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"The PMS ratings."
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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 08:23 AM (EST)
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"The PMS ratings."
Rate the winners on a 1-10 scale for the following categories:

Physical
Mental
Social

Gee, what an unfortunate ordering of initials.

Physical includes: performance in activity-based challenges (and public perception as a challenge threat), the amount of gruntwork contributed to the tribe, raw strength and endurance.

Mental incorporates: understanding of both the game's dynamics and the players in it, logic-based plays, performance in mental-based challenges, innovation, knowledge of local environment and hazards, idol usage (where applicable), raw intelligence and perception.

Social can factor in: the ability to construct and maintain alliances, emotion-based plays, food providing (more of a social play than anything else), relationships with other players, raw charisma and presence.

1. Borneo -- Richard Hatch
2. Australia -- Tina Wesson
3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn
4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson
5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik
6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca
7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine
8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich
9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty
10. Palau -- Tom Westman
11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright
12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas
13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole (fictional: ranking optional)
14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon
15. Japan -- Maria Savovic (fictional: ranking optional)
16. Fiji -- Earl Cole
17. China -- Todd Herzog
18. All-Stars II -- Ozzy Lusth (fictional: ranking optional)
19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow

Example: in tribal interactions, someone with a high social and low mental rating can see and manipulate the interactions between players, but won't understand what's triggering those dynamics in the first place. The reverse knows exactly what's going on and why, but isn't sure how to work their way in and change it.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: The PMS ratings. XXL Survivor 05-14-08 1
   RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-14-08 4
 RE: The PMS ratings. Colonel Zoidberg 05-14-08 2
   RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-19-08 29
       RE: The PMS ratings. Colonel Zoidberg 05-20-08 33
           RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-22-08 34
               RE: The PMS ratings. Colonel Zoidberg 05-22-08 35
                   RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-22-08 36
 RE: The PMS ratings. Spanky68 05-14-08 3
   RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-15-08 9
 RE: The PMS ratings. Jims02 05-14-08 5
   RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-14-08 6
 RE: The PMS ratings. ohmyheck 05-14-08 7
   RE: The PMS ratings. Colonel Zoidberg 05-15-08 14
 RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-14-08 8
   RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-15-08 10
       RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-15-08 11
           RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-15-08 12
               RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-15-08 13
                   RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-15-08 15
                       RE: The PMS ratings. XXL Survivor 05-15-08 16
                           RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-15-08 18
                               RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-15-08 19
                                   RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-16-08 22
                                       RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-16-08 23
                                           RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-16-08 24
                                               Rankings michel 05-16-08 25
                   RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-15-08 17
                       RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-15-08 20
                           RE: The PMS ratings. iltarion 05-16-08 21
 RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-16-08 26
   RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-17-08 27
       RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-19-08 28
           RE: The PMS ratings. michel 05-19-08 30
               RE: The PMS ratings. Estee 05-19-08 31
                   RE: The PMS ratings. XXL Survivor 05-19-08 32

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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 11:07 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: The PMS ratings."
1. Borneo -- Richard Hatch 6 for P, 10 for M, 6 for S
2. Australia -- Tina Wesson 5-8-10
3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn 8-6-9
4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson 3-9-7
5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik 6-9-8
6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca 3-6-2
7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine 4-6-5
8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich 7-7-5
9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty 4-7-8
10. Palau -- Tom Westman 10-8-9
11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright 9-9-10
12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas 5-8-4
13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole (fictional: ranking optional)
14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon 6-10-10
15. Japan -- Maria Savovic (fictional: ranking optional)
16. Fiji -- Earl Cole 5-9-10
17. China -- Todd Herzog 3-3-9
18. All-Stars II -- Ozzy Lusth (fictional: ranking optional)
19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow 2-8-10
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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 06:05 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: The PMS ratings."
6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca 3-6-2

Jenna with a Social of 2? The 'pretty girls clique' was annoying beyond most rational belief and she generally svcked at the whole 'talking to other people' thing, but -- 2? How does anyone manage to talk to the jury with a 2?

-- right. Sit next to Matthew.

Nevermind.

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 11:12 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: The PMS ratings."
With gusto.

1. Borneo -- Richard Hatch: 7, 9, 10; his game was very social, he was the original provider, and the only immunity he won was key
2. Australia -- Tina Wesson: 3, 8, 10; she was useless in challenges, but she masterminded the alliance that got her to the end
3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn: 6, 6, 10; again, his alliance got him far, and he hung back and bonded with the right people.
4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson: 7, 10, 7; her brains got her farther than anything else, considering her social game was just good enough to get by
5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik: 10, 8, 8; I dropped his social game because he was repulsive and seemed to create divisions, but he was the one-eyed king in the land of the blind
6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca: 8, 5, 10; she was careless mentally, but she made lots of friends and hung in there physically
7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine: 0, 8, 10; she was beyond useless physically, but she shined at the market and stroked the right people
8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich: 6, 8, 8; she let Rob do most of the dirty work, and whatever strings she pulled seemed really subtle
9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty: 8, 7, 8; he turned on the social game late, but the fact that Twila did his dirty work counts against him
10. Palau -- Tom Westman: 10, 10, 10; Obi Wan-Kenobi would envy his mental and social abilities
11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright: 7, 9, 9; a point off for social because she scrambled at the end, but for mental, bonus points for pouncing on the immunity advantage
12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas: 6, 4, 8; I honestly don't know how he won except his competition was sorry as hell, but at least he helped form the dominant alliance
13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole: 8, 10, 8; for someone who had no idea how to interact socially, she hung in there; it was her brains and cleverness, though, that won it for her
14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon: 5, 10, 10; injuries took their toll on his body, but he played a genius game and acted as the diplomat for his alliance
15. Japan -- Maria Savovic: 5, 7, 9; she didn't come off as a strong winner, but her social game was solid in winning what was effectively Cirie's game...ironically, her All-Stars II game was better
16. Fiji -- Earl Cole: 5, 8, 10; his overrated physical prowess was made up for by organizing the main alliance and cutting Yau-Man loose with kindness
17. China -- Todd Herzog: 3, 10, 9; he was useless in challenges, but finding the idol, cutting James loose, and turning a loss into a win at the final TC was a bonus
18. All-Stars II -- Ozzy Lusth: 9, 7, 9; he beat the best physically and made himself indispensible even after committing a major blunder
19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow: 6, 9, 10; her mental game improved, and her social game was impeccable; she wasn't quite at Tom Westman level, but she did what she had to


GO RED WINGS!

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-08, 10:36 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: The PMS ratings."
13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole: 8, 10, 8

Remember a while back when I mentioned having different views of each other's creations as a possible trip-up point...?

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-20-08, 10:26 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Well, that's absolutely true...but I look at Alex as a clever player who used what she had to get ahead. I assume that the cross would have flown in most seasons, and in Fiji, she might end up with a Yau-Man edit - smart, clever, and just strong enough physically to get by.

The season I see her as probably the least able to win is Cook Islands. Ozzy and Yul dominated that season, and even if she made it to F3 with both of them, she'll have trouble gaining votes.

Also, she did just as much with less. Ozzy won my season with awesome physical power, a strong provider role, and a hell of a pre-game speech. Alex is no motivator, wasn't the best at physical challenges (she was good, but she wasn't beating Gardener overall...Ozzy could probably hold his own against Gardener if he's full strength) and didn't seem like the provider type unless you count starting the fire.

I give her credit for a good physical game because she won two immunity challenges. Her social game seemed almost entirely learned, and even then, it was enough to get by without making any real connections. She was no Cirie, but she was no Dr. Sean.

Really, Ozzy's social game in my story left him wide open in the end - he was all alone at F5 and saved himself by capitalizing on the dominant alliance's meltdown. It's opportunism at its finest, but no one gets by without a little luck.


GO RED WINGS!

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-22-08, 10:25 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: The PMS ratings."
LAST EDITED ON 05-22-08 AT 04:28 PM (EST)

Alex's performance in different seasons is hard to call, because so much depends on who's around her. (As has been said here before, most people go out due to factors beyond their control, also known as 'other people'.) You could argue that she would have destroyed Richard by realizing there was a game on and outstrategizing him: you could also argue that Jenna and Heidi would have targeted her as a very early victim just because she didn't fit into their clique. Rewriting to that degree for every cast is a headache waiting to happen.

Gardener on the Physical side -- would frequently get trounced by Ozzy. Grump #1 is your classic offensive line player: practically all his speed is short-term, he's not all that flexible (and gets killed by grid challenges plus anything else involving narrow spacing), and while he can show something over the surface of the water for quick bursts, he's no diver. Balance is a matter of keeping his mass centered... you get the idea. Ozzy's the stronger all-around threat: Tony's performances against Gardener are the illustration of focus versus general athletics. (This matchup could give Gardener the Aras position to Ozzy's Terry: 'You need someone who can beat him at something. Let me hang around, and eventually, if my challenge type comes up, I'll take him down.' Of course, meanwhile, he's hanging around...)

The full Society Islands PMS cast ratings, to me, look like this:

Michelle Kesel: 4-5-8 (Colleen, basically: a little less than average physical ability, just a normal idea of what might be going on around her, and a definite social threat if given time to develop as one -- which she didn't have.)

Trina Zolna: 4-6-7 (A few vague strengths in the physical department that still don't have her up to average, a little more insight, and a fair amount of social skill. Again, just about a classic first boot from a tribe: not enough to contribute for challenges, so gets to take the last walk early.)

Elmore Nolan: 3-7-3 (Not as smart as he thinks he is -- his knowledge is too highly focused. Just about worthless physically, without even a specialty area that he can pull out at the last minute, and with no real idea how the social game should work because he doesn't think he needs it. Like Tony, part of a subculture that exists just about all by itself -- but his involves a lot less interaction with those outside it.)

Frank Neeman: 5-8-7 (Strictly average physically, but has a near-uberfan's understanding of the game and keeps his personality working fast and light while checking for angles and anticipating twists. His loose style can irritate people (and did, here and there), but it can also keep him around over others with a little bit of work. A Cesternino type: might have outright won Micronesia by running rings around Joel.)

Denadi Raven: 4-6-7 (She isn't the worst possible player, but she doesn't have the full mental commitment to the game: 'never give up, never surrender' is a foreign concept to her. Can see it coming, but isn't necessarily able to do anything about it.)

Desmond Cooper: 4-3-4 (The series virgin who was not wined and dined down the defloweration trail. Didn't understand the game or the people in it. Came in with one set strategy -- get a shelter going, ride the benefits from that while sitting in the middle of a protective alliance -- and had no idea how to adjust his plan to anything else. Would have had virtually no chance of talking the jury into anything and less of figuring out what he had to say: Gardener's ideal F2 partner.)

Trooper Reagan: 9-7-8 (Gretchen with a gender switch and more physical ability: just about tied with Tony for the most talented overall athlete in the pool. Some talent in dealing with people (which was rising as the job tension wore off), decent with the game, and might have had a few plans of his own working beyond 'keep winning the necklace and pray': in a Turare-majority merge, might have happily flipped to Mary-Jane and Alex if he saw his own doom coming down the road. A Tom sort in his way -- but one who didn't get to advance.)

Angela Mistege: 7-7-7 (Believes herself to be 7-10-8, which is almost all you need to know about her. A classic overplanner who manages to leave out one or two crucial angles because she doesn't believe they have any chance to exist. Social rating is as high as it is because of her ability to manipulate on a small scale: had Tony and Robin both believing their respective promises. Didn't particularly care if she irritated a few people as long as she still had jury-majority at the end: that's three she can afford to piss off, especially if she thinks they deserve it...)

Tony Tirello: 9-4-6 (A definite athletic threat and competition in just about any possible physical-based challenge. More intelligent than his Mental rating, which just measures game performance: he has some understanding of the game, but got blitzed by Angela on the emotional scale and never considered the play aspect/impact. (The question of how he might have played on his own if he had to do so from the start is a vaguely interesting one.) Can be sulky in defeat or embarrassment, but he doesn't stay that way long or hold onto anger from losses: generally gets along with people. A classic 'can have insight at rare times, but generally doesn't know what to do with it' problem waiting to happen.)

Phillip Geegaw: 8-7-8 (Athletically, has a lot of raw strength with a fair amount of endurance -- and not much else, but he stands a chance to dominate anything based in sheer power. Understands the game and has a very good handle on the people around him: Phillip's main problem is that he generally wants to believe the best of others as individuals -- even while he sees and accepts the worst of them as players. Good at separating the game from the people in it: no small feat. Could be an S9 if he was willing to take his own blinders off, and gets perceived as the jury threat in the pool.)

Mary-Jane Learner: 6-7-7 (Can stay in most challenges: you could argue for a P7 if she had a little more stamina, but really has more body sculpting than actual muscle tone, because models who look too cut don't get a full range of work. Honestly does understand the game and is willing to take risks with her votes and alliances: she's the anti-Denise in that a chance was handed to her and she had the courage to take it. (Of course, it immediately backfired.) Gets forgiven very easily despite making moves that could offend people: that's the main factor bringing her S rating up, because that's no easy trick in this game. Very arguably relies too much on emotional bonds.)

Robin Breslin: 7-6-6 (More of a physical challenge threat than she got to show: just about always found herself overshadowed at the last minute (and really needs to work in her own weight class). Has a fair concept of the game, but is willing to talk herself into believing whatever sounds best for her along with having the overconfidence to think she can spot anything going wrong far in advance followed by wriggling her way out of it -- not a good combination. Can definitely irritate people and occasionally displays all the finesse of a blunt axe. (Pinning Robin's S rating may have been the hardest number in the sixteen: her personality should backfire on her more than it does -- but somehow...))

Gary Watson: 5-7-8 (In good shape for his age, but 'for his age' is the problem in the more physical challenges. Combines a strong mental grasp of the game with excellent people-reading abilities to the point where he's not only seen as the secondary jury threat, but other players have to make deliberate end runs around him to make sure he doesn't realize what's going on and do something to stop it. Pretty much needs someone to link up with him and tow for as long as possible, followed by either absolute dedication at the last stage or a lucky necklace win. Central S problem is that while he invokes the softer authority of a father figure, he still invokes it -- relegating someone else to the 'child' role.)

Thomas Gardener: 8-8-6 (Athletic abilities discussed above. Gardener knows what's going on about as well as anyone, and he can even read people with some skill. His S rating can be argued to be artificially lowered -- by his own design: the last thing Gardener needs is to be a social threat on top of everything else, which makes his grumbling and general irascability into a sort of protective camouflage. It's not in his best interests for anyone to like him too much in the early game -- not to the point of seeing him as a jury threat.)

Connie Lasting-Adams: 4-7-6 (Honestly not the worst overall physical player: it's just that by the time she hits the individual stage, the weaker links are gone. Intelligent enough to figure out when to move and had enough to keep a pairing under the table for a good distance: the word we may need here isn't 'cunning', but it's close. Not bad at reading social links and can at least try for emotional plays: her central problem for her M and S ratings is that she ultimately sees what she wants to see -- which isn't necessarily what's going on. Can be extremely nasty, but keeps her direct enemy pool small (although she tends to create a splash effect).)

Alex Cole: 7-9-4 (As previously described.)



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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-22-08, 02:16 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I gave Alex extra credit for any part of the social game she learned - I kind of scored her on a handicap scale. Coming into the game, she had all the social deficiencies that would have plagued James, Ozzy, and Rupert - a preference for solitude, a complete lack of knowledge of how to get along, and a persecution complex. For the fact that she came in with a 2-7 offsuit in the social department, she worked with what she had.

In a lot of other seasons, she wouldn't have had a prayer because she would be seen as a loner. Exile Island? She's dead meat. Vanuatu? May be an Ami victim. Amazon? Like you said, she's probably a goner, at least if she plays the way she did. Being dropped into a game full of malcontents enabled Alex to win as something of an anti-hero (I picture Alex as the Survivor equivalent of House - a smart, shrewd player who has a lot of personality issues. Granted, both of them have reasons for their personality issues, but they are still often hard to identify with.)

I do think it's a little interesting what you said about Gardener - as if he perfected the Jean-Robert strategy before Jean-Robert screwed it up. It paid off - Phillip was the jury threat, and Gardener made F3 and probably could have won. Truth be told, the way I saw the season playing out before F4 was posted, I imagined Alex going head-to-head with Gardener and losing 4-3. (Of course, when I wrote Japan, I didn't decide Maria was the winner until I typed her name and almost had her losing in a shutout...and when I drew the boot list for All-Stars II, Ozzy originally lost. Maybe my brain just sees the eventual winner as a likely runner-up.)


GO RED WINGS!

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-22-08, 07:19 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: The PMS ratings."
What, no Japan & A.S.S. II across-the-board ratings?

Alex would be a game casualty at different stages for a lot of seasons: she's always a mental threat, but her social skills (lack thereof) can backfire on her very easily. I see her as potentially dominating Borneo just because she could figure out what was really going on before Richard did: after that, it can be a very hard road to travel. (There may be a little bit of irony in that for seasons with the various incarnations of the idol in play, she's everyone's best hope against it: Plan Voodoo would have been seen as a starting point.) But as said, you play the one that's in front of you.

As far as Jean-Robert goes, we all know someone with his ultra-low series knowledge didn't stand a chance of reading anything before deciding to go in on a Gardener play -- so let's chart this one under pure coincidence. The main difference is that Gardener was useful from Day One: helping on construction, providing, doing some of the grunt work around camp. He just kept his personality on that level where you're okay with having him around, but you can see where he can irritate people, maybe he'll eventually get a few to really dislike him -- you know, now that you think about it, this isn't a jury threat, and hopefully it isn't a time bomb looking for a place to go off...

By contrast, Jean-Robert's early work ethic was -- was -- was really, really stupid...

Here's your Amazon nightmare: Alex lasts long enough to reach the tribe switch, gets put in a group with Cesternino, and then allies up. Five months later, the rest of the pool starts to wonder what hit them.


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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 12:53 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: The PMS ratings."
1. Borneo -- Richard Hatch P 3, M 9, S 8
2. Australia -- Tina Wesson P 2, M 7, S 8
3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn P 8, M 8, S 9
4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson P 5, M 7, S 6
5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik P 6, M 9, S 9 (though I don't like him as a person much)
6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca P 4, M 8, S 8
7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine P 5, M 6, S 6
8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich P 5, M 7, S 9
9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty P 6, M 7, S 7
10. Palau -- Tom Westman P 10, M 8, S 9
11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright P 6, M 8, S 9
12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas P 7, M 8, S 8
13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole (sorry, I didn't read it all)
14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon P 8, M 10, S 8
15. Japan -- Maria Savovic sorry
16. Fiji -- Earl Cole P 5, M 7, S 8
17. China -- Todd Herzog (didn't finish the season, can't rate him fairly
18. All-Stars II -- Ozzy Lusth sorry
19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow P 4, M 5, S 6


Agman resized my siggie

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 03:27 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: The PMS ratings."
1. Richard Hatch - 22
P - 6
M - 10
S - 6
Mentally one of the best. Physically very average except camp contributions gives him a 6. His social game would have cost him if people that season knew what they were doing.
2. Tina Weston - 20
P - 4
M - 7
S - 9
Physically just below average. Mentally she was into the game but didn't exactly do anything brilliant. Her strength was socially. Everyone liked her. Colby so much so he gave her a million.
3. Ethan Zohn - 22
P - 7
M - 6
S - 9
Physically never dominated. Has the mental game of a sidekick. Like Tina, he was universally liked though.
4. Vecepia Towery - 16
P - 3
M - 6
S - 7
Was liked and didn't make any mental mistakes. Otherwise, nothing impressive.
5. Brian Heidik -27
P - 9
M - 10
S - 8
Physically one of the strongest winners especially when you factor in camp contributions. His mental game was impeccable, and though people like to knock him socially, everyone on his tribe liked him.
6. Jenna M - 19
P - 6
M - 4
S - 9
Was very well liked, her whole game was based around friendships. Physically she wasn't anything special, but she has to get some credit for 4 IC wins. She didn't play much of a mental game. Probably the weakest mental game of all the winners.
7. Sandra DT - 13
P - 1
M - 8
S - 4
Physically weakest winner and socially she was no Mother Theresa. Mentally she was always in the game though.
8. Amber M - 19
P - 6
M - 6
S - 7
She was an above average physical player. Same with mental game. Her social game was her best suit though the only person she really needed to corral was Rob.
9. Chris D - 21
P - 5
M - 9
S - 7
Fairly average in most things except his mental game, where he was strong and always into the game, playing from Day 1.
10. Tom Westman - 29
P - 10
M - 9
S - 10
Physically, obviously a 10, and socially, how can the most liked Survivor winner of all time be anything but a 10? Everyone loved the guy, except Coby. Mentally I give him a 9 because Ian thought of the brilliant tie scenario. Tom was virtually perfect mentally though.
11. Danni B - 24
P - 6
M - 8
S - 10
One of the best socially, even reeled in a gay guy. Physically she was merely above average and mentally she was into the game but made some strategical errors that almost cost her.
12. Aras B - 23
P - 8
M - 7
S - 8
Like I always said, Aras was just good at everything, great at nothing. After Terry and Cirie fell by the wayside, the game was his.
13. Yul - 26
P - 8
M - 10
S - 8
With Brian and Hatch for best mental game. He was physically decent though he couldn't beat Ozzy. He was socially very good and well-liked, but I wouldn't say he was among the best there.
14. Earl Cole - 22
P - 5
M - 8
S - 9
Earl really didn't have to do much. He played a very good social game and a solid mental game, and it was no contest after Yau Man got the boot.
15. Todd H - 23
P - 4
M - 9
S - 10
Among the best social games we've ever seen. He betrayed people, and they still preferred him over Amanda. He mentally was very good though made a couple mistakes, was prone to paranoia and second-guessing himself.
16. Parvati S - 24
P - 5
M - 9
S - 9
Was average physically. The only IC she won was given to her, but she isn't a liability during challenges either. Mentally she was very sharp and knows the game, but all the biggest moves were Cirie's idea as well as hers. She is definitely one of the most socially aggressive people ever to play Survivor, but I can't give her a 10 when 3 of the 8 jury members practically despised her.

>

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 08:17 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: The PMS ratings."
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-08 AT 08:19 PM (EST)

Gee, almost seems like we're RPGing this thing. Who gets to give out the Magic Points?

I tried really hard to base each score based on the average for all Survivors... Not necessarily the people from their season, or of all the winners. My scores will therefore seem a little high. But that's mostly due to the fact that winners are supposed to be above-average overall.

1. Borneo - Richard Hatch
P = 5
M = 10
S = 7

Richard is pretty meh in most physical challenges, probably average overall. His strength has always been the mental, analytical part of the game. Has a certain amount of charisma, so he's a bit above average in the social game. Can sometimes turn off certain people.

2. Australia -- Tina Wesson
P = 3
M = 7
S = 10

Not a big challenge threat, but not completely worthless at them. She's a player that's similar to Cirie, in that they master the social aspect of things. Everyone seemed to like Tina.

3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn
P = 8
M = 7
S = 9

Very well-rounded. A challenge-threat, but beatable (remember Mama Kim?). Usually pretty likeable to most people, so attracting potential allies seem pretty easy for him.

4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson
P = 4
M = 7
S = 7

Not a huge challenge threat, but better than Tina. Decent balance between Social/Mental, but still not at mind-blowing levels.

5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik
P = 8
M = 9
S = 7

Strong competitor, physically and mentally. The only downside would be the social game, where his really cool personality might turn people away from him. But he still gets a 7, because he held his alliances together well.

6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca
P = 6
M = 6
S = 9

Surprisingly tough in most challenges. Jenna was really good at, um, attracting people to her. She understands the individual components of the game, but primary looked at it in a social way.

7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine
P = 2
M = 9
S = 7

Was really worthless in challenges, even worse than Tina. She always did have a pulse on the complexity of the game, but wasn't always able to woo people into doing what she wanted... Although it's tough to control Jonny Fairplay.

8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich
P = 5
M = 6
S = 8

Okay at physical stuff... The Amazing Race proved that. Tends to also strike me as someone more emotionally and socially-centered. Boston Rob was always the cool robotic one in that couple, in terms of strategy.

9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty
P = 7
M = 7
S = 7

Just above average at everything.

10. Palau -- Tom Westman
P = 10
M = 8
S = 7

Tom gets a 10 in Physical, because the guy destroyed pretty much every challenge he was in, even against young guns like Ian. Played a strong mental/social game too, but sometimes had problems controlling his alliance around him (read: Katie).

11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright
P = 6
M = 8
S = 6

Meh. The only aspect that stands out was her mental game. She always seemed to know what was going on, and the inter-dynamics, but had trouble getting people to have her way.

12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas
P = 8
M = 7
S = 6

A great physical performer, but not an Ozzy, Tom, or Terry. Had a few run-ins with people which affects his social game, and I don't think people viewed him as someone particularly charismatic. But he held an alliance together pretty well.

14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon
P = 8
M = 8
S = 8

Tough competitor. Not Ozzy (who would score an 11), but good enough. He was great at holding together his alliance (socially), but tended to make decisions based on logic. Just a solid player all around.

16. Fiji -- Earl Cole
P = 4
M = 9
S = 7

Gave him a 4 in challenges, because he was never all that great in them. He consistently got beaten by Yau Man in every challenge. Does a good job with the mental game, especially in helping Yau play the idol, and people seemed to like him enough.

17. China -- Todd Herzog
P = 6
M = 7
S = 9

Todd gets a 9 in "Social" because a lot of his moves seemed to be made based on his emotions, with him getting annoyed with various people. Amanda was the cooler, unemotional person of the two. Still solid in the other categories, though.

19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow
P = 6
M = 9
S = 8

Parvati always had her finger on the pulse of the game. Her decisions were always based on logic and strategy, so I tend to rank her Mental highest. Her Social game is nothing to sneeze at, though, as evidenced by some of her jury votes.

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 08:31 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Who gets to give out the Magic Points?

Aras, Trina, Peter, or Linda. Your choice.

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05-14-08, 09:48 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: The PMS ratings."
1. Borneo -- Richard Hatch, P-6, M-10, S-7 - The original master of the mental game, and helped his tribe make it through the tribal stage without being demolished, but he was not great at making friends. His ability to provide food severely upped his social rating.

2. Australia -- Tina Wesson, P-2, M-9, S-10 - Absolutely useless in challenges, but her endurance both in that perch challenge and in surviving the 42 days drag her up to a 2. Her mental and social games were nearly flawless.

3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn, P-7, M-3, S-6 - I'm still a bit confused as to how he came out of that finale as the winner. His physical game was not as good as it should have been, and his M and S were nothing special. He gets a six on social because he was a nice guy, and he made friends easily.

4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson, P-1, M-2, S-6 - bad physically, never made any moves, with the exception being the overthrow of the Rotu 4, but she did no work on that. She obviously remembered things people told her because she won the fallen comrades challenge.

5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik, P-8, M-10, S-9 - As much as I despise Brian, I realize that he played a great game.

6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca, P-7, M-1, S-8 - She won clutch immunity challenges, and she had one of the greatest FTC performances ever, but she played the worst mental games since Sean Kenniff.

7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine, P-1, M-3, S-5 - Probably one of the worst overall games in the history of survivor, but she perfected the 'as long as it ain't me' strategy. Gets a bump up on the mental side because of the Burton move.

8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich, P-6, M-5, S-6 - Even though I credit Rob for her win, she won one of the more difficult challenges in All-Stars against two strong competitors.

9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty, P-2, M-7, S-5 - The pivotal moment in Vanuatu was the Leann boot. I credit Twila with the move because it was her idea. He was worthless physically. It took a non-physical challenge for him to finally win immunity against the women.

10. Palau -- Tom Westman, P-10, M-9, S-9 - The closest to a perfect game that has ever been played, but his strongarming tactics nearly cost him the game, and forced him to go on an extended immunity run.

11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright, P-7, M-6, S-9 - The ultimate opportunist. Played well enough in challenges to compete, but was not a champion. Her social game influenced Stephenie and Lydia to vote for Cindy over her.

12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas, P-7, M-4, S-5 - Kind of a fluke win. Cirie would have won if she would have beat Danielle in the firemaking challenge. His social game was nothing special, and neither was his mental.

13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole (fictional: ranking optional), P-9, M-10, S-4 - She was able to hold her own against Gardener in challenges, understood every move of the game quickly, found three idols, and was tough as anyone real to ever play the game, but her social game was pretty terrible with one exception: bringing in the jaguar goes under providing food and bumps her up to a four. She was unable to make emotion-based plays, destroyed a couple of alliances (with good reason, but the best players would have pushed through it), and had little to no charisma or presence.

14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon, P-5, M-10, S-7 - I find him to be an overrated player. He underperformed in challenges (letting Sundra and Becky beat him in a couple), and he only won the final because Ozzy was terrible socially.

15. Japan -- Maria Savovic (fictional: ranking optional), P-5, M-3, S-4 - Zoidberg, I'll be honest, I've read Japan twice, and I still have no idea how Maria won. I think it might have been because - no, that wasn't it. *shrugs* I have no idea how Maria won.
16. Fiji -- Earl Cole, P-2, M-9, S-8 - His physical is so low because I never got the impression that he tried in challenges. His mental game was great, and his social was good, but he only had to defeat one actual player in 39 days, which takes away form his win a little bit.

17. China -- Todd Herzog, P-4, M-9, S-8 - A good player, with a phenomenal FTC performance, but he usually let his paranoia get the best of him.
18. All-Stars II -- Ozzy Lusth (fictional: ranking optional), First let me say that I am only considering the story when I make this ranking. I'm not throwing in Cook Islands or his horrible play in Micronesia. P-10, M-8, S-9 - His only mental misstep being when he threw away a vote in the second episode - and took out his ally. His social problems were his loner qualities.

19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow, P-3, M-5, S-6 - I credit Cirie with her win. Her and Cirie did the same things, but Cirie did them better, and with full effect. Not good physically, not great mentally, and only good socially if you ask Alexis or the psycho bitch.

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Colonel Zoidberg 3645 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 09:58 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I've read Japan twice, and I still have no idea how Maria won.

Don't feel bad. I wrote Japan, and I'm still not sure how she won. The only reason I can think of is that it worked out really well for her story arc in All-Stars II.


GO RED WINGS!

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-08, 11:03 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: The PMS ratings."
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-08 AT 11:12 PM (EST)


1- Danni: 25
P: 6 - She was good in challenges
M: 9 - She could lead, follow and infiltrate.
S: 10 - She became almost everyone's friend

2- Tom: 24
P: 10 - One of the best ever
M: 7 - Didn't need much
S: 7 - Rubbed some people the wrong way

3- Tina: 22
P: 2 - Not very strong in challenges
M: 10 - Tina flipped her alliance 3 times and Colby got blamed
S: 10 – Tina was very well liked by most

4- Todd: 21
P: 4 - Todd did his part
M: 10 – Todd used the Art of War to perfection
S: 7 – He made the friendships he needed and managed his conflicts sufficiently well

5- Yul: 21
P: 5 - Yul was average.
M: 7 - All the twists removed most of the mental game.
S: 9 - Yul, the diplomat, was too trusting for a regular season

6- Parvati: 21
P: 6 - She won a key immunity
M: 7 - She was part of some amazing moves.
S: 8 - She's a very gregarious person.

7- Richard: 20
P: 5 - Rich did what he had to do in challenges
M: 10 - He used management team building techniques to Survivor.
S: 5 - His arrogance almost cost him the game.

8- Aras: 20
P: 8 - Casaya's challenge leader, he won the IC he needed.
M: 5 - He mainly used Cirie’s brilliant moves
S: 7 - No one could have managed the conflicts better and he was well liked.

9- Earl: 19
P: 4 - He didn't do much but helped.
M: 8 – He figured everyone out from the start.
S: 7 – Earl made many friends and was respected by all.


10- Chris: 19
P: 5 - Won many IC... at the end!
M: 8 - His multiple deals saved him.
S: 6 - He fooled everyone into thinking they were friends.

11- Brian: 18
P: 8 - Sook Jai was pathetic. 9 seconds under water!!
M: 7 - He was never challenged, never questioned.
S: 3 - He almost lost because he wasn’t as good socially as Clay… Clay!!

12- Jenna: 17
P: 6 - She did well only in a few ICs
M: 5 - Sometimes brilliant, sometimes idiotic.
S: 6 - Forming a clique of 3 in a tribe of 8 is a dangerous thing to flaunt.

13- Amber: 16
P: 6 - She did her part in tribal and won a key IC.
M: 4 - She followed. Tom's boot was idiotic.
S: 6 - Her presence didn't offend these gigantic egos.

14- Sandra: 14
P: 1 - Physical?
M: 7 – She stepped up at the F5 when it really mattered.
S: 6 - She made strong bonds with enough members of the jury.

15- Ethan: 13
P: 4 - Very disappointing.
M: 3 - He let Lex's gut decide
S: 6 - He was a nice guy but was lucky to face such a weak opposition.

16- Vecepia: 12
P: 3 - Did she do anything besides the F4 IC?
M: 4 - At F4, she voted for the only player she could beat.
S: 5 - People hated her less than Neleh

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 03:36 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Regarding Brian and Clay-
Brian got the votes of the 4 people that spent the most time with Brian and Clay and knew them best.
Clay got the votes of the 3 people who spent the least time with them and knew them the least.
Clay got the votes Brian didn't need. Brian already knew how Jan, Jake, Helen and Ted were going to vote. They hated Clay. Brian played the social game he needed to play and nothing more. He didn't need Penny, Ken or Erin, and therefore showed them no attention. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even know their names. Outplayed socially by Clay? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 07:36 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I'm not sure Brian knew he had Helen's vote when she was growling at him at Final TC!

I only wrote a 1 line comment but the low note is deserved. Thailand was the most antisocial season ever, everyone hating everybody else. Clay is probably the most hated player to ever make F2 yet people who voted for Brian barely liked him more. It's a fact that Clay was the ONLY person Brian could beat so he was smart to drag him around but what if Clay had been medevaced? True, it's hard to get injured when you don't do a thing, but still... With his extreme inability to make friends, (What's her name Li Yan? Sue Lin?) a tribal switch could very well have left Brian high and dry.

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 08:17 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: The PMS ratings."
a tribal switch could very well have left Brian high and dry.

That's just about a challenge in itself: name a winner who would not have been destroyed by a tribal switch that left them in the minority group at just the wrong moment. Even Amber was only saved by Lex's blind trust, and she could have been ruined by an earlier swap. The member swap is the no-defense twist -- which is why it's A. half-mandatory and B. really, really annoying.

Shii Ann.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 08:27 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I could name Vee who wound up in the minority of Rotu while Danni went from the majority tribe to the minority one but that isn't the point. At least Ethan, Vee, Jenna, Amber, Chris, Danni, Earl, Todd and Parvati faced the challenges of the switch. It's always a scary thing as Parvati said: "I didn't have the numbers anymore".
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 04:21 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I have stated this before but Brian wins against any of his tribemates that he would have brought. It was just that Clay was the surest. Helen and Clay and Jan and Jake all still vote for Brian if he is against Ted, and Brian certainly wins against Jan, who probably wouldn't even have gotten the Sook Jai votes. Helen is the only tribemate who could have beaten Brian, maybe. She would have needed the Sook Jai votes to do it, and we don't know if she would have gotten those or not. Remember, as much as everyone rips on Clay, he was the first to plant a vote on the jury in Penny.
Brian was actually quite good at making friends, as he did with his whole tribe. He had little problem turning on the used car salesman and wooing Shi Ann over to his side when it looked like they needed her. It just shows how dangerous in this game Brian is that as soon as he no longer needed Shi Ann he forgot her name even. Haha... You want to talk about a dangerous player! Brian would have been better able to survive a tribal switch because he was one of the younger members of his tribe and could have possibly fit in there. You underestimate his ability to charm people, which is something that obviously comes naturally to him.
Lastly, I agree that Thailand was one of the worst as far as people not caring for each other. I mean, Helen and Ted and Jan and Clay all liked Brian, but did any of them like each other at all? Not really, which is why Brian could have taken nearly any of them to the Finals and won. Clay was the sure win because he had argued with Jake and ticked him off. Once he did that, it was game over. I don't agree that Thailand is tops in this regard though. Borneo is. Hatch and Kelly and Sue and Rudy all had confessionals where they stated in no uncertain terms that they didn't care a whip about any of the other players. Season 1 was the worst for that. At least Helen and Brian were fairly close.
Anyway, we can drop the Brian argument-revisited. What is it that Edgar Allen Poe once said? "Misery is manifold. The wretchedness of the Brian-argument is multiform."? Haha... not that talking about Brian again bothers me, obviously.
I would like to point out one more issue I have with your mostly solid scores. You rated Danni and Parvati higher for Physical than Yul. Haha... I know they won a couple ICs where Yul did not, but that was only because Yul could not beat Ozzy during those particular challenges. If we could have them all face off again in a challenge, you can bet on Danni and Parvarti and I'll take Yul. I would very much like my chances with that.

>

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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 04:52 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: The PMS ratings."
>I don't agree that
>Thailand is tops in this
>regard though. Borneo is. Hatch
>and Kelly and Sue and
>Rudy all had confessionals where
>they stated in no uncertain
>terms that they didn't care
>a whip about any of
>the other players. Season 1
>was the worst for that.
>

What are you talking about? Some of the Borneo fab four liked each other. Remember Rudy's confessional that went something like "Over the past few weeks, Rich and I have become pretty close...though not in any homosexual kind of way!!!"

I agree that to rate Pavarti a better physcial performer than Yul is inaccurate (if I did that I take it back). Definitely, one has to consider the competion that Yul was facing in Ozzy. However, I think Danni vs. Yul might be a close matchup depending on the type of challenge. Given her success against pretty good challenge competition in Guatemala, I think Danni merits a higher score than Yul on this factor, though it ought to be close.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 05:18 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Yeah, Kelly and Sue loved each other, and Sue and Hatch showed their mutual love in All Stars. Haha... Okay, Rudy and Hatch might have been alright with each other.
It wasn't your scores I was referring to, XXL. But I do see you have Yul rated as a 6 physically and Danni as a 9. Woah. I think the converse is more likely true.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 09:00 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Regarding Physical scores, here's my reason for giving Parvati and Danni a 6 while Yul only got a 5:

- All 3 were about equally efficient in tribal challenges.

- The 1 point difference comes from the following: Parvati and Danni are women. A woman that can win an immunity or two sees her chances of winning increase. A man that looks strong like Yul but cannot win a challenge or two sees his chances of winning decrease.


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 03:04 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: The PMS ratings."
That is reasonable explanation, michel. Except you can't grade everyone together and compare their scores, like they are comparable, if the scores mean different things for different players. A man being an 8 or a 9 is probably a bad thing; whereas a woman probably ideally wants to be a 6, but you can't take that into account unless you are going to then rank the men and women separately.
And, yeah, it was the F9 where Brian about single-handedly beat Sook Jai. Without that win, it is 4-4 at the merge, and anything is still possible. That win sealed Sook Jai's fate. Again, it wasn't luck that Sook Jai sucked or that Brian beat them. Winning challenges is called making your own luck.

>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 11:50 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: The PMS ratings."
This is getting fun!


>you can't grade everyone together
>and compare their scores, like
>they are comparable, if the
>scores mean different things for
>different players.

I think I did compare all the players and how their physical game contributed to their win.

- Tom deserved the highest score = 10

- Brian, Aras: very good in team challenges, won key IC = 8

- Jenna, Amber, Danni, Parvati: good in team challenges, won key IC = 6

- Richard, Chris, Yul: Average in challenges = 5

The rest, I considered weak in the physical aspect of the game.


>And, yeah, it was the F9
>where Brian about single-handedly beat
>Sook Jai.
>Winning challenges is called making
>your own luck.

Single-handedly? I remember Jan outlasting Ken and Penny. Jan stayed 15 seconds under water to Ken and Penny's 9 seconds. Correct me if I'm wrong but Jan beat 2 Sook Jai members!! I call it luck when your competition is so weak that an old granny can beat half the team. Brian only had to beat 62 year old Jake and had a 20 second lead on him.


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 12:20 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Obviously, it was harder than simply holding your breath, otherwise Ken would have lasted longer than 9 seconds. Maybe he and Penny got salt up their nose. I don't know. Brian may have been given a lead by his teammates, but he was underwater longer than anyone else. So it wouldn't have mattered if they had given him a lead or not. If Brian comes up in 9 seconds, like Ken, they lose. Instead he was down the longest, sealing the win for his tribe. If Jan had not gone at all, they still would have won.
I guess that is the difference between ranking on ability versus what they actually accomplished. Based off accomplishments, Jenna should be a 10 while Yul is a 5, but based off actual ability, Yul is more like an 8 with Jenna a 6. I think physically I went more off ability with a slighter consideration for what they actually accomplished. The problem with going strictly off their accomplishments is that their competition was all different.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 12:56 PM (EST)
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25. "Rankings"
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-08 AT 12:59 PM (EST)

>"Based off accomplishments, Jenna should be a 10 while Yul is a 5"

Jenna is a 10 only for the last 2 ICs (OK, maybe also in a swim suit!) Judging only on the last 2 ICs, Chris would also be a 10 (but certainly not in a swim suit!) In the team challenges, I don't recall a single important contribution from Jenna and Chris was pathetic at times. I use accomplishment to project how they would do in different seasons. Chris and Jenna's lackluster team performances could get them voted out before the merge in different circumstances. That lowers their score.

Yul looks like a physical threat but he hasn't shown he could win an IC. That could be dangerous in any post-merge, just ask James! Add the fact that Yul was the star of only 1 team challenge, and not a physical one at that, and his results are average.

As far as abilities are concerned, maybe they would all get salt in their nose, so who can tell for sure!


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 05:13 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I know I just posted something about Brian, but let me specifically address the "tribal switch." The tribal switch is a boon to the weaker, physically speaking, players. In nearly every tribal switch that occurred, the strongest members of the minority tribe were booted first. In a sense, the tribal switch is like an early merge, giving each tribe a chance to purge threats. When you look at who has fallen victim to the tribal switch, Silas, Roger and then Dave J, Rob M, Golden Boy, Aaron, and Joel to just name some, it should be no surprise that the list of winners during those seasons are not the strongest physical players. So, yes, a tribal switch would have made things very difficult for Tom, and more difficult for Brian, but conversely, the switches made the game easier for Jenna, Chris, Todd and Parvati to win. The switches weren't something those players had to "overcome." Instead, they were a big help to their game.


>

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-08, 09:27 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: The PMS ratings."
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-08 AT 12:25 PM (EST)

>I know I just posted something
>about Brian, but let me
>specifically address the "tribal switch."
>The tribal switch is a
>boon to the weaker, physically
>speaking, players.

Let's have the facts:
Players booted after switches:
S3 - Silas and Lindsey
S4 - Sarah, Gabe, Gina
S6 - Jeanne, Shawna
S8 - Jerri
S9 - Bubba, Lisa, John K
S11 - Brooke, Blake, Brian, Margaret, Amy
S14 - Anthony, Rocky, Lisi
S15 - Aaron, Sherea
S16 - Joel, Chet, Tracy, Ami

>In nearly every
>tribal switch that occurred, the
>strongest members of the minority
>tribe were booted first.

As seen above, that is not true. Rory was stronger than Bubba. Sarah, Jeanne, Brooke and Anthony were definitely not physical threats! A strong player was booted immediately after a switch in only 3 occasions: Silas, Aaron and Joel. Of those, only Aaron had an acceptable social game.


>When you
>look at who has fallen
>victim to the tribal switch,
>Silas, Roger and then Dave
>J, Rob M, Golden Boy,
>Aaron, and Joel to just
>name some,

Sorry but Rob M and Sean made the merge as did Roger and Dave. They weren't victims of switches Golden Boy was booted but his old tribe had majority. You can't say he was victim of a switch either.

Other strong players survived switches, Judd, Gary, Mookie and James to name a few. James survived switches in both seasons. Do you suppose his personality had something to do with it?


>...the game easier for Jenna, Chris,
>Todd and Parvati to win.
>The switches weren't something those
>players had to "overcome." Instead,
>they were a big help
>to their game.

Sorry, but they were also affected by switches. Todd was coasting to the merge until he realized all Fei Long's work could have been wiped out if Zhan Hu threw a second immunity. Todd made a plan to counter it. He overcame the switch.

Similarly, Parvati and Jenna were coasting to the merge like Brian and Tom but the merge forced them to scramble again.

Chris had a very lucky switch but, if he had kept people like Brady around and wound up with a majority of women, he'd have been in trouble. Chris planned ahead to the switch by booting Brook, JP and Brady.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 02:22 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Good points. I guess when you really look at it, the strongest person being voted off the minority tribe is only a recent trend- ie. last two seasons. And I only included Rob M on the list because you had Vee on your winners-post-switch list, but of course, you're right. He was the first boot post merge.
However, Todd and Parvati both definitely benefitted from the tribal switch. The unfair switch in China sent Aaron packing, who could have ended up being a big obstacle to Todd making the F3. With Aaron gone, the only strategical adversary Todd had to worry about was Amanda, who outplayed him, but then flamed out in FTC. And Todd didn't know the other tribe was throwing challenges, remember. That was why he asked James to throw the challenge so that he could be voted for. No reason to ask James to do that if either of them knew that the challenge was going to be thrown.
Parvati's end game was made by her time with the other tribe, which is where she built the relationships that helped secure 3 of her votes. She was also very fortunate that Airai was the stronger tribe, and thanks mostly to James and Eliza kept winning challenges. If Airai loses that first IC after the switch, Parvati is a likely victim since Jonathan and Eliza were ready to flip and both wanted her gone. But, again, when there is a tribal switch you have to rely more on luck; it brings more happenstances into the game.


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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-08, 03:05 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: The PMS ratings."
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-08 AT 07:37 AM (EST)

1. Borneo -- Richard Hatch: 6-8-7 Wasn't the strongest player, but didn't have to be: when you're the only one who's aware there's a game on, the victory is just about automatic. Had more challenge ability than some suspected -- everyone keeps forgetting he was a West Point graduate -- and figured out the basics we now know -- but at the same time, may have only been the master because no one else was up to 'student'.

2. Australia -- Tina Wesson: 4-7-8: Had a pretty good mental grasp on the game, but a stronger grip on some of the people in it: any time you can convince people to act against their own best interests, you have to be doing something right. (Physically, had just enough to survive the tribal stage in one piece.)

3. Africa -- Ethan Zohn: 6-6-8: Somehow never manifested as the challenge threat he should have been (and had some really interesting losses), and had no more of a mental grasp on the game than your typical slightly-above-average home viewer -- but got people to like him. People who like you are going to consider voting for you -- or in a season where people weren't thinking 'ideal F2 makes-me-look-good partner', taking you along...

4. Marquesas -- Vecepia Towery-Robinson: 4-5-6: Didn't exactly have to make a lot of moves, win challenges, or smile her way through the game because it's debatable as to whether anyone knew she was there. (The camera sure had trouble picking her up.) Barely needed any social game at the end because the jury hated her F2 companion and before that, barely needed -- anything.

5. Thailand -- Brian Heidik: 6-9-7: Played a divide-and-conquer game that we haven't seen before or since (except on BB, where it fell apart because someone finally compared notes). Knew his tribe better than some of them knew themselves and manipulated them mentally and emotionally to keep himself on track to the point where something like his nightmarish video from home was nothing more than a momentary inconvenience: the only reasons his social rating isn't higher are his relative inability to account for all of it in front of the jury and the very narrow win where his competitor's grand total score was about 11. Kept in physical contention, but never really showed potential signs of dominance and wound up winning the last challenge against what might have been the weakest pair possible.

6. Amazon -- Jenna Morasca: 5-5-5: Might have had one of the weirdest play styles ever seen, and it just might be the strangest one to ultimately work: show up in challenges (but little more than that until the end), don't show that much notice of whatever's going on around you, and only form bonds with those who are closest to you in every way -- while carefully excluding everyone else unless desperation really comes calling. Treated the game like an eighth-grade war of cliques and had it succeed: not the most encouraging of signs for social advancement... Mental game would be ranked lower if not for that necklace pass (which may have had a small gameplay component), and while good socially with her own group, didn't know how to associate with others. Benefited endlessly from being next to Matthew, which might have been the only play she truly needed to make...

7. Pearl Islands -- Sandra Diaz-Twine: 3-7-5: For all the contributions she made to group challenges, never should have survived the tribal stage -- but managed to stay in while being challenge-useless, which might have been her greatest achievement in the game. Had a strong grasp on what was going on around her, but was pretty good at irritating people (remember some of the fights?) and frequently couldn't start things off herself: going along with the majority is a tactic, but it's not exactly an innovative one. Very possibly would have lost to Jon, who was a considerably better liar.

8. All-Stars -- Amber Brkich: 6-5-6: Didn't have much, but didn't need much: found her goat on Day One and spent the entire game walking behind him, watching him pick out a sure and certain path to the slaughterhouse. Only saved through one of the best social plays ever -- made by someone else on her behalf -- and then got to face a jury who despised her partner and had no one else to vote for but her. Ultimately, Rob cast a long shadow -- and the shadow won.

9. Vanuatu -- Chris Daugherty: 6-8-7: Should have been more of a challenge threat than he was, but really never kicked into any kind of higher gear: most of his later performance has to be judged by who he was up against. May have started fully active play later than any other winner, but kicked that into the highest possible gear as soon as it was time to go. (I'm still deducting a little for the time delay.) Managed to find the cracks in the diamond and use them for a near-precision shattering, but still needed a boost of Twila-power to reach the summit. Within the scope of the main timeline, the embodiment of the game's 'never surrender' aspect: that's good for a mental point right there.

10. Palau -- Tom Westman: 10-8-8: To date, remains the physical threat in the winners' pool and would have to be considered a danger in just about any challenge he was in. Did manage to offend a few people (and one to the point of fury), but also kept an intact tribe on an even keel for a long time -- no small feat, given that the grudges had weeks to multiply -- and then supervised the dismantling with a minimum of drama. Had a strong grasp on the game, the other players, and while he semi-fluked into F2, probably would have won the challenge anyway. Some flaws, sure -- but still proves that once in a rare while, the Gretchen in the contestant pool can take the whole thing.

11. Guatemala -- Danielle Boatwright: 7-7-7: A strong degree of physical adeptness at the tribal stage and brought that aspect of her play into individual view just when she needed it most. Was able to get into and maintain her position in alliances, but her greatest social benefit was Stephenie's unerring ability to offend just about everyone when the occasion didn't call for it: who needs to shine in front of the jury when you're sitting next to a self-made pariah? Good grasp of what was going on around her and was capable of a vote deflection if needed in a tight spot. Made relatively few mental plays, one of which was the all-time opportunist move of the game (and started off with a bit of dumb luck in having it offered at all), but had the ones she did make work out to her benefit. Would have been a factor in most contestant pools.

12. Panama -- Aras Baskauskas: 7-6-7: The second of the major shadow games, spending most of the game hiding in the shade cast by Terry -- and being kept around by the others because they needed someone who might eventually beat the opposition. Stronger physically than it seemed at the time: just had a dominant player in his pool. Mentally went along with whatever was being planned at the time while keeping an eye on his own potential vulnerability (especially as regarded vote bounces): didn't touch off anything of world-class note. Had some rough social bumps, especially at the start of the game -- everyone remember the hand-stacking? -- but recovered to present an image as a fairly likable guy who just happened to be your only hope. Presented the better snow job to Danielle in order to reach F2 and wound up being another winner who reaped their ultimate benefit from a perfect jury partner -- although to be fair, anyone would have beaten Danielle.

13. Society Islands -- Alex Cole: 7-9-4: May have understood the game's internal and external dynamics as well as any existent player, had a visible edge in some of the mental challenges, and would have served as the forever-after model for idol play -- but her typical position in physical ones was one where she could watch the necklace go to whoever had just come in first to her second. Had a good idea of what some of the others in her contestant pool were planning, but didn't always grasp how to potentially use it against them. Was generally approached by others to join voting blocs (as opposed to starting them) and couldn't make emotional plays to save her life. Perceived as a potential F2 goat who would have been taken along by either of the other people at F3. Arguably the single worst social player to ever win the game.

14. Cook Islands -- Yul Kwon: 7-8-8: Have to give Yul credit for battling through injuries and I can't lower his Physical rating just for being up against Ozzy twice per cycle -- but despite his high ratings, aspects of his game remain a judgment call simply because he didn't need to show much. Immobile, unflushed idols cover a host of sins: Yul didn't need to conduct a lot of plays. Gets lots of credit for being the first to really play the idol as a blackmail tool and make it work, plus had little trouble finding and keeping loyalties (although against loner Ozzy, it was an easy talent to manifest in direct competition). I'm judging his game on a fraction of what it could have been -- but you can only play the one that's in front of you, and Yul dealt with his season as best he could.

15. Japan -- Maria Savovic: 5-6-7: 'I wonder what she's going to do next?' counts as social play of a sort if people are keeping her around just to see what happens... Never came across as a strong physical competitor and sometimes seemed to play a main strategy card of staying out the way while the louder personalities in the tribe took each other out. Had a weird balance between lurking in the weeds and putting herself in the spotlight, but always had herself in the brighter aspect as a person instead of a player -- which meant just about no one had her registered as an actual threat until it was too late.

16. Fiji -- Earl Cole: 5-7-7: Almost had a Richard position in that you could argue he was just about the only player in his season -- and by working directly with the other actual contestant in the pool, eliminated his strongest threat (with a little help). Never manifested as any kind of challenge danger, didn't have to manipulate the game through a thousand loops when he was the only one on the course, and had very little to worry about in front of the jury because the one true social threat had just gone out and he was being accompanied by a pair of complete social idiots. (Yau's S rating is around 8 or 9. Cassandra had about a 4. Dreamz couldn't get to 3 on his best day.)

17. China -- Todd Herzog: 5-8-7: A true student of the game, but loses a point off his mental rating because of his insistence on endlessly second-guessing -- and sometimes coming close to undoing -- every. single. move. Had to be saved from himself more than the rest of his tribe, which nearly undid his social rating: it's as high as it is because he pulled himself together at the last minute, claimed credit and blame in equal measure in front of the jury, and found a way to make enough of them respect gameplay instead of going for the more typical 'you got rid of us and now you must pay'. Physically did just enough to get by: mentally and socially could have been one of the strongest players ever seen -- if only they'd allowed him to bring his mood swing meds.

18. All-Stars II -- Ozzy Lusth: 9-7-8: Came in knowing he had to fix the holes in his game, nearly punched one in his chances early on -- then came back to make not only a full recovery, but march to a total victory. Not only managed to stay in the game as a known challenge threat, whenever someone came up with 'Hey, isn't it about time to get rid of Ozzy?', had a credible 'no' in place waiting to counter it. Learned from his first experience and managed to use the skills from his original run, combined with a learning curve, to figure out what he'd done wrong and win the whole thing. Completely unlike the real one.

19. Micronesia -- Parvati Shallow: 6-5-6: Some physical ability (even a fake boxer has to get into some kind of conditioning), but her main mental talent was in taking credit for whatever someone else had truly done -- frequently badly. Not the most articulate of players and while able to make friends in her pool, had only two opinions about her from the group: acceptance or complete dislike, with no middle ground. While she did manage to participate and very occasionally co-launch the game's moves, spent most of her time with a 'who cares?' attitude regarding those around her -- and was just lucky enough to be next to someone whom some of the jury had decided they disliked more.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-08, 01:00 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: The PMS ratings."
I like your views of the winners. Reading your analysis, I see that I'm generous with the 10s! These DAWS are far from perfect.

I'd like to make 2 comments:

1- "Brian H: Played a divide-and-conquer game that we haven't seen before or since"

The way I look at it, Chris played the same game, without the numbers, that Brian played with them. They had as many side deals with other players and, while those deals should have, could have, cost Brian the game, it was Chris' separate deals with Twila and Julie that saved him.

2- "Stephenie... a self-made pariah"

Rob M was a self-made pariah, Steph had help: Rafe's strategy was to destroy Steph's game and he guided her down that path. Danni, I think, deserves a little credit for being the only one to see that Xhakum's (what a horrible tribe name!) leaders were working at cross-purposes and she jumped right in between them to boot Judd and Cindy.

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-08, 07:35 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: The PMS ratings."
On Brian vs. Chris: Fair enough -- I was looking at Brian as coming in from a position of dominance and Chris as the underdog making a last-second salvation play. But there's enough similarities in what they ultimately worked with to put a fair comparison on their games.

On Steph: You can give Rafe an aid/abet, but Stephenie never really had the insight to realize what her actions were doing to those around her. A brighter player might have said 'Wait. How many votes against me are sitting on that jury if we do this?' and looked for another way to move. Stephenie at least has to be given credit for looking at the pit Rafe took the lid off and yelling 'Deep hole from which there's no escape? Yay!' before happily jumping in.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-08, 11:25 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: The PMS ratings."
>"Stephenie never really had the insight to realize what her actions were doing to those around her."

All those Losers on her team mattered?!!

Rafe and Danni made her feel as if she was "Queen Steph" and that Lydia, Cindy and Judd were undeserving subjects.

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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-08, 12:15 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Y'see, a lot of people -- some people -- okay, one or two people wouldn't have fallen for that. But Steph had the budding All-Star Ego, which is kind of ironic for someone who came from Ulong...

I'm tempted to post a PMS thread to rate everyone in Micronesia, just to see how the numbers came out. It's pretty clear the strongest overall player didn't win (again), but seeing where everyone stood in comparison to each other would be like watching the anti-Darwin theory in action.

Then again, the whole casting process for the fans was anti-us, so I'm not sure what I'd be out to prove.

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XXL Survivor 131 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-08, 03:09 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: The PMS ratings."
Jason 9-1-1
Erik 8-0-7
Amanda 8-7-6
Parv 4-8-8 (after posting, I'll have to check if I match my prior rating for her)
Cirie 2-9-9
Nat 6-4-3
Alexis 6-4-5
James 9-5-7
Ozzy 10-7-6
Eliza 8-9-3
Jonathan 7-8-7
Chet 0-0-2
Kathy 3-0-6
Traci 7-8-6
Joel 8-4-1
Mikey 7-7-6

the rest didn't have enough sample size to work with...

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