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"HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
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Conferences The Mole Clues & Spoilers Forum (Protected)
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moliemolie 75 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 12:20 PM (EST)
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"HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
O.k. I was a stauch Hefomor or Dofomo until my brain started acting up and I came up with these thoughts. Please hear me out and then help if you can:

1. How could the Mole do a good job and yet be involved in a coalition this late in the game?

2. If Heather is the Mole and she got Bribs to suspect Dorothy and Dorothy is the Mole and she got Al to suspect Heather, then one of those guys should still be in the game since they would have probably voted straight ticket on one of the girls. If they got the guys to think Bill is the Mole, then obviously Bill is not the Mole since the guys are gone.

3. Basically, I want to know how the coalition works. It seems to me that Bill would be the Mole since he is the only guy left with those two girls who apparently used their good looks and charm to fool the guys and get them executed. I just want to know how of either of the girls could be the Mole without one of them knowing about the other. Why would the Mole 'help' someone stay in the game?

Please respond. I really want to believe one of the girls is the Mole but this coalition thing has thrown me way off.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 emt nowhereman 08-05-02 1
   RE: emt moliemolie 08-05-02 2
       RE: emt nowhereman 08-05-02 15
 RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... ejm92 08-05-02 3
   RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... moliemolie 08-05-02 4
       RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... kyngsladye 08-05-02 5
           RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... moliemolie 08-05-02 6
               RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... DIZWIZ2002 08-05-02 7
                   RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... LaybackSpinPatty 08-05-02 8
                       RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... moliemolie 08-05-02 9
                           RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... Jims02 08-05-02 10
                               RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... moliemolie 08-05-02 11
                               RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... LaybackSpinPatty 08-05-02 13
                               RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... GeorgiaBelle 08-05-02 14
                               RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... nowhereman 08-05-02 16
                                   RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... Jims02 08-05-02 17
                                   what.. 17 hours to go??? Geez.. hur... DaSaintFan 08-06-02 18
                                       RE: what.. 17 hours to go??? Geez..... Jims02 08-06-02 19
               RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DORO... kyngsladye 08-05-02 12

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nowhereman 131 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 12:45 PM (EST)
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1. "emt"
Good questions!

If Heather or Dorothy was the mole, why would they have created a coalition this late in the game and what did the coalition actually involve?

I think the impression was that it was to be a gals vs. guys strategy, assuming neither were the mole. The only two coalition activities that appeared to me were: (1) the obvious sharing of information, and, possibly, (2) the looking away of Dorothy during the "fingerprint-gathering" challenge (though some have said this was a Dorothy sabotage). The sharing of the information would supposedly make them stronger during the quizzes.

If one of the gals was the mole, maybe the producers noticed that the other was scoring significantly high on the quizzes and wanted to throw her off the track. That is pure speculation on my part though. More likely, the producers had the mole create a coalition with any of the remaining players, and it was serendipity that it happened to be the two gals. Why? Who would suspect the mole to do that?

But, if you recall, ONLY Heather, and not publicly!, said that the coalition took out the guys. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Sounded moleish to me, but I am biased towards Heather.

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moliemolie 75 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 01:06 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: emt"
Well that would explain it if we are taking Heather's word for it that a coalition exists. When Al and Bribs were asked if they were shocked to be taken out by the Heather/Dorothy coalition, they claimed they didn't know it existed. However, if Heather said a coalition exists between her and Dorothy and Dorothy has never said the same, then this leads me back to my original theory which is that Heather is the Mole. I think the producers would fabricate something like this to throw us off since we are supposed to be 'shocked' when the Mole is revealed. I can't imagine that anyone would be shocked if it turned out to be Bill. So anyway, that's for leading me back to the right path. I am feeling Hefomolish once again!

Gracias

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nowhereman 131 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 07:31 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: emt"
"Well that would explain it if we are taking Heather's word for it that a coalition exists..."

A clarification here: We are only taking Heather's word for the *effectiveness* of the coalition, not whether one existed or not. I think it was obvious there was one.

As a side note, and if you are an H'FOMO, Heather's "performance" about swearing on her bible IF SHE HAD IT WITH HER! (note she never did swear on it) and on her engagement ring may have also been planned in advanced, or was at least great improvisation. Dorothy, if I recall correctly, seemed hesitant about the idea of a coalition, or at least with Heather. If D was the mole, she may not have wanted to get into a coalition, but felt that backing out may have cast suspicion on herself. Either way, I thought it would be an excellent opportunity to manipulate the other.


(btw, no one got my lame joke about "emt"?)

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ejm92 2221 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 01:13 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
Well, ABC claimed the coalition would 'change the game', and it pretty much has. It knocked out Al and Bribs, and Bill is the only guy left. This 'puzzle' pretty much ties back within itself, though. I can clearly see in my mind that if Dorothy/Heather thought Bill was the Mole, they would NOT let the others think so. They would try to act moleish. BUT, if the Mole was either Heather or Dorothy, they would lean all of the suspicion on to one of the two. It's hard to tell, although in my eyes, all safe bets are on the fact that Billster is the Mole.
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moliemolie 75 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 01:56 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
Can we really trust anything ABC says? After all, the show is based on lies and deceit and ABC is more than willing to do their share to continue that trend. It's funny that they asked Al, Bribs and Darwin who they thought the Mole was and they all said something different. The Mole apparently has done a good job of casting suspicion on the other players. Since Bill hasn't really had an opportunity to cast suspicion on anyone else but has done a good job of making himself look suspicious, I actually doubt that he is the Mole. And if he is, shame on ABC. If they bring back Mole 3, they should have a disclaimer at the bottom of the screen revealing the identify of the Mole so we don't have to waste our time taping every show and playing the clues back in slow motion.
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kyngsladye 2921 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 02:03 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
" If they bring back Mole 3, they should have a disclaimer at the bottom of the screen revealing the identity of the Mole so we don't have to waste our time taping every show and playing the clues back in slow motion."

*gasp* But, then we would only need one episode because everyone would quit watching. *laughs*


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moliemolie 75 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 02:17 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
Exactly! It seems to me that we should all have stopped watching after whichever episode boldly proclaimed, "Bill is the Mole". What are we debating about? I'm saying all this to say that I hope those were red herrings and that ABC wouldn't be their own spoilers by telling us flat out the identity of the Mole. I guess we'll find out how smart they really are on Tuesday.
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DIZWIZ2002 33 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 02:42 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
But let's not forget, it wasn't exactly "boldly proclaimed" that Bill was the mole, it was a coded message in a telegram that ALL of the players had access to, but only one (that we know of) took seriously. That was Patrick, and he was quickly executed. Did he decode the message, or not? I'm guessing that MOST viewers aren't as obsessed as we are. I never would have decoded that message on my own, I read about it here. So I don't think that Bill's moleishness...assuming he's the mole, of course... has been shoved down our throats. WE are the ones who have been looking for the clues so deeply. DIZWIZ
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LaybackSpinPatty 27 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 03:41 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"

"WE are the ones who have been looking for the clues so deeply"

EXACTLY.
This has been discussed over and over again in all of the Bill is the Mole threads. The main argument against Bill is that he's too obvious. He is obvious to US, but is he that obvious to the average viewer? My friend doesn't tape every show, she just watches them every week, but she's convinced it's Dorothy. Who would you consider to be the average viewer?

Also, even if Bill WERE obviously the Mole to an average viewer, isn't this a good tactic to keep viewers watching? If you watch the Mole every week (but aren't obsessed with it) and you find one of the "obvious" clues pointing to Bill, wouldn't you be sure to tune in next week to see if it really is Bill? I certainly would. I think ABC learned a lesson from the original Mole and made the clues a bit easier to find, so viewers don't give up on the Mole.

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moliemolie 75 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 03:53 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
Well they still didn't succeed because there won't be a Mole 3. And what is the use in giving us all the clues and yet the players still remain clueless? I think the obvious clues pointing to Bill are way too obvious. If Bill turns out to be the Mole and there is a Mole 3, all we'll have to do is tape every show, look for the OBVIOUS clues, miss 4 of the episodes and still be right on point regarding the identity of the Mole. I am almost 100% that Bill is not the Mole. There is no way any of the formers players will be 'shocked' when the Mole is revealed, if the Mole is Bill. A lot of players are gone because they thought Bill was the Mole. I also find it interesting that he has won more money than Dorothy and Heather (and he still would have won more money than they did if he hadn't accepted the 100K). I don't think he did a very good job as the Mole if he is the Mole. Pointing to himself when he says he knows who the Mole is also too obvious. I think he has played the game well and the Mole has sent several messages pointing to Bill. The Mole doesn't want to reveal their identity, not even to us. However, they are more than happy to make others think someone else is the Mole. Bill has made himself look Molish during the entire game. Therefore, he can't be the Mole.
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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 04:08 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
(my Bill-bashing post of the week)

I disagree and agree at the same time.

Part of Mole 2 is the fact that the viewers can play along with the players. You don't get this kind of novelty on other Reality TV. Revealing the Mole in Episode 1 would be rather silly. They'd take the fun out of the show. It would just be Survivor, except they're not voting each other off.

In other words, you don't want to take the mystery and suspense out of a Reality Show.

As for the Bill clues, I find them more BLATENT than obvious. Look at each one.

1. The Telegram: All it would take is ONE person to decode it to spoil it for hundreds of people. So, the case is closed in most people's minds.

2. Admiral: Not as blatent, but still screams Bill is the mole. Reasoning? They MUST have planted it!

3. Bill Is The Mole: Also in opening credits, but this one is even more blatent than the last.

4. The Fact That The Final 3 Are A Coalition And The Mole: That's how it ended last year. The viewers should figure it out by now.

5. Heather's Confessional: "First we wanted to get rid of Bribs... Then Al... And here we are." Doesn't this also scream "Bill is the mole"???

My point is this. The viewing audience has plenty of chances to come to the conclusion that Bill is the mole. If they even caught JUST ONE of these clues, they could come to this conclusion. If they missed #1-3, #4 and #5 pretty much give it away!!!

Maybe I'm giving the viewers too much credit, but look at our poll. Bill's got over 1000 votes!!!

Well, we'll see tomorrow! I hope it's not Bill, or ABC really blew this one...
-----------------------------------
Quotes of the week:
1. "Al, do you think you could move just a little?"-Myra
2. "Ewww... Patrick, no... I don't want to see that."-Heather
3. "I really hope Darwin doesn't realize I have a coalition with Dorothy, or... that could be bad."-Lisa
4. "Gas station attendants... They no NOTHING about flat tires... Let's ask these tourists!"-Darwin
5. "I swear, Rob, if this freaks me out I'm gonna punch you."-Anderson
6. "Those hills are a b!tch."-Anderson
7. "Um, thanks guys for not liking me!" (waves the $ at them)-Elavia
8. "They do look like piercing blue eyes, Heather, but I don't get it. He's totally making out with (that girl)."- Bribs
9. "I was a little surprised when Anderson came into my room in a suit. He usually just comes into my room in his pajamas, just his bottoms usually."-Darwin
10. "Man, I'm screwed."-Dorothy
11. (creepily) "Tiny bubbles... In my wine... Makes me happy."-Anderson

12. "I'll tell ya... I don't understand a thing, but I enjoy riding!!! " -Bill

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moliemolie 75 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 04:15 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
I'm glad you see my point. It would really suck if Bill were the Mole. The only thing fishy about Heather's comment though is that she is the only one that has acknowledged there is an alliance. I wonder if the alliance really exists? And like you said, if last 2 people are in an alliance then we already know the Mole must be Bill. I hope we are truly shocked though. The only way we will be shocked is if Heather is lying (a strong possibility) and no 'true' alliance actually exists. That's the kind of twist we need. BILL IS THE MOLE is not a twist, it's downright dumb!

Laters

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LaybackSpinPatty 27 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 06:10 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
My point was that the average viewing audience would not notice the so-called "blatant" clues that require you to decode numerical messages, or pause your VCR to the exact spot in the opening credits where it says "Bill is the Mole". Also, how many of these hidden clues would we (posters on message boards) have found these "blatant" clues all on their own? Maybe I'm just stupid, but I would NEVER have paused my VCR on those opening credits unless I got the idea from someone on the forums. I know the polls are overwhelmingly in favor of Bill being the Mole, but maybe we've just done a good job finding all the clues.

(I am just saying these things in defense of the average viewer, dont get me wrong, I would LOVE to see someone else as the Mole. I just think its Bill. If I'm wrong, and its someone else, you have my full permission to mock me.)

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GeorgiaBelle 2136 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 07:25 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
>Quotes of the week:
>1. "Al, do you think
>you could move just a
>little?"-Myra
>2. "Ewww... Patrick, no... I don't
>want to see that."-Heather
>3. "I really hope Darwin doesn't
>realize I have a coalition
>with Dorothy, or... that could
>be bad."-Lisa
>4. "Gas station attendants... They no
>NOTHING about flat tires... Let's
>ask these tourists!"-Darwin
>5. "I swear, Rob, if this
>freaks me out I'm gonna
>punch you."-Anderson
>6. "Those hills are a b!tch."-Anderson
>
>7. "Um, thanks guys for not
>liking me!" (waves the $
>at them)-Elavia
>8. "They do look like piercing
>blue eyes, Heather, but I
>don't get it. He's
>totally making out with (that
>girl)."- Bribs
>9. "I was a little surprised
>when Anderson came into my
>room in a suit.
>He usually just comes into
>my room in his pajamas,
>just his bottoms usually."-Darwin
>10. "Man, I'm screwed."-Dorothy
>11. (creepily) "Tiny bubbles... In my
>wine... Makes me happy."-Anderson

>
>12. "I'll tell ya... I don't
>understand a thing, but I
>enjoy riding!!! " -Bill


Love your quotes of the week. As far as who is the Mole, I just have no idea. Hope it is Heather. Why? I don't know. They all have acted like the Mole, which is a good thing for them. If you know that you are not the mole and act like one, then others will vote for you which would result in their execution. However that can backfire on you. So, I do not know who the mole is, I just enjoy the show.


I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

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nowhereman 131 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 07:48 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
JIMS, I couldn't figure out whether you are saying here that the mole is DEFINITELY Bill or that it's still questionable. But, I will assume the former, and reply since I'm very bored.

>1. The Telegram: All it would take is ONE person to decode
>it to spoil it for hundreds of people. So, the case is closed
>in most people's minds.

Closed as in it is DEFINITELY Bill? Personally, I always thought it was a red herring. Now, if Patrick was in the final three, I would believe it.

>2. Admiral: Not as blatent, but still screams Bill is the >mole. Reasoning? They MUST have planted it!

I never taped the episodes, so I can't definitely say there weren't clues similar to this for others. Can you say there aren't?

>3. Bill Is The Mole: Also in opening credits, but this one
>is even more blatent than the last.

Same answer as for #2.

>4. The Fact That The Final 3 Are A Coalition And The Mole:
>That's how it ended last year. The viewers should figure it
>out by now.

Why should this be obvious? It could easily be a red herring. It would also make for a nice TWIST.

>5. Heather's Confessional: "First we wanted to get rid of
>Bribs... Then Al... And here we are." Doesn't this also
>scream "Bill is the mole"???

I must be deaf, 'cause I ain't hearing this. And I don't think I'm in denial either.

As a final note, I think we probably are going to find out that the "real" clues were probably lame and that everyone here was just too analytical for our own good.


(note, please read all of this with an amusing, light tone, and was just written to pass the time and wondering if crow tastes like chicken.)

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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08-05-02, 07:54 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
Sorry... I see where the post may have become confusing...

I am 50/50 split right now between Bill and Dorothy.

I've never wanted to believe Bill is the mole. I think all three contestants COULD be the mole. Ask any other poster. I've been one of the forerunners of the Anti-Billfomo group. Probably because I want tomorrow to hold a SURPRISE.

My dream finale is that Heather is the mole, but I digress.

The post really means to say that if you got ANY of the strong points #1-5, you could come to conclusion that Bill is the mole. Reasons 4 and 5 are most viewer-based, and are most likely to be picked up on.

I hope that clarifies well.
-----------------------------------
Quotes of the week:
1. "Al, do you think you could move just a little?"-Myra
2. "Ewww... Patrick, no... I don't want to see that."-Heather
3. "I really hope Darwin doesn't realize I have a coalition with Dorothy, or... that could be bad."-Lisa
4. "Gas station attendants... They no NOTHING about flat tires... Let's ask these tourists!"-Darwin
5. "I swear, Rob, if this freaks me out I'm gonna punch you."-Anderson
6. "Those hills are a b!tch."-Anderson
7. "Um, thanks guys for not liking me!" (waves the $ at them)-Elavia
8. "They do look like piercing blue eyes, Heather, but I don't get it. He's totally making out with (that girl)."- Bribs
9. "I was a little surprised when Anderson came into my room in a suit. He usually just comes into my room in his pajamas, just his bottoms usually."-Darwin
10. "Man, I'm screwed."-Dorothy
11. (creepily) "Tiny bubbles... In my wine... Makes me happy."-Anderson

12. "I'll tell ya... I don't understand a thing, but I enjoy riding!!! " -Bill

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DaSaintFan 47 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-02, 01:29 AM (EST)
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18. "what.. 17 hours to go??? Geez.. hurry up!"

>>1. The Telegram: All it would take is ONE person to decode
>>it to spoil it for hundreds of people. So, the case is closed
>>in most people's minds.
>
>Closed as in it is DEFINITELY
>Bill? Personally, I always thought
>it was a red herring.
>Now, if Patrick was in
>the final three, I would
>believe it.

nowhere, maybe, (and again, this is just hypothesis).. Patrick didn't get around to decoding it in time (if there's actually a code in there)? All we know is that he "suspected" something out of the telegram. Doesn't say he figured it out.

>
>>2. Admiral: Not as blatent, but still screams Bill is the >mole. Reasoning? They MUST have planted it!
>
>I never taped the episodes, so
>I can't definitely say there
>weren't clues similar to this
>for others. Can you say
>there aren't?
>
>>3. Bill Is The Mole: Also in opening credits, but this one
>>is even more blatent than the last.
>
>Same answer as for #2.
>
>>4. The Fact That The Final 3 Are A Coalition And The Mole:
>>That's how it ended last year. The viewers should figure it
>>out by now.
>
>Why should this be obvious? It
>could easily be a red
>herring. It would also make
>for a nice TWIST.

However, there's a difference... Last year we never saw the Jim/Steve coalition. For _some_ reason, I just keep thinking there's a coalition in here we're not seeing (if Bill's not the mole, he's teamed up {IMO} with Dot, since she doesn't trust him whatsoever {again, IMO})

>
>>5. Heather's Confessional: "First we wanted to get rid of
>>Bribs... Then Al... And here we are." Doesn't this also
>>scream "Bill is the mole"???
>
>I must be deaf, 'cause I
>ain't hearing this. And
>I don't think I'm in
>denial either.

I didn't hear this one either... I vaguely remember her saying something about Bribs being gone, but I don't remember her saying the Dot/Heather team did it (and no, I don't tape the shows... I want the DVD version *G*).

>
>As a final note, I think
>we probably are going to
>find out that the "real"
>clues were probably lame and
>that everyone here was just
>too analytical for our own
>good.

I just wanna know what the 6501 clue is (if there is one there)!! It's been gnawing on me for an eternity!!!! And if it's not, I take back everything I said about William the Conqueror being a clue.. {of course, it'll be a little late, but I'll take it back anyway! *G*)

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

08-06-02, 07:34 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: what.. 17 hours to go??? Geez.. hurry up!"
Heather said something like this in a confessional the other night.

"Dorothy I and formed a coalition... We wanted to get rid of Bribs and he's gone... Then Al... And now here we are."

She makes no reference to wanting to get rid of Bill. If this was their strategy, they have definitely shown the viewers their hand.

By the way, we did find out about Jim and Steve's coalition last year. Toward the end, I think. But we did know about it, since last year the team got fined for Kathryn and Jim being in Steve's room at night.
-----------------------------------
Quotes of the week:
1. "Al, do you think you could move just a little?"-Myra
2. "Ewww... Patrick, no... I don't want to see that."-Heather
3. "I really hope Darwin doesn't realize I have a coalition with Dorothy, or... that could be bad."-Lisa
4. "Gas station attendants... They no NOTHING about flat tires... Let's ask these tourists!"-Darwin
5. "I swear, Rob, if this freaks me out I'm gonna punch you."-Anderson
6. "Those hills are a b!tch."-Anderson
7. "Um, thanks guys for not liking me!" (waves the $ at them)-Elavia
8. "They do look like piercing blue eyes, Heather, but I don't get it. He's totally making out with (that girl)."- Bribs
9. "I was a little surprised when Anderson came into my room in a suit. He usually just comes into my room in his pajamas, just his bottoms usually."-Darwin
10. "Man, I'm screwed."-Dorothy
11. (creepily) "Tiny bubbles... In my wine... Makes me happy."-Anderson

12. "I'll tell ya... I don't understand a thing, but I enjoy riding!!! " -Bill

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kyngsladye 2921 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"

08-05-02, 04:20 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: HOW COULD IT BE HEATHER OR DOROTHY? HELP!!!"
"Exactly! It seems to me that we should all have stopped watching after whichever episode boldly proclaimed, "Bill is the Mole". What are we debating about?"

Too many people like to take the road less traveled (like me Dorothy FOMO). I will be clinging to that thought until the episode reveals the mole no matter how many BILL clues I see. *laughs*


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