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"Week 7 ECST"
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-26-12, 09:16 PM (EST)
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"Week 7 ECST"
LAST EDITED ON 08-26-12 AT 09:23 PM (EST)

Just wanted to make an ECST to talk about Frank's decision regarding nominations. First, I said in the live feeds thread that it showed his limited knowledge of strategy when I heard he had settled on Dan and Danielle and, after seeing the show, I'll add to it by saying he has no idea how this game works.

I wasn't quite sure how Ian's veto worked before seeing the episode but consider this: If Shane (or Britney) wins the 2nd veto then Ian can take Dan off the block, Shane saves Danielle (to her eternal gratitude) and then Frank has to make 2 new nominations...AND he can only choose between Britney, Jenn and Joe. So, who do you suppose Shane, Dan, Danielle and Ian vote for between Joe and Britney???? Frank is a dumbass that really doesn't deserve to still be there. How can he possibly think he can give an ounce of trust to Britney and Shane? Granted, a drowning man will cling to anything but he went for the anchor.

Frank HAD to nominate Dan and either Shane or Ian. The good thing about nominating Ian is that you force him to save himself. Now, even if Shane saves Dan, Frank can turn it around and nominate Britney and Danielle. Nominate Shane and you've put the big veto player in a position to use it on himself if he wins it.

BTW, what's with this new trend to behave like Troyzan when you get blindsided? Frank was yelling at Ian, not even knowing what had really happened, making a complete moron of himself.

I remember how shocked we were when Lex showed so little sportsmanship when he was backstabbed by Rob but, nowadays, players behave 10 times worse than Lex ever did. You got outwitted Frank, deal with it.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Week 7 ECST samboohoo 08-29-12 1
   RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-29-12 2
   RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-29-12 3
       RE: Week 7 ECST Round Robin 08-30-12 4
           RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-30-12 7
               RE: Week 7 ECST newsomewayne 08-30-12 9
           RE: Week 7 ECST newsomewayne 08-30-12 8
       RE: Week 7 ECST tribephyl 08-30-12 5
           RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-30-12 6
               RE: Week 7 ECST newsomewayne 08-30-12 10
 RE: Week 7 ECST mrc 08-30-12 11
   RE: Week 7 ECST samboohoo 08-30-12 12
 RE: Week 7 ECST Corvis 08-30-12 13
   RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-30-12 14
       RE: Week 7 ECST kingfish 08-30-12 15
       RE: Week 7 ECST Flowerpower 08-30-12 16
       RE: Week 7 ECST tribephyl 08-31-12 20
           RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-31-12 22
       RE: Week 7 ECST newsomewayne 08-31-12 21
           RE: Week 7 ECST michel 08-31-12 23
 Thursday's episode DearAbby 08-30-12 17
   RE: Thursday's episode michel 08-30-12 18
       RE: Thursday's episode DearAbby 08-30-12 19

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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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08-29-12, 09:23 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
"Britney, pop a squat." That might be the single funniest line of the season.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-29-12, 10:25 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
LAST EDITED ON 08-29-12 AT 10:34 PM (EST)

Ooops! double post. Weird.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-29-12, 10:33 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Wasn't he just imitating Ian who had used the phrase before when making his nominations?

We saw that Dan's plan was brilliant but it only worked because Frank is gullible. He was afraid of Britney having her hands in many cookie jars but how many jars have Dan's prints on them? If Shane or Ian wins the next HoH, Dan's back with them and Frank's the target.

To think, all this because Frank whispered the word "summer". How dumb. It could have given the veto to Dan if BB hadn't decided to replace the last question.

Has anyone noticed that Joe has become the biggest floater ever seen? I suspect that he will become bored at being forgotten and will act up just enough to put a new target on himself!


I remember the days when we asked for no siggies in the ECST! Good ol' days.

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Round Robin 2243 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 01:05 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Not a damn thing brilliant about it. It's a huge longshot, and even though huge longshots do occasionally come through, that doesn't make them brilliant. Frank is out of the next 2 HOH's, and Dan has to either lose the 1st of those, lose them both, or win the 1st and sit out the 2nd. Ergo, there will be at least 1 HOH who will have the chance to put Dan and Frank on the block against each other, if not both of the next 2 HOH's, and the only thing the 2 of them can do about it is try like hell to win the POV when it happens. And it will happen, because not even their allies will pass up the golden opportunity to put the 2 biggest threats in the house on the block together. No chance in hell of that. So brilliant it ain't, because it's gonna require luck on the order of a blind hog stumbling on an acorn for Dan and Frank not to wind up on the block together, and their luck has to run out sometime.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 07:48 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Entering solitary, Dan was dead. He comes out 24 hours later and he's moved down several slots in the pecking order. Brilliant tactic for sure. What else could it possibly be called?

Let's see if he can complete the deal.

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newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 08:44 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
I think Hell just dropped a couple degrees. We're agreeing on something!
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newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 08:43 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
It's a huge longshot, and even though huge longshots do occasionally come through, that doesn't make them brilliant.

Actually, that's exactly what makes them brilliant.

Besides, you're forgetting they have two ultimate weapons in their pocket. Frank has Grodner and Dan has The Mist.


Tebow Time is over. We prefer to win games in the 1st quarter.
Trade managed by GM Agman, 2012

I don't know why I imagine The Mist to be green.

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tribephyl 9688 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 03:15 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
We saw that Dan's plan was brilliant but it only worked because Frank is gullible.

Hence the brilliant moniker. If everyone could figure out the plan then it wouldn't work, so it's imperative you utilize the plan fully intending to dupe people. And just because Frank is the MOST gullible doesn't diminish the fact that the plan worked on EVERYBODY in the house.
He not only duped Frank but he duped Frank enough to dupe Jenn into giving Dan her veto. Danielle is now destined for the finals, Britney is on the block and determined to go home and Ian is everybodies target. What a remarkable difference from a mere 24 hours prior.

And to touch on RR's comments as well;
And it will happen, because not even their allies will pass up the golden opportunity to put the 2 biggest threats in the house on the block together. No chance in hell of that.

All I have to refute this is... EVERY single decision made in every season for the past 13 years. The Hamsters NEVER do the smart thing, never do the thing that seems most logical. They just plain don't do it.
CBS purposefully cast individuals whom are easily influenced. They do NOT cast clear thinking, seeing the Big-Picture people.
They just plain don't do it.

However, 'brilliance' as imagined having to possess longevity in order to be classified as being brilliant is kind asking for a lot.
IOW This move doesn't have to insure Dan's safety throughout the remainder of the game in order for it to be considered brilliant.
It would be different if we were calling Dan a brilliant player. (Only slightly, really. As through the 13 or so years of castmembers he definitely rises to the upper echelon of brilliant hamsters. A very small upper echelon.)

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 07:46 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
I don't deny the brilliance but, since it needed Frank to be this gullible, it gives it more of a Hail Mary type of play than a brilliant offensive strategy. You can win a football game with a Hail Mary but you won't be applauded for the strategy of it, mostly the luck.

Frank HAD to ask for something in return and that would have been putting Shane on the block but that would have lost Danielle. Dan's weakness may be in letting Danielle in on the plan.

"However, 'brilliance' as imagined having to possess longevity in order to be classified as being brilliant is kind asking for a lot.
IOW This move doesn't have to insure Dan's safety throughout the remainder of the game in order for it to be considered brilliant."

A strategy is an overall plan to get to the end so for it to be called a briliant strategy, it does have to get him to the end. For now, it's only a brilliant tactical move that won him a battle. Not bad at all but there's still work to do to win the war.

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newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 08:55 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
it gives it more of a Hail Mary type of play than a brilliant offensive strategy.

To carry on the football analogy, I'd liken it more to an onsides kick or a fake punt. Something done in the middle of a game to create momentum or near the end of the game to help pull victory from the jaws of defeat. I say this because, like the Hail Mary, while there is luck involved in success, there is also strategy in the timing and execution of the play.

In other words, Dan's play involved some luck but a whole lot of strategy in knowing what signals to send and to whom. If it had been a Hail Mary play, he'd have just sent out the same "save me and I'll be your humble servant" pleas every hamster gives when faced with Julie's boudroir bedroom and just hope that somebody on his team catches it.



Tebow Time is over. We prefer to win games in the 1st quarter.
Trade managed by GM Agman, 2012

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mrc 10020 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 09:13 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Say what you want--that was a great hour of TV last night, esp. if you didn't know the spoilers.
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samboohoo 17075 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 09:48 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Agree. I didn't know everything that had happened. I basically look at Jokers to find out noms, veto, and veto replacements. As I was watching and saw Jenn take the slop ticket, I had no idea how or why Jenn would veto Dan. The reactions and faces of Ian and Britney was awesome.

Yes, Frank may have copied someone somewhere, but I think it was funnier when Frank said it.


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Corvis 3116 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 11:52 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
There is no doubt it was one of the most brilliant moves in BB history. Dan was a dead man walking going into seclusion. Everyone knew it. He had no chance. Yet he managed to manipulate the entire house, creating sympathy for himself.

Then he convinced Frank to work with him. And honestly, I think it's in Frank's best interests too. Jenn will be loyal to Frank. She's never had an alliance with anyone in the game and now that she's made her bed, she's going to lie in it, even if the guy in it has crazy hair. Or maybe because he does. This move also gets rid of Britney, who other than Dan, is the one player who has both the strategic mind and the strength of self to pull off the strategy (Ian only has one of the two - I think you can figure out which one).

With Britney gone, we have Shane without his closest ally. We have Joe on an island, willing to throw in with whoever will get him another week. We have Danielle, who will do whatever Dan tells her to do. (How she could forgive his blatant manipulation of her emotions again... I just don't know. But she did and she will continue to do so. Dan has her under his spell.) And then there's Ian, who is not the master manipulator he thinks he is. He desperately needs someone else to be his backbone.

So if I were Frank, I would definitely want that situation with a strong 4 person alliance which can control things as much as any alliance can. Dan knows he can beat Jenn and Danielle in a vote and he is thinking he can probably beat Frank too (and after that move he did this week, he'll have an excellent argument to make to the jury) so he'll want to stick with the alliance. Frank has to be thinking the same thing - can argue he had the entire house against him and still made it to the end. So both of them would be smart to go the Final Four with this alliance.

The other option for Frank was get Dan out and trust Britney and Shane and Ian, who know they can't let Frank get near the end.

So really this was the best move for Frank and Dan.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 05:52 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
LAST EDITED ON 08-30-12 AT 05:53 PM (EST)

I think it's still in Dan's interest to get rid of Frank...or rather to let someone else remove his F2 obligations by going after Frank. That's why it was great for Dan that Frank bought into the "Britney has her hands in many cookie jars" ploy. Shane or Ian are more likely to take care of business.

Dan's move as I stated above, relied a lot on luck, on Frank buying it. Why didn't Dan already have a working relation with Jenn and Joe? The two were just there for the taking.

Dan could have gone to Jenn and said: "I know you're alone. I'm maybe not as alone as you are but I'm the first one they'd sacrifice if push comes to shove. I don't like that position at all. How about we secretly look out for each other?" If he had gotten to her before she talked to Frank then Jenn would simply have declined the year long slop pass and Dan would have saved himself. Then, from a position of strength, he could have gone to Frank and spilled the beans and gotten in the same exact position he's in now.

Strategy = Long term plans.

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kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 07:59 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
It was kinda like Moses going to the mountain and returning after 40 days of seclusion with stone tablets to save his people.

A self-oriented version of that.

And brilliant, relative to BB, is the word. Far out shines Dr. Will's stratagems and at least ties (IMO it beats) the Jase eviction.

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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 08:24 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Hiya Corvis, michel, Estee, and everyone: I just wanted to jump in here and add, last night was the best episode of BB that I can recall watching. Brilliant...and amazing, Dan was indeed. Frank was really an island. He was so ripe for comraderie.....even I could have seen it. Jen was smart to approach and align. Dan had to see the writing on the wall, but the way they pulled it off was just so perfect. Seeing Ian's face as well as Brittany's, and then Ian vowing to go after Frank....really? Ian get a clue! You were the turncoat, now face the music.

Shane could be manipulated in the future, especially if Brit is no longer around and his GF, Danielle, is with the new core 4...btw, did they come up with a name?
Yes, Frank has to sit out the next HOH competition, as well as the next, can he depend on Dan/Jen/Danielle to win it....I don't think so. It will be a miracle if they can get through the next 2 eliminations intact....I agree with michel....the battle was won, but I am not so convinced the war is over.


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tribephyl 9688 desperate attention whore postings
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08-31-12, 04:48 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Strategy = long term plan.
Okay, so in this case, with this cast, Danielle has the most brilliant strategy?
Boy, if someone's slightly delusional? I hope it's not me.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-31-12, 11:23 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
I don't think Danielle even knows how to plan ahead so I wouldn't call her a strategist. It's just that these games often reward the ones doing the least. It's not a bad idea but a boring way to play.

Look, I'm just going by the definition of the word and differentiating between a tactical move and an overall plan. I've seen some players win using more than simple tactics and I'd like to see more of it. Dan is close but a little bit of thinking ahead would have eliminated the luck factor.

He knew he had to pick players for the Veto and he even chose Jenn over Joe. A strategist would have talked to Jenn before the veto player selection.

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newsomewayne 9065 desperate attention whore postings
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08-31-12, 09:03 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
Strategy = Long term plans.

True, but no battle plan last past the start of the battle. Adaptation to the plan that still accomplishes the main goal is what makes the warrior successful.

Just because he didn't do what you would have done doesn't mean he has no strategy. Julie may be an idiot, but she did get it right last night when she said Dan is one of the best to ever play this game. Until he's on the couch with Julie, he's earned a little benefit of the doubt on questioning his actions.

At least, when it comes to furthering his game. The morality of those actions are completely up for bashing.


Tebow Time is over. We prefer to win games in the 1st quarter.
Trade managed by GM Agman, 2012

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-31-12, 12:02 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Week 7 ECST"
>Strategy = Long term plans.

>True, but no battle plan last
>past the start of the
>battle. Adaptation to the
>plan that still accomplishes the
>main goal is what makes
>the warrior successful.

While adapting one's plans is important, that isn't what determines the successful warrior according to The Art of War:

"to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans.
The next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces."

As soon as Frank won the veto last time, Dan knew that he'd be a target. It was easy to anticipate Frank's attack so Dan could have gone to him without the mascarade of his own Funeral. Had he talked to Frank BEFORE Frank won HoH, he could have prevented Frank's attack, balking the enemy's plan. His next best move would have been to prevent Jenn and Frank joining forces against him by aligning with Jenn first. Fairly easy strategy to foresee.


>Just because he didn't do what
>you would have done doesn't
>mean he has no strategy.

Of course it doesn't but his strategy relied on luck. Could he expect that Frank would be so stupid? Certainly but why risk getting so close to the precipice?

>Julie may be an
>idiot, but she did get
>it right last night when
>she said Dan is one
>of the best to ever
>play this game.


And I agree with Julie there because I've always said that the best BB players have been, in order, Will, Dan and, in a distant 3rd position, Maggie.
(I never saw Danielle's original season)
Doesn't mean Dan couldn't do better or that someone else couldn't best him.


>Until he's on the couch with
>Julie, he's earned a little
>benefit of the doubt on
>questioning his actions.
>At least, when it comes to
>furthering his game.

His actions were very good, I've admitted that but I think he could have done better.



>The morality of those actions are
>completely up for bashing.

See, I don't question the moral aspect of it at all.
Britney knew the rules of the game and she even tried to get an alliance going with Frank to save herself and Shane, letting Dan hang. Her problem was that she didn't offer any immediate gain to Frank. Promising future safety is nothing compared to what Dan gave to Frank: Inside information on the enemy, a plan to take them down and an alliance to the end.


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DearAbby 2959 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 09:07 PM (EST)
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17. "Thursday's episode"
Somebody please update! My station chose to show football tonight instead of BB.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 10:09 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Thursday's episode"
LAST EDITED ON 08-30-12 AT 10:11 PM (EST)

We saw Ian and Frank's battle of words, Frank saying it was weird trying to be tough in a carrot suit. dan heard everything from another room and it made him laugh.

Britney really lashed out at Dan, telling everyone that he was evil, calling him Judas in her final words before the vote. Danielle almost blew her cover when Brit talked bad about Dan but I don't think anyone realized her new position.

We saw flashbacks to season 12 and Brit's eviction by the brigade then we saw the 4 members of the brigade saying they were watching and rooting for Britney.

Shane and Joe decided they would continue to work together. Joe DRed that he promised loyalty to Shane last week and he'll stay true. Shane DRed that he didn't know what to do between his coach and his best friend.

Frank told Julie that he doesn't completely trust Dan but he will keep an eye on him during the next few weeks and could go to the end with him.

The vote was 4-1 against Britney, the audience letting a gasp of disappointment when Shane gave the decisive vote.

Britney was greeted with more cheers than I can remember for any evicted guest. She called Dan and evil genius, she said her alliance to Ian may have hurt her but she still likes "the kid".

The HoH contest was an endurance test: The players were standing on a disc held to the "ceiling" by a rope and they circled a big red ball representing the sun. The sun would spray orange paint to give them a tan. (Too bad Ashley wasn't there!)

Joe was first out and he will get a punishment for it (That's what the audience poll decided between reward or punishment. 49% voted to reward the weakest player. Go figure) Not sure if Joe found out it was a reward or a punishment because the sound was awful in that live portion. The next one down was Jenn so, as the faded to black, Danielle, Shane, Dan and Ian were left. It probably won't last long and Danielle better think of throwing this one.

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DearAbby 2959 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-12, 10:55 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Thursday's episode"
Thanks, michel. Or, to quote Frank, preesh!
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