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"One Last Post on S16"
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 03:24 AM (EST)
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"One Last Post on S16"
I have posted already, more than once, that Parvati played the better game and deserved to win. The biggest piece of evidence I sited for this is Cirie's vote. Cirie spent the most time with both of them, especially Amanda, and therefore was in the best position to judge their respective games. Her vote for Parvati told me that she felt Parvati played the better game.
Now, I take that all back. As it turns out, Amanda and Cirie have both admitted since that Cirie told Amanda she was going to vote for Parvati if Amanda didn't take her to the Finals. I don't blame Cirie for this 11th hour attempt at blackmail, considering it was pretty much the only card she had left. But by actually going through with it, she basically allowed bitterness to cast her vote. She voted against Amanda because Amanda "cost her a million dollars."
So, this in no way proves Parvati played a better game. Actually, when you look at it, as much as Parv's social game has been propped, the final vote tally seems to suggest that Amanda played the better social game. Parvati got 2 votes by making friends- Natalie and Alexis. Amanda got basically all 3 of her votes by being friends with Ozzy, James and Erik. Sure, Ozzy was teed at Parvati, but face it, he votes for Amanda whether Parvati betrays him or not. Erik completely voted for Amanda because she became friends with him at the reward. He was never even in an alliance with Amanda, unlike Natalie and Alexis with Parvati. James probably voted just as much against Parvati as for Amanda, but that can also be blamed on Parvati's social game, which obviously James disagreed with. Parvati's social game also irked Eliza to such an extent that she almost voted for Amanda, even though personality-wise, we know Eliza is much more like Parvati than Amanda. When Eliza finally voted for Parvati, it had nothing to do with her social game, but was rather in spite of it. Then, Cirie's vote had nothing to do with the social game, and Jason's, who knows with that guy, but it is doubtful that Parv's personality had anything to do with that since we all know that Parv thought of Jason as a loser.
So, in summary, Amanda's social game or Parvati's lack there of, got her all 3 of her votes; whereas, Parvati's social game got her 2 of her votes while almost costing her 2 of her other votes.
Parvati's win over Amanda wasn't social. It was strategical (voting with Jason to boot out Ozzy, probably winning his vote, and having a good enough FTC to get Eliza's vote) and fortunate (tribal switch giving her the opportunity to align with Natalie and Alexis while winning challenges protected her and not having to vote out Cirie and lose her vote).

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: One Last Post on S16 garcor 05-16-08 1
 RE: One Last Post on S16 citywitch 05-16-08 2
   RE: One Last Post on S16 XXL Survivor 05-16-08 3
       RE: One Last Post on S16 Colonel Zoidberg 05-16-08 4
           RE: One Last Post on S16 michel 05-16-08 5
               RE: One Last Post on S16 citywitch 05-16-08 6
                   RE: One Last Post on S16 michel 05-16-08 7
                   RE: One Last Post on S16 tidefan1987 05-16-08 8
               RE: One Last Post on S16 iltarion 05-16-08 9
                   RE: One Last Post on S16 michel 05-16-08 10
                       RE: One Last Post on S16 iltarion 05-17-08 11
                           RE: One Last Post on S16 Aruba 06-16-08 12

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 07:07 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
The final three all took advantage of opportunities provided them and were ocassionally just lucky. Parvati and Cirie removed Ozzy without Amanda having to take any role in it. Figure if Ozzy made final TC he would most likely have won.
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citywitch 250 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 07:18 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
Parvati's win over Amanda wasn't social. It was strategical (voting with Jason to boot out Ozzy, probably winning his vote, and having a good enough FTC to get Eliza's vote) and fortunate (tribal switch giving her the opportunity to align with Natalie and Alexis while winning challenges protected her and not having to vote out Cirie and lose her vote).

I definately agree with the "fortunate" part. I believe the demographic of the final 10 (with the exception age-wise of Cirie) was completely suited to Parvati's game. If the final 10 had even a few castaways like Yau-man, Jonathan, Earl, Tom, Terry, Lex, etc. she would not have won.

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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 09:43 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
I agree 100% with what is written. However, I don't have a problem with the 3rd place person voting against the person who booted them. Otherwsie the threat is meaningless. Of course it leads some to throw the final three challenge (Hatch, the S2 chef, Matt, maybe some others) but as this is a risk the throwee like the chef found out must take,
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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 10:10 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
See, that's one thing I do have a problem with. It's effectively punishing the final immunity winner and making the final IC a lose-lose situation - either throw the challenge and pray that the winner takes you or win it and cost yourself a vote. I know it doesn't always work like that (Jan, Rob C, Jenna L, and Ian voted for the people who voted them out, but one was a hate vote, another was a spite vote for riding coattails, and the other two seemed more like respect votes) but the numbers don't lie - 13 times, someone has cast the final ouster vote single-handedly, and nine of those people didn't get that person's vote.

The way I would have written Fans vs. Favorites to avoid this would have been to have Cirie not be a voter. She could go to TC and ask a question but would not vote. Or she could go to sequester with the other pre-jury boots; I don't care.

The other possibility? Do what I did when I wrote All-Stars II - the jury votes out the last person. That way, there's no blood on Amanda's hands, and Cirie (or maybe Parvati) would have no one to be bitter with but the jury.


GO RED WINGS!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 01:38 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-08 AT 01:40 PM (EST)

"the jury votes out the last person."

They tried that in Burnett's Pirate Master to terrible results. The mastermind of the season, Jay, got the boot, keeping the doll and the bland, nice guy.

F3 positioning is the key to Survivor and to change it in CI, Fiji and China was a travesty. At least in China they knew it was coming. Amanda twice put herself in the position of deciding the last person to vote and twice had problems with it. Maybe she should have learned and made a deal with Cirie or voted her out at 4. Parvati, the one who played the game in stages, had perfect F3 positioning, everyone wanting to bring her to the end. They saw her as beatable but, once at the last stage, Parvati had the game, the punch to score a knock-out at FTC.

Parvati played the better game as all the jorors who voted for her attested:

- Cirie's interview shows that she voted Parvati because of her answers at Final TC and that she could have voted for Amanda if she had answered honestly.

- Eliza basically said the same: "I voted for Parvati because although you only saw a small portion of final tribal, Parvati blew Amanda away in her answers. She was genuine, honest, and took credit for the moves she made while not apologizing for them. I had a hard time deciding because I was so disappointed that Cirie wasn't there (she 100% would have had my vote), but Parvati nailed all her answers at final tribal and I really respected the game she played out there. While voting I said "Parvati, I never imagined I would vote for you, except for to vote you out, but you really impressed me tonight. Great job answering questions and I hope you win."

Those two were the most objective jurors.

BTW: Even if you remove Cirie's vote, Parvati still wins 4-3!

As far as older jurors not being in Parvati's corner, this is what Kathy had to write in a post: "I ABSOLUTELY feel the right woman won. As you know one of my vids said that I didn't like Parvati from Cooks because of the nauseating flirt thing. She surprised me soooo much because she is very sweet and not just to the guys. She made me feel VERY welcome right from the beginning" Granted Kathy wasn't part of the jury but she certainly has inside info that we don't have.

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citywitch 250 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 02:38 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
As far as older jurors not being in Parvati's corner, this is what Kathy had to write in a post: "I ABSOLUTELY feel the right woman won.

strictly for the sake of friendly argument...for Kathy's yes vote I'm pretty sure you could count on a no vote from Jonathan Penner. Who's opinion as a player would I (read "anyone") respect more?

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 03:23 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-08 AT 03:26 PM (EST)

>"I'm pretty sure you could count on a no vote from Jonathan Penner."

Penner said that Parvati was a great social player and all he ever said about Amanda was: "Get a room". Judging by the moves Penner made in the Cooks, Parvati could have earned his votes by saying he inspired her to play hard. Penner wasn't one to play the honesty at all cost card. Amanda being Ozzy's girlfriend might also be enough for Penner to vote against her! Ever since Christy voted for Jenna, I don't pretend to be sure which way a vote would go.

>"Who's opinion as a player would I (read "anyone") respect more?

Well, Kathleen expressed her opinion clearly while you posted what you thought Jonathan would say. If it is a question of respecting a player's opinion, Kathleen's is the only one of the two that we have at the moment.

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tidefan1987 26 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 03:32 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
"strictly for the sake of friendly
>argument...for Kathy's yes vote I'm
>pretty sure you could count
>on a no vote from
>Jonathan Penner. Who's opinion
>as a player would I
>(read "anyone") respect more?"

Obviously I think most of us would respect Penner more, but even Penner wanted Parvarti out first because he knew she had game. Penner was right.
>

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 04:46 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-08 AT 04:49 PM (EST)

Cirie also said, in the same interview, that she was likely voting Parvati no matter what. And as already stated, she told Amanda she would vote Parvati if Amanda didn't take her to the Finals. When asked why she voted Parvati, that was the first thing Cirie mentioned; the jury performance was more of an after-thought as a means to more justify her vote.
I agree that of all the votes, Eliza's might have actually been determined by FTC and not preordained. But as I also already said, Eliza certainly respects Parvati's game and would play that before an alliance-based game like Amanda plays. If it weren't for Parvati's poor social play with Eliza, it wouldn't have even been a question. Eliza is probably the only person that Parvati screwed up with, but fortunately for her, she redeemed herself enough at FTC to still get Eliza's vote. Even if Amanda had a better FTC though, it is still only a tie if Eliza does vote for her.
For the same reasons as Eliza, I also think Penner would respect Parvati's game and lean towards her if he were voting.
Of course Kathleen is going to say something nice about Parvati. What else would she say? I'm not surprised though as Parvati appears to have been well-liked by everyone except for the guys she screwed over. That isn't so much a credit to Parvati as further proof of her duplicity. Jason probably thought she was super-nice, meanwhile she was calling Jason a loser in confessional. Such is Parvati. James saw thru her and had it right. Between Kathleen's assessment of Parvati based off what? 10 days together? Or James' assessment after being with her all game, I would go with James.


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

05-16-08, 05:47 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
>"Of course Kathleen is going to say something nice about Parvati. What else would she say?"

Anything she wants. Kathleen doesn't have problems stating her opinion. She called Jason a douchebag, adding: "Editing is a funny thing. Although they hit the nail on the head with Joel, they missed about 85% of Jason being more of a jerk than you could imagine."

BTW: Yul, Becky, Sundra, Jenny and Rebecca all said they liked Parvati after the Cooks. It couldn't all have been duplicity.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-08, 02:00 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
No, if Yul, Becky, and Sundra still say that today, then yeah, I believe it.


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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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06-16-08, 04:59 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: One Last Post on S16"
Great post, Iltarion

SKANKivor: Micronesia

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