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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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" Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version"
Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:04 AM (EST)
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" Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
This topic is spoiler free, and broadens an earlier discussion on how source spoilers should be treated in the Survivor Spoiler forum. Segregation or no? One non-spoiler topic or most spoiler free or mixed?Because the first topic was open to game spoilers, not everyone will have read it. I did it that way because I wanted to see how many people were around who would read it, which gave me an idea of whether there were enough people who will read source spoilers to make it worth discussing. Turns out there were. Spoiler Forum Protocol, Pt 1 A nice result of that topic was that several self-described lurkers came into posting mode. I will copy over posts from the other topic so you can see. No spoilers.
My original post:
Remember when we didn't post warnings that we were including spoilers in Spoiler forum topics? When we didn't need two topics to discuss episode teasers, or a third to discuss the season as a whole? When we could incorporate source spoiler knowledge in our analysis of vidcaps and teasers in the topics of the week? When we could vote and refer to future episode considerations? I do, and I miss that! Here are the current guidelines at RTVW concerning Spoilers.
_________ XI. KEEP "SPOILERS" IN THE SPOILERS FORUMS... OR OTHERWISE CLEARLY MARKED
Much of the discussion in this community revolves around "spoilers" -- known upcoming events in one of the TV shows that the discussion forums follow. However, some of the members of the RealityTVWorld.com community prefer to enjoy these shows without knowing about the upcoming events until they are broadcast. Therefore, for certain shows, we have created a special forum dedicated to spoilers (such as the "Survivor Spoilers Forum"). For those shows with a spoilers forum, please limit discussion of spoilers to that forum and do not post spoilers, or links to spoilers, in other forums. For those shows without a dedicated spoilers forum, we ask that you clearly indicate in the subject line of your post that the topic contains spoiler information and ensure that no spoiler content is revealed within the first 200 characters of your message body (since this text may also appear on the forum's topic listing page.)
------- The Guidelines are clear enough. Only for shows with no dedicated Spoiler forum is it necessary to put warnings in headings and clean up the beginning of the message body. It has now become the practice here, due to pressure from members who don't want source spoilers, to do the same in Spoilers. What this means to me is that I have to censor my knowledge and thoughts in most topics on this forum. Makes it really hard to have a conversation that isn't fragmented. I don't want to discuss how the season shapes up in the confines of a 200 post topic. It becomes too difficult when the topic is that long. But where are people to hide from source spoilers for Survivor? Well, there happens to be an entire forum where spoilers are banned -- Survivor Fanatics. A safe place for all. I started posting in Spoilers in 2001, 9 1/2 years ago. There were no limitations on posting spoilers -- other than if you spewed idiotic babble you would get flamed by Shakes the Clown. I have every respect for people's desire to remain unspoiled, and I have no problem confining spoiler knowledge to this forum. I don't understand why those who want to remain unspoiled are finding it necessary to put down spoiler folks as if we are too lazy to think for ourselves, and so forth. I look at spoiling the game a bit like having a conversation about current events and how they will affect the future. While I could try making predictions without any knowledge of what's up in the world, I'd rather not. I'm not trying to prove that I have psychic or predictive powers. I'm trying to use the best information I can get to figure out stuff that is still unknown. If I know the boot, yes it's boring to speculate about who's the boot. However, I'd still like to figure out who is the alt target, and why. I'd like to know who comes in second place in the individual immunity. There is still plenty to figure out each week, but it's getting hard to have a spoiling conversation here without feeling like I'm tiptoeing around a minefield. There are a number of folks choosing to go unspoiled recently whom I simply adore. I miss having conversations with them, but what can I do? With some posters, just the fact that I am known to follow source spoilers makes anything I say subject to scrutiny for content that is "under the influence." And I'm not ashamed of being influenced! I'm not vying for fame, and frankly I feel I have already proved my ability to spoil adequately in seasons where we didn't know anything. I spoke to Veruca about her wishes for the editing topic, and she told me that she always knew and expected that people posting in the topic would be posting under the influence of source knowledge, and she had no problem with that nor did she wish to exclude them. ALL she wished to exclude was the posting of actual spoilers. A very realistic goal, and one I have always respected. It is just not fun to post in that topic if some of the people in it announce they won't read anything written by posters XYZ. It gets in the way of having a group conversation. What if ABC want to incorporate what XYZ said in their post? It's gone too far, IMHO. Am I the only one who wants a Spoiler forum where spoilers aren't treated as the equivalent of spoiling the fun? There is no "Source Spoiler" forum, so that leaves a) Sucks; b) private boards; c) emails. Wow, I never thought I would consider Sucks as the better forum for spoiling the show. Despite my obvious bias, I'm definitely interested in hearing what you all think. I don't imagine I'm indispensable, and I know the forum will go on without me around. It is possible, though, that there is still a group of Blows posters who wants to spoil "by any means available" -- thus I bring it up. I hope it goes without saying that I defer to whatever the mods decide. I did PM all three of them, but that was three or more days ago and I didn't hear anything back yet. Perhaps they need more people to say that they want a ruling. Here are two current conversations in Fanatics on remaining unspoiled, to present the other side of the conversation:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID4/5014.shtml
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID4/5017.shtml
Reading these topics makes me feel akin to a toxic contaminant that got maliciously released into the community. But these topics also tell me that people who seriously want to remain unspoiled don't look at ANY topics in the Spoiler forum other than Editing, so all our efforts to segregate stuff in the rest of the forum don't matter to them. The segregation does matter to a third group who wants to spoil enough to be exposed to whatever spoilers are in play for the current week only. That group is my biggest concern, as I really would prefer that everyone is happy on the playground. 
End of the Innocence
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:06 AM (EST)
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1. "reposting earlier replies" |
kircon 10/19
_____________Thank you Outfrontgirl for voicing the thoughts in my head. I have been quite confused by the attitude of my friends also. I came to this site because of the SOTS. I could not sleep after my son took his life. This site was safe for me. I could not have survived Sucks. I spent time reading and lurking and spoiling on my own. I was not good at it but I fell in love with it. I determined that I would write a SOTS some day. I did! I believe the first three I wrote, I (we) got the boot wrong. I feel that I have matured as a spoiler. I have studied for many years. And this season, I decided to spend most of my energy on spoiling. However, like you, I feel like toxic sludge. I do not understand why it is evil to “want to know”. Nobody wants to write the SOTS’s because of so many rules. I have known the Boot List for the last few seasons. I have enjoyed each and every show. A lot of the time, I can’t believe how they got from point A to point B. Spoiling does not take away any joy or fun from watching Survivor. I feel for me it enhances it. I am having the same issues with the PTTE game. For seasons, I have been trying to work out how to make it a fair game. I came up with the idea of using PM’s this season. A green game. I thought about posting a game in the Fanatics forum for the unspoiled. But, we have a Game Forum for games.
What to do? My feeling is:
This IS the Spoiler Forum.
The SOTS could focus on weekly events but still link any important future spoiling with a warning.
I believe many come to read and gain insight for whatever reason.
It is called: State Of The Spoiling to report what we have found and discussed.
It includes total spoiling of the game and not just the week to come.
I am proud when Krautboy receives kudos from missyeye for good spoiling.
I love when TDT’s mentions us.
You and many others would be a great loss if you left.
I am not responsible for others lack of self-control.
Do not blame me if you click on a boot-spoiling thread and find out the final three.
I love Blows. It has played an important part in my healing from my son’s death.
I love the friends I have met.
I love to spoil!
I want to spoil "by any means available"
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:07 AM (EST)
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2. "samboohoo" |
samboohoo
I think the fact that you click on the link that says, "Spoilers Forum" should be enough to know you are entering a forum where there will be spoilers, no matter what they are.
I miss the old days of hard core spoiling, but I'm also in a position where I can't devote that much time to it.I always try to read the SOTS, I can't always read the SOTS. I come into Spoilers to look at Vidcaps, to look at clues, to read the SOTS. Some of the threads - especially the Missyae threads are so long, I don't have time to really get through them. So there are many weeks I go in knowing the likely boot, but still being surprised by something. I would love to read the editing threads, but I just can't.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:08 AM (EST)
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3. "GOOU" |
GOOU
wow - since the forum is titled "Survivor Spoilers Forum" it seems to me that everyone should understand there will be spoilers (whether sourced or educated, and very often correct, guesses based on detailed analysis)
I am definitely a "lurker" - have been for years - but this is my favorite site and I would hate for you "OFG" or any of my favorite contributors to move to Sucks or another spoiling site.Geesh - I hope this works out - I love to read everyone else's thoughts and observations (and even their comments on the sourced spoilers). Like the previous comment, I find it enjoyable to know ahead of time whose torch might be snuffed - for example, I had no idea why Tyrone would be the one going and was anxious to see what he might do during the episode to make the majority vote for him - I was not disappointed - the episode explained it. Anyhoo - please don't leave - I suspect there are many, many lurkers like me who enjoy all the comments but just don't post. I love this site!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:09 AM (EST)
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4. "Travelor" |
Travelor
I want to thank you for doing a section strictly for spoilers. For me personally, the show is so much more interesting when I know somewhat what is going to happen. I am relatively new to spoilers as I did not know they existed, but once I found such information it was a whole new world for me. Keep up the great work and I love this forum.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:11 AM (EST)
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5. "Snidget" |
Snidget:
I certainly don't want the spoilers to leave or feel the are contaminating the forum.
I do like when they don't announce the spoiler in the title of the spoiler because I use the "read new" and so I get all the headlines of all fora whether I want to be spoiled or not.I'm one of those that likes to be a little bit spoiled, but sometimes find there can be "too much" some seasons and it does become hard to be lightly spoiled when a bunch of people already knows every detail of everything and you shouldn't be expected to hold your tongue. So while I'm not avoiding spoilers completely, I'm lightly reading on occasion. I'm not keeping track of who is how spoiled so I tend to avoid whole threads rather than specific posters. I don't know how much of the drop off in ECST is from DVRing and how much from people just avoiding the spoilers forums all together, and you can't really put them anywhere else. Not sure how to get people to participate more. I like "talking" to people during the show, but it seems that isn't something people like to do anymore.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:13 AM (EST)
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7. "Snidget" |
Snidget:
Usually the only time we have a lot of issues with the spoiler headlines are more when there is something that uproars a bunch of newbies.
Most of the regulars are good about keeping the headlines pretty generic. That does make it a bit safer to pop in for an ECST or to look at the vidcaps and stuff like that. Mostly as the generic types of threads tend to get more discussion going than a way too specific headline.I don't care so much if people who know source spoilers refer to them in other threads as part of their discussion of things that happen in other threads. I don't think we have too many who just use their posting time to restate the source spoilers all over the place. Basically as long as the discussion is the main thing I don't mind some source spoilers showing up in other spoiler discussion. I mean I want to hear what you think, not just people parroting that such and so said such and such. It is nice to have a thread that collects all the spoilers from a particular source, but I don't feel that people need to pretend they never read that thread in the spoiler forum.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:15 AM (EST)
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8. "reply to snidget from OFG" |
Makes sense. A lot of times there is a reason to mention future spoilers in the argument. Bear in mind that for most of the season, it hasn't been clear at all how alliances would play out and why certain things would happen. In figuring out how things will go this week, spoiler peeps pull from the entire bank of spoilers.
Other times it is simply not useful to get involved in spec along certain lines because we know it doesn't go down like that.I don't gratuitously insert spoilers, and don't know of anyone here who does. The problem with not being able to talk about later in the game is it's a royal pain to only use partial logic, and I simply don't want to have that constraint. I feel the same way about the vote topic. Another thing that should be said is that missyae has not put out a boot list. He has said the boot during the week of ... Someone else spoiled the F3 -- ooberfan. missyae wanted to leave suspense on that, and has left suspense in a lot of things. Figuring out the boot order that I spec on in my sig line above has taken a heck of a lot of work, collective work. It has been everything that I consider spoiling, putting together nuances and clues to figure out the whole picture. It's hardly been a case of sit back and get told everything and have it handed over with a bow. Krautboy has done some particularly impressive work, but we've all done good. So I suppose that makes it more irritating to encounter the "I prefer not to have everything handed to me" line that has been in the air. The long missyae topic has been really difficult to work with -- very cumbersome. I like the idea of having one topic to collect the actual spoiler comments, but I think that our spec on those comments should be in separate topics. Actually, it would be a lot easier if we could label those topics. Sample topics -- (redacted, contained boot spoilers)
We shouldn't be trying to work out questions that could take up entire topics in the main spoiler compilation topic. It's just a nightmare tangle.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:16 AM (EST)
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9. "Snidget" |
I kind of assumed (bad I know) that the source spoilers this season gave everything away as that was how the last couple of season felt.
Hard to know if they are going to change their ways and leave something to the imagination this time when it seems that hasn't been the general source spoiler M.O. for awhile, at least collectively.That may be where the "I don't want it handed to me" is coming from. I can understand why a source spoiler might feel the need to prove they know all, or know more than someone else. It can be hard to balance the feeling people believe you know what you are talking about with how much is fun and how much is being a spoil sport. (and I do think there can be people that find being the spoil sport is what makes it fun for them. ) Add that and each person reading has their own line where they stop having fun and there is likely to be some blow back from a few seasons where things felt too spoiled for too many people. While I did enjoy the seasons even knowing too much (for me), I kind of am enjoying not knowing so much this season and I've not been seeking out info like I usually do.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:12 AM (EST)
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6. "Rayne" |
Rayne
OFG - Even though I am a lurker not a poster I totally agree with you. I used to love reading the editing thread just to "hear" people's thoughts. This season it seemed so venomous in there I stopped reading it. I explored all the boards about 5 years ago when I started watching Survivor and as soon as I stumbled on blows I felt like I was among friends even though I don't post often. Over the last 2 seasons it has become very petty and it seems like the posters here would rather argue than debate. I slowly see blows becoming more and more like sucks so I am even more tentative to post for fear of being ridiculed.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:17 AM (EST)
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10. "kiki_k" |
kiki_k
I have been a lurker here for years (I used to post a long time ago mainly in the Off Topic Forum but life has gotten in the way of that; I do enjoy lurking here, though).
However, I am taking the time to de-lurk to beg you to please keep spoiling here -- I can't abide those other spoiling
site(s) and this is the only place I like to go for spoilers. The spoiling by OFG, KB & others makes my viewing of Survivor much more enjoyable.Like others in this thread, I really don't understand the controversy -- this is the Spoilers Forum -- it is in the name. The Survivor Fantic and Survivor Basher Forums are for those who don't want to be spoiled (or so I thought). A solution may be to move Veruca's editing posts (which I love, btw, but on which I only read Veruca's posts because the thread gets too long, so I probably missed the fighting others in this thread have mentioned) the Survivor Fanatic Forum, because it isn't really a "spoiling" thread, it is more of a "speculation" thread. If it was in the Fanatics Forum people should be warned and/or know not to put spoilers in the thread. I hope this controversy can be solved because I would hate to lose this place, even though I only lurk. So, basically, I'm saying to OFG, KB & all the others who work so hard on spoiling Survivor on this board: keep up the good work! It is greatly appreciated even though I don't post.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:20 AM (EST)
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11. "Krautboy" |
Krautboy:Outfrontgirl, the fact you started this discussion and that the members of the SurvivorBlows have the common courtesy and respect for each others concerns and opinions is exactly why this has been my favorite board since I first started spoiling late S1. This is my spoiling home, and I am proud of the friends I have made, and the spoiling we have done here together over the years. The people who post here have created a culture that encourages common courtesy and respect, thoughtful spoiling, and a mutual interest in the same hobby. That should never change. The thing that has changed is the nature of the sourced spoilers, the amount of information provided and the reliability of it. Spoiling and speculation used to go hand in hand, without knowing for sure what was fact and what was rumor. Our speculation filled in all the holes between the occasional rumor of a sourced spoiler, but doubt was always present, and confirmation was always up to us. We were all "unspoiled" until the actual airing of the episode, when we found out if we had bragging rights or not. The last few seasons Spoiling the Spoilers is all we've really been left with, but for many, that was unsatisfactory and they chose to stay away from the Spoiler forum and go "unspoiled". "Spoiler Alerts" and warnings have evolved as a courtesy to allow those who are in the gray area between being spoiled and unspoiled, to continue to participate in this forum. It seems apparent now that while it was a nice gesture, it failed to satisfy the needs of either camp, and now no one is really happy because the rules are not clearly defined. I think the best solution would be for this Spoiler Forum to go back to being the place where spoilers, including sourced information, can be openly discussed without concern for the unspoiled. Those who chose to be unspoiled should steer clear of this forum, but continue to post freely in the other forums which are to be spoiler free, and clearly labeled as such. As for Verucasalts Editing thread and other spoiler free threads, they would probably be better posted in the other forums, where spoilers with sourced knowledge would still be able to read them, but encouraged not comment on them. If we need to include a "Spoiler Alert" at the top of each thread in this forum, as a courtesy, that's fine, but it would be nice to discuss and spoil freely without worrying about offending those who would prefer to remain unspoiled. Those who want to remain unspoiled, have the best chance of achieving that if they know where spoilers are being discussed and are clearly warned to avoid that place.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-10, 05:28 AM (EST)
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17. "Lolly" |
I'm late to the party, and I rarely post, but I would like to ditto KB's response.
*smooches*
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:21 AM (EST)
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12. "marebear79" |
marebear79Hear hear Krautboy! I am also a long-time lurker--I love this spoiling community and I don't go a week without catching up on all the threads here. I would hope that the fact that it is a spoiler forum would be enough to keep those who wish to remain unspoiled away from it. If they choose to read and then become spoiled, well-what did they expect? I hope that all of the wonderful contributors to this board remain--although I don't know any of you personally, I feel a connection with all of you as we discuss and analyze a show we all clearly enjoy and into which we have invested ten years of our lives!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:23 AM (EST)
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13. "Nightsky" |
Nightsky
I am also a long time lurker. I love the spoiling. I feel if someone does NOT want to be spoiled then they should not go on any survivor threads.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:24 AM (EST)
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14. "Squid Pro Quo" |
Squid Pro QuoIt's great to see so many newer posters participating in this thread -- I really hope all of you please stick around .
Seems to me there's a clear consensus that the main reason we all participate here is because of the congenial atmosphere and the excellent spoiling in a friendly (vs. flaming) environment. To me, that's what always set Blows apart -- and that's why it has felt kinda weird lately that there's been a bit of an "us vs. them" vibe (from only a few people) about those of us who are "spoiled" and how we can or cannot participate in certain threads. OFG, I agree, I'd love to see the Weekly Boot Discussion thread open to all spoilers. And we should be able to bring at least that week's spoiling info in to the Clues, SOTS and Vidcap discussions as well. Also, I noticed recently that Sucks has a "Speculation" Forum -- just wondering if we need something like that here at Blows for those people who want to do their own spoiling but stay "pure"? Or is Fanatics enough? Maybe that's a separate discussion for the Fanatics thread. Thanks again for bringing this conversation out into the open! P.S. Kircon, your post really touched me. I've had several losses this past month so I know how having an outlet like this can help take your mind off things.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:26 AM (EST)
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15. "Reefhopr" |
Reefhopr
I used to go to Sucks but got tired of the constant disrespect shown to people and the language. So I started coming to Blows and have never regretted the decision!
I don't mind spoilers in the least and I can understand people that don't want to read spoilers. However, if they want to read other postings in Blows, they are and have always been clearly marked. Part of this site after all is for spoiling!There are so many people on here that have amazed me with their spoiling abilities because I am the world's worst spoiler which is why I lurk. Everyone here makes the site enjoyable whether there are flat out 'this this and this will happen' spoilers or if you all figure it out yourself. So keep up your usual great work and thanks for making Survivor my 'never miss' show of the week!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:27 AM (EST)
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16. "Smoochie" |
Smoochie:As you can see I don't post often, but have to agree with many here. I have been lurking here for I don't even know how long and would hate to see it change. It's a spoiling site and that's why I come here, be it a more confirmed spoiler or speculation based on available spoilers. I choose which threads I read and how closely I'll follow them. I originally found Sucks but, honestly, can't stand that site and the time it often takes to sift thru the flames, insults and garbage to find something worth reading.
For what it's worth, I love, love, love the editing thread by Veruca and others and read it all every year, amazing what they see and I miss weekly! However, if those in it choose not to be spoiled or don't want to be spoiled to read it, maybe it would be better served posted in a different forum as it is purely speculation based on the show as it airs and the editing, not influenced by any spoiling. Just my 2 cents!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:29 AM (EST)
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18. "Brownroach" |
And yet *another* someone who never posts on this board has responded specifically to this thread. This is great, I do expect to see all of you contributing to the spoiling from now on, since you feel so strongly about this. Smooches!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:30 AM (EST)
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19. "Lolly" |
I started reading SB not long after Webby (along with the Ayatollah and maybe Sleeeve, too, IIRC) graciously set up the site as a safe haven for Sucks-abused fans of the new reality show. I'm sure Ayak can set me straight on that. *grin*
I'm primarily a reader. Frankly, my brain works too slow to contribute much. I have contributed in other forums, but it's insignificant.You guys are amazing and I love to read your insights. I took a two-year hiatus from Survivor and started back with this season. The Spoiler forum is my home base, the place I always go to first when I come here. Throughout the years, the place changed: people come; people go;the game changed;and spoiling evolved. When I came back from the hiatus,however, it seemed to me that the Spoiler forum had devolved. As I said before, KB succinctly expresses my response to OFG's questions. Yes, I do feel strongly about the issues OFG presents to the community. And I probably should be more vocal in expressing my deep appreciation to all of you who share your clever brains with the rest of us. But, darlin', if you insist, I will make a contribution . . . somehow. Most of the time the only thoughts I have are "Hmmmmm," "Yeah," "Huh?," and "Jeez, s/he is brilliant." *grin* muchas smooches
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 05:31 AM (EST)
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20. "Grit" |
I never post in Spoilers - well, except for today.
I read Spoilers a lot.I'm an adult - I know that spoiler information exists in the Spoiler Forum. Anybody who complains that they read spoiler information in the Spoiler Forum should be mocked unmercilessly. I like to know who goes home each episode or who wins the entire season in advance because I love to watch how the editing unfolds. I hate it when the editing strings you along - I like to be on the inside of what they're showing us. So, people, keep spoiling for me. I may not be posting here but I'm enjoying everything I read.
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11-07-10, 05:32 AM (EST)
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21. "Brownroach" |
BrownroachSince this thread is still more or less open, something occurred to me that I thought I'd mention.
First of all, I agree the warnings are out of hand -- I mean the idea that Kircon felt the need to post a warning on the SOTS thread is comically absurd. To me, warnings are unnecessary in this Forum, but I think they initially served another purpose in the source spoiler threads. If you title a thread "The So-and-So Spoilers" it's obvious what's in the thread, but I think the warning just became an easily-remembered way to open the thread to ensure that nothing spoilerish would leak onto the index page, where it can't be deleted. So if people want to continue to use it for that purpose in the source spoiler threads, then fine. As long as spoilers aren't posted in a way that they're visible on the index page, I feel that's a sufficient accommodation to the folks who don't want to know everything. My feeling is that those folks have already decided which threads they are and aren't going to read anyway.
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11-07-10, 05:33 AM (EST)
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22. "CTgirl" |
Ditto. Well said BR.
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11-07-10, 05:34 AM (EST)
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23. "Outfrontgirl" |
CT, I guess if you opened this thread you are OK with the season spoilers. Good, you were one I was most concerned about.BR, to go back to a problem that doesn't relate to the topics of threads:
a perception has emerged that weekly episode related topics won't have spoilers going beyond that week. I have had at least two vocal complaints this season in such topics when there was a mere mention of a later development that we know from spoilers. So my question is, do we just go back to having all threads but Editing spoiled equally? I would vote for that. The vote topic as well? I would like that too. Sometimes the reason I would vote for so and so this week is that this other person goes next week. How do the rest of you feel about vote topic reasoning? Like BR, I find it very cool that you guys who are normally readers are posting. I hope you know that just because some of us (like me) like to talk a lot, doesn't mean we don't welcome other voices. OTOH, I totally get just liking to read, as there are forums that I read but am not even registered.
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11-07-10, 05:36 AM (EST)
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24. "LFJ" |
The distinction of "Source Spoilers" is a helpful red flag for those who like to do it themselves.
Some of the people that contribute to this forum have unique, artistic methods of evaluating/analysing the material presented to them vis a vis the Vidcaps, Editing, Titles - all of the minutiae that is involved in an Episode. They prefer to think their way through the episode based upon the particular talents they bring to the Forum, as opposed to accidentally stumbling upon a copy of a post from another forum that details the boots.When I first started reading the "spoilers" a few years ago, the SOTS was my favorite thing to read. It was entertaining to see someone lay out all of the "evidence" and from that, extrapolate a boot. Now, not so much fun. "Time To Vote" was also fun to read, to see who was voting for what player. Now, everyone (almost) votes for the same player. I loved the Editing Thread. You don't see many posts from the talented Spoilers on a lot of the threads anymore because there IS so much pollution (Missy, BW, TDT, etc.) copied onto these threads. I understand why some of the posters want to maintain their "innocence", if you will, for lack of a better word, and think that this "Source Spoiler" type warning is the best way to mitigate the situation. This allows everyone to enjoy the Forum in their own way. Rather than confine a lot of the really good analytical minds to one or two threads, why not keep the "Source Spoilers" safely tucked away in one place? Like this? Remove | Alert
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11-07-10, 05:38 AM (EST)
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26. "Outfrontgirl re LFJ" |
>>> Rather than confine a lot of the really good analytical minds to one or two threads, why not keep the "Source Spoilers" safely tucked away in one place? Like this?If it were working to do that, I wouldn't have started this topic.
If a topic is source spoiler free, that means that we can't use the best available evidence and generally don't take the topic to the level that interests me. People are working to figure out stuff that I already know, and while they may enjoy that, I don't, and neither would most spoilers. Spoilers by nature are looking for a challenge. In order to start with what we know and figure out the next level. we have to start a separate vidcaps topic, teaser topic, interview topic, blog topic, etc.. It's way too clunky. As for the season-long source spoiler topics, they become too long and convoluted to navigate very quickly. There's a reason that we start new spoiling topics for each episode. The result of these restrictions is that people who are spoiled may prefer to just use emails or set up private forums where it's not necessary to deal with complaints. My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?
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11-07-10, 05:41 AM (EST)
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28. "dabo RE: Outfrontgirl " |
>>> My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?Webby and the blues are entrusted to enforce bans on spoiling in designated forums such as Fanatics. Why should anyone risk violating those bans simply because they are avoiding source spoiling? Where is it written that analytical spoiling is not spoiling? While it is true that not everything analytical is spoiling, this is the forum for spoiling regardless of whether that spoiling employs rumors, leaks, hoaxes, analytical tools, vidcap analyses, game theory, astrology, airplane/hotel reservations, yadda yadda yadda. I think you have reached the point where you should open this discussion to all concerned.
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Oingo 9 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 10:05 AM (EST)
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41. "RE: Outfrontgirl re LFJ" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-10 AT 10:27 AM (EST)Sorry, newbie mistake. I moved the post in accordance with the request in the last post of the string.
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11-07-10, 05:40 AM (EST)
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27. "LFJ re Outfrontgirl" |
>>> My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?"Well...obviously nothing, if, they want to. I don't see many, if any of their names here. When they do post in Spoilers, it is on specific threads, like Editing, Vidcaps...where they are not apt to stumble upon copies of Missy/BW/TDT spoilers.
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11-07-10, 05:37 AM (EST)
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25. "Chez" |
I too read spoilers a lot but don't post too much because I am not very good at spoiling.
Some of my friends who watch Survivor can't understand why I like to read spoilers and know ahead who is (most likely) going home, or going to win the game. One reason for me is I was so, so, so disappointed in the seasons before I found this board at who won the game that I practically hated Survivor. This was in Marquesas and Thailand. I was extremely disappointed at both those winners.Then during Amazon I discovered this board, and gained the insight of Chill One. I still was not a fan of the winner that season but knowing ahead of time helped me to brace myself. Then there have been the seasons where I was hoping against hope that an unlikely but "heroic" outcome would occur (the Aitu 4 in Cook Island), and I enjoyed resting more easily by knowing it would work out against all odds. It's strange, I love reading mystery books and thrillers, but I never read the last page before I get to it. In fact sometimes if I think something exciting is going to be revealed on a page I'm reading, I will block it out with a piece of paper so I'm forced to read 1 line at a time. Oh, well, guys, keep it up.
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11-07-10, 05:42 AM (EST)
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29. "Round Robin" |
For Pete's sake, this is the freaking spoilers forum. When you see that word in the title, you oughta know you might encounter spoilers of any type here, and if you want to guarantee 100% that you avoid all source spoilers, there are other forums both here and elsewhere where no spoilers are allowed. A forum that is specifically titled the Spoilers Forum should be open season for all spoilers, and non-spoiler topics should be posted elsewhere, and those of us who want to post or read spoilage should not have to walk on eggshells here. End of story.
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11-07-10, 05:43 AM (EST)
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30. "dabo RE: Outfrontgirl " |
daboIt doesn't bother me when I encounter those spoilers, I expect it. I am ignoring missy and source spoilers in general this season for one reason: I am responsible for how I have my own fun around here. So much detail has been coming from sources the past year or so that it has taken some of the fun out of the hunt, the pastime of spoiling. But, as I say, I do expect to encounter some of that, it is pretty much unavoidable, always has been. On the other hand I am fully aware that source spoilers are not absolutely reliable; Roger never broke his leg falling from a horse, except maybe for the wooden kind he never even got near a horse, thank you Uncle Cameraman. The conversation on this thread by design, by OFG's intent when she started this thread, excludes almost everyone except those who are paying attention to source spoilers. Most people aren't going to bother to figure out that source spoiling isn't really the topic here, it's pretty safe to switch to expanded mode and bypass OFG's initial post to follow this thread; most people avoiding source spoilers are going to just see the warning and be warned away. Fair enough. This is pretty much an exclusive thread, and it is nice to see so many people showing up in support of OFG and source spoiling. If, however, this conversation is going to degenerate into some lunacy regarding what is and isn't valid spoiling, in fairness that conversation should not exclude anyone. But let's be clear, also, that the administration of this site is self-empowered to determine what is and isn't spoiling, that it is so empowered for the sole purpose of keeping spoiler-free certain forums here where spoiling is banned. Is spoiler-intended analytical speculation not spoiling? This is divisive. I would prefer to see the posters of Blows come together, to understand that everyone is responsible for having their own fun around here, different strokes for different folks, live and let live.
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11-07-10, 05:46 AM (EST)
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31. " Outfrontgirl RE: dabo " |
(redacting discussion on starting a new topic)In response to your "everyone is responsible for having their own fun around here" thought. 1) I thought I was taking responsibility for that by choosing to post mainly in a Spoiler forum. 2) It is one thing to "play" amidst spoilers and semi-ignore them or take them with a grain of thought. It's not comparable to being put in the position where my analysis has to be altered in order to censor out stuff that is integral to my thinking -- which is what has been happening more and more over the last three seasons. I'm willing to do that in the Editing topic, but not the balance of the forum. 3) Analytical thinking is not spoiling in the sense that is discussed in spoiler bans. A spoiler is a (claimed) piece of knowledge about what will happen on the show, that comes from someone who has obtained that knowledge from some source other than thinking about the show. Analytical thinking is speculation that may be right, part right, or dead wrong. Whether previews, interviews, and press releases (and the analysis thereof) are considered to break the "no spoilers" ban depends on the forum guidelines. I don't post in Fanatics much, so I can't say what the rules are there. While I understand your community-based POV and your desire to see an all-inclusive space, I truly think you are pushing that desire too far. This site has many forums, and the basis for dividing it into forums is to allow people to specialize and focus the discussions. Show forums are not like OT, where the ideal is to have an all-inclusive community. Shows with multiple forums have multiples so that people can hang out with others who have the same approach to being fans. Some gush, some bash, some want to know what is going to be on the show before it airs. The organization of this board reflects the idea that fans are happiest if they have different playgrounds. Also, any one can choose a different playground at any time. Messing up the dividing lines between the forums does not make for more fun, IMHO.
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11-07-10, 05:48 AM (EST)
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32. "Outfrontgirl re LFJ" |
An example of a clash from today:
______________
kiki_k 815 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
11-04-10, 05:33 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Ep 8 Vidcaps"
LAST EDITED ON 11-04-10 AT 08:17 PM (EST)
I'm pretty sure missyae said Brenda wins one IC -- I'm pretty sure this is the one she wins. eta: to take out boot list spoilers.
Slider 17 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
11-04-10, 07:05 PM (EST)
6. "RE: Ep 8 Vidcaps"
Hey,TMI. Not all of us in this thread want to know the next 2 boots.
______________ (OFG) kiki obligingly edited, but why should that be necessary?
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11-07-10, 05:54 AM (EST)
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33. "Spot The Difference" |
kiki obligingly edited, but why should that be necessary?
Not sure if this was meant to be rhetorical, but I'd like to express my opinion anyway.I've been reading spoilers, both sourced and unsourced, throughout this season. I also understand that this is a spoilers forum and that there's bound to be spoilers lying around. That said, I fully understand Slider's post, and depending on the boot list that kiki posted (I didn't see it), might even agree with Slider. The topic in which the boot list was posted was a vidcap thread. While there aren't any rules prohibiting sourced spoilers from being posted there, I also think that people who do have sourced spoilers should know that not everyone who reads through a vidcap thread is source-spoiled or wants to be source-spoiled. Some people want to browse through a vidcap thread because they want to look at pictures, analyze pictures, and figure things out for themselves. When a boot list is inserted at some random spot in the thread, then yes, it can be TMI, even for a spoilers forum. Am I suggesting that there be two separate vidcap threads? No. Too much effort. What I'm suggesting is that for threads such as these, a fair warning at the post title and a bootlist written in invisible ink might help. Sourced spoilers can still be viewed, but not necessarily by people who don't want to see them. Peace.
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11-07-10, 05:56 AM (EST)
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34. "kiki_k" |
All I wrote was that since missyae said Brenda wins one IC & that (small spoiler redacted). I don't think that is "posting a boot list" but whatever -- I'll be more careful. I don't think it should be neccessary in a SPOILERS FORUM but I'll do it, because I'm not a jerk.
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11-07-10, 05:57 AM (EST)
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35. "SpotTheDifference RE: kiki_k" |
I apologize, then. I never meant to pinpoint you or anyone in particular. Like I said, I never saw what you posted, and I never should have assumed that you posted a boot list. A boot list is what I would personally qualify as TMI.
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11-07-10, 05:58 AM (EST)
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36. " kiki_k RE: SpotTheDifference" |
I apologize too if I came off harsh towards you. I don't want to make a big to do about this, because I don't want anyone to think I was actually upset about Slider's post. I wasn't & I did edit my comment in case anyone else felt like Slider does. But, in the context of that particular thread re: who wins immunity, I admit I didn't think about "spoiling" the next 2 boots as much as I was trying to make the case for Brenda having to win IC at F11. I really don't want to upset people on this board because I love this place and I sincerely meant it when I wrote that I will try to remember that not everyone knows who is going next, etc. & will be more careful.And please remember, I'm not guaranting perfection, only effort.
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11-07-10, 05:59 AM (EST)
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37. "Squid Pro Quo" |
No worries, Kiki! You didn't do anything wrong, and like you said, it is a spoilers forum after all. I think OFG is just using this specific example to show how some people don't want any mention of sourced spoilers and how we need to get clarity because the current situation isn't really working for anyone. We can't walk on eggshells and pretend like we don't know what we know. (If that makes sense )
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11-07-10, 06:01 AM (EST)
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38. "Squid Pro Quo RE: Spot The Difference" |
Spot, I definitely see your point about posting a boot list in the middle of a vidcap thread, but I don't think that's what happened in the example OFG mentioned. I believe it just mentioned the names of the next 2 possible boots. Many people think that all spoilers are fair game in a Spoilers Forum but others don't want Sourced spoilers, or maybe only week by week? As specific examples come up, I guess it shows that where we draw the line might differ.OFG, as I recall, did someone suggest that we only talk about the coming week's boot in the vidcaps and clues threads? Or was consensus that anything goes?
Looks like there's still not clarity and perhaps we need to communicate more widely now? I'm not sure where we landed -- are we still figuring out what the "rules" are? Can posters decide on the rules, or do the Moderators have to make/approve any changes? (Not sure if what's being proposed is really even a change -- maybe it's just in keeping with the original rules.) Also, were you still planning to open the discussion to people in Fanatics as a next step?
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11-07-10, 06:02 AM (EST)
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39. "LFJ re Outfrontgirl" |
I am just throwing my 2 cents worth of observation in here - maybe not the perfect spot, but, here goes.*ahem* BM (Before Missy, just as a point of reference), everyone on this forum would contribute here and there to most of the discussions. With the exception of Veruca (possibly one or two others), I would see WAAAAAAAAAY more posts from people who enjoyed the community effort of figuring out the boot. It was more like a Mystery Murder dinner party, if you will. For instance, the SOTS, while always well written and entertaining (my personal favorite read of the week) were frequently wrong, but, who cared? Coming to the wrong conclusion was just as much fun as getting it right (maybe not for the author). The same thing was true of "Vote". The Vidcaps and the Editing thread had NO spoiler info in them. It was pure conjecture. My, my, my...how things have changed. Personally, I don't care one way or the other if I find spoiler info in a topic, as I am not that invested in this forum. That being said, I cannot help but notice (I am a professional observer) the decline of posts and posters in many of the threads since I first started "lurking" here. This could be, in part, because people don't feel their contributions are necessary, or worthwhile, while others, like me, have simply decided to read a couple of lines, find out the boot, and then quietly go away. Again, I don't have time to read everything, or even watch the episodes - sometimes days after they have aired. However, I know this has been a topic of discussion before, and I can't help but think that lots of fun and talented people are "confining" themselves to one or two threads. I am not saying the is a "fault". It is more like a natural consequence of having introduced sourced spoilers into the Forum. Maybe they have been here for a long time, but they certainly have not been the foundation of most of the discussion in these threads. The Forum has mutated from a Forum of speculation and analysis into a Forum for the purposes of dissecting what Missy (and other sources) has written, when it was written, how a question was posed, how it was answered, copies of the exact date and time, etc. Sort of like a virus spreading through the Community. Once you know something...you can't unring the bell. You will sometime, somehow, no matter how you try to suppress it, let that knowledge slip into a "conversation". This is especially easy for someone who is posting on many threads - jumping from one topic to another, and forgetting where they are, and losing awareness of who their audience may be. I think this "Warning" - Source Spoilers Here" alert is likely as good a way to manage it as any - perhaps the invisible ink? Unless, people can confine their posts to the appropriate thread, this kind of dust-up will continue to occur (not to say anyone did anything wrong).
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11-07-10, 06:07 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
OK, I've now posted the prior feedback on the topic as Replies to the 2nd post, leaving folks free to reply to the first post (or this post with fresh input.Please please do not reply to the copied over posts, as it will make this a big mess.
So to be clear, the subject heading shows who made the post, and if it says RE so and so after the name, that shows to whom the poster made the reply. I left out the OT remarks and most of the discussion about starting a new topic. I hope everyone who was curious before will put in their feedback. 
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Oingo 9 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-10, 10:30 AM (EST)
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42. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
Hi, I also have read the fora since about season 2. Having started reading them all, I have made this my home base because of the atmosphere of basic respect, consideration of others and lack of flaming. Also, I enjoy reading the intelligent comments from some really great strategic thinkers who are here. Thank you OFG for seeing the controversy and opening a discussion about it. It's an example of the basic respect people here will show. That being said . . . when the boot list is known, or when a comment contains text like "well, since we know XX person is going to be booted this week, then the clue must really mean YY happens." It -- for lack of a better choice of words -- it spoils the spoiling for me. I agree with Snidget in that I like what you might call "light" spoiling: speculation, logic, analysis, working from information that is publicly released in previews, vidcaps, promos, teasers. I agree with LFJ in that for me, threads like SOTS, voting and ECST that used to be my favorite are now off-limits. And I miss them. This week, even the vidcap thread had a post in it saying something like "well, we know XX person gets booted this week so maybe this is how it happens." Gee. <<sigh>> Do I have to give up the vidcaps now, too? To be fair, the person posting simply didn't see it as an issue and when it was mentioned the post was edited. Again, a considerate thing to do, thank you. "My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?" Well, for me anyway, it's the fact that there is very little content there. There is a love/hate list. No vidcaps. No webpromo shots. No Survivor Insider transcripts. No list of future titles from TVGuide. No teaser transcript. No "time to vote." No discussion of bootee comments made in interviews. No discussion of Jeff's blog or other blogs. No speculation. No analysis. No strategy discussion.
It's not enjoyable. And I predict that if this content were to show up in the fanatics' forum, we'd be having the same discussion only it would be between the uber-purists and the source-spoiler-free, speculation / analytical types. I agree with Squid in that maybe the right answer for this is to have a speculation forum that is free of source spoilers. It would need to have equivalent substantial content in it, though, not just the editing thread. So my vote is to CONTINUE having duplicate threads on the same topics -- but segregate them into different sections of the forum.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-10, 10:56 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
Not your fault. At the end of the day I know we may not be able to accomodate everyone, but we do want a happy spoiling playground here.
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Round Robin 2914 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-10, 02:36 AM (EST)
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45. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
Since I don't post nearly as much as some of you, I don't have as big of a dog in this fight as some of you, but trust me when I say that having to walk on eggshells is no d@mn fun, and on other boards I follow where this problem has arisen I post a hell of a lot less than I would otherwise because I get sick and tired of all the d@mn beyatching and whining you see without fail every time somebody reveals some bit of information, even when it is wholly inadvertant. It is d@mn difficult not to occasionally screw up and accidentally reveal what you know, after all, once you know something you cannot un-know it, and I don't think people deserve to catch a bunch of crap from the spoiler-free crowd when they inadvertantly reveal something. Yeah, if the same poster is repeatedly careless about his/her posting or deliberately makes no effort not to screw up, that's one thing, but for the spoiler-free people to angrily jump somebody's case over every little revelation is just as rude as deliberate carelessness. This is a TV show, it ain't the end of the world if you know something, but if people keep making a federal case over this source spoiler business, that's a surefire way to drive away good posters like OFG and discourage others from posting more, and if we let this fighting get carried too far and the good posters who do all the heavy lifting all leave because the spoiler-free posters ruin their fun with all the complaining, nobody will have any right to complain if things get a little sparse around here.
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11-10-10, 08:50 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
I have been away for the past two weekends and failed to chime in here. But, thanks to a little birdie,  , I discovered this thread. Not that I need to, but I thought I would like to give my 2 cents worth. As many, I have been around for a while now. I feel that warnings at the top of the threads are not necessary, as the posts in the Spoiler Forum, they contain spoilers. If folks don't want to know, then I agree, they should stay away from spoilers. The Spoiler Forum is specifically a safe place to discuss anything that could be considered a spoiler. We are so lucky to have folks interested in seasons where so much material is available, that still want to uncover as much as possible. Please, I hate it when their efforts are bashed. I want to enthusiastically welcome them here, and allow them the freedom to spoil away. I understand the game may not be as fun as it once was, I too have struggled to stay interested this year, not only with the spoiling but with the cast as well, but I have faith my interests will pick up with the next season. I know that when I go in the spoiler forum I may run into a boot list, or any other type of info that could be considered spoiling. The Spoiler Forum is the appropriate place to spoil away. If you don't want to know, than restrict your entry in to the forum. Just my 2 cents.
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suzzee 5961 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 03:40 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
After reading the posts here and in the "Restore sanity" threads I gotta say that the name "Spoiler Forum" should be enough of a description and warning. In order to get VS's The Players edit thread without seeing topics a simple shortcut on my desktop serves me well. It seems wrong to have spoilers or those that want to know having to tip-toe in their own house. I'm saying let it rip spoilers, unspoiled folks go in at your own risk. Really if you don't want to know then have a bit of self-restraint. Fanatics is for unspoiled, post there if you got something to say. Go look at vidcaps at S.Phoenix if going to Spoilers might tempt you to peek. There isn't any reason spoiler info shouldn't make an appearance in the vidcap thread in Spoilers either. I for one will be reading the Spoiler Forum for weeks after the finale. Don't water it down with restrictions for Spoilers who spend quite a bit of time and effort finding things that support what is "known". With the exception of the historic "Players, Game and Editing" thread which is speculation and should remain where it is I love spoilers. It's why I lurked for several seasons. The Forums are named correctly just expect what's in there to be what it says on the door. Dabo's efforts to allow voting without entering was very accommodating and appreciated (when I can flippin remember to vote)thank you much for going the extra mile for us. I love to play the games (ok,I svck at them but that's another story) but I go as far as the reply button because it can be a little obvious as time gets close who the pariah is going to be for that episode. PS: I'm winning kircon's green PTTE game (I should point out I'm the only one entered this season though.) If I do get a little spoiled, meh, I deserve it and sure won't whine about it. As Seinfeld said, "I'm the master of my domain." 
A Tribe masterpiece
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Corvis 3130 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 04:05 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
You know, I don't think anyone is "whining" about the spoiler forum being what it is. (Every time I've mentioned that I got spoiled, I specifically said I know it's my own fault and don't blame anyone.) Dabo started a thread asking for people's input on the subject. Some of us offered our take on it. If the Spoiler forum continues to include source spoilers in every thread, that's cool. It's called Spoilers - I think every one gets that. I think what Dabo was trying to do was increase participation from all the people who left because of source spoilers. Which is a noble goal. I have my doubts about it working, but you gotta give the guy credit for trying. It all comes down to what type of spoiling is fun for you. For OFG and others, knowing who gets booted is just one piece of a bigger puzzle that's fun to try to figure out each week. For me, knowing the boot ruins the experience and so for someone like me, the current Spoiler forum is not fun. Neither position is right or wrong - it's just the way it is. Can those two groups live together in the same forum? I have my doubts. Not because the people involved aren't good people, but because of the very nature of what equals fun for each group.
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 05:07 PM (EST)
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49. "Vidcap Analysis...Common Ground?" |
Corvis: I have spoiled with you over the years and have great respect for your spoiling ability and analytical skills. I think everyone would agree that spoiling was much more fun before the days of Sourced Spoilers, but we've tried to adapt and make the best of it. Some chose to go unspoiled, others accepted the information and changed the focus of their spoiling efforts.It seems to me that Vidcap Analysis is a common ground where both camps can come together and enjoy a more traditional kind of spoiling. Back in the day, Vidcap Analysis was all we had and formed the foundation for the speculation with which we filled in the holes. I still think it can't hurt to try spoiling together, as we try to identify places where CBS slipped up and let out perhaps more information than intended. It would take a little discipline and courtesy, but it could still be fun if we agree to focus on the vidcaps and refrain from discussing information obtained by other means. Those who want to take the clues gleened from the vidcap analysis
and combine it with sourced spoilers can do so in the other threads that are not a "Spoiler Free Zone". This way we all benefit from each others observations, without driving away the very people we want to enjoy the show with. If we can get this to work in the Vidcap Thread, then we may be able to find other common ground, where the spoiled and unspoiled can enjoy the show together. I'd like to volunteer, (if it's OK with FloPo) to start next weeks vidcap thread as a "Spoiler Free Zone", and I hope as many of you as possible, will participate in this experiment.
Krautboy
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 06:03 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Vidcap Analysis...Common Ground?" |
I would like to second what Krautboy said. I think the vidcap analysis is the best place for compromise (and that is what I have been looking for). No way is going to be perfect, but it is worth a try. Thanks for doing this KB.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 06:49 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: Vidcap Analysis...Common Ground?" |
Yes yes yes! Very well put Krautboy. As I said in the other thread there is hardly any source spoiler info being posted in the vidcap threads anyway, so I think this should be able to work.
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LFJ 363 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 08:08 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Vidcap Analysis...Common Ground?" |
I'm only a "Reader", but I'll give you an "Atta Boy", KB.
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suzzee 5961 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 08:24 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Vidcap Analysis...Common Ground?" |
I like that idea and would definitely visit and contribute where I could.
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 08:34 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Vidcap Analysis...Common Ground?" |
Definitely okay by me, Krautboy, no need to ask for my permission though! Sounds great.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-10, 09:11 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
Well spoken, Corvis and suzzee!Corvis, even though we like different things, I feel good about what you said because you showed that you "get" what I'm pursuing. I also get what you're pursuing. I think both ways can be fun. I'm too much of a digger to restrain myself. I like to hunt for information. So I will not be going unspoiled, but i understand what you're after. My frustration is raised by comments that show they don't know what I am doing. I'm not thinking I'm the center of everything, hardly, but I would like a person to understand what I do before opining that it should be just as gratifying if I do it this other way to accommodate them. I don't see a lot of or any accommodation being offered as a quid pro quo. There are people complaining in the topics. There have been since last season and maybe before. You are not one of them.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-10, 03:07 AM (EST)
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56. "clearing the air" |
I know you have some frustration with how I went about things with the sanity thread as well. That's okay, I can take it.Thing is, just to be out in the open, a big reason for that thread is actually expressed in its title. It's not just about deciding what we do, if and how things might be done differently, all that stuff that really needed to be discussed. The big hurdle was to get everyone thinking together, restoring sanity. Without that we might as well have struck a match and watched the Hindenburg burn.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-10, 08:26 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: clearing the air" |
Unfortunately for me, all the sanity discussion accomplished was to show me I need to leave this board and go hang out at MESS, There is nothing about the organization of this forum post-discussion that works for me. There are people here that matter to me, and that's it.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-10, 11:03 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: clearing the air" |
Who said the discussion was over?The vidcap thread this week is a trial, not a set in stone re-organization of, really, only one of the weekly threads. And then CBS itself went and spoiled the big mystery anyway. Your view is noted, a different correction may be in order.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 00:31 AM (EST)
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59. "RE: clearing the air" |
I should rephrase -- the discussion may not be done but I am. I started a discussion of which the simple premise was -- I and others can't spoil in spoiler forum where spoilers info is unwelcome, and something needs to be done to take back the spoiler forum. That was the topic. Numerous people posted in support of that idea. Cut to the current conversation, and now not only is the spoiler forum not restored, but the vidcap topic has been castrated of even the basic info that would supplement the vidcaps. If people want to mess around with pics and only care about the process and not getting at the truth, and that's their fun, OK but it's not the same game. My hobby seeks real answers, and I will speculate when there's no info, not for the sake of playing speculator. The two things are incompatible and FWIW I never agreed it was a good idea to try it for even one week. I was outvoted and my concerns were pooh-poohed and not heard in a receptive way. If that is "consensus" in this community then it feels oddly non-inclusive. 
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 12:40 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: clearing the air" |
OFG, I am awed by your knowledge of the game and respect your needs as a spoiler, but honestly, you need to lighten up. No one else has threatened to quit Blows twice.Yes the vidcap thread was redundant for sourced spoilers but it also exhibited a pent-up demand for a place to talk about the upcoming episode for other posters. It was an experiment and we saw names that hadn’t posted in Spoilers for a few seasons. So far, it has been a success, IMO. Instead of complaining, I suggest that you start an episode 10 sourced spoiler discussion thread. You can bring in pertinent vidcaps, clues, comments from missy etc. You have complained in the past that everything was too clunky, so perhaps having a dedicated thread each week will help you and others streamline your thoughts. You can take the discussion to the next level which you desire without thought to what might slip. People can join it as they desire or not. I don’t mean to marginalize your feelings, but we all need to learn to COEXIST!
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LFJ 363 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 01:33 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: clearing the air" |
OFG,I can only guess at how this will be received, but...KB is at least as prolific a spoiler as you - maybe more. And yet, he is not furstrated by this "discussion". On the contrary, he has organized a thread wherein people are now having what appears to be a little more fun. This leads me to feel (and trust me, there is no way to count the number of times I have been wrong in my analysis of behavior) that there is an extraneous source of great frustration for you that is permeating your posts here. Allow me to say that I am sorry for whatever it is. I may be speaking out of turn, but no one here wants to see you leave the Forum. I know you are capable of managing what seems to be a minor change in the program, although, I understand that as frustration mounts, small irritants are magnified into almost insurmountable obstacles (in this case, spoiling in your own way, which appears to be a great outlet/hobby for you). As CTGirl said, (but I will exhort you) please "learn to coexist". *ducks and prepares for full frontal assault*
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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 09:03 PM (EST)
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68. "LFJ" |
Please do not make comments that involve assumptions about the personal lives of fellow posters. These forums are here for the purpose of discussing reality television shows and the contestants. Discussion about fellow posters is not helpful and often leads to hurt feelings.Talk about the show... talk to each other... don't talk about one another. Thank you, in advance, for your cooperation.
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rachelOH63 210 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 03:14 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-10 AT 04:51 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 11-12-10 AT 04:49 PM (EST) I typed this quickly so hopefully it makes sense: I was lying in bed last night, at midnight, thinking about poor OFG. Feeling bad as she contributes so much and is obviously horribly affected!! Sorry!! I agree with so many comments above -- on both sides of the argument. I was reading the vidcaps last night. Did missy or someone spoil what the preview was about before CBS did?? I COULD BE WRONG, but it seemed like some people’s comments were just “playing” with us non-fully-spoiled people. Some comments made me wonder if they knew what the preview was referring to already. Or talking about the unlikeliest (was that the word?) rivals and throwing out different combos to see what we (non-spoiled) would think. Would we take the bait?? Would we take that information and get ourselves to the boot for this week?? This is what OFG was talking about – she doesn’t want to pretend that she doesn’t know anything, she wants to get to point C, not just make comments about point A. I'm going to pretend I am King Solomon now: I realize this is a "spoiler" site, and "newbies" are coming out, declaring "TMI"... (I thought the same thing). A few people above recommended invisible ink, as I did in the sanity thread. Why not try that as the experiment in vidcaps? I realize that means the really spoiled people have to take more effort when writing (to add the invisible ink), and sometimes make minor comments which we can read-between-the-lines, or sometimes slip and say some spoiler in the middle of the spectrum of spoiled information. If they wanted to be extra helpful (but more work, again for them), they could add a visible comment like “minor spoiler for next week” or “this post is on the next 2 people going” or something like that. Current week spoilers shouldn’t be as BIG of a deal, but even then, if you want to be kind, you could put those in invisible ink too (or just say “TWMB” for this week’s missy boot)… Then OFG and others can use the same thread with the “light” spoilers, read everyone’s thoughts, formulate their Point B information to get to point C. I would like to see that used as the experiment in vidcaps.
ETA: Bonus of adding visible comments about the degree of the invisible ink spoiler would be, if someone does choose to read it, there would be more people participating at that level of spoilage...so by knowing how much of a spoiler they are about to read, some may stick their leg in a little deeper....
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 06:26 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-10 AT 06:38 PM (EST)hi rachel,
like I said yesterday, I'm worn out with the back and forth, but as you asked specific questions that I can answer, here goes: >>> I was reading the vidcaps last night. Did missy or someone spoil what the preview was about before CBS did?? I COULD BE WRONG, but it seemed like some people’s comments were just “playing” with us non-fully-spoiled people. Some comments made me wonder if they knew what the preview was referring to already. Or talking about the unlikeliest (was that the word?) rivals and throwing out different combos to see what we (non-spoiled) would think. Would we take the bait?? Would we take that information and get ourselves to the boot for this week?? First, none of the three people (Krautboy, kiki, Brownroach) who do keep up with missyae spoilers would be the type to bait anyone or toy with them. It's simply difficult to be in the position of knowing the answer and providing neutral comments. Yes, missyae spoiled that there would be a fire at least a couple weeks ago. Without spoiling any details, I can tell you that everyone who reads spoilers knew, when they saw the preview:
a) it had been a fire at the camp
b) whose fault it was, singular or plural, and exactly what actions caused the fire
c) whether or not there were game consequences for that person or those persons
d) when the people in the promo found the fire
e) much of the strategy that will occur during the episode. That said, I for one do not know who CBS meant by the unlikely pair, which shows that the clues can be hard to crack even if you know a whole lot. Often the clues are written very sloppily, so that adds to the difficulty. >>> This is what OFG was talking about – she doesn’t want to pretend that she doesn’t know anything, she wants to get to point C, not just make comments about point A. Thank you for understanding my point and repeating it back. Yes, that is what it is exactly. To me it is a waste of typing to do the pretend that I don't know every week. If you think about it, it leads to some less than desirable positions. Say someone writes a logical argument for why the camp is flooded, which I know isn't correct, but was still good speculation. Do I acknowledge the speculation and say "wow, excellent analysis, that could well be!" Then that leads to people second-guessing what I say, going "OFG is spoiled, so is she saying that's right by agreeing that it's good spec, BAD because she is spoiling it for us. Or is she PLAYING with us and falsely agreeing? BAD because she is screwing with us. It's really a no win situation. I didn't oppose the idea without thinking through how it would play out, and concluding that I have no place in the vidcap discussion with this system. I was never a star of the vidcapper world, so I'm not pretending that it will be a huge loss, but I am pointing out that it's not workable to include everyone in this topic. One side or the other isn't going to like it. I would like to see the folks who want to be unspoiled be conscious of that and try to understand why, instead of going off on my personality issues.
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Corvis 3130 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 07:02 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
Right, I agree. That's why I think that the two (spoilers who avoid sources and those who don't) can't really work well together and suggested a new speculation forum where the people who read source spoilers don't go. But that's not very community building, I realize. But then the spoiler forum as it is has lead to some of the dedicated spoilers of the past choosing to leave. So whatcha gonna do? I enjoyed the vidcap thread this week because I didn't know there was a missyae spoiler about what happens so I didn't realize that some of the people posting already knew what was up. Had I known, I am sure I would gone into the second guessing thing you're talking about, OFG. Which I know is frustrating for me and frustrating for you!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 07:57 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
CorvisAnother downside is that I could not even congratulate you for thinking of the Amazon fire. It's hardly community building when I can't even see some good spec and say Woohoo! You nailed it! I would be all for a true speculation forum, but that's up to Webby. My favorite example of what happens when second guessing is extended to the nth degree would be the scene of the exchanged poisoned cups in Princess Bride. You switched it. (obvious conclusion)
But wait, you knew I would expect you to think that, so you didn't switch it.
But you knew I would think of that, so actually you switched it.
and on and on, I forget how far they took it, but it was pretty funny.
End of the Innocence
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 08:22 PM (EST)
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67. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
The vidcap thread this week has been an experiment. I participated in the discussion as if I didn't know there had been a fire. It was intended as a demonstration of how things might work. The observations I made were intentionally neutral, and examples of the same observations I would have made had I been unspoiled about the fire. I intentionally left out the speculation because I knew the answer.Don't give up on spoiling together in the vidcap thread just yet. I think it can work. Later this week we may get more vidcaps about the challenges that have not yet been source spoiled. In that case we will all be working from the same place. If continue with the Spoiler Free Vid Cap thread, I will probably refrain from making comments when the topic of discussion has already been source spoiled. However, there will be plenty of opportunities to participate without interfering, because there is plenty that hasn't been spoiled. It will take a little discipline from those who are source spoiled, but I think it would be worth it. I had fun in the Vid Cap thread, even though I knew about the fire. It was also very interesting and very instructive to me to follow the lines of reasoning knowing the answer. Don't give up on me yet...let's keep our spoiling glass half full as we continue to coexist...and wait together for the day that Missyae gets cut off.
Krautboy
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Round Robin 2914 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-10, 01:51 AM (EST)
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69. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
The day missyae gets cut off will not come till SeeBS finds out for sure who his source is and either fires that person or cuts off his/her access to privileged information. I don't want to see somebody lose his/her job in these times, so if that's what it takes to keep the unspoiled folks from being spoiled, then may they be spoiled rotten till Hell freezes over. Hopefully in the end you all will find a solution that everybody can live with, but if that proves to be impossible and one side or the other has to leave to be happy, then let me cast my vote right now for the side with the most Blows vets being the one to stay, as they are who made this place what it is and it just won't be the same without them.
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kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-10, 02:39 AM (EST)
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73. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
I too want to add that I posted in the Vidcaps thread this week and pretended I didn't know anything about the fire as a "show of support" for the experiement, especially because I unintentionally spoiled some people in last week's Vidcap thread. I re-read my post and I didn't say anything at all that could be construed as "baiting" or "teasing" the unspoiled. I'm feeling really conflicted right now about this whole thing because the truth is KB, OFG, Brownroach, Squid are MUCH BETTER SPOILERS than I will ever be. So, I feel like I really shouldn't participate in the decision of how the spoilers forum is run -- it should be left to the "master spoilers" for lack of a better name. Whatever they want, I will agree with 100%. At the same time, until a decision is made, I don't want to be a jerk and "spoil" things for those who want to read the spoilers forum and remain unspoiled. See how silly that sounds? I feel like people who want to read the spoilers forum and remain unspoiled want to have their cake and eat it too and I fail to see how to accommodate them except for them to know that each and every thread in this forum will have spoilers in it UNLESS it is labled as a "speculation only" or "spoiler free zone" thread.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-10, 07:10 PM (EST)
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65. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
I forgot to reply to what you said about hidden font. This may be hard to understand for people who haven't been at Blows as long as I have, but it is what it is.Long long ago, there was what I'd best describe as a nasty feud between factions of posters, which spilled into Spoilers from OT. The side I was not on liked to wage war by using invisible font to make nasty snide passive-aggressive remarks. It became so bad that the only way to know what was being said in its entirety was to highlight every post while reading, which was a royal pain. At that time, I vowed never to use invisible font, and the use of it here brings up very bad memories. As I said, this is going to be hard to understand if you weren't here, but it is what it is. On a practical note, using spoiler font will only fracture the conversation. Say that I put fire and such in spoiler font, and someone replies to me, that part of the reply has to be invisible, and a third person's reply to the reply. So there are two conversations, and the invisible part could conceivably be as long or longer as the visible part. So, that is the long way of saying thanks for the idea, but no I'm not even going there.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-10, 02:07 AM (EST)
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70. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-13-10 AT 02:11 AM (EST)More on hidden font. The proposal could work but in the vidcap thread experiment this week it would be a violation of the standard requested for that thread. So it gets more complicated, because then we have a third category between Spoiler and Speculation, Speculation Thread But Hidden Font Source Spoilers Allowed. And we would want anyone including such hidden spoilers to point it out, saying something like Highlight Here For Hidden Spoiler. It gets complicated. I did joke earlier this season about changing the rule in vote threads to require votes to be in hidden text, maybe it is just my sense of humor but I think that is even funnier than requiring spoilers be in hidden text in a spoiler forum. But if you open the ep9 vote thread and highlight you can find Waldo, just a bit of silliness. Anyway, Occam's Razor should be applied to the ultimate outcome of all this, the simpler the better. Right now we are in discussion, trial and error, process of elimination. Blows developed over time into a well-oiled spoiling machine, we should guard against destroying that.
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Round Robin 2914 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-10, 01:42 AM (EST)
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71. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
I agree with your Occam's Razor comment, and I would further caution against imposing too big a change to meet a spoiling landscape that will probably change again as the seasons pass. We should not assume that the current heavily source spoiled setup will continue to prevail, as the pendulum has swung about as far that way as is possible, and sooner or later the amount of information getting out will subside. Eventually there will be seasons in which the information flow is more similar to the last several seasons before missyae than to the seasons he spoiled, and when such a season happens again we'll want the old spoilers and their methods around. So let's not drive away posters in an excessive quest for a humanly impossible level of perfection. Let's cut the old timers who are used to the old regime some slack. We'll need them to still be here if the old hard core, low information spoiling methods must be resumed.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-10, 02:08 AM (EST)
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72. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
Things could be entirely different next season, but there are almost always a few longevity spoilers. Gabon was an exception. The way the spoiler forum has been in the past, it worked for whatever level of spoiling there happened to be.
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Round Robin 2914 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-10, 02:41 AM (EST)
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74. "RE: Discussion of Spoiler Forum Protocol: Spoiler Free Version" |
I don't expect things to be THAT different for S22. I still think that one will be heavily source spoiled, but perhaps with a higher bull$hit level due to missyae's and blackwhale's sources being fed a lot of bull$hit from the SeeBS and SEG people. But after S22 is when I expect Survivors to start to be less heavily spoiled as the sources either get fired or reduce their passage of information after much bull$hit is spread during S22. This kind of thing runs in cycles and I think will continue to do so as long as they keep making Survivors, and after 2 years and 4 seasons of heavy source spoiling, they're due for that to be throttled back a little bit.
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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