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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"OOPS!!! and a Scoop"
HawkEye 418 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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06-26-01, 10:42 AM (EST)
 
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"OOPS!!! and a Scoop" |
DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!I should have known to never trust that skierdude! Hell it probably wasn't even HIM, just someone pretending to be him! Okay, from here on out I promise to only post spoilers from legitimate sources <LOL @ me, almost got that out with a straight face, buuwaaa haa haaaaa>. Ok now for the scoop. I got this from a disgruntled postal worker, so it's gotta be true!!! Anyway she was able to copy a page of one of the future episode and send it to me. It looked to be in an older draft, so probably it isn't exactly how it plays out but it's hard to say. Anyway I'm posting it here and let you see for yourself.
| Hey Clown, here are the revision to page 3 you requested. <In the distance two figures can be seen in night-vision whispering the following> "It's working like a charm and no ones suspecting." "Yes just like the Mole. It was brilliant with the teeth marks, they will never see it coming." "Can we really trust GT, though?" "Of course not, but since dalton got whacked it makes it easier. She's more of a loner than we are now buuwaaa haaa haaa" "Well ok, but it's us to the end right?" "Yes, you and me TTing right to the end." "And, you squared it with vamps?" "She's promised not to kill you again, if that’s what you mean." "Yeah, we better get back to camp before someone catches us." "Hey I really gotta teetee now that I mentioned it." <insert squeeze bottle to sound like actual urination> "Gross dude, quit pissin in the wind!" <cut to chat with Mon Cherrie> "So they think they're real clever, but I know. I'm just stringing them along until I've got firm control of this game. I mean really, I think we're connecting on so many levels. Not all that I would like, but if..." <pauses for dramatic effect camera zooms in for close-up> "If I can just break him of the glue." <jump immediately to chat with GT> "Well that's what happens when you get caught. Screw them all, I'm in this for me now. Sell to the highest bidder that's my motto. After all my team is all a bunch of whiney losers. Did I tell you about..." <GT continues ranting as we cut to commercial> page3
Shakesvivor Internal Document - Need to Know Required
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Nothing can hide from the eye of a HAWK, except a fake skierdude |
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-26-01, 10:51 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: OOPS!!! and a Scoop" |
Excellent find, Hawkman, keep up the good work! Gosh, I hope this doesn't mean we're heading for another Crisis of Dimensional --Vivors! No wait, that's what I meant to say to the HawkDude post, I just forgot! Anyway, Man, where did you find this one again? Was it on the pimps site (hope not)? More More!!!"If the race of man should be left naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few individuals might linger, but in a year would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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Lady_Electra 68 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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06-26-01, 11:40 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: OOPS!!! and a Scoop" |
>>"And, you squared it with vamps?""She's promised not to kill you again, if that’s what you mean."<< Yeah?? I did?? I don't THINK so!! Grrrrrr! I will promise nothing, you hear me? NOTHING!! I will wait... watch how it all plays out... but anyone makes a move on my glue man, well... all bets are off, baby!!  (Hey dabs!!! Wakeywakeywakey!!)
"You know me... Just look in my eyes, shed my skin, got a new disguise, My heart still beats, and I'm the same.. do you know my name??-Day After Day/Def Leppard
Du ar min hjälte, Supermänniska 
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-26-01, 12:45 PM (EST)
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3. "DAWs and spoiling" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-26-01 AT 02:45 PM (EST)1. Boy, the lengths some people will go to in their efforts to avoid hitting 2000 DAWs (after they've already gotten to 1995). Right, Lady_Electra? 2. Let's look back at this spoiler conversation. It's clearly Superman and someone else from his tribe, perhaps discussing a mini-alliance. This person "TTs" with Superman. Since we have seen Superman use TT as an abbreviation for "Top Ten" as in Top Ten List, this has to be a collaborator with Supe on such lists. In other words, it has to be Survivorerist. We see that they expect GT to go along with them. We then discover that Mon Cherie appears to be aware of their plans but thinks she may be able to manipulate them (or at least Supe). We also learn that GT is not inclined to be a "team player" right now. Finally, we learn nothing about the tribe's remaining member, IceCat. Is this a discussion about the TC in E6 -- do the BBs lose IC again and have to go into merge at a numerical disadvantage? Or is this a discussion about post-merge strategy? There just isn't enough info to tell us ... yet. Maybe we'll know more when we see the E6 preview. Edited to add that reading the dialogue again made me think of Colby's alliances with the Ogakor. Is Superman the new Colby? And will there be a glowing green rock at a physical challenge in the foreseeable future?
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-26-01, 02:45 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: DAWs and spoiling" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-26-01 AT 03:08 PM (EST)Way to go, Aya K! I did not get the TT ref until I read your post. Yes, it's 2 guys, Supes and Surv, so Vamps doesn't have to worry (I think) about Surv moving in on her man (but who knows in this show what "collaboration" might lead to?). Mon Cherie doesn't seem to know the exact plot, but she seems aware that 2 or more others think they're clever. She seems to be making the old mistake of thinking her charms can take Supes' eye off the big prize. At this point, the Bores only need 3 votes to control TC if they lose before the merge. So if they lose, Supes and Surv realize they can get GT's vote by threatening to target her if she declines--unless GT can get IC and MC to bust up the S&S mini-alliance. This seems unlikely because MC doesn't want to risk what she perceives as a mini-alliance between herself and Superman, but she might agree to vote Surv off in order to have Supes to herself and then hope Supes won't hold it against her.
Because Surv is writing the episode, that seems unlikely. Not that he's biased or self-serving in his role. Not at all. Clearly GT needs to form a secrt mini-alliance with the under-utilized IC, at the same time agreeing to join with Surv and Supes to dump MC, who is causing dissension in the Bores. My guess, however, is that all this BB spoiler stuff's a red herring because the challenge will be stacked against the AA's and they'll go to TC. If so, the Bores need to decide whether or not they'll stick together after merge or cross tribal lines.
This may be the conversation where 3 of the members are thinking hard about F2 alliances. If so, it may be because they are not going to TC and not worried about being Kucha'd/Pagonged. If they do go into merge equally, Ep 7 will indeed decide the majority tribe and whether they vote along original tribal lines.
It looks like GT could become a crossover and fill in the hole in the AA power structure left by Dalton's boot. Superman has simply gotten too strong a hold on the BB's and has prevented GT from assuming the leadership position she felt was naturally hers. It's hard for a down-to-earth-woman to compete with superheroes and the sluts, groupies, and undead who worship them, and someone who converses mainly with his keyboard and wants to go home worse than Dorothy can't be a big help. As for the AA's, their nationalistic alliances leave them deadlocked (for RR made his choice to appear Canadian and he's stuck with it). SurvivorChick has the most previous votes in case of a tie, but would the Catatonic Cals even realize that?
Will Dangerkitty ever realize that Outfrontgirl and Sleeve are her strongest allies if she looks past the hormonal haze wafting her way from Pepe, Chick, and Snoopy? Or will the sex-obsessed animal figures ally against the 3 non-action-getting humans?  In that case, will Snoopy desert her master and declare every dog for herself? Will Probe count her vote if she sneaks it in while RR naps on his feet at the voting confessional? Sorry to have no real answers, only more questions.
Lets hope for a spoiler from Shakesvivor Blows, as I believe they have been in contact with and perhaps (O heavens) even influencing or threatening or cajoling the current writer.
No Vamps, I don't mean you. We all know you're not SVBlows. Thanks Hawk, this looks much more believable than your last entry. We shall see if you have deliberately misled us! 
Edited to add sad face for nonactiongetting humans
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-26-01, 03:08 PM (EST)
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6. "Final three" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-26-01 AT 03:12 PM (EST)>If so, the Bores need to decide whether or not they'll
>stick together after merge or cross tribal lines.
>This may be the conversation where 3 of the members are
>thinking hard about F2 alliances. If so, it may
>be because they are not going to TC and not
>worried about being Kucha'd/Pagonged. Agreed. See the edit to my post above. This reminded me of the Colby-Jerri conversation that we saw ("You, me and Amber to the final three") and the Colby-Tina conversation that we didn't see ("You, me and Keith to the final three"). >If they do go into merge equally, Ep 7 will indeed
>decide the majority tribe and whether they vote along original
>tribal lines. It looks like GT could become a crossover and
>fill in the hole in the AA power structure left by Dalton's
>boot. I'd be hard-pressed to call what the AAs have a "power structure." Looks more like a pile of dead batteries. >Superman has simply gotten too strong a hold on the BB's
>and has prevented GT from assuming the leadership position
>she felt was naturally hers. It's hard for a down-to-earth
>woman to compete with superheroes and the sluts, groupies,
>and undead who worship them, and someone who converses
>mainly with his keyboard and wants to go home worse than
>Dorothy can't be a big help. ROFLMAO! But don't underestimate the Cat or his possible post-merge role, especially if he can figure out what makes The Village ... er, the set run. >As for the AA's, their nationalistic alliances leave them
>deadlocked (for RR made his choice to appear Canadian and
>he's stuck with it). SurvivorChick has the most previous
>votes in case of a tie, but would the Catatonic Cals even
>realize that? As MB said about the S2 contestants, "These people watched Dicque Hatch in S1. They know how the game is played." Hey, even Mitch figured it out. >Will Dangerkitty ever realize that Outfrontgirl and
>sleeeve are her strongest allies if she looks past
>the hormonal haze wafting her way from Pepe, Chick,
>and Snoopy? Or, more importantly, will she figure it out in time? Or will OFG and sleeeve find other allies post-merge (presuming they make it that far). >Or will the sex-obsessed animal figures ally against the 3
>non-action-getting humans? In that case, will Snoopy desert
>her master and declare every dog for herself? Will Probe
>count her vote if she sneaks it in while RR naps on his feet
>at the voting confessional? Well, there are now more men than women left in the game, since the last three to be booted have all been female. The "sex-obsessed animal figures" may start to get more competitive if the imbalance gets worse! And Probe will probably count any vote as long as the number of votes works out right. Can't wait for the preview.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-26-01, 03:18 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Final three" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-26-01 AT 03:29 PM (EST)How great to get such a well-reasoned response. I was thinking of the Ogakor groupings when I wrote that and you picked it up.
And I agree our dear Cat remains a force to be reckoned with.
But the real reason I had to reply instantly: >I'd be hard-pressed to call what the AAs have a "power structure." Looks more like a pile of dead batteries. My turn to be ROFLMAO! You made my day! Edited to add: just read your edit about the glowing green rock.
This could explain Ice Cat's apparent disinterest in alliances.
We have seen from his post that he has the green rock ready for deployment and has made "neo-Colby" aware of the doomsday weapon. Hah! Ice Cat, like Tina, pulling the balls, I mean strings, from behind the scenes!
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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06-26-01, 03:52 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: OOPS!!! and a Scoop" |
May I remind you all of Hawkeye's pathetic inability to impersonate people? This is obviously another of those attempts--and you fools are stoopid enough to discuss this forgery as though it actually had MERIT!Anyone with a brain would know that Vamps and GT have a whole sisterhood thing going, and it extends to Supe. . . believe me, he is no man o' steel when she's involved. . . he does whatever she tells him--between the sex and glue, what else does he really need?! Believe me, GT had nothing to fear from Supe. You are missing some obvious BB alliances, Hawk. . . painfully obvious. . . As for IceCat, you just might get your heads out of your arses on that one, too. . . Obviously, the untrustworthy BBs right now are MC and Surv--and I happen to know there's a dangerous influence on that boy from the OTHER camp! Just consider--what could turn our little angel so whacko, but a frustrated older woman known for forcing herself on tribemates of BOTH genders? Believe me when I say--I have seen her compromise his morals, I have witnessed his plummeting purity meter, and I believe that is one conflicted kid, on the verge of going "postal" like none of us could imagine. . . I cannot speculate on what I cannot see in the AA camp, but I suspect some serious jockeying for control, now that Dalton has been done dirt. . . Can't imagine a more moronic move than booting their one uniting leader. I fully expect their preoccupation with all things sexual will leave them ripe for a stealth attack by one of the more cerebral members--who actually remembers that this is all about WINNING. . . As for Hawkeye's lame attempt at spoiling (AGAIN. . .), I have only one thing to say: 
hehehehehe GT
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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06-26-01, 04:26 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Texans" |
>AND just what kind of activity were you engaged in that let you see Surv's "purity meter" plummeting?
AyaK, if you didn't waste so much time with work and family, you'd be able to hang out in the bar enough to know this is a fact. . . Last night, this aggressive female lured him out from behind the bar--onto the SOFA--and at least on one occasion, he was heard to proclaim it had fallen into the mid-80s--and HE DID NOT CARE!!! Before she arrived, he was in a panic because it had gotten dangerously low--to the mid-90s. . . Obviously, something is afoot--and I am aghast to realize it is on a par with a newsworthy Northwestern couple (think "schoolteacher" and "pubescent boy," and you're right there with me.) Honestly, the depths to which SB has plummeted lately. . .And since we know that he is not easily swayed from his 8 X 10s of LAAAAAMMMMBER (remember HER, Surv?!), you've got to know this is serious. . . I don't think he's slobbered over those since sch. . . I mean, since this desperate female has targeted him. (AND. . . he seems oblivious to the fact that she's simultaneously hitting on everyone else in the bar, as well!) Believe me, I've done my best to look out for this boy, but I am only one person. Perhaps if his parents weren't hopeless gambling addicts, he wouldn't be left to his own devices for such long periods of time. . . Maybe there's someone in SBLand who'd be willing to adopt him for a small monthly stipend? (I'd do it, but my house isn't big enough.) Once he's done with this week's finals, he's going to need a lot more supervision--and I would start by installing iron bars in his bedroom windows. . . Once she manages to consummate this unholy alliance, he's as good as lost to us! 
GT
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Survivorchick 1161 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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06-27-01, 01:27 PM (EST)
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21. "RE:Bloody Texans" |
GT!!"older woman" ????
"aggressive female"????
"DESPERATE female"???? Ooooh - this is war girl!!
Since Surv has never revealed his real age, we can assume that he is either a) a 16 year old high school kid
(in which case I'm really not that much older) or b) a 70 year old pervert who likes to pretend he's a 16 year old high school kid
(in which case I'm the young innocent victim) I highly resent being called aggressive or desperate as I am not either of those things. If Surv's purity meter is plummeting, it's due to his own choices (and perhaps escalated by recently released skanky photos of his Lamber)and cannot be blamed on my perfectly innocent feelings for him. <wags finger at GT Alicia-style> Survivorchick
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AyatollahKhomeini 2008 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator"
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06-26-01, 06:43 PM (EST)
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12. "United in divisiveness" |
My comment about Bill being a uniting leader was of course ironic, since Bill got impeached. As far as "fly settings," I don't think Hillary looks at men that way (which is the ONLY possible excuse I can think of for Bill's behavior -- and I even voted for the guy).
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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06-26-01, 10:43 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: United in divisiveness" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-26-01 AT 10:48 PM (EST)Have been pondering the role of "leaders" in BV--and have come to the horrendous realization that since this is being dictated by the worst kind of scab writers, the story line is not necessarily going to follow logical progression, as far as who goes. . . Each writer seems obsessed with topping the shock value of the previous bootee, and the least active cast members are being allowed to float along and avoid their logical fate! Who dreamt up this crap, anyway?! Are we destined to wind up with a Final 4 consisting of absentees and SnoopySucks?! (Apparently, the dog is easier to write for than lesser-known characters. . .) That'll sure draw in the ratings necessary for another season, whooo boy! Time for the producers to take the bull by the horns and get this thing on track? or will we fizzle before we're half-done? Is it possible that I could actually be lonesome for that damned Clown?!!! Heaven forbid. . . Any other opinions from my esteemed colleagues in whoredom? GT
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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06-27-01, 03:26 AM (EST)
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17. "Sorry you asked, Slurpee?" |
***WARNING: The following has been deemed unsuitable for children under 17, anyone with ADD, women in the final weeks of pregnancy, or those with a severe aversion or allergy to greasepaint. God help me, the more I re-read this, the more it sounds like a plea for the return of El Monstro! . . . If I've created enough of an outcry against my sentiments, I hereby give AyaK power of attorney to ensure I receive proper treatment in the finest facility available.***Slurp. . . I don't expect YOU to "get it" as you were the last one to kill off one of the most entertaining characters (entertaining despite the fact that no one bothered to incorporate her other fine and well-known qualitites, I might add)--and you KNOW she deserved to make F4 (if not win it all)! I suspect your choice had more to do with going against what you were asked to do than in what was the most likely to really happen. I'm talking about the fact that writers are reluctant to write about people who haven't done much to establish a personality (or help flesh one out as OFG did for skier), or because they don't want to seem to be promoting a popularity contest. Do you think anyone would've cared about the real show if the F4 were Lamber, Bitchell, Kel, and Debb? I think not. . . And popularity contest? what do you people think Survivor IS?! If you're more afraid of offending shrinking violets than writing the story, maybe you should stick to poetry. . . The people who submitted their applications knew what they were getting into! I'm just disturbed to be hearing rumors of some interesting people being on the block next because it's becoming a contest to boot someone unlikely (and NO, I'm not talking about myself, cuz I haven't heard that one yet). And once again, I can't help but point out that The Clown would've treated us all equally badly, and wouldn't have gotten bogged down in this "popularity contest" drivel or the fact that he didn't know enough about what some people were like--the game would've had a lot more drama to it in that respect, because he would've filled in those unknown quantities. There has been only a small amount of creative license in creating characters' personalities, but several have had very little done with them--and I don't think that forgetfulness justifies letting them slide under the radar. I'm not saying I haven't loved each episode thus far, because I've loved them ALL (a LOT)--I'm just trying to point out a potential for disaster if things keep on this same course. Sadly enough, I expect my opponent OFG to be the most likely one to back me up on this, as the two of us have done more active posting than anyone else--which probably makes us prime targets for TC! But what happens when the only characters left are the ones who never post? I guess what I'm asking for is for ALL the characters to be developed--not just the best-known from OT, or people who frequent chat--and for the storyline to have more than a little logic and a thread to tie the episodes together. Without some continuity, this is just another creative writing contest. Again, I'm not saying there hasn't been some continuity--I'm just fretting about stupid rumors and possibilities, and haven't even taken the time to consider the actual writers to come. . . . . . the most disconcerting of which you may be certain is yours truly (I dreaded it a lot less when it wasn't looming this closely or quickly, I promise you!) Biggest problem in being a squeaky wheel is that you're bound to be held up to the closest scrutiny. . . (and I am hugely concerned with the fact that I'm more of a "ranter" than a "comedienne". . . Dang it! who talked me into this, anyway?!) I'm really curious to know if any other contestants feel the same way, or if our producers have an interesting slant on the whole thing. AyaProbe--I KNOW you've done a lot to try to promote this beast, and not just because you're having a hoot doing it! Surely you have something to say to take the oomph out of my tantrum. . . I'm ANAL, okay? I like things to fit neatly together! (Hard to believe I'm too lazy to be a Spoiler, isn't it?  ) 
GT
Hmmm. . . I've never had PMS before. . . I wonder if this is it. (Thanks a LOT, Vamps! of all the things to pass on to me, it had to be THAT?) Maybe I'm just cranky cuz it's 3:30 in the morning. . .
And where the hell did I leave my soapbox? Ohhh. . . there it is--never mind.
*stomps off to bed* (undoubtedly a fitful sleep, cuz Superman has started snoring horrendously loudly, Mon Cherie keeps yelling in her sleep about finding a plunger, and quite frankly, Surv is starting to scare me more than a little bit. . .)
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 01:59 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Sorry you asked, Slurpee?" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-28-01 AT 00:42 AM (EST)>Slurp. . . I don't expect YOU to "get it" as you were the last one to kill off one of the most entertaining characters (entertaining despite the fact that no one bothered to incorporate her other fine and well-known qualitites, I might add)--and you KNOW she deserved to make F4 (if not win it all)! While I don't entirely disagree with you, GT, do I detect a whiff of confusing the fictive game avatars with the actual posters? This is something we should all be wary of, the characters in BlowsVivor are elements in a fiction and should be employed as such. >I'm talking about the fact that writers are reluctant to write about people who haven't done much to establish a personality (or help flesh one out as OFG did for skier), or because they don't want to seem to be promoting a popularity contest. Hear Hear!!! >If you're more afraid of offending shrinking violets than writing the story, maybe you should stick to poetry. . . The people who submitted their applications knew what they were getting into!
>
>I'm just disturbed to be hearing rumors of some interesting people being on the block next because it's becoming a contest to boot someone unlikely (and NO, I'm not talking about myself, cuz I haven't heard that one yet). And once again, I can't help but point out that The Clown would've treated us all equally badly, and wouldn't have gotten bogged down in this "popularity contest" drivel or the fact that he didn't know enough about what some people were like--the game would've had a lot more drama to it in that respect, because he would've filled in those unknown quantities. There has been only a small amount of creative license in creating characters' personalities, but several have had very little done with them--and I don't think that forgetfulness justifies letting them slide under the radar. Okay, I'm going to go on record here as saying, first of all, I have always had every intention of using each of the characters left me when episode 10 comes around, but it seems some things should be settled insofar as what BlowsVivor is and is not. It is a fiction, a parody/homage to "Survivor" (and, in my opinion, unfortunately, something of an homage to summary writing, which I think is getting in the way); it is a community playtime as well, with "spoilers" and "voting threads" and all of that, a means of maintaining interest during the off season. It is not a popularity contest, it is not a real game. It is a round robin creative writing effort. It is free play. Some people have expressed concern because they know I have my episode mapped out, and because I have made a running joke out of losing characters before I have had a chance at them. That is a running joke, I am not trying to influence the other writers to do what I want. My intention all along has been to use whatever characters are left to me; I have already lost some great character-specific gags with each bootie, that will continue to be the case no matter who goes! Finally, about who gets the boot: My original intent, had both Vamps and Supes still been in the game, would have been to give one of them the boot. I mention that because of the reason behind that decision, namely it is my intent to leave the next writer the most interesting collection of characters, and the most interesting "Survivor" situation as possible (within the bounds of ... well, some semblance of reason, let's say). In other words, I reasoned that if both those characters were still there beyond a certain point everything that could be done with them as a couple would have been well used up, the only way to make either interesting would be to get rid of one or the other. GT, I take it from what you've written that (underlying it all, perhaps) what you want is for BlowsVivor to be as interesting as possible. That is a position I fully support and intend to follow, and I encourage everyone to take that position as well. But .. everyone is different, everyone has a unique perspective on "Survivor" and BlowsVivor and on the community as a whole. It will not do us any good to go around drubbing others simply because they have a different perspective; that, as I see it, is the biggest danger here, the potential for divisiveness. >I'm really curious to know if any other contestants feel the same way, or if our producers have an interesting slant on the whole thing. Hope this helps, if you have any questions or concerns please continue to bring them up.
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AyatollahKhomeini 2008 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator"
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06-27-01, 02:40 PM (EST)
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24. "More thoughts" |
>While I don't entirely disagree with you, GT, do I detect
>a whiff of confusing the fictive game avatars with the
>actual posters? This is something we should all be
>wary of, the characters in BlowsVivor are elements in a
>fiction and should be employed as such.I think this is part of the real issue here, dabo. Also, this game just took a twist from the way that some of the contestants had wanted to see it play out. They had a very interesting scenario set up for the end. But, just like in real "Survivor", the game took a twist in a different direction. >I'm talking about the fact that writers are reluctant to write
>about people who haven't done much to establish a personality
>(or help flesh one out as OFG did for skier), or because they
>don't want to seem to be promoting a popularity contest. With the exception of RudyRules, I think a personality has been established for ALL of the contestants left in the game. >If you're more afraid of offending shrinking violets than
>writing the story, maybe you should stick to poetry. . . The
>people who submitted their applications knew what they were
>getting into! Then why are they objecting to the fact that they (or their friends) aren't going to make the merge? >I'm just disturbed to be hearing rumors of some interesting
>people being on the block next because it's becoming a contest
>to boot someone unlikely (and NO, I'm not talking about myself,
>cuz I haven't heard that one yet). And once again, I can't help
>but point out that The Clown would've treated us all equally
>badly, and wouldn't have gotten bogged down in this
>"popularity contest" drivel or the fact that he didn't know
>enough about what some people were like--the game would've had
>a lot more drama to it in that respect, because he would've
>filled in those unknown quantities. This comment really bothers me, GT. First, it bothers me because it seems that you think "your" ending would have happened had shakes kept writing Shakesvivor. Perhaps so, perhaps not. Secondly, I haven't seen any "popularity contest" drivel. I think the unknown quantities are being filled in, although perhaps not to the same extent that they were filled in by OFG ... but that's to be expected --- everyone takes a different approach. I don't think anyone is being treated better or worse so far in BlowsVivor, with the possible exception of Superman, who has been far too prominent and had far too easy of a time of it so far, IMHO. However, maybe his new alliance discussions will create some drama around his character. >Okay, I'm going to go on record here as saying, first
>of all, I have always had every intention of using
>each of the characters left me when episode 10 comes
>around, but it seems some things should be settled insofar
>as what BlowsVivor is and is not. It is a fiction, a
>parody/homage to "Survivor" (and, in my opinion,
>unfortunately, something of an homage to summary writing,
>which I think is getting in the way); it is a community
>playtime as well, with "spoilers" and "voting threads" and all
>of that, a means of maintaining interest during the off
>season. It is not a popularity contest, it is not a real
>game. It is a round robin creative writing effort. It
>is free play. Sounds right to me. I do think it's important that each character gets some face time in each episode, because that gives future writers more to play with. It's not really an "homage" to summary writing, but it have to play in that genre. >Finally, about who gets the boot: My original intent, had both
>Vamps and Supes still been in the game, would have
>been to give one of them the boot. I mention that because of
>the reason behind that decision, namely it is my intent to
>leave the next writer the most interesting collection of
>characters, and the most interesting "Survivor"
>situation as possible (within the bounds of ... well, some
>semblance of reason, let's say). In other words, I
>reasoned that if both those characters were still there beyond
>a certain point everything that could be done with them
>as a couple would have been well used up, the
>only way to make either interesting would be to get
>rid of one or the other. Actually, had I kept the responsibility for E7 and had they both been left, my original plan was to split them up as a couple and pair them with other contestants.... >But .. everyone is different, everyone has a unique
>perspective on "Survivor" and BlowsVivor and
>on the community as a whole. It will not do us any good to
>go around drubbing others simply because they have a different
>perspective; that, as I see it, is the biggest danger
>here, the potential for divisiveness. I agree with this. I anticipate an ending that's just as interesting as the Florida election story, with (potentially all of?) the booted contestants sitting on the jury. I have no idea who is going to be in the final two or what will transpire between now and then. It's just like real "Survivor"!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 04:40 AM (EST)
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18. "Cast members" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 05:15 AM (EST)Edited to say: This post was written in response to Sherpa's comment to GT that I start out with and without seeing GT's long post #17. Apparently we were both writing independent long posts in the middle of the night. LOL. So what I say below goes side by side with hers and doesn't follow from it. Too late now to try to respond; it seems we both had a piece to speak! To quote GT and Dave--
>the least active cast members are being allowed to float along and avoid their logical fate! >And this is different from the show we're spoofing how, exactly? To bring this interesting question down to end of thread--
I'm responding to this seriously, as writer and Survivor student, not as "cast member": Since you mentioned the show we're spoofing Dave, this is my take on how the boot logic worked through the first half and how that fits with what our group project looks like at this point: In Survivor:
The first 6 members off S2 were Debb, Kel, Marilyn, Mitch, Kimmi, Michael (doesn't count) Off S1: Sonja, BB, Stacey, Ramona, Dirk, Joel (strength dispensable due to last TC before merge) Both start off with eliminating the loners, the old/weak, the bossy/inflexible that lack charisma, the non-workers, the non-alliance players. Challenge liabilities are at highest risk.
They kept the alliance-formers and the physically strong and providers of food/shelter that don't alienate others too much. After the dispensable losses, moved towards the strong personality conflicts (Kimmi/Alicia, Joel/Gretchen & Jenna, Jerri/Keith). Michael would have stayed until merge.
The strong become targets once the group challenges end. In BlowsVivor:
Shakes knew what he was doing when he set up the initial characters. Some were clearly flat (early boots) (some strong and leaders--the alpha figures) and some hinted at being OTR but coming into play later (hint: crafty, ticking time bomb)... Shakes booted Rhino as a BB/Debb figure who had survival skills but no social/diplomatic skills and that was completely appropriate for the Survivor pattern.. I wish I knew what he had planned but I'm sure it had a logical development. BA booted Skier, I presume, because he didn't work or otherwise contribute and wasn't a "real" character. "Weak" bootee. I booted ItzLisa under the theory that, like Maralyn (and Kimmi, but Kimmi was different because obnoxious), she was thinking about friendships and not alliances. Also I wanted to play with the idea that one person keeping their strategy (Surv) under wraps could combine with the throwaway vote (think Sean) and end up defeating the two competing intended boots (Ice and MC).
I was going for a Sean/Pagong type of noncommunication. I admit that under the Survivor pattern, Mon Cherie had been set up to go next in the BB's and I pulled a slight surprise. But Lisa had not been set up by Shakes as a central character. She was the "great personality doesn't replace strategizing" boot. I did not feel I was at liberty to boot GT, Supes, or Vamps, because of the way Shakes set them up at the beginning as central. Survivorerist also had major character potential as the younger player who gets through (although he sure changed, didn't he!). If it had been AA's turn, I would have felt bound to keep Dalton, Sleeeve, and Dangerkitty (I'll just omit listing OFG to avoid further bias) solely from the important roles Shakes gave them at the beginning. There was no popularity contest, just the way they were set up as more developed. Also, the more thinking members tend to outlast the brawn to the end. (Colby was strong but he was also very sharp). When Supes booted Vamps, he pulled off a great plot twist.
The actual Survivor logic to her boot was weak, however; it seemed he wanted to retire her from the story. Vamps was a strong character and competitor for her team; her absence has left the BB's in disarray. I think in Survivor she would have stayed and Mon Cherie lost the rivalry, as the outside woman. Dave, you booted Dalton, and you could make a case her character fell into the overly bossy type like BB. But she was a politician player, not a military type. She was strong in the challenges, holding the tribe together with motivation, and politically juggling 2 alliances (like Colby). Again, in Survivor, I'm pretty sure Dalton would have arranged for someone else to get axed. Now the AA's are as charged up as a pile of dead batteries, as Aya noted above. Back to Survivor:
As for the floating along characters in Survivor who lasted, Nick and Amber come to mind--Nick was young and strong and he made it to the merge. Amber too, athletic, had an alliance, made it to merge. Mitch and Ramona, neither strong nor charismatic, early casualties. Rodger wasn't physically strong but his leadership as a moral/morale center made him important and the Kucha majority meant he didn't have to compete. Then, at merge, the strong started to fall in reverse order of being IC threats and in minority alliances--Jeff/Alicia/Nick/Amber, with a slight diversion to kick someone too obnoxious to tolerate further. Joel/Gretchen, then Gervase/Jenna. So that's my little summary. Survivor has a logic, and always some surprises, but usually small surprises. The people are playing to win and they don't pick their boots to surprise the audience. The boots are logical, but MB gets to use editing to somewhat obscure the logic up to the moment of truth. Well, it's late and there may not be a lot of sense here.
I suppose the main point I wanted to make is that Survivor players don't keep "floaters" around. Everyone who was brought along was kept for a purpose up to a point, and then axed when their immunity ran out. Some Survivor characters left the game early and so were never very developed, although given face time. We are working from the opposite, starting with characters set up by Shakes in a range from early/undeveloped to strong/finishers, with the second category of strong finishers including those present from beginning but somewhat UTR until later in the game, like Kelly, Colleen, Lis, Amber (who just never properly materialized).
In other words, we are not working from facts of real bootees, but creating the "facts" from interpreting the existing story arc. At least I think there should be a logical and start-to-finish story arc. I am not criticizing anyone's choices in particular, but I think GT has a strong point when she notes that booting the strong characters because they make a big splash when they fall is more a writer-favoring strategy than a realistic parody of the game. Also it does the last writers a disservice because they are left with characters at the end without a continuously strong story arc, who have to be fleshed out later out of necessity. I would certainly welcome response if anyone can wade through this. Sorry about the length!
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 11:25 AM (EST)
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19. "Coordination" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 07:04 PM (EST)GT and OFG, I admire your strong sentiments. However, I am forced to (at least in part) disagree. First, let me deal with the Dalton issue. One of the later writers had planned to boot Dalton ... which I said was OK, but I didn't think she'd make the merge! How could I predict that, with absolutely no input into the boot selection process? Because she had been set up as the bossiest character, the Stacey Stillman of BV. Bossy characters get the boot early. This isn't to say that Dalton is really bossy, or that she wouldn't end up as Tina if she were really on "Survivor" -- just that she was written to be Stacey and ended up like Stacey. I fully anticipate seeing her and her lawyer showing up during a later episode to collect affidavits against AyaProbe for her boot. The only "illogical" boot so far was VampKira, and I'm not complaining about the drama of that scene. I disagree with the proposition that only the uninteresting characters get booted pre-merge. Mark Burnett said (and I think he was being honest) that he thought Ramona and Joel would be the dominant personalities in Pagong. Instead, the repellent Greg Buis became the dominant character. No wonder MB was rooting for the Tagi Alliance! I also disagree with the idea that the writers haven't developed the "minor" characters -- by which I presume you meant the people not as well known on the boards. I do think there has been less character interplay than I would have written, but I think there will be more interplay as the roles of the characers become better defined. Don't forget how long Amber and Nick lasted, despite not having one fully-developed personality between them! And, BTW, I think that both GT and OFG have been presented as characters that are likely to go a long way in the game (but then again, so were Jeff V. and Michael). Edited to add: Be careful about reading too much into the first episode, OFG. Remember that 15 of the 16 contestants had interview comments edited into the first episode of S2. The missing person? Tina, UTR right from the start.
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AyatollahKhomeini 2008 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator"
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06-27-01, 01:03 PM (EST)
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20. "Alliances" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 01:18 PM (EST)One additional note as we head for the merge --- in S1, the Tagi Alliance was in place by this time, while the Pagong were still splintered thanks to Greg. In S2, Ogakor had its boot order set by E6 (first Jerri, then Amber and Keith, leaving Colby and Tina); Kucha was still largely a cypher, with two alliances (Rodger-Lis-Michael and Jeff-Alicia-Nick) in place and competing. Survivorerist's preview indicates that the tribes have begun to think about this important issue. Will they hang together post-merge or will they splinter? Who goes first, if someone has to go? Will RudyRules ever get as many lines as SnoopySucks gets? Tune in for the next episode of BlowsVivor! Edited to add that here is sleeeve's pre-show take on the AA tribe dynamics, which is worth reading by future writers:
http://community.survivorblows.com/boards/DCForumID18/86.shtml#6
Looks to me like OFG and sleeeve might have used being in Dalton's shadow to find common ground for taking over their tribe's activities (I notice that they both voted for Dalton) -- which means they must have at least one more (secret?) ally.
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SherpaDave 8324 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 01:39 PM (EST)
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22. "My turn to weigh in" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 01:40 PM (EST)OFG and GT, I think you bring up good points. I also think AyaK already rebutted with some of the same points I'd have made regarding my specific boot choice. I do want to respond specifically as to why Dalton was the boot in ep5. 1) I joined these boards as a spoiler and I'm a spoiler by nature. One of the single most cited spoilers was face time. Dalton had pretty much lapped the field in face time through ep4.
2) As AyaK said, Dalton's character had not, through ep4, been set up as a unifier. Her character, as scripted, was abrasive. AyaK cited Stacy as the comparable character. The character I was most reminded of was BB.
3) Shock value did NOT play into my choice. It certainly played into how the script would be written once the choice was made, but not into how the choice was made.
4) Wanting to go against what I was asked to do (which, incidentally, felt a lot more like being TOLD what to do) also had nothing to do with my choice. I'd made the boot choice well before the conversation we had in the bar. I had already, in fact, emailed Svist with who the boot was to be. To have not booted Dalton after our conversation in the bar would have required a complete re-thinking of the plot lines I'd already formulated (with only a couple days left before my deadline), and would also have affected another writer, since he was already operating under the impression that Dalton would be the boot. Did I use the conversation in the bar in the script? You bet. Did it affect who my boot would be? Not a bit. Finally, I think there are plenty of interesting characters left. I don't want to get into a war with you, GT, but if I was one of the remaining contestants, I'd be more than a little offended by some of your remarks. Rumors that interesting people are on the block next are absolutely true, because each of the contestants is interesting. 
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 02:44 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: My turn to weigh in" |
I just want to say, first, no one has told me what to do, and I have no desire to ask what I should do.So far each of the booties has made perfect sense to me, even Vamps. Remember the Hatch, he protected Rudy because he felt Rudy was someone he could use, he targeted Gretchen because he felt she was a threat. Vamps was obviously a threat to some of the others in her tribe, Superman doesn't appear to be much of a threat but should be useful in challenges, and not everyone plays the game according to the same standards of logic anyway (they couldn't possibly, each player has to be aware of his or her position in the political scheme of things and then try to maintain or reposition accordingly, that was Jerri's downfall in that she thought she was in control when she wasn't). But BlowsVivor, to me, isn't just about mimicking "Survivor" and I hope other writers will get beyond that sort of thinking. This is creative writing as well and, as I posted earlier in this thread to GT, it has to be about being interesting writing on top of everything else. There, I said it, and I'm glad, you hear, <evil laugh> !!! "If the race of man should be left naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few individuals might linger, but in a year would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 04:01 PM (EST)
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26. "Clarification (I hope)" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 04:49 PM (EST)I would like to ask everyone's patience with me as I try to clarify my earlier post and rethink after reading the feedback. First, GT and I aren't necessarily talking about the same issues. As I said, our posts were totally independent of each other even though they end up appearing as a sort of campaign/critique, but even though we are being somewhat lumped together all the points I hear from AK, Dave, and dabo are well taken. (Aside to Dave: I'm not sure which bar conversation you mean. Was I part of it?) I agree with you (Dave and AyaK) and I think I noted that Dalton's character was set up for a fall because of the bossiness/abrasiveness that did not do justice at all to the real Dalton. She could have been much more but I think we all enjoyed getting to write the bossy lines because they were fun. Dave, I told you before that I loved your episode. If in my tiredness last night I appeared to accuse you of sensationalism, I did not feel or intend that. Your plot was a perfect example of how the overly strong can and do get taken down in the game of Survivor. The case for Vamps' boot makes good sense as well and I was aware of the factors you cited so I'm not surprised at the rebuttal. I do think that her ousting was a more sensational plot twist than if it had been Mon Cherie, but yes, Vamps' character was causing dissension in the tribe with her peculiar habits and her possessiveness of Superman. (More on plot twists below). I think (but may well be wrong) that GT is more upset about Dalton being out than I am because she (GT) was involved with plotting the thing from the beginning (with Shakes), and Dalton's character was meant to evolve, so expectations and investments have been thwarted. (I personally didn't have any input with or from Shakes.) I cannot speak for her, obviously, that's just my take from what I've heard. I do sympathize with the fact that she (unlike Shakes) never dropped the ball on the project and yet she has to say goodbye to her vision of it. Back to the feedback--it appears I came off as critiquing the way the story has gone, but rather I was responding to a discussion between Dave and GT about the way it might end up. AK, on your comment:
>>the "minor" characters -- by which I presume you meant the people not as well known on the boards. Let me clarify that I didn't mean that. I am not talking about board personalities. I have tried hard to separate this from a popularity angle; look at how popular and well-known and wonderful Lisa is, yet I coldly axed her in service of my writer's agenda (although now I'm sorry, Lisa, as you immediately showed in your posts what potential your character had that's now lost due to my choice). As for being less well known on the boards, I of course fall into that category (at least prior to Shakes' project). Shakes "interview" of me mentions my newness and asks how I think that will affect me, and he has me saying, of course it's a factor so I have to work harder. I only became more well known after I got interested in the game and started posting on OT. So I certainly have no bias towards casting the most well known people as the stars. I was in part referring to the way Shakes set up some characters to be more one-dimensional than others, and intimated that some would play major roles. Of course Shakes' ideas are all subject to change now and have been changed, but he did pick the personalities and set up the tribal dynamics. Some characters have been tweaked, but others still don't have a lot more than the little Shakes gave them. It's not easy to flesh out a character when you are also trying to keep continuity in a story with different writers. I know I didn't succeed as I would have liked in enriching everyone. On the other hand, I confess that that a board member's participation in shaping his or her character, through Blowsvivor-related posts, does affect my perception of whether characters are rounded or flat, because every post helps flesh out the character alongside of the episode writing. As an example, look at how Lisa has grown as a character despite being on "Monkey Island," purely because she has been posting and filling in "facts" about what's going on outside the episodes. I've felt from the beginning that the more input people gave the better for their characters to have a life outside the whim of the authors. In fact maybe if I had spent more time doing that instead of taking the spoiling/analyzing role, my character would be more complex at this point (at least, I don't find her very interesting to date although you did good Dave). Of course there's no obligation to get involved or have interest in the game, but I think that participation is a way of "playing" rather than "floating." An example of someone who has been playing hard, who was also new to the boards, is SurvivorChick. I think it's largely due to her expression of interest that her character has assumed importance. She has asked to be more than a demographic in a coma and has led the way in putting out ideas how she could be more than her meagre beginnings. Ditto, for Pepe, he has embraced his casting. I believe that GT is making the point that, ironically, if the writers (no one in particular in mind here, so please no one get defensive) go looking for a juicy character to make the center of the episode, the people who have been putting out energy to enrich the story may find themselves "rewarded" with being targets for early ejection, whereas people who do not much care will fly under-the-radar and win the game. I find that a bit frustrating, but I don't have any conviction my feelings are "right,"--they are just emotions. Maybe I was working too hard to justify them. I have no desire to slight anyone or their character. Survivor is indeed a mean game and it's hard to steer clear of the pitfalls even in imitating it. Lastly, as to future writers getting directions:
I totally understand that no writer wants to be told what to do. Everyone has a different vision of how this fits with Survivor and I am sorry if I came off otherwise. I am concerned that writers feel pressured that their episode will not be as memorable as what went before, which will inevitably get worse the farther down the chain you inherit the thing. One way this can play out is that writers get caught up in inventing more and more surprising plot twists and dramatic boots, and I was hoping that the story arc would more resemble the plot of a long piece written by one person. Why? So that future visitors to the site will see a coherent series rather than a sequential exhibition of dazzling talents. An episode can be very entertaining and creative without having a blockbuster plot. If one person were writing it all, there would be big plot twists at key intervals, as in any long story,
and there would be intervals that were lower key.
However, my part in this is done and I have no right to advise anyone which direction to go. On the other hand, anyone who's had a part is likely to have an interest in the whole. I'm actually sorry I jumped into this in the first place, so I hope this cleared up my post a little. I was going to say cleared up my position, but I'm not here to take a position, only to be part of a dialogue about how it's all evolving. I'm also sorry if I offended anyone then or now, as I like and respect everyone who's been part of this thread.
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SherpaDave 8324 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 05:22 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Clarification (I hope)" |
Hey OFG,In retrospect, I realize that in stating my post was meant to address concerns raised by both you and GT, I was largely inaccurate. I didn't find anything accusatory in what you had said, but did think some points (specifically regarding "important characters") needed to be addressed. Those points were fairly tangential to the real reason that I posted, though, I now think. My real objection was in that I perceived some anger from GT that I felt was misdirected. What most I wanted to address was the idea that I booted Dalton to be contrary, that I wanted to stand up to the man, so to speak. Briefly, the bar conversation I was referring to involved only GT, Dalton, and me. I should also clarify that it wasn't a hostile conversation by any means. Rather, I felt it placed undue expectations on a writer at a very late date. I didn't raise those objections then because I didn't want to give away who was being booted before the episode "aired." I did, however, try to insert some pieces into the episode that made the Dalton character more likable (as MB often does before a boot). (And again, this is the Dalton character I'm talking about; the real Dalton is plenty likable without any help from me.) Anyway, in continuing this thread, I'm starting to worry that GT and I are going to start publicly butting heads in an unhealthy way. I don't think either of us was or is at fault, or even that there's anything necessarily wrong to necessitate placing blame. I'll try to chat with GT in the bar some time soon to attempt to smooth out any misunderstandings that may have arisen.
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 07:06 PM (EST)
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30. "Boredom" |
...rhymes with whoredom, which is what this thread was once discussing. It's easy to get the two confused (isn't it?).
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 05:32 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Clarification (I hope)" |
>I am concerned that writers feel
>pressured that their episode will
>not be as memorable as
>what went before, which will
>inevitably get worse the farther
>down the chain you inherit
>the thing. One way
>this can play out is
>that writers get caught up
>in inventing more and more
>surprising plot twists and dramatic
>boots, and I was hoping
>that the story arc would
>more resemble the plot of
>a long piece written by
>one person. Why? So
>that future visitors to the
>site will see a coherent
>series rather than a sequential
>exhibition of dazzling talents.
>
One point I should have probably made in an earlier post, so I thank you OFG for giving me this further opportunity, is that I do not view BlowsVivor as a writing competition. If it helps some of the writers to think in those terms then so be it, but a round robin isn't a competition, it is a collaborative effort where the whole does need to stand up as one unified piece as much as possible. My intention as a writer (and a lot of the ideas I have already come up with could only be approached from a creative writing standpoint as there is too much yet to be done for me to think in "Survivor" terms about what I will write) is simply to do my part, come up with something that contributes and leaves those who follow me with the best opportunity to do the same.>I'm actually sorry I jumped into
>this in the first place,
>so I hope this cleared
>up my post a little. Don't be, I'm glad you did, and GT and everyone else, too. "If the race of man should be left naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few individuals might linger, but in a year would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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06-27-01, 07:11 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Clarification (I hope)" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 09:00 PM (EST)I had hoped to see more input from actual contestants, but I suppose the lack illustrates my point about the difficulty people are having fleshing out the "minor" characters. Certainly no lack of good discussion, though, so I'm pleased with the debate so far. At this point, I almost feel like saying, "Yeah--what OFG said!" and leave it at that--I'm shocked at how well she captured what I wanted to say. . . but then, she's a more orderly-minded Spoiler-type, and I am more the opposite--an emotionally-reactive (yet anal!) hall-monitor-type. . . (except for the much-despised "cop" qualities that implies). I figured I would be seen as feeling sour grapes about the Dalton ouster, but that was really only one of my triggers. Although we had hoped to have a certain outcome under shakes' régime, we certainly weren't foolish enough to trust HIM at his word! As some of you know, Dalton has had some major personal and technical problems interfere with her participation, and simultaneous to the publication of Slurp's episode, she gave me permission to tell the writers that they were free to write her out at any time (yes, Dave, you dodged a BIG bullet! Shame, too--you might have kept those testicles. . . ) Certainly, the possibility that any of us will go with each episode increases WITH each episode, and the surprise is just part of it--and the uncertainty seems to increase exponentially with each additional vision of where the story should go. What I perceive is that a handful of the same characters figure prominently in each and every episode--and in largely the same ways--RudyRules might as well have been SnoopySucks' luxury item, because SHE gets more interest than he does, Supe and Vamps were locked into their roles because they were inextricable from their on-board personna, MonCherie, Dangerkitty, and Survivorchick have been cast as hormonal one-note characters, and poor sleeeve had to go on vacation and hasn't been able to help himself overcome shakes' depiction as their less-"ept" male counterpart. I have been pleasantly surprised at what's been done with Surv's character, as he seemed so obviously, overly nice on the boards that I figured he'd be an easy boot early on. Schick has likewise done a lot to compensate for her newness on the OT, and I think that's started having an effect on her story character, as well. Pépé has also done quite a bit in a shorter time, and I've been hoping someone would see fit to involve him outside the obvious cat-chasing and malodorous aspects. IceCat? Despite wanting out so badly at the start, I'm expecting someone will pick up on his brainier qualities (not just the code geek, mind you)--he could go far, perhaps because he IS such a reluctant part of all this. . . Yes, a BIT has been done with each character--but you may notice if you go back that there are entire episodes that make little or no mention of some people! OFG has illustrated sooooo much better than I could the importance of the characters and the context of the actual show. Part of what I found intriguing about the show was that people I despised at the start actually became more likable as we were allowed more in-depth glimpses of their personalities. Perhaps part of the problem is that some writers want to do everything to parallel the show, whilst others want to make everything as contrary as possible--while either approach can be used to comedic effect, it doesn't necessarily mesh that well when you try to take both roads simultaneously. I think the thing that most disturbed me was when I started hearing from writers at the end of the list begging me to spare so-and-so because their episode--5, 6, 7 down the line--was already practically finished, and they didn't want to have to start over! After worrying that we wouldn't get enough time for spoilers and building interest between episodes, we have three episodes almost completed simultaneously--two writers only waiting to tweak the fine points depending on problems created with the particulars of ones beforehand. . . THAT is why I suddenly started feeling like continuity and sense were taking a back seat to the writers' agendas, and yearning for shakes' more concrete vision of what should logically happen with the story as an ENTITY, not just disjointed parts. . . (YES! I'm pathetic!!) Likewise, I have been informed that some writers are not willing to offend certain posters because they are fairly new, because they frequent chat together, because they are perceived as being more emotionally fragile. . . THEY are the ones confusing the characters with the actual people, not me! To top this off, I think I'm seeing a definite schism within this debate--perhaps gender-based?--and the probability that no matter how concise we "wimminz" are (some moreso than others), the rest of you will be bound and determined to pick apart the wrong things we say or do not say. . . My original intent was NOT to offend anyone--character or writer--as I believe I enjoy everyone involved as a board member and real-life personality. I also cannot say that I have not thoroughly enjoyed the episodes so far, because I can't think of an instance I was truly upset by what happened in them. I'm just trying to get a sense for the direction it could take. I still think it was correct to bring the debate out of the bar and the email and into a more organized forum, so that everyone else can eventually weigh in. . . Because the originator did not see fit to leave the game in the hands of any one person or group, BV was thrown together in somewhat of a frenzy, and I don't believe there's been a lot of thought given to general ground rules or expectations, just to who got which part of the carcass. Yes, the difference in writing styles gives us an added seat-of-the-pants thrill, but I think it also brings with it a sense of teetering on the razor's edge. We are a fickle bunch, and I'm afraid it wouldn't take much to derail the whole thing at any given time right up to the bitter end. Thank you for your patience. This has been a demonstration of what I like to think of as The Over-Thinker's Curse--pondering ALL the possible outcomes until you're hopelessly mired in the moment. If I ever decide what I want to be when I grow up, I will be certain to become the Todd Rundgren of my field--mastering each and every facet of that job so that no one else has a chance to inject an idea and goof me up.
GT, the Control Freak
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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 09:09 PM (EST)
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32. "My take" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-27-01 AT 09:13 PM (EST)>. . but then, she's a more orderly-minded Spoiler-type, and
>I am more the opposite--an emotionally-reactive (yet anal!)
>hall-monitor-type. . . (except for the much-despised
>"cop" qualities that infers). Personality traits are important here, GT, and (for better or worse) the way BlowsVivor is being put together reflects my personality traits. In one of the "personality profiles," I tested extremely high for interpersonal orientation, task orientation, and justice/critical orientation but at absolute bottom for structure orientation. This is just the way that BV was put together. Interpersonal: everyone working together, each has a voice, no direction -- the writers love it. Task: a fixed (and originally overly ambitious) schedule, some controls -- BV will get done. Justice/critical: not really an issue here, although my comments could be seen as making sure that everyone gets the same opportunities to play with the direction of the game. Structure: NONE, just hit-or-miss. >Certainly, the possibility that any of us will go with each
>episode increases WITH each episode, and the surprise is just
>part of it--and the uncertainty seems to increase exponentially
>with each additional vision of where the story should go. Yes, I agree. Is this a bad thing? In S1, we were all uncertain about who was going next. If it hadn't been for the "Final Nine" picture, we would have missed all the early boots ... anyone remember "Black Gretchen"? >What I perceive is that a handful of the same characters
>figure prominently in each and every episode--and in largely
>the same ways--RudyRules might as well have been SnoopySucks'
>luxury item, because SHE gets more interest than he does Exactly right, and this is a problem. But how many lines did Nick and Amber get? >Supe and Vamps were locked into their roles because they were
>inextricable from their on-board personna Agreed, and definitely a mistake. But Vamps is gone, so a separate Supe character can be developed. >MonCherie, Dangerkitty, and Survivorchick have been
>cast as hormonal one-note characters Male fantasy realization? Male stereotyping? I don't know. I've tried to point out dangerkitty's sig quote and develop her more as an Alicia type, but no one has picked up on it yet. >and poor sleeeve had to go on vacation and hasn't
>been able to help himself overcome shakes' depiction as their
>less-"ept" male counterpart. That's why I referenced sleeeve's post above -- note that he points out his survival training. Those of us from spoilers know that IceCat also has a military background and picked up on the psychological manipulations being pulled by MB in the casting process. IceCat actually makes a good Number 6 from The Prisoner, because he's very likely to be the player most able to fight back against the producer's tricks. But (since OFG) there has been a scarcity of intra-tribal dialogue. >I have been pleasantly surprised at what's been done with
>Surv's character, as he seemed so obviously, overly nice on
>the boards that I figured he'd be an easy boot early on. Thank Supe for filling his character out and Sherpa for the hint of The Shining. >Schick has likewise done a lot to compensate for her
>newness on the OT, and I think that's started having
>an effect on her story character, as well. Agreed. >Pépé has also done quite a bit in a shorter time, and
>I've been hoping someone would see fit to involve him
>outside the obvious cat-chasing and malodorous aspects. We need some challenges that involve more skills! >IceCat? Despite wanting out so badly at the
>start, I'm expecting someone will pick up on his brainier
>qualities (not just the code geek, mind you)--he could go
>far, perhaps because he IS such a reluctant part of
>all this. . . I think one of five people will be the probable winner (but I won't tell you the five, because I don't want to influence the game). All of those five are still around. >Yes, a BIT has been done with each character--but you may
>notice if you go back that there are entire episodes
>that make little or no mention of some people! I don't disagree. I'll make up for some of that in Episode 8.5 ... but that won't help you, GT, because you have to go first. Should I do an Episode 7.5 instead? >Perhaps part of the problem is that some writers
>want to do everything to parallel the show, whilst
>others want to make everything as contrary
>as possible--while either approach can be used to comedic
>effect, it doesn't necessarily mesh that well when you try
>to take both roads simultaneously. I'm definitely in the paralleling group. But I have been intrigued by the effect so far of the contrasts. The episodes aren't what either shakes or I would have written, but that's part of the fascination of this whole process. >I think the thing that most disturbed me was when I
>started hearing from writers at the end of the list
>begging me to spare so-and-so because their episode--5, 6, 7
>down the line--was already practically
>finished, and they didn't want to have to start over!
>After worrying that we wouldn't get enough time for spoilers
>and building interest between episodes, we have three episodes
>almost completed simultaneously--two writers only waiting
>to tweak the fine points depending on problems created with
>the particulars of ones beforehand. . . THAT is
>why I suddenly started feeling like continuity and sense were
>taking a back seat to the writers' agendas, and yearning
>for shakes' more concrete vision of what should logically
>happen with the story as an ENTITY, not just disjointed parts. MB's editing has been this disjointed from time to time as well (remember the myth of the "Good Guys Alliance"?). But I agree with your main point -- I don't know how anyone could have written a post-merge episode until they saw the post-merge landscape that ICB will leave for them. Now I understand the reasoning behind your original post.
>Likewise, I have been informed that some writers are not
>willing to offend certain posters because they are fairly new,
>because they frequent chat together, because they are perceived
>as being more emotionally fragile. . . THEY are the ones
>confusing the characters with the actual people, not me! GT, I won't let you off the hook this easy for your comments about the Dalton boot. Nevertheless, I haven't heard about any of this, and I hope it really isn't happening. "Emotionally fragile?" I thought we got away from that after the whole mess with Dawg. >To top this off, I think I'm seeing a definite schism
>within this debate--perhaps gender-based?--and the
>probability that no matter how concise we "wimminz" are (some
>moreso than others), the rest of you will be bound
>and determined to pick apart the wrong things we say
>or do not say. . I did notice that the debate was breaking down as women versus men, but I think that everyone is approaching it from a different perspective, not gender-based. As I hope you know, GT, I basically agree with you -- the shows so far (except for OFG's) have not had the amount of dialogue and character development that I would have included. But that's my preference; in setting up BV, the idea was to let everyone feel free to satisfy their own vision of a good episode (and, as dabo points out, a good summary). >I still think it was correct to bring the debate out of the
>bar and the email and into a more organized forum,
>so that everyone else can eventually weigh in. . . So do I. I'm sorry if I implied otherwise above. >Because the originator did not see fit to leave the
>game in the hands of any one person or group,
>BV was thrown together in somewhat of a frenzy, and
>I don't believe there's been a lot of thought given to
>general ground rules or expectations, just to who got
>which part of the carcass. Yes, the difference in writing
>styles gives us an added seat-of-the-pants thrill, but I
>think it also brings with it a sense of teetering on the
>razor's edge. Isn't that part of the thrill of good drama? One of my favorite Tom Hanks characters is Steven Gold in Punchline, the only time Hanks has actually taken a character right to the edge of unlikeability. The reason for seeing that movie isn't Sally Field's awful effort as a comedienne, but to see whether Hanks' character can hold it together -- this was the performance that convinced me that Hanks would become a major star. Then again, perhaps it's just me and my lack of any orientation toward structure. Hanks got his first Oscar nomination that year, but it was for Big, not for Punchline. >If I ever decide what I want to be when I grow up, I
>will be certain to become the Todd Rundgren of my
>field--mastering each and every facet of that job so that
>no one else has a chance to inject an idea and goof me up. I should have known you'd say this, GT, because I always wanted to be Todd in my field as well ... which is probably why I have a JD, an MBA, a CPA, a CQE (Certified Quality Engineer), a CQA (Certified Quality Auditor), certification as an ISO-9000 auditor, etc.... We think too much alike for me to say anything more! (But how can we think so much alike and still have such a different personality profile? Guess we'll have to figure that out some other time.)
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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06-27-01, 09:33 PM (EST)
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33. "Participation" |
LAST EDITED ON 06-28-01 AT 00:04 AM (EST)GT, I hardly know what to say. Yes, Pepe and SurvivorChick and others of the "contestants" have actively been contributing to BlowsVivor in various ways, but they aren't actually the "contestants" in the show, there isn't even actually a "show." And yes, I have mentioned to some that I have some great material built around pepe, the Pepe himself did a lot to help me generate it, so I would like to see that character make it to ep 10; but if that doesn't happen so be it. If all the ideas I have, in fact, have been either obviated or otherwise made moot, or been used by another writer who had those ideas, and if I have to start from scratch, so be it! I have no particular outcome in mind. I agree that the Icecat character is, unfortunately, still something of a carricature, and the Rudyrules character needs fleshing out, but if those posters aren't interested in participating on that level same as Pepe and SChick have done then that's their business, maybe they prefer to maintain distance between themselves and their fictive variants. Go back to shakes original intent, it was to keep the boards from dying in the off-season. edited because I got rushed earlier. What I find frustrating, GT, is not that you have a different take on many things than do I, that is actually the sort of thing that I welcome. What I do find very frustrating is that you continue to refer to the actual posters and their fictional counterparts as if they are interchangeable, which if followed to its logical conclusion returns us to Dawg's howl. Let's not go there, please; let's keep in mind that these "characters" simply are nothing more than elements in a fiction.
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