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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 12-10-04, 08:33 AM (EST) "The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" And so we are here Again, my admiration for everyone who has posted their thoughts. I am simply amazed every time we do this how insightful all of you are and doing this thread has always been a big reason why I continue to enjoy the show as much as I do For reference http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/5572.shtml http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/cgi-bin/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5480&forum=DCForumID2&omm=0 http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/5313.shtml kingfish Duly noted I may just have to pat myself on the back as well but forehead does that for me (thank you forehead) So this is it everyone. Where do we stand. What did the editing show. I need a little time for the all important foreshadowing but some things did stand out of course: Eliza's reference to wanting to keep on winning immunity (I have noted in the past two episodes what I felt were key quotes with reference to immunity, this may be another) Suddenly (or not so suddenly?) Twilla is Eliza's target? The Scout issue for her ranged on and on that she couldn't wait to get her out and now the tides have turned to Twilla? Character Development I had mentioned the last two or so episodes that Twilla is getting a very dangerous edit now. The negativity and then complete arrogance has only developed further. She was NOT seen in any positive way, shape or form with the exception of the insecurity she had but that was completely capitalized by her animosity and her haughtiness at Eliza. Consequently, Eliza Her development has continued in the positive as already discussed. This does bode well for her and again, Eliza appears in danger. Could her quote of wanting to keep winning immunities therefore come to fruition? Eliza used her skills at the jury also and she came off much better than Twilla's (now redundant) I can't trust everyone. Chris I mentioned last episode I believe that Chris's edit turned a little too confident for my liking. This does not always bode well and I referenced the "check" comment and this could be a sentence of doom rather than a prophetic one. I still maintain (as Brownroach and I indicated) that for Chris to get past all the women left would be hard to do. His commentaries last night had him further descending into "too much confidence" and that always concerns me in terms of editing the characters. I truly believe watching the storylines and changes mean something and so far this has not deviated. Chris statement to Eliza about going to final three with her reply of you mean final two with his Well, yeah was very interesting. We know Chris's final three consists of Scout and Twilla and now Eliza realizes that after all her comments on how much she trusts Chris came back to bite her. His playing both sides with only a few left could hurt him dearly. The escalating behind the scenes enjoyment he was having makes me nervous as previously discussed. Scout With the exception of a few sentences, she was not even part of the story. As already noted, suddenly Eliza is the target and as stated she continued to not look quite as "evil" as Twilla. I am still considering whether or not her physical capabilities lead to something OR whether they were provided to show her in a more empathetic light in terms of how she may have been portrayed more of the "bad guy" in the Leann boot and the subsequent Ami episode. Either way, Scout is not being shown as the "most evil" (in a manner of speaking) She was not even a blip at Tribal Council. My only concern for that is at this point in time, I would have suspected a flesh out, coupled with the promotion for the final four as her being deemed under the radar (which by the way, I disagree with strongly) did give me pause. But as you all know, I stand where I stand despite what comes the way. At times it works and other times it does not So I will stand with Twilla going next since I had suspected such last week due to her editing (and kingfish this is where I will give myself a little pat if it does happen ) If not, we are all having fun anyway I will be posting more "foreshadowing" moments and editing later. Tell me what you "saw" everyone   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... kingfish 12-10-04 1  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Loree 12-10-04 2    Twila vs Eliza pmspml5 12-10-04 3    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... oncebitten 12-10-04 13        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Spidey 12-10-04 36            Ties aethelstan 12-10-04 38                RE: Ties Capn2patch 12-10-04 39                RE: Ties Spidey 12-10-04 41  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Flowerpower 12-10-04 4    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... RDIheath 12-10-04 6    Chris: Rob redeemed pinchy 12-10-04 33  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Devious Weasel 12-10-04 5    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... VerucaSalt 12-10-04 7        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Brownroach 12-10-04 8            Disagree Bebo 12-10-04 9                RE: Disagree Brownroach 12-10-04 11                RE: Disagree sylvester 12-11-04 63            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Virgo 12-10-04 10            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... volsfan 12-10-04 12                RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Brownroach 12-10-04 20                    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Capn2patch 12-10-04 30                        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... volsfan 12-11-04 64            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... macamrox 12-10-04 14            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... cadfile 12-10-04 15  Chris/Eliza LittleRED 12-10-04 16  I'll try...... emydi 12-10-04 17    RE: I'll try...... cadfile 12-10-04 18    RE: I'll try...... Brownroach 12-10-04 26  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Jims02 12-10-04 19    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... emydi 12-10-04 21        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Jims02 12-10-04 24            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Capn2patch 12-10-04 31        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Flowerpower 12-10-04 27    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Brownroach 12-10-04 23  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... kingfish 12-10-04 22  forehead's musings forehead 12-10-04 25    RE: forehead's musings Brownroach 12-10-04 28        RE: forehead's musings emydi 12-10-04 29            RE: forehead's musings Gingerman28 12-10-04 32                RE: forehead's musings VerucaSalt 12-10-04 35                    RE: forehead's musings Brownroach 12-10-04 43                        RE: forehead's musings alwaysintruble1 12-10-04 55                            RE: forehead's musings Brownroach 12-11-04 66                                RE: forehead's musings volsfan 12-11-04 67        RE: forehead's musings forehead 12-10-04 44    RE: forehead's musings redbeard103152 12-11-04 58  Clay aethelstan 12-10-04 34    RE: Clay Loquatrix 12-10-04 51        RE: Clay RudyRules 12-11-04 59  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... memacmur 12-10-04 37  Gotta Be Scout or Eliza GuessItRains 12-10-04 40    RE: Gotta Be Chris pinchy 12-10-04 47        RE: Gotta Be Chris GuessItRains 12-10-04 48    RE: Gotta Be Scout or Eliza kingfish 12-11-04 56  As a Chris fan... Loquatrix 12-10-04 42  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... DRONES 12-10-04 45    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... GuessItRains 12-10-04 46        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... DRONES 12-10-04 49            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... GuessItRains 12-10-04 50                RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Whole Lotta Rosie 12-10-04 52                    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... oncebitten 12-10-04 53                        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Whole Lotta Rosie 12-10-04 54                    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... DRONES 12-11-04 57                        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... RudyRules 12-11-04 60                            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... VerucaSalt 12-11-04 61                                RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... DRONES 12-11-04 62                                RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... volsfan 12-11-04 65                                    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... braveheart 12-11-04 68                                        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... volsfan 12-11-04 69                                            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... braveheart 12-11-04 70                                                RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... volsfan 12-11-04 71                                                    RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Capn2patch 12-11-04 72                                                        RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... kingfish 12-11-04 73                                                            RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... braveheart 12-12-04 74  RE: The Final Four-The Players, The... Flowerpower 12-13-04 75

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 09:04 AM (EST) 1. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I also noted Eliza's comment, something like "Well, I will just have to win the remaining ICs". Given the likely competition, F3 (endurance) would be a Gimme for her, and given her record on all types of competitions (excluding those that involve mud pits or pigs) she would be a favorite at F4 IC too.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 09:16 AM (EST) 2. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Eliza's phrase about winning the IC jumped out. She enjoyed winning it and would like to continue to do so. And I think she will win next week and it will screw up everyone's plans of booting her next. Eliza is gradually winning herself some fans. And her mother's visit and comments about Eliza annoying everyone seem interesting. How could she possibly win? Hmmm? Scout was rather invisible lastnight. Twila overtook that 2some and got all the face time and Eliza's wrath. We heard Chris mention a connection with Twila but not as much about Scout. Everyone seems to have realized Scout can't win any challenges and she is in a tight alliance with Twila. Chris mentioned that Scout was ready to play the game while Twila was a Basket Case. Chris is looking too comfortable and confident. He realized he was the important vote. And yes he was with 5 people. But now they are down to 4. And if Eliza wins the IC who will Scout/Twila want to boot? They don't want to break up their own alliance so Chris would be the only alternative. Would Eliza risk a tie by voting with Chris against one of Scout/Twila? The players have mentioned the dreaded tie this season and nobody wants to risk the consequences. And Eliza does not have the same trust in Chris anymore   Top

pmspml5 3263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 12-10-04, 09:26 AM (EST) 3. "Twila vs Eliza" I had a slightly different take on the editing of last nights show. I felt they were both portrayed as a little childish. However, I think that Chris comment about Twila being a basket case was put there for a reason. We later saw Eliza calling T a lier but then went on to lie about what she was planning. I think Twila's comment about - I can not let my guard down - was also an important statement. Last night, Eliza let her guard down and Julie got voted out. Also, you could barely hear it but Twila made a comment out Eliza "its her way or no way and thats bullshit" or something like that. I think they are showing that Twila has a reason to be a "basketcase" but that she is totally aware of what is happening around her - unlike Eliza, Chris, and even Scout.   Top

oncebitten 145 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 11:29 AM (EST) 13. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I think that Eliza will win IC and vote for Twila and this will lead to Chris doing the same. Scout and Twila will have no choice but to vote for Chris. And if memory serves me correctly they will go to past TC votes and Twila will get booted b/c Twila has 5 votes against her (2 TC 14 with Jules and Eliza voting for her and 3 at TC 4 with Jules, Eliza and Mia voting for her). Whereas, Chris only has 3 votes against him (dating all the way back to TC1 where Brook, John K and John P voted for Chris). This bodes well with Twila always scared of a tie.   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 03:26 PM (EST) 36. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Tie scenario doesn't come down to previous votes. Eliza and Chris discussed last night that it will come down to a challenge between the 2 voted for. So, if Eliza wins IC, it'll likely be Chris and Twila in a challenge face-off. If Chris wins, Eliza v. Twila.   Top

aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 12-10-04, 03:34 PM (EST) 38. "Ties" You may have something there Spidey. If it is a challenge, and Eliza won the IC. Then Chris can prove that he is true to Eliza by having them both vote for Scout. Eliza has nothing to lose by agreeing to this because if Chris isn't faithful, he will lose 2-1-1. But! If it is Scout and Chris who both receive 2 votes and they have a challenge against each other, then I see Chris winning. What kind of challenge would it be? Maybe a fallen comrades challenge? In fact, the editing suggests that a tie will take place because we've been slowly, over several episodes told exactly how ties would be broken. Why edit this stuff in unless it actually happens? And, if so, maybe Twila does go as a result of a tie. Irony? ©Kittyloaf Creations, 2003 Pessimist: Things couldn't possibly be any worse. Optimist: Oh yes they could   Top

Capn2patch 2785 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-10-04, 03:53 PM (EST) 39. "RE: Ties" >In fact, the editing suggests that >a tie will take place >because we've been slowly, over >several episodes told exactly how >ties would be broken. >Why edit this stuff in >unless it actually happens? > >And, if so, maybe Twila does >go as a result of >a tie. Irony? Indeed something to consider. Can you hear it? It’s a Syren.   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 04:28 PM (EST) 41. "RE: Ties" I don't see any way that Scout will be in a F4 tie challenge. If E doesn't get IN, she's out. If she gets it, she will either vote with Chris to force a tie against Twila, and one of her two strongest Final IC competitors goes, or she votes with her enemies to oust Chris, who would be the hardest to beat in a jury vote. No one is voting for Scout at F4 because everyone wants their weakest competition in the final IC.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 09:56 AM (EST) 4. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Excellent observations as always VS! In terms of the editing I am lead in the same direction as you are. I, too, think that all of the negative editing is indeed leading to a)Twila out as she is being edited as "losing it" and very negatively, b) Chris is appearing more confident and more complacent. c} Scout was practically invisible last night, d) Eliza, once again shown as shocked at TC and more determined to win the remaining IC's. First, I have got to say that I am noting that Chris, remaining as the only male left is really focused on making the F3 rather than the F2, as was indicated when he was talking to Eliza, saying this will get us to the F3, while she said all the way to the F2. I do think he is playing this game now as hard as he can and played well in that he was not antagonistic to those that approached him, as Ami was. I think he is extremely focused on F3. I know that he will want to win the next IC, but I still see him as having options, should he not win. He knows that the three women could band together, miraculously, and vote him off. If Eliza does not win IC, I see her as toast....the editing therefore leads me to believe that she will win it. If Chris wins the IC, I think that he would stay with Twila and Scout and vote out Eliza. IF, Eliza wins the IC, then he will feel in trouble, but I really do not think that it will not be too hard to pull Scout away from Twila, or even Twila from Scout. I think that the fear of a tie will break up Scout and Twila one way or the other....last night Scout exhibited much more trust in Chris than Twila did. I particularly noted the extended hug upon his return to camp after the RC outing. I think at this point with all the paranoia and negativity that Twila is just out of control and appearing very desparate. I can see Scout ditching her for Chris at this point...we'll see. If Eliza wins the IC she will only want to vote out Twila, at this point, IMO. I do not think that Twila or Scout will win the very physical challenge, as Twila has hurt her foot/ankle and Scout, well, enough said. Just wanted to add that although Chris is feeling more confident, I think that that was just regarding his chances last night for remaining longer. I think he is playing strong and hard and I have more hope for him making it to F2 than I did one week ago. He knows that the odds of him making it to F2 were stronger by keeping Scout and Twila around instead of Julie...so despite the friendship card, he is remaining focused. That was a positive move on his part, he made the right choice. Scout was practically invisible last night, definately under the radar. By not appearing to be making waves may indeed save her to the very end game. But, I can only hope that the confessional trend continues that the bootee is hidden prior to their boot week as I would be thrilled to see her out next.... Eliza was shown again looking very surprised by Chris' vote last night. Chris will have to do some damage control, but I think that he will again emphasize his plan for them to get to F2 is much stronger facing Scout and Twila than it would to be facing Julie. Boy the animosity between Eliza and the burly's is palpable...this editing that is shown leads me to believe that the surprise ending will be that Eliza, a bowhead, young one, was able to outlast all of the older, more dominant ones, as the theme of the entire show seemed to be the older vs. the younger.   Top

RDIheath 59 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-10-04, 10:08 AM (EST) 6. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I posted this in another thread but thought it appropriate here also This is what I see happening: Chris has been playing the game/ strategizing better than just about any other survivor in the past 9 seasons in part due to being the only man left among 2 factions of women He has thought his position through and I think is running scenarios continually and sees his best shot at the million Chris pulls E back in explaining/assuring her that what he did was for their BEST GOOD Several times MB showed him reassuring her that he would “do what was BEST FOR THEM” I don’t think that this was hammered home to us for no particular reason OR for the purpose of building up to the betrayal at tribal council. I feel that this was a foreshadowing of something to come. i.e. Chris laying out their best road to the final 2 Chris knows that he stands a better chance in the final 2 against Eliza. Chris knows that he SHOULD be able to convince one or the other of T/S to turn on the other by simply showing them that they can GUARANTEE themselves of ONE SPOT BETTER place in the game Scout is NO IMMUNITY THREAT and EVERYONE knows it Twila has shown that she can be a threat especially in the standard FINAL 3 ENDURANCE challenge (see the POLE challenge) That being established I think that Chris will bring Eliza back in assuring her that he HAD to do what he did for “THEIR BEST GOOD” and they will work on either T/S to vote the other out Chris knows that his BEST BET is to vote out T and go to the final 3 IC against Eliza and Scout knowing that Eliza would take him if she won and knowing that his best bet would be to take Eliza to the F2 I see it this way. Either Chris or Eliza win immunity in the F4 IC and they work on Scout assuring her final 3 if she swings over to vote out T Scout knows that they don’t have a very good shot of beating Chris or Eliza in a challenge and agrees that he chances are better this way (assured –VS- up in the air) T is gone Chris or Eliza win the F3 immunity, and the winner picks the other leaving Scout to limp to the Jury box Chris knows that Chad & Sarge will vote for him (2 votes assured) Twila hates Eliza worse than she would hate Chris for orchestrating her ouster (1 vote) Scout is the same (1 vote) That’s 4 and that’s all he needs. I believe Chris has thought this through pretty much and he is NO DUMMY. He knows what his best chance is as do we all her on the outside looking in Just my opinion though for all its worth   Top

pinchy 200 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-10-04, 02:37 PM (EST) 33. "Chris: Rob redeemed" I agree with FP's analysis, so I won't rehash that. Just wanted to add that I think Chris's edit is a sort of redemption of the Robfaddah, and I think this means he wins it all. He's just the right amount of scheming and game playing and he has heart. Julie just got a Lex All stars edit- and this will make for an interesting jury statement/question. Chris screwed over his friend, someone he cared about and even based his lie on that, but this time Julie will forgive him (unlike Lex) and it'll be all gooey and pretty. (ugh!   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 10:05 AM (EST) 5. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I didn't read Chris as too confident. Confident, yes, but not cocky. In fact, his statement at tribal that he was the middleman was markedly different from Rory this season or Christy during Amazon. He seemed pained by being in the middle, not assured. And they kept coming back to him throughout the show saying (and I'm paraphrasing) "For all I know, all four of them are going to vote me out no matter what they are telling me now." He said some variant of this statement at least three times during the course of the show. If Burnett wanted to give him a cocky or too confident edit, he could have easily left those comments out. I also read Scout as much more evil than you did. Her comments, particularly about the banana incident, struck me as being incredibly patronizing. Such comments as calling Eliza "little one" or the whole "Oh, she's going to get you Twila - you better be worried" didn't do her any favors. Indeed, now that I write that, the "she's going to get you Twila" comment could be foreshadowing. Hmmm...   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 12-10-04, 10:32 AM (EST) 7. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Indeed, now that I write that, the "she's going to get you Twila" comment could be foreshadowing. Hmmm... DW - isn't foreshadowing fun FP - right back to you as well dear Great comments everybody and observations as we all see certain things in different ways. RE: Scout as more evil than I saw. My thoughts are more/less her being evil in relation to how Twilla was portrayed even to the extent where suddenly Twilla is now the one Eliza wants gone so badly. Scout did not receive a "good" edit whatsoever, it most definitely was condescending but less we forget there is still a bone of contention with her and Eliza and Mark Burnett has not let us forget that. Twilla on the other hand was edited as just being over the top straight through to TC so in comparison Scout's edit was not quite as "evil" RE: Chris. A lot of great observations on him. Mind you, my thoughts on Chris are one of evolvement. I observe the editing and change in character development from the first episode until the present. In that context, Chris's edit did turn into one that appears a little too confident. His TC remarks were not I agree. He is very smart and said what he should. I am referring more/less to what the audience saw in his confessionals. That level made me pause somewhat. Twilla's arrogance started to appear after Ami got booted regarding the power and while Chris does not seem to show his as palpable I start to wonder when I see editing turns in character development. Needless to say, it is always a hit or miss on how it is seen. His turn could be a good one but as of now I'm not too sure   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 10:44 AM (EST) 8. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Chris and Eliza are no way going to be the final 2, imo. Their conversation where Chris said "we'll be 2 of the final 3 and then Eliza said "2 of the final 2" is good enough for me to say that both statements will turn out to be false. Chris is in deep doo-doo now. I think the editing showed him as a very bad player last night, and I think he may have realized it from the look on his face after the votes were read. He cannot be making promises to different factions at this point and not expect it to come back to bite him. A smart play would have been to vote for Twila, *after* extracting from Eliza a promise to vote off Julie at Final 4, leaving Scout as an easy boot at F3. Of course he really wanted to be final 3 with Scout and Twila, but now he needs immunity at F4 to stay in the game. As does Eliza, who "would like to win all the immunities from now on", and, I think, will. We have seen she does not like to be crossed and I'm afraid she will have no compunction against voting Chris off next. And the despised Twila at F3. I also noted that the players are aware there is a tie-breaker challenge at F4 rather than the purple rock; however, I don't think we are going to see a forced tie. Neither Chris nor Eliza has any reason to help each other out now. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 11:09 AM (EST) 9. "Disagree" Chris and Eliza still have use for each other - to break apart the strong pair of Twila and Scout. Eliza can't break up the C/T/S alliance - there's no way Twila and Scout would throw over Chris to ally with the immature one they both dislike. The best thing for Chris would be if Eliza won immunity. Since he would be forced to vote for one of his alliance mates, he could strike a deal to avoid a tiebreaker. I could easily see him going to Scout and telling her that since one of them has to go, they may as well agree on voting off Twila and avoid putting themselves at risk with a tie. Since she knows how weak at challenges she is, and since we've been told that a F4 tie would be broken via challenge, Scout may feel like she doesn't have a choice and agree. That leaves Chris in the perfect spot - a guaranteed F2 spot. There's no way Eliza and Scout would pick the other over him. Chris could remind Eliza about his comment that voting off Julie could help them in their game position, and point out that it did so. And Scout wouldn't betray their alliance, since Chris never has. And if Chris won immunity, he could pick whichever either one and still be assured of getting the other's vote, given their hatred for one another. If Twila or Scout wins immunity, then Chris just stays true to their alliance and votes off Eliza. Chris isn't going to end up in 4th place. You know the difference between you and me? I make this look good.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 11:16 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Disagree" The best thing for Chris would be if Eliza won immunity. Disagree -- this would be the *worst* thing for Chris. Eliza does not trust him now, she knows he's tighter with Scout and Twila than with her. She can't depend on him to take her to F2 should he happen to win F3 immunity. Chris and Eliza must each get to the end of the game on their own now. I think Eliza already realizes that. I'm not sure if Chris does, but he's going to find out. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-11-04, 04:02 PM (EST) 63. "RE: Disagree" "Since he would be forced to vote for one of his alliance mates, he could strike a deal to avoid a tiebreaker. I could easily see him going to Scout and telling her that since one of them has to go, they may as well agree on voting off Twila and avoid putting themselves at risk with a tie." Bebo, I agree with you for the most part, but disagree with this outcome. I think if Eliza wins F4 IC (and she probably does), Chris & Twila vote out Scout. I don't believe that Scout would vote for Twila yet. I do think that Twila would vote Scout out without blinking an eye if it came to that, and if Eliza wins Twila will make a beeline to Chris to offer her Scout vote. Eliza will go along with that if Chris tell her to, she doesn't care which one goes as long as one of them does. I believe Twila is afraid of being in the final 2 with either Scout or Eliza. They were both more popular with the women than she was. I believe Twila wants to go against Chris, she may not like her chances, but he is the worst of the evils to her I think. Call me Cat!   Top

Virgo 4 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 11:14 AM (EST) 10. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Chris will stick with T and Scout and hope to get in the final two by winning IC. T and Scout are both weak in IC and his chances with them are better than going against Eliza. The votes Eliza Chris Scout Twila   Top

volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 11:27 AM (EST) 12. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" BR, I agree with Bebo here but I think it has to do with this... Why do you say these two statements will not play out: Their conversation where Chris said "we'll be 2 of the final 3 and then Eliza said "2 of the final 2" is good enough for me to say that both statements will turn out to be false. But this one will: As does Eliza, who "would like to win all the immunities from now on", and, I think, will. Also, I think the best thing for Chris is for Eliza to win immunity. This way he has to break-up the Scout/Twila alliance without breaking any type of word to the women. He has no other choice but to vote one of them because he can't vote for Eliza nor himself. All Chris has to do is go to Eliza and say which one you want me to vote out. Then go to the other and say...your going unless we have your vote.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:29 PM (EST) 20. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Whenever we hear a player or players talk about finishing at a certain level in the game, it never happens -- that's my impression. We were told that Leann, Ami and Julie were going to be three of the final 4, and that is now dead. We were also told that Scout was *not* part of that final 4 alliance, and here she is in the final 4. I think that specific exchange in the Chris/Eliza conversation was included because it's not going to happen. They are not going to be final 2, and they are not going to be 2 out of the final 3. One of them will be getting booted at F4. As for Eliza and the immunities, I just have a hunch that it will play out, and it's reasonable to assume she can do it given her competition (unless there is another IC involving a pig) . She outperformed Chris, Twila and Scout in the physical RC last week and in the speed/mental IC this week. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

Capn2patch 2785 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-10-04, 02:12 PM (EST) 30. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I'd like to chime in here and say that this next TC is between Chris and Eliza. Even though Chris would secure F3 by voting for Twila last night and having a Chris/Eliza/Julie F3, he sees his end game between himself and Twila or Scout in the F2. This decision predicated by jury votes. Note Chris's comment several times last night "I have to play the game'. Which brings up his tactical error last night of alienating Eliza. Eliza realizing she no longer has an ally, faces the same choices. It's 50/50 to take Chris in the F2 but she dramatically increases her odds by taking T/S in the F2. What will make this difficult to predict since we have no vidcaps, is who will win II at F4. We can only go by F4 challenges from the past and who from these four would have any advantage. It's self-evident if Chris or Eliza win II that they move on to the F3, but if Twila or Scout win, it will be choice for them for who moves on. Judging by what Twila said at TC last night I would think that Eliza would be an F4 fatality if that were the case. Can you hear it? It’s a Syren.   Top

volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 04:18 PM (EST) 64. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Unless Eliza wins immunity she is gone at F4 IMHO, because Chris really is calling the shots. Twila goes to Chris and asks who they are voting off and she tells Scout. Twila has said numerous times she doesn't care who gets booted...just tell her who to vote off. The writing is on the wall for Eliza and she realized it at the last TC. If she doesn't win immunity there is no leverage she has to pull the other women over to her side. What does she promise them? A final three birth? Their side is already on the final three side. I think Twila/Scout are even tighter than their edit. So, they don't care who goes at final 4 as long as they stay together. If Eliza wins immunity then I think this is where things get mucky and does! I think Jiffy's little quote about the game being up in the air in the second half will remain. Eliza wins immunity and blows the game plan right out of the water.   Top

macamrox 76 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-10-04, 11:30 AM (EST) 14. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I agree Brownroach. I believe that either Eliza or Chris will be next to go. If Chris, Twilla or Scout win the next immunity challenge, they will vote off Eliza (Chris will realize that Eliza has 3 friends on the jury who would support her at final 2). However, I think Eliza will continue on her winning streak and vote Chris out with Twilla and Scout. She realizes her chances of winning one final immunity against the 2 remaining burlies are pretty good. One thing that keeps bothering me about the "Survivor-edit" which Eliza is receiving -- for some reason it reminds me of S4's Kathy, and she came in 3rd place, in what was perhaps the most dissappointing final 2s in Survivor history (Amazon excluded).   Top

cadfile 176 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 11:30 AM (EST) 15. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Here is my view: Chris is in deep doo doo with Eliza BUT as we have seen in several eps. where Eliza has been crossed she is has been easy to smooth over - prime example was her and Ami. Ami was not her friend yet Eliza was hurt to have to boot her. The women are not together at this point and neither Twila nor Scout are even thinking about booting Chris. Chris, T, and Eliza are favorites to win F3 IC. If Chris wins he will be F2. If Eliza wins she will take Chris just because she hates T. I don't see Eliza thinking the game through (the jury end game). Her better play is to keep T. If T wins IC then we might see a tie breaker since unless T is talked out of it she will want to take Scout to F2. Booting Julie was Chris' best move last night just because Julie was a strong player for the challenges. I think he is shown to be playing the game. He is confident in the confessionals yet contrite in public as he should have been. Had he been smug like Ami then his chances Sunday would have been almost nil. I also want to point out that Scout was practically missing from the episode and the seems to point not to her being F3 but being the possible next boot. The may mean Eliza wins IC because she would be the next boot if not because the Chris, T, and Scout aliance is still there and Chris vote for Juile keeps that aliance in tact. Chris is in control right now and unless he pulls a Colby he has a good shot at winning provided he makes it to F2. -- Doug Cousin Eddie: Every time Catherine would turn on the microwave, I'd pee my pants and forget who I was for about half an hour.   Top

LittleRED 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 11:37 AM (EST) 16. "Chris/Eliza" I know there is a lot of discussion about whether Chris and Eliza will be able to make Final 2 against such a "strong" Twila/Scout alliance, but wasn't Twila the one throughout the season so concerned with going to a tie? I think she would turn on Scout to avaoid a tie and move forward. I also think that may be why she's being edited to be kindof crazy and mean right now. It gives her an excuse when she turns on Scout. I think we will see 4- Scout 3- Twila 2- Eliza 1-Chris. IMHO.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:00 PM (EST) 17. "I'll try......" to keep my observations to editing and not about who votes for who, etc. (I'll do that in the other threads, so don't you all worry ) Lets just start with the quotes I found interesting: Eliza: About winning the rest of the ICs--I think this was put in here bc it will happen...and the steady "growing" edit of Eliza supports her making F2. Chris: Many quotes about TRUST...about none of the women trust each other but they all trust him~~will they realize that he is too well liked and boot him at F3 when he does NOT "OUTBALANCE" the other 2 women (or at least one of them, Eliza) in F3 IC. Also the quote about the horse and crossing water...something like "We had a problem at first...it was a trust thing... but then it was alright" Couldn't the same thing be said about the women after the merge. At first the women (please don't get on me about comparing women to a horse, it's what was there) did not trust Chris but now things are better. This also goes back to the fact that they will see that Chris is NOT the best F2 to take because all the women (except maybe Leann because she was ousted earlier) have come to trust and like Chris. Scout-"Watch out, Twila, Eliza's gonna get you" She will and so will Chris and Scout, for that matter. Twila: "SHUT THE *&#$ UP YOU *&#&#&*#&@ (#()$*&&$@#&()$&@" Um...okay...her edit has become way too negative to go any further~~I agree with the master VS she is gone at F4. Chad--it wasn't a quote, it was the way he reacted to ELIZA when she blathered on about something at TC (I think about who deserves to be there) He rolled his eyes...why show it...foreshadowing of his possible non-vote for Eliza (see I can't get through this darn post without commenting on jury votes, etc. I tried ) _____________ Overall, I see Chris' edit yesterday as very disturbing. He was seen as vacillating to Eliza, etc. but very cocky in private confessionals..... I kept saying last nite "Chris is getting the Rob C edit" (although the people that I was watching with don't pay attn to the editing like we do...they all were so surprised by the Julie boot--I said it was there for you to see for the last 3 weeks... oh well) Chris--the person doing all the conniving (or deciding or whatever you want to call it) the behind the scenes man at the beginning, surprisingly he is still around....but he just doesn't quite get to the end bc he can't clinch the F3 IC. It just is too close to Rob C. for me to think he goes anywhere else but at F3 and another Crappy F2 is born... (I don't think I was as ever as upset, etc. about Survivor Finale as when Jenna won and ousted Rob C.--this Sunday will bring back all those bad memories ) Therefore, who is left but Scout to take to the F2...Eliza has got to be thinking who is easier to beat and she HAS to think that Chris can beat her easier than Scout can. She is not dumb she'll do as Jenna did in S6 and go the easy route. Now whether Scout has a winner's edit...I do not know. I'm leaning towards the growing, constant, more positive edit Eliza is getting as winner....but Scout was the constant harmony builder, etc. throughout this season...I now think the vote will be closer than most think..... How'd I do, VS?   Top

cadfile 176 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 12:14 PM (EST) 18. "RE: I'll try......" >Overall, I see Chris' edit yesterday >as very disturbing. He was >seen as vacillating to Eliza, >etc. but very cocky in >private confessionals..... I kept saying >last nite "Chris is getting >the Rob C edit" (although >the people that I was >watching with don't pay attn >to the editing like we >do...they all were so surprised >by the Julie boot--I said >it was there for you >to see for the last >3 weeks... oh well) I don't see Chris' editing as being cocky. He was stating the obvious - the women are not together and until last night they all trusted Chris. His aliance is still together and now they are even more solid with Julie gone. Rob C. on the other hand had been cocky because he was unaware how disliked he was at the end. Everybody had something negative to say about him behind his back yet there he was in the confessional talking about he had the power blah blah blah. He still can't get over his suprise boot (to him anyway). I haven't seen any scenes of T, Eliza, or Scout talking bad about Chris behind his back. I haven't seen any since the women talking about keeping Chris around shortly after the merge. Chris has also got a large share of the confessionals about game play. That leads me to believe he makes it to F2. Well he has a good chance - he could muck it up - but he controls his own destiny. -- Doug Cousin Eddie: Every time Catherine would turn on the microwave, I'd pee my pants and forget who I was for about half an hour.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 01:02 PM (EST) 26. "RE: I'll try......" I agree it's not unthinkable that Scout could win, if you analyze the jury. Just don't feel that her editing is that of a "winner"...but maybe the editors didn't have a lot to work with -- she's not anywhere near as interesting as I thought she might be before the premiere. But she does seem to be least frazzled one there now. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:20 PM (EST) 19. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I would be surprised if Eliza didn't win the rest of the ICs. Her quote is very interesting, but you have to look at her competition. She's faster than everyone, and probably more book smart. Strength is probably the only thing going against her right now. And that might really hurt her in the F3. We've seen this sort of Final 4 before. A. Survivor 1 -Richard/Rudy vs. Kelly/Susan at Tribal Council. When the vote turned out to be a tie between Richard and Sue, Kelly changed her vote. B. Survivor 4 -Vee/Kathy vs. Paschal/Neleh. Ah, the dreaded purple rock. C. Survivor 8 Rupert/Jenna vs. Amber/Rob. Jenna ended up switching over to Lamber, and booted her partner. I think there is a great possibility that we might end up with an All-Stars Redux. We just gotta figure out who the "Jenna" is. Twila? Probably not. I would be extremely surprised if she joined Eliza and Chris to boot Scout. This leads me to believe that Scout is safe at the Final Four. Chris? Well, he might have joined Twila and Scout already. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chris/Eliza pact is just a smokescreen. Eliza? Less likely than Chris, but more so that Twila. If she wins Immunity, she may try to get revenge against Chris and vote him off. Of course, she may try to hold onto her. Scout? It's a possibility. I'm not too sure how willing Scout is to avoid a tie. I think we might be seeing another tie-in with Marquesas. Remember how unlikeable Neleh was in the final five or six? Remember that chewed up mint she offered everyone? Twila is definitely getting a "Neleh" editing, heading down the home stretch. I'm not sure exactly why. In Marquesas, I believe that Neleh was edited so negatively to justify a Vecepia win. When the winner is someone UTR like Vee, MB must make a more conscious effort to make the other F2 player less worthy. This might be why Twila's received so much negative editing. If someone like Scout won the game, MB would probably *have* to edit Twila accordingly. This Final Four would make me sick 4. Eliza (she can't win IC though) 3. Chris (makes his statement about Twila and Scout ironic) 2. Twila (wins IC) 1. Scout I believe that if Twila does make the Final 3, there is a possibility that she can win an endurance IC. Remember the pole Immunity that she won (beating Chad)... There are so many possibilities out there. This is probably the only one that would allow for a Scout win though, and that would make me sick. A 2004 holiday treat from Mon Cherie. Jims' Random Thoughts   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:33 PM (EST) 21. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Very Interesting look at things Jims!! I had not thought of Twila as getting a Neleh edit ala S4 but it is a possibility.. like I said in my post above, something is gnawing at me that Scout may end up winning this...and then we'll have to hospitalize FP, the poor thing..   Top

Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:41 PM (EST) 24. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Yeah, with all the attention on Chris and Eliza, I get this nagging feeling that we're forgetting something... Also, another thought: Remember Chris' quote about sitting back and letting the others vote each other out? Isn't that what Scout's doing now? A 2004 holiday treat from Mon Cherie. Jims' Random Thoughts   Top

Capn2patch 2785 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-10-04, 02:18 PM (EST) 31. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Remember Chris' quote about sitting back and letting the others vote each other out? Isn't that what Scout's doing now? To me, Scout's edit is one of being irrellevant and therefore her actions have no direct bearing on the game. Can you hear it? It’s a Syren.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 01:11 PM (EST) 27. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" LAST EDITED ON 12-10-04 AT 01:13 PM (EST) and then we'll have to hospitalize FP, the poor thing.. Amen, e, amen....you are sooooo right, my little pretty... Well, frankly I do think Chris is playing well and knows that a little damage control will indeed placate the little one, Eliza. I think if E were to win the IC, that Chris will be able to break S and T up. Go to both of them and say, hey, it WILL be a tie if you don't decide to go over with us...Twila is so freaked out by the tie I can see her agreeing to it. The woman is desparate and will do anything. Scout on the other hand knows if it's a tie and it comes down to another tiebreaker challenge that she is out, no doubt about it. So, imo, Chris is still in control and I am so glad, I just hope he can somehow weasel into the F2....please don't let that hippy, martyr, complainer, whiner, lady win......... Strictly by the editing however I would guess Twila at F4, Scout at F3 and Chris and Eliza at F2.....please let it happen!   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:41 PM (EST) 23. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I would be surprised if Eliza didn't win the rest of the ICs. Her quote is very interesting, but you have to look at her competition. I just remembered there was another interesting Eliza/immunity quote from Twila, something to the effect of, "this is the one day you know you're not going home, try to enjoy it." Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 12:35 PM (EST) 22. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" You do deserve the much bigger pats on the back. My small victories are few and far between, so they take on significance in my eyes, but over all, you da (wo)man. I usually have brilliant flashes of insight only realize you had it first But Julie's story, that was mine. OK it was yours first, but after I stole it, then it was mine. To Business: Yeah, Twila is being edited to be the grinch that needs to go. There was some misdirection (but not as much as I would expect) that Eliza, when her IC term is up would be the focus of Twila and Scout, and I think she will be, but I suspect her comment about winning the rest of ICs presages just that, and this will short circuit any attempt by T or S to vote her out at the next TC. And no one is seeming to consider Chris for a boot, so good bye Twila (or Scout). Twilas story will have started with her depiction as a somewhat sympathetic underdog, an outsider with no social skills. Then some hints that she might have some game skill are included. So at that point she was someone for whom the audience has sympathy and they may have felt that that she deserved to go far in the game. This is evidenced by the many comments to that effect on these boards (we are part of the audience, after all). And the references to doing all this for her son added to her perceived persona. Then, after the merge she won an IC by hanging on by her teeth (nice metaphor, I'm sure MB was grateful for this gift), which again, won her some sympathy. Then her meaness starts being accented more. And her famous promise on her sons life (head?), seemingly betraying her earlier comments about her son. Then her blaming her uncomfortable ness with having made those remarks, on Eliza (who undoubtedly was prodding in that regard). This evil edit is about complete, and, if she goes next, her story will be complete, and she will have deserved (in the eyes of the MB manipulated audience) to go. Not as complete as Julie's story, but with more interest. Scout is getting pretty grinchy too (as you point out), her comment during the banana discussion about how Eliza's barb really "got Twila that time" was mean. And her overt rooting for Twila at the end of the RC, well not too diplomatic considering Either Chris or Eliza might well have to make a decision whether to or not to include her in the F2.   Top

forehead 932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 12-10-04, 01:00 PM (EST) 25. "forehead's musings" VS, I will always pat you on the back I agree with most of what you said all season long. And as I am much less eloquent than you, I typically don't post much here. At F4, however, I have a slightly different take on Scout. So, I'll try to take a stab at this... Eliza’s key quote on wanting to win ICs. Don’t worry, it’s going to happen. MB is all pigged out – no more pig challenges. Eliza can win any challenge as long as it doesn’t involve pigs. Early in the season, a quote by Scout: Eliza’s on the top of my list (on who she wants to vote for). Now, really, Scout has wanted to vote for Eliza since day 1, and she has failed to do so in the same way she has failed at each and every challenge. Irony, oh irony, Scout couldn’t wait to vote for Eliza, but she never has and never will. Eliza wins IC at F4 and F3 (JP’s quote – you can talk all the numbers you want, but IN is the wildcard – foreshadowing that now seems to indicate Eliza will win the last ICs). She has unfinished business with the “little one”, and it will happen at F2. Irony, oh irony, Scout finds out the “little one” isn’t so easy to beat… Not to mention Chris’ earlier quote “Scout will burn Eliza” – too late, Scout will not get the opportunity anymore. She could have done it when even Eliza’s best pal Ami was willing to vote out Eliza, but no, she had to accomplish more that episode. She saved Eliza (with the needed convincing by Chris)… Could irony be any better? Chris giving the farm away: yes, Eliza F3, uh, yeah of course F2. Chris really disappointed last night. He thinks he has it all wrapped up for F3 with Twila and Scout. How can you forget about IC??? Not to mention that he just lost Eliza’s and Julie’s jury votes, IF he were to make it to F2. But after the last TC, Eliza is going to think twice about bringing Chris to the F2 after she wins the F3 IC. No need to waste any words on Twila in this thread. VS already has made it blatantly clear that Twila got the 4th place edit. Chris' edit went downhill, I concur with emydi – looks like 3rd place. Last night gave me the impression that if you’re not a spoiler watching the show, wouldn’t you want to root for the underdog Eliza?? Scout continued to talk down to Eliza – calling her “little one” in her face, sitting smugly together with Twila not going to tell Eliza where the food is buried. Who is being little here? Moreover, I haven’t seen this yet, but I read somewhere that the Insider has a clip where Scout is helping Eliza with a bandage for Eliza’s hand. Now, why would MB leave that out? If Scout is the big mother figure going to win the $1M, I’d think he would certainly LEAVE that in the show. No, he relegated it to the Insider. Last night’s editing screamed to me: 4 Twila 3 Chris 2 Scout 1 Eliza forehead   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 01:42 PM (EST) 28. "RE: forehead's musings" Forehead, I think your musings on Scout are great! Re: fourth place editing vs. third place editing -- is there really much of a difference? It's one episode and both casualties will occur in the first hour. I bring this up because I don't see how Twila will leave next if, as most people here seem to believe, Eliza's wish comes true and she wins the F4 immunity. Scout has no reason to vote against Twila, because if there is a tie-breaker challenge there is a chance Twila could win it. And I said elsewhere, why would Eliza conspire to help Chris by creating a tie? He double-crossed her and she has the best chance of winning F3 immunity without him around, along with two disliked people to choose from in going to F2. Chris's talk about all the women trusting him came crashing down at TC when Eliza realized that *she* cannot trust him. I think we were left with this as the more immediate problem that Eliza will rectify first. It seems more fitting to me, storywise, that Eliza deals with her long-time nemeses at Final 3 and Final 2. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 01:55 PM (EST) 29. "RE: forehead's musings" You're starting to convince me BR!! But, I'm sure someone will come along to convince me of some other scenario..that's why I *heart* this thread and all the editor/spoilers!   Top

Gingerman28 380 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 12-10-04, 02:22 PM (EST) 32. "RE: forehead's musings" The FINAL IMMUNITY CHALLENGE on Sunday is reported to be a test of endurance that involves a bow and arrow. Of the four possiblities who has the strongest arms? Will the test be to pull back a native bow and the one holding it and the arrow in place (without it falling off) the longest wins? This would be a new one for sure. But who has the stronger arms? Chris or Twila? They are both highway workers.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 12-10-04, 03:26 PM (EST) 35. "RE: forehead's musings" I think I will just sit back and read I must say, though I have heard to the contrary (that this season was boring) this has been one of the most interesting seasons in terms of editing. Really, any of these four could have an edit of making it to the final two. The perplexing thing is pulling it all together from day one. Eliza reached an all time high in her editing and could be the little engine that could and did. However, I did also equate her to a Kathy as well where she was so redeemed, but booted. Chris's story just in terms of succeeding in the power hold of the women is worthy of final two as well Scout and her maintaining harmony and though involved directly in shifts that caused tension seemed to fade out behind someone else's more "evil" edit change Twilla and her desperate need for money, sympathy as to her plight of being with the women, her being torn throughout, getting enough game to last and swearing on her son when we ALL know how much she loves that boy. A tie is then broken by a challenge. If this were to be the case, we can only surmise what the challenge could be and who would win it. Chris has established that S/T are his two and Eliza knows this but Eliza also dislikes S/T intensely which makes me question if she would even consider approaching them and I do not think this would happen. For what it is worth, Eliza seems only to "betray" if that person is going to betray her. The way everything was highlighted in the promo, it would seem to suggest Scout would go (UTR), then Eliza (Eliza always in danger), then Twilla (the MOUTH) and Chris (Survived the women) in the end; this is solely a brief response to when I saw this Naturally I don't like this in terms of the way the editing went. I think I will have more and more to post later   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-04, 04:33 PM (EST) 43. "RE: forehead's musings" Eliza also dislikes S/T intensely which makes me question if she would even consider approaching them and I do not think this would happen. Yet we know, VS, that despite all the animosity we see, Eliza was ultimately more upset at Ami for having voted for her rather than at Scout and Twila who never wrote her name down. Chris has been all over Eliza to trust him, first in the plan to get rid of Leann, then at the reward when Ami was trying to work on her, then last night when she believed they were voting for Twila. For what it is worth, Eliza seems only to "betray" if that person is going to betray her. Yes and now Chris has lied to her, which cannot make her feel very comfortable about trusting him. We know that Eliza gets paranoid at the drop of a hat, and Chris clearly indicated by his vote last night that he has his own agenda regardless of what he tells Eliza. OTOH, Eliza knows exactly where she stands with Twila and Scout. She doesn't like them and they don't like her. She'd like to see them gone, and they her, and they all know it. It needn't be a situation of her approaching them or vice versa. With immunity, Eliza may see it as a good opportunity to get rid of the unknown quantity (Chris) first. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

alwaysintruble1 2878 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-10-04, 10:50 PM (EST) 55. "RE: forehead's musings" I've never posted in these threads, but I wanted to bring something up here. OTOH, Eliza knows exactly where she stands with Twila and Scout Agree completely here, and also believe that Chris is in the same position. Twila and Scout sre going to stick with each other to the end, and while both Chris and/or Eliza have a better chance of winning final immunity against these two, they would both do better to break them up at F4, and then take the remaining one to F2. Also, why have we been given so much info on ties, and what the tiebreakers would be if a tie occured. I think that is the biggest editting clue that has been given to us for the F4 TC. Whether Chris or Eliza wins II at F4, what good would it do to vote against the other one. If they stick together no matter what, they can force a tie and break up T/S. Whoever has II still has the chance to win final II and make F2, and can always use the excuse of "you guys are going to take each other to F2 anyway, so why not try and break you up" to Twila/Scout if the tie breaker goes the wrong way. Also, Chris/Eliza keeps the jury vote of the other because they at least tried to help out by causing a tie. All this editing about what the tiebreakers would be completely pointless if at somepoint there wasn't a tie to show us. My opinion is that Eliza wins F4 II and a tie is created between Twila/Chris, who have be the ones who discused a tie the most, and expressed their fear of one. As to who would win, I'll leave that to the better spoilers, but I really think were going to see a tie a F4 Holliday wishes from Alwaysintruble, created generously by Syren   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 05:45 PM (EST) 66. "RE: forehead's musings" I'll admit that all the talk about what happens at a tie vote suggests that there will be one -- but I also remember lots of speculation during S4 that the constant reference to giving away immunity meant it was going to happen at some point, but it never did (though the General claimed he offered it to Tammy at her boot TC on condition that the others would not then vote for him). I'm still inclined to believe that Chris's statement to Eliza "we'll be three of the Final 2" is an omen that they won't be. So I'm putting my money on Chris leaving at F4, either because Eliza votes against him or because he loses a tie-breaker challenge. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 06:30 PM (EST) 67. "RE: forehead's musings" I don't think it would be smart on Chris or Eliza's part to force a tie. Why risk it? I think that would be really stupid on Chris' part and if it is his downfall...he deserves it!   Top

forehead 932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 12-10-04, 04:40 PM (EST) 44. "RE: forehead's musings" "Re: fourth place editing vs. third place editing -- is there really much of a difference? It's one episode and both casualties will occur in the first hour." That certainly makes sense, BR! Chris could go 3-1, or lose a 2-2 tiebreaking challenge against Twila (pole, anyone?). "It seems more fitting to me, storywise, that Eliza deals with her long-time nemeses at Final 3 and Final 2." Also a very good point...   Top

redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-11-04, 10:52 AM (EST) 58. "RE: forehead's musings" I agree with alot of your thoughts forehead but my take on what will happen follows a much different path. I agree that Eliza will win the Final 4 IC. That will be the end of her IC run with her winning 2 in a row. Next we will have the Final 3 IC. Again most are figuring that it will be some kind of endurance challange like past final 3 ICs. This is where I feel EPM will throw us a real curveball. Since we have no idea what the final 3 challenge will entail I forsee the one person no one gives a chance to win this challenge pulling out the upset of the year and actually winning it. Scout will finally get her chance to burn Eliza and she will take it big time by choosing Chris to go with her to the final 2. RedBeard   Top

aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 12-10-04, 03:10 PM (EST) 34. "Clay" Is Twila getting the Clay edit? Scout is certainly using her that way so that if it is Twila/Scout in F2, Scout would win. Maybe Chris sees her that way too? In either case, Twila could be F2. Also, using confessional analysis. Scout was invisible last episode. Does this suggest an F4 boot? I could see Twila dumping Scout if it meant avoiding a tie. ©Kittyloaf Creations, 2003 Pessimist: Things couldn't possibly be any worse. Optimist: Oh yes they could   Top

Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 07:56 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Clay" I was thinking about the Confessional Analysis throughout the ep, aethelstan, yeah. Scout was nowhere to be seen. According to the Confessional Analysis Theory, Scout is next to go. Of course, I don't understand WHY Scout would be the next to go; it makes no sense from a gameplay standpoint. The only way Scout can go is if Twila bails out of their alliance, which seems unlikely at this point -- or if there is a tie, and... hmmmm, now I'm seeing possibilities for Scout to go next. If there's a challenge to break a tie-break, Scout would almost certainly lose. Or perhaps Twila would switch her vote in the second round of voting; we know Twila is violently allergic to ties. But I see Scout losing a tiebreak challenge more easily than I see Twila bailing on their twosome. Perhaps Chris and Eliza, realizing that there'll be a challenge to break a tie, decide that Scout is the more likely person to lose to whomever of Chris/Eliza is on the chopping block, and so they choose Scout as their target. For what it's worth, I think all the editing showing Eliza as appalled at Chris' decision last night is misdirection. She knows perfectly well that if she doesn't win immunity from here on out, he is her only hope of making it to F2. While I don't think Chris is getting Winner's Edit any more, and Eliza hasn't yet struck me as getting Winner's Edit, I still think they're the F2.   Top

RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 11:51 AM (EST) 59. "RE: Clay" Perhaps Chris and Eliza, realizing that there'll be a challenge to break a tie, decide that Scout is the more likely person to lose to whomever of Chris/Eliza is on the chopping block, and so they choose Scout as their target. Now that is a very interesting thought. Given all the talk of tie breakers, it seems that a tie breaker is more likely at this point than in any recent Survvior shows. It would make perfect sense for E/C to make Scout a tiebreaker target. But thenagain, sense doesn't always show up in the players' gameplay. Your 2003 & 2004 College Football Pool Ultimate Prize Winner! Yup, it's a Syren!   Top

memacmur 359 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 12-10-04, 03:30 PM (EST) 37. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Jeez. Read this thread on Friday, and now I don't have to think much until the finale is over. My take for what little it is worth, is this: Chris should be working on Scout/Eliza to get Twila booted at the F4. If Twila wins immunity, Eliza is pretty much assured of being toast. Chris is smart enough to play along to keep his position. Scout should bow out at F3 regardless, which if she somehow wins will be a great twist all by itself. If Chris survives, he should win the jury regardless of whom he is up against: So I predict Twila goes first (the villianess), then Scout (the UTR player), then we see how big Eliza's eyes (quasi-hero one, who survived numerous threats at TCs along the way) get while she tries to persuade the jury to vote for her and not Chris (quasi-hero two, and the one who survived despite a near-disastrous start). Still, outside of Ami/Julie/Leeann, I don't see her able to pull it off. Your winner (much to Ami's man-hating chagrin) - Chris. Now to watch it all fall apart on Sunday! MEmacmur   Top

GuessItRains 700 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 04:23 PM (EST) 40. "Gotta Be Scout or Eliza" I've usually tried to analyze based on whether people are getting positive or negative edits. I agree with what almost everybody has said, especially VS, JimS, and a few others. The main thing I've picked up is that Twila can't possibly win. I'm not convinced it's a 4th place edit, but the positive and sympathetic early figure has turned into a grumpy, paranoid lunatic. If Twila won, EPMB wouldn't have hardened her so much over the last 3-4 weeks. As for Chris, I really can't see a Chris-Eliza ending at this point and I think Chris would demolish either Scout or Twila 6-1 at the end. The two men will vote for him and most of the women can't stand S/T. So if Chris was going to the finals, I would think they would be "softening" S/T and hardening Chris to make it look closer than it really is. Sort of like was done with Matthew-Jenna or Kim J-Ethan. And yet Chris is being shown as a strategic, confident player. Pretty positive overall. I think Scout could win. Why have we not seen her? Possibly because she's grumpy, incoherent, and fairly evil. And that's NOT the kind of winner we want. It's the "if you can't show anything nice, don't show anything at all" theory. And if "under the radar" Scout beats "grumpy, evil" Twila, well all is well in the world. Eliza has had one of those life-changing games. She would be an amazing winner. Comes in on the chopping block. Annoys everybody. But really grows. I just can't decide if she's Sandra, the one nobody thought would win who did, or Kathy, the one nobody thought would win but everybody was rooting for at S3 since they couldn't stand Vee or Neleh. My heart's picking Eliza. My head's picking Scout.   Top

pinchy 200 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-10-04, 05:09 PM (EST) 47. "RE: Gotta Be Chris" But that's beside the point. I'm intrigued with the possiblity of Twila at F2 with Chris. Many have said that she's getting too strong of a negative edit to make it past F3, but I think that the negative edit makes her an ideal candidate to go up against Chris at F2. Chris's edit could go either way, and feneral viewers are being led to think the votes would go against him up against any of the women (making him the "surprising winner" and fulfilling the Spirit stone prophecy). I think Twila's edit although taking a turn for the worse, has been full of raw honesty and authenticity. She is shown to be conflicted over her lie over her son's name. Even though she is paranoid and grumpy, she has been playing the game hard all along adn is certainly the one who needs to win it the most. They have played down her need to win and played up her gnarliness, so that her defeat at F2 won't be so disappointing us and Chris's win will be satisfactory. Chris just comes across as a schemer with heart. And as I mentioned in another post, he's the Robfather redeemed, and we will see his betrayal of friendship with Julie (Lex) healed at the final TC.   Top

GuessItRains 700 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 05:17 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Gotta Be Chris" First of all I have a hard time seeing a Chris-Twila final 2. Julie said last night she thought Twila had the best chance of beating Chris of any of them. It's not in Chris' strategic interest to take Twila over either Eliza or Scout and Chris has always played with strategy. Twila might pick Chris over Eliza, but never over Scout and I have a difficult time seeing Scout leave at F4. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I suppose in that case, we won't have a suspenseful TC, but it will be fun watching everybody mock Twila and vote for Chris.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 10:02 AM (EST) 56. "RE: Gotta Be Scout or Eliza" LAST EDITED ON 12-11-04 AT 10:03 AM (EST) Listen to your heart. Life's short. I really posted this to get the VC threads in order, Somhow an earlier thread was bumped haead of this, the current one.   Top

Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 04:28 PM (EST) 42. "As a Chris fan..." ...I have only this to say about the editing last night: Chris was given a very bad edit -- he was shown as exasperatingly lacking in the challenges, a cocky bugger in the confessionals, and a maker of elementary strategic errors (such as his conversation with Eliza where he foolishly blurts "Final 3" with her instead of lying and saying "Final 2"), which leads me to suspect, sadly, that he is not our winner. And now I am going off to sulk.   Top

DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 05:01 PM (EST) 45. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Holy buckets did this thread turn long in a hurry. I haven't had a chance to read everybodies input but there is theme going on, once again about Chris's strategy and possible cockiness. Last night, was the first time that I say Chris's strategy fleshed out to the final 2. More on that later. BR, I disagree that Eliza is mad or doesn't trust Chris. Eliza said to Chris earlier that she just couldn't vot for Julie while Twilla was still in the game. She even intoned to Chris that she may vote for Twilla anyway and go against him because of her dislike for Twilla. Eliza knows that her vote was not necessary to put Julie out and Chris didn't seem to have problem with that. Hmmmmm....This is about Eliza and Chris both playing the game all the way to the end with Eliza thinking that Chris would be her F2 opponent. Why wasn't Chris more adamant about Eliza sticking with the vote?? The reason is that Chris does not envision Eliza as his F2 oponent. Chris, sees the animosity going on between Eliza and Scout/Twilla. Those 3 are focused on each other to the exclusion of Chris who is just playing it cool. So here are my F4 to F3 scenerios: 1.I truly believe that Chris does not care one way or another whether he wins the next immunity. In his mind there are two ways things are going to play out. Eliza wins the IC and he is forced to vote for Scout along with Eliza who would never vote Chris out before those two. (Eliza has allowed her emotions for Chris to slip into the game a little bit.) Chris could either convince Scout to vote out Twilla or go up agaisnt him in a physical one-on-one challange. Chris wins either way. 2.Chris wins IC and he votes out Eliza. He has to betray someone at this point and it is better to betray Eliza even if this were to cost his vote with Eliza. With either Scout or Twilla as his finals partner he has a good chance at winning. If Chris betrays either Twilla or Scout he would not only potentially lose their vote but he could be matche up with Eliza in the finals. Which is not good at all. Chris knows that Ami, Leann and Julie are in Eliza's back pocket for sure. He would have Lea and Chad with the two wild cards being Twilla and Scout who would have to both vote for Chris in order for him to win and that is far from a garantee. 3.In the 3rd scenerio either Twilla or Scout win and then refer to #2 above. At this point in the game the only person who is playing the game without emotion is Chris and possibly Scout. Scout is feeling the sting of swearing on her sons life. It sounded so easy initially but it is really wearing her conscious. She is a basket case who is extremely paranoid. Even Chris felt a little bit of the sting of her paranoia. Eiza is taking the full weight of it along with Scouts dislike of Eliza from the very beginning of the game. I truly don't know what Twilla is thinking beyond getting rid of Eliza. This is important because I believe, baring a Scout victory at F4 IC Twilla is assured of F3. She may end up being the deciding factor. This is why, IMO, MB has been not letting us know her strategy beyond F4. Scout editing has taking a very start turn for the worse these last 3 episodes. The did show her warmly greating Chris and Jules upon their return from Yasur. I was very disappointed in her IC play. It was, dare I say, Rudy-like. I'm having big time second doubts about my thoughs on her a s potential IC spoiler. I'm going to stick with that for now, but I'm not as confident as I once was. Eliza is in this with Chris to the end and no one else. She plays this game with her emotions on her sleave. I'm not falling for that opened mouth look on her face when Julie was voted out. That was purely for the sake of the Jury. We need to remember that this woman is a drama queen witha capital Q. I doubt she ever rarely had a thought in her head that didn't go directly to her mouth. That piece of drama was given to us on a silver platter by EPMB to make us think that Julie does not trust Chris. I'm not buying it for one second. I liked that the reward was at Yasur volcano which was constantly erupting hmmmm.... Julie is a very smooth operator and tried to play Chris to the end. She used everything in her arsenal to win him over. Chris didn't buy any of it. Chris lost another physical challange to the women. I think it's important to take note on how reacts. He's only jokingly made one reference, that we've seen anyway , about losing to the women in physical challanges. Twilla hurt her knee/leg on that RC. That could play a very important role down the line. I doubt she gets the oportunity to put ice on hit in an elavated position, so she is just going to have to suffer. Most of the F3 challanges involve some sort of endurance involving standing. I haven't had a chance to look at the confessional thread, but it does appear that Scout had the fewest. DRONES   Top

GuessItRains 700 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 05:09 PM (EST) 46. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I guess unlike most other people I don't see Eliza sticking with Chris at this point. She looked genuinely shocked by Chris' vote. I think Eliza also is smart enough to know she can't beat Chris in a final. Sarge, Chad, Scout, and Twila would all vote against her. OTOH, she has a better shot against Scout and Twila. She would have taken Chris to the end since he was loyal to her; now that she's alone she'll use her head...if she has the chance. I also think everybody is blowing this "Twila hurt her leg in the RC" thing completely out of proportion. She fell down. It was good drama. She didn't seem to have any problem running around during the IC. Also keep in mind that Twila does well in any physical challenge not involving water. She might win the first IC, in which case I'm pretty sure Eliza gets the boot.   Top

DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 05:22 PM (EST) 49. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I don't agree with if Eliza trust Chris or not. I think she does and that was just misdirection by EPMB. You do make a point with Eliza's thoughts on who would be the best F2 would be for her. She has said it's Chris and I believe her. She has been almost honest to a fault as of late. She really hasn't betrayed anybody yet. She's the one who's been betrayed. Remember that Chris didn't betray her, he betrayed Julie. Chris never told Eliza that the he, Julie and Eliza were in any kind of alliance. I just think this is all smoke and mirrors by EPMB. DRONES   Top

GuessItRains 700 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-10-04, 05:29 PM (EST) 50. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I guess I'm just interpreting Eliza's look at TC as one of shock. Similar to the look she gave Lisa when Mia was booted. And Eliza was PLENTY mad at Lisa for that. My gut says Eliza isn't going to win immunity at F4, and then it's probably all moot anyway.   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 08:09 PM (EST) 52. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Newbie here, so please be kind. Of course I have no idea where this should be posted, but because, VS, I love your board and most of thoughts have be drawn from you and your amazing friends this is where I decided to commment. Nothing I state here comes from my own spoiling, it is purely tying together theories of those who post here. I agree with you that T goes this week. Combined with her recent negative editing and her and Chris's discussion of the purple rock in previous episode I believe that they face off this week in TC. Of course in order to happen Eliza must win immunity and target T, which could make sense given the ET conflict MB gave us in last week's episode (drawing Eliza's edited conflict from Scout to Twila). If Eliza wins Chris must vote with Eliza for T, even though he may prefer her over Scout, and, in order for Scout to stay in the game, she must turn on her alliance partner. However, Eliza winning the II also spells doom for Chris in the F3. This can be seen in game logic (I know, not important) and editing. Forced to vote for TS Chris never backstabs, insuring TS votes in the final. Should E win the F3 IC she must take Scout otherwise losing an easy 4-3 vote. Combined with Chris' check writing statement I have difficulty believing that both E and C find themselves in the final 2. Additionally Chris's little gaffe in the Final 3/Final 2 discussion with Eliza gives me pause. This can further be seen in Scout's and Chris' edit. Scout is showing an inability to win challanges and Chris's cockiness. MB may be showing us that you don't ever have to win immunity to make it to the F2. In the end Eliza's edit has been improving while Scout's has become more negative. She has a chance to win against Scout and little chance against Chris. VS has given us many reasons for this showdown and I agree that MB has provided us with redemtion on a Pulp Fiction scale. I realize this is a great deal of prophesizing and I have added little (if any) editing value but I thought I would throw my two cents in. I could be really wrong.   Top

oncebitten 145 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 08:14 PM (EST) 53. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Didn't Tina also never win II or anything and she wound up winning the game?   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-04, 08:44 PM (EST) 54. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" You are correct, however, for me it is not a question of whether or not she has won immunity, but how MB has edited her failure.   Top

DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-11-04, 10:18 AM (EST) 57. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Welcome MB always edits the winner in a certain way. That is, the winner is usually given a fairly consistent edit from beginning to end. Twilla was given the under dog edit in the beginning. She didn't like being in an all womens tribe and was glad when she left Yasur to join the Lopevi men. She worked over Sarge and saved herself in the first vote and then betrayed Sarge. After this point she started to get a negative edit as a paranoid and unpredictable. This is the edit of someone who finished either 3rd or 2nd and definately not 1st. Scout was given the edit of the wiser older woman in the beginning. She had sage comments in her confessionals and was on the inner circle of power on Yasur. Her edit started to change after the tribes merged and she joined up with Twilla again. MB started showing her physical limitations and and her negative comments about the younger women such as Eliza, Julie and Ami. Her confessional time was the lowest of anybody which is typical of MB hiding a player the episode before they get booted. She is being given a 4th place or 2nd place edit. I must say that I'm still bothered by key quotes about her burning Eliza. I also am not confinced that she doesn't win a key physical challange that puts her into F2. Eliza is a very interesting character. Her initial edit was that of being annoying and not liked by her tribe mates. Her mother even made mention of Eliza's mouth getting her in trouble. She turned on her young'uns alliance. Her name always seems to be mentioned as a potential boot candidate and she is somehow always protected. She is playing the game on two fronts, strategic and emotional. In the last vote she voted, in essence to keep Julie in the game because she liked her better than Twilla. Her edit is now one of an underdog and someone who has grown as a person. IMO this is not a winners edit. I go back to my Scout edit paragraph and say that she is done in. I can say with some certainty that she is not being given a 2nd or 3rd place edit. If she makes it past this week she has a strong possibility of going all the way. Chris IMO has been given the most consistent edit. It's a Brian Hedlick edit minus the sleaziness. From the beginning he has been scrambling to save himself. He made a key winning quote attributed to him early on, one that has stood the test of time. Another key quote of his is that he's been playing the game since they landed ont he beach. He has made alliances with almost everyone, except Twilla . He has played out very scenerios in his mind. He is playing the game based on strategy. He knew that even though he liked Julie a lot better than either Scout or Twilla it was a smarter move to vote her out. Chris has made a few gaffs along the way, but he has learned that this game is based on relationships and he has established positive relationships with almost everyone. I believe that he is being given the 4th place or the winners edit. DRONES   Top

RudyRules 8360 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 11:57 AM (EST) 60. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Drones, Good insight on the consistent editing of Chris vs. inconsistent editing of the 3 women. I will mull this over for a bit. Your 2003 & 2004 College Football Pool Ultimate Prize Winner! Yup, it's a Syren!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 12-11-04, 12:39 PM (EST) 61. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" LAST EDITED ON 12-11-04 AT 12:40 PM (EST) The poster who said they were a newbie (forgive me for not recalling the name ) welcome and please keep posting. The more observations, the better to ponder Just to point out to how the show is very manipulated so as to why I subscribe so much to this type of analysis At the Immunity Challenge, recall the 'neck and neck' status of Eliza and Julie? Never happened. If you watch Julie in her booth, Eliza is seen in the background running to the "finish" since we know that she was on her last puzzle. Yet, after they show Julie, they go to Eliza in her booth as if she was still solving the puzzle. This is classic "race to the finish" editing and it is also done quite often in discussions and confessionals. Now onto the quotes etc. emydi You hit the horse! I had the same thoughts At the IC (as discussed) Eliza "My first time" (winning IC) Note that at TC Eliza again reiterated she wanted to keep it; it was my first time. Comments like that and repeated then have me suggest that Eliza will go on to win another one and this is why I suspect she wins the final four immunity. Eliza "I just want her to go home now!" (re: Twilla) Foreshadowing? Chris (Upon the RC return) "She (Scout) is thinking the same thing I am, game time" (This was interesting as Scout/Chris hugged immediately and Chris offered up that everything was the same where he had to reassure Twilla. His comments about Scout really made me think that Scout is his true final two companion. No too mention his confessional that "Twilla is taking a road she doesn't need to take" Chirs (at volcano) "I don't know if I'll ever have an experience like that" (Would a million dollars compare?) and "It is saying goodbye" (to you?) Chris at RC "missing a piece of the puzzle" with "I didn't see that" Chris and Eliza The discussion focused on voting out Twilla, where was the Scout discussion. Was it there and edited or not discussed and why not? Chris "I know darm well you can influence Eliza" (If he can, perhaps someone else may be able to now as well?) Eliza "It is in your best interest to abandon an alliance to get further in the game" (Things to come?) Scout "She (Eliza) got you Twilla" (Foreshadowing perhaps?) Chris and Eliza discussion Chris: "Twilla and Scout, Scout and Twilla, that worried me a little bit" (talking about how they are closer - THIS signifies to me that he knows he should break this pair up) Eliza: "If we screw Twilla, can you imagine?" (Again, couple this with her wanting Twilla gone..........) Chris: "....to the final 3" Eliza "Final two!" Chris: "Well, yeah, I mean right" In rewatching everything, I will reiterate that Twilla does not look likely to last past final four and there has been a general agreement that it appears there has been much emphasis on a "tie" for something not to happen. My opinion is such Chris needs to split up Twilla and Scout and probably does not want to risk this at final three since Twilla could win a challenge. His concern over Eliza, now that she does not trust him may not be as worrisome as the T/S pairing since he knows Eliza's wrath towards S/T is probably stronger than her wrath of his vote for Julie. In addition, he is counting on the fact he can influence Eliza Again I would suggest that Chris talks to Eliza and influences her and the S/T pair is slated to be broken up because Chris needs this. If Twilla is then gone, at final three we already have ascertained that Eliza is deemed final three but not final two in Chris's eyes. Obviously we cannot foresee who wins this challenge but the editing deems to me that the route to final two per Chris is with Scout. As of now Scout needs to Chris to win. Who does Eliza want? Understand that this thread is never designed to guess boots based on spoiling but how the storylines and characters progress. The editing turned on these people in some fashion with Chris (as mentioned) as the most consistent. Eliza's huge "high" and Twilla's major "low" strikes me though as potentially not reaching the end. I don't subscribe to "winners" edit. This is completely subjective in my opinion but there is usually substance to the person THROUGHOUT the season to see how they ended where they did. Twilla's negative emergence this late in the game is not good Is this possibly an final two "villian", perhaps. But Twilla was edited so sympathetically throughout that to me this does not suggested final two as MB does not usually do this. Chris vs. Scout Man v. Woman. Balance/No balance. Palpable story line which would play out nicely Eliza vs. Scout Huge backstory and ironic if they ended up together to the end when they both wanted each other out from the beginning. In terms of editing these are the "stories" the editing dictated mostly. However, this is not an exact science but one thing this thread DOES do, is to foresee the end players when that is sometimes very hard to do in a week by week boot scenario. At this time, I am leaning towards Eliza leaving third. As we mentioned, she now has that "growth" edit that is remniscient of Kathy, not quite making it to the end but considered the winner to many. Chris vs. Scout (while I still agree a hard road that Chris would get) should Chris win that challenge at final three. This is WHAT he wants. Also man vs. woman and again the first challenge with Jeff It is down to you two Should Scout get the challenge she needs (and again a lot of us do think all the mentions of her physical problems rising up indicate something) it would almost seem fitting she take Eliza.   Top

DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-11-04, 03:49 PM (EST) 62. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Great thoughts as usual VS. Your thoughts on Twilla has made me change my final 4 order of finish. "Twilla's negative emergence this late in the game is not good Is this possibly an final two "villian", perhaps. But Twilla was edited so sympathetically throughout that to me this does not suggested final two as MB does not usually do this." That's a great point. I expect some redemption editing by MB on the part of Twilla. "Chris vs. Scout Man v. Woman. Balance/No balance. Palpable story line which would play out nicely Eliza vs. Scout Huge backstory and ironic if they ended up together to the end when they both wanted each other out from the beginning." There seems to be a consesus, and I agree, that there will not be an F2 or T/S or C/E. As you pointed out Twilla is not being given an F2 edit. That leaves us with only the two possibilities listed above. I'm just going with my gut feeling on the F2. IMO, Eliza and Chris would both make great ultimate survivor champs based on the editing. This has to be a F4 that makes MB very happy. DRONES   Top

volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 04:30 PM (EST) 65. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" VS, from the Ami episode on I have been thinking that Chris wanted to take Scout with him to the final 2 and I think the hug quote proved that to me. I agree with most all the other things you have noted!   Top

braveheart 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-11-04, 07:53 PM (EST) 68. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Got this over at Sucks. If true it holds up with some of our theories. "The folks at Unofficial Survivor Guide have confirmed that Scout makes the Final three. They have also confirmed that the voting Urn will be an ornate skull, tribal colours are Red and Yellow, Merge colour is Orange, and a few other things, not to mention the school bus driver was unable to drive herself to the final 2." www.unofficialsurvivorguide.com Here's the link: http://p085.ezboard.com/fsurvivorsucksfrm2.showMessage?topicID=17891.topic   Top

volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 09:12 PM (EST) 69. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" The link didn't work for me. But who is the school bus driver? Eliza is a pre-law student, Twila is in highway repair and Scout is a rancher. What are they talking about?   Top

braveheart 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-11-04, 10:05 PM (EST) 70. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Sorry Volsfan, I don't know how reliable that is but the folks over at Sucks seem to be running with it. Anyway, I just don't see Scout going next. Eliza will be next if she doesn't win IC. Because of the editing stated above it has to be Eliza or Twila next.   Top

volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 10:55 PM (EST) 71. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" I am confused. There is no school bus driver?   Top

Capn2patch 2785 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-11-04, 11:19 PM (EST) 72. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" LAST EDITED ON 12-11-04 AT 11:38 PM (EST) Here's the link. The thread is called - About Scout (Definite Spoiler Info Inside) Can you hear it? It’s a Syren ETA: Nothing going on that thread, just banter. The refence to USG was made back in August. Didn't bother reading thru it all but at the time there was some post from someone ( aschool bus driver?) giving some advance info.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-04, 11:58 PM (EST) 73. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Twila had several jobs, HWY repair, weekend work, maybe also School bus driver.   Top

braveheart 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-12-04, 11:26 AM (EST) 74. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" Thanks Kingfish...you may be right!   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-13-04, 09:24 AM (EST) 75. "RE: The Final Four-The Players, The Game, The Editing" LAST EDITED ON 12-13-04 AT 09:50 AM (EST) Just wanted to comment on the F4 post finale. Eliza was shown really to not have too much game...the little one who survived time and time again, but not from her own merit, but from the direction of others. She really played the part of the pawn, and at the end game, the people who played her did just that, she was out. Scout as well never proved to have much game but rather hitched her wagon to 2 power players, Twila and Chris. This got her as far as it could have... Twila-the editing really led her perfectly to F2. Started out neutrally with Twila, then positively while at Lopevi and then when she directed Chris to orchestrate the Leann boot, but finally turned in the negative direction evolving her into the ruthless, evil, perfect F2 partner. Chris, I first want to congratulate KOfan that seemed to have his number from day one! Shown to have been so off balance and the first target at the Lopevi tribe, but some how survived through that. His editing was fairly even throughout the entire game. We had glimpses of him as emerging as the "secret" leader of the Lopevi tribe while "letting" Sarge appear to be. He had some great winner quotes, as the show is not about outbalancing, but outlasting. He sure knew when to keep his mouth shut when merged with the stronger Yasur women's tribe. He emerged to finally be a strong physical contender for the challenges as well at the end, by knocking out all of those that were more physically challenging before him. All in all, I think a most deserving winner, as he "started playing the game the minute he hit the island"! Frankly, I could'nt have been more thrilled with the way the game played out! The editing thread is such a valuable tool to use in predicting the outcome. It's facinating to watch VS and others in action! Thanks so much for this thread! Can't wait to get down to examining 20 "super survivor DAWS" in the next season! Thanks for an incredible job at dissecting the editing! Flowerpower   Top

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