroes tribe, he stuck it out for as long as he could, which, given how poorly the Heroes managed to work together, wasn't long. 3. Yul Kwon - Could have coasted to F3, but made bold moves and controlled the game when he didn't have to. Even if Aitu made group decisions, he was the face of the alliance, and he got the credit. Plus, like Sandra, he gets extra points for beating an awesome opponent. Homorable Mention: Chris Daugherty - For engineering the greatest comeback in show history. Danni Boatwright - For engineering the second-greatest comeback in show history. Todd Herzog - For out-Hatching Hatch. Parvati Shallow - For winning once and reaching the finals twice. Bob Crowley - For going from being an outcast to winning it all. Also, for being completely awesome. Natalie White - For beating Russell with one big move. I'd include J.T., but his Heroes vs. Villains performance left plenty to be desired. For his Tocantins performance alone, he would earn it.
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smokedog 1885 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 07:11 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Criteria I used to rationalize my decision:- Survivor unofficial rule is Outwit, Outplay, Outlast - therefore in my mind you cannot be in my top 3 if you didn't win, especially if you played multiple times.
- I tend to look at second or third tries with a grain of salt because in the original All Stars, winners were targetted early only because they won before. In later seasons, hero worship (Steph in Guatemala) let them last longer than normal. So this is a tiebreaker for me, but very subjective. Quick answer is 1. Sandra (won twice)
2. Yul (won the games, won challenges, won when merged in the minority alliance)
3. Brian (dominated his season, eliminated everyone, never was voted against) Rest of the list that I considered
4. Todd (won the game, mastermind, superfan)
5. Earl (dominted Fiji, swept the final vote, no votes against, but did start in the lap of luxury so possibly unfair advantage)
6. Parvati (both times she made it to the end, she was in the majority alliance. And the third time (Cook Islands) she was part of one of the biggest collapses of a majority alliance. 
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-18-10, 06:19 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Earl started in the "Have Not" camp and only was in Moto for the last days before the merge so I'm not sure what unfair advantage you are talking about. Especially since you don't mention the tremendously unfair advantages the Cook Island idol and the surprise F3 gave to Yul.
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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 08:25 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-17-10 AT 08:26 PM (EST)1. Parvati I feel like Parvati is probably the most complete Survivor player ever. She does a great job balancing the social game, managing an alliance, and even being effective in challenges. She has a lot of mental strength and concentration, which has really shown in some of these later ICs this season. She's really demonstrated some amazing gameplay over the seasons. She showed off her ability to micro-manage alliances during Micronesia by bringing in Alexis and Natalie. She showed an uncanny ability to read people this season when she saw straight through Amanda. She even won the critical immunity challenges that other players (for example, Cirie) have lost. She played an (almost) flawless game in Micronesia and, as much as I love Sandra, probably deserved the "Heroes Vs Villains" win too. 2. Sandra Sandra is probably the best Tribal Council speaker ever. I don't mean just the final TCs but the regular ones too. Sandra is basically a straight-talker who doesn't skirt around questions. She often says the thing that people are too afraid to say... Which is probably refreshing for jury voters. She is also the best scrambler of all time. In my opinion, there are two basic extremes in Survivor strategy: Managers and Scramblers. I admire people who can effectively manage an alliance for an entire season (like Tina), but the ability to scramble in times of danger is also essential. A lot of winners have had to do it (Danni and Chris come to mind) but never to the extent Sandra has. I also think Sandra understands human nature really well, and uses psychology as a tool. Her decision to go with the "I tried to warn the Heroes" story was masterful, because 1) it fed on the anti-Russell sentiment, 2) it makes Sandra seem like a Hero, and 3) there was anecdotal support for her story. People like Candice or Rupert had to admit that, hey, Sandra did try to help us out... Even if she did embellish the story a little. 3. Cirie I thought about putting Todd here, but I'm going to throw Cirie a bone here. I think Cirie has a lot in common with Parvati, game-wise, except that Cirie is more of a Game Manager than her. I think Cirie has a great view of the Big Picture of the game and is fantastic at envisioning different scenarios. One of the most interesting (and sophisticated) moves she made was when she pushed to get Courtney out of her first season. If I remember it correctly, Cirie said that she wanted to be in the middle of the alliance and saw Courtney as threat to play the middle road. (Of course, Courtney cozying up to Terry helped that decision too.) Cirie probably should've won Micronesia if it weren't for the Final Two twist (a twist I hated more than any other), which was the one knock I have against Parvati's game that season. The main criticism I have of Cirie is that she can be a physical threat in the team challenges, but she fizzles in the individual ones... And simply cannot win in the clutch. It's very disappointing. 
A 2003 IceCat original
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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 10:39 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Like the Managers and Scramblers. Another scrambler was Jenna. Guess most winners have been one or the other. Although there have been a few who just slipped through to win somehow; Amber (though she probably did some managing along with Rob), Bob Crowley (who was handed the money by Sugar), Vesepia, who must have done something, and Sandra this year, who was never shown to be a target, so really didn't seem to be doing much scrambling.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-18-10, 06:31 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
"I also think Sandra understands human nature really well, and uses psychology as a tool."True, but I think you failed to mention her biggest psychological tool: Her shirts with the mentions: "1/2 my heart is in Afghanistan" and "mom, send help from above". That probably played on the jury's mind every day without having to say a word. As for scramblers, I'd say Sandra was so much under the radar that she didn't have to really scramble. No one considered voting her out because she wasn't seen as a threat. The only time she scrambled was when she got Coach voted out but that fit in so well with Russell's plan to appear as the next victim of a powerful women's alliance, I don't consider it really scrambling. She helped Russell. Two other times she could have been in trouble:
- When Courtney was voted out, we didn't see Sandra doing anything to save herself. It seemed as pure luck that Courtney's number was called instead of hers. - If Danielle hadn't been voted out she would have been the best F3 partner for Russell and Parvati, putting Sandra in great danger. Sandra didn't do anyhting to boot Danielle, she actually voted to keep her.
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djandy 1711 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 11:03 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1.) Tom Westman
2.) Yul Kwon
3.) Todd Herzog
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Das Mole 2364 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-10, 11:53 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
After a two-year disappearance...gonna voice my opinion.1. Sandra Diaz-Twine - Perhapssss I'm biased because she's my all-time favorite contestant, however, there are many things that put her at the top of my list. She's played twice and won both times, not to mention, she's never won an individual challenge--making it to the end with no immunity to protect her (save for the idol which it turns out she didn't need anyway)? Like she said, she's the queen. 2. Parvati Shallow - Despite the fact that I sometimes find her to be really irritating, she is obviously one of, if not the best social player the game has ever seen. She dominated in Micronesia and then managed to stay alive through this last season despite being viewed as a HUGE threat. 3. Dicque Hatch - Is the reason that not only this game is what it is, but essentially ever other reality series that followed as well. If I had to guess I would say that someone else at some point would have come up with the concept of an alliance, however, he did it right from the start. You can't beat that. Except if you're in All-Stars and your name is Colby. Which is funny considering he did absolutely nothing this season. That's all. 
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mysticjay 28 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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05-18-10, 10:20 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Sandra Diaz-Twine is the greatest player. Period. Nobody else has done what she has done - play twice and win twice. In a game, the to goal is to win. Not to play well, or get far. To win. All the strategy in the world doesn't matter if you can't seal the deal. Now if the thread was who is the greatest strategist of all time, that would be a different group of people to discuss. Or the luckiest.
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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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05-18-10, 04:58 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Sandra. She's played twice and won both times. I put her ahead of everyone because (1) she was not the physical threat that others were and (2) she won a second time, having won the game before. We have seen other winners perceived as threats and voted out early. She survived. I also give her credit for the way she handled Russell. She wasn't afraid of him, and she didn't back down from him. And she certainly challenged him.2. Dique. The original winner. He has to be in the top three because without him, Survivor is a very different game. I also give him credit because he did win individual immunity when he needed to, and he purposely and confidentally stepped out of the final challenge. 3. Todd. Again, another physically weaker player, but he had a plan, executed it and won. One of the greatest TC speeches ever, IMO.
Honorable Mention certainly goes to Parvati. She did win, but she's played three times and only won one. She's kind of the Atlanta Braves of Survivor for me.
I will also give Honorable Mention to Bob, Tom, Danni and Yul as former winners. Amanda: I do not consider her to be one of the greatest, even though she has played the most or second most days. A lot of Amanda's repeated performances have been based on IMO her looks. She was in no way a Hero, and I'm not sure what qualified her for this round. She lost handidly to the first jury, and she really learned nothing from that loss and lost again the second time. I cna't recall specifically, but I thought in Fans v. Favorites, no one had seen her gameplay from China, yet the final TC speeches from China and Fans v. Faves both mentioned her "puppy dog" eyes. She also played the second and third game with friends on her tribe, something Sandra did not have the benefit of. Non-Winner Greats I give kudos to are: Rob Mariano, Terry Dietz, and Cirie, all of whom should have won - Terry and Cirie moreso than Rob because they had the social game. I'll also lump Colby in there because I can.  
Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-10, 03:44 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-10 AT 04:04 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 05-19-10 AT 04:03 AM (EST) People say Rob M didn't win, and technically, I guess, he didn't. But Amber and him were a team and have been a team ever since that season. The team won. Amber doesn't even make the merge without him. In a season full of great players, arguably the best collection of players we've ever seen, Rob M completely dominated for the first 18 days. Amanda was booted ahead of Rupert, Colby and Candice because she was "an aggressive strategic and physical player" as described by other players. No player has ever described Sandra as strategic or physical. I'm not sure how a byotch like Natalie being jealous of Amanda and being so pathetic as to rip on Amanda's facial expressions is a knock on Amanda. Maybe Amanda should have pointed out to Natalie her pension for wearing as tight of clothes as possible in the hope that her body distracts guys from noticing her face. Hey, I like Earl Cole. Good guy. But the guy presided over one of the worst tribes in Survivor history. His win in Horsemanure/Fiji required two things from him: his skin color and being more likable than Dreamz and Cassandra. I would like to see him play again before taking much from his win. Lastly, Sandra burning Russell's hat has to be one of the greatest moments in Survivor history. I bet that if she tells the jury she burned it, she gets all 9 votes. >
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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-10, 10:05 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
One of the things that happens all too often in the game of Survivor is that a person will win because of a bitter jury - they win because the jury doesn't want the other person to win. I think Boston Rob is probably the epitome of that. Looking back on that season, he was clearly robbed. Frankly, IMO, Amber was lucky to be cast for All-Stars in the first place, as she did nothing noteworthy in her season. I think she was another one of those filler/eye candy casts.I still don't get the whole "Amanda" thing. I still think she was cast for F v. F, again more for her poplularity with her looks moreso than her gameplay. Taking no credit away from Todd's brilliant speech in China, Amanda was a complete loser. She learned absolutely nothing from that TC, even admitting it in H v. V using that argument as a way of saving herself at one of the Heroes' early TCs. What she did on the reward with the HII clue proved that IMO. Earl. I'm not sure I understand your skin color comment. They were all black - perhaps different shades. I definitely think he was more likeable, especially since Cassandra really did nothing, and Dreamz had that whole car thing. I also thing Earl had one of the easiest seasons in terms of accomodations. I agree with you about Sandra burning Russell's hat. This is what I've alluded to here (I think) when I saw that Sandra took no crap off of Russell. While Parv also put up with him, at least Sandra was willing to dump him, and I don't really think she rode his coattails or used him as a shield. She really did want him gone. Sandra's strategy has always been "anyone but me." It's worked for her both times and she's won both times.
Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie
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chessmaster 25 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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05-20-10, 03:01 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
1. Sandra -
I never thought she got enough credit for winning the first time she played.
a.) Both times she won by large margins, 6-1, and 6-3. Furthermore, the people who voted for Sandra both times generally liked her .. and the votes against her were not "angry" votes. This is VERY rare. The only other winners to avoid pissing off jury members were Earl and J.T. who both swept their seasons.
b.) Sandra actually had a LOT more strategy going on than most viewers realize, if you listen to the exit interviews. While Russell actually got lucky with Tyson's vote, Sandra was well-positioned in many scenarios: Had the vote gone against Rusell rather than Rob, she was in a comfortable final 4 alliance, but planned to get rid of Rob at the merge and replace it with an even stronger cross-tribe alliance, with Candice, Courtney and some other hero. Had Danielle not been booted, she had a final three with Parvati and Danielle. Had Candice not voted out Amanda, Sandra was probably not going to be "6th in the hero's alliance" as most people thought, but Sandra did not really explain the details.
c.) Sandra was one of the best people readers of anybody who has played. She was one of the few who was never duped by Russell and Johnny Fairplay, probably the two most devious players.2. Parvati -
She really is amazing, for many of the reasons already discussed on this board, and she might very well have become a two-time winner if not for Sandra. 3. Earl -
He was never in trouble during his season, he received only 1 stray "throw away" vote during his many trips to tribal council, and was the first person to ever sweep the jury. Some of the runner-ups: Vecepia (very underrated player as well, great at reading people, was first to win from being down in numbers, and masterfully won over the jury in final tribal council by "coming clean") and Todd (brilliant to protect his alliance member James by giving him an idol, among other things) I also have to admit that Chris was fairly good, even though I find him to be an unlikeable villain. He managed to dupe the jury members at the final tribal council, covering up some of his dirty lies. --
Some of the popular winners who I feel are a bit over-rated: - Richard Hatch .. Yes he did "invent" alliances, sort-of, but he had quite a bit of luck and nearly lost due to his poor people skills. e.g. Kelly nearly voted him out in final 4, and had she not changed her vote on the re-vote, he had more prior votes than Susan Hawk, and wouldn't have been final 3. Also he made the jury more bitter against him than necessary. - Yul .. His strategy was really base and inflexible. "Let's align the Asians with the Whites on day 6" without getting to know anybody. Candice, one of his own alliance partners, mutineed out of his alliance, and then he was lucky to have Ozzy (whom he did not align with, and was nearly ready to vote out well before the merge) carry his tribe with amazing immunity challenge performances. He was also protected by an immunity idol back during the two seasons when the power of the idol was too strong .. you could play it after the votes. - Tom Westman .. was not a big fan of him either. He was basically an immunity challenge star. His social game was not that terrific. He basically was in the finals with an extremely unpopular opponent, and even there managed to ##### off a jury member at the final tribal council enough to lose a vote. I think his second time playing, when he actually did have to play a social game, revealed mistakes, i.e., he basically ignored Cirie who wanted to work with him, and had he not been so arrogant, he would have had her votes when he needed it. - Brian Heidik .. IMO he got very lucky. He was terrible with the jury, in a delusional way, winning by only one vote, not understanding why it was so close .. and one of the few winners who would have lost had the jury "seen the show before voting" i.e., he would have lost Helen's vote.
His social game was basically making final two agreements with 3 of his 4 tribemates, who chose not to talk to each other. Plus he benefited a lot by the other tribe self-destructing, i.e., tossing an immunity challenge because they were way up in numbers, not realizing that the merge would not happen until final 8.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-20-10, 06:35 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-20-10 AT 10:07 PM (EST)Very nice analysis, chessmaster. I agree with a lot of your points but I have to question: "Sandra was one of the best people readers of anybody who has played." Minutes before Rupert was going to be snuffed in Pearl Island, she said, in interview: "John and Burton want Rupert gone but I don't see it happening." More to the point, she didn't see how close she came to being voted out at F10 when Amanda said she was pushing hard to get Sandra out while Colby and JT didn't mind seeing jerri or Sandra going. She commented that Parvati didn't need to give her the idol because there was "no way" she was going home. Sandra was lucky that in both her wins, a huge villain was in charge. I don't see her winning a season where a Tom or a Yul is in charge. She would have needed Judd to be in charge in Guatemala to have a chance. The problem is that she doesn't even work to empower those huge villains but tries to get them out instead. Quite ironic! Vee is very underrated but she isn't a top player either. At F4, despite having the power of the necklace, she tried to eliminate the only player she could beat in front of the jury. Good thing production made their biggest GUFU ever and that Pachal was too dumb to change his vote. For Hatch, previous votes didn't count in Borneo. Hatch's brilliance was to make his alliance with people he could manage, that would play along but that he could beat in the end. Lex, for one, didn't understand that last part or Ethan wouldn't have been there. Hatch saw that Stacey was too dangerous to keep and, despite wanting Sean in his alliance at first, he quickly realized Sean wouldn't work out. - "Tom Westman .. His social game was not that terrific." This is wrong. Steph liked him enough that she had an alliance with him before the pick 'em. Ulong, BJ in particular, admired his attitude as much as his strength. Gregg, Ian, Jenn and Katie liked him so much that they stayed great friends. Very few tribes had as many fun adventures as Koror did and Tom led them all. Few winning tribes held it together all the way to the merge. And remember how supportive he was of Janu when she was feeling ill. What more do you want for social skills? Yes, Coby hated him but that has a lot to do with Coby's own problems.
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PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings
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05-20-10, 07:45 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Dude. I know you've got a vendetta against Sandra, but this thread is designed for people to freely express their opinion on who is the greatest Survivor.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-20-10, 10:12 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Am I preventing that? I'm freely replying to freely expressed opinions. Isn't that what a discussion board is all about? And I'll let you know I have absolutely nothing against Sandra. I just don't agree that she is the greatest.
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chessmaster 25 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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05-25-10, 10:52 AM (EST)
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48. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Well you did bring up some good counterpoints.
Actually I think Sandra's biggest oversight was not the ones you mentioned, but in the F4, she did not realize Pavarti wanted her out because she was a threat for jury votes; in her interview she stated because Pavarti and Jerri both came and told her they wanted the other one out, she felt she "didn't need to win the final immunity because she was staying no matter what"Not sure she was that close to going in F10 though .. Amanda was telling Pavarti that she was pushing for Sandra to go, but that was to mislead them. Hard to say what would happen in a game with Sandra and Yul/Tom, but she was playing with Rob in charge, who I think is pretty equivalent, i.e., very strong in challenges, leads tribe, and her plan was to oust him with other weak players, similar to the way Cirie plays. Sandra is a huge fan of the game and has watched every season, so it's not inconceivable that we would have seen something different from her in that scenario. BTW - Tom nearly got overthrown in his own season by a woman's alliance. Katie commented in an insider clips at F7 "we cannot have a woman's alliance because Karen sucks" .. i.e., apparently Jenn, Steph, and Katie were ready to turn on the three guys. But it really depends on the other players, and how influential you are. Katie clashed with Karen early in the game.
==
Very true about Vee, I did think trying to vote out Neleh was the big question-mark in Vee's game.
==
Didn't realize there was no tie-breaker during Hatch's season. However, I would have lost against Rudy in F2, probably could not have even beaten Sue Hawk in an F2 either. ==
In Tom's season, I also think that Gregg seemed a bit irritated with both the finalists, not just Coby. But yeah, I guess overall, his social game in Koror was pretty decent. It was just not so great in Heroes vs. Villains, so perhaps a more accurate statement is that his social game really depends on the crowd and circumstances (i.e., on a tribe that is winning rather than losing) .. vs. somebody like Pavarti / Amanda, who seem to do well in a wider array of situations.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-10, 06:57 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I want to make this clear that I'm only continuing the discussion because it can be fun to debate our points. I wouldn't want to appear to be a Sandra-hater.The problem I see with Sandra's claim that she wanted to cut Rob's throat is that she would have no one to help her if she had gotten rid of Russell and Parvati. Courtney was closer to Tyson than to Sandra. Jerri and Coach were as well. Overthrowing the otherwise unbeatable Rob would have meant giving the game to Tyson. Funny thing about the women's alliance in Palau. As soon as it was brought up, Jenn ran to Gregg while Katie told Ian about it. So no, I don't believe it was only Caryn that sucked! Tom, Ian and Gregg were running the show. Only Jenn was able to play on her own after Gregg was voted out.
BTW, Gregg liked Tom so much that he went to New-York to visit during the season. They were photographed at the St. Patrick's day parade, creating a spoiler for the season: We figured it meant that they didn't hate each other and that Gregg would surely vote for Tom. Rudy was very popular with the viewers but I don't know how the others felt about voting for him. I remember a lot of players complaining that he'd hit them in the head while getting up at night and keeping them awake.
Anyway, Hatch was planning on going to the F2 with Sue and he would have beaten her easily. Sean, Rudy, Gervase and Greg all vote for him. Gervase only voted for Kelly because he hated Sue and her speach. Kelly is tougher to call but she was hurt by Sue. And Sue would have more problems getting Colleen and Jenna's votes than Kelly did, that's for sure.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-20-10, 08:10 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-20-10 AT 08:25 PM (EST)I agree with most of Michel's reply. In addition: Strange how Earl gets so much credit for sweeping the vote while JT gets no mention. And Tom gets knocked for losing one vote from the guy who didn't like him from Day 1. Earl faced the do-nothing Cassandra and one of the least likable players in the history of Survivor in Dreamz. Yul's defeat of the most dominant challenge performer ever was more impressive in my mind. And JT went up against a POPULAR player in Stephen. A sweep against him was FAR more impressive. Frankly, I don't know of any other player in any season that could have done the same. Regardless, the goal of the game is to get the MAJORITY of jury votes, not all of them. Brian had 4 votes in the bag. The sociopath probably didn't even know Ken, Penny or Erin's name. He didn't need them so they were irrelevant. Brian is the only player ever to give us a plan on like Day 12 and then perfectly executed that plan. That is LUCK? Sure. He was lucky Sook Jai self-destructed, but Sook Jai still had a chance to take a majority into the merge. Brian was the one that sunk them in the key IC. That isn't luck. Speaking of luck, Sandra is the quintessential 2nd vote off if she happens to be on the weaker tribe. Fortunately for her, Drake was arguably the strongest tribe ever assembled, and the Villians dominated the Heroes. If a social game is simply being nice to people, then I'll give Vee that. Otherwise, the only social game and strategy that I am aware of involved praying to God and voting with Sean. Yul's strategy was align "the Asians with the whites"? I was unaware of that. I thought he aligned with Becky, then made a deal with Jonathan and Candice to save Becky, which no one seems to give him credit for. Becky then brought in Sundra, who ended up being close friends with Yul and Becky and voted for Yul to win. Earl was the one that formed his alliance on Day 1 without knowing who he was aligning with. Very lucky for him that Cass and Dreamz ended up so unworthy of a vote. Tom was in the Finals with an "extremely unpopular opponent"? Whuh? Katie was extremely unpopular? I've watched Palau twice, and I've never reached that conclusion. Katie was only unpopular IN COMPARISON to Tom, who remains one of the most liked winners ever. Everyone who buys Cirie's claim that she wanted to work with Tom is totally ignoring the fact that Cirie wanted to boot Tom during the very first episode. Even if Tom would have ever aligned with her, Cirie's game is to identify threats and get rid of them. She would have axed Tom as soon as it was expedient to do so.
>
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chessmaster 25 desperate attention whore postings
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05-25-10, 11:15 AM (EST)
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49. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
yep - I did not mention JT, because I am just really not sure where to place him. Although I don't think his mistake deserved the "dumbest" award, prior to his handing the immunity idol to Russell, I would have listed him with the top group. However, I think the real downfall was that Sandra wanted to work with him with a winner's alliance, i.e., Pavarti, J.T., and he just slammed the door on the possibility by targeting Parvati and Sandra in particular. He clearly isn't somebody who has studied all the past seasons. Sandra was willing to work with him, and probably would have saved him, had he been smart enough to admit it was a mistake to hand Russell the idol after it became obvious after the merge.--
Well agree with you at least that Brian is a sociopath, lol. --
About Yul, he definitely did make a race alliance. His problem is that CaoBoi wanted Becky out, and that Jessica was a free agent. They actually reigned those two in before Becky made friends with Sundra, i.e., Sundra actually voted against Becky first trip to tribal council.
The problem I always had with Yul is that he is one of these persons who thinks he is a lot smarter than he is, and has perfected the skill of selling to others that he is a smart with his law school background. His hypocrisy about playing "clean" was what caused a tiff between he and Candice after the merge.
== About Cirie, it is true that she will often target strong players, but this is counterbalanced with her loyalty. Rembember that in her own season, she went out on a limb to protect Aras throughout the entire game. She identifies threats to 'her' .. not necessarily people who are threats to win challenges or jury votes. In fact she started voting people out on the basis that they would be unpopular with the jury, and thuw desirable to take to a final 2. So yeah, Tom did blow it with Cirie, she was an ideal ally for him. But to his credit, he admitted that in the post-show interviews.
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sportsjoe 61 desperate attention whore postings
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05-26-10, 08:18 AM (EST)
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52. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Very good insight by all. But considering many of the moves made over the years, especially the dumb moves, which leads me to believe luck plays a big part in who gets to the end. Just like Tom said at the reunion show.
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sol 219 desperate attention whore postings
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05-26-10, 12:32 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Declaring Sandra the greatest survivor based on the fact that she is the only one to win twice makes sense to me. Add to it the strategy, perhaps often unseen, that she uses must also play a part. But I'm not going to include her in my top 3.That JT did so well in the challenges and social aspect of Tocantins, garnering all the votes at FTC, make him a definite candidate as well. If winning all the votes is a condition, then Earl is a top performer as well. And Earl shifted as needed during his season. But I am going to choose others. Tom did what he needed to do to win his season, although everyone had to know that if he made F2 he would win because of his position in real life. NY firemen at that time were heroes, so he had a natural target on his back at the merge. But Tom doesn't make my top three. My top three didn't need to win Survivor to be called the greatest. 1) Rob Cesternino - I enjoyed how he maneuvered in the Amazon, his only problem was his physical game, which didn't get him into the F2. But had he made it he was a surefire winner. I liked his sense of humor along the way too. 2) Rob Mariano - he dominated physically in S8, and again in S20. His efforts helped his tribe win the physical challenges and the puzzle challenges. His desire could will his tribe to victory. Boston Robs downfall is his lack of social skills, he tries to dominate his own tribe as well - a dictator of sorts. But his passion for Survivor makes it necessary to vote him out early, and I think that means the others have a great deal of respect for the way he plays the game. 3) Richard Hatch - before him there was no template on how to play Survivor, he made the model that has been followed through 20 seasons. If there weren't so many viewers that wanted the fat, naked guy to be voted off then Survivor might have only lasted one season - like Pirate Master. A great villain is what really makes the show worth watching, whether it's Survivor, LOST, WWE, etc., and Hatch was a very watchable villain. Are these the 3 greatest "Survivors" ever? Probably not, but it's my opinion today.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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06-04-10, 05:59 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Interesting choices...almost think the debate on "best Survivor never to win" would be as lively as the one over "best Survivor winner"...but need I remind everyone...in the words of Herm Edwards...you play to win the game!
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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07-05-10, 12:26 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Although I agree that Rob was coasting at F7 until Alex woke him up with that stupid revelation, you are forgetting that Rob was instrumental in getting to that solid position at F7. When they were in Tambaqui, Rob used Rodger's polarizing personality to place himself in the loose alliance of the "guys-that-weren't-with-Rodger". If Jenna gave a lot of info to Dave, he gave her just as much because, when they picked new tribes, all the "guys-that-weren't-with-Rodger" found themselves in Jaburu without Rodger! Rob made a deal with Deena, the one who thought was leading the "cute-girls" alliance. As soon as Jacaré was formed, Rob and the girls worked together to get rid of Rodger and Dave. When told that Deena was targeting Alex, it was Rob that was key in turning the table on Deena. He could have gone with Deena and voted out Alex. The problem he saw was that the women would be up 4-3 and could regroup so he did the right thing. Then he showed his abilities by pulling all the floaters together, giving him the ressources to turn the table on Alex in the very next round, putting himself in charge. Rob isn't the greatest Survivor ever but he isn't a chump either.
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kidflash212 3854 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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07-05-10, 03:56 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I just don't think Rob was as instrumental as he was following along and then talking big to the camera in his confessionals. To me, manipulating people suggests changing the way the would have acted otherwise - I don't think he ever did that.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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07-09-10, 05:35 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I have to agree mostly with Michel here. Rob C was JFP before there was JFP. He was an excellent game player and one of the more entertaining Survivors ever. He basically took confessionals to a level they never were before, and I don't think anyone has been as comical in their post-vote comments. Like many great strategical players since, he was another that was one IC win away from being the Sole Survivor. His strategy with the loyal soldier, Matt, was copied from Brian, so unoriginal, but no one was any better at keeping the majority on his side until JFP. Rob C is/was obviously intimidated by alpha males. The tribal switch gave him the opportunity to jump in with the women, his preferred alliance, and get rid of the alphas. In All-Stars, he was trapped on a tribe with the ultimate alpha in Rob Mariano. Curtains.
>
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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07-11-10, 03:51 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
It's so rare that we agree! Let's savor it for a moment... OK, now back to disagreement! In All-Stars Cesternino was on a tribe of 6 where Mariano had a pre-game alliance with Big Tom and was already dating Amber. There were only Sue and Alicia available and, with Alicia's connection to Amber, there really was nothing Rob C could do. Contrary to what Mariano tried to sell us last season, he proved that Survivor was always about alliances so Cesternino had to go. And please, Rob C was always playing to win which makes him a much better player than JFP who was only playing to make a name for himself until he realized the Outcast Twist gave him goats that he could beat in the end. Also, I think that Rob did a little more with Matt than Brian ever did with his allies. I'm sure you remember the little missions that Rob gave to Matt to relay information to Butch. Brian hoped his allies wouldn't talk to each other and he was lucky they didn't. Rob encouraged them to talk but in secrecy, making them feel like spies which enabled him to control what they would say. That, I'd say, was quite original.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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07-12-10, 01:38 AM (EST)
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63. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
In this case, not sure what we disagree on. Rob C had no chance on Chapera. His thing is to work with the women against the men, and Amber was the only woman who was his type. So, yeah, he was screwed from the get go. JFP himself said he styled his game after Rob. That pretty much makes Rob the better player. Rob let his hormones sort of run his show though. JFP would never had done that. Yes, Rob did more with Matt than Brian ever did with Helen, but it was all just like a game for Rob. It was business for Brian. He would have cut the girls' throats without a second thought and got to the end with Matt. >
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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07-12-10, 08:21 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
I guess it was force of habit! 
I thought you were saying that, no matter the tribal make-up, Mariano would always beat Cesternino and that JFP improved on Rob's game.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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07-12-10, 11:40 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Not yet. I don't think he'll have taken Sandra's victory well. I hope he comes back but who knows?
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BedfordRobbie 22 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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06-04-10, 05:41 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
Chris ---- He had an alliance in place the first few days that protected him when he lost the first challange, after the merge he was able to use the chracks in the fe-male alliance to stay in and finally he is the greatest BS artist in th history of the game. Chris played the jury like a champ. He stabbed Eliza and Julie in the back and made them love it. Yeah he had some luck along the way but he never wasted his chanches.
Chris is numero uno!!!!!!Sandra ----- The lady scrambled her way to victory twice. You may not like the way she played the game but Sandra has 2 mil and I bet she pays her taxes. Tom ----- Tom did what Coach wanted to do, he took another dood player Ian to F3 and then beat him. Tom controlled his game from day one both physically and mentally. he voted people off when he needed to and didn't make anyone but Colby(sic) mad. Todd, Hatch, Earl and Parviti are all worthy of mention but this is a personal judgement call.
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JanetFAN 180 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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06-17-10, 00:33 AM (EST)
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56. "RE: VOTE: Who's the greatest Survivor ever?" |
You know what? I'm just gonna mention my favorite contestants ever- are they the greatest players ever? Nope. But, after hundreds of players I still remember them and that makes them great Survivors in my opinion!1. Marilyn Hershey- loved Mad Dog!! My all time favorite! I want to see her play again sooooo badly!! I loved all of her one on ones. 2. Janet Koth- I loooove me some Janet action! She had so much going against her it's a miracle she made it 6 days lol: got sick, oldest woman, oldest woman on the first all female tribe, granola-gate, and she wasn't one of the "pretty girls" 3. Tina Wesson- I think Tina is an underrated player. She was very likable as a person and as a player. She was fair and played a good game. She is physically competent and might have been a bit shrewd in her playing, but in the end she won and that's what counts.
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