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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 01:17 AM (EST) "A Mean Team" A pattern is starting to emerge in Camp Jaburu, and I am certain it is some strategic manipulation at play. It goes like this: Jeanne informs JoAnna that she saw the granola bar in Janet's bag, JoAnna informs the others (away from Janet's presence); Jeanne informs Christy about JoAnna's opinion of the immunity idol while JoAnna is nearby and ready to jump on Christy for "trash-talking" her (quotes because Christy really didn't trash-talk JoAnna, just had an opinion about one subject); Jeanne and JoAnna in tandem put the leadership bull's-eye squarely on Deena's back. It seems to me there is a strategy at play here, and a fairly decent one at that (for this stage of the game). The question is whether JoAnna is truly partnered with Jeanne or merely Jeanne's in-turn being manipulated pawn. Discuss. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: A Mean Team smokedog 02-28-03 1    RE: A Mean Team dabo 02-28-03 7  Mean Jeanne SuperClyde 02-28-03 2    RE: Mean Jeanne bubsy 02-28-03 3        RE: Mean Jeanne SurvivinDawg 02-28-03 4            RE: Mean Jeanne Bebo 02-28-03 5                RE: Mean Jeanne SurvivinDawg 02-28-03 6                    Revealed strategies NightScribe 02-28-03 11            RE: Mean Jeanne dabo 02-28-03 8            RE: Mean Jeanne Brownroach 02-28-03 10                RE: Mean Jeanne Rosewood 02-28-03 13  RE: A Mean Team Q 02-28-03 9  RE: A Mean Team GuessItRains 02-28-03 12  RE: A Mean Team frisky 02-28-03 14    RE: A Mean Team mockingbird 03-03-03 15        RE: A Mean Team Loree 03-04-03 16            RE: A Mean Team amylynne321 03-05-03 17

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smokedog 1885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 02-28-03, 01:27 AM (EST) 1. "RE: A Mean Team" My opinion is that Jeanne started buddying up to JoAnna as she was the biggest and strongest female. That was a good first choice as any. In Ep. 1 they genuinely seemed to be having a good time fishing together. Now when they lost their first IC to the boys, I believe Jeanne started to stir it up in order to deflect any votes from her. She set up Granolagate against Janet and may or may not have meant to pit JoAnna and Christy against each other. Now in Ep. 3, she has allied with JoAnna to make Deena the leader. In summary, Jeanne will align with JoAnna as long as possible in order to have a big strong ally. When the going gets tough, like next episode when JoAnna is voted off, look to Jeanne to be writing her name down. Jeanne is a player. JoAnna is a MANIPULATED PAWN.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 09:15 AM (EST) 7. "RE: A Mean Team" Addressing the issue in terms of manipulation vs. collaboration: The first ploy, Granolagate, could have been either. Jeanne could have manipulated JoAnna by revealing what she "knew' about the granola bar, knowing that the righteous JoAnna would not be able to withhold information about who was "cheating" from the others. Or the two could have collaborated on the ploy and determined that JoAnna would be more credible than Jeanne (even though she presented the information as having come initially from Jeanne) when presenting the information. Either way, the two worked in tandem. The second ploy, "Trash-Talk," seems to me more convuluted. Jeanne couldn't be certain of how Christy would respond, though there was a reasonably good chance that she would respond as she did respond. JoAnna's over the top reaction to that could have been unpredicted or planned, however (there is no in-between). If planned, though, what was the point? The third ploy, Crowning Deena, was clearly a collaboration. Frankly, I think Mean Jeanne is the one pulling the strings here, JoAnna is the follower. In fact, Jeanne may be headed ultimately for the classic Survivor accusation that she's playing the game hard/as hard as anyone/harder than anyone (which I've always thought an odd accusation since in fact it is a game). Mainly, though, I have observed in past Survivors that the actions of one or two players can have ramifications much later in the game, even after those players have been eliminated from the game, so I would like to get as good a handle on all of this as possible as it seems to be one of the primary situations in Camp Jaburu. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

SuperClyde 87 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-28-03, 01:48 AM (EST) 2. "Mean Jeanne" She's a good player so far, but she doesn't seem the brightest star in the constellation: by my calculations, she's misused approximately 30% of all the words she's uttered so far . . . What word did she use to nominate Deena for leader again? Does anyone remember?   Top

bubsy 246 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 02-28-03, 07:24 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Mean Jeanne" initiate -i think   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 07:41 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Mean Jeanne" Yes, it was "we're going to initiate you as leader". I agree with the premise of this thresd, also. Jeanne is really manipulating scenes and scenarios. Remember also that MB shows us failed strategies, and doesn't show us successful ones. So the fact that we're seeing this suggests that it backfires on her later. Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 08:10 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Mean Jeanne" So the fact that we're seeing this suggests that it backfires on her later. As I mentioned in the Shawna/Joanna thread, this pushes Deena toward the Young Ones alliance, giving them a 4-3 numerical advantage. That could be the main reason Jeanne's strategy fails.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 08:14 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Mean Jeanne" I have a slightly different thought on this, Bebo, which I just posted on my "Failed and Successful Strategies" thread, so please go there and get that thread hoppin'! P.S. Love that cop-car logo, Bebo! Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 02-28-03, 01:57 PM (EST) 11. "Revealed strategies" LAST EDITED ON 02-28-03 AT 01:59 PM (EST) I have always believed in this theory, that revealed strategies don't succeed, however, last night it was clearly revealed that Dan would be booted, and, in fact, he was. Not only was it revealed, but we heard Alex mimic Jiffy's reading of the boot order. So what do we do with this? Is MB starting to be more upfront with the editing? Is he moving into the mode of storyteller over "secret keeper"? I read an article recently that stated something about the secrets of Survivor not being nearly as guarded because the show has aged so much. Did anyone else read this? edited to add: Great ideas dabo, and I'll certainly be looking for manipulations by Jeanne. Let us not forget that she is a Marketing Director. Who knows how to play on people's fears, desires, and weaknesses more than those in the marketing/advertising world?   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 09:24 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Mean Jeanne" While I mainly do agree with the addage about revealed strategies, we have to also remember that this is television and there is a story being told. In terms of storytelling the addage which applies is that pivitol events must be shown, it is unavoidable. Granolagate and Crowning Deena were pivitol events in Camp Jaburu, MB had to deal with them no matter what. The thing with Christy may or may not lead to a pivitol event, but it made for dramatic television. I grant that Mean Jeanne's manipulation strategy will probably ultimately fail, if only because one thing it may not be able to overcome is the superior numbers of a voting alliance, but I do appreciate all insights and thoughts anyone may wish to include on these matters. SMILES ARE FREE   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 01:37 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Mean Jeanne" Well., stage one already backfired on Jeanne and Joanna: making bossy Deena a target. To the contrary, Deena is more popular and respected now, because she got the camp up and running smoothly. Shawna even said Deena's occasional bossiness is fine, because it's needed. I suspect that, stage one having failed, stage two will be implemented next week, when someone tries to countermand Deena by balking at doing her chores. Perhaps this will be Joanna? At Jeanne's suggestion?   Top

Rosewood 479 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 02-28-03, 02:59 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Mean Jeanne" If Jeanne was so keen on riding with another tribe member to merge, she should have chosen a less irritating partner. Joanna is very vulnerable to being booted early, and then where will Jeanne be? She needs to be building other alliances, if that's her strategy.   Top

Q 2569 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 02-28-03, 10:14 AM (EST) 9. "RE: A Mean Team" I too agree with this theory. But also agree that it will fail to some degree, ie, JoAnna will take the fall and Jeanne will help in her downfall (stab her in the back). I have the feeling Jeanne will do what it takes to make the merged tribe, so she can band together with the likes of Butch, etc. Her initiation of Deena will backfire on her. The granolagate stuff will come back to haunt her as well. I think that Shawna will be carried for a couple more vote cycles in order to maintain a voting bloc, as Bebo stated on other threads, etc. This will leave Jeanne, Joanna, and Christy vulnerable. Deena will work to save Christy and Joanna is the likely candidate to go. It is astonishing how foolish humans can be in groups, especially when they follow their leaders without question - States: The Bene Gesserit View. All States Are an Abstraction.   Top

GuessItRains 700 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 02-28-03, 02:08 PM (EST) 12. "RE: A Mean Team" My best take is that Jeanne is employing an Ethan strategy of sorts. In other words, she doesn't have any strong bonds with anybody out there and is simply trying to fly UTR by appearing to be nice and making other people much higher boot targets. Thus, she incites Christy to become hysterical, plays to Deena's bossy side, and gets Joanna to do her dirty work. That way these women will all be targeted before she is. It's possible she may have picked Joanna as a close but unpopular ally. If that's true, then I don't see how she will last too much longer than Joanna barring a swap or early merge.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-03, 04:11 PM (EST) 14. "RE: A Mean Team" LAST EDITED ON 02-28-03 AT 04:13 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 02-28-03 AT 04:12 PM (EST) I agree with those who say that crowning Queen Deena will backfire. I think that the coronation seems to have had some psychological impact on Deena. Before she was initiated, she was (or was edited to be) a bossy, know-it-all kind of person that everyone rolls their eyes at. Now, she issues orders in a much more low-key, friendly, timid kind of way, almost as if she's making suggestions or asking favours rather than barking orders like before. I think the weight of the label "leader" has caused her to shrink back a bit and throw in some kindness as leverage. Deena's not stupid. She knows "Leader" in Survivor in the kiss of death. And the fact that Jeanne gave Deena this kiss of death in the presence of the whole tribe will ultimately result in a Deena-led ousting of Jeanne. It is a kind of indirect kick in the knees, and Deena's got to be pissed.   Top

mockingbird 61 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-03-03, 01:37 AM (EST) 15. "RE: A Mean Team" Jeanne seems to be this years Vee(near the arguments, perhaps causing the arguments)but somehow seems more transparent. In a way, she takes a leadershipe role by calling the meeting and appointing Deena. She has aligned with an emotional person(Joanna) as did Vee(Sean) and can perhaps prey upon that by instigating scenes. But she's a bit more obvious(should not have 'nominated'-let Joanna do that). When Vee called the 2 campfire meetings(as a set up for friction between Paschal/Hunter and Sean) she remained quiet-which allowed her to fool the others. I cannot tell whether or not Jeanne would stab an ally in the back to further her own cause(like Vee did to Cathy)but I hope so, It's the Jeanne's/Vee's who, though not terribly exciting to watch, Cause excitement yet stay clear of 'Drama" and make the show interesting.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-04-03, 09:34 AM (EST) 16. "RE: A Mean Team" I still say MB's biggest mistake was not showing us Vee's strategy. She became the most boring winner because nobody thought she did anything to deserve it. Hopefully MB learned from that mistake and will never hide a winner's strategy from the audience again.   Top

amylynne321 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-05-03, 02:00 AM (EST) 17. "RE: A Mean Team" I think that's exactly right,(about Vee being the most boring winner to date) and that's why we saw Brian's game from beginning to end and after the third show we all knew he was going to win. This is the reason that I think Jeanne is going to be sticking around for a while at least. Aside from her comment about how she and Joanna put up Deena as the leader, I've always noticed Jeanne acting like she's Deena's second in command. When Deena wants a meeting, Jeanne goes and gets the girls together...when Deena gives out chores, Jeanne enforces them- also, I've noticed that after the girls win the challenges, Deena and Jeanne hug each other pretty much before celebrating with anybody else. It's hard to tell who's the playa and who's the playa's bi*ch sometimes, but I think that Jeanne is playing the game, but maybe too much for her own good.   Top

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