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"TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-05, 08:59 PM (EST)
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"TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I was reading TV guide's insider section and there's an interview with Ray about TAR. Dear God, just when I think that Ray couldn't have been a bigger douchebag than he was, he goes and surprises me. According to the interview, not only was the bus scheme all Ray's idea, but he had the idea of carrying it further and stranding all the other teams, except Rob and Amber and Ray and Deana, at a rest stop. Here's the quote


We were going to hijack the bus in the middle of nowhere," reveals Ray, who adds that he cooked up both this rotten idea and the door trick and then enlisted Rob's help. During the long ride to Arequipa, the bus made rest stops along the way. At one of these stops, Ray and Deana and Rob and Amber planned to bribe the driver to leave before the other teams got back on the bus.

"We were going to strand those teams in the middle of a remote mountain area with no other bus coming through for 24 hours," says Ray. "But by the time we were able to bribe the driver, some of the teams were already back on the bus and we couldn't do it. Had we pulled it off, it would have been a classic moment. Of course, then I wouldn't have as many people coming to my wedding."

Had he been able to pull off this plan, it may have been technically within the rules of the game, but it would have put all the other teams at a 24 hour plus disadvantage, which not only puts everyone else at a crippling disadvantage, but also throws off the whole filming and crew schedule. Would this have been allowed, or do you think R&D and R&A would have been hit with a penalty for interfering? I'm also curious to hear other people's thoughts on this move - genius and fair game, or totally scummy and unfair? If the 2 teams had pulled it off successfully, would it have changed your minds on either/both of these teams?

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... PokerBear 04-07-05 1
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... ARnutz 04-07-05 3
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 9
           RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... ARnutz 04-08-05 17
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Dakota 04-07-05 4
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 8
 RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... FFantasyFX 04-07-05 2
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... kvasir79 04-08-05 6
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 12
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 10
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... MTommy 04-08-05 31
 RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... zipperhead 04-08-05 5
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... kvasir79 04-08-05 7
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 11
 RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Jealousy 04-08-05 13
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 18
 RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... seahorse 04-08-05 14
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 19
 RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... nailbone 04-08-05 15
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... LibraRising 04-08-05 16
       Just one question Surveysez 04-08-05 20
           RE: Just one question LibraRising 04-08-05 22
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 23
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... nailbone 04-08-05 25
   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... TerriBlue 04-08-05 21
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Spidey 04-08-05 24
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... nailbone 04-08-05 26
           RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Spidey 04-08-05 27
       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Drive My Car 04-08-05 28
           RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Spidey 04-08-05 29
               RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Drive My Car 04-08-05 30
                   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Spidey 04-09-05 35
                       RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Drive My Car 04-09-05 36
           RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... GameOver3 04-08-05 32
               RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... anotherkim 04-09-05 33
                   RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray'... Drive My Car 04-09-05 34

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PokerBear 24 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-05, 09:19 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I never like these two teams anyways. You don't have to be mean and evil to run a race.
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ARnutz 13882 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-05, 10:31 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Agree. These two teams are no longer pond scum (in my eyes), they are now the sludge that lives beneath the pond scum which the pond scum feeds off of.



'nutz: Proud member of the inoffensive OT Triumvirate... and Shroomhater! - shroom go boom!

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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:49 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
LOL! I like that - have to remember it
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ARnutz 13882 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:02 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
*snort*

I heard it in a movie or something once. It is especially fitting for Ray, IMO. He's a slimy jerk.


'nutz: Proud member of the inoffensive OT Triumvirate... and Shroomhater! - shroom go boom!

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Dakota 5724 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-05, 10:42 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I agree PokerBear.
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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:48 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 02:48 AM (EST)

I'd agree - can't stand either one of them. Wonder if the Amazing production crew would have let them get away with it though?

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FFantasyFX 1028 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-05, 10:19 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
For the first time in a month or two, my opinion of Ray ticked up a notch. I would have loved to have seen him pull this off. TAR producers would have had an aneurysm. Every season, they put the game more and more on rails (i.e. try to put everyone on a highly controlled race path), and every season I want to see some team come up with a brilliant move that obliterates the producer's controlled environment.

By the way, after this season, I'm pretty sure TAR is going to put a no bribe clause into the rulebook. It makes for good television when a team uses it against other teams, but I don't think TAR is going to take it too kindly when they see bribery can be used to disrupt their course design.

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kvasir79 48 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 00:32 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
i agree, there's been too many grace factor in this race, you can miss the train and still make it to the finish line within seconds of the other teams. The producers make sure there are frequent transporation and plenty of time for the teams to make it.

It's an excellent scenario, though the teams separated by 24 hours or more, either by bribing or by naturally missing a flight, train or something. I would say if this happens, the pit stop will still go on as plan for the first group that arrives such that everyone still gets to stay for 12 hours before leaving. I think that would make the game much more interesting to watch. Logistically it would be very difficult.

i think bribing is ok, as long as it doesn't interfere with the other teams. Like bribing the driver to take a short cut, get a guide, etc.

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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 03:01 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
To kvasir79: the cynical side of me thinks that the logistical nightmare would probably be so bad that the production would try to even the playing field by either socking the offending teams with a penalty or trying to help out the stranded teams. They have a finite number of cameramen and crew and with 4/5 of the team gone, they have to replan the entire course, extend the Roablock/Detour sites and extend the race by a day. Not bloody likely
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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:52 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Well, it would have shaken things up, that's for sure. I really do wonder if despite the no interference rule, if the Editors don't keep a tighter rein over the bunchings in order to keep the production moving smoothly. Take Lori and Bolo's miracle train, for example. I'm sure that one of the camera crew would have radioed for help and pleaded with someone to get them from the crowd of pi$$ed off, cranky racers
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MTommy 80 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 06:03 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Why do people insist on a producer induced train? I really really really don't understand that argument. Trains are a major means of transportation in Eastern Europe. In addition there are “night trains” that make frequent stops "at night". I took a train from Krakow to Budapest and we stopped frequently all the way along; we even got our passports stamped for entry and exit through Slovakia. I'm not even saying 100% that this was one of those trains (though I do think that it is the most likely scenario), we've seen in the past (season 1 or 2?) that a freight ship is still a "ship" as defined by the rules.

Also in the context of this thread, why would the producers care if 1 team falls behind? The one team gets eliminated, So What! Everyone else who is still in the game still stays on the same leg (i.e. no production nightmare). I can’t say enough how much I disagree that Bolo’s train was supplied by the producers. Wouldn’t it cost more to run a train than to just eliminate 1 team? Logically, it’s illogical to believe that the train was provided. This is just a conspiracy theory.

More on topic, they would have had to offer that driver some serious cash because that stunt would likely cost him his job. Seriously, leaving 10 of the whiniest bitchiest people (American’s, of which I am one) at some road stop in the middle of the night! Race or No Race I can not imagine that the driver would be gainfully employed for very long after that stunt.

However, I wish it would have gone down like that because it would have been interesting to see the results. Chaos

.02


TerriBlue, I'm not sure you and I can really agree on anything.

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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 00:09 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
If those two teams would have pulled it off my opinion of them would not have gotten worse, but my opinion of the producers definitely would have dropped. This is supposed to be a competition between teams of people doing similar tasks as quickly as they can so that the team that does the best ends up the winner. If they would have allowed this sort of nonsense, the producers would have undercut this entire premise. It's bad enough that the rules actually allow people to sit out on a task and still have a reasonable chance of moving on.

Keep them on a level playing field if you really want to see who the best competitor is.

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kvasir79 48 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 00:44 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
true.. but they wouldn't have created penalty if they didn't anticipate teams to sit out. They could just say the teams MUST complete the task, and would face elimination if they don't.

Remember Debbie and Bianca still got eliminated despite having completed the task. But because they were so far behind the other teams' penalty didn't matter. If D/B didn't get so lost like they did they would've made it. In that case, the penalty would've worked against the quitters.

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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:56 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I wonder if that's why they have the Amazing bunchings - in order to eliminate huge gaps like that. I don't think even the best teams are capable of narrowing a 24 hour gap. I'm willign to bet that if R&A and R&D had pulled this off, the producers either would have socked them with penalties or sent over a bus for the remaining racers. Otherwise they have those neatly arranged tasks and no one to do them
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Jealousy 109 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 09:23 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
If they really did pull this off, I wonder if the other teams could catch a cab instead (if they could pay for one) or hitchhike, because of the turn of events.
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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:26 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I think that would depend on whether or not there were any phones at the rest stop - otherwise, howand who do they call? I wonder if in those circumstances if the cameramen would interfere and radio for help
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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 10:17 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I would have loved to see it happen. It would have made for great tv. I am not saying it would be fair, however.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:27 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
It would have been interesting, but I'm rather glad it didn't happen. Ray was enough of a jerk without it
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 11:40 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Scummy and unfair? Give me a break! This is a race, and if it's within the rules, it's a fair move.

Genius? Probably not, because (and I would tell Rob this) It's not smart to piss off your competition to the extent that this would. Eventually, it could come back to bite you, if you were ever the one that needed help.

But beneath pond scum? Nah.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

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LibraRising 2847 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 12:10 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I wonder if Ray is trying to make himself sound smarter than he actually is. He strikes me as the type who wants to be Rob, but lacks the cleverness and charm to pull it off. Kinda like Jonathan -- he wanted to be this regarded as this genius supervillain, but he just came off as an obnoxious jerk with mediocre to bad gameplay.

Would the payoff have worked? I mean, presumably these other people had already paid full fare for the trip and there could have been consequences for the bus driver if he took cash to strand paying passengers. I would think if Ray were as close to getting it done as he said, we would have seen it in the editing or at least the insider clips.

That being said -- I think it would be a brilliant strategy, if you had the money, to pay off another team's cab driver at one of those remote roadblocks or detours (the type where cabs aren't readily available) to strand them there. Not nice, but brilliant.


Poor Ray. He thinks these people will come to his wedding anyway?

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Surveysez 2793 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:33 PM (EST)
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20. "Just one question"
When is a bribe not a bribe. I pay the hostess at the local restaurant to get a better seat than what I was assigned. I call it a tip for services rendered. Aren't we getting a little hung up on the word bribe? (The other thread about Rob's illegal acts might be the more appropriate place to put this, however, I can't bring myself to encourage the level of discussion happening in there.)



I have a perfect body, however, it's in my trunk and beginning to smell.

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LibraRising 2847 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:48 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Just one question"
From dictionary.com:

A bribe is:
Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
Something serving to influence or persuade.

I wouldn't call a bus driver or a waitress a "position of trust" necessarily, so that's why I avoided the word "bribe" in the post above. It's similar to the "decimate" discussion in the Survivor forums. People use words out of their strict definitions.


I, too, am staying out of the other thread. A little too sublime for me.

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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:58 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
That's the difference between Rob and Ray - Rob has delusions of grandeur; Ray had delusions of mediocrity

Your point about whether or not the bus driver would have stranded the customers reminds me of how Kendra tried to bribe the United staff into giving Kris and Jon incorrect information and the ticket counter staff refused, probably because they knew their jobs were toast if they agreed

What I'm wondering after reading the responses is if the Amazing production staff would laugh and cheer these types of tactics, or have a hissy fit because it throws their production into chaos, and then penalize the offending teams

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 03:22 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Would the payoff have worked?

Probably not. Not for long anyway, as bunching would eventually rear it's ugly head and the other teams would catch up, and promptly lynch Ray. Not that that's a bad thing.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

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TerriBlue 147 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 02:42 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
The question then becomes again, where is the line drawn? Generally, most of the tricks that have been pulled are petty little things that cost maybe 15 minutes, or an hour at worst. It seems like when the interference can cost a team a great deal of time, the producers swoop in with penalties, whether it's accidental or not. Take for example Freddy taking the extra clue and Don and MJ accidentally taking someone else's car. Are you allowed to cancel someone's wake-up call, or bribe the hotel manager to let you come in and switch their bags to another room? Can you penny them into their hotel rooms? Can you pay off a big burly guy on the train to go over and deliberately sexually harrass some of the female team members? Can you go over to the police and make a false report that one of the team members swiped your wallet? All of these are technically legal and within the rules, but are they fair moves?

Another possibility that my boyfriend brought up is that if you really dislike another team and you're in a footrace with them and you know you're not going to beat them, can you tackle them and restrain them while another team gets there first? The team that restrained them would probably be penalized or disqualified, but the restrained team would still lose. This came up while discussing Lynn and Alex's Romber hate and if they fell behind, if they'd be willing to go down just to bring Romber with them. L&A could easily make an agreement with the other final 3 team that whichever of them that's behind will block Romber and then both teams will split the million

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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 03:20 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
The reasons there were the penalties you spoke of is because one of the teams took an extra clue and one took the wrong car (both of which are probably laid out as race rules).

I think the line is you can do anything you want so long as it doesn't violate a TAR rule or do something illegal.

Are you allowed to cancel someone's wake-up call, or bribe the hotel manager to let you come in and switch their bags to another room? Can you penny them into their hotel rooms? Can you pay off a big burly guy on the train to go over and deliberately sexually harrass some of the female team members? Can you go over to the police and make a false report that one of the team members swiped your wallet? All of these are technically legal and within the rules, but are they fair moves?

I can't imagine ANY of these examples being within the rules, with the possible excpetion of canceling the wake-up call.

Bribing a hotel manager to move someone's bags is interfering with personal property. Penny-ing someone into their room is false imprisonment. Paying off a burly guy to harass someone is also illegal, as is making a false police report.



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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 03:25 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
can you tackle them and restrain them while another team gets there first?

If they can make it look accidental, like Lynn pushing Amber at the start, they might get away with it. But if it appears intentional, the producers would have to do something about it, I imagine.


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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 03:28 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Cuz that would be, like, a battery. Illegal and all that.

Didn't this discussion come up re Jobn & Vic last season that physically messing with someone on the race (apparently partner not included) would mean automatic DQ.



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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 04:06 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
I'm sure teams conspiring to split the money is against the rules.
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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-05, 04:15 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 04:15 PM (EST)

I believe you're right.


How long until someone brings up the "fact" that Rob & Amber conspired to split the ASS money?

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04-08-05, 04:19 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Just now, I think you did. *giggle*

Oh wait! You mean for real???
Anyone got Shakes on speed dial?

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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-09-05, 02:14 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Hey Buggy, look down.

Bwahahahahahahaha.


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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-09-05, 02:24 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
We amaze me!

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GameOver3 51 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

04-08-05, 06:56 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
>I'm sure teams conspiring to split
>the money is against the
>rules.

That was a rule on Survivor, but that was broken when Romber were clearly conspiring to share the cash, when Rob mentioned he might be spending Amber's money at the end.

They broke the rules before, they obviously don't care to follow the rules or laws. If they wanted to enforce their rules and punish people for breaking the law, Romber wouldn't be anywhere past leg 2 because they bribed a bus driver and bribed security guards.

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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-09-05, 02:06 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
That was a rule on Survivor, but that was broken when Romber were clearly conspiring to share the cash, when Rob mentioned he might be spending Amber's money at the end.

##### was an entirely different game. All the players came in with schemes and plans cooked up prior to the game. Since some of them came in with pre-conceived alliances, I hardly think a fuss over Rob and Amber splitting the money in the end was whine-worthy. Not to mention, since they got married, there wasn't much way to stop them.

hey wanted to enforce their rules and punish people for breaking the law, Romber wouldn't be anywhere past leg 2 because they bribed a bus driver and bribed security guards.

In what country is it illegal to bribe a bus driver to close a door or to pay a security guard to keep quiet? None that I'm familiar with. It's also not part of the rules of TAR or else scads of teams would have been eliminated before as they BRIBED their taxi drivers to drive faster or people to get them to a location more quickly.


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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-09-05, 10:51 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Drive%20My%20Car Click to send private message to Drive%20My%20Car Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
34. "RE: TV guide interview on 1 of Ray's botched plans - fair or unfair? "
Bouncing and logic do not mix.

Just saying

Shakes explained the money thing and the legalities really well back during All Stars, but I can't find the post.


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